S2E53 - Nick Hammann: Shared Struggles, Unanswered Questions, and a Brother's Grief의 전체 녹취록

good trouble though. 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.839 You know, it's like none of these are bad memories. 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:54.160 I like every one of them puts a smile on my face, you know, just remembering all the good times we had. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.319 And he used to call me up and guilt trip me into hanging out with him. 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:07.839 I, you know, I I got out of high school, I graduated and started a career right away, got married, had it my first kid by the time I was 19. 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:08.879 My first son was born. 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:10.240 I got married at 18. 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:12.560 And Nick would call me up, you know. 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:14.319 Eric, you never hang out with me. 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:15.439 You come hang out with me. 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.439 Well, Nick, I'm gotta be to work. 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:19.839 I gotta be up at four to be to work, you know. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.279 I'm working 10-hour days, six days a week. 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:29.519 And he would guilt trick me into coming out and having a drink with them or going down to the river and having a big fire with them. 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:31.680 And, you know, just, oh, I miss hanging out with you. 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.360 Like you we never hang out anymore. 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:37.519 He he was just very charismatic, I guess is a good way to put it. 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:40.240 Um, help our listeners understand the timeline. 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:47.040 And I think you've been very transparent um with your struggles and things that have gone on in your life, which we really appreciate. 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:56.000 And help us understand the timeline of when you left and when you returned as far as that in connection with his homicide. 00:05:56.319 --> 00:06:06.480 From probably uh roughly 2010 or 2011 till like 2015 or 16. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:16.240 Um, Nick and I were both running pretty hard and using drugs, and we ran with the same circle of people a lot of the time. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.439 Uh Nick lived with me for a little while in that off and on for a couple of years. 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:24.720 And I believe it was 2017. 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:34.399 I was indicted on federal charges for selling drugs, and I got sentenced to a 66-month sentence in the federal prison system. 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:44.160 I think it was March, the beginning, end of April, or end of February, beginning of March, when I went to prison of 2018. 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:49.759 I got immediate release due to some legislation that had gone through. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:54.800 I think the first step back went through and I got immediate release in January of 22. 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:59.279 Um, when I got out, Nick reached out to me and was like, hey, do you need clothes? 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:00.000 Do you need this? 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:01.120 Do you need anything? 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:02.240 Let me know. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:03.759 And I was like, no, I'm good. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:04.959 You know, I went back to work. 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:10.000 I'm a union pipe fitter by trade, so I had got right back into the union and working. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:15.040 Nick would call me every few weeks or a month and check on me to see if I needed anything. 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:24.000 And then he was, it was apparent at that time he was still using and he had active warrants, and he wanted to meet up, and I told him I couldn't. 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.319 I was on federal probation. 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:35.040 And probably June or July, he called me and told me that he had gotten his warrants taken care of, and he was still using. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:42.800 And I was like, I still don't feel comfortable meeting up with you until you know you're clean, and because he had told me that he was gonna start trying to get clean. 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:47.839 And so I want to say it was maybe in July sometime. 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:52.240 He told me that he started going to a methadone clinic and was getting clean. 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:55.279 And I was like, Great, you know, that's awesome. 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:56.240 I'm proud of you. 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:57.040 Let's do this. 00:07:57.120 --> 00:07:58.639 You know, if you need anything, call me. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:11.279 He called me, I think it was like the 9th through the 13th, somewhere in there of September, and was like, hey, you know, I've been clean for I think he told me it was six weeks at that time. 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.040 And uh he's like, Can we meet up and have dinner? 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.399 He's like, I really want you to meet my girlfriend at the time. 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.000 And I was in Eastern Oregon elk hunting. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:32.159 I told him, Yeah, you know, I think I was hunting, I was coming back on, I think it was like Monday the 26th or something of September was when I was gonna be coming back into town. 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:35.759 And so I told him, Yeah, I'll be back this week on Monday. 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.360 Let's get together that next weekend and have dinner. 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.039 And so we're gonna meet up. 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.600 I think it was Friday night, Friday night or Saturday night, we're gonna meet up. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.559 Anyways, he didn't uh didn't call me, didn't reach out at all. 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.320 I just kind of assumed that maybe he flaked out on me, which it wasn't, you know, uncommon. 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.759 I you know, that wasn't any wouldn't have been anything out of the norm. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.080 So I I just went through my normal weekend. 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:25.200 I went to work on Monday, and I started getting all these voicemails, and so then my dad called me and was and told me that, hey, Nick was killed this

