Shadows of Obsession: True Stories of Stalking and the Fight for Justice in the Digital Age.의 전체 녹취록

almost grown up at the Chang House, went 76 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:02.519 on to become Shawn's college roommate. 77 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:05.360 She's just so nice and she's such a close friend 78 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.360 of my brothers, which. 79 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.079 Is why no one was too concerned when Scott and 80 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.399 Penny spent a lot of time together, although Penny was 81 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:18.199 only fifteen and Scott was twenty one. Did your parents 82 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.279 sink anything of it that they were spending a lot 83 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:20.959 of time together? 84 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:24.040 No? Why would they think a twenty one year old 85 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:26.120 boy friend of my brother be a threat to my 86 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:27.160 fifteen year old sister. 87 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.759 But the family didn't realize how serious Scott's feelings were. 88 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:34.199 Penny was pretty important to him. 89 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.240 Yeah, and I think you see that in the journals 90 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:41.399 where Penny, at least for that summer, was his life. 91 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:45.680 Scottstruthers began a journal later that year that described his 92 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.040 relationship with Penny. 93 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.519 In his journal, you see him talking about this girl, 94 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.240 is this wonderful thing? And the object of his affection. 95 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.079 The times that I had spent with Penny this summer, 96 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.319 when things were going good and she was nice to me, 97 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:02.000 was like a dream come true. The weather was beautiful, 98 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:04.839 so was she, and I was at times happier than 99 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:06.120 I had ever been in my life. 100 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.240 There was only one problem. Penny didn't feel the same way. 101 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:13.600 It seems like he definitely read too much into it 102 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:18.399 and really thought that, you know, she liked him, and 103 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:19.240 I just don't think that. 104 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.879 Was the case. When the summer ended and Penny began 105 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:29.399 ignoring Scott, the Chang family phone began ringing off the 106 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:31.720 hook for how many phone calls. 107 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:33.600 A year? 108 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:37.720 Night midnight? 109 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.360 It made we disconnected the phone. 110 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.079 Yeah, but things got worse. 111 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:48.439 He tried to burn down the garage. He put glue 112 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:53.560 my parents' gas tank. He threw like missling objects through 113 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.360 the window, like little rocks. 114 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:01.079 They used to show these windows. Was brought the frontal one, 115 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.160 the biggest fronto was broken. 116 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:11.519 Days later, the police arrested Scott Struthers. Shaker Heights Police 117 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.319 Chief Walter you Grinnick. Would you describe Scott Struthers as 118 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:15.920 a stalker? 119 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.079 Yes, Yes, he was following her. 120 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:21.639 He was keeping an eye on her. 121 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:25.759 She seemed like a shy, kind young boy. 122 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:27.399 Well, it's not so much. 123 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:29.560 Were you worried that Scott would ever hurt her? 124 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.079 I was a little, but it wasn't Overwhelmwolming. 125 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.800 Did she seem scared of him at all? She didn't. 126 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:38.079 She didn't. She was fifteen. 127 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:43.480 Struthers was charged with telephone harassment and misdemeanor arson, but 128 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.600 right before sentencing, he voluntarily admitted himself to this hospital 129 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.639 for observation. Do you think Scott Struthers went to the 130 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.360 Cleveland clinic because he really wanted help. 131 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.800 No, I think it was a legal tactic to show 132 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.800 the court, you know, I'm sorry, and I'm taking steps 133 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:04.279 to correct my behavior, and I'm sick and I'm getting help. 134 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:08.560 Whatever his motive, Struthers stayed here for five weeks. He 135 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.600 was released on Thanksgiving Day nineteen ninety eight after doctors 136 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:16.120 determined he was no longer a threat, even though the 137 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:19.160 journal that Struthers began as part of his therapy here 138 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:21.680 contained some very threatening entries. 139 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:27.959 It's scary, you know, it's just frightening because he lays 140 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:30.319 out what he's going to do, and you see this progression, 141 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.639 this evolution in his mind of her as this sweet 142 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.759 little girl to this evil object that has to be 143 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.000 made to pay. 144 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:45.039 The tone of Scott's writing becomes increasingly menacing. 145 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:47.639 I think that my actions were a way to force 146 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.360 myself to be an important part of her life, even 147 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:52.759 though it was in a negative way. I once thought, 148 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.279 forget about me, bitch, I will make you remember me forever. 149 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:01.279 And then the one that just still to this day 150 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:04.879 can't get over how cool and

superior will you look 151 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:10.799 when I blow your brains out into the ground. He's 152 00:09:10.840 --> 00:09:14.679 at the Cleveland Clinic in their psychiatric word writing, how 153 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.799 cool will you look when I walk up and blow 154 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.159 your brains out? And five months later, in broad daylight, 155 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.720 across the street from the police station, that's exactly what 156 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:23.080 he did. 157 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.639 Three and a half months after being released from the 158 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:38.799 Cleveland Clinic, at seven point thirty on a cold March morning, 159 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.159 Scott Struthers stalked Penny Chang one more time as she 160 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:50.120 walked to school. He approached her from behind and shot 161 00:09:50.159 --> 00:10:01.879 her three times in the back of the head. Penny 162 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.759 was rushed to the emergency room, but it was too late. 163 00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.080 They bring me to to see the s to see Penny. 164 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:14.360 I saw Penny sleep on the bed and if. 165 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:23.399 I read the floor, ah, I know what happens. 166 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.320 I checked her Puss, I found nothing. 167 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:32.720 My mom said Scott shot Penny. And I was like, 168 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:38.200 is she okay? And my mom was just like, no, 169 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:43.200 she's not okay. Oh my gosh. Those words were sh 170 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:44.399 she's not okay? 171 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:51.279 Well, how bad off is she? So she's dead? 172 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:55.799 This had been a best friend. Who is your reaction 173 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:56.120 to that? 174 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:57.679 Oh? 175 00:10:57.759 --> 00:10:58.039 Shock? 176 00:10:58.279 --> 00:10:58.679 Of course? 177 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:02.320 That is all this worldshocking, just unbelievable. 178 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.159 Six months after the shooting, Scott's brothers pled guilty to murder. 179 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.159 He's now serving a sentence of twenty three years to life. 180 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.480 I mean, I'm glad that he's not going to see 181 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:17.000 like the sun come up really and I'm gonna make 182 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:17.639 sure of that too. 183 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:20.440 It just keeps the eyes. 184 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.679 But for the Chang family, Scott isn't the only guilty party. 185 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:27.840 Do you blame someone for Penny's death? 186 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.360 The first of all ran, of course, Scottstrather. The second 187 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:36.039 person is the person took here Scott's Strather. 188 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:40.240 For the entire five months prior to Penny's death, Scott's 189 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:44.360 brothers was

receiving psychiatric care. First as a patient here 190 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:47.120 at the Cleveland Clinic and then when he was released 191 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:51.600 from a private therapist. The Changs believed these professionals could 192 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.559 and should have stopped brothers from killing their daughter. They're 193 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.679 suing them for twenty million dollars. 194 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.320 I feel they made so much. 195 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.679 Me think the case is pursued as a wrongful death case. 196 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:07.840 Paul Kaufman is the Chang's attorney. What do you see 197 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:10.840 as the biggest failing on the part of Cleveland Clinic. 198 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:14.600 I think their biggest failing was in discharging him when 199 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.519 they did. I mean, it's our position he still needed 200 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:19.240 to be hospitalized. 201 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:23.080 Everyone agrees that when Struthers first arrived at the Cleveland 202 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.679 Clinic after stalking Penny and facing charges of harassment, he 203 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:32.440 was a severely troubled young man. Do you remember meeting Scott, Yes, 204 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:36.080 I do, forensic psychiatrist Kathleen Quinn. 205 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.919 So in many ways he looked quite ordinary, although the 206 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.200 concerns were extraordinary about him. What do you mean well 207 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.159 that there was an issue of dangerousness? 208 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.399 Doctor Quinn says Struthers exhibited a number of behaviors which 209 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.559 made him a significant risk for violence, including severe anger, 210 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:57.440 homicidal thoughts and a desire to obtain a gun. 211 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:02.440 That resulted in an immediate Hut hospitalization and there being 212 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:04.759 a commitment paper a drawn up. 213 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.000 What's more, Struthers made no secret of his desire to 214 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:13.679 kill Penny in his journal. But Struthers appeared to improve, 215 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.840 and after just five weeks of treatment, he was discharged, 216 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.000 even though hospital record show doctors still had some concerns. 217 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.480 Two days before he was discharged. They didn't believe him, 218 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:29.919 and they doubted his credibility, and he was showing no 219 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.679 remorse and he was having no emotional reaction. I don't 220 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:38.000 see how anybody could think that this young man was 221 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.200 ready to be discharged. 222 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.639 I've had some concerns about his veracity. 223 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.200 George Tessar was the attending psychiatrists who authorized Struther's release. 224 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:52.159 They weren't consistent concerns from day to day, and by 225 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.759 the end of the evaluation, I was quite convinced that 226 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.519 he was telling us the truth as he felt it. 227 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.799 Then in exclude, he was a interview with forty eight hours. 228 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.799 Doctor Tesser says he released Ruthers only after seeing great 229 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.360 improvement in his patients. 230 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.360 He no longer made those statements about wanting to kill 231 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:15.879 her or feeling any compulsion to kill her. He was feeling. 232 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:19.799 Better, According to Tessar, the homicidal thoughts expressed in Scott's 233 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:23.639 journal we're all in the past tense. At one point 234 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:27.320 in his journal, he writes, basically, I was thinking, how 235 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:31.080 cool and superior will you look, bitch when I blow 236 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.919 your brains out into the ground. You can just get 237 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:38.840 rid of those feelings. A week or two later, well. 238 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:41.159 I think, yeah, that's possible. 239 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:45.240 He was not conveying the same kind of impression at 240 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:46.679 the end of this hospitalization. 241 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:52.200 This man's assessment at discharge was correct. It was correct 242 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.679 because he didn't do anything when he was discharged. 243 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.960 Attorney Jim Malone is defending the Cleveland Clinic. 244 00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:01.240 Nothing violent took place for three and a half months. 245 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.360 He says, expecting psychiatrists to predict violence that far into 246 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.159 the future is expecting too much. 247 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:15.039 The Cleveland Clinic has every medical device to benefit humankind. 248 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.799 The one thing they don't have is a crystal ball 249 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:18.440 that works. 250 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.320 Our clinical experience suggests that we're pretty good at it 251 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:28.960 at predicting violence in the short term. Twenty four forty 252 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:35.240 eight seventy two hours after an evaluation beyond that, nobody's 253 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:37.600 very good at predicting violence. 254 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:41.159 If the Cleveland Clinic couldn't predict that Scott Struthers would 255 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:44.039 become a killer, what about the private therapist who picked 256 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.960 up his case and saw him regularly right up until 257 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.600 he bought a gun to kill Penny? Scott Struthers met

258 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.320 with Rainacrell regularly for three and a half months. On 259 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.480 March twelfth, nineteen ninety nine, Struthers bought a gun, took 260 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:06.200 it to this shooting range and practice firing it. Although 261 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.519 he had seen Krell two days earlier, she saw no 262 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:14.440 sign of his escalating anger. How did RAINA. Krell not 263 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:15.600 see that? 264 00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.399 I think you'd have to ask her. 265 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.679 Kroll refused to talk with forty eight hours, but she 266 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.840 told the courts did he ever. 267 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.240 Make any threats of any kind? 268 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:25.759 No? 269 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.000 Did he ever have any evidence of recent homicidal ideation? 270 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:31.000 No? 271 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.759 Did he ever show any evidence of present dangerousness. 272 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:35.080 No. 273 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:41.320 He had talked about comments of feeling regret, feeling more 274 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:42.759 personally responsible. 275 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.360 He's demonstrated an interest in work. 276 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.120 From your perspective, is this positive negative? 277 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:50.200 What? 278 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:52.480 I viewed it as positive? 279 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.919 I think she looked at him as sort of the 280 00:16:55.039 --> 00:17:00.600 jilted boyfriend depression type of situation and never really got 281 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:01.679 below the surface. 282 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:04.039 Isn't it possible that he was such a good actor 283 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:05.640 he really fooled all the doctors. 284 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.559 Sure, it's possible, But the problem with that is that 285 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:17.240 these doctors are the experts. 286 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:20.400 With millions of dollars and their reputations at stake. Scott's 287 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.839 Brothers doctors are fighting back by pointing the blame at 288 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.160 Penny's own family. 289 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:29.240 He's the most beautiful child we have. 290 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:38.680 That's next just plain old fashioned evil, and there is 291 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.720 scarcely anything that can be done by mental health or 292 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:47.359 anybody else to prevent evil from having its way. Penny 293 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.200 Chang was gunned down by this former patient, Scott's Brothers. 294 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:55.000 Cleveland clinic attorney Jim Malone says doctors did all they 295 00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.119 could for both Struthers and the Changs, including taking the 296 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:03.240 extraordinary step of calling the Chang family to tell them 297 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.440 of Struther's release. But was that phone call sending a 298 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.359 mixed message? You're discharging him because you think he's say, 299 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:14.599 why then do you feel an obligation to inform the Changs. 300 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.640 That sounds like you weren't quite sure whether he was 301 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.319 saying Cleveland Clinic psychiatrist George Tessar, we. 302 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.079 Thought, in a view of the comments that he had 303 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.279 made and the kind of interaction he'd had with the 304 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:32.480 Changs prior to the hospitalization, that it was only courteous 305 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:35.799 fair to let them know that he was being discharged. 306 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:37.640 So there was a little concern. 307 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.200 There was concern that they should be informed that he 308 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:42.720 was no longer in the hospital. 309 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.960 But the Changs say that phone call led them to 310 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.039 believe they no longer had to worry about Struthers. 311 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:52.319 My dad told me, they call him Scott is no 312 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.960 longer a threat to your family. And with that little comment, 313 00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:58.400 I mean actually my dad was. 314 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.839 Very relieved t us to cremnd crink very much. They say, 315 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.039 no problem, do you have no intention? Which, okay, he's 316 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.200 possible a good boy. 317 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.559 But the hospital left out an important fact. Their assessment 318 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.599 of Struthers was only meant for the short term. Did 319 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.440 anybody tell the Changs that. Did anybody say, Okay, today 320 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.960 we think he might not be a risk, but a 321 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:25.519 month down the road it's anybody's bet and you better 322 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:26.160 be careful. 323 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:29.759 No, we didn't tell the Changs that common sense would 324 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.400 tell you that you don't know exactly what's going to 325 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.720 happen three months down the line. 326 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.160 Do you think in retrospect that warning was enough for 327 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.759 the Changs. 328 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:38.519 I don't know. 329 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:40.839 It's certainly an important point to consider. 330 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.119 Whether or not the warning was adequate is an issue 331 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:47.359 a trial because of what happened nearly three months later. 332 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.799 The Changs claimed that phone call is the reason why 333 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:55.000 they didn't become alarmed when out of the

blue Scott 334 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:56.839 Struthers make contact again. 335 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.400 Everything that happened to Scott after the summer is all 336 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.960 Pennies fall. She ruined his life for her own petty amusement. 337 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.640 This time it was in the form of emails. Everything 338 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:09.759 he did with Cleveland playing dealer reporter Mike Tobin. 339 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:12.079 The number one rule of stocking is never used your 340 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.799 own phone. He didn't care if he got caught. 341 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:20.400 He's talking about himself. The same angry rambling emails written 342 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:23.440 in the third person were sent to Penny, her brother, 343 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:27.240 and her father, but the Changs didn't find them threatening. 344 00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.400 I saw nothing dangerous in February email. 345 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.119 Nothing dangerous, just angers, complaint complaining, complaint. 346 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:36.160 Well, I don't think they believed there was anything to 347 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:39.079 worry about, but my word. But do you have to 348 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.039 hear to be worried in response. 349 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:45.119 To the In fact, the Changs reached out to brothers 350 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.000 after receiving them do anything. 351 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.319 Oh, basically, you know, I said, look, okay, you've scolded 352 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:53.599 her enough. Just leave her alone and continue your life. 353 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:54.400 You think about Penny. 354 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:56.519 There's lots of girls that'll house State campus. 355 00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:59.480 When you emailed him, what did you say back? 356 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.680 Like teacher, I say, go back to the college. In 357 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.440 media today, you are ruining yourself. 358 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.039 Isn't it possible that Changs were still relying on the 359 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.799 word of the hospital three months earlier. He's no longer 360 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.440 a threat, and that's why they didn't react to the emails. 361 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:21.160 I suppose it's a conceivable explanation, but a rather naive 362 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:22.799 responds to threat. 363 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.799 One month later, just days before the murder, Struther's email, 364 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:28.839 the Changs again. 365 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:34.000 Next time it's a March email about sixty pages, sixty 366 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.000 pages six zero sixty pages, like a book. 367 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.559 This time, the Changs didn't read them, thinking they were 368 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:44.400 simply more of Scott's harmless complaints. 369 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.880 And I saw nothing dangerous in the first few pages. 370 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.519 Had he read further, he would have been horrified, buried, 371 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.839 Within the sixty pages, Struthers spells out his plan to 372 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:56.640 kill Penny. 373 00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:59.440 I would like to take a hammer and repeatedly smash 374 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.519 her face and with it until her face is a Soupye, 375 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.880 bloody pulp. Scott's moral duty has been satisfied by just 376 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.640 sending these messages. You can never say that you didn't 377 00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:11.640 know you were given the opportunity. 378 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.079 Remember that that's really craepy. 379 00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:14.440 Uh. 380 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.000 He was warning them of what he was going to do, 381 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.000 and they didn't realize it. 382 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:19.960 I thought he was doing better. 383 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:23.519 Neither did RAINA. Krell, the therapists who had been treating 384 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:26.200 Struthers at the same time he was writing out his 385 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.720 murderous intentions. 386 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.279 Did you, when you were treating Scott Struthers have any 387 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.279 information at all. 388 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.200 Relating to these emails? 389 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:32.400 No? 390 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:32.839 I did not. 391 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.960 Did you ever hear of them when. 392 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.160 You were treating No? 393 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.880 Did you do your very best treating Scott Struthers. 394 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.640 I did the best I could with the information I had. 395 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:44.559 You're a professional person. 396 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:46.960 You're not expecting her to be a mind reader. 397 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:51.440 Nobody through my reader, but should know he has the intention. 398 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.880 But Cleveland Clinic attorney Jim Malone says, since only the 399 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.559 Changs knew about the emails. Only the Changs could have 400 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.960 prevented their daughter's death by notifying the police. 401 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:05.680 In the bottom of your heart, doctor Chang, don't you 402 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.160 know that you should have called for help, That a 403 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.359 call to the police would have stopped all of this. 404 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.039 If I read. 405 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:19.160 Email total de deafiniteit eight high car partice. 406 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:23.680 Was part of your strategy to deflect blame away from 407 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:25.160 the hospital and onto the check. 408 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:25.400 No. 409 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:28.119 I don't believe they're responsible for the death of their daughter.

