INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Announcer Mick Karch Interview - What was Heyman like in the AWA in late-'80s? Jake Roberts like at indy show Saturday?의 전체 녹취록

00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:57.280 I should have included? 69 00:03:58.319 --> 00:03:59.960 No, I think he covered the goal as soon as 70 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.800 as you said long time, that's pretty much. But as 71 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.360 a matter of fact, you know, it's uh, it's thirty 72 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:09.919 years this summer. It's an even thirty. 73 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:13.199 So yeah, you just turned thirty. Congratulations. How does it 74 00:04:13.240 --> 00:04:14.159 feel to get be getting old? 75 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.720 Whatever? And you know, actually, and I don't know if 76 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.319 we talked about this before, my first television appearance, actually 77 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:27.399 on an Awa show, was to plug a supervention that 78 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.000 George Shire and I were doing in summer nineteen eighty four. 79 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.319 And as it turns out, part of the angle, if 80 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:38.720 you will, for our interview to put our convention over, 81 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.160 was Jesse Ventura did a walk on. At the interview, 82 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.199 Ken Resnick was talking to us putting over the event, 83 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:49.040 and Jesse did a walk on and did his usual 84 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:50.800 and you know, give all the awards to me and 85 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:53.040 so on and so forth. And that was Jesse's last 86 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:54.759 interview ever in the AWA. 87 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.360 Really yeah, yeah, that's good trivia. 88 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.480 As so, I chill not only another territory, but I 89 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.800 build a guy's career in the AWA. But yeah, that 90 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:08.040 was it. He left. I think the next day he 91 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:10.399 submitted his resignation to Burn So. 92 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.519 Wow, yeah, yeah, that's cool. I thought I had heard 93 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.480 it all from you, but that's a new one. Yeah, yeah, cool. Well, 94 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:20.000 I want to let listeners know we're gonna be all 95 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:21.720 over the place today and if you do want to 96 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.600 talk current events, we can talk about John Cena against 97 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.120 brock Lesner, the follow up on Raw. On Monday, I 98 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.279 talked to Jason Paul about this. On Tuesday, Bruce Mitchell, 99 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:33.959 senior columnist for prosing Torch Newsletter, did a one hour 100 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:36.319 plus audio show with me last night, which we posted 101 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:41.439 dedicated almost entirely to in depth analysis of Raw on 102 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:45.759 Monday and with a focus on Roman Reigns and Sina Lesner, 103 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.279 which I'll be talking to mccarsh about on this show too. 104 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:50.040 So you're open to call up if you have specific 105 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.279 questions for Mick carsh. You can call if you don't 106 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:54.600 want to. If you're listening to us live, but for 107 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.000 any reason you can't participate on the phone, you are 108 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.079 welcome to email us. Also in that email address is 109 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:05.439 p W Torch Live Cast at gmail dot com. That 110 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.199 is PW Torchlivecast at gmail dot com. I want to 111 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.879 remind people real quick that the PW Torch Live Cast 112 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.120 is brought to you by Audible, a leading performer. 113 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:15.560 Check out the entire list. 114 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.240 Audibletrial dot com, slash Pro Wrestling Torch. We have some 115 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.720 new sponsors coming on board next week for the fall season, 116 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.199 so y'all can look forward to some other cool deals 117 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:27.079 that we'll be offering next week. Mick Carsh, you've been 118 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.000 on the show multiple times. It's always a blast. We 119 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:31.839 never know where we're headed when we start or where 120 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:33.680 we'll finish. I kind of loosened the tie a little 121 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:35.040 bit because you and I have known each other so 122 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:37.439 long and we kind of see where things go. One 123 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:39.439 thing in particular, I want to start with because I 124 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.079 want to make sure we have time for this, because 125 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:42.439 every time I've had you on, I've said I want 126 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.240 to talk about indie wrestling, and we talk a lot 127 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.199 about you know, brock Lesnor, John Cena, Roman Range, Wdwevensctmatrablht 128 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:53.720 and a Roh sometimes, But indie wrestling has been such 129 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:57.839 a big part of your life, a bigger part than me. 130 00:06:57.959 --> 00:06:59.319 But I've been to a lot of indies shows over 131 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.600 the years. Was I went to a couple this summer, 132 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.279 the ROH Show and then the community show in Hopkins 133 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:09.240 next week by still the main wrestling, and it goes 134 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.720 all the way back to the mid to late eighties 135 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.680 out at Roper's and George's and Fridley with the emergence 136 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:18.000 of Sean Waltman and Jerry Lynn. Do you remember your 137 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:20.639 first indie show as a fan that you attended a 138 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:24.360 non you know, a w a show basically, I guess. 139 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.040 As you know, it's really interesting. I don't

remember going 140 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:31.639 to an indie show as a fan. It's like all 141 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.000 of a sudden there's the indie shows, which I knew about. 142 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:38.480 I'd heard about him, hadn't attended Annie. And then the 143 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.639 late Ray Webby called up and he said, you know, 144 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:45.480 Eddie Sharky runs some stuff around town, and he says, 145 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.399 you want to come down. Eddie's looking for a couple 146 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:49.519 of guys to do. We're going to tape this for TV. 147 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:52.319 And you know, I kind of jumped right in so 148 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.759 as a fan, I truly, I mean, it sounds ridiculous. 149 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.199 I don't remember actually attending an indie show before I 150 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:01.360 actually sat down at the announced table. 151 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:03.759 And you know, it's funny. I grew up watching the 152 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:08.680 AWA here in Minneapolis Saint Paul, and I saw the dates, 153 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:11.800 you know, in the cities for all these shows that 154 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.160 weren't on a Sunday night at the St. Fallcivic Center, 155 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:15.600 and they were all you know, a lot of them 156 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:18.600 were driving distance from my house. But it didn't click 157 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:20.439 with me as a kid, you know, before I got 158 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.959 my driver's license to try to go to these shows, 159 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:24.839 the smaller shows that the a w A Would run 160 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.160 on a more regular basis, just outside of the Twin Cities, 161 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:29.600 they were there weren't a lot, right in town, right, Mick, 162 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.639 But just outside of the cities, the A w A 163 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.200 would run some that were driving distance. 164 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:38.360 Yeah, and Roger Kamp and Alda RuSHA actually promoted a 165 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:40.279 lot of the you know, back at what they call 166 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.360 the spot shows. Yep, but you know, it would literally 167 00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:46.159 go all over the state, not only in Minnesota, but 168 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.639 of course they'd go into into the Dakotas and into 169 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.879 Iowa and Wisconsin. And there were a ton of them. 170 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.000 I mean, I look back on some of the results 171 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.919 that I have and anywhere from man Cato to Cottage 172 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.840 Grove to New Home, there seemed like there was always 173 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.080 AWA Spots show going on at some high school gymnasium 174 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:10.639 or junior high or some fundraiser. And again, amazingly, I 175 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:13.720 think I went to one of those eight WA Spots 176 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:19.840 shows back probably nineteen sixty nine ish at Stnglewis Park 177 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:23.600 High School. And I don't remember going on the road 178 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:25.559 for any of those other shows. I know, you, your 179 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:28.840 former co host George Shire went to a lot of them, 180 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:31.639 rode around with Marty O'Neill, But I didn't go to 181 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:33.799 the spot shows. I mean I basically stayed in the 182 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.120 Twin Cities and went to the Minneapolis and Saint Paul editoriums, 183 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.759 and of course all the TV tapings. You know, I 184 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:42.759 probably missed you know, five or six you know, in 185 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:47.240 the sixties and the seventies from her TV. So yeah, 186 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:49.840 but the AWA, they were busy all the time, even 187 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:52.440 if they weren't running the big house shows in the 188 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:53.120 Twin Cities. 189 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.679 I don't are you on Twitter much? Mic, I'm not. Okay, 190 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:56.919 I'm not. 191 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:01.320 I've got a Twitter account and but I haven't used 192 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:01.879 it very much. 193 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:02.000 No. 194 00:10:02.519 --> 00:10:05.039 The reason I ask is one of your contemporaries, Patrick 195 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.480 Roycie signed up for Twitter. And there's nobody on my 196 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:11.159 feet who I see more often than him. He has 197 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.200 just completely fallen in love with the technology and the Twitter. 198 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:17.480 It's Andy and he's just you know, he has vinted 199 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.399 pat racing. For those who aren't local here, he's a 200 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:21.759 I think an award winning but I know he's a 201 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:25.159 sports writer. He is just a phenomenal talent. I was 202 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.840 just on his show for what what reason was it? 203 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.039 What we're talking about? Maybe brock lesternt Resumini or something 204 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.360 earlier this year and uh, just in you know, an 205 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.519 institution and and he's on Twitter just being a smart 206 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:36.840 ass all the time, you know, I mean just you know, 207 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:39.639 he's going back and forth with people on Twitter and 208 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.159 you know, being you know, his normal kind of edgy self. 209 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.440 And and the other day he just made a reference 210 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:48.080 to the A W A t V tapings at was it? 211 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:48.360 Uh? 212 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.480 Was it Channel eleven studios? W was it WCN?

Were 213 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.039 those of letters back then? Yeah? 214 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:54.519 It was. 215 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.919 It was WT in the sixties when I was going 216 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:01.919 as the TV. Yeah, yeah, Calhoun beach manor right across 217 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.879 the street from Lake Calhoun. And then they moved out 218 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.559 to the studios in Golden Valley for a while on 219 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:10.919 the Carol Levan Studios, and then from there it was 220 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.759 kind of like all over the place, Brooklyn Center, Brooklyn Park. 221 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.240 But when those of us who go back that far 222 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.000 talk about the old studio days, and you know, I'll 223 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.159 catch up with some old timers and they'll say, hey, 224 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.559 I remember you don't want crusher and Mad Doug had 225 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.480 that studio brawl or whatever that primarily took place at 226 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.759 the WTC and studios at Lake Calhoun or across from 227 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:32.360 the Lake Calhoun. 228 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.559 Yeah, his reference was something about it it being the 229 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.279 most significant thing that happened at that building compared to 230 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:40.399 something else, that someone had said something else. I don't know. 231 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:41.759 I'm trying to find it on Twitter. I wish I 232 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:43.080 had pulled that up. I was just thinking about it 233 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.960 talking to you that when you talk about those TV tapings, Mick, 234 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.879 I am jealous. I would love to have gone. I mean, 235 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:51.399 I'd love to have gone to so many more shows 236 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:54.960 because I came in for my view of history at 237 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:59.759 the tail end of what would be considered vintage AWA. Yeah. 238 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.240 I got to see Ernngani's retirement match that was my 239 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.519 first live event in nineteen eighty one against Nick Bockwinkel. 240 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:07.200 I got to see Bobby Heenan in his prime. I 241 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.840 got to see a young Kurt Henning last ten minutes 242 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:11.960 with Adrian Adonis, which meant that Larry the Acts got 243 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.840 to beat him up for a few minutes afterwards. I got 244 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.519 to see Crusher in a pose down at age you know, 245 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:18.600 I don't know if he was sixty yet, but in 246 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:20.320 a posed down with Jesse the body venture at the 247 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.399 peak of his physical performance, and of course the fans 248 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.440 got to decide the winner, which upset

Jesse because you know, 249 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:28.080 Crusher one. So I got to see, you know, a 250 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.639 lot of vintage names, but it really was kind of 251 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:32.919 the end. And then came the Hogan era, and then 252 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:35.799 the Road Warrior era, and then whatever the hell the 253 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.639 end of it was the Rochester era. But you got 254 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.080 to see so much of vintage AWA and as say, 255 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:44.759 when you say you went to all but one or 256 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:48.519 two TV tapings, I mean, what there's It's such a 257 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.519 different experience, Mick, what you got to experience as a 258 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.759 fan versus And I'm not saying one is better than 259 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:57.360 the other, because That's not what I'm here to do 260 00:12:57.399 --> 00:12:59.679 in this moment. But it's just an entirely different experience 261 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:01.720 than people to just watched rivaly week and watch the 262 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.039 network and maybe once a year go to a house show. 263 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.279 Well, you know, the TV studio format itself, I mean 264 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:10.840 it's so foreign to people. You know, if they look 265 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.759 at the TV studio match now, you know where there's 266 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:15.679 one hundred, one hundred and fifty people in the building, 267 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:17.600 They're going to look at it and say, what is this? 268 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.679 You know, where's the seventeen thousand people with signs all 269 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:25.399 over the place and the pyros and everything else. As 270 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.720 I look back on it, way that was, without a doubt, 271 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.320 the greatest memories for me, or those were the greatest memories, 272 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.960 probably from the mid sixties up until you know, probably 273 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:42.720 the mid seventies, late seventies, before the AWA had their 274 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.399 big boom, you know, with the Hogan era at the 275 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:49.399 Saint Paul Civic Center. Yeah, because I mean, I hate 276 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.159 to say it, this is my social life as a teenager, 277 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.559 but I would go down my whole Saturday and this 278 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:00.039 would be you know, maybe weekly, maybe bi weekly. It 279 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.559 would start downtown at the Diakman Hotel, which is where 280 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:05.639 the wrestling office was, and wait for the wrestlers to 281 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:08.080 come in and get their itinerary and their paychecks and 282 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.360 whatever else. Then you take the bus out to the 283 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.039 TV studios at

Lake Calhoun, go to the studio matches 284 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.440 which were live from sixty seven thirty. And then right 285 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.279 after that you get in the car and you go 286 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.159 down to the Mattresses to Minneapolis or Saint Paul Auditorium, 287 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.200 you know, same night. And it was so great, and 288 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.759 there's so many incredible phenomenal memories. And I mean I'm 289 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.840 going back to you know, the mad Dog Vashon era, 290 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.679 Cowboy Bill Watts, I mean Luthez, I mean seeing Luthez, 291 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:41.279 you know, in a TV squash match against a guy 292 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:45.360 in nineteen sixty seven, Killer Kowalski, I mean, the real 293 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.519 the legends, And it was so great. It was so 294 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:51.480 intimate in that studio, and of course after the matches 295 00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.120 the guys would go over to this interview backdrop and 296 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:57.919 do their live promos in the studio without Q cards, 297 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:01.320 you know, without telepropters or anything else, and there were 298 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.559 so many angles in the studio. It was just it 299 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.480 was just great. And you know what, when did it change? 300 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:12.279 I think once the AWA got out of the care 301 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.480 eleven studio and once they started doing you know, the 302 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:19.559 crap with the Team Challenge series and everything else. I 303 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.000 mean that that pretty much nail in the coffin. 304 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:27.360 Yes, yes, do you have? Is there a moment in 305 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:31.080 a w A history that that is the definitive transition 306 00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:36.440 from the golden years to whatever the next era would be? 307 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:36.639 Like? 308 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:38.480 Is there a moment in time or a show or 309 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.720 a wrestler arriving or leaving or retiring that does it? 310 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.399 Was it Vern's retirement or something else earlier or later? 311 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:47.480 I don't think it was Vern's retirement because the AWA 312 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:49.840 still had some some good years left in them. 313 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:53.960 Yeah, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the 314 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.440 next level with a VP membership. Get shows like this 315 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.799 the Way Keller Prosing Podcast, Weightkeller Prosing Post Show, and 316 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:03.039 the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP 317 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:06.519 podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows 318 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.840 for a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP 319 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.639 exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, 320 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:14.799 Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin 321 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.200 signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership, 322 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.919 So go VIP here in twenty twenty two and enjoy 323 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.080 all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad 324 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:28.399 free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go VIP. 325 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.720 Well, I'm sorry, mack. Let me interjectcause I don't mean 326 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.480 like that they had that they didn't have success after 327 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:39.919 the end of the Golden Era. I guess I kind 328 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.080 of mean like, is there in your mind a point 329 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:44.759 where the AWA stop. It could have still been successful 330 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.919 for another year or five years, but was there a 331 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.919 point where it didn't feel like the AW Because to me, 332 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.720 in May of eighty one, I think that AWA that 333 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:56.480 I saw wasn't as different from the AWA in nineteen 334 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.159 seventy five as AWAB came in nineteen eighty seven. If 335 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:00.279 you get TWI drift on that. 336 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.039 And you know, nineteen eighty seven, believe it or not, 337 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.559 might be the cutoff point, okay, because in nineteen eighty 338 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:09.680 six you're still doing wrestle Rock, you know, and you 339 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.200 still got that loaded lineup in Stan Hansen and Nick 340 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:17.599 and everybody else. Nineteen eighty seven, you know, I should 341 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.759 back that. Where it changed for me is when they 342 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:25.799 started doing this stuff out in Atlantic City, you know, Larry, 343 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.680 and they go to the Tropicana. Yeah, back to me, 344 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.160 all of a sudden, this isn't this isn't AWA anymore, 345 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.440 because you're trying to compete with Vince on the glitz 346 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.039 and glamour level and showcase. You know, we're we're in 347 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.759 a big city. We're in Atlantic City or whatever. So 348 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.039 the small studio feel was gone. You know the fact 349 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.359 that everything seemed to be taped more for a national 350 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:55.160 market than your localized market. And you know, you could 351 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.599 go right down to the arena after the TV and 352 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:04.279 see the stuff. Lives felt so so generic, almost so 353

00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.359 I think that that for me, that really changed it 354 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.680 because to me, the AWA you know, it was a 355 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.119 big promotion, but it was our promotion, it was mine promotion. 356 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.519 And then all of a sudden, you know you're on this, 357 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.079 on this national stage. And I mean funny, I mean 358 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.839 I got in when it was the national stage in 359 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.480 Las Vegas. But still for me, it's melancholy about the 360 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.799 days prior to that. So that might have been to 361 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:33.359 me the definitive moment when yeah, this isn't TAWA I 362 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:33.960 grew up on. 363 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.559 I think that's perfect. I didn't know what the answer 364 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.640 would be, but that is exactly the perfect answer. It's when, yeah, 365 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.799 I think that matches up for me too. The first 366 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.319 Sunday you tune in and it's not in this you know, 367 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.640 I don't. They didn't. Did they advertise on television or 368 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.480 mentioned on TV where they were with a TV or 369 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.319 did they try to keep that on the lowdown for 370 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:54.440 people outside of the Minneapol Saint Paul market who thought 371 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:55.640 they were seeing local wrestling. 372 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:56.559 All are you. 373 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.000 Talking about when they went to the national stage. 374 00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.480 No before when they were just taping in Minnesota. Basically, 375 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:06.200 did they did they mention nationally that they were in Minnesota, 376 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.960 did they try to just kind of keep that quiet 377 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:10.119 for people who outside who thought the AWA was their 378 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:11.799 home market, even if it wasn't Minneapoli Saint Paul. 379 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.279 Yeah, I mean you got to remember, they would they 380 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.000 would take their matches were for national distribution, but they 381 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.000 would go in and spend a whole day, seventeen eighteen 382 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.720 hours taping promos for the individual markets. So if you're 383 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:27.720 in Green Bay or Chicago or whatever else, you know, 384 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:31.680 it's still had sort of that this is our own feel. 385 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.119 I don't believe, and I could be wrong. I don't 386 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.400 think that they made a point of saying, hey, we're 387 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:39.119 taping in Minneapolis. Yeah. 388 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:39.960 I don't think so either. 389 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.599 I don't think that they alluded to that, and that's 390 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.119 probably a better thing. But yeah, so yeah, I mean 391 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.680 it still had the feel that it was your own hometown. 392 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.799 Because remember, I mean as often as they were running 393 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.960 in Minneapolis, they were running that same circuit. They were 394 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.400 going to Chicago, they were going to Green Bay, going 395 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:05.440 to Rockford, Milwaukee, Denver, kind of on the same rotation 396 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.640 that they were doing Minneapolis. So everybody showed, yeah, they're 397 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.279 coming back in four weeks they're coming back in five weeks, 398 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.599 so it still had the this is our own feel 399 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:15.920 to it. 400 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:19.079 Yeah, and yeah, that transition the first time because people 401 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:21.920 I hope a WA. I'm asking four questions at once here. 402 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.599 I hope the AWA. When it gets on WWE network, 403 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.039 we get to see some of the and I don't 404 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:28.440 know how many are out there, but some of the 405 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.079 shows that are before the national, before they took the 406 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.559 TV outside of Minnesota, you know, taped, and I don't 407 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:36.799 know how much of that exists in terms of complete shows, Mike, 408 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.240 do you have an idea outside of you know, snippets 409 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:41.160 on bootleg DVDs and tapes out there? 410 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:43.839 You know what. I don't knows that there's that much 411 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:46.279 out there, to be honest with you. And the story 412 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.839 that I get, Wade is especially in the sixties, and 413 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.799 I would just kill to get the stuff, especially Field 414 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.240 Studio stuff from the nineteen sixties, the angles that they 415 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:00.440 did went when Dick Fire was in his Doctor X everything. 416 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:03.400 My understanding is that back in the day, they would 417 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.559 tape and then they would tape over, they would tape 418 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.880 over the tape, they would they would lasted, they get 419 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.319 rid of it. So a lot of that stuff. I 420 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.119 would have to say most of it, at least from 421 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:16.119 the sixties is gone. 422 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:21.440 Oh yeah, yeah, it's too bad. We'll shift off the 423 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.759 A w A after this. Top this last topic here, 424 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.559 But if WWE does introduce a lot of A w 425

