EP 146: When Your Language Doesn't Show Everything You Know with Douglas Brewer의 전체 녹취록

00:05:32.560 And you know, take your time answering these questions. 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:39.680 I think basically I want to get to know, I want my audience to get to know who you are beyond the labels and the titles. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:43.920 Well, it's a great question and a great way to start. 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:48.639 I I've often said that I feel like my life is a series of happy tangents. 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:54.879 Like things have just happened in my life, and I've been like, oh, this seems like an interesting opportunity, and then I've moved forward there. 00:05:55.279 --> 00:06:00.800 So I've been very privileged in that regard to be able to have opportunities and then do something with them. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.120 I would say my identity is most shaped by where I come from. 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.879 Like most people, uh, we are our roots. 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.399 Uh it everything is nature versus nurture to some extent. 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.959 But you know, I come from North Carolina, so from the south of the United States. 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:30.959 And so there is a you know, a southern hospitality to me, there is a uh a love of communion and engaging with others and a love of being outside and and experiencing nature. 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.439 So all of those things are really at the core of who I am. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:39.360 But there was always this part of me sort of dragging me away from this small town that I was born and raised in. 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:49.839 And so when I was uh 20 years old, I went to China and I was there for almost five years, and so that's a huge part of who I am as well, living in that culture for so many years. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.560 Um, so then the places that I've lived are also a part of my identity, right? 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:56.240 Where I came from and where I've lived. 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:01.439 Um Tai Yuan in Shanxi province and in the northeast of China is a big part of who I am. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:03.839 And then now I'm currently living in the south of Spain. 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.879 I was living in the north of Spain for a few years, and now I'm in the south. 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:23.759 So this diverse, incredible country that has so much history and so many languages and culture, and just incredible, you know, uh intersectionality in and of itself has also shaped who I have become in recent years. 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:30.720 Um, and then I would say the other lens of who I am, my identity, would be the people that I've met along the way. 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:36.480 So it's it's the places, but it's really, you know, the places aren't the places without the people that create that culture. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:42.319 So I've met incredible humans and they've all left a mark on me in some way, shape, or form. 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:43.680 I love it. 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:49.759 The places, the people, and those are

intense, intensely different places, I would say. 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:56.399 Southern part of the US, China for a couple of years, different parts of Spain. 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:56.879 Okay. 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:04.480 So I I think you are kind of already diving to the next aspect of my question, uh, where I want to ask more about that. 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.439 Um, usually, this is your journey. 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.560 Can you walk us through your journey, professional, personal? 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:18.879 Um, we're gonna end up with what you're doing right now, but curious about how you got here, and and you know, you can start as far back as you want. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:31.279 I definitely want to know about the the reasons why you made the the the leap transitions, but also I'm I'm curious about what did the young Douglass want to be? 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:33.919 So maybe start from that. 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:38.639 So I I guess I'll start from from the acting that you spoke about before. 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.039 You know, at the age of eight years old, I was always a child who craved attention. 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.080 I'm an extrovert. 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.720 I I love making people laugh, cutting jokes. 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:51.039 And so at a young age, my parents were like, we need to get this energy into something. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:56.639 You know, he he can't catch a ball, he can't kick a ball, but he can stand in front of people and keep their attention. 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:03.200 So uh I became Tiny Tim in a Christmas carol in like a local church in my in my town. 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:24.799 And I, you know, that role was really exciting for me because all my family and friends came, and I did that year after year after year, and I stayed in acting until I was about 17 years old, and it went from musicals to you know student films at local colleges and commercials and things, all very local, but it was a huge part of my identity and who I was. 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:40.240 And obviously, you can see how that can help an individual who's now an executive communication coach, and well, you know, I'm an educator as well, because you learn to present, you learn to be in front of a group, to project your voice, to deliver a certain side of yourself. 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:45.840 Yeah, and I'm very grateful for those opportunities to make it fun, right? 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.399 Because so many people are terrified of public speaking, but for me, it's just always been very enjoyable. 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:55.120 But I also have had a lot of nervous moments with it as well. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:01.039 I've had to work through my own difficulties of presenting and all of that, which has been a great challenge. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.600 Um, and so that's where it kind of starts. 