Walking Alongside Special Needs Families의 전체 녹취록

--> 00:02:08.800 We should engage in missions. 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:11.199 We should engage in evangelism. 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:18.879 And this needs to include people with disabilities and special needs simply because we're all people and we all need a savior. 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:26.800 Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.319 There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone. 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.159 So let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:36.080 We're so glad you could join us. 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:38.800 Let's jump into our next episode. 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:45.759 Hello, my name is Adrian Crumb, and I serve on the Committee of Diaconal Ministries of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:53.280 Today we come to the topic of how deacons can walk alongside of and coordinate both the service and care for families with special needs. 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.120 I want to begin our podcast today reviewing the basics of what a deacon is, because I think so often we can forget this. 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:12.240 In the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, we understand the diaconate not merely as a committee for building maintenance, but it's a formal gathering of brothers set aside for the Ministry of Mercy designed to reflect the very heart of Christ. 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:16.719 As stewards of care, deacons are called to be frontline of support for those in distress. 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:23.199 And it's a wonderful way that they can also have service to families navigating the complexities of special needs. 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:33.439 Deacons have an opportunity as stewards of Christ's gifts in the church to acquaint themselves with specific, often hidden struggles of these households to ensure that no member of the body suffers in isolation. 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:49.199 Whether it's coordinating respite care or advocating for accessibility or managing daily distribution of resources to support a family in crisis, deacons fulfill the biblical mandate of Acts 6 by ensuring the church's compassion is both tangible and consistent. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:04:01.039 On the Reform Deacon Podcast today, I want us to explore how deacons can honor families with special needs, acknowledging them as necessary building blocks in Jesus' living temple. 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:06.159 Though they navigate unique challenges, we would not be Christ's church without them. 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:08.080 It's Christ's body, after all. 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:20.879 And he's called us not only to minister to families, but with families who have special needs that we would see families with special needs as integral parts and servants in the church that Christ has built around himself as the cornerstone. 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:27.040 We're grateful to have on the podcast today

Mike and Naomi Scout, an OPC Church Planting Family from Zealand, Michigan. 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:28.959 Mike is a good friend of mine. 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.000 And his brother died last year. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:39.040 And I was so moved getting to attend Stephen's funeral to consider how this church, Grace Fellowship, honored this brother. 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.160 He lived throughout his life with uncontrolled seizure disorder. 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:46.160 Mike just so evidently looked up to his brother, and I was very, very moved by that. 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.319 I'm grateful that we get to hear more about how the Lord worked in Mike's life through his brother. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:04:57.600 Naomi Mike's wife has served at Grace Fellowship many years, now four years teaching an adult special needs Sunday school class called Wonderfully Made. 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.720 On the call with us also today is Eddie and Hillary Mercado. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:02.800 They have moved back to West Michigan. 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:04.639 I'm so grateful to have them at Harvest. 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:09.680 Eddie serves as an associate pastor, one of the pastors here in the same congregation that I'm serving in. 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:16.480 Their oldest son, Calvin, is born with nonverbal autism and has given them a profound heart for ministry. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:26.480 Rather than viewing this as a weakness, I've just really deeply respected how the Mercados see Calvin as a gift from Christ intended to strengthen their family's ability to care for God's people. 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.600 And then finally, Nikki Gotch is on the call with us as well. 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:40.399 Nikki serves on the witness team for Harvest, helping to plan both short-term and long-term missions projects, and then also thinking through ways to serve newcomers at Harvest. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:45.040 She took the pattern of Naomi's class Wonderfully Made and started a class recently at Harvest. 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.079 Thank you guys so much for joining me on Reform Deacon today. 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:50.560 To get us started, could each of you just share a bit of your story? 00:05:50.639 --> 00:06:02.000 Maybe Mike and Naomi, you could start just talking about how your family has seen a lifelong journey of faith as Mike's looked up to his brother and also led sort of the way in thinking about how to care for families with special needs. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.439 Yeah, thanks, Adrian. 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:05.040 Great to join you today. 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:08.560 So special needs has been a huge part of our lives. 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:15.759 As you mentioned, my brother Stephen had a lifelong battle with epilepsy, and the Lord took him home about a year ago. 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:22.959 So that shaped me immensely throughout my life, just taught me a lot of things that I'd love to talk about today. 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:29.040 And Naomi also grew up in a family that had a big heart for those with various disabilities. 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:32.720 Her mom worked for an organization that helped such people. 00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:36.319 And when Naomi and I met, Naomi was involved in that ministry as well. 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:38.240 So it's been a big part of our lives. 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:39.920 That's wonderful. 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:50.079 Eddie and Hillary, can you just introduce yourselves a little bit, maybe share some of the benefits and challenges of training to be a pastor's family with an oldest son with special needs? 