Comics Rule Everything Around Zach Norris. An Interview About Hip-Hop And Comic Book Crossovers의 전체 녹취록

00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:13.919 Come on. 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.360 So yeah, Cream, it's a it's an amazing comic book and hip hop zine. 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:24.639 Volume one, which focused on comic book references and nods and hip hop lyrics, was a runaway success. 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.400 Physical copies sold out. 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:28.479 I think it actually might be on this third printing. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:30.240 I know it's available digitally. 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:32.960 Uh, volume two is coming very soon. 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.639 I have a little asterisk there, but we'll talk more about volume two here in a sec. 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:40.639 It expands on the visual and thematic blend of hip hop and comic fandom. 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.840 So take a wild guess at what we're talking about today. 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.120 That's right, my two favorite things hip hop and comics. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:52.800 But before we get started on that, I want to give special recognition to our amazing sponsors who help me keep the lights on, all right? 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:56.560 It's time to pay some bills and show some love to the people who uh show love back. 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:01.360 Big shout outs to our sponsors, including our presenting sponsor, coverprice.com. 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:06.400 It's the ultimate comic book price guide and collection management tool for comic collectors. 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:12.560 You can get cover price for $1 for one month by using the special promo code in this episode show notes. 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.800 I say it all the time, but it's the truth. 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.199 I'm not just a champion, but also a client. 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.719 I use cover price myself for tracking my collection. 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.960 And you can too for one dollar. 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:24.719 Check out the link in the show notes. 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:29.680 And speaking about sponsors, we gotta thank Gotham City Limit Comic Shop for the support, too. 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.919 It's the best comic shop in Northeast, Florida. 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:40.479 If you live in Jax, you can go visit them today on Southside Boulevard or no matter where you're at, maybe you're not in Jacks or Florida, you can't make it to Gotham City Limit in person. 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:44.879 You can still buy comics from them online at GothamCity Limit.com. 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:53.360 And we can't talk about supporters without talking about the loyal supporters over on the short box Patreon, aka the short box patronies, all right? 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:57.120 The homies that help keep me motivated, that support what I do. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.759 Uh the biggest fans of the short box. 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:00.639 I appreciate you guys. 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:01.360 Love you guys. 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:02.800 Thank you so much for the help. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.719 Now, without further ado, let's bring on our guest of honor today. 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:12.080 Comics rule everything around him, they rule everything around me, and probably around you two. 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:13.520 Short box nation. 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:16.800 Without further ado, let's bring on our man Zach Norris to the show. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:18.319 Zach, what up? 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.279 How are you doing? 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:21.120 Yo, yo, Mother, what's up, man? 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:21.600 Man. 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.360 That was a killer, killer intro, dude. 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:24.879 You're so professional, man. 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:25.839 Thank you. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:26.639 I appreciate that. 00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:31.360 Uh, my man Vigo is going to edit all the bad parts and these parts I stumble. 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:33.680 So I'm gonna sound real good, but thank you for the compliment. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:42.560 Um can I tell you this might be the fastest uh interview I've ever arranged. 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:44.079 I think I drew him on like on a Wednesday. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.360 I was like, hey, what do you think about interviewing on you know Saturday? 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:49.519 This is the interview I knew I wanted to do. 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.560 I just didn't think we would uh coordinate so quickly. 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:54.399 I appreciate you wanting to do it, man. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:04.639 No, it was we saw each other, what, less than two weeks ago, and then you asked me about a week ago, and I was really just trying to confirm with the family if I could sit down and be uninterrupted for a few hours. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:05.360 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.720 But you know what, but but it feels like we've definitely been in communication for a lot longer, if I'm not mistaken. 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:28.959 Here's how I remember us connecting and meeting is I want to say a year ago, maybe two years ago, my man Chris Hacker from the Oblivion Bar podcast shoots me a message and he's like, Hey, this guy named Zach Norris is going to reach out to you uh and tell you about this thing that I know you're going to love. 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:32.720 I think he might have even sent me a photo of like cream volume one. 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:36.000 Um and I was like, okay, what is it? 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.920 He's like, it's hip hop in a comic book zine. 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:38.800 I'm like, say less. 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.879 He's already like in my good book, you know. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.759 And I mean, since then we've been like going back and forth uh via DMs and sharing stuff. 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:51.040 Uh when you interviewed Mike Del Mundo for for sketched, um, you know, that was amazing. 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:57.360 So yeah, I guess it was kind of I've been talking about how San Diego Comic-Con with it being, it was just such a big moment

for me, right? 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:03.680 It was like my first Comic-Con, but also the experience of meeting a lot of internet friends in real life. 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.480 And I gotta say, you got a lot of swag, man. 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.120 I was like, man, Zach is even cooler in person. 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:10.319 He's got a lot of swag. 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:11.279 You're too kind, dude. 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:12.079 You're too kind. 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.040 No, um, yeah, that that sounds about right. 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.120 I saw Chris last year during Comic-Con. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:17.839 There we go. 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:22.240 And I had uh I had made an Ash can uh before volume one. 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:37.920 It was really just like a little two-page kind of teaser thing, and um was giving that out to friends and giving that out to people who I thought would be interested uh to try and let people know, like, hey, this is something I'm working on, was giving it out at the shop and bumped into Chris on the show floor. 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.439 And you know, shout out Chris, Chris Hacker, great dude, great show. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:42.800 Go listen to Oblivion Bar. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:59.839 And yeah, man, that uh from from Comic-Con to then December is when I really, really got like locked in head down, going to work on volume one and released that last year in December on New Year's Eve, actually, and then got volume two out for for Comic-Con this year. 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:07.120 And real quick, before I get too too sidetracked here, gotta say, A, thank you for coming by the shop during Comic-Con. 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:17.199 It's a pleasure meeting you in person on the note of coming by on the busiest possible day I could have like, you know, I I mentioned it on the episode with David. 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:26.160 I was like, I almost felt stupid for showing up, and they're just about to do a signing with like, you know, James Tanyan and the whole crew, and you guys were having a line form. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.720 And but if anything, I I did give you props on this. 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.959 Was obviously like the timing was a little like, oh shit, okay, he's got a lot going on. 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:36.079 So the fact that you even took like five minutes to be like, hey man, what's up? 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:37.279 So good to finally meet you. 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.319 You know, I got a chance to buy volume two from you in person. 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.600 You even signed it for me. 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:58.959 I thought it was a cool experience to be there during such a busy moment, like a big moment for you guys, and to see like how you ran the shop and the team coordinated and how the customers that were there, just there, maybe not involved with the the signing, still were like taken care of and all of that. 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:07.519 So it was something interesting to see um you guys at maybe one of your busiest, and uh to see the shop run still really smoothly, you know. 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.600 If anything, it left me with a really good impression. 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:14.560 Like, damn, if this is what it's like on a busy day, like imagine like just a chill day. 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.000 So no, dude, I I really appreciate the kind words. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.959 I've listened to the episode with David, so thank you guys very much. 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:30.240 Um, I was actually, I'll I'll give you a little inside baseball, was showing my wife, we went to get coffee earlier today, and I was like, yo, you gotta listen to the homies. 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.720 Uh David and Butter, they came by the shop. 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:38.559 Butter had a podcast, gave us like some really, really great feedback, some really, you know, kind words. 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:46.639 And while I was listening to it with my wife, she was kind of like, you know, chuckling at the part about me being like the wince, you know, Winston the Wolf or the Wolf of the World. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.480 Yeah, the wolf of now and never, yeah. 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:56.639 And I was like, I don't know if I could have any higher praise than what these guys are are pumping me up as right now. 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:04.960 Like if I if the only thing I ever do with the rest of my tenure in comics is be the equivalent of Harvey Keitel's character, the wolf, in Pulp Fiction. 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:08.639 If I'm that for now or never, then it is a life, you know, well lived. 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:10.080 Uh I will be happy with that. 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:10.799 Absolutely. 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:20.799 And man, I well, I I guess on the topic of uh uh Comic-Con, real quick, and I feel like I've I I probably have pushed the limit of how much more I can continue to talk about Comic-Con. 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.240 Being as like we're two weeks out, and this episode will be out like a week later. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:25.519 So bear with me here. 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:31.279 But I was reading a local San Diego uh uh like ABC News article. 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:34.559 They uh I guess they stopped by the shop before the big signing. 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:41.200 They wrote about like, you know, uh the big uh big signing, you know, San Diego Comic-Con, how now or never like gets ready. 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:58.320 And uh they interviewed you, you know, you there was a couple of quotes from you, and one stood out to me, which was you mentioned that you guys had your plans locked in for San Diego Comic-Con this past, you know, the two, three weeks ago, like as of early as October 2025. 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.559 Like, that is that like normal? 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:02.480 Do you guys plan a year out? 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:04.480 That seems like insanely early. 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:05.519 Is it normal?

00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:06.720 Probably not. 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.600 That's not all of Comic-Con. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.919 That was one event in particular. 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:15.039 Um, that was the the Tiny Onion uh Corpse Tour event. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:19.840 We did an event with them in 2025, we did an event with them actually in 2024. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:34.480 And so they love us, we love them, and they uh reached out to us in October and we're like, hey, we just had our big kind of like 2025 wrap-up meeting that then includes like a look at 2026 and what we want to do. 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:37.519 Are you guys down to clown for Comic Con next year? 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.799 Like, we if you'll have us, we want to lock in Saturday. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:45.039 And we said, if you want Saturday right now in October 2025, then Saturday. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:50.960 Yeah, and so yeah, man, we we have been talking with Tiny Onion since basically October. 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:56.240 I think I reached out to Patrick Horvath a few months out to get that ball rolling. 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:59.360 Um, we had him signing on on new comic book day of Comic-Con. 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:02.960 And then same with Matthew Rosenberg, probably a couple months out. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:09.039 Um, he actually had reached out to us first asking if we had anything going on and if we had some free time. 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.440 And so we we worked out something with him. 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:17.679 And then um, we did a local thing on Sunday with myself and my buddy Just on who did our our Godzilla cover. 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:18.879 Yeah, Just on McGee. 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.159 Big shout out to Just Stone. 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:20.799 Yeah, dude. 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.720 The fanciest version of Justin I've ever heard, Just on. 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:26.480 Yeah, you got a little French flair too. 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:28.559 Just Don's on his way up. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:33.200 I'm I'm really excited for him to start taking the steps that he's taking. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:38.320 And I would imagine in in a couple years or so, if not sooner, you'll you'll probably talk to Juston. 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:38.879 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:41.360 And you'll you'll find out it's it's not fancy at all. 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.039 It's more a redneck thing. 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:49.600 Um, I believe it was like his his grandmother in Kansas, like when he was born, she's like, Just on. 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:51.039 And so it just Oh word, okay. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:52.000 His name is Just on. 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:52.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:59.600 Zach, let me ask you, let's I guess while we're on the topic of Now or Never and you know, uh planning these events for for the shop and things. 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:02.000 How did you first get involved with Now or Never? 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.679 And I guess what's your role exactly? 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.960 Is it safe to call you a manager or or what do you how do you define your role? 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:12.320 Yeah, I mean, I think I think it's that's an easy way, uh that's an easy title uh to put on it. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.519 We actually don't really do too much of that. 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:16.080 Okay. 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:28.799 I would say if you had to call me anything, I am kind of like the the point person for customer management, subscription management, orders, FOC stuff, uh receiving orders. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:30.480 Aaron is the owner of the shop. 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:37.600 He opened the shop in 2018 and um I shopped there for two years before I became an employee. 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:47.919 Uh I think Aaron had basically gotten tired of listening to me uh bitch about my previous job and was like, hey man, like I'm I'm ready for a full timer. 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.080 Like if you want to get out of a situation that you're not feeling, like come on board. 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:59.200 Um it was a a pretty big leap for my myself and my wife, uh, because my wife was pregnant. 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:02.080 We were about three months out from my son being born. 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:02.559 Wow. 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:13.279 And I was like, hey, do you care if I give up this uh somewhat cushy job with an eyewear company and go work in the uh the infamously stable and very profitable marketing? 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:17.840 lucrative comic shop, not just comic book industry, like a comic retail shop. 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.039 Yeah, dude, yeah. 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:23.120 And and my wife is is about as down as as anybody can be. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:33.039 And she was like, if if this is gonna make you happy and this is gonna make you more like physically and emotionally and mentally available for me and your son, then yes, I want that for for you and for us. 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:34.559 And I was like, let's let's get it. 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.080 Big shout outs to Miss Norris. 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:36.720 I like that. 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:37.440 Yeah, dude. 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:38.720 Huge shout out to her. 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:40.480 She is she's she's the anchor. 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.480 But yeah, oh, so sorry, I got sidetracked. 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.639 I uh I really like my wife and talk about it a lot. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:45.360 Yeah, I can tell. 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.120 Um but uh noted. 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:51.279 So I shopped at the shop for two years, started working for the shop. 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:56.000 I had basically I remember probably my second or third time going to the shop. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:02.000 I'm not sure how familiar you are with this uh like ideology or or lifestyle, but um, I'm straight edge. 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.240 Uh don't drink, don't smoke,

