Dr. Gerald Pollack: Diving into the Mysteries of Water's Fourth Phase and its Revolutionary Health Implications의 전체 녹취록

the book completely ignores it. 00:02:45.288 --> 00:02:55.060 And the mechanisms that are described are based on the presumption that water doesn't exist or water does nothing. 00:02:55.060 --> 00:03:05.406 It's merely a background carrier of the more important molecules of life, like proteins and the nucleic acids and such of life like proteins and the nucleic acids and such. 00:03:05.406 --> 00:03:11.669 So we get the impression that all the water does is it's just a solvent. 00:03:11.669 --> 00:03:12.150 That's all. 00:03:12.150 --> 00:03:13.031 It doesn't do anything. 00:03:13.031 --> 00:03:17.552 But what we found challenges that notion in a big way. 00:03:18.493 --> 00:03:19.974 Right, it really does. 00:03:19.974 --> 00:03:25.038 So, kind of moving on to the first question is how did you begin studying water? 00:03:25.038 --> 00:03:27.883 How did you find that path? 00:03:29.586 --> 00:03:35.275 oh well, um, uh, where where to start? 00:03:35.275 --> 00:04:11.514 Well, we had been, we had been engaged in studying the molecular mechanism of muscle contraction and, um, and, and the mechanism that everybody has learned, everybody knows about, was put forth by a famous, ultra-famous Nobel laureate, sir Andrew Huxley, who was he had every distinction not only a member of the famous Huxley family, but also president of the Royal Society, master of Trinity College, cambridge, knighted by the Queen, etc. 00:04:11.514 --> 00:04:11.634 Etc. 00:04:11.634 --> 00:04:14.268 And when he walked into the room there was a hush. 00:04:14.268 --> 00:04:28.014 It was like God has entered the room, and the work that we were doing challenged his theory because the results didn't fit. 00:04:28.014 --> 00:04:44.927 And so at that point I did learn a little bit about the process of doing science and how paying homage to distinguished people carried a lot of weight, because we had the evidence that theory didn't work. 00:04:44.927 --> 00:04:58.925 And, um, but, but the people in the field, um, there was a tendency to cling to, uh, to the ideas that that he was espousing, because he was, you know, he was this distinguished man. 00:04:58.925 --> 00:05:01.151 So so I, I was sort of open. 00:05:01.151 --> 00:05:22.654 I became open to um, alternative ideas and, and one day, um, as we were studying the muscle contraction, a colleague, I just picked him up from the airport and I was driving him and his wife from the airport to my home where they were going to stay until they could find a place to live in Seattle. 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.000 This Hungarian guy, he tells me, you know, you should go to Hungary. 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:39.790 There's going to be a symposium in Hungary and the symposium was dedicated to the memory of a guy named a biophysicist, named Ernst. 00:05:39.790 --> 00:05:46.172 And he was telling me Ernst had two passions One was muscle contraction and the other was water. 00:05:46.172 --> 00:05:53.555 And his ideas on muscle contraction pretty much

conformed to yours, he was telling me. 00:05:53.555 --> 00:06:00.086 He was convinced that Huxley's theory was all wet, it was just absolutely wrong. 00:06:00.086 --> 00:06:02.507 And he said, why don't you go? 00:06:02.507 --> 00:06:03.831 And you can represent muscle. 00:06:03.831 --> 00:06:10.524 At the same time, his interests were also in water and there's a group of people coming to the conference to talk about water. 00:06:10.524 --> 00:06:14.307 So I say, why not? 00:06:14.307 --> 00:06:15.826 I like Hungary. 00:06:15.826 --> 00:06:17.446 I'll take a trip to Hungary. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:36.447 And I hadn't realized what kind of impact my trip would make, because there I met a guy named Gilbert Ling, l-i-n-g and a bunch of people who were going to present ideas that supported the views of Gilbert Ling. 00:06:36.447 --> 00:06:37.725 So who's Gilbert Ling? 00:06:37.725 --> 00:06:40.048 You've probably never heard of Gilbert Ling. 00:06:40.048 --> 00:06:45.367 So Gilbert Ling came from china. 00:06:45.367 --> 00:06:55.697 He was chosen in the first cohort of people um throughout all of china to come after world war ii it was 1948, by the way. 00:06:55.697 --> 00:06:58.903 He passed recently at age 100 um. 00:06:59.483 --> 00:07:09.120 So they looked all around china and they looked for one person in physics, one chemistry and one biology throughout all of China. 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:19.196 So you can imagine these were top-level people who had already achieved something and were going to be sent to the US to study in famous laboratories. 00:07:19.196 --> 00:07:25.913 And one of them, the physicist CN Yang, won a Nobel Prize in physics. 00:07:25.913 --> 00:07:44.673 And actually he became even more famous, for when he was in his 80s he married his 30-year-old translator and so it was a lot of stuff that went around the press in China. 00:07:44.673 --> 00:07:46.788 But anyway he won a nobel prize. 00:07:46.788 --> 00:07:51.372 The chemist was distinguished and one of my chinese students said he also won a nobel prize. 00:07:51.372 --> 00:07:52.161 I'm not sure. 00:07:52.161 --> 00:07:59.564 And gilbert ling should have won at least two nobel prizes, like the others um, because of what he was presenting. 00:07:59.603 --> 00:08:04.836 So his idea, which moved me, which had a big impact on me. 00:08:04.836 --> 00:08:06.740 The question was how did I get involved with water? 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:11.209 He said that water in the cell was not the same as water in the glass. 00:08:11.209 --> 00:08:20.932 So water in the glass, you know, the molecules are dancing around, randomly oriented, dancing at a furious rate. 00:08:20.932 --> 00:08:24.908 And the gilbert ling said, no, no, in the cell the water is different. 00:08:24.908 --> 00:08:30.331 He said the molecules are actually lined up like soldiers at attention, they're organized. 00:08:30.331 --> 00:08:43.851 He called it structured, structured water and he presented evidence that really uh,

that was that was really convincing to me, and he'd already written three or four books, uh on on the subject. 00:08:44.133 --> 00:08:49.386 And then other people came and presented evidence that were consistent with his point of view. 00:08:49.386 --> 00:09:01.142 And you know I'm thinking about it and I consider myself a little bit naive and sometimes I'm deluded by fancy presentations and such. 00:09:01.142 --> 00:09:12.681 I was really mesmerized by this stuff and in order to check myself out, I took one of his books and I gave it to a few of my students and I said, hey, what do you think of this stuff? 00:09:12.681 --> 00:09:19.533 For me it was so compelling that I had this urge to get into the subject myself. 00:09:19.533 --> 00:09:35.087 And they came back to me and they all had the same opinion yeah, this looks not only like it has the ring of truth to it, but it's profound, because if it's right, everything else is wrong. 00:09:35.087 --> 00:09:39.208 Everything else in biology, in other words, if the molecules were lined up. 00:09:39.208 --> 00:09:52.474 He was saying that they were lined up like each water molecule is a dipole, like a bean, with plus at one end, minus at one end, and so you can imagine that they could stack minus next to plus. 00:09:52.474 --> 00:10:05.059 And Gilbert argued that they could stack for long distances and the evidence presented, not only by him but by others, was really compelling. 00:10:06.683 --> 00:10:14.910 So when my students reaffirmed what I believed, I said to myself I got to do something about this. 00:10:14.910 --> 00:10:28.510 We've been studying muscle contraction, trying to make headway, and we made some, but mostly the Huxley name was so dominant that it was just impossible to break through that barrier. 00:10:28.510 --> 00:10:36.710 Which was okay because I did learn something about doing science and what matters and what doesn't matter and the human aspects of it. 00:10:36.710 --> 00:10:38.725 So I decided to get in. 00:10:38.725 --> 00:10:47.825 We had no money to study water, we had some money to study muscles and so I decided the first thing I was going to do is write a book, and I did. 00:10:47.825 --> 00:10:54.644 It's called Sales Gels and the Engines of Life, published in 2001. 00:10:54.683 --> 00:11:24.322 And the book made an attempt to describe Gilbert Ling's idea and evidence in a way that was approachable to non-experts, because Gilbert Ling had a habit I'm not sure if this is exactly accurate, but I think he'd sit down at the word processor or at a typewriter before that, he'd bat out something and he'd send it to the publisher and the publisher would publish it and Gilbert Ling could understand it. 00:11:24.322 --> 00:11:36.900 But other people had a devil of a time figuring out what he was trying to say and I I came to a sort of a conclusion that maybe in China, in the Chinese language, maybe, the word editing is absent. 00:11:36.900 --> 00:11:42.393 I'm not sure, but I don't think he ever, he ever put his stuff through an editor. 00:11:42.393 --> 00:11:47.471 You, you, you really had to scratch your head as you were pouring through it to get it. 00:11:47.471 --> 00:11:58.225 Anyway, I'm not sure I got it all, but I made an attempt and the book it was how I sort of broke into it and the book got mixed reviews. 00:11:58.225 --> 00:12:04.993 Some reviews said, oh, pay no attention to this book because it's just more of Gilbert Ling. 00:12:04.993 --> 00:12:07.684 Reviews said, oh, pay no attention to this book because it's just more of Gilbert Ling. 00:12:07.745 --> 00:12:12.504 And everybody knows that Gilbert Ling is a crackpot because he's saying that the water in the cell is a different kind of water. 00:12:12.504 --> 00:12:15.211 It's more like a crystal or a liquid crystal or something. 00:12:15.211 --> 00:12:17.403 It makes no sense. 00:12:17.403 --> 00:12:19.110 Therefore, forget this book. 00:12:19.110 --> 00:12:27.345 On the other hand, there were some really positive reviews, and one guy from Harvard, a well-known cell biologist, wrote that quote. 00:12:27.345 --> 00:12:31.577 This is a 304-page preface to the future of cell biology. 00:12:31.577 --> 00:12:44.851 I like that one better. 00:12:44.851 --> 00:12:47.595 So anyway, eventually, or soon to. 00:12:48.155 --> 00:13:04.744 What I've said is that all along I thought something not only was wrong with the accepted model about how muscles contract, the Huxley model, but there was something that I had an Israeli guy in the lab. 00:13:04.744 --> 00:13:09.346 His name was Reuven Tiroch and he kept telling me water is important, water is important. 00:13:09.346 --> 00:13:14.489 Looks at the mechanism of muscle contraction that you could read in textbooks. 00:13:14.489 --> 00:13:32.240 Water is not mentioned. 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:41.405 So it's as though the proteins that undergo conformational changes to produce the contraction, they work in a vacuum. 00:13:41.405 --> 00:13:52.881 They don't work in water, but they do work in water, and so there's a disconnect between what's proposed and reality, because if something works in water it's not the same as working in a vacuum. 00:13:53.582 --> 00:14:07.232 Um, and so this guy tirosh, um, I, he, he made an impression of me and I had back of my mind that water must be important in muscle contraction and probably in everything that the cell does. 00:14:07.232 --> 00:14:27.485 So I got interested in, I mean, I was particularly open to the idea when I went to Hungary, to this conference, that yeah, water is really important, and I was totally moved by Gilbert Ling and by various colleagues who supported it, totally moved by Gilbert Ling and by various colleagues who supported it. 00:14:27.485 --> 00:14:37.910 And so eventually we started doing experiments and what we found to some extent confirmed Gilbert Ling's ideas about the structure of water that's in the cell, but in other ways didn't confirm. 00:14:37.910

