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Literally every one of your students can update a w a WordPress site.
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The issue is what happens if something breaks?
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What happens if it jacks up the layout?
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What happens if the site goes down?
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All of those things.
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So that's what we offer is the peace of mind that we will spend up to an hour troubleshooting and fixing if something goes wrong.
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So see how that's different than selling plugin updates?
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And you can do the same for your clients.
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You can pass that on to them.
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They don't care what a plugin is, they don't even understand what a plugin is.
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We're going through all these analogies trying to teach them it's like updating apps on your phone.
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Guess what?
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Nobody wants to update the apps on their phone.
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These words mean different things to us than they do to non-technical business owners.
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Welcome to the web design business podcast with your host, Josh Hall, helping you build a web design business that gives you freedom and a lifestyle you love.
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Welcome, friend, into episode 448.
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In this one, we are going to have a fun conversation with my good friend Stephanie Hudson of Focus WP on maintenance plans, but more specifically AI and maintenance plans and how AI has affected and is currently affecting, or whether it's not affecting at all, how you are supporting clients with support, maintenance, hosting plans, etc.
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And what's kind of funny is I'm in the midst of releasing my new maintenance plan course inside of Web Designer Pro.
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We have a live cohort that's running for the course as all the lessons are dropping.
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And we're talking with folks who obviously are building recurring revenue with maintenance plans.
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But I know there is a segment of the population of web designers out there who just do not want to handle any recurring work from clients.
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They do not want to do support.
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They do not want to build that much recurring revenue or have the responsibility of taking care of the sites that they have live.
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Again, I don't understand it.
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I think it's pretty easy money.
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But if that is the case, do me a favor and do not just bail on your clients.
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Don't just build a website and go, okay, peace out.
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See you later.
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Good luck with everything, especially if you're using WordPress, then there's a chance that it's going to get hacked if you're not updating.
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At the very least, check out focuswp.co.
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You actually go to joshhall.co slash focus, which will take you to a special link to white label your maintenance plan services.
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You can, yes, you can still make money with support plans and not actually do the support plans.
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You can hire Steph's team at focuswp, joshhall.co slash focus, and have them do all the work for you and have a commission to whatever price point you want.
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You can literally charge whatever you'd like to make and have them do all of the support and work for you if for some reason you don't want to handle itself and if you don't want as much recurring revenue that I'm showing off and teaching inside of my new maintenance plan course, which is launching now as we speak for the cohort that's live.
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Special details on that.
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If you did not get a chance to join our cohort when we open it up, uh there is a last-minute offer for you if you go to webdesignerpro.com slash cohort that you can still jump into and join our live calls if you're catching this at the time of its release.
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Now, without further ado, all those links will be below.
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But here is my fourth conversation with Stephanie on the podcast.
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So okay.
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Don't you miss the old day stuff or OGs in this space?
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And here we are 2026.
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Sometimes I miss the the simplicity of 2016 online websites.
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You know what though?
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It didn't feel that simple then either.
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It I'm a I'm a geek.
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I kind of I'm I think right now I am like, how lucky are we?
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Like, how cool is it that we get to live in the future right now?
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Like I just love it.
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It is cool, and I appreciate that.
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I'm just saying it things feel very overwhelming and noisy right now.
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And I kind of feel like it's a bit of a time to go to the basics.
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And I think this is across all areas of life, but I just feel like, yeah, like I'm seeing more and more people get off of social or take breaks.
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I myself am like, yeah, I'm like, I'm taking in too much from too many sources right now.
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I feel like in some cases, it is a lot, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And what you know, when
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it comes to maintenance and hosting and security, I know we'll talk about security here.
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I think interestingly enough, what I'm seeing with maintenance plans is like what worked a decade ago is still what works today, by and large, especially at scale.
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However, things have gotten more complex with the introduction of vibe coding, different builders, different platforms, and security and malware.
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AI malware.
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Hack galore going on now across every platform.
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I mean, the time we're we're recording this.
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I know this episode's gonna come out in a couple weeks.
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We're recording this on October 19th.
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The day that one of the most reputable backup plugins just got breached, which is Updraft Plus.
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Don't mean to call them out publicly, but it is what it is.
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Like there are just breaches going on left and right.
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So like security is way more important now.
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Well, it's not more important, it's just more difficult.
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It it's always been important, and but it's been it's been easier to plug the holes in the past.
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Now it's like the the good the good guys with AI can't keep up with the bad guys with AI, if that makes sense.
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And that's why I feel like my gut feeling of it being more important is just that fact of like back in the day, like when my when my site got hacked while we were on our honeymoon, I just hired security, we got it removed, and it was fine.
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That had no breaches or issues after that.
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But now I feel like there's a lot more steps to take.
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Um well, if you can clean it, you can clean it.
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Uh you know, but here's something that is I mean, security, absolute rock solid, right?
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Known entity, trusted.
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I have had multiple instance instances of malware on some of our customer sites that got infected, and I would run it through security and it would not find it.
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I ran it through, uh I forget what the other one was, another reputable one.
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I ran it through like these big providers and they they couldn't find it.
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This is what's scares me that the ones that you trust and you just have in your back pocket that like I'm gonna do what I can, but if it all hits the fan, I can just pay the 99 bucks of security and they'll fix it, right?
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Blog Vault, I had Blog Vault and I forget who uh I get all mixed up because there's so many different uh tools right now, but some one found something and then the other ones didn't, and I I actually did some manual removal, but then I had to have use AI to clean the whole rest.
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And we have since added on a whole nother partnership.
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I don't know what you when you want to dive into it, but uh with AI kind of stuff or to pre uh preventative.
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Okay, okay.
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We can talk about that.
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Is it uh Tom when we watch your website?
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Oh, is it really awesome?
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Because he just came in uh Web Designer Pro a couple months ago and did uh a training after helping a couple members, and he's awesome.
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He and that is kind of like it.
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Love that dude.
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Yeah, so Focus partnered with him, and so we offer a service we're calling malware shield.
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And basically, I'm sure he explained it all very thoroughly, but he connects at the server level.
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So we set up that connection, and then it monitors in real time, and then if there is any infection whatsoever, it squashes it immediately.
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So there is no like, hey, you're infected.
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It's just like something happens and it's already gone.
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So it's basically just within seconds, it's automatically remediated, which is nice because that's not just a scan, you know, it's like it's an active thing that kicks it out.
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So um yeah, I love having that as an option.
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But of course, you know, we've got the checklist of all the other things that matter too, right?
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Well, real quick, yeah, Tom was recommended to me by a member and in our in Web Designer Pro who had a huge breach and they had a plan at scale, so it was a big deal.
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And yeah, he just came through with like flying colors, and that's why we had him in to do a training more recently.
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So I'd love to hear that you've partnered up with him.
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I think you did mention that you knew him.
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I didn't realize you guys were really looking at this together, which is beautiful.
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Like that, you know, for anyone who is doing a maintenance plan at scale, like to have a security partner or even a referral partner if they're not like white labeling on your team is is huge if you are somebody who you know doesn't enjoy getting in the DNS and the files like I do, you know.
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So like absolutely that's just a really good frame to have to set this up, which is like you I think nowadays, just like 10 years ago, I framed my
maintenance plan as a security plan.
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I do think nowadays like it is so important.
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So what what else is different from is anything else different from 10 years ago to today with maintenance plans?
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Yeah, we've got AI now.
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So I know you're a big WP umbrella fan, me too.
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Um I've used all of them, I think.
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There's Manage WP, Blog Vault, um, main WP, Infinite, WP Umbrella, Infinite.
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There's a there's a lot of them.
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I've used I don't I haven't used Infinite, and there's a couple other that are a little bit like lesser known in the circles we run in.
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But um the I I'm currently with WP Umbrella, and what I'm loving is two things.
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One is the MCP access, and the second thing is the responsiveness of that team.
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It's phenomenal.
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I I so I now have uh agents set up to handle updates and testing, which it used to be I one of our selling points was real human eyeballs on your site after updates.
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And that was better because the alternative was just an automated thing.
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Now, because there is intelligence, even if it's artificial, behind it, it literally goes and checks and makes sure the forms are sending and checks the e-commerce stuff and finds things that I wouldn't even think to ask for, and it can check so many pa like it was just not cost effective.