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:55.279 Yeah, so I'm Hillary, and we have four kids. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.160 Calvin is our oldest, and he's 11 years old. 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:22.480 You said he does have autism and is nonverbal, but he is one of the most joyful people that I know, very affectionate, and he has been a blessing to our family in that we've been able to learn so much from him in how to not just serve him and love him, but also how he shows us how we are to serve and love one another. 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:32.160 And it's definitely affected even just our daily lives in terms of we have like an acute understanding of needing to be heavenly minded. 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:36.480 So yeah, we'd like to share a lot about what we've learned alongside Calvin. 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:37.519 Thank you guys. 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.160 And then Nikki, you're just starting off a class. 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.680 You've taught it for the fall at Harvest, the wonderfully made class at Harvest. 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:48.720 Can you share a little bit about that and how your heart for that developed from your own past and story? 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:49.439 Yes. 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:54.879 We did just start a wonderfully made class at Harvest this past fall. 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.199 We have two students in that class. 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.079 But I had been serving as a Sunday school aide to one of those students for maybe four or five years now. 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:05.920 And my heart just grew out of that. 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:08.000 My own son has autism. 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:23.439 And so I had an opportunity to be with my child through so many different medical issues and therapies, and just really felt called to use that training to serve and bless our church. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:32.159 As we have just seen and been the recipients of so much kindness and care and love from Harvest. 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:35.600 We've just really come to love our church family there. 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:37.120 Thank you so much, guys. 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:44.799 One of the questions I wanted to ask Mike is I think sometimes people don't know how to relate to families or people with special needs. 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:48.559 You probably saw a lot of embarrassing or kind of missteps that people make.

00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:58.720 Could you help someone who's listening to this, Mike, just kind of take the pressure off of them and help them to step toward families with special needs and kind of think through how to address that in the church? 00:08:59.120 --> 00:08:59.440 Sure. 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.720 You know, growing up with Steven, it was just normal for me. 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:08.320 You know, I didn't have to think about how to love him or, you know, how that impacted me at the time. 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:09.759 It just was what it was. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:18.159 So I think people who have been exposed to special need situations are for sure naturally just able to move towards them. 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.039 They're not intimidated, it's just what we're used to. 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:35.600 I do think that people who have not been around individuals with different needs like that need to be encouraged to receive the compassion of Jesus and then move towards others with that same compassion. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.440 I think there's ways we can equip and encourage and train. 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:56.720 But I think one of the things that just strikes me is that all of these individuals are made in the image of God and have needs, but also have wonderful gifts to share and have personalities, and they like things and they don't like certain things. 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:04.080 And so they're people to know, they're people to ask questions of, to humanize it more, and just to realize like we're all broken. 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:12.720 And um, and so often, in my case, Steven was the one ministering to me, not the other way around. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:18.639 So just learning to get to know them as image bearers and as people and as friends. 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:19.919 That's so good. 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:39.919 I have a young lady in our youth group, and I think some of the sort of silliness or missteps that I would make, she's in a wheelchair, and it's just dumb, but like sometimes I will like speak more loudly to her as if she can't hear or something like that, or I won't sort of come down to her level, oftentimes with games and like not thinking through, hey, is this a game that she could play? 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:40.879 Can she engage? 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:42.240 And she loves she's very straightforward. 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:46.399 I appreciate her a lot, but she will just tell me, like, hey, make me the judge of the game. 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:48.080 I'll make sure everyone's following the rules. 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.120 And uh we were very grateful for her. 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:53.600 I think you kind of hit a spot there. 00:10:53.679 --> 00:11:04.399 I think we sometimes just make assumptions because maybe we're uncomfortable or haven't been taught or have been exposed to how to love those with needs. 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:25.120 And so I do think like a lot of it is on us as individuals ourselves to actually just do the work of asking questions and getting to know these individuals and their families to really find out more of who they are, what they love, what they don't like, rather than just making assumptions. 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.799 Just like we would with anyone else in a relationship. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:37.039 It just we need to be encouraged, and I think it starts from leadership too, you know, just to encourage to love as Christ would. 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:45.360 And that that comes through, you know, asking good questions and really getting to know each individual because every single person is different. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.360 That's very, very helpful, Naomi. 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.120 Thank you so much for sharing that. 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.039 I am a dad of four girls. 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:56.720 Eddie and Hillary are a dad of four kids, so uh you guys juggle a lot on a regular day. 