410 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:31.200 But what I say is this, if that phone call 411 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:34.119 had been placed, the Shaker Heights Police Department would have 412 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.839 had this man off the streets very rapidly. 413 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.960 We probably take something to blame, right, But here they're 414 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:41.880 trying to saying that it's not their fault at all. 415 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.160 What kind of all? 416 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:44.440 Right? 417 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.599 Now, it's up to the jury to decide. 418 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.079 If the doctor the psychiatrist looks at a patient and 419 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:54.720 makes a decision about a treatment plan or a discharge plan, 420 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.240 and he does that in so called good faith, then 421 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:01.400 he's immune by law from the consequences of that decision. 422 00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:03.880 I will read the verdict in this case. 423 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.920 After just two hours. The jury agrees. 424 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:11.319 As to the defendant Cleveland Clinic in favor of the 425 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.599 defendant Cleveland Clinic. As to the defendant, Reina Kraw in 426 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.880 favor of the defendants, Rena Krow. 427 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.359 The Changs will get nothing from the clinic or the doctors. 428 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.079 Where do you think the weak spot in your case was? 429 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:27.599 I think it's extremely difficult to win a case against 430 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.400 doctors and or therapists. We've got a lot of burdens 431 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:32.400 to overcome all of the burdens around us. 432 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.720 What should we take from this case? 433 00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:38.599 We've learned that there are profound limitations to what psychiatry 434 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.880 can do and what its onus of responsibility should be. 435 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.359 We made our decisions based on what we thought were 436 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:50.039 reasonable observations and interpretations of what we were seeing, and 437 00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:52.200 it could well be that the Changs were as well. 438 00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.839 But doctor Chang still believes the psychiatrist could have done more, 439 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.480 and since we first brought you this story, worry He's 440 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:02.680 filed an appeal for a new trial. 441 00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.920 Penny was cured. 442 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.160 Nobody can change the situation. But I like to show 443 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.200 as many as psychiatrists do your Perferdal job care for, 444 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.279 you don't repeat such things. We don't like this happened again. 445 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.960 What advice would you have for a family that's in 446 00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:20.640 your situation. 447 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:27.799 It's better to be extremely worried than to have this happen. 448 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.880 I'm sorry, So what you're worried was so what? 449 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:34.680 Ooh, big deal? You have a sister, you have your daughter. 450 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.200 Stalking happens to be an occupational hazard of this business 451 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:54.880 television reporting that nobody likes to talk about, but the 452 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.000 stalking of on air personalities is a growing concern. It's 453 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.799 even become a topic of conversation at various professional gatherings 454 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.279 among local television anchors and reporters. They are especially at 455 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.839 risk since they're often encouraged to connect with the audience 456 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:14.440 on a personal level. The trouble is, it's hard to 457 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.240 know who's watching. Troy Roberts has a story of some 458 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.079 local television reporters who made the headlines for all the 459 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:23.039 wrong reasons. 460 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:28.240 Just energetic meteorologist George Kessler was the top rated weatherman 461 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.240 in Duluth, Minnesota. 462 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.440 Look, here's satellite picture in motion. You say, George, why 463 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.240 is it so windy? 464 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.799 In all of our audience research, we saw George Kessler 465 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.680 as our most popular personality. 466 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.039 KBJRTV News director David jinch. 467 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.119 People felt like George Kesler was their friend. 468 00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:46.720 Now the general six six o'clock. 469 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.880 News my television. You can't beat it for Russia. 470 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.839 If you're deep down inside secretly an adrenaline junkie, it's. 471 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:55.680 It's what you want to do. 472 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:56.240 I know. 473 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:57.160 Is that frozen now? 474 00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:00.880 Kessler felt right at home in Duluth with his wife, 475 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.759 Sheila and their small children. This was a perfect fit 476 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:04.720 for you, right. 477 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.440 You liked the city. 478 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.240 I love the city. The Luth is a great town. 479 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.160 You could drop a money clip in the middle of 480 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.519 the street and somebody chase after you to give it back, 481 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:16.599 and so you have this wonderful sense of it is. 482 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.839 It's almost childlike the security that you have here. 483 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:21.960 Snowshowers will hold

up you think they're. 484 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.319 Just gonna die. 485 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:27.799 But for George Kessler, the childlike security would turn into 486 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.440 agony and fear in the very town he embraced at 487 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.039 the same TV station he loved. It all began to 488 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.160 unravel one day in March of two thousand and when 489 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:40.640 Kessler arrived for work. 490 00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.640 It was Monday, and I was coming through the newsroom 491 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:49.200 pretty quickly saw that my message light was on. So 492 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.319 you're putting your stuff down, you set your voicemail to 493 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.880 play back, and all of a sudden it just erupted. This, 494 00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.319 you know, stream of vitriol came out of the phone. 495 00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:03.240 Oh man, mister, I'm not going homosexual, if you understand me. 496 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.200 The caller was a man Kessler had never met, forty 497 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:12.400 two year old Shawn Wayne Thorson, a psychiatric patient with 498 00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:16.960 a reputation for violence. Did Sean Thorson threaten you with 499 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.160 bodily heart? 500 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:18.799 Oh? 501 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:20.799 Yes, in no uncertain terms. 502 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.359 The next time you call me, preferably gave it the 503 00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:24.039 weather man. 504 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.799 I'm going to be the. 505 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:26.680 Joke. 506 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.359 He was seeing George's weather and he felt that George 507 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.519 was saying things to him. I'm seeing things threatening things. 508 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.640 He felt George was threatening him through the TV. 509 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.799 Yeah, this is Sean again, and I'm not going to 510 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.319 accept your apology. You happen to be one of those 511 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.799 people who can dish it out but can't take it 512 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.200 on it yourself. Well, you're going to find out the 513 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.559 hard way of my friend. I can definitely do something 514 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.519 about it, and God bestowed upon myself the power to 515 00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:52.799 do so. 516 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.440 Thorson ignored warnings from police, even a restraining order, to 517 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:02.079 stop making the phone calls. For that, he spent four 518 00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.039 months in a mental institution, but after he was released, 519 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.240 Thorson went straight back to the phone. 520 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.240 And your math ain't getting away what you've done to me, 521 00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.519 especially for calling your dogs the police

on me. 522 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.279 Over the next year, Thorson was committed and released for 523 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:24.279 mental illness two more times. Incredibly, there was nothing more 524 00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.160 Kessler or the police could do. 525 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.960 The way the laws are, you can't necessarily have security 526 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:35.160 in a situation like this until something really bad happens. 527 00:29:35.799 --> 00:29:40.400 Do you think, given the opportunity, Sean Thorson would have 528 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:40.880 killed you. 529 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:44.240 If he was in the grips of a delusion and 530 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:49.480 I happen to be available to him, Yes, without a doubt. 531 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.559 The question really is how many stalkers does a celebrity have, 532 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.480 not if they have any. 533 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.680 Forensic psychiatrist doctor Park Deets has spent years in investigating 534 00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:05.400 and testifying against serial killers and stalkers, including Jeffrey Dahmer 535 00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:09.640 and John Hinckley. Deete says stalking of television news personalities 536 00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.759 is an occupational hazard that few in the TV industry 537 00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:14.960 are willing to discuss. 538 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.640 The illusion of intimacy is inherent in the medium. It's 539 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:21.960 inevitable that some viewers are going to be attracted to. 540 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.039 This takebook satellite picture in motion. 541 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:29.279 And while George Kessler's ordeal wasn't unique, stalker's more frequently 542 00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:29.960 target women. 543 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:37.359 The ideal victim is a sweet, kind, gentle, pretty, accepting, 544 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:43.160 approachable virgin that allows many men in the audience to 545 00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:44.960 have the view she's meant for me. 546 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.440 Good afternoon, and welcome to New seven At noon. 547 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.119 I'm Melanie Moon, anchorwoman. 548 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:53.759 Melanie Moon was a rising star at WDBJ in Roanoke, Virginia, 549 00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:58.160 when in nineteen ninety six she started getting dark suggestive 550 00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.160 letters from not one, but several. 551 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.920 Viewers, letters detailing about sexual fantasies and ultimately ending with 552 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.559 me being drown at a bathtub? 553 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.799 What did these letters do to you? 554 00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.440 Psychologically, emotionally give you nightmares? 555 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:17.599 For months, I would take a shower with the bathroom 556 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.960 door locked. It would be at the grocery store. If 557 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:23.079 someone looked at me strangely for a second, I would think, 558 00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:25.799 maybe that's them. 559 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.160 By the fall of nineteen ninety seven, the FBI was 560 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.559 searching for Melanie Moon stalkers. Then she began hearing from 561 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.799 forty seven year old David Lee Duff. 562 00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:39.359 The first couple letters I got, he would call me 563 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:43.240 the Goddess of Dawn, and you and I are alone 564 00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.680 together each morning in my room. They got to things like, 565 00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.440 I like what you're wearing today. I know you were 566 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.960 wearing it from me, I saw you smiling at me today. 567 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:53.680 Thank you. 568 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.240 And then he sent me an engagement ring. 569 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160 Even after all she'd been through, Melanie Moon didn't think 570 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.799 David Lee Duff was not to harm her. After all, 571 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.960 he had only sent what she believed were fairly innocent 572 00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:10.000 tokens of his affection. But on November fifth, nineteen ninety seven, 573 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.920 Duff crossed the line and came to visit Melanie at work. 574 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.920 The confrontation was caught on videotape. Duff was told to leave, 575 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.720 and he did so without incident. Roanoke police then warned 576 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:27.839 him to stop contacting Moon, but the harassment didn't stop. 577 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.240 He continued to write letters, saying things like they can't 578 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.720 keep us apart. I'll wear jail house orange if. 579 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:35.039 I have to. 580 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.400 It almost came to that. In March of nineteen ninety eight, 581 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:46.319 Melanie Moon saw her stalker for the first time at 582 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.880 the Roanoke City Courthouse. 583 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:55.960 This takes away even more of your feeling unsecure and safe. 584 00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.799 David Lee Duff was convicted of stalking, but all he 585 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.680 got was a six month suspended sentence. 586 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:05.319 Or which goool has some breaking news. 587 00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:08.960 Melanie Moon got out of Roanoke, taking a new job 588 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.400 in another city where she's better prepared for unwelcome. 589 00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.160 Attention, tear gas on a keychain. 590 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:18.400 Carrying tear gas on her keychain, and a stun gun 591 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.160 in her purse. 592 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:21.640 Haven't had to use it yet. 593 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.839 Parkdeed says he understands why she has. 594 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:30.160

Nobody knows right now how many news anchors get stocked. 595 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.079 The likelihood is that for good looking females on the news, 596 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.079 nightly hits one hundred percent. 597 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.680 It's a Warningdeed says that not enough television personalities take seriously. 598 00:33:45.799 --> 00:34:04.680 Emergency. Tat you emergency, Well, I'm. 599 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.279 Just wondering if you guys could send out somebody to 600 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.639 check out my neighbor upstairs. 601 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:12.840 I'll hear a lot of something on the floor really loud. 602 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:18.239 January twenty second, nineteen ninety eight, at eight thirty am, 603 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.639 Michael Goodman calls nine to one one in Temple, Texas. 604 00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:26.960 Okay, and it's gonna be the apartment in two forty six. 605 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.360 Yeah, her name's Catherine Sidney. 606 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:31.920 Okay, does she live alone up there? 607 00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:32.480 Oh? 608 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:33.199 Yeah she does. 609 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:38.360 Minutes later, police arrive at the Wildwood apartments and make 610 00:34:38.440 --> 00:34:44.599 a horrifying discovery popular local TV reporter Catherine Dettman's nude 611 00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:46.639 body on the floor of her bedroom. 612 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:49.800 Details are sketchy at this point, but here's. 613 00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:50.079 What we know. 614 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:52.719 The thirty six year old Debtman had been on the 615 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.159 verge of an important career move. She was taking a 616 00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:59.119 new job at a much larger TV station in Dallas. 617 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.719 This be her last day of small town life in Temple, Texas. 618 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:07.440 It was common for her to in the morning get up, 619 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.960 let the cat out, and leave the door slightly ajar 620 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:12.760 so the cat could come in and out while she 621 00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:14.880 went about making coffee getting ready to. 622 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:15.320 Go to work. 623 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:19.159 Assistant Ta Murph Bledsoe. 624 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.920 The evidence appeared that she had come out of the shower, 625 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.239 she made her a noise and come out in a 626 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.440 robe or a towel, and there was a confrontation. 627 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:29.840 Homeside. 628 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:33.880 It was an extremely violent attack. 629 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.400 Temple Police Sergeant Keith Reid. 630 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.320 She had fifteen to sixteen stab wounds. 631 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.920 About half. 632 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.400 The suspect was twenty one year old neighbor Anthony Gary Silvestri. 633 00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.280 Police found him hiding in Catherine Duptman's bedroom. 634 00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.559 His clothes were covered in blood and he had on 635 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.679 his fingers in his hands. 636 00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:07.000 Friends of Catherine Deptman say Sylvestri had been stalking her. 637 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.000 One coworker told us Catherine had complained to him that 638 00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.800 Sylvestri was following her at the apartment complex and showing 639 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.000 up in her car when she came and left home. 640 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:19.440 She told me about this young guy asking her out 641 00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.639 at her apartment complex when she had gone to check 642 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.039 her mail. 643 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.840 Yolanda Johnson was a receptionist at the station where Katherine 644 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:30.480 worked and a close friend. She remembers Catherine mentioning Silvestri 645 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.400 by name. 646 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:33.239 He had told her that he had seen her on 647 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.239 TV and thought she was a very beautiful lady. 648 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:36.599 She confided on you. 649 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.280 Yes. 650 00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:42.360 Paula Brown considered Catherine Deptman her best friend. She says 651 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.679 Deptman was a trusting person and just didn't recognize Silvestri's 652 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.760 interests as potentially dangerous. 653 00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:50.360 She would have said something. 654 00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.880 I mean she would call when her stomach hurt if 655 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.199 someone were after her. 656 00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.320 We would have known that Deptman's naivete doesn't surprise part 657 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.679 Deats who says. Many on air personalities aren't even aware 658 00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:05.679 they're being stalked. 659 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.760 Most station managers don't even give the news anchors all 660 00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.079 their mail or all their email. Very few stations have 661 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:18.639 adequate screening of who gets on the premises or do 662 00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:23.719 the things for their talent that can help protect them. 663 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:27.840 Anthony Gary Silvestri pled guilty to the murder of Catherine 664 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.719 Dettman and is serving a forty years to life prison sentence. 665 00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:34.679 Is that the wrong place, at the wrong time, and 666 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.320 I got mad and I lost my temper. 667 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:41.880 Police searched Silvestri's apartment and found this pair of binoculars, 668 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:45.679 which they believe he used to spy on Debtman, and 669 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:49.639 a friend of Silvestri's told authorities that