--> 00:14:48.231 We found some, we had some observations that differed from what he was talking about, and they're really important, very important, and so so there we are, that's how I. 00:14:48.231 --> 00:14:52.304 I'm sorry for the long discourse, but you asked and so I answered. 00:14:53.648 --> 00:14:59.224 No, I think that's great and it's interesting how you kind of began your career in research. 00:14:59.224 --> 00:15:21.813 It was like it was a blessing in a way for you to confront these issues very early on of hey, this might not be the way for this route, and questioning Huxley, because I think that gave you so much insight into thinking differently too and understanding all the flaws and science and biases and different things on how to navigate that kind of early on too. 00:15:22.301 --> 00:15:24.548 I did absolutely, and I got to tell you an anecdote. 00:15:24.548 --> 00:15:29.969 I'm sorry, I'm not strictly adhering to questions. 00:15:29.969 --> 00:15:31.714 You know, we, we, we. 00:15:31.813 --> 00:15:37.071 Early on in my career, I had some really brilliant people in my lab and we did experience. 00:15:37.071 --> 00:15:47.727 We had three different experiments that didn't agree with Huxley's theory, and I'd never met Huxley before I just heard you know he's a legend and I thought, okay, I got to meet the guy. 00:15:47.727 --> 00:15:56.548 And so I went to London and I distinctly remember I had an appointment in the morning and I arrived 30 minutes early. 00:15:56.548 --> 00:16:02.849 So I sat on the bench outside thinking what am I going to say to this you know legendary guy? 00:16:02.849 --> 00:16:03.230 Who am I? 00:16:03.230 --> 00:16:10.167 Young scientist, you know, freshly minted, and we have some evidence. 00:16:10.167 --> 00:16:14.130 But how am I going to treat this famous guy? 00:16:14.130 --> 00:16:17.850 And I was a bit intimidated, I must admit. 00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:24.110 So I went and I met him and he treated me in a cordial way. 00:16:24.110 --> 00:16:28.389 And I met him and he treated me in a cordial way. 00:16:28.389 --> 00:16:33.201 And so sit down, please Tell me about your experiments. 00:16:33.201 --> 00:16:43.971 I understand you have some data that doesn't agree with the theory that I proposed, and so I went through and he asked numerous questions about the data. 00:16:43.971 --> 00:16:45.464 How did you do this? 00:16:45.464 --> 00:16:49.749 How did you get this, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, genuine questions. 00:16:50.179 --> 00:17:06.357 And then after three hours of that and it was really serious and he was really into it he really wanted to know what we found and he would never quite admit that, yeah, my theory doesn't, or your evidence doesn't fit my theory. 00:17:06.357 --> 00:17:09.766 He never quite said that, but it was all over in three hours. 00:17:09.766 --> 00:17:10.488 He. 00:17:10.488 --> 00:17:20.605 He turned, turned around in his chair and reached into a cabinet just behind him and he pulled out a bottle of sherry, he poured glasses of sherry and we had a drink together. 00:17:21.346 --> 00:17:36.784 And it was then that I realized that this poor guy, this poor famous guy sort of like the british monarchy, you know, sitting, uh, sitting in an ivory tower and he's so important that nobody would ever challenge him. 00:17:36.784 --> 00:17:48.211 I challenged him, he loved it because the guy was an intellectual, even even though I, you know, we, we had evidence that his theory didn't make sense. 00:17:48.211 --> 00:17:57.595 I mean, I still think it's a non-starter, it just simply doesn't work for various reasons that we don't need to get into right now. 00:17:57.595 --> 00:18:01.111 But the poor guy I felt the poor guy was so isolated. 00:18:02.561 --> 00:18:18.259 When you're like the king, nobody, nobody goes to you and challenges you, right, because you're the king or the queen or whatever, and and he was in such an exalted position that his position was not so different from being a member of royalty. 00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:21.787 In, in essence, he was, he was royalty. 00:18:21.787 --> 00:18:25.874 So, um, so I I learned something from that experience. 00:18:25.874 --> 00:18:34.464 I learned that some of those people who are elevated, you know, they pee in the same pot and they eat the same food and they make love in the same way. 00:18:34.464 --> 00:18:40.569 They're just humans, and that poor guy was so isolated from the world. 00:18:40.569 --> 00:18:42.726 So there you go. 00:18:42.746 --> 00:18:58.849 Yeah, that was great that you had that opportunity, too, to sit down and and go through it it was great and we, we sort of maintained a friendship, if you will, throughout his, his life or as long as I was in the muscle contraction field. 00:18:58.849 --> 00:19:06.212 His wife even sent christmas cards to my wife, and you know, and we'd meet at meetings and the truth is, I would avoid him. 00:19:06.212 --> 00:19:09.549 I just, you know, I just didn't know what to say to the guy. 00:19:09.549 --> 00:19:20.329 And we attended a lot of the same conferences and he even came to Seattle for a visit and I, you know, I didn't know how am I going to entertain this guy. 00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:23.428 And somehow I managed. 00:19:24.661 --> 00:19:35.105 You know, I arranged cocktail parties and stuff like that, and he told me before he arrived, he said I've got lots of cocktail parties in london, I don't need more cocktail parties, I want to discuss science. 00:19:35.105 --> 00:19:46.631 And it was, it was real, he did, and so so I rearranged the uh, what we were planning to do, uh, uh, his wishes. 00:19:46.631 --> 00:19:49.134 You know, a nice man. 00:19:49.134 --> 00:19:52.407 It's just that I had nothing to say to the guy. 00:19:53.471 --> 00:19:53.852 Yeah. 00:19:54.413 --> 00:19:57.942 You know, it's like Republicans and Democrats getting together today. 00:19:57.942 --> 00:20:00.464 They don't know what to say

to one another. 00:20:01.386 --> 00:20:06.294 Right, I mean he appreciated that and respected that from you. 00:20:06.334 --> 00:20:07.635 so well, I'm not. 00:20:07.635 --> 00:20:11.208 I think he did, I I'm not sure, but there was always. 00:20:11.208 --> 00:20:18.349 There was always kind of a modicum of respect that I could sense that he had for what, what we were about and what we were doing. 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:21.563 But anyway, that's that's how I um. 00:20:21.563 --> 00:20:31.471 I mean, I started in the contraction of muscles and right now that's ancient history for me and we moved into water big time. 00:20:31.471 --> 00:20:34.727 So that's how I started. 00:20:35.924 --> 00:20:40.047 Okay, I'll ask the next question, because I bet our listeners really kind of want to understand this. 00:20:40.047 --> 00:20:52.233 For the people watching this podcast and haven't researched your work, can you explain to them, like kind of on a simplistic level, what is the fourth phase of water and the easy zone? 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.111 Yeah, sure, everything I do is simplistic, so I don't have any problem with that. 00:20:57.111 --> 00:20:59.803 Sophistication is usually beyond me. 00:20:59.803 --> 00:21:16.269 I keep it simple, okay, so it's best to talk about this sort of chronologically, to get the essence of what we've accomplished, what it might mean. 00:21:16.269 --> 00:21:20.070 So at first I took my cues from Gilbert Ling. 00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:30.308 He said the molecules were all lined up and the water molecules, and so it's like a crystal. 00:21:30.308 --> 00:21:50.767 And when you build a crystal, the crystal starts with some material that eventually becomes a crystal, and that material may not be pure, it may have impurities in it, and so in order to build a pure crystal, somehow the impurities need to be excluded. 00:21:50.767 --> 00:21:57.221 And so in trying to follow up Gilbert Ling's ideas is where we started. 00:21:57.902 --> 00:22:13.017 I'm thinking that what we should look for is some region of water that tends to exclude, because in order to build up this liquid crystal, the original water has to exclude stuff. 00:22:13.017 --> 00:22:22.250 So we set up a situation where we put stuff that ought to be excluded if it was building this structured water. 00:22:22.250 --> 00:22:31.455 So we started with we had a little chamber and in the chamber we filled it with water and little particles that we we hope might be excluded. 00:22:31.455 --> 00:22:51.582 And there are little spheres called microspheres, and they're widely used in science and into the chamber we plunked a piece of gel, um, um, and you know, just like, um, like uh, jello or something, yeah, um, and, but we didn't use that. 00:22:51.582 --> 00:22:55.571 It was a polyvinyl alcohol gel, but it doesn't doesn't matter and we put it in. 00:22:55.720 --> 00:23:07.335 And so we looked to see what, whether somehow in this system, uh, there was some water that would tend

to exclude, and we found it quickly. 00:23:07.335 --> 00:23:16.685 So next to every surface of the gel was originally water to start with, but we looked in the microscope it was water with the particles suspended. 00:23:16.685 --> 00:23:33.692 We looked in the microscope and we could see that the particles were being excluded from the water region next to the gel, were being excluded from the water region next to the gel and after five or 10 minutes this zone of exclusion, which had no microspheres and everything else, had filled with microspheres. 00:23:33.692 --> 00:23:43.281 But that region, about two-tenths of a millimeter, you could see it with your naked eye. 00:23:43.281 --> 00:23:47.486 Profound exclusion, it was clear, and the rest of it had lots of microspheres. 00:23:47.486 --> 00:23:54.432 So that's when we began calling it the exclusion zone, because it excluded. 00:23:54.432 --> 00:24:05.386 And that was convenient, because exclusion zone easy, easy to remember, but it doesn't work in Europe because it's dead and other places. 00:24:05.386 --> 00:24:17.406 But later we realized that's an inappropriate definition but it's so easy, so to speak, that we hung on to it. 00:24:17.406 --> 00:24:24.366 But later we found that this zone of water had properties vastly different from ordinary liquid water. 00:24:24.366 --> 00:24:59.500 Every property we tried and succeeded in measuring and a few other people too, the properties differed and so because it appeared to be a different phase of water and we thought at the time, yes, it does involve some kind of water ordering, so we called, we called it looked like an ordered phase of water and we called it the fourth phase of water because none of the three phases had any properties that resemble that and and yet we had lots of experimental evidence that this was something different. 00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:04.905 So so far we're in agreement with g Lane. 00:25:04.945 --> 00:25:15.096 Where we diverged from his point of view, and I think in a really important way, was when we started using electrodes. 00:25:15.096 --> 00:25:25.734 You know, I did my undergraduate work in electrical engineering, so electrodes and measuring electrical stuff was really important. 00:25:25.734 --> 00:25:34.461 I can't remember why we decided to do that, but we decided to measure to see if anything interesting occurred in this exclusion Zone. 00:25:34.461 --> 00:25:55.785 And we use electrodes that that, the glass electrodes that come to a very fine tip and it's filled with a solution of three molar, kcl, potassium chloride, and invented, by the way, by the same Gilbert Ling who used it. 00:25:55.785 --> 00:26:00.428 And we use it too to penetrate cells, to look at the cell's electrical potential. 00:26:00.428 --> 00:26:14.840 So we had lots of experience doing it, as did many, many people half a century ago and we decided to use them to poke into the exclusion zone and see if we found something interesting. 00:26:15.884 --> 00:26:32.355 We were shocked, so to speak, with the electrical measurements and we were shocked to find that the electrical potential was not zero, which would be characteristic of ordinary water, but had negative electrical potential up to a couple of hundred millivolts. 00:26:32.355 --> 00:26:41.473 And we were shocked because this didn't make sense to us, because the whole system started with water, which is neutral. 00:26:41.473 --> 00:26:48.943 So how do you start with neutral water and you get a zone that has negative electrical charge? 00:26:48.943 --> 00:26:59.665 The only way that that could happen is if there's another zone with positive charge right, because the two have to add up to give you what you started with, which was zero, neutral right. 00:26:59.665 --> 00:27:01.332 And we quickly found it. 00:27:01.372 --> 00:27:04.122 So we found the exclusion zone is negatively charged. 00:27:04.122 --> 00:27:14.050 So you've got a gel sitting here and next to the gel was an exclusion zone that was negatively charged, and beyond that zone was water, the water that you started with. 00:27:14.050 --> 00:27:17.109 But we measured turned out that had positive charge. 00:27:17.109 --> 00:27:29.928 The positive charges were essentially dissolved in the water and the positive charge that would come from the original water would be protons H+, just like in acids. 00:27:29.928 --> 00:27:43.705 But it's well known that as soon as a proton is created, if it's in water, the proton will join a water molecule to give you a so-called hydronium ion. 00:27:43.705 --> 00:27:50.366 So those positive charges, the positive charges, were not bare protons, they were all hydronium ions. 00:27:50.366 --> 00:27:54.903 So you've got negative charge in ez and you've got hydronium ions outside. 00:27:55.403 --> 00:27:56.065 So what is that? 00:27:56.065 --> 00:28:06.944 It's a battery, um, so we found that, um, that you, you, you know that you started with pure water and in the right circumstance you get a battery. 00:28:06.944 --> 00:28:10.346 And batteries are capable of delivering energy. 00:28:10.346 --> 00:28:15.391 That's what they do for a living they generate electrical energy. 00:28:15.391 --> 00:28:44.888 So there we were, and not long after one of the students actually two different students they stuck electrodes in the positive and the negative and the positive, and they could get electrical current, enough current to light an LED lamp, and so that was proof of principle that we really do have this battery here, and the battery contained energy that was deliverable. 00:28:44.888 --> 00:28:46.992 So that was cool. 00:28:54.269 --> 00:29:09.556 But it raised the question which a lot of people, especially in the field of photosynthesis and I don't want to deviate too far from the main theme, but the question see the first step of photosynthesis. 00:29:09.556 --> 00:29:12.119 Let me defer that for later. 00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:13.767 Okay, but

here's the question. 00:29:13.767 --> 00:29:21.151 If you got negative in EZ and you got positive outside, you know it's sort of like man and woman. 00:29:21.151 --> 00:29:24.805 They want to come together right, plus and minus. 00:29:24.805 --> 00:29:29.144 Sort of like man and woman. 00:29:29.144 --> 00:29:31.088 They want to come together right, plus and minus. 00:29:31.549 --> 00:29:45.090 But if you have a battery like this, something prevents the two from coming together right, because otherwise they want to immediately recombine but they're not recombining. 00:29:45.090 --> 00:29:46.073 So what is that? 00:29:46.073 --> 00:29:50.241 And that took a bit of head scratching to figure out. 00:29:50.241 --> 00:29:59.828 So we wound up with a real understanding of what's going on and what's absolutely necessary, and that is when the EZ forms. 00:29:59.828 --> 00:30:07.271 It has a structure that's so dense that it doesn't allow those hydronium ions to penetrate back. 00:30:07.271 --> 00:30:15.874 The positive hydronium ions want desperately to recombine with the negative EZ, but the negative EZ resists because its structure is too dense. 00:30:16.701 --> 00:30:46.233 Its structure, we found we were able to deduce, consists of it starts at the surface of the gel or polymer or whatever is nucleating the growth and you got the first sheet layer and that sheet nucleates the growth of the second sheet and the third sheet and the sheets keep growing, giving you that, as I said, to start with two tenths of a millimeter, but we've been able to find up to a millimeter, even beyond in certain circumstances. 00:30:46.233 --> 00:30:54.387 So in each sheet, the structure of each sheet is a honeycomb, so it's got hexagons. 00:30:54.387 --> 00:31:00.866 Now in order to penetrate into the EZ you have to go through those hexagons, through the openings in the hexagons. 00:31:00.866 --> 00:31:06.173 Those openings are very small and also successive sheets are shifted by half of the hexagons. 00:31:06.173 --> 00:31:13.137 Those openings are very small and also successive sheets are shifted by half of the hexagon dimension, so it makes the actual opening even smaller than that. 00:31:13.137 --> 00:31:22.605 Meanwhile you've got hydronium ions here which are much bigger than protons and they simply are too big to enter into that easy lattice. 00:31:22.605 --> 00:31:23.867 So they remain separated. 00:31:26.251 --> 00:31:39.500 And for any system like photosynthesis, for example, the first step involves the separation of charge and water, just like I'm talking about. 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:44.567 And what hasn't been addressed is how they remain separated. 00:31:44.567 --> 00:32:07.296 They need to remain separated in order for all the subsequent steps to take place, but there's been no discussion of how they're kept separated and therefore I think that mechanism is maybe a special case of what we've found in the laboratory. 00:32:07.296 --> 00:32:11.980 And there's one point, one further point, an important one, that links the two even better. 00:32:11.980 --> 00:32:17.045 So you know, photosynthesis is run by light Light, first step of photosynthesis. 00:32:17.045 --> 00:32:27.333 Light separates water into H plus, oh minus, I think it separates them into EZ and the positive region beyond the EZ. 00:32:27.333 --> 00:32:33.411 But in photosynthesis, it's light that's responsible for supplying the energy. 00:32:33.411 --> 00:32:39.595 And so if we put that aside for the moment, and what about the EZ? 00:32:40.498 --> 00:32:46.413 Creating a battery you can't create a battery without energy. 00:32:46.413 --> 00:32:56.902 The battery contains potential energy which can be delivered, as I mentioned before, but you can't create that kind of energy from nothing. 00:32:56.902 --> 00:33:04.789 The only way you can create that kind of energy is to start with another kind of energy and then convert it to a different kind of energy. 00:33:04.789 --> 00:33:06.442 It's a fundamental law of physics. 00:33:06.442 --> 00:33:15.506 Uh, I I'm not fond of accepting laws and physics until they're really sure they're right, but this is one that really does make sense. 00:33:15.506 --> 00:33:22.586 So, um, so you need another kind of energy to separate the charges easy and beyond. 00:33:22.586 --> 00:33:26.592 And and we found that that is light. 00:33:27.574 --> 00:33:34.076 It was a student who found that, who was setting up a chamber, and I guess he was bored or something, or curious. 00:33:34.076 --> 00:33:45.268 He took a gooseneck lamp that was sitting next to his setup and he shined the gooseneck lamp and he saw the exclusion zone and the region that was illuminated. 00:33:45.268 --> 00:33:49.066 He saw the exclusion zone growing and he ran into my office. 00:33:49.066 --> 00:33:49.682 He called me. 00:33:49.682 --> 00:33:52.805 Hey, I found something interesting and I saw it. 00:33:52.839 --> 00:34:13.492 And then we started doing real experiments because we were wondering, if, you know, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that light, photons, energy, is being put in and that's the energy that's creating the battery, it's charging the battery because obviously the EZ was growing. 00:34:13.492 --> 00:34:37.085 So we checked to see which wavelengths were important and we studied wavelengths ranging at the short end, ultravioletet, and then longer into the visible spectral range and then longer to to the infrared range, and we found that that the first two didn't matter at all, pretty much only infrared range. 00:34:37.085 --> 00:34:38.608 We say infrared light. 00:34:38.608 --> 00:34:49.806 It's, it's pretty much the same as the same as visible light, except a longer wavelength that our eyes can't detect, you know, but the same ilk so. 00:34:49.806 --> 00:35:01.050 And we found that it has extreme power, that even a very tiny weak LED lamp can expand the exclusion zone we found up to 10 times. 00:35:01.050 -->

