Interviews by Dominick Prive and Wenitte Apiou의 전체 녹취록

to observe this because American politics has become 35 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:24.000 so polarized, so acrimonious, especially over the course of the 36 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:27.199 past decade, and even more so over the course of 37 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.479 the twenty twenties, really since the start of the COVID pandemic. 38 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:38.919 But Poles have consistently shown that despite the major policy 39 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:43.120 differences and differences on the issues of the day between 40 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:49.599 Democrats and Republicans, most Americans whether they're Democrats or Republicans 41 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:55.560 or independents, tend to align on seeing some good arising 42 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.680 out of technological progress. There are some exceptions, both on 43 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.759 the right and the left. On the right, the exceptions 44 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.960 tend to come from let's call them the alt right 45 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:11.199 conspiracy theorists, the Alex Jones types who like to cast 46 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:17.039 transhumanism as some nefarious conspiracy among global elites. I can 47 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:20.360 definitely tell you that's not the case. On the left, 48 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:26.520 the animosity tends to come toward transhumanism from let's call 49 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:30.919 them the back to nature or neo Malthusian types who 50 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:37.039 see problems with technological progress and alleged resource constraints, which 51 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:41.919 I would also say are not really the case. But 52 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:48.439 among let's say more mainstream Democrats and Republicans, there's not 53 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:54.199 really an aversion towards technology. These people use technologies, including 54 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:58.879 emerging technologies, on a day to day basis, and they're 55 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.639 not opposed to progress in medicine. They're not opposed to 56 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:08.159 progress and computation or AI or space travel, though they 57 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:12.759 may have different views about any regulatory frameworks and the 58 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:17.839 extent of regulation that should apply to technological progress. But 59 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:23.160 I think the overarching promise of transhumanism can speak to 60 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.439 people from across today's political spectrum. This is why the 61 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:31.399 Transhumanist Party does not consider itself to be left wing 62 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.360 or right wing. It seeks to transcend that distinction, and 63 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.439 it considers itself to be upwing. So we are in 64 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:44.839 favor of any advancement and any policies that would contribute 65 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:48.439 to the overall progress of humanity, which means people would

66 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:52.720 get to live longer, higher quality, healthier lives, of greater 67 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:57.600 material prosperity and abundance and opportunity. And we would like 68 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:01.959 to see those kinds of outcomes apply to as many 69 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.839 people as possible. I think that's where we could, in principle, 70 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:10.000 have a lot of alignment with people on the left. 71 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:15.199 For instance, people who care about those who are currently poor, 72 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:19.399 those who are currently marginalized, who don't have as many opportunities. Well, 73 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:24.199 transhumanism can provide opportunities for them, empowering them as individuals 74 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.680 by giving them access to technologies, by giving them access 75 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:32.319 to better healthcare, greater longevity, so that they could self 76 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:36.000 actualize in ways that they would like and dramatically improve 77 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:36.560 their lives. 78 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.839 That's a great answer. I like that phrase you used 79 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:45.079 upwin too. That's nice, That's a good way of getting 80 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:49.160 it across. I think. I know. When I had first 81 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:53.439 started researching the different third parties, right, I was trying 82 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:57.079 to look into how can I approach people in my 83 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.519 home state with all of these options outside of the 84 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.639 Democrats and Republicans. And at first when I found out 85 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:07.399 about the Transhumanist Party, I wasn't super interested in it 86 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:12.360 because I assumed that the policy stances of the party 87 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.560 were going to be pretty much the same as maybe 88 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.759 the Libertarian Party. I was expecting a lot of like 89 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.839 deregulating tech, expected that to be the only thing on 90 00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:25.680 the platform really, and so in my mind I was like, 91 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:28.959 as much as I am a transhumanist, maybe this is 92 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.480 not a political question. And then I actually read the 93 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.800 party platform and I was surprised to see things like 94 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:42.399 an endorsement of increased NIH funding, for example. One thing 95 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.800 I wanted to ask you about is what are sort 96 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.519 of the possibilities you see for what the US government 97 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:54.839 can do to fund technological progress in the near future. 98 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:01.319 Indeed, the US Transhumanist Party does support increased NIH funding. 99 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:04.120 Hopefully it will be put to good use. And I 100 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.920 know right now, there are some doubts with the appointment 101 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:11.759 of someone like RFK Junior as the head of the 102 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:15.279 Department of Health and Human Services, so I understand that cavea. 103 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.560 But in practice, the NIH does fund a lot of 104 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:23.959 basic research into human aging, the biology of human aging 105 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.639 that probably wouldn't get funded by the private sector, and 106 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:33.879 to the extent that that worthwhile science continues. Of course, 107 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.240 we in the Transhumanist Party very much support that, but 108 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:40.399 we would like to see a lifting of some of 109 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:45.240 the barriers that happen some of the incentives that lead 110 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:50.000 the allocation of NIH grants to be overly cautious, overly 111 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:55.040 focused on kind of sure things, projects that aren't particularly ambitious, 112 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.160 but they're likely to realize some sort of incremental result. Now, 113 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.319 we are very enthusiastic about a program such as our 114 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:07.399 pa H, and indeed we are aware of some genuine longevists, 115 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.959 people who want to overcome aging, being appointed as program 116 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.800 managers of our pa H. That includes our friend doctor 117 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.480 Jean Abert, whom I have interviewed previously on one of 118 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.959 our virtual Enlightenment salons for the Transhumanist Party, and I've 119 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:25.759 met with him, I've spoken with him he has a 120 00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:32.120 very ambitious vision toward essentially incremental replacement of tissues of 121 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:35.799 the human brain as a way of combating brain aging. 122 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.360 So our pa H is intended to be essentially a 123 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:44.480 parallel to DARPA in being a bit less shackled in 124 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.000 terms of how it can allocate funds what sort of 125 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:51.519 research it could pursue. So we're very optimistic about that. 126 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.720 And in terms of other approaches, the Transhumanist Party supports 127 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:03.759 a universe basic income. This universal basic income is not 128 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.279 going to be funded through raising taxes. It's going to 129 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.639 be funded through a proposal called the Federal Land Dividend, 130 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.200 where a lot of the land that is currently unused, 131 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:18.279 that is not comprised of national parks or national forests 132

00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.639 or landmarks that we would want to preserve could get 133 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.879 leased out to companies in exchange for those companies essentially 134 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.480 paying into a fund kind of analogous to the Alaska 135 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:34.159 Permanent Fund, which uses Alaska's oil revenues to pay its 136 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:38.559 citizens essentially an annual amount ranging from a few hundred 137 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.639 to a few thousand dollars. So that's another way in 138 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.879 which we think there could be a government program that 139 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.159 helps people. But it's not a government program that's going 140 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:52.879 to cost ordinary people anything more out of pocket than 141 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:58.440 they're paying right now. And then during the early Pandemic, 142 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:05.000 the Transhumanist Party actually supported a significant array of health 143 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:11.279 expansions interventions into the healthcare system that were intended to 144 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.159 build out our infrastructure, our capacity, because hospitals were overcrowded 145 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:19.559 at that point, and the Transhumanist Party saw the need 146 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:23.840 to more than double the hospital capacity in the United States. 147 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:28.399 So we were advocating for a rapid hospital construction program 148 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:32.480 similar to what had been undertaken in China, except it 149 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:36.039 would be a permanent expansion. Unfortunately, since we are not 150 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:41.559 a major political party, our proposal kind of fell on 151 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:45.879 deaf ears. But nonetheless, if we had gotten our way, 152 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.840 we would have twice as many at least hospital beds 153 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:53.840 in this country right now. There would be a lot 154 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:58.039 of hospitals that would be constructed that would have a 155 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.360 mandate to operate, whether or not generated a profit. So 156 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:05.039 there are many underserved areas in this country, rural areas 157 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.240 where it's very difficult for people to get healthcare. Sometimes 158 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.159 there are certain parts of Nevada where I live where 159 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:16.879 somebody who needs top notch healthcare or specialized healthcare needs 160 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.240 to travel for about two hours in order to reach 161 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.519 a hospital, and we would have solved that problem with 162 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:31.799 our proposal. Unfortunately, it seems like the established special interests 163 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.919 prevailed there because it's often the case that an existing 164 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:40.000 hospital corporation wants to have a monopoly over a particular area, 165 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:44.000 and it imposes these certificate of need laws, which essentially 166 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:48.600 require an approval for the construction of a new hospital 167 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:52.480 to be given by a board comprised of representatives of 168 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.080 existing hospitals. Well, how do you think they're going to 169 00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:00.919 decide in that case? So the transhumanist parties approach is 170 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.120 actually distinctive from either of the major political parties or 171 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.759 from the libertarians. The libertarians would just say get completely 172 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.639 out of the way. Government shouldn't do anything. The Transhumanist 173 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.039 Party says there could be a role for government for 174 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:22.639 affirmatively building things and creating things and funding research, but 175 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.759 government should get out of the way in terms of 176 00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:31.360 any barrier's place to innovations, sources of delay, or sources 177 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:34.440 of what we would consider to be hyper caution. So 178 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:39.480 we would support streamlining the FDA regulatory process, and we 179 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:43.000 have a range of perspectives from our members. Some would 180 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.320 support abolishing the FDA entirely. Some would support moving to 181 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.519 what is called best choice medicine, which has been tried 182 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:56.840 in other countries such as Japan, where perhaps a drug 183 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:02.279 or therapy or device could pass safety trials and then 184 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.840 marketing of it would be permitted with the aim of 185 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:10.759 gathering data in regard to efficacy, so that we don't 186 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:14.519 have to wait and patients who sometimes have serious illnesses 187 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:19.200 or life threatening conditions don't have to wait until ten 188 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:23.320 to fifteen years have passed and that treatment has passed 189 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.720 efficacy trials. They could benefit from it right away, and 190 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.600 that could be very useful clinical experience that is actually 191 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:36.399 more reliable than clinical trials that are often, let's say, 192 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:40.639 conducted in artificial settings. They may not represent how patients 193 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:44.360 in the real world actually interact with these medicines or 194 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:49.320 devices or therapies. So the Transhumanist Party tries to be 195 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.600