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:29.519 And stop me at any point if you need, but then from there, I went to college, and going to college was when I said, I want to educate, I want to go to, I don't know what I want to study, but I know I want it to be really interesting in the humanities, so like psychology or anthropology or philosophy or religion, because I was just fascinated by these topics, and I felt like leaving my small town and going to college, I had this chance to just understand the world through books and through professors. 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:34.799 So I did that, and but when I graduated, I was still in a small town in North Carolina, right? 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:36.720 I was like, wait a second, this didn't work. 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:41.039 So then my one of my teachers who was teaching me Mandarin at the time, Dr. 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:45.120 Chen, he said, Why don't you come to China with me uh on a three-month program? 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:49.519 This was my junior year of college and experience another part of the world. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.559 And I said, Let's go. 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.639 So I went, and of course, everyone in North Carolina is thinking, Why are you going to China? 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.279 What a what a different place, you know. 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:57.840 Are you ready? 00:10:57.919 --> 00:10:59.679 And I was like, No, but let's go. 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:03.200 So I went and it was absolutely amazing. 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:14.799 It was terrifying in some ways, it was culture shock, um, but it was exactly what I wanted it to be, and that it was just a different way of thinking, being, you know, engaging with the world. 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.840 And when that program was over, uh, I didn't want to go back. 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:24.080 And I did, and I finished my my my undergrad, and then I bumped into this professor of mine, Dr. 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:31.120 Chen, a few months after I graduated, and I was delivering pizzas at a pizza hut, considering going to grad school. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:32.720 And he said, What are you doing here? 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:34.799 He's like, Get your master's degree in China, come on. 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.360 So he he booked me on another three-month trip. 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.440 I went back with him, and this time I stayed. 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:48.960 And I got a um a dual program at Shanxi University in Taiyuan, where I was able to be a university professor at a very young age. 00:11:49.039 --> 00:12:04.240 So for four years I taught university from 21 to 25, and I also received a master's degree, and that was an incredible experience because I learned how to educate and teach others and you know hold the attention of a room, but also give one-on-one feedback to students. 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:07.360 That was such an amazing experience. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:13.039 Um, and then from there, uh, when that was finished, I met my my now wife while I was there. 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:20.960 She was um in the community that I was

in of teaching, and she's from Miami, and we decided to move to Miami together. 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:28.399 So we ended up going back to you know, going to that part of the US and stayed there for about 10 years. 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:36.639 I actually got a job as a bartender because I was I had this degree in China, but it didn't fully transfer to the US. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:40.000 Like this master's degree wasn't entirely accredited, which I knew was going to happen. 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:46.399 So I started taking classes to finish out the master's degree, and I just started bartending to make some money. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:57.519 And I found this incredible community in South Florida called Ocean Reef Club, where it's a private residential club where individuals live and you know they can come there for half the year and go home. 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:05.279 And I started bartending there and engaging with the staff there, I found people from all over the world. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:15.519 And what I started noticing after engaging with the vice president of human resources was there was a bit of a disconnect because a lot of individuals there, their English wasn't quite strong enough for them to get job promotions. 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:31.039 So we actually worked out and I built a program to help, you know, a lot of my students were Haitian, some Armenian, um, South American, like Brazilian, Colombian, but they were in certain roles, and by helping them with their English language, by taking these classes, they were able to get promotions. 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:31.840 So that was the idea. 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.799 So I was doing that during the day and bartending at night. 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:44.559 And at one point, the vice president said, Well, would you want to take on some training for the club, like actually training on soft skills, like giving presentations and this, that, and the other? 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:56.879 So I started doing that, and eventually I became the training manager, left the bartending job, and uh eventually became the C-suite executive director of training and development for the entire um property. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:03.679 And that was an amazing experience because it taught me like corporate culture and it taught me how to educate in a very different way, like soft skills. 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:04.000 Right. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:04.879 Right. 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:06.960 And yeah, as you can see, it goes on and on. 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.159 And then from there, I kind of got a little bit of corporate burnout in 2023. 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:15.440 I was thinking, you know, I've been doing this a long time, I'm ready to try something else, and I'm itching to travel again. 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.600 So my wife and I moved to the north of Spain. 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:19.440 We lived in Bilbao for a year and a half. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:24.159 Now I was gonna I was gonna