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It was in fact cost prohibitive to have someone go and check every single page or especially on bigger sites.
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So to be able to have these tools that can go and literally find things and immediately if something comes up, they could just initiate rollback to the um last table backup.
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But that really doesn't even happen all that often because of like using safe updates and things like that with um with WP Umbrella.
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So can we get two?
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Go ahead.
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Well, just real quick, Steph, how did you what can you give us the the setup and walkthrough of your agents?
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Is that through Claude or how did you actually set those up and how are they connected?
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I am I'm an open AI girly.
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Okay, but I am not tied to it.
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In fact, I just took Grokbot for a spin this week, and holy cow, I think I I I used the free trial thing that they offer, and it was it was so good.
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It was so good.
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So there's there's a lot of confusing things right now, right?
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Because we've got the chat interfaces and and the uh generative AI, which we all know about, right?
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The text and images and all of that kind of stuff.
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And then we've it's like it what did I what did somebody call it?
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Like turn based.
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So like you ask, you say something, it says something.
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You say something, it says something, right?
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If you think about that interface.
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And then when you think of something that's more agentic, that is like I want you to go run up, it's time for updates this week.
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Go run all your pre-checks, update the sites when there's stuff that needs my input, put it into my task list and flag me, you know, like those things, and then it can go and do it.
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So um, I currently am doing that primarily with codecs, but I don't um oh, there's my kitty.
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I don't um have I'm not locked in there, right?
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So I keep everything so that it can be easily transferred to other agents, other platforms, whatever, because they are all changing so much so fast.
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That's what I was wondering.
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If you go to Grokba, and then that's the one you're gonna move forward with, and you do that for a couple months, and then you know, Claude finally comes out with theirs, are you, you know, I'm uh is it basically just a markdown file?
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Well, there's several markdown files, and I I built a system.
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I built a little system.
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So on my website, I have uh a custom post type that I mean, do you want me to get into the nitty-gritty of it?
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Oh, yeah, let's get nerdy.
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Yeah, okay.
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Let's get nerdy with it.
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Let's get nerdy with it, pal.
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I love it.
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So when someone purchases website maintenance, it does all the tagging and routing to my CRM and everything.
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It also um adds the site to a ledger on in a custom post type.
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That is like the source of truth, right?
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So it shows what plan they're on, what they're paying, who's the the customer that owns it.
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Because remember, I only serve agencies.
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So this is, you know, so there's and I call the agency, I call them our customer, and I call the website owners the clients.
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Because otherwise, I mean it's confusing.
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So I um so it shows who our customer is, it link connects to all their other
sites, all of these things, right?
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If they have any add-ons, all that stuff.
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And then the my bots, my agents, whatever, they have instructions that are MD files, basically, and it's not basically, it's MD files that have, you know, make sure that there's a backup within 24 hours.
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And it so it connects to WP Umbrella, goes through and does this.
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So it checks that there's a stable backup, recent enough.
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It checks to see what updates are needed.
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I have um like a safe list, so which just continues to develop as we go, right?
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It started off with me doing every single thing, and then I would gradually add on um, you know, permissions for AI to do different things as well.
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So I have um, you know, there's things like I don't know, what's a what's a plug?
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Like if WordFence has an update, like it's gonna be as fine.
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It's gonna be fine.
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If Yoast has an update, it's gonna be fine.
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You know what I mean?
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Like there's these sort of safe.
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Now, if it's a major update, uh it still flags it.
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But there there are as I've heard you talk about before, there's the there's the like bug fix updates, right?
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The small ones, the single point, and then you go to this the two points, and then you get to a major.
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And so if it's the little small ones, for the most part, those are all fine.
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Uh it still checks after, but those are pretty much all fine.
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They don't really hit cause issues.
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If they were something that could cause an issue, it's got to be a bigger jump in the version number.
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So, you know, I have this whole complex list of like instructions and guidelines and what's safe for them to do and what's not.
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When do they need permission from our conductors?
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So it goes through these various checks and things.
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It finds if there's any blockers, like uh Elementor updated, but Elementor Pro did not.
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Guess what?
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License expired.
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So then it crafts a message to be sent to the customer through our portal and says, Hey, do you have an updated license or do you need help getting it?
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Whatever.
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So it goes through all of those things.
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So it's it's got it's an agent doing things, but it's an agent doing things within the system that I built.
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Okay, gotcha.
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That a human could do the exact same stuff, but then I just have the agent doing the things using.
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I was gonna say it's no different than delegating and automating from a decade ago.
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It's just you're having an agent do it instead of a junior or hiring, you know, subcontractor.
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And I did the very same thing when I first built Focus WP.
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We started with maintenance only.
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And um I had which I've told the story on your show before, I think, but uh, I um I had already figured out that this maintenance thing was like super profitable.
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I had I had tried all the tools, all the everything, and I had figured out a little system.
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And I was charging $75 a month back then.
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And it, I I realized that it, or I mean, I calculated that it cost me $4 per site.
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I was loving it.
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So when I had told Tom about that when we met at a WordCamp, my he was like, let's start a let's start a business doing this, you know.
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So um, so that's where it all came from.
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But quickly realized I don't want to be the one doing it.
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So I just had an SOP basically, and I taught it.
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It's funny, I taught uh I hired some VAs, just my friend, a couple friends actually, they would do it.
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And um I taught them about how like if it's the a small point update, it's fine.
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If it's not, you know, like I just could I told them the same lessons basically that I taught my robots now.
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Yeah.
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So you decided to go with Codex.
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Is that run locally to do all these ongoing tasks?
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How do you have the how's that set up?
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Codex runs locally, yes, or in the cloud.
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It does have cloud projects now, which you can connect to GitHub, which now we're getting real geeky, right?
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:05.839
So you can connect it to GitHub and have instead of it living on your website, it can live in the cloud on GitHub servers and run your projects.
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:25.599
And that's what terrifies me about security and vulnerabilities, is like particularly something run locally makes me feel more much more uh comfortable than something that could potentially be exposed and then have access to.
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:32.160
You know, for for Web Designer Pro members, for example, we have some members who are literally running anywhere between 100, 200.
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.200
We have a couple members that are 400 plus sites.
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:44.799
So they're really thinking, you know, we're at a whole different level right now with some folks who, you know, when you have a maintenance plan that you start 10 years ago, it compounds.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.559
And next thing you know, I mean, in a few years, I got mine to 75 sites.
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.960
If I was still running that plan, I'd probably have well over five, six hundred sites by now.
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.359
Um that would be my entire business.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.039
I wouldn't have Web Design Pro, probably.
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:57.359
Right.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.400
So uh I'm glad I made the the move that I did.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:06.960
But I mean, even Eric within transit, I think we're at a hundred and thirty, hundred and twenty or thirty plus sites that we're managing right now.
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:08.400
Get it together and get it up.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.119
I know, right?
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.400
That that could be more, but he's focused on more, he's doing much more.
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:13.279
Like I love it.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:15.279
He's quality over quantity for sure.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:16.880
Another Divi chat pal.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:17.920
Yep, yep.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:18.720
Another Divi chat.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.720
Yeah, miss the Divi chat days sometimes.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:28.160
All that to say, this is where like I just feel a little uneasy about folks who are using agents.
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:36.640
I trust you, Steph, because you are a self-proclaimed geek and you are security-minded and you know the the ropes on this stuff.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:45.839
But for folks who are yeah, using agents to to run their entire business, I am a l-I'm very apprehensive about that from a security perspective.
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.279
It is a little scary.
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.000
I mean, there's because it's so unknown and stuff is changing so fast.
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:57.599
Um, but the thing I come back to too is like Yeah, calm me down.
00:20:57.680 --> 00:20:58.160
Calm me down.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.240
Humans are also dangerous.
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:11.440
You know, if you've got um one of the things Tom Rafe always talks about is stolen browser cookies.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:20.880
If you are if you don't log out, you could have any kind of like you could get a little tiny virus on your computer that you don't even know it's there.
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:27.200
And even on a Mac, Mac peeps, because I'm a Mac person too, and we don't want to believe it, but it's true.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:34.720
And then it can capture your cookies, which let's be honest, does anybody really know what cookies are?
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640
Not a lot of us, I think, right?
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:39.200
We pretend like we do, but do we?