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:05.440 But I think with a kid with special needs, you can sometimes be treated as sort of a problem to be fixed, like, hey, come to harvest and we're gonna kind of try to fix this in your family. 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:12.240 Eddie, could you just share a little bit of how we could not maybe treat families as a pity project or something like that? 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:13.279 Sure. 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:23.120 It is certainly tempting to see a family or an individual in need and to try to, in a sense, right every wrong. 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:29.840 And and and as deacons, you're entrusted with protecting a believer's joy in the Lord. 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:36.320 And if there's something that gets in the way, you you have this natural desire to want to help that. 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:42.879 But as the hands and feet of Jesus as a deacon, we you have to recognize that you are not Jesus. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.720 And you ultimately cannot fix the problem of disability. 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.480 Jesus promises to do that. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:53.440 If not in this life, certainly in the next. 00:12:53.759 --> 00:13:05.759 And so when a deacon comes to a particular family or an individual with a disability trying to fix the problem, it's ultimately going to lead them to frustration, perhaps even despair. 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:18.320 And it will also keep that deacon from seeing the person across from him as a human, an image bearer, one with weaknesses just like you have, although in a different expression. 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:31.440 And so for that reason, it'd be wise for deacons, other officers in the church to be mindful as you seek to serve a family, an individual with a disability, to see, you know, what exactly is my posture here? 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:33.200 Am I trying to be Jesus here? 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.600 Um, because I I don't have to. 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:40.879 Uh I simply need to extend the love of Jesus, you know, in a humble, a modest way.

00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:42.159 Thank you. 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:46.480 Yeah, Hillary, any uh concrete stories or other things you'd like to share about that? 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:47.679 Yeah. 00:13:47.840 --> 00:14:04.639 So thinking about Calvin and how he is an individual in his own right, and he has blessed our family, I can also see how he has blessed and been blessed by other individuals who take the time to move past his disability within the church. 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:06.879 And he sees it too. 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:14.240 So it's not just like those around Calvin that are appreciating this, but he himself, he can feel the difference. 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:26.960 So I think about here in particular, where he has people that have taken the time to get to know Calvin personally, his likes, his dislikes, who he is, and he will look for them. 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:39.279 And Calvin is prone to eloping if he is having a hard time uh handling uh the amount of people, crowds, and sounds he might sneak away from me if I turn around. 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:44.000 And my go-to now is to find his favorite people. 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:56.639 So I look for Nikki, I look for Barb, um, who is his Sunday school aide, I look for Joel Venoyan, who always Calvin always goes straight to him to say hi and shake his hand. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:10.879 And Calvin does seem to be in his own little world often, but he knows the people that take the time to engage with him and really, you know, show him love and kindness, and he will go to them. 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:19.840 And when you remove that barrier of, oh, this is someone who we pity because he can't talk to me and I don't really have the ability to get to know him. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:27.279 Well, even though he can't talk to you, like he does have his own personality and his own way to get to know you. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:37.759 He's a very affectionate little guy, and it's just a such a blessing to see when individuals take the time to really love on him and allow him to love them back. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:38.799 Thank you. 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:39.600 That's wonderful. 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:45.120 Stephanie Hubach, I think is her name, has written a book called Same Lake, Different Boats. 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:59.360 And I think to try to build off of that idea a little bit that we are all in the same lake, even if if dealing with different physical challenges, I just wanted to ask Nikki, as you work in the classroom and see kids with different needs, they're just kids at the end of the day. 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.960 They're sinners who need a savior. 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.279 They're in different boats in that sense, but in the same lake. 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:11.279 How could you help a church understand that these families are in the same fallen world we are in while still honoring their unique and specialized challenges? 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:12.320 Yeah. 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:22.480 My understanding of this same lake, different bolts concept begins with the intrinsic value that we all share as image bearers of God. 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:34.879 Some of the challenges we face in parenting and living with children with special needs, engaging with people with disabilities in the church are unique. 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:53.279 We can and should avoid too extremes, treating people with disabilities as completely different or completely other, um, or conversely, ignoring the unique and often challenging circumstances that we face. 00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:02.879 In our wonderfully made classroom, we take seriously the commitment to assist dad and mom in the Christian nurture of their children. 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.759 We teach the children about God's word. 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.519 Each week we hear a portion of scripture, a Bible story. 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.160 We tell the story in different ways to teach and reinforce. 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:20.160 We ask questions, and the students have opportunities to answer in ways that they're able. 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:26.319 Sometimes that's using an iPad talker, sometimes it's selecting a corresponding picture. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.880 We have portions of each lesson that applies what we've learned. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:40.720 We also ask the students to put into practice things we're learning, and they help in the classroom by cleaning up and sharing items with each other. 