When You Know the Relationship Tools and Still Lose Your Shit - Chris & Christopher의 전체 녹취록

be like a six-hour date. 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:38.719 Wow. 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.039 And um, yeah, it could have gone on for longer, but it was he wanted it. 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.120 He asked me back to his house and no that night. 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.759 So I I was definitely feeling like, oh, this is this is something. 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:56.000 This has got legs. 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:57.680 Yeah, beautiful. 00:02:57.840 --> 00:02:59.120 Thanks, Christopher. 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.000 Yeah, yeah, we were really simpatico from the get-go. 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.520 Um, and and there's all these doubts. 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:22.479 I mean, it had been coming out of almost 10 years of being relatively single and in a kind of polyamory sort of way, and never really feeling chosen or claimed per se, but also never doing that either. 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:24.719 And so this was really different from the beginning. 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:37.680 But for me, what really was like, whoa, was I have been, I've done like clash with the masculine since I was two, right? 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:39.039 Since I learned how to say no. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:45.039 Me and my dad would clash, and it was one of the what's one of the ways that we know each other and even love each other. 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:53.199 And so I always was met fire with fire, fire with fire, and we certainly can get fiery with each other. 00:03:53.360 --> 00:04:02.719 But in the beginning, when I would fire, he would say things like, Hey, it doesn't feel like you're on my team right now, aren't we on the same team? 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.439 And I exactly, exactly. 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:14.240 I couldn't, I just couldn't believe the way that he could call me into a better or more calm version of myself. 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.759 Wow and that was that meant so much to me. 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.079 In addition, his daughter. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:25.519 So um, when we met, his daughter was five, she's 15 now, so we've been together a while. 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:33.759 And the way that he parented her, again, quite unlike the way I was parented, just so gentle, so emotionally attuned. 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:41.439 I was like, oh, this man is different, different from any man I've ever met or been this close to. 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:53.120 And that combined with the just really like easeful way that we could just like drop our shoulders and let our bellies out from the get-go, was like, okay, this this matters. 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:53.759 Wow. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:05:01.439 We've certainly had some big riffs and bumps along the way, but something about just the those beginning times. 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:08.720 Um, we've always we've never really let go of that thread, even as we've deepened and now know the the uglier sides of each other. 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.839 That makes you so perfectly imperfect in love. 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:14.560 Yes. 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:15.360 Yeah. 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:16.560 Awesome. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.800 Um, well, thank you for sharing that. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:24.800 And I would love to hear what had you say yes to be willing to have this conversation with me. 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.279 Well, I can start there because I've known you for so long. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:36.560 And this topic, the topics of relationship and repair are just they're the world that I swim in. 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.639 Like my my vocation is also my love of what I do in my life. 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:45.360 I I do these, I talk about this stuff paid and unpaid and all over the place. 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.279 So if it's about sex, relationship, or repair, I'm in. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.480 So it's an easy, just an easy, easy yes. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:53.600 Awesome. 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:54.240 Thank you. 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:55.839 Yeah, and our parallel paths. 00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.160 Um, you said I was a a RLT relational life therapy therapist. 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.439 I'm an RLT coach. 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:08.560 I'm not a actual licensed therapist, but yeah, I am certified in that modality, and that's also a parallel path that you're on. 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:11.360 So yeah, it's like, yeah, let's talk. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:12.480 Let's talk. 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:14.639 How about for you, Christopher? 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:23.519 I've been a yes to almost everything that you've thrown my way. 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:26.000 Um baby. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.560 It just feels like this is what we do. 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:38.079 Uh I mean, we've been working on all aspects of our relationship, and this just sort of feels like, oh, this is just the next thing that we're getting up to this week. 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:41.120 Um yeah, it just feels natural. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:42.720 Yeah, awesome. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.199 Yeah, and talk to me a little bit about the basics of your relationship. 00:06:49.680 --> 00:07:09.120 Well, we're both named Chris, we're both left-handed, we're both the oldest sibling, so um we have five tenants that I think uh four of which were in my profile when we first were dating. 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.240 She found my profile on Meet Mindful. 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:20.560 Um and those have sort of been the guide, guide, um the guiding light for us. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:28.319 And um, we sort of remind ourselves frequently, like, oh yeah, there's this part and this part and this part. 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:38.959 Um playfulness, they are playfulness, affection, playfulness, affection, equanimity, curiosity, and truth. 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:44.720 And so when we've got all five of those going at once, it's really good. 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:46.399 Nice. 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:47.040 I love that. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:57.439 Yeah, we've been living that not like

every day, all day, but like it came, it was they were his words, and I was and I said, I want I want these to be our core values. 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:02.240 And I just picked them from his thing because they really were the things that struck me in reading them. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.959 It's most of it, most well anyway. 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:14.079 Um, and I I remember back like we were together maybe four or five months, and I wrote them on the bathroom mirror, and they were up there for a while, and they're not up there anymore. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:22.240 But I think that again, those are some of the threads that we've been pulling, and so we're married, we've been together now going on to not not quite 10 years. 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:25.279 In November it'll be 10, so nine and a half-ish years. 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.279 We'll be married for six in August. 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.000 We got married in the middle of the pandemic. 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.039 Our wedding went from 125 to 8. 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:34.320 Whoa. 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:41.440 But we stayed because we really were we were committed to getting married on 8, 8, 20, 20, infinity. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.440 So oh awesome. 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:44.399 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:45.120 Uh-huh. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:47.120 And then you have one kiddo. 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:48.159 Yep. 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.480 And how how old did you say she is? 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:51.440 15. 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:52.240 15. 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:52.879 Okay. 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:54.879 Cool. 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:55.840 Yeah. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:03.360 And my profile, I said that I have this young one, and I'm it's a package deal. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:22.000 And um I was always wanting to have somebody I could share my life with, somebody that I could have all this juiciness that we get to share, but that they would at least be respectful and kind to my daughter, and she has well exceeded that. 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:32.159 Um it's an amazing relationship, and I feel blessed that she both of them get to have each other. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:32.799 Yeah. 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:34.480 It's really, it's really amazing. 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:35.519 Yeah. 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.120 And I know Chris and I have talked about this before. 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:52.080 Um what a what a different world it would have been to have a parent or a step parent who has relational skills or you know, empowered sexuality as a template and as a as a role model. 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:57.279 So I'm I'm just um grateful that she's having that experience. 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:00.960 Counterfeit I'm grateful for the experience too, right? 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:02.720 Uh it softened me over time. 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:14.799 It's helped me, it does, it still helps me in the challenges of it to remember like kindness and slowness and like to come down and

to not have such high expectations all the time. 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:19.759 You know, she's a kid, and it's really it's helped me parent my inner child a little bit too. 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:22.879 Like, gosh, because I talk to myself like that too, sometimes, you know. 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:29.360 So very not only healing, but just ri enriching our our lives, enriching our love. 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:30.000 So yeah. 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:31.919 Awesome. 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:32.879 All right. 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:37.279 Well, now we're moving into the the the juicy meaty bit. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:52.080 And you know, the the podcast is called Perfectly Imperfect, which is coming from that place of um this concept called generative conflict, meaning being able to move through conflict in a way that generates more trust and more connection. 00:10:52.320 --> 00:11:01.360 And so I want to ask when y'all think about any moments of rupture that you've been able to ultimately repair to the other side, what comes to mind for you? 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.360 Oh the thing that just popped into my head. 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:13.440 Um, we got into one of the worst, maybe the worst argument of our relationship the day before I proposed to her. 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:21.519 We were cruising around Tuscany, and I think we'd had at least a bottle of wine, so maybe that had something to do with it. 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:23.360 Probably. 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:32.960 And as typical, like she drives and I navigate, and we just couldn't get on the same page about it, and ended up getting out of the car and like rah rah rah. 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.759 And then 24 hours later, we were like engaged. 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:39.279 It was crazy. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:41.600 So we repair quickly. 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:47.360 Yeah, and of course, you didn't know, Chris, that you were gonna be being proposed to the next day. 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.919 I had an inkling, I didn't know, yeah, right. 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:50.799 I didn't know. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:12:00.399 We I had an inkling that it was gonna happen at some point on this three-week Italy adventure that we were on, and I and you had I think an idea that it would happen. 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.399 I had never been to Italy, so I didn't know where I was gonna propose. 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:05.840 It's not like I could have planned it. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:06.879 I just had to wait. 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:12.960 And where we were those couple of days, I didn't think it could have gotten any beautiful more beautiful. 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:14.799 And it was like, this is the place. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.159 This is the day. 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:17.120 Wow. 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:22.799 So wow, I love that one of your worst fights happened the day before. 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:23.919 That's amazing. 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.159 I almost was wondering if it was a test. 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.000 And gosh, I can't even remember how we were paired back then because it was a while ago. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:34.720 And I think our skills, I mean, I know our skills have way up-leveled since then. 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:35.279 Right. 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:41.279 But it but it wasn't a sweep under the rug, it was like a turning towards and go, hey, what happened last night? 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:42.720 Like that's actually not okay. 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.879 And there was I'm sorry's on both sides. 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:46.879 There was apologies in in that case. 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:48.159 Yeah. 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:48.879 Yeah. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:57.039 And for me, I I just see our relationship as the what am I trying to say? 00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.759 It's a life, it's a lifelong practice. 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.080 We will continually come into disharmony and repair. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:12.080 And it's it, we've we've done it ever since I was thinking about these last few days, like, oh, right, it happened here, it happened here, it happened here. 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:23.519 Even as even in the little ways where we're with uh Kelsey, his daughter, and I'm talking, and then he does an interruption and I give him a look and then he pulls back, or vice versa, right? 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:29.120 Like there's a sometimes it's just like that moment of like, oh yeah, right, I got myself here. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:37.200 So um, you know, Terry, Terry Real, our mentor, talks about relational mindfulness, and that's it just comes down, I think, to that. 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:37.679 Yeah. 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:40.960 And what is what does a relational mindfulness mean to you? 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:47.840 It means actually slowing down and remembering the thing that he was saying in the beginning of our relationship. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:49.759 Like, hey, we're on the same team. 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.519 And I want to, I want a peaceful night. 00:13:53.600 --> 00:14:01.679 Like it, I'm a I'm good at fighting and really like getting hot and saying really mean things. 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:07.279 And that doesn't that does not lead to the night that I actually really want to have. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:16.080 So calming down, taking a moment, taking a beat, a breath, or even a just a moment away out of the room helps me remember. 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:25.440 If I get humble, this can we can actually go get through this because we can meet each other. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:39.440 Um but if I stay righteous and I'm really can be really strong there, then I'm gonna go to bed disconnected and with my lips pursed, you know, not feeling good. 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:40.399 Yeah. 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:48.960 So you you're acknowledging that you can get hot, you can get intense, and you can get righteous and kind of like dig your heels in. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:56.480 I'm curious when