00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:30.079 A footage on the network, would you want to be 426 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.079 part of being flown in to do some wrap rounds 427 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:35.559 or roundtables and discuss stuff like is that? Is that 428 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:38.079 something that if you were invited or that you would 429 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.240 want to participate in and be able to because there's 430 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.680 very few people who have the ability to speak like 431 00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:46.240 you do, who also follow the A w A beginning 432 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.680 to end and have such great memories of of all 433 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.680 those prime yeers. 434 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.880 I would love to I mean, yeah, obviously I said 435 00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:55.680 no to the WWF once before. 436 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:57.720 Yeah, yeah, so. 437 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:00.799 I certainly would love to do it. I guess is 438 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.240 that I would think that a lot of the stuff 439 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.839 they're gonna show is probably late seventies and on up, 440 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.200 and a lot of eighties stuff, yeah, because I just 441 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.559 don't think that sixty stuff is out there. But you know, 442 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:16.000 to get to the point of your question, sure, I'd 443 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.640 love to sit and talk about my memories of it. 444 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.240 Yeah, that'd be a lot of fun. I hope they 445 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:23.279 do have at least I'd love to see complete TV 446 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:26.079 shows from the late seventies, and I know they're out 447 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:28.200 there in terms of people who had the first generation 448 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:31.599 of VCRs, but it'd be great to great to see 449 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:33.599 them in order. And I think people would be shocked 450 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:36.880 at how different a TV show starts off. You know, 451 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.000 no Piro, you know, no Fancy. I mean there was 452 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.160 the intro music, which is just awesome, you know, the 453 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.799 AWA intro music with all the countries being named. But 454 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:48.240 then yeah, I mean it's just it's to the ring 455 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.160 ding ding ding, squash match interview, squash match interview. But 456 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.319 it was great. I mean, it absolutely worked for its 457 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.839 moment in time, and there's things about it that would 458 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:59.480 work today. But let's transition to today's indie scene, because 459 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:01.680 it's all kind of started branching off for me talking 460 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.079 about spot shows that AWA would run, and now that 461 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.680 there aren't home territories that run full time, indie wrestling 462 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.160 has become a bigger deal. But to your knowledge, how 463 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.559 what was was there indie wrestling in the sixties and 464 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.039 seventies and even early eighties, and how does it compare 465 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.039 and how has it evolved over time as the national 466 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.920 companies and national cable and papers, you have kind of 467 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:23.359 changed the way fans look at wrestling. 468 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:26.400 You know, I know that there were some indie shows 469 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:32.880 going way back when the indie wrestling, to my knowledge, exploded. 470 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.839 Of course, when when WWE WWF went national, then all 471 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.400 of a sudden, everybody wants to be a wrestler. Everybody's 472 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:45.000 running shows. I mean, my earliest recollections in the Twin 473 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:47.839 Cities of the indie shows are the Eddie Sharki shows. 474 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.559 And this is you know, even before I came on 475 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.519 board with Eddie, which was nineteen eighty five, I know 476 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.799 he had been running shows already at the place like 477 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.920 the Viking Gym, which is in Northeast Minia listen, and 478 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.319 then you know, some of the night spots around town. 479 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.720 But I mean, I think you can look back in 480 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.039 time and there's a pretty clear definitive time when all 481 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.039 this really started. And again that's when wrestling started. Booman 482 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.160 now all of a sudden, and even back in the 483 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.799 SNR days, you know, and we're going back only twenty 484 00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:23.720 five years. And I say that because in the scheme 485 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:26.359 of things, you know, back you know, Vince started his 486 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.400 explosion in eighty three eighty four. But back in when 487 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.440 I was doing SNR, there were a couple of indie 488 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.079 promotions in the state of Minnesota. I know that Jim 489 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:39.680 Mitchell ran one the NCWA, there was a couple other guys, 490 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:43.759 and of course Sharky's. But since that time, I mean, 491 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:47.279 you look, oh my god, everybody. I don't know how 492 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:49.839 many specific promotions there are just in the state of 493 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.000 Minnesota right now, but I can't think of too many 494 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.440 Saturdays where you can't watch wrestling someplace, whether it's in 495 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.920 Crystal or in

Mora, or somebody's running a show. And 496 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.119 you know that's just here in the state of Minnesota. 497 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.759 You go to some of these other places you know 498 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.359 that I hear about, you know, like Chicago. I talked 499 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.680 to Sean Waltman, you know, last Saturday night, and Shawn's 500 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.519 living in Philly right now, and he says there's so 501 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:17.039 many shows out there for him every week. So this 502 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:20.839 is why I've said that indie wrestling is the real 503 00:25:20.920 --> 00:25:25.279 pro wrestling in the United States. You know, WW and 504 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.519 DNA are kind of you know, apparitions, if you will, 505 00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:33.400 because the grassroots wrestling, you know, in fifteen before fifteen 506 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.960 hundred four hundred people. Is what's really going on each 507 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.519 and every week someplace. 508 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.160 Mick, I want to take just a moment to mention 509 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.759 a couple in house notes, and then I want to 510 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:45.400 take a couple of phone calls and people I hope 511 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.079 for a while, and then I want to get back 512 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.039 and delve more into indie wrestling in this discussion. But 513 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.880 that's set the table nicely for that. We are running 514 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.960 a sale right now for peterle Torch b Ip. If 515 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.720 you all right, let's shift to phone calls. We have 516 00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:02.119 a local caller and since Mick, we're Minnesotans, let's kick 517 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.319 off the callers on today's show with a Minnesotan. I 518 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.680 believe this is Brian from Bloomington. Brian, is that you? 519 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:12.279 It is indeed excellent. What have you got for micking 520 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:13.400 me today? 521 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.720 I had two questions. One was about Blackweesner, which I 522 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.559 heard you talking about, and the occurrence in the mine 523 00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:22.559 event with John sein is kind of getting back some 524 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.960 of the thunder, if you will, and my sense of 525 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:28.920 being in WW that they're afraid of having a empire 526 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:34.200 strikes back time period in where the bad guy is 527 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:36.759 on top. And for a lot of my friends who 528 00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:39.519 love star Wars their favorite one because of course the 529 00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:42.640 second one in the first villogy, because the heroes are 530 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:44.480 on the edge of the cliff with the knife at 531 00:26:44.519 -->

00:26:46.720 their throat, napped up out with the bad guy and 532 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.880 WWS so afraid to do that? Have that ever happened 533 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:52.039 to build that and pick a patient? I need one 534 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.200 of the other guys with thoughts on that. 535 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.440 I saw you in your email when you told me 536 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.359 the topic you're calling about. You said, Empire strikes back, 537 00:26:57.400 --> 00:26:59.440 and I'm like, what, why are we talking? 538 00:26:59.559 --> 00:26:59.960 Why? Why? 539 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.319 John? How about that's perfect? That's a great analogy, Mick. 540 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.680 I know you're up to speed on things on Raw Monday. 541 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.039 We've been talking about it all week on the live cast, 542 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.160 John Cena after taking last week off but only eight 543 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:16.720 days after this brutal beating from brock Lesner, is seems fine. 544 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.240 He's one hundred percent ready for a rematch, bring it on. 545 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.880 And I sort of felt that took and then he 546 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.000 wrestled not one but two matches and dominated. I felt 547 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.000 like that took something away from what was I thought 548 00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.400 just a historically monumental and excellent world title match at 549 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.200 Summer Slam so different from the norm. What were your 550 00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:38.480 thoughts on Sina Lesner at SummerSlam and then the follow 551 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.319 up on Ron Monday. 552 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.319 I couldn't agree with you more Wade. I mean, you 553 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.680 absolutely echoed exactly what I was thinking. First of all, 554 00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:48.319 the build up to the match I thought was terrific. 555 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.640 The promos that they were giving, especially Lesner, were off 556 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.440 the charts. The match itself again very historic. I mean 557 00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.359 I call it. You know, you got a championship match 558 00:27:59.440 --> 00:27:59.880 that base. 559 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:00.640 He was a. 560 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:05.680 Squash And to me, Sena not only should not have 561 00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.960 come back and looked so strong eight days later after 562 00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.559 getting the beating of his life. I think John Cena 563 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:13.960 should have taken time off. I should have They should 564 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.400 have kept him hidden for a while. And I agree 565 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.839 with you completely. It took a lot of the steam 566 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:22.279 out of this. I just think that there was so 567 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.720 much potential. You know, if if you know, you don't 568 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:27.720 hear from John John Cena for a while, we don't 569 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:29.960 know where he is, we don't know how he's feeling 570 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.000 after this this beating from Brock. Lesner comes back eight 571 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:34.960 days later, and as you said, not only did he 572 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.279 look strong, he looked super strong, I mean, and in 573 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.839 a sense I mean, poor poor Bray Wyatt, you know, 574 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.119 was in a very process. I just I did not 575 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.799 understand the reasoning behind that at all. I figured, if 576 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:51.720 you're going to have another the rubber match between you know, 577 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:54.319 Sena and Lessner, give it a while, give it six months, 578 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.000 give it three months, whatever, to come right back for 579 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.079 the next pay per view makes no sense to me 580 00:28:59.119 --> 00:28:59.400 at all. 581 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:02.960 I haven't floated this theory yet, but Brian, I'll put 582 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.880 this out there because I think what you said is 583 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:06.880 kind of what I've been saying and thinking that that 584 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.559 WWE is scared to have John Cena fans not being 585 00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.759 able to sleep at night because they're worried about John Cena. 586 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.799 So let's just bring Sena back. Everything is happy, rosie cheeks, 587 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.960 smiley faces, and all is well in the world. Again. 588 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.440 Please keep watching our show. It's a feel good program. Okay. Yeah, 589 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.359 so they're probably afraid of kind of a yeah an 590 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.440 empire strikes back period. But I wonder if they didn't 591 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.160 look at the data for SummerSlam and see that it 592 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.880 was the best numbers they've done since WrestleMania, and they 593 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.640 felt like there was a lot of interest in that match. 594 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.039 But the network launched what was at the end of February, 595 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:45.039 so March, April, May, June, July, August. That puts us 596 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.240 right now in a key stretch of time. This is 597 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:51.680 a series of weeks, just a handful of weeks, that 598 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:54.000 accounts for ninety percent of their subscribers. They just haven't 599 00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.400 had a lot of sign ups since. Obviously their market, 600 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.720 the target market said oh, WrestleMania thirty. All I have 601 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.160 to do is pay ten bucks a month for six months. 602 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.519 I'm in. There

weren't a lot of people left. You know, 603 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:05.039 if you weren't going to take advantage of that, you're 604 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:06.880 probably not going to decide to sign up two months later. 605 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:09.039 It's going to be slower growth from there. But if 606 00:30:09.079 --> 00:30:12.160 they had a surge in subscriptions and their internal data, 607 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:15.319 said Sina Lesnar, people went bonkers for it. They went nuts. 608 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:17.519 We had huge viewership on the network. I wonder if 609 00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.319 they didn't sacrifice a lot of the common sense things. 610 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:22.960 Brian you're saying, Mick, you're saying, and go, and Vince 611 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:27.200 just impulsive. Vince just said, screw it, we need these 612 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:29.559 people saw the first match. They're going to be intrigued 613 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.279 by the rematch. We can't afford to wait. We need 614 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.000 to just do the rematch. Now. Let's send Sena out there, 615 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:38.160 Let's give his fans and give his fans a feeling 616 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.319 that he's in good shape and ready for another fight. 617 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:42.640 And let's get all these people who subs are dropping 618 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.480 that we're sending emails to. Let's get them excited about 619 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:47.119 the rematch and get them back on board right away. 620 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:51.279 We can't delay. I'm wondering if that isn't as it 621 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:54.559 might be the most simple explanation the first Sena Lesner 622 00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:56.240 did so well, Vince wanted to go right back to 623 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:57.680 it because subs are dropping off and he wants to 624 00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:00.960 get those people back. Does that, Mick, as that business 625 00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.960 wise justifiable to you? If that is what happens, And 626 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.200 does that even seem plausible to you? 627 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:07.039 Well, I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if that was 628 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.240 the reasoning. You know, if they saw the numbers and 629 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.880 what have you. The problem that I have with this 630 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.200 weight is twofold. First of all, even if you're going 631 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.000 to bring back Sena Lesner, have a little intrigue, have 632 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:23.640 at least a little bit of time in between. Whereas 633 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.440 as I said, earlier, John Cena is licking his wounds, 634 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.880 whatever the case may be. The other problem that I 635 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:33.880 have with it is what the total ass kicking that 636 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.720 Sina took at the pay per view was that ever 637 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.759 really addressed by John Cena when he came back out. 638 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:45.039 You know, I had a horrible night. I let people down, 639 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:50.880 you know, I I just it was like it wasn't 640 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:54.079 even touched on. And you know, here's Sena's governance saying, 641 00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:56.880 you know, I want my rematch, and you know, let's 642 00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:58.599 do it again, and I'm going to be stronger. But 643 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.079 there was no real explanation that I could kill for 644 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.079 the beating of a lifetime on a pay per view 645 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.799 main event. To my dollarge, there has never been anything 646 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.000 like it. You know, think it back where a champion, 647 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:17.000 especially at Johnson, was so totally dominated and there was 648 00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:20.960 no explanation. I understand rock Lesnar is the beast. I 649 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.640 understand that that's what they're pushing, but again, you would 650 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:32.279 think Sina would address it somehow. 651 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.079 Be longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to 652 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:40.000 learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Pass cast 653 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.599 every Friday on the PW Torch. Daly cast Feed, Alex 654 00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.440 and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past 655 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:49.839 by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week, 656 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:53.519 follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 657 00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.759 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 658 00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.279 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's then these 659 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.680 pass casts every Friday on the PW Towards Daily cast Feed. 660 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:19.279 We're all that's the way you see it or not. 661 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:21.559 No, it is, and we're all on the same page. 662 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.440 And we're also frustrated because you know you to me, 663 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.079 wrestling is I mean not wrestling is a larger audience 664 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:29.480 than the analogy I'm going to give. But there's a 665 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:33.119 lot of authors who write mystery novels or books where 666 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.000 the same character is in each book. You know, and 667 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.880 and and there'll be an author and they have a following, 668 00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:41.319 and you want when you write that book, if you 669 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:44.039 put your lead character, the lead hero, the baby face 670 00:33:44.119 --> 00:33:47.759 in jeopardy, you want you want to flip to the 671 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:51.720 next chapter and

have that hero address the jeopardy that 672 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.880 they're in and acknowledge it and then give you a 673 00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.759 reason for hope, give you a reason to believe that 674 00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:00.000 they can come back from this predicament, this this new enemy, 675 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.880 or if you watched the Dexter series, there's signs where 676 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:03.519 it looks like he's gonna be exposed, he's gonna be 677 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:06.279 caught not you know, or this guy's gonna kill him, 678 00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:08.519 he's not gonna get to him first. Whatever. Just it's 679 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:12.480 it's it permeates all of scripted drama and pro wrestling 680 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:16.360 is in essence that and people can give comic book 681 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:19.760 examples and movie examples and all that. We skip like 682 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.920 three chapters, Mick, because I've pulled on my report just 683 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:24.800 to refresh my memory a little bit as you were 684 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.920 talking saying you know what did seem to say? And 685 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:28.679 all he did is he walked out he had to 686 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:30.800 never give up T shirt, which is fine, you know 687 00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:33.800 rab ross Felt t shirts. It's a good message. And 688 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.480 then he interacted a little bit with the Three Legends, 689 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.039 and then all he did is say I don't plan 690 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:40.079 to take that being again because I'm gonna kick brock 691 00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:42.559 Lesner's ass, and he dropped the mic and left, like, 692 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.119 make you're one hundred percent right. It's a long winding 693 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:46.920 road to me saying you one hundred percent right? Where 694 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:51.159 in there is John CeNAT acknowledging that he took a 695 00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:54.199 beating that he has not even close to ever taken before. 696 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.320 And Mick, do you remember any and I've been have 697 00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:59.440 this in my notes task you was there ever a 698 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.360 world title match that you know of in the AWA 699 00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:04.639 or otherwise where a promoter and a booker decided to 700 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:08.199 take this route where the champion lost the title and 701 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:10.480 took a beating in a way that made it look 702 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:13.679 like it was a man against the child, and and 703 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:16.880 that the hero had almost no hope of ever beating 704 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:19.159 that heel, and then they told the story for a comeback. 705 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.079 Is is anything come to mind that even comes close 706 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:21.280 to this? 707 00:35:21.840

--> 00:35:26.559 No, absolutely not. I don't remember anything anything like that, 708 00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.320 and especially I mean I'm thinking going way back, but 709 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.119 especially in the modern era, you know, I mean, it 710 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.719 just it makes no sense. And talking about Sena coming 711 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.599 out with his explanation, relax thereof the Seina said more 712 00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.559 prior to the match about how brock Lesner was a 713 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:48.679 beast and how he knew he was in for an 714 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:53.119 ass kicking and hyping the match than he did afterward 715 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:56.719 when he actually got the ass kicking. And I mean, 716 00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:59.760 to me, it's a perfect opportunity again for Sina to say, 717 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:03.719 I let the see nation down. Brock Lessener is every 718 00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:06.599 bit as great as as I thought he was gonna be. 719 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.440 And whatever the case may be. And on. You know, 720 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:11.599 he took out the taker and now he's taken on me. 721 00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:13.199 I'm the in for the fight of my life. But 722 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:16.039 damn it, I'm gonna brush myself off. I'm gonna regroup, 723 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.400 and I'm gonna go get him. But there was nothing 724 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.159 no it was to me, it was totally slapp. 725 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.880 And Mick, no and no offense to the promo. You 726 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:26.880 just exactly what I expected and thought Sena would give. 727 00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:29.119 And I wanted him to just deliver the promo his life. 728 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.159 But that what you said is in rocket science because 729 00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:35.360 it's what every babyface has ever done when they've been 730 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.679 down and out. That's the speech you give. It's progressing 731 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.320 one on one. And the reason for that, Mick, is 732 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.599 it is the obvious thing to do, like sure, And 733 00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.599 so what what blows my mind is you just cut 734 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.000 a really good promo essentially for John Cena that he 735 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:53.679 can put in his own his own words, stretch it 736 00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.280 out tight, now do whatever he wants. Put a spin 737 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:58.039 on it. But that is absolutely what he should have done, 738 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.920 and I think what everybody was expecting, including his fans, 739 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:05.239 and I am sort of at a loss for why 740 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.440 they skip that and it to me and I don't 741 00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:09.960 want this to be a bast John Cena thing, because 742 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.079 sometimes I think he's the victim

of Vince McMahon being 743 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.159 you know, as people call him now, a crazy old 744 00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:18.880 man too just makes decisions on a whim. But John 745 00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:21.159 Cena has some cloud in that company, and I just 746 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:23.880 think either he doesn't stand up enough for what he 747 00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:26.039 thinks he should be doing as a character, or he's 748 00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:28.960 actually not that in tune with certain things that a 749 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:31.599 lead babyface wrestler should be in tune with. Because to me, 750 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:35.599 I think he should have said, wait a second, if 751 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.559 this were real and I took this kind of beating, 752 00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:40.079 this is what I would be thinking, and this is 753 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:41.920 what I'd want to communicate to my fans. I feel 754 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.440 like we're kind of skipping a couple chapters here, and 755 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.360 he didn't say that. And when I wrote my initial report, 756 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.800 when I was typing it up as I watched it, 757 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.599 I thought, well, okay, this is a start. You know. 758 00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:53.480 He hit a few points but I didn't think he 759 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.760 was going to come back later in the night just 760 00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:56.440 beat the hell out of bray White and then even 761 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:58.559 have another match where he's you know, fired up on 762 00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:00.519 the ring apron wanting a hot tag. There was no 763 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.719 follow up. I'm I think we're all just kind of 764 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:04.199 in a little bit of a shock for the lack 765 00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:08.159 of wrestling. I acumen shown here that at least something 766 00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.239 close to the bare minimum was done for that next 767 00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:11.440 logical chapter in this mix. 768 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.360 Well, you know, I think you touched on a very 769 00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:16.639 good point. I mean, we we would assume that Scena 770 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:19.760 has cloud with the company about how much cloud, I 771 00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.159 mean does Vincent do in Triple H And the writers say, 772 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:24.920 all right, this is what we want you to do. 773 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:26.920 We don't even want you to go out and mention 774 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:29.719 the beating that you took, i know, start hyping the rematch. 775 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:30.360 Yep uh. 776 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.079 You know, let's have everybody forget about what happened. And 777 00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.280 you know, you know, we don't want people to think 778 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.639 for one second that maybe you don't stand the chance John, 779 00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:41.159 So just go out like you're pissed off and you're 780 00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:43.920 going to go get him next time. Makes no sense 781 00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:47.400 to me. I I just again totally flat when he 782 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:49.320 put when he came out, well, first of all, when 783 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.400 they said John Cena is going to address WW when 784 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:54.280 they hyped it the week before, I thought, all right, 785 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.719 this is going to be interesting. Yeah, you know, see 786 00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.320 what he's going to say and how he's going to 787 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:00.599 approach this. When he came into the ring, you know, 788 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:03.039 he walked down the aisleand know where he wasn't smiling, 789 00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:05.320 he had that serious luck on his face. And then 790 00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:07.159 you got the legends in there with him. I think 791 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.159 this is really gonna be good. And he had started 792 00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.639 it was just like I thought, wait a minute, what 793 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:17.719 what else am I This is something here. 794 00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:19.199 I'm not going to give it away here because I 795 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.920 want to move on to some other things. But John 796 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.599 Piermarini create a team member in WWE two thousand nine, 797 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:25.719 twenty ten. He's been on this show many many times. 798 00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:28.079 He's part of the PW Torch All Star panel that 799 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.199 answers your questions on our website PW torch dot com 800 00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:33.719 throughout the week plug plug plug. But that's who I'm 801 00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.760 talking about. He and he just for the News Fighter 802 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:38.239 this week. I asked him, you know, what would you 803 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:40.880 have done if the rematch was booked, and he said, well, 804 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.320 first of all, I want to book the rematch this soon. 805 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.639 But if I'm if that's what was the decision that 806 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:46.960 was made, here's how it would have made the best 807 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:48.320 of it was seen it in the ring with Hogan, 808 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:50.559 Michaels and Flair. I thought he gave a brilliant answer 809 00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:56.000 for how to make the too soon rematch and the 810 00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.000 circumstances on raw was seen as standing in the ring 811 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.000 with a mike with Hogan, Flair and Michael's I think 812 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.440 I thought his suggestion was fantastic and absolutely blew away 813 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:06.840 anything WW did with it. So people who aren't VIP 814 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:08.800 or people are a VIP members