Silvestri had been 670 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:50.239 watching her. 671 00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:54.400 Silvestri had taken him to the part of the apartment 672 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:56.400 where he could look out across the courtyard and see 673 00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.360 a window of Catherine's apartment. 674 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.280 What did he say as he's looking through the binoculars. 675 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.639 She's really fine. She looks like a model. 676 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.880 What did you want from her? I don't know. 677 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.679 She really believed that if she was kind and accepting 678 00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:21.639 that people would treat her well. I think that was 679 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.239 her desire, and I think that was her belief and 680 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.679 her mistake and her mistake. 681 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.800 It's a bad night out there, folks. There's no way 682 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.159 around it. 683 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.440 Temperature and Duluth, Minnesota, whether man George Kessler heard about 684 00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:37.079 what happened to Catherine Dettman. 685 00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.960 Yeah, this is Sean again. I'm really not afraid of 686 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:40.440 you people. 687 00:38:40.519 --> 00:38:44.639 And after enduring nearly a year of Sean Thorson's menacing 688 00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:49.440 phone calls, he made a drastic decision. Kessler quit his 689 00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.320 job and no longer works in television. 690 00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:54.760 And I said, you know, this is not something that's 691 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:55.800 going away. 692 00:38:56.440 --> 00:39:00.679 In his own twisted way, he wanted you to walk 693 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.920 away from your job and he accomplished that. 694 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:06.360 Yes, he won. 695 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.159 We have understand that he wasn't doing it out of malice. 696 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:11.159 Doesn't matter. 697 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:15.360 He won, right, Yes he did. 698 00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:27.320 In the last decade or so, all fifty states have 699 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.800 passed anti stalking laws. At least a dozen states make 700 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.559 stalking an automatic felony, and by no means is it 701 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.400 mainly celebrities who are victims. 702 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.079 If you feel you're. 703 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.639 Being followed or threatened, report it to the police, tell 704 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.800 a friend, and keep a record of it. That could 705 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:48.280 all be crucial to staying safe. No one wants to 706 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.440 go through life looking over their shoulder, but experts say 707 00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.239 a little healthy suspicion could be the first step to 708 00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.719 stop a stalker. That's forty eight hours investigates. 709 00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:51.639 One of my friends mom had texted me because she 710 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:54.880 lived pretty close to Grapevine late and she was like, 711 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:55.760 look what happened. 712 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.320 Developing story right now. 713 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.880 A body found in the banks of grape Vine Lake. 714 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:06.559 Nothing happens in grape Vine nothing except for what he did. 715 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.079 The victim was identified as Jacqueline Vandergriff. 716 00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:16.119 Everyone my name is Jacqueline Vandergriff, but friends call me Jackie. 717 00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:19.199 Jackie Vandergriff was twenty four years of age. 718 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:23.119 I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University 719 00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:27.320 and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness. 720 00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.480 And just beyond this area where the shade is pretty 721 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.800 much hitting, is where we had our crime scene. There 722 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.239 are a lot of things that will shock you, and 723 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.119 this is by far the worst thing I have seen. 724 00:41:41.480 --> 00:41:47.599 My manager texts me Charles has just been arrested. I 725 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.880 felt like the world was spinning, like everything was out 726 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:51.559 of control. 727 00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:56.400 To believe that. Last Tuesday, Jacqueline Vandergriff met up with 728 00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:00.920 Charles Bryant at a bar in Denton. Allen's video also 729 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.599 cell phone pings all put vander Griff and Bryant together. 730 00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:10.519 I remember him just being kind of quiet. I immediately said, 731 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:13.360 there's no way they have the wrong guy. There's no 732 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:14.239 way that he did this. 733 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.800 Are you telling me there's no evidence that Charles Bryant 734 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.800 killed Jackie Vandergriff. 735 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.719 Not direct evidence. 736 00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.760 This is kind of my calling dealing with these really 737 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.079 strange cases, the serial killer. It's the ritualistic killings. 738 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:41.719 Hey, how you doing, Jim home with the range life 739 00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:42.480 good today or not? 740 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.679 This is not a normal homicide. 741 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.000 Yeah, it just it all seemed to started with Caitlin. 742 00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.360 How screwed up were you? 743 00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:54.960 From Caitlin? 744 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.800 In the early days, it was good. After that first month, 745 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:05.320 that's when I started to see these warning signs that 746 00:43:05.719

--> 00:43:09.840 he was manipulative, very controlling. I just told him I 747 00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.360 can't do this anymore. This isn't working, this is over. 748 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:16.760 He flipped out. 749 00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.960 He showed up at your dorm room out of the blue. 750 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.440 You never gave him the address. 751 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.400 No, he didn't trust in his mind. 752 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:28.079 He was seeking revenge, warrned that we got his for 753 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:31.280 stalking on his ex girlfriend who had called the police 754 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:31.760 on him. 755 00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:36.079 How he was stalking me was completely related to Jackie 756 00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:36.960 Vandergriff's staff. 757 00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:45.239 There's some similarities on the way that Vandergriff looks and 758 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:47.599 the way that Bryan's ex girlfriend look. 759 00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:53.079 Do you think there's a chance of possibility that he 760 00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:56.719 walked into this bar and saw somebody reminded him of 761 00:43:56.800 --> 00:44:00.960 you and took his rage on her. 762 00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.639 Most definitely. I think that he really wanted to kill me. 763 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:06.440 I think that he wanted me dead. 764 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.000 When I first arrived on the scene, I saw a 765 00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.880 lot of police cars, saw fire trucks, There was a 766 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:01.800 lot of activity. 767 00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:08.159 It was September fourteenth, twenty sixteen, just before dawn when 768 00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:11.119 John Luna, a captain with the grape Vine Police Department, 769 00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:15.360 responded to a call about a gruesome discovery here at 770 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.159 grape Vine Lake. 771 00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:20.960 Just to offer the worn footpath, you have an area 772 00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:24.559 that's pretty well overgrown with weeds, but you could clearly 773 00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.199 see a small area that was burned. Just beyond where 774 00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.880 I'm standing. There was a body that was obviously charred. 775 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:33.079 It had been set on fire. 776 00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:36.760 The body found inside a blue kiddie pool was so 777 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.719 badly damaged that police could not determine the most basic 778 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.159 facts about the victim. 779 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:45.880 We didn't know if that was an adult or a child, 780 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:47.400 male or a female. 781 00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.239 The next day, using fingerprints, police were able to identify 782 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.400 the victim. It was Jackie Vandergriff, a twenty four year 783 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.039 old nutrition major at Texas Women's University in nearby Denton. 784 00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:05.519 I chose this major because I realized the importance of 785 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.519 nutrition and just overall health. 786 00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:10.840 We're both named Jacqueline, named after Jacqueline Kennedy. 787 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.920 One of Jackie Vandergriff's closest friends, Jackie Tan. They met 788 00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:16.639 in high school. 789 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:19.719 Ever since then we were Jackie Squared, and I loved it. 790 00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:23.199 She made me feel like I could be myself and 791 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.760 just be goofy and funny. 792 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:30.079 Jackie Tan remembers her friend as a good student who 793 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.440 was focused and trusting. 794 00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.920 That girl, smartest girl I've known. 795 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:42.800 She had her whole life of the head er her. 796 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.360 She had plans, Me and my detectives. We went out 797 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:54.679 there for her memorial service and sorry. 798 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.679 For Captain Luna. The brutality of this crime hit close 799 00:46:58.719 --> 00:46:59.119 to home. 800 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.519 Could have just as easily been my daughter that this 801 00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.039 happened to. 802 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:08.719 Jackie spent the last evening of her life in Denton 803 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:13.039 with this man. Police didn't know his identity right away, 804 00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.280 but this woman knew him very well. 805 00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:20.159 He would always give me flowers, always, especially if he 806 00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:21.400 had something to be sorry about. 807 00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.840 Charles Bryant lived some twenty miles away, but he had 808 00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.800 been making frequent visits to Denton trying to rekindle a 809 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:35.119 relationship with his ex girlfriend, Caitlin Mathis, who had recently 810 00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:38.440 moved there to attend the University of North Texas. 811 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:41.639 He was just trying to win me back, and I 812 00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:43.239 was just like, nothing is going to work. 813 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:48.079 Caitlin's involvement with Bryant had begun three months earlier in 814 00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.800 June in the town of Grapevine, when it came into 815 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.599 the restaurant where Caitlin was working as a server. 816 00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:57.039 The day that I met him was the day after 817 00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:03.719 I graduated high school. Lots of muscles and tattoos, which 818 00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:05.960 kind of interested me at the time. 819 00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:11.039 Bryant was then twenty nine, working as a bartender and 820 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:16.519 personal trainer. You're eighteen he's twenty nine. He's got muscles 821 00:48:16.559

--> 00:48:21.400 and tattoos and must have made your mother crazy. 822 00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:26.519 Yeah, extremely crazy in a good way though. Yeah, she 823 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:27.280 cared about me. 824 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.039 Being a mother of adult children is a different role. 825 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.679 You have to let go for them to fly away 826 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:41.119 and grow up with you. 827 00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:45.719 Caitlyn is the youngest of Karen Halsey's four children. She 828 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:47.159 says Caitlyn was hard to. 829 00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:51.840 Miss fireball, you know, when she's in the house. She 830 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:55.920 never walked anywhere, She ran everywhere. 831 00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:00.559 And Caitlyn ran headlong into the relationship with Charles Brian 832 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.920 that summer of twenty sixteen. One of their regular date 833 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.239 spots was at the park by Grapevine Lake, where this 834 00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.880 picture was taken. When Karen learned about the relationship, she 835 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.760 asked Caitlyn to show her a picture of him. 836 00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:23.840 I got this feeling just deep inside to my bones, 837 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.360 an evil feeling. And I said, he's going to hurt you, 838 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:30.199 He's going to do something bad. 839 00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:31.320 Wow. 840 00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.559 And she's like, Oh, he's nice, he's good to me. 841 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:36.440 He makes me feel like an adult. 842 00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.119 Were you thinking to yourself, you're eighteen, you're too. 843 00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:40.800 Young to know. 844 00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:45.360 Yes, But I didn't want to insult her. 845 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.639 Within weeks, Caitlyn was having serious doubts of her own 846 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:50.440 about Brian. 847 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.280 That's when I started to see these warning signs that 848 00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:57.920 he was manipulative. He was a bit of an artist, narcissist. 849 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.360 He thought very highly of himself. He would say things like, oh, 850 00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.519 you'll never find anyone better than me. It was toxic 851 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:08.039 and he was toxic. 852 00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:12.920 In mid August twenty sixteen, Caitlyn broke up with Brian. 853 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:15.679 She thought that was the last she'd see of him, 854 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.360 but the next day he showed up uninvited at her 855 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:21.440 mother's house. 856 00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.519 And somehow he convinced me to get back with him. 857 00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.320 He was trying to say, oh, I can work on 858 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:31.679 this and I can be better, and making all these promises. 859 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.239 But Caitlyn realized she wasn't interested in promises. 860 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.199 That was one of the things that my mom taught me. 861 00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.480 People do not change. You can't change someone. At that point, 862 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.760 I was just waiting for the perfect time to end things. 863 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:50.440 A little more than a week later, after Caitlyn moved 864 00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.480 away to school, she told Brian it was over again. 865 00:50:55.599 --> 00:51:00.159 Later that night, police found him on campus. 866 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:03.199 By sheer coincidence, I had made a traffic stop and 867 00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:04.599 he was driving that vehicle. 868 00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.360 Captain Jeremy Polk was then a lieutenant for the unt 869 00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.480 campus Police. He pulled Brian over early in the morning 870 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:13.840 of August twenty fourth. 871 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:16.239 I thought he was an intoxicated driver by the way 872 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:18.039 he was driving, and that was my focus. 873 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:20.239 So right now i'ma have to place you on, you know, 874 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.239 a race, so kid, you just may see. 875 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:23.920 It's all good. 876 00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:27.679 Bryant was not over the legal limit. He was charged 877 00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.440 with a few outstanding traffic tickets and they let him go. 878 00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:36.480 Later that same day, he was back on Caitlin's campus again. 879 00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:39.679 He actually knocked on the door of my dorm room. 880 00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:43.719 He didn't know prior to where I lived, and he said, oh, 881 00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:44.840 your name was on the door. 882 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:46.360 Did that creep you out? 883 00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:48.760 It did? At that point I was scared. 884 00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.000 Caitlin got him out of there and called campus police. 885 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:57.039 Captain Polk recognized Bryan's name on the report and went 886 00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.880 along to interview Caitlin the next day. 887 00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:04.400 She told us things like, I just did not like 888 00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:06.639 the way Charles spoke to me. I did not like 889 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:08.800 the way he treated me, and I made that choice 890 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:10.519 then and there. You know, I would do everything I 891 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:12.119 could to help her with this situation. 892 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:18.400 Polk issued a no trespass order banning Charles Bryant from 893 00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:23.360 the UNT campus, but once again Brian she would not 894 00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:25.320 take no for an answer. 895 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.039 It's the biggest fear I have as a police officer 896 00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:33.400 sometimes is emotion, because emotion drives

people to do things 897 00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:48.760 you would never imagine. 898 00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:54.559 It was my first stay there, and he walked through 899 00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.039 the door, and my heart just dropped to the bottom 900 00:52:58.079 --> 00:52:58.760 of my stomach. 901 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.920 It was August thirty first, twenty sixteen, a week since 902 00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:06.920 Charles Bryan had tracked Caitlyn Mathis down at. 903 00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:07.840 Her new dorm. 904 00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.079 Now he was invading her space again, coming into her 905 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.719 a new restaurant on her first day of work. 906 00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:17.239 Well, I was like, I just want you to leave. 907 00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:18.800 What did he say to that? 908 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.519 He didn't really say anything. He looked upset. My new 909 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:25.960 coworkers they were like, yeah, he was here yesterday looking 910 00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.239 for you. 911 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:32.280 Caitlyn asked her manager to keep Brian out, but her 912 00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:34.599 manager said there was nothing he could do. 913 00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.360 I can't work here. I don't feel safe enough to 914 00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:39.880 work here. 915 00:53:40.679 --> 00:53:43.199 Caitlyn went back to her old job a half hour's 916 00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.000 drive away. Her mother found it all hard to watch 917 00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:48.000 from a distance. 918 00:53:48.760 --> 00:53:52.800 I said come home. It was my motherly instinct to 919 00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:55.599 protect her, and in order to protect her, I had 920 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:58.280 to have her with me, but. 921 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:02.400 Caitlyn thought she'd be safe in her door. A week later, 922 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.719 on September sixth, what would have been their three month anniversary, 923 00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:08.880 Bryant was back yet again. 924 00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.079 He showed up to my dorm, knocked on my door, 925 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.000 and at this point I was shaking. I'm all alone. 926 00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:19.960 I actually hid in my sweet mate's closet. 927 00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.199 You hit Yes. 928 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.239 When I was on the phone with the police, They're like, 929 00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.559 we can't hear you. You need to speak up, and 930 00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:27.280 I was just afraid that he was going to hear 931 00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.159 my voice. I did hear him say, Caitlin, I know 932 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.119 you're in there, and just open up. I have something 933 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:35.599 for you. And I'm like, God, what what do you 934 00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.119 have for me? I don't want it. 935 00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:44.800 Bryant left flowers, then the two page letter. When police arrived, 936 00:54:45.320 -->

00:54:46.320 he was gone. 937 00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:49.800 I had heard him say he it's Charles sampsoning for you. 938 00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:51.039 Oh for sure it was him. 939 00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.760 Yeah, I know it's here, twenty seven myself before forty. 940 00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:57.880 Three police found him outside ten minutes later. 941 00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:01.519 Yes, we'll hear question now. 942 00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:02.960 In running clothes. 943 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.480 And arrested him for trespassing. 944 00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:07.920 So you know you're not supposed to be up that. 945 00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.760 Brian posted bond and was released within hours. Although Caitlyn 946 00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.559 had already blocked him on her phone, email, and social media, 947 00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:21.239 he created a new email address and wrote to her 948 00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.800 later that same day. Here I am heartbroken and with 949 00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:28.599 a criminal record for bringing the girl I love flowers. 950 00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:32.000 That's when it became really serious for me. If an 951 00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:35.880 actual physical arrest doesn't stop the behavior, then you're you 952 00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:36.920 know something is wrong. 953 00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:42.599 Captain Polpe helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order, and 954 00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:46.760 because Brian had kept trying to reach her after his arresting, 955 00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.800 Charles Polk had his officers go to Bryan's house the 956 00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:55.840 next day and charge him yet again, this time for stalking. 957 00:55:56.599 --> 00:55:59.360 This was his third arrest in fourteen days. 958 00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.119 I told him if he continued to communicate with Caitlin, 959 00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:07.360 I would use every email, I would use every text message, 960 00:56:07.360 --> 00:56:09.960 I would use every phone call as a reason to 961 00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:11.039 have him re arrested. 962 00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:15.000 Two days later, Bryant posted a five thousand dollars bond 963 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:16.639 and got out of jail. 964 00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:21.760 He was telling his roommate that I was the crazy 965 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.800 one in this relationship. So all of his friends were 966 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.480 kind of coming at me and they were like, why 967 00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:30.920 you need to like drop these charges against him. 968 00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:35.119 By September thirteenth, Bryant was back in Denton, just a 969 00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.679 half mile from Kaitlyn's dorm, in an area she had 970 00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.000 told him about back when they were still dating. 971 00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:44.039 I was talking about going up to Fries Street and 972 00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.440 like meeting new people. 973 00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.639 Bryant went to a Frey Street public house that night 974 00:56:48.880 --> 00:56:53.199 at about seven pm. An hour later, Jackie Vandergriff walked in, 975 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.920 asked about a job, and ended up in a conversation 976 00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:02.960 with the bartender and Charles bryn About forty five minutes later, 977 00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:06.440 Jackie posted a message on her Twitter, I'm glad I 978 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:09.280 decided to get off tender and walk to a bar. 979 00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:13.159 Jackie's friend, Jackie Todd. 980 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:18.960 Jackie was a very social person. Whenever she went out, 981 00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:23.239 she would make friends with everybody. And it wasn't even flirty, 982 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.760 it wasn't anything, you know. She was talking to the bartender, 983 00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:27.920 talking to other people. 984 00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.679 At about nine o'clock, Jackie left with Bryant, had the bartender. 985 00:57:33.559 --> 00:57:37.039 She and Bryant went to another bar nearby and started 986 00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:41.119 talking to a group of women. By nine forty five, 987 00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:46.480 it was raining and everyone was headed out. Jackie left 988 00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:47.880 with Charles Bryant. 989 00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.400 I feel like she felt comfortable enough with him that 990 00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.159 night because she had been hanging out with him for 991 00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:57.159 so long that she was like, hey, well whatever, he's 992 00:57:57.199 --> 00:57:59.280 just going to drop me off. It's not that far 993 00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:00.920 and I'll be good. 994 00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:06.920 Once in his car, Bryant stopped at a convenience store. 995 00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:11.840 This was the last time Jackie Vandergriff was seen alive. 996 00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.320 The day after she was found dead, there was a 997 00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.719 new post on her Twitter. Never knew I could feel 998 00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:20.000 like this. 999 00:58:21.199 --> 00:58:22.679 It was just really bizarre. 1000 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.480 Police suspected it was a message from her killer, and 1001 00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.800 they knew they had to move quickly to id de 1002 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:31.920 man Jackie had been with. They had some luck when 1003 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:34.840 they tracked down the women Jackie met that night. 1004 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:38.920 One of the friends that was with her had gotten 1005 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.199 a business card from this person because he was a 1006 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:44.280 fitness instructor. 1007 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:49.679 Now the Grapevine Police had Charles Bryant's name. They learned 1008 00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:51.639 about that restraining order. 1009 00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:56.320 So in my eyes, that played into him as being 1010