00:35:07.802 So you needed only a little bit of infrared light to give you a lot of energy to charge this battery. 00:35:07.802 --> 00:35:12.092 And I think it's kind of the same for photosynthesis. 00:35:12.152 --> 00:35:27.213 People talk about a couple of visible wavelengths that are important in photosynthesis, but if you bear in mind that it's the springtime, it's now that photosynthesis begins in earnest. 00:35:27.213 --> 00:35:28.963 The weather's getting warmer. 00:35:28.963 --> 00:35:36.847 The weather gets warmer, it means there's more infrared energy, because infrared and warmth are pretty much closely correlated. 00:35:36.847 --> 00:35:45.128 They're not exactly the same, but pretty much it's like if you put down the toaster and you look at the coils glowing. 00:35:45.128 --> 00:35:50.130 They produce heat and they're glowing, you say infrared energy is coming out, infrared radiation. 00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:57.628 Physicists will say infrared light, and that's when photosynthesis gets going in earnest. 00:35:57.628 --> 00:36:02.146 In the springtime, that's when the leaves come out, that's when things begin happening. 00:36:02.146 --> 00:36:05.088 So photosynthesis, the first step. 00:36:05.088 --> 00:36:14.431 It must be sensitive to infrared light, just like we found in other systems that grow easy. 00:36:14.431 --> 00:36:21.025 It's the infrared light that is primarily responsible. 00:36:21.065 --> 00:36:28.422 So the bottom line is, I think, photosynthesis, the first step of photosynthesis. 00:36:28.422 --> 00:36:35.141 All of agriculture basically follows the same paradigm that we found in photosynthesis. 00:36:35.141 --> 00:36:44.293 First step might be nature's way, nature's version of what we found more generically. 00:36:44.293 --> 00:36:48.222 And of course, nature does it in the most effective and efficient way. 00:36:48.222 --> 00:36:59.902 So it uses not only infrared light but also other members of the spectrum to power it. 00:36:59.902 --> 00:37:29.184 So okay to summarize I'm sorry I've gone on and on and on, but word, you want to use the growth of EZ and the positive charge beyond. 00:37:29.184 --> 00:37:31.552 That creates a battery from which you can get energy. 00:37:31.552 --> 00:37:34.648 And what charges that battery is infrared light. 00:37:34.648 --> 00:37:37.836 So I'm sorry again. 00:37:37.836 --> 00:37:40.519 Long answer to a short question. 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:44.141 That wasn't really a short question, so I think that was a great answer. 00:37:44.141 --> 00:37:56.302 So, okay, so we, we kind of have a foundation now for what easy is and since we are made of water and we have it in all of ourselves, so how does that affect us? 00:37:56.302 --> 00:38:03.965 How does is, how is easy in our cells versus regular water, and how does that affect us? 00:38:03.985 --> 00:38:20.666 Yeah, in a profound way okay, I know that's a tough question to ask, but I I think it'll help tie it in too oh I, that's the right question to ask, of course, um, yeah, so so what does this water have to do with the cell? 00:38:20.666 --> 00:38:39.766 And uh, the short answer and I'll expound on that in a moment the short answer is that the cell is filled with easy water, um and um, uh, as you, as you know, if you stick an electrode into a cell, you'll measure negative electrical potential. 00:38:39.766 --> 00:38:44.309 Somehow the cell is negatively charged. 00:38:44.309 --> 00:39:08.844 That's an assertion on my part that the cell is filled with EZ water and if I'm right and there's a lot of evidence that actually supports that point of view you'll think well, if the cell is filled with negatively charged EZ water, it must be negatively charged. 00:39:08.844 --> 00:39:12.996 If you stick an electrode in the cell, you'll measure negative charge, right? 00:39:12.996 --> 00:39:19.393 I mean, you take a paper bag and you fill it with negatively charged stuff and you stick an electrode in it. 00:39:19.393 --> 00:39:21.478 Of course you measure negative charge. 00:39:21.478 --> 00:39:25.409 That's not the way cell biologists look at it. 00:39:25.409 --> 00:39:28.293 Cell biologists look at it a different way. 00:39:28.293 --> 00:39:40.347 That's, I must admit, far more complicated, and I'll deal with that complication now because it's really, really important. 00:39:40.407 --> 00:39:58.385 So the idea arose more than 50 years ago and continuing on and accepted by almost every cell biologist to this day, that the reason this cell has negative electrical charge has nothing to do with EZ water, because nobody knew about EZ water at the time these ideas came into being. 00:39:58.385 --> 00:40:01.387 But they did measure negative charge. 00:40:01.387 --> 00:40:04.351 And so what's responsible for the negative charge? 00:40:04.351 --> 00:40:34.746 That people at the time, 50 years ago, knew that outside the cell was high sodium, inside the cell was high potassium, and so the idea arose well, there must be a pump in the membrane that pumps the sodium out and pumps the potassium in, and that must be how it works, the potassium in. 00:40:34.746 --> 00:40:35.987 And that must be how it works. 00:40:35.987 --> 00:40:38.733 And there was a lot of research whose results seemed compatible with that idea. 00:40:38.733 --> 00:40:51.416 And the idea has expanded to the point where now the number of pumps that are needed to explain what's inside and what's outside, if you look on Wikipedia, I think it says more than 200. 00:40:51.416 --> 00:40:55.250 If you ask a former student who's in that field, it's over a thousand. 00:40:55.250 --> 00:40:58.177 Now, what's the problem with that? 00:40:58.177 --> 00:41:00.309 Well, the problem is you can't see it. 00:41:00.309 --> 00:41:10.414 On electron micrographs you expect to see these membrane gadgets strewn all about, but all you find is a continuous membrane that has nothing. 00:41:10.414 --> 00:41:11.856 You can't see this. 00:41:11.856 -->

00:41:12.739 That's the first problem. 00:41:12.739 --> 00:41:34.309 The second problem approached by Gilbert Ling was you know, pumps need energy for pumping, and Gilbert Ling did experiments and found that, in the most generous conditions, allowing everything in favor of the pumping people, that the cell simply didn't have nearly enough energy to pump the sodium out. 00:41:34.309 --> 00:41:43.072 And now there are a thousand pumps, or some large number, and so the amount of energy that would be needed is simply extraordinary. 00:41:43.072 --> 00:41:45.338 So that's for pumps. 00:41:46.005 --> 00:41:48.768 And then not only pumps, but channels. 00:41:48.768 --> 00:42:06.619 Ion-selective channels were invoked, invented, thought to be, and they also thought to populate the membrane, and the reason for them is there were certain other ions or substances that were more inside the cell than outside, or more outside than inside. 00:42:06.619 --> 00:42:09.130 So how did they get there? 00:42:09.130 --> 00:42:14.045 Well, and the idea of ion selective channels came into being. 00:42:14.045 --> 00:42:20.467 Um, and some of the same problems exist with those, those channels, but I'll just cite one of them, because there are many. 00:42:21.550 --> 00:42:22.452 I've written about this. 00:42:22.452 --> 00:42:45.298 Uh, uh, the idea is you, you have an ion selective channel, and the channel pops open and it lets a certain ion through and nothing else, only that ion, and then it closes again, and if you measure the current that goes from outside to inside the cell, you can see a pulse, and then another pulse, and another pulse, and it seems. 00:42:45.298 --> 00:42:53.034 That seemed to be really compelling evidence that there was a channel and the channel was popping open and closed, open and closed, closed, giving you those pulses. 00:42:53.034 --> 00:43:04.407 A problem with that is you can take a synthetic membrane with no pumps, no channels, nothing, and you get the same result repeated by half dozen different laboratories. 00:43:04.407 --> 00:43:16.340 That's only one of numerous issues that befall this theory. 00:43:16.340 --> 00:43:24.016 So I think the theory is wrong, although it's believed and accepted by probably close to 100% of cell biologists. 00:43:24.998 --> 00:43:34.579 I think it's wrong and a simpler explanation is that you don't have these numerous pumps and numerous, equally numerous channels in the membrane. 00:43:34.579 --> 00:43:45.518 You know, you discover a channel, you get a Nobel Prize, so there's a lot of incentive to discover a new pump or a new channel, you know, and the number piles up. 00:43:45.518 --> 00:43:56.099 So a simpler idea is that the reason the cell has negative charges, ez water has negative charge and the cell is filled with EZ water, very simple. 00:43:56.099 --> 00:44:27.860 So that's the tangent and the deviation that I wanted to make. 00:44:27.860 --> 00:44:40.572 It's one example of going funding that way for your research and if you challenge that, then you have real obstacles because often the people who will review your application for money are the people you're challenging. 00:44:40.572 --> 00:44:45.806 So the system doesn't work in that sense. 00:44:45.806 --> 00:44:51.911 So anyway, back to EZ and what it does Now. 00:44:51.911 --> 00:44:55.074 So you've got the cell is filled with EZ water. 00:44:56.514 --> 00:45:01.038 Now, ez water is structured, it's organized. 00:45:01.038 --> 00:45:03.981 It seems that it can't do anything. 00:45:03.981 --> 00:45:06.623 It's sort of like ice, but it's not ice. 00:45:06.623 --> 00:45:16.951 The structure is actually not so different from ice, but it's not ice, and it's sort of gel-like. 00:45:16.951 --> 00:45:20.737 And you can intuit the gel-like consistency in a couple of ways. 00:45:20.737 --> 00:45:28.556 One way if you're brave enough, you take a razor blade and take your forearm and cut. 00:45:28.556 --> 00:45:30.659 So what comes out? 00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:32.210 Well, blood comes out, obviously. 00:45:32.731 --> 00:45:38.056 But you'd expect, if the cell is filled with liquid water, that the water would come pouring out like it does. 00:45:38.056 --> 00:45:41.972 It would from a breached water pipe, but it doesn't come out. 00:45:41.972 --> 00:45:55.862 And even deep in your body I've got some surgeon friends and they tell me you take a scalpel and you cut through the belly of a muscle and if the muscle contained liquid water, the water would come pouring out. 00:45:55.862 --> 00:45:57.666 But they never see water come pouring out. 00:45:57.666 --> 00:46:00.170 So it's more it it's. 00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:01.253 It's not a liquid. 00:46:02.074 --> 00:46:04.358 And and uh, the fact that it's a gel. 00:46:04.358 --> 00:46:06.568 It has been well known for almost a hundred years. 00:46:06.568 --> 00:46:10.574 Um, uh, and you could demonstrate that to yourself. 00:46:10.574 --> 00:46:13.097 You just take a raw egg. 00:46:13.097 --> 00:46:20.617 And you've done that, you've cracked open a raw egg and the egg white is a cytoplasm of the egg cell, right. 00:46:20.617 --> 00:46:24.889 And it's not a liquid, it's a gel, right. 00:46:24.889 --> 00:46:43.436 And so this gel, the gel-like consistency, is exactly what you expect from easy water, and that's why, if you cut the cell, the gel-like consistency is one it's going to say it won't come pouring out because it sticks to the surface. 00:46:43.436 --> 00:47:01.414 The egg white tends to be somewhat sticky, and so so the interior of the cell is much different from from what the cell biologist biology school teaches us, simply, simply doesn't fit. 00:47:02.215 --> 00:47:03.478 And so, so what? 00:47:03.478 --> 00:47:04.259 What about that? 00:47:04.259 --> 00:47:06.367 How, how can things happen inside the cell? 00:47:06.367 --> 00:47:11.157 Well, the way things happen, and this is discussed in detail in my first book. 00:47:11.157 --> 00:47:13.371 We