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:44.480
Anyway, it can capture your browser cookies, which uh has you logged in.
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:59.359
And so they can steal that and then on their side, on their side of things, like on their computer in whatever country they're in, they can actually go and log into your client sites, your bank, your anything with these stolen cookies because.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:05.200
It's already in a logged in state, even if you have two-factor authentication, even if you have all this stuff.
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:24.720
So there's no safe, is is basically my point, which is terrifying, except for uh it was manually going and cleaning up malware or hacks or any of that stuff is so time consuming and so difficult to do.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:38.240
You can use an AI agent or you know Claude co-work or ChatGPT work or Grochbot or Muse.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:39.279
I don't know about Muse.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.799
We're a little worried about that.
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.079
I mean it's so new security things with it because it's you know, when it's when it's free, it's never free.
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.640
When it when there's no money changing hands, you're the you're the product.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:57.039
And I mean, just a quick tip for everyone at this point in the conversation.
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:02.400
When Tom was in pro recently, we asked him for just like a final thought and he said log out.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.160
He's like, that's like his best security.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.200
This is my point, right?
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:12.160
So log out of things, which is very difficult to do because let's face it, we have I do, we have login fatigue.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:31.759
Oh whenever it's like you try and sign in or sign up for something, and it's like it's gotta send you a two-factor code, and then you go and you're oh, your email's not logged in, so you gotta log into that, which then sends a thing to your phone, which then it's like you you're like, I was trying to do something for two seconds, and it's like a whole chain of tasks, and it it wears you out.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:35.920
And so it's very easy to slip into bad habits.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.640
How do you feel about the finger the fingerprint stuff?
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.599
Because I do that a lot to where like like in order to give it a lot of people.
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.920
I don't know if I I'm not a security expert.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.119
That's a Tom question.
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:46.240
Okay, I mean by the way.
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:47.279
We gotta get Tom on.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:53.839
We gotta get him on the podcast to really maybe I'll maybe I'll do a poll and pro and get a bunch of questions for Tom and we'll just do them on the phone.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:55.119
He would love it.
00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:01.440
Also, I don't know if you know this, but he's like he
might give you a run for your money on your dad joke.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.119
Oh, he had some good ones.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:05.680
Him and I, I was like, dude, me and Tom, we just became best friends.
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:09.119
Yeah, we have a few years between us, but that's not gonna stop anything.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.480
He's uh so the oh I forgot what I was just gonna say.
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:16.000
Oh, we're talking fingerprint.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:37.599
So biometrics, the thing that's tricky with biometrics in my world is when you have a team, and if I want to literally legitimately grant access to people on my team who are trusted, and it becomes a whole thing trying to get through that.
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:38.960
But that's my problem, not yours.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:41.440
So what back to maintenance.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:42.160
Yeah.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:53.119
I'm curious what uh if you were a solopreneur step, which you are, but I mean, like, let's say you're just uh we'll call average web designer, you've got you know 20, 30 clients.
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.279
Do you think it's worthwhile?
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:06.480
Like what when would you suggest taking a route of like training agents and having, or at the very least, like a delegation model with team and tasks?
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:11.359
Like, what number of sites do you think it becomes a little more important to have?
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.079
Yeah, more like a I don't know if it's about the number of sites.
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:16.079
I think it's about the person.
00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:28.960
Like if I if all this changed and I just went back to having my own little agents, little boutique agency, and I had one client, I would be using an agent and automating everything.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.880
But that's how I'm wired.
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:34.319
I like to tinker.
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:35.839
I love new technology.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.039
I think this is also fun and exciting.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:43.519
So I don't, I don't know, maybe I'm not the right person to ask that.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:46.480
I know you're more cautious, which is also fine.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.440
It's very good, in fact, to be cautious about this stuff.
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:57.759
So I think it's more a matter of how you've decided to run your business and your life, even for that matter, you know?
00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:58.480
Yeah.
00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:59.599
No, that's good.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:07.680
So speaking of AI, a question I'm getting a lot now is I want to build recurring revenue, but I don't use WordPress.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:14.960
Or some of my sites have moved from WordPress to vibecoded or a different platform, whether it's Webflow, Squarespace, whatever.
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:19.440
So, inevitable question what is maintenance?
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.559
And I have some thoughts on this, but I want to hear from you first for sure.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.079
Since you are, I don't know how many.
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:32.240
Yeah, like how much what do you how do you do a maintenance plan, a support plan, a care plan, whatever you want to call it for a non-WordPress site?
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:45.920
First of all, I would love to just step back a little, like pull back a little bit and say that this is a bigger deal than just a simple, what do you do for maintenance to me?
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:52.400
Because WordPress still, you know, it's not like nothing is killing WordPress right now.
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:57.599
You know, there's all the like extremists saying one side or the other.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:09.599
But also, we have a lot more that's available to us as web designers, web developers, service providers, marketers, right?
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:14.480
We can spin up static sites much easier.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.119
And like, I'm not gonna get into the debate about like, oh, they'll look the same, all those kind of things.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.200
We're talking just the tech of it.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:38.160
If you, if your client never logs into their site, if they don't have e-commerce or something like a big WooCommerce store, if they don't have like if they don't have a lot of interactive stuff happening, why are they in WordPress at this point?
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.599
I get, I get why they were, why we started that way, right?
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:52.559
If, but I also think that like if um wait, how does that thing go if if everything, if WordPress is the hammer, then every client is a name?
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:52.960
I don't know.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:54.480
You know that you know what I'm talking about?
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.599
Like, how's that thing go?
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:58.960
Is how a lot of us have been, because that's our tool of choice.
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:09.839
And that's fine, except for if you've got a c a client that could actually benefit because it would be safer, faster, all of those things.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:18.720
What is it ethical to keep them on WordPress with a maintenance plan?
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:28.799
However, for your business, how can you justify financially to move them if everything is still functioning fine and they're happy they're not mad about it, right?
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:34.240
Then you move them over to a static site and you what you lose your recurring revenue?
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:37.680
Like that's not feasible or viable either, right?
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:43.039
So I think there's a really big discussion that can be had around this topic.
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:55.119
And I think it's another one of those things where there isn't a right answer because it involves, you know, your ethics, your your morality and your conscience on things.
00:28:55.119 --> 00:29:02.640
Um what I am finding is if you've got like this
is an unavoidable thing now.
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:12.880
Even if you're not the one deciding it, we've we've got clients coming to us saying, like, I asked Claude and it said I should do this, or here's the design that my Claude made me.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:14.960
I want to use this instead, whatever, right?
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:19.039
So um there's it's happening.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:28.400
And I don't, I don't think that we should be like die hard, like no, we're busy is the only way, because it it isn't.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:33.359
It's good for what it's good for, but then for other things, there's other, you know, there's options.
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.880
There's not, it's not always the right answer.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:41.680
So anyway, I think where we're coming to is what is the point of this stuff anyway?
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:42.240
Right?
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:46.640
It if we're calling it maintenance, it's because things need done to the site.
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:51.200
Like we need to run updates and backups and security patches and all of that.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:56.160
If we don't have to do those things, does our client still need us?
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:58.480
And the answer should be yes.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:09.119
So now what we do as service providers is say, how can I serve my client in a way that still benefits their business or maybe benefits it even more?
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:09.599
Right.
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:18.640
So if we've got all these tools that have reduced the amount of effort that we need to put in, why not just increase the value?
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:31.440
So what if instead of um, you know, we don't have to run updates, but you can still monitor, monitor their performance, you can still monitor their uptime, you can still do all of those things.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:50.079
If you've got your AI of choice, you know, Claude or Codex or whoever, if you have it connected to their site through um SSH, through Nova Mira, through some of these things, well, I guess we're talking about non-WordPress, so we know, but whatever it is.
00:30:50.079 --> 00:31:01.680
If you can then within the same window that you're doing your other work in, right there, say, uh, you know, the client sends a message in and you say, go make this edit to their site, boom, it goes off and does it.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:07.519
It hasn't taken any more time for you than just that, and to confirm that it's been done.
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:16.240
Um you can offer stuff that is so valuable to them that doesn't take as much time for you.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:22.079
And let's be honest, like if even if you've got you can do a lot with a $20 a month subscription.
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:24.319
So it's not as expensive for us.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.240
You know, so there's all these different factors.