00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:57.320 a good suspect. 1011 00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:02.559 Grapevind Police old Captain Polk, who was in the middle 1012 00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:03.480 of a road race. 1013 00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.719 The first thing he told me was Charles Bryant was 1014 00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:10.199 their main suspect in Jackie's murder, and I immediately just 1015 00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:12.000 sat down on a park bench in the middle of 1016 00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:12.440 the race. 1017 00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:17.440 It floored me Bryant was emerging as a strong suspect, 1018 00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:21.920 but Grapevine police did not have physical evidence connecting him 1019 00:59:21.920 --> 00:59:26.239 to Jackie's death, So for now, Bryant was free and 1020 00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:29.280 Polk was worried about what he might do next. 1021 00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:32.000 I call Caitlin and I just asked, where are you? 1022 00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:34.400 I was like, does this have to do with the 1023 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.599 murder that happened in grape Vine? And He's like, I 1024 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.280 can't tell. I can't specify that to you, Caitlin, but 1025 00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:43.639 are you safe right now? 1026 00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:44.920 And what did you say? 1027 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:46.440 I said, I think so. 1028 00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:52.239 She might have been wrong. In the days after Jackie's murder, 1029 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.679 Charles Bryant sent Caitlin several emails, including this picture, writing 1030 00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:00.920 on it first kiss under this tree, once. 1031 01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:01.519 Upon a time. 1032 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.440 That photo was taken at Grapevine Lake. 1033 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.159 He might have taken that picture that same day that 1034 01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:09.159 Jackie was killed. 1035 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:27.440 It was September twenty sixteen, and Caitlin mathis Charles Bryan's 1036 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.920 sex's girlfriend was very worried he might have been involved 1037 01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.960 in the brutal murder at Grapevine Lake just days before. 1038 01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.440 I was waiting for more news to come out, because 1039 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.880 at that point they hadn't even arrested him yet. 1040 01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:43.920 Were you worried he was going to come after you? 1041 01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:48.039 I was. I thought that's exactly what he was going 1042 01:00:48.079 --> 01:00:48.280 to do. 1043 01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:53.519 The emails in picture Brian had recently sent Caitlin were 1044 01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:55.639 proof that he was still thinking about her in the 1045 01:00:55.719 --> 01:00:59.480 days after Jackie was killed, but they were also proof 1046 01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:00.559 of something else. 1047 01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:04.760 It was prohibited for Charles to communicate with her in 1048 01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.039 any manner, and if he did, he would have been 1049 01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:08.000 violating that order. 1050 01:01:08.800 --> 01:01:11.800 Captain Polk thought they could use those violations to help 1051 01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:15.719 the Grapevine police. He didn't have enough to make an 1052 01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:16.960 arrest yet. 1053 01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.239 So I told the detective, we can get a warrant 1054 01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:22.079 signed on some evidence we just got and at least, 1055 01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.440 you know, get him off the street. 1056 01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.519 You go about Charles, you go to Dean Charleston, Okay. 1057 01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.960 Charles Bryant was arrested on September eighteenth for violating Caitlin's 1058 01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:37.079 restraining order. Grapevine detectives were hoping they'd soon find more 1059 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.039 evidence connecting him to Jackie's death. 1060 01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:44.159 He's brought to the Grayvine Police Department for an interview, 1061 01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:48.440 and right away he's beginning to distance himself from having 1062 01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:51.719 any almost any interaction with Jackie. 1063 01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:56.440 Recognize who she is, he said, a bar. 1064 01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:00.719 And at the same time we began serving search warrant 1065 01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.079 for his residence. 1066 01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:09.639 What can you tell me about her? That's about it. 1067 01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.480 It had been four days since Jackie's body was found, 1068 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.519 plenty of time to dispose of any possible evidence, but 1069 01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:19.840 Captain Luna at Grapevine p D says they found a 1070 01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.840 lot at Bryant's home, including a large military style knife. 1071 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:25.840 You know what. 1072 01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:29.000 The purse was found in there too. 1073 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:32.360 Brian had no way to answer for any of it, 1074 01:02:33.239 --> 01:02:36.400 including two more items police found while he was in custody, 1075 01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.800 video of him buying a shovel the night Jackie disappeared, 1076 01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.800 and a kittie pool missing from his backyard that matched 1077 01:02:44.800 --> 01:02:47.320 the one Jackie's body was found in. 1078 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:50.199 We have video of you with this girl. 1079 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.119 I should have been here at the bar. 1080 01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:57.800 You're walking around Walmart at four o'clock and along and buying. 1081 01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:01.199 A shovel, uncomfortably, He's found. 1082 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.480 Dead in a pool that came from your backyard. 1083 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:08.719 He even got to the point at the end of 1084 01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:12.000 his interview with our

detective where he said, well, I 1085 01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.840 must have done it. I don't remember doing anything. 1086 01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:16.880 Everything points me it's like I had to. 1087 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:21.760 Have done it, and open and shutcase. Not even close. 1088 01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:26.320 Although there was overwhelming evidence that Brian had disposed of 1089 01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:30.000 Jackie's body, there was no evidence yet that confirmed how 1090 01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.199 Jackie had died, way that Bryan had killed her. 1091 01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:35.920 And that's when they reached out to me and asked 1092 01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:37.880 if I could come in and spend some time with 1093 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.360 him and interview him and see what I could. 1094 01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.960 Get, because you have an expertise in dealing with this 1095 01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.159 kind of personality. 1096 01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:48.519 Right, this is kind of my calling. 1097 01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:51.719 Jim Holland is the senior member of an elite team 1098 01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:56.239 of Texas Rangers, a select division of the Texas State Police. 1099 01:03:56.440 --> 01:04:01.039 He specializes in interviewing some of the country's most prolificers and 1100 01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:07.000 analyzing their thoughts and Charles Bryant seemed to fit the 1101 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:12.440 bill Jackie's body had been dismembered before being set on fire. 1102 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.559 How do you begin to understand a mind that would 1103 01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:17.119 do that. 1104 01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:20.599 A lot of these people actually want to tell you. 1105 01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:22.239 They want to tell someone. 1106 01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:26.599 At first, Bryant kept to his claim that he didn't 1107 01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:27.480 remember a thing. 1108 01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:30.320 Yeah, it's crazy, they don't remember me in this guote. 1109 01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.760 The idea that he doesn't remember doing it. No, it's 1110 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:36.000 absolute nonsense. 1111 01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:41.400 So you knew Charles Bryant remembered exactly what had happened. 1112 01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:45.719 Oh, yes, absolutely, And your job was just to pull 1113 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:46.400 that out of him. 1114 01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:49.360 Right, you know you're not a violin due you haven't 1115 01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:51.400 haven't really been in trouble. 1116 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:54.559 Hollin says his strategy was to try to make friends 1117 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.679 with Bryant and get him talking. 1118 01:04:57.239 --> 01:04:59.679 You obviously work out. I mean, you're stud right. 1119 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:02.239 You don't want him to look at you as a 1120 01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:04.320 law enforcement officer. You want him to think of you 1121 01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:07.360 as a friend, a campandre, a drinking buddy. You know, 1122 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:10.599 you kind of go back to what two boys would 1123 01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:12.320 talk about in the high school locker room, you know, 1124 01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:14.480 about the girl they kissed on Friday night. 1125 01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:20.800 You don't have any issues with girls, and Holland suggested 1126 01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.960 possible scenarios to see if Brian would take it from there. 1127 01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:30.280 Okay, so something happens, Sam, there's there's a snap, and 1128 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:31.639 we need to figure out what that is. 1129 01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:35.639 And maybe you know she got married. Maybe she's giving. 1130 01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.159 You all the signals and then cut you off. I mean, 1131 01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.280 there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right, 1132 01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:47.480 I mean chicks, right, you know, chicks. Now, as we're 1133 01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:50.800 going through the interview, there's I'm watching him. I'm, I guess, 1134 01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:54.320 in a way a human lie detector. I'm I'm reading him, 1135 01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:56.840 and I'm throwing things at him in which I know 1136 01:05:57.039 --> 01:06:00.320 the answer, and I'm looking for his responses, whether they're 1137 01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:02.440 false or true. 1138 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:08.239 Under the pretense of helping Bryant remember what happened, Holland 1139 01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.719 suggested they do a memory exercise. 1140 01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:13.519 What we're gonna do is these mind exercises, which means 1141 01:06:13.559 --> 01:06:14.920 we're gonna move back in time. 1142 01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:19.000 Bryant, who first claimed he didn't know who Jackie was, 1143 01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:22.519 then seemed to remember her. He said he could see 1144 01:06:22.519 --> 01:06:23.760 her coming into the bar. 1145 01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:28.039 Think she was looking for a child, I suppose. 1146 01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:29.159 And offering her a ride. 1147 01:06:29.639 --> 01:06:31.960 It makes sense of ning. Probably would offer you right home. 1148 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:34.760 There's tons of things in this that I can. 1149 01:06:34.679 --> 01:06:38.440 Tell you right over a pizza. As Holland tried to 1150 01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:42.679 steer Bryant to confess. He probed about a possible. 1151 01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:47.559 Motive, but what does everyone want to know? And yeah, 1152 01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:49.280 why and who's the only one who could tells that? 1153 01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:54.159 Holland eventually cut to the chase and asked if what 1154 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.320 happened with Jackie was really all about Caitlin. 1155 01:06:58.239 --> 01:06:59.880 Is there a time that you pictured her as a 1156 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.480 scirl friend, a digital or does anything

like that come 1157 01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:02.960 into play. 1158 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:09.880 The level of nonsense that came out of his mouth 1159 01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.760 at different points about that was just astonishing. 1160 01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:18.639 Do you think Charles Bryant looks around the bar and 1161 01:07:18.760 --> 01:07:22.679 sees Jacqueline vandergriff, Ah, she looks like Caitlin. 1162 01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.719 It wouldn't surprise me if he actually mistook her at first, 1163 01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:28.599 You know, that saw her from behind and thought, man, 1164 01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:31.119 you know my ex is here. I think in his 1165 01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:35.079 mind that whole night. I think that's what he pictured. 1166 01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:43.039 After the murder. Right after the murder, he took Jackie's 1167 01:07:43.079 --> 01:08:00.280 phone and used it to add me on Facebook. 1168 01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:04.440 When Texas Ranger Jim Holland was brought in to interrogate 1169 01:08:04.519 --> 01:08:07.880 Charles Bryant, the nature of the crime made him wonder 1170 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:12.280 if Bryan's brain was wired like the serial killers he'd encountered. 1171 01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.880 In what way is the mind of a serial killer 1172 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.279 different from common criminal. 1173 01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:21.960 You know, generally people like that tend to be sociopathic 1174 01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:26.159 or psychopathic mindsets, and it's just a different game. Psychopath 1175 01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:29.079 would be someone who's basically born with a scar on 1176 01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:33.479 their brain. Then a sociopathic mindset is something that society 1177 01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:37.680 has brought on, something happened to them that changed their psyche. 1178 01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.319 Something Maybe it happened in his childhood. 1179 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:44.600 Christy Dixon got a glimpse of Charles bryant psyche firsthand. 1180 01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:47.920 She met him on a dating app the year before 1181 01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:49.680 Jackie Vandergriff's death. 1182 01:08:50.359 --> 01:08:54.000 He seemed pretty quiet and reserved, almost like he was shy. 1183 01:08:54.279 --> 01:08:58.119 By the second or third time that we were hanging out, 1184 01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.000 I noticed he was getting pretty attached pretty quickly, and 1185 01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:05.760 I just was not there. It was very casual to me. 1186 01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:10.199 After she broke things off, he continued to pursue her. 1187 01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:14.079 Brian even told her that he loved her. Christie says 1188 01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.640 they'd never even shared a kiss. 1189 01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:20.119 It was a little too much, too soon, too vast. 1190 01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:24.079 I work with abuse children, and that to me kind 1191 01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:24.760 of stuck

out. 1192 01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:28.520 Christy says that's when she asked Brian about his childhood. 1193 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.800 He told her he had been molested, the claim that 1194 01:09:31.880 --> 01:09:34.600 forty eight hours could not independently verify. 1195 01:09:35.199 --> 01:09:38.760 I remember thinking that makes sense. I'm not a psychologist 1196 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.000 or anything, but his behavior sort of came off to 1197 01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:44.399 me as maybe an abuse child or someone who is 1198 01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:50.520 just needing that extra love that most people probably aren't seeking. 1199 01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:56.079 Still, Christy thought he was harmless and stayed in touch. 1200 01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:58.920 I thought he was just a really nice guy and 1201 01:09:58.920 --> 01:09:59.880 felt sorry for him. 1202 01:10:00.199 --> 01:10:01.079 I'm not an angry guy. 1203 01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:02.159 I'm not aggressive it. 1204 01:10:02.279 --> 01:10:06.239 As Ranger Holland continued his interrogation, he wanted to see 1205 01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:10.039 if Bryant would answer the key questions how did Jackie 1206 01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:14.479 Vandergriff die? Her autopsy didn't provide many answers. 1207 01:10:15.159 --> 01:10:17.359 There's a lot we didn't know. We didn't know where 1208 01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:19.720 it occurred, we didn't know exactly how it broke down, 1209 01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:21.000 and so that's what Michael was. 1210 01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:24.560 Holland wondered if the crime had a sexual element, but 1211 01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:28.159 initially Bryant denied anything sexual took place. 1212 01:10:28.760 --> 01:10:32.680 I recall having sex. You don't, no, no, let recall 1213 01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:33.359 having sex. 1214 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.520 After three more hours of interrogation, Bryant said they did 1215 01:10:37.560 --> 01:10:38.199 have sex. 1216 01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:39.640 Kinky sex. 1217 01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:43.680 According to Bryant, Jackie wanted to be choked with an 1218 01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:47.119 oversized zip tie that just happened to be in his car. 1219 01:10:48.159 --> 01:10:50.520 She didn't fight you in any way when you're putting on. 1220 01:10:52.239 --> 01:10:55.199 The consensual sex aspect of it. Was was one of 1221 01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:57.760 those things that no, I felt stronger that he was 1222 01:10:57.840 --> 01:10:58.640 lying about. 1223 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:02.319 And Bryant also claimed that neither he nor Jackie had 1224 01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:04.359 tightened the zip tie intentionally. 1225 01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:07.439 Okay, so you think he's tightened up on its home 1226 01:11:07.479 --> 01:11:10.439 Basically I could have had a snag on something. 1227 01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:20.760 Okay, that's what happened. It's just not responsive shake he. 1228 01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:27.039 Are you just thinking this is a complete and total lie. 1229 01:11:27.439 --> 01:11:29.520 Yeah, it's total fabrication. Did he kill her? 1230 01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:29.880 Yes? 1231 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:34.319 Absolutely. When you deal with these people, it's so rare 1232 01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:36.159 that you would sit down with them and they would 1233 01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:39.479 just tell you a to is e. This is what occurred, 1234 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:42.640 And they're always going to leave out things that make 1235 01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:45.119 them look really bad. In other words, there's an excuse. 1236 01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:47.000 I'm not a bad person. I didn't mean for this 1237 01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:48.880 to happen. It was an accident. 1238 01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:53.840 Although Bryant was evasive about how Jackie died as Holland 1239 01:11:53.920 --> 01:11:57.680 led him through the memory exercise, Bryant went into gruesome 1240 01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.720 detail about how he disposed of her body. 1241 01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:06.680 Ken, what do you see in the pool? Which is 1242 01:12:08.079 --> 01:12:14.560 right now? Tell me exactly what you see occurring after that? True? 1243 01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:16.520 And what happens next? 1244 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:20.399 Put it on fire? 1245 01:12:21.560 --> 01:12:22.000 The fire? 1246 01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:26.479 Why do you burn the body? It's for evidence. 1247 01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:31.079 Even if he couldn't admit to murder, Bryant seemed a 1248 01:12:31.119 --> 01:12:35.640 waiver between denial and acceptance, at one point conceding that 1249 01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:39.880 the ebony showed he had to have done it, and 1250 01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:45.399 if I mean. After an intense six hour interrogation and 1251 01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.880 with mounting evidence, Charles Bryant was finally charged with Jackie 1252 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.279 Vandergriff's murder. Christy Dixon could not believe the news that night. 1253 01:12:56.359 --> 01:12:59.560 I actually was scared to go to sleep. I had nightmares. 1254 01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:02.000 He had never threatened me before, but just the fact 1255 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.720 that someone that I felt that I knew had. 1256 01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.119 Murdered someone potentially. 1257 01:13:07.399 --> 01:13:08.479 I was terrified. 1258 01:13:09.560 --> 01:13:13.680 For Caitlyn Mathis, her worst fears were confirmed, and when 1259 01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:16.439 she tried to learn more about the woman Brian killed, 1260 01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:20.560 she made a shocking discovery on Facebook. 1261 01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:25.680 I looked up Jackie Vandergriff and I realized, oh my god, 1262 01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:26.680 I'm already friends with her. 1263 01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:32.800 Caitlyn says that digital friendship began after Jackie's death. You 1264 01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:38.359 got a friend request from Jackie Vandergriff. Yes, Caitlin believes 1265