say, what opportunity took you to Spain next. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.159 Honestly, it was the opportunity to start my own coaching and consulting business. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:34.879 I just wanted to take what I had learned throughout my life and apply it to people again and start my own business. 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:40.399 And I we felt it would be slightly easier to do so uh in Spain than perhaps from the US. 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.399 Um, and and and it was great because now we can do everything online. 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:48.879 So I uh started the business in 2023, and that's what I am now. 00:14:48.960 --> 00:15:03.039 I work, as you mentioned, one-on-one with non-native English speakers who are at career inflection points, and help them bridge that gap between where they are and where they need to be in order to deliver that version of themselves. 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:04.000 Yeah. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:16.000 Um, one of the things that I I was thinking about um when I read your bio was the people sounding smart in a different language, but not sounding smart in English. 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:18.240 And I think about that as an immigrant. 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:38.320 Um, when I came from Nigeria to the US, I remembered I lost my voice literally, like well, not literally, but I was I used to be a talker, but then I stopped talking when I go outside because I realized it was I felt very embarrassed to talk because people wouldn't understand me. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:47.120 And so I try to use as few words as possible when I'm out and about, and and I I I think about somebody saying that to me. 00:15:47.200 --> 00:16:31.120 I I live in San Diego where there's a lot of Spanish speakers, and one person was where we're at a referral networking event, and somebody was introducing somebody to me who speaks Spanish and doesn't speak a good English, and he said, This guy is really smart, he might not come across because English is not his first language, and he just came from speak from Mexico, but this guy is really smart, and then they were just chatting off in in Spanish, and I that phrase just reminded me of yes, you can sound not smart if you are not speaking your language, and and that's a missed opportunity when you're talking about translating your skills and experience or communicating with with other people. 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:34.399 I mean, it is an intangible cost, right? 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:43.919 We we often overlook it, and and I really base my coaching and consulting around raising awareness. 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:52.320 There's there's that very famous uh meme of Sofia Fagara from Modern Family, where she's like, You have no idea how smart I am in Spanish, right? 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:56.399 And it and that always sticks with me because it's so true, it's exactly what you said. 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:04.640 Yeah, and so it's all about helping individuals, really giving them the tools that they already have because everyone that I work with is already fluent, right? 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:10.319 Um, we're just giving them the access to the language that they might not even know that they already had access to. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:19.519 So as a coach, I really want to be able to say goodbye to them at some point because they don't they don't need me as much as they think they do, they just need the permission to do it. 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:20.559 Right I love that. 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.279 Okay, so how many languages did you speak? 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:28.079 Did you go to a Chinese immersion school in the US before you moved to China? 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:34.480 Not an immersion school, but uh in my undergrad, my my language of choice was was Mandarin. 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.079 So I mean, but I was only studying it. 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.400 Yeah, don't don't get to don't get to under oh wait undergrad in the US. 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:41.359 Yes. 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:49.839 So you were speaking, you understood it a little bit, like how did you jump from where you were in the US to go to going to China? 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:54.000 You didn't I uh I often jump I often jump into the deep end. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.400 So I I was not prepared uh in terms of the language, not at all. 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:07.759 I I I took a few classes in the US, but as every as ever any American can tell you, oh I took Spanish in high school, you know, oh I took French in literary school. 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.079 I mean, it's like it doesn't really I could say the phrases that the textbook teaches you. 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:16.079 I got the grades in school, but when I went to China, not before very different. 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:26.400 Um, but that was part of what made it such an incredible experience because I was living in the on campus, and campuses in China are very different than in the US. 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.559 They're like they are truly little communities. 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:37.759 I mean, there are grandparents, there are kids, there is a faculty, there's everyone, there's little shops and restaurants and stores, like within those walls of the campus is like a town. 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:53.039 So we were I was in this big city of five million, but I was on this little campus, and so I was going to class five hours a day, five days a week, studying Mandarin every moment that I was in those classrooms, and then as soon as I stepped out, I got to practice it and use it. 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.200 So I was able to immerse myself in the language. 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:05.119 And so the the three months didn't scare you away, and you decided to go back for your master's? 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:06.559 Yes, exactly. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:08.319 If anything, it was the opposite. 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.559 I was it was magnetic, I was pulled to it. 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:12.079 I love it.

