EP 229: Live Unashamed - A Recovery Lifestyle의 전체 녹취록

00:03:14.838 Uh, that's a, that's a p- pretty hard task to, work that much and manage recovery, 00:03:14.838 --> 00:03:16.078 so I'm curious how it's been for you. 00:03:16.348 --> 00:03:16.708 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:03:16.708 --> 00:03:18.868 It's been, um, lots of ups and downs. 00:03:18.948 --> 00:03:21.708 Like I did have several relapses. 00:03:21.728 --> 00:03:26.678 And I think it's been this huge adventure of trying to figure all this out, where 00:03:27.248 --> 00:03:30.778 when I'm living away from home, you know, I'm away from my kids, I'm away from my 00:03:30.778 --> 00:03:33.918 wife, and I have zero time for myself. 00:03:33.968 --> 00:03:38.322 Being the director and being in charge, I have people at any given 00:03:38.322 --> 00:03:42.332 time needing my attention, asking me questions, coming to me for stuff. 00:03:42.362 --> 00:03:47.422 Like, the only time I have time for myself is, like, in the bathroom 00:03:47.872 --> 00:03:50.812 for those, like, five, 10 minutes that I hide away from there. 00:03:51.122 --> 00:03:54.182 But I'm up at 6:00, I'm going to bed at, like, 1:00 in the morning. 00:03:54.292 --> 00:03:54.442 Mm. 00:03:54.452 --> 00:04:00.632 And so, I realized while I was there that, um, when I was 00:04:00.772 --> 00:04:02.052 struggling with these relapses, 00:04:02.366 --> 00:04:04.096 I was just needing something for myself. 00:04:04.516 --> 00:04:09.636 Like, I had no time for me, and so it became, like, those moments 00:04:09.636 --> 00:04:14.486 where, where I'd, give in to, to my addiction was more just trying to 00:04:14.486 --> 00:04:18.316 find something that was just for me and no one else, and just have it. 00:04:18.566 --> 00:04:21.996 But then I'd go home, and I've been home for a few weeks now. 00:04:23.216 --> 00:04:24.486 No problems at all. 00:04:24.496 --> 00:04:24.516 Mm-hmm. 00:04:24.526 --> 00:04:29.446 Literally, like, I think I j- I built such a solid foundation at my 00:04:29.446 --> 00:04:33.996 house and in my home life that I know how to operate and how to put God 00:04:33.996 --> 00:04:36.506 first in my recovery when I'm there. 00:04:36.776 --> 00:04:42.716 But when I'm working away, on site, I'm still figuring out how to put God first 00:04:43.046 --> 00:04:49.086 in my recovery there, because my job is so demanding for those three months. 00:04:49.786 --> 00:04:54.176 I'm still struggling to figure out how to keep God very much involved 00:04:54.176 --> 00:04:58.696 in my recovery, and I've noticed that's been a huge effect in my life. 00:04:58.696 --> 00:04:58.886 Well, so 00:04:58.886 --> 00:04:59.346 Speaker: let me ask you. 00:04:59.346 --> 00:05:01.486 Is it, is it about putting God first? 00:05:01.486 --> 00:05:06.116 Or is it about when you're home, you know how to create safety for yourself, 00:05:06.546 --> 00:05:09.376 and when you're away, you don't know how to create safety for yourself? 00:05:09.656 --> 00:05:10.046 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:05:10.166 --> 00:05:10.706 I mean, yeah, 00:05:10.706 --> 00:05:11.676 Speaker: could be- It could be a combination of all 00:05:11.676 --> 00:05:12.326 that, but I'm ju- Right. 00:05:12.336 --> 00:05:13.076 No, that's a- I'm stating… 00:05:13.076 --> 00:05:13.956 Wanted to point that out, right? 00:05:14.006 --> 00:05:16.056 Speaker 2: No, that's a, that's a very good way of stating it 00:05:16.096 --> 00:05:17.176 and putting it, 'cause it is. 00:05:17.226 --> 00:05:20.346 For those three months it's not nothing's about me. 00:05:20.386 --> 00:05:23.106 Like, I'm putting, I'm fighting for these kids' hearts, I'm 00:05:23.106 --> 00:05:24.166 fighting for my staff's heart. 00:05:24.176 --> 00:05:24.186 Mm. 00:05:24.206 --> 00:05:26.006 I'm putting everything out on the table for them. 00:05:26.546 --> 00:05:30.676 I'm not concerned about my safety or what I'm needing or anything like that, and 00:05:30.676 --> 00:05:32.656 so then things start coming out sideways. 00:05:32.656 --> 00:05:34.806 But when I'm home, I do have that time and that space to 00:05:34.816 --> 00:05:36.606 be like, "What is safe for me? 00:05:36.996 --> 00:05:38.476 What, what do I need? 00:05:38.866 --> 00:05:44.566 What needs to happen to make sure that I'm in a good space, for my recovery?" 00:05:45.156 --> 00:05:50.456 Um, so yeah, I need to kind of figure out how do I create those 00:05:50.456 --> 00:05:55.116 safe spaces, in the other aspects of my job, which is a big question. 00:05:55.126 --> 00:05:55.146 Yeah. 00:05:55.306 --> 00:05:56.196 I'm still figuring it out. 00:05:56.536 --> 00:05:58.856 Speaker: What I, I think- Yeah, sounds like it … I know we were gonna go 00:05:58.856 --> 00:06:02.196 a different direction, but I wanna even maybe go deeper into this too, 00:06:02.196 --> 00:06:06.376 because I know there's a lot of people out there that travel- Mm … that 00:06:06.466 --> 00:06:10.956 leave or li- maybe they're gone for a while fro- away from their spouses 00:06:10.956 --> 00:06:13.076 or, or whatever, and what do they do? 00:06:13.096 --> 00:06:15.186 That's where a lot of times where they, they may act out, but at 00:06:15.196 --> 00:06:16.036 home- Totally … they don't. 00:06:16.106 --> 00:06:16.286 Speaker 4: Totally. 00:06:16.286 --> 00:06:16.566 Right? 00:06:16.686 --> 00:06:18.036 That was my dad- And so- … to a T. 00:06:18.036 --> 00:06:23.246 I mean, ev- my, my mom knew that the, what she found on, on my dad's history 00:06:23.326 --> 00:06:27.906 was him viewing pornography because it was while he was on, a business trip. 00:06:27.906 --> 00:06:28.486 I mean, that's- 00:06:28.506 --> 00:06:28.796 Speaker: Yeah 00:06:28.836 --> 00:06:30.126 Speaker 4: that was when he would act out. 00:06:30.216 --> 00:06:34.836 And especially if, prostitution or, uh, affairs- Yeah … is 00:06:34.836 --> 00:06:35.666 part of your acting out. 00:06:35.936 --> 00:06:39.727 That's a, that's a easy time to get access to, women and have no 00:06:39.727 --> 00:06:40.967 accountability for