haven't talked about the second book. 00:47:13.371 --> 00:47:22.115 We'll get to it the Fourth Phase of Water, which is actually really popular, but, excuse me, in the first book. 00:47:22.115 --> 00:47:30.920 And so the second half of the first book the first half talks about Gilbert Ling and his ideas. 00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:33.648 Half of the first book the first half talks about Gilbert Ling and his ideas. 00:47:33.648 --> 00:47:45.385 The second half talks about how the cell might function, with the idea that the water is structured, even though we didn't know at that time all the details that I've divulged to you and described elsewhere. 00:47:46.226 --> 00:48:04.914 So we made an attempt, or I made an attempt to do that and I brought forth from the literature evidence that what happens in the cell is when the cell is in the so-called inactivated condition, like if you have a muscle cell, it's not contracting. 00:48:04.914 --> 00:48:07.505 If you have a secretory cell, it's not secreting. 00:48:07.505 --> 00:48:17.844 If you have a nerve cell, it's not conducting, it's the intervening phase and that phase is filled with structured or we say easy or fourth phase water. 00:48:17.844 --> 00:48:27.969 Everything is organized and not much can happen because the cell, it's like it's filled with ice, you know, and if you want action to occur, there's not much action that occurs in ice. 00:48:28.251 --> 00:48:37.672 But what happens as soon as the cell is activated to do what it's designed to do, so to speak, it undergoes a transition. 00:48:37.672 --> 00:48:39.572 It's called a phase transition. 00:48:39.572 --> 00:48:45.891 It's well known in physical chemistry but not so much in biology and everything in the cell changes. 00:48:45.891 --> 00:48:47.255 The water changes. 00:48:47.255 --> 00:48:58.175 It goes from EZ or fourth phase water at the time I use the term structured water goes to ordinary liquid water and that's when the action happens. 00:48:58.175 --> 00:49:09.838 The transition is to liquid water and also, as soon as it changes to liquid water, all the proteins can undergo their necessary conformational change to produce what the cell is designed to produce or designed to do. 00:49:09.838 --> 00:49:11.708 To produce what the cell is designed to produce or designed to do. 00:49:11.708 --> 00:49:26.557 And then, when it's all over, it reverts back to the structured state, to easy water, to proteins that are returned from their conformationally changed structure back to their original extended structure. 00:49:27.467 --> 00:49:46.505 That's the cycle, and I adduced evidence to support the idea that, or the view that that occurred in a half dozen of the most common cells that exist and and presumably in other cells too, that we there was not enough evidence, or we didn't have a chance to to to explore. 00:49:46.505 --> 00:50:05.059 So it's during this transition phase that the cell, that the cell is, the water in the cell is ordinary water, that diffusion can occur, things can move around, uh, hormones can enter the cell, waste products can be expelled from the cell and and what have you? 00:50:05.059 --> 00:50:05.862 So? 00:50:05.862 --> 00:50:15.259 And then it returns again, and the return, the return is the energy requiringiring state, because the buildup of easy water requires energy. 00:50:15.259 --> 00:50:28.994 You see, and that's where, for example, infrared energy comes into play, because infrared energy is not coming only from your toaster or your electric oven, it's everywhere. 00:50:28.994 --> 00:50:31.750 And the way you can. 00:50:31.750 --> 00:50:35.346 You can demonstrate that is is um, um. 00:50:35.346 --> 00:50:38.793 You can, in your room, where you are now with the tulips. 00:50:38.793 --> 00:50:42.188 I think they are behind you, um, is that where they are? 00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:50.172 um we have them growing here too now, um, this time of year, but you turn off all the lights and so we see nothing. 00:50:50.172 --> 00:50:54.853 You can see nothing with your eye and your trusty cell phone camera can't record anything. 00:50:54.853 --> 00:50:56.257 It's like pitch black. 00:50:56.257 --> 00:51:07.280 But if you take out an infrared camera, that is just like your regular camera, but the sensor, instead of being sensitive to visible light, it's sensitive to infrared light. 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.867 It'll record everything. 00:51:08.867 --> 00:51:22.195 I'd be able to see those, those tulips behind you and the vase, and uh, what's hanging on your wall and the throw pillows on on your sofa and all and and, because I can see them with the infrared camera. 00:51:22.215 --> 00:51:32.722 It means they must be generating infrared light or releasing infrared light or infrared energy, and so you've got infrared all around you. 00:51:32.722 --> 00:51:34.327 It's coming from everywhere. 00:51:34.327 --> 00:51:40.608 Of course, the sun is the most powerful, but it's coming from everywhere and um and and and. 00:51:40.608 --> 00:51:47.568 So it means it means that the energy that you need to build easy water is. 00:51:47.568 --> 00:51:49.255 It exists all around. 00:51:49.255 --> 00:51:52.284 And, by the way, that's why the military uses it for a night light. 00:51:52.284 --> 00:51:54.132 They want to see the enemy's tanks. 00:51:54.132 --> 00:51:56.179 It's dark, it's nighttime. 00:51:56.179 --> 00:52:04.278 They whip out their infrared telescope or camera, or whatever they use, and they can see what, what you ordinarily can't see. 00:52:04.278 --> 00:52:17.280 So everything is generating infrared light or energy, and and so the cell makes use of that when it returns, needs to return to the initial state, the structured state, which means build up, rebuilding easy water. 00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:29.838 And because the infrared light is all around us and it's also coming from the core of our bodies, because metabolism is occurring, it generates heat, and the heat is

essentially the same as infrared. 00:52:29.838 --> 00:52:36.574 So you've got energy, you have coming from outside and coming from inside to restore what needs to occur. 00:52:37.215 --> 00:52:40.288 And the last point, that is for sale action. 00:52:40.288 --> 00:53:01.157 Um, you need this easy water because if it's really true what I I believe is true from what we've explored and written in this, in that book, um, then then, in order to undergo this phase transition easy to liquid water and back to easy, easy must must be there. 00:53:01.157 --> 00:53:08.534 And if you don't have enough easy, uh, then the full transformation can't take place and your cells are dysfunctional. 00:53:08.534 --> 00:53:16.376 And if you want to be functional again, what you need to do is restore the content of EZ. 00:53:16.376 --> 00:53:19.853 And there are various ways to do that. 00:53:19.853 --> 00:53:23.253 I can talk about them if you like. 00:53:23.253 --> 00:53:35.813 There are simple expedients that require not much in the way of almost anything, and evidence has shown that these expedients really do restore health, and I think the way they restore health is by building EZ. 00:53:35.813 --> 00:53:40.536 So maybe I'll stop there and wait for further questions. 00:53:42.168 --> 00:53:56.356 I think that's the most powerful statement for everyone listening that basically what you're saying is EZ is where the energy comes from in the cell, and a healthy cell has more EZ in it so it can operate optimally. 00:53:56.864 --> 00:53:59.597 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying Thank you for reading. 00:53:59.597 --> 00:54:03.155 Yeah, that is critically important, yeah. 00:54:03.706 --> 00:54:04.487 So I guess yeah. 00:54:04.487 --> 00:54:15.452 The question is, if EZ is kind of the core of our health and the core of the cellular health that we have, how do, how can we generate it in our own bodies? 00:54:15.974 --> 00:54:16.396 okay. 00:54:16.396 --> 00:54:27.476 So, uh, I'll tell you briefly a half half dozen different ways um that, um that, if I can remember them, uh, half dozen different ways. 00:54:27.476 --> 00:54:32.132 So, um, uh, one of them is by drinking water drinking. 00:54:32.132 --> 00:54:37.516 Drinking a lot of water, which I don't do because I like to drink coffee too much, but it does contain water. 00:54:37.516 --> 00:54:48.907 If you imbibe water and everybody knows we need to be hydrated, but people don't understand exactly what is hydration. 00:54:48.907 --> 00:54:59.987 So we take in water and we pee out water also, but some of the water that we drink goes into hydration and what happens is some of the water, not all of it. 00:54:59.987 --> 00:55:05.967 Some of the water gets converted by our body in the presence of infrared energy, gets converted into easy water. 00:55:05.967 --> 00:55:13.226 So, drink a lot of water builds easy water in ourselves and we're healthier, and we know that. 00:55:13.226 --> 00:55:18.157 You know, if you play two rounds of tennis, two matches, you're dead to the world. 00:55:18.157 --> 00:55:22.336 You sit down, you drink a liter of water and you're feeling better already. 00:55:22.336 --> 00:55:25.391 Ok, so that's one first expedient. 00:55:25.391 --> 00:55:26.695 I'll let you keep track. 00:55:26.695 --> 00:55:29.550 There are at least six that I can think. 00:55:29.550 --> 00:55:36.989 Another one is to do uh for your hydration, to do juicing and to go. 00:55:36.989 --> 00:55:46.173 Go to your backyard and your garden, uh, pick some leaves, squeeze the hell out of them and you're basically squeezing out the water. 00:55:46.173 --> 00:55:49.925 And what is that liquid that you're squeezing out? 00:55:49.925 --> 00:55:54.952 Well, the liquid is the interior of the plant cells, and these are freshly grown plants. 00:55:54.952 --> 00:55:56.570 They're full of EZ water. 00:55:56.570 --> 00:56:00.556 The inside of the plant cell is just like our cells should be. 00:56:00.556 --> 00:56:03.931 It's filled with EZ water and you're squeezing out EZ water. 00:56:03.931 --> 00:56:13.284 So when you drink this stuff, if you can tolerate it, it doesn't taste great, but you can add a few things to it to make it palatable and you drink it. 00:56:13.284 --> 00:56:28.436 You're drinking directly, drinking easy water, and so in some way, that easy water is then, well, in some way it contains negative charge and the negative charge. 00:56:28.436 --> 00:56:45.367 I believe negative charge and the negative charge I believe negative charge can flow very easily from the water that you drink, can flow very easily throughout your body, seeking regions that are less negatively charged, or you might say more positively charged, because negative always wants to go to positive. 00:56:45.367 --> 00:56:52.978 So any of your cells that are insufficiently negative that negative charge will flow in. 00:56:52.978 --> 00:57:00.585 And we found in the laboratory you simply add negative charge to water and it converts it into EZ water. 00:57:00.585 --> 00:57:19.608 There's another way to build EZ water, so I've gone through a long explanation, but basically drinking the stuff from your garden, the water from your garden, the water from your garden, getting rid of the bulky stuff so your stomach doesn't get very full very quickly and you don't stop and you drink this water. 00:57:19.608 --> 00:57:25.806 It provides the electrons that are necessary for the buildup of easy water in your cells. 00:57:25.806 --> 00:57:37.880 And I've heard I'm not sure what your experience is, but I've heard from various health practitioners one sort or another that this seems to be like the best expedient for improving your health. 00:57:37.880 --> 00:57:40.851 So, okay, that's two. 00:57:42.905 --> 00:57:48.512 Another one is sunshine, so going out in the sun. 00:57:48.512 --> 00:57:54.429 So, you know, mostly we think of the sun as giving light, and of course it does. 00:57:54.429 --> 00:57:59.311 But