00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:20.079 And then what was the what was the experience like um when you moved to Spain? 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:21.359 Was it similar? 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.519 Did you speak Spanish? 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.200 So yeah, similar in that I did not speak Spanish. 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:29.759 Uh the same thing, deep end. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:42.559 But you know, Spanish is wait when you think about linguistics, your mother language to your native, to your target language, you know, ling linguists will often refer to it as like L1, L2, L3, L4, L5. 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.519 And so when you go from English to Spanish, it's like an L2, maybe an L3. 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:49.759 I mean, to English to Chinese is an L5. 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:55.440 That's about as hard as it gets because you have no cognates, there's no alphabet, they have tones. 00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:04.960 Spanish is different because you know, not saying it's easy to learn by any means, but it's easier because of the Latin roots that we also have uh in English. 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.279 And so you can get around a little bit more. 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:14.160 So I was less terrified coming to Spain than I was to China, but I still, yeah, I mean, I'm still learning it now. 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.160 I am nowhere uh a fluent Spanish speaker at the moment. 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:23.440 I would say I'm like a B1, which is like lower intermediate, working towards B2, which is like upper intermediate. 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:28.559 So I can understand what's going on, but I still sound like I'm not very smart. 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.200 I need someone to say, hey, this guy's really smart in English. 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.359 I need that guy that you were talking about before. 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:34.880 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:35.759 Oh my god. 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:45.759 I think I'm just um I'm always in awe of people that learn multiple languages, uh, because I always I always think I'm not a language person. 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:56.799 Um but recently I was telling somebody that you know, I think I always forget that my first language is not English, and I'm bilingual naturally, but I I take that for granted. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:07.759 Like I because you're running a podcast in English right now, you're obviously and I you know my first language is Yoruba, a Nigerian language, and I still speak it fluently. 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:14.240 Well, the people there might question me, and I still read it and I still write it, and our letters are different. 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:25.759 So I I think I I don't give myself credit because I'm always saying, Oh, I'm so terrified of languages, I don't think I can learn any language, but I'm like, I do speak, read and write two different languages right now. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:35.519 And it's um I I I think it's admirable being able to speak multiple languages and being able to like immerse yourself in different cultures. 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:43.680 Um, we we talk about workplaces being in melting pots, um, especially when we talk about corporate America, a melting pot of people. 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:56.400 We focus so much on titles and skills, we forget that people bring so much more um from their background, their their context, than we want to acknowledge. 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:01.839 And and when we when we think, when we change our mindset about I will get to appreciate people more. 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:03.440 Um, very well said. 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.240 Absolutely. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:15.039 So what when when you think back to your experience, your career journey, what do you think people often don't see when they look at what you do today? 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:21.119 They probably don't see how it's all connected because it's it's quite random, right? 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:44.720 Um, maybe they don't see that connected between all of that is a genuine curiosity and a drive to be uncomfortable, to find comfort in another culture with another group of people, always being the least intelligent person in the room, like on purpose. 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:52.559 Uh, that's really something that I strive for because being the smartest person in the room is really boring, you know, and you don't really learn very much there, right? 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.640 So anytime you can you can be there in that way. 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.680 I mean, I think that's what's kind of steered me subconsciously. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.519 And actually, the question when I looked at some of the questions we were going to talk about today, it kind of sparked to my mind. 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.119 I hadn't really thought about that. 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.079 So thank you for for bringing that to my attention. 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.680 That I think curiosity is what's really underneath it all. 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:16.640 And people that know me probably see that, but that's what it is, and also communication. 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.200 I'm I'm somebody that needs to communicate. 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:23.039 If you put me in a room by myself for more than a few hours, I go crazy. 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:24.640 I need human interaction. 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:36.160 So when I go to a culture where I don't know the language, I have to learn it, or at least some of it so that I can talk to these people, even if we're signing at each other and and just making it work. 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.400 I you know, I need to be able to engage. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:54.640 So yeah, I I think technology also has made us lazy because I remembered when I first time I went to Italy, um, I I I don't think I thought about the language when I was going, but right, I ended up using Google Translate. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:06.240 I know, I just I mean it was a visit, but you know, walking literally from from