it, so- Yeah. 00:06:40.967 --> 00:06:41.147 Yeah. 00:06:41.287 --> 00:06:41.607 Speaker 3: Definitely. 00:06:41.607 --> 00:06:44.347 Sometimes that's the culture of the business- Totally … that you're 00:06:44.347 --> 00:06:45.967 going on the trip with, where- Totally. 00:06:45.967 --> 00:06:49.677 Yep … that's kind of the s- expected behavior of everyone 00:06:49.677 --> 00:06:50.847 who goes, which is- Yeah. 00:06:50.987 --> 00:06:51.777 Yeah … crazy. 00:06:51.927 --> 00:06:54.047 Speaker: I, I work with a lot of like summer sales guys. 00:06:54.217 --> 00:06:54.487 Right. 00:06:54.497 --> 00:06:54.727 Yeah. 00:06:55.007 --> 00:06:56.557 And so that, that is very much 00:06:56.558 --> 00:07:01.470 a big culture for- a lot and drugs and alcohol and, because they're making a lot 00:07:01.470 --> 00:07:03.390 of money in such a short amount of time. 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:03.840 Speaker 4: Mm. 00:07:03.870 --> 00:07:05.330 Speaker: And a lot of them are younger dudes that are 00:07:05.330 --> 00:07:07.070 just like- Mm … early 20s. 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:10.630 They have no idea how to manage money, and they're like, "I'm making 00:07:10.650 --> 00:07:13.490 80 grand in three months or 100 grand in three months," and they're 00:07:13.490 --> 00:07:15.720 like, "I'm like rolling, man. 00:07:15.730 --> 00:07:18.480 Like, I can do whatever," and then they, they blow it all and 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.570 they're like, "Now what do I do?" 00:07:20.070 --> 00:07:20.350 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:07:20.370 --> 00:07:20.650 Speaker: You know? 00:07:20.670 --> 00:07:22.750 But they're blowing it on prostitutes. 00:07:22.830 --> 00:07:25.110 Like I see a lot of that, even, even married guys. 00:07:25.250 --> 00:07:25.440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:07:25.530 --> 00:07:25.730 Mm. 00:07:25.770 --> 00:07:29.470 Speaker: Um, and then even, uh, obviously porn use, a lot of, like, 00:07:29.470 --> 00:07:31.600 cocaine, will be in a lot of that too. 00:07:32.140 --> 00:07:34.190 Um, not, not so much meth. 00:07:34.190 --> 00:07:38.080 I don't, I don't hear much with meth, but, prescription drugs, totally part of it. 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:41.460 So they'll go into a lot of that stuff because they're just out and about. 00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:42.900 It's a different lifestyle. 00:07:43.950 --> 00:07:48.590 I'm doing a, a keynote for the Utah Dental Association in their fa- 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:50.370 their conference this, November. 00:07:50.780 --> 00:07:55.386 It's a mental health conference , and, for out of professionals, the dentists 00:07:55.436 --> 00:07:57.206 have the highest suicide rate. 00:07:57.366 --> 00:07:57.596 Speaker 4: Mm. 00:07:57.796 --> 00:07:58.036 Speaker: Yeah. 00:07:58.036 --> 00:08:00.876 But they're having me come- I've heard that … and talk about relationships, 00:08:01.406 --> 00:08:03.006 like addiction and relationships. 00:08:03.066 --> 00:08:03.296 Speaker 4: Hmm. 00:08:03.756 --> 00:08:06.216 Speaker: Because they don't know how to have relationships. 00:08:06.216 --> 00:08:09.566 They don't know how to do that, and so when they go away for dental 00:08:09.566 --> 00:08:13.216 conferences, a lot of times they're looking for something to make them come 00:08:13.216 --> 00:08:15.006 \ alive because they're so wrapped up in their work. 00:08:15.006 --> 00:08:17.629 And then when they, they go and they have this week being out in 00:08:17.629 --> 00:08:20.379 this conference, and they don't know how to have a relationship 00:08:20.379 --> 00:08:22.319 with their family life at home. 00:08:22.369 --> 00:08:24.549 And so they're just like, "Well, I need to find something to make 00:08:24.549 --> 00:08:25.629 my feel, make me feel alive." 00:08:25.629 --> 00:08:28.119 And so they step out on the marriage and- Mm 00:08:28.209 --> 00:08:30.479 have affairs and all sorts of stuff. 00:08:30.929 --> 00:08:35.119 And so, going back to, to where, where we started from, so Austin, 00:08:35.418 --> 00:08:38.512 what would you do differently, like, seeing this in hindsight and being 00:08:38.512 --> 00:08:44.562 like, now that you recognize I had sobriety before leaving, and then 00:08:44.982 --> 00:08:48.152 didn't have it when I was out, and then when you came back, you had sobriety. 