roughly 50% of the sun's energy is in the infrared region. 00:57:59.311 --> 00:58:02.313 That's why it feels warm in the sun. 00:58:02.313 --> 00:58:06.597 It gives off infrared energy to it. 00:58:06.597 --> 00:58:12.021 You know, then we can receive that massive amount of infrared energy. 00:58:12.021 --> 00:58:25.375 And so in Seattle, where I live and not where you live, but it's cloudy a lot in the wintertime, you know, and when the sun pokes through the clouds you can see smiles on people's faces. 00:58:25.375 --> 00:58:27.297 So why is that? 00:58:27.297 --> 00:58:49.536 Well, so the usual reason given is suddenly the light appears, we feel good, it's a psychological effect, and it may well be, but I think it's also a physical effect, because when the sun comes out, you know, and shines on us in one way or another it provides massive amounts of infrared energy and that infrared energy can penetrate to our brain. 00:58:49.536 --> 00:58:54.610 The evidence for that is, you can take an infrared source and put it here. 00:58:54.610 --> 00:59:01.192 It passes through the skull, gets scattered by your brain and then some of it goes back through the skull. 00:59:01.192 --> 00:59:02.474 It's picked up by a sensor. 00:59:02.474 --> 00:59:03.967 You can image the brain that way. 00:59:03.967 --> 00:59:09.726 So if you can image the brain, it means the energy, original energy must be getting through your skull twice actually. 00:59:09.726 --> 00:59:41.335 So that's another expedient or another way that you feel good, because the cells in your brain, the nerve cells, I guess, in your brain, might have been deficient of easy water, and the fact that the sun comes out it means they're going to build easy water and your cells return to their, shall we say, default state. 00:59:41.335 --> 00:59:42.597 That is feeling good. 00:59:42.597 --> 00:59:49.273 We're designed to feel good, not to feel down and sad and depressed. 00:59:49.273 --> 00:59:51.436 So the sun comes out, we feel good. 00:59:51.436 --> 00:59:53.346 I, I think that could be contributing. 00:59:53.346 --> 00:59:55.349 So that's that's, I guess. 00:59:55.409 --> 01:00:00.418 A third, fourth one is the sauna, or, as the Finns say, sauna. 01:00:00.418 --> 01:00:11.215 Um, so I, I had experiences both in in Finland and also in Russia, where they call it banya, and, and it's a little bit different, but but. 01:00:11.215 --> 01:00:17.753 But, the main features of a sauna are heat, and heat, as I mentioned, is associated with infrared. 01:00:17.753 --> 01:00:33.927 So you're receiving massive amounts of infrared energy and you go into the sauna, um and or banya, and you come out and you feel like a million dollars, right, um, or at least much of the time, or most of the time. 01:00:33.927 --> 01:00:36.152 And I I had that experience myself. 01:00:36.472 --> 01:00:41.914 Uh, I was in finland giving a talk and, um, it was terrible jet lag. 01:00:42.376 --> 01:00:54.170 And they said there's a party we're having outside the town or a city, and they took us to the party and there was entertainment and music, and all I wanted to do was put my head on my pillow and sleep. 01:00:54.170 --> 01:01:05.347 And, uh, at 10 pm, the host got up to the microphone andi thought, for sure, he's announcing, okay, it's time to get back on the bus and we're going to take you back to your hotel. 01:01:05.347 --> 01:01:07.391 But that's not what he said. 01:01:07.391 --> 01:01:24.094 He said, okay, it's time for the sauna now, and he was, um, he was describing three different kinds one is dry, one is wet and there was another kind and he said after it's over, you're free to jump into the water cold water and get refreshed. 01:01:24.094 --> 01:01:34.947 I didn't do that, but I I went to one of the saunas and I was just feeling so tired and when I came out, after a shower and such, it was like the beginning. 01:01:34.947 --> 01:01:42.853 I had had eight hours sleep and I was ready to go again even though 30 minutes before that, all I wanted to do was sleep. 01:01:43.293 --> 01:01:46.947 So I had that kind of experience and and the same in russia. 01:01:46.947 --> 01:01:50.474 Um, the russian ones are a little bit different. 01:01:50.474 --> 01:01:56.619 After you get maybe you've had the experience they beat you with the leaves of a birch tree. 01:01:56.619 --> 01:01:57.925 You've had that experience. 01:01:57.925 --> 01:02:04.592 Yeah, okay, anyway, that was pretty exciting. 01:02:04.592 --> 01:02:10.701 So, yeah, anyway, so that's the fourth experience. 01:02:10.701 --> 01:02:16.032 Um, yeah, anyway, so that's that's the fourth expedience. 01:02:16.032 --> 01:02:20.485 Uh, expedient sauna, and, as, as you know better than I know, you can get portable, uh, electrical, uh saunas, uh, just infrared lights. 01:02:20.485 --> 01:02:24.396 Basically, that do I guess much, much the same thing. 01:02:24.597 --> 01:02:42.485 But it's nice to, it's nice to enjoy the original okay that that's four um, fifth, one, um, fifth, expedient, and and promoting health, and all all of these are really simple, uh, um is uh, to eat the right kind of herbs spices. 01:02:42.485 --> 01:02:52.119 What have you and and um, you know, starting, starting back from ayurvedic times 5,000, 10,000 years ago. 01:02:52.119 --> 01:03:08.010 Of course, people were equally interested in their health as they are today, and it became clear that certain herbs were good for health, and one of them, for example, is turmeric, which is widely advertised now. 01:03:08.010 --> 01:03:17.592 And with modern allopathic medicine, we've forgotten that some of these substances can be good for health. 01:03:17.592 --> 01:03:28.635 And so we began wondering why turmeric, basil, so-called holy basil ghee, why are all these so good for health? 01:03:28.795 --> 01:03:44.775 And you know, you could imagine if you were oriented toward allopathic medicine, orthodox thinking, you might say that, oh, there are receptors for

ghee or whatever turmeric all over your body. 01:03:44.775 --> 01:03:57.364 You know, you've got receptors in your heart and you've got receptors in your liver and you've got receptors and receptors to the receptors, and that's one, and that that one is a possibility, though it's a bit complicated. 01:03:57.364 --> 01:04:10.210 Simpler one is is that the water that's in every one of your cells is is subject to the influence of of these special herbs. 01:04:10.210 --> 01:04:29.193 And so we started thinking well, maybe the reason that turmeric is so good for so many different issues that may impact you, the reason that's the case is it builds easy water, and easy water is all over, and so maybe that's it. 01:04:29.264 --> 01:04:47.498 And we tested it and we published the result, and the result was uniform that all half dozen or so of the herbs and other substances that we test that are known to be good for almost no matter what ails you, they build easy water and that's why. 01:04:47.498 --> 01:04:49.086 That's why they're good for you. 01:04:49.086 --> 01:04:55.291 So the conclusion conclusion is if you want to remain healthy, we published all this stuff. 01:04:55.291 --> 01:05:03.996 It's good to take moderate doses, if you will, or amounts of some of these herbs. 01:05:03.996 --> 01:05:10.215 They really do work because they build easy water and easy water is critical for health and function. 01:05:10.215 --> 01:05:19.976 So that's another really easy expedient that I don't myself don't do enough of, but I should, uh, okay, sixth one um. 01:05:19.976 --> 01:05:25.871 The sixth one is is um grounding or earthing so we? 01:05:25.971 --> 01:05:26.271 we don't. 01:05:26.271 --> 01:05:32.619 As a rule we don't connect ourselves to the earth because we wear shoes all the time. 01:05:32.619 --> 01:05:35.775 The shoes have leather which is insulating. 01:05:35.775 --> 01:05:44.980 But it's become well known that if you take off your shoes and connect yourself electrically to the earth, you feel better. 01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:49.614 And there are all kinds of theories because it's known now that it really works. 01:05:49.614 --> 01:05:53.731 And there are all kinds of theories because it's known now that it really works. 01:05:53.731 --> 01:06:00.514 You can either walk on wet grass, or you can hug a tree, or you can walk on sand near the ocean, damp sand, or you can bathe yourself in a mud bath or whatever. 01:06:00.514 --> 01:06:05.177 In all these cases you're connecting yourself to the earth. 01:06:05.177 --> 01:06:07.313 So why should that work? 01:06:07.313 --> 01:06:26.016 Well, so the reason I think that it works is actually quite simple, excuse me and that is the earth is negatively charged and if you connect yourself electrically you pull in this negative charge. 01:06:26.664 --> 01:06:31.668 Now I must admit that I was educated in electrical engineering. 01:06:31.668 --> 01:06:38.914 Never, ever, did any professor even hint to me that the earth might be negatively charged. 01:06:38.914 --> 01:06:50.661 We were taught that if you got a plug, a three-prong plug, you know you have that extra round plug and you plug into a receptacle, you're connecting yourself to a bland sea of neutrality. 01:06:50.661 --> 01:06:51.503 That's ground. 01:06:51.503 --> 01:06:56.594 That's what we learned and I never heard even a hint to the opposite. 01:06:56.594 --> 01:06:59.585 But I found out that's not true. 01:06:59.585 --> 01:07:01.992 I found out the earth is negatively charged. 01:07:02.032 --> 01:07:19.510 And I found out from a Russian guy who was working in my laboratory and this guy was full of ideas and sometimes I didn't have the patience to listen to all of his ideas, but the day he was leaving he starts telling me, expounding on the electric field of the earth. 01:07:19.510 --> 01:07:23.121 I said, andre, you mean magnetic field? 01:07:23.121 --> 01:07:25.367 Right, I never heard of electric field, and I was. 01:07:25.367 --> 01:07:27.974 I was schooled in electrical engineering. 01:07:27.974 --> 01:07:32.346 He he said oh, you didn't know that the earth has an electric field. 01:07:33.648 --> 01:07:34.710 I said what are you talking about? 01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:36.753 You're nuts. 01:07:36.753 --> 01:07:54.989 He said no, I mean the ionosphere is positive and the earth is negative and it's like plates of a capacitor and in between those you've got electric field lines running perpendicular to those surfaces and um and and the bottom electrode is the earth. 01:07:54.989 --> 01:07:56.231 It's negatively charged. 01:07:56.231 --> 01:07:58.177 I said I never heard of such a thing. 01:07:58.177 --> 01:07:58.806 You're crazy. 01:07:58.806 --> 01:08:06.967 And andre said I promise you, every middle school student in russia knows that the earth is negatively charged. 01:08:06.967 --> 01:08:15.576 Um, I found out later that that is actually true because I know some senior scientists who come from Russia and they said, yeah, they learned that in middle school. 01:08:15.576 --> 01:08:25.551 So he said there must be something deficient with the educational system in your country and I said well, yeah, I agree with that. 01:08:27.073 --> 01:08:28.716 So I went home with my head spinning. 01:08:28.716 --> 01:08:29.859 Is he right? 01:08:29.859 --> 01:08:31.485 Is it possible that he's right? 01:08:31.485 --> 01:08:39.514 Next morning, one of my students, who was overhearing the conversation, brought to me the famous lectures of Richard Feynman. 01:08:39.514 --> 01:08:53.725 Feynman, you know, was a Nobel physicist who many people think of as the Einstein of the second half of the last century and half of the last century. 01:08:53.725 --> 01:08:57.435 And um, he, he brings to me and it opens, volume two, chapter nine, and it's all about evidence for the negative charge of the earth. 01:08:57.435 --> 01:09:02.668 And after I read that I was convinced, because there was ample evidence. 01:09:02.668

--> 01:09:05.635 It's just that, you know, we don't teach it, we don't. 01:09:05.635 --> 01:09:11.338 People don't understand that the earth has a net negative charge charge. 01:09:11.338 --> 01:09:12.242 To this day it's. 01:09:12.242 --> 01:09:14.929 It's not taught, but I, I to me. 01:09:15.009 --> 01:09:30.274 It turns out some of the subsequent work that I've been doing that not only is the negative charge of the earth interesting, but it's critically important for so many different phenomena, and if we don't recognize that it exists, we're going to go off. 01:09:30.274 --> 01:09:31.636 We on the wrong foundation. 01:09:31.636 --> 01:09:33.439 Uh, because so? 01:09:33.439 --> 01:09:41.225 So now, so closing the loop, what happens if you connect yourself to to the earth electrically? 01:09:41.225 --> 01:09:57.237 What what happens is, um, all those negative charges that are in there, um will sweep into your body in any regions that are short or deficient of EZ, will get filled with electrons and build EZ. 01:09:57.237 --> 01:10:01.885 And that's why if you earth yourself or ground yourself, you feel better. 01:10:01.885 --> 01:10:03.471 I think that's the explanation. 01:10:03.471 --> 01:10:07.055 There are many explanations you'll find throughout the literature. 01:10:07.055 --> 01:10:09.654 I think this is the one that makes a lot of sense to me. 01:10:09.654 --> 01:10:16.599 So those are six expedients that are not difficult to do and can improve your health. 01:10:19.467 --> 01:10:24.877 And just before I stop, there's a sixth one that I need to mention. 01:10:24.877 --> 01:10:40.277 I guess I don't put it in the category of the simplest, but it's really important and that is hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which I've had in my late life, had various reasons. 01:10:40.277 --> 01:10:41.359 And what is that? 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:57.349 So it's a kind of chamber where there's higher than usual pressure and higher than usual oxygen usual pressure and higher than usual oxygen, hyperbaric high pressure. 01:10:57.349 --> 01:10:59.274 So you're breathing almost pure oxygen and at high pressure. 01:10:59.935 --> 01:11:12.706 And again we wondered why it has such positive effects on so many different syndromes, and we indeed found and published a paper showing that high pressure builds EZ and high oxygen builds EZ. 01:11:12.706 --> 01:11:16.819 So you put the two together and it's a powerful builder of EZ. 01:11:16.819 --> 01:11:30.876 So I hesitate to mention it because it's not so easy to get one of these chambers, you have to go to a medical practitioner who has the chamber, and there are many of them around, but they're really effective. 01:11:30.876 --> 01:11:42.478 So, anyway, I hope I've answered your questions about how you can build easy water in your cells and your body and thereby improve health, right? 01:11:42.497 --> 01:11:44.023 No, you did a perfect job. 01:11:44.023 --> 01:11:52.585 And it's so interesting because so many of the things I recommend to patients from hyperbaric to infrared sauna, juicing and everything else right. 01:11:52.585 --> 01:12:02.253 But this really explains on a deeper level what's really going on inside their body and inside their cells and why they're feeling good, too, during this time. 01:12:02.484 --> 01:12:07.711 I'm pleased, but not surprised, that you recommend all that, because it does seem to work. 01:12:09.788 --> 01:12:10.050 And so. 01:12:10.390 --> 01:12:12.636 I bet your clients are really happy dealing with you. 01:12:13.805 --> 01:12:16.734 So I have an interesting question, though, with the spices though. 01:12:16.734 --> 01:12:32.931 So if they're dried spices without water and you take them into your body, or let's say, like tea dried herbs, does it have the same effect as like a fresh plant on your cells? 01:12:32.992 --> 01:12:49.259 to make easy, I uh, I'm not sure of that I'm trying to think through, you know, the herb itself. 01:12:49.259 --> 01:13:01.506 If you put it in water, either, some of them will dissolve, some of them don't dissolve, but if it doesn't dissolve it builds easy water around it. 01:13:01.506 --> 01:13:12.199 So I guess I'm not really sure which one would be more potent. 01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:22.345 Maybe you have some idea about your patients and which ones, what they actually take, and which ones are best for them and which ones not. 01:13:22.345 --> 01:13:25.029 As good Do you do you know that? 01:13:25.636 --> 01:13:26.137 I'm not sure. 01:13:26.137 --> 01:13:43.784 I mean, I always look at tea as, like you know, a more to subtle form to give nutrients versus different extracts or things like that, and so maybe it's a more subtle way as it dissolves in water, versus like the whole plant or juicing the plant and taking the fresh nutrients. 01:13:43.784 --> 01:13:44.327 I don't know. 01:13:44.327 --> 01:13:46.960 I don't know, it's interesting. 01:13:47.039 --> 01:13:49.787 It's a really good question and it's it's worthwhile studying. 01:13:49.787 --> 01:13:51.018 We haven't gotten to that. 01:13:51.018 --> 01:13:56.862 You know just so many things that we can do in the lab the very modest funding that we have. 01:13:56.862 --> 01:14:04.027 It's really difficult to get money to study unorthodox stuff, so that's another topic. 01:14:04.027 --> 01:14:12.963 But rather than expounding on that, I'd rather listen to your questions to see how best I can answer them, if I can. 01:14:14.176 --> 01:14:25.887 So the next question I have kind of moves into can you tell us more about how water can store information and how we could utilize this potential benefit for our own healing? 01:14:26.774 --> 01:14:28.238 Oh, that's a great question. 01:14:28.238 --> 01:14:30.301 That's a great question. 01:14:30.301 --> 01:14:54.728 So I've been intimate with that subject for quite a while and I guess that the most famous person in that field is Masaru Emoto, who passed almost 10 years ago and there's going to be a