01:13:38.439 --> 01:13:42.319 that Facebook friend request could only have come from one person, 1266 01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:50.760 Charles Bryan. That really sounds diabolical. It was Brian pleaded 1267 01:13:50.840 --> 01:13:54.680 not guilty to Jackie's murder. His defense was the same 1268 01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:57.439 story he told Ranger Holland. 1269 01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:01.720 These two young people met, the consumed a lot of alcohol. 1270 01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.800 Our position as they had sex, kinky sex, albeit and 1271 01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:07.399 she died. 1272 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:13.079 Bryan's court appointed defense attorney, Glennis McGinty says Jackie Vandergriff's 1273 01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.880 death was a tragic accident. Are you telling me there's 1274 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:22.000 no evidence that Charles Bryant killed Jackie Vandergriff, not direct evidence. 1275 01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:27.439 Prosecutors Lucas Allen and Anna Hernandez believe the evidence they 1276 01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:30.680 did have would be enough, but they also knew that 1277 01:14:30.800 --> 01:14:34.840 most jurors want to motive, and they weren't sure they'd 1278 01:14:34.840 --> 01:14:37.920 be able to tell this jury why they thought Jackie 1279 01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:38.600 was targeted. 1280 01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:42.039 You have to wonder what is driving this person to 1281 01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:42.880 do something like that? 1282 01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:46.800 In your minds, there is no doubt that the murder 1283 01:14:46.840 --> 01:14:52.560 of Jackie Vandergriff is connected to the stalking of Caitlin Mathis. 1284 01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:55.800 Yes. I think we believe that definitely. She might have 1285 01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:59.319 just been victim number one, with Caitlin being victim number two. 1286 01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:03.920 To help prove this, the prosecution was hoping that judge 1287 01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:08.039 would allow Caitlin to testify against her ex boyfriend turned 1288 01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:10.279 stalker in open court. 1289 01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:13.119 I felt sick. 1290 01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:32.199 Jackie was the most special person I know. I'll never 1291 01:15:32.239 --> 01:15:33.439 meet someone like her again. 1292 01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:37.399 In April twenty eighteen, a year and a half after 1293 01:15:37.520 --> 01:15:42.520 Jackie Vandergriff's untimely death, Charles Bryant was standing trial for 1294 01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:46.399 her murder her friend Jackie. Tan could not bring herself 1295 01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:47.239 to be there. 1296 01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:51.800 I wanted to go, but I'm going to be honest, 1297 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.800 I couldn't look at him. 1298 01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:58.680 Charles Bryant would have to answer for a long list 1299 01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:02.199 of items the prosecute fu should had collected, including that 1300 01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:06.079 giant zip

tie, the shovely purchase, the knight Jackie died, 1301 01:16:06.680 --> 01:16:09.399 and that large knife which police believe he used to 1302 01:16:09.479 --> 01:16:12.479 cut up her body, all found at his house. 1303 01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:17.560 This is something that you pray every night does not 1304 01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:19.880 happen to your child when they go off to school. 1305 01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:23.399 Investigators had also found a stun gun in his car 1306 01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.600 with Jackie's DNA on it, but it appears Jackie was 1307 01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:31.600 spared at least one hor Prosecutors Ana Hernandez and Lucas 1308 01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:35.079 Allen said the medical examiner was able to run tests 1309 01:16:35.079 --> 01:16:39.079 on Jackie's remains and found no evidence of sexual assault. 1310 01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.880 There was zero evidence to support that they had any 1311 01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:44.159 type of sexual encounter. 1312 01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:48.640 Prosecutors say this undermines Bryant's story that this was kinky 1313 01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:54.000 sex gone wrong. His attorney Glennis McGuinty, How could they 1314 01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.760 have had sex if there's no evidence. 1315 01:16:56.760 --> 01:17:00.760 No evidence to the degree of no sperm found in her, 1316 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.039 That doesn't mean they didn't have some type of consensual 1317 01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:06.079 sexual encounter. 1318 01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:08.119 She likes it, making it out. 1319 01:17:08.479 --> 01:17:12.760 Prosecutors chose not to play that interrogation tape for the jury, 1320 01:17:12.880 --> 01:17:15.600 which meant Bryant would have to take the stand if 1321 01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:19.079 he wanted jurors to hear his version of events. He 1322 01:17:19.119 --> 01:17:24.000 elected not to. Shouldn't he be explaining to the jury 1323 01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:26.079 why he's not at fault for her death? 1324 01:17:26.560 --> 01:17:29.800 And then that flies in the face of our constitutional rights. 1325 01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:34.159 But the defense knows it has an uphill battle to 1326 01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:37.279 convince a jury that Brian is not guilty of murder 1327 01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:41.439 while admitting he disposed of Jackie's body. If he says 1328 01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:44.640 it was just an accident, why didn't he call for help? 1329 01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:45.239 Sure? 1330 01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:46.239 Fair question. 1331 01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:52.119 Intoxicated, panicked, and his mind would not process all of 1332 01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:55.399 that to make a rational decision that you or I 1333 01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:56.760 would have made called the police. 1334 01:17:57.520 --> 01:18:01.960 But Bryant went further than simply discard Jackie's body, much 1335 01:18:02.159 --> 01:18:06.640 much further, and prosecutors wanted the jury to hear their theory. 1336 01:18:07.279

--> 01:18:12.319 A huge piece of that story was the stalking. 1337 01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:17.239 But before the jury could hear from Caitlyn, the judge 1338 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:19.960 would have to rule on whether or not to allow 1339 01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:25.720 this evidence. Local TV cameras were there when, without the 1340 01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:29.960 jury present, Caitlyn took the stand and faced her ex. 1341 01:18:31.119 --> 01:18:33.199 I was disgusted just to see his face. 1342 01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:34.720 Did he look at you? 1343 01:18:34.760 --> 01:18:35.520 Did you meet eyes? 1344 01:18:36.199 --> 01:18:38.399 At one point we had to when they made me 1345 01:18:39.640 --> 01:18:43.600 describe to the court what he was wearing, and he 1346 01:18:43.720 --> 01:18:45.279 just had this smirk on his face. 1347 01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:48.199 There's nothing really that can prepare you for that, is there? 1348 01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:48.680 No? 1349 01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:52.119 The second I walked out those doors, I started bawling. 1350 01:18:54.359 --> 01:18:57.800 In the end, the judge ruled against Caitlyn being able 1351 01:18:57.840 --> 01:18:59.319 to tell her story to the jury. 1352 01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:01.960 It was definitely a real blow to us. 1353 01:19:02.319 --> 01:19:03.680 That was the right decision. 1354 01:19:04.000 --> 01:19:07.520 Why he had not been convicted of anything with Caitlin. 1355 01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:12.199 As the jury went out to deliberate, the defense was hopeful. 1356 01:19:12.439 --> 01:19:15.520 I don't believe that they could prove that he murdered her. 1357 01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:18.439 I don't think that they proved that. 1358 01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:22.079 But would the jury agree? They were out for a 1359 01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:25.760 little over two hours, and even without hearing Caitlyn's story, 1360 01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:27.199 will we the jury find. 1361 01:19:26.960 --> 01:19:30.279 The defendant Charles be and Bryant Junior guilty of the 1362 01:19:30.279 --> 01:19:31.199 offensive murder. 1363 01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:37.359 Charles Bryant was found guilty of Jackie Vandergriff's murder and dismemberment. 1364 01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:41.199 To your way of thinking, was justice done? 1365 01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:42.119 Yes? 1366 01:19:43.560 --> 01:19:47.039 I knew she was up there and said thank you. 1367 01:19:48.159 --> 01:19:52.159 Because prosecutors had no evidence Bryant committed another crime at 1368 01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:55.439 the same time as Jackie's murder, like rape or kidnapping, 1369 01:19:55.960 --> 01:19:59.159 he was not eligible for the death penalty. He was 1370 01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:02.960 sentenced to life. 1371 01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:04.119 As terrible as it insist to say, but I wanted 1372 01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:04.960 the death penalty. 1373 01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:09.600 Under Texas law, Bryant could be eligible for parole after 1374 01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:14.319 thirty years. Caitlyn says she feels like she's still looking 1375 01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:17.159 over her shoulder and always will be. 1376 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:20.720 I fear that when he gets out, he'll come and 1377 01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:24.079 find me and do something to either me or someone 1378 01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:27.039 that I love. That's my biggest fear. 1379 01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:32.800 Ever since this happened, Caitlyn and her mother have been 1380 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:35.159 thinking about Jackie and her. 1381 01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:38.840 Family this whole time. I wanted to reach out, but 1382 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:40.319 I didn't know how they felt. 1383 01:20:40.760 --> 01:20:46.279 Nearly two years after Jackie died, they finally met her grandmother. 1384 01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:50.039 Bless her heart. She immediately came up to us and 1385 01:20:50.159 --> 01:20:52.720 too Caitlin, and hugged her and said, I've been so 1386 01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:55.520 worried about you these past two years. 1387 01:20:56.199 --> 01:21:02.239 Wow, Karen, was this the part. 1388 01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:02.560 That gets you? 1389 01:21:04.239 --> 01:21:10.239 He took away their little girl and the pain of 1390 01:21:10.399 --> 01:21:16.079 the fall in their eyes. I could feel their pain, And. 1391 01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:21.840 Yet the grandmother was telling Caitlin she was worried about Caitlin. Yes, 1392 01:21:22.399 --> 01:21:23.960 you sound like very special people. 1393 01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:24.960 They are. 1394 01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:33.079 Caitlyn says she struggled with the fact that she survived 1395 01:21:33.479 --> 01:21:40.359 and Jackie did not. This so easily could have been you. 1396 01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.800 In some days, I wish it was. It's just the 1397 01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:49.680 guilt that eats me up. Sometimes I would have easily 1398 01:21:49.760 --> 01:21:51.840 had taken her place if I had the chance. 1399 01:22:08.680 --> 01:22:09.600 Forty eight hours. 1400 01:22:10.119 --> 01:23:00.079 Don't miss an episode. 1401 01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:01.760 I don't think the grieving ever. 1402 01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:09.880 Ends, it evolves. We've been wanting to tell Amy's story 1403 01:23:09.920 --> 01:23:13.399 and just felt like we weren't ready before, but now 1404 01:23:13.399 --> 01:23:14.640 we feel like we can do it. 1405 01:23:16.920 --> 01:23:19.199 I'm so proud of her and what she's accomplished. 1406 01:23:21.439 --> 01:23:22.760 Oh my goodness. 1407 01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:32.840 Fire eater, dancer, photographer, model, therapist. 1408 01:23:35.279 --> 01:23:36.520 She wanted to fix people. 1409 01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:38.439 You might want to speak to this woman. 1410 01:23:38.920 --> 01:23:40.279 Doctor Amy harwork. 1411 01:23:40.119 --> 01:23:42.279 As a licensed marriage and foundly therapist. I see all 1412 01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:44.760 kinds of different things when your anxiety,

depression, change of 1413 01:23:44.840 --> 01:23:47.039 life stuff, breakups, moves, things like that. 1414 01:23:48.960 --> 01:23:50.439 Amy helped me so much. 1415 01:23:51.159 --> 01:23:52.840 I had gone to see Amy. 1416 01:23:52.960 --> 01:23:57.399 Because I had dealt with a relationship that got very 1417 01:23:57.399 --> 01:24:01.359 out of control and turned into a very serious, stoken case. 1418 01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:05.119 Jealousy can become dangerous and even lead to violence. It 1419 01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:05.840 can lead to death. 1420 01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:11.800 I want to read the standard to four thirty four. 1421 01:24:12.560 --> 01:24:13.920 Somebody just attack my roommate. 1422 01:24:13.960 --> 01:24:14.960 We gonnare. 1423 01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:22.520 I just was woken up by screaming, like blood curdling scream, 1424 01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:25.560 and then then I realized that the screaming wasn't stopping 1425 01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:30.159 or slowing down, yelled up, you know, Amy, and I 1426 01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:33.359 heard choking. Right after that, I knew we were in trouble. 1427 01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:37.079 This is for real, this is really happening. I knew 1428 01:24:37.199 --> 01:24:38.920 we needed help, Like I'm going to have to make 1429 01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:39.720 a break for it. 1430 01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:46.399 When the first responders first got that call, where did 1431 01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:46.640 they go? 1432 01:24:46.840 --> 01:24:49.079 They came right here to this house. 1433 01:24:49.239 --> 01:24:51.159 Hey, sir, I can help you. 1434 01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:53.279 Was attacked. 1435 01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:53.960 I know what I heard. 1436 01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:54.399 I heard it. 1437 01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:55.079 She's screaming. 1438 01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:56.039 She was thrown to the ground. 1439 01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:57.239 Okay, hold on, okay. 1440 01:24:57.279 --> 01:25:01.239 Michael Herman was out here. He's frantic, he's nervous. 1441 01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:04.000 They didn't know what to think of this guy, right right. 1442 01:25:04.039 --> 01:25:07.079 They had no idea of who he was, why he 1443 01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:09.880 was involved in all this. They knew he was rambling on. 1444 01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:12.039 They had some doubts about him. 1445 01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.039 Originally, do me a favorite, Do me a favorite? 1446 01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.159 Calm down, calmed down, other than your roommate. 1447 01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:18.359 Is there anybody else inside the dout? 1448 01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:19.159 No, I don't know. 1449 01:25:21.199 --> 01:25:23.399 And I'm walking them around to the back of the 1450 01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:29.239 house and it's dark back there. There's some light, but 1451 01:25:29.279 --> 01:25:30.439 it's pretty dark back there. 1452 01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:32.560 And when they get around to the back, now they 1453 01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:37.079