weekend, kind of went through and told me that you know nobody had reached out and notified my parents that my that Nick's girlfriend reached out to my mom and was like, hey, I think Nick was shot. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:30.240 I don't know, but he's been gone, I think, since Friday night he left and never came back. 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:40.480 And my mom had to call around and find him in the morgue, and it just completely, I mean, caught all of us off guard. 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:40.879 I think. 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:56.320 I I know that Nick hadn't been in touch with many people uh up until that point, but like I said, him and I were were supposed to tentatively have dinner that weekend, and that just kind of I mean, I I just remember standing there just in dis disbelief. 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:13.200 Nick was one of those guys that like I I almost like it seemed like he was made of rubber, like nothing ever happened bad to him, like he he went through some bad stuff, but he always came out on the other side unscratched. 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.639 And so it it just really I'm still kind of in disbelief of the whole thing. 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:31.360 Were there periods of time when you felt like things were going really well and other periods where things were difficult, or did it feel like it was maybe kind of rocky all the time? 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.039 What it what's your recollection? 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.120 As far as periods of time before that, or yeah, just for him. 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:46.799 Like, were there times when he was reaching out and seemed to be doing really well, and then times where maybe he would kind of fall off the radar for a little bit? 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.200 He would he would fall off the radar. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:11:14.720 It's hard to say because every time Nick called me, it he would put on and and make it sound like he's doing really well and has all these great opportunities coming, and you know, I'm working for this guy and he's paying me this much and I'm doing this, and uh, but it was still it was still hard to to judge because I I knew the life that Nick was living and I knew that the life that Nick was comfortable living. 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:24.080 And so coming from him, you know, talking about doing really well, like I still knew like the other side of it. 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:39.120 I knew even when he told me that he was doing really well and got a job and he's working and he's you know rebuilding this trailer or he's working for this guy, you know, rebuilding total cars, that he was still in the lifestyle that he was living. 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:45.200 I remember back to when he joined the Marines and and was leaving for the Marines. 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:56.320 It was, you know, he got pulled over, and I think he got like two DUIs in a 24-hour period, and he talked his way out of them because he was leaving for the Marines. 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:04.320 And it was

just getting his carefree attitude at times have has gotten a little reckless for him. 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:15.679 But at the same time, he was he was one of those guys that was just so charismatic and fun to be around that it's like it was hard to to focus on, hey, you're being reckless, and it's like, hey, you're just really fun and having a great time. 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:17.919 It was hard to differentiate the two. 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:23.679 What can you tell us about what Nick was doing, like maybe uh just uh even just a few hours before the shooting? 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:34.080 All I know from that time period was that he had gone down to he had to move his trailer that he was rebuilding or something. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.840 So he had gone down to the trailer to work on on that. 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.320 That that's all I know of that whole time period. 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:46.240 And then I do know that the trailer disappeared before anybody could find it, and it took I don't even remember the time frame on that. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:52.240 It was a long time before the the trailer was even found, and it was like being rented out to somebody else. 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.679 They couldn't figure out who was renting it to the people that were living in it. 00:12:55.840 --> 00:13:09.600 They I know that they did recover the trailer, and I believe that the guy who had had like traded it to Nick for work or whatever, sold it to Nick, or he ended up with it back, I believe. 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.240 Yeah, I was told it was actually in pretty bad shape too. 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.320 Yeah, and I'm not sure. 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.360 Like, I I think that Nick had done a lot of work to it. 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:24.960 Like he had sent me pictures of it at one time of that and a truck that he had, and I don't know, I don't know whatever happened to the truck that he had either. 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:29.120 Do you know anything about any maybe recent disputes or conflicts he was having? 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:31.120 Nothing that he told me about. 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:35.279 I did talk to some people that I knew that Nick knew. 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:56.080 There was a couple of people that told me a story about Nick had maybe cashed a lottery ticket, like a Oregon video lottery ticket for one of his friends who is a drug dealer, because that guy had taken it on a front to hold from some other people, and then he paid Nick to cash it. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:24.320 And I can't remember the guy's name, but I actually talked to him at one point and he he did confirm that Nick cashed a lottery ticket for him and that he paid him, gave him like six hundred and fifty dollars to cash it, and then gave him another hundred and fifty dollars to gamble with because the people that had won the money that it was at night, they didn't couldn't get to a it was like sixty five hundred dollars or something, they couldn't get it cashed that night, so they gave it to their drug dealer to hold on to. 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:31.679 Their drug dealer decided to rip them off and pay basically paid Nick to use his ID to cash it. 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:36.000 Like I said, that's just that's a story that I've been told a couple of different times. 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:38.559 I haven't like tried to verify it on my own. 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:46.000 I tried I talked to some people that knew Nick pretty well, but I tried to stay kind of removed from it. 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.279 Like I said, I I was still on federal probation at this time. 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:55.039 So I didn't, I want to be careful about who I was even talking to or around. 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.799 But that's the only story that I came up and was told. 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:07.600 We also know there was there was a number of other shootings or violent incidents that night, but we haven't been able to confirm any relationship between those. 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:08.960 Do you know anything about that? 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:14.159 No, I do know that there was, I believe, four murders that weekend. 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:19.039 I think it was two other shootings and maybe a stabbing. 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:26.559 And I think that two, if not three, of the other murders were solved. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:32.639 I I think that Nick's murder is the last one from that weekend that remained unsolved. 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:34.320 That's very interesting. 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:38.480 That definitely gives me something to kind of dig deeper into. 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:48.399 I do remember in some of the information that Tony sent us that there had been four that particular night within a 24-hour period. 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:53.279 And I do find it interesting that the the one is unsolved and and the others are not. 00:15:53.360 --> 00:16:00.559 But I think that's something for me personally to look further into as far as who those people were and and who the perpetrators were. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:08.480 Earlier you said uh something to the effect of the uh the situation that Nick was comfortable living in. 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:10.000 Can you talk more about that? 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:17.919 You know, he went to Alaska and he fished for a while and he would make a bunch of money and he'd come back and he would party until he was broke. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.759 He would just make money any way that he could. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.879 He'd never like, I guess, trying to get into a career. 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.200 He would just do what he had to do to make money. 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.720 You know, there were times where both him and I were selling drugs. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:38.159 There was a time where he was basically running a a chop shop. 00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:52.159 There was it's just a it's a whole lifestyle, I guess, when you're running with the type of people that

use and sell drugs, and getting comfortable in that lifestyle is never a good thing. 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:58.159 Like I said, Nick was charismatic and fun to be around, and he he was comfortable around anybody. 00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:06.640 He he didn't care what anybody did or or who they were, he, you know, would do whatever just to fit in. 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:12.640 I don't think he ever looked at it like, hey, I need to get out of this life. 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:20.160 He just wanted to do better in his life as far as make more money and be able to afford the things that he wanted. 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:26.960 But it wasn't like, hey, I need to not hang out with these people, I need to not be around these people. 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.799 It was just, I just want to be do better, you know. 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:38.000 Yeah, it's interesting you say it that way because you know, obviously we've had a lot of conversations and stories related to things like this. 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:44.799 And it's it's been interesting to hear it's a it's a lifestyle we're not familiar with. 00:17:45.839 --> 00:18:08.559 And we've definitely seen the the damage it can cause, and we've seen how it becomes kind of the normal for people, even though to someone who's hasn't been involved with it, does it doesn't it it feels like anything but normal and it feels dangerous, and so um it's one of those things that it it's amazing to me. 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:15.839 I mean, amazing may not be the right word, but how that level of danger can become normal and not be as intimidating. 00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:26.400 Yeah, and that's you know, there was a period of time where Nick and I were both living in hotels while we were selling drugs and just kind of bouncing from hotel to hotel. 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.240 You know, you go rent a room for a week here or stay at this hotel for a month. 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.480 You know, so I've been on I've been on both sides of the life. 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.319 I I I got like I was saying earlier, I got married right out of high school. 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:49.920 I, you know, got a career started right out of high school, and then mid to late 20s, I started living that life and got comfortable in that life for a long time. 