or if they're print 815 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:11.159 us utter subscribers, and we certainly invite people to subscribe 816 00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:13.000 to the print edition to be mailby or mailbox too. 817 00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:16.239 That is also available at PW Torch dot com, slash 818 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:20.440 go VIP. Check out Pierre Marini's suggestion because I endorsed 819 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:22.800 it wholeheartedly in the newsletter. For a reason, Brian, I 820 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:24.360 want to throw back to your still on hold. Did 821 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:25.960 we adequately just for question and do you have any 822 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:27.480 follow up on anything that we've talked about? 823 00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:31.119 Yeah, I just wanted to add as I was listening, 824 00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.239 but you kept talking about skipping chapters, and it really 825 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:35.119 reminds me of the book that first half read in 826 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.039 high school and then was reiterated several times through college, 827 00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:40.639 which is Joseph Campbell's series of books about the hero's 828 00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:42.920 journey and how he has to go through that. I mean, 829 00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.159 every film or every story of some sort follows that 830 00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:48.559 in some way. WW likes to skip big parts of that, 831 00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:51.840 the chapters you're talking about, which to me doesn't allow 832 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:53.519 me to invest and I'm sure for most of the. 833 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.159 Audience absolutely at the top point, Yeah, go ahead. 834 00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:01.559 My next question to you, guys were recently twitch tv, 835 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.559 which is a user generated video game streaming service basically 836 00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.519 where people put up themselves playing video games. Yep, some 837 00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:11.239 of the most popular ones that they've generated a lot 838 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:13.960 of money doing this. They were recently sold or bought 839 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.639 by Amazon for one billion dollars. Do you think there's 840 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.039 there's an opportunity or a market where something where some 841 00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.719 vendor someone to put together a service where people could 842 00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:26.239 get indie content from around the world, maybe just the 843 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.199 United States at first, but then Japan, Mexico on a 844 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:31.360 service like that. I know Roku has a couple of 845 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:34.880 niche wrestling you know companies on there, but someplace where 846 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.679 everyone can go a counterpowder or counter to the ww network. 847 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:41.559 Okays, cool question. I would like to say first, Brian, 848 00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:44.639 that Pro Wrestling Torch is for sale perpetually for one 849 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:47.920 billion dollars. So if anybody out there, you know, wants 850 00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:50.519 to buy Pro Wrestling Torch, I'll throw in the library, 851 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.400 the live cast, the trademark, one billion dollars. Just want 852 00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:55.480 to throw that out there. Thanks. I thought that's where 853 00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:58.079 you're going, Brian. If you thought I could have a buyer, Mick, 854 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:04.239 what about out distributing indie shows and in a more 855 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.199 organized way on the internet and finding a way to 856 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.639 generate some revenue and support indie wrestling through something along 857 00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:10.119 those lines. I think that's kind of what Brian was 858 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:12.719 getting at. What do you think I mean? I know 859 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:16.159 the Steel Domain show out in Hopkins was a pay 860 00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:21.000 per view and ROH the week before taped their show 861 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.599 in Hopkins, Minnesota, which is just west of Minneapolis but 862 00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:28.199 eight minute drive, and they taped the show for distribution. 863 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.599 So you know, indie wrestling, there's a way to see 864 00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:33.480 it in ROH is kind of a hybrid in between. 865 00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.199 But there's a way to see a lot of indie 866 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:37.920 wrestling if you want to. But would you like to 867 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.280 see some sort of organization that would allow people to 868 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.880 sit down and basically click on a map that maybe 869 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:46.480 on a computer screen if they were a member or 870 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:48.920 pay perview or just a member, to get all access 871 00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:50.840 and click on a screen and go right now, here's 872 00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:52.599 a live show or here's something from last night that's 873 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.400 been uploaded, and you can watch local indie wrestling on 874 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.960 you know, a single handheld in most cases, I. 875 00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:00.320 Think in series, that would be a great idea, and 876 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.719 I think a lot of people would would take advantage 877 00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:05.199 of that. And I mean, if you think there's there's 878 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:09.079 internet buzz right now and people voicing their opinions, imagine 879 00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.440 you open up that cat of worms for the for 880 00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:15.480 the indie wrestling theme. I think what I'm guessing Wade 881 00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:20.199 is because the indie wrestling world is so discombobulated sometimes, 882 00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:24.320 I mean with

no shows and with technical problems and 883 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.960 with production. You know, you mentioned handheld cameras, you know, 884 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:33.159 and you know again in dark and VFW Hall's or whatever. 885 00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:37.960 I'm not sure that it would be feasible maybe for 886 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:42.719 half a dozen fifteen independent promotions. But I think from 887 00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:46.199 a technical standpoint, the promotions that would be involved in 888 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:48.960 something like that would really have to step their game up. 889 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:55.559 I'm not sure if people or that people would subscribe 890 00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:57.719 to a service like that if they're going to see 891 00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.559 the same stuff over and over again, thirty people, you know, 892 00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:05.079 in a building, you know, with garbage cans, tables and chairs, 893 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.559 That makes no sense. I think that would maybe get 894 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.679 boring after a while. But I could see certainly, you know, 895 00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.519 the lead indie promotions, you know, whether it's Steel Domain 896 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:17.079 or whatever, that I could see possibly happening in the 897 00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:22.840 sense like Championship pressing from Hollywood and Championship pressing from 898 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:26.400 the Twin Cities, and you know the group that they've 899 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.840 got going now, that kind of conglomeration or organization. Of course, 900 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.960 that I could see something like that happening on a 901 00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:35.679 large scale with all the you know, hundreds and thousands 902 00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:36.960 of indies. I don't think so. 903 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:39.760 It would be interesting if there was like a Reddit 904 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.280 type setup where the most popular shows would just move higher, 905 00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.280 Like there'd be a way like if there was indie 906 00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.039 shows and it would reset itself say every three weeks. 907 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.000 But there'd be if an indie show got watched, somebody 908 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.840 could raid it, and the ones that were the most 909 00:44:54.880 --> 00:44:57.639 watched and the most rated are the most highly rated 910 00:44:57.639 --> 00:44:59.840 would show up on a list and it could lead 911 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:03.199 to or like Imager or you know whatever the websites 912 00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:05.760 are where you know, people vote with the thumbs up 913 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.920 to get something a funny picture or quote moved to 914 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:12.360 the top. You could kind of have this like democracy 915 00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:18.119 of indie fans giving the proper credit to an indie show, 916 00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.719 an indie promotion that is producing good shows with wrestlers 917 00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:23.559 you should see. You could click and find out more 918 00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:25.639 details on the promotion of the card or what match 919 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:27.400 in particular to look for. But it'd be kind of 920 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.000 cool to have like this huge democracy of indie fans 921 00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:33.960 shining a spotlight on shows that deserved it. 922 00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.719 You know what's the offshoot of that would be, of course, 923 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:39.519 is it would be kind of like the trash Bag 924 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.679 Wrestler's website where all of a sudden, you know, you 925 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.000 have this network of the absolute worst indie shows ever 926 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:48.960 in the history of the world, and people would rate 927 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:54.320 those two. Yeah, people would gravitate towards the horrible ones too. 928 00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.159 So yeah, I mean, is it feasible, I don't know. 929 00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:59.800 Would it be an entertaining idea? Sure? 930 00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.480 Yeah, I mean it does come down to how many 931 00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:06.000 people out there nationally with so much good wrestling today 932 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:11.199 available ring what Ring of Honor offers hits. It's like 933 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.039 the elite of indie style wrestling combined with and then 934 00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:15.679 you add you know, T and A got two hours 935 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:18.039 a week for the time being at least, and you 936 00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:21.239 have WWE five six five hours a week on cable 937 00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:24.239 main Event and other original program plus pay per views, 938 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:29.119 and then unprecedented access even before the network, just through 939 00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.679 YouTube and all that. But now with the network there's 940 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.599 so much good wrestling that's accessible. What truly is the 941 00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.239 audience level? And would it pay for the design and 942 00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:40.480 the upkeep of an indie wrestling website. And it's not 943 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:42.519 a dig at indie wrestling, it's just it would really 944 00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:45.440 be the long tail. It'd be the fragmented small things. 945 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.239 But that's I guess. What would interest me about taking 946 00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.239 Brian's idea and expanding on it a little bit would 947 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.079 be it would give a chance, even if the audience 948 00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:56.480 started small, to give a sense of order to the chaos. 949 00:46:56.599 --> 00:46:58.599 If fans were voting for the best wrestling and they 950 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:00.960 got followings,

and they're going to run a new show 951 00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:03.559 on Thursday night, maybe they only draw forty five people. 952 00:47:03.599 --> 00:47:07.000 But what if the internet quote, the Internet says this 953 00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:08.760 is the indie show to watch this week, this is 954 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:11.519 the best show lately. They could actually get more attention 955 00:47:11.599 --> 00:47:13.880 on the show, and then the indie promoters would get 956 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.079 money based on how many people actually view their show. 957 00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:20.239 So they'd get a reward for the show being better 958 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:23.000 than everything else in getting that act and getting that acclaim. 959 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.199 Then you know, you run the thirty second ads, you know, 960 00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:27.760 video ads to add some revenue, and now indie wrestlers 961 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.199 well make you know, the indie wrestlers won't see the money, 962 00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:31.440 but the promoters maybe get. 963 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:31.800 A little bit. 964 00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:36.199 Right or the announcers, you know everybody all. 965 00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:41.079 Right, Well, the anouncers don't deserve any more money. Oh sorry, sorry. 966 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.840 Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite 967 00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:49.280 in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts 968 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:51.320 on the show, or a topic you want us to address, 969 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:55.920 or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at Pwtorch dot 970 00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.320 com Wadekeller Podcast at peakwtorch dot com. If there's anything 971 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:01.840 else going on in pro wrestling that you want us 972 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.880 to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, 973 00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:08.559 that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch 974 00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:11.480 dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what 975 00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:13.760 you think of what we're saying, and let us know 976 00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:15.840 what you want us to talk about and ask us 977 00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:23.239 specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. 978 00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.280 You know, but that's that's another thing too, Like that 979 00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:27.360 would be part of the mix. Like any promoters would 980 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:29.880 have an incentive to make sure that good announcers were 981 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.039 announcing their shows because that would be part of this 982 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.599 kind of democracy of any wrestling. So anyway, I don't 983 00:48:35.599 --> 00:48:37.559 have the technical ability to do it, but I would 984 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:40.159 like to say, copyright TDH Communications.

If you would like 985 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.440 to use that idea, contact me because it's now mine. 986 00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:45.199 I like it though. I think that'd be fun that 987 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.000 would give me. I would I'd be like, Hey, I'm 988 00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:49.320 in the mood for some wrestling. I'm burned out on WWE. 989 00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.800 I've watched my ro on my ROH for the week, 990 00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:54.760 but I just want to see if there's a rising 991 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.039 star and it could be a pretty fun thing. I'd 992 00:48:57.079 --> 00:48:58.239 like to see something like that happen. 993 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.760 Yeah, yeah, I wasn't detegrating the indie scene either. 994 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:03.199 Oh I know. 995 00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:05.159 Yeah. I mean obviously you know. 996 00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:06.639 You do that off air enough Mac, But I know 997 00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:08.239 you say, Wade, I'm not gonna rip them on air. 998 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:12.199 There's tens of thousands of emotions a run, and certainly 999 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.280 I mean in that mix of all those promotions, there's 1000 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.559 some great stuff out there. And you're right. I mean 1001 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:20.079 if that were showcased, if they started out with that 1002 00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:22.079 forty five people and all of a sudden they got 1003 00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:25.199 a worldwide audience, you know, it could really shine a 1004 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:27.679 light on them. But you know, great idea. But you 1005 00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:30.719 know you fronted Wade and we'll be good to go. 1006 00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:33.920 Sounds good. Well, then people can hear you're announcing, which 1007 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:35.800 I have said is the best in the business. There's 1008 00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:38.440 We've talked about it before. I don't want to necessarily 1009 00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:41.440 go go in detail again, but the philosophy that you bring, 1010 00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.719 which is the second I put that headset on, assuming 1011 00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.519 the any promoter can afford the headset for you. As 1012 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:50.599 soon as you put the headset on. It's real, and 1013 00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:54.679 the babyfaces are cast as baby faces for a reason 1014 00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:59.679 because they have character traits that make the world work, 1015 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:03.960 because stealing and cheating and lying is frowned upon in 1016 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.480 society because people who are good at what they do 1017 00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:09.719 then don't get ahead. The person who deserves the job 1018 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:13.239 the construction company that deserves to get hired by the 1019 00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:15.559 mayor the city is the one who does a good job, 1020 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:17.320

not the one who does a crappy job but bribes 1021 00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:22.039 them and so and sometimes it seems obvious, but it's like, 1022 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.480 I feel like I have to remind people in the 1023 00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.599 kind of ruthoesque nonsense that there are no heels and faces. 1024 00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:29.239 It's all shades of gray b s. There are good 1025 00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:31.199 people in the world who do good things and live 1026 00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:33.559 on an honor code, and then there's complete jerks out 1027 00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:36.320 there who will lie, cheat and steel. Eddie Garro's thing 1028 00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.119 was fun while it lasted, but in a way it 1029 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:40.639 ruined wrestling because it's likely cheat and steel woo let's cheer. 1030 00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:44.199 No nobody wants to be lied to, cheated, or stolen from. 1031 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.079 I don't want someone to break into my garage right 1032 00:50:46.119 --> 00:50:49.000 now and steal my bikes. So you as an announcer 1033 00:50:49.039 --> 00:50:52.039 just bringing it back to wrestling, you get upset when 1034 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.599 a heel cheats and to bring it to Monday's row 1035 00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.000 for a moment. My biggest outrage when I watched Raw 1036 00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.519 wasn't John Cena dropping on his promo. It probably should 1037 00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:03.840 have been, but it wasn't. It was that Cain booked 1038 00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:07.480 himself and seth Rawlins against Roman Reigns in a two 1039 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.159 on one match, and there wasn't even a hint from 1040 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.039 the announcers that that was unfair, outrageous and in a 1041 00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:19.920 completely an abuse of power. There was none of that outrage, Mick. 1042 00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:21.719 If you were announcing that show, you wouldn't need to 1043 00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:23.760 have anyone in the headset to tell you when a 1044 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:26.679 heel uses and abuses power to create a two on 1045 00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:28.760 one match that puts a rising baby face like Roman 1046 00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.920 Reigns in jeopardy against two men. That is something that 1047 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:35.320 you want the fans to be upset because heel heat 1048 00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:37.400 is the key to wrestling working. But when the announcers 1049 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:39.760 aren't putting heat on the heels and they're just acting like, ah, yeah, 1050 00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:41.639 if I had the power, I do that too, it's 1051 00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:43.360 hard to get heal heat. It's cheating everybody when the 1052 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:44.480 announcers don't do their job. 1053 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.239 Well. Of course, first of all, like you said, it's 1054 00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:49.559 not rocket science. I mean, yeah, that's what I do 1055 00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:52.320 because that's the way it's supposed to be. And like 1056 00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:54.320 you say, when I put that headset on, there's good 1057 00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:56.079 guys and bad guys, and it's always going to be 1058 00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:59.480 that way, and that you know, it's as proud of 1059 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.000 it as I am. There's a lot of people that say, Ohtamon, 1060 00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:03.519 you know, in this day and age, you know, what 1061 00:52:03.559 --> 00:52:04.639 do you get so fired up? 1062 00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:06.719 What do you say to that? 1063 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:11.519 It's my I mean for starters. And then secondly, I 1064 00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:15.079 think to your point, wait about the announcers not reacting 1065 00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:18.199 to an abuse of power by Cain or whatever. Yeah, 1066 00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:22.400 no wonder, people don't care. No wonder people are in 1067 00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:25.519 that gray area. No wonder, they don't really boo the 1068 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:28.440 heels and really cheer the baby faces. Because if the 1069 00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:30.639 announcers don't care, why should I. 1070 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.000 Right, I don't even think it crosses fans' minds that 1071 00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:36.760 it was something they should be upset about. We didn't 1072 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:39.880 have I mean, Roman reigns shouldn't complain, but Roman reign 1073 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.599 should be given my time to say I'm willing to 1074 00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:45.639 I'm willing to stand up to these two people, but 1075 00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:48.360 there should be the interview and promo should be crafted 1076 00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:51.159 in a way where the fans can tell this is 1077 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:53.320 not a good situation for Roman reigns. It's a power 1078 00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.039 It's like a power play in hockey. But nobody committed 1079 00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:58.000 a foul like Rohen Rains didn't do anything to deserve 1080 00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:00.760 to be quote a man down. And that's the whole 1081 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:02.840 problem with the whole structure of a heel authority figure. 1082 00:53:02.840 --> 00:53:06.119 Because Mikederrope, where did I read it? It was on 1083 00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:10.360 a I forgot the website, a very popular pop culture website, 1084 00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:12.639 and it was a It was an article on wrestling 1085 00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:14.960 Round the Wrestle any Time, and the opening paragraph was 1086 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:18.199 everybody knows what you need for a wrestling show is 1087 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:20.119 is a good guy a bad guy in a heal 1088 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:23.000 authority figure and you know something along those lines, And 1089 00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:27.719 I was like, no, no, that's that is. The heel 1090

00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:30.119 authority figure was the start of things going way way 1091 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:33.000 off course, and wrestling has been way better off for 1092 00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:37.440 decades when you actually had an authority figure who cared 1093 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.079 about law order, even playing field and rules, because that's 1094 00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:42.639 how heels get heat because they're cheating the system. 1095 00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.679 Wait. I grew up and as you know, was Wally Tarble, 1096 00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.239 you know, and you know when the heels, I don't 1097 00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:50.159 care if they used a chair or whatever they did. 1098 00:53:50.599 --> 00:53:53.239 Wally came out and he waived that singer and threatened 1099 00:53:53.239 --> 00:53:56.800 the fines and suspensions. And that's what it's all about. Yeah. 1100 00:53:56.840 --> 00:54:00.480 And not only do the do the announcers not care, 1101 00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:03.559 but when you see the abuse of power by the 1102 00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:08.480 the heel authority figure every single week when they hotshot 1103 00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:10.800 an angle, you know, whether it was back in the 1104 00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:13.079 day with Vince doing it or now with Triple H 1105 00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:16.199 doing it, or when MZP was doing it in TNA 1106 00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:20.199 or Dixie Carter, it's same old, same old. So you 1107 00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.360 know it's which babyface is going to get screwed this week? 1108 00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:27.360 Oh hum? Ye say that's basically what it is. Same plotline, 1109 00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:29.199 same storyline every week. 1110 00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:32.760 It's frustrating and disappointing. It can be so much better. 1111 00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:34.159 I want to get another call in here from a 1112 00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:35.880 VIP member. Has been an old long time. This is 1113 00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:41.440 Scott Scott lesson not City you're calling from. Go ahead, 1114 00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:43.840 Scott seven seven three. 1115 00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:46.719 Not Chicago. 1116 00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:49.199 Oh sorry, Forts, I go ahead. What have you got 1117 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:57.119 for Mick and I today? Are you still there? Hello? Okay, 1118 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:01.639 all right, sorry about that. Give a call back, Nick. 1119 00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:06.079 Let's let's go ahead and talk about, uh, the show 1120 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.880 that you were at. It was Saturday night, right, yes? 1121 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:11.920 And what what it wasn't Superior, Wisconsin? What was the city? 1122 00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:15.480 It was Redcliffe, Wisconsin, just outside of Superior. 1123 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:16.239 Okay, yep. 1124 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:20.519 This was a heavy unrestling promotion. David Savid yep. And 1125 00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:22.599 it was at a

casino, so there was a nice 1126 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:25.840 little budget and a lot of the h A lot 1127 00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:30.760 of former big names with w W attended the show, 1128 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:34.800 plus uh plus a real solid lineup of matches. It 1129 00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:36.599 was a real good event all the way around. 1130 00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:38.400 Who are some of the names that were out there? 1131 00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:43.159 Well, let's see, uh, the Steiner brothers were there, and 1132 00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:46.960 Roddy Piper was there, and Sean Waltman and of course 1133 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:52.760 Booker T was there and hardcore Holly it was. It 1134 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:55.519 was I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody, but it was a 1135 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:59.480 pretty loaded lineup. Yeah, and you know they and again, 1136 00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:03.840 you know, heavy on wrestling is kind of an anomaly 1137 00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:07.760 in wrestling. Circles today on the indie level because they 1138 00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:11.880 showcase a lot of the great young talent here in 1139 00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.960 the state of Minnesota the Upper Midwest. But also they 1140 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:18.400 have a propensity to bring in big names, whether it's 1141 00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:21.679 a Rick Flair or you know this lineup that I 1142 00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.920 should mention Jake Roberts, I don't know how I could. Yeah, yep, 1143 00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:28.480 miss Jake. Jake was there as well, so all in all, 1144 00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:34.360 very enthusiastic crowd top to bottom. Roddy Piper was tremendous 1145 00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:37.599 with the crowd. I've seen him at Califlower Alley Club 1146 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:40.320 a couple of times when he's kind of inundated with people, 1147 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:42.480 so he's you know, he doesn't get a chance to 1148 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:45.280 kind of, you know, interact with the fans. But he 1149 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:50.239 was great. Booker T. I put a Facebook interview up 1150 00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:52.559 that I had done with Booker T where it was 1151 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:55.599 kind of heavy on promoting his reality of wrestling promotion. 1152 00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:56.079 Yep. 1153 00:56:56.360 --> 00:56:58.559 I can't think of a greater guy that I've had 1154 00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:01.320 the opportunity to work with him talk about fan friendly 1155 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:07.000 and just just congenial, terrific. But again, back to the 1156 00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:11.280 show itself, was really really good and apps off to 1157 00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:13.239 the promotion just a great job. 1158 00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:15.400 It's a tough question to answer, and I want to 1159 00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:16.760 go back to talk about some of the bigger names 1160 00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:18.440 on the show, you know, the nationally no names. But 1161 00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:20.239 there's a tough question to ask because I know you'll 1162 00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:23.199 feel bad and you know later if you leave somebody out. 1163 00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:26.119 But can you name one, two or three guys on 1164 00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:28.559 the Minnesota Andy scene that if somebody sees their name 1165 00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.239 on an indie lineup, they should pay particular attention to 1166 00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:35.159 their match because you think, one they maybe they'll go 1167 00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:36.960 nowhere else but any wrestling, but they really give your 1168 00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.800 money's worth on the indie show. And two do some 1169 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:42.199 guys fall into the category of this guy should be 1170 00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.159 brought into developmental by WWE. They've got potential to be 1171 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:45.880 a national star. 1172 00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:48.599 I think there's kind of a mix and a lot 1173 00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:51.559 of them kind of blur the lines. So I'll I'll 1174 00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:54.679 just throw the names out there. And what I'm doing, wait, 1175 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.199 is kind of combining the guys that work for SDW 1176 00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.960 and the heavy on wrestling promotions because those are real 1177 00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:02.000 the ones that I've been involved with lately. 1178 00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:03.400 Yeah, yep, I. 1179 00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:07.199 Would say Aria Davari, the younger brother Sean Davari to 1180 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:11.719 me is just exceptional. Why this kid hasn't made it 1181 00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:14.239 yet on the national level, I don't know, but I 1182 00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:16.280 would say if you see his name on a poster, 1183 00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:18.800 come out and see him. There's no question about it. 1184 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:23.039 Uh Luke Hawks and Scott Summers who work as Kings 1185 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:26.320 of the Underground for the Heavy un Wrestling promotion, always 1186 00:58:26.360 --> 00:58:31.760 great great stuff. The Steel Domain Northern State Champ Hopshot, 1187 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:36.400 Danny Duggan who works extent extensively up in Canada and 1188 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:39.599 he's got a cohort up there that we steal. Domain 1189 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:44.440 brings in aj Sanchez Larrock who wrestles as the Canadian Crusher. 1190 00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:51.119 Another guy that I would say, you know certainly. Ricky 1191 00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:54.199 Love is a kid who wrestles in Iowa. Based out 1192 00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:58.320 of Iowa. Is the guy, Yeah, really talented. 1193 00:58:58.400 --> 00:59:00.320 He impressed me month. 1194 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:04.239 Yeah, he's got a great, great attitude. And of course 1195 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:06.199 every once in a while you get the Cabanas and 1196 00:59:06.199