can see a body on the on the ground, Sure, sir, 1454 01:25:37.159 --> 01:25:37.520 come here. 1455 01:25:37.680 --> 01:25:41.520 I remember not knowing what I was seeing, you know, 1456 01:25:41.560 --> 01:25:43.560 And after realizing it was Amy. 1457 01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:49.640 Really what hit me was the way that she was killed, 1458 01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:53.159 so heartbreaking that her, of all people, had to be 1459 01:25:53.279 --> 01:25:54.279 taken away. 1460 01:25:54.039 --> 01:25:54.840 That she was. 1461 01:25:56.760 --> 01:25:58.039 I said, I know who did it? 1462 01:25:58.279 --> 01:25:58.439 Why? 1463 01:25:58.640 --> 01:25:59.239 A new one? 1464 01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:03.279 I was the only person she was afraid of. That's 1465 01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:04.840 the only one she was ever afraid of. 1466 01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:57.960 Take a seat. Take a seat. 1467 01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:02.720 In the early morning darkness of February fifteenth, twenty twenty, 1468 01:27:03.159 --> 01:27:07.800 police body cameras were recording as Amy Harwick, barely clinging 1469 01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:11.560 to life outside of her Hollywood Hills home, was taken 1470 01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:12.640 to a hospital. 1471 01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:16.199 If she says anything in the hospital life, she wanted 1472 01:27:16.279 --> 01:27:16.760 to know that. 1473 01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.039 As EMTs tried to save Amy. 1474 01:27:19.880 --> 01:27:23.600 Officers from the Los Angeles Police Department tried to make 1475 01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:28.399 sense of this scene. Amy's roommate, Michael Herman, appeared to 1476 01:27:28.399 --> 01:27:32.560 be the only witness. He told officers an intruder had 1477 01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:33.520 attacked Amy. 1478 01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:36.039 I swear to you that was a struggle her. 1479 01:27:36.680 --> 01:27:39.239 But is there any sign of the intruder? 1480 01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:40.680 There wasn't, There wasn't. 1481 01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.880 Scott Masterson was the lead detective. 1482 01:27:45.239 --> 01:27:47.800 All we knew when we showed up was that a 1483 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:51.239 female was found on the ground in the back of 1484 01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:54.439 the house. We're wide open to what really went on. 1485 01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:58.640 Even open to the possibility that this wasn't foul play 1486 01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:03.119 at all. When officers searched a three story house, they 1487 01:28:03.159 --> 01:28:07.399 found Amy's purse, jacket and broken necklace on the floor, 1488 01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:12.479 not exactly telltale signs of a crime, and a discovery 1489 01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:15.760 on Amy's balcony made them wonder if this could have 1490 01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:18.840 been an accident or even suicide. 1491 01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:22.319 On the deck of the balcony, we found a medium 1492 01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:29.439 size syringe and it was loaded with a yellowish brown substance, yes, heroin. 1493 01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:32.600 When the officers first saw that, they thought, what was 1494 01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:33.359 this some kind of. 1495 01:28:34.119 --> 01:28:38.640 Drug dealer, yeah, exactly, or maybe she was using drugs 1496 01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:39.840 and fell over. 1497 01:28:40.239 --> 01:28:42.399 They didn't know, sir, do you know her history of 1498 01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:42.880 joe use? 1499 01:28:43.640 --> 01:28:44.640 She's so she didn't drink it. 1500 01:28:44.680 --> 01:28:45.319 She didn't even drink. 1501 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:46.439 She doesn't drink. 1502 01:28:46.479 --> 01:28:47.279 She doesn't even drink. 1503 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.680 And when I first saw it, I said, that's. 1504 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:53.800 Not heroin, not heroin. But he didn't know what it was. 1505 01:28:54.199 --> 01:28:56.000 But what did you think? Wasn't that odd? 1506 01:28:56.520 --> 01:29:02.720 Very odd, very strange. 1507 01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:04.880 And very strange to investigators, says Masterson. Was that Michael 1508 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:07.920 had blood on his shirt, and although he said he 1509 01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:10.760 was a roommate, he didn't have his keys to the 1510 01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.399 house when first responders arrived. 1511 01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:15.840 They don't know if he's part of the problem, part 1512 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:19.720 of the solution, because he's a blood so you know, 1513 01:29:19.720 --> 01:29:21.399 they're thinking, was he in a fight with her? 1514 01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:27.840 That was not true. Michael Herman is telling his story 1515 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:31.159 publicly for the first time about the events on the 1516 01:29:31.279 --> 01:29:35.560 night of Valentine's Day twenty twenty and into the early 1517 01:29:35.680 --> 01:29:38.920 hours of the next day. The word nightmare isn't even 1518 01:29:38.960 --> 01:29:39.399 big enough. 1519 01:29:39.399 --> 01:29:40.079 Where is it? 1520 01:29:40.279 --> 01:29:40.560 No? 1521 01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:44.760 No, Amy had gone out with friends, and Michael was 1522 01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:46.399 in his downstairs bedroom. 1523 01:29:46.640 --> 01:29:50.439 I've been mostly nodding on and off. I remember what 1524 01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:53.199 sounded like a plate drop and being woken up by. 1525 01:29:53.079 --> 01:29:57.560 It, thinking it was Amy's cat, He says, he fell 1526 01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:01.680 back asleep. He later woke up to Amy returning home 1527 01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:06.520 and that blood curdling scream. He then heard what sounded 1528 01:30:06.560 --> 01:30:10.439 like Amy being thrown to the floor and later choked. 1529 01:30:10.920 --> 01:30:13.079 Sound made you feel that there was someone up with her. 1530 01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:15.600 I knew for a fact there was somebody up there. 1531 01:30:15.640 --> 01:30:19.079 After that, I'm trying to listen. You don't know for 1532

01:30:19.159 --> 01:30:22.039 sure what's going on as the acting alone was there 1533 01:30:22.079 --> 01:30:25.439 more than one person start rushing to look for my. 1534 01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:30.319 Phone, but Michael says he couldn't find his phone. He 1535 01:30:30.439 --> 01:30:32.920 then started yelling to scare the intruder. 1536 01:30:33.399 --> 01:30:36.079 I remember thinking like, this is so much worse than 1537 01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:39.239 any horror movie I've ever seen. You're realizing that to Savor, 1538 01:30:39.399 --> 01:30:42.079 like you've got to make the decision to leave her 1539 01:30:42.279 --> 01:30:44.359 was such a hard decision. 1540 01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:49.239 Michael fled the house to get help, but when he 1541 01:30:49.279 --> 01:30:52.560 got to the front gate, it was locked. He climbed 1542 01:30:52.560 --> 01:30:57.640 over a fence, cutting himself on spiked rods. Frantically, he 1543 01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:01.640 ran to the next door neighbor's house. That neighbor's surveillance 1544 01:31:01.720 --> 01:31:06.159 camera shows Michael knocking on the door, but no one answers. 1545 01:31:06.600 --> 01:31:08.720 I just kind of panic, you know, feeling like a 1546 01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:10.039 lot of time. 1547 01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:10.760 Had already passed. 1548 01:31:11.399 --> 01:31:14.439 He then ran into someone on the street and used 1549 01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:16.279 their phone to call nine to one one. 1550 01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:19.680 You go to need to get us a copy here quick, sir. 1551 01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:21.399 The officers are on the way. 1552 01:31:23.079 --> 01:31:27.760 After spending hours at the scene, investigators found something in 1553 01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:31.640 the light of day that they had missed before. A 1554 01:31:31.680 --> 01:31:35.079 broken window from a French door on the ground floor 1555 01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:36.880 with blood nearby. 1556 01:31:37.279 --> 01:31:40.479 And so as soon as we saw that, Okay, this 1557 01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:42.760 is our point of entry. We have a crime here. 1558 01:31:42.920 --> 01:31:45.279 Somebody broke into this house and did this. 1559 01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:48.000 So this was the first piece of evidence that said 1560 01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:50.479 to you, Mike Krman might be telling you the truth. 1561 01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:52.079 Correct. Correct. 1562 01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:57.840 Later at the Hollywood Police station, Michael told Masterson about 1563 01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:01.520 the person he believed was respond. 1564 01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:03.079 Told him she had an ex boyfriend that she had 1565 01:32:03.079 --> 01:32:06.880 had a restraining order against that had expired. I don't 1566 01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:09.079 know his name, but Robert would know his name. 1567 01:32:10.479 --> 01:32:15.000 Robert is Robert Cochlin, one of Amy's closest friends. We 1568 01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:18.239 first spoke to Robert in twenty twenty. He told us 1569 01:32:18.279 --> 01:32:19.520 what he told police. 1570 01:32:20.439 --> 01:32:21.960 They were like, do you know do you know who 1571 01:32:22.039 --> 01:32:26.359 might have could have done this? And I was like, yeah, Gareth. 1572 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:31.439 Gareth Purcell's an old boyfriend whom Amy had had a 1573 01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:35.920 troubled relationship with when they dated almost ten years earlier. 1574 01:32:36.199 --> 01:32:37.680 I was like, you need to go find this guy 1575 01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:38.199 right away. 1576 01:32:40.399 --> 01:32:44.119 Masterson then broke the news to Robert and Michael. Amy 1577 01:32:44.319 --> 01:32:47.920 had died at the hospital. She was thirty eight years old. 1578 01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:52.479 How difficult was it to hear that Amy didn't make it. 1579 01:32:52.479 --> 01:32:53.640 It's still difficult to hear. 1580 01:32:55.880 --> 01:32:59.960 As investigators worked to find Amy's ex boyfriend, they also 1581 01:33:00.199 --> 01:33:05.279 tried to find Amy's parents, Penny and Tom Harwick in Pennsylvania. 1582 01:33:06.039 --> 01:33:09.279 The Harwicks remember getting ready for bed when there was 1583 01:33:09.319 --> 01:33:15.920 a knock at the door. It was the local police. 1584 01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:16.279 And he said, Amy's been murdered. 1585 01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:25.159 It's a blur right now. 1586 01:33:26.600 --> 01:33:30.279 I don't know how to describe it, just devastated. 1587 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:35.720 Penny and Tom's life with Amy began when they adopted 1588 01:33:35.760 --> 01:33:37.920 her as an eleven month old baby. 1589 01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:42.279 Do you remember the first time you saw your little girl? 1590 01:33:42.760 --> 01:33:42.920 Oh? 1591 01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:46.279 I absolutely remember, kind of like a fairy tale. It's like, 1592 01:33:46.319 --> 01:33:49.560 here's this beautiful little girl sitting there. She's going to 1593 01:33:49.600 --> 01:33:52.279 come home with us and be our daughter. 1594 01:33:53.319 --> 01:33:55.760 It was wonderful, and believe it or not, she had 1595 01:33:55.760 --> 01:33:57.840 a headful of curls. 1596 01:33:57.600 --> 01:33:59.920 And her hair was honeycolored. By the time she was 1597 01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:01.479 for it was so dark. 1598 01:34:01.840 --> 01:34:05.840 Around that same time, the Harwicks adopted their son, Chris. 1599 01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.560 And she was okay with it for a couple of 1600 01:34:08.560 --> 01:34:12.399 weeks and then she said, well, when is he going back? 1601 01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:15.560 And I said, well, he's not. He's your brother. He's 1602 01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:20.359 going to be here forever. How would you describe your sister? 1603 01:34:21.039 --> 01:34:26.239 Amy was a very interesting character. She was into heavy 1604 01:34:26.279 --> 01:34:27.720 metal and rock music, going. 1605 01:34:27.600 --> 01:34:30.800 To concerts, and Amy got

her parents in on the 1606 01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:31.600 action too. 1607 01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:34.159 She turned Penny and Eye into middle heads. 1608 01:34:34.479 --> 01:34:37.840 Her head sees seriously seriously. 1609 01:34:38.039 --> 01:34:42.119 She would always manage to get either backstage or to 1610 01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:43.359 meet the performers. 1611 01:34:44.039 --> 01:34:45.359 That's just who she was. 1612 01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:51.199 After high school, Amy met Tommy Decker, a drummer from 1613 01:34:51.359 --> 01:34:56.239 la at a local concert. The two began dating long distance, 1614 01:34:56.760 --> 01:34:57.199 and then. 1615 01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.119 She said, I want to move out there. I want 1616 01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:00.119 to move out to lam. 1617 01:35:00.920 --> 01:35:04.359 In two thousand and one, she headed west. She was 1618 01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:05.600 twenty years old. 1619 01:35:06.039 --> 01:35:09.239 She needed to find out who she was. She needed 1620 01:35:09.279 --> 01:35:10.399 to do that for herself. 1621 01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:14.720 Soon the couple tied the knot, but after a three 1622 01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:20.319 year marriage, Tommy and Amy divorced. It wasn't until two 1623 01:35:20.399 --> 01:35:22.760 thousand and nine that Amy would go on to meet 1624 01:35:22.840 --> 01:35:26.720 Gareth Pearce House, the man police suspected had killed her 1625 01:35:27.039 --> 01:35:29.039 and whom they were now searching for. 1626 01:35:40.880 --> 01:35:44.000 Heartbreak for a local neighborhood after a well known therapist 1627 01:35:44.279 --> 01:35:46.439 was killed at her Hollywood Hills home. 1628 01:35:48.760 --> 01:35:51.600 People have left flowers here for Amy Harwick and her 1629 01:35:51.680 --> 01:35:55.720 friends and family are hoping for justice. 1630 01:35:56.800 --> 01:35:59.840 I was very confident that, you know, Gareth Purcehouse was 1631 01:35:59.840 --> 01:36:00.399 a guy. 1632 01:36:01.800 --> 01:36:05.520 Within thirteen hours of Amy Harwick's death on February fifteen, 1633 01:36:05.680 --> 01:36:10.800 twenty twenty, police descended on Gareth Pearcehouse's beachside neighborhood to 1634 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:14.000 arrest him. 1635 01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:18.119 You could tell he was playing the old what's this about? Well, 1636 01:36:18.159 --> 01:36:18.880 why do you want to talk? 1637 01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:19.359 Who? 1638 01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:23.000 Oh, yeah, I know Amy. Sure, yeah. He basically was saying, 1639 01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:23.760 I've been at home. 1640 01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:30.880 Detectives weren't buying that story or the explanation Parcells gave 1641 01:36:31.279 --> 01:36:34.720 for what appeared to be a fresh black eye. He 1642 01:36:34.800 --> 01:36:36.680 blamed a home renovation. 1643 01:36:37.279 --> 01:36:39.600 I said, I think you better get a contractor if 1644 01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:41.439 you get a hold of power tool, you're gonna be 1645 01:36:41.520 --> 01:36:42.199 in real trouble. 1646 01:36:43.840 --> 01:36:48.319 Pearcell's was charged with Amy's murder on February nineteenth, twenty twenty, 1647 01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:52.640 and detectives were learning about his troubled past, beginning not 1648 01:36:52.840 --> 01:36:55.840 long after he and Amy began dating in two thousand 1649 01:36:55.880 --> 01:36:56.279 and nine. 1650 01:36:56.640 --> 01:36:59.239 They seemed like a pretty fun couple and kind of 1651 01:36:59.359 --> 01:37:01.319 nice to see, you know, friends get together. 1652 01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:04.840 When we first spoke to Rudy Torres in twenty twenty, 1653 01:37:05.119 --> 01:37:08.399 he talked about how the couple met. Amy, then working 1654 01:37:08.479 --> 01:37:12.119 as a model and dancer, would often run into herseuse, 1655 01:37:12.319 --> 01:37:16.079 an events photographer, at flashy la parties. 1656 01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:18.119 If you had meet him, you would think he's charming, 1657 01:37:19.039 --> 01:37:21.000 little goofy kind of door key. 1658 01:37:21.680 --> 01:37:25.279 He wasn't a musician like she don't know the dayd no, no, 1659 01:37:25.479 --> 01:37:27.439 And she was trying to break that habit. 1660 01:37:28.399 --> 01:37:33.439 Herseuse was also a computer expert and an aspiring comedian. 1661 01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:35.399 Here he is one more time for Gareth. 1662 01:37:35.479 --> 01:37:36.760 Everybody, come on I. 1663 01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:38.239 Venues for the entertainers over there. 1664 01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:40.359 The best day of your career is going to the 1665 01:37:40.479 --> 01:37:41.560 days after you die. 1666 01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:45.880 But oddly, says Amy's mother, Penny, her daughter didn't share 1667 01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:47.239 much else about him. 1668 01:37:47.800 --> 01:37:49.159 And why do you think that is? 1669 01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:54.800 Well, maybe she was already feeling like he wasn't who 1670 01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:55.640 she thought he was. 1671 01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:01.239 And Penny says her daughter never shared how volatile the 1672 01:38:01.319 --> 01:38:03.479 two year relationship had become. 1673 01:38:04.119 --> 01:38:07.600 She'd gone through quite a bit with Gareth. There was 1674 01:38:07.640 --> 01:38:09.079 a number of police reports. 1675 01:38:08.800 --> 01:38:09.479 That were made. 1676 01:38:09.920 --> 01:38:13.399 Detectives learned that Amy had called police to report several 1677 01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:17.680 violent incidents over the years. She said that on multiple 1678 01:38:17.720 --> 01:38:23.239 occasions Gareth Purshouse had choked, suffocated, and punched her with 1679 01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:27.399 a closed fist, and she even documented her injuries with 1680 01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:33.960 these photos. But Amy's father Tom says Amy didn't share 1681 01:38:34.640 --> 01:38:36.319 just how bad things had gotten. 1682 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:38.319 She didn't go into