memorial ceremony for him in which I'm going to be speaking. 01:14:54.728 --> 01:15:03.806 And for those of your listeners who don't know his work, he was a spiritualist. 01:15:03.806 --> 01:15:16.162 People call him a scientist, but he was actually more of a spiritualist and um, and he discovered, uh, that if he he would project his energy on water, it would impact the water. 01:15:16.162 --> 01:15:22.021 So the way he did it is he would project positive energy or negative energy to contrast the two. 01:15:22.021 --> 01:15:32.842 And if the energy was positive like he would either say I love you to the water or think positive thoughts to the water, then he would freeze the water and he'd get beautiful crystals. 01:15:32.842 --> 01:15:39.663 If he thought I hate you, you're ugly, or something like this, he would freeze the water. 01:15:39.663 --> 01:15:51.525 He got ugly crystals and that made a big hit with a lot of people and his book sold millions of copies, and I know the emotive people very well. 01:15:51.525 --> 01:16:04.399 But one of the problems that scientists object to in that is you know, it seemed that water has a kind of memory or it can store information, but he would. 01:16:04.399 --> 01:16:15.804 He would project the same energy to 50 different containers of water and of the 50, he'd look at them and he'd pick out the one that best illustrated what he wanted to demonstrate. 01:16:15.804 --> 01:16:17.768 Scientists don't do that. 01:16:17.768 --> 01:16:23.083 They'll randomly choose three or four from the 50 and let's look at them and analyze them. 01:16:24.006 --> 01:16:43.725 Um so um, people who are in the know scientifically uniformly reject his work, but other people, um, really like his work, and and I I must admit that right right now there's a woman. 01:16:43.725 --> 01:16:55.689 Her name is Veda Austin, and she's gone on to produce work that is not exactly the same as Emoto, but somewhat different. 01:16:55.689 --> 01:17:11.046 She typically will ask you to, for example, to think about something, and then puts the water in the freezer, and she did it actually in my home, but she's since become very well known with followers. 01:17:11.046 --> 01:17:25.708 She puts it in the freezer for 10 minutes, and so there's a thin film of ice at the top, and in my case I was thinking about a house and, and she pulled it out after 10, and I could see the roof of a house on it. 01:17:25.708 --> 01:17:34.574 And she demonstrates on her website that she'll take some water and she'll write the number four and place it either on top or beneath the chamber. 01:17:34.574 --> 01:17:39.145 It freezes the chamber and in the thin layer of ice you can see the number four. 01:17:39.145 --> 01:17:41.621 That's written so amazing. 01:17:41.621 --> 01:17:47.235 Four that's written so amazing. 01:17:47.337 --> 01:17:49.881 And she'll be speaking at our water conference which, by the way, anybody is welcome to attend. 01:17:49.881 --> 01:17:54.697 It'll

be held in lisbon in october, the middle of october 16th through the 19th. 01:17:54.697 --> 01:17:58.961 If anybody is interested, it's called the url. 01:17:58.961 --> 01:18:13.264 It's called WaterConf, nothing in between, for conference waterconforg, not com waterconforg, and we're happy to see you there. 01:18:13.264 --> 01:18:21.222 And so I mentioned that, not only because she's going to be there and demonstrating what she does, which is really fascinating. 01:18:21.222 --> 01:18:38.256 She does which is really fascinating, but also we used to have Luc Montagnier, nobel laureate, discovered HIV. 01:18:38.275 --> 01:18:38.576 He used to come. 01:18:38.576 --> 01:18:39.237 He came every year for a decade. 01:18:39.237 --> 01:18:46.130 Unfortunately he passed last year and he would present evidence for water memory, and before him I'll tell you about his experiments in a moment. 01:18:46.130 --> 01:19:06.534 And before him was Jacques Benveniste, and he was perhaps most famous for demonstrating information or memory in water, and I'll just briefly tell you his story because it shows what happens when people deviate a lot from the mainstream. 01:19:06.534 --> 01:19:25.439 So Jacques, whom I knew he's passed, he was studying the effect of some antibodies on various cells, of some antibodies on various cells. 01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:28.466 What were the cells? 01:19:28.466 --> 01:19:35.395 I forget for the moment, anyway, the cells. 01:19:35.416 --> 01:19:44.060 He would expose the cells to these antibodies and a very specific reaction took place and the cells would basophils, they were called, called. 01:19:44.060 --> 01:20:04.547 They would secrete, um, I think histamine um, and he was doing these experiments and he was a was a famous uh, scientist, high level scientist, uh, in france, uh and um, and someone came along and said well, I can, I can achieve the same thing in homeopathically diluted antibodies. 01:20:04.547 --> 01:20:19.847 So he'd take the antibodies, he would dilute them by 10 times, shake it the usual way and then dilute it again 10 times, and so on, many, many times dilution and therefore, according to common belief, all you have left is water. 01:20:19.847 --> 01:20:38.859 And he said I can take this water, which has information, he said, from the original solution or suspension, and I can take that water instead of what you use, and expose it, pour it on those cells and the cells would secrete. 01:20:38.859 --> 01:20:40.841 And he said it's impossible. 01:20:40.841 --> 01:20:42.297 Water is not. 01:20:42.297 --> 01:20:45.257 This is a very specific reaction water, no way to do it. 01:20:45.257 --> 01:21:02.327 But uh, on the other hand, you know, there's a empty space in my laboratory parentheses containing 50 people, approximately high level um, scientists, um, and demonstrated, and before long everybody was huddled in that corner around this guy because it worked. 01:21:02.327 --> 01:21:07.844 He could show that homeopathically diluted result could achieve the same thing. 01:21:07.844 --> 01:21:10.354 And the homeopaths were excited about that. 01:21:10.354 --> 01:21:15.265 Because here was this famous scientist uh, you know who's demonstrating? 01:21:15.265 --> 01:21:26.957 Um, demonstrating that the home homeopathy really does have some meaning to it, uh, which a lot of people, and even to this day, are highly skeptical. 01:21:27.899 --> 01:21:38.860 So Jacques Benveniste took the demonstration and started doing his own experiments and then sent it to the journal Nature to publish. 01:21:38.860 --> 01:21:47.350 And the editor of the journal, sir John Maddox, sent back a letter. 01:21:47.350 --> 01:21:51.320 All of this is publicly available, all this what I'm telling you about. 01:21:51.320 --> 01:21:55.676 And he said I'm refusing to publish this article. 01:21:55.676 --> 01:21:59.265 You're a distinguished scientist, but I'm afraid you're wrong. 01:21:59.265 --> 01:22:05.804 You have to be wrong because if you're right then everybody else is wrong, and I can't believe that everybody else is wrong. 01:22:07.006 --> 01:22:09.090 So it seemed that Jacques was defeated. 01:22:09.090 --> 01:22:12.320 But Jacques was not the kind of guy who was easily defeated. 01:22:12.320 --> 01:22:22.237 So he asked colleagues of his a half dozen colleagues from around the world to repeat his experiments exactly and see what they came up with. 01:22:22.237 --> 01:22:25.867 And they all came up with positive results. 01:22:25.867 --> 01:22:29.824 They could get the same effect that he saw. 01:22:29.824 --> 01:22:35.345 And so they resubmitted the paper and the response that came back was pretty much the same. 01:22:35.345 --> 01:22:37.622 I don't care how many people repeat it, it can't be right. 01:22:37.622 --> 01:22:48.948 And that you know, sir John Maddox, when he passed, finally, they couldn't get too many people to speak favorably of him at his funeral or at his memorial service. 01:22:48.948 --> 01:22:50.320 He was that kind of guy. 01:22:53.015 --> 01:23:11.221 And then after that, the homeopaths in Paris where he was working, they objected because, hey, you know, this famous scientist is demonstrating that what we do really is real, it makes sense, and nature is located in London. 01:23:11.221 --> 01:23:16.067 So, very quickly it got from Paris to London and they were feeling under pressure. 01:23:16.067 --> 01:23:22.707 So they sent a, they called Jacques and he told me he said see that red phone over there. 01:23:22.707 --> 01:23:27.260 I got a call from John Maddox and Maddox said I'll make a deal with you. 01:23:27.260 --> 01:23:53.036 I'll publish your work in the next issue of Nature, the most prestigious science journal, nature and Science, and on the one condition, and the condition is we'll send a commission of your peers to look over your shoulder, see what you're doing, and then we'll report back to those readers a few weeks later. 01:23:53.036 -->

01:23:54.779 Will you accept that? 01:23:55.720 --> 01:24:00.689 And and being maybe, uh, beautifully naive, uh, jacques said. 01:24:00.689 --> 01:24:04.682 Of course he didn't realize that this was a setup. 01:24:04.682 --> 01:24:09.600 So and sorry, I'm telling you you can read in many, many different places. 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:12.595 But it's such an interesting story, a sad story in a way. 01:24:12.595 --> 01:24:24.686 So jacques said, sure, no problem, he was confident, even though he said in the paper that finally got published is that this works, not every time, but almost every time. 01:24:24.686 --> 01:24:29.947 Enough to be easily to pass statistical significance, but occasionally it doesn't work. 01:24:30.970 --> 01:24:39.095 So they published the paper and they set up a committee of people to come and visit the laboratory, the foreign visitors. 01:24:39.095 --> 01:24:48.759 And the committee consisted of three people Maddox himself, who had, uh, uh, you know, an axe to grind, um um. 01:24:48.759 --> 01:25:00.042 Next one was a guy named Walter Stewart, and Walter Stewart, um, was working in, uh, an American working in the National Institutes of Health. 01:25:00.042 --> 01:25:08.438 They had just recently built a Center for Scientific Integrity and he was working there. 01:25:08.438 --> 01:25:27.340 And the idea is, if you were cheating in some way, he would go to investigate and find out if you were guilty or not guilty, in theory an objective person and if you were guilty, then you could never receive another NIH grant or other more serious consequences, because you know people historically. 01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:31.841 Someone will say hey, my rabbit, because of XYZ procedure. 01:25:31.841 --> 01:25:35.764 There's a white rabbit that has a black spot on it all the time on its thigh. 01:25:35.764 --> 01:25:42.608 So I'm coming in at 4 am and painting black spots on the rabbits. 01:25:42.608 --> 01:25:43.788 So it didn't occur. 01:25:43.788 --> 01:25:47.011 Naturally it was cheating and they would come to investigate. 01:25:47.011 --> 01:26:00.346 Anyway, this was the second guy and they were obviously suspecting that there might be some cheating going on there, because they were sure that it couldn't be true. 01:26:00.346 --> 01:26:15.378 So he was the second one, that was Walter Stewart, and the third was James Randi, better known as the amazing randy, a magician, um, and a famous musician magician at that, not a musician magician and and uh. 01:26:15.378 --> 01:26:21.365 And he was famous for being able able to uh, to uncover the tricks of other magicians. 01:26:21.365 --> 01:26:23.868 So very talented guy. 01:26:23.868 --> 01:26:33.929 But, ethically speaking, he wound up offering a prize of a million dollars for anybody who could demonstrate water memory. 01:26:33.929 --> 01:26:36.059 He would be the judge himself. 01:26:37.523 --> 01:26:38.265 That's convenient. 01:26:38.787 --> 01:26:49.043 Yeah, so you got three people who were coming and it was like a commando group coming to your laboratory, and so they reproduced the experiment the first day. 01:26:49.043 --> 01:26:53.625 The first day, everything worked exactly as reported. 01:26:53.625 --> 01:26:58.755 The second day they changed the routine a little bit, everything worked exactly as reported. 01:26:58.755 --> 01:27:07.640 And the third day it was Walter Stewart the second one I mentioned who did did the experiment and it almost worked but didn't work. 01:27:07.640 --> 01:27:17.592 And they, they said that sometimes it doesn't work and parenthetically it was that when there's a disbeliever there who does the experiment it doesn't work. 01:27:17.592 --> 01:27:18.576 There's more in that. 01:27:18.576 --> 01:27:22.703 But but let that sit for the for the moment. 01:27:22.703 --> 01:27:32.125 So they huddled in their hotel room and they said hey, it looks like when the French scientists do the dilutions and the experiment, that works. 01:27:32.125 --> 01:27:34.382 When we do it it doesn't work. 01:27:34.382 --> 01:27:36.884 That is N equals one, one attempt. 01:27:37.515 --> 01:27:49.079 And so they went home and the editor wrote a piece that they published and said water, memory is a quote, delusion, a trick and um. 01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:58.283 And from then on, uh, benveniste's career took a plunge, um, he was considered non-serious and and there were jokes. 01:27:58.283 --> 01:28:01.215 Uh, you know, hey, you're having trouble remembering. 01:28:01.215 --> 01:28:02.420 Drink some of benveniste's water. 01:28:02.420 --> 01:28:02.721 It has memory to it. 01:28:02.721 --> 01:28:03.005 So your memory will improve. 01:28:03.005 --> 01:28:04.213 You know, hey, you're having trouble remembering, drink some of benveniste water. 01:28:04.213 --> 01:28:06.101 It has memory to it, so your memory will improve. 01:28:06.101 --> 01:28:07.970 You know that sort of thing. 01:28:07.970 --> 01:28:16.534 He became a scientific joke, he, he became depressed, um, nobody would listen to him and, uh, he died prematurely, unfortunately. 01:28:17.095 --> 01:28:38.963 So I I know various other people who are involved with that, so that anyway, I'm saying this because he was really the the first, the first person um to do serious experiments on water memory, um, and when he died he had been a friend of luke montagnier, the guy I mentioned who came to the nobel laureate. 01:28:38.963 --> 01:28:58.954 So he started taking up experiments where jacques Benveniste left off and he presented his experiments and when you hear from a Nobel laureate you kind of take it seriously, even though Jacques Benveniste was perhaps equally prominent. 01:28:58.954 --> 01:29:07.585 So Luke would do the experiments and he reported at our conference and I'll just tell you briefly what he did because it's so interesting. 01:29:07.585 --> 01:29:10.842 He took two sealed containers. 01:29:10.842 --> 01:29:12.127 He put them near each other. 01:29:12.127 -->