--> 00:59:09.840 the Pierces come into town too. But I think speaking 1197 00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:12.920 for those two promotions, there's so much talent out there, 1198 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:16.880 and why these guys haven't gotten an opportunity yet to 1199 00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:20.519 appear on the national stage, I don't know. They certainly should. 1200 00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:23.960 Do you think today it's tougher for an indie wrestler 1201 00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:28.719 than to get noticed nationally than it was five or 1202 00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:29.519 fifteen years ago. 1203 00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.800 Oh, absolutely, no question about it. And this is something 1204 00:59:33.800 --> 00:59:36.480 that I actually had asked Booker t about because he 1205 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:38.599 was talking about, you know, the young guys trying to 1206 00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:42.000 break into the business, and I asked him that specifically. 1207 00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:45.320 You know, everybody looks at WWE and some guys have 1208 00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:47.400 that in their head, you know, someday I'm going to 1209 00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:50.239 make it and their full throttle, their full steam ahead. 1210 00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:51.280 You know. 1211 00:59:51.400 --> 00:59:54.320 An example would be Eric Rowan, you know, a local 1212 00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:59.519 guy who made it huge in WWE. And basically what 1213 00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:02.119 I was at scheme Booker is because of the lack 1214 01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:05.760 of territories and the lack of major promotions, is not 1215 01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:08.159 a lot of places to go. So can that be 1216 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:11.000 a detrimat as far as you know? He mentally to 1217 01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:13.840 some of these guys, thinking on ww will never hire me. 1218 01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:15.719 This is as far as I'm going to go. It 1219 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:17.840 is what it is, And he didn't think so he 1220 01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.320 just said, you know, you know, keep your keep your 1221 01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:23.800 nose to the grindstone, and you just never know. Certainly 1222 01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:25.800 the odds are against him from what it was five 1223 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.159 years ago is ten years ago. There's no doubt about it. 1224 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:30.519 But you know you can do it. 1225 01:00:30.599 --> 01:00:33.159 You just never know who's going to get noticed. I 1226 01:00:33.239 --> 01:00:35.119 look at some of the guys that I mentioned just 1227 01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:38.679 a minute ago, and I'm floored that they haven't that 1228 01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:41.480 they haven't made it for whatever reason. I just don't 1229 01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:44.079 get it. And I think Aria Davari is probably at 1230 01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:45.039 the top of that list. 1231 01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:48.920 Yeah, yeah, he's He's I've just sort of assumed he 1232 01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:50.880 didn't want to make it nationally because he had a 1233 01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.039 good job outside of wrestling, because he's so good when 1234 01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:56.079 I see him on the indie shows. When I have 1235 01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.639 seen him on indie shows, I'm just like, if I 1236 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:00.840 assume he could get a job wanted one, you know, 1237 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:02.599 I mean, like, I mean, he's not a big he's 1238 01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:04.320 not big, so I mean, there's only so many spots 1239 01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:06.840 nationally for smaller guys. But how did not even TEA 1240 01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:08.320 and A bring him in for X Division work. 1241 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:10.920 I know, I don't understand that at all. And of course, 1242 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.119 you know, with with his U the lineage, you know, 1243 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:15.320 with his brother, you know, Sean Debar, you sat at 1244 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:18.159 death and maybe you're right I mean maybe it's because 1245 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:20.800 you know locally, you know, if if you got a 1246 01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:22.679 if you got a job, and you've got a full 1247 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.039 time job and you're making a decent living, and you 1248 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:28.239 don't want to roll the dice, you know, and see 1249 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.440 what happens and quit that full time job. Another guy 1250 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:33.599 who's been around forever, I mean Mitch Paradise. You know, 1251 01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:36.000 you've seen Mitch work in the indie scene here for 1252 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:38.840 a long long time. And I always felt that Mitch 1253 01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:41.360 had the look. You know, there's a lot of guys 1254 01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:43.119 out there that look like Mitch. But I thought he 1255 01:01:43.199 --> 01:01:45.480 had the attitude. I thought he had the chrism. I 1256 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:47.519 thought he had to look. But he's another guy, you know, 1257 01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:51.239 he just, for whatever reason, he stayed close to close 1258 01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:54.360 to home and worked his full time job and you know, 1259 01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:56.760 taking care of his family and he's happy. You're that 1260 01:01:56.840 --> 01:01:58.559 way just wrestling once or twice a month. 1261 01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:02.480 Uh the uh Saturday night show, And I had I 1262 01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:04.360 wanted to attend that show, but it was it was 1263 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.480 a family get together at the States Fair, and it 1264 01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:09.239 was a long enough drive. What was about five hours, Mick. 1265 01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:12.000 Yeah, it was. It was a long way up there. 1266 01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:14.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, if I could have made a work 1267 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:16.639 I really wanted to, because that would

have been a 1268 01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:18.800 fun show and a fun atmosphere. But I'm glad what 1269 01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:20.199 you said about Booker T. I'm glad to hear what 1270 01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:21.800 you said about Booker T because he's been He's been 1271 01:02:21.800 --> 01:02:23.880 on the live cast twice. He's been a great guest 1272 01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:26.480 both times. Both of those interviews, the free part and 1273 01:02:26.519 --> 01:02:29.320 the VP Exclusive after show are part of our library 1274 01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:31.840 when you sign up for VP membership, and Booker's been great. 1275 01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:35.079 We've won transcriptions of his interviews on the show on 1276 01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:37.800 the live from the live cast in the Prossing Torch newsletter. 1277 01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:42.280 He is he is somebody who just he just impresses 1278 01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:46.280 me even more in Person's not the right word, but 1279 01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:48.679 in the phone conversationally. Then I think he gets a 1280 01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:51.400 chance to show off on these kind of heavily scripted 1281 01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:54.119 bullet points pre shows and post shows and stuff like that, 1282 01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:57.920 like there's more there than I think the WWE atmosphere 1283 01:02:58.039 --> 01:02:59.840 brings out in him. And we also saw that Mick 1284 01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:03.000 with Sean and Rick and Hulk on Monday Night, three 1285 01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:06.480 legends who have all drawn money not being heavily scripted, 1286 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:11.480 being put in a situation heavily scripted, obviously so awkwardly, 1287 01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:14.679 so to the point that I think Michael's just clocked 1288 01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:18.280 out flair, scared to upset the card after what happened 1289 01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:21.440 a year ago, and you know, very tenuous. And then 1290 01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:23.559 you know, Hulk's Hulk. I mean, he's just happy to 1291 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:25.639 be making a paycheck again after losing a lot of 1292 01:03:25.639 --> 01:03:28.159 money through a lot of personal issues. But it just 1293 01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.400 it was, you know, you talk about Booker and how personable, 1294 01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.719 and when that it's almost like when the camera's not on, 1295 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:36.079 he has more charisma than when it is based. And 1296 01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.480 I blame that a lot on the circumstances. It is 1297 01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:41.239 kind of disapointing because going back to you talking about 1298 01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:42.920 being at the TV tap things, in those promos where 1299 01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:46.079 there were no scripts, wrestlers used to just know their character. 1300 01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.559 They knew how to draw money. The promoter hired them 1301 01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.719 because they knew

how to draw money, and they would 1302 01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:53.000 hand them a microphone and go do your thing. And 1303 01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:57.440 now the McMahon's are hiring carpenters, and the carpenters show 1304 01:03:57.519 --> 01:03:59.920 up and they say, Okay, this is how you use 1305 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.880 a hammer, and this is the type of nail you'll use, 1306 01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:05.480 and it's like, no, we're wrestlers, let us do our thing. 1307 01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:07.119 It's a shame that that doesn't happen more. 1308 01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:16.000 Now, I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, 1309 01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:18.840 the new Ongoing Torch Show covering the world of New 1310 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:22.519 Japan pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows 1311 01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:24.920 and noteworthy events dictate. 1312 01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:26.760 And I'm Chris Lansdowe. 1313 01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.320 Join us as we cover the ever changing landscape of 1314 01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:31.920 New Japan as they navigate an era with no lack 1315 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:32.320 of talent. 1316 01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:34.880 But I really need to create some new styles. 1317 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:36.280 You can stream then your. 1318 01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:38.760 Seven Stop podcasts now from Pro Wrestling Talk. 1319 01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.239 Well, you know, as far as dances concerned, and you 1320 01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:57.239 got to remember, yeah, these guys are wrestlers, but you 1321 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:00.000 know demseil kell yea, it's entertainment. It's a weekly entertain 1322 01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.280 in the show. You know, it's not a wrestling show. 1323 01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.119 So just like a sitcom, just like a drama, just 1324 01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:07.599 like whatever. You know, we're going to give you your 1325 01:05:07.679 --> 01:05:09.679 lines and this is the way we wanted want you 1326 01:05:09.760 --> 01:05:12.159 to do it, and you know, so on. So yeah, 1327 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:14.519 that's that's horrible. I mean, you know, again, compared to 1328 01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:17.639 the days when I was growing up where the mad 1329 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:19.480 dogs in the world would come out in the back 1330 01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.679 windows and they would just say, you know, Nick, we're 1331 01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:23.800 going to be in the in Molly, go out there 1332 01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:26.400 and do two minutes about Dusty Rhoades, you know, and 1333 01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:30.519 he would do it just real quickly on Booker Key again. 1334 01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:31.800 Yeah, the end of night. 1335 01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:35.320 And I think this goes to what you said about 1336 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:38.880 the interaction, you know, Booker when the cameras are not on. 1337 01:05:39.719 --> 01:05:41.000 I went up to him at the end of the 1338 01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:43.760 night and we actually he got involved in a couple 1339 01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:46.039 of couple of things that you know, and end of 1340 01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:48.119 the evening with a spinner Ronie, which of course made 1341 01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:51.719 everybody happy. But and he kind of helped us, you know, 1342 01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:54.360 put together some of the finishes and so on. But 1343 01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.159 at the end of the night, I said, you know, Booker, 1344 01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.039 it was so great to work with you. Thank you 1345 01:05:58.079 --> 01:06:01.920 for coming out. And he you could feel a sincerity 1346 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:05.519 in him. He said, no, thank you. You guys brought 1347 01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:08.400 me in. You didn't have to. You called me. I 1348 01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:11.159 came in. You put me over, you put the promotion over. 1349 01:06:11.719 --> 01:06:14.320 And I said, but you're you're you're so damn aviable 1350 01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:17.159 and agreeable and with everybody, and he said, my mother 1351 01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:19.400 told me it doesn't cost anything to be nice to people. 1352 01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:23.880 That he seemed to be the you know, the. 1353 01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:23.960 The Booker team. 1354 01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:27.519 So anyway, yeah, it was a great event. And now 1355 01:06:27.639 --> 01:06:32.039 you know, kind of my own segue, just just steal domain. 1356 01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:34.039 Hopefully we can we can talk about what we got 1357 01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:34.559 coming up to. 1358 01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:37.480 Absolutely well, I do want to just plug Booker T's book. 1359 01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.480 He's coming out with another one later this year. I 1360 01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.199 think it's coming out later this year. But the first 1361 01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:44.480 book he put out is just it's on Amazon. Just 1362 01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.800 entered Booker T. It'll pop up highly recommended. And uh, 1363 01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:49.639 Bruce Mitch. I think Bruce Mitchell's on with me. The 1364 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:52.119 first time I had an interviewed Booker about that book, 1365 01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:55.239 and we did a long form interview. The transcription is 1366 01:06:55.239 --> 01:06:57.119 also available in the Torch news letter and the archives 1367 01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:02.079 online on the VPP site. Absolutely worth reading the book 1368 01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:04.920 because it and it's not a lot about wrestling, and 1369 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:06.800 I don't want to say that to scare people away 1370 01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:08.639 from reading it if they're wrestling fans. There's some in 1371 01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:11.119 there and some good stuff in there, but it really 1372 01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:13.360 is just an amazing journey. And yes, if you write 1373 01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:16.480 a book

about yourself, you're probably going to probably going 1374 01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:18.400 to try to make yourself look good. But the nice 1375 01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:23.320 part about Booker is his the the detailed stories he 1376 01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:26.880 gave about the real choices that he was, the forks 1377 01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:28.280 in the road that he took in life, and when 1378 01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:30.480 he took a wrong one and how he righted that wrong. 1379 01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:32.840 I just think is an inspirational book. I'm not sure 1380 01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:34.800 at what age i'd recommend a kid read it, but 1381 01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:38.440 I think it would be a great book for teenage kids, 1382 01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:41.679 especially if they're in tough situations to read, because I 1383 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.639 just think it's one of those books that just has 1384 01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:46.760 great moral lessons in it because Booker lived it and 1385 01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:50.320 went through it, including time in prison. So I want 1386 01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:52.119 to wanted to give another shout out to his book 1387 01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:53.639 because it really was good and we look forward to 1388 01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:55.840 having back on the show. Yeah, Mick, let's let's talk 1389 01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:58.239 about your uh, what you got coming up with still 1390 01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:00.559 Domain Wrestling, Buel Maine. 1391 01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:02.880 You know, we just came off that the show on 1392 01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:07.760 Hopkins and now coming up September sixth for the fans 1393 01:08:07.800 --> 01:08:11.039 in the local Twin Cities area. Here we're at the 1394 01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:15.159 Richfield American Legion with a television taping and a big 1395 01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:19.119 card and if Paradise Again is going to be there 1396 01:08:19.159 --> 01:08:22.319 in aj Learrock And a guy that I mentioned or 1397 01:08:22.359 --> 01:08:25.640 should have mentioned earlier on is a kid Darren Corbyn. 1398 01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:29.039 And oh yeah, when you talk about the guys that 1399 01:08:29.079 --> 01:08:32.840 are kind of sleepers out there, and nobody really talks 1400 01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:34.800 about it, but they remember him. They'll go to a 1401 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:37.720 show and they'll say, you know what, that redheaded kid 1402 01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:39.840 that I saw, Man, he was good. And I'll tell 1403 01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.760 you what's great about Aaron Corban. He's he's kind of 1404 01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:46.000 like the Ann of Pearson the sense that he transcends 1405 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:49.520 both ears. He's he's a modern day wrestler, so he 1406 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.520 knows how how the kids work today, but he's also 1407 01:08:52.560 --> 01:08:54.920 got that foot in the old school and he interacts 1408 01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:57.600 with the crowd and he cuts the greatest heal promost. 1409 01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.840 And if you remember a couple of years ago when 1410 01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:04.359 he wrestled Tommy Dreamer at the Jerry Lynn retirement show, 1411 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:08.399 you know, Dreamer actually put him over, which is really 1412 01:09:08.439 --> 01:09:10.399 something you know, I had gone in and I was 1413 01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:13.000 kind of helping with stuff that evening and you know, 1414 01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:15.479 asking Dreamer, what do you want to do, and he says, 1415 01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:18.760 you know, let's put the kid over and and Corbyn 1416 01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:23.039 works really hard. He's got a great personality. We're very 1417 01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:26.520 happy to have him on the show. Aria Davari is 1418 01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:29.840 going to be there again. The Golden Idol our old 1419 01:09:29.920 --> 01:09:35.479 buddy has surfaced here in the Minnesota and very enthusiastic 1420 01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:38.319 to get back into wrestling, you know, some twenty three, 1421 01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:41.439 twenty four years later. A lot of young guys on 1422 01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:45.039 this card that we're looking forward to seeing. And Benjamin 1423 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:49.159 Saylor the professional main stay here in the Twin Cities area. 1424 01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:52.039 And on top of it, the big key here it's 1425 01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:56.119 fan appreciation night Steel Domain. We got a pretty loyal following, 1426 01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:59.520 as you know. With the end, people come out and 1427 01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.600 you can in front of our Championship Wrestling from the 1428 01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:06.720 Twin Cities banner, either with a wrestler or myself or 1429 01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:09.359 you know, if you don't want me anywhere near you, 1430 01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:11.640 you know, you can pose with some of your friends. 1431 01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:15.760 We'll take your email address down, send me the photograph 1432 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:19.760 free of charge. There's going to be a drawing for kids. 1433 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:22.520 One lucky kid. If you can imagine this way, and 1434 01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:25.399 if if if you or I were just a little 1435 01:10:25.399 --> 01:10:27.479 bit younger, how great this would be we get we 1436 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:29.600 would get to go into the ring with an hellier 1437 01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:35.880 promoter Ed Hall. Yes, the guy that they call the Architect, 1438 01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:38.039 and he will remind you of that that he's called 1439 01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:47.119 the Architect. He will present the Northern States Championship Belt 1440 01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:49.920 to a youngster who wins a drawing in the middle 1441 01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:53.960 of the ring, get your picture taken, special kids prices, 1442 01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:57.720 and

we're going to have giveaways all night long, some trivia. 1443 01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:00.439 George Shire is going to be there doing broad casting 1444 01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:03.000 with me, so you know, the trivia questions will probably 1445 01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:06.680 go back to about nineteen twenty seven something like that, 1446 01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:10.359 and George and I called our first match together. Yeah, 1447 01:11:10.920 --> 01:11:13.520 So it's going to be fun. We urge every to 1448 01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:16.039 come out. Everybody to come out. It's an internet taping, 1449 01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:21.680 fan friendly atmosphere and a good time. It'll be September sixth, 1450 01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:25.479 Saturday evening, seven thirty bell time. The American Legion in 1451 01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:28.479 Richfield is a sixty system Portland, easy to get to, 1452 01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:30.840 so looking forward to that one. 1453 01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:33.239 It's going to be fun, absolutely, Mick, do you have 1454 01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:34.800 a few more minutes for a couple more subjects on 1455 01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:35.880 the VIP side of things? 1456 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:36.279 Sure? 1457 01:11:36.680 --> 01:11:38.760 Okay, cool, let's go ahead, and I've got more I 1458 01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:41.439 want to talk about, including your experience with some of 1459 01:11:41.079 --> 01:11:45.119 the names you mentioned, Piper Steiners, Bob Holly, Sean Waltman 1460 01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:47.960 about from Saturday show. I took some notes on a 1461 01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:49.399 little bit of follow up on some of our indie 1462 01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:53.399 discussion and also WW raw so and the Paul Hayman 1463 01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:55.319 DVD too. We haven't even touched on that, so maybe 1464 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:57.920 a lot time for that, and because you were around 1465 01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:00.479 him in his early years in the AWA so good 1466 01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:03.119 discussion so far. VIP members, just hold tight because if 1467 01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.159 you're listening to us on the VIP audio feed, you'll 1468 01:12:05.159 --> 01:12:06.600 get to hear the rest of the show. If you're 1469 01:12:06.600 --> 01:12:09.640 not a VIP member, encourage you to go VIP. There's details. 1470 01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:12.119 Easy way to find details is just to go to 1471 01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:15.359 pw torch dot com or the PW torch app We 1472 01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:18.000 have at the very top of the listing details on 1473 01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:19.920 the special offer. If you want to go right to 1474 01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:23.560 the sign up page PW torch dot com slash go 1475 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:26.520 vi IP, sign up for the one month, the three 1476 01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:29.560 month or the one year VIP online membership option and 1477 01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:32.640 enter three three three Torch and that'll get you