00:08:48.182 --> 00:08:51.482 So what would you do different for you even though your 00:08:51.482 --> 00:08:52.712 schedule was, like, crazy? 00:08:53.762 --> 00:08:56.352 Speaker 2: Some of the things that I've thought of, of like what, what 00:08:56.352 --> 00:09:00.472 could work is creating some more space there hasn't been a necessarily 00:09:00.472 --> 00:09:05.282 been like a defined this is what the director does during the summer. 00:09:05.292 --> 00:09:09.562 It's kind of just been I'm gonna do my thing, and then when I, I'm done with this 00:09:09.562 --> 00:09:10.992 thing, I'm gonna hop into the next thing. 00:09:11.002 --> 00:09:15.782 And so just literally writing it out and just making it very, very clear of like, 00:09:15.792 --> 00:09:23.342 "Okay, this is my role as the director, and I'm going to have these times where I 00:09:23.882 --> 00:09:27.422 cannot be bothered," where it's just like from this time to this time, even if it's 00:09:27.432 --> 00:09:32.242 like 30 minutes or 20 minutes, I'm just gonna say, "Don't, don't reach out to me. 00:09:32.242 --> 00:09:32.872 Don't talk to me. 00:09:32.872 --> 00:09:36.342 Like I'm gonna be, um, in my space," 'cause I have like a separate 00:09:36.342 --> 00:09:37.612 living space on the property. 00:09:37.682 --> 00:09:37.902 Speaker: Yeah. 00:09:37.922 --> 00:09:38.982 Speaker 2: "I'm gonna be in there. 00:09:39.022 --> 00:09:40.462 Don't reach out for me for this time." 00:09:40.682 --> 00:09:45.822 And if I can just take even that, even 10 to 15 minutes at a time and just 00:09:45.842 --> 00:09:48.152 be like, "Okay, this is just for me. 00:09:48.152 --> 00:09:50.232 This is my time," whatever it may be. 00:09:50.232 -->

00:09:53.812 For me, I, you know, we've talked about on the podcast before, like I write, and 00:09:53.812 --> 00:09:55.412 I write these letters to God and stuff. 00:09:55.922 --> 00:09:59.542 And it's so freaking hot out there. 00:09:59.572 --> 00:10:03.172 I tried to write nine or 10 different times. 00:10:03.312 --> 00:10:04.832 Every time, my pen was dried out. 00:10:04.892 --> 00:10:05.752 It was insane. 00:10:05.782 --> 00:10:06.252 I needed… 00:10:06.402 --> 00:10:07.842 I think I just need to switch to pencils. 00:10:07.892 --> 00:10:08.272 I don't know. 00:10:08.622 --> 00:10:12.262 Just like to have that space where I can write, where I can take care of myself 00:10:12.292 --> 00:10:17.674 and keep this connection with God, like- I need to show it to you guys 'cause 00:10:17.674 --> 00:10:21.654 it's like my book, every entry for the past like three months has started 00:10:21.654 --> 00:10:25.144 with, "Dear God, I'm so sorry it's been so long since I've written to you." 00:10:25.144 --> 00:10:25.229 Mm. 00:10:25.229 --> 00:10:27.009 "I'm sorry that I've ignored you. 00:10:27.009 --> 00:10:30.709 I'm sorry that I haven't been connecting with you, um, because 00:10:30.709 --> 00:10:32.079 I haven't been putting it first." 00:10:32.139 --> 00:10:38.219 And creating that space, I think is, is what I need, is just a little 00:10:38.219 --> 00:10:42.019 bit of time where it's this is Austin's time during the workday of 00:10:42.019 --> 00:10:43.359 just like, "Please leave me alone." 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:44.289 'Cause it is. 00:10:44.339 --> 00:10:47.749 I can't walk across our lodge, which is not very big. 00:10:47.749 --> 00:10:51.379 I can't walk across the main floor without being stopped eight times- 00:10:51.529 --> 00:10:54.499 Right … by somebody asking, you know, "Can you get me a Band-Aid? 00:10:54.499 --> 00:10:55.869 Can you answer this for me? 00:10:55.869 --> 00:10:56.859 We're having this problem." 00:10:57.199 --> 00:10:58.089 Which I love. 00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:59.209 I love being that guy. 00:10:59.269 --> 00:11:02.869 I absolutely love it, but- You need to take care of yourself 00:11:02.869 --> 00:11:03.739 it becomes very, very taxing. 00:11:03.739 --> 00:11:03.929 Yeah. 00:11:03.999 --> 00:11:07.289 And if I can't take care of myself I've got no shot at 00:11:07.349 --> 00:11:08.709 being successful in recovery. 00:11:09.379 --> 00:11:10.839 At least that's, that's my opinion, 00:11:10.889 --> 00:11:13.079 Speaker 4: What we're really talking about is how do I build 00:11:13.079 --> 00:11:15.069 a, a recovery lifestyle, right? 00:11:15.179 --> 00:11:17.889 There's some permanent changes every single person is gonna have 00:11:17.889 --> 00:11:21.869 to make to their life if they're not living in recovery in order 00:11:21.869 --> 00:11:24.529 to, be recovered and get sober. 00:11:25.189 --> 00:11:29.829 It can happen kind of at a structural level, like my career, the systems in 00:11:29.829 --> 00:11:32.669 my life and then lower level changes. 00:11:32.669 --> 00:11:38.669 Like I have the time, I'm just not deciding to use it to take care of myself. 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:40.329 That's kinda how I would see. 00:11:40.329 --> 00:11:42.694 I don't know if you have better language for that, Chris, I found 00:11:42.694 --> 00:11:45.834 myself a lot of times in the same boat that Austin is describing. 00:11:46.014 --> 00:11:51.804 I think particularly for personalities like we Austin and I both run nonprofits. 