01:29:15.485 The first one had DNA in an aqueous buffer. 01:29:15.485 --> 01:29:20.244 That is water with some other ingredients. 01:29:20.244 --> 01:29:21.627 This is pure water. 01:29:21.627 --> 01:29:26.779 Both are absolutely tightly sealed, sealed so there's no possibility of chemical communication. 01:29:26.779 --> 01:29:34.963 And he said this short sequence of dna, the, the sequence uh, would be transmitted somehow to this water. 01:29:34.963 --> 01:29:42.360 Um, he didn't say how, but some, maybe an electromagnetic kind of signal or some kind of unknown energy. 01:29:42.360 --> 01:29:46.996 And then he took this, threw it away. 01:29:46.996 --> 01:30:19.667 So he's got the water that he hypothesized has all the information either from the DNA, from the sequence, or from the water surrounding the DNA, because he often used dilute, seriously diluted DNA, and he tested this with the PCR method, the one that's used for COVID, and he found, indeed, that the sequence of the DNA that was produced from this water and all the precursors that you need was the same as the original the water had been sitting next to. 01:30:21.395 --> 01:30:26.595 So hardly believed by anybody is this is too astounding. 01:30:26.595 --> 01:30:40.837 If true, on the other hand, you know it's now been repeated and published by three different groups and if if you're willing to take a repetition by independent scientists as a sign of truth and it's a sign of truth. 01:30:40.837 --> 01:30:46.127 So so um luke was at our conference. 01:30:46.127 --> 01:30:50.520 He was very happy because we like like to hear interesting stuff like this. 01:30:50.520 --> 01:31:32.122 On the other hand, people began to hate him for none of that, but because of his political views, anti-virus views, which were not really anti-virus but coming with the idea that if there's a danger that you know and he was a physician to start with, and so he was one of the anti-virus movement, and so a lot of people discredited him for that and then, unfortunately, he passed. 01:31:32.122 --> 01:31:35.943 So I'm giving you this information because you asked me about water memory. 01:31:35.943 --> 01:31:39.805 So Jacques Membiniste produced clear evidence of that. 01:31:39.805 --> 01:31:53.913 That has in fact been reproduced in many laboratories since then and Lou Montagnier, nobel laureate, produced evidence that has been reproduced in other laboratories. 01:31:53.954 --> 01:32:05.047 And each year at this conference we have other people who come and use different techniques and demonstrate that water has the capacity to store information and has a memory. 01:32:05.047 --> 01:32:11.287 And we ourselves are now engaged in studying whether this is the case or not. 01:32:11.287 --> 01:32:15.246 We haven't serious results yet but we're working on it. 01:32:15.246 --> 01:32:29.865 We take water and we have a healer who comes to the laboratory, projects his or her energy on the water and we compare the physical chemical properties before and after to see if there's some difference in the water. 01:32:29.865 --> 01:32:40.564 So we have no serious results yet, but we were embarking on that, so we'll see if that's the case. 01:32:40.564 --> 01:33:00.769 But in our conference Elizabeth and I said this year almost everybody who attends is open to that point of view that water may indeed have stored information or received the energy from information-based energy in the water. 01:33:00.769 --> 01:33:04.523 And of course the evidence is there. 01:33:04.523 --> 01:33:08.121 It's just that a lot of people are not willing to pay attention to it. 01:33:08.582 --> 01:33:23.850 But the reason I think it's possible that the information is stored in EZ water see, ordinary water has randomly oriented molecules bouncing around. 01:33:23.850 --> 01:33:28.001 You wouldn't expect any kind of information to be stored in the system like that. 01:33:28.001 --> 01:33:35.020 That's moving around, uh, and a femtosecond time scale, you know, and randomly oriented. 01:33:35.020 --> 01:33:36.764 But easy water is different. 01:33:36.764 --> 01:33:53.841 It has structure to it and if you compare the structure of easy water, where you have regularly disposed oxygens and hydrogens, forming those hexagons, they're ordered in two dimensions and those stacks are ordered too, they're ordered in three dimensions. 01:33:53.841 --> 01:33:56.842 It's almost the same as a computer memory. 01:33:56.842 --> 01:34:05.198 If you think about how, if you've got a thumb drive that you're using to store information, you stick into your laptop. 01:34:06.283 --> 01:34:06.725 What is it? 01:34:06.725 --> 01:34:28.268 Well, it's basically a planar structure that has transistors that are packed in it, regularly disposed in two dimensions, and each one of the transistors can be on or off, or zero one, and it's the array of zeros and ones that stores the information. 01:34:28.268 --> 01:34:59.948 Well, the EZ is much the same, except it's a three-dimensional array, not a two-dimensional, which gives you another dimension of information, and it has oxygens and hydrogens, and the oxygens are known to to have not two but five different oxidation states, or charge states, uh, the, the one that we think of most frequently, that we learn in in school, in high school, I, I guess, minus two, that's the so-called valence. 01:34:59.948 --> 01:35:09.488 But oxygen can be not only minus two, but it can be minus one, zero, plus one or plus two, and you can read about that in any chemistry textbook. 01:35:09.488 --> 01:35:13.979 It's not arcane information, but it can have all of those charge states. 01:35:13.979 --> 01:35:29.637 So if you think about the EZ array, it's got entities and regularly disposed entities, the oxygens that can take on different states, not just two but five, and you've got it in three dimensions instead of two, and everything. 01:35:29.637 --> 01:35:32.795 So it should have the capacity to store

information. 01:35:32.795 --> 01:35:53.597 It's very similar to the computer memory in that sense and because the structures are at an atomic level rather than a transistor level, it means they're really packed tightly and we made a calculation if it really, if the easy really works the way we think it might work. 01:35:53.597 --> 01:36:05.068 It's packed so tightly that the information density is something I think we computed like a billion times the density that we have now. 01:36:05.068 --> 01:36:20.645 So we now have a pretty small drive or thumb drive that we can put in, but in the future, if we're right about this, then a computer could be the size of a pinhead. 01:36:21.667 --> 01:36:39.220 Wow, yeah, so you asked a short question, I gave a long answer and, to summarize, the answer is that there's a lot of information, information supporting the idea that water can store information. 01:36:39.782 --> 01:36:51.100 Beyond Emoto and his stuff, which is so interesting, and the principle of storage, I think it lies in the structure of easy water. 01:36:51.100 --> 01:36:54.247 So we're looking forward to in the future. 01:36:54.247 --> 01:37:16.605 One of the things that we would like to develop if we ever get money to support our work and pursuing this is to actually do what's necessary to develop a memory system, a usable memory system that's based on easy water, and we can imagine we can now produce easy water that's in gel form, in solid form actually. 01:37:16.605 --> 01:37:25.827 This was originally found by an Italian group, but we produced their work, and so we can take EZ water and convert it into a solid. 01:37:25.827 --> 01:37:31.664 You know you could powder and all you need is add water and the EZ is restored. 01:37:31.664 --> 01:37:46.048 So we can put that into the computer memory and that you know you can imagine putting powder or something into a device rather than a gel into a device, so it may even be practical. 01:37:46.048 --> 01:37:50.426 Okay, I think I need to shut up and wait for your other questions. 01:37:51.935 --> 01:38:03.131 I think what you've explained to our audience so far is pretty amazing of what water can do and how to look at the substance, not just a substance that's in our bodies and just part of us it's. 01:38:03.131 --> 01:38:14.926 It has real healing power on all levels and the potentials for what we can do, whether it's information storage and everything within us too, and utilizing that to heal ourselves. 01:38:14.926 --> 01:38:21.520 I think I think the potential is endless if we get the information out I'm I'm really excited about it. 01:38:21.801 --> 01:38:22.443 Uh, there's there. 01:38:22.443 --> 01:38:30.119 There's so much more to be done and the limiting factor actually is funding. 01:38:30.119 --> 01:38:33.368 It's really hard to get. 01:38:33.368 --> 01:38:56.944 You know, you submit an application to a granting agency and if the reviewers, first of all, if they don't know about easy water, they don't have the time to like, read, read the book or look in the literature, and so it's easy for them to put that at the bottom of the pile and also the idea that if they do know about it, they're being challenged. 01:38:57.787 --> 01:38:58.087 Right. 01:38:58.328 --> 01:38:59.435 They don't like to be challenged. 01:38:59.435 --> 01:39:00.417 You know they don't like their stoves. 01:39:00.417 --> 01:39:00.979 Their toes are fragile. 01:39:00.998 --> 01:39:10.997 Know they don't like their stoves, their toes are fragile they don't want to be stepped on, uh, and so the only way that that we've been able recently to get money is through private donors. 01:39:10.997 --> 01:39:25.807 And you know, and we actually we had a donor who read my fourth phase book, fourth phase of water, uh, and he sent an emissary, uh, to me to have lunch with me to find out if I was an okay guy. 01:39:25.807 --> 01:39:30.541 He liked the book, he liked the contents, he loved the contents, but he didn't know me. 01:39:30.541 --> 01:39:43.743 So this guy it wasn't an interview exactly, but we sat down over lunch and we had a lot of discussions and we shared a lot of the same visions and he reported back to the billionaire guy. 01:39:43.743 --> 01:40:09.246 He's OK and so soon after we got very nice funding from him, but unfortunately, after a few years he continued to love what we were producing, but he said he ran into a financial problem that his assets now were mostly, or almost exclusively, tied into very large investments that he couldn't easily convert into cash, and so he had to. 01:40:09.246 --> 01:40:12.154 He gave me a year's notice and he had to stop. 01:40:12.255 --> 01:40:17.971 And he's helping to look around for people who might be able to be in a position to fund us. 01:40:17.971 --> 01:40:19.136 So we're really. 01:40:19.136 --> 01:40:35.872 It's a statement about the scientific system, you know, and it's pervaded history, if you do something that challenges the mainstream thinking, there are consequences, and for us, main consequences are trying to get funding, and so our laboratory is operating. 01:40:35.872 --> 01:40:55.043 It's operating nicely, but not at full speed, and so we look forward to finding people who have done well and want to contribute some way to science in a meaningful way, and so we're trying to find such supporters. 01:40:55.043 --> 01:40:59.506 Anyway, I thought I would mention that because it is a limiting factor. 01:40:59.506 --> 01:41:08.259 There are so many things and the other things you mentioned that we'd like to do, but you know, if you don't have the people to carry out the experiments, you can't do them right. 01:41:08.338 --> 01:41:31.503 I think getting that information out there is important too, because then the right people will find it I, I think so, I hope so okay, I have one more question for you, because I know, I know we're running out on time, and this one's a little different, because I was reading