the hotel to the street to go grab food and realizing everybody's speaking to me in Italian, right? 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.519 And I'm like, oh, how am I supposed to tell them what I want? 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:11.440 Like this is crazy. 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.000 Um I love that that didn't cross your mind until you're gonna be able to do it. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:15.279 It didn't cross my mind. 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.400 Wait, how how am I supposed to tell them what I want? 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:26.960 And I just pointed to the pizza on the wall, like this this one, and I'm just like showing them money, like a lot of pointing. 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:36.079 Um, I mean, because I was going for a cruise, so I didn't think of the fact that wait, I'm spending two days on land, I have to relate with people in a different language. 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.279 Uh, it was also a very humbling experience. 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:51.039 Um, I I think when you go into space where spaces where when you are not the smartest in the room or where you can communicate and everybody else can communicate with each other. 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:58.640 Um I um I have a little one who is I don't know, it's not off track, I promise. 00:24:58.720 --> 00:24:59.519 It's connected. 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.640 I have a this is your show, you can take it wherever you want. 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.720 And I was just thinking about it now. 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:10.880 I have my youngest is on the autism spectrum, and one of the things he struggles with is communication. 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:17.839 And uh recently I had somebody that was trying to like, you know, as a parent, you kind of struggle, right? 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:27.119 Like, I wish I knew what was going through his mind, I wish I could learn, and I feel so much pressure and frustration because I'm like, he's just six years old. 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:34.480 And I'm like, I I I you know I know he's so smart, but this communication piece, I wish he could talk. 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:46.720 Um, and I had somebody remind me that imagine going to a country where you don't speak the language, all the billboards, all the signs, everything is in a different language. 00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.599 Imagine how lost you will feel if you stand in the middle. 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:56.640 It's like standing in Times Square and realizing everybody around you is speaking something different, all the signs are in something different. 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.960 Like now imagine that child is that's how your child feels. 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.519 He can communicate, his language is just different. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.640 Exactly. 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:16.720 And he's feeling that way, so all you need to do is just give it time and just help him feel calm enough so that you can learn each other's language. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:31.839 And that that visual image was just it just really struck with

me that yeah, I'm thinking he needs to communicate, but he's communicating, I just don't understand him, and he doesn't understand me, and we have to figure out a common language. 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:38.480 That's right, and it's often easier said than done, but in moments like this, we have to remember love, not fear, right? 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.960 Because we're reacting out of fear like I'm afraid he won't be able to, right? 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:49.599 Realizing that if you approach it with love, you know, this is just going to be a different journey for him, perhaps. 00:26:49.920 --> 00:27:03.200 Yeah, you know, and and and that's one of the beautiful things I think about the spectrum of autism, because I have met incredible people that fall into that spectrum who just communicate in their way. 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:16.720 And remember, communication is a two-way street, it's not just talking, it's also a so when you can learn to be patient and give grace to individuals that are on the spectrum, you can have an incredible interaction and engagement with them. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:26.000 It's really quite similar, it's not off track to the non-native speaker, non-native speaker giving them that grace, giving them that time to get to their point. 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.000 Um, and and and I if you don't mind, I'll take it a step further. 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:37.119 I was having a conversation a couple days ago with with a actually a student of mine. 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:44.160 I actually I also do lectures for an online Austrian university uh every Tuesday on business English topics. 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.720 And so I get to meet all these incredible uh individuals from around the world through that opportunity. 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:56.960 But this this gentleman said to me, we were having a one-on-one, and he said, There are so many more cues to competence than language. 00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:07.279 So when you really think about what that means, it's that we often look at somebody who and say, Well, they either can or can't speak the language, but there's so many more cues to competence, right? 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:09.359 Like the knowledge behind it, right? 00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.839 The work that went into getting to the idea that they're presenting, right? 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:25.519 So if we're patient and we give that time and that energy to somebody who's struggling through communicating, we can often find the nuggets, we can find those, those, those golden pieces there that are right, right. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.200 I like that. 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:28.960 There's definitely more to it. 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:29.599 Yep. 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:31.359 There's a lot to it. 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:32.000 There's a lot to it. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.279 There's a lot to it, yeah. 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:35.680 So when you go ahead. 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:57.200 And it may just be, you know, in other