details. 1683 01:38:38.600 --> 01:38:42.479 Do you think she just wanted to protect the Tipya. 1684 01:38:42.560 --> 01:38:47.479 After Amy ended the relationship, she took steps to protect herself, 1685 01:38:47.920 --> 01:38:52.840 obtaining a restraining order against Pearsows in twenty twelve. But 1686 01:38:52.920 --> 01:38:57.119 while she was trying to distance herself from him, Rudy says, 1687 01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:59.720 Parcell's could not let her go. 1688 01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:02.760 He always wanted to get a hold of her. Nice 1689 01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:04.800 to tell him that he should just leave her alone, 1690 01:39:04.960 --> 01:39:07.279 and he wouldn't take no for an answer, and then 1691 01:39:07.359 --> 01:39:08.960 he cut me off. 1692 01:39:10.720 --> 01:39:13.760 In the years after their breakup, Amy told her parents 1693 01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:18.039 that her home was broken into on one occasion, strangely, 1694 01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:22.520 the only things taken were personal photos, and on another 1695 01:39:22.960 --> 01:39:24.960 her computer was wipe clean. 1696 01:39:25.720 --> 01:39:27.640 And did she think it was Gareth? 1697 01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:32.079 She did, yes, but no way approving, no way approving anything. 1698 01:39:32.279 --> 01:39:35.079 Of course, we were worried, but then we also felt like, well, 1699 01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:37.279 she's done with him, it's over. 1700 01:39:38.000 --> 01:39:39.359 And it was never over. 1701 01:39:42.199 --> 01:39:46.359 And Penny says Amy was thriving, getting a degree to 1702 01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:48.159 become a licensed therapist. 1703 01:39:48.439 --> 01:39:48.960 My miss is. 1704 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:51.399 Doctor Amy Harwick, licensed marriage and family. 1705 01:39:51.159 --> 01:39:55.159 Therapistness Amy posted therapy videos on her social media. 1706 01:39:55.880 --> 01:39:57.119 You can seek therapy. 1707 01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:59.880 To address an issue like depression, anxiety, a breakup. 1708 01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.960 You can also seek therapy to be a better you. 1709 01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:07.319 But even as Amy focused on helping others, she couldn't 1710 01:40:07.359 --> 01:40:11.159 quite shake the shadows from her past. She lost a 1711 01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.119 job as a youth counselor. Penny says after a prospective 1712 01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:20.359 employer was anonymously sent nude photos of her. Amy believed 1713 01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:22.199 herself was behind it. 1714 01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:25.600 She was really upset about it, and she wasn't sure 1715 01:40:25.600 --> 01:40:26.680 what she was going to do. 1716 01:40:26.920 --> 01:40:32.399 Despite that obstacle, Amy studied for a PhD in Human sexuality, 1717 01:40:32.960 --> 01:40:37.199 earning the title doctor. She took a special interest in 1718 01:40:37.319 --> 01:40:41.359 marginalized groups, all sex workers and vulnerable women. 1719 01:40:42.039 --> 01:40:45.079 And she doesn't stop. She just keep bounce story book. 1720 01:40:45.199 --> 01:40:45.600 I wrote a. 1721 01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.399 Book called a New Sex Bible for Women's Now. 1722 01:40:47.439 --> 01:40:48.119 She didn't stop. 1723 01:40:48.159 --> 01:40:51.000 She would work with these groups of people that she 1724 01:40:51.079 --> 01:40:54.119 felt were underrepresented and needed help. 1725 01:40:54.560 --> 01:40:56.920 What was doctor Harwick's reputation? 1726 01:40:57.479 --> 01:41:01.880 Doctor Amy Howick had an amazing reputation. I had a 1727 01:41:01.880 --> 01:41:03.920 lot of mutual friends that had seen her. 1728 01:41:04.399 --> 01:41:08.920 Emily sears A model whose grace the cover of Maxim magazine. 1729 01:41:09.199 --> 01:41:14.239 First started seeing doctor Amy Harwick in twenty seventeen in 1730 01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:18.720 part to help her overcome anxiety she had around dating 1731 01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:19.880 and intimacy. 1732 01:41:20.560 --> 01:41:22.119 I felt that she was relatable. 1733 01:41:22.279 --> 01:41:25.520 Well, I didn't know just exactly how relatable it was. 1734 01:41:25.880 --> 01:41:29.000 Even when she opened up to Amy about an abusive 1735 01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:33.439 ex boyfriend who had stoked her. Emily says, Amy never 1736 01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:37.159 told her about her own similar experience. 1737 01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:41.319 And that still is something that I am struggling to 1738 01:41:41.399 --> 01:41:44.199 process knowing that I was sitting across from her and 1739 01:41:44.319 --> 01:41:48.319 she had been through so much that was similar. 1740 01:41:48.640 --> 01:41:52.600 As Amy was helping Emily work through her issues around dating, 1741 01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:55.880 Amy was taking a chance on a new man in 1742 01:41:55.920 --> 01:41:59.880 her own life. Happy Bell Time's Days, Luke Carrey, comedian 1743 01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:03.079 and host of The Price Is Right on CBS. 1744 01:42:03.560 --> 01:42:07.039 She was obviously really beautiful, she was really smart. She 1745 01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:09.640 just wanted to help people, especially women. 1746 01:42:09.960 --> 01:42:13.600 We spoke to Carrie in twenty twenty two. He said 1747 01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:16.800 it wasn't long after meeting Amy at a party that 1748 01:42:16.880 --> 01:42:20.239 he decided she was the one, and. 1749 01:42:19.960 --> 01:42:21.880 I said, if this keeps going the weight it's going, 1750 01:42:21.920 --> 01:42:22.760 I'm going to marry her. 1751 01:42:23.159 --> 01:42:25.359 And what happened what happened was you had to have 1752 01:42:25.359 --> 01:42:28.119 taken her to parents on New Year's even proposing to her. 1753 01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:29.560 She accepted. 1754 01:42:30.119 --> 01:42:33.520 Drew and Amy shared the news on his show soon after. 1755 01:42:33.960 --> 01:42:36.640 I'd like to introduce you to my brand new lovely fiance. 1756 01:42:36.800 --> 01:42:42.479 Amy had no name. But

instead of spending the rest 1757 01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:46.640 of their lives together, later that year, the couple split up. 1758 01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:51.159 How did she take the breakup? She was devastated. 1759 01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:53.520 I mean, she broke it off, and I think that's 1760 01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:56.439 because all fame was getting in the way. 1761 01:42:57.000 --> 01:43:00.840 That's because, as Penny, Amy feared that with the added 1762 01:43:00.920 --> 01:43:04.319 public attention she was getting while on the arm of 1763 01:43:04.319 --> 01:43:08.880 a celebrity, she could be putting herself in danger. 1764 01:43:09.279 --> 01:43:33.399 You know who was watching, and it made her worry. 1765 01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:41.319 It hit hard a lot off to Amy paust in 1766 01:43:41.399 --> 01:43:42.319 the way that she did. 1767 01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:47.199 How dangerous it really is for women. 1768 01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:51.880 Emily Sears, one of Amy Harwick's therapy clients, was shaken 1769 01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:53.359 by the news of her death. 1770 01:43:54.039 --> 01:43:55.640 The reality is we're not safe. 1771 01:43:55.880 --> 01:43:58.680 Nobody is in dealing with some domestic violence. Because this 1772 01:43:58.760 --> 01:44:01.279 was a bit different because the way Gareth Pursouse acted 1773 01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.640 in this case was more methodical. 1774 01:44:04.479 --> 01:44:08.119 When Deputy District Attorney Victor Avla took on the case. 1775 01:44:08.600 --> 01:44:12.199 He was particularly troubled by evidence that Purceouse had broken 1776 01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:16.039 into Amy's house, hoping to catch her off guard when 1777 01:44:16.159 --> 01:44:17.239 she arrived home. 1778 01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:19.640 And that's at the point that we decided to charge 1779 01:44:19.880 --> 01:44:22.600 not only the murder charge, also the special circumstance of 1780 01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:25.159 lying and wait. These are the crime scene notes. 1781 01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:30.039 Avla, along with his co counsul Deputy District Attorney Catherine Mariano, 1782 01:44:30.560 --> 01:44:35.359 reviewed surveillance, in body camera video, interviews with Amy's family 1783 01:44:35.439 --> 01:44:39.720 and friends, and compiled a timeline of the events leading 1784 01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:40.720 up to the murder. 1785 01:44:41.159 --> 01:44:44.840 Became very clear to me that his obsessions drove his 1786 01:44:45.079 --> 01:44:46.119 intent to kill her. 1787 01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:53.199 They believe that Parsous's obsession with Amy was ignited when 1788 01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:56.159 he saw her at this award show about a month 1789 01:44:56.239 --> 01:45:01.079 before her murder. It was a chance encounter working the 1790 01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:05.760 gig as a photographer. Amy smiling for the cameras, enjoying 1791 01:45:05.800 --> 01:45:10.760 the limelight, but moments earlier, off camera, witnesses say an 1792 01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:15.600 angry HER's house confronted her. Penny Harwick recalls Amy telling 1793 01:45:15.640 --> 01:45:18.680 her she hadn't seen him in almost a decade. 1794 01:45:20.439 --> 01:45:22.000 He called her a bitch, and he. 1795 01:45:22.000 --> 01:45:24.199 Told her she ruined his life, and she just told 1796 01:45:24.239 --> 01:45:27.319 me how afraid she was because he was crying and 1797 01:45:27.640 --> 01:45:32.640 causing a huge scene, and she said, mom, I went 1798 01:45:32.680 --> 01:45:33.800 into therapist's mood. 1799 01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:35.399 I just tried to calm him. 1800 01:45:36.439 --> 01:45:40.079 After talking to Garrett for almost an hour, Amy left 1801 01:45:40.119 --> 01:45:42.119 the event very worried. 1802 01:45:43.760 --> 01:45:46.239 Was your reaction, Penny when she was telling you this. 1803 01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:49.199 That's when we talked about security, and she said she 1804 01:45:49.319 --> 01:45:50.720 was going to get pepper spray. 1805 01:45:50.960 --> 01:45:53.640 We decided to start sharing locations so I could track 1806 01:45:53.680 --> 01:45:54.399 where she was. 1807 01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:58.279 Her close friend, Robert Caslin, says that sharing her phone's 1808 01:45:58.279 --> 01:46:01.479 location was one of the few things Amy felt she 1809 01:46:01.560 --> 01:46:05.840 could do to feel safe. The restraining order against Pearcews 1810 01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:11.119 had long expired, and because Parcels hadn't expressly threatened her, 1811 01:46:11.640 --> 01:46:14.840 Robert says, she didn't think going to police would help. 1812 01:46:15.399 --> 01:46:19.079 Stilly says Amy was very concerned. 1813 01:46:19.640 --> 01:46:23.399 That's when she said, look, if something happens to me, 1814 01:46:23.600 --> 01:46:26.319 he did it. She actually said she did. She literally 1815 01:46:26.319 --> 01:46:26.840 said that. 1816 01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.479 She's thinking that he can cause me harm. And the 1817 01:46:29.560 --> 01:46:31.960 very next day he finds her phone on the internet 1818 01:46:31.960 --> 01:46:33.039 and starts texting her. 1819 01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:37.399 Gareth sent Amy a series of texts and later left 1820 01:46:37.439 --> 01:46:39.439 her a tear filled voicemail. 1821 01:46:40.640 --> 01:46:41.680 I hope so. 1822 01:46:41.760 --> 01:46:42.960 Much I need to say. 1823 01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:46.640 Please, give me a chance to just say it. 1824 01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:50.079 Please. 1825 01:46:50.600 --> 01:46:54.560 That's when prosecutors say Amy decided to block his number. 1826 01:46:55.119 --> 01:46:57.199 I believe up until that point he was trying to 1827 01:46:57.239 --> 01:46:59.840 manipulate his way back into her life. At the point 1828 01:47:00.159 --> 01:47:02.520 she made the decision to block him, that was her 1829 01:47:02.600 --> 01:47:03.760 choice and she had that right. 1830 01:47:03.640 --> 01:47:04.079 To do that. 1831 01:47:04.279 -->

01:47:08.199 Prosecutors say Purcell's started to plan to kill Amy on 1832 01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:13.199 Valentine's Day? Was that just a random date? Absolutely not. 1833 01:47:13.399 --> 01:47:15.439 I think he wanted to make a statement by killing her. 1834 01:47:15.439 --> 01:47:18.119 On Valentine's Day. 1835 01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:21.680 On February fourteen, twenty twenty, Amy went out with a 1836 01:47:21.720 --> 01:47:26.720 group of friends around seven pm. Two hours later, say prosecutors, 1837 01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:31.439 surveillance cameras from her next door neighbor's property were activated. 1838 01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:35.000 You get those ring cameras that show a person that 1839 01:47:35.039 --> 01:47:37.479 looks just like Gareth Purshou's with gloves. 1840 01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:41.199 When he first comes into view, he covers the camera 1841 01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:44.680 and when the camera senses no more motion, it shuts 1842 01:47:44.720 --> 01:47:47.560 off and then he hops over the fence. 1843 01:47:47.640 --> 01:47:52.640 Into Amy's yard. Soon after, around nine pm, they believe 1844 01:47:52.760 --> 01:47:55.800 Pearceoll's broke through that French door. 1845 01:47:55.960 --> 01:47:59.239 And that's consistent with Michael Herman. He heard something breaking 1846 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:01.840 upstairs early into Amy, and I think. 1847 01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:04.479 He just got into the house cut himself. I don't 1848 01:48:04.479 --> 01:48:06.840 think he even realized he cut himself. 1849 01:48:06.880 --> 01:48:12.000 Leaving that blood police later found nearby. DNA testing would 1850 01:48:12.039 --> 01:48:19.159 confirm it belonged to Pearsouse, and Detective Masterson says where 1851 01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:24.199 Parsouse went next was revealed by Amy's unmade bed. 1852 01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:27.119 I think he climbed in her bed. He was there 1853 01:48:27.239 --> 01:48:29.199 waiting for her for quite a while. 1854 01:48:29.520 --> 01:48:30.479 How creepy is that? 1855 01:48:31.119 --> 01:48:31.920 Crazy? Creepy? 1856 01:48:34.600 --> 01:48:38.399 That's where Masterson believes Amy found him four hours later, 1857 01:48:38.439 --> 01:48:41.720 when she arrived home a little after one am. 1858 01:48:42.239 --> 01:48:45.239 She walks into her bedroom and I think she just 1859 01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:48.680 froze and shock and fear. And the one thing that 1860 01:48:48.760 --> 01:48:50.560 was on the bed was her phone, so I think 1861 01:48:50.600 --> 01:48:53.920 she actually threw her phone at him and turned and 1862 01:48:53.960 --> 01:48:57.439 started to run out of the bedroom. And she's screaming, 1863 01:48:58.159 --> 01:48:59.800 and they're fighting and they're wrestling. 1864 01:49:00.479 --> 01:49:02.800 How hard did Amy fight for her life? 1865 01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:04.560 I think she fought with everything she had. 1866 01:49:04.760 --> 01:49:07.039 He had something that appeared to look like a bitemark 1867 01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:08.359 on his bicep. 1868 01:49:08.279 --> 01:49:11.560 And Purcell's also had that black eye. 1869 01:49:11.800 --> 01:49:14.479 To us, it was indicative of Amy fighting for her life, 1870 01:49:14.479 --> 01:49:18.800 but she was obviously up against a much bigger, stronger opponent. 1871 01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:24.079 Prosecutors believe Purcells started choking Amy and that's when Michael 1872 01:49:24.119 --> 01:49:28.359 Herman yell. They believe, catching Purcell's by surprise. 1873 01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:32.039 And I think that plan was definitely thwarted by the 1874 01:49:32.319 --> 01:49:35.680 unbeknownst presence of Michael Herman there. I just don't believe 1875 01:49:35.960 --> 01:49:37.880 that he even knew that somebody was home. 1876 01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:42.159 In his panic. They believe Pursoll's dropped that syringe police 1877 01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:46.039 found on the balcony. It was months before lab test 1878 01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:50.479 revealed what it contained liquid nicotine. 1879 01:49:50.359 --> 01:49:54.039 A toxic poison that if injected into someone, it would 1880 01:49:54.119 --> 01:49:54.520 kill them. 1881 01:49:54.600 --> 01:49:55.760 Why kill her that way? 1882 01:49:56.119 --> 01:49:59.119 I mean with that lethodosa nicotine, people may not know 1883 01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:01.239 what killed her, It may not be detected. 1884 01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.840 With his original plan interrupted, Prosecutors believe that Purcehouse carried Amy, 1885 01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:14.119 barely conscious after being strangled to the third story balcony. 1886 01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.880 He lifts her right over the rail and then drops 1887 01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:18.000 her to kill her. 1888 01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:22.079 Gareth Purshouse is caught on the neighbor's camera hopping back 1889 01:50:22.239 --> 01:50:29.199 over the fence with their suspect and theory of the crime. 1890 01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:34.520 The prosecutors were ready for trial, but they were surprised 1891 01:50:34.560 --> 01:50:52.399 by Gareth Purshouse's defense blaming Amy for what happened that night. 1892 01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:57.680 In August twenty twenty three, more than three years after 1893 01:50:57.720 --> 01:51:02.840 Amy Harwick's death, her acute killer, Gareth Purshouse, went on trial. 1894 01:51:03.279 --> 01:51:06.800 I almost didn't recognize him. 1895 01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:12.239 In their opening statements, prosecutors Victor Avela and Catherine Mariano 1896 01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:17.680 told jurors why and how they believe Purcehouse ended Amy's life. 1897 01:51:18.039 --> 01:51:22.960 In the early morning of February fifteenth, twenty twenty, Amy. 1898 01:51:22.800 --> 01:51:29.000 Harwicks was murdered by defendant Garret Purshouse because he was probsessful, 1899 01:51:30.439 --> 01:51:34.920 he rifted her over the balcony and dropped. 1900 01:51:34.600 --> 01:51:35.479 Her through her