nuanced about this. We try to look at each particular policy, 196 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.600 including possible government interventions, and say, well, how is this 197 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.320 going to contribute to human lawnngevity and health. Is this 198 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.600 going to accelerate progress or is this going to slow 199 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.960 progress down and that's how we make our decisions, but 200 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.279 we try not to be doctrinaire about it. So there 201 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.120 may be some in the Libertarian party who would say, well, 202 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.519 we don't care what the outcome of this policy is 203 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.519 going to be. Just on the basis of some set 204 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.519 of principles, we're going to say, no, we don't want 205 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:31.360 government intervention here. And I would say, right now, that 206 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.279 is a bit of a short sighted approach, because we 207 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:39.200 have a certain time window, let's say, the next twelve 208 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.519 to thirty years, in which we would like to have 209 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.759 longevity escape velocity attained in time for our generation to 210 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.639 benefit from it, and pragmatically speaking, we need to use 211 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:54.320 every possible means to achieve that, and then we will have, 212 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.360 hopefully all the time in the world to devise the 213 00:14:57.879 --> 00:14:59.879 optimal policy framework. 214 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:05.600 So is that just use the term longevity escape velocity 215 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:09.559 and towards our generation specifically? Is it? Do you guys 216 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.200 believe typically that it is that close. 217 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:17.440 I tend to align with doctor Aubrey de Gray, whose 218 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.360 work I have been aware of for now more than 219 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.480 twenty years, and with whom I'm actually collaborating since I'm 220 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.799 a member of the board of directors of his newest organization, 221 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:34.919 the Longevity Escape Velocity Foundation. So the probabilistic prediction that 222 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:40.120 Aubrey de Gray has made is that we're about twelve 223 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:45.039 to fifteen years away with a fifty percent probability of 224 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.480 reaching longevity escape velocity, which means by that time therapies 225 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.679 of damage repair will be available to reverse to some 226 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.879 extent each of the seven major category of damage that 227 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.639 Aubrey De Gray outlined within his sense approach and sends 228 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.559 to those who don't know stands for strategies for engineered 229 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:13.720 negligible senessence. Now, this is a probabilistic prediction, so it 230 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.080 may be that it will take a little longer. It 231 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.720 may be that it will arrive a little bit sooner. 232 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.159 Aubrey does provide the caveat that he thinks there is 233 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:24.919 at least a ten percent probability that we won't get 234 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.480 there for one hundred years, but still an eighty to 235 00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:33.759 ninety percent probability of getting there this century, for instance, 236 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:38.960 is well worth pursuing. And I am hopeful that we 237 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.600 have a fighting chance of getting there before our generation 238 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:48.559 becomes too sinessed. So my hope is sometime, let's say 239 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.559 in my early to mid fifties, I would be able 240 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:58.639 to avail myself of some treatments that reliably reverse certain 241 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.440 aspects of biological aging. And that's important because the younger 242 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.599 you are, the more effective those treatments are going to be. 243 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:09.440 If you're ninety years old and the death's door, it's 244 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.279 hard to do very much to repair damage in a 245 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:17.200 meaningful way. Though emergency medicine is also advancing, and there 246 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.599 are ways to keep older patients alive for longer. But 247 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.680 this is a time when we should really be pushing 248 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:29.759 for these advances because I do think unless humankind destroys 249 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:34.319 itself in a nuclear war or there's a major asteroid impact, 250 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:39.599 these advances will come eventually. But the question is will 251 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:43.839 they come in time for us? And Aubrey's time frames 252 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:48.759 have shifted over the years as well. So he originally 253 00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:53.319 said in the early two thousands that we were about 254 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:58.400 thirty years away again with that probability estimate, and during 255 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:04.359 the twenty tens, actually his time frame advanced more slowly 256 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:06.720 than the passage of time because he didn't think enough 257 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.839 resources were devoted to the field. That started to change 258 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:15.000 in the late twenty tens through twenty twenty one, when 259 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:19.000 a lot of investment poured into the field and longevity 260 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:24.000 became much more recognized. There was more media coverage, more 261 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:30.279 people became

interested in the field. At present, there is 262 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.839 more funding. Sometimes that funding is not as well allocated 263 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:39.200 as it should be because with more exposure also comes 264 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:43.119 more hype. So some people think just through healthy lifestyle 265 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.680 they could reverse their aging, and maybe they could give 266 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.079 themselves five to fifteen years fifteen years at most, but 267 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.240 they're not going to live to one hundred and fifty 268 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.319 solely through healthy lifestyle. And what we want is an 269 00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:06.039 open ended, indefinite lifespan that requires advancements in biomedical rejuvenation technologies, 270 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.079 and that is what the Transhumanist Party is advocating for. 271 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:13.160 That's funny because that sort of leads me to one 272 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:18.680 of the common criticisms I hear is a lot of 273 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.160 people lumped together. Some I don't remember his name, But 274 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.839 there was a man who was all over the magazine, 275 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.000 the man who would Live Forever, talking about you know, 276 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.480 he just wants to take like supplements and exercise a lot, 277 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.279 and he thinks that he personally will live forever. And 278 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.240 in my eyes, that's maybe not the point or the 279 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:43.400 goal so much as just placing an emphasis on, Hey, 280 00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.640 this is going to come eventually. We need to make 281 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.640 progress towards this. And even if it doesn't affect me personally, 282 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.559 I would like you know, it wouldn't I would be 283 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.759 happy if my kids could live forever. You know what 284 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:56.119 I mean. 285 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:59.200 Yes, I think we need to be concerned about the 286 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.519 future of human as a whole, and I do personally 287 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.559 want to live forever. But what we're doing in the 288 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:12.279 Transhumanist Party is we are helping to advance this area 289 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:18.079 of scientific inquiry and technology and the policy framework surrounding 290 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.799 it by advocating for the researchers, advocating for the visionaries 291 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:29.279 who envision a better world for humanity. So I would 292 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:34.920 say those interests are aligned, and unfortunately, some people are 293 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.640 not going to make it to longevity escape velocity. Of course, 294 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.400 they do have a backup option. It's called cryonics, which 295 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:47.200 the Transhumanist Party also advocates for. And with cryonics, of course, 296 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.319 it needs to be much more widely adopted, and in 297 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.160 order for it to be more widely adopted, there needs 298 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:57.319 to be progress in both techniques of cryer preservation and 299 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.519 techniques of revival from crime our preservation, so that is 300 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:06.160 also an area of great interest for the Transhumanist Party. 301 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:10.319 But ultimately we want as many people as possible to 302 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.680 benefit from these advances, and we think it's worthwhile for 303 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:19.319 everybody to participate in order to bring that kind of 304 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:24.359 future closer. Every day that passes, about one hundred and 305 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.640 fifty thousand people die in the world, and about one 306 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:32.079 hundred and ten thousand of them die from causes related 307 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:39.240 to biological aging. So if the advancement of these treatments, 308 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.759 if the arrival of longevity escape velocity are hastened by 309 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.039 even a day, we would save one hundred and ten 310 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:50.200 thousand lives and multiply that by three hundred and sixty 311 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:55.279 five to see the impact in a year. It's quite tremendous, 312 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:58.119 I would say, and I think it's worthy as a 313 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:01.559 humanitarian pursuit as well. But I would say there can 314 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.319 be a confluence of motives there. So people who want 315 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:09.200 to live longer personally, people who want to help humanity 316 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.480 or help posterity, they all have a common cause in 317 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:15.440 this transhumanist movement. As long as we're moving in the 318 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:17.319 right direction, that is what matters. 319 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.960 That actually leads me also to. One of the sort 320 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.799 of leading concerns with this worldview is there's a big 321 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.000 religious criticism you mentioned earlier. Alex Jones, his belief is 322 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:36.559 very much a religious one. He sees transhumanism as a 323 00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:42.880 sort of Satanic false idol, as an evil machine God 324 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:47.079 that to replace the real God. I've heard a number 325 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:51.440 of religious thinkers on the left even recently, pushing back 326 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:56.160 against transhumanism from the same sort of Christian left perspective. 327 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.519 How do you speak to people who have a religious 328

00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:01.920 concern learn about transhumanism. 329 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.519 I would say transhumanism is not inherently anti religious, though 330 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.759 a lot of transhumanists or atheists, and that would include 331 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:15.200 me personally. There are also religious transhumanists. Micah Redding, who 332 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.480 is a friend of mine and a great supporter of ours, 333 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.640 is the head of the Christian Transhumanist Association. There's also 334 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:28.279 the Mormon Transhumanist Association, which is run by Carl Jungblood 335 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:33.119 and another prominent individual in that association is named Lincoln Cannon. 336 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.160 And the Mormon Transhumanist Association is actually one of the 337 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:44.519 largest transhumanist organizations, and they're very sincerely, very thoughtfully religious. 338 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.480 I don't think anybody could accuse them of being irreligious. 339 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:53.559 There are many Jewish transhumanists, Buddhist transhumanists, some Muslim transhumanists. 340 00:23:53.759 --> 00:24:00.000 So transhumanism is compatible with the theologies of major religion 341 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:06.519 ygens properly interpreted. For instance, I have met Catholics who 342 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.359 have been in favor of radical life extension because it 343 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.359 would enable them more time to do good works in 344 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.640 this world. And again I say, to the extent that 345 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.160 we are incrementally aligned. We want to push forward human progress, 346 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.960 achieve the betterment of the human condition, longer, healthier lives. 347 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.599 There really is no conflict. Now, there are some people 348 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.960 who will claim that transhumanism as opposed to their religious teachings, 349 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.839 but I would say that's less inherent to their theology, 350 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.559 and there's more a kind of status quo bias because 351 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:46.799 historically a lot of institutional religion has evolved, of course 352 00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:51.079 as well, but it has been a lagging indicator of 353 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:57.279 general cultural attitudes, about thirty to forty years behind the 354 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:02.319 cutting edge of advancement. For example, in the eighteenth century, 355 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:08.200 there were some forward thinking individuals Quakers, Shakers, some radical 356 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:13.359 Protestants who were anti slavery on principle, but the religious 357 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:16.640 mainstream at the time was pro slavery and was citing 358 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.359 evidence from the Bible, saying, well, all of these great 359 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:23.240 biblical figures they owned slaves. Slavery is natural and normal, 360 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.319 therefore and sanctioned by God. And it took people who 361 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:31.599 were outside of the status quo mentality to challenge slavery, 362 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.039 and over time, throughout the course of the nineteenth century, 363 00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:40.000 essentially all the major religious denominations came to reject slavery 364 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.799 and consider it contrary to the word of God. So 365 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.920 how did that happen? I think the problem isn't so 366 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.400 much religion, it's status quo bias, and the status quo 367 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.440 bias it exists among both religious and secular people alike, 368 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:03.640 because among many secular critics of transhumanism, one hears arguments like, oh, 369 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:08.079 we need to respect nature and transhumanism is unnatural, or 370 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.160 the world is going to be overpopulated or is going 371 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.640 to run out of resources, or we are all stardust 372 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:17.240 and we will just return to being stardust so it 373 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:21.160 doesn't really matter. Or they would just say immortality is 374 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:25.039 a delusion of the religious. So these people are short 375 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:27.799 sighted as well. They're just as short sighted as the 376 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.920 religious critics of transhumanism. What they don't see is that 377 00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:36.039 the present is already radically different from the past, and 378 00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:39.039 the future is going to be radically different from the present, 379 00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:43.880 and the pace of change is accelerating. Now, this could 380 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.680 be good change or it could be deleterious change. It 381 00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:51.680 depends on what we humans do to affect that change. However, 382 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:56.359 the situation isn't going to be stagnant. So assuming that 383 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.000 whatever the present status quo is is normal and natural, 384 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.200 and some future technological advance will be a departure from 385 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.920 that is not necessarily founded. Because if you think about it, 386 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:16.200 those same religious critics of transhumanism, they accept travel on trains, 387 00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:21.160 even though that was considered unnatural in the early nineteenth century. 388 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.680 People were making arguments like, oh, it's against the will 389 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.920 of God. It's unnatural to travel faster than a horse. 390 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.200