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.599 They take turns with favorite activities. 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.680 We pray together. 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.920 In many ways, this is similar to all of our Sunday school classes. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:57.599 We also recognize that this time in class is a bit of a respite time for mom and dad. 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:06.559 They're able to fellowship, they're able to attend adult Sunday school classes to commit to an area of service themselves. 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:13.440 And I hope that they just feel loved and supported as we're getting to know and love them and their children. 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:31.839 I hope that having an open dialogue involving the church and modeling some of these things that have blessed my own family have been an encouragement and a help to others in the church, as well as just really growing in this aspect of loving one another well. 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.000 That's so, so good. 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.079 Thank you so much for sharing that, Nikki. 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:43.200 It reminds me, we're serving deacons on this interview, and then also we'll be using portions of this in a New Horizons article. 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.240 But all of us have the responsibility to assist in nurture, like you said. 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.960 We take that vow when kids come to be baptized. 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:55.680 And I think that's what's really special about being covenantal and believing

that our kids are actually participants in the body of Christ. 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.799 We welcome them into our family through baptism. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:05.279 And then parents say by vow, I'm gonna help all of the families here together, which I think is really wonderful. 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:13.920 Moving to Eddie and Hillary again, something I didn't totally understand, I think, until your family was asking some of these questions or thinking these things through. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:19.359 But a son who is nonverbal sounds and rhythms of a church service can feel really overwhelming. 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:29.519 I wanted to just ask you from a parent's perspective, what are some ways a church's environment or culture uh could be more welcoming to a family whose uh son has special needs? 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:30.319 Sure. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.880 I can comment a bit on the environment and Hillary on the culture. 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:50.480 In terms of the environment, I think it's important for congregations, if they have the space, to allow for families with individuals in their family group affected by a disability to be able to go to in a time of need. 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:54.720 And so, for example, a sensory room would be a wise thing to have. 00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:02.000 I recognize that not every congregation has their own building or enough space, but if you could help it, uh that that would be a help. 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.839 And and to make that space separate from a cry room, for example. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:12.799 We want to serve uh not only our children with disabilities special needs well, but also our moms with newborn babies well. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:16.480 Aaron Powell But another thing that's helpful would be to communicate clearly. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.759 And a church can communicate in in a couple different ways. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:38.319 Uh one is when a visitor walks through your door and for the first time and you know, showing them where to go and where to be and being mindful of areas in the auditorium that might be a little more stimulating to the senses, for example, being in front of a speaker or in front of the accompaniment. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.000 But also you can communicate in your website as well. 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:51.119 A lot of families that are affected by disabilities, they they hear of churches mainly by word of mouth, but some of them do check out a website before they visit a church. 00:20:51.279 --> 00:21:07.759 And if there is uh no language that shows that this congregation is mindful of the possibility of people of all sorts of backgrounds and different experiences and abilities coming through their doors, that might be a barrier from them coming by your church on a given Sunday. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:17.519 And so being mindful and saying, you know, if you have a class devoted to serving individuals with special needs or disabilities,

to have it on the website. 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:29.119 To, you know, as you lay out kind of what to expect in a church service, to say, you know, in this church service, you will hear kids who are crying, or you might hear noises that sound strange to you. 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:30.880 And yet we delight in that. 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:40.960 That shows uh the Lord's kindness and favor upon us and bringing uh young children in our way and people of different abilities uh through our doors. 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.480 This is a sign of God's grand work of redemption. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:49.519 I think communicating in those ways will will be of encouragement to families with special needs. 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:50.640 Thank you so much. 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.359 Yeah, Hillary, you have some thoughts on culture of churches? 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:54.000 Yeah. 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:59.599 So I think thinking back on what we talked about with getting to know the individual with special needs. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:15.039 Um, as well as their families, is really important, you know, to embrace them and welcome them in not just a superficial way, but in wanting to live life alongside them and including them both in the church and outside of the church. 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:33.519 One of the things that I've talked to with other special needs parents is the desire for the church to provide opportunities to include special needs individuals in activities like VBS, prelude songs, like when the other kiddos go up there to sing, Sunday schools. 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:38.319 This is the first time this year that Calvin has ever been in a Sunday school class. 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.839 And it has been such a blessing to Calvin. 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:51.759 And like I said, the people that he searches out the most are the people that are in his class and that have taken the time to get to know him, hold his hand, and just love on him. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:58.240 And I think having that where it is intimidating and it's going to look different. 