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:32.400
So uh we're playing around actually with um with an unlimited updates
plan.
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.920
Because oh, interesting.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.039
Yeah, it is interesting.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:39.039
I know.
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:40.799
I cannot believe that the words are even.
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.720
Stephanie, can you rebuild my website with my unlimited updates?
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:46.799
It's never unlimited, though.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.480
It's a limited, unlimited.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:49.200
Okay.
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.519
Because it all is, it has to be, right?
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.119
You can't, it can't not be.
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:56.319
So it's a fair use policy, basically, is what we call it.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.720
So sorry for whoever's voice sounded like mine when I called them out there.
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.440
That's a pretty good impression.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:09.039
So uh, you know, we've got if we can just automate so much of this, right?
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:16.319
We're we're working on a system that a colleague of mine has built, and he's I'm like watching him do this.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:19.680
He's got it where client requests come in.
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:25.039
There's a couple methods, either a form that's built on their own site or through an email.
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:29.599
The AI checks it out, proposes an option.
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:36.559
The the owner, the, you know, the us in the scenario would say, I'll do it or you do it.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:52.559
It goes and does it, spins up a staging site on Cloudflare pages or GitHub pages, uh, shows the things, sends it to the client for approval, comes back approved, or changes, you know, lather and strepe.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.960
Once it's approved, it's pushed to the live site.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:00.319
It all could happen like 99% autonomously.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:07.119
And with those kind of things, like if I'm not selling my time, I'm selling value.
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:17.440
So the more value I can send, I can I can give to my clients without spending tons of time, like that's a win-win for everybody.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:21.680
So it's a it's a bit of an adjustment in how we're thinking about this stuff, I think.
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:27.519
Because previously we were thinking like, what did we have to do to keep their site up and functional?
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:38.480
And now we're saying we can switch to if we don't have to worry so much about that ugly technical kind of a drag stuff, right?
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:41.839
Like nothing's fun about that, except for the paycheck that comes in from it.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:46.480
But like if we can switch it over to how can we help you grow your business?
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:52.799
And it takes us even less time, like it's a great scenario.
00:33:52.799 --> 00:34:02.799
So I think you kind of need to, instead of thinking about it as maintenance, I think we need to think of it in
a slightly different way.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.640
And I haven't coined the new term yet.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:06.400
You know, we care for better.
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:12.480
I have a lot of terms, and I'm fortunate to be able to see what's working in so many different capacities.
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:18.000
I've grown to love the term support plan, which is kind of going back to the OG.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:25.199
Um I framed it as more of a security plan, which is even more timely now.
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:28.159
But a lot of people have done care plans.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:31.840
Um there's a mix of quite a few there.
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:34.480
Steph, I'm kind of hearing myself in your I know.
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.800
Your headphones go out.
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.199
You could try the my headphones disconnected.
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.039
It must be a riverside thing, huh?
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.440
Because you said that happens, and I've kind of like, I'm like, eh.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:44.800
Sounds good now.
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:45.760
Did the echoes.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:46.880
I just realized.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:48.480
I'm like, I'm not hearing you in here.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:49.039
I'm hearing you.
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:49.920
Oh, perfect.
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.880
Hey, the echo cancellation works great, luckily with Riverside.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:54.239
Uh yeah, I was joking with Steph.
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:55.039
I don't wear headphones.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.280
I haven't for years now, just because I they would always disconnect halfway through, and sure enough.
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:03.840
Um, but I've seen, yeah, a few different variations of like how to frame a plan.
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:18.880
I think what is really interesting that you're hitting on is I view now in 2026 and beyond over the next few years, that there's now three buckets of maintenance plan support plans, whatever term we want to phrase it.
00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:29.440
One is WordPress, which takes a different amount of deliverables with actually like updating WordPress, updating themes, updating plugins, and everything else that are typical within maintenance plans.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:49.119
Two would be AI website support plans, which is gonna be a little bit different than like a self-hosted platform like Squarespace or Webflow, um, because you could still support sites that are self-hosted, but you're not gonna have anything to do with hosting or a lot of the performance features.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:57.360
So I think that's what I'm seeing now as I'm visualizing this, is really three new buckets of like different categories of support plans.
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:08.800
Now, I like that you talked about the idea of like an ethical type of thing with this, because I'm sure some clients that are more savvy may ask, yeah, like why do I need a support plan if I have an AI site?
00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.559
You don't need to do backups and maintenance and hosting and support.
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:29.039
And however, I would I would push back on like not needing that simply because I think the only thing truly that you would not need to have any sort of support eyes on would be the plugin updates.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:34.800
Because hosting, there's still going to be hosting involved if it's a vibe coded site.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:38.800
You could absolutely do the hosting for vibe coded sites, which could be a very minimal.
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:45.280
If it's $320 a month, that's still instead of them going to another host and buying hosting, you could house that.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.639
So that's something you could still do in an AI support plan.
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:57.119
Um like you mentioned, there's absolutely things to do in the way of like performance, even security.
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:03.360
Like, yeah, if you vibe code a site, you're still gonna need to do security checks and you're still gonna need to do monitoring.
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:26.239
So I actually think from a typical maintenance plan, which I typically recommend, it includes about nine things-ish, which is gonna be hosting, security, plug-in updates, optimization, monthly reports, um, support time per month, auto privacy policies with Termageddon, uh, a discounted rate, and then backups.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:30.559
Like probably the only difference, and and then you could charge for backups too.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:45.840
So yeah, actually, uh now that I'm talking this out loud, the only thing that is truly completely not um viable for AI sites is just yeah, WordPress, core, plugins, and theme updates.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:50.320
Everything else can still be done for an AI site, just to a different degree.
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.280
I have a suggestion on your terminology.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:53.760
Okay.
00:37:53.760 --> 00:38:04.719
I would not call them AI sites because you can build a WordPress site with AI, you can build all kinds of different sites with AI.
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:08.639
I think that what you're referring to there is a static site.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:09.679
Okay.
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:19.039
And I think that's important because I think also saying an AI website could be a little bit polarizing to people if they don't know.
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:23.599
Like sometimes people think it's cool that we're using AI tools to do stuff.
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.880
Some people are scared to death of it because they don't understand it.
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:36.000
So, you know, when you're talking to non-technical clients, I think that you want to be careful with that.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.199
I don't think you should be shady.
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.719
You know, I think it's great to have an AI policy on your site and talk about that kind of stuff.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:48.400
But
but I don't think calling it an AI site that I mean, is that mean it the site is AI?
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:50.960
Does that mean that you're using AI to maintain it?
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.440
Do you see how I'm saying how it's a little bit ambiguous?
00:38:54.000 --> 00:39:01.519
It's like AI is the mechanism, the tool, but the end result is a static HTML website.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:02.320
I see what you mean.
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:06.159
Sort of AI is in that scenario, is the developer.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.159
It's the junior developer that you've got.
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:16.000
So because the site could be built in Astro, it could be built in TypeScript, it could be built in all all kinds of different, it could be built in WordPress, right?
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.079
It could be and in WordPress, it could be built in different builders, or it could be built in Gutenberg.
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:32.559
Like there's so many different things that could make up the code of the site, but if AI is writing the code, that's just that's your developer, basically.
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:41.119
People do know the terminology, and I see this day in and day out on every platform, which is like AI sites, AI slop sites.
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:48.159
Like it is still, I think that term like from it is interesting because you and I have a unique perspective.
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:53.280
We're seeing people who are really just super in in it, in the trenches of this.
00:39:53.280 --> 00:40:00.719
And then there's the people who if I were to tell my neighbors a static website, they're gonna look cross-eyed and they're not gonna understand what that means.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:03.039
But if I said an AI site, they actually may know.
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.719
Like, oh, it's like something you built in the website.
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:07.679
I don't think they do know though, because I don't think that's what it really means.
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:12.079
It's I don't think it's I don't think they care if it's a WordPress site either.
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.840
It's just their website.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.000
It is like I don't think it's interesting.
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.639
I don't really think I think the difference is on our side.
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:26.400
It's behind the scenes and it's in the stuff that we're doing, and there's a lot of difference in like how we handle the the technology.
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:46.239
But I don't think if you have Claude build it or you have your pal Fred, who's a developer, build it, like I don't think the end result one is faster than the other, but you're gonna end up with you know, you could end up with a site that looks the same.