Or anesthesia was considered unnatural because God meant you to 391 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.720 feel pain. And now, of course anybody, even a fundamentalist 392 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:41.039 religious person, who goes in for major surgery, will opt 393 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:46.640 for anesthesia. Open heart surgery is accepted, even though it 394 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.440 changed the situation dramatically. If you had heart failure in 395 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.559 the nineteen forties or the nineteen fifties that was essentially 396 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.279 a death sentence, and now there are so many ways 397 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:03.200 to extend the life of a person with serious heart issues. 398 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.160 So religions evolve too, religious thinking evolves as well, And 399 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.000 we're not out to deconvert people. So I think the 400 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.960 religious critics of transhumanism can rest assured that we're not 401 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:21.799 going to challenge them on the fundamentals of their beliefs. 402 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:27.599 We would just ask them to recognize that in the 403 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:32.319 course of human events and the progress or the change 404 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:37.880 in our societies, their theological framework is actually a lot 405 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.000 more flexible than they consider it to be, and perhaps 406 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.279 the inflexibility stems from something else, not from the values 407 00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:46.039 that they hold. 408 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:54.400 Absolutely this makes me wonder also what is transhumanist parties 409 00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:00.440 relationship to the concept of technocracy as a form of government, 410 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.799 Because I noticed earlier you use the phrase upwing when 411 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.960 I think of the people who are generally sort of 412 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.160 in the center and up I think of the technocrats, 413 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.759 not in the sense of just liking technology, but in 414 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:19.079 the sense of relying very heavily on experts to sort 415 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.400 of make the decisions about how our society should function. 416 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.480 I would say there is some value in what is 417 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.799 considered to be technocracy, in the sense of the principle 418 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.440 that the people who are most qualified, most knowledgeable to 419 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:37.599 make a decision are the ones who should be making it, 420 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:41.960 with the important caveat that this shouldn't infringe upon individual rights, 421 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:48.119 and often there are cases where people who are experts 422 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.680 in one area may be stepping beyond that into areas 423 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:57.079 where they don't understand the implications as much. Actually, we 424 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:01.319 were skeptical of the pandemic lockdowns to begin because even 425 00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:06.400 though the intent was to limit the spread of infectious disease, 426 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:11.839 and I do think social distancing, especially early on during 427 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.920 the COVID pandemic, was a very wise decision. Having a 428 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:23.480 coercive lockdown created so many adverse economic and societal consequences, 429 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.480 and consequences in the way that people related to one 430 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:32.839 another generated so much anger, isolation, the pathologies that stemmed 431 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.240 from that that I would say on net it was 432 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:43.720 a deleterious decision, even if social distancing did save some lives. 433 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:49.000 So the question is, how does one have the appropriate 434 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:54.000 scope for a technical expert to make decisions which are 435 00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:59.039 indeed technical in nature, which that person is qualified to make, 436 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.799 but at the same time, you respect the ability and 437 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.160 the prerogative of individuals to lead their lives in the 438 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:10.359 ways that they see fit and take advantage of that 439 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.839 knowledge and that information, but not be forced into doing so. 440 00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:19.599 So transhumanists do respect diversity of individual choice, and you 441 00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:25.039 could have a situation where a very well functioning technological 442 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:28.359 infrastructure is designed, but people have the option not to 443 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:30.599 use it. For instance, the Amish. We would respect the 444 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.400 right of the Amish to live in the way that 445 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.359 they see fit, and they have internal decision making processes 446 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.279 for what technologies they choose to accept or reject. But 447 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.200 the key is they actually do accept some of the technologies. 448 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:48.519 They utilize a lot of today's healthcare systems, so they 449 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:51.759 might not utilize computers, but they will go to a 450 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.319 hospital to get treated and as a result, they live 451 00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:01.680 longer than their ancestors did. So technoc or I would say, 452 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.359 has its place. We don't want every decision to be 453 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:09.640 made by majority rule, because the majority isn't necessarily knowledgeable 454 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:14.119 about everything. But we do want to have a level 455 00:32:14.200 -->

00:32:18.359 of elected officeholders who are responsive to the people, and 456 00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:22.480 we need to make sure that elections genuinely reflect the 457 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:26.279 will of the people. Hence, we support electoral reforms such 458 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:32.839 as ranked choice voting, proportional representation, the allowance of any 459 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.119 party or any candidate who wants to get on the 460 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:38.319 ballot to do so. We support more inclusive debates, we 461 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:42.799 support fair er media coverage, and really we think there's 462 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:46.160 a greater role for democracy. There is also a role 463 00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:49.279 for an and violate sphere of individual rights and individual 464 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.200 choice which should not be infringed upon whether one is 465 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.000 in the majority or in the minority. So there are 466 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:02.319 really three layers of decisions making. On particular technical matters, 467 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:06.440 we do need technical experts. In terms of a broadly 468 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:10.839 representative government, we need a well functioning democracy where people 469 00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:14.559 actually get to choose who represents them. And then there's 470 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:18.359 a sphere of individual choice which can draw upon any 471 00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.400 of that and utilize any of that. But the individual 472 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:25.119 there is sovereign whether or not they make good decisions, 473 00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:27.680 by the way, but we would hope through culture we 474 00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:29.480 influence them to make good decisions. 475 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.759 So I know that in recent years you guys did 476 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:44.440 run a presidential candidate, zoltan Istvan. How did that campaign go? 477 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.279 Do you feel that you guys were successful in what 478 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.559 you were trying to accomplish with that campaign. 479 00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:50.440 Well. 480 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.279 In fact, we've run presidential candidates in every election cycle 481 00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:59.039 since twenty sixteen, and Liltani Ischwan was our first candidate 482 00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:03.599 in two thousand sixteen. He also founded the Transhumanist Party. 483 00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:08.480 Then in twenty twenty we had Charlie cam as our 484 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:13.159 presidential candidate and Liz Parrish as our vice presidential candidate, 485 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.440 and most recently we had Tom Ross as our presidential 486 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.119 candidate and Daniel Tweed as our vice presidential candidate. I 487 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.559 would say every election cycle we do achieve something in 488 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:34.119 addition to the previous election cycles. So the first time 489 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:39.119 around with Zulten, it was mostly about publicity, and Zulten 490 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:44.800 had this immortality bus tour. He converted an old nineteen 491 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:48.440 seventy eight RV into a coffin shaped bus, and he 492 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:55.239 traveled around the country and he appended the first version 493 00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.800 of the Transhumanist Bill of Rights very briefly to the 494 00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:01.280 walls of the Capitol Buil building, literally for a few 495 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.480 seconds before the wind blew it away. But it was 496 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:07.320 a kind of media opportunity and he had a lot 497 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:12.360 of articles written about that campaign, but the party didn't 498 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:17.599 really have a membership base or an infrastructure at that 499 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.840 time that had been established, and when I became chairman 500 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:26.039 shortly after that election, I started to build up the party, 501 00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:30.519 so we had a bit over one thousand members by 502 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:35.039 the time of the twenty twenty election with Charlie Camm 503 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.400 and of course given the pandemic, we had to run 504 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.639 an entirely virtual campaign at the time, but we did 505 00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:45.840 reach a lot of people. And now in twenty twenty 506 00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:51.280 four we had the Tom Ross Daniel Tweed campaign, where 507 00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.920 we still face difficulties with ballot access and that's where 508 00:35:54.920 --> 00:36:00.519 the duopoly has really built up formidable barriers, but our 509 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:03.199 candidates did get a bit over six hundred votes this 510 00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:07.760 time around. Again we got some media coverage and primarily 511 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.360 we have a huge amount of content that we've generated, 512 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:16.599 both in terms of Tom's personal output because he's a 513 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.079 prolific writer and graphic designer, as well as in terms 514 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:27.000 of our long form discussion panels, our weekly virtual Enlightenment salons, 515 00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:33.760 where we've delved into political issues as well as issues 516 00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:37.599 pertaining to the future of humanity the advancement of science 517 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:41.559 and technology. So we've done that every week at one 518 00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:45.719 pm Pacific time on Sunday, and we're going to continue 519 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.960 to do that. So primarily having a presidential candidate each 520 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:56.719 cycle serves as, let's call it, a marketing opportunity for transhumanism, 521

00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:01.440 because people will often pay more attention into politics than 522 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.159 they will to say, academic conferences or research papers. At least, 523 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:12.079 there's a different audience that gets attracted by political coverage. 524 00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.480 So we're trying to make transhumanism more means stream. Our 525 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:18.239 goal is to make it a household term and make 526 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:21.559 it be properly understood, not let the Alex Joneses of 527 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.119 the world set the terms of the discussion, and I 528 00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:29.760 think we are achieving some of that. Of course, cultural 529 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:35.760 transformation takes time, and we're chipping away at the institutional barriers, 530 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:40.119 but also every day through our activities, we're spreading the 531 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.159 word and I think over time that's going to continue 532 00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:47.199 to scale and build up momentum. We have about forty 533 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.440 six hundred members in the Transhumanist Party right now, and 534 00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:53.440 we want to keep growing. Membership is free, by the way, 535 00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:57.400 You can join at Transhumanist dash party dot org slash 536 00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.880 membership and it takes less than a minute to join. 537 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:06.880 All right, I'll definitely join Tom Ross's most recent campaign 538 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:11.199 in how many states were you able to get him 539 00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:11.840 on the ballot? 540 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:14.400 Well, we were trying to get him on the ballot 541 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:19.599 in Louisiana and Tennessee, where the thresholds are a bit lower. Unfortunately, 542 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.079 one of our main coordinators who is gathering petition signatures 543 00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:27.679 in Tennessee and his entire family fell ill with COVID 544 00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:32.599 right during the most critical weeks of gathering the signatures, 545 00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:36.480 so we felt short of the threshold. But I think 546 00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.920 that's a lesson for us to build up more of 547 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:44.079 a grassroots network of organizers on the ground. Right now, 548 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:49.920 transhumanism is still very much a movement that has geographically dispersed, 549 00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.199 where people coordinate online through conversations like the one that 550 00:38:55.239 --> 00:39:02.000 we're having, also through social media platforms, through email, through conferences. 551 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:06.440 Sometimes people will congregate in a particular location, but mostly 552 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.840 we opt for the low cost digital option. But we 553 00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:15.760 still have to get more penetration, especially in the rural areas, 554 00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:19.960 areas which may not have as much of a tech sector, 555 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.880 for instance, or just not as much population density. If 556 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:27.800 you have more population density, probabilistically speaking, you're going to 557 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:34.119 get a larger number of transhumanists. So unfortunately, a lot 558 00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:38.159 of states when one is gathering petitions, either require the 559 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:45.239 petitions themselves to have a proportional number of signatures based 560 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:50.320 on the congressional districts, or a certain number of people 561 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:53.880 who agree to be electors for a candidate, and one 562 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:58.280 would need, for instance, one elector from each congressional district 563 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.679 and then a few at large electors. So if we 564 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:05.719 have a very rural area in a particular state, it 565 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.159 may be difficult to find a transhumanist in that area. 566 00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:14.639 So we really need to grow and broaden our network 567 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:19.440 geographically in order to be able to get onto the 568 00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:24.719 ballot in many states, or advocate for lowering those ballot 569 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:28.440 access thresholds, because as I've said, these are artificial thresholds 570 00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:32.760 set up by the duopoly, both Democrats and Republicans, for 571 00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.679 the purpose of keeping minor parties away from ballot access. 572 00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:42.559 So that was Louisiana and Tennessee. You said you struggled with, 573 00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:46.719 did you get ballot access elsewhere or. 574 00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:50.159 Well, those are the states with the lowest thresholds that 575 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:54.440 we identified. Okay, So Colorado used to be a promising 576 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:58.760 option as well, because it was possible at one point 577 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.639 in time even four years go to just pay a 578 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.960 fee of one thousand dollars and get nine electors in 579 00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.760 Colorado and get onto the ballot. But the Democrats in 580 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:13.599 Colorado caught wind of this and they made the requirements 581 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.559 a lot more stringent. But really, in most states one 582 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:21.719 has to get thousands of petition signatures by hand, and 583 00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.800 that's the real restriction. It's not a very technologically friendly system, actually, 584 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.719 and it speaks to the lengths to which the duopoly 585 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.840 will go to keep any challengers