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:10.799 Um, but having that openness of actively having them participate in alongside other kiddos and other adults would be a blessing, you know, to those who are around him as well. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:16.160 Um, because we don't want to make uh individuals with special needs feel as other. 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:21.359 So we want them to be able to participate to what they are able to do. 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.480 And the answer for each individual is different. 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:35.599 So sometimes they might say no, but I think to have the church provide the opportunity to always offer something as an option would be a blessing to the family. 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.599 And then the family also can feel loved. 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:46.559 And even if the answer is no, the family can also feel that's how I felt is I felt loved even when people say that they are willing to take Calvin. 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:52.559 For me, where we had a church where we weren't able to have him and a Sunday school class, and people offered to be with him. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.359 And sometimes the answer was yes, and sometimes it was no. 00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:03.519 But I greatly felt loved when people would reach out to me and ask and offer to spend time with Calvin. 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:17.839 So I think having a culture where the people are willing to actively engage with not just with the parents, but also with the individual with special needs is a blessing to I think everyone involved. 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:20.160 Thank you so much for that. 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:22.000 Um back to Mike and Naomi. 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.640 I'm going to start with Naomi on this next question. 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.720 And then I have a systems question for you, Mike. 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.839 I know you love systems. 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:28.720 Um yeah. 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:45.759 Um Naomi, as you've been working these last four years with the wonderfully made class at Grace Fellowship, how how do you see people moving beyond just saying hello in the foyer or just uh passing comments and instead work toward a community for people with experiencing different disabilities? 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:47.599 Yeah, that's a good question. 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.519 So it's been neat to see that happening. 00:24:51.759 --> 00:25:08.720 First of all, just the blessing of having the class for adults uh wonderfully made, because what I've heard and what's happened sometimes is they do grow out of their regular kids' Sunday school class, maybe, or the church doesn't have a you know class like Nikki's doing. 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.000 And so there seems to be like no place for them. 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:22.400 So um I think it's been such a joy to have the class for the adults because I've even asked parents, you know, like what are your thoughts on this? 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:36.319 Like how just asking them questions, and they said, well, if there wasn't a class for, you know, my child, then either he just wouldn't be able to go to a Sunday school class like the rest of his age, or we wouldn't as a family. 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.839 Kind of like Nikki touched on, it also serves largely, it serves as a family too. 00:25:42.160 --> 00:26:00.480 Yeah, this class was kind of bred out of Stephen when I was having a conversation with him, Mike's brother, and they had moved switched churches, they had come from another church to ours, and I just was conversing with him once and said, you know, what you miss about uh your church and how's that change gone? 00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.440 And he said, I really miss my Sunday school class. 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:19.920 And that was kind of the seed planted where I started praying about is that something we could do, realizing that, yeah, you know, adults, even though

he was in his 30s at the time, there still is a desire for that type of fellowship and a place to belong. 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:34.079 And it's been a joy to see that, to be able to offer that to those who walk in the doors that might not be as comfortable in a regular traditional adult setting, or for whatever reason, maybe it's too big, too loud. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:44.480 You know, we have a lady that's hard of hearing, and that smaller setting, they can just it's a place where they truly feel like they can belong. 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.240 And it's such a joy. 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:53.200 Like we as well, we pray together, they have a voice because they're able to do what they're able to do. 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.640 So if they can read, they'll read a portion of scripture. 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:09.119 You know, we ask for prayer requests so they're able to participate rather than just be, you know, a person there, you know, in another class that maybe isn't able to participate like the rest. 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:13.920 But as part of that, you know, like all of us, we all have different abilities and gifts. 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.319 And again, I think a theme as I think through all of this, it's each person's unique. 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.200 Every person with special needs is also unique, but each person still has a gift. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:28.720 So even a non-verbal autistic like Eddie and Hillary's, you know, I was thinking about that. 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:41.440 Well, he could still participate, you know, by doing something that he's comfortable with, maybe with a buddy, like an older person or another child just being by the greeting table. 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:47.279 There are definitely ways to be creative, to involve each person as they want. 00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:57.440 Maybe the answer is they're not comfortable with an opportunity, but we can get really creative and find ways where I think each could participate. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:59.839 So a few practical examples. 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.599 We have a few of the men, they unofficially just are the best welcoming people. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.680 We have one of the ladies, she buddied up with a couple and she sits behind a welcome desk. 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:13.200 So her presence is there. 00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:16.400 She feels like she's part of serving in that way. 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.559 We have another who will join the greeters, you know. 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:28.319 So there's just there's definitely ways to think through with each particular individual how they may enjoy serving. 