in 1478 01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:35.239 the door for a full month of VIP access. And 1479 01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:39.399 you get everything. Everything that's we've ever done and put 1480 01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:42.000 online is available. We don't rotate stuff in and out. 1481 01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:46.840 So I really can't stress enough how much there is 1482 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:50.279 to dig into. If you're a WWE network subscriber. Make 1483 01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:52.479 you you joked earlier about you know, bad indie wrestling, 1484 01:12:52.479 --> 01:12:54.279 and you know there's ways to just make fun of wrestling. 1485 01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.359 It's not a coincidence that I say if you want 1486 01:12:57.359 --> 01:12:59.600 to get together with your friends and watch really bad 1487 01:12:59.600 --> 01:13:02.680 wrestling on the WDWET network. There have been some really 1488 01:13:02.680 --> 01:13:04.399 bad pay per reviews over the years, and the best 1489 01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:06.359 way to find out which ones are the worst is 1490 01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:09.560 to go VIP and flip through some of our back issues, 1491 01:13:09.600 --> 01:13:11.840 because there have been some awful pay per views, and 1492 01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:14.560 you can follow along with my match reports on these 1493 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:17.640 Clash Champions Saturday Night. It's made events pay per views ros. 1494 01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:20.600 Now they're putting up nitros. All of our nitel coverage 1495 01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:23.199 every episode was covered in the newsletter. Follow along and 1496 01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:26.079 hear what I had to say about that show about 1497 01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.680 each match, star ratings and all that, and then roundtable 1498 01:13:28.720 --> 01:13:33.439 reviews from familiar names. Going back twenty years. Mark Madden 1499 01:13:33.560 --> 01:13:36.560 was a Torch columnist and Bruce Mitchell for the last 1500 01:13:36.600 --> 01:13:39.239 twenty plus years. Jason Poul was on the Torch staff 1501 01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:42.039 for many years to the modern era. With everybody that 1502 01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:43.359 you hear on the live cast, you get a lot 1503 01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:45.239 of round table reviews one to ten scores from pay 1504 01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:47.760 per views. It's a great companion, especially if you're sitting 1505 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.560 down with your laptop of your tablet in your hand 1506 01:13:49.720 --> 01:13:51.279 and you can just flip through those issues while you're 1507 01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:53.199 watching the network. It helps you pick out something really 1508 01:13:53.239 --> 01:13:56.880 good or if you're in the mood, something really really awful. 1509 01:13:57.279 --> 01:14:00.199 But we hope you'll visit pwtorch dot com every day, 1510 01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:03.560 that is pwtorch dot com and download our app. If 1511 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:05.680 you're an

mm A or UC fan, check out MMA 1512 01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:09.119 torch dot com and our free MMA Torch app. Also, 1513 01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:12.960 we've got every single day news articles and editorials and 1514 01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:15.479 special features up covering the world of mixed martial arts 1515 01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.000 at our sister brand, MMA torch dot com. Follow me 1516 01:14:19.039 --> 01:14:22.560 on Twitter at z Wade Keller t H E w 1517 01:14:22.760 --> 01:14:25.479 A d E K E L l e R, and 1518 01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:29.000 you can also follow our brand at PW Torch. You 1519 01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:31.680 can also look us up on Facebook at Facebook dot com. 1520 01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:34.279 Slash Pro wrestling Torch. And finally, I just want to 1521 01:14:34.279 --> 01:14:36.920 give a big thanks. We are the number in this 1522 01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.960 We had a fun conversation on Twitter about this, Mick. 1523 01:14:39.159 --> 01:14:42.640 If you take out the podcast by Steve Austin, Jim Ross, 1524 01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:46.439 and Chris Jericho, we are the number one pro wrestling 1525 01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:51.520 podcast in iTunes, and pretty consistently so. If so, Steve 1526 01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:54.039 Austin gave the sinister laugh, and I was joking back 1527 01:14:54.039 --> 01:14:56.479 and forth with him on Twitter about it that last week. 1528 01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:58.239 I told him that he'd had the sinister laugh, like 1529 01:14:58.239 --> 01:14:59.319 I used to be able to brag about being the 1530 01:14:59.359 --> 01:15:01.880 number one wrestling on iTunes until you came along. But 1531 01:15:01.960 --> 01:15:03.640 you know, if you're gonna lose to someone, you want 1532 01:15:03.640 --> 01:15:05.479 it to be Steve Austin. But we're in the top 1533 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:08.720 fifty most of the time in the sports category, number 1534 01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:12.840 one other than those three, and somebody did some faithful Torch. 1535 01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:15.560 The IP member did some figuring, and we're actually the 1536 01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:18.800 fifteenth biggest podcast in the sports category if you take 1537 01:15:18.840 --> 01:15:22.600 out podcast ones, wrestling shows and ESPN and fantasy football. 1538 01:15:22.920 --> 01:15:24.880 I'm not sure what's left after that because that pretty 1539 01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:28.159 much covers most sports podcasts, but we're top fifteen, not 1540 01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:32.079 counting ESPN Fantasy Football or ross Jericho and Austin. So 1541 01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:34.319 I feel pretty good about that, and a big thanks 1542 01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:36.520 to our listeners because I had put on a call 1543 01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:39.039 to action. iTunes pays attention to a lot of things 1544 01:15:39.039 --> 01:15:40.800 and they don't tell you exactly what it is, but 1545 01:15:40.880 --> 01:15:44.079 one of them is high scores for reader ratings and

1546 01:15:44.399 --> 01:15:48.199 activity in the review section that tells iTunes this podcast 1547 01:15:48.279 --> 01:15:51.000 is being updated regularly and the users care enough to 1548 01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:54.000 write a review. So we really do encourage and invite 1549 01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:55.720 you if you're a fan of the show. If you're 1550 01:15:55.760 --> 01:15:57.640 not a fan of the show, please don't listen to 1551 01:15:57.680 --> 01:15:59.560 this part. But if you are a fan of the show, 1552 01:15:59.720 --> 01:16:01.920 go to iTunes and give us a five star rating 1553 01:16:02.199 --> 01:16:04.239 and write up a little review to let people know 1554 01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:07.199 out there, with all the wrestling podcasts out there, why 1555 01:16:07.359 --> 01:16:10.560 the Torch stands above the rest. We've been doing this. 1556 01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:12.880 I've been doing this for going on twenty seven years now, 1557 01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:15.520 and did a show at Kfan back in the early nineties. 1558 01:16:15.560 --> 01:16:18.399 Nine hundred line updates throughout the nineties and now tons 1559 01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:21.439 of podcasting and this has just been a blast to do. 1560 01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:23.600 We're approaching our five year anniversary of doing the live 1561 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:28.239 cast every single weekday later this year, and the support 1562 01:16:28.239 --> 01:16:29.680 that you guys have shown us and the growth that 1563 01:16:29.720 --> 01:16:31.600 we have had month to month and year to year 1564 01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:35.039 has been fantastic. So thank you everybody for that, and 1565 01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:37.800 we hope you'll subscribe if you haven't already on iTunes 1566 01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:39.920 or wherever it is you listen to podcasts. Nick, thanks 1567 01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:41.800 for your patience. While I got some of that business 1568 01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:43.520 out of the way, do you want to plug anything 1569 01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:47.000 else at all that you've got going on besides Saturdays 1570 01:16:47.359 --> 01:16:48.920 or week from Saturday still to main show. 1571 01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:53.079 A couple of things just to mentioned about Facebook. Yeah, 1572 01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:56.600 there is a SLICKT Mixed wrestling fan page that I 1573 01:16:56.680 --> 01:17:00.560 started up a few months ago, and basically you talk 1574 01:17:00.600 --> 01:17:03.960 about wrestling heavy on the old school post a lot 1575 01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:07.439 of pictures and sometimes the YouTube's of matches from days 1576 01:17:07.479 --> 01:17:12.720 gone by. So I encourage people it is an invite 1577 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.760 or you know where I would accept your request to join, 1578 01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:18.680 please do. And the other thing is I just started 1579 01:17:18.720 --> 01:17:22.720 something called the Body, Slams and Pinfalls marketplace, and that's 1580 01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:25.399 for people who are interested in buying or selling or 1581 01:17:25.399 --> 01:17:28.600 trading wrestling memorabilia. And I'm finding that believe it or not. 1582 01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:33.039 It's interesting that less and less people are doing it 1583 01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:37.159 then used to it, and it's very interesting. I don't 1584 01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:39.760 know why that trend is, but there's still some of 1585 01:17:39.840 --> 01:17:41.720 us old geezers out there that want to see the 1586 01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:44.760 old tapes and magazines and programs. And if you're one 1587 01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:48.880 of those again, it's the body Slams and Pinfalls marketplace 1588 01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:50.159 on Facebook. 1589 01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:53.960 Excellent, Nick, thank you so much for your time. Let's 1590 01:17:54.439 --> 01:17:56.840 just transition right now to the VIP after Show. Thank 1591 01:17:56.840 --> 01:17:59.399 you everybody for joining us here at PW torch Live 1592 01:17:59.479 --> 01:18:01.880 task dot That's where you can find the live show 1593 01:18:02.119 --> 01:18:06.680 streaming and also access to our archives pwtorch livecast dot com. 1594 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:09.239 But VIP members listening to us on the VIP audio stream. 1595 01:18:09.279 --> 01:18:12.159 On the other side of this music from Kids on Bridges, 1596 01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:15.520 it will be the VP Discussion VIP after Show with 1597 01:18:15.680 --> 01:18:25.000 wrestling announcer and former Torch contributor and friend Miccarsh. 1598 01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:27.439 You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro 1599 01:18:27.479 --> 01:18:29.439 Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of 1600 01:18:29.520 --> 01:18:31.760 Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check 1601 01:18:31.800 --> 01:18:34.640 out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and 1602 01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:38.960 SmackDown at Pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell 1603 01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:41.359 you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, 1604 01:18:41.680 --> 01:18:44.319 and it will also analyze key segments and give my 1605 01:18:44.439 --> 01:18:47.720 random thoughts end quips on what I am watching as 1606 01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:49.720 it airs. So check it out every Monday night and 1607 01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:55.520 Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. 1608 01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:57.880 I cover those live at pw torch dot com with 1609 01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.600 a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course 1610 01:19:00.600 --> 01:19:03.000 you can find other TV reports from other contributors to 1611 01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:06.920 pw torch such as nxt roh Impact Wrestling and more. 1612 01:19:07.279 --> 01:19:09.960 Check it out pw torch dot com your first stop 1613 01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:12.640 for TV and pay per view written

reports. 1614 01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:43.199 Mick, I hope I didn't get you too much eat 1615 01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:44.479 back calling you a friend at the end of the show. 1616 01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:47.880 There no, no, no, that's fine weight. I've been called 1617 01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:52.960 worse by worse, So thank you. We are longtime friends. 1618 01:19:52.960 --> 01:19:56.039 And I remember nineteen eighty seven you came up to 1619 01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:58.399 me at the Minneto Riam with a couple of page 1620 01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:00.760 news letters and say, hey, I should read this and 1621 01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:03.920 tell me what you think. And now, God bless you, 1622 01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:06.640 it's been such a great run for you. And you 1623 01:20:06.640 --> 01:20:08.840 know you're a class at my friend. 1624 01:20:09.159 --> 01:20:13.399 Thank you very much. I saw Mike Mike Rosen, the 1625 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:17.159 wrestling columnist for The Observer in the Torch. Mister Mike 1626 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.720 out at the Steel the main show a few weeks back, 1627 01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:23.680 several weeks back, and he reminded me of the first 1628 01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:26.840 time that he saw the Torch and he wrote me 1629 01:20:26.880 --> 01:20:28.199 a note back. It was you know, I sent him 1630 01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:29.840 some copies and then he wrote me a note back. 1631 01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:32.640 And this is classic, mister Mike, he said, He said, 1632 01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:34.560 he told me, and I probably had this letter somewhere 1633 01:20:34.560 --> 01:20:36.439 if this story is true, and I think it is. 1634 01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:39.399 He said in the letter to me, if you are 1635 01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:43.359 a teenager, or he said, if you're thirty year older, 1636 01:20:43.600 --> 01:20:45.960 you've got some work to do. If you're in your twenties, 1637 01:20:46.039 --> 01:20:48.600 it's a good start. And if you're a teenager, I'm impressed. 1638 01:20:49.319 --> 01:20:53.800 So something along those lines. But I'll take it. And 1639 01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:59.279 he was right. So but anyway, that's I had forgotten that. 1640 01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:01.000 But then there was of my brain that thought, I 1641 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:03.319 think I kind of remember something like that. And it 1642 01:21:03.359 --> 01:21:06.720 took a while for for me to see Mike at 1643 01:21:06.720 --> 01:21:08.800 a wrestling show recently. I was blown away when somebody said, 1644 01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:10.760 I think that's Mike in the front row. But it 1645 01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:12.399 was great to see him there. And I know he 1646 01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:14.600 had a last talking to George Shire about all of 1647 01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.680 George Shire's programs and how George used to buy like 1648 01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.399 fifteen or twenty programs and mail him out, you know, 1649 01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:22.680 and then he'd get people all over the country to 1650 01:21:23.119 --> 01:21:28.079 mail him their programs from the local territorial wrestling Yep, yeah, 1651 01:21:28.159 --> 01:21:31.520 cool stuff. All right, I want to say one thing 1652 01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:34.760 about Stephane McMahon. We're talking about the heel authority figures, 1653 01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:36.960 and in my notes here it's going to be kind 1654 01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:39.199 of random here in the after show, but Stephanie, after 1655 01:21:39.239 --> 01:21:43.039 her match at SummerSlam, went to ring after playing this 1656 01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:47.439 horrible nasty heel, went to ringside and hugged her kids 1657 01:21:48.239 --> 01:21:52.680 and acted just all like this sweet, nice mother who 1658 01:21:52.760 --> 01:21:55.760 loves her children. And we know she loves her children. 1659 01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:57.720 But do we want to be reminded of that mick 1660 01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:03.039 on a wrestling show when we were just talked into 1661 01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:07.399 watching the show because ostensibly we want to see Stephanie 1662 01:22:07.439 --> 01:22:10.479 McMahon get beaten up because she's this horrible nasty prima donna. 1663 01:22:10.880 --> 01:22:13.760 I like that would have never happened in any other era, 1664 01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:15.680 and it's it's one of those other anicals we talked 1665 01:22:15.680 --> 01:22:17.479 about the announcers not being outraged at the two on 1666 01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:20.680 one match with Caana and Seth against Rains. It's just 1667 01:22:20.720 --> 01:22:24.560 another little thing that chips away at fans being able 1668 01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:26.039 to do what I think fans want to do, which 1669 01:22:26.079 --> 01:22:28.439 is get absorbed in it and be given a story 1670 01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:30.560 that they can believe in without being hit over the 1671 01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:32.520 head with a reminder that what they're watching is is 1672 01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:34.199 is just all made up. 1673 01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:37.880 Way, that's that all suspension of disbelief and that and 1674 01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:41.680 it grows not only for you know, hardcore wrestling fans 1675 01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:44.399 and believers that you will, but for us too. I mean, 1676 01:22:44.479 --> 01:22:47.159 we you know, we want to get caught up and 1677 01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:50.359 just for that two hours or three hours, and we 1678 01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:52.800 don't need to be reminded, you know that this a 1679 01:22:52.880 --> 01:22:55.279 script and we don't you know, to me, it's like 1680 01:22:55.319 --> 01:22:57.960 when I watch a TV show on HBO or whatever, 1681 01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:00.840 the making of such and such. I don't want to 1682 01:23:00.880 --> 01:23:02.199 see the making of such and such. 1683 01:23:02.960 --> 01:23:06.319 Yes, you know, I. 1684 01:23:06.279 --> 01:23:08.159

Don't want to. I don't want to have the main 1685 01:23:08.279 --> 01:23:11.319 character stop and you know, in the middle and say, okay, 1686 01:23:11.359 --> 01:23:13.279 this is how this is done. Or go hug their 1687 01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:15.560 kid or kiss their dog or whatever they're going to do. 1688 01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:18.239 I agree with you, and I think it is just 1689 01:23:18.479 --> 01:23:23.600 another another example of the I don't want to see disrespect. 1690 01:23:23.960 --> 01:23:27.680 You know. It's it's just like disinterested in keeping any 1691 01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:32.640 any sense of believability alive. I mean, I won't even 1692 01:23:32.720 --> 01:23:36.079 use the you use the word k fate keeping sable. 1693 01:23:36.319 --> 01:23:39.039 I mean that's that's long since been dead and buried. 1694 01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:43.960 But have some semblance of this is real. I mean, 1695 01:23:44.520 --> 01:23:47.000 at least go hug your kids after the show, take 1696 01:23:47.159 --> 01:23:50.079 on the back, hug them. You know. It's bad enough 1697 01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:52.119 when John Cena goes out and the hugs is damn, 1698 01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:56.359 you know. But I mean when Stephanie's hugging her kids, 1699 01:23:56.960 --> 01:24:00.920 uh you know again as after her vile performance against 1700 01:24:01.199 --> 01:24:04.199 against Bribella, It's like, wait a minute, what are you doing? 1701 01:24:04.319 --> 01:24:07.560 What are you doing? Can you just maintain character for 1702 01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:10.560 another few minutes and then take your kids backstage? 1703 01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:14.680 Exactly? And I know some people you gave the example, 1704 01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:16.880 they say, well, you know, come on, Mick, why are 1705 01:24:16.880 --> 01:24:19.520 you taking it so seriously? Everybody knows it's fake. It's 1706 01:24:19.560 --> 01:24:22.239 like everybody knows movies are fake, but they, like you said, 1707 01:24:22.479 --> 01:24:25.199 you don't want to be reminded of it while you're 1708 01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:29.960 watching the movie. I don't understand, and I think it's 1709 01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:31.840 a there's kind of a I don't know if the 1710 01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:33.560 word chip on the show there's a right kind of 1711 01:24:33.560 --> 01:24:37.680 cliche or term to use. But there was something that 1712 01:24:37.840 --> 01:24:40.159 happened along the way in the last twenty five years 1713 01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:44.680 where people in wrestling went from protecting so to speak, 1714 01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:47.640 protecting KFE, protecting the business, you know, protecting the secret, 1715 01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:50.039 guarding the way the business operated, and they just go 1716 01:24:50.199 --> 01:24:52.880 the complete opposite, which is we don't want to insult 1717 01:24:52.920 --> 01:24:56.680 anybody by actually pretending it's real or being realistic. Even 1718 01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:59.279 in the context of the actual show. It's so inconsistent 1719 01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:01.520 and it it really is frustrating, and I think bad 1720 01:25:01.680 --> 01:25:06.199 for business and not not catering to the fans. I 1721 01:25:06.279 --> 01:25:09.640 don't think you're serving the fans when you're Stephanie McMahon. 1722 01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:14.079 Even Stephanie going on Twitter talking about how she got 1723 01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:16.640 into character for SummerSlam, you know, like I got into 1724 01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:18.800 my evil, evil alter ego for Summer Slim. I'm like, 1725 01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:19.439 I don't even want to. 1726 01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:22.640 See that waited. See. I mean, it's so night and day. 1727 01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:24.800 And remember who you're talking to here. I mean, you know, 1728 01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:27.680 in terms of the old school guy, I mean it's 1729 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:31.000 night and day and it went south. I mean it 1730 01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:35.439 really torpedo and it avalanched all at once. Everybody's all 1731 01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:38.439 of a sudden doing a shoot interview, everybody's doing an expose. 1732 01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:41.039 And I don't know if this is after Eddie Mansfield 1733 01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:43.079 and Jim Wilson did their thing. I don't know if 1734 01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:46.439 that was the defining moment or whatever. But on the 1735 01:25:46.600 --> 01:25:49.640 national scale, and even you know, I'll see like a 1736 01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:53.760 bully ray posting something on on Facebook where he'll say, 1737 01:25:53.800 --> 01:25:57.279 don't you people understand it's just a storyline. Don't tell 1738 01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:00.479 me that, yeah, you know, don't tell the average you know. 1739 01:26:01.039 --> 01:26:03.880 And again people aren't stupid. Yes, people know what it is, 1740 01:26:04.520 --> 01:26:08.199 but don't sham it down everybody's throat. And you had 1741 01:26:08.199 --> 01:26:11.640 the perfect example there. You know, a movie isn't real. 1742 01:26:11.720 --> 01:26:14.199 You know, the bad guy on television is real, you know, 1743 01:26:14.279 --> 01:26:17.439 the Tony Soprano character. But you get into it, you 1744 01:26:17.600 --> 01:26:21.039 want to have that escape, and you know, just just 1745 01:26:21.079 --> 01:26:23.600 for a few minutes, just for a few hours, just 1746 01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:27.640 let me submerge myself in this fantasy world without ruining 1747 01:26:27.640 --> 01:26:29.399 it for me. And that goes the same for the 1748 01:26:29.399 --> 01:26:32.760 announcers too. And even if these it's funny, even at 1749 01:26:32.800 --> 01:26:35.720 indy shows. And this has been a bone of contention 1750 01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:39.159 with me, Wade. And I'll grant you that a lot 1751 01:26:39.199 --> 01:26:41.680 of the crowd that goes to the indie shows is 1752 01:26:41.760 -->