away. But this is 586 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:39.639 why I've said we don't really have a truly representative 587 00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.440 democracy in this country right now. We have an oligarchy. 588 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:49.119 And this oligarchy has manipulated the rules through legal processes. 589 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.199 I'm not saying they're breaking the law. I'm saying they 590 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.639 have configured the law to be rigged in their. 591 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:59.519 Favor, absolutely out of personal curiosity. Right I'm over here 592 00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:03.440 up New Hampshire. Do you guys have chapters? Do you 593 00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.639 have a New Hampshire chapter of the Transhumanist Party or 594 00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:07.480 anything like that. 595 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:10.920 We don't have a chapter at this time. We used 596 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.960 to at various points in time, but we do have 597 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:18.880 a few transhumanists residing in New Hampshire, and we welcome 598 00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:27.920 people organizing state level transhumanist parties in coordination with one another. 599 00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:33.639 I would say, if anybody wants to organize a transhumanist 600 00:42:33.679 --> 00:42:38.199 party in New Hampshire, please let me know and I 601 00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:39.559 will guide you through the steps. 602 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:42.719 Absolutely, I might have to reach out to you about that. 603 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:45.079 I might need to find a couple of other people, 604 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.119 because at the moment I think it would just be 605 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:49.960 just be me. But I might have to reach out 606 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:51.840 to you about that. I think this one would be 607 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:55.920 one I'd be interested in starting up. So I think 608 00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:57.719 when you're in the end of the interview now, I 609 00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.119 wanted to ask you beforehand, though, what are some of 610 00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.599 the biggest points of information that you feel like people 611 00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:07.039 miss about the Transhumanist Party. What are some of the 612 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.800 biggest takeaways you would want to leave an uninformed person 613 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:12.920 with about the Transhumanist Party. 614 00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:20.280 I would say, there's a misconception that transhumanism is somehow elitist, 615 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.840 and it's not. The vast majority of our members are 616 00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.559 middle class individuals, so we're not actually a party of 617 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.639 millionaires and billionaires. Sometimes I wish we had a bit 618 00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.400 more support from them, but they tend to go off 619 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:39.440 on their own and do their own things, on their 620 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:45.719 own projects, and they don't really participate in grassroots organizations, 621 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:51.800 where grassroots all volunteer organization. Most of our members are 622 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:59.599 middle class, so we generally represent people who have some 623 00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:05.079 sort of professional skill set and who do that in 624 00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:10.239 their daily lives, but they have an abiding interest in 625 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:14.480 the future of humanity and in various emerging technologies, and 626 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:18.920 they donate a lot of their time to the Transhumanist Party. 627 00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:23.159 And we also try to be maximally inclusive, so we 628 00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.239 have free events. We publish a lot of content online. 629 00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:31.480 Our weekly Virtual Enlightenment Salon streams every Sunday at one 630 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:36.199 pm Pacific time, or the various other interviews that we've 631 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:39.440 done or articles that are available on our website at 632 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:44.079 Transhumanist dash party dot org. We've held virtual concerts, We've 633 00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:50.039 made available a lot of transhumanist artworks, including artworks made 634 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:54.239 by Generative AI. We have our non political affiliate, which 635 00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:57.519 is called the transhuman Club, and you can visit the 636 00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:01.280 website of that at transhuman dot We have a discussion 637 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:05.840 for them there and we really want anybody to participate 638 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:11.320 who supports a brighter future for humankind. We think money 639 00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:14.119 should not be a barrier. We try to run as 640 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:17.800 many of our activities with no money at all, because 641 00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:24.000 we do see the digital age actually offering that as 642 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:29.320 a great way to empower people and provide them with 643 00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:34.679 avenues to express themselves and engage constructively in the political 644 00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:40.360 discourse without this monetary barrier that a lot of people lament. 645 00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:46.800 So transhumanism is not elitist. We try to actually bring 646 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.559 about the next era of humanity where there will be 647 00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:56.400 more opportunities and a brighter future for everybody. I would 648 00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:01.840 also say another misconception about transhumanism is that transhumanists somehow 649 00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:07.840 try to replace humanity. Actually we seek to bring out 650 00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:12.440 the best in humanity. So historically human beings have always 651 00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:17.400 strived to better their lives, to improve what

they're able 652 00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:20.320 to achieve, how long they live, how well they live. 653 00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:25.199 But we have been limited by aspects of our biology, 654 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:31.559 or by insufficiently advanced technology, or by our own cognitive biases, 655 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.599 by certain irrational tendencies that exist in the human psyche, 656 00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:41.400 and transhumanism tries to overcome those limitations to bring out 657 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:44.400 what is best in us as humans. But we want 658 00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:48.719 humans to continue to exist as individuals and if possible, 659 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:54.840 as biological entities, perhaps augmented by technology. But the vast 660 00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:58.679 majority of transhumanists they want to stay as themselves. They 661 00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:00.840 just don't want to die, and they don't want to 662 00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:07.039 be subject to frailty and disease and disability. So we 663 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:11.079 want humanity at its best, and we want to help 664 00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:12.639 as many humans as possible. 665 00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:16.960 Absolutely. I should note that I personally am fine with 666 00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:22.199 doing away with humans. I'm pro robots, pro replace everybody 667 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:22.840 with robots. 668 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:26.360 Personally we're pro robots as well, but we think humans 669 00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:30.599 and robots should coexist. And do some humans have cybernetic 670 00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:33.960 parts or artificial parts, Well, that's already happening. People have 671 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.920 artificial limbs, artificial hearts, hearing aids that interface with their brains. 672 00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.800 So we are in favor of essentially the broadest range 673 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:49.159 of sentient entities that can constructively interface with one another. 674 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:53.639 That would include robots, artificial intelligences. If we come into 675 00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:58.559 contact with extraterrestrial life forms, we contemplate that outcome in 676 00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:02.440 our transhumanist spill of Royes version three point zero. So 677 00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:10.320 we are for humanity continuing, but in this broader, let's say, 678 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:14.960 pantheon of sentient entities that are hopefully all going to 679 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.119 coexist and recognize one another's value. 680 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.960 Sure. Yeah, So is there anything else you would like 681 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.719 to plug before the end of the interview today. 682 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:32.199 I would encourage everyone to visit our website at transhumanists 683 00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:38.639 dash party dot org. We are also in the process 684 00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:43.840 of updating a transhumanist encyclopedia that has been in existence 685 00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.880 for a while, but I recently became the administrator of 686 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:52.360 it and it has been rebranded to Thhpdia. So thch 687 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:58.159 stands for Transhumanism and it can be access to thhdpedia 688 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.880 dot org, where it's essentially a wiki so people can 689 00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:09.480 contribute their own knowledge, and we seek a comprehensive, objective 690 00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:16.280 database of information about the transhumanist movement, its history, key figures, 691 00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.440 and opportunities for people to get involved. 692 00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:24.400 Absolutely, that's incredible. Well, thank you for coming on today, Jannati, 693 00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:30.400 Thank you Dominic. Hello everyone, welcome back to your latest 694 00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:33.199 episode of Futurologism, and today I have with us Janatti 695 00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:37.400 stoli Rov the second the chairman of the US Transhumanist Party. So, Jannatti, 696 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:38.760 would you like to introduce yourself? 697 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:43.679 Yes, thank you very much, Weenete for having me on 698 00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:47.079 this podcast. My name is Janatti Stolierov the Second and 699 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:51.119 I have led the US Transhumanist Party for just over 700 00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:55.440 eight years now, since November twenty sixteen. We stand for 701 00:49:55.639 --> 00:50:00.679 putting science, health, and technology at the forefront of American politics. 702 00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.480 I am a transhumanist, a proponent of radical life extension. 703 00:50:05.559 --> 00:50:08.639 I'm the author of Death Is Wrong, which is the 704 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.320 world's first and thus far only illustrated children's book on 705 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:20.360 radical life extension. I am also a philosopher, an actuary, composer, 706 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:25.039 an amateur mathematician, and I generally consider myself to be 707 00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.400 a renaissance man. So I don't define myself by one 708 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:32.639 particular pursuit or one particular set of talents. I'm interested 709 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:35.559 in the entirety of human endeavor and how it is 710 00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:38.440 interrelated and how it can help improve the human condition. 711 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.840 I love that energy. I love it. So I guess 712 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:43.840 my first question for you would be what drew you 713 00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:45.039 to transhumanism. 714 00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:50.000 Well, I have been an implicit transhumanist since I learned 715 00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:53.639 about human mortality, and my children's book Death Is Wrong 716 00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:00.000 describes that particular experience and how I had this

immediate 717 00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:04.920 yet visceral reaction. This is unjust people who have done 718 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:11.639 nothing wrong should not be condemned to the ultimate penalty. However, 719 00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:16.280 for some time I thought, while death should be defeated, 720 00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:21.480 the defeat of death would be in a further off future, 721 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:26.480 the future of science fiction, until in the year two 722 00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:29.760 thousand and four I learned about the work of doctor 723 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:34.039 Aubrey de Gray. At the time, Aubrey was working at 724 00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:39.280 Cambridge University. He had a website where I learned about 725 00:51:39.280 --> 00:51:44.920 the SENSE approach stands for Strategies for engineered negligible senescence, 726 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:49.440 and Aubrey de Gray laid out a very persuasive case 727 00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:53.960 for why we don't need to understand all of the 728 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:58.280 intricacies of human metabolism in order to be able to 729 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:03.440 undo the principal types of cellular and molecular damage. And 730 00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:09.480 he identified seven essential categories of such damage, which had 731 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:15.400 already been known by that time for at least twenty years. 732 00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:19.519 At this point, they've been known for at least forty years, 733 00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:24.760 and no new types of damage have been discovered since 734 00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:27.480 that time. Of course, there have been different taxonomies, different 735 00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:33.960 classifications of the same universe of aging related damage, but 736 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.440 this ought to be encouraging because we don't have to 737 00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:43.119 necessarily tinker with the process that brings about that damage. 738 00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:45.760 Just every ten or twenty years. We need to go 739 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:50.400 in with comprehensive rejuvenation therapies and reverse that damage, and 740 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:54.559 then we can become biologically younger as a result. That 741 00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:57.800 would give us time for more advances, and that would 742 00:52:58.199 --> 00:53:00.960 essentially set us on the path to what is called 743 00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:05.760 longevity escape velocity, where we stay ahead of this process 744 00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:10.239 of biological senescence. So when I learned about this in 745 00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.360 two thousand and four, I realized, well, we have a 746 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:17.199 fighting chance to defeat this great nemesis of death within 747 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:19.880 our lifetimes. And even if it's not a certainty, and 748 00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:24.840 it's not Aubrey de Grey's timeframes are probabilistic, we have it, 749 00:53:25.199

--> 00:53:27.440 I would say, as a moral imperative to try to 750 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:31.280 do something about it, because the alternative is we resign 751 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:37.519 ourselves to non existence. So that definitely affected the trajectory 752 00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:41.480 of my life, and I went on to discover a 753 00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:46.000 lot more transhumanist writings. For instance, Ray Kurtzweil's work I 754 00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:48.960 read The Singularity Is Near and some of his earlier books, 755 00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.159 The Age of Intelligent Machines, The Age of Spiritual machines, 756 00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:56.119 and I discovered the transhumanist community as well, so in 757 00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.880 some form I have been involved in it for two 758 00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:02.400 decades now, and it has been a growing community, but 759 00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:05.519 it certainly needs to grow more in order to influence 760 00:54:05.599 --> 00:54:09.079 the mainstream society and get the kind of public support 761 00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:14.159 that we need to viably reverse biological aging within our lifetimes. 762 00:54:14.679 --> 00:54:16.880 I'm curious to hear what do you think are the 763 00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:22.800 major barriers in place like preventing the masses from accepting transhumanism. 764 00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:27.440 I would say the main barrier is sheer unawareness. The 765 00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.519 fact is transhumanism is not yet a household word, even 766 00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:35.639 though many people now in the media, in academia, and 767 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:41.119 interestingly enough among politicians know what transhumanism is. But why 768 00:54:41.239 --> 00:54:44.880 is it less accessible to ordinary people? I would say 769 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:48.679 the main reason is life is hard and life is busy. 770 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:54.159 So it so happens that our society is structured in 771 00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:58.800 such a way as to deprive people of leisure time. 772 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:04.679 Not because us there aren't luxury goods, not because there 773 00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:10.320 aren't opportunities for entertainment. Indeed, compared to the former Soviet 774 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:13.719 Union where I grew up, luxury goods are cheap and 775 00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:18.559 accessible to the vast majority of Americans and other people 776 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:23.800 in the so called developed world. But what is actually 777 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:29.440 in some respects less accessible or at least very costly 778 00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:32.960 to obtain, are what I would call necessities, and in 779 00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:39.800 particular housing, healthcare, and education, and those necessities take up 780 00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.119 the vast majority of most people's time, most people's resources, 781 00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:48.440 because I would