don't do drugs. 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.519 It's like a hardcore thing, comes from 80s hardcore. 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.279 So I walked, I went into the shop one day wearing a shirt that said it's okay not to drink. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.440 And Aaron saw my shirt and was like, hey man, are you straight edge? 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:16.720 And I was like, Yes, I am. 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:18.480 And he was like, sick, I'm straight edge. 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.080 From Boston, Boston Hardcore. 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:21.039 I was like, okay, sick. 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:30.080 So we connected on the straight edge thing and we connected on comics, and from there it was basically like uh an avalanche or you know, snowball effect of of friendship. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:36.799 If I was to list off the the number of friends that I have that are straight edge, we'd be here like another 10, 20 minutes. 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:37.440 Sick. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.759 So like I'm I'm pretty familiar with with that lifestyle and just the the scene for my audio listeners. 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.519 You're wearing a hat that says read comics, listen to hardcore. 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:47.919 Yeah. 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:58.320 And I mean, we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about you know the parallels between hip-hop and and comics, but I I think it'd be remiss if we didn't bring up hardcore a little bit and straight edge in the punk scene. 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:04.879 Yeah I feel like there's obviously Vin diagram between comics and hip-hop and a lot of similarities and the things they share, the the cross-references and etc. 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:12.559 And I don't know enough about it to comment on it, but would you say there is a similar Venn diagram with straight edge, hardcore, like the punk scene? 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:15.679 Is it is it something about like the DIY nature of it? 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:17.600 1000%, dude. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:28.799 Like there is maybe more so than ever, the the crossover between hardcore and comics, like hardcore guys that like are into comics is for sure more more prevalent than it's ever been. 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:40.320 But also, dude, the the parallels and uh intersections or the Venn diagram, as you put it, between hardcore and rap also a thousand percent there, dude. 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:54.480 Like um that kind of outlaw spirit, the kind of do-it-yourself spirit, got it, you know, guys going out on tour and driving themselves around for 200 days a year and sleeping in the back of you know, crusty old vans and playing shows for little to no money. 00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:02.159 Like there's and probably more so like independent kind of underground hip-hop and and hardcore are a little more linked. 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:15.840 Um, there's there's not a ton of similarities between Discord records, revelation records style, like indie hardcore, and then like your big Warner Brothers records rap guys, but um it's it's absolutely there, dude. 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:16.320 100%. 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.039 So you end up getting this job at at Now or Never. 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.960 You're you're doing a little bit of everything. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:25.679 Um well, I I I guess let's just jump straight into it since we we brought up hip-hop. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.399 Uh, where did the idea for cream come from? 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.600 And and I also want to add to that, you know, I mentioned the intro, it the name is just so catchy. 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:34.480 It's like right there, right? 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.559 It's like, come on, comics rule everything around me. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:41.279 One of the most iconic, maybe the most iconic acronym in hip-hop history. 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:46.080 I guess where did when did the phrase comics rule everything around me like first click for you? 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.519 So I've been writing for probably 15 years or so. 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:54.000 I've I've always been a better reader, writer like in school than anything else. 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:58.320 Um, I was terrible at math, not great at science, but like reading and writing got me got me through. 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:03.759 Have always been a little bit of a bookworm and have like off and on throughout my life, have loved comics. 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:14.480 But probably like senior year of high school, I was writing for the school paper, and then a couple years after that, I was volunteering at a local venue. 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:26.480 I was living in Arizona and was working at this venue called Open Aired that on Fridays would be hip-hop shows, Saturday would be hardcore shows, Sunday would be church. 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:32.079 And so my brother and I were volunteering, it was a nonprofit, it's very like indie DIY. 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:35.599 I'd work the hip-hop shows and then I'd go and work the hardcore shows. 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:44.480 And through that stuff, I met this guy who was running a website and a blog called Underneath the Desert, and it was like this underground Arizona hip-hop blog. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.480 And he was like, Hey man, I know you're a writer. 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:48.079 Will you write some stuff for my website? 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:49.279 And I was like, Yeah, sure, man. 00:17:49.279 --> 00:18:02.160 And I had this idea, and what we called it was anime and hip hop where I would month after month would find an anime reference in a song and then write about that reference on the blog. 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.519 I would write about the song, I'd write about the artist, I'd write about the anime. 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:11.279 Give me some examples because I I don't I don't think I've ever thought about the anime or even manga references. 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.440 And I feel like it's probably a little more prevalent now because Yeah,

for sure. 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:22.480 Yeah, there just seems like a to be a bigger spotlight on on uh black culture and and anime in like that bin diagram. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.559 But I never thought about the hip-hop lyric. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:29.759 Obviously, I could go on and on about the different the comic book ones, but give me a few examples of anime. 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.480 Um so J-Rock's song, Hood Gonna Love It. 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.279 Uh you ain't gotta like it because gonna love it. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.359 Um J-Rock says, Whip like a fireball, call it Goku. 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:40.400 Okay, okay. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:45.279 Um, there is, I mean, there's the Wu Tang, like, you know, connect like Voltron uh line. 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.960 So that was kind of like like the the first inkling or even like uh uh uh like through line to the cream was like this idea. 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:58.160 One day when this becomes a book, because that's that's the like down the road goal, is that this becomes a book. 00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:59.599 I I will talk more about that. 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:09.119 But yeah, man, that's basically like that's where the seed was planted, is like me noticing, okay, there's these rappers that are mentioning anime and manga stuff. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:21.680 And then as you know, we get to like 2015 and Marvel does the hip-hop variant program, and then I start listening to, you know, like I've always listened to rap, but then you start listening for it for a differ with a different kind of ear, right? 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.839 Like, oh, there's these hip hop variant covers. 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:27.519 Oh, and I remember when this guy said this, or I remember when this guy said that. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:41.440 Um, and so actually, probably the the real actual beginning of of Comics Rule Everything Around Me is I was reading Jack Kirby's New Gods for the first time, and reading Jack Kirby's New Gods made me want to revisit Tom King's Mr. 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:42.000 Miracle. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.319 Nice, and then rereading Tom King's Mr. 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.880 Miracle, which is probably my favorite Tom King, by the way. 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:47.599 Sure, yeah. 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.640 That made me want to revisit Isaiah Rashad's house is burning. 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:52.880 Yeah. 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.240 And Bodder, you probably also we haven't got to talk about this yet, also, man. 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:03.920 But uh my dad was in the military, so I I bounced around a lot as a kid, but bounced around between basically the south and the southwest. 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:11.039 So my life can be broken into like three chunks geographically the South, Arizona, or California. 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.599 Well, when you say South, what what what state are we talking? 00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:14.000 City. 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:15.599 So I was born in North Carolina. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:16.000 Okay. 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:21.279 I lived in Virginia, I lived in Tennessee, I've got family in Alabama, I've got family in Texas. 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.880 Okay, you got the South covered. 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.559 I got it, you got the South covered. 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:28.160 I'm like Southern, my mom is from Virginia, my dad's from Texas slash Alabama. 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.799 I am like Southern by blood. 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:37.680 So most of my like early rap fandom was either Beastie Boys or Southern rap. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.319 Cash Money Millionaires, 3-6, yada yada yada. 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.319 I got married on March 6th, so that my anniversary would be 3-6. 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.359 I know for a fact you probably what? 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:54.400 You've definitely probably played um oh my god, why am I drawing a blank on the the number one at 3-6 in Outcast wedding fire? 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:55.359 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.519 Played at my wedding for the record, by the way. 00:20:57.519 --> 00:20:58.720 I've also had that on the playlist. 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:00.160 It's the wedding song now. 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.559 Come on, like it's the wedding song of a generation. 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:16.480 Uh so no, so like this is all like very long way of saying, um, so when Isaiah Rashad got going in like 2012, 2013, whatever it was, I've lived my life to Sylvia demo, dude. 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:24.079 Bro, it was Sylvia demo was on I cannot explain to you how much I played that album. 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.880 Soundtrack to my life for like two years, dude. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.359 Yeah. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:33.680 And um when he dropped his next one, that one I I liked a another song that I read. 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.079 Yep. 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:41.920 But then when he dropped The House is Burning, I was like, oh, this and his second song I think is called Dark Side. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.839 So I'm rereading Tom King's Mr. 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:49.359 Miracle, and I'm like, oh shit, like Dark Side, I need to go listen to some of you know Isaiah Rashad again. 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.440 So I'm listening to Dark Side, and he's mentioning the new gods, and I was like, you know what? 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.039 How many of these are there? 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.079 I need to dig into this. 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.680 I know like the BC boys. 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:07.680 Mention Von Bodhi and Cheech Wizard and like because Beastie Boys are kind of like the beginning of me caring about music, dude. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.200 I'd I'd loved music before that. 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.039 I'd listen to music a ton before that. 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:12.000 But anyways, dude. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:18.960 So yeah, I I just had to start digging in and seeing like how many people do this, how