Chris does that, Christopher, what uh what's your response to that, or what are your options? 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:08.159 Well, first I'll say that the the triggers or the things that you know come up for me were there well before her. 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:33.200 These are old stories, old patterns, and and here's the opportunity to visit it again with somebody, you know, and um I think just sort of being able to see it from that high, high level, uh, takes some of the heat out of it, you know, not making it about her so much as like uh, you know, I need to see it from a certain way. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.639 And and then we can start working at like the details of what's really going on. 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:58.879 Um you're saying like sometimes when Chris is getting in kind of like a expressing loudly or intensely, you are able to slow down enough to remember like the trigger that I'm experiencing in myself is actually coming from my history. 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:00.480 Is that what you're saying? 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:01.919 Sometimes, yeah. 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:05.200 I would I would like to do that more. 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:12.399 Um, but I can be reactive and um you know, fire meets fire. 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:19.919 Again, both both Chris, both oldest sibling, we know how to like no one wants to give an inch. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:36.639 Um but I think over the almost 10 years now, we've learned that um there's just no point in sort of like dwelling in that hot space for too long. 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:45.279 I mean, we we will back away, take some time to sort of calm down, get a little bit of perspective on what's going on. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.279 And that's when for me I'm able to sort of go, oh, this again. 00:16:50.320 --> 00:17:08.960 Um but then also be able to come back and ask for what I need or what I've seen in a way that is more about building a bridge versus you know, trying to just bolster some opinion, you know, go over here and start scripting and then come back and you. 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:18.640 It's more like I've always been more interested in like how do we make this thing work rather than being right all the time. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.079 Um so yeah. 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:27.680 And when you say back away, what what would that look like if I was like a fly on the wall? 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:34.160 When you say, you know, back away and take some time to be able to come back, what does that look like for you specifically? 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:39.359 Um I loved I sometimes in the middle of an argument, I'll just get up. 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:49.440 Um it's not like I get up and I walk out of the room and slam the door, but I'll I'll get up and I'll walk into the bathroom and I'll jump in the shower and take a shower. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:56.880 Um I there's just something so calming and and so centering and grounding for me to just go jump in the water. 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.680 If we had a pool, I would go jump in the pool. 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.160 Um yeah. 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.200 So just taking a little space. 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:10.480 Um, I think a younger one of me could have taken a week. 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:13.200 Um, I I can't do that anymore. 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:18.960 There's that's just sort of seems so far behind me. 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:24.960 Now it's like I need five minutes, I need half an hour, maybe an hour. 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:34.240 And then our agreement now is like if you're gonna if you're gonna step out for more than 20 minutes, you've got to come back and say, look, I need more time. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:38.240 Um, I will come back and check in on a certain time. 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:39.680 So there's no ghosting. 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:43.359 Um, but I think taking the time is really important. 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:44.960 Yeah. 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:52.480 And so for for you, Chris, when you see Christopher take space like that, what what happens for you? 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:59.759 Usually, I mean it's it takes space is a nice way to say it because a lot of times it's it's wall-off and and withdraw. 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.480 And so my first reaction is to just get hotter. 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:05.039 Okay. 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.799 Where the fuck are you going? 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:08.160 Uh-huh. 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:16.400 And then my and then because we've been doing this for as long as we have, yeah, and I've re- I've learned that chase doesn't work there. 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:19.920 It's sure it's tempting though, isn't it? 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.839 It is, it is, especially if I want to be barking, you know. 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.000 And furthermore, you know. 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:32.160 In the shower, it gets really loud though, like when you so I don't do that anymore. 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.559 I actually take that as my cue. 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:35.680 Right. 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:39.920 Okay, this is my moment to usually pop off for a few minutes. 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:40.880 I usually do. 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:46.000 I if I'm really being honest, I can get even more righteous for a few minutes. 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.799 And then that, and then I wear that out. 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:55.200 And then I'm like, okay, how do I actually remember what it is that I that we're doing? 00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:09.839 Remember love essentially, or you know, remember that I want to get down to the place where I actually could possibly be heard if I'm the one that's needing to be hurt, or I could possibly actually hear him if he's the one. 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:17.440 Or, you know, for me, given that I do get hot and then I say a little, you know, kind of thing, it's up to me to apologize. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.799 Um when I'm in my flair, it's wild. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:23.680 I mean, I teach people this all

the time, every day. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.720 And I'm like, there's something I'm supposed to do, but I don't know it is. 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:28.240 Like, what am I supposed to do here? 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:29.839 You know, and I can't even find it. 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:35.839 So when I'm there, I know that I actually that that break is such an intelligent thing, right? 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:45.200 Um, for him to leave is the most intelligent thing for us to do because it diffuses what could be more and it helps us come back quicker. 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:46.720 Yeah. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:54.160 So when I said take space, you said or withdraw or wall off, uh wall off. 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.160 Tell me what is the distinction, what's the difference between those two? 00:20:58.240 --> 00:20:59.440 What do you see in those? 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:12.160 Well, you know, the the the way to do it responsibly is I'm I can't trust myself right now, I've got to go, or this isn't working, I need to go, I'll be back. 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:15.119 And those words are not often said. 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:23.200 Um, even the gesture, because we've we have the gesture, the timeout gesture in place, that often isn't done either. 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:31.680 But so the the the I think proper way to do it is like claiming that responsibility of I'm leaving. 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:38.079 But when we're activated like that, I think the access to those words or even that gesture can be kind of hard. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:38.480 Yeah. 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.519 And so I think that's a good thing. 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.480 Yeah, I was like, I've never seen that gesture before. 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.640 Remember, I was like, this is making it tea with your hand. 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.480 That's that's what that was. 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:50.880 Okay. 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:53.359 I know, I know. 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:59.759 I can't, I need the gesture because I I it's in case I'm incapable of saying in in serve. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.160 Moments like if I'm just a little flared, I can say it. 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:03.279 Like, I need a break. 00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:09.440 Yeah, but if I'm really flared, I I don't know that anything out of my mouth is going to be a great thing. 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.599 So a gesture works for me. 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:24.799 And and because we are as secure as we are, and it's like when when one of us goes, I don't actually usually go, but when he goes, I know I don't have the devastation of like, oh my God, is he never coming back? 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:28.480 So if it's a little messy, I'm actually okay with it. 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:36.960 Yeah, I mean, that's definitely a useful skill, is to be able to say, I love you. 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:38.319 I'm gonna take some space. 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:39.680 I'm gonna come back. 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:48.400 And that really only works

if you're regulated enough or in your wise enough body to be able to say that those quite responsible words. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:54.240 And I think that the tricky part is to be able to identify it right before you get to that point. 00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:04.480 Um so I'm curious, what are the I know that y'all are very connected to your body and your somatic information in your body. 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:10.240 Uh, what are some things that you notice in your body when you're heading towards that that point of no return? 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:18.799 Um, I can feel this core of heat rising up through me. 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:24.319 And then I feel it on on the on in my face, on my skin. 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:31.839 Um, and it's just this cauldron of hot lava through my center. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.400 Um that's at the extreme. 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.880 Um but uh we were talking about this last week. 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:44.079 I I kind of like tapped into where that came from as a child. 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:50.720 There was a moment where my mom left my dad and he was in my life and then he suddenly wasn't. 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:52.880 And I was pissed. 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:59.440 Um I I went on a rampage as like a little four-year-old. 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.920 And when I remembered, like, oh, I was I was thinking, when was the first time I felt like that, that quality of that anger? 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.799 And I was able to in in that moment track it all the way back to that. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:23.039 And it sort of makes it a lot easier to sort of deal with that sort of anger now, because it isn't just this sort of thing that just floats around. 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:42.480 There's a story, and and then now because it's that old, I can I can be the older, wiser, more gentle, kind one that talks to the younger, wounded one, and and having that connection and that dialogue is so different from just I don't know why I fly off the handle all the time. 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.240 I don't know why I'm so angry, da da da. 00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:53.680 Sort of yeah, I that's so cool that you can track that back somatically, like to a specific incident. 00:24:53.759 --> 00:25:03.279 Because when you first came on, you're like, well, one of the things I do is I remember that this is not this case the reaction I'm having came before Chris. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:10.079 And I there was a part of me that was like a little bit like not like I didn't believe you, but I was like in a little slight disbelief. 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:20.880 But that makes more sense to me if you have like an anchoring story connected to that feeling that can help you remember that that was actually something from when you were little and four. 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.359 Um, and and you talked about you know talking to the inner one, and I'm curious, what does that process look like for you? 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:34.880 There it in

the moment, there's like a recognition of okay, we're here again. 00:25:35.440 --> 00:26:06.799 Uh, there's a chance to sort of look at this, and and now there is this new way of looking at it, and it's really it's just go it's saying to myself there's a little guy in there, and and then there's me right now, and he needs something, or he's looking for something that he didn't get or that he needs, and I'm the one that can give it to him. 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:08.480 I'm the only one who can. 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:21.200 And and it's not like really like a dialogue, like I'm just words flowing back and forth, but it's just sort of this just understanding and knowing that there is this little guy right here, right now, in the room with me. 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:41.599 And um this it it just kicks in something for me that's like okay, well, I have to step into a new role, and that just reorients everything and it puts everything back into perspective like how are we gonna get to the repair now? 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:54.079 Because I'm doing my work, and you know, if I've done my work, then I can come back and then we can talk about the specifics of what's going on, but I'm not coming in with all this other baggage. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.920 These old stories, these old scripts. 00:26:58.240 --> 00:26:58.640 Mm-hmm. 00:26:58.960 --> 00:26:59.599 Yeah. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:03.039 So powerful. 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:14.319 And I'm curious for you, Chris, when you have gotten to the point where you recognize it's time for you to go take care of yourself. 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:18.240 What what are some of the options or choices you make for yourself? 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:29.039 So for me, I'm still trying to find if there's an on-ramp, because to me, it's instantaneous and I'm there. 00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.400 And it could be just as instantaneous that I'm over it. 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:35.200 Like that was sort of the way that it worked in my family. 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.720 It would be like, rah, what are you talking about? 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.480 You know, it would be really well and hide. 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:49.839 And so it it's it can go so fast, but I have a really great personification. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.240 In fact, if I would have thought of it, I would show you my little picture. 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:58.079 I have a picture of me, hands on my hips and super like punk rock at like 10, 11. 00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:01.599 And that's the image of that one of me. 00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:08.480 And it's like when she's here, that's where I when I start to get fuzzy, like I'm supposed to do something, but I don't know what it is. 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:11.759 And then I'm like, fuck that, you know. 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:27.920 So when when because I have that personification and I can feel, oh, she's here, that's when I know, like, okay, things are gonna get hot, hot, stay hot and fast if I don't remind myself

this is okay. 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:32.799 This this is you love this person, and they're not out to get you, and you don't need to win. 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.160 So they're not out to get you. 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:42.480 You love this person, and there's actually no such thing as winning, right? 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.839 Like if I win and he loses, I we lose. 00:28:46.079 --> 00:29:03.359 So you know, she doesn't really know that so much yet, but I just, you know, I I I keep trying to to show her and to then also spend less time in that that feeling, that per particular reactivity. 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:16.079 Um and to come if I go up really quick and then come down really quick to remember the apology there, you know, oh, I just did a thing or the acknowledgement of it, like to say, I I'm on to myself here. 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:37.839 I know I just did a thing, which can really help because sometimes if I I'm a really fast processor, so I do that and then I come down and I'm like, Yeah, what was I all I needed to do is a little off-gassing, not realizing, oh, you know, the sense of the sensitive being over here is left awake, and it's not so easy for him to let go once I drop the throw the dart. 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.759 You're the spewer and I'm the chewer. 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:45.680 You I have to like it, takes me a while to process it, and I have to set it up. 00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:47.119 I think just now. 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.440 Oh no, I no, I did not come up with that. 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.279 Okay, that's not mine, that's borrowed. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.799 Okay, I didn't heard it. 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:04.240 Uh, have y'all heard of the book called The Five Apology Languages? 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.119 No. 00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.400 Uh it's the same author. 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.359 I forgot the author's name of the five love languages. 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:21.440 And I'm always really fascinated because I I do think that people, each person needs to hear an apology in a different way. 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:30.319 So, for example, some people really like the word forgiving, or some people really like I'm sorry, or some people like I take accountability. 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:40.880 And I'm curious if y'all have a sense of what what works, what what do you know works for your partner, or what do you know really works for you in the in the realm of apology languages? 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:45.519 We were talking about this last night. 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:46.960 You want to say it? 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:54.160 So uh I'll bring it into a little into a moment. 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.599 Our last kind of rupture that we had, um, that's worth noting, I guess. 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:07.200 So we were we were in a conversation that where I wasn't feeling the coherence. 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.640 And so for me, that's my trigger. 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:22.480 Like my one of my triggers

for going out or feeling like I need an apology or I need repair is if I feel like we've made a plan, we're gonna do something, and then he doesn't follow through and doesn't tell me that he's not following through. 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.920 So I start to feel a little like truntrusting. 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.599 So that had happened. 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.240 Something it was a moment where I had I had wanted some follow through that hadn't happened. 00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.319 And so then I threw a dart. 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:38.079 Well, I can't trust you, and I don't even know if I want to do this thing. 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:40.720 Not like the marriage, but this thing. 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:42.079 Yeah, okay, that's what you said. 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.119 I don't trust you. 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.119 Yeah, yeah, I don't trust you. 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:46.400 I don't trust you here. 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:54.400 And in this moment, he wasn't there to say, Oh, this isn't about me, or whatever he was like, or this isn't about this moment. 00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:59.680 He got he got angry and he's like, You need to apologize. 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:01.920 And I was like, Ah, for what? 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.279 You didn't, blah, blah, blah. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:08.720 So then he goes into the other room, and then this distance is taken. 00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:13.920 I come down, I go in, and I'm like, I'm really sorry, that was really uncalled for. 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.680 I didn't mean it. 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.440 I want to do this with you. 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:19.680 I just want to feel safe doing it. 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.279 And it was a little opening, but it wasn't all of it. 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:31.200 And we spent the day, rest of the day, a little bit, we were doing things together, but not quite connected. 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:35.440 And I would I would reach in a little bit and not get it, not get too much. 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:47.119 And I actually went out that night with somebody else, and I came back home, and he was, and then by then, actually, something happened in the middle where I think he got even madder at me, like in the absence of making that up. 00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:01.920 But like when I came home, he was sort of still like and I just came in and I just leaned in and I was like loving on him and appreciating him, and like really wanting to show him like I'm here and I want to show up for this. 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:06.160 And I don't know, it was like maybe five minutes of that or something. 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.119 So this has been like a kind of a day's worth. 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:15.920 And then it and then it broke, and then he came and then he found and then he found me, and he were we, you know, we we found each other. 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:17.599 And need to be wind and dined. 00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:18.960 And that's what we came up with. 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:20.960 He needs to be wind and dined. 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:24.720 Yeah. 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:33.680 I I grew up with a my mother was bipolar, and so I didn't always trust, you know, where the line was. 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:35.440 I mean, it could flip-flop it. 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:40.640 So I'm always looking for and wanting consistency. 00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:47.440 And you know, it's like where she was just saying, where they can just turn, she can turn on a dime, and like it's all good. 00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:51.519 Um, I'm like, not yet, not for me. 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.960 Like, I need to see, I need to see some more consistency. 00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:02.559 I need to know that you know it's gonna take more than just one little apology after a big thing for me to trust it. 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:07.039 So yeah, I'm I was saying, well, you need to whine and dine me. 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:08.159 Uh-huh. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:16.480 And and whining, dining, I'm imagine part of as a is a metaphor, but what is whining and dining look like for you? 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:29.440 Um I like physical touch and clothes and um spending time on the couch together. 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:38.400 Um It's maybe saying sorry two or three times. 00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:55.039 Uh saying first the thing that I said was wrong, but uh as as I start to trust it more, it's more like what really matters is us. 00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:12.559 What what we have, what we're working on, what we're working towards, being reminded of that and and speaking to that rather than going down into but you you said this and you said that. 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.280 It's it's more like what are we doing here? 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:20.159 What are we you know, why are we on this ride together? 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:21.760 Remind me. 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:23.039 Yeah. 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.800 Remind me where we're in this, and then then I can trust it. 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:27.280 Yeah. 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.599 So it's not, I mean, that makes so much sense. 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:37.840 If if the the harm was quick and big, and then the sorry was like quick and like one thing. 00:35:37.920 --> 00:36:02.559 I uh it makes sense to me that what I think I'm hearing you say is that you need a little bit more time and consistency of uh of the softness and the opening and the acknowledging of the thing and being in that that space of not only acknowledging that it was wrong and apologizing, but also reminding you both the bigger picture of of like like the extension of the bridge of like we're here for love, we're on the same team. 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:11.119 Um, and you need and it needs to be a little bit of an extended period, not just like instant it's kind of a nice space to be in. 00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:34.719 I mean, we're we kind of like gravitate towards each other, and and I like to have that not just be a moment, not just

like a few words of I'm sorry, like let's cultivate this thing that we're working on again, and hopefully that softness and that warmth spills into the afternoon, the evening, the next day, all week, you know. 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:40.000 Yeah, I want to I wanted to stretch out and or lead to a proposal. 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.400 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:45.360 Yeah. 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.599 Uh what about for you, Chris? 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.440 I I'm easy. 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.320 I I mean, he he's you're really good at apologizing. 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.920 Christopher's good at this the sincere apology. 00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:01.280 Um, and when I feel his sincerity, that's that really works for me. 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:14.159 Um in in the overarching thing, like I I really do feel like the coherence, meaning like, and it's not like you said you were gonna do it, so you have to do it, but to me, the acknowledgement means so much. 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.559 Like I know I said I was going to, but I didn't. 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:18.639 It just does so much for my system. 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:21.440 So it's almost like a preemptive thing. 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:38.000 Um, and what you know, my better move in that moment, because I I started it at based on because I was activated by the thing I didn't think was happening was you know, to be responsible and to say, hey, you know, we talked about this and it hasn't happened. 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:40.239 Can you what can you tell me what's up with that? 00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:45.679 I'm you know, I'm feeling a little alone over here or whatever, just the advocating rather than like attacking. 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:49.119 Um but I thought I don't know what works for me. 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:53.280 Is it and you you've used you've used that word a couple times, coherence. 00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:01.519 And so for you, coherence is like do what you say you're gonna do and be congruent with what you're saying and how you're being. 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:03.920 Is that is that how you're defining it? 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:04.960 I would say so, yeah. 00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.920 Yeah, even though, of course, in these moments that I do, like I'm out of my own coherence there when I do this. 00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.840 It's not like I'm perfect at it. 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:30.639 Um to me, there's a there's a there's a care that's being expressed when when um that I guess when it's acknowledged that that there's that he puts a level of importance on the thing that I would put a level of importance on and we've agreed on. 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:32.639 Like for me, there's something about care there. 00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:37.519 And so when it doesn't happen, I I lose a little bit of ground, trust. 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.920 You're a you're a natural tracker. 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:53.280 So you have you know, you're tracking things in the calendar, things that we need to take care of, things we need to go get and find, bring back home, things we need to work on. 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.639 You're tracking all that. 00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:06.480 And I think when you get a sense that I'm not in on it with you and I'm drifting and I've forgotten something, then uh I that brings something up for you. 00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:07.199 It does. 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:08.079 Yeah, yeah. 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:13.760 So I love we have a little whiteboard, you know, that came over time, and oh boy, I love it when he puts something on the whiteboard. 00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:15.119 I'm like, oh yay. 00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:17.760 I love it when he erases something on the list. 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:19.920 What's the whiteboard? 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:27.119 It's like the the on the ongoing list of the shit that we have to do, you know, like patch the sink and deal with the this. 00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:29.920 And oh that's so funny. 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.519 I just got really excited when I when I heard you say whiteboard for a moment. 00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:39.280 I thought you meant like the uh um a clearing conversation or repair conversation you want to have was the whiteboard. 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:46.960 I got I got excited about that, but you're you're getting excited in the sense of like him tracking and doing things and then operational things, yeah. 00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:49.039 Operational thing, yeah, that's hot too. 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.480 He's much more of a dreamer, and I'm much more of a doer. 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:58.960 And so there's a real compliment there, and we we each uh level each other out there, and I love the dreamer of him. 00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:04.400 And sometimes I'm like, ah, you're too dreamy over there, like get to work, buddy. 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.000 Yeah. 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:21.199 Um, so there's you kind of already did it a little bit, Chris, but one of the things that I teach in the repair process is um the last step is called restore integrity. 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:39.039 And one of the options, there's many, but one of the options is redo, which is you know, going back and imagining somatically, visually, and brainstorming what could either one of you have done differently such that's such that the thing didn't the hurt didn't happen. 00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:48.320 And so if you were to both imagine redoing that rupture at any point, what would either one of you have done differently? 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.320 We I was we were talking about this yesterday, I think. 00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:07.840 I um I think I was like in a liminal space where you're trying to fall asleep, but I was like, I would have liked to come back in when you said this thing that kind of blew up. 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:20.559 My first response instead of to just go into reactivity, um, hopefully is to sort of like recognize that oh DEF CON won, like oh,

something's about to happen. 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:22.719 I need to check myself. 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:31.039 But um I think I would like to ask or make a request in the moment, which is so we're clear. 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:33.360 Could you say that one more time? 00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:39.840 And what do you what do you want me to know about you or or this thing? 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:50.159 Because I I feel like if you have to repeat that thing, I'm pretty sure it's gonna come from a wiser, more calm place than the way it just did. 00:41:50.400 --> 00:42:03.760 Oh, that's I can just remember, if I can just remember to say instead of going like fuck you, if I can just say, can you please so I understand you better, can you say that one more time so that I we're on the same page? 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:04.960 That would work. 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:10.719 He he's never done it, but I think that would yeah, I want to be woken up, right? 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.960 And and generally, if I'm woken up, I I do pause and stop. 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:23.440 But when he goes to fire, I don't, I'm I I feel choiceless almost like to date to date. 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:34.559 I mean, I'm I'm really working on this, and we are very much in in the work to say, like, how do we actually calm this down a little bit and not let it spike quickly? 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:41.039 Yeah, and because sometimes I still don't know, like it's here before I know it, I do a thing. 00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:45.039 And if he was to say that, I think it would knock me right off of it. 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:45.519 Right. 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:47.360 So you you want to be woken up. 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:55.920 It's helpful for when you're kind of like disrupting the your your pattern, your go-to knee-jerk, whoosh reaction. 00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:07.440 And you're in this moment, you're imagining that if he were to say something like, could you repeat that one more time so that I could really understand what it I can be clear about what it is that you're needing or asking? 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:08.639 Is that right? 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:09.679 Okay. 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:14.239 Uh anything else? 00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:16.400 Well, I have two curiosities. 00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:20.000 Anything else that y'all would have done differently in the past? 00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:28.960 Or I'm curious if you if you, Christopher, have something that you know that would be helpful for you to like wake up when you're either go to Stonewall or reactivity? 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:35.599 Not like one little thing, but it's um we've been talking about this for a few months now. 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:57.679 It's like it there is a mindfulness to this, you know, and it's just being more in the seat of witness about everything, you know, not just because if you are doing it, if it's you're you're trying to be mindful throughout the day, it's not like in the middle of an argument, I've got to put my mindfulness hat on now. 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.840 But I think it's just what Isla Grace was asking. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.800 Asking is what could I do that would bring you back? 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:03.039 Right? 00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:03.920 Is that what you were saying? 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:09.679 Well, yeah, the the the reverse question, yeah, which for you that would wake you up, Chris. 00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:15.119 And I'm saying, is there something that Chris Chris could do to help wake up Christopher? 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.199 I'm not thinking of anything right now. 00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:27.199 I think if I was able to come down really into my heart and say, I am so sorry I just said that. 00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:29.280 That was just so uncalled for. 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:34.960 I'm working on it and I'm still cat, I still get caught. 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.280 I think that I feel like that would be a good idea. 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:41.360 Well, yeah, I mean the because a lot of times my first apology is more like I'm sorry. 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:48.000 I mean, I I call it out as soon as I see it, and then that's your first opportunity. 00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:48.559 Yeah. 00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:53.360 And sometimes the first reaction is I'm sorry. 00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:55.679 I'm sorry. 00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:02.079 And I'm like, that almost makes it worse for me because I'm like, that's just bullshit. 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:06.559 That's and it is that's no bueno. 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:12.559 So yeah, the sooner that you can turn it around and and take responsibility for it. 00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:14.880 It's he knows when I'm here. 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:17.039 Yeah, you can't hide that. 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:22.400 And so that's I I would I think I imagine that that would work. 00:45:22.880 --> 00:45:23.199 Yeah. 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:26.639 Yeah, beautiful. 00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:27.760 Well, I'm curious. 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.000 Um, is there are there any other examples? 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.320 That was a really great story that y'all demonstrated. 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:42.239 I'm curious are any other examples that come to mind of ruptures that y'all have navigated or themes of patterns. 00:45:44.480 --> 00:46:02.320 Well, when one one thing that I have been really implementing a lot more and I think is so helpful and constructive, is if it's if it's inner internally for me, if I'm like complaining about something, to really wonder like, what am I really wanting? 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:05.280 Like, what's the request I can make underneath this? 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.760 And and I've been doing the same with him. 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.280 Like we he he was he was giving me some feedback. 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.480 It was this is also just in the last week or so. 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:22.400 He was giving me some feedback, and it was, I'm like, I think he's trying to

tell me something, but the way he's telling it to me, like, it's hard to hear. 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:24.639 Like, I don't really know what he's saying. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:30.079 And at a certain point, and then and it was there was some what I would call complaining happening. 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.079 And I'm like, what is it that you want? 00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.079 Like, I want to hear you, I want to meet you. 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:36.239 Can you is there a request in there? 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:47.199 And that's that I I kept on going and and it didn't work the first few times, but I just kept going and I kept saying, like, I really want to hear you, but I'm not sure what it is that you're asking for. 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:52.159 Are you just actually wanting to vent right now and you're not wanting something, or is is there something? 00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:52.719 Uh-huh. 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:58.800 And eventually we got to the thing, and then we were able to meet each other. 00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:00.960 Like, yeah, oh, okay. 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:05.599 If that's if that would feel good for you, maybe I can do that. 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:06.159 Yeah. 00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:08.960 Uh, do you remember what it is? 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:10.960 This particular one. 00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:12.639 I remember my hand photo. 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:18.880 I get Christopher loves to chew on ice, okay. 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:20.159 Which is fine. 00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:29.199 But he chews on ice and then talks to me while he's chewing on ice, and there's like marbles in his mouth, and I it gets under my skin and I hate it. 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:32.320 And so I've said to him, please do not do that. 00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.079 I hate when you chew on ice and talk to me. 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:35.360 Don't like split the ice out. 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:36.320 We're gonna talk. 00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:36.800 Right. 00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.320 And sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't. 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:45.440 Um, but he was he was pointing out to me something about a double standard. 00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:56.400 Like, I just want everybody, I want him to chill out around annoying drivers, you know, uh in traffic, but I don't chill out about his chewing on ice. 00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:00.159 And I'm like, oh, are you wanting me to be different about how you chew ice? 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.360 Like, are you wanting me to actually be okay with that? 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:06.719 And then, and for a while he was like, no, it's the principle. 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:10.239 I'm not, I'm not talking about the ice, I'm talking about like this bigger thing. 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:16.480 And I'm like, yeah, but the only action I can take is in the thing that's bothering us here. 00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:24.000 So if you're asking me to be okay with you chewing ice and talking to me, I can consider that. 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:32.880 But if you're telling me that I'm double standard saying and I care about this, but I expect you to let go on that, I actually don't know what to do. 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:34.480 Like you're in a bind. 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:35.760 Yeah, that's the thing. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:37.119 I'm like, what's the way through here? 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:38.239 I don't know the way through. 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:38.880 Got it. 00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:44.639 So you so what allowed you to access curiosity in that moment? 00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.199 We are working on this. 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.199 Like it is, like I said in the beginning, it's a lifelong practice. 00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:56.239 And for whatever reason, this wasn't activating enough for me to lose sight of that. 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:04.159 What did happen for a while anyway, was I was like, I want to hear you, but I don't know what you're saying. 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.400 So I'm saying the right things, but I'm still a little, I wasn't whooshed. 00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:10.239 I wasn't like completely in my teen. 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:13.519 I wasn't actually there really at all, but there was some activation happening. 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:15.519 So then it was harder for him to hear me. 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.119 So then he reminded me, he's like, Will you just calm down? 00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:20.559 And I'm like, all right. 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:29.199 And then so I just got my body to match my mind and like what I was really trying to say, and then I said it again, and that was actually the moment that it got through. 00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:41.760 When you got coherent, when I got coherent, when my when what I was saying was matching where I was really coming from and saying it, and I was like, what can please let's talk about the request here so we can make it through. 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:42.719 And and it did. 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.000 We we broke the moment there, so it was a dual thing. 00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.800 We both are getting more. 00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:49.039 Yeah. 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:50.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:52.880 So I guess that's another example of people. 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:53.599 Yeah. 00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:55.920 These are the day-to-days, you know. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:03.039 This isn't some like giant uh, you know, relationship sort of, you know, uh money betrayal, you know. 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:05.440 Oh my god, there's five thousand dollars in the credit cards thing. 00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:10.719 It's like these are just micro daily kinds of things that we're doing. 00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:16.239 Those micro daily things are the things that erode connection. 00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:28.239 I mean, one one paper cut's no big deal, but you've got 500 paper cuts on you that are all unresolved or still continuing to, you know, put squirt lemon juice on them, like that's that's a big deal. 00:50:28.480