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:53.280
If you're if you're going from a design, you could, you know, you could have AI and a human build the site.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:59.440
I don't think that's really um the defining factor.
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:06.639
But the hosting also, if we could just jump to that a little bit, there's a lot of options for that now too.
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:40.239
So you can have if you have basic static sites, you can uh host them literally for free or five dollars and under because there's all these different things like um Cloudflare pages and GitHub pages, I think it's called, and a lot of the AI tools, which I I'm not 100% sold on doing client work on these things yet, but you can launch sites through Claude, through ChatGPT, throw the stuff and actually attach a domain name to it.
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:50.159
Even WordPress, um the company, you know, WordPress.com, they um have a tool called SpaceFast.
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.119
Have you heard of this?
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:51.760
No.
00:41:52.239 --> 00:42:04.480
It's a hosting platform that is mostly free and it's made to be agentic, so you can launch all kinds of stuff for free, and you can use your domain and all this stuff.
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:09.280
So there's some some of it has a little bit of cost, but it's pretty cheap, and you can do it all with your agents.
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:15.760
So this this is sort of a new world coming to where hosting costs are going way down.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:18.800
It's a it's a it's a wild tie.
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:25.360
Well, so let it be known, Stephanie Hudson on the Web Design Business Podcast said it publicly.
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:32.400
It's probably fair to say that you are saying there's no such thing as an AI site.
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:35.519
Because it's a static site.
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.280
Like it's a I take your point.
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:49.119
I'm definitely I'm re I'm reconsidering that terminology because it it is a good point that you know whether regardless of where it's hosted or whatever, that the tool that made it is AI.
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.400
But is it HTML?
00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.079
It is a is it built in HTML.
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.360
Yeah, it's an HTML.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.559
That's the kind of site it is.
00:42:56.559 --> 00:42:59.679
Static versus dynamic is really where you get into.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:05.519
If it's a dynamic site, that means it's got a bunch of code on it, it's got JavaScript, PHP, whatever.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:11.360
And that's what needs a little bit more care, but because of the nature that it is dynamic.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:22.480
So since we're already geeking out, if a if a static site gets built, these files get put on the server, which is just a computer in the in someplace else, right?
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:24.400
And then those are just viewed.
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:33.760
But if you have a dynamic site, when somebody lands on your site and interacts with it, stuff gets sent to the server and then the page is built and sent.
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:40.079
So there's an interaction with the server and the person who's visiting.
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:50.159
And that could be things like there's uh cookies involved that are saving things that from a previous login that they've had.
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:53.199
They could be logging into the site, which obviously has to go back and forth.
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:54.400
So there's all these different things.
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.679
And so that's when you start to get like when the front end of your site has to talk to the back end.
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:09.599
That's where those kind of transmissions can cause can be uh can kind of vulnerabilities inserted into them.
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:22.719
Well, this is interesting as I've I feel like I've uh learned to talk visu like I have a visual every time we have a conversation like this when I'm thinking about viewing like a potential service page or something.
00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:39.599
And I'm just thinking like yeah, there's essentially WordPress, like when it comes to maintenance, the different types of sites you could maintain maintenance plan, like or excuse me, WordPress, static, and self-hosted, like Squarespace, Webflow.
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.400
And you may have plans that could cater to each one of those.
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:46.239
AI could absolutely be involved each with each one of those.
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:46.719
Exactly.
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:47.519
So I take that.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:56.159
And I don't I don't know that for for your folks, like I I don't know that you really need to have separate plans for all of those things.
00:44:56.159 --> 00:45:06.480
I think if they're not on WordPress, then you know you don't have to say we're updating your plugins, but I I don't I don't know.
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:07.760
I I have to think about that.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.880
That that thought just popped into my head and just shot out.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:11.679
So I don't know.
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:14.480
But I think basically what are what are we providing?
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.400
Are we just updating plugins?
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:20.079
Because like literally we're not necessary for that.
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:22.639
Like that can be automated to a large extent.
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.920
It still needs help, but you know, I mean like WP Umbrella, right?
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:29.119
It can just do safe updates, and if something breaks, it goes back and fixes it.
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:46.239
But one of the things I've always said with our care plans at focus, so one of the advantages that we offer is not just pushing the update button, because literally every one of your students can update a WordPress site.
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:49.840
The issue is what happens if something breaks?
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.239
What happens if it jacks up the layout?
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:53.760
What happens if the site goes down?
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:54.559
All of those things.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:46:04.719
So that's what we offer is the peace of mind that we will spend up to an hour troubleshooting and fixing if something goes wrong.
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.159
So see how that's different than selling plugin updates?
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:10.719
And you can do the same for your clients.
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:17.440
You can pass that on to them to like they don't care what a plugin is, they don't even understand what a plugin is.
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:19.280
We're going through all these analogies trying to teach them.
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:20.719
It's like updating apps on your phone.
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:21.440
Guess what?
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:27.599
Nobody wants to update the apps on their phone either because they up, my mom is like anti-updates on her phone.
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:31.039
She swears every time she updates an app that it breaks everything.
00:46:31.039 --> 00:46:37.920
So, you know, like these words mean different things to us than they do to non-technical business owners.
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.119
You know, that's a good point.
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:46.159
To us, it's like, ah, security, a pat, you know, a patch of some sort to the average person, are like, oh, it's gonna look different.
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:47.119
Yep.
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:51.519
So so there's a lot to think about with all of this.
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:59.039
Um, you know what I How real quick, Steph, do you feel differently about earlier you said like there's an ethical dilemma.
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.199
Should I sell maintenance if I'm not using WordPress?
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.079
Do you feel differently now after us getting getting into that?
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:08.159
Um I don't know if I feel differently.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:20.239
I think I was sort of there, but I um I have a certain standard that I want to uphold for myself and my business.
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:31.920
I don't feel comfortable just charging people money to keep a WordPress site updated if it's really unnecessary for them.
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:44.960
I think if I can offer them a better service and take their money in a way that helps them to grow their business rather than just being an expense, I would rather do that.
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:48.159
But that is a personal choice and a personal decision.
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:52.159
Like that's not, you know, that's well.
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.679
I think what would be more unethical is building a site and just letting it go.
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:59.360
And then when they have to deal with it.
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:05.599
No, it's it's stupid.
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:07.039
It's stupid for everybody.
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.400
You're not serving your client, you're not serving your own business.
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:12.960
Like it's just idiotic.
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:13.599
Yeah.
00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:23.280
Well, I do, you know, early on when you pose that question of like, yeah, do you need a support
plan if it is a site that's that's built with static with AI or whatever tool?
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:27.360
Yeah, to my mind, still, truly, like the only big difference is the plugin updates.
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:29.599
Everything else still applies to some degree.
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:38.239
So I think there's definitely a world where both routes, maybe you just have a support plan, and whether they use WordPress or not, you do it.
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:48.480
Or you could have two variations where there's a WordPress specific plan and then a call it whatever, static or plan, whatever.
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:58.719
Well, yeah, and if it's a static site, there's no there's no admin area, there's no back end, there's nowhere for your clients to go make changes.
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.559
If they have a login to make changes, it's no longer a static.
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:05.760
If if they're logging in on the front end, you know what I mean?
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:13.760
So if we're gonna have sites built like that, then that's not for clients who want to get into their site, unless you're connecting.
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.280
So I said, you know, like that gets very complicated.
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:26.559
So if you are going that route, it does put another responsibility on you that you are now their gateway to their site.
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:30.639
Which for a lot of our clients, it's like that with WordPress anyway.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:31.760
They don't want to do it.
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:36.400
But it's it's all just I think it's so fun to think about.
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:37.760
Yeah, this has been fun.
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:43.519
I've actually really enjoyed kind of hashing this out with somebody who's on the inside and has your perspective.
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:45.920
We are on the opposite end of the spectrum.
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:49.039
You are uh early adopter with AI, as you have been.
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:52.239
I mean, you were involved with Bertha years ago and all sorts of.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.880
I mean, you've always been on the front lines that I'm definitely a late adopter, a little more cautious.
00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:01.840
Um, I also see every horror story imaginable, coaching members and pros.
00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:10.400
So I'm like, I feel like I'm a uh, I don't know, like uh forensics forensics uh specialist, and I just see like all the murders.