somewhere, listening, that your next book is on the structure of the atom and you come up with an alternative model to that. 01:41:32.747 --> 01:41:32.947 Yep. 01:41:34.952 --> 01:41:49.484 Can you tell us a little bit about that, as we're kind of questioning everything that we think of as kind of the foundation, whether it's cell, energy or muscle the subject is dear to my heart. 01:41:50.164 --> 01:41:57.422 And, uh, and, as you're suggesting, if you, you know, if you build on a foundation that's wrong, it's got cracks in it. 01:41:57.422 --> 01:42:00.976 Every structure that you build on that foundation will be erroneous. 01:42:00.976 --> 01:42:07.529 Um and uh, I guess I really do feel that way. 01:42:07.529 --> 01:42:10.944 So, okay, so think about the atom. 01:42:10.944 --> 01:42:12.421 This is not complicated stuff. 01:42:12.421 --> 01:42:15.003 So what does the atom consist of? 01:42:15.003 --> 01:42:22.963 It consists of a nucleus and it consists of electrons, or electron clouds that surround the nucleus. 01:42:24.796 --> 01:42:32.787 And even though the model has been amended again and again and again by quantum mechanical considerations, still that essence remains. 01:42:32.787 --> 01:42:43.783 There's still a nucleus and it's got neutrons and protons and electrons in various orbitals around it and they're negatively charged. 01:42:43.783 --> 01:42:50.064 And so the nucleus is positively charged because it's got neutrons, which are neutral. 01:42:50.064 --> 01:43:00.881 It's got protons, which are positive, and you know, protons want to repel each other and if you put them very close to one another, the repulsive force becomes huge. 01:43:00.881 --> 01:43:03.550 The closer they get, the bigger the force. 01:43:03.550 --> 01:43:05.997 Uh, it's an inverse, square relationship. 01:43:05.997 --> 01:43:11.114 So, you know, you try to take it's like pushing two north poles of two magnets together. 01:43:11.114 --> 01:43:12.921 I don't want to, we don't want to be that way. 01:43:12.921 --> 01:43:14.606 So it's it. 01:43:14.606 --> 01:43:18.698 It's like in spades in the nucleus because some of the heavier atoms. 01:43:18.698 --> 01:43:23.364 You're sticking together numerous protons right next to one another, pretty much. 01:43:24.567 --> 01:43:26.856 So when you think about it, what? 01:43:26.856 --> 01:43:28.219 What do you expect to happen? 01:43:28.219 --> 01:43:31.104 Well, the nucleus will explode, right. 01:43:31.104 --> 01:43:35.942 But you can't have a stable atom when the nucleus explode. 01:43:35.942 --> 01:43:42.565 And so the physicists actually thought about that and they invented something to remedy the problem. 01:43:42.565 --> 01:43:43.872 So what's the remedy? 01:43:43.872 --> 01:43:48.225 Well, the remedy is something called the strong force. 01:43:48.225 --> 01:43:51.293 So this, the physicist said there must be. 01:43:51.293 --> 01:44:00.019 Since we know that that model is correct, you know, all the physicists were ready to accept it there's got to be something to hold together the nucleus. 01:44:00.019 --> 01:44:03.145 And they invented something called the strong force. 01:44:03.145 --> 01:44:08.845 As far as I've ever been able to see, there's no independent evidence of a strong force. 01:44:08.845 --> 01:44:16.125 It's a kind of glue that does nothing but hold the nucleus together and thwarting its tendency to explode. 01:44:16.125 --> 01:44:21.435 So this is one problem, but it's not the main problem. 01:44:21.435 --> 01:44:30.319 You can't have nuclei exploding, otherwise it would be so-called nuclear explosion, and okay. 01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:41.268 Second problem I learned in middle school or it was called junior high at the time and you learned too, that positive charge and negative charge attract each other, right? 01:44:41.268 --> 01:44:55.097 So think about it the nucleus is positive, but all those electrons are negative, they attract one another right, and so you can imagine the consequence of that. 01:44:55.097 --> 01:45:00.887 That is, the atom will contract to nothing. 01:45:00.887 --> 01:45:07.235 All these electrons would coalesce on the nucleus and you have no atom left. 01:45:07.235 --> 01:45:11.565 You have just a spot left, a tiny spot. 01:45:11.565 --> 01:45:13.872 So you've got two basic problems. 01:45:13.872 --> 01:45:27.060 One is the problem of that the nucleus will want to explode unless you invent something to prevent it, and the electrons will want to collapse onto the nucleus and you've got no atom left. 01:45:27.060 --> 01:45:29.202 So the construct is unstable. 01:45:29.202 --> 01:45:30.104 But there's more. 01:45:31.456 --> 01:45:38.381 Suppose you're a random electron that comes into an atom, and first thing is you have to figure out. 01:45:38.381 --> 01:45:41.201 There are orbitals this is part of the theory. 01:45:41.201 --> 01:45:47.018 The first one has two electrons, the next one has eight, and so on, and you've got to figure out. 01:45:47.018 --> 01:46:02.561 In theory you're supposed to land on one of these orbitals, and you've got to figure out whether the orbital has seven or eight, because if it has seven, yeah, you want to land there, or it says you should be landing there, but if it has eight you can't. 01:46:02.561 --> 01:46:03.960 How are you going to figure that out? 01:46:03.960 --> 01:46:19.904 You're an electron and also, since you're an electron, you repel other electrons, and the last thing you want to do is join one of those orbitals with other electron neighbors nearby where you prefer to sit in between the orbitals. 01:46:19.904 --> 01:46:24.322 But that's not allowed in the model, so you've got a problem there. 01:46:25.636 --> 01:46:29.885 Finally, there are more, but most atoms. 01:46:29.885 --> 01:46:32.380 At room temperature they form solids. 01:46:32.380 --> 01:46:36.065 So my laptop sitting here is I think it's aluminum. 01:46:36.065 --> 01:46:46.126 So you take two aluminum atoms in order

to get a solid I should say 90% of atoms in the periodic table. 01:46:46.126 --> 01:46:56.502 At room temperature they form solids, which means the atoms need to stick to one another, otherwise you can't get a solid, right, um and so? 01:46:56.502 --> 01:47:00.007 So I'm giving an aluminum as an example, two aluminum atoms. 01:47:00.007 --> 01:47:04.886 They need to have a a strong tendency to stick together to form a solid. 01:47:04.886 --> 01:47:12.868 Now think about it the outer shell here is electrons and the outer shell here is electrons. 01:47:12.868 --> 01:47:14.578 You bring these two atoms together. 01:47:14.578 --> 01:47:21.242 They don't want to join one another, they want to repel each other, and so how are they going to form a solid? 01:47:22.262 --> 01:47:30.487 And the chemistry textbook says something about sharing electrons, but I could never figure out how sharing electrons solves this problem. 01:47:30.487 --> 01:47:34.043 So I mean it's a real problem. 01:47:34.043 --> 01:47:41.948 So there's a multitude of very simple problems that impact the theory of this. 01:47:41.948 --> 01:47:46.079 On the other hand, you hand the model's been around for five or six generations. 01:47:46.079 --> 01:48:03.246 Five, yeah, well, it was early 1900s and typically we think if it's been in the textbooks for five generations, there's no question that it must be right, and we presume most of us presume that it must be right. 01:48:03.246 --> 01:48:20.788 But if it's right, you need to address these fundamental problems and therefore I think it's not right and I think we've been deluded into thinking that it's right, and we've built so much of science on the pretext or the presumption that it must be right. 01:48:20.788 --> 01:48:48.561 But it leads to mechanisms that are very complicated, and usually you know, if we take Occam's razor principle, that you've got two ideas and the simpler one is likely to prevail, and that's pervaded science for ever since Newton thought it was a good idea to take this theological idea, originally from Sir William of Ockham, and translate it into a scientific paradigm or way of thinking. 01:48:48.561 --> 01:48:54.342 Everybody believed it until about 100 years ago, with the advent of quantum mechanics. 01:48:54.783 --> 01:49:00.319 And quantum mechanics nobody can understand, because there's no understanding, it's pure abstract mathematics. 01:49:00.319 --> 01:49:08.118 And so if you're an expert in mathematics, you can deal with quantum mechanics. 01:49:08.118 --> 01:49:14.926 If you're not an expert, you have to rely on all those smart physicists who you presume they know what they're talking about. 01:49:14.926 --> 01:49:24.243 They know what they're doing and they're dealing with the intricacies of quantum mechanics as amendments to the structure of the atom. 01:49:24.243 --> 01:49:32.119 And there are some observations to speak for the positivity of quantum mechanics, but there are others that say no. 01:49:32.119 --> 01:49:38.764 No, this is that Mother Nature doesn't operate with abstract mathematics. 01:49:38.764 --> 01:49:46.917 Mother Nature operates on simple principles and I guess I'm a believer in the simple principle idea. 01:49:46.917 --> 01:50:03.506 So so the atom, even as amended, modified, still we have the same basic construct of nucleus and electrons and for the reasons I spoke to you and others, doesn't work. 01:50:03.707 --> 01:50:16.225 So something else has to work, and the book first of all describes the problems and then it describes something else, and I think that something else is primarily a cubic structure of atom. 01:50:16.225 --> 01:50:24.328 You know, if you have cubic structures, you can put two of them together nicely and join them without any intervening space. 01:50:24.328 --> 01:50:30.908 If you take two spheres, like the current idea, and you try to bring them together, they meet at one point. 01:50:30.908 --> 01:50:32.742 The rest of it is open space. 01:50:32.742 --> 01:50:34.319 What's in the open space? 01:50:34.319 --> 01:50:41.024 Nobody has been talking about the open space, but the cubic model explains that. 01:50:41.024 --> 01:50:51.846 It explains how you're able to stick two atoms together If you have positive charge I'm simplifying positive charge on this face negative charge. 01:50:51.846 --> 01:50:56.503 They stick together very easily and they'll maintain their stickiness. 01:50:56.503 --> 01:51:12.648 A few chapters describing how this simple model can explain many features of modern physics and chemistry in very simple ways. 01:51:12.707 --> 01:51:39.940 And what I discovered this is the final point, I'm sorry, going on and on, but what we discovered, what I discovered after I'd written a draft of this book and like other books that I'm in the process of producing and my son is the artist, and he decided to take three and a half years to remodel his home because his family is growing, which means I have no artists for three and a half years, which means I can draft books, you know, and it's just waiting in line. 01:51:39.940 --> 01:51:46.935 So so, um, a book is coming out soon about the effect of, uh, electrical charge in nature. 01:51:46.935 --> 01:51:50.743 Um, and then the adam book, is is the next one, but it's been. 01:51:50.743 --> 01:52:18.061 It's been uh, wait, waiting there and um, um, so some some, he's a great artist and some illustrations need to be, but you know, I think this is this book is is, um, uh, what I was going to say is I discovered after the book was written that, um, the same idea came from one of the most famous chemists a hundred years ago. 01:52:18.923 --> 01:52:24.081 Um, I, I was actually not thinking that. 01:52:24.081 --> 01:52:28.604 Oh, I'm just repeating what this guy did because I found it independently. 01:52:28.604 --> 01:52:41.525 I came to the same idea, but if you know the history, which most people don't know, it was the era of physics and the

previous century was the era of chemistry. 01:52:41.525 --> 01:52:51.162 But with Einstein and Niels Bohr and other Max Planckans who came, it became to be the era of physics, and so physics dominated the scene. 01:52:51.162 --> 01:53:00.905 And Niels Bohr, who was the architect of this structure, he was ultra-famous and distinguished. 01:53:00.905 --> 01:53:14.417 And so, since it was the era of physics, the physicists liked this particular idea, this so-called solar system model, and then they went on to modify it with quantum mechanics. 01:53:14.417 --> 01:53:16.082 But the chemists hated it. 01:53:16.082 --> 01:53:28.015 And so the two most famous chemists of the day, gn Lewis and Irving Langmuir, who are legends in the field of chemistry, and they said this is nonsense. 01:53:28.637 --> 01:53:34.228 And I found something from Lewis in one of his notebooks. 01:53:34.228 --> 01:53:40.604 It shows the structure of different atoms with cubical shapes with electrons at the corner. 01:53:40.604 --> 01:54:00.336 It's not exactly the same as I'm suggesting, but the idea is so similar that I found myself extremely gratified to see that among the most famous chemists of the day, who rejected the physics model, saying it just doesn't explain the simplest of chemical reactions you know. 01:54:00.336 --> 01:54:01.180 So it can't be right. 01:54:01.180 --> 01:54:05.141 So that gave me a boost of energy. 01:54:05.141 --> 01:54:07.979 Anyway, I'm looking forward to the publication. 01:54:07.979 --> 01:54:12.457 I know that among physicists it will not be well received, but that's okay. 01:54:12.457 --> 01:54:17.068 I have to put forth what I think is maybe close to the truth. 01:54:17.068 --> 01:54:22.186 So I'm sorry for my long-winded answers to your short questions. 01:54:23.215 --> 01:54:46.880 Well, that was an intense question, especially to end with, but I think everything you've given today will help people question things, and question kind of things that they might have taken for granted or just believed, because that was what it was, rather than what really science is, which is questioning, stepping back and not attaching to what we know and saying is this right, does this make sense? 01:54:46.880 --> 01:54:49.527 So I think you brought a lot of great points too. 01:54:50.314 --> 01:54:52.462 Well, thank you for that, and I fully agree with you. 01:54:52.462 --> 01:54:58.426 I think that's probably the most important take-home message what you read in the textbook is not necessarily right. 01:54:59.256 --> 01:55:13.331 Mm-hmm, yeah, so having the ability to question it and the courage to speak out or say something about it, even though most people don't really want to hear the other side. 01:55:13.511 --> 01:55:22.596 That's the other thing, that's right yeah, we feel comfortable in in the sort of a sphere of understanding that we have, that we learned, that we thought about. 01:55:22.596 --> 01:55:30.310 If someone says, oh you, that balloon has a hole in it, it doesn't sit right mostly. 01:55:30.796 --> 01:55:34.426 It's too bad, because you know I think that we need to change the system. 01:55:34.426 --> 01:55:39.734 The system needs serious change because you know it doesn't produce scientific revolutions. 01:55:39.734 --> 01:55:44.134 We need scientific revolutions to improve our world. 01:55:44.134 --> 01:56:03.587 The world has so many problems and usually if you have a scientific revolution, almost always there's some new technology that comes out of it you could never even dream of before that revolution, like, for example, discovering at Bell Laboratories 80 or 90 years ago semiconductors. 01:56:03.587 --> 01:56:09.244 Who would ever have thought that semiconductors could lead to laptops and zoom communications? 01:56:09.244 --> 01:56:13.655 Uh, you know, but that's what happened. 01:56:13.655 --> 01:56:16.081 And uh, you know. 01:56:16.081 --> 01:56:18.685 And and other similar discoveries. 01:56:18.685 --> 01:56:37.041 They they lead to technological applications and those applications can do a lot for our society, especially now that we have so many societal problems that need solution, and some of them obviously will be solved through political, hopefully solved through political means. 01:56:37.041 --> 01:56:52.287 But other than that, scientific input into that can solve some of the more or even most serious problems, like getting getting drinkable water, getting energy those are all into the realm of science. 01:56:52.448 --> 01:56:59.376 Yet you know there can be wars over water, and I think there already are to some extent getting getting water. 01:56:59.376 --> 01:57:06.548 So, yes, the most important take-home message is, I think, is retain an open mind. 01:57:06.548 --> 01:57:10.207 If something doesn't make sense to you, it doesn't mean that you're stupid. 01:57:10.207 --> 01:57:13.796 It may mean that the idea doesn't have any merit at all. 01:57:13.796 --> 01:57:17.661 It's just humans that invent these ideas. 01:57:17.661 --> 01:57:20.123 And you know we all pee in the same pot. 01:57:20.123 --> 01:57:23.527 So there we go. 01:57:23.707 --> 01:57:24.347 Exactly. 01:57:24.788 --> 01:57:27.492 Okay, I hope that does it yes. 01:57:28.275 --> 01:57:31.832 Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing everything with our readers. 01:57:31.891 --> 01:57:34.440 I greatly appreciate it my pleasure and thanks for those great questions. 01:57:34.882 --> 01:57:35.966 Okay, thank you, bye.