prevalent is it? 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:23.440 Is it just uh a certain section of guys in this one place? 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:25.119 Is it everybody? 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.279 Is it a newer thing? 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:28.400 Is it an older thing? 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:31.759 And it just sent me down the the proverbial rabbit hole, dude. 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:39.759 It is it's such a deeper and wider uh you know pool of stuff than I really realized. 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:59.519 I think I'd known for a while, because I've worked at the shop now for over five years, and that started connecting a lot of comic dots for me too, where like I'd kind of had a lot of the musical stuff kind of stored, but I didn't have all the comic connections because I was still pretty like I was a little like narrow focused in terms of my comic appreciation. 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:06.799 But then I started seeing like, oh, this guy Bob Camp who did these Conan covers, he also did the this cover for this group, Nucleus. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:11.359 Oh, and then Nucleus has got a song where they talk about breakdance battling Superman. 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:18.160 Which I had I mean, that was one advantage of I have not actually read the volume two top to bottom. 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:21.519 I've just flipping through it, and uh Bob Camp was new to me. 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.720 I had no idea that, or even about this group Nucleus at all. 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.440 Yeah, dude. 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:36.799 So like that's they're still they're early enough in rap, like early 80s, to where it's still a little bit like it's still kind of disco, it's still kind of dancy, still like a little electro. 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:44.480 They're they're very much rapping, and they've got a song, you know, one of those old school like seven-minute rap songs with no chorus. 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:50.880 And and they talk about breakdance battling Superman, and it's like oh shit. 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:59.759 And then Bob Camp's got he did the cover for both of their first two albums, and he did the single for Africa Bambada's uh Renegades of Funk. 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.000 Yep, which is a very important hip-hop record. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:15.119 And I can't remember which one it is, the the Nucleus albums or Renegades of Funk, but dude, like on the back of them, whichever one it is, like they actually shout out like thanks to Marvel Comics, thanks to Stan Lee, thanks Bob Camp. 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.839 And it's like, oh man, like this is this is happening in like the earliest days of this. 00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:39.519 And so that kind of became again like this snowball effect of I was looking at references and songs, and then it became now I'm seeing artwork, and then it became now I'm seeing comic artists who are doing stuff for rap album covers, and then it became oh, I've never realized like Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five. 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.359 They're borrowing that naming convention from the Fantastic Four. 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:57.759 Um, and then you start looking at old school stuff like Wild Style or Style Wars, and these dudes are doing graffiti and they're putting, you know, Von Bodhi characters in in graffiti pieces, or um Donde, um, R.I.P. 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:13.440 is very important graffiti artist from early New York City graffiti days, has this piece called Children of the Grave where there's like a big hand like reaching out on this uh subway car, and it's it's his name, Don Di, but like just before it, there's this big hand reaching out. 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:21.039 Oh yeah, and if you know if you know it, it's a Jack Kirby forever hand from like the cover of an Avengers dude. 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:25.279 And like I I saw it and was like, oh, that looks like a comic book hand. 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:32.160 So Bodr, I sent uh uh this picture to Aaron from Now or Never, and I said, Hey bro, uh who drew this hand? 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:34.480 Is this like a Bushema hand, a Kirby hand? 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:44.960 And uh Botter, I swear, dude, within like I don't even know if it was 10 minutes, uh Aaron had sent me an Avengers cover with Thor like reaching out and it's like it's clear as day. 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:50.319 It's if it's not that hand, it's damn near close as like real, real close, dude. 00:25:50.319 --> 00:26:13.759 And so I was like, yo, like even these graffiti guys in like the late 70s, early 80s, as graffiti is taking off the way that it took off, they are looking at comics, and then you start like looking at the way that they would fill pieces or that they would put like background effects, and it starts if you're a comic book guy, uh, or if you're a comic book person, excuse me, I feel like you could start to see some of these backgrounds and effects and be like, yo, that's Kirby Crackle. 00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:23.920 Or yo, that's like that's the way this dude colored this thing, or that's the logo from this thing, besides just seeing the characters, and so yeah, man, it just it just became a huge, huge rabbit hole. 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.279 And the the comics rule everything around me, the name. 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:29.119 Um, I appreciate the props. 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:39.839 I definitely like once I read it, because I've got to give you know appropriate credit, I was on Blue Sky thumbing through random accounts and Becky Clonin, dude. 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:44.000 I think it's I'm I'm pr I'm like 97% sure it's Becky Clonen. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:47.440 Her profile on Blue Sky just says comics rule everything around me. 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.559 And I was like, oh shit, that's the name of the scene. 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.079 Because I didn't have a name at that point. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:54.960 I actually didn't even really have a zine at that point, dude. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:02.640 I I had done the Ash Can

for Comic-Con last year, and outside of the Ash Can, I had this little like demo one that I made. 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:17.359 I wish I had it handy here, where I had just taken like 10 pieces of paper, folded them, and put like a the BC Boys article, and then I drew a Cheech Wizard, and then I put like a you know, uh the Jay-Z thing, and then I put a picture of uh Kingdom come. 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:21.519 And it was really just like this little DIY, like I just wanted to show a homie. 00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.160 And he saw it and he was like, nah, dude, it's this is way deeper than this. 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.440 You gotta go harder than this. 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:28.720 And I was like, You think so? 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:30.880 And he was like, Yeah, bro, like go go hard. 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:38.160 And so that's how it became 50 something pages of references and you know, all the stuff it became. 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:40.319 I'm so glad you connected the dots like that. 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:47.200 I I guess in my head, this zine project was a lot longer in the process making. 00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:51.440 I didn't know that a lot of this happened, you know, hell just recently. 00:27:51.599 --> 00:28:08.799 Um I've I've been brainstorming and collecting info, dude, for probably two-ish years, two and a half years, actually working on it, actually making it, writing it, editing it, designing, laying out for now like a year, Comic-Con to Comic-Con. 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:15.119 Well, you know, I I I guess what I like hearing about this origins, one kudos to you for giving prosper Beggy Clunen, who is a genius. 00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:19.440 Like it kind of is like, okay, yeah, she's like a genius at this thing. 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:32.240 But hearing you mention the Marvel hip-hop variant covers, yeah, and how that also plays into like the genesis of of the story of putting together uh cream. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:41.039 I remember working at the comic shop and feeling validated in a way, as someone that was like a big hip-hop head and loved comics. 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:49.759 Like it was a validation to me to have these two things that I knew shared uh equal respect and love for a lot of the reasons you shared, right? 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:54.480 Like we can go down the history of hip-hop and find so many, you know, uh comic book references. 00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:00.400 I think a big part of it is because Marvel's based out of New York has always been, you know, you know what I'm saying? 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.400 Like that New York love and hip-hop, you know, New York, all of that. 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:15.200 But there was something about being able to have conversations about these albums and these um these covers and who they homaged at the comic shop. 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:19.039 For me, it was like a big validation, like, oh wow, okay, I know I'm in the right place. 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.920 These two art forms that I love have mutual respect. 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.359 So it's cool to hear how that had an impact on you as well. 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.079 Yeah, man. 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:32.000 But uh just hearing you mention the Marvel hip-hop variants, like obviously it was wildly successful. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.799 I mean, those covers were selling out all the time. 00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:40.160 I still uh come across ones I I've never seen before, like, you know, brand new ones. 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.559 Um, there's way more than I thought they did, dude. 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:43.920 Yeah, because they continued on. 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.799 You know what I'm saying? 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.880 There was like it felt like they were putting out in waves. 00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:50.640 And I remember by the second wave, I was like, okay, I think I've got all the ones I want. 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:56.640 Looking back, I should have just scooped up all of them, but I think they continued on for like three, four. 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:01.039 I mean, obviously it wasn't like the numbers started dwindling and it just got way more obscure, too. 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:01.680 Like some of the covers. 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:03.920 Yes. 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.720 When you think about this campaign, the Marvel hip-hop variants, what covers uh uh stand out to you? 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.319 Were there any that you were like exceptionally kind of excited that they homaged? 00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:20.720 I I think in my hunt now, dude, I've got somewhere between like 40 and 50 of the hip-hop variants, and the ones that immediately jumped to mind. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:25.599 I I love that Power Man and Iron Fist one uh because I also love that series, like David F. 00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:28.000 Walker and and Sanford Green killed that. 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.559 But the the Del Mundo ones, like I know that's your dude, you know he's my dude. 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.000 Shout out Mike Del Mundo, like one one of the best doing it right now. 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.160 Underrated interior artist, man. 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:38.640 For sure. 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:43.119 I love that he gets the love and respect for his covers because he should, because his covers are next level. 00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:44.960 Underrated interior artist. 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:50.880 But no, man, his his Spider-Man Tribe Called Quest, it's perfect. 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:52.640 It is absolutely perfect. 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.960 Like it, it is just it's so New York. 00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:06.640 Yep, it's so Spider-Man, it's a perfect recreation of the cover, and then all you do is you flip the girl in her stance into Spider-Man hanging from the web, and it's yeah, it's meant to be, dude. 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.200 It's meant to be. 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:24.640 You know, and Spider-Man is a character with not only a rogues gallery, but

a supporting gallery that that lets you play off of that tribe called Quest cover, where it was like, you know, they had a who's who of hip-hop, you know, uh alumni in their cover, and now you've got like Spider-Man's kind of rogue gallery and familiar faces. 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:25.440 You know what I'm saying? 00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:31.279 Like it's one of those perfectly executed, you know, it was just to your credit, it would it was perfect. 00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:32.000 100%. 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.160 And some of my other favorite ones are like I love the Jay-Z Black Panther one. 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:38.480 Brian Stelfries, I love that cover. 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.279 Stelfries is one of the gods, dude. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:41.680 Yeah, yeah. 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:42.640 Um, truly. 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:54.079 I love and I I feel bad for not remembering the artist who did this one, but it's uh an Amadeus Cho Hulk cover that is an homage to a Sean Price album. 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.319 Oh, and it goes hard as hell, dude. 00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.160 I was just looking at that one. 00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:03.839 Yeah, I don't remember the the the cover artist either, but um I want to give a shout out really quick. 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:11.680 There is a Mighty Thor variant that homages Mad Villainy, and it's just that stark black and white, the helmet. 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:12.640 I mean, you know what I'm saying? 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:18.319 It's like some of those covers are as I don't know, iconic as the the album covers themselves. 00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:26.400 Like I mean, dude, Bill Bill Sinkevich doing Star Lord as Kid Cuddy, Bill Sinkevich doing uh Nick Fury as Bobby Digital. 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:31.440 I love those because it's it's Sinkovich getting to exactly homage himself. 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:32.319 Yeah, it's real meta. 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.559 And Dennis Cowan doing Contest of Champions, that's liquid swords. 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:38.160 He's getting to homage himself. 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.680 Um, those are standouts. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:46.559 I got to witness the Marvel Hip Hop variant campaign influence people to check out some of those albums and covers. 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:54.000 Like I remember being invited on another friend's podcast to go through every single album cover and my thoughts on the album. 00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:10.799 And you know, it was just cool to have the conversation, to like have especially for me who was working at a comic shop at the time, to have like these two conversations that I could talk about all day and get people onto like hip hop and certain artists, and you know, help them like kind of like traverse certain rabbit holes. 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.039 I think it is still to this day one of my favorite moments in comics, period. 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:26.400 It was it felt like I think the way I described this one time to a friend was that, you know, for so long, because of these references we hear in songs, like from the Wu-Tang guys, right? 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:34.559 Like Method Man is Johnny Blaze, and um, you know, uh Tony Stark's excuse me, freaking Ghostface is is Tony Stark Iron Man. 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:42.240 Yeah, you hear all these references and you hear all these connections and you see the artwork, and you're like, yo, hip-hop loves comics. 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:43.839 Of course they do. 00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:47.759 But for a while, it just looked like one-sided. 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.880 Yeah, it's rap, rap loves comics. 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:56.880 And then this Marvel variant campaign shows everybody that comics also love rap. 00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:02.160 Yeah like this this is not just a one-way street, like most things in life. 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:18.079 And and I think that was a real kind of like watershed moment for a lot of nerds like us to be like these these two things we've we've maybe had always had felt that there's this Venn diagram, but had never seen it, be had never seen the dots. 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:20.320 Yeah, it was validating in multiple ways. 00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:25.440 And I'd be remiss right now, you know, speaking about like kind of these these big moments that combine the two fandoms. 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:38.960 You know, over your left or your right shoulder, left, right, whatever the camera right, yeah, you've got the the legend has it, the Nas and DJ Premier album in the the Mike Del Mundo variant as well as the Days Las Soul variant. 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:51.599 Um, which, you know, it's been cool to watch Marvel and Mass Appeal team up for that giant campaign as well to embrace comics to get artists like you know Mike Del Mundo to to Sanford Green, you know, to also work on it. 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:58.719 You know, it's cool to see like if it felt like it it's building upon what Marvel already set up and it, you know, and and all of that. 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:02.000 So I want to get back to talking about Cream uh in the zine. 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.400 Why specifically did you feel like a zine was the the was the right format? 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:10.719 Like, did you have any other formats in mind, like uh I don't know, like a blog post, a newsletter? 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.159 Like why why the zine route? 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:14.480 When I started writing this, dude, you know what everybody said? 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.840 This should be a podcast. 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:16.800 Oh, really? 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:17.920 I already did that. 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:19.519 I don't want to do a podcast again. 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.679 I'm a I'm a writer, I'm a I'm a writer by nature, dude. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:26.960 I um I didn't mention this earlier. 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.679 Uh are you familiar with the clothing company, The Hundreds? 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.480 I was actually going to ask