00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:34.480 And maybe it's even the parents or another person in the body, you know, doing a card ministry with them. 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:45.039 I know for Steven, he blessed so many by another godly woman who just wrote cards to those who were sick in the hospital or whatnot. 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:52.960 And hearing those stories just such a blessing to hear how he touched so many people just with his card ministry. 00:28:53.200 --> 00:29:00.720 So there's lots of ways to be creative, to you know, use the gifts and include any individual in the church. 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:10.720 And there's such a dignity in a person who has a variety of challenges that they have to face in their life, sensing like I'm really needed by the body of Christ in this. 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:12.079 Absolutely. 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:18.400 One more thing, too, is that really touched me in my 20s was fellowshipping. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:25.440 I was talking with an individual with needs, and at that particular moment I had a prayer request and I shared it with them. 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.279 And I tell you, like that lady, her name was Sherry. 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:35.519 When I saw her the next, I don't know how many months, she asked about that particular prayer request. 00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:44.880 And she took that so seriously, which really ministered to my heart because it showed me that, you know, I gave her a moment to be needed. 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:54.160 I shared a prayer request and she blessed me in return by asking me when we saw each other, how is my nephew that was born mature? 00:29:54.319 --> 00:30:06.480 You know, and I just thought, man, like they are truly beautiful individuals that if we get to know them, we are so blessed in just numerous ways. 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:16.160 So it's encouraging the body with stories like that to show them that there's so many opportunities to be blessed by and to be a blessing. 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:17.599 Wonderful. 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.359 Thank you so much, Mike. 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:26.079 Your gift is to see opportunities in the future and kind of systematize and organize and create structures for them. 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:39.200 If a deacon was just sort of looking at a blank slate opportunity at his church, what would you recommend, whether it's buddy systems or specialized classes or other uh other things that you think could be implemented by an OPC church deacon? 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:40.799 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:46.880 Um, I think it starts with observing, paying attention, knowing your sheep. 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:54.480 And as has been mentioned previously, not making assumptions that, well, uh I'm assuming this would bless. 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:59.519 I would just ask the families, ask the individuals, how can we walk alongside of you? 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:01.279 What would be encouraging to you? 00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:07.759 And I think having that having that perspective, I think, is going to draw them out and and make them feel loved. 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.200 And then they can speak into it. 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:13.759 And then I think based on that, you can, like Naomi said, be very creative. 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:23.440 One thing we've

noticed here is that as we've been intentional, the Lord brings additional families with needs. 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.759 Uh, it's striking. 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:32.400 Um almost like they're talking, almost like, oh, you're you're thinking about this. 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.920 That matters to us. 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:35.200 This is really important. 00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:45.440 So I think if you just take baby steps, you know, one thing at a time, listen well, asking questions, I think then there's a whole host of different things you can do. 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.839 And it's not going to be a one size fits all. 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.880 Because some churches, you know, larger churches might have a number of different situations. 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:59.119 Others might have one person who, hey, don't put barriers up. 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.880 We want everyone to hear the gospel and to participate in the life of the church. 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.480 So that's wonderful. 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.079 Nikki, back to you. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.759 You're serving on the witness team. 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.960 You want people from our community to be included at Harvest. 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:23.279 What specific barriers would you see, whether it's like aspects of our building that could be improved, or sometimes maybe just an expectation, like if a kid is making noise, a family may bear some shame for that in our service. 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:29.279 What are things that you think we could grow in as congregations to welcome people from our community? 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:36.960 Yeah, I think we could think about several different reasons that f families or people are not coming. 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:39.759 Perhaps they weren't even invited at all. 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:48.000 In some cases, there may be very practical physical barriers that make it difficult to access the building. 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:56.720 And maybe some do have a sense that they aren't welcomed or judged or that it's just too hard to come. 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:05.599 If we loop back to that same lake concept, we all have the same call to worship. 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.680 John Piper said in Let the Nations Be Glad that missions is not the ultimate goal of the church. 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:14.640 Worship is. 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:37.360 It's a practical application of the spirit to indwelling his people and moving toward each other. 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:50.960 It will bear out in some unique ways, but uh on the special ways of formatting buildings, we did speak on the Reform Deacon to uh Stephen Tracy together with David Knockla and John Voss on August 1st, 2022. 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:58.719 John Voss serves with me on the Committee of Daconal Ministries, and he is a builder and told us a lot of sort of ADA special things that need to be worked out in buildings. 00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.920 So if a listener wants to go back and uh find that, they certainly can. 