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:14.159
And so like I'm looking out on the street like, oh my god, anyone could be a murderer.
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:16.079
It's kind of hilarious.
00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:18.719
Come up in the world online as a coach now.
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:25.360
Uh I was just, you know, perfectly uh not ambiguous, but uh what's the word I'm looking for?
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.760
I was blissfully ignorant a decade ago.
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:33.280
Like, oh I'm gonna have a maintenance plan and now I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm
really thinking through security.
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:34.800
Um, but this is great.
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:36.639
This really kind of helped me think about this.
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:38.239
I'm sure it's gonna be helpful for other folks.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.000
Now, for anyone who was like, I don't want to deal with this.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.960
Softball lead, where should they go?
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:46.079
I gotcha.
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:50.400
You can go to focuswp.co slash josh hall.
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:56.159
There's a little hookup for Josh Hall peeps, as always.
00:50:56.159 --> 00:51:05.599
Get a little discount, and then we've got some other resources on that site too, because I don't like to just show people how much it costs to work with me.
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:08.880
I like to show people how much they can make if they work with me.
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:17.039
So if you are gonna, if if you're gonna subscribe for this, this, or this, then I recommend you charge this.
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:26.880
And that I think sometimes can be really helpful to folks who are feeling a little insecure about stuff or who are new to the industry or have some imposter syndrome or whatever.
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:32.960
So we've got some little pricing calculators and things that we'll have um that you can check out on that page.
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:46.400
And also another thing that you know is near and dear to my heart is if you are, especially if you've got these sites that are you're the only one that has access to them and they're static, what happens if you get hit by the old bus, right?
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:55.280
Um, so I know that you have talked about before how the the issue that happened with your daughter, you were in the NICU and all that.
00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:59.519
Uh, you guys were managed to be able to keep doing your updates.
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:07.280
But as most everybody knows, here I was hit by the bus in a different way and I was in a coma and I couldn't.
00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:10.480
So what do you do in that situation?
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:12.559
How do you prep for that?
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:22.880
Uh, it's a very overwhelming question, and I think it's one that's on uh that resurfaces for folks a lot, but can be scary because you just don't know what to do.
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:45.840
So I also have um I hate calling it a prompt, but it's a little, it's a bit of text that you can paste in to your AI of choice to have it interview you and help you set up uh your 72-hour plan, which is much easier than like a whole entire business continuity plan for every possible scenario.
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:57.119
This is like if you gotta be rushed to the hospital and have your appendix out, or you know, or there's a fam death in the family, or you've got to take your dog to the whatever, I don't know.
00:52:57.119 --> 00:53:07.360
But like if you've got an emergency that takes you out of communication, maybe it's even a natural disaster and your internet and phone goes down for a few days, what happens?
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:12.960
And the basic setup is you have to choose two people.
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:17.840
One is somebody in your personal life who will know if something happened.
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:28.559
When I went into a coma, I was very fortunate that Andrew Palmer was there and happened to have my mom's phone number, which is so random and weird.
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:36.000
But you need somebody in your personal life who knows what happened so that they can alert somebody else.
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:45.199
And then mostly the people that you make, you know, I'm sure tons of folks in pro have, you know, um, disaster buddies or whatever you want to call it, right?
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:51.119
So they'll say, like, if something happens to you, it's a good term for you, we'll we'll take care of the other person's stuff, right?
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:58.880
And you can have those friendly things, but how does that person know something has happened if you are unconscious or you know, whatever?
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:03.840
And so that's where you've got this notification system.
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:15.760
So you have somebody in your personal life that preferably isn't on the plane with you when it goes down, you know, but uh it gets a little morbid talking about this stuff, but you know, it's great, that's important stuff.
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:16.000
Yeah.
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:20.320
If you've got somebody in your personal life, I call them your pal.
00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:34.239
And if you've got a pal in your real in your personal life that then can notify somebody in your business world that is able to take care of things, and the key is always what you do about the credentials and all the passwords.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:34.639
Right.
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:49.039
So your pal knows where the secrets are hidden, and they have a pre-written thing that they can send to a predetermined person who can then take action from there.
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:58.960
They can delegate to other people if it's needed, they can do whatever, or they can just send out an email to your client list and say, Hey, if you need anything, I'm on call for a couple days, whatever.
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:00.960
You know, there's a lot of different moving parts in that.
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:19.599
But basically the idea is if you have one person that can notify one other person, then and you have passwords and stuff and stuff hidden in a vault that that person can then find, you can have a little bit more peace of mind.
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:20.719
Yeah, I love that.
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:29.519
It is a little bit complicated to think through all the things, so that's why I have this little um interview prompt basically where it'll go.
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:31.440
Is that live on focus?
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:34.639
Or it's
or is that something that you have?
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:38.079
Just no, it's I'm just putting it on the site, actually.
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.199
I haven't put it there yet.
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:39.760
But it's gonna be.
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.559
If you can send me a link by the time this goes live, I'll make sure we include that.
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:42.800
Absolutely.
00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:43.599
Oh, for sure.
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:44.800
Yeah, it's gonna be on your page.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:45.519
I'll put it there.
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:46.559
Okay, awesome.
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:47.840
Tons of resources there.
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:48.079
Yeah.
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:53.920
I had a local colleague of mine who was a really established business owner, and we talked about this more recently.
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:58.960
And he's like, honestly, is like what somebody needs is your email and your phone.
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:04.960
Like there's the for confirmations, the you can pretty much track everything else down from there.
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:05.519
Yeah.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:06.400
Um, exactly.
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:07.280
Which is true.
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:19.199
Like even yeah, but I have my phone has uh facial recognition to open, and uh it doesn't work if my eyes are closed.
00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:22.480
And I was in a coma and nobody knew my pin.
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:24.239
And who wants somebody to have your pin?
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:25.039
You know what I mean?
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:26.159
Like it's complicated.
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:27.039
It's complicated.
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:30.800
It could be hidden some, it can be somewhere that someone can access and have.
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:31.360
Yeah.
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:33.119
But it was a it was a real problem.
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:44.480
And it was funny when I finally came to enough that I could um like move and speak and hear, uh, they were like, You gotta unlock your phone.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:45.280
We need my family.
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:46.639
We need info off of it.
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:48.880
They're like, What's your pin?
00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:49.599
What's your pin?
00:56:49.599 --> 00:57:00.400
And I could because I'm a geek, I I do it, I don't have a number, I have it like a pattern of, but it's on it's a number pad, but I have like certain numbers that I pick that are just quick to type.
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:01.199
Same here.
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:04.000
I don't know the numbers, I know the letters, I don't know the numbers.
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:04.800
Exactly.
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:06.480
I couldn't remember it.
00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.599
Like I couldn't, my brain was so fogged in.
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:13.519
And so I couldn't remember it, but I was like, I can let me type it.
00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:15.760
But my dexterity was still way off.
00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:20.000
And I um I did it wrong, and then
I did it wrong.
00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:21.280
I bricked my phone.
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.400
Oh no.
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:31.440
Soon as you came back to oh so I mean it's weeks before I could get in via wait, what?
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:41.920
Oh I was gonna say somebody could get in via like iMessage if you have it on your computer or something like that, as far as like, you know, phone, like as far as like texting, like getting codes and stuff, but right.
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.360
But but again, it's everything is password protected.
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:48.320
What who knows the password to my Mac?
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.639
And I have two Macs, and you know what I mean?
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:51.840
Like all there's so much stuff.
00:57:51.840 --> 00:58:03.679
But if you could just have one document, one document that has the basics that can't that it that and people don't need to have access to it until the thing goes down.
00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:10.320
So you give it to your aunt or your cousin or your nephew or whoever who has no interest in getting into your stuff anyway.
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:18.400
And when that when it hits the fan, when the or when the bus hits you, you that can be sent to somebody who who could be trusted with it.
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.360
And then you can have peace of mind before and after, right?
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:33.039
So and and most things, you know, the the Red Cross and things like that, they have recommendations that if there's a natural disaster, or if there's this or that, that you should have three days of food and water.
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:39.280
So in your little go bag or your, you know, in the garage wherever you keep your emergency stuff.
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:52.159
If your power goes out or if there's flooding or if there's whatever, it generally takes about three days for rescue workers to mobilize or for services to be restored or whatever.