00:11:51.804 --> 00:11:54.534 Like, there's a very specific personality type that ends up 00:11:54.534 --> 00:11:58.224 running a nonprofit, and so I, I kinda resonate with that same thing. 00:11:58.224 --> 00:11:59.704 I don't take time for myself. 00:11:59.810 --> 00:12:04.650 It's almost a strategy to disassociate, to give to other people so that I don't have 00:12:04.650 --> 00:12:06.280 to deal with what's going on inside of me. 00:12:06.490 --> 00:12:08.590 So making a structural change there has been big for me. 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:08.620 Yeah. 00:12:08.660 --> 00:12:13.589 I used to work 50 to 60-hour weeks a lot of time, consistently for years, 00:12:13.609 --> 00:12:15.169 and I finally crashed and burned. 00:12:15.169 --> 00:12:19.537 And now I'm like, "Hey, I'm not working more than 30 hours a week 00:12:19.537 --> 00:12:21.227 if I'm in school at the same time." 00:12:21.227 --> 00:12:21.597 Yeah. 00:12:21.597 --> 00:12:22.007 You know? 00:12:22.057 --> 00:12:25.017 And my school's only about 10 hours a week so we're doing okay. 00:12:25.017 --> 00:12:27.997 But I've had to make some of those structural shifts too, because you, 00:12:28.037 --> 00:12:30.467 you, you cannot live in recovery. 00:12:30.477 --> 00:12:34.787 You cannot become recovered if you don't make some lifestyle shifts that make 00:12:34.787 --> 00:12:36.287 it possible for you to meet your needs. 00:12:36.557 --> 00:12:36.867 Speaker: Totally. 00:12:36.947 --> 00:12:37.607 Speaker 4: You have to meet the needs. 00:12:37.617 --> 00:12:41.277 Speaker: Well, and I, and I think being aware of that is one of the 00:12:41.287 --> 00:12:43.557 biggest things to note, right? 00:12:43.857 --> 00:12:45.667 Because going into this, you… 00:12:45.727 --> 00:12:48.347 The last time you did this, you didn't have sobriety going into it. 00:12:48.507 --> 00:12:48.747 Speaker 2: No. 00:12:48.957 --> 00:12:52.487 Speaker: So, you learned something from this, these relapses. 00:12:52.567 --> 00:12:57.787 You're like, "Hey, I actually, now I, uh, I went into it going sober, and I'm, I… 00:12:57.787 --> 00:12:58.497 Everything's good. 00:12:58.807 --> 00:13:00.037 I don't need to take care of myself." 00:13:00.517 --> 00:13:02.907 But then you're like, "Oh, shit, apparently, I apparently do." 00:13:03.597 --> 00:13:05.327 So, so- Well, yeah … I have to do stuff. 00:13:05.357 --> 00:13:06.787 And so that's where the learning… 00:13:06.797 --> 00:13:09.099 We can always learn from

relapses. 00:13:09.149 --> 00:13:11.169 Almost acting out or slipping or whatever. 00:13:11.169 --> 00:13:13.909 We can learn from those experiences and be like, "God, what are you 00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:15.089 trying to teach me right now?" 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:15.479 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:13:15.509 --> 00:13:18.259 Speaker: Like, I've been at this thing for years and years, 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.219 and , just acted out again. 00:13:20.219 --> 00:13:22.179 So, like, what do I need to learn from this? 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.359 And like you're just saying, I just need to set up some boundaries to say, "Hey, 00:13:26.629 --> 00:13:28.579 don't bother me for 15, 20 minutes." 00:13:28.849 --> 00:13:31.769 I just need that time for me, because you know how important it 00:13:31.769 --> 00:13:34.279 is for you to show up for yourself. 00:13:34.499 --> 00:13:34.609 Mm-hmm. 00:13:34.609 --> 00:13:35.139 Because when you… 00:13:35.149 --> 00:13:36.379 It's like when you're flying, right? 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:39.249 They're like, "Put your own mask on first so that you can then help others." 00:13:39.839 --> 00:13:42.979 You gotta do the same thing when you're doing that for all those kids. 00:13:43.049 --> 00:13:47.199 You know going into it next year, "Hey, I gotta be more vigilant in making sure 00:13:47.199 --> 00:13:51.359 that I have boundaries in place, and I gotta honor those boundaries for myself 00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:53.239 so that I can show up for myself." 00:13:53.259 --> 00:13:56.309 'Cause look how well you show up for these, these youth right now. 00:13:57.239 --> 00:14:00.129 The man that you can show up for them even when you're taking care of 00:14:00.129 --> 00:14:02.169 yourself instead of, like, going… 00:14:02.179 --> 00:14:05.769 It, maybe there's, um, I guarantee there was some shame there after acting 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:09.269 out and having seven, eight months of sobriety, and then you're going into it, 00:14:09.269 --> 00:14:12.189 and then you're acting out, and you're like, "Something is still wrong with me." 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:15.089 No, you just acted out. 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:16.539 Doesn't mean anything's wrong with you. 00:14:16.859 --> 00:14:16.879 Yeah. 00:14:16.929 --> 00:14:19.199 And you can learn from it and be like, "I know what I need 00:14:19.199 --> 00:14:20.579 to do next time this comes up." 00:14:21.851 --> 00:14:24.861 Speaker 2: It's been really cool to, to have a mind shift of looking at 00:14:24.861 --> 00:14:26.664 relapses as it's just information. 