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:23.039 Talking to Hillary and Naomi, is there invisible labor involved that you'd want people to know about that deacons could step towards insurance phone calls, specialized meal preparation, ways that the church can just move toward families so that families are not isolated or doing everything on their own, but deacons are helping mobilize the congregation to serve families? 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.039 Well, what comes to my mind is again, I think it's a theme of just like taking the time to ask what are the needs? 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:39.440 How can we help these particular individuals, families? 00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:45.360 And so you're not gonna know it's not a one size fits all, it's gonna be different from one case to the other. 00:36:45.519 --> 00:37:02.320 So I've seen various things done, and sometimes it's not these individual adults going to the deacons, but it's often an advocate for them, either a parent or myself, or someone that has gotten to know the individual with needs and what the need is. 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:11.280 And we can't, like anything, assume that either that the deacons are just to be able to read minds and know the needs. 00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:13.760 So we have to have the conversations. 00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:30.880 It has to also, you know, come from those with the needs going to the deacons, or the deacons just being proactive and regularly touching in with those with the needs and saying, you know, what are some ways that we can assist you and need help? 00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:37.039 Um and I've seen some really beautiful things done with deacons helping, and it just is through conversation. 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:39.360 Yeah, Hillary, any thoughts? 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:46.719 Yeah, like she said, it is really challenging to say, okay, here's a list because each individual is different. 00:37:46.880 --> 00:38:04.719 I can tell you how things would be helpful for Calvin, but I think something that I would like could be more applicable overall would be for the deacons or for the church to support parents in encouraging them to prioritize their marriage. 00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:13.920 It can be on the daily, you know, really challenging to have one parent be the main caretaker of an individual with special needs. 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:22.800 And not having a marriage as a priority, like just talking about statistically, it's special needs is very trying on a marriage. 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:33.519 And I think that having that priority of having a strong relationship with your spouse is such a blessing to parents, but also to the whole family unit. 00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:40.239 And I think that that's something that you know, a lot of parents can struggle with prioritizing date nights and time alone together. 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:52.400 So I think encouraging parents in families in that situation and in special with special needs to

really prioritize that and to make it possible for them to do that. 00:38:52.639 --> 00:39:16.880 So to help in things that are maybe creating barriers for that, be it finding individuals who are willing to help in in terms of babysitting for the family, or or whether it might be like financial things that are creating barriers, you know, trying to help to lessen that burden so that they can have resources in order to make that a priority. 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.639 I think that that would be a blessing to them overall, the whole entire family. 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:24.000 That's wonderful. 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:25.039 Thank you. 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:26.880 Mike wanted to ask. 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:39.360 Sometimes I think siblings of kids with special needs, we or our families or churches can give attention of sort of how to care for and be intentional or even empower kids with special needs to serve. 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:45.280 But looking back at your family's experience, I think it's possible also that we don't see other kids in families. 00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:48.079 Some people call this the glass children tendency. 00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:54.320 Can you just speak to how deacons or the church could serve a whole family and think about all the siblings and parents together? 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:55.920 Yeah, it's interesting. 00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:58.480 I've never thought about this before, I don't think. 00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:04.480 You know, like I said earlier in the podcast, just growing up in a family with special needs was just normal. 00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:05.679 It was our story. 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:13.119 And, you know, growing older, going away to college, having some perspective allowed me to process it a little bit. 00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:20.400 My parents did such a wonderful job as they cared for Stephen, also caring for my brother and me. 00:40:21.119 --> 00:40:23.679 And so I'm so thankful for that. 00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:30.000 I I don't recall as a kid feeling like the church was neglecting me as a sibling. 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.000 I could see where that could happen. 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:40.639 I think siblings and the individuals with special needs, parents, they they just need they need the gospel, they need healthy church community. 00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:45.039 Uh you know, there are uniquenesses, but they need the church to be the church. 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.679 We don't want to sort of set up this. 00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.079 There's two churches within one church. 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:55.280 There's a church for those with you know different disabilities, and then all the other people. 00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:57.119 We don't want to be part of the church. 00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:13.280 So I think looking back, I'm really grateful for uh my parents, but also the churches that I've been a part of didn't make me feel uh left out, partly because I think they were just churches being the

