15 - TruCannabis: When a Grow House Becomes a Hazard의 전체 녹취록

into that, I want to ask the initial question is it marijuana or cannabis? 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.039 What is the term and is there a difference between the two? 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:32.240 So marijuana is a legal word, um, hemp is a legal word, and cannabis is a scientific name for the plant. 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:35.439 El cannabis sativa is the actual scientific name. 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:44.400 So I like to, if we stick to science, we can end some of the confusion and the and the chaos uh that that's happening in that space. 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:51.280 So we should refer to as cannabis properly, but uh it's also synonymous with marijuana. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:03:02.960 Yeah, so the legal definition of marijuana is a cannabis plant that has more than 0.3 milligrams of delta-9 tetrahydrokinem THC. 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:04.240 We'll just call it THC. 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:04.960 How about that? 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:13.919 And um hemp is any cannabis plant with uh less than 0.3 milligrams of delta-9 THC. 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:22.960 So the common element there is you've got cannabis, but if cannabis has enough of the narcotic in it, then it becomes marijuana or referred to it as marijuana legally. 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.800 If it doesn't have enough, then you make ropes out of it basically with hemp. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:31.919 As of today, now the the the laws are changing very rapidly. 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:35.759 As of right now, as we record this, that's the current state of the law. 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:36.800 Right, absolutely. 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:43.840 I think it's I think it's worth sharing with our listeners that we actually recorded this episode already uh previously. 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.439 So this is our second shot at it, and bless you, Mike, for joining us. 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:59.759 And the first time we recorded it, Mike and I recorded, we had an uh an audio glitch that's causing us to re-record, but no sooner did Mike and I finish recording that what was that, about a month and a half ago, a month and a half ago. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.439 They rescheduled marijuana. 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:07.599 They rescheduled, so in other words, we walked out of our offices and we're like, hey, I feel like that was a pretty good episode we just recorded there. 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.960 And Mike and I were immediately like, are you kidding me? 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:21.920 I think I went back and saw like a Google alert that the federal government had looked at rescheduling or did reschedule uh marijuana on the federal scheduling, like five minutes. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.959 So our episode ended up being completely irrelevant. 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:31.360 Uh, and as much frustration as that is, this is actually that audio thing turned out to be a blessing in disguise. 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:36.319 So, okay, so marijuana, we've got this a lot to talk about there, Mike. 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:42.480

And when we talk about code enforcement and marijuana or cannabis, why are the two related? 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.720 Why is code enforcement involved in the cannabis uh business? 00:04:47.120 --> 00:05:02.560 Well, I think as attitudes relax a little bit on it and um it's kind of decriminalization um uh and licensing, it's becoming more of a regulatory thing, which is code enforcement kind of owns the regulatory space. 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:07.360 So there's that, but then all the unlicensed activities are in our neighborhoods. 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:12.399 Uh these are land use violations and there's building code violations that environment. 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.120 So there's a lot of regulatory issues with that. 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:27.040 And then if you want to discourage illegal activity, um it's important to note that cultivating 10,000 marijuana plants illegally without a license is a misdemeanor. 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:32.879 So that's not really enough of a penalty to discourage that kind of uh illegal behavior. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:41.920 So using these regulatory tools is uh kind of adds adds to the discouraging people from doing this. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:50.560 One, and and two, it's really about protecting the community from all the collateral damage that that happens from illegal cultivation. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:51.759 And there's a lot. 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:54.560 Yeah, and we're gonna cover all that for sure. 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:02.560 Um, you know, on the back to the misdemeanor thing, so misdemeanors have various levels of impact and utility depending on frankly what county you're in. 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:12.879 And, you know, take an extreme example, LA County, a couple of years ago before it changed the DA, they weren't prosecuting any misdemeanors for anything whatsoever. 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:19.680 And so, you know, even if they're being prosecuted, however, if you're a hardened criminal, it may not have as much of an impact. 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:21.600 Is that kind of what we're getting at there, Mike? 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:22.079 Right. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:22.879 You're you're right. 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:37.600 If if you're lucky enough, if if the prosecutor will file charges, you still have uh a penalty that is really not uh anything meaningful to somebody who's done time in a Russian prison. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.360 They could really care less about a California misdemeanor. 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:42.480 Yeah, for sure. 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:44.319 That that can definitely be an issue. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:50.240 Um now marijuana, I mean, gosh, what a what a history marijuana's had. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:07:01.199 I mean, the old stems and seeds in the 70s and Chichin Chong movies, you know, and up in what up in smoke was one of their movies, uh, Half Baked was a movie later on, a hilarious movie. 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:02.800 Um, why? 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:04.720 I mean, is

marijuana the same now? 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:09.279 Is cannabis the same now as you know, I'm gonna use marijuana because that's the drug side of it. 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:14.240 Is marijuana the same now as it was when like you know, our parents were growing up? 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:36.160 No, uh, there's some studies that are being done on the East Coast um on the concentration um of THD in in marijuana uh and over the years and the concentration, the THC concentration is going up each year, and it's becoming much more potent than it was uh you know 40, 50 years ago. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:47.279 Is is it safe to say that you know, when it comes to illegal marijuana cultivation and dispensaries, they're not selling like the natural organic harvested marijuana by and large. 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.480 This is like chemically created marijuana. 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:52.639 Well, I mean, they're they're growing. 00:07:52.720 --> 00:08:04.560 There is synthetic cannabis, the can cannabinoids, but the you know, the weed that's out there is being grown, but it's being grown using techniques that really amplify the amount of THC that's produced. 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:10.639 And the other thing, they're using fertilizers that have heavy metals in them, and those heavy metals are in the plant. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:19.920 That's so if you're smoking or consuming marijuana, you're you're if you do that on a regular basis, you're gonna have heavy metals in your in your blood. 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:24.000 Uh, and then there's pesticides that are part of the cultivation process. 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:31.199 And those pesticides, some of them are banned um by international treaty and they're extremely dangerous. 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:38.879 They're dangerous on their own, they're dangerous in the environment of you know that is grown in, they're dangerous for you to consume. 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:51.440 And then if you smoke uh cannabis marijuana that has this pesticide residue in it that was part of the growing process, it may chemically change when it's being when the heat is applied to it. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:56.399 So you may get totally something like cyanide or something very dangerous. 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:00.480 Holy cow, cyanide, holy moly, that's that's a big one. 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:05.279 What um god, I mean, if it's banned by international treaty, Mike, what is it doing here? 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:06.320 How is it getting here? 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:08.320 And how is it getting into these products? 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:11.279 A lot of it's coming from China, and it's really interesting. 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.919 You find the pesticide bags are have uh Mandarin writing on them. 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:24.159 And and just a little side note if uh no pesticide is legal in the United States, if there's not a label in English, uh what the contents are. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:37.440 But so they come in from China, and you

can point your phone at it and do Google Translate, um and and you find out what the purported ingredients are, and and these are very dangerous pesticides, not allowed anywhere in the country. 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:50.879 But interesting side note, some of the application instructions on these pesticide bags that are coming in from overseas, it says, and again, this is in Mandarin, it says, apply so much of this pesticide per square foot. 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:58.799 Now, what's what jumps out at you when you hear square foot uh on in Mandarin writing? 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.639 I mean, that makes you wonder where where is this being grown? 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:07.919 And also square foot tells me there's a huge amount being grown, it's not like per plant or something. 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:12.879 Well, yeah, and but uh China's on the metric system and not square feet. 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:13.279 Wow. 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.480 So they're manufacturing this to be applied here. 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.440 Holy cow! Wow, that is interesting. 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.200 And is this stuff just being smuggled into your knowledge? 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:26.240 Yeah, it's not legal in the United States. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:30.480 It's not like the contents are not legal in in many most of the world. 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.360 We're just not catching it uh when it's being brought in. 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.120 And so where are these grows? 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:45.600 I mean, we're talking about grows right now, and you know, well, at some point we may end up talking about dispensaries here, but we're talking about grows because that's the thing that code enforcement is dealing with, finding these illegal grows. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.000 I guess number one, why is a grow a code enforcement issue? 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.840 I'm guessing it's the land use, and no, and I'm not guessing I know it's a land use. 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:56.720 And secondly, um, where are they? 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:02.799 So I you know, I work for a large city, so I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about indoor grows for the most part. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:03.120 Okay. 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:11.360 And I'll talk about outdoor grows a little bit, but my my county code enforcement counterparts probably have a lot more experience dealing with outdoor grows. 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:12.480 We'll talk about it. 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:14.639 But indoor grows are a problem. 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:21.200 Uh, they take over, we have international organized crime groups that will purchase a house. 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:29.440 They are using right now small business uh administration uh pandemic loans as their down payment money. 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:36.159 And um they just convert them to indoor grows, and the entire house is used for cultivation. 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:42.159 Um, we're not talking about growing six plants, we're talking about 800, 900 plants

per house. 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.440 So the entire house is devoted to cultivation. 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:50.320 The house gets destroyed and it becomes an unbelievably dangerous building. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:12:00.080 And then, you know, you've got organized crime next door, and they're blasting the house with nerve agent pesticides in a subdivision neighborhood. 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:04.879 The kind of pesticides you were just talking about getting smuggled into America. 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:05.679 Correct. 00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:20.720 And they're they're uh fumigating the house in a subdivision where another house is maybe 10 feet away next door, uh, and they're using very toxic uh nerve agent pesticides that are illegal in the United States. 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:27.279 They're illegal by international treaty in 163 countries because it's so toxic and so dangerous. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:38.240 All right, so Mike, I mean, you could be a family next door where you're trying to raise your kids, and next to you is a criminal syndicate uh spraying pesticides with hundreds of marijuana plants. 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:42.720 How on earth would a person know this is going on next door? 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.960 Sometimes the neighbors don't know. 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:59.200 Uh the complaint that comes in most often is um the Jones family sold their house and left, and the new buyer bought the house, they did a bunch of remodeling, and they're really never there. 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:05.759 They're extremely quiet neighbors, and somebody comes by every couple days for a few hours and leaves. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:13.679 But it's been wonderful because they're so quiet, and that that's the theme that we the pattern we keep seeing again and again and again. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.240 Wow, it's been wonderful because they're so quiet. 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:29.679 I mean, quiet is great, but it this is a topic we've kind of covered in some of our other episodes here, Mike, and that is the breakdown of the community and the sense of neighbors knowing each other and kind of knowing, frankly, what's going on in their business. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:33.360 You know, now we call them, I think, Karen's, uh, or some people do. 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:34.399 I don't really care for that. 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:40.559 But um, you know, really there was a time where your neighbor being really quiet, not knowing them wasn't a good thing. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:46.879 And maybe that, I don't know, maybe there's an argument that we need to kind of focus on meeting our neighbors just shaking their hands. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.000 So you got these neighbors and they're like, hey, this is great. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.000 Like there's some rando showing up, that's not ideal, but they're not making a lot of noise. 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:55.200 We don't we don't know what's going on. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:56.480 What about all like the venting? 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:59.440 I mean, is there like pesticide stuff coming out the vents at this house? 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.120 Can they smell these things? 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.799 A lot of the times they button the houses up really tight. 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:13.840 And be, you know, one of the things we're looking for is the odor of cannabis, uh, you know, to make our develop our probable cost for a search warrant. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:18.320 And these houses are buttoned up so tight uh that there's not a lot of odor. 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:31.039 And what we find on the remediation side are plastic bags and towels that get stuffed in the uh HVAC vents, the the water pipe, the um the dryer vet. 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:36.320 They're stuffing towels in there or plastic bags to prevent the escape of odors. 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:50.399 And then when they do vent out, they're using charcoal, very sophisticated charcoal filters and ozone generators, too, so that all that's coming out is um deodorized, deodorized exhaust. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:58.559 And they do have to exhaust it because the cannabis plant is putting out oxygen and they got to get that oxygen out of the building. 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.919 They want to put carbon dioxide in the building. 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:08.000 A cannabis plant can grow as much as eight inches per day in a carbon dioxide enriched environment. 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:12.559 So one of the ways they'll boost up carbon dioxide is with compressed tanks. 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:20.720 But what we're seeing is these generators that use they'll do unpermitted natural gas uh line to these generators. 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:25.200 They use heat through a combustion process and they produce uh carbon dioxide. 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:34.960 They get it up to about 1,500 parts per million, and uh the cannabis plant will grow, you know, they'll do from seed to seed to harvest in three months. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.960 So let me get this straight, Mike. 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:42.879 We've got uh we've got a house in a residential area, people unknowingly living nearby. 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:50.159 We've got illegal, internationally illegal pesticides, uh, which are presumably very deadly. 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.480 Then we've got a, by definition, combustible plant. 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.440 I mean, it's designed to burn and be combustible. 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.399 And then you've got things like illegal electrical being done. 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.279 So it takes a hell of a lot of electricity to grow these things. 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:09.039 Then you're pumping in a bunch of uh carbon dioxide, because we all know plants feed on that release oxygen. 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:15.840 And then on top of it, just to top it off, uh, these guys are piping in uh natural gas through illegal piping. 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.960 I mean, isn't this just a recipe for like an explosion?

00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.200 Well, it is for fire, yeah. 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:31.360 And uh there's a study that showed that um marijuana grow houses are 24 times more likely to catch fire than a non-grow house. 00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.080 Uh, Canada's done a number of studies on that. 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:35.919 Canada, really interesting. 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:46.559 Up in British Columbia, they did a the fire department took the lead uh and they got access to BC Hydro's, um, which is that's their socal edicent up there. 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:46.879 Okay. 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:59.200 They got access to the electrical records for the whole community, and they identified 126 properties that had what they deemed unsafe consumption of electricity. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.519 So they made this not a criminal justice thing, but a fire prevention thing. 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:10.000 And they went to those houses and did door knocks to find out why are you using so much electricity? 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:17.519 And of those 126, uh, I forget the exact number, but about 120 were illegal grow houses. 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:18.559 Incredible. 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:19.359 Incredible. 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:31.039 So there are very perhaps markers or indicators to identify broadly where these risks are uh before they do turn from a risk to an actual event. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:31.920 There are. 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:42.000 California law does not allow utilities, for the most part, to share electrical records um with the government without some kind of legal process. 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:46.160 But but the utilities tend to know where these places are. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:46.960 Oh, yeah. 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:55.920 I mean, it's a time-honored uh approach for police officers when looking for a grow back in the day to look for who's using the most electricity. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:04.400 And then I've seen cases where they go get a warrant and they'll look at the heat signature and go, yep, that's consistent with uh my training experience as a marijuana uh grow. 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.799 What about like foiling over the windows? 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.319 I mean, it seemed like that's like an old school way to try to prevent people. 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.359 Is that just too obvious? 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.720 Are they doing that anymore? 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:21.039 So, what they're doing now is they're closing the blinds and they're putting drywall or um OSB board on the opposite side of the blinds. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.119 So all you see from the outside is the blinds are always closed. 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:34.240 Now there'll be foil on the walls and the windows on the inside because they want to bounce all that light uh off the walls and into the plant canopy. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:38.880 But from the outside, all you're seeing is is a house where the blinds are always closed. 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:47.839 So what are what are some of the things that people should be looking out for in their neighborhood that might be indicators of uh the legal marijuana grow? 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.880 Well, if you live next door, it's uh it's like it's a recent transaction. 00:18:53.119 --> 00:19:05.279 Um you know, the the buyer has an unusual interest in the electrical system uh or the size of the house, and it's they don't really have any family explanation for why they want a big house. 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:12.880 Um and then you know, the sale occurs, there's some remodeling, typically without permits, but not always. 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:18.000 And um uh and then they never really move in. 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:33.200 Uh the remodeling with the permits is really interesting because they'll get a they don't get a permit to grow to develop the house into a grow house, but they'll get a permit for something which provides them some cover if an inspector comes over and says, Hey, what are you guys doing? 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:38.480 So, in other words, they're trying to pull that probable cause out from under your feet, so to speak, right? 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.480 By having like, oh no, we're getting permits. 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.880 That's one less thing for them to trigger. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:45.039 I'm I'm removing the patio. 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:54.240 I just bought the house, I'm removing the patio, and I have a permit for the patio, and that's why there's a dumpster here, or that's why there's a bunch of pile of drywall. 00:19:54.480 --> 00:20:00.160 But that that's just the cover permit, and they're the whole house is being remodeled inside. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:09.119 And so, you know, going back to kind of the indicators you mentioned here, you also mentioned that there's often, I think you said like some guy who just shows up every once in a while. 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:10.160 What is that about? 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:36.880 So the farmers will come uh and and do maintenance and check on the the growth of the plants and check the settings of the the equipment that's doing the automatic the lights and and um maybe add fertilizer to the reservoirs and they're just doing farm work and they'll they'll go to their one grow house, they'll be there for a few hours, and then they'll leave and they'll go to another grow house and then keep hitting all the grow houses in the community. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.400 Now you mentioned you refer to them, Mike, as farmers. 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:43.119 I mean, is that kind of like being facetious? 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:51.279 I mean, is this criminal enterprise or are these actual people who are trying to grow marijuana inside a house for some kind of semi-legitimate reason? 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.039 No, there's nothing legit about it. 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:54.559 That's uh that's my invention. 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.160 I just call them farmers. 00:20:56.480 -->

00:21:02.400 Uh there's nothing legit about growing uh 800 marijuana plants inside a single family dwelling. 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:03.599 It's not designed for that. 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.359 The building code has a thing called occupancy classification. 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:10.160 Every building is built for a specific purpose. 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:17.759 A greenhouse is a greenhouse, and a single family dwelling is a single family dwelling, and activity in one doesn't belong in the other. 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.319 Yep. 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:18.799 Yep. 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.839 No, that's a great point. 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.680 I mean, you've got occupancy levels within buildings as well. 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:31.039 And to give people kind of a real life example of why we should care about occupancies, although that sounds pretty abstract. 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.839 Ghost Ship Fire, Oakland, right? 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:39.680 You know, seven years ago, eight years ago, you've got a whole bunch of young folks living in a warehouse. 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:41.359 Well, who's supposed to live in warehouses? 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:41.839 Boxes. 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:42.640 Nobody. 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:44.960 Yeah, nobody, but boxes, right? 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:50.240 They live in, they live there because with the occupancy changes, there's different uh escape routes. 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.960 There's or none, there's different levels of sprinklering. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:53.920 There's all sorts of things. 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:59.759 And in the Oakland case brought home, they had a fire, and of course, all those mechanisms weren't there, and it was a crummy building. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.440 Anyway, and over 30 people died as a result. 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.599 So I think the occupancy stuff really does matter quite a bit. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.880 And the things you do within the building matter quite a bit. 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:17.519 The laws, you know, my experience, and I think we covered this a bit in one of our early episodes about where code enforcement came from. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.160 Code enforcement is almost always born, seeing with building codes, out of tragedy. 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:22.799 Always. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.920 They come from experience. 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.279 We learn it the hard way. 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.279 Number of years later, we forget about it. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.599 We think they're mean, and then we roll back those. 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.119 Tragedy occurs again. 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.759 And then we repeat the cycle over and over again. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:41.920 So to your point about homes aren't for they're for people, not marijuana grows, and uh God forbid both of those at the same time. 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:56.240 You know, occupancy definitely matters, and houses are built, houses are built for people, and the electrical wiring in a house is not designed for the humidity, the moisture that that is produced in a in a marijuana grow. 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:01.440 We're talking, you know, way above sustained and continuous amounts above 50%. 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.079 The electrical wiring is not designed for that. 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.799 The drywall, drywall is meant to be kept well, you know, dry. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:09.200 Yeah. 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:17.119 It's not designed for that kind of humidity, but there's other stuff in the chemicals that they're using are corrosive to copper. 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.039 And then where's copper in a house? 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.119 Well, the electrical wiring is copper. 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:28.319 So are they fixing that stuff up properly if the inspectors are not aware of the grow house? 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:32.960 Or maybe they're not aware of all the processes that are involved in growing marijuana? 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:41.200 So during the marijuana grow lifespan of that situation there, they're growing crops over a number of years until they move out for some reason. 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:46.799 Um, the humidity and the chemicals are actually just corroding the house from within completely. 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:52.640 So assuming the wire stays intact and doesn't blow a fuse, then maybe they move out. 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:53.279 What happens? 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:54.799 What happens when they move out of this place? 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.640 Is it clean and some family moves in? 00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:58.400 Or I uh what happens? 00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.359 What's the risk? 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:08.720 Yeah, so if inspectors don't catch it, then they're just gonna do what um what my inspector partner calls uh candy coated turd. 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:09.440 Yep. 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:09.759 Yep. 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:11.519 Or lipstick on a pig, yeah. 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:24.000 They're gonna put lipstick on a pig and they're gonna do the bare minimum repairs that are necessary to sell this house to some unsuspecting victim, no disclosures about what occurred inside this house. 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:31.119 And those repairs are not gonna properly restore that house to a basic safe level. 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:43.119 Now, even when inspectors are involved, there's differences across the state about uh what building inspectors or when why code enforcement is requiring of property owners to fix these houses up. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:25:02.079 If a building inspector or code enforcement officer is not familiar with how marijuana is grown indoors and the processes and the chemicals, and you're not staying up to date on what the latest trends are with the pesticides, you don't really know what to tell the property owner to do to make that house safe. 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:02.880 Right? 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.759 Absolutely. 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:12.720 So,

what would be your tip or your advice to cities uh dealing with well, every city presumably is dealing with some kind of cannabis grow, whether they know it or not? 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.240 What would be your message to them? 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:15.680 Well, they should take my class. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:28.640 Pardon the pardon the uh plug there, but uh we have a class on that we've developed on this because we my uh city allowed me to do a super deep dive into this topic and learn everything there's to learn about it. 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:39.440 And uh we use taxpayer dollars to buy books on how to grow marijuana so that we can reverse engineer it um on on how they're doing this inside the houses. 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.279 And then we do a lot of uh cross-disciplinary training. 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:58.000 So we'll go to conferences with the EPA to track the pesticide issues, and we'll go to the California Narcotic Officers Conference and and learn about those trends, and then then you have a much broader picture of the problem. 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:04.720 Um, and then you know, we went and talked to the building industry association and the drywall manufacturer. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:12.640 So I told the drywall manuf uh industry, which is the the gypsum association, hey, this is what we're seeing inside these grow houses. 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.400 Uh, what do you think about that? 00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:28.000 And their response is our products are not designed for that, our products are not designed for um that amount of sustained and continuous moisture, uh, and that that'll promote microbiome uh growth. 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:41.920 Um, and also you should know that drywall is actually porous and it's um sucking up all those pesticides and sucking up all the THC odor that's gonna off-gas later on. 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:52.160 So, people, in other words, off-gas meaning people are living in there, it's now releasing this stuff back into their um probably everything in their house, right? 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.119 So you're getting blasted with nerve agents. 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.160 Stunning. 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.359 Some of these nerve agents have a 14-year half-life. 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:00.240 Incredible. 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:01.680 14-year half-life. 00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:11.200 What do you what do you do with a building materials that are contaminated with nerve agents that are banned in 163 countries that has a 14-year half-life? 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:12.720 What do you do with that house? 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.200 What do you do with the occupants of that house? 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:31.039 And God forbid, these houses that we don't even know about, that they did their grow, they did, you know, three or four harvest, and then they sell it to some innocent family, and the city government didn't even know about it, didn't even have an opportunity to fix it up. 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:32.640 Absolutely. 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.160 So I guess that begs the question. 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.359 You get you get tipped on to one of these places, you get in. 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:38.480 What do you do about it? 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:44.960 How do you abate these kind of issues and deal with them uh after you've gotten rid of the marijuana grow? 00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:58.400 So once the marijuana is removed, we do our inspection at the same time, usually, uh, or maybe sometimes the day after, but typically our inspection is going to be the same day as a search warrant because the evidence is perishable. 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:06.960 Once the growers have been discovered, the clock, their clock starts with it's time to fix this house up and sell it to some victim. 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:14.480 And we want to, we mean the growers, yeah, they want to conceal any defects to the building. 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:25.119 They don't want the inspectors to find it because if we find it, the city officials, we're gonna force them to fix it correctly, not their own, their own way. 00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:36.000 And you're gonna hold up the sale, and these guys need those hundreds and hundreds of thousands, maybe even a million plus, depending on the size of the building, uh, dollars to go then flip into another one to do this with, right? 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:44.240 Once that grow is busted, that house has no value to them other than it's then the sale, but they can't grow in it anymore, so they just need to sell it. 00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:45.599 Get their money out, yeah. 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:59.200 You what you want to do is the government is you don't want them selling that house until they properly fix it up so that they're not victimizing the next, they're not victimizing the whole neighborhood, they're not victimizing uh the next buyer of that house. 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:08.880 So um, you know, we go turn back to the codes, and there's not really a very good roadmap for remediation of former grow houses. 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:10.960 Why is there not a good roadmap? 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.680 Because why would somebody do this to a house? 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.000 There's not a house intended for this. 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:25.119 But, you know, we do have some technical bulletins from the drywall industry association that says if there's any doubt about drywall getting wet, uh it needs to be removed. 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:29.839 Well, we know from the books we've read on how marijuana's grow that produce a lot of moisture. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:40.960 We know from studies that were done in Canada that the there's always uh water damage because it uh the again, these products, these building products are not made for that amount of moisture. 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:42.880 So the drywall has to come off. 00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:50.640 The drywall also has to come off because we got to look at the electrical wiring

for the corrosion and the damage and the tampering. 00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:04.319 Uh and then uh if if your jurisdictions adopted the IPMC, the IPMC says that any electrical wiring that's been exposed to wet or damp conditions is not designed for that, has to be ripped and replaced. 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.160 There is an exception. 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:14.960 It does say if the manufacturer can come out and look at the equipment and certify that um it's safe, then it can stay. 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:21.039 So if if you can get the manufacturer to come out and certify that this electrical wire is safe, well then you can keep it. 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.680 But otherwise, otherwise, yeah, sorry. 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:28.640 Otherwise, you're taking a building down to the studs, it sounds like correct. 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.599 Wow, and you're ripping out these illegal gas lines or putting in. 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:41.519 I mean, it's really are there cases where taking it down the studs isn't enough because it's actually I mean, wood is porous, it's got into the wood. 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.359 Um we worry about that. 00:30:45.839 --> 00:31:02.319 So one of the things that the property owner has to do uh as in our local clearance process is to get a certified industrial hygienist and they have to do a battery test on the house and give us the report that shows that they've they've cleared these hurdles. 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:08.799 That's not um that's not perfect, but that's kind of the best we can do uh right now. 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:11.920 Here the problem is that this is not a legit business. 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.759 You can't go to them and go, right, please tell me what you did. 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.240 Please tell me what chemicals you use. 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.920 They're not gonna tell you it's a it's a hide-and-seek game. 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.279 So you have to go find these violations and figure this out. 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.279 Um are they even around? 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:28.880 I mean, what are the chances? 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:33.920 What what's the success rate, Mike, of actually getting them to hire a hygienist? 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:38.400 What's the success rate in getting them to rip out the drywall or do anything at that point? 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:41.599 Well, you lock the house down uh until they do it. 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:44.000 So uh you cloud title. 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:53.279 Uh there are people that have sold houses, but you know, once we cloud title, you know, our require whoever buys that house is also buying our requirements. 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:53.759 Yeah. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:00.319 And that house is red tagged or yellow tagged and not occupancy prohibited until those things are done. 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:08.400 When we find dangerous electrical wiring, we contact the electrical utility and we order the electrical utility disconnected. 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.960 And the the that's not get they don't get that back until that's all fixed up. 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:23.200 When we find unpermitted natural gas lines that are powering these um natural gas generators, the carbon dioxide generators, excuse me, um, will turn their gas off. 00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:23.920 Same thing. 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:31.200 And they don't get that back until they've fixed up and removed all the unpermitted gas lines and they pass a gas pressure test. 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.880 So that's not perfect. 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:38.640 There are been people that were successfully able to wholesale their houses to cash buyers. 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:45.599 Um, but we've clouded title and and we've just whoever the new owner is is now stuck with with fixing those things. 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.720 Yeah, it's the old caveat mTOR, the old buyer beware. 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:57.440 I mean, if it sounds too good to be true, or you're wholesaling a house or you're paying all cash for a house, just you better be really, really careful and do your diligence on that. 00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:07.039 But so I get the concept from a code enforcement strategic approach, I guess, of locking it down, lockdown title, red tag it, just stop it from continuing to do its thing illegally. 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:08.559 But what do you do? 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:11.519 I mean, we can't just sit around and wait because there is off-gassing. 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:18.079 In other words, the gas that's in the pesticides that have been kind of packed into the walls and the drywall is coming back out. 00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.599 So, and now we know about it. 00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:32.960 So, what happens in those situations where, and just to be clear, where this owner, which sounds like a criminal enterprise most of the time, is simply not doing anything and the property isn't selling because it's locked down, still got off-gassing at a risk to neighbors. 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:33.920 What do we do? 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.200 Well, grow houses are great receivership cases. 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:47.519 Like one receivership is a perfect tool, yeah, almost perfect tool for dealing with a grow house because uh, and I wish we could do it all the time. 00:33:47.680 --> 00:34:05.440 We just don't have the money, but perfect thing with a with the when you get the receiver, now you have a cooperative person who's not involved in criminal activity, who doesn't have any emotion involved, and it's like these are the requirements, this is what we need done, and the receiver's just gonna do it to fix up the house. 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:14.960 And they work for a judge, they work under the judge's supervision, so it's all kind of done, you know, in a really proper and methodical manner that leads to actual abatement of the property. 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.400 It's all above board, a lot of the hide-and-seek goes away. 00:34:18.800 -->

00:34:24.079 You know, a lot of the cat and mouse game of you know, try and find the code violation if you can. 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:24.559 Yep. 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:34.559 Uh, that goal goes away, and and and you're using licensed contractors, not they'll hire that hygienist that the uh crime syndicate didn't order or didn't get. 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.840 Yeah, or you know, there's things with bribery going on that we think with the industrial hygienist, some of them. 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:41.039 Well, good point. 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:41.679 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.280 Money so a lot of that goes away for receivers involved. 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:52.239 Yeah, it is amazing how many um awful things stem from this kind of thing. 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.159 So, you know, this is scenario, Mike, we've been focusing on uh for good reason with grows and houses. 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:02.639 I assume that in cities they're not growing, they are let me put that differently. 00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:09.440 I assume in cities they're growing in houses because one, there's not a lot of open land to grow, and number two, you want to hide it. 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:10.400 Is that accurate? 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:11.280 Yeah, yeah. 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:16.159 So the counties, uh unincorporated county areas, we're seeing a lot of outdoor grows. 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:21.199 We have a lot of outdoor grows in the the unincorporated county areas around our city, yeah. 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:29.599 Uh, and then up, you know, in other areas of the state, outdoor growing is a is a huge thing, and that brings its own basket of issues. 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:37.280 Um, there's obviously the the land use violation, but then there's like massive environmental impacts. 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:37.920 Absolutely. 00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:40.800 Pesticides that they use at outdoor grows. 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:49.760 Um, they want to keep the little uh mammals from eating at the base of the plants, so they'll use carbofurin or metamethose. 00:35:50.320 --> 00:36:05.920 And these are uh have these are these are uh drugs, these are chemicals so toxic that let's just say that a uh mouse nibbles on the bottom of the marijuana plant that's been treated with carbofurin. 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.360 That mouse dies. 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.400 Then uh an owl says, What an easy snack right here, a dead mouse. 00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:14.000 I don't have to go hunt it. 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:20.559 The owl uh starts eating the dead mouse, the owl dies because that uh chemical is still there. 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:28.000 The coyote comes along, the coyote eats the dead, and it is bioaccumulative, it just keeps killing. 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:28.880 Absolutely. 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:35.119 Never, and that is on top of the uh impact it has on the soil, right? 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:42.400 I'm sure it's just absolutely debilitating the soil and its ability to

grow, and then some of this crap might make its way down to the aquifer at some point. 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:43.599 It gets into the water. 00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.440 They'll well, the other thing is so cannabis is a very water-intensive plant. 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:51.679 Some studies have shown up to six gallons per plant per day. 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.039 So they'll divert uh streams and rivers or they'll siphon that off. 00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:58.800 They don't have any water rights for that. 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:08.159 Uh, and they'll they'll create huge reservoirs um that are part of the California's water system, and just taking the water for their marijuana grow. 00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:17.760 And then, yeah, those those chemicals get into the downstream uh water, into the streams and rivers, and and it affects the aquatic life. 00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:26.480 Yeah, I've heard of that in Northern California, where for those outside California, you know, we think of Sacramento and San Francisco as being Northern California. 00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:28.159 It's really only about halfway point. 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:31.920 California is gigantic, and once you get above that, it's gets very rural. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.400 And so you have a lot of open, beautiful areas. 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.719 And uh, but this is the same around the country. 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:40.159 This is not an issue specific to California. 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:45.679 In fact, I would argue that there are lots of other areas around the country that are more rural and susceptible to these kind of things. 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:46.880 Is that is that right? 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:57.280 Well, if there are areas of Northern California that the fire department will not go to without a sheriff's escort because of the amount of illegal marijuana cultivation. 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:04.960 And there are people standing in the middle of these rural roads with AK-47s confronting anybody that comes down to the road. 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:14.320 So Northern California is turned into you know something that you would think is would happen in some other country that you'd never think would think is happening in the United States. 00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:17.039 And that is spreading um to other states. 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:21.840 They're seeing this in Montana right now on the um Indian reservations. 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.760 Now, is that why on why on the Indian reservations? 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:31.039 Because then like the state doesn't have as much jurisdiction to go and like crack down on this stuff. 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:36.400 Yeah, most of the Indian reservations in Montana are uh not public law 280. 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:42.159 So there is no state and local law enforcement, it's reservation law enforcement or the federal government. 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.480 So there's there's not a lot of law enforcement presence uh up there. 00:38:46.719

--> 00:38:53.840 Yeah, and they probably don't have the resources to take on something as organized and uh kind of ahead of them like this kind of stuff. 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:54.559 Yeah. 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:55.519 That's awful. 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:56.400 Holy smokes. 00:38:56.480 --> 00:39:07.039 Yeah, I've heard a couple stories uh about uh, like you said, creeks and rivers being uh diverted, or I think I heard one about a grow that they found in like a national park. 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:11.199 And so they're like planting in some of these crazy areas, right? 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:17.519 I mean, these are public resources and land that are completely being stolen for a criminal purpose on top of the crime of stealing it. 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:26.880 I heard a report at one of the conferences that they found the illegal marijuana grow inside the boundaries of Vandenberg Air Force Base. 00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:28.000 That's stunning. 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:28.719 That's stunning. 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.239 And we're talking more than just like some guy's local little stash. 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:36.320 That really takes some real uh guts to do something like that. 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:51.519 And you know, the other reporting that's come out uh at some of the conferences is that um there's marijuana grows that are showing up uh on the boundaries just outside of Air Force bases in Oklahoma and elsewhere. 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:56.719 And uh these are uh Chinese-run marijuana grows, Chinese triad grows. 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:10.639 And at um at least one of them, there's a report that they found electronic equipment that had nothing to do with cultivation and uh could be used, you know, for use for more gathering information. 00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:18.239 So these really there's a whole bunch of national security implications uh from this illegal cultivation. 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.800 One, you know, it's uh on it's it's destroying our environment. 00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:38.639 Uh, we're poisoning people who are ingesting pesticides and fertilizer, and then you know, you potentially have you know organized crime, uh Chinese organized crime setting up outside of a military base, gathering information while they're doing their grow. 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.280 There's nothing in this is good for our country. 00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:45.039 What is the landscape legally with marijuana federally? 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:57.039 Because against what you just talked about laid out there for us, Mike, with the organized risks that are being created against Americans for this stuff, what um what's the federal stance on this? 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:08.320 Federally was just rescheduled to Schedule three, which means Schedule one means that the drug has no legitimate medical use at all and a very high potential for abuse. 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:17.280 And schedule three is basically a recognition that, okay, maybe there is a uh some medicinal value uh to this product. 00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:18.800 But that okay, fine. 00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:21.599 But that doesn't mean that it can be grown inside a house. 00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:25.119 That means that it has to be grown in a licensed, regulated environment. 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:42.000 And California has a regulatory scheme uh for growing licensed cannabis that exists, but um, if you want to grow illegally and not pay taxes and not comply with the regulations, uh that's that's what organized crime does. 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.840 And that's the market that has to be smashed, is the illegal market. 00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:47.280 Yeah, always. 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:49.679 I mean, it just morphs from one to another. 00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:55.679 You know, you had the mafia, some, you know, God, 80 years ago, doing, you know, heck, less than that. 00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:57.360 Uh, different kind of organized crime. 00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:03.360 Got organized crime in the fentanyl business, got organized crime in a whole slew of stuff that's going on. 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:12.400 Um, so I guess federally speaking, going back to kind of the scheduling here, so they reduced the scheduling, in other words, kind of the oversight that's involved in it. 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:19.199 Is that fair to say from schedule one to a schedule three, which is a significantly lower level of I guess, concern? 00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:21.199 Am I understanding that correctly? 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.320 Well, schedule three is still a controlled substance. 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:27.599 Um you know, I I've I don't know. 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.079 I can't give you examples of other schedule three. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.559 I think coding might be schedule three. 00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:36.960 Um, so it it, you know, become like a prescription thing. 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.360 There's already prescription marijuana, though. 00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:40.480 It's called marinol. 00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:41.760 Interesting. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:45.119 And that's what, like concentrated THC or something like that? 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:46.159 Yeah, I don't know. 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:52.719 Uh I think they they I haven't read up on that, so I can't tell you what it's prescribed for. 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:57.679 I imagine you probably it's a heavy lift to convince your doctor to prescribe it. 00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:00.000 Yeah, I I bet so. 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:07.280 And that's different than the old doctor's recommendation prescription stuff when they just rolled out um criminalized marijuana. 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:09.920 Yeah, Prop 25 215 in California. 00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:22.000 Uh Fed, do you anticipate any impact on local enforcement or regulation coming from the federal rule change, removing it from a schedule one to a schedule three narcotic? 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:35.199 No, I mean I I think that the the the uh organized crime

groups are gonna do what they're gonna do, and and uh it's just more profitable to grow it uh outside of the regulation without the licensing. 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:35.920 Of course. 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:40.800 And and that's really fueling that's feeling this thing. 00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.519 When we were, you know, all sold Prop sixty four. 00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:49.039 We were told by legalizing this, uh, we're this is gonna smash the illegal market. 00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.159 But it really didn't have it didn't have that effect. 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.320 It actually had the opposite effect. 00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:59.840 Prop sixty four, by the way, uh was the voter past law. 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.440 That legalizes personal growth to recreational use. 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:08.400 Personal grows up to a certain amount and recreational use of marijuana in California. 00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:11.199 So why did that have the opposite of the intended effect? 00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:22.800 Which was if we take, if we legalize it and bring it into the light, so to speak, then the cartels can't make a bunch of money off it because mom and pop shops, that's the theory, will open up uh storefront marijuana places, right? 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.360 That farmer you mentioned earlier actually be a farmer. 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:28.000 Why is uh why did that not work? 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:34.000 Well, for the most part, it made cultivation, unlicensed cultivation a misdemeanor. 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:36.639 No matter regardless of the quantity. 00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:44.000 Regardless of the quice, you could grow a thousand in a giant multi-million dollar criminal enterprise and now it'll reduce it to a misdemeanor. 00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:46.239 And as we talked about earlier, it's not very effective. 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:52.880 No, it's uh it it is a disincentive for the cops to spend a lot of time on the investigation. 00:44:53.119 --> 00:45:00.400 And and again, if you did time in Russian prison, like do you care about a misdemeanor in California? 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.039 Right. 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.440 Yeah, now that's an interesting reference. 00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:05.119 Why do you reference a Russian prison? 00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:09.280 Is that just kind of like a quip, or is that from an actual experience that you've read about or heard about? 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:12.639 So the group that would now this is different around the state. 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:23.920 The group that we're dealing with um in northern Los Angeles County are are uh all Eastern uh European uh Russian group, all organized crime. 00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:27.039 And they're tough, and they're they're very tough. 00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:32.480 So they don't care about the consequences, and so this is not a deterrent at all. 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.360 Uh, when you're like, this is a misdemeanor, this is a big deal. 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:36.320 Yeah, they don't care. 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.079 That this it's not a big deal. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:42.239 And that's where code enforcement is helpful because we don't abate people. 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:49.920 So whether they were in a you know a gulag or they're just you know mom and pop, we deal with the property. 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:57.599 And so, in terms of taking away and abating the dangers that the place they've just ruined uh creates for the neighbors, we go in and deal with that issue. 00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:03.840 And that takes the um, I guess, deterrence effect, the deterrence question out of it. 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.400 There is a deterrent in uh your investment being compromised, I guess, in that respect. 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.239 But really, we're much more concerned in code enforcement, which is getting the darn problem solved. 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:16.559 This building is dangerous, it is dangerous to the next family that's gonna live in it. 00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:25.679 That's dangerous to my community, it is undermines the property values, which lowers the sales tax, or not the sales tax, the property tax. 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:32.400 Right because it lowers the property tax, it lowers the revenue that the government needs to provide vital services. 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:40.320 This that's the definition of a public nuisance, and that's code enforcement's really that's where you plant your flag. 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:44.639 That's what we're interested in is protecting our community from that. 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.280 And then police can go after the the people. 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:49.119 Yeah, we don't deal with the crime. 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.639 We've been talking here about misdemeanors, but code enforcement deals with the building. 00:46:52.880 --> 00:47:00.480 And police and the state and federal government can and are and presumably will deal with uh the criminal aspect of it. 00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:04.719 Uh, we're kind of dealing with the aftermath of what these uh folks are leaving behind. 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:21.920 So you're going into one of these buildings here, and what I mean, what our what our viewers or listeners can't see is the poster behind you of a person, I'm guessing you in a full, complete, top-to-bottom uh uh hazmat suit, and you're looking at hundreds and hundreds of plans. 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:30.480 So, what officer safety tips or recommendations do you have for code enforcement and building inspectors who may be encountering this situation? 00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:35.119 Well, uh one is the very first thing is I go take a Haswapper class. 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:48.159 Take the 40-hour Haswhopper class, and there's one in Sacramento uh at a place called NES that's uh specializes in hazardous materials related to illegal cannabis cultivation. 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:50.639 So I'd I'd I'd definitely go take that. 00:47:50.800 --> 00:48:00.239 When

we go in the grow house, we are wearing uh Tyvek suits with a full face APR with a P100 magenta cartridge. 00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:04.480 And that's pretty standard with gloves and the whole thing. 00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.760 Uh and then moving very slowly as we go through the house. 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.000 Um so as not to get caught and torn or something like that. 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:13.599 And and is that why? 00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:14.320 I assume it's a little bit more than a lot of people. 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:21.519 Well, I mean just watching where we're going, there's a little trip over something, there's electrical hazards, huge electrical hazards. 00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:25.840 They sometimes will bore out holes in the floor that you can fall into. 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.800 There's booby traps in some of these houses. 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:36.159 Um so yeah, we're moving slowly and and deliberately so that we don't walk into issues like that. 00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:41.039 Um even that they're saying is not enough, though. 00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:46.639 The talk right now in hazmat circles is that we should be wearing self-contained breathing apparatus. 00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:47.440 Wow. 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:47.920 Wow. 00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:55.679 And that's now you're talking ten thousand dollar investment for you know, and then all the training that goes with that. 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:03.119 Yeah, and in the in the picture uh behind you, there's a bulletproof vest being worn over the Tyvek suit as well. 00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:05.840 I assume that's actually a sheriff or police officer there. 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:08.159 That's me and my former career. 00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:08.880 Got it. 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:09.840 Okay, wow. 00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:11.599 So there's an array of dangers. 00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:16.559 I mean, it's so I think it highlights the importance of cities getting ahead of this stuff. 00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:20.880 There's no opportunity, right, Mike, for cities just to go, this isn't us. 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:22.400 We don't have to deal with this, right? 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:31.599 Because if it does say, say you are blessed to not have this somehow in your jurisdiction, and I would say that that is a dubious uh assumption. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:42.719 Um when it comes up, you don't want to be going to hit that 40-hour training you were talking about or put your people in risk because you're not doing the training, you need to be ready from the get-go. 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:56.079 Yeah, probably Beverly Hills might be maybe the only city in California that's not going to be impacted by this, but uh, but I I say maybe because there were million-dollar houses in the Bay Area that were being converted to full-blown grow houses. 00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:59.679 So e even a city like Beverly Hills may not even be exempt from this. 00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:02.079 Yeah, uh you have to get the training. 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.400 You cannot opt out from this. 00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:12.400 Uh the city has the obligation to protect it the its community and to protect the buildings in its community. 00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:23.840 Um, if if the city doesn't care, I mean I guess they don't they don't have to, but state law requires cities to enforce the state housing law and to protect the community. 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.320 And like this is just a rash. 00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:29.119 This is unbelievably dangerous to the community. 00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:34.880 And the city is not putting resources into it and they're turning a blind eye and they're not taking it seriously. 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:42.639 They're doing a massive disservice to their community, to that neighborhood, and to the future family that's going to occupy that house. 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:43.760 Absolutely. 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:45.519 And it will lead to lawsuits. 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.599 I mean, a city gets sued because they knowing knew of this and didn't abate it. 00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:50.639 It's a big problem. 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:54.000 And like you said, uh state housing law is mandatory. 00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:57.679 Building codes um uh get triggered with that as well. 00:50:57.920 --> 00:50:59.199 So there's a lot going on there. 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:06.320 Mike, as we're as we're kind of wrapping up here, what would be your ask for our legislature here in California? 00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:10.719 And I guess that would apply to other legislators, uh legislatures across the country. 00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:12.880 What should they know? 00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:14.559 What would be your tip to them? 00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:18.000 And what do we want them to do to help us do our jobs? 00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.000 Well, there's probably uh that's a pretty long wish list. 00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:29.920 Uh presumptive illness for code enforcement officers who are regularly involved in investigating illegal marijuana. 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:40.159 Uh are you being exposed to high levels of mold spores and nerve agent pesticides, and you may not realize that you've been exposed for 15 years. 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:40.480 Right. 00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:42.079 So you start having symptoms. 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:46.159 So uh presumptive disability is something to consider. 00:51:46.480 --> 00:52:02.639 The other thing is that um, you know, there are some felonies, uh just very few felonies for um illegal cannabis cultivation if there's an environmental component or illegal dumping component or a water diversion component. 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.519 And they ought to add one more, which is for destroying a building. 00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:15.119 If you destroy a residential building, you've done such massive harm to the community that that's really worthy of being a felony. 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:16.960 Yeah, it's a felony to burn it down. 00:52:17.039

--> 00:52:21.920 I mean, why is it not a felony to do it in a slower time frame from the inside out? 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:22.800 That's interesting. 00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:30.480 Yeah, and other states have probably been less rigorous in the decriminalization categorically of things in California. 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:34.719 So they may have some more of those resources available to them than California does. 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.039 What should the federal government uh be doing differently about this? 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:46.719 You know, I'd like if the federal government get get more engaged in dealing with the organized crime, that that's a good role for them, I think. 00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:51.360 Um, because the organized crime is alive and well and taking advantage of this. 00:52:51.679 --> 00:53:00.559 And then I guess finally, Mike, what would be your advice to code enforcement officers who are listening right now thinking, uh, what do I even do? 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:01.920 Where do I begin? 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:05.679 Well, you gotta get your uh chain of command on board. 00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:24.239 You have to get your chain of command to understand that this is really important to be trained up and have have the personal protective equipment on hand before you need it, and and and train and practice wearing it and and and go get these training classes, and this problem's not going away anytime soon. 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.159 So everybody needs to get trained up and prepared for for for dealing with this problem. 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.760 If this these groups are not in your community, they will be. 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:47.440 Some communities in California are gonna be impacted more than others based on based on housing prices, based on access to the transportation system, based on proximity to to metropolitan areas. 00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.480 But everybody's gonna see this in their in in their community to a different extent. 00:53:52.639 --> 00:54:01.119 And so it behooves all of code enforcement and building and safety both to get trained up and and because both have to work together. 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:02.000 Absolutely. 00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.639 I mean, the best agency is the one where the left and right hand are talking and are working together. 00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:15.280 And if you're from an agency that isn't dealing with it, you are you are dealing with it indirectly in in all the ways that we talked about in this. 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:22.559 Uh Mike, where can people go to learn more about training opportunities or how to learn more about this uh this issue? 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:31.519 I would check the KCO website and and uh I get invited to do um uh training up and down the state pretty regularly. 00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.440 The last one we did was up in uh, I think it was in Modesto. 00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:39.440 And um, you know, we'll keep doing it and spreading the word. 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:44.000 And uh and I hope to see more building inspectors start showing up to this as well. 00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:55.039 Be good if some city administrators, city managers kind of come in and get educated because this is a major, major public safety, public health issue. 00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:56.239 Yeah, it sure is. 00:54:56.320 --> 00:54:58.320 Uh, it sounds like it's just getting worse too. 00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.559 So, Mike, thank you for joining us today. 00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:03.199 A real uh dose of reality here for us. 00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:05.039 And uh it's been a great conversation. 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:06.320 Thank you much for joining us. 00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:07.039 Thank you. 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:12.639 And everybody else, thank you for joining us uh on this latest episode of the True Code podcast. 00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:17.280 I hope this has been an informative conversation for you, if not perhaps a little bit daunting. 00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.719 Stay tuned and catch us on our future episodes. 00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:25.360 Thank you for joining us on this journey. 00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:31.280 If you enjoyed what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, and review us wherever you're listening right now. 00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:32.800 Until next time.