you about that because I came across something uh online while I was researching. 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.480 I was like, does Zach write for the hundreds? 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.519 Bobby hundreds? 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:38.239 The brand? 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:39.599 Yeah, man. 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:40.880 I used to write for the hundreds. 00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:42.079 What do you mean you used to write? 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:43.119 Because I mean it's a clothing company. 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:43.599 What'd they have? 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:44.159 Like a blog? 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:45.039 So yeah, dude. 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:46.800 So that was how the hundreds blew up, bro. 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:47.599 Um okay. 00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:48.400 Put me on the game. 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:57.840 Bobby kind of pioneered this, and and somebody smarter than me, somebody who is still more tapped into streetwear, will will have like a more eloquent way of saying this. 00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:14.880 But the way that streetwear is now so like wrapped up into like social media and showing you like behind the scenes stuff and why we did this design and why we did that, and why we're going to this uh you know convention or whatever this event. 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.760 I like Bobby's the pioneer of all that, dude. 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:18.559 Interesting. 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:18.880 Okay. 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:53.440 Bobby when they started the hundreds, he started a blog and almost every day, dude, was posting something like here's some new shirts we got printed, here's a new thing I went and did, oh, I met this guy who took me to this studio and I checked out his art, or hey, here's my friend, like, oh, here's the odd future kids hanging out in front of the store on Fairfax, whatever the case you know was, you could always go to the blog and find something to connect with, a story to connect with that brought you into their world. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:37:00.400 And so it wasn't just like, oh, these dudes are also making fire tees and dope hoodies, and Adam Bomb is super catchy and like all that. 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.400 You could also go and get a glimpse of who these guys were as people. 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:09.119 And when I was living in Arizona, I lived in this super small town called Yuma, Arizona, dude. 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:09.920 Shout out Yuma. 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:18.320 I I've got a little bit of a love-hate relationship with Yuma Arizona, but like it's this super small town, it's military and agriculture, it's all it's got going on. 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:32.000 But I think because I'd moved around, because I was in like I'd skateboarded and had been into writing and hip-hop and all these different things, like I I always had my eyes like out. 00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:36.159 I was looking looking for more stuff to like build up who I am. 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:43.599 And I had a buddy that put me onto like sneaker and streetwear culture, because he was from San Diego, uh, my homie Josh. 00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:44.719 Shout out, Josh. 00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:54.960 And uh we basically like we were those dudes that lived on Nike Talk forums, hype-based forums, the hundreds. 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.199 Back when the internet was a proper place. 00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.039 Back when we were a proper country, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:07.679 That had proper like before social media like took every subculture and made it like not subculture. 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:15.119 Yeah, you had to go and find these places, find these communities, and you had to kind of like be a student. 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:21.039 You had to work your way in, and you had to like show people you were like down, if you will. 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:33.679 You couldn't just like pop on social media, post the shoes that you had just got from the Nike sneakers drop, and be like, oh, I'm a sneakerhead because I just copied the Travis Scotts, you know, like not enough. 00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:38.000 There there was there was a a certain level of acceptable gatekeeping. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.159 Gatekeeping I call it healthy gatekeeping. 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:41.039 Healthy gatekeeping, yeah. 00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:41.679 That's a good phrase. 00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:54.559 Can I real quick uh speaking hearing like you talk about hundreds and and the Nike forums, can I tell you the first time I ever bought my first 100s piece, which I think was in uh um the Adam the Bomb tea, uh was off of Moose Unlimited. 00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.239 Yeah, I to this day without I think there is a I think Moose Unlimited still exists, but it's not you know, it's just not the same thing. 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:00.880 Sure, sure, sure. 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:08.480 Man, I used to cop so the hundreds, um crooks and castles, uh Supras. 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.480 Um I actually might try to see if I can find any of like these old receipts. 00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:16.400 Like I used to have to send in money orders to get clothes, you know what I'm saying? 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:17.760 Like rap tees. 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:19.679 I used to have this like dope ass big LT. 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.280 I forgot who is the maker of it, but good times, yeah. 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:24.719 Okay, so anyways, yeah. 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:30.079 So so you end up writing for for the hundreds, um, and how does that tie into cream and the decision to go Z? 00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:50.159 That was that was just a big, a big thing for me personally, was like was moving to San Diego, meeting Ben and Bobby, and getting to write for the blog and be like, oh man, like writing is not just the thing that I could do as a hobby, like I can actually make money and make connections and do cool shit by writing. 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.039 And I interviewed Mike Shinoto of Lincoln Park. 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:55.840 Nice, and

then I ended up working for Mike Shinoto of Lincoln Park. 00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.960 I interviewed Kevin Eastman, like the writing for the hundreds took me places. 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:01.599 That's cool. 00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.400 And showed me, like, yo, your writing can take you places. 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:13.840 So when the like the idea for comics rule everything around me starts like circling and becoming this kind of thing that's looming over me, I was like, man, this this feels like a book. 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:23.760 This feels like there's enough stuff here for me to dig into, there's enough people for me to talk to, there's enough material to cover, this could be a book. 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:31.599 And there is now more hip-hop books than there's ever been Doom book, Fab Five Freddy book, hip hop and comics book. 00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:33.280 Like, there's I've got quest loves. 00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:35.039 What is the you said a hip-hop and comics book? 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:35.760 What is that one? 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.039 This is hip hop and comics. 00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:38.159 Whoa, need it. 00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:39.519 Uh, this is edited by Dr. 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:40.559 Sheena Howard. 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:41.840 If you guys don't uh know Dr. 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.119 Sheena Howard, follow her. 00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.760 I believe she's written uh some stuff for Marvel. 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:54.880 She wrote a book about um Black Panther and Wakanda and like what that means for you know Afrofuturism and uh black culture and black literature. 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:56.719 I'm gonna buy that book after we're done. 00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.360 I've got the Fat Five Freddy book in my in my cart. 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:05.199 Like at this also has a foreword in it by a guy named uh Patrick Reed, who is a DJ. 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:11.280 Patrick Reed has some of the dopest mixes out there, like all of his sample mixes, some of my favorites. 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:16.719 Patrick Reed is the dude that does the hip hop and comics panel at Comic-Con every year. 00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:18.320 He's been doing it since 2012. 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:19.519 How did I know this? 00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:20.000 So I am. 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.599 I feel like I wasted my Comic Con. 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:22.719 I wasted my Comic-Con. 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.519 I didn't go to the fucking hip-hop and comics panel. 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:26.480 Cool. 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.119 Please keep me keep me in the loop for next year. 00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:33.599 Zach, I feel like you when you go to Comic Con, you do the shit that I want to go find. 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:35.599 As a first timer, I think I missed out on some stuff. 00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:37.920 When I can get there, I definitely. 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:39.440 But hearing but you know what? 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:44.000 I'll go ahead and add to it and

say that I I think it was a smart decision to go the zine and book route. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.079 Because first of all, volume one of Cream is all about hip-hop lyrics referencing comics. 00:41:48.079 --> 00:41:50.800 So you're already talking about the written word, right? 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.000 Like these words and all that. 00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:56.400 So I think it makes sense just thematically to have a physical book. 00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.320 I bought volume two from you in person. 00:41:58.320 --> 00:41:58.960 Thank you. 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.159 I, you know, bought volume one when you when you posted it last year. 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.119 I even bought like a digital copy because I didn't want to mess up my physical copy. 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:06.800 Let me go and admit to you. 00:42:06.800 --> 00:42:08.960 I did not read all the way through. 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:13.199 When I bought that book, like many things, I put it in my stack of things to read. 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:17.599 And I did not read volume one until I was leaving the flight from San Diego back home. 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.639 I was like, well, I got volume two, I should probably read volume one. 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:25.280 And I spent the entire flight from San Diego to Dallas reading volume one. 00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.400 And I think that was when I was like, Yeah, I need to hit this dude up. 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:29.679 I need to have him on the show. 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:33.119 Because the labor of love that you put into it, man, it's thank you, man. 00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:36.880 And I think it's not, you know, you're not just saying, like, hey, here is a reference. 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.480 You know, it's not like a listical, it's not a very, you know, like what I'm saying. 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:42.239 You could have gone a very straightforward route. 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.760 That could have easily been like a social media post or something. 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:55.119 But I think the research that you put into it, the the level, uh uh, the dedication, obviously, like your passion for the medium and just writing, it also looks really good too. 00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:57.599 Um, I do you do most of the graphic design in it? 00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.039 That's it's all me, dude. 00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:12.400 There's a couple in the first issue, there's a a few pieces that I had friends contribute art to um just because I wanted to like put on some local friends and I wanted to have a few more kind of visual things to break up some of all that writing, all that text. 00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:18.880 But yeah, dude, the writing, design, layout, that's all me, for better or for worse. 00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:27.199 The leap from the second one from the first one, I think you'll see when you dig into the second one, it's way heavier visually, and that's by design because it's about art. 00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:27.519 Sure. 00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:31.679 It's also just because now I know what I'm doing and I know like kind of what I'm what I'm going for. 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:32.079 Okay. 00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:41.360 But I still just last night going back through it and prepping for stuff today, found like two more spelling errors and like design errors, and was like, oh god damn. 00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:45.679 Second print's gonna have some uh some cleanup that needs to be done. 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:52.000 But uh before we get to talking about uh volume two, I do want to give you some props about volume one because I ended up learning two things. 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:56.400 Well, um there's two observations, one that uh two observations I wanted to note. 00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:59.760 One, you list two of my favorite comic book references. 00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:11.440 In hip-hop, one of them being most deaf on respiration, uh when he says, 'You pay or die, no options, no Batman or Robin.' Can't tell between the cops and the robbers, they both partners. 00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:13.280 They all heartless, of no conscience. 00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:26.480 Like one of my favorite comic book, uh, because you know, and and I think what what your your zine did was kind of show the full gamut of these references, where sometimes it's as simple as like, you know, I'm sharp like Wolverine's claws, right? 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:27.599 Like, I don't think anyone said that. 00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.360 Uh trademark water milligan. 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:38.320 But or in that case, like most deaf, where he like he's weaving it into like, you know, these multi-syllable rhymes and like, you know, inner rhymes and all of that. 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:50.639 So I do like that you you go from like very straightforward comic book rhymes with like very easy Easter eggs to like, here's how it's a little deeper in the double entendres, which leads me to my second uh uh point I wanted to make. 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:58.320 There's a few instances where you're writing like a couple of paragraphs about the reference, the song, the album that it's on. 00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:04.480 In particular, uh uh you have uh a page about uh Jay-Z Kingdom Come. 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:19.840 And one of my favorite comic book references from one of my favorite rappers, when he says, I've been up in the office, you might know him as Clark, but just when you thought the whole world fell apart, I take off the blazer, loosen up the tie, step inside the booth, Superman is alive. 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:20.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.079 Love that lyric. 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:26.960 Little did I know that the album, you know, and obviously it's on the album Kingdom Come. 00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:29.760 I did not know that the comic book, even though it's like right there. 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:36.880 Like I did, I had never thought about the comic book tie to Mark Wade and Alex Ross's seminal body