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:56.320
Like usually within a three-day period, you're back up and running.
00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:00.559
That's not everything, of course, but that is like the vast majority of things.
00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:03.679
And it works, it's the same with this, in my opinion.
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:15.360
So that's why I recommend instead of trying to solve for every possible scenario, just find like solve for the three days, and that's a lot less stressful to do.
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:22.239
Yeah, I like that window, that little 72-hour window for digital safety as well.
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:22.719
That's good.
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:28.320
Yeah, obviously, this could be a whole other topic as well, which we may have to do a round on that just because it is an important thing.
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:32.320
Would I be the first fifth timer, Josh?
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:34.800
Ooh, maybe.
00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:37.280
I think You may be the first case.
00:59:37.280 --> 00:59:38.400
It'd be like SNL.
00:59:38.480
--> 00:59:42.559
You know, they have a special club for people who come back and host five times.
00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:43.679
That's true.
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:44.639
Yeah, you're the first one.
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:49.039
You might need to give me like a new like a jacket that has like an emblem on it.
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:51.039
Yeah, yeah, the fifth timer club.
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:51.760
Oh, I like that.
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:58.000
I mean, that's a well, you know, that's a well-earned uh status symbol to be.
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.559
I mean, that should be like the the front.
01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:02.239
That should be the line on your website.
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:03.199
Fifth time on the website.
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:04.559
I would put it on my business card.
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:05.119
Yeah.
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:05.760
I would.
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:08.719
I would personally, you know, I'd wear it as a shirt.
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:10.320
I would definitely highlight that.
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.039
Um five times 5x, baby.
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:13.920
5x.
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:20.960
I'm really, yeah, we're gonna have to talk about that because we have taught, we've had discussions about like disaster planning and stuff, but I love that prompt idea.
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:26.880
So yeah, so that will be at the link that we'll have in the show notes focuswp.co slash josh hall.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:30.639
Uh I've got a couple links that send it to there too.
01:00:30.639 --> 01:00:33.039
Um, so we'll make sure to send everybody over there.
01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:36.159
But Steph, this has been great, super fun combo.
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:38.719
So I've really, really enjoyed getting into this.
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:51.840
I'm actually really glad we talked before I've officially uh started working on creating the videos for my the new version of my maintenance plan course, just because that the different categories of support plans I think are very, very actionable.
01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:54.320
And they're gonna, you know, clients are gonna have those questions.
01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:55.440
So I'm sure we gotta look at it.
01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:56.480
It's wild times.
01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:57.599
Yeah, and it's so fun.
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:11.920
And for those who are getting uh feeling overwhelmed or intimidated, the thing that has not changed is that no matter what our clients are doing, we still know a minimum of 10% more than them.
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:14.639
Like we still know way more.
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.360
Probably like not 100 times more.
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:18.719
Right?
01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:22.079
But all you really need is 10x more to be able to help them.
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:31.679
And if you focus on trying to help people, and if you just remember that you actually are smarter than you think.
01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:44.960
Well, Troy Dean told me here on the podcast a quote that has stuck with me, which is you don't you don't need to be the best web designer in the world.
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.440
You just need to be the best in your sphere of clients.
01:01:47.440 --> 01:01:49.519
And I was like, ooh, that's it.
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:50.400
That's it right there.
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:52.320
You're a little sphere, you're a little client.
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.519
Like, is yeah, you're just one step ahead of them, you can charge for it.
01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:58.559
So real quick, where do you host your passwords?
01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:00.800
Where do you where do you try what password manager do you trust?
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:01.840
I use one password.
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:03.760
They've all got breached.
01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:06.000
They've all been breached at some point.
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:07.840
I use one password.
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:11.760
Uh I like that it has different vaults in there.
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:21.199
So in our business, I have a vault that has some shared passwords with my family, like my parents, who are ridiculous with that.
01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:24.719
But I also have vaults for focus.
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:29.840
There's my private vault, and then I have um one for our developers.
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:33.519
So for sites that they need access to to work on them.
01:02:33.519 --> 01:02:38.400
I have one for our conductors, which is our sort of traffic manager, project managers.
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:46.239
So they need different levels, and then I have an admin, which is for our admin staff who has access to like bank accounts and things like that.
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:58.320
My goal with the organization of that is that there is nothing mission critical that I'm the only person that can log into.
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:01.360
I'll tell you, guys, this is another little tip right here.
01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:12.559
If you get a text message to your phone with a two-factor code, when you log in, immediately go and change that authentication method to an app.
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:18.239
You can use one password or Bitwarden or whatever to add the code in there.
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:25.039
It makes it easier to log in because the the two-factor code's already in the same thing you're using to grab your password out.
01:03:25.039 --> 01:03:30.559
And it can be transferred to somebody else as opposed to your phone, like we've talked about.
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:36.320
Even if someone had my phone password, who who has a neighbor that's doing that for them, right?
01:03:36.320 --> 01:03:38.800
Like it's it's not somebody that's right there.
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:44.960
So that to me is a big vulnerability if you're getting your two-factor codes on your phone.
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:46.239
Interesting.
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:46.639
All right.
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:48.000
We switched gears here.
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:48.400
Sorry.
01:03:48.400 -->
01:03:51.679
I didn't mean to go down on my soapbox for disaster.
01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:59.679
Look, if there's anyone who, you know, has real world experience with this and has I can tell you're super passionate about this because you went through it.
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:07.039
You went through a life-changing season a few years back through the coma and then getting in getting through it and rebounding.
01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:12.960
So until round five stuff, we're all like, we've we've laid it up for round five for sure.
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:14.880
Let's do it.
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:17.599
I also want to talk about our predictions.
01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:26.719
I wish I told you before we started because I'm going to talk about predictions for the the like what's coming on the okay.
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.480
I hope my audio, I can hear my audio coming through on your end still.
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.519
Can you click audio and click echo cancellation?
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.519
I just changed again because I got an alert on my phone.
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:40.960
Yeah, because echolocation should work pretty well.
01:04:40.960 --> 01:04:42.960
I'm just hoping it doesn't come through on the recording.
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:44.480
Echo location, or we don't know.
01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:46.079
I'm sorry, echo cancellation.
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:48.960
Sorry, we watched we watched Dory recently.
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:51.280
Watch a lot of kids' movies with the kiddos.
01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:52.559
So Okay.
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.719
So that's so much better.
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:57.920
Yeah, it was the I don't have an option for that.
01:04:58.159 --> 01:04:59.039
No kidding.
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:00.400
Well, it's working better now.
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:02.800
Oh, it's because I didn't turn it on before we started.
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:04.239
Ah, okay.
01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:05.599
Well, it's sounded better.
01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:06.880
Can you edit these?
01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:07.679
No.
01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:08.960
Oh boy.
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:10.239
Well, that's gonna be fun for everyone.
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:11.039
Briefly.
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:14.079
I mean, we could we could see my I do have an editor who goes through.
01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:18.000
We we just don't typically chop out, you know, ums and ahs and stuff like that.
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:20.159
But he'll he'll tweak the audio if need be.
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:21.760
So uh predictions.
01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:24.559
Well, I'll I want to hear from the guest first.
01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:27.039
So predictions on what exactly?
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:34.400
I think the entire I think websites are gonna change completely.
01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:46.159
I think we are not right the second, but we're heading in a direction because if you think about early days, like I started I made my first website in 1996.
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:47.760
It was a
text file.
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:52.719
Like I used to type a website, which is bonkers to me.
01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:56.079
Like it's making my gray hair come out even more, right?
01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:57.840
It's uh insane.
01:05:57.840 --> 01:05:59.599
And it was like you'd have a file for each.
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:03.519
Page and they were, you know, little HTML files.
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:09.519
And then we got we used tables to like organize the pages better and style them a bit.
01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:13.199
Then we got eventually we got CSS, other programming languages, all these other things.
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:14.719
WordPress came along, blah, blah, blah.
01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:16.079
So we've got all these things.
01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:17.360
But what is a website now?
01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:19.840
It's still just like, here's one page of things.
01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:22.320
Here's another page of it's still just pages of things.
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:25.760
And I think we're moving with with all of our AI stuff.
01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:30.480
I think, you know, we're getting away from people aren't even searching anymore.
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:31.679
They're asking.
