Creating Space for Courage: Reflection, Service, and the Common Good with Dr. Jennifer Maney의 전체 녹취록

over here. I have a fantastic group of people here. I have an amazing associate director who is just an excellent pedagogue. Administrative support, the digital media side of Marquette exists here, course design, media production, and of course service learning, and I know we'll talk about that, also is under the umbrella of the Center for Teaching and Learning. John Byrne: So Ignatian pedagogy, describe it. What Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: it what is it? Maybe give some some examples throughout your your Jennifer Maney: Sure. John Byrne: term there, what it means to those of us that we understand the phrase, but obviously really not both the practical aspects of it and just sort of the scope. Jennifer Maney: Sure. Yeah, and I take that as a both a professional and a personal challenge. A number of years ago the provost at the time, who's now our president, kind of said to me in passing, he said, you know, I'd really like Marquette University to be known as, at least anecdotally known as, one of the Jesuit institutions that really understands and does Ignatian pedagogy well. Now that's a that's a big kind of request, right? But I took that kind of seriously and I can get into the specifics later, but When we talk to faculty, no matter where they're teaching, oftentimes they'll have what's called a signature pedagogy. And for some faculty that would be service learning, for example, to put theory into action. But our signature pedagogy is Ignatian pedagogy. And I think it's very relevant right now in 2026 in some very unique ways. And so I'll just briefly explain. It's contextualized and faculty better understanding who their students are and from where John Byrne: Mm-hmm. Jennifer Maney: they come and what they care about. It's a unique and differentiated experience. experience that faculty offer in the classroom and that's not necessarily unique to Jesuit education. Where the difference maker starts to come into effect is the reflective part of the of the IPP. So using reflection in some very deep and profound ways that goes way beyond learning material and spitting material back. And this is I I I often laugh when I tell people when I talk about this in a in a group setting and if I forget this, it's not uncommon for a Jesuit in the space to remind me. So John Byrne: huh. Jennifer Maney: when we ask our students to reflect, what we're asking them to do, and this is whether it's a political science class, a history class, a physician's assistant, marketing, whatever it is, if we're doing this right with some intentionality, it's teaching them something, asking them to reflect on why we're asking them to learn that content, and how, this is this is a difference maker, how it connects to their role in contributing to the common good. John Byrne: Mm-hmm. Jennifer Maney: Contributing to the sense of solidarity with their brothers