00:14:26.834 --> 00:14:29.774 It's just information of, okay, you know, I messed up. 00:14:29.784 --> 00:14:31.264 What, what led to that? 00:14:31.264 --> 00:14:34.424 What information can I gather from this to do better the next time? 00:14:34.804 --> 00:14:39.534 But also, I've found even, like, when I went in to the summer 00:14:39.534 --> 00:14:42.314 and everything, I was like, "Oh, before I go to bed, I'm gonna, you 00:14:42.314 --> 00:14:43.424 know, take the time to do this." 00:14:43.424 --> 00:14:45.464 But every night I was so exhausted. 00:14:45.954 --> 00:14:49.104 Like, literally, in my brain, I would just think, "I could read my book. 00:14:49.144 --> 00:14:49.804 I could write. 00:14:49.854 --> 00:14:51.374 I could do this," every night. 00:14:51.384 --> 00:14:52.714 It was just, I just wanna numb out. 00:14:52.754 --> 00:14:53.864 Like, literally, that was the thought. 00:14:53.864 --> 00:14:57.234 Like, I just- Yeah … I wanna lay in bed and watch YouTube videos 00:14:57.234 --> 00:15:00.414 for, like- Mm … three hours or, you know, whatever because- 00:15:00.424 --> 00:15:01.704 Speaker: Did you say, "I deserve this"? 00:15:01.804 --> 00:15:02.784 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all the time. 00:15:02.784 --> 00:15:03.604 I'd be like, "I deserve this. 00:15:03.604 --> 00:15:04.174 I worked so hard." 00:15:04.184 --> 00:15:04.204 Yeah. 00:15:04.204 --> 00:15:04.724 And I did. 00:15:04.724 --> 00:15:05.974 I worked so hard. 00:15:06.264 --> 00:15:06.504 Yeah. 00:15:06.504 --> 00:15:09.144 But, nothing ever good came from it, you know? 00:15:09.144 --> 00:15:12.664 I would, I would either stay up till 3:00 in the morning and then be up 00:15:12.664 --> 00:15:15.114 at 6:00 and crash and burn so hard. 00:15:15.124 --> 00:15:18.924 But it was literally that thought of I just wanna check 00:15:18.934 --> 00:15:20.704 out for the next little bit. 00:15:20.834 --> 00:15:26.224 Which I think, at times, in a controlled way, is okay to 00:15:26.224 --> 00:15:27.304 check out every now and then. 00:15:27.314 --> 00:15:30.424 Not, not, not in the sense of relapsing, but, like, you know, just to give 00:15:30.424 --> 00:15:31.914 your brain a break and just let go. 00:15:32.264 --> 00:15:36.614 But, like you, Chris, I know, like, with TikTok and those things, like you've 00:15:36.614 --> 00:15:39.644 got, screen timers and things where it's like, "Okay, like, time to take a break." 00:15:39.654 --> 00:15:39.684 Yep. 00:15:39.694 --> 00:15:42.784 Like, that's, that's important to have, where it's like, "Okay, I am gonna 00:15:42.784 --> 00:15:45.204 check out," but I know I have this safeguard that's gonna, like, bring 00:15:45.204 --> 00:15:47.234 me back in and be like, "All right- Totally … it's been five minutes. 00:15:47.244 --> 00:15:48.074 It's been 10 minutes. 00:15:48.474 --> 00:15:52.204 Let's, let's hop back into this," 'cause- Mm … it sucks you in so fast. 00:15:52.214 --> 00:15:54.844 And the next thing you know, it's like, oh my gosh, it is 3:00 in the morning. 00:15:54.884 --> 00:15:56.094 Like I, I need to go to bed. 00:15:56.824 --> 00:15:59.624 Speaker: Well, I think when you said, "I deserve it," or when I asked you, 00:15:59.644 --> 00:16:02.474 you know, did you say, "I deserve this," so- Yeah … changing that, 00:16:02.484 --> 00:16:05.964 those words and saying, "I deserve to fight for my own heart right now." 00:16:05.964 -->

00:16:06.504 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:16:07.504 --> 00:16:10.494 Speaker: Looking at it that way, 'cause then it also takes away the shame 00:16:10.494 --> 00:16:12.214 to be like, "I don't wanna numb out. 00:16:12.394 --> 00:16:13.414 I wanna fight for my own heart." 00:16:13.434 --> 00:16:14.374 What does that look like? 00:16:14.494 --> 00:16:15.374 And maybe it's gonna be different. 00:16:15.384 --> 00:16:16.184 Maybe it's like, you know what? 00:16:16.224 --> 00:16:20.504 I just need some downtime where I don't have to think about everybody else, and 00:16:20.504 --> 00:16:25.764 I can, I can do that by just checking out on YouTube, if it's safe for you. 00:16:25.854 --> 00:16:26.194 Speaker 2: Right. 00:16:26.194 --> 00:16:26.264 Speaker: Right? 00:16:26.264 --> 00:16:26.544 Right. 00:16:26.544 --> 00:16:29.084 'Cause if you know it's not safe, then you're like, "I know it's not safe for 00:16:29.084 --> 00:16:30.394 me, so that's not where I'm gonna go." 00:16:30.474 --> 00:16:30.814 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 00:16:31.014 --> 00:16:32.094 Speaker: But it's like I… 00:16:32.154 --> 00:16:35.114 Looking at it as I deserve to fight for my own heart. 00:16:35.744 --> 00:16:37.854 Speaker 4: Some of the most restorative stuff I've done in my 00:16:37.854 --> 00:16:40.964 life actually requires a high level of discipline, and that's what, 00:16:40.964 --> 00:16:42.129 something that's been a shift for me. 00:16:42.130 --> 00:16:46.193 It's not large amounts of dopamine in very quick amounts of time, right? 00:16:46.193 --> 00:16:46.403 Right. 00:16:46.443 --> 00:16:50.723 It's not scrolling, it's not porn, it's not, disassociating and fantasizing. 00:16:51.213 --> 00:16:52.283 It's none of those things. 