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:56.480 And then when I got clean, I realized like I need to be out of this life, away from these people. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:08.400 Nick uh kind of got into that life, and even when he was in the Marines, he still hung out with the same people, even though he was trying to do better for himself and do and live a better life. 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:16.400 He never made the connection to like, hey, it's it's the people and lifestyle I need to get away from if I want to do better. 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:28.000 And I think that that might stem back to, you know, you get comfortable around a certain group of people or uh that you know, and you don't want to necessarily leave them. 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:40.160 I know that that this time since I've been out of prison, I've like I knew right away I I can't go back to the same people that I was hanging out with or the same types of people I was hanging out with because I don't want to go back to prison. 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:47.599 Um, and that's why when I Nick and I would talk, I'd tell him straight up, you know, hey, you've got active warrants. 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.119 I I can't be around you. 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:56.559 I I would love to come see you, but until this is taken care of, I I can't be seen with you, you know. 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:08.960 And even after he got his warrants taken care of and he was still using drugs, I I didn't want to be around somebody that was loaded, I didn't want to be around drugs because I I didn't want to go back to that lifestyle. 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.400 And I think that Nick would have figured that out eventually. 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:20.400 I don't think that he ever did is the problem, and and he was just comfortable with what he was comfortable with. 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:37.359 It makes me think about uh Haley Athey, who is uh originally was missing, actually up in the Pacific Northwest, and her every story that we have covered has someone who's like the fierce person looking for their loved one, missing person, or really working towards some kind of resolution. 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.720 And Haley's best one is Shasta, and Shasta describes to us a lot about what you're describing. 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:56.799 Shasta was very clear with you know her addiction problems and and once she was able to come through to the other side, her just deep desire to support Haley to actually, you know, make that break or see the lifestyle change. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.799 And unfortunately for Haley, it just it just didn't happen in a quick enough timeline, much what you're describing. 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.279 So we we've heard this and it's just so sad every time we hear it. 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:09.119 It's like we need to do better. 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:19.680 So I want to ask you is there anything about Nick's struggles that you think has been misunderstood or unfairly portrayed since his death? 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:24.480 No, I think that the the one that that gets me is Nick. 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:32.240 I feel like he was just really starting the path to where he would have eventually figured this out. 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.119 It it's a hard road and it takes time. 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:55.680 And like, you know, I spent 40 almost 48 months in federal prison before like I realized probably halfway through that hey, I don't want to go back to this lifestyle because it took it takes a year or two of being substance free for your brain to really start functioning right again. 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.000 And that first year or two is when you need all the support and help you

can get. 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:16.880 And the hard part is is it's not necessarily the loved ones that you know you my mom was has always supported Nick in everything, you know, she's always been there for him and to help him. 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:23.119 And what people don't realize is that's that's not like it that's great. 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:27.359 You need the family there supporting you, but it takes time. 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:37.359 And if Nick had gotten the time under his belt uh to start thinking clearly I think that things would have been different. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.359 That like I said can take a year, two years. 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:47.359 Even when I got out of prison, like I was pretty clear headed about hey I don't want to do this anymore. 00:22:47.519 --> 00:23:05.039 And I still for the first couple years I was going to NA meetings three, four, sometimes five days a week I started working uh with a couple of programs um doing uh prison and jail reentry to work with addicts getting out of institutions. 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:15.599 And I did that for the first two years and just to kind of show help show people like it this is it can be done. 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:30.880 You know it it it takes time and I wish I could have done more of that for Nick had this not had happened you know um when it did it happened so close to when he was really trying to take the steps to get clean. 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:38.640 And that's what people people need to realize like just because somebody's you know using drugs doesn't make him a bad person. 00:23:38.799 --> 00:24:14.720 Sometimes drug addicts do bad things but that doesn't necessarily make them a bad person either and like Nick would give somebody the shirt off his back without questioning it but not every you know not everything he did was on the up and up I guess he's still a good guy a good person but drugs in the system will change people and changes the way you think it changes the way your brain works and the the biggest thing is like that I I think people need to realize is family being supportive is 100% needed but it's not what's gonna get somebody there. 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:21.039 They need support of people that know and have been through what they've been through. 00:24:21.359 --> 00:25:06.400 Based on what you said I mean you talked about you know doing things they wouldn't necessarily be proud of and is there any evidence that you believe that Nick was specifically targeted targeted or do you think it may have been random I don't believe that it was random at all I know that from what I've been told the video footage you know shows the car a car pull into the parking lot and start shooting at Nick he drove off and they followed him shooting all like a I think a half mile up the street or a quarter mile up the street they found shell casings and then he turned around and came back down the same street and when he got down to Sandy is where the car just