01:26:45.520 friends and family of the workers. But you know, when 1753 01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:48.199 you go in there and you wrestle, and then right 1754 01:26:48.239 --> 01:26:50.520 after the match is over, after you've just you know, 1755 01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:53.840 gone into a light tube match with the guy, and 1756 01:26:53.880 --> 01:26:56.760 then you go out and talk to his family and 1757 01:26:56.800 --> 01:26:59.239 you sit with him in the bleachers five minutes after 1758 01:26:59.239 --> 01:27:02.079 the show is over. I can't stand that either. Yeah, 1759 01:27:02.119 --> 01:27:05.239 so you know it's it's maybe it's an old codured talking, 1760 01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:10.399 but keep some of the believability in your product. Otherwise, 1761 01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:13.279 why do it? That's that's another thing. Why do this? 1762 01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:17.119 Why if you're a mixed foldy, why drop seventy feet 1763 01:27:17.560 --> 01:27:20.359 and have your your tooth coming through your nose and 1764 01:27:20.399 --> 01:27:23.399 then tell everybody, well, you know this is scripted and 1765 01:27:23.399 --> 01:27:26.560 blah blah blah. Why keep raising the bar at at 1766 01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:28.640 the same time telling everybody this is fake? 1767 01:27:29.000 --> 01:27:32.000 And I think it's it's like wanting that corporate acceptability, 1768 01:27:32.199 --> 01:27:34.800 and you're serving corporations in Wall Street instead of the 1769 01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:35.680 fans when you take that. 1770 01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:39.399 Approach, that's right, that is perfectly stated. Yep, you're right, yep. 1771 01:27:39.800 --> 01:27:41.880 And it's just it's time for promoters to say, we 1772 01:27:41.920 --> 01:27:45.000 know what we're doing and we and there's a lot 1773 01:27:45.039 --> 01:27:48.079 that we do that. You know who who gave the 1774 01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:51.319 who was it? It was somebody locally who said and 1775 01:27:51.359 --> 01:27:52.520 it's going to come to me after I say it. 1776 01:27:52.520 --> 01:27:56.399 I think the best answer to is wrestling fake? Was 1777 01:27:56.720 --> 01:27:58.319 everything you see really happens? 1778 01:27:59.279 --> 01:27:59.720 Perfect? 1779 01:28:00.159 --> 01:28:03.479 Yeah, that's all that needs to be said. So it's fake, 1780 01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:06.199 right hey? And my response if I'm in the wrestling industry, 1781 01:28:06.239 --> 01:28:09.079 everything you see really happens, I mean what just that's 1782 01:28:09.119 --> 01:28:11.319 all you need to know. Then just enjoy it. And 1783 01:28:11.600 --> 01:28:12.960 the job of the promoter, of the wrestlers and the 1784 01:28:13.000 --> 01:28:17.800 bookers is to create an immersive, consistent narrative that draws 1785 01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:19.880 me into that universe. That's why we go into movie 1786 01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:22.199 theater and they turn off the lights and there aren't 1787 01:28:22.239 --> 01:28:24.439 windows because you don't want to be reminded of the 1788 01:28:24.439 --> 01:28:26.239 outside world when you're in a movie theater. That's a 1789 01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:29.600 distraction and there's a reason that the stunt men. I 1790 01:28:29.680 --> 01:28:32.199 sunging to Steve Bauston about this last week. The reason 1791 01:28:32.239 --> 01:28:34.800 that stunt men get paid pretty good money is because 1792 01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:38.439 Hollywood wants people to take bumps in movies that look real. 1793 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:41.680 Because you don't want people watching a movie to go, boy, 1794 01:28:41.760 --> 01:28:45.000 that looked fake or be remind you don't want to 1795 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:47.720 make a boom mic dangling in the picture. I think 1796 01:28:47.720 --> 01:28:49.600 it was, you know, like that's going to remind you 1797 01:28:49.640 --> 01:28:52.279 there's a microphone. These people that it's just it. It 1798 01:28:52.359 --> 01:28:56.119 is so amazing that the industry has devolved to the 1799 01:28:56.119 --> 01:29:00.439 point where they're so eager at every opportunity to break 1800 01:29:01.159 --> 01:29:03.720 character at the worst time. That doesn't serve the fans. 1801 01:29:03.760 --> 01:29:04.880 They should be serving the fans. 1802 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.399 Well you got on, you know, you take a look 1803 01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:09.600 at if some of the crowds as you talk about, 1804 01:29:09.640 --> 01:29:12.760 and the fans that they're serving. When people start chanting 1805 01:29:13.399 --> 01:29:17.319 about JDL, or they start chanting Michael Cole, Michael Cole 1806 01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:20.399 while an angle is going on in their board, nobody's 1807 01:29:20.479 --> 01:29:24.039 taking anything seriously. When when the fans are yelling you 1808 01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:27.680 aft up at a move, nobody's taking it seriously. And 1809 01:29:27.880 --> 01:29:30.279 when Stephanie McMahon comes out and the hugs her kids, 1810 01:29:30.279 --> 01:29:33.119 you know, right after. You know, on the pay per view, 1811 01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:37.039 nobody's taking it seriously from top to bottom. You know, 1812 01:29:37.479 --> 01:29:40.880 you could list a million reasons why people just look 1813 01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:43.800 at it as an event. They don't look at it 1814 01:29:43.840 --> 01:29:47.079 as anything serious and let's just go have a good time, 1815 01:29:47.159 --> 01:29:48.439 make some noise and who gives a. 1816 01:29:48.479 --> 01:29:52.680 Rat ask now? And I would even say, what if 1817 01:29:52.680 --> 01:29:56.560 it is just an event and just in entertainment experience, 1818 01:29:57.079 --> 01:29:59.239 at least do it well. And the way to do 1819 01:29:59.279 --> 01:30:01.920 it well, and if it's quote just that is to 1820 01:30:01.920 --> 01:30:05.119 have that consistent, immersive narrative that doesn't take you out 1821 01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:08.079 of the moment.

And that's what's frustrating. I think Stephan McMahon, 1822 01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:09.720 you know, you go to her Twitter page and it's 1823 01:30:09.720 --> 01:30:11.880 a bunch of pictures of her, and I shouldn't say 1824 01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:13.560 a bunch, but there's a lot of good things on 1825 01:30:13.560 --> 01:30:16.920 her Twitter feed, but there's pictures of her with sports 1826 01:30:16.920 --> 01:30:21.720 announcers and ESPN people and corporate corporate higher ups and 1827 01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:25.800 politicians stuff. It's like something about the Man family wants 1828 01:30:25.880 --> 01:30:29.279 to be so badly accepted as something more than just 1829 01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:32.479 pro wrastling promoters. And I think that it ends up 1830 01:30:32.520 --> 01:30:35.039 doing damage to the product because I think Stephanie goes 1831 01:30:35.039 --> 01:30:38.000 and hugs our kids as her way or posting on Twitter, 1832 01:30:38.319 --> 01:30:40.560 you know, here's me getting in character for my alter ego. 1833 01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:43.800 I think she does it because her actual target audience 1834 01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:46.680 in her job are those corporate people that she wants 1835 01:30:46.680 --> 01:30:49.600 to rub shoulders with, not serving the fans the best 1836 01:30:49.600 --> 01:30:51.520 product possible. And I don't even think it crosses her 1837 01:30:51.560 --> 01:30:54.119 mind that the actual people she should be serving are 1838 01:30:54.159 --> 01:30:56.319 the fans. And she would actually be more accepted in 1839 01:30:56.359 --> 01:31:01.880 corporate culture if she was proud and embraced and stayed 1840 01:31:01.880 --> 01:31:04.479 consistent with her character. And therefore I would argue to 1841 01:31:04.520 --> 01:31:06.479 draw more money in higher ratings. That's what's going to 1842 01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:09.199 get you accepted in Wall Street and corporate Yeah. 1843 01:31:09.319 --> 01:31:12.239 I completely agree with you. And it's a total disdain, 1844 01:31:12.800 --> 01:31:15.479 you know, for I think it's a disdain for professional 1845 01:31:15.479 --> 01:31:19.279 wrestling itself. And you know, when Vince says we're WWE, 1846 01:31:19.560 --> 01:31:23.000 we're entertainment, We're not wrestling. Don't use the word wrestling effort. 1847 01:31:23.319 --> 01:31:25.239 I think that pretty much says it all. And the 1848 01:31:25.319 --> 01:31:28.239 sad part about it, I think Stephanie McMahon, in her 1849 01:31:28.399 --> 01:31:34.119 role in her character is terrific. I know, yes, she's 1850 01:31:34.239 --> 01:31:38.159 very very you know, hateful, you know, you know, along 1851 01:31:38.199 --> 01:31:41.000 the lines of a Dixie Carter, although maybe not that hateful, 1852 01:31:41.039 --> 01:31:43.880 but I mean she's so good at what she does 1853 01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:46.399 and then the turn that switch and go out and 1854 01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:50.319 the huge your kids. You know, it just doesn't work 1855 01:31:50.359 --> 01:31:50.600 for me. 1856 01:31:51.560 --> 01:31:53.079 Let's do a couple of email questions make if you 1857 01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:53.560 got time? 1858 01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:54.279 Sure? 1859 01:31:54.479 --> 01:31:59.039 Okay. Scott from Jamesburg, New Jersey, just sent this one in. 1860 01:31:59.720 --> 01:32:01.800 I enjoying hearing Mack on the live cast. My question 1861 01:32:01.840 --> 01:32:05.000 relates to the AWA documentary on WWWA Network. Jerry Lawler 1862 01:32:05.039 --> 01:32:07.640 claimed he was never paid for Superclass three. Greg Gania 1863 01:32:07.880 --> 01:32:10.000 had a different memory. Can you shed them insight into 1864 01:32:10.039 --> 01:32:10.920 what happened at that time? 1865 01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:14.640 You know, I don't know because I've heard both stories, okay, 1866 01:32:14.640 --> 01:32:18.079 and it wasn't there. I've heard it mentioned over and 1867 01:32:18.159 --> 01:32:21.319 over again though that Lawler either wasn't paid or got 1868 01:32:21.359 --> 01:32:24.359 paid very little. Something had to happen. I mean, if 1869 01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:27.319 if Lawler all of a sudden there's no showing all 1870 01:32:27.359 --> 01:32:30.960 these events after SuperClash and you know, and they have 1871 01:32:31.119 --> 01:32:34.119 this falling out, something had to happen. Plus, if you 1872 01:32:34.199 --> 01:32:39.760 remember the live gate for that superclass was frendous. It 1873 01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:43.720 was absolutely horrible. And you know, and again a few 1874 01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:45.840 years ago, well more than a few maybe six seven, 1875 01:32:45.880 --> 01:32:51.560 eight years ago, at Califlower Alley, a somewhat inebriated Tavo Guerrero, 1876 01:32:52.680 --> 01:32:55.840 you know, is said to vern you know, and Verne, 1877 01:32:56.479 --> 01:32:59.760 maybe on purpose or maybe not, said he didn't ring 1878 01:32:59.800 --> 01:33:02.159 remember for who he was. But Chavo Guerrero is going 1879 01:33:02.239 --> 01:33:04.800 up and said, you never paid me for that event 1880 01:33:04.920 --> 01:33:08.039 in Chicago. So I guess if you're gonna believe one 1881 01:33:08.039 --> 01:33:09.960 way or the other, you know, you kind of believe 1882 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:13.640 the story that seems to be surfacing over and over again. 1883 01:33:14.199 --> 01:33:17.119 Clearly Greg is going to have a different story. But 1884 01:33:17.760 --> 01:33:19.520 you know, whether or not it happened that way, I 1885 01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:22.199 don't know I had. I was gone from the AWA 1886 01:33:22.319 --> 01:33:24.560 by then. But I've heard over and over again some 1887 01:33:24.720 --> 01:33:28.840 people very disgruntled their over their payoff or lack thereof. 1888 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:33.319 Another email from on Nelson, he says, how was Larry's 1889 01:33:33.319 --> 01:33:35.319 abisco as a w A champion and how would you 1890 01:33:35.359

--> 01:33:37.600 rank him? I've heard stories the only reason he was 1891 01:33:37.600 --> 01:33:39.279 a champion in the Nine Days of a w A 1892 01:33:39.399 --> 01:33:42.560 was because he was married to Verne's Vernkanya's daughter. You 1893 01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:44.279 can pretty much compare it to Triple H being married 1894 01:33:44.319 --> 01:33:46.960 devinsic Man's daughter Stephanie. I really hope the a w 1895 01:33:47.000 --> 01:33:48.600 A wrestling from the seventies to the end, well one 1896 01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:50.640 day show up on the WWW network. 1897 01:33:51.960 --> 01:33:56.399 I think considerably where the ADWA was when Larry came on. 1898 01:33:57.039 --> 01:34:00.079 I think he was a pretty good champion. You know, 1899 01:34:00.319 --> 01:34:03.640 there's people that will talk about Larry's actual inring ability. 1900 01:34:04.359 --> 01:34:06.960 I know he's got his detractors because Larry was a 1901 01:34:07.000 --> 01:34:10.000 lot about stalling, you know, and you could have a 1902 01:34:10.039 --> 01:34:13.159 twenty minute Larry's Obisco match ten minutes of it was falling. 1903 01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:16.279 I think at the time, you know, he was a 1904 01:34:16.279 --> 01:34:16.960 great talker. 1905 01:34:17.199 --> 01:34:19.279 Oh he was so good. Yeah, and he. 1906 01:34:19.359 --> 01:34:22.920 Had he had legend behind him. I mean, his reputation 1907 01:34:23.119 --> 01:34:27.119 preceded him, so clearly there was some credibility to Larry's Obisco. 1908 01:34:28.279 --> 01:34:30.439 He's one of the most underrated promo guys when you 1909 01:34:30.479 --> 01:34:32.760 count that Awa era especially. I mean he was the 1910 01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:34.199 reason to watch the shows at that time. 1911 01:34:34.760 --> 01:34:37.279 He was fantastic. I mean talking about Larry Land and 1912 01:34:37.279 --> 01:34:40.439 everything else. And I mean Larry's great, I mean the 1913 01:34:40.479 --> 01:34:43.239 gift of Gab was never his shortcoming. So I think, 1914 01:34:43.279 --> 01:34:45.920 you know, considering where the AWA was, I mean, whether 1915 01:34:45.920 --> 01:34:49.039 you were transitional champion doesn't really work because it was 1916 01:34:49.079 --> 01:34:51.399 a transition to basically shutting the doors. 1917 01:34:51.680 --> 01:34:52.560 Yeah, what happened? 1918 01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:56.880 I think you know, in the annals of aw A Wrestling, 1919 01:34:56.920 --> 01:34:59.920 I don't think it's really fair to compare Larry to 1920 01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:02.920 the Backwinkles and the Ganias and Crushers and mad Dog 1921 01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:05.600 because he didn't have that long to run with the scrap. 1922 01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:08.680 I think he was good for what he was when 1923 01:35:08.720 --> 01:35:09.079 he was. 1924 01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:18.720 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 1925 01:35:18.840 --> 01:35:21.920 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 1926

01:35:21.920 --> 01:35:24.279 your passion? Do you want to be topped off the 1927 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:26.720 ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the 1928 01:35:26.800 --> 01:35:29.199 heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a 1929 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:32.319 discussion on what AW is doing right and what they 1930 01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:35.159 could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me 1931 01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:38.119 Greg for the All of the Conversation Club every Friday 1932 01:35:38.159 --> 01:35:41.920 on the pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw Torch 1933 01:35:41.960 --> 01:35:44.840 in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily 1934 01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:48.239 Cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. 1935 01:35:48.520 --> 01:35:51.439 Find full details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 1936 01:35:51.680 --> 01:36:04.720 at PW Torchdailycast dot com. 1937 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:07.159 Tigers everything is that. And I don't think Larry got 1938 01:36:07.159 --> 01:36:09.239 the title because he was champion. I think Larry was 1939 01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:12.920 around to be given the title he deserved to have 1940 01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:15.399 because he was the best guy they had, because he 1941 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:17.800 was married to Verne's daughter. I don't think Larry would 1942 01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:20.039 have worked for the AWA or been affordable. He probably 1943 01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:22.720 would have been somewhere else at that time if he 1944 01:36:22.760 --> 01:36:25.039 wasn't married to the boss's daughter. But he was I 1945 01:36:25.079 --> 01:36:28.399 think probably universally seen as, if not the best choice, 1946 01:36:28.439 --> 01:36:29.800 one of the top two or three people to give 1947 01:36:29.800 --> 01:36:32.399 the bell to and be made eventing with during that era. 1948 01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:35.119 Well, and remember, I mean Larry's getting this title in 1949 01:36:35.159 --> 01:36:37.800 what nineteen eighty nine, nineteen ninety and he had actually, 1950 01:36:37.840 --> 01:36:39.640 you know, he had worked for the AWA back in 1951 01:36:39.680 --> 01:36:43.000 what eighty five when he first came in and they 1952 01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:45.720 gave him whatever championship that was back at the time. 1953 01:36:46.000 --> 01:36:48.119 I forget even what they called it. And then of 1954 01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:50.600 course his run with Scott Lead at Russell Rock and 1955 01:36:50.600 --> 01:36:54.279 seems like that. So Larry had established himself for about 1956 01:36:54.359 --> 01:36:58.199 five six years prior to getting the Strafts, so certainly 1957 01:36:58.239 --> 01:37:00.960 he you know, Mary Diverns, the didn't hurt, but I 1958 01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:03.640 agree with you he was the best choice at the time, 1959 01:37:03.680 --> 01:37:04.159 no doubt. 1960 01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:08.159 YEP. I also want this is also from Nelson. He says, 1961 01:37:08.720 --> 01:37:10.399 way back in the late nineteen eighties, could you have 1962 01:37:10.439 --> 01:37:12.640 ever envisioned seeing Paul Hayman having the career that he 1963 01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:15.079 is now having now with WWE and being the owner 1964 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:18.119 before that of ECW Mick. I've teased it, we talked 1965 01:37:18.159 --> 01:37:21.479 about it the DVD came out, documentary Paul Hayman's career. 1966 01:37:22.159 --> 01:37:25.600 You were around him sometimes during some of those early times. 1967 01:37:26.439 --> 01:37:28.399 Did you ever envision him going on to do what 1968 01:37:28.439 --> 01:37:28.800 he's done? 1969 01:37:29.720 --> 01:37:32.760 No? I mean I knew how brilliant he was back 1970 01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:35.039 at the time. And first of all, I got to say, 1971 01:37:35.079 --> 01:37:37.119 I haven't seen the DVD yet, but it's one that 1972 01:37:37.159 --> 01:37:38.359 I absolutely want. 1973 01:37:38.199 --> 01:37:38.560 To look at. 1974 01:37:38.720 --> 01:37:42.479 I've heard nothing but great things about it. Back when 1975 01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:45.399 Paul and Paul and I kind of had a similar 1976 01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:48.399 start in terms of taking pictures for the magazines and 1977 01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:51.760 writing stories for the Wrestling News and what have you, 1978 01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:55.520 and when Paul came in in eighty seven. I think 1979 01:37:55.520 --> 01:37:58.439 I've mentioned this before talking to you. He and I hit 1980 01:37:58.439 --> 01:38:01.760 it off right away, but talking to him at the time, 1981 01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:04.439 he would approach vern and Greg with a lot of 1982 01:38:04.520 --> 01:38:07.960 ideas and he was very frustrated that they wouldn't listen 1983 01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:10.640 to his ideas, you know, because they were kind of 1984 01:38:10.680 --> 01:38:13.079 set in their ways. I always knew he had a 1985 01:38:13.119 --> 01:38:15.439 great in mind for the business, you could tell, kind 1986 01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:19.279 of like Eddie Gilbert the same thing. Did I envision 1987 01:38:19.399 --> 01:38:23.159 him actually becoming such a key player in wrestling, No, 1988 01:38:23.880 --> 01:38:27.239 but more power to him. I just I'm thrilled for 1989 01:38:27.359 --> 01:38:30.359 the guy. I'm still waiting for my phone call, you know, 1990 01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:34.640 to replace Joey Styles, but I'm guessing that probably won't happen. 1991 01:38:35.720 --> 01:38:39.199 But I've got nothing but respect for Paul. I think 1992 01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:43.119 he's a genius. And yeah, more power to him. 1993 01:38:44.279 --> 01:38:48.520 The the early days of Paul Hayman and and what 1994 01:38:48.560 --> 01:38:51.119 you said about him and maybe having ideas that didn't 1995 01:38:51.159 --> 01:38:53.119 jell with Vernon Greg. There was a quote in the 1996 01:38:53.119 --> 01:38:55.920 documentary where Stephen McMahon said