00:16:52.673 --> 00:16:53.481 Uh, I think that- But rest is 00:16:53.481 --> 00:16:53.933 Speaker: a need 00:16:54.143 --> 00:16:55.143 Speaker 4: Yes, rest is a need. 00:16:55.143 --> 00:16:55.343 Right? 00:16:55.343 --> 00:16:55.623 Right. 00:16:55.623 --> 00:16:58.593 So, so you have to find it in a way, and sometimes that requires discipline. 00:16:58.593 --> 00:17:03.313 Sometimes it's like, I know I actually need to go to bed right now, and it feels 00:17:03.313 --> 00:17:07.453 more restful, or I should say it feels more easy to just scroll for two more 00:17:07.453 --> 00:17:11.683 hours, but I'm gonna turn my phone off and I'm gonna go to bed because that's 00:17:11.703 --> 00:17:12.813 meeting- Yeah … the need that I have. 00:17:13.213 --> 00:17:16.093 I think that kinda lends itself to a larger conversation about body. 00:17:16.103 --> 00:17:19.973 Something that happens really, and I've just literally the last two months 00:17:19.993 --> 00:17:23.813 realized this, and I've spent so much time editing the Unashamed Unafraid 00:17:23.823 --> 00:17:24.963 guidebook, it's getting drilled into me. 00:17:26.613 --> 00:17:26.773 You 00:17:26.773 --> 00:17:27.613 Speaker: may have gone through it a couple 00:17:27.613 --> 00:17:27.653 Sam: times. 00:17:27.653 --> 00:17:27.973 Yeah. 00:17:28.333 --> 00:17:31.703 But the first thing that happens when you experience shame is you start to 00:17:31.703 --> 00:17:33.263 become disassociated from your body. 00:17:33.903 --> 00:17:35.873 The first thing that happens when you numb is you start to become 00:17:35.873 --> 00:17:37.193 disassociated from your body. 00:17:37.453 --> 00:17:38.482 And If it wasn't safe 00:17:38.502 --> 00:17:39.092 Speaker 4: to 00:17:39.122 --> 00:17:42.332 Sam: acknowledge and honor your needs growing up, you've probably 00:17:42.332 --> 00:17:45.642 become pretty disassociated from the things that your body is telling you. 00:17:45.682 --> 00:17:48.252 Like, our body tells us amazing things. 00:17:48.292 --> 00:17:53.102 I didn't realize until recently that that feeling I get in my chest- 00:17:54.062 --> 00:17:54.372 Speaker: Hmm 00:17:54.442 --> 00:17:59.652 … Speaker 4: when I'm starting to get stressed out, and it, it's always 00:17:59.652 --> 00:18:04.182 the precursor to acting out, usually means there's too much stimulus in my 00:18:04.182 --> 00:18:08.792 environment and I have already ignored a few signals that are telling me I 00:18:08.792 --> 00:18:11.212 need to take a break and breathe or eat. 00:18:11.622 --> 00:18:13.512 It's usually- Hmm … a basic food, water- 00:18:13.572 --> 00:18:13.672 Speaker: Yeah 00:18:13.812 --> 00:18:14.082 … Speaker 4: right? 00:18:14.502 --> 00:18:17.502 I had no idea that that was the case. 00:18:17.682 --> 00:18:18.962 It like blew my mind. 00:18:18.962 --> 00:18:22.042 I, I was just- … sitting there like editing a podcast 00:18:22.052 --> 00:18:23.052 one day and it was like, bing. 00:18:23.982 --> 00:18:24.692 Oh my gosh. 00:18:25.082 --> 00:18:28.342 Dude, my body's telling me it's time to take a break. 00:18:28.352 --> 00:18:29.532 It's time to go meet a need. 00:18:30.112 --> 00:18:32.842 And that, that, that whole conversation about meeting needs and being 00:18:32.842 --> 00:18:36.422 self-aware, I think has really, started to hit home for me now. 00:18:36.462 --> 00:18:39.692 It, before I understood it at a logical level, but it was flying right 00:18:39.692 --> 00:18:40.822 over- Right … my head, you know? 00:18:40.822 --> 00:18:43.822 In fact, I think, Chris, you and I did some coaching and you were talking about 00:18:43.822 --> 00:18:46.612 meeting needs, and I was not there yet. 00:18:46.622 --> 00:18:47.122 I was like, "What?" 00:18:48.268 --> 00:18:49.058 Yeah, I know. 00:18:49.058 --> 00:18:49.708 That's awesome. 00:18:49.728 --> 00:18:49.878 This is… 00:18:49.988 --> 00:18:50.978 I had some breakthroughs logically- Right? 00:18:50.978 --> 00:18:51.658 And logically 00:18:51.658 --> 00:18:52.678 Speaker: in your head you're like, "Totally 00:18:52.728 --> 00:18:54.348 Sam: get it" … but you, you kept saying like, "Hey, do this." 00:18:54.358 --> 00:18:56.738 Like, you know, you were teaching me some really powerful concepts, and

00:18:56.738 --> 00:19:00.698 I wasn't doing them 'cause I, I just genuinely was like, "I don't get it." 00:19:01.378 --> 00:19:05.818 And I didn't see all the time my body was sending me these signals all the time. 00:19:05.858 --> 00:19:06.798 "Hey, dude, you're thirsty. 00:19:06.808 --> 00:19:07.598 Just drink water. 00:19:07.608 --> 00:19:08.268 You're tired. 00:19:08.268 --> 00:19:09.328 It's time to go to bed. 00:19:09.848 --> 00:19:11.738 Hey, you're exhausted. 00:19:11.748 --> 00:19:15.567 It's not time to go ask your wife what she needs." 00:19:16.116 --> 00:19:17.256 There's another time for that. 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.859 I think every man who has ever struggled with any addiction has experienced 00:19:21.859 --> 00:19:23.339 something very similar to that. 00:19:23.899 --> 00:19:25.549 I, I think it's impossible not to. 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.239 That's just the process of what happens. 