kind of rolled to the stop against the curb and he was dead. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:11.359 If it was a random act I don't think that they would have followed him out of the parking lot even. 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:21.920 What has it been like watching Tony and the rest of your family live without knowing really what happened to Nick or why it's been heartbreaking for me. 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.039 My mom is the sweetest lady ever. 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:30.559 I love her so much and it is heartbreaking to see her go through this. 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:38.240 She has not given up hope that they're gonna find whoever did it she posts flyers online. 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:47.119 She goes out and hangs flyers um my dad would drive her over to Portland and she'll go talk to people she's she's not scared at all. 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:56.240 She'll just go up and talk to random people on the side of the street and give them flyers and ask them questions and yeah it's it's been really hard to see her going through this. 00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:39.279 All everybody but especially her you know because like I said she's the sweetest lady ever and yeah it's it's heartbreaking it it I I don't like and seeing anybody go through it but it really hits close to home when it's this yeah and in a sense I would never say that I I understand how you feel but we can say that we are also in that place with Michael's uncle's unsolved homicide and his mom who is I believe in her 80s at this point and there's now this urgency even more than there was before 12 years ago when he was killed to to get something done before she passes away. 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:50.000 And can we get somebody you know held accountable for Jody's murder so we we're in the same place that you are with that and watching family members struggle. 00:26:50.480 --> 00:27:46.400 Are there particular days or places or moments where his absence feels particularly strong to you know it what my nephew that my mom and dad are raising little Nick we call him he's not so little he's gotta be six four now he's you know tall with as little time as Nick and little Nick have spent together it absolutely blows my mind that they have the same mannerisms they the same looks on their face they are so much alike and little Nick will come out to the shop to help me you know see if I need any help working on my truck or just whatever just come out to say hi and the way he stands the way he walks the way he facial expressions he makes just remind me so much of his dad and everything about him it's crazy. 00:27:46.720 --> 00:28:03.200 It's like one of those cases where there is zero doubt like if I had never met him until he was 20 or you know he's 18 now but if I had never met him until now I would know right away you're your dad's son. 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.920 There's not a doubt in my mind. 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:28.079 I mean it doesn't hurt that he looks exactly like him but he that with the mannerisms, the facial expressions the way he talks the way he moves it and it's hard because Nick was always out there helping me you know or trying to help me or offering to help me work on rigs or do whatever they're just so much alike it's crazy. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:41.440 So we will be sharing your conversation and as well the as well as the other conversations that we have with your family members in the Portland area through our Facebook and social medias. 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:50.000 And if you could say something directly to someone who might be listening who may have some information about what happened to Nick, what would you want them to hear? 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:54.079 I just want anybody that knows anything to come forward. 00:28:54.319 --> 00:29:47.359 Up until this happened to us and and my family I never understood the whole and I I hate using the word closure because it's never going to bring closure but the not knowing really is hard on the people left behind and that's the heartbreaking part to me that not having that information not knowing not knowing what it was about not knowing what caused it not knowing who did it or why they did it you know why why did Nick lose his life that night and it it doesn't it won't change anything I know this everybody should ever I think everybody knows this but it won't change anything that has happened it'll change the lives of the people going forward that are still living going forward. 00:29:47.519 --> 00:30:03.440 Just come forward and say say what you know say what you've heard even if it's secondhand information tell somebody I I I've made posts on online on social media like if you don't want to go to the cops call me. 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:18.880 Come reach out to me just tell me you know obviously needs to go to the cops but I get a lot of people in that in that life are the last thing they're gonna do is go talk to the cops but it is something that's needed. 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:43.039 Nick's missed by a lot of people I still run into people on occasion that are you know ever every time I run into somebody that knew Nick they're they want to talk about him you've been listening to Tragedy a true crime podcast our purpose is to honor victims by sharing their stories through the voices of friends, family and those whose lives were forever changed. 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:53.920 If today's episode resonated with you we encourage you to subscribe leave a review and share the podcast so these important stories continue to be heard. 00:30:54.400 --> 00:31:00.000 Together we can preserve their memories and ensure their voices are never forgotten. 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:25.599 If you have ideas for cases we should cover or questions about what you heard you can connect with us through our Facebook group Tragedy a True Crime Podcast on X at Tragedy Podcast by email at Tragedy a True Crime Podcast at gmail dot com or by visiting our website www dotyatrucrime podcast dot com. 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.079 Thank you for listening and we hope you'll join us next time