something to the effect of 1997 01:38:56.000 --> 01:38:59.479 it took Paul Hayman what it took Paul a while 1998 01:38:59.600 --> 01:39:02.640 to real lies that he didn't he wasn't the boss. 1999 01:39:02.680 --> 01:39:04.720 He doesn't know own WWE and that he has to 2000 01:39:04.720 --> 01:39:07.520 answer to the mcmants that this is not his company. 2001 01:39:07.560 --> 01:39:09.199 She put it more concisly than I just did. But 2002 01:39:09.239 --> 01:39:10.800 it took Paul a while to realize this wasn't his 2003 01:39:10.840 --> 01:39:12.560 company and he had to do what we told him 2004 01:39:12.560 --> 01:39:14.920 to do. Paul's always had an issue with that because 2005 01:39:14.960 --> 01:39:19.199 Paul is crazy smart, and when it comes to professional wrestling, 2006 01:39:19.359 --> 01:39:22.279 it just he's in that top handful of people in 2007 01:39:22.359 --> 01:39:25.920 terms of historical knowledge and then staying with the times 2008 01:39:25.920 --> 01:39:29.119 and evolving with the times. A lot of people just 2009 01:39:29.239 --> 01:39:31.319 kind of pick an era that they think is the 2010 01:39:31.359 --> 01:39:34.199 way it should have been and the best time, and 2011 01:39:34.239 --> 01:39:37.439 when it changes, they kind of don't know how to adapt, 2012 01:39:37.479 --> 01:39:39.760 and that happens to bookers and promoters and wrestlers and 2013 01:39:39.840 --> 01:39:42.439 a lot of fans. Paul just evolves with times. He 2014 01:39:42.479 --> 01:39:45.199 doesn't even really like to look back at ECW and 2015 01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:48.680 have that be his defining time period because that was 2016 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:50.520 right for that moment in time. But he's moved on 2017 01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:54.000 and the documentary I think covers that well. But from 2018 01:39:54.520 --> 01:39:56.720 a talent standpoint, right now, Mike, we complained a lot 2019 01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:59.720 about Ron Monday, but Paul Hayman lately is you know 2020 01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:02.439 which about Larrzibisco in nineteen ninety being the reason to 2021 01:40:02.439 --> 01:40:05.239 tune into the AWA. He was still good during that stretch, 2022 01:40:05.479 --> 01:40:08.520 the reason to watch Raw if you hate everything else 2023 01:40:08.520 --> 01:40:11.760 about the company, at least DVR and and speed up 2024 01:40:11.960 --> 01:40:14.600 to the Paul Hayman promos because he did good promos 2025 01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:16.000 back in the AWA, back in the day. I mean, 2026 01:40:16.000 --> 01:40:18.079 you knew he was a good promo guy, but I 2027 01:40:18.119 --> 01:40:20.359 think he's doing the best work almost by far, of 2028 01:40:20.359 --> 01:40:20.880 his career. 2029 01:40:21.760 --> 01:40:24.520 He's amazing. And you know, back in the day the AWA, 2030 01:40:24.640 --> 01:40:26.159 you know, he'd come out and he'd cut a two 2031 01:40:26.199 --> 01:40:30.119 minute program or promo with Adrian Adonna's talking about Tommy 2032 01:40:30.119 --> 01:40:32.680 Wildfire Rich or whatever, and you know kind of when 2033 01:40:32.680 --> 01:40:34.800 he went to Cotton Mantle and expanded a little bit. 2034 01:40:35.199 --> 01:40:38.239 But my god, you give this guy a microphone and 2035 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:41.039 the like the promo he cut on Raw last Monday night, 2036 01:40:41.720 --> 01:40:45.199 you know, without the without teleprompters, without cute cards. He's 2037 01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:50.920 out there winging it for ten fifteen minutes NonStop, absolutely brilliant, 2038 01:40:51.279 --> 01:40:54.560 gets incredible heat, and you know he kind of treads 2039 01:40:54.640 --> 01:40:59.520 that fine line between you know, shoot and and yes. 2040 01:41:00.279 --> 01:41:03.479 And I am so entertained by him, and he continues 2041 01:41:03.520 --> 01:41:06.079 to be more amazing. Like you say, wait, every time 2042 01:41:06.159 --> 01:41:10.880 you hear him, he's mesmerizing. He's absolutely mesmerizing. And I just, uh, 2043 01:41:11.399 --> 01:41:12.840 I just get a huge kick out of it. 2044 01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:15.920 Whenever he's on the footage from the A W A 2045 01:41:16.039 --> 01:41:18.319 during his era, there's some good stuff and some not 2046 01:41:18.359 --> 01:41:20.960 some good stuff. But given what Paul Hayman has eventually 2047 01:41:20.960 --> 01:41:22.880 done in his career that I'm glad that there is 2048 01:41:22.880 --> 01:41:24.479 some footage of him in the WA that'll make it 2049 01:41:24.560 --> 01:41:25.199 under the network. 2050 01:41:26.119 --> 01:41:26.319 Yeah. 2051 01:41:26.399 --> 01:41:28.079 And it was fun back then too. I mean, not 2052 01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:30.039 only the Tommy Ridge thing, but when he brought in 2053 01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:32.000 Dennis Condri and or you know, when he was. 2054 01:41:32.039 --> 01:41:34.800 The original man that express Randy Rhodes, him and Randy 2055 01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:35.880 Roth and you. 2056 01:41:36.119 --> 01:41:38.640 Could see it back then, and uh, you know, and 2057 01:41:38.640 --> 01:41:42.159 and his AWA tenure was not that long. I mean 2058 01:41:42.199 --> 01:41:44.600 he was he was kind of in and gone pretty quickly. 2059 01:41:44.640 --> 01:41:47.159 And whether or not, that's a reflection of kind of 2060 01:41:47.199 --> 01:41:49.359 the same thing that Stephanie was saying. You know that 2061 01:41:49.479 --> 01:41:52.479 you know, he didn't mind his p's and q's necessarily 2062 01:41:52.479 --> 01:41:56.239 he had his ideas and and uh, you know they 2063 01:41:56.560 --> 01:42:00.199 weren't utilized or whatever. But you see the evolution motion 2064 01:42:00.359 --> 01:42:01.039 of this kid. 2065 01:42:01.640 --> 01:42:01.880 Kid. 2066 01:42:02.119 --> 01:42:04.800 I'm thinking back to eighty seven and it's just the 2067 01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:09.159 transformation and the staining power. He's phenomenal. He is really, 2068 01:42:09.720 --> 01:42:10.920

really a gifted guy. 2069 01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:14.199 We talked about Larry's Bisco's world title reign, and we 2070 01:42:14.279 --> 01:42:15.920 talk about, you know, kind of the the end of 2071 01:42:15.960 --> 01:42:19.600 the AWA. I don't think about this a lot because 2072 01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:21.119 it just it was kind of it just was kind 2073 01:42:21.119 --> 01:42:24.920 of a petering out of a w A but Super 2074 01:42:24.960 --> 01:42:26.800 Clash four. I think it was their last show ever 2075 01:42:26.840 --> 01:42:28.960 at the Saint Pacific Center. I looked it up here 2076 01:42:28.960 --> 01:42:32.520 online April eighth, nineteen ninety at the same Palcific Center, 2077 01:42:33.079 --> 01:42:37.640 Larry's Abisco against Mister Saiito with Nick Bockwinkle as the 2078 01:42:37.680 --> 01:42:40.000 special referee. Do you remember being at that show, Mick, 2079 01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:43.079 I'm sure I was, and for the life of me, 2080 01:42:43.159 --> 01:42:45.319 I couldn't tell you how, how the finish was or 2081 01:42:45.359 --> 01:42:48.359 anything else. I didn't miss too many shows back then, 2082 01:42:48.399 --> 01:42:49.520 so I'm sure I was there. 2083 01:42:49.560 --> 01:42:53.520 But yeah, that it's sad when I hear you talking 2084 01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:57.159 about things like that way because I know how absolutely 2085 01:42:57.880 --> 01:42:58.600 dead in the water. 2086 01:42:58.720 --> 01:42:59.479 The aw A. 2087 01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:01.720 Was a time, and you know, prior to that in 2088 01:43:01.840 --> 01:43:05.319 nineteen ninety June of ninety when they did the Twin 2089 01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:09.319 Wars ninety uh in Minneapolis, when they when they brought 2090 01:43:09.319 --> 01:43:12.279 in the Zubisco, when they brought in Nikita Koloff and 2091 01:43:12.279 --> 01:43:14.880 and Rick Flair and Brian Pillman. Yes, and the only 2092 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:16.800 drew about four thousands for that show. 2093 01:43:17.159 --> 01:43:17.359 Yep. 2094 01:43:18.119 --> 01:43:22.119 That that was another telling moment. You know what it's 2095 01:43:22.359 --> 01:43:23.640 we're getting close here, you know. 2096 01:43:24.039 --> 01:43:26.960 Yeah, I shot ring sight at that show and it 2097 01:43:27.079 --> 01:43:29.159 was a bloody Flair Pilman match, but you know, glad 2098 01:43:29.159 --> 01:43:30.159 I got to be there for it. But you know, 2099 01:43:30.159 --> 01:43:33.079 looking around the building, it was just this this sight 2100 01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:35.720 of so many great A w A moments and there's 2101 01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:38.720 Rick Flair and there's this upcoming Starbrian Pillman, and you're 2102 01:43:38.800 --> 01:43:42.680 just thinking, you know, looking at that, just sparse, scattered 2103 01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.760 crowd in this legendary building, this you know, historically significant building. 2104 01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:48.840 And it was that, you know, I mean, you know, 2105

01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.760 just drawing a couple thousand people for SuperClash four in 2106 01:43:51.800 --> 01:43:53.840 the lineup, I mean, it was the main event on 2107 01:43:53.920 --> 01:43:57.000 the show was the Trooper and Paul Diamond. The Trooper 2108 01:43:57.039 --> 01:43:58.840 was Del Wilkes, who would go on to be the Patriot, 2109 01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:02.319 and Paul I'm in against Destruction Crew, Mike Ynis and 2110 01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:04.079 Wayne Boom who had gone to be the Beverly Brothers. 2111 01:44:04.239 --> 01:44:05.800 That was the main event in a cage match that 2112 01:44:05.840 --> 01:44:07.439 followed the world title match because it took time to 2113 01:44:07.479 --> 01:44:10.079 set up in the cage. And then John Nord against 2114 01:44:10.119 --> 01:44:12.840 Copena Maximus who had gone to be Yo Kazuna. Tully 2115 01:44:12.840 --> 01:44:17.479 Blanchard against Tommy Dreamer or Tommy Jammer. Excuse me. Jammer 2116 01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:20.520 was a Eddie Sharky Trainey who worked indie shows and 2117 01:44:20.560 --> 01:44:23.279 I'm sure we're cheap that night, Baron von Rashki, one 2118 01:44:23.319 --> 01:44:24.960 of the last holdouts you know from some of the 2119 01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:28.760 Glory Days against Colonel the Beers, Texas Hangmen against Brad 2120 01:44:28.840 --> 01:44:32.479 Rings and the late DJ Peterson and Jake Milliman against 2121 01:44:32.479 --> 01:44:34.439 Todd Becker and the Opener. I mean, that's just that 2122 01:44:34.600 --> 01:44:38.079 just lineup just does not do justice to you know, 2123 01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:40.199 the a w A. And I don't it's not a show. 2124 01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:42.239 I'd want people to watch and get an idea that 2125 01:44:42.239 --> 01:44:43.880 that's what the a w A was about, because that 2126 01:44:44.039 --> 01:44:47.600 was I mean, it's just it's just it's it's it's 2127 01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:51.119 just a patchwork mix of available talent trying to put it. 2128 01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:53.119 You know, trying to put a name like SuperClash on 2129 01:44:53.159 --> 01:44:55.239 it and put it in the St. Palcivic Center and 2130 01:44:55.319 --> 01:44:59.279 help that Bockwinkle Intobisco in Saiedo and and and Baron 2131 01:45:00.119 --> 01:45:02.760 are enough to draw because nobody else there, you know, 2132 01:45:02.840 --> 01:45:04.600 really was a draw at that point. 2133 01:45:04.760 --> 01:45:08.079 It was sad. And you know, you've got the veterans, 2134 01:45:08.159 --> 01:45:10.520 like you said, like Nick and Baron, you know, kind 2135 01:45:10.560 --> 01:45:12.479 of hanging on at the end there, you know, Vern 2136 01:45:12.560 --> 01:45:15.359 going to the old Guard and then the undercard. As 2137 01:45:15.359 --> 01:45:20.840 you said, certainly your generation way of wrestling fans. That's 2138 01:45:20.840 --> 01:45:23.279 what a lot of people remember about the AWA. And 2139 01:45:23.359 --> 01:45:27.520 that is so sad because and this kind of shows 2140 01:45:27.800 --> 01:45:31.239 how quickly things spiraled downhill, because as I mentioned, you 2141 01:45:31.279 --> 01:45:34.920 go back just like four years to Wrestle Rock and 2142 01:45:35.000 --> 01:45:38.119 you look at that lineup of talent that they had, 2143 01:45:38.199 --> 01:45:40.920 and a couple of years even before that with Bruiser 2144 01:45:40.960 --> 01:45:44.399 Brody and Jerry Blackwell, and then you know, you guys 2145 01:45:44.479 --> 01:45:47.800 like this and all of a sudden nineteen ninety it's 2146 01:45:47.840 --> 01:45:50.359 not even a shell of what the AWA was. 2147 01:45:50.840 --> 01:45:54.439 It happened quickly, it unraveled. You know, it seemed long 2148 01:45:54.520 --> 01:45:55.960 at the time, you know, I mean, it was a 2149 01:45:56.039 --> 01:45:57.960 number of years, and there were a lot of careers 2150 01:45:57.960 --> 01:46:00.760 that got started and some that endedduring that time, but 2151 01:46:01.159 --> 01:46:05.840 it did unravel. And yeah, to me, Brody Blackwell in 2152 01:46:05.880 --> 01:46:07.359 the timeline, I have to I'd have to check your 2153 01:46:07.439 --> 01:46:10.039 tire's book, but Brody Blackwell was kind of maybe the 2154 01:46:10.119 --> 01:46:13.840 last truly great feud that drew in the AWA. 2155 01:46:14.960 --> 01:46:17.920 I would absolutely agree with that because I'm thinking even 2156 01:46:18.359 --> 01:46:21.079 wrestle rocks the matches that they well, you know what, 2157 01:46:21.159 --> 01:46:25.840 I guess maybe for singles matches, Brody Blackwell was probably 2158 01:46:25.880 --> 01:46:29.319 the greatest, the last of the great feuds. Yeah, taking feuds, 2159 01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:32.119 I think if you go into nineteen eighty six, one 2160 01:46:32.119 --> 01:46:35.800 that was really really underrated was the Rockers and Buddy 2161 01:46:35.880 --> 01:46:40.720 Rose and Doug Summers. Yes, and I'm but again, you know, 2162 01:46:40.800 --> 01:46:43.439 in the scheme of things, you know, to the national 2163 01:46:43.479 --> 01:46:46.520 wrestling fan who looks at the landscape of wrestling, as 2164 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:50.520 great as those matches were, the perception was, wow, this 2165 01:46:50.680 --> 01:46:54.159 is still you're still two three notches below what Vincent, 2166 01:46:54.359 --> 01:46:55.760 MWCW are doing. 2167 01:46:57.319 --> 01:46:58.920 Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to 2168 01:46:58.920 --> 01:47:02.399 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. 2169 01:47:02.560 --> 01:47:06.960 Subscription details at PW Torch dot com slash paper copy. 2170 01:47:07.159 --> 01:47:09.960 It's twelve pages every week, packed with my TV reports 2171 01:47:09.960 --> 01:47:12.520 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 2172 01:47:12.560 --> 01:47:14.800 the top story of the week, our pay per view 2173 01:47:14.880 --> 01:47:18.560 roundtable reviews from the Torch

staff, exclusive feature length columns 2174 01:47:18.560 --> 01:47:22.680 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and 2175 01:47:22.800 --> 01:47:26.560 Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. 2176 01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:30.520 PW Torch dot Com slash paper Copy. Take a break 2177 01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.800 from screen time and settle in every week with a 2178 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:36.840 megadosua wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 2179 01:47:36.880 --> 01:47:40.239 newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty twenty two. 2180 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:43.199 You can get a full year of home delivery for 2181 01:47:43.359 --> 01:47:46.399 just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight 2182 01:47:46.399 --> 01:47:53.159 week trial subscription. PW Torch dot Com slash paper Copy. 2183 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:59.039 Yeah, alright, it's the ESPN era, the Show Vote era, 2184 01:47:59.319 --> 01:48:03.159 and the Rock against Rosen Summers was along with Paul 2185 01:48:03.239 --> 01:48:06.600 Hayman promos and then later ons Ebiscal promos. There's a 2186 01:48:06.680 --> 01:48:09.000 few scattered things in the late eighties that made that 2187 01:48:09.159 --> 01:48:11.279 that were redeeming qualities about the a w A. And 2188 01:48:11.279 --> 01:48:12.960 there's probably more. If I went and looked back at 2189 01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:15.840 some of the results and stuff, you know, not too 2190 01:48:15.880 --> 01:48:21.479 many more. You're right, Larry Nelson's reaction to Tommy Rich 2191 01:48:21.640 --> 01:48:23.760 in the ring, where he got so giddy and excited 2192 01:48:23.800 --> 01:48:26.720 at one point, is one of the classic all time 2193 01:48:26.960 --> 01:48:30.960 you know, little little moments from that era. Larry Nelson's book. 2194 01:48:30.960 --> 01:48:33.920 I just read that on a road trip just a 2195 01:48:33.960 --> 01:48:37.359 few weeks ago and was just just what a what 2196 01:48:37.479 --> 01:48:39.239 an eye And I won't say eye opening, because nothing 2197 01:48:39.239 --> 01:48:41.760 shocks me about wrestling, but the specific of what went 2198 01:48:41.800 --> 01:48:44.079 on during his years in the a w A. And 2199 01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:47.760 I mean specifics, you know, in terms of who zipper 2200 01:48:47.880 --> 01:48:50.159 was being unzipped by whom, in what setting, in front 2201 01:48:50.199 --> 01:48:52.399 of whom at you know, after shows and stuff. It's 2202 01:48:52.439 --> 01:48:56.079 just crazy stuff. The the late Larry Nelson. I hate 2203 01:48:56.119 --> 01:48:59.439 to say he died earlier this summer, but to me, yeah, 2204 01:48:59.479 --> 01:49:01.479 I asked what the transition was and you kind of said, 2205 01:49:01.520 --> 01:49:03.960 you know, when the tapings moved, and I would say, 2206 01:49:04.000 --> 01:49:05.520 and I don't know how much it matches up pretty 2207 01:49:05.520 --> 01:49:08.319 well to me, The Rockers against Rose and Summers was 2208 01:49:08.359 --> 01:49:13.119 a different wrestling promotion than Brody Blackwell. The AWA that 2209 01:49:13.439 --> 01:49:16.800 hosted Brody Blackwell still to me, felt like the AWA. 2210 01:49:16.880 --> 01:49:19.119 Even though it was after Hogan and after Verne, it 2211 01:49:19.359 --> 01:49:22.119 felt like the AWA. It still had the remnants of 2212 01:49:22.199 --> 01:49:26.439 that seventies glory days and it was just something completely 2213 01:49:26.560 --> 01:49:30.119 different and almost hopeless when the Rockers were doing their thing. 2214 01:49:30.399 --> 01:49:32.760 Not unredeeming. There were still good things, but it was 2215 01:49:32.840 --> 01:49:34.560 hopeless in the sense that it is not the Major 2216 01:49:34.640 --> 01:49:37.000 League anymore. And when somebody says that their nose grows. 2217 01:49:37.520 --> 01:49:40.800 Well yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, of course, when 2218 01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:42.760 I was doing the stuff on ESPN, and you know 2219 01:49:42.880 --> 01:49:45.920 my intro whenever we came back from commercials more great 2220 01:49:46.039 --> 01:49:50.920 Major League Wrestling action, Okay, whatever, I think the transition there, 2221 01:49:50.960 --> 01:49:54.439 and you mentioned Brody and blackwell, that's perfect. You have 2222 01:49:54.560 --> 01:49:57.439 a transition now to young guys, you know headline in 2223 01:49:57.520 --> 01:49:59.560 your shows. I mean not only you know, guys likes 2224 01:49:59.600 --> 01:50:01.720 the Midden Rockers, but all of a sudden you're bringing 2225 01:50:01.800 --> 01:50:04.920 in a DJ Peterson or a Mix Snow. 2226 01:50:04.840 --> 01:50:08.640 Or guys like Jam Jam and Mitch Snow Jam and. 2227 01:50:08.680 --> 01:50:12.600 Mitch Snow God bless her. You know. It's uh, it 2228 01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:17.479 was almost like and this is not to denigrate indie wrestling, 2229 01:50:17.960 --> 01:50:21.439 but it was almost like a glorified indie promotion. After 2230 01:50:21.479 --> 01:50:24.640 a while, I know you still had your your remnants 2231 01:50:24.680 --> 01:50:28.439 of the main event guys, but in between, you know, 2232 01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:31.239 you had a lot of a lot of the younger guys, 2233 01:50:31.279 --> 01:50:34.039 you know, just getting started on the national scene or whatever. 2234 01:50:34.319 --> 01:50:36.920 So I agree with you completely. It was an entirely 2235 01:50:37.399 --> 01:50:40.159 different promotion than what we saw in nineteen eighty four. 2236 01:50:40.279 --> 01:50:42.279 And again, i'll take it as far as wressel Rock, 2237 01:50:43.039 --> 01:50:46.640 you know, into nineteen eighty six. To me, that's really 2238 01:50:46.760 --> 01:50:49.640 when things started to change a little bit. And even 2239 01:50:49.680 --> 01:50:53.079 Wrestle Rock, you know, you have Backwin Glen Hanson, uh, 2240 01:50:53.239 --> 01:50:55.920 you know, as a feud, but a lot of that 2241