00:19:27.439 --> 00:19:29.909 Speaker 3: Well, I think this specific addiction too- 00:19:29.939 --> 00:19:30.289 Speaker 4: Yeah 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.289 … Speaker 3: is an unhealthy relationship with your body. 00:19:33.369 --> 00:19:34.189 Speaker 4: Ah, for sure. 00:19:34.769 --> 00:19:39.679 Speaker 3: And for me, fitness was a huge part of reestablishing- Mm … a 00:19:39.689 --> 00:19:41.689 healthy relationship with my body. 00:19:41.689 --> 00:19:41.939 Totally. 00:19:42.239 --> 00:19:45.029 And recognizing this kind of stuff as well is like… 00:19:45.639 --> 00:19:48.059 It's, it's beautiful when you realize, like 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.429 All the different things that, that has been put into our system, into 00:19:54.429 --> 00:19:56.706 this temple to be able to Help. 00:19:57.186 --> 00:19:59.136 Speaker 4: For anyone who's not familiar with your story, Joshua, 00:19:59.246 --> 00:20:01.936 just give them a quick rundown of, like, where you were at your highest 00:20:01.936 --> 00:20:03.476 weight and, what things were like. 00:20:03.516 --> 00:20:04.936 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've lost, like, 80 pounds. 00:20:05.316 --> 00:20:06.356 I was really depressed. 00:20:06.356 --> 00:20:06.656 Speaker 4: What? 00:20:06.656 --> 00:20:07.846 Speaker: I didn't know you lost 80 pounds. 00:20:07.856 --> 00:20:07.956 How 00:20:07.956 --> 00:20:08.456 Speaker 4: did I not know that? 00:20:08.456 --> 00:20:08.546 Yeah, Josh was, 00:20:08.546 --> 00:20:09.486 Speaker 3: like, severely obese. 00:20:09.486 --> 00:20:09.816 I'll have to show you a picture. 00:20:09.816 --> 00:20:10.986 I was, I was, uh, Y- 00:20:12.316 --> 00:20:13.756 Speaker 4: in your own words, you said that. 00:20:13.766 --> 00:20:14.836 Speaker 3: I was, I was not- Was he obese? 00:20:15.316 --> 00:20:15.766 Speaker 4: Severely 00:20:15.766 --> 00:20:15.786 Speaker 3: obese. 00:20:15.786 --> 00:20:16.486 I was, yeah. 00:20:16.706 --> 00:20:18.586 There was a time when I would watch UFC fights- These whole 00:20:18.586 --> 00:20:20.986 Speaker: things are such shit because it says that I'm obese. 00:20:21.886 --> 00:20:22.266 It does. 00:20:22.276 --> 00:20:22.306 Right. 00:20:22.326 --> 00:20:22.486 I'm 00:20:22.486 --> 00:20:22.696 Speaker 3: like, 00:20:25.836 --> 00:20:25.996 Speaker: "What are you talking about?" 00:20:25.996 --> 00:20:26.246 Speaker 3: You're the most jacked guy I've ever met. 00:20:26.246 --> 00:20:26.296 I'm, like, pretty sure I'm 00:20:26.296 --> 00:20:26.806 Speaker: not obese. 00:20:27.346 --> 00:20:27.756 Speaker 3: Well, that was… 00:20:27.876 --> 00:20:31.616 I would watch UFC fights and see that the, the heavyweights, I weighed more 00:20:31.616 --> 00:20:33.626 than them, and I did not look strong. 00:20:33.636 --> 00:20:33.656 Yeah. 00:20:33.656 --> 00:20:36.236 And I was like, "Ooh, something needs to change here." 00:20:36.706 --> 00:20:39.456 But yeah, I was just really depressed, and, I hated myself. 00:20:39.456 --> 00:20:40.776 I hated everything about myself. 00:20:41.386 --> 00:20:45.186 And,, I ended up in a mental health clinic for a little while, and when 00:20:45.186 --> 00:20:52.266 I got out, I, I wanted to get off of my,, SSRIs, and I, I knew that 00:20:52.396 --> 00:20:57.758 fitness was Like, the most tried and true way to, help your mental health 00:20:58.048 --> 00:21:00.168 more than twice as effective as SSRIs. 00:21:00.198 --> 00:21:03.948 And so I started working out, and I was able to, like, see progress and see 00:21:03.948 --> 00:21:08.427 myself get stronger and realize that, there was one thing I had control over in 00:21:08.427 --> 00:21:10.357 my life- Yeah … and it was my health. 00:21:10.447 --> 00:21:14.676 And then it helped me to learn that it's possible to improve, 00:21:14.786 --> 00:21:15.376 Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that. 00:21:15.436 --> 00:21:19.116 Speaker 3: And it was, it was a major part of my recovery, I think it is, 00:21:19.216 --> 00:21:20.706 I mean, often for lots of people. 00:21:20.886 --> 00:21:24.736 Speaker 4: I think countless men have seen the results in their own behavior 00:21:24.756 --> 00:21:28.436 and recovery as they've started developing a better relationship 00:21:28.436 --> 00:21:31.986 with their body and meeting the needs of their body physically. 00:21:32.036 --> 00:21:32.456 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:21:32.466 --> 00:21:35.866 That's what you said, too, like, a, a low effort, high reward, right? 00:21:35.866 --> 00:21:36.076 Yeah. 00:21:36.086 --> 00:21:39.276 You get that dopamine burst and you fall below the baseline afterwards. 00:21:39.276 --> 00:21:40.856 You come back down, you don't settle down. 00:21:41.156 --> 00:21:43.946 125 milligrams per deciliter is the baseline- 00:21:44.056 --> 00:21:44.356 Speaker 5: Okay 00:21:44.386 --> 00:21:44.816 Speaker 3: for dopamine. 00:21:45.106 --> 00:21:49.636 But when you use drugs or you use pornography, you get a huge spike and 00:21:49.636 --> 00:21:51.636 you, your baseline is lower than that. 00:21:51.636 --> 00:21:51.696 Mm. 00:21:51.696 -->