areas besides communication, or it may be that it communicates in a way that's just slightly different. 00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:58.799 That's just slightly different. 00:28:58.960 --> 00:28:59.519 Yeah. 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:09.359 Yeah, no, definitely seeing, and and I think that's the frustration is not understanding because that's the the seeing part. 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:24.480 I can see this person who is calculating numbers and adding multiple digits, who self-taught himself to read, who is reading books, but can't tell me, and so it feels frustrating to me because I'm like, how can you do this so quickly? 00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:30.079 Add numbers this quickly in your mind before I even have time to press my calculator. 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.839 And you he's probably frustrated with you that you can't keep up with the map. 00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.359 Like, come on, mom, that was easy. 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:41.119 That's a he's really thinking, like, how you know why are you still using your calculator for that? 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:42.079 That was easy. 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:43.279 That's it, that's it, right? 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.559 When you when you put the shoe on the other foot, it's like, wait a second, okay. 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.799 Yeah, I guess I am dumb to him in my own language. 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:52.960 I like it. 00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.440 So that's a very humbling way to think about it. 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.240 It is. 00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:14.559 Um, so when you think of your experience with Mandarin and Spanish, how did those experiences learning those two languages teach you or influence what you do with communication today or your perspective of communication? 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:23.200 What it taught me was that we have different identities in different languages. 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.480 We we are not ever going to be. 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:28.880 I I talk about being fully yourself in English. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:30.880 That's part of what I promote. 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:40.480 But I also always bring in the caveat that it's you're gonna be the full version of yourself in that language, right? 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:50.960 Because when I speak Mandarin, um, which I am fluent in Mandarin, I'm not quite fluent yet in Spanish, but when I speak Mandarin fluently, I'm still not Doug from North Carolina. 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.359 I mean, I am, it's it is my identity. 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:56.640 I'm not losing myself, and I think you you talk about this a bit, right? 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:04.079 Like not losing who you are, but at the same time, I am a slightly different version of myself. 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:17.759 I'm using the skills available to me, the words that they've chosen, because history and culture and people are the ones that shaped that language, and other history and culture people shaped the language that I was raised on. 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:26.960 So, so for me, you know, learning Mandarin taught me that there is another form, like another version of my identity that's really quite beautiful, it's different. 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:35.119 Um, I will focus on different areas of my life and my aspects and my beliefs and my thought processes when I'm speaking in Mandarin than I will in English. 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:36.079 And the same in Spanish. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:46.160 I'm learning that now because of the priorities that that language holds at the core uh of the words that they choose and the phrases that they that they use. 00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:55.920 So there's something really it's it's abstract, it's it's very it's not very tangible, but there's something at the core of language uh that really speaks to identity, I think. 00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:10.960 Yeah, and I think that's why learning, you know, people always explain about when you're learning a language by immersing yourself in the collar, you're learning faster, you're picking up so much more than just somebody that sits in the US and is learning from a textbook. 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:14.240 Full immersion is the way to go every single time. 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:21.680 And that's why when I work one-on-one or even B2B, like if I'm working with a group of executives for a company, the more we can immerse, the better. 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:28.799 Because a lot of times they are, you know, at their computer in their home country, or they are at their you know, boardroom in their country. 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:33.359 And so, can you get as much exposure as possible to the language you're trying to learn? 00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:39.839 Because you're not just learning words, you're learning history, you're learning people, you're learning culture, you're learning food, you're learning music, right? 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:41.759 So many other things. 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.039 And and for me, that's really the beauty. 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.119 The language is just an output, it's an output, right? 00:32:49.359 --> 00:33:02.720 Yeah, and and I think about growing up in Nigeria, learning English, and then coming to the US, thinking I knew everything about the US, and realizing, well, I learned English in Nigeria. 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:06.960 We're more influenced by British English, correct. 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.119 American English is a little different. 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.160 Oh, yeah, southern English is a little different. 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:13.920 So many letters of English. 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:14.880 And I'm like, what? 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:17.519 I thought I was fluent in English. 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:18.799 That's how it goes. 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:24.799 There's so many, I mean, language is truly a living, breathing organism, you know, it's constantly changing. 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.200 I mean, look what generations of kids do with language. 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:32.240 You know,

we always come up with our new slangs and terms that our parents don't understand on purpose, right? 00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:34.400 Because we want to remark, you know. 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:35.680 But that's that's what we can't. 00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:40.880 That's the beauty of language, is that we can use it to express ourselves. 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:42.240 So it is tied to identity, right? 00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:43.519 And it is very tied. 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:44.720 Yeah. 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.240 Yeah, I like that. 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:46.880 All right. 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:54.079 Uh, as always, the time has flown by, and I would love to continue this conversation separately, but we have to wrap up. 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.920 And so before we wrap up, I wanted to have a chance to talk about your work a little bit. 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:08.000 Uh, for anyone that is thinking, you kind of uh some summarized it in open to communicate in English, but talk a little bit about your work for those that are listening that might be interested in working with you. 