01:50:56.159 --> 01:50:56.840 was patchwork. 2242 01:50:56.880 --> 01:51:01.039 To wrestaurant Resa Rock, I'm a little bit more willing 2243 01:51:01.079 --> 01:51:05.439 to say wrestle Rock was not was Wrestle Rock represented 2244 01:51:06.279 --> 01:51:11.319 a patients in a coma twitching a little like or 2245 01:51:11.439 --> 01:51:15.159 you know, it's probably not the best analogy, but something was. 2246 01:51:15.319 --> 01:51:18.479 It was like this last big effort to make a splash, 2247 01:51:18.640 --> 01:51:20.960 do a big show. They brought so many names in 2248 01:51:21.039 --> 01:51:22.920 from the outside because they didn't have the capacity to 2249 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:25.760 do their own super show, so there were all these 2250 01:51:25.880 --> 01:51:29.520 names being brought in from outside. The AWA territory. So 2251 01:51:29.840 --> 01:51:31.640 to me, that was a super show, but it wasn't 2252 01:51:31.640 --> 01:51:34.000 really an AWA show, even though the logo was stamped 2253 01:51:34.039 --> 01:51:36.319 on it to me, you know. And then and then 2254 01:51:36.359 --> 01:51:38.520 we had Jared Jared on last year on the show 2255 01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:41.199 and he talked in depth about progressing USA and the 2256 01:51:41.239 --> 01:51:43.600 attempt to do that, and he walked through and really 2257 01:51:43.680 --> 01:51:47.039 fascinating detail behind the scenes stuff with that, And that 2258 01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:49.920 also was kind of like when AWA did that, it 2259 01:51:50.039 --> 01:51:51.720 was sort of like, well, they can't stand on their own, 2260 01:51:51.800 --> 01:51:54.279 you know, they need other people in wrestle Rock wasn't 2261 01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:56.880 an AWA show where people paid to see the a 2262 01:51:57.079 --> 01:52:00.279 WA stars. It was the novelty of the dome, the 2263 01:52:00.359 --> 01:52:03.159 novelty of these stars from outside the territory coming in 2264 01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:08.640 and you know, Verne coming out of retirement. But it's yeah, 2265 01:52:08.920 --> 01:52:11.760 it was a big show. It was fun. I obsessed 2266 01:52:11.760 --> 01:52:13.520 about it for you know, a couple of months leading 2267 01:52:13.600 --> 01:52:14.880 up to it. I mean I was, I was an 2268 01:52:14.880 --> 01:52:17.960 a w A homer and absolutely loved thinking about it 2269 01:52:18.039 --> 01:52:20.000 and was hoping for a bigger crowd and all that. 2270 01:52:20.199 --> 01:52:24.159 But looking back historically, it feels like something other than 2271 01:52:24.560 --> 01:52:28.520 what Brody Blackwell to me is is lineage wise tied 2272 01:52:28.600 --> 01:52:32.279 to Vern and Nick and Crusher and Russell Rock had 2273 01:52:32.359 --> 01:52:34.000 some of those people on that show, but it didn't 2274 01:52:34.039 --> 01:52:35.439 feel like the same promotion anymore. 2275 01:52:35.680 --> 01:52:38.239 I agree, And as you know, what I was saying 2276 01:52:38.359 --> 01:52:40.640 is those matches too, there was a lot that was 2277 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:43.239 just kind of thrown together. I mean, you know, Windham 2278 01:52:43.279 --> 01:52:47.199 and Rotunda against against the sabulous Ones, Giant Boba and 2279 01:52:47.319 --> 01:52:50.560 Bulldog Bob Brown for him and Safe, Yes, I. 2280 01:52:50.600 --> 01:52:52.920 Mean he was even Race Martell, wasn't it. Race against 2281 01:52:52.920 --> 01:52:53.720 Martel was that. 2282 01:52:54.159 --> 01:52:57.239 Yes, and terrific match, But but what sense did it 2283 01:52:57.359 --> 01:52:59.840 make in the scheme of things outside of you know, 2284 01:53:00.119 --> 01:53:03.439 maybe Bockwingle and Hanson Again, you had kind of the 2285 01:53:03.479 --> 01:53:06.920 feud with between Larry's Ofbisco and Scotland Do so that's 2286 01:53:06.960 --> 01:53:09.680 a novelty match. But the rest of it, as you said, 2287 01:53:09.920 --> 01:53:12.359 was just bringing in names. And an argument could be 2288 01:53:12.479 --> 01:53:14.840 made that that was happening in nineteen eighty five two 2289 01:53:15.239 --> 01:53:17.840 with Pro Wrestling USA, where all of a sudden you're 2290 01:53:17.840 --> 01:53:20.279 bringing in your Terry Funks and your Bob Backlands and 2291 01:53:20.600 --> 01:53:24.279 your Sergeant Slaughters and whatever. So yeah, I think you 2292 01:53:24.359 --> 01:53:27.439 make a very valid point, and in terms of AWA lineage, 2293 01:53:27.680 --> 01:53:31.600 where it really still felt like THEAWA was nineteen eighty four. 2294 01:53:32.199 --> 01:53:34.239 Yeah, I think that was a cutoff point and it 2295 01:53:34.359 --> 01:53:37.399 became something else, and there were worthwhile things, exciting things, 2296 01:53:37.479 --> 01:53:40.800 things worth watching on the network. But if a WA 2297 01:53:41.199 --> 01:53:43.720 library makes it onto the network someday and somebody's listening 2298 01:53:43.800 --> 01:53:47.199 to this and they're watching eighty six and on, that's 2299 01:53:48.159 --> 01:53:52.279 that's that's more not the AWA than the end of Nitro. 2300 01:53:52.399 --> 01:53:55.479 And WW was not what Nitro was at the beginning, 2301 01:53:55.600 --> 01:53:57.800 you know, like I mean, the just the dying, the 2302 01:53:57.960 --> 01:54:01.119 dying months of w CW was just pathetic. But I 2303 01:54:01.159 --> 01:54:03.640 would say it was more more closely tied to the 2304 01:54:03.680 --> 01:54:05.920 glory days of Nitro than even the late eighties were 2305 01:54:06.000 --> 01:54:07.520 to the early eighties of a WAT. 2306 01:54:07.640 --> 01:54:09.560 And you know, for an AWA guy, you know, like 2307 01:54:09.640 --> 01:54:12.520 myself and George and guys you grew up with it, 2308 01:54:12.800 --> 01:54:14.159 it was really painful. 2309 01:54:14.600 --> 01:54:15.640 I mean, yes, it was. 2310 01:54:16.079 --> 01:54:18.600 It was brutal to watch, and it was brutal to 2311 01:54:18.680 --> 01:54:21.079 be there towards the end two

Yeah, and. 2312 01:54:21.159 --> 01:54:22.960 It had to be tough on Vernon, Greg, you know, 2313 01:54:23.680 --> 01:54:26.880 oh yeah, they burned through a lot of money. You know, 2314 01:54:27.000 --> 01:54:28.880 I mean I don't think great, I mean, I don't 2315 01:54:28.880 --> 01:54:31.239 think Greg sold cars for years because it's what he 2316 01:54:31.319 --> 01:54:33.399 wanted to be doing, you know, I mean, you know, 2317 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:35.319 I mean it this was these were people who were 2318 01:54:35.359 --> 01:54:38.600 local celebrities, riding high you know, Vern's home on Lake Minnetonka, 2319 01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:41.079 which is a very expensive, prestigious place to live in 2320 01:54:41.119 --> 01:54:44.199 the Twin Cities, and and and to be you know, 2321 01:54:44.359 --> 01:54:46.840 the talk of the town and celebrities, and to have 2322 01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:51.359 it just crumble so quickly, you know, I mean, you 2323 01:54:51.520 --> 01:54:54.560 go from eighty three and eighty four when things were 2324 01:54:54.600 --> 01:54:58.279 still pretty damn good. It was just it's for I mean, 2325 01:54:58.319 --> 01:55:01.359 it really is Vince mcmahonum in buying up the talent. 2326 01:55:01.479 --> 01:55:04.239 I mean, you can't, it's not There's so many things 2327 01:55:04.279 --> 01:55:07.560 you can blame Vernon Greg for in AWA, for being 2328 01:55:07.600 --> 01:55:10.399 their own worst enemy at times, but it really was. 2329 01:55:10.720 --> 01:55:13.359 It really it's hard to you have to say. The 2330 01:55:13.439 --> 01:55:15.920 number one reason was somebody came in and just hired 2331 01:55:15.920 --> 01:55:16.880 away the heart of the company. 2332 01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:21.479 You got to remember and talk about, you know, how 2333 01:55:21.720 --> 01:55:24.159 it had to be embarrassing for them, basically because you 2334 01:55:24.279 --> 01:55:27.520 mentioned the hometown celebrity and the AWA. I mean, you're 2335 01:55:27.560 --> 01:55:30.880 in business for how many years, you know, rock solid 2336 01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:33.119 at the top, and that's all he talked about it. 2337 01:55:33.119 --> 01:55:36.079 And then all of a sudden, so fast, and I 2338 01:55:36.199 --> 01:55:39.840 mean it really was quickly, everything is crumbling, and the 2339 01:55:40.199 --> 01:55:43.960 spotlight was on vern I think on the AWA, the 2340 01:55:44.079 --> 01:55:48.359 legacy of the AWA. Vince makes some reference to everybody 2341 01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:51.720 was expecting the great vern Gania to come up with 2342 01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:54.000 some formula that was going to even up the odds 2343 01:55:54.039 --> 01:55:57.319 and maybe send the WWF packing, and he didn't do it, 2344 01:55:57.479 --> 01:56:00.319 and then you know it just oneing after another, boom 2345 01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:04.119 boom boom and mushroomed and yeah, very very sad. I 2346 01:56:04.359 --> 01:56:06.359 just you know that that's

kind of why I live 2347 01:56:06.439 --> 01:56:08.720 in the past and watch as much AWA stuff as 2348 01:56:08.760 --> 01:56:10.720 I can, because you know. 2349 01:56:10.960 --> 01:56:11.960 That that was it for me. 2350 01:56:12.199 --> 01:56:13.239 In a sense. It still is. 2351 01:56:14.319 --> 01:56:17.760 Yeah, Mick, thank you. When we talk a w A, 2352 01:56:17.880 --> 01:56:19.359 the time flies by, even when we talk about the 2353 01:56:19.399 --> 01:56:21.600 bad era of the a w A in the end 2354 01:56:21.640 --> 01:56:25.000 of it, but it is. I think it's almost therapeutic 2355 01:56:25.199 --> 01:56:28.000 to talk to somebody about it, you know, the the 2356 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:31.640 crumbling years from I guess we've decided eighty five on 2357 01:56:32.920 --> 01:56:34.520 and to kind of put it in perspective. But I 2358 01:56:35.039 --> 01:56:37.039 think it's a service to people who want to know 2359 01:56:37.079 --> 01:56:38.880 wrestling history. The a w A was one of the 2360 01:56:38.920 --> 01:56:41.039 Big three. You don't hear the term big three anymore. 2361 01:56:41.079 --> 01:56:44.039 There's probably fans who considered themselves longtime fans who have 2362 01:56:44.800 --> 01:56:47.359 never uttered the words in the conversation about pro wrestling 2363 01:56:47.600 --> 01:56:50.239 Big three. And it's amazing, you know, but we're that 2364 01:56:50.319 --> 01:56:53.439 far removed from there being a Big three. A w 2365 01:56:53.600 --> 01:56:55.720 A is one of them because they didn't murder it, 2366 01:56:55.760 --> 01:56:57.880 because it didn't evolve into ww and get bought out 2367 01:56:57.880 --> 01:57:01.399 by WWF. They of UA history just doesn't get the 2368 01:57:01.439 --> 01:57:05.159 same attention that w W and the nw A get. 2369 01:57:05.720 --> 01:57:09.960 Yeah, it's it's very sad, but you know, the historians 2370 01:57:10.079 --> 01:57:13.960 like like you keeping it alive and bringing the bringing 2371 01:57:14.000 --> 01:57:16.439 it back to the forefront. You know, I really appreciate 2372 01:57:16.479 --> 01:57:17.960 it every time I get a chance to be on 2373 01:57:18.079 --> 01:57:19.960 with you. Wait, not a lot of people that could 2374 01:57:19.960 --> 01:57:22.640 sit and talk a w A, and so it's it's 2375 01:57:22.720 --> 01:57:25.159 kind of frustrating for me, and and this is great. 2376 01:57:25.319 --> 01:57:28.199 I really appreciate. I have a blast every time I'm on. 2377 01:57:28.319 --> 01:57:29.560 With you real quick. 2378 01:57:29.760 --> 01:57:29.880 I know. 2379 01:57:29.920 --> 01:57:31.560 We talked about Jake Roberts earlier at the show with 2380 01:57:31.640 --> 01:57:33.439 him Saturday. We wish him well. There's a lot of 2381 01:57:33.479 --> 01:57:37.199 reports that that he is in ICU and in bad 2382 01:57:37.319 --> 01:57:41.439 shape because of uh that he's been thick for a 2383 01:57:41.479 --> 01:57:45.000 couple of weeks and it could be double pneumonia. TMZ 2384

01:57:45.159 --> 01:57:46.800 is on the story right now too, So we wish 2385 01:57:46.880 --> 01:57:48.840 Jake the best. A friend of the Live cast did 2386 01:57:48.880 --> 01:57:50.920 a great interview with us earlier this year. Make you 2387 01:57:51.000 --> 01:57:53.000 at a chance to him on on on Saturday Night? 2388 01:57:53.039 --> 01:57:54.000 How did he appear to you? 2389 01:57:55.000 --> 01:57:57.960 You know, something was wrong and and I mean again 2390 01:57:58.279 --> 01:58:00.399 to the point where I really couldn't know what was 2391 01:58:00.479 --> 01:58:03.039 going on, because with Jake you never know. But he 2392 01:58:03.399 --> 01:58:06.720 really seemed real fidgety, and then he had a couple 2393 01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:09.560 of coughing Jakes. He didn't look really good. I know, 2394 01:58:09.720 --> 01:58:11.880 he said that his back hurt and he was really 2395 01:58:11.960 --> 01:58:13.800 really tired. I mean, it got to the point where 2396 01:58:14.319 --> 01:58:16.640 there was going to be a Piper's fit with Jake, 2397 01:58:17.079 --> 01:58:19.079 and we were thinking, hey, do we really want Jake 2398 01:58:19.159 --> 01:58:19.760 to go out there? 2399 01:58:19.840 --> 01:58:20.520 This isn't good. 2400 01:58:20.920 --> 01:58:24.720 Well he went out there, but clearly, yes, something was wrong. 2401 01:58:24.800 --> 01:58:27.279 And if he stabbed double pneumonia, if it was you know, 2402 01:58:27.359 --> 01:58:30.079 four or five days ago, I could absolutely see that 2403 01:58:30.199 --> 01:58:32.640 it was starting in back back a week ago. 2404 01:58:33.239 --> 01:58:36.840 Yeah, and but good experiences with Piper, any any fun 2405 01:58:36.920 --> 01:58:37.600 stories or anything. 2406 01:58:37.960 --> 01:58:40.319 Yeah, I mean I I just I couldn't really get 2407 01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:41.279 too close to him. 2408 01:58:42.359 --> 01:58:45.159 The line of the smell, what's yet, because of the 2409 01:58:45.199 --> 01:58:48.560 smell very hardy, very dry. 2410 01:58:48.960 --> 01:58:49.079 Uh. 2411 01:58:49.600 --> 01:58:53.359 There was a line for his autograph, oh, okay, a 2412 01:58:53.479 --> 01:58:57.239 mile long at the meet and greet. But he was very, 2413 01:58:57.439 --> 01:59:01.039 very amiable, very friendly. Just talk to him real briefly, 2414 01:59:01.159 --> 01:59:03.800 and I had him sign something for me a photo 2415 01:59:03.880 --> 01:59:07.000 we had taken at Collie Flower Alley Club. It looked 2416 01:59:07.039 --> 01:59:08.760 like he was happy to be there. And he went 2417 01:59:08.840 --> 01:59:11.359 out and he did his pipers fit with Jake, and 2418 01:59:11.399 --> 01:59:14.199 then Mitch Paradise got involved, and I think I think 2419 01:59:14.279 --> 01:59:15.960 Roddy had a pretty good time. As a matter of 2420 01:59:16.000 --> 01:59:18.079 fact that at the end of the night, after the show, 2421 01:59:18.159 --> 01:59:20.479 he came out and signed autographs for another half an hour, 2422 01:59:20.600 --> 01:59:22.119 so I think it was a good night for him. 2423 01:59:22.279 --> 01:59:23.800 That's cool. And how about hardcore Holly? 2424 01:59:24.640 --> 01:59:27.720 Hardcore Holly. I didn't get a chance to talk to Okay, 2425 01:59:28.359 --> 01:59:31.319 he looked like he was kind of in a bad mood, 2426 01:59:31.359 --> 01:59:34.479 although that was just me from a distance. But he 2427 01:59:34.640 --> 01:59:37.439 wrestled this Luke Hawk's kid that I had mentioned earlier 2428 01:59:38.520 --> 01:59:43.520 and actually put Luke Haawks over, but very appreciative crowd 2429 01:59:43.880 --> 01:59:45.920 for Holly. They gave him a standing ovation and he 2430 01:59:46.039 --> 01:59:49.720 actually came back to the ring and I acknowledged the crowd. 2431 01:59:49.800 --> 01:59:51.439 So good effort from him in the ring, I mean, 2432 01:59:51.520 --> 01:59:53.640 like a good veteran effort putting over a young guy. 2433 01:59:54.199 --> 01:59:57.279 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, they you know, I mean they were 2434 01:59:57.359 --> 02:00:00.319 trading chops pretty good in there, you know, the Holly chops. Yes, 2435 02:00:00.479 --> 02:00:03.720 and yeah, he worked hard. I thought it was very, 2436 02:00:03.880 --> 02:00:04.239 very good. 2437 02:00:04.359 --> 02:00:06.479 He's a regular on this show and he is the 2438 02:00:06.640 --> 02:00:09.399 nicest person in the universe when he's on our show. 2439 02:00:09.760 --> 02:00:11.319 And then there's people who have been around him over 2440 02:00:11.359 --> 02:00:13.680 the years who are like, who is that guy impersonating 2441 02:00:13.720 --> 02:00:15.680 Bob Holly who keeps coming on your show? Because that's 2442 02:00:15.720 --> 02:00:17.680 not the Bob I knew. So I'm trying to figure out, 2443 02:00:17.760 --> 02:00:20.079 you know, did he change or is it just he 2444 02:00:20.279 --> 02:00:21.960 likes me but nobody else in the world, Like, I 2445 02:00:22.000 --> 02:00:24.720 can't figure it out, but yeah, it's it's it's good 2446 02:00:24.760 --> 02:00:27.199 to hear that, even though he looked grumpy, that he 2447 02:00:27.359 --> 02:00:29.159 put in a good effort to put over a local guy. 2448 02:00:29.359 --> 02:00:31.720 Final final guys, Steiners, do you have any any stories 2449 02:00:31.720 --> 02:00:32.800 from them? Or any observations. 2450 02:00:33.239 --> 02:00:35.039 Well, the only things that I would I would say, 2451 02:00:35.039 --> 02:00:36.800 and I didn't get a chance to talk guy either 2452 02:00:36.880 --> 02:00:39.600 dam Scott Steiner or Scott Steiner. I mean as as 2453 02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:42.840 he usually is Rick Steiner. If you haven't seen him 2454 02:00:42.880 --> 02:00:46.039 for a while or haven't seen a picture of him, 2455 02:00:46.039 --> 02:00:49.439 you're not going to recognize Rick Steiner look completely different, 2456 02:00:49.560 --> 02:00:51.039 looked like he'd lost a lot of weight. As matter 2457 02:00:51.079 -->

02:00:53.800 of fact, he wrestled in a T shirt instead of 2458 02:00:53.880 --> 02:00:56.560 the instead of the single it. I was told that 2459 02:00:56.640 --> 02:00:58.720 he got hurt at some point in the match, something 2460 02:00:58.840 --> 02:01:04.199 happened will leg or something. But I mean they worked. 2461 02:01:04.279 --> 02:01:06.920 I mean, you know again, you know what Scott Steiner match, 2462 02:01:07.000 --> 02:01:09.279 you know what it's going to be. And the guys 2463 02:01:09.319 --> 02:01:11.479 that they work were a couple of big powerhouses from 2464 02:01:11.520 --> 02:01:14.199 the local area here, the Black Stallion and John Johnson. 2465 02:01:14.640 --> 02:01:16.720 So not a lot of finesse, just a lot of 2466 02:01:16.760 --> 02:01:19.600 punch kick, but pretty solid, pretty solid match. 2467 02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:21.800 Cool well, Mike, thanks, I want to be a couple 2468 02:01:21.880 --> 02:01:23.640 more notes in there, and you know, just acknowledge the 2469 02:01:23.720 --> 02:01:25.319 Jake situation because I know you were around them just 2470 02:01:25.680 --> 02:01:28.760 a few days ago. So sure, very good. Make thanks 2471 02:01:28.800 --> 02:01:31.279 as always with a tour mark and I couldn't be 2472 02:01:31.319 --> 02:01:33.239 more appreciative of the time you've given us and great 2473 02:01:33.279 --> 02:01:36.439 conversation and we were all over the place, wide, wide 2474 02:01:36.479 --> 02:01:38.800 range of topics. But that's what's great about having you 2475 02:01:38.840 --> 02:01:39.159 on the show. 2476 02:01:39.840 --> 02:01:42.920 Thank you, Wade. I really appreciate it and continued success 2477 02:01:42.960 --> 02:01:44.279 and we'll see you soon. 2478 02:01:44.520 --> 02:01:46.920 I hope to see a Saturday. I'll be on Saturday. 2479 02:01:48.000 --> 02:01:48.439 We'll see you. 2480 02:01:48.520 --> 02:01:50.560 That sounds good. Thanks all to me. I have you 2481 02:01:50.640 --> 02:01:53.000 members for joining us and on behalf the mccarshwaight Keller 2482 02:01:53.119 --> 02:01:53.560 signing off. 2483 02:02:10.880 --> 02:02:13.359 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions 2484 02:02:13.439 --> 02:02:16.720 or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at 2485 02:02:16.840 --> 02:02:21.319 pewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. 2486 02:02:21.520 --> 02:02:24.199 Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on 2487 02:02:24.319 --> 02:02:28.039 Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the Wadekeller 2488 02:02:28.359 --> 02:02:31.479 That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller. 2489 02:02:33.479 --> 02:02:36.479 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. 2490 02:02:36.640 --> 02:02:40.159 Jason Powell host them the free weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. 2491 02:02:40.560 --> 02:02:42.840 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from 2492 02:02:42.920 --> 02:02:44.960 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot Net along 2493 02:02:45.000 --> 02:02:47.960 with other pro wrestling media members, plus the Pro Wrestling 2494 02:02:47.960 --> 02:02:51.319 Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2495 02:02:51.359 --> 02:02:55.239 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all 2496 02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:58.640 your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW 2497 02:02:58.840 --> 02:03:02.600 boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 2498 02:03:04.399 --> 02:03:06.319 Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we 2499 02:03:06.399 --> 02:03:10.920 also have a website pw toorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 2500 02:03:11.279 --> 02:03:14.319 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown 2501 02:03:14.560 --> 02:03:18.279 and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. 2502 02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:20.880 Create a tab or bookmark, make it a daily stop. 2503 02:03:21.039 --> 02:03:23.159 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 2504 02:03:23.239 --> 02:03:27.279 on breaking news and more. 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