of work. 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:38.400 It's also you know what I'm saying? 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:42.800 I I guess I always assumed it was more of the biblical reference, Die Kingdom Come. 00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:43.760 Sure, sure, sure. 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:52.960 You did a great job breaking down how you know young guru being a a comic book head and you know him tie, you know, uh uh you know, mentioning it to Jay-Z and all of that. 00:45:52.960 --> 00:46:09.760 Like, you know, there's a lot I think that your seasoned hip hop head, comic book lover, could learn from this to even like just like even if you have no knowledge or basis of any of those, I think someone could pick up volume one for sure and learn, and I think really appreciate certain nuances to it. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:10.960 I appreciate that, man. 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:13.920 Uh really, really appreciate the kind words and the feedback. 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:16.159 And that was that was definitely the goal. 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:23.679 Cause when I when I started out, and and a lot of that, a lot of those digger, digger, a lot of those deeper digs. 00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.760 Um, I gotta give my man uh Jake Zelaki credit. 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:29.920 Um, Jake helps me edit the zine. 00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:30.239 Okay. 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:37.039 He is a writer, he's an editor, he's a professor at USD here in town, real sharp cat, one of the smartest dudes I've ever met. 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:48.400 And he started shopping at the shop a couple years ago, and we connected through comics and then we connected through both being writers, and he was the guy that I was showing, like, hey, I've got this idea, and this is kind of what I'm doing, like kind of just a fun little thing. 00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.320 And he was like, nah, man, it's deeper than that. 00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.079 He's like, go, go harder. 00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.119 Like, okay, this guy says this, why does he say that? 00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:00.400 And and he's got this kind of writing thing that he lives by where he tells himself, so what? 00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:06.559 If you you find something that you think is interesting, or you find something that like you want to talk about, so what? 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.159 So, what makes it important? 00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:09.760 What makes it worth digging into? 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:11.519 What makes it worth sharing? 00:47:11.519 --> 00:47:17.440 And so, to your point, like at first it kind of was just a find these things and call them out. 00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:21.199 Yo, in this song, this dude says this, and that's all it was gonna be. 00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:34.800 I talked to Jake, and Jake was like, that's cool if you're trying to show how big it is and how often it happens, trying to show like the breadth of this thing, which is why I ended up doing like the pages with the like the smaller examples. 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:40.719 Yeah, but he was like, But there's more to this than guys just being like, Hey, Wolverine, hey, Spider-Man. 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.760 And so that's how I got into the longer ones where like Kingdom Come and Jay-Z. 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.840 Like that was something that I had written that in there as a as just a reference. 00:47:49.840 --> 00:48:00.320 Like, hey, Jay-Z mentions in one song he mentioned Superman a couple times, Batman and Spider-Man, but then started digging into it, and I was like, All right, man, the song is called Kingdom Come, the album's called Kingdom Come. 00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:01.679 There's got to be something to this, right? 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:03.440 And then sure as shit, there was something to it. 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:06.320 Like, looked it up, and people were like, Yeah, guru showed him this album. 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:07.280 I was like, or this comic? 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:08.480 I was like, Oh shit, of course. 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:21.360 Yeah, but like really dug into the ones that I felt like I could speak to a little bit more, like the Isaiah Rashad, like the Beastie Boys in Von Bodie, like the um the Jay-Z Kingdom Come, Feral Manch and X-Men. 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.559 I love that song. 00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:30.719 Um, and that one was kind of just a little bit of a uh I I knew that I could probably reach out to to Mike from Lincoln Park and ask him a few things about it. 00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:35.519 And so um I love Feromanch, he's one of my favorite MCs, so wanted to put that in there. 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:43.679 But yeah, man, I wanted to have like four or five examples of long form stuff that really show people like hey, these dudes aren't just saying this to say this. 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:44.159 Yeah. 00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:56.559 It's not just filling in space in a song, it's not just like no disrespect to guru because he's one of the goats, but that line, like lemonade was a popular drink and it still is. 00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:59.440 It's it's not just for fill in space, you know what I mean? 00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:06.320 Like some of these comic book references are they mean something to the MC, to the song, to the story. 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:13.519 And so I was I was just really trying to dig into that and show people like, hey, there's there's something more to this than just dudes putting words together. 00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:18.480 Yeah, it's methodical in some points, you know, like there's a lot more layers to it. 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:23.519 And I think that's what I enjoyed about volume one, which uh I want to go ahead and take a pause here, real quick. 00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:30.800 Volume one, you know, I'd say pretty fucking successful for like a DIY zine that you were selling out of the shop. 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:39.119 And real quick, when you ended up actually getting these printed, I'm assuming like Aaron, you know, now or never comics was very much like, yeah, let's

sell them here. 00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:44.159 Like, was there any, I guess, hesitation about like mixing, you know, personal with work and all of that? 00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:45.199 Nah, man. 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:50.960 Like, I mean, there was a little bit on my end, sure, as far as like, is Aaron gonna be cool with this? 00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:51.840 Should I do this? 00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:54.079 Am I kind of like taking advantage of the shop? 00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:57.360 But Aaron, I could I could sing this dude's praises all day. 00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:02.159 We could do a whole separate podcast about how good of a person Aaron Trice is. 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.960 Uh, shout out Aaron, shout out now or never comics, uh, now or never forever comics or death. 00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:15.360 Yeah, and I'm assuming the reception from the the you know customers and and locals was, I mean, obviously pretty damn good. 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:16.239 Yeah, man. 00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:17.280 That's that's the thing. 00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:26.639 Like, you know, to and to be fair and to not like make this seem like it's bigger than it is, first print run was a hundred copies, we sold out. 00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:29.679 Second print run was a hundred copies, sold out. 00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:36.639 Um, now there's a third printing, now there's the new issue, probably sold roughly a hundred or so of the of the new issue. 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:43.679 And I I like to think that I'm humble and I'm my own worst critic, I'm my own worst enemy. 00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:48.159 And so I think of this stuff and I'm like, oh man, I printed 300 of issue two and it hasn't sold out yet. 00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:51.199 I fucking suck, I've I'm done, nobody cares. 00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:59.519 And Aaron's had to remind me a couple times like, dude, you've sold 200 copies of number one and you've sold roughly 100 of this new one. 00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:05.519 Think about the number of books that we will order from Marvel or DC where we won't sell 100 copies. 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.360 Wow, that's a hella perspective. 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.880 And I was like, yo, like kind of like blew my fucking mind a little bit. 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:17.199 He's like, some some of our most popular books in the shop, we won't sell a hundred copies of until we get to like the third or fourth issue. 00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:21.039 And you're selling a $15, DIY. 00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:23.119 He's like, You should be proud of yourself. 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:26.000 People want to support you, people want to support this idea. 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:31.519 And that is it's a testament to the shop, it's a testament to the subject matter. 00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:35.280 Uh like comics and rap mean something to people like you and me. 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.440 Um, and he was like, and it's a testament to to you and what you mean to people here in the shop. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:46.320 And

I and that's where uh community over commerce all day in now or never comics do people overprofit. 00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:47.280 Like I love that. 00:51:47.440 --> 00:52:00.719 And I guess I bring up the reception and you know uh it its popularity and the successfulness because I want to go ahead and just let people know that it sounds like they can still buy a copy of volume one third printing, but if they prefer digital, there's always the digital route. 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:04.400 I'll have a link to where you can buy volume one in the show notes. 00:52:04.400 --> 00:52:10.639 Volume two hasn't made it to digital yet, uh, it sounds like very soon, but you've still got a couple of copies that are available. 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:13.280 What's the website that people can go to to buy a copy? 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:16.960 Um, so the digital one is uh Gumroad. 00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.199 Um, I've got a link in my bio on Instagram. 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:20.480 Thank you for sharing the link. 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:21.199 I appreciate it. 00:52:21.199 --> 00:52:26.000 Gumroad is just a service that allows people to create digital things and sell them online. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:35.360 I'm I'm in the process of making my own website and getting things set up so I can sell it myself and not have to give Gumroad uh as much money. 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:37.119 Um but for now, like it's totally cool. 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.760 I just want it to be out there, I want it to be available to people. 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:46.400 Um, second issue is available at Now or Never Comics, or bang my line in the DMs and I'll get one shipping. 00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:47.039 There we go. 00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:47.920 Okay, that's what I wanted to know. 00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:50.079 Until the website is up and ready. 00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:56.159 Um, it's just, you know, shoot me a DM and we'll we'll handle, you know, it's it's the cost of the zine, it's the cost of shipping. 00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:57.039 We're good to go. 00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:58.400 Small fee, trust me. 00:52:58.400 --> 00:52:59.119 Well worth it. 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:23.679 I do want to ask about the transition from volume one where it's a focus on on hip-hop references, I'm sorry, comic book references and lyrics, etc., to volume two, like you mentioned, goes a more visual route where you uh, I mean, volume two is literally titled Off the Spinner Racks into the record bins, which is more of a focus on actually, you know, you tell me what is volume two about and how is it distinctively different than volume one? 00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:24.719 Yeah, man. 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:33.119 So so volume two is specifically about comic book artists who have done album covers for rap albums. 00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:52.480 And I I had to kind of narrow that focus because there are a grip of albums that look like comic book covers or have like kind of comic-inspired artwork, um, like Loot Packs album, the name is escaping me right now, or like Organized Confusions, uh Stress the Extinction event. 00:53:52.480 --> 00:54:02.000 That is that's by a super talented dude named Matty Dew, or Matt Dew, I believe, uh was his art name, but like he was a great artist, he wasn't a comic book artist. 00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:02.400 Sure. 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:08.639 And so I was trying to focus on dudes who are actually like a part of the comic book industry who had done these album covers. 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:34.880 So it was guys like Bob Camp, Bill Sinkevich, Sanford Green, Mike Del Mundo, Mark Texera, um, and then had to stretch things a little tiny bit where guys like Lamore Supreme, who's done all the czarface stuff, he's not an active part of the comic book industry, but he did uh artwork for Zen the Intergalactic Ninja in the 90s, so like he was a comic book artist. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:35.920 Sure, yeah, yeah. 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:37.280 Those are good parameters to have. 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.760 You got you, man, or the thing is just is just huge, you know. 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:47.599 You could have easily extended the the comic book references and and rap lyrics, you know, theme to you know, four volumes if you want. 00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:50.559 I guess why the decision to go a completely different route? 00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:52.239 Was it just to keep it fresh for yourself? 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.119 To keep it fresh for me, to keep it fresh for readers, dude. 00:54:55.119 --> 00:55:01.840 And I, you know what, to to circle back a little bit, you had asked about why zines and I and I went off on some crazy tangent. 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:04.559 And that's uh Aaron and I have a motto in the shop. 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:06.000 We say long story longer. 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:09.360 Uh because we are uh very talkative dudes. 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:09.840 Sure. 00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:15.039 The reason I did zines is because when I when I started working on this, I was like, yo, this is a book. 00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:18.400 But if I tell myself I'm writing a book, I'll never do it. 00:55:18.559 --> 00:55:18.800 Sure. 00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:19.679 I'll never do it, bro. 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:26.239 It's too the idea is too big, the work is too big, it'll just loom over me and I'll never do a single fucking thing. 00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:31.039 Uh sorry if language is not cool on the let it fucking rip, brother. 00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:32.159 Okay, cool, cool, cool. 00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:51.679 So I was like, I'm gonna do these as zines so that they are digestible for me in the workload as a as a guy who works full time and as a husband and as a father, and then it will help me find this, find the fan base, find the people that this means something to, and bring you along for the ride, doing it one step at a time. 00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:57.199 And I wanted to break it out into subjects because again, that'll make it a little

more interesting for me doing the work. 00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:03.519 It'll make it a little more interesting for readers who either do know about this stuff or don't know about this stuff. 00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:10.400 And so I wanted to go with the art route on this one because in volume one, we're talking about the stuff we hear. 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:10.880 Sure. 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:21.360 And because we're we're listening to this music and we're hearing these uh references, that to me felt like the stuff that is actually more in your face than the album art. 00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:24.159 Because a lot of times we we don't see the album art. 00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:32.239 We're listening to this stuff on Spotify, or we're listening to this stuff on you know Apple Music, where we're just seeing like a little single cover and it doesn't mean that much, right? 00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:35.599 Like we're just listening to the music, music is the thing we're there for. 00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:37.519 That's why I wanted to start there. 00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:39.519 We hear it more often than we see it. 00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:50.880 But then to go from the things we hear, the references we hear, the connections we hear in the music, and then turn that into okay, I'm seeing this album art. 00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:55.760 And it just felt like the natural, the natural transition. 00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:01.840 And especially where because the first volume we're talking about lyrics, we're talking more about the rap side of things. 00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:04.960 Like the the Venn diagram is more focused on the rap stuff. 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:10.159 So because we're talking about lyrics, the focus is on rappers in volume two. 00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:16.480 Because we're talking about art, even though it's album art, the focus is on comic artists who are making this stuff. 00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:20.159 So it's it's balancing out that that Venn diagram. 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:30.320 And um, and I also too, like there was just a part of me that wanted to have an excuse to to talk about Mike Del Mundo and Bill Sinkevich and uh and Sanford Green. 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:35.840 And um a lot of it too was based on like who I thought I could talk to and who I thought I could interview. 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:40.639 You know, the first first volume ends with an interview with Slug from Atmosphere. 00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:42.159 Very good interview, by the way. 00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:44.960 I've never heard him talk to that extent about one. 00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:50.719 I didn't know he was like a comic book head to begin with, um, nor have I ever heard him, you know. 00:57:50.719 --> 00:58:06.800 So it was a it was a nice surprise to hear him to read, you know, this interview where he's talking about comics and how it plays into his music and the the the lessons that he learned, you know, uh from comic books, his time with MF Doom and seeing like his love of comics,

very good interview. 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:07.840 Yeah, thank you, man. 00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:35.599 And I, you know, what's like kind of cool and kind of a bummer about that stuff is like there are there are certain people in the industry who have worked with Doom and like know Doom on a like professional and personal level that will talk about him, but only so much because they want to preserve mystique, you know, you want to preserve the the icon, and and so there's some stuff in there that like Slug would kind of dance around a little bit, yeah. 00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:42.480 Um, and then there was stuff that I kept out because I was like, okay, Slug has been gracious enough to share this with me. 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:47.840 I've got to respect the legacy, I've got to respect the mystique, so like I've got to hold on to that, you know what I mean? 00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:51.679 But volume two, I mean, you you've mentioned some of these names, man. 00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:52.639 Some heavy hitters. 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:58.800 I mean, you it like you said, you've got a couple of like blurbs and short quotes from like uh Mike Del Mundo. 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:00.719 I mean, you're covering Bob Camp. 00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:05.039 Um, Sanford Green is in, you know, like fucking Dennis Cowan. 00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:05.920 I mean, come on, man. 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:14.400 That just a liquid swords cover is so iconic, and it took me so long to realize that it was Dennis Cohen uh that did actually. 00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:16.880 Let me show you something that I recently bought that I think you'd appreciate. 00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:30.239 I don't know if you know this, but a while uh um Marvel uh put out, you know, obviously they had the hip-hop variants, and they were so successful that they put out a couple of vinyl records with the the comic covers, but only three of them. 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:36.000 One of them, though, being his contest of champion uh vinyl with the Dennis Cohen art. 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:38.079 Uh, this is like a pride possession for me. 00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:41.440 I was so happy to finally get it, but it's so good, dude. 00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:47.280 Yeah, he I met him at Comic-Con, was was finally finally got to to actually. 00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:54.239 I gave him a copy of the zine, you know, told him thanks for his work, a another kind of interesting connection here. 00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:57.360 Um to to circle back to my homie Jake. 00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:09.519 Jake has uh done two books now with the University of Mississippi Press, um, where they do a series of books called Conversations with, and then it's a a comic book creator. 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:11.920 And Jake has done two of those in that series. 01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:14.800 One was with Todd McFarlane and one was with Dennis Cowan. 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:21.679 And so he in the Todd McFarlane one, uh it's him curating and editing previous interviews.

01:00:21.679 --> 01:00:27.199 In the Cowan one, it's him curating and editing previous interviews, and then he does his own interview. 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:33.119 So when I started working on the zine, I was like, hey man, I'm gonna use stuff about Dennis Cowan. 01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:34.719 Can I borrow anything from your book? 01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:40.880 And so that's why there's this section there with like the little one page, almost like an advertisement for this Dennis Cowan book. 01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:44.639 Because the quotes I got from Dennis Cowan are actually from Jake's book. 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:50.880 Yeah, and so when I went to Comic-Con, I told Dennis, like, hey man, I borrowed some of these uh quotes from this book. 01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:55.280 Like, Jake's a great guy, you know, needed to give you one of these. 01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:02.960 Thanks for your work, had him sign um the Contest of Champions, Liquid Swords Homage, and then a copy of uh static number one. 01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:03.519 Nice. 01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:05.440 Um if you don't start none, there won't be none. 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:16.480 Let me let me ask you this uh during the research of volume two, was there any interesting tidbits, things that you learned along the way that maybe you hadn't known prior to like starting? 01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:21.920 I mean, just for me, I mean flipping through it, I had no idea about Bob Camp, his involvement with hip hop. 01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:35.199 You know, even like learning about some of the the covers that Bill Sinkevich has worked on, you know, like the EPMD business as usual cover, you know, I think that's an easy one to look at and be like, oh, that's just a really nice graphic cover, and and you know, it looks almost painted. 01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:36.559 Yeah, it almost looks painted. 01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:38.000 Then you're like, oh shit, wait a minute. 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:44.159 Then once you know it's Bill Sinkevich, you're like, oh, there's all these signs, and like the you know, his style is is very apparent. 01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:48.079 Was there any, did you have any like light bulb aha moments while you were doing volume? 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:50.480 It's it's almost all light bulb moments, dude. 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:53.920 It's it's almost all like I told Bill this. 01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:55.920 Like, I love that kid cuddy album. 01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:59.119 That first cuddy album is was it hit me right on time. 01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:03.760 Like speaking about light bulb moments, only two years ago that I learned that he did the cover. 01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:07.760 Once again, another cover that is burned in my head. 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:13.199 That first Kid Cuddy album, I think for all of us like millennials, is like you know, it's it's close to home. 01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:16.000 Never would have thought it had a calmic book connection. 01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:23.519 It's it's one of those things that speaks to Bill's versatility as an artist and like the versatility of his art style. 01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:27.679 But like, same dude, like I've been listening to that album since it came out. 01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:40.559 The the cover is seared into my brain, and I'd probably read the album like liner notes to that thing 20 times, and probably saw the name Bill Sinkevich and was like, cool, whatever. 01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:51.039 But then, like, and had probably read comics with artwork by Bill Sinkevich, sure, but then working in the shop, like now or never has just become so pivotal, dude. 01:02:51.039 --> 01:03:02.159 Like as my my life and the things I'm doing now, but especially with these connections, I'm seeing more of this stuff because I'm surrounded by more of it. 01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:14.239 Like realizing that that's a Bill Sinkevich cover on Man on the Moon, then like kind of open these floodgates of like what else have I been looking at and not realizing that it's a comic book artist. 01:03:14.239 --> 01:03:18.800 And and so Mark Texera was a another good example where that's a great one. 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:19.039 Yeah. 01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:25.280 I'm not familiar with I'm not familiar with that era of Ghost Rider and Wolverine and Sabretooth. 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:37.679 I wasn't like a big 90s comics kid, so like Mark Texera is only like on like the peripheral of my comic radar, and then that public enemy album, it's not one of the public enemy albums. 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:38.960 It's a little later for sure. 01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:39.599 Yeah, it's a little later. 01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:54.239 It's it's kind of after they they hit their peak, but I'd I'd probably seen that album cover how many other times scrolling through Spotify or talking to friends about stuff, whatever the case may be, digging through bins somewhere. 01:03:54.239 --> 01:04:04.880 I was just like, oh, this is like a very socially themed kind of making a you know, making a message or or having a message kind of cover that's perfect for public enemy. 01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:07.760 That's right up there, you know, right up their alley, right in their wheelhouse. 01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:15.199 And then don't remember what I was looking at when I saw like somebody say somewhere like, Oh yeah, there's that public enemy cover by Mark Texera. 01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:23.199 And I was like, which public enemy cover is by and then I grabbed a copy of the CD here in town and was lucky enough to find it at a record store. 01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:29.039 I went to like six different record stores, found a CD copy because he was doing a signing like 30 minutes north of me. 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:30.960 And so I went and actually talked to him about it. 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:38.480 Like, took took the chance and went and sat down, and he was such a cool guy, total total character, like total comic book character himself. 01:04:38.480 -->

01:04:43.599 Um, but was a great chat, and he he totally put me on game, was like, yeah, did that for Def Jam. 01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:51.199 They hit me up and they were like, Hey, you do Ghost Rider, so you must be the skeleton guy, like you're Marvel Skeleton guy, right? 01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:56.719 He was like, Well, everybody can probably draw a skeleton, but if you need to draw a skeleton, then yes, I'd like to. 01:04:56.719 --> 01:04:58.719 You draw a skeleton real good, Mark. 01:04:58.719 --> 01:04:59.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:04:59.360 --> 01:04:59.599 Yeah. 01:04:59.599 --> 01:05:09.280 And then he did a flesh and bone uh cover, a bone thugs like solo album, and then somebody I'd never heard of, uh, Passion, he did her album cover. 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:10.559 She's a rapper from the bay. 01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:14.800 You know, can I say real quick, you mentioned that he did the album cover of Flesh and Bone. 01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:24.239 I think it's crazy that you know, the one album that you would think would have a skeleton on it, a flesh and bone, that's not thugs, no. 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:26.320 But the public enemy album, what is this called? 01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:27.760 Uh Muse Sicken Hour. 01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:29.199 That's a hell of a title. 01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:33.119 Muse is a little sick and hour mess age. 01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:35.519 Yeah, it's supposed to be music and our message. 01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:36.239 There you go. 01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:36.719 There you go. 01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:37.119 Okay. 01:05:37.199 --> 01:05:40.000 So a little bit of a roundabout way of getting there. 01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:40.559 Sure. 01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:41.039 Absolutely. 01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:42.400 A little clunky, but I got you. 01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:47.840 But yeah, Bone Thugs in Harmony, solo album, Flesh and Bone, not a single bone painted on the top. 01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:59.519 Zach, what what would you say is your I guess after doing this uh project and after the release of volume two, what would you say is some of your favorite, I guess, like him? 01:05:59.519 --> 01:06:02.320 pop covers drawn by comic artists. 01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:09.360 Do you have a certain affinity for one, or do you have like a new affinity for a certain one after having done volume two? 01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:12.880 There, yeah, definitely a new affinity for that EPMD cover. 01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:23.199 Talking to Bill uh about that one and him like telling the story of like he was at the Def Jam office like late 80s, which is already sick enough. 01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:24.159 Come on, yeah. 01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:25.280 He was there at like prime time. 01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:31.360 He's hanging out with Parrish of EPMD and Parrish is like, I we want you to do this album cover. 01:06:31.360 --> 01:06:38.000 And then talking about what they talked about and what they wanted and then how he was going to visually portray that. 01:06:38.000

--> 01:07:01.599 But then more so once we really started talking about it, he was telling me um and it's part of the interview at the back I I feel really uh really really grateful uh for for Sue, Carlin and um and Bill for giving me some of their time and letting me do this interview where he digs into like he was this kind of like podunk farm boy from New Jersey that moved to New York with these big art dreams. 01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:08.239 He loved drawing he loved painting he goes to school and he just gets wrapped up in 80s New York subculture. 01:07:08.239 --> 01:07:43.039 He's seeing graffiti he's seeing comic book art he's seeing all this stuff it's all blossoming around him right and he tells a really like it's a real brief story but it's a killer story about like he gets off the subway one night and Keith Herring is about to start like doing a piece in the subway and Bill's like I'll be your lookout like do your thing and I was like only in 80s New York bro but like he he dove into like the messaging of that album cover and what EPMD wanted like they're in a swamp they're surrounded by these like FBI you know whatever alphabet boys kind of gang is surrounding them. 01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:53.119 There's these dogs and there's helicopters and there's guns and the guys in EPMD are just kind of standing there kind of b-boy pose like it's just real real hip hop shit. 01:07:53.119 --> 01:08:12.800 And Bill was like I'm this white farm boy from Jersey sitting in the deaf jam office talking about this art for these guys, painting this cover for these guys and I felt a kinship with them because I felt that like that urge and that desire to push back against authority. 01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:19.039 Like seeing the powers that be and how they try to hold certain people back. 01:08:19.039 --> 01:08:28.880 And so he's like I wanted this album cover to to express that to express this urgency and this kind of like simmering rage and this real like fuck you. 01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:49.760 And it he was like it feels like NWA is fuck the police but in a little bit of a different way and I was like man Bill Sinkevich is the shit come on if there's any more reason to like the guy it's like you know master artist and painter and I pushed the fucking you know envelope when it came to comic art and and he's also a huge hip hop head. 01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:51.520 And and there's a lot more in volume two. 01:08:51.520 --> 01:09:35.359 I don't want to like you know spoil everything but you know on top of the interview of Bill Sinkevich you've got a really good write up about Todd McFarland's uh uh connection to Outcast and uh uh the AT Ellions album what could have been which I think people should read on their own I've one of my favorite bits to write in this was I can't wait I know a little bit about that but um okay yeah I that AT Ellions album and you know I think you were the one that put me on to hey there's an a a comic a mini comic book in the album uh linear notes in the and AT aliens and then issue two picks up in the single for Jazuel which I can't find yet because of you I actually went to my record shop uh like a month ago and bought the ATLN CD just for that comic book. 01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:46.079 Yeah there's and there's like two or three different versions of the single so you've got to you gotta find the jewel case one and it's got a it's got a little yellow sticker that says comic book yeah yep yeah I got a few saves on on eBay. 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:52.159 But I I think I I'll go ahead and uh chime in here and say I think you put a spotlight on Chris Bocolo in this zine. 01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:52.640 Okay. 01:09:52.640 --> 01:10:07.439 And seeing his covers for Woo Massacre I will never forget being on I think two dope boys at the time which was my jam when back when like hip hop blogs were like the you know the way to get like that good shit. 01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:11.600 I'll never forget seeing Woo Massacre being posted on Two Dope Boys. 01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:22.720 And I mean I was all the way into comics at the time and I think that might have been one of my first real conscious exposures of like oh Chris Bocciolo and he's doing like what is this art style? 01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:25.920 Why does Method Man it look so dope with like ghost face? 01:10:25.920 --> 01:11:25.199 So to see like that mention in here it like really brings me back man is you know what's funny about that dude I was whenever that is 2009 2010 I was working at Hot Topic worked at Hot Topic for two years dude I was I was again real small town Yuma Arizona I worked at the small and I worked at zoomies footlocker journey hot topic like I was basically yeah doing the rounds basically my rounds when I would go to like Orange Park Mall here it was like those like these four shops absolutely are you about to tell me that continue continue I wonder if you're gonna go where I think you're gonna go with this back when I worked at Hot Topic they still sold music we had records in there we had CDs in there we'd get these big posters for new music releases and bro I remember when that album came out and we had all three covers and now and I I wish I'd have bought one andor all of them because now like tracking down they're not cheap. 01:11:25.279 --> 01:11:28.880 They're not like super super expensive but they're more than I want to pay for a single CD. 01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:32.399 And I just had all three of them right there in my face could have got a discount on them and everything. 01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:37.840 Yeah yeah and and had no idea at the time like obviously I knew they look like comic books. 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:38.159 Sure. 01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:42.319 And I knew at the time like Wu Tang has this kind of affinity for comics. 01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:48.319 I didn't know how deep it went but I was like oh man this is really cool and there's three different covers like that's a cool move. 01:11:48.319

--> 01:11:54.640 I haven't seen this on an album before and they they just sat there on the shelf at Hot Topic and and I never did anything about it. 01:11:54.880 --> 01:12:01.039 Well I I know that Hot Topic is good at get getting you a t-shirt with like every single album cover you could think of. 01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:07.119 And I want to say I remember seeing Hot Topic sell like that Wu Massacre design on a shirt. 01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:13.520 Now I'm gonna have to track down all three because you're right it is I didn't think about that then that these are basically variant covers. 01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:22.800 So cool play on like you know comic book culture meeting you know uh the the Wu Tang so and that felt just that felt unique for the time. 01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:47.680 Yes because now it happens a lot uh oh yeah oh yeah to to shout out our boy Mike Delmundo like the legend has it variant that's not the main cover for the Nas and Primo album that's the variant he did variants for Alfredo too like yep everybody not everybody but a lot of people are doing variant record covers now but I I don't want to say it was the first but it was the first one I noticed was that that Will Massacre doing three different three different covers. 01:12:48.000 --> 01:13:08.399 Zach I got two more questions for you and and then we could wrap up but two important questions right when thinking about you know because you're mentioning like hey the this passion project you put your heart and soul into you were you had the benefit of having a really good support system with Now or Never with Aaron you know motivating you and you know the response from the customers and all of that. 01:13:08.399 --> 01:14:17.439 I I guess as someone who you know obviously works at a comic shop as well what would you say makes for a good self-published comic or indie comic like stand out to a retailer when when a creator walks in you know uh imagine like it's someone trying to you know hey I also did the zine about this thing I'm really passionate of can I sell it here like what what are some advice that you would give to the like that indie creator that's trying to also like you know get their work into a a legit comic shop a respected shop yeah man um that is a good question I would say first and foremost come with the right attitude um shops want to support people do well I I don't want to speak for all shops now or never wants to support independent artists and we make we make a point we make an emphasis to support local artists from like the San Diego area because that's where we are we want to support the people that support us but we've got books in the shop from indie creators in LA New York like we want to have that stuff in there but also the shop only has so much real estate. 01:14:18.159 --> 01:14:27.199 Even with our new expansion that we did in December there's only so much room to put comics so you you got to go in with the right attitude and reasonable expectations. 01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:38.079 If you're a guy that's making your own indie book and you roll into a shop and they say yo well try five copies be ready to do five copies. 01:14:38.079 --> 01:15:02.239 A lot of shops can't just like oh yeah give us 25 copies of this book Mr you know insert name here that nobody knows about I'm I'm fortunate to work in the shop and have the like you said the support system otherwise when I I've sold the I've sold the zine to record stores and I'll go in and I'm like hey man I sell these things for 15 bucks I'll sell it to you for seven basically cost for me. 01:15:02.239 --> 01:15:05.279 I'm not making any money I just want it to be in the record store. 01:15:05.279 --> 01:15:29.119 Yeah good opportunity first guy bought five from me because he was cool next dude bought three from me there's another shop that I'm gonna go hit up soon with with issue two but I would I would never go into the shop and be like hey man buy 10 copies of this like the the the hustle and the grind like that's all there we respect that attitude we respect that energy but you've got to be willing to work with shops because we can't just buy everything. 01:15:29.119 --> 01:15:57.840 Yeah um we we don't go hard on every Marvel book we don't go hard on every image book there's got to be a level of expectation and then the other thing I would say is is quality but don't think about quality as like the quality of your artwork because if you're an amateur if you're getting there like we we understand there's levels to this not everybody's gonna walk in and have a book that looks like you know Daniel Warren Johnson and be like hey can you buy my indie comic what I mean by quality is like the presentation. 01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:24.159 So many people will come in with stuff that is you know the the the cheapest paper at Kinko's and it's stapled together and it's all uneven and it's not folded properly and there's from like the DIY like punk and hardcore stuff there's an element of that that Aaron and I love but it doesn't look great on a shelf it doesn't look great on display somewhere because what we do when we buy these indie books from People Dude is we put them on the new book wall. 01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:36.560 Like when they when they first like if somebody comes in and sells us their book we put it on the new book wall with all that week's new releases on Wednesday and then after a week it goes into our local creator bins or our indie creator bins. 01:16:36.560 --> 01:17:20.079 And indie is not like image or boom or whatever it's like actual direct yeah indie guys um indie creators and so having a level of quality that is that you're proud of and that a shop can be like yes I can put this on a shelf and for a lot of shops that that bar is going to be at different levels but like when I made comics rule everything around me I knew off rip like I want this thing to be perfect bound because I want it to lay flat I don't want it to

be 50 pages that are like bowed at the staples and then you know it's all it it looks janky in a bag and board and I knew what I wanted it to look like. 01:17:20.079 --> 01:17:28.079 I don't have all the design stuff figured out because that's a new world for me but I knew this is the way I want it printed. 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:35.199 I want the cover to be a little bit of a heavier hard stock card stock than the paper so it looks and presents a certain way. 01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:40.319 And that was some of the most immediate feedback was like yo this looks and it feels good. 01:17:40.319 --> 01:17:51.920 And I'm like cool because now in your brain you're gonna read the inside and whether the inside is good or not to to everybody's own subjective opinion you at least feel like it looks good. 01:17:51.920 --> 01:18:20.560 Yeah feels good presentation presentation is so big the right attitude the right kind of quality on presentation and then like figuring out how shops do things coming in and trying to be a part of the community is the biggest thing dude we tell this to everybody like people that try to apply at the shop people who want to do events at the shop we just wish that more people understood we can't just have everybody in off the streets and do a thing. 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:39.680 It's the people that come in and they want to have conversations and they want to support the shop and they want to be around they want to be a part of the San Diego comics community those are the people that we want to give a spotlight to because also again part of our kind of uh routine is we don't just buy these books and slap them on the shelf. 01:18:39.680 --> 01:18:45.039 A lot of times what we'll do is we'll tell these creators hey let's set up a local creator showcase. 01:18:45.039 --> 01:18:46.640 Let's have you do a little signing. 01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:53.039 You sell it yourself to people who come into Now or never on like a new comic book day or a Saturday sell it yourself. 01:18:53.039 --> 01:19:04.479 Make the most money you can selling it directly to people and then when you're done we'll buy copies off of you at a wholesale rate for then us to have for the shop because we don't do consignment because that's messy. 01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:07.680 We don't want to like have anybody's stuff and it gets messed up yada yada yada. 01:19:07.680 --> 01:19:35.439 So going into shops and being aware of like of their ecosystem of how they operate how they get down what they're into what moves for them we don't sell a ton of like indie all ages stuff right we will have a showcase and a signing with somebody who does indie all ages and we will support that book and we'll put it on the shelf but we'll do way better with like some indie horror thing or indie sci-fi because that's just like the demographic at the shop. 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:37.039 We just pull those kind of people in, you know? 01:19:37.039 --> 01:19:43.279 And so I think I think that's

the main thing is is figuring out a shop's ecosystem and being a part of their community. 01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:59.039 You know I heard Jason Aaron on a podcast ages ago talk about like when you pitch to publishers like trying to pay attention to how that publisher puts books out and what their release schedule is like and how do they do one shots versus anthologies versus mini series. 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:07.039 And once you kind of see how a publisher operates and how their ecosystem works, then you know what to pitch them and when to pitch it to them. 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:10.159 And that's I think people should pay attention to that with shops as well. 01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:11.119 Do your homework. 01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:20.479 Yeah I like that presentation do your homework and and to your point about being invested in the community give more than you take uh you know I think there's a certain level of give before you all you know balance there. 01:20:20.479 --> 01:20:21.359 So that's awesome. 01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:23.359 All right Zach, I got one more question for you. 01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:24.319 This is a fun one. 01:20:24.319 --> 01:20:50.079 If you were handed uh the keys to write I don't know a four issue mini series uh about pairing any rap icon whether it be old or new past or present with any comic book character or artist who are you pairing up and and what's the premise and I know I just sprang this up on you I'll give you mine give you some time to think and where my head's at what are you thinking? 01:20:50.079 --> 01:21:10.319 I think there is an opportunity as someone who is a huge Brew Baker Sean Phillips fan and the whole kind of crime noir uh you know like that that whole premise I think there is an opportunity to tell more of those stories um in comic books about rap. 01:21:10.319 --> 01:21:21.279 And I'm specifically thinking of someone like like Freddie Gibbs or like Raekwon who kind of paint themselves as this like larger than life like just something like the nitty gritty crime. 01:21:21.279 --> 01:21:37.199 You know like when you think about Rayquan's first album it is very kind of like mafioso you know like Cuban Lynx, you know, the purple tape all of that I would love to see someone like Ed Rubick or Sean Phillips um you know do their story. 01:21:37.199 --> 01:21:44.479 You know like bring Rayquan's basically storytelling and all of the raps and like the imagery he has bring it to life in comic book form. 01:21:44.479 --> 01:21:52.479 I think there's an opportunity to tell more serious kind of crime noir comic books based off of like rap you know stories and and characters. 01:21:52.479 --> 01:21:58.239 I agree and I'm gonna show you oh the 12 reasons to die yeah Matt Rosenberg I talked to him about it. 01:21:58.399 --> 01:22:36.079 That is right I guess I guess it's been done somebody somebody read your dream journal dude Matt Rosenberg genius no you really do got it all when when you said the the crime stuff I was like oh he's right like and that actually do so that I'll I'll piggyback off that when I interviewed uh Mike Del Mundo for sketched because of course my answer is gonna have Mike like shout out Mike there to me um and I I would love for somebody to put me on game with with more people I I love learning that's that's a big part of the zine is like I don't know it all I'm I'm always trying to like learn new information and and soak it all up. 01:22:36.079 --> 01:22:48.239 I don't think there's anybody that is more there there's two dudes that are the comics and hip hop like comic professionals and I I think that's Sanford Green and Mike Del Mundo. 01:22:49.279 --> 01:22:49.840 That's fair. 01:22:50.159 --> 01:23:09.039 As far as the the stuff that they've worked on and the way that they are connected to hip hop the artists they're connected to and then the books that they make and and the I said this in the in in the write up with sketch that like Mike's hip hop work is comics his comics work is hip hop point blank period. 01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:11.199 And I think you can say the same for Samford Green. 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:36.399 When I talked to Mike I I joked with him that like I think there was there's a cool kind of like comic series you could do where like somebody's trying to go back in time and like fix uh like historical wrongs that have happened in hip hop like when Grandmaster Kaz got his rhyme books cut oh nice and when Riza's uh like studio flooded and like damaged all his recording gear. 01:23:36.399 --> 01:23:41.520 And then I think there's like somebody else who like there was a fire that like damaged a studio. 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:53.439 So you're basically pitching like hip-hop what ifs like what hip hop what if Riza's basement never flooded and we got that was you working on like a on a you got like someone's out entire album got lost. 01:23:54.880 --> 01:24:02.800 Yeah like a whole album and then like the the Wu Tang sound kind of like changes though because you like you lose this material you lose the you know that's good. 01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:15.520 But like that's that's it's I think there's a cool like I don't think it's Doctor Strange like maybe it's maybe it's Miles and Doctor Strange or somebody like needs to like jump back in time and like fix these things. 01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:38.159 But I think about it right now what I think I would like and you you you did this to my brain with the the crime thing the brewbreaker and Phillips I want to see a ninja turtle story that is ninja turtles and Wu Tang clan I didn't my brain just exploded I didn't even know that was a possible combination. 01:24:38.399 --> 01:24:41.199 It's it's right there bro it's it is truly right there. 01:24:41.359 --> 01:24:52.640 Once again it turtles and Wu Tang clan going up against the foot illustrated by Mike Del Mundo written by me and Mike Del Mundo. 01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:59.760 Well now I'm like shit I kind of you know I I

Mike Del Mundo obviously that's the man right there. 01:24:59.760 --> 01:25:07.439 Now I'm like I don't think I've ever seen Chris Botcholo draw the TMNT now I really want to see that he's drawing the Wu Tang apparently yeah damn good answer. 01:25:07.439 --> 01:25:35.199 Okay real quick Zach one last lightning round question that just came to mind uh let's let's end it on another comic book high note what is your favorite comic book to recommend to people at now or never like is there a sleeper comic book title that you feel like a not enough people are reading let's end it that way oh man gotta be you want it to be like a sleeper thing that people aren't reading or think wherever your mind goes yeah um because the one that I sell the most of dude is Murder Falcon. 01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:43.439 I yeah beautiful comic incredible book I I push Murder Falcon and and Daniel Johnson stuff on people a lot. 01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:54.640 I love and we're getting a lot more of this nowadays um you you and I could have a whole other conversation about this but people are so much more receptive to suggestions and people are looking for suggestions. 01:25:54.880 --> 01:26:34.399 I think that's the beauty of of the comic shop culture is that it's fun to go in and you know overhear a conversation or be recommended some especially when you build a good rapport with the staff or you know the the the person running the shop you know and they start to get to know your taste big shout out to my old Amber Super Comic Shop countergirl that's how it used to be I used to be going there and she'd be like I think you would fuck with this book because I know you like XYZ yeah so no and and that's that's the name of the game and we we have over 300 subscribers and and that's that's our our bread and butter like especially when somebody's got something that we that's coming out that we really love. 01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:39.520 So I will say this I I push DWJ and Murder Falcon a lot. 01:26:39.520 --> 01:26:54.319 Murder Falcon is probably one of my favorite books if not my like top tier favorite book of the last you know 10 years or so but I think the the sleeper book that I try to throw people on a lot is a Tradmore book. 01:26:54.319 --> 01:27:51.039 It is uh written by a gentleman whose name I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing this right it's his name is Alish Cott A-L-E-S-K-O-T um he did some stuff for Marvel back in the day he did this image series called Zero that was like an anthology spy series where each each issue was illustrated by somebody different and Tradmore worked with him on that too but Ailish and Trad teamed up I think just before Silver Surfer Black or just after I'm not sure the timeline and they did a book called The New World and it is it gets lost in the in the trad like once once he did Silver Surfer Black and then Doctor Strange Fall Sunrise like people people know those people know Luther Strode new new world slips under the radar dude and it's out

of print from image right now so if you guys are listening to this go track one down on the secondary market because you're not going to be able to get it from your shop unless they already have it on the shelf. 01:27:51.039 --> 01:28:01.520 The new world is Romeo and Juliet in a dystopian America where we've become a surveillance state that's obsessed With reality TV. 01:28:01.520 --> 01:28:04.000 So it's like right now. 01:28:04.640 --> 01:28:07.039 I was about to say, Zach, I I asked for a comic recommendation. 01:28:07.039 --> 01:28:08.640 I didn't want to like watch the news. 01:28:08.960 --> 01:28:12.000 Yeah, I didn't even give you like a biography of America. 01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.000 But no, man. 01:28:14.000 --> 01:28:42.720 And it is it's it's funny, it's sweet, it's got a ton of heart, it's got some epic action, and it's got Tradmore, like kind of kind of just after Legacy of Luther Strode, where he's he's pushing the boundaries and he's he's starting to get a little more bendy with it and a little more loose with proportions and stuff, but he hasn't gone full like Silver Surfer Black, Doctor Strange, False Sunrise. 01:28:42.720 --> 01:28:43.119 Yeah, yeah. 01:28:43.119 --> 01:28:47.840 And the the main character is a guy named Kirby who is straight edge. 01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:48.880 He's a hacker. 01:28:48.880 --> 01:29:03.039 He falls in love with a young woman whose name I can't remember right now, but she is a police officer that participates in this like reality TV thing where she busts, you know, bad guys doing crime, and then viewers vote if she's gonna kill him or not. 01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:03.600 Oh wow. 01:29:03.600 --> 01:29:12.319 And and she's like kind of bucking against the system, they meet, and it becomes this whole like big crazy adventure um with Trad Moore drawing his ass off. 01:29:12.319 --> 01:29:16.079 And uh, so so go find the new world if you if you can find it somewhere. 01:29:16.319 --> 01:29:18.159 Yo, uh, it's on my list now. 01:29:18.159 --> 01:29:19.680 Thank you for putting me on the game. 01:29:19.680 --> 01:29:23.520 I think with that, Zach, this has been fantastic, ladies and gents. 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:30.239 This is the short box podcast, and we just finished talking to Zach Norris about a whole lot of hip hop, a whole lot of comic books. 01:29:30.239 --> 01:29:34.479 We talked about his original Zine Cream, Comics Rule, everything around me. 01:29:34.479 --> 01:29:40.720 Like I said, I'll have links to the digital version of volume one, uh, which you can buy on Gumroad. 01:29:40.720 --> 01:29:50.720 And then uh you wanna go ahead and stay uh um uh in tune with what Zach's going on, uh, so that way whenever he announces a volume two digitally available, you can get that too. 01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:56.560 Or if you're in the San Diego area, if you're close to Now or Never Comics, go in there, uh see how amazing the shop is for yourself. 01:29:56.560 --> 01:30:01.600 Go pick up a copy of volume two in person, go pick up a copy of volume one while you're at it. 01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:07.520 Um yeah, I'm gonna have links to uh uh Zach's social media so that way you can stay up to date with what he's got going on. 01:30:07.520 --> 01:30:10.079 And uh yeah, Zach, this has been great. 01:30:10.079 --> 01:30:16.960 Um, probably won't be the last because I feel like I got a hundred more questions about just you running the shop and then obviously some more hip-hop stuff. 01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:18.159 But this was awesome, man. 01:30:18.159 --> 01:30:24.159 Best of luck with what you got going on with cream, like it's special, it's needed, and I'm glad uh glad we had to talk about it. 01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:24.880 No, man. 01:30:24.880 --> 01:30:26.079 Thank thank you for having me. 01:30:26.079 --> 01:30:29.119 You you run a great uh ship over here, you got a great show. 01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:37.760 You've talked to some really epic guests, so I am humbled and uh and honored to be a part of the the short box nation, the short box guest uh roster running. 01:30:37.760 --> 01:30:40.560 So thank you very much, man. 01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:42.319 Shout out now or never comics. 01:30:42.319 --> 01:30:44.640 Uh comics roll everything around me. 01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:45.840 There we go. 01:30:45.840 --> 01:30:46.960 Hell yeah. 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:52.880 Hey yo, run it back. 01:30:52.880 --> 01:30:55.199 Which earliest musical memory? 01:30:55.199 --> 01:30:58.079 Um, I think MC Hammer, dude. 01:30:58.079 --> 01:30:59.119 Can't touch this. 01:30:59.119 --> 01:31:05.359 Um my parents uh were were young. 01:31:05.359 --> 01:31:07.760 Um they had me when they were 22. 01:31:07.760 --> 01:31:09.359 They were young, but they were not hip. 01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:19.920 Uh my mom was very much just like top 40 radio, and dad was very much just like kind of hair metal, southern stuff, country guy. 01:31:19.920 --> 01:31:25.600 And so a lot of the music I was exposed to was either it was straight from the radio or straight from TV. 01:31:25.600 --> 01:31:33.600 And when uh like when TRL and stuff like that started cracking off, that was basically my yeah, like gateway drug. 01:31:33.600 --> 01:31:34.560 That was the gateway drug. 01:31:34.560 --> 01:31:43.520 I'm the oldest of three brothers, I didn't have anybody putting me on game at at this point, and so it was really just like oh, these music videos are cool. 01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:44.319 This is what I like. 01:31:44.319 --> 01:31:55.039 Like probably the first music I loved was uh I know the first CD I ever asked my parents for was Puff Daddy and the Bad Boy Family, No Way Out. 01:31:55.039 --> 01:31:56.159 Good album, by the way. 01:31:56.159 --> 01:31:58.479 You know, I know it's like a little controversial now. 01:31:58.479 --> 01:32:01.600 It's crazy to say that now, but it's got some hit-ons on right. 01:32:01.600 --> 01:32:04.800 Um some some good good songs on there. 01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:11.199 And the first CD they ever bought me was Hammer Don't Hurt Em, which had Can Touch This on it. 01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:22.239 And I I talk about that in the first issue of the zine, but I asked them to get me Puff Daddy and the Bad Boy uh family, and then the very next CD I bought, my own money, my own allowance. 01:32:22.239 --> 01:32:26.239 I saw the video for Intergalactic and I was like, yo, what the fuck is this? 01:32:26.239 --> 01:32:28.640 Like this is amazing video at that time. 01:32:28.640 --> 01:32:30.000 Melting my brain out of my ears.