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:34.880
It's it's so personalized and custom.
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:40.320
I just don't think people are gonna go to a site and click around for something.
01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:43.039
I think they're gonna go and ask for what they want.
01:06:43.039 --> 01:06:44.400
That's my opinion.
01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:52.000
I also think before that happens, we are gonna have our a resurgence of the flash years.
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:53.440
Remember Flash?
01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:55.119
Oh, chorus, yeah.
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:56.639
No, Flash.
01:06:57.199 --> 01:06:57.519
Yeah.
01:06:57.519 --> 01:06:59.119
I mean, like the program, right?
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:01.280
Like Oh, I thought you said chorus.
01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:03.039
Okay, so no, I said of chorus.
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:04.000
Yeah, no, yeah, flash.
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:10.800
Which I was bummed because I was getting into Flash and then it became not cool back in like 2010 when I was learning it.
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:13.039
Flash was awesome.
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:19.039
It made the coolest things, but they were completely like not consistent.
01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:23.119
They were all, they were like you a menu would just be floating around somewhere.
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:23.840
You know what I mean?
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:28.239
Like the it was not clear navigation because it wasn't like standard page stuff, right?
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:31.360
It was a it was an interface, it was an experience.
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:33.760
So I think we're gonna have a new flash era.
01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:41.679
That's my current and it's gonna be cool, and it's not always gonna be great because usability is important.
01:07:41.679 --> 01:07:49.280
Anyway, so I think that's what's gonna come first, and then we're gonna get into like we're gonna settle down and we're gonna figure out like what do you need at this site?
01:07:49.280 --> 01:08:05.840
You're either browsing for something, you know, like you want to look at pictures or gallery or testimonials, or you know, if you want to consume something, you want to read something, look at something, or you wanna take an action, you wanna give information in a form, or you want to purchase something, right?
01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:09.760
There's only a handful of real things people want to come to a site for.
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:13.920
And I think using AI as an interface is gonna be a lot better.
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.319
That will be real AI sites, Josh.
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:18.880
I think it's heard it here first.
01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:19.439
Yep.
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:51.119
I'm not just saying this as the founder of uh you know online community called Web Designer Pro, but I actually am going to take the opposite approach, not just to make this a lively little back and forth, but I truly feel like with the internet becoming more and more scattered, there needs to be a home for for your information, a home for a domain authority, a home for sales in in a lot of ways.
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:55.600
Like, yes, I totally I mean, obviously, yes, there it's not it's not even something to debate about.
01:08:55.600 --> 01:09:02.239
Yes, people are asking versus just searching and doing their own research by and large across different industries.
01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:17.279
But I'm wondering there's gonna be so much more distrust built up over the next few years that I think people in order to be able to convert are gonna need to be like at the most trusted point.
01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:23.439
And my question would be yeah, do you trust buying directly from ChatGPT?
01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:26.319
Depending, you know, if it's a ten dollar shirt, sure.
01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:29.279
But for you know, a coaching program.
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:35.760
I'm not talking about I'm just people are still gonna have their own corner of the internet.
01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:40.319
They'll still have a domain name and things like a place where people go.
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:42.319
The world wide web will still exist.
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:44.319
I'm not saying that's gonna go away.
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:48.560
I'm just saying what a website currently is, I think is gonna change.
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:51.279
If that makes sense.
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:56.000
I think having our own corner of the internet is gonna become, like you said, even more important.
01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:00.479
And and being a human being behind it also.
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.640
I had a there's a radio station I just heard.
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:08.880
I don't really listen to the radio in my car usually, but it was like 98.7 guaranteed human.
01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:11.039
I was like, what?
01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:23.840
Yeah, that's where like and and obviously again, another tangent we could go down, but like let's say you your business is primarily on TikTok, and yeah, that that gets banned.
01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:28.880
Obviously, it was banned for like three seconds here, but like what if it does get banned for a much longer duration?
01:10:28.880 --> 01:10:34.399
You're I think it's gonna be just like in the financial world, you want to be a little more diversified.
01:10:34.399 --> 01:10:54.800
Uh, and I am the last person to get financial advice from, but just that that idea, like, I think there is gonna be a even bigger need to be diversified online, but at the core, like, you know, when it comes to all these LLMs looking for the the true information, like the your site is the source of truth, and it is what you have full control over.
01:10:54.800 --> 01:11:00.720
So that to that degree, yes, things are gonna change maybe in those capacities.
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:01.680
I agree for sure.
01:11:01.680 --> 01:11:08.640
But at the core, I still think websites are gonna be, I think, in the next few years, even more important because it is the source of truth.
01:11:08.640 --> 01:11:12.000
It is the source of you that no one else is.
01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:13.760
I think it's still gonna be our data.
01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:18.800
I think it's gonna be our it's gonna be us uh that is that is our website.
01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:21.840
I just think the interface of it is gonna change a bit.
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:25.520
That's my I I agree with you 100% that that's super important.
01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:29.600
Yeah, well it's a little bit like the iPhone, right?
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:31.920
Like or or Android, whatever.
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:34.000
Like what's next?
01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:37.600
Like when's the last time there was a real like innovation?
01:11:37.600 --> 01:11:38.479
You know?
01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:41.279
Like it's like, oh, it gets a better camera every time.
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:45.359
Like it's the camera has been better than we needed for like a decade, right?
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:48.479
Like it's like well, okay, cool.
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:53.439
Uh, you know, a little bit more storage because we can't get rid of any of our photos.
01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:54.399
You know, that's it though.
01:11:54.399 --> 01:11:58.640
It's not like anything new, and I think that's how it's been with the web up until now.
01:11:58.640 --> 01:12:01.840
And some of the things along the way were really revolutionary and exciting.
01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:10.560
And now we're at a point where it's like on websites, it's like everything that is new is super cool, but it also is like, oh, and a security concern.
01:12:10.560 --> 01:12:19.600
You know, it's like there's all these changes and things that it's like, I don't know, I see a big shift coming after our flash extravaganza happens.
01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:20.880
That's first.
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:32.800
Because everybody's got these new tools and they're gonna make wild stuff that is gonna be barely usable, and then eventually it's gonna circle back around to like we're gonna we're gonna have some accessibility again.
01:12:32.800 --> 01:12:33.039
Yeah.
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:34.319
Oh yeah, yeah.
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:36.479
That's my uh it's it's recorded now.
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:37.359
It's out there in the world.
01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:38.159
It's out there.
01:12:38.159 --> 01:12:47.439
I might be completely wrong, but hey, uh if I'm right, maybe years from now is gonna you know chat with their their LLM and be like, what did Stephanie say?
01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:52.319
And Stephanie said this on the home of Josh Hall, his content, joshhall.co.
01:12:52.399 --> 01:12:55.039
So maybe from your parade or something when I'm right.
01:12:55.359 --> 01:12:55.840
Yep.
01:12:55.840 --> 01:13:00.159
Well, until Steph starts uh geek talks or a show too.
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:01.520
Number five.
01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:02.319
Thanks so much, Steph.
01:13:02.319 --> 01:13:02.880
This is fun.
01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:04.640
You're the best, Josh.
01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:07.279
Always a good time chatting with Steph.
01:13:07.279 --> 01:13:09.920
I hope you took some good takeaways from this one, my friends.
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:12.079
Again, some links that were mentioned.
01:13:12.079 --> 01:13:14.800
Go to Josh Hall.co slash focus.
01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:33.199
If you would like to use step 216 for not only handling your support hosting but you can also hire that for eight two of other services slightly under your brand, and I'd like to have DS18 by setting up the focus.
01:13:33.199 --> 01:13:35.199
So dot product code slash focus.
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:43.119
I did talk about the live cohort that is running right now on website 12.
01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:47.119
Last week, digit, is the next start opening.
01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:50.399
Uh last week, we get a webinar for cohort.
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:53.840
This is the window that's not offered, so you need to jump on that.
01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:58.479
Um it's coming up, otherwise after that.
01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:05.279
And then the show notes for this one, my friends, are gonna be exactly notes like 448, along with all the links we've got.
01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:10.640
So I hope you have it after time.
01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:21.840
Either fill your main expansion revenue with however you're using AI today, or we wanna have steps to do the work work for you, and you just a little connected.
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:24.079
Pretty cool.
01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:25.520
I'll