00:21:56.206 And that keeps going down until you can't produce it without some sort 00:21:56.206 --> 00:21:58.266 of stimulant outside of your body. 00:21:58.796 --> 00:22:01.136 And you have to do something opposite of that, which is what 00:22:01.136 --> 00:22:02.116 you were talking about earlier. 00:22:02.116 --> 00:22:07.226 You have to do something that takes some effort, that has lasting rewards. 00:22:07.266 --> 00:22:07.626 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:22:07.736 --> 00:22:09.636 Speaker 3: It's not a low effort, high reward. 00:22:09.636 --> 00:22:12.726 You need high effort, lasting reward. 00:22:12.776 --> 00:22:15.356 Speaker 4: I'm just starting to realize that, that discipline is 00:22:15.356 --> 00:22:16.466 always gonna be a part of life. 00:22:16.526 --> 00:22:16.726 Yeah. 00:22:16.736 --> 00:22:17.936 You can't live life without discipline. 00:22:18.536 --> 00:22:22.626 But life with discipline feels much more restful than a life without discipline. 00:22:22.646 --> 00:22:23.116 Speaker 3: That's so 00:22:23.736 --> 00:22:23.786 Speaker 4: crazy. 00:22:23.786 --> 00:22:25.496 That's also- But that's true … which is such a crazy paradox. 00:22:25.496 --> 00:22:27.736 Speaker: Well, 'cause I think, I think you go into shame when you're not disciplined. 00:22:27.736 --> 00:22:28.236 Totally. 00:22:28.316 --> 00:22:29.706 You, like, totally start shaming yourself. 00:22:29.706 --> 00:22:29.776 Totally. 00:22:29.926 --> 00:22:33.556 And be like, "I shoulda done this, and I shoulda done that, and I wish I did 00:22:33.556 --> 00:22:36.486 this," and, you know, all the things, and you're just going right into shame. 00:22:36.536 --> 00:22:36.756 Yeah. 00:22:36.776 --> 00:22:37.926 And that can be exhausting. 00:22:38.056 --> 00:22:38.206 Yeah. 00:22:38.206 --> 00:22:41.656 I'm sure all our listeners out there, you get exhausted from all 00:22:41.656 --> 00:22:42.856 the freaking shame that you feel. 00:22:42.906 --> 00:22:43.196 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:22:45.436 --> 00:22:46.886 All right, guys, we wanna hear from you. 00:22:46.886 --> 00:22:47.346 Let us know. 00:22:47.396 --> 00:22:49.416 Send us an email, Sam, Chris at UnashamedUnafraid@… 00:22:52.038 --> 00:22:53.678 What do you need to do to start taking care of yourself? 00:22:53.678 --> 00:22:55.808 What are the needs in your life that are not being met? 00:22:55.938 --> 00:22:58.428 Where do you need to have more discipline in your life? 00:22:58.468 --> 00:23:02.108 Not from a shame standpoint, not to earn it, but just to have more discipline 00:23:02.128 --> 00:23:05.368 to meet the basic needs so that you can take the next step in recovery. 00:23:05.368 --> 00:23:06.198 We wanna hear from you. 00:23:06.558 --> 00:23:07.428 Send us an email. 00:23:08.058 --> 00:23:10.958 We'd love to get your feedback and just connect with you as you guys are- 00:23:10.958 --> 00:23:12.308 Speaker: I wa- I wanna add a question. 00:23:12.428 --> 00:23:12.708 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:23:13.558 --> 00:23:14.428 Speaker: What have you… 00:23:14.447 --> 00:23:16.035 learned from the last time you acted out? 00:23:16.195 --> 00:23:16.755 Yeah. 00:23:17.125 --> 00:23:17.465 ' Speaker 4: Cause there's 00:23:17.465 --> 00:23:17.995 Speaker: always an unmet 00:23:18.245 --> 00:23:18.605 Speaker 4: need. 00:23:18.605 --> 00:23:21.125 Speaker: So, so what, what was it that you learned from the last time you acted out? 00:23:21.175 --> 00:23:21.455 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:23:21.465 --> 00:23:22.115 Speaker: Shoot us an email. 00:23:22.295 --> 00:23:22.595 Speaker 4: Yeah. 00:23:22.915 --> 00:23:25.575 I will end by telling you what I learned from the last time I acted out. 00:23:25.905 --> 00:23:27.705 I acted out, Friday actually. 00:23:27.785 --> 00:23:33.305 I was at a family reunion, and what I found is, this is my wife's family. 00:23:34.025 --> 00:23:37.225 We are trying to figure out a lot of things with my wife's family right now. 00:23:37.515 --> 00:23:43.985 It can be difficult, , to be my authentic self in those settings. 00:23:44.235 --> 00:23:48.545 And, I didn't have a plan going into that weekend to know how I was 00:23:48.545 --> 00:23:52.244 gonna take breaks and honor my needs as I went into the family reunion. 00:23:52.284 --> 00:23:53.484 I know this is an issue. 00:23:53.584 --> 00:23:57.684 I know I don't feel safe a lot of the times when I'm around them, right? 00:23:57.734 --> 00:23:57.884 Yeah. 00:23:57.884 --> 00:23:58.944 And so I had no plan. 00:23:58.944 --> 00:23:59.484 I just went in. 00:23:59.494 --> 00:24:00.424 So there you go.. 00:24:00.474 --> 00:24:01.334 Time to make a plan. 00:24:01.614 --> 00:24:02.594 . Speaker: We should do a podcast 00:24:02.747 --> 00:24:03.987 Speaker 4: It does thanks for watching. 00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:05.810 Find us on social media, @UnashamedUnafraid. 00:24:06.800 --> 00:24:08.520 Get access to the bonus content. 00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:10.960 Become an outsider on unashamedunafraid.com. 00:24:11.340 --> 00:24:14.720 Remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel, and if this was helpful 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.910 to you, it'll probably be helpful to someone else, so take some time 00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:19.170 right now and share it with a friend. 00:24:19.490 --> 00:24:23.094 Thanks again for watching, and until next time, continue to live unashamed