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:09.280 What is your organization? 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:10.960 How do people work with you? 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:12.159 Of course. 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:22.239 So, Douglas Brewer, Executive Communication Coaching is my one-to-one uh business where I work with clients who are again at career inflection points. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.079 They're fluent in English, but they feel like they uh are not quite strong enough to go to the next level. 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:38.000 Maybe now they're leading an international team and they really have to communicate and have some of those hard conversations, negotiations, pitches, boardroom meetings that they didn't have before. 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.280 Or they're going for an interview, they want to make it to that next level. 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:54.639 And again, usually it has something to do with their presentation craft, you know, how they present in English, or it can have something to do more with the presence craft, like how they feel about who they are. 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:56.800 And that's why I've partnered with Marco Pisini. 00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:03.360 The work I'm doing now really taps more into uh the emotional regulation side of things through his work. 00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.599 So him and I have created a retreat. 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:25.440 For those of you that would be interested in this, this is a chance for you to take a four-day uh transformative experience in Mallorca, Spain, beautiful location, away from the day-to-day grind, away from your company, again, full immersion, like you and I just spoke about, and get in a room with other people that want to get over that hump. 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:28.960 And we curate it to the group in the room. 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:32.719 So we're running our first one in November, so there will be founding pricing on that. 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:37.199 Um, and then we're gonna run it four more times in 2027 and we're gonna keep it going. 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:44.880 We're also we're also co-authoring a book at the moment, which will be ready by the end of the year, which has all of the methodologies and teachings from the retreat in it. 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.159 So very excited, excited about both the book and the retreat and the work that I'm doing with Marco. 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:52.079 Okay, well, thank you. 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:53.920 I'm looking forward to hearing more about that. 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:58.960 I think communication is also one thing that, as you said, is always growing, is always evolving. 00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:04.239 We can always be better, we can always do better and improve ourselves. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.079 Um, thank you for sharing that. 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:07.199 How do people find you? 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.360 What's the best way to connect with you? 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:11.440 I spend time on LinkedIn. 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:13.679 I feel like that's an easy way to get me. 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:17.199 Uh, if you type in uh Douglas Brewer, you should be able to find me. 00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:23.199 But I believe if you do like the LinkedIn.com slash in the Douglas Brewer, you can find me there. 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.000 Also, my website is thedouglasbrewer.com. 00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.079 So just my my name with the in front. 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:35.199 And if you want to learn about the retreat, uh fullyyourself.com uh is the landing page for the retreat. 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:38.880 You can find me, you can find me in any of those those areas, and I'd be happy to connect. 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:41.599 Thank you for the opportunity to to share that as well, Dr. 00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:42.480 Of course. 00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:45.360 Thank you so much for having me uh on the button. 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.159 It's been amazing. 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:53.920 I I've enjoyed having you, and then I always love to wrap up my my question with this, and I'm actually very curious about your response to this one. 00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:57.440 I have a closing signature question that is about food. 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:12.880 So, if you were to share a meal or a dish, and he's already laughing from your family culture or whichever culture you choose with your co-workers, what would you pick and why did you pick what you picked? 00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.199 It's deviled eggs every time. 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.159 Oh, I mean, that that is a southern. 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:22.159 I mean, I actually did some research the other day because my wife and I love deviled eggs. 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:22.960 We were talking about it. 00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:25.199 A lot of cultures have a deviled egg. 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:34.320 But in the south, you know, we will put like some pickle relish on it, we'll do a

bit of like spice, so we'll put a bit of like uh paprika. 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.480 There's always some some Dijon mustard in there and a lot of mayonnaise, of course. 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:45.119 Um, and you serve them cold, and they're delicious, they're a little bit spicy, they're a little bit sweet, they're a little bit savory. 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:53.840 And honestly, one of the first times I ever went to a group gathering in China with other people from the university, I brought deviled eggs. 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:55.119 It was the first thing that I brought. 00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.119 And I remember people being like, What are these? 00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:58.320 And I still do it to this day. 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.920 That's kind of like my go-to that I bring when I'm with other people from other cultures. 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:04.880 From other cultures, it's it's oh, I love that. 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:07.280 You didn't lose your Southern roots. 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.159 You can't, you can't, it's who you are, right? 00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.199 You can't forget you can run to the other side of the planet, but it's still there, right? 