contend those goods and services have been 782 00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:53.199 made artificially expensive by very bad policies over the past 783 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.440 fifty years, and as a result, a lot of people 784 00:55:56.960 --> 00:56:00.920 are essentially on this metaphorical tread mill where they have 785 00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:04.599 to go faster and faster and faster in fulfilling their 786 00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:09.039 obligations in their jobs or in other ways in which 787 00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:14.000 they acquire resources just to afford those necessities. The luxuries, 788 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:18.079 the entertainments. Those are fine. Most people can afford them, 789 00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:21.360 but they don't have the time to engage with them. 790 00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:25.840 So it takes actually a very special set of people 791 00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:29.960 to be able to carve out the time for intellectual exploration. 792 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.760 And I've been fortunate in my life, even though I'm 793 00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.920 not wealthy, to have structured it in such a way 794 00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:40.719 that I could seriously delve into ideas and essentially devote 795 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:44.000 a lot of my time to the life of the mind, 796 00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:48.400 even though I'm as busy professionally, and in many cases 797 00:56:48.440 --> 00:56:54.960 busier than most people are. However, I've made that concerted effort. Unfortunately, 798 00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:59.760 for many people that's just not a possibility, and we 799 00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:01.639 do we want to reach them. We do want to 800 00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:05.840 find creative, innovative ways for them to consider these ideas, 801 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:08.960 to take them seriously. But if they're worried about the 802 00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:12.559 costs of housing and healthcare, that is still a challenge, 803 00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.880 and that's a challenge that we also need to strive 804 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:20.320 to address as a political party, as the US Transhumanist Party. 805 00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:22.920 Yeah, I've had a conversation with one of my friends 806 00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:27.639 before about transhumanism, and yeah, it is a philosophical movement, 807 00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:30.400 but it is also a political movement. Do you feel 808 00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:32.960 as if the goals of transhumanism are a bit like 809 00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:37.519 too abstract or like seemingly far in the future to 810 00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:41.199 connect to, like you mentioned the day to day needs 811 00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:42.239 of people. 812 00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:46.840 Yes, well, as William Gibson said, the future is already here. 813 00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:52.880 It's just unevenly distributed, and we have wonderful technologies, both 814 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:58.039 long in existence and recently arrived. Generative AI is of 815 00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:02.639 course an example of the ladder. Many of these technologies 816 00:58:02.679 --> 00:58:07.320 are actually not that expensive to access or utilize, but again, 817 00:58:07.360 --> 00:58:11.440 they require time and they require awareness. And I think 818 00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:15.159 one other issue that we have had, even relative to 819 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:19.679 twenty years ago, is a hyper fragmentation of the media 820 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:23.519 and information landscape. I remember the days of the early 821 00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:26.960 Internet because I started out with my writing and my 822 00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:31.880 advocacy there, and the early Internet was more of a 823 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:38.199 kind of singular open space where everybody essentially could access 824 00:58:38.280 --> 00:58:41.719 the same resources. And the way you access to resource 825 00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:45.280 was you would type a URL, and many people did 826 00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:49.320 actually type the link into their browsers at the time. 827 00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:52.960 And it was sometime in the twenty tens that people 828 00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:55.960 started telling me, well, nobody is going to do that anymore. 829 00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:59.880 Nobody is going to take five seconds to type a URL. 830 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:03.159 You always have to get them to navigate to it 831 00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:08.159 with a single click. But these social media walled gardens, 832 00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:12.440 these platforms that were designed to keep people on them 833 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:18.880 and essentially locked within some fragment of the Internet, created 834 00:59:18.880 --> 00:59:21.559 a situation where something could be very prominent on one 835 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:25.480 platform and almost nobody on another platform knows about it. 836 00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:29.320 Somebody could be an online celebrity in one corner of 837 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:32.400 the Internet, and almost nobody knows about them in another 838 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:36.519 corner of the Internet or in physical space. So this 839 00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:41.960 has resulted in a situation where communicating a message to 840 00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:46.880 a large audience has actually become more difficult. But we 841 00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:50.880 have better technologies to do it. We can create more 842 00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:57.440 interesting content, more advanced content. I remember when on YouTube 843 00:59:57.920 --> 01:00:03.159 the main genre of video was essentially a person recording 844 01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:06.599 him or herself speaking in a similar manner as we're 845 01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:09.000 doing right now, the so called talking head video, and 846 01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:11.400 that was state of the art around two thousand and 847 01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:13.920 eight or so. And now we

have such a greater 848 01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.519 variety of content. But at the same time, you could 849 01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:21.559 have an excellent piece of multimedia content and it might 850 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.559 spread on some platforms, but people on other platforms won't 851 01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:28.599 know about it. So that really is another challenge that 852 01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:31.239 we need to overcome, and I would say a diversity 853 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:35.239 of approaches, the diversity of people within our movement, can 854 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:39.880 help bridge some of those chasms within the fragmented Internet. 855 01:00:41.039 --> 01:00:44.639 Thank you for bringing up generative AI. That actually leads 856 01:00:44.679 --> 01:00:47.480 us into another question I wanted to ask you. So 857 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.280 the party has been talking about AI for a while, 858 01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:55.360 like long before this current boom, I guess what are 859 01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:59.280 your thoughts on the current systems we're seeing in How 860 01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:03.360 do you think what is the transhumanist contribution to the 861 01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:05.440 current AI policy discourse? 862 01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:08.119 So, first of all, I think a lot of these 863 01:01:08.159 --> 01:01:14.760 systems are quite impressive. Most AI systems that have emerged 864 01:01:14.800 --> 01:01:18.960 into the public consciousness over the past two and a 865 01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:23.719 half years have been large language models and large language models. 866 01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:29.000 Simply by processing vast amounts of data and finding correlations 867 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:33.920 within the data and finding ways to alter those inputs 868 01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:38.039 into novel outputs, have been able to produce amazing results 869 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.599 in terms of writing, in terms of art, in terms 870 01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:44.280 of music. We ourselves on the Transhumanist Party, have used 871 01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:50.760 generative AI to create art and music that is inspired 872 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:54.679 by the ideas of transhumanism, and we've broadcast it on 873 01:01:54.800 --> 01:01:59.119 our weekly Virtual Enlightenment Salon streams every Sunday at one 874 01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:03.880 pm US specific time. So we see a lot of 875 01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:07.639 potential and also a lot of advancement over the time 876 01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:11.719 that those systems were around. I remember the Dolly two 877 01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:17.599 outputs of art, for instance, they were still pretty impressionistic, 878 01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:20.280 pretty fuzzy around the edges, leaving a lot of room 879 01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:23.800 for interpretation. A lot of strange elements that had to 880 01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:27.559 be corrected via manual edits. And now when you see 881 01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:35.079 Flux or Rock two or similar models that were released 882 01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:38.719 just earlier this year in twenty twenty four, there's a 883 01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:44.280 lot more precision. They can not just generate convincing natural 884 01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:49.239 landscapes or other kinds of rough looking features. They can 885 01:02:49.280 --> 01:02:55.400 now generate buildings with symmetrical windows and architectural features that 886 01:02:55.519 --> 01:02:59.559 make sense, which I thought would take quite a bit longer. Likewise, 887 01:02:59.599 --> 01:03:05.119 with U, I streamed just a week ago an AI 888 01:03:05.360 --> 01:03:10.000 Baroque grand concerto called the fifty two Weeks, with fifty 889 01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:14.760 two movements of Baroque music, all generated by AI. And 890 01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.960 while I thought previously well AI could generate pop music 891 01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:24.159 fairly convincingly because it's simpler, but with baroque or classical 892 01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:27.599 music it would take a lot more development. And yet 893 01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:31.599 music of those genres, while I would say it's still 894 01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:36.719 not equal to the great composers of history, is still 895 01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.519 quite good right now and quite enjoyable to listen to, 896 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:44.880 and it will only get better. So that is I 897 01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:48.000 would say a set of tools that has created an 898 01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:52.000 artistic renaissance, and of course has helped with communication. A 899 01:03:52.039 --> 01:03:55.199 lot of these generative AIS have been used to help 900 01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:58.400 people solve technical problems. They weren't very good at math 901 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:02.000 in twenty twenty two, but in twenty twenty four I 902 01:04:02.119 --> 01:04:06.920 gave chat GPT four to Zho some advanced calculus problems 903 01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.719 that it previously aired on, or at least the prior 904 01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:12.840 version of chat GPT aired on, and it solved them correctly, 905 01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:16.480 and it showed its work step by step. So progress 906 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:20.920 is happening. But I am inclined to agree with Peter 907 01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:25.679 Voss in thinking that large language models are not a 908 01:04:25.719 --> 01:04:30.960 pathway to artificial general intelligence or AGI. They're still narrow AI. 909 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:36.280 There's still tools, very powerful tools that enable us to 910 01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:42.519 create content and also to broaden our own range of creativity, 911 01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:47.039 because by recombining elements from vast data sets, they can 912 01:04:47.119 --> 01:04:50.480 come up with outputs that human beings probably would not 913 01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:54.920 have originated

themselves, just because they wouldn't have quite analyzed 914 01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:58.719 that space of content in the same way. So creativity 915 01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:03.760 is often just combination of existing elements in novel ways. 916 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:07.239 But that doesn't mean that these systems will be able 917 01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:12.119 to cross various domains of human endeavor on their own. 918 01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:16.199 So you could have a really proficient chess playing AI 919 01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:20.000 that beats every human, but it's not going to learn 920 01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:22.840 on its own how to drive an autonomous vehicle, and 921 01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:27.719 vice versa. A really safe, effective, proficient AI that can 922 01:05:27.800 --> 01:05:31.639 drive an autonomous vehicle really well prevent almost all accidents 923 01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:35.639 is not going to suddenly learn how to play chess 924 01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:39.480 or do backflips as some of the robots from Boston 925 01:05:39.559 --> 01:05:42.840 Dynamics have been able to do. Of course, you could 926 01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:48.679 create a system that combines multiple AI platforms into a 927 01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:51.719 suite of sorts. So you could have a Boston Dynamics 928 01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:55.840 robot with a CHET GPT interface and a text to 929 01:05:55.960 --> 01:05:59.760 voice interface, and say Wolf from Alpha for math, so 930 01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:04.199 that it becomes really proficient at mathematics. So you could 931 01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:10.079 combine a suite of AI models into something that presents 932 01:06:10.119 --> 01:06:15.480 itself as a multifaceted type of system, but still it 933 01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:18.559 will only work in the domains where it was programmed 934 01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:22.320 to work, and you need an entirely different architecture in 935 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.719 order to reach AGI. I still think that's about twenty 936 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.960 years away, So I think Ray Kurtzwel's timeframe of twenty 937 01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:35.599 forty five for the AI technological singularity is a reasonable one. 938 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:38.360 But of course huge progress is being made in AI, 939 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:40.639 and I think progress will be made on the path 940 01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:42.960 to AGI as well. I just don't think we're going 941 01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:44.519 to see it in the twenty twenties. 942 01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:49.320 How do you envision society changing after the technological singularity. 943 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:54.400 Well, one aspect of technological singularities is that they are 944 01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:57.960 event horizons. And I've spoken about this before. We've seen 945 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:02.440 three technological singularities in my view already as a species, 946 01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:09.239 the agricultural revolution,

the industrial revolution, and the information revolution 947 01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:13.000 of the mid to late twentieth century. And some of 948 01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:17.760 the most forward thinking minds of a given era can 949 01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:21.119 envision some possibilities in the next era. Like Leonardo da 950 01:07:21.199 --> 01:07:25.079 Vinci had designs for flying machines, but he could not 951 01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:30.960 have quite envisioned how commercial aviation unfolded during the twentieth century, 952 01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:34.119 and he certainly would not have been able to envision 953 01:07:34.400 --> 01:07:38.559 computers or the Internet or the kind of remote communication 954 01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:43.239 that we're engaging in right now. Henry Ford probably would 955 01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:47.920 have been baffled by social media. His mind just wasn't there. 956 01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:53.679 So in that future, after we have artificial general intelligences 957 01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:57.480 that can match or surpass human capabilities, some people today 958 01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:01.000 might have inklings of what that life be like, what 959 01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:04.880 that experience would be like, but we can't quite see 960 01:08:05.199 --> 01:08:08.960 the whole picture. And I think sometimes people have the 961 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:13.559 tendency to say, well, we'll keep everything else constant, everything 962 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.719 else about our lives, our experience of the world, but 963 01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:17.880 this one thing is going to change. And that's of 964 01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:22.119 course not how the future unfolds. So I see this 965 01:08:22.600 --> 01:08:27.560 technological singularity as a convergence of technological advancements, and these 966 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:31.880 will be in addition to advancements in AI, advancements in 967 01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:37.039 our knowledge of biology and biotechnology and medicine, and the 968 01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:41.880 embodiment of these AI systems and robots. So to really 969 01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:45.760 be autonomous participants in our society, they can't just be 970 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.800 systems on supercomputers. They would have to walk around and 971 01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:52.720 interact with us in physical space, so there would be 972 01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:58.600 android agis. Essentially, we would have advances in space travel 973 01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:02.680 already there have been remarkable advances, many of them driven 974 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:07.800 by Elon Musk and SpaceX. Hopefully we'll have settlements on 975 01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:11.760 other worlds as well. We will have different levels of 976 01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:17.119 technological adoption by societies and subcultures. Again, the future is 977 01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:21.279 already here, but it's just not evenly distributed. And as 978 01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:25.600 technologies advance, there will be more scope for choice as 979 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:29.600 to which technologies people choose to adopt, and which technologies 980 01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:32.640 some people choose not to adopt. Already, of course, there's 981 01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:35.680 a spectrum. Some people are early adopters of technology, some 982 01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:38.239 people are laggered. Some people even today prefer not to 983 01:09:38.319 --> 01:09:41.720 use computers. There are Amish people today who reject a 984 01:09:41.720 --> 01:09:45.079 lot of technologies from the twentieth century. And yet even 985 01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.279 many Amish people will say, of course we're going to 986 01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:51.239 use the medical system. We're going to go in for 987 01:09:51.399 --> 01:09:55.399 surgery if we have health problems, because they're not against 988 01:09:55.520 --> 01:09:59.760 all technologies. They just want to preserve a particular way 989 01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:03.399 of life, and they are reluctant to adopt technologies that 990 01:10:03.439 --> 01:10:07.119 conflict with that way of life. So one possibility that 991 01:10:07.199 --> 01:10:11.960 I see is actually a kind of hyper pluralism, a 992 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:17.960 flourishing of diversity of lifestyles and choices unlike anything that 993 01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:23.680 we've seen. If people think that today's let's say challenges 994 01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:29.239 where there are different attitudes or different lifestyles, or some 995 01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:33.560 people might still experience clashes with regard to ethnicity or 996 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:38.000 religion or gender. If they think that is a world 997 01:10:38.119 --> 01:10:41.439 of great diversity. They haven't seen anything yet. So at 998 01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:44.159 the point at which we have, say, many people with 999 01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:50.680 cyborg implants, people who have gotten various genetic enhancements through 1000 01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:55.439 gene therapies, for instance, people who live longer, some people 1001 01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:59.920 who have more strength, more endurance, more ability to achieve 1002 01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:03.640 certain physical feats, we are going to have an extensive 1003 01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:06.119 amount of diversity, and we are going to need to 1004 01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:10.399 have a common foundation for a society that allows all 1005 01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:14.479 of these beings, these sentient entities to flourish, whether or 1006 01:11:14.560 --> 01:11:15.239 not they're human. 1007 01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:18.880 By the way, that actually brings me back to sens 1008 01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:23.680 and your book, Don't Die. So you have this technological 1009 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:27.479 singularity as still decades in the future, what do you 1010 01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:33.079 see as

the most promising path to get to radical 1011 01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:34.319 life extension right now? 1012 01:11:35.239 --> 01:11:38.600 So, in terms of my book, Death Is Wrong, I 1013 01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:44.119 advocate for a biomedical rejuvenation approach. So I actually have 1014 01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:47.560 an appendix there for kids, by the way, about sense 1015 01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:52.039 and about the seven different types of aging related damage 1016 01:11:52.079 --> 01:11:56.000 that Aubrey De Gray identified. I think there's a lot 1017 01:11:56.199 --> 01:11:59.840 of need right now for more experiments in the lab, 1018 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:05.039 and this is an area where we need scientists and 1019 01:12:05.199 --> 01:12:09.520 benches essentially doing studies, and mice doing studies, and humans 1020 01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:14.840 doing studies and other organisms to see what interventions work, 1021 01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:20.319 both individually and in combination to extend lifespans significantly and 1022 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:23.880 extend markers of health as well. But those have to 1023 01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:27.399 be studied over the course of an entire lifespan, not 1024 01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:30.960 just say you have a finite duration of a study, 1025 01:12:31.079 --> 01:12:34.039 like say twenty four months, and then you see what 1026 01:12:34.159 --> 01:12:38.159 data you collect. And unfortunately, in many cases for these studies, 1027 01:12:38.199 --> 01:12:42.600 the mice or other experimental animals are euthanized afterward solely 1028 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:47.920 based on considerations of cost or some completely irrational default protocol. 1029 01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:52.600 You need studies that follow these animals to the very 1030 01:12:52.760 --> 01:12:57.920 end and figure out how long can these interventions actually 1031 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:01.439 make them live. So along these lines, the LVF, the 1032 01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:05.960 Longevity Escape Velocity Foundation, which is Aubrey de Gray's newest foundation, 1033 01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:10.760 is doing great work with the Robust Mouse Rejuvenation series 1034 01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:14.359 of studies. The first one is getting close to completion, 1035 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.960 though there are still eleven very long lived mice left 1036 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:20.760 out of one thousand as we're discussing this right now. 1037 01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:24.680 The second study is going to be launched very soon, 1038 01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:28.920 and I think that's crucial to generate the data for 1039 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:32.119 the AI systems to analyze, because of course the AI 1040 01:13:32.279 --> 01:13:37.239 systems can only derive insights from the material that they're given, 1041 01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:41.760 from the information that already exists, and somehow that information 1042 01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:44.640 has to be generated. So as the AI systems become 1043 01:13:44.960 --> 01:13:48.399 very powerful, they're only going to be able to use 1044 01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:55.359 their techniques on large volumes of data that were already 1045 01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:58.640 somehow created or provided to them. So one reason why 1046 01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:01.880 they are very effective with text or images or music 1047 01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:05.560 is because huge amounts of that kind of content have 1048 01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:09.279 been created. And of course there have been many scientific studies, 1049 01:14:09.800 --> 01:14:13.079 some better than others, by the way, some with more 1050 01:14:13.119 --> 01:14:17.319 accurate data than others, or superior methods than others. So 1051 01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:21.640 we're going to need to do more good fundamental science 1052 01:14:22.039 --> 01:14:24.960 to feed into the AI system so that they can 1053 01:14:25.479 --> 01:14:30.000 extract insights from that empirical work. But the need for 1054 01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:36.840 more biologists, the need for more empirical researchers of every stripe, 1055 01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:39.640 I would say has never been greater in order to 1056 01:14:40.000 --> 01:14:44.520 facilitate those breakthroughs. And I would also say, we are 1057 01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:50.319 going to have more personalized medicine, more personalized health tracking. 1058 01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:54.640 People will start to have a clear idea of what 1059 01:14:54.760 --> 01:14:58.159 is happening in their bodies in real time and be 1060 01:14:58.239 --> 01:15:02.560 able to respond rapidly. So you mentioned don't die. That's 1061 01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:08.720 Brian Johnson's motto, and his point is essentially, try to 1062 01:15:08.800 --> 01:15:12.960 keep yourself alive for as long as possible using the 1063 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:17.439 techniques available today. That could be healthy lifestyle, that could 1064 01:15:17.479 --> 01:15:21.159 also be through the use of technologies that help you 1065 01:15:21.279 --> 01:15:24.640 identify and solve problems. Because you want to stay alive 1066 01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.720 for these upcoming advances. You want to make it to 1067 01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:33.680 the technological singularity because the possibilities there for rejuvenating you 1068 01:15:34.000 --> 01:15:37.159 are going to be a lot greater than the possibilities 1069 01:15:37.199 --> 01:15:38.279 that exist today. 1070 01:15:39.079 --> 01:15:42.359 Yeah, my thought on that it is kind of late 1071 01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.720 in my time zone at the moment, So got ges 1072 01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:50.359 some turns mixed up. But so you are a renaissance man, 1073 01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:55.760 a polymass, and one of your disciplines is philosophy. If 1074 01:15:55.800 --> 01:15:59.039 you feel comfortable sharing, I guess what is like the 1075 01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:01.760 most unique

philosophical view that you hold. 1076 01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:09.359 I would say the most unique philosophical view that I hold, 1077 01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:15.840 and this is an overarching view that motivates essentially all 1078 01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:20.600 of my endeavors. I see humanity as being engaged in 1079 01:16:20.680 --> 01:16:24.800 this war on the forces of Ruin, as I call them, 1080 01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:28.800 and I have an essay from twenty twelve called the 1081 01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:34.279 Real War and why interhuman Wars are a Distraction. So, 1082 01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:40.840 in terms of my metaphysics and epistemology, I'm very closely 1083 01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:46.239 aligned with many of the philosophers of the Enlightenment, as 1084 01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:52.399 well as with the objectivists. I'm not dogmatic in my views, 1085 01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:56.399 but I do see fundamentally that there is an objective reality, 1086 01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:01.079 that it is at its base a material reality, and 1087 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:05.600 that it is fundamentally comprehensible through human reason. I think 1088 01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:11.359 in terms of ethics, I have this overarching concern with 1089 01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:15.439 defeating the forces of ruin, and I think it is 1090 01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:19.680 a moral imperative to do that. I am an individualist 1091 01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:23.760 ethically speaking, so I do think people should act in 1092 01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:28.199 their own enlightened best long term self interests, and there's 1093 01:17:28.239 --> 01:17:31.199 nothing wrong with that. And people should try to live 1094 01:17:31.239 --> 01:17:34.680 as long as possible, people should try to lead lives 1095 01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:38.319 of as high quality as possible. But in terms of 1096 01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:42.600 how do you spend your time, I would say fighting 1097 01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:48.119 the forces of ruin is such a strong imperative in 1098 01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:54.039 my view, and I see such a huge scope of 1099 01:17:54.159 --> 01:17:57.359 problems caused by the forces of ruin in the world 1100 01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:01.880 that we are going to be ocu pied in solving 1101 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:07.479 these problems for centuries, millennia even longer. Even if Ray 1102 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:11.239 Kurtzweld's time frame is correct, we reach the technological singularity 1103 01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:17.119 by twenty forty five, we can solve many of the 1104 01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:20.800 causes of aging we can live in Definitely, there is 1105 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:23.159 still so much work that will need to be done. 1106 01:18:23.239 --> 01:18:26.399 We will need to figure out how to prevent natural disasters. 1107 01:18:26.800 --> 01:18:31.399 We will need to prevent, say, asteroid impacts upon the Earth. 1108 01:18:31.479 --> 01:18:35.520 We will need to colonize other worlds, expand throughout the galaxy, 1109 01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:39.800 prevent the eventual destruction of our solar system or the 1110 01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:44.039 eventual destruction of our galaxy. So these are objectives that 1111 01:18:44.119 --> 01:18:47.840 are going to keep us busy for millions, maybe billions 1112 01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:50.720 of years. I want to be around to experience that. 1113 01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:55.439 But this war on ruin, I think is an animating 1114 01:18:55.880 --> 01:19:02.399 drive that I think all humanity really should exhibit, and 1115 01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:08.640 implicitly many people do every day. When they do strive 1116 01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:12.920 to secure the basic necessities of their lives, when they 1117 01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:16.760 strive to work at something, to achieve something, they're fighting 1118 01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.399 against the forces of ruin. They're holding the forces of 1119 01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:22.560 ruin at bay. But I think that recognition is not 1120 01:19:22.760 --> 01:19:25.079 as explicit as it should be, and as a result, 1121 01:19:25.119 --> 01:19:29.520 a lot of people engage in dissipative or suboptimal activities. 1122 01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:34.159 And I want to essentially alert humankind that we need 1123 01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:35.840 to redouble our efforts here. 1124 01:19:36.279 --> 01:19:39.600 Even if we do have radical life extension, I presume 1125 01:19:39.640 --> 01:19:43.000 the human body is just going to deteriorate at some point, 1126 01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:46.640 So I guess it's kind of a combined question like 1127 01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:50.960 what do you see as like the next step after 1128 01:19:51.640 --> 01:19:54.079 humanity or do you see it as like we'll just 1129 01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:56.960 keep rejuvenating our bodies, And what are your thoughts on 1130 01:19:57.039 --> 01:19:57.840 mind uploading. 1131 01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:03.159 I would prefer a conntinuous rejuvenation of the human body, 1132 01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:07.399 but of course there could be incremental enhancements along the way. 1133 01:20:07.800 --> 01:20:11.520 So we could figure out how to make our tissues 1134 01:20:11.600 --> 01:20:15.279 more durable so that our bones don't break as readily, 1135 01:20:15.840 --> 01:20:19.079 or for instance, our skin might become more resistant to 1136 01:20:19.239 --> 01:20:24.319 UV radiation, or our organs could regenerate in ways that 1137 01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:28.800 other animals already have the ability to do, and we 1138 01:20:28.880 --> 01:20:33.000 just need to figure out how to trigger that capacity 1139 01:20:33.039 --> 01:20:36.359 for regeneration in our own bodies, so all of that 1140 01:20:36.680 --> 01:20:40.560 would be different from the capabilities of current humans. I 1141 01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:45.600 would say, though, that with a combination of biomedical rejuvenation 1142 01:20:45.720 -->

01:20:49.439 and that kind of enhancement, we wouldn't cease to be humans, 1143 01:20:49.439 --> 01:20:53.159 and we wouldn't even cease to be biological humans. Though 1144 01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:57.159 of course in many respects we could have cybernetic enhancements 1145 01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:01.560 we already do. There are pacemakers, there are hearing aids 1146 01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.880 that interface with the brain. So those technologies will continue 1147 01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:10.479 to develop, And I would say what humans actually use 1148 01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:16.800 to supplement or let's say, reset the clock on their 1149 01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:20.520 biology is going to be more of a pragmatic consideration. 1150 01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:24.720 What works better. Would it be a gene therapy, some 1151 01:21:24.800 --> 01:21:29.199 sort of biological organ replacement, three D printing of an 1152 01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:32.800 organ that could replace an organ that's failing. Or could 1153 01:21:32.840 --> 01:21:35.760 it be an artificial organ, an artificial part of some 1154 01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:38.439 sort that might be better than a biological part. But 1155 01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:42.000 I would say, at every step along the way, it's 1156 01:21:42.039 --> 01:21:47.239 important to preserve a continuity of some aspects of the 1157 01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:51.960 human organism. So I have an essay about this from 1158 01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:56.399 twenty ten entitled how can I Live Forever? What does 1159 01:21:56.439 --> 01:22:00.159 and does not preserve the self? And in it very 1160 01:22:00.319 --> 01:22:05.199 much argue for an incrementalist approach. So I am not 1161 01:22:05.520 --> 01:22:09.199 a proponent of destructive mind uploading. I think if you 1162 01:22:09.800 --> 01:22:15.079 upload a mind into a digital substrate, you're essentially creating 1163 01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:18.880 a copy. And it would be like if a version 1164 01:22:18.920 --> 01:22:23.159 of you that was identical Adam by Adam were three 1165 01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:27.720 D printed right alongside you. And let's say everything went 1166 01:22:28.319 --> 01:22:32.039 exactly according to plan, and this person was an exact copy, 1167 01:22:32.399 --> 01:22:35.479 but he was just a few feet away from you, 1168 01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:37.920 and then he would go off having his own life, 1169 01:22:37.960 --> 01:22:42.000 his own experiences, and you would no longer see the 1170 01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:44.520 world through his vantage point. He would not see the 1171 01:22:44.520 --> 01:22:47.760 world through your vantage point. Though both of you would 1172 01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:50.159 say you had the same memories, you had the same past, 1173 01:22:50.720 --> 01:22:54.159 but this vantage point, what I call the inus, would 1174 01:22:54.159 --> 01:22:56.279 differ between the two of you, and it would be 1175 01:22:56.319 --> 01:22:59.239 the case with an uploaded mind as well. So I 1176 01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:05.079 don't deny the possibility of a non biological substrate being 1177 01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:10.439 able to essentially host a mind that would be conscious, 1178 01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:15.279 that would be an entity worthy of rights, an entity 1179 01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:19.640 with agency. So you could have those uploads, but I 1180 01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:22.279 think they would be copies, and I think preserving the 1181 01:23:22.319 --> 01:23:25.720 original would still be important. Now, gradual replacement of the 1182 01:23:25.760 --> 01:23:29.159 brain may be possible, and there have been scientists talking 1183 01:23:29.199 --> 01:23:34.039 about incremental replacement of biological brain tissues. Jean Abert, who 1184 01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:37.319 was recently appointed as one of the program managers of 1185 01:23:37.399 --> 01:23:41.640 our PAH, may actually have the chance to try out 1186 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.359 this approach and practice not too long from now. So 1187 01:23:45.880 --> 01:23:50.199 I'm very interested to see how that line of research goes. 1188 01:23:50.359 --> 01:23:53.880 But if you have a situation where let's say you 1189 01:23:53.920 --> 01:23:57.760 can graft an artificial neuron onto a biological brain and 1190 01:23:57.840 --> 01:24:01.279 it works at interfaces with the of the biological brain, 1191 01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:07.680 over time it becomes integrated into that organism essentially, and 1192 01:24:07.720 --> 01:24:11.279 then you keep doing that over and over again. Maybe 1193 01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:14.199 at some point in time you will end up with 1194 01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:17.399 an entirely artificial brain. But there needs to be this 1195 01:24:17.880 --> 01:24:22.800 continuity over a long period of time between the biological 1196 01:24:22.920 --> 01:24:27.239 brain and the eventual artificial brain, and all of the 1197 01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:32.239 functions would need to kind of be gradually assumed by 1198 01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:37.359 these artificial neurons. At the end of that process, maybe 1199 01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:40.680 there won't be biological components left, though there could be. Again, 1200 01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:43.840 maybe the biological components will be superior in some way, 1201 01:24:43.920 --> 01:24:46.960 or biological neurons could be re engineered in such a 1202 01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:51.119 way that you could graph those on to the brain instead. 1203 01:24:51.760 --> 01:24:53.920 But I would say, as long as you have the 1204 01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:58.600 continuity of vantage point, the continuity of inus, that being 1205 01:24:58.880 --> 01:25:02.119 is still going to be the same human. So we're 1206 01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:07.520 not going to just be some totally different entity. I 1207 01:25:07.520 --> 01:25:11.439 would say the goal is to preserve ourselves as individuals. 1208 01:25:11.439

--> 01:25:14.760 I'm an individualist, so I want to be me in 1209 01:25:14.800 --> 01:25:18.399 the future. Maybe my components are going to be different, 1210 01:25:18.439 --> 01:25:21.520 but I want there to be a clear path from 1211 01:25:21.560 --> 01:25:24.039 here to there without discontinuities. 1212 01:25:24.560 --> 01:25:27.680 That's the ship of the seas paradox. I Like, Yes, 1213 01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:33.119 transhumanism is often like classified under the broader posthumanism landscape, 1214 01:25:33.319 --> 01:25:36.199 but it seems as if posthumanism thought is kind of 1215 01:25:36.279 --> 01:25:41.319 diverging towards more imagining the future without humans. So I 1216 01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:43.520 guess how do you see that connection. 1217 01:25:44.079 --> 01:25:48.079 Yes, I would not consider myself to be a posthumanist. 1218 01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:52.159 I think we are going to be transhumans in the 1219 01:25:52.239 --> 01:25:56.560 sense that we will have more capabilities fewer limitations than 1220 01:25:56.640 --> 01:26:00.000 humans historically have had. But transhumans are still going to 1221 01:26:00.279 --> 01:26:05.680 be human. And I'm also a humanist. So some posthumanists, 1222 01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:09.279 especially academic posthumanists, will say that there's a need to 1223 01:26:09.319 --> 01:26:13.199 transcend humanism that humanism is somehow limiting, and I don't 1224 01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:17.159 believe that. I think humanism is still important. Respect for 1225 01:26:17.600 --> 01:26:24.439 basic human rights, human autonomy, self determination are essential. And furthermore, 1226 01:26:24.520 --> 01:26:29.920 the use of rationality, the application of rationality to solving 1227 01:26:30.000 --> 01:26:34.119 problems improving the quality of life, will remain paramount no 1228 01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:38.439 matter what our physical hardware is going to be. Now. 1229 01:26:38.800 --> 01:26:41.760 I have also stated in the future there will be 1230 01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:44.399 a diversity of sentient identities, not all of which will 1231 01:26:44.439 --> 01:26:47.960 be human, and the Transhumanist Party, in its Transhumanist Bill 1232 01:26:47.960 --> 01:26:51.520 of Rights Version three point zero, explicitly acknowledges this and 1233 01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:56.520 tries to prepare our society for a future where rights 1234 01:26:56.960 --> 01:27:00.479 would not be exclusively limited to humans. Since if we 1235 01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:06.279 have sentient agis, or if we have uplifted animals, I 1236 01:27:06.279 --> 01:27:09.000 think it may be possible. If it's possible to genetically 1237 01:27:09.079 --> 01:27:13.399 engineer greater intelligence and humans, why not genetically engineer greater 1238 01:27:13.479 --> 01:27:17.119 intelligence than other species of animals if we make contact 1239 01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:22.000 with extraterrestrial life forms. Some people think there has already

1240 01:27:22.039 --> 01:27:25.439 been some sort of contact. I'm a bit skeptical of that, 1241 01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.920 but I'm open to evidence in this regard. But I 1242 01:27:30.000 --> 01:27:34.760 would say if there is a possibility that we may 1243 01:27:34.880 --> 01:27:38.640 encounter other intelligent life forms. We need a framework of rights, 1244 01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:42.640 We need a framework of civil, constructive interaction with them 1245 01:27:42.920 --> 01:27:45.760 so that we don't end up in some sort of 1246 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:51.560 interspecies warfare, which is always counterproductive. So we will be 1247 01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:56.439 a future of other entities that are not human, that 1248 01:27:56.520 --> 01:27:59.840 are still sentient and sapient and worthy of rights. But 1249 01:28:00.119 --> 01:28:02.520 I hope that future will have humans in it as well. 1250 01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:06.239 I hope that future will have a broad spectrum of humans, 1251 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:09.960 ranging from people like the Amish who might still be 1252 01:28:10.079 --> 01:28:15.159 living in their communes centuries from now, to people who 1253 01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:20.840 avail themselves of the latest technological breakthroughs and enhancements. And 1254 01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:25.479 hopefully the Amish will participate in this future and utilize 1255 01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:29.000 some of these technologies as well. Fundamentally, I hope they 1256 01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:33.399 will accept longer lifespans, so they could live on their farms, 1257 01:28:33.479 --> 01:28:38.199 they could produce their craft furniture, ride around in their 1258 01:28:38.199 --> 01:28:40.840 horses and buggies, but they'll live for hundreds of years. 1259 01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:43.199 I want that kind of future, and I want a 1260 01:28:43.239 --> 01:28:47.159 future where people can choose any place along that spectrum 1261 01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:51.319 that they prefer based on their individual goals and aspirations. 1262 01:28:51.319 --> 01:28:55.319 And their values as the chairman of the party. For 1263 01:28:55.399 --> 01:28:58.800 those listening who might not be sold on transhumanism or 1264 01:28:59.239 --> 01:29:02.960 the Transhumanists Party's political goals, what would you say are 1265 01:29:03.079 --> 01:29:05.640 the major reasons they should look deeper into it? 1266 01:29:06.720 --> 01:29:10.079 Well, the major reason to look deeper into the Transhumanist 1267 01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:12.560 Party is that it offers a way out of this 1268 01:29:12.760 --> 01:29:17.000 quagmire that American politics finds itself in. We have been 1269 01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:21.920 so hyper polarized, especially over the past decade, that we've 1270 01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:28.319 literally had assassination attempts on presidential candidates, We've had violence 1271 01:29:28.359 --> 01:29:31.359 in the streets. We were inches away from a civil

1272 01:29:31.399 --> 01:29:34.079 war in this country. So it cannot continue that way. 1273 01:29:34.119 --> 01:29:37.600 And the reason for this polarization is this duopoly in 1274 01:29:37.680 --> 01:29:43.399 American politics utilizes a divide and rule tactic where the elites, 1275 01:29:43.399 --> 01:29:47.920 in order to fight their own internal battles, polarize fifty 1276 01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:52.039 percent of the population against the other fifty percent, generating 1277 01:29:52.079 --> 01:29:57.600 these vicious hatreds that undermine everyday life and everyday relationships, 1278 01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:02.960 family ties, friendships, what have you. And we need an alternative, 1279 01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:07.439 a more constructive vision of the future. Unfortunately, the postmodern 1280 01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:12.439 era in the twentieth century eroded a lot of the 1281 01:30:12.479 --> 01:30:15.840 sense of meaning that many people have historically had the 1282 01:30:15.880 --> 01:30:18.840 sense of purpose, that they've had to work for improvements 1283 01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:23.159 in their day to day lives. And because of postmodernism's 1284 01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:29.840 rejection of absolute truth and meaning and attempts to deconstruct 1285 01:30:29.960 --> 01:30:34.239 what we're considered to be various flawed narratives, essentially many 1286 01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:37.840 people were left adrift and we have, predominantly in the 1287 01:30:37.840 --> 01:30:41.840 Western world, a kind of culture of despair and nihilism 1288 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:45.560 and hopelessness and cynicism, and that needs to be overcome. 1289 01:30:45.920 --> 01:30:51.239 Transhumanism offers ways to overcome the polarization, to overcome the 1290 01:30:51.319 --> 01:30:58.000 meaninglessness and cynicism by again rekindling a confidence that technological 1291 01:30:58.279 --> 01:31:03.840 and moral progress and uplift people can improve living standards, 1292 01:31:03.880 --> 01:31:07.119 the length of life, the quality of life, the amount 1293 01:31:07.159 --> 01:31:11.279 of life spent in good health, all of those can 1294 01:31:11.359 --> 01:31:17.960 be dramatically better than what exists today. And also, this 1295 01:31:18.079 --> 01:31:22.039 war on ruin is very much a part of transhumanism. 1296 01:31:22.079 --> 01:31:26.680 I think people often do need a common enemy to 1297 01:31:26.800 --> 01:31:29.640 rally around, but we don't want that enemy to be 1298 01:31:29.760 --> 01:31:32.399 other people, because that can lead to a lot of 1299 01:31:32.840 --> 01:31:36.800 meaningless destruction. We want that enemy to be what actually 1300 01:31:36.880 --> 01:31:41.079 endangers human beings, and those forces of ruined death, disease decay, 1301 01:31:41.720 --> 01:31:46.960 natural disasters, threats from outer space like asteroids. Those are 1302 01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:50.439 the threats that can unite people. And it was mentioned 1303 01:31:50.439 --> 01:31:55.479 before sometimes people perceive transhumanism to be abstract, perhaps to 1304 01:31:55.600 --> 01:31:59.239 detach from their daily concerns, but when framed as a 1305 01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:02.600 war on rule, I think the day to day concerns 1306 01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:05.840 can be brought in as well. Whenever we work to 1307 01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:10.359 improve our immediate surroundings. Let's say there's a blighted neighborhood 1308 01:32:10.399 --> 01:32:13.880 somewhere and people are trying to rebuild it, that I 1309 01:32:13.920 --> 01:32:17.960 would say is also a transhumanistic endeavor. If you try 1310 01:32:17.960 --> 01:32:22.720 to find cheaper ways to house people, that's a transhumanistic endeavor, 1311 01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:26.960 particularly if you're using technology to do it. So I 1312 01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:33.319 think there is a huge scope for large numbers of 1313 01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:38.720 people to embrace transhumanism as the next paradigm of our civilization, 1314 01:32:38.840 --> 01:32:45.119 to essentially replace postmodernism and the meaninglessness and cynicism that 1315 01:32:45.119 --> 01:32:49.399 that paradigm has engendered, with a more hopeful paradigm, a 1316 01:32:49.439 --> 01:32:53.239 paradigm that people will be enthusiastic to work on. Behalf of. 1317 01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:58.039 What is your vision for the radical transformation of society? 1318 01:32:59.079 --> 01:33:03.119 Well, I would say the radical transformation of society will 1319 01:33:03.159 --> 01:33:08.279 be one where people will live much longer, so hopefully 1320 01:33:08.479 --> 01:33:13.239 we will be able to reverse biological aging within our lifetimes. 1321 01:33:13.479 --> 01:33:17.840 Aubrey De Grey's probabilistic timeframe is that there's about a 1322 01:33:17.920 --> 01:33:22.199 fifty percent probability of reaching longevity escape velocity within twelve 1323 01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:26.399 to fifteen years. I hope that also the radical transformation 1324 01:33:26.479 --> 01:33:30.800 of society will involve radical material abundance. So we talked 1325 01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:35.520 about how housing, healthcare, and education are quite expensive right 1326 01:33:35.560 --> 01:33:40.600 now in Western societies especially. I envision a future where 1327 01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:45.079 they will be basically free and free, not because there's 1328 01:33:45.119 --> 01:33:47.640 a law saying that they have to be free, but 1329 01:33:47.840 --> 01:33:51.960 free because they will be so cheap to produce that 1330 01:33:52.000 --> 01:33:54.119 you will be able to three D print a house 1331 01:33:54.359 --> 01:33:56.880 on the spot, that you will be able to have 1332 01:33:57.520 --> 01:34:02.359 Star Trek like tricorder technology that could diagnose and cure 1333 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:06.279 most afflictions. That you could learn anything you want to 1334 01:34:06.359 --> 01:34:09.840

learn for free, which already is starting to happen in 1335 01:34:09.920 --> 01:34:13.520 terms of education with online resources. It's just a matter 1336 01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:18.359 of getting the people who need those resources to have 1337 01:34:18.399 --> 01:34:23.119 the time and inclination and the awareness to utilize them. 1338 01:34:23.680 --> 01:34:28.319 But I envision a future where we will have radical longevity. 1339 01:34:28.520 --> 01:34:32.920 We will have radical abundance. We will have still accelerating progress, 1340 01:34:33.079 --> 01:34:36.680 and people will recognize that this life is precious, that 1341 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:39.640 it can continue to get better, but we also need 1342 01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:43.039 to keep fighting against the forces of ruin. So people 1343 01:34:43.079 --> 01:34:46.479 will not just become lazy. People will not just become 1344 01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:50.920 complacent because they have this radical abundance. People will realize 1345 01:34:51.439 --> 01:34:54.239 we're still very fragile no matter how far we advance. 1346 01:34:54.279 --> 01:34:58.159 We're dealing with cosmic threats. Now, we're dealing with threats 1347 01:34:58.640 --> 01:35:02.720 across millions of years of history, and we need to 1348 01:35:02.760 --> 01:35:07.479 prepare and we need to enhance our intelligence and enhance 1349 01:35:07.479 --> 01:35:10.039 our wisdom to be able to deal with ruin on 1350 01:35:10.479 --> 01:35:13.600 that scale. So there won't be a utopia by the way, 1351 01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:17.760 So radically transformed society will also be a society of 1352 01:35:17.840 --> 01:35:22.319 continuous transformation, continuous improvement. There won't ever be a time 1353 01:35:22.359 --> 01:35:26.840 when we say we've arrived. Even after this technological singularity. 1354 01:35:27.079 --> 01:35:31.000 It won't be like Francis Fukuyama's end of history, which 1355 01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:35.279 he infamously posited when the Soviet Union collapsed. While it 1356 01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:39.359 turns out history is back with a vengeance, and history 1357 01:35:39.399 --> 01:35:44.560 is going to continue to unfold after the next technological singularity, 1358 01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:49.159 there may be various other technological singularities beyond it, so 1359 01:35:49.640 --> 01:35:53.640 it will always be a dynamic society, a dynamic civilization. 1360 01:35:54.039 --> 01:35:58.000 I just hope that it is a civilization that embraces 1361 01:35:58.079 --> 01:36:03.039 this transhumanist principle of boundless expansion that Max Moore and 1362 01:36:03.079 --> 01:36:07.399 the extropians wrote about in the nineteen nineties. That's the 1363 01:36:07.479 --> 01:36:09.239 kind of future I want to participate in. 1364 01:36:10.439 --> 01:36:13.600 That is quite the compelling vision. I'm ready to join 1365 01:36:13.640 --> 01:36:14.359 your simulation. 1366 01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:17.000 Well, thank you. 1367 01:36:17.359 --> 01:36:21.359 Do you want to link to any of your socials 1368 01:36:21.520 --> 01:36:24.079 or how to purchase your book any website? 1369 01:36:24.560 --> 01:36:27.800 Absolutely so, Death is Wrong as my illustrated children's book 1370 01:36:27.800 --> 01:36:32.119 on radical life extension. You can purchase it on Amazon, 1371 01:36:32.479 --> 01:36:36.279 or you can go to my website, The Rational Argumentator, 1372 01:36:36.359 --> 01:36:40.239 which is rational Argumentator dot com and you can get 1373 01:36:40.239 --> 01:36:46.520 a PDF version of it in five languages, English, Spanish, French, 1374 01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:49.800 Portuguese and Russian. You can also find a lot of 1375 01:36:49.800 --> 01:36:54.680 my other writings and musical compositions on The Rational Argumentator 1376 01:36:54.760 --> 01:36:58.079 for free. Of course, please visit the Transhumanist Party website 1377 01:36:58.159 --> 01:37:02.279 Transhumanist dash party dot org. We have a Facebook page 1378 01:37:02.319 --> 01:37:05.319 called us Transhumanist Party We have a Facebook group called 1379 01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:11.239 Transhumanist Party. We are on x as us Transhumanist. We 1380 01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:14.359 are also now on Blue Sky. Our account there is 1381 01:37:14.800 --> 01:37:18.880 just called Transhumanist and we are on Instagram as us 1382 01:37:18.920 --> 01:37:23.119 Transhumanist Party. You can find me on Instagram as well. 1383 01:37:23.159 --> 01:37:26.800 I post a lot of AI generated and human generated 1384 01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:31.479 art there on my Instagram profile, so there are many 1385 01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:36.840 ways to connect with me. Also, please do check out 1386 01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:41.680 our Virtual Enlightenment Salon series. Those are on my YouTube 1387 01:37:41.760 --> 01:37:46.840 channel at YouTube dot com slash g Stolierov with two 1388 01:37:47.279 --> 01:37:50.439 capital eyes afterwards. So that's the first letter of my 1389 01:37:50.479 --> 01:37:53.720 first name my last name followed by the second. Every 1390 01:37:53.760 --> 01:37:57.439 Sunday at one pm Pacific time, we will stream a 1391 01:37:57.439 --> 01:38:01.239 salon of about an hour and fifty three minutes where 1392 01:38:01.239 --> 01:38:06.600 we have intellectual conversations. We will also sometimes have virtual 1393 01:38:06.640 --> 01:38:14.000 concerts or streams of video presentations about various aspects affecting 1394 01:38:14.039 --> 01:39:46.640 the future of humanity. 1395 01:39:00.520 --> 01:42:04.520 From them, they di with the the the atttt. 1396 01:42:44.279 --> 01:46:48.399 B b b y y u unc cock cock cock, 1397 01:47:06.399 --> 01:47:25.800 the delight and. 1398 01:47:33.199 --> 01:48:07.399 The warm wind warm warm w were no ward wanted, 1399 01:48:07.560 --> 01:48:17.840 there no war, no wind, while no wom wander, no 1400 01:48:21.479 --> 01:48:28.119 never want a wild I don't want I don't want 1401 01:48:28.119 --> 01:48:28.960 to know. 1402 01:48:37.319 --> 01:48:42.640 No Wan Wow 1403 01:49:10.199 --> 01:49:14.159 In the in