head. 1901 01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:40.199 I just pray that Amy was unconscious when she was 1902 01:51:40.479 --> 01:51:41.800 when she went over the balcony. 1903 01:51:43.479 --> 01:51:46.600 Tom and Penny sat through every second of the trial, 1904 01:51:47.000 --> 01:51:49.199 even the most graphic moments. 1905 01:51:49.520 --> 01:51:51.960 I need to know what happened to my daughter, and 1906 01:51:52.119 --> 01:51:54.359 we wanted to be there for Amy yea through the 1907 01:51:54.359 --> 01:51:54.960 whole ordeal. 1908 01:51:55.439 --> 01:51:59.079 But the Harwicks were not alone. Also in the courtroom 1909 01:51:59.279 --> 01:52:04.000 a small arm army of Amy's friends, including Rudy Torres. 1910 01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:06.520 This is the last thing I could ever do for her. 1911 01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:12.640 Although fortified by her friends, nothing could prepare the Harwicks 1912 01:52:12.680 --> 01:52:17.600 to hear for the first time ever, Gareth Parcehouse's explanation 1913 01:52:18.119 --> 01:52:23.560 about what happened the night Amy died. Defense attorney Evan 1914 01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:28.159 Franzl claims that running into Amy in January twenty twenty 1915 01:52:28.199 --> 01:52:32.039 at that award show had sent purce House into quote 1916 01:52:32.399 --> 01:52:37.319 a deep, debilitating depression unquote, and the only way out 1917 01:52:37.319 --> 01:52:41.079 of it was to talk to Amy on Valentine's Day 1918 01:52:41.199 --> 01:52:42.119 twenty twenty. 1919 01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:45.159 His only intention that I was to speak to her. 1920 01:52:45.680 --> 01:52:50.000 What was your reaction to that? To put it bluntly, 1921 01:52:50.800 --> 01:52:52.840 they're making up stories because they have no defense. 1922 01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:57.359 And as for that nicotine filled syringe found at the 1923 01:52:57.399 --> 01:53:03.119 crime scene, purce House's defensive attorney says, it wasn't for Amy. 1924 01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.239 Why didn't he No, he was on a mission to 1925 01:53:08.319 --> 01:53:08.640 kill her. 1926 01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:11.079 He was wearing gloves when he went there. He covered 1927 01:53:11.119 --> 01:53:12.960 up the cameras. What's the purpose in doing all that 1928 01:53:13.000 --> 01:53:16.840 if you're going to kill yourself there in front of her? 1929 01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:20.039 The defense tells the jurors they will hear from an 1930 01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:24.479 accident reconstructionist who will show that Amy fell on her own. 1931 01:53:24.920 --> 01:53:29.439 Defense attorney Franzel then shows the jury two images, a 1932 01:53:29.479 --> 01:53:34.439 screenshot of the reconstruction showing an animated figure hanging from 1933 01:53:34.439 --> 01:53:39.079 the balcony and an undated photo of Amy posing on 1934 01:53:39.279 --> 01:53:41.079 top of a balcony railing. 1935 01:53:41.760 --> 01:53:43.600 You'll see that she. 1936 01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.720 Had a certain comfort level with the balcony. 1937 01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:50.800 Rate beautiful young lady, wasn't she? She looked glorious. What 1938 01:53:51.000 --> 01:53:51.720 was your reaction? 1939 01:53:52.560 --> 01:53:53.199 Ridiculous? 1940 01:53:54.520 --> 01:53:56.760 I couldn't take it seriously. It was just so far 1941 01:53:56.840 --> 01:53:57.640 fetched to me. 1942 01:53:59.119 --> 01:54:03.000 He's been strangled, she's debilitated, So for her to then 1943 01:54:03.119 --> 01:54:06.079 walk climb over a three foot rail do all that, 1944 01:54:06.439 --> 01:54:09.199 it doesn't seem reasonable. It seems actually unreasonable. 1945 01:54:09.520 --> 01:54:13.680 The defense's opening concludes with this damning admission. 1946 01:54:14.159 --> 01:54:17.279 Yes, Gareth first House was leaning in her home. 1947 01:54:18.159 --> 01:54:19.399 He broke into her home. 1948 01:54:19.640 --> 01:54:20.720 Had he not been. 1949 01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:23.359 There, she wouldn't die hast. 1950 01:54:24.239 --> 01:54:26.159 That is not in dispute. 1951 01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:31.520 He set a chance of actions into motives that led 1952 01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:32.640 to her death. 1953 01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:38.439 But the evidence will show that he never intended I'm killing. 1954 01:54:40.720 --> 01:54:44.520 Over the course of ten days, the prosecution presented its 1955 01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:48.399 evidence to prove that Gareth pears House did intend to 1956 01:54:48.479 --> 01:54:52.960 kill Amy Harwick. Dozens of witnesses testified for the state, 1957 01:54:53.600 --> 01:55:01.439 including Detective Master said now retired Robert Koshlin, My, and 1958 01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:06.319 of course Amy's roommate Michael Herman, the man who heard 1959 01:55:06.399 --> 01:55:10.159 it all. Michael described for the jury how after that 1960 01:55:10.399 --> 01:55:14.399 incident on the red carpet, Amy had been concerned about 1961 01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:18.479 those French doors that Pursouse would later use to break 1962 01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:19.399 into her home. 1963 01:55:20.039 --> 01:55:22.560 Amy had met with a handyman. 1964 01:55:22.920 --> 01:55:27.560 I remember they were over by the glass stores and 1965 01:55:27.680 --> 01:55:30.279 Amy was pointing it out and telling him we need 1966 01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:30.960 to secure this. 1967 01:55:32.399 --> 01:55:36.479 Prosecutors also played for the jury this tape jail conversation 1968 01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:40.359 between Pursous and his friends after his arrest. 1969 01:55:40.800 --> 01:55:43.079 I guess I'm officially a bad boy, now right, I've 1970 01:55:43.119 --> 01:55:45.520 always been kind of Just. 1971 01:55:45.439 --> 01:55:48.439 A couple of weeks after he's been arrested for murder, he's. 1972 01:55:48.319 --> 01:55:49.319 Laughing with his friends. 1973 01:55:49.359 --> 01:55:52.880 You never hear any moment of concern for Amy during 1974 01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:53.399 that call. 1975 01:55:53.760 -->

01:55:55.880 Yeah, so it's not great. 1976 01:55:57.600 --> 01:55:58.640 I'm not getting out of here. 1977 01:55:58.800 --> 01:56:00.000 Why was that important? 1978 01:56:00.279 --> 01:56:03.039 I think that's one piece of evidence to show a 1979 01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.039 consciousness of guilt, so he knows what's coming. Because the 1980 01:56:06.079 --> 01:56:08.439 evidence shows what he did, it proves what he did. 1981 01:56:09.640 --> 01:56:12.560 When it was the defense's turn to present its case 1982 01:56:12.720 --> 01:56:16.000 and call its expert witness to show how Amy's fall 1983 01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:21.000 from the balcony was an accident. The defense suddenly rested 1984 01:56:21.359 --> 01:56:26.239 without calling a single witness. Didn't that hurt the defense? 1985 01:56:26.680 --> 01:56:29.439 I am sure some jurors were wondering what happened, so 1986 01:56:29.720 --> 01:56:30.600 I don't think that helps. 1987 01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:36.239 During closing arguments, defense attorney Robin Bernstein leve presented a 1988 01:56:36.319 --> 01:56:40.239 new theory of what happened that night that Amy may 1989 01:56:40.239 --> 01:56:41.840 have attacked person house. 1990 01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:48.000 We don't know who initiated the physical confrontation. 1991 01:56:49.680 --> 01:56:52.960 It is just as likely, if not likelier, she. 1992 01:56:53.039 --> 01:56:59.199 Preemptively attacked Gareth Purshouse in order to subdue him because 1993 01:56:59.359 --> 01:57:00.520 she was afraid of him. 1994 01:57:01.520 --> 01:57:03.479 You see that all the time, don't you. A one 1995 01:57:03.600 --> 01:57:06.199 hundred and fifteen pound lady picking a fight with a 1996 01:57:06.199 --> 01:57:08.800 two hundred and thirty pound, six foot four man just 1997 01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:10.079 preposteros on its face? 1998 01:57:10.239 --> 01:57:11.319 Did that make you mad? 1999 01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:12.039 Oh? 2000 01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:16.119 Took all my willpower just stay in that seat to 2001 01:57:16.199 --> 01:57:17.119 keep my mouth shut. 2002 01:57:17.600 --> 01:57:22.199 During the state's closing arguments, it's Amy Harwick who has 2003 01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:27.279 the last word, with Prosecutor Mariano, reading from an email 2004 01:57:27.520 --> 01:57:32.159 Amy wrote to herself hours after her January twenty twenty 2005 01:57:32.319 --> 01:57:34.840 encounter with herself and night. 2006 01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:38.760 I felt very scary here behind me started screen. 2007 01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:41.079 I'm pretty nervous that I'm more on his radar now. 2008 01:57:41.399 --> 01:57:44.319 It terrifies me that he's obsessed with me for nine years, 2009 01:57:44.840 --> 01:57:47.920 thinks about me every day. He's focused on harming me. 2010 01:57:50.079 --> 01:57:53.279 That's the closest we've ever had to a victim testifying 2011 01:57:53.279 --> 01:57:56.800 in their murder. I thought it was extremely devastating. 2012 01:57:57.920 --> 01:58:02.560 Jurors had three choices, murder in the first degree, murder 2013 01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:07.199 in the second, or the lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter. 2014 01:58:07.600 --> 01:58:10.600 When it came time for deliberation, I think we all 2015 01:58:10.640 --> 01:58:13.800 thought it would be rather quick. Day one went by nothing. 2016 01:58:13.960 --> 01:58:16.279 I started getting a little worried im thinking what could 2017 01:58:16.279 --> 01:58:19.119 they be debating about. 2018 01:58:36.880 --> 01:58:41.960 I felt nervous because you never know. As jurors met 2019 01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:45.760 for a second day to decide Gareth Purshouse's fate, the 2020 01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:49.560 waiting for a verdict began to weigh heavily on the prosecution. 2021 01:58:50.000 --> 01:58:52.399 It's incredibly nerve wracking. The weight is the worst part, 2022 01:58:52.680 --> 01:58:56.039 and on Amy Harwick's friends and family. 2023 01:58:56.039 --> 01:59:00.079 And all you hear is just like a symphony of 2024 01:59:00.079 --> 01:59:02.520 of anxious bellies, just girl. 2025 01:59:04.079 --> 01:59:05.880 So everybody's nervous. 2026 01:59:05.399 --> 01:59:08.439 But as court was about to adjourn, we were. 2027 01:59:08.319 --> 01:59:11.520 Walking out of the courthouse and Rudy called down and said, 2028 01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:12.479 everybody get up here. 2029 01:59:12.560 --> 01:59:14.880 There's a verdict, has. 2030 01:59:14.720 --> 01:59:16.880 A crack that the jury has a verd You're gonna 2031 01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:18.159 have the verdict formed over the bay. 2032 01:59:18.319 --> 01:59:22.079 Please with the jury the moves out of actually fighting defendant. 2033 01:59:22.159 --> 01:59:22.960 You're with pursous. 2034 01:59:23.239 --> 01:59:28.760 He'll have the first degree Gareth Purcehou's guilty of first 2035 01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:33.279 degree murder with a special circumstance of line in Wait. 2036 01:59:33.800 --> 01:59:35.880 What did you feel at that moment? 2037 01:59:36.039 --> 01:59:40.479 A huge, huge relief. I just started crying and I 2038 01:59:40.520 --> 01:59:46.199 couldn't stop. It was like, whew, finally, after all this time, 2039 01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:49.119 he's going to be held accountable for what he did. 2040 01:59:50.920 --> 01:59:55.079 Two months later, Purshouse was sentenced to life in prison 2041 01:59:55.560 --> 02:00:07.159 without prole He didn't say a word. Amy's friend Robert Coslin. 2042 02:00:07.800 --> 02:00:12.439 Justice was rendered and that's good. But we shouldn't be 2043 02:00:12.560 --> 02:00:14.840 here at all. This should never have happened to begin with. 2044 02:00:14.880 --> 02:00:17.119 The whole in our lives remains. 2045 02:00:17.279 --> 02:00:21.239 He's impacted so many people with his actions, so many people. 2046 02:00:21.439 --> 02:00:23.239 He devastated our family. 2047 02:00:27.039 --> 02:00:31.600 A family that has grown. After the verdict, Tom

gathered 2048 02:00:31.680 --> 02:00:35.560 Amy's friends, the ones who have stood by them every 2049 02:00:35.680 --> 02:00:36.960 step of this journey. 2050 02:00:37.439 --> 02:00:42.880 I said, you're not our friends, your family. You're really 2051 02:00:43.439 --> 02:00:45.079 happy become our family. 2052 02:00:46.359 --> 02:00:49.239 Could you have gotten through this without them? I don't 2053 02:00:49.279 --> 02:00:51.840 think so. 2054 02:00:53.000 --> 02:00:57.079 It's a testament to the amazing life and community Amy 2055 02:00:57.159 --> 02:00:58.159 Harwick created. 2056 02:00:58.800 --> 02:01:01.119 She was really happy. 2057 02:01:01.359 --> 02:01:05.039 She was really happy that she had really gotten her 2058 02:01:05.119 --> 02:01:05.800 life together. 2059 02:01:07.039 --> 02:01:08.520 Man, we were all happy. 2060 02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:15.520 Michael Herman says he still keeps replaying that night. 2061 02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:20.720 She's gone and I'm still here. You won a second chance. 2062 02:01:20.760 --> 02:01:22.000 I'm still trying to save her. 2063 02:01:22.600 --> 02:01:26.399 Michael Herman has a lot of survivor's guilt. Oh my goodness, 2064 02:01:26.760 --> 02:01:27.920 did the exact right thing. 2065 02:01:28.279 --> 02:01:29.680 He made all the right decisions. 2066 02:01:29.960 --> 02:01:34.840 Do you feel your sister got justice. 2067 02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:35.840 I feel she did. 2068 02:01:36.119 --> 02:01:38.600 Amy's brother Chris. 2069 02:01:38.479 --> 02:01:40.760 We wish that she still could be here at it 2070 02:01:41.319 --> 02:01:44.000 to continue to help people, because that's what she's all about. 2071 02:01:46.319 --> 02:01:52.000 We lost a friend, but so many other people lost 2072 02:01:52.079 --> 02:01:52.600 a healer. 2073 02:01:52.840 --> 02:01:57.000 I think if Amy every day because she helped me 2074 02:01:57.079 --> 02:01:57.720 so much. 2075 02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:02.079 Emily Sears says she's struggling without Amy's guidance. 2076 02:02:02.720 --> 02:02:05.039 That's just so hard to feel safe when this is 2077 02:02:05.079 --> 02:02:07.720 the reality of what happened to her and what happens 2078 02:02:07.760 --> 02:02:09.119 to so many people. 2079 02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:14.720 Amy's loved ones are hoping to change that reality. After 2080 02:02:14.760 --> 02:02:19.279 her death, the petition was created to rewrite California domestic 2081 02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:25.439 violence laws, including a statute preventing restraining orders from expiring. 2082 02:02:25.840 --> 02:02:29.359 And our biggest disappointment was it lost all its impact 2083 02:02:29.560 --> 02:02:31.319 when code shut everything down. 2084 02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:36.319 Prosecutor Catherine Mariano acknowledges that there are limits to the 2085 02:02:36.439 --> 02:02:37.920 legal system. 2086 02:02:37.840 --> 02:02:39.680 And by the time he gets to our table, we're 2087 02:02:39.720 --> 02:02:43.560 in a position to act reactively rather than proactively. But 2088 02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:46.000 as a society, I think we can always do better. 2089 02:02:46.199 --> 02:02:51.239 Right after the trial, Amy's parents headed home to Pennsylvania, 2090 02:02:51.640 --> 02:02:54.319 the place where they first became a family with their 2091 02:02:54.359 --> 02:02:58.000 little girl and watched her grow into the woman admired 2092 02:02:58.399 --> 02:03:00.520 and now missed by so many. 2093 02:03:00.840 --> 02:03:09.600 What's the hardest part Just the absence, the quiet. 2094 02:03:09.640 --> 02:03:12.520 One huge void, one huge void. 2095 02:03:12.359 --> 02:03:19.800 And I miss our adventures, adventures remembered when they visit 2096 02:03:20.159 --> 02:03:23.960 Amy's grave, and I couldn't get a brighter orange. 2097 02:03:25.520 --> 02:03:28.119 I know orange was your favorite color, but this is 2098 02:03:28.159 --> 02:03:30.439 the closest I could get. We're not the same people 2099 02:03:30.479 --> 02:03:33.319 we were before, but we keep trying to be. 2100 02:03:34.199 --> 02:03:35.319 We miss you Amy. 2101 02:03:37.159 --> 02:03:38.840 Every day, We think of you. 2102 02:03:39.720 --> 02:03:41.760 Anything you wish you had been able to say to. 2103 02:03:41.720 --> 02:03:44.079 Her, just to tell her one more time that I 2104 02:03:44.199 --> 02:03:48.399 love her. I know she knew it, but I wanted 2105 02:03:48.439 --> 02:03:51.479 to be able to say it. 2106 02:04:11.880 --> 02:04:15.800 New CBS Next, a young teenager is strangled and buried alive, 2107 02:04:16.039 --> 02:04:19.840 absolutely cold blooded. Twenty years later, her family battles to 2108 02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:21.479 keep her killers behind bars. 2109 02:04:21.640 --> 02:04:22.560 We're fighting for her. 2110 02:04:22.680 --> 02:04:23.520 That's why we're here. 2111 02:04:23.960 --> 02:04:26.359 She doesn't have a voice, so we're her voice. 2112 02:04:26.800 --> 02:04:30.159 Forty eight hours is all New CBS Next and streaming 2113 02:04:30.199 --> 02:04:35.319 on Paramount Plus.