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:18.880 So I love it, and I love hearing that you still take it. 00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:28.960 I think food is such a great way to um engage in conversation, teach people about your background, you know, and and who you are and what's important to you. 00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:30.960 So thank you so much for sharing that. 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:33.440 Um, this is a bonus question. 00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:35.760 So, how is the food? 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:39.679 China, Spain, I feel like there's a difference. 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:41.840 How are you doing with food adjustments? 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.000 There's a little difference of food there. 00:38:44.159 --> 00:39:01.519 I mean, you know, some people have a really hard time with Chinese food, but you have to remember that Chinese, China is so huge that where you go, like they're doing noodles in the north, they're doing rice in the south, and they're doing a lot more like protein and like heavier type foods in the north, more vinegar-based, and they're doing a lot like kind of like lighter meals in the south, more spice. 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:04.320 Um, I absolutely adore Chinese food. 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:06.960 Everywhere I went, I found incredible dishes. 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:15.199 It's actually where I learned how to eat like an adult, because growing up in the south, I ate meat and potatoes, I didn't touch a vegetable, you know. 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.920 I grew up on like a very like kind of like standard American diet, the sad diet, right? 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:20.559 I really did. 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.199 No, no, no knocking against my family or anything. 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:24.159 It's just what we ate. 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:35.920 But when I went to China, I'd never I mean, I was

eating tofu, I was eating eggplant, I was eating duck feet, you know, I was eating just any and everything they would feed me, and it was always delicious. 00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.320 And so I my palate really changed there. 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.559 And now that I'm in Spain, it's more similar to the U.S. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:47.760 I know people in Spain would probably slap me for saying that, but just that they have more identifiable foods. 00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:58.800 Like you know, you but they've got incredible ham here, like the jamoni verico is incredible, and their tortilla here, where they take like it's almost like the omelette with the with the potatoes inside, seems so simple. 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:05.039 It's just like an omelet with potato inside, but it's done so beautifully and really, really nice with like a cafe con leche. 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.360 I mean, the food here is incredible as well. 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:13.039 Um, paella, and then in the north, you have like the pinchos, like the really small bites of food. 00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:18.400 Um, that you know, San Sebastian and Bilbao have like these are gastronomic hubs. 00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.119 So I've been very fortunate to eat great food. 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.320 Oh, okay. 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:23.679 As you can tell, I've been super. 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:24.480 I know. 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:28.639 I was like, it feels like we needed another episode about food, Douglas. 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:33.199 So please because you you've you've done the dishes around. 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:36.079 I love Asian food, I love Chinese food too. 00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:39.039 So I'm like, okay, that part, but I'm struggling. 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:45.519 I struggled with food in Europe because you did, yeah, because I I like spicier foods. 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:48.639 I felt like there was a lot more bland food. 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:55.519 I mean, again, I didn't spend a lot of time there, so um I was just like sometimes there is a bit of an um aversion to spice. 00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:01.679 We we laughed at it in Spain, everyone's like, oh, pika pica, like conquenado, like be careful, like it's spicy, and then you take it, it's just like black pepper then. 00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:12.079 Because I was like, no, I want the best of flavor that I can imagine I was seeing more in uh in China. 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.639 So I was wondering what our transition was like. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:15.920 But thank you so much, Douglas. 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:17.280 It was so nice chatting with you. 00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:22.320 Thank you for the work you do, and um, thank you for sharing uh your insights with us. 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:33.039 Looking forward to hearing everyone's feedback, check out our Substack Reflection where I go deeper on some of the things I talked about with Douglas and then um engage with us. 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:41.119 If you're listening, uh drop a comment, share a go to our website, and you can send us an episode feedback about this. 00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:44.559 And if you have any thoughts, uh connect with myself and Douglas. 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:45.840 Great to be here. 00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:47.199 Thank you so much. 00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:48.400 Take care. 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:59.519 Thank you for being part of today's conversation on thriving in intersectionality. 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:16.639 If you're an HR or DEI leader and you need employer resource group or business resource group resources, let's connect and LinkedIn and help organizations build inclusive cultures through inclusive workplace communities, strategy, and storytelling. 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:33.519 Immigrants and first gen professionals, join our free community at www.immigrantsincorporate.org for career support, networking, and resources in community with peers who understand your journey. 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:39.920 Tag our podcast page on LinkedIn or connect with me directly to continue the conversation. 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:45.840 Please don't forget to rate and review to help others discover these discussions. 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.159 Keep thriving in your intersections. 00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:49.599 Your story matters. 00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:50.239 I'm Dr. 00:42:50.320 --> 00:42:56.079 Lola Adeyemo, and this has been Thriving in Intersectionality Podcast.