--> 00:50:45.679 So um I I I I've had this thought of wanting to write a book and the title being dishes, or like it's not about the dishes, or it's always about the dishes, or something around like because that's the everyday, like you're saying, the lifestyle, the um mindfulness. 00:50:45.920 --> 00:51:10.000 Um, okay, unless you have something else, uh some other story or anything else that's alive, I want to move towards the final question, which is so the what I liken to generative conflict is this concept called kinsugi, or it's an art form more specifically. 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:16.320 And the art form is taking broken ceramics and using gold lacquer to make it more beautiful. 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:27.519 And so, as you're thinking about the history of your relationship and all the ruptures and challenges that you've gone through, um, what is the gold that you now have? 00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:32.079 Like what what what is what is it like to be here now? 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:39.440 Uh, and like the gifts that you've gotten from being able to navigate through all these bumps down the road. 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:49.599 I think being able to share our stories with other people. 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:56.719 You know, with our experiences and how we how we got from one side to the other. 00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:05.199 Um I think knowing the knowing of like, oh, we can overcome this, that, and the other thing. 00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:14.800 We can rewrite some of these old patterns, just it feels like our foundation just gets stronger and stronger. 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:21.519 And um that means that we can go out and explore more things. 00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:25.440 I mean, we like to do edgy things and we like to try new things. 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:36.960 And if we don't have as a backbone or a backstop, the knowing that like, oh, we can always come back from something or we can find each other, and we have this thing. 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:39.920 Um, we've been doing it for years. 00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:49.920 Whoever is first into the the bathroom, yeah, who's ever first in the bathroom puts the toothpaste on the other person's toothbrush, loads it for them. 00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.800 And we've had like epic fights. 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:56.639 And still you come in and somebody has put toothpaste on it. 00:52:56.719 --> 00:53:06.480 So no matter how bad it gets, there's always like this little thread of connection through our without fail, no matter what. 00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:06.639 Yeah. 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:09.039 The toothpaste is on the toothbrush. 00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:16.800 So it's just having that this the safety and the commitment allows us to go do bigger things. 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.079 Me, that's the that's the gold track. 00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:48.320 Yeah, I mean, just the way that you're explaining it, just talking about the the foundation um reminds me of secure attachment, and it reminds me of the the

the study they did with the babies, and it's like when the the the stranger experiment where the parent leaves the room and when the parent comes back, the little the little kiddo comes back to the parent, says hi, and then goes explores really quickly. 00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:57.519 So it's like that you you you know you can always come back, but that that coming back, the the trust and the coming back allows you to go out and explore, like you're saying. 00:53:57.679 --> 00:53:58.639 So really well said. 00:53:58.800 --> 00:53:59.840 Thank you, Christopher. 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:00.400 Yeah. 00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:07.360 Yeah, I would the foundation we've a really strong foundation and a really solid commitment. 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:13.920 And so we can take and do take emotional risks with each other and other kinds of risks. 00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:20.320 And um, and there's a lot of there's the goal, the the gold is that there's we're pretty high contact. 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.800 Like we check in with each other about our days. 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:26.079 We're on, there's not a lot of distance. 00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:33.920 I mean, I think there's enough distance that we're differentiated, but there's a way that we are interested in telling each other about what's going on, you know. 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:42.800 I mean, I maybe hear a little more than I need to hear about the golf game that day, but like I'm happy to hear it because he's sharing it and and I love him. 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:51.280 And it just there's a way that like we we do we stay connected for each other's stories, and um, and that just is really sweet. 00:54:51.440 --> 00:55:11.920 And and he he mentioned touch before, and there's a lot, there's a lot of actual like contact and touch in our in our dynamic, and and that little all of that gold comes through continuing to lean in instead of leaning out and working it and really having, like I said, that lifelong practice, you know. 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:33.039 I mean, I was naming some of the things that I do that aren't so pretty here, and it's it's a it's a fraction of what of my life, but it's an important one to keep honing and honing and honing so that I don't do damage and I do less and less damage because I don't want to damage, especially the person I love more than anybody. 00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:49.360 And when I actually uh feel the harm and let myself be impacted by the potential harm, it just it again, it it it hones me, it shines me, it makes me a better person to keep slowing down and remembering love. 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:52.559 Remembering love. 00:55:54.880 --> 00:55:57.280 Circling back to what y'all said at the beginning. 00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:58.320 Love that. 00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.199 Well, this was a treat. 00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:05.679 Thank you so much for allowing us into your world so intimately. 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:12.079 And um, yeah, your generosity is is is deeply appreciated by me and others who get to hear this. 00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:13.280 Yeah, you're welcome. 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:16.960 I hope it's interesting for people and now Paul is doing what I'm saying. 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:19.280 Interesting to me. 00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:20.639 For sure. 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:23.679 Which means it's gonna be interesting for lots of humans. 00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:24.480 Awesome. 00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:26.400 Bless you so much. 00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:27.199 Be welcome. 00:56:29.679 --> 00:56:33.039 Thank you for joining us on the Relational Repair podcast. 00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:38.480 A heartfelt thank you to our guests for their honesty, vulnerability, and courage. 00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:43.039 Conversations like this remind me that most people aren't trying to hurt each other. 00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:49.360 We're simply navigating relationships with the tools, wounds, and wisdom we've gathered along the way. 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:57.360 If you'd like more honest conversations about conflict, intimacy, and connection, be sure to follow the Relational Repair podcast. 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:03.119 And if you'd like to learn more about the art of repair, you can visit drhazelgrace.com. 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:06.719 Until next time, remember to repair with care.