church and um I could participate in that like everybody else. 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:26.400 But I appreciate the question because I think it's it's something that deacons ought to be uh thinking about that special needs does impact not just an individual, not just parents, but siblings for sure. 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:37.199 And um, so they can come alongside of families and you know, maybe the question they ask is they're shepherding their flock is um, how can we pray for you guys? 00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:38.639 What needs do you have? 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:40.159 And uh, what about your children? 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.840 Or ask us, ask us personally, like, how are you doing? 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:47.360 And allow us to share what we can share. 00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.800 That's wonderful. 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:51.599 Well, I'm really grateful for the conversation today. 00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:53.119 I was really helped, honestly. 00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:55.519 I feel like I learned a lot of things that I had not thought about. 00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:56.800 So I'm really grateful for that. 00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:01.679 I'm gonna just read off a set of resources that I think our listeners should know about. 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:12.079 Some of these are from Eddie Mercado's pastor's desk post for our church from August 15, 2025, ministering to and with those with special needs. 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.519 So he references Johnny Erickson Tata's book, A Place of Healing. 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:19.599 Stephanie Hubach, we mentioned uh Same Lake, Different Boats is a book. 00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:27.199 George Hammond uh wrote a dissertation, which is a little more academic if someone's more interested in something more academic on the image of God. 00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:37.199 And then Sandra Peoples, I just uh stumbled on a book that came out this last year from Crossway, uh, July 1st, 2025, called Accessible Church. 00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.880 So if a deacon wants to go more deeply, uh he could read that book. 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:47.039 And she also wrote an article for the Gospel Coalition called Making Room at Church for Special Needs Families. 00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:51.119 But any other resources or books or things that you guys have found helpful that you could share? 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:56.880 Personally, I have read Life We Never Expected, written by Andrew Wilson. 00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:59.760 It has been a blessing, and it has been a book that I've recommended. 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:00.400 Oh, yeah. 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.400 So he's a pastor and and they have two kids with special needs. 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:12.960 And this book was really, I felt like a good way to kind of get an idea of the world of special needs and the parents' experience. 00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.440 So yeah, definitely a book I would recommend. 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:23.440 Anyone else have uh books or resources you'd encourage people to

read or yeah, stories or other things that would be helpful? 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:31.599 There's an article, I think it's by Paul Martin, and the name of it is God Has a Heart for the Vulnerable. 00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.719 Do you? 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:37.679 And um it was a really eye-opening read. 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:49.119 And he talked about the danger, if I'm recalling accurately, the assumption that we make sometimes of finding value or placing value on individual for what they can contribute. 00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:57.920 Like often we'll say, Well, their smile lights up a room which gives them value, what they contribute to our church. 00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.519 And his argument is no, no, no. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.440 What gives them value is being made in the image of God. 00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:05.920 Because not every child can smile. 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:17.760 Or there are situations that are really, really hard where on some level the church could could have a hard time figuring out is this individual contributing to the mission of this church? 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:22.239 His whole argument is that is not what gives a person value. 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:23.760 And for me, that was really helpful. 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:29.679 So yeah, not functional, not reducing people to their function, but giving them intrinsic dignity in the image of God. 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:30.480 It's so important. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:31.119 Yeah. 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.119 Anyone else want to share anything before we wrap up? 00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:37.360 I thought this was really helpful too. 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:38.639 Just thank you. 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:41.280 And it was touching to hear from each of you. 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.159 Appreciate this conversation. 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:46.159 Yeah, excellent. 00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:48.320 Well, I'm going to close us in prayer. 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:50.639 Lord God, thank you so much for your church. 00:44:50.880 --> 00:45:00.639 Thank you, Lord, that we look forward to a day without tears where everything broken and sad will be gone and you will give us, Lord, uh, new bodies, Lord. 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.639 Our sin will not plague us anymore. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:06.400 Uh, we will see you face to face and freely worship you, Lord. 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:16.239 Would you please, in anticipation of that day, create, Lord, gospel communities, uh, served by gospel servants, Lord, of your church, uh, deacons, elders, pastors. 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:24.559 And I pray that uh in the future we would see continued growth in these areas, Lord, and that even this uh recording would be means that you use, Lord, toward strengthening your church. 00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:25.599 We pray in Jesus' name. 00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:26.239 Amen. 00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:28.320 Thank you guys so much for joining me. 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:28.960 Thank you. 00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:30.000 Thank you, everybody. 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:30.719 Appreciate you. 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.840 Deacons, we hope this episode was helpful and will be an encouragement to you in your labors for the Lord. 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:37.360 Thanks so much for joining us. 00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:44.000 Special word of thanks to our producer, Trish Dugan, who works faithfully behind the scenes to bring this podcast to you. 00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:52.000 Be sure to visit our website, thereformdeacon.org, where you'll find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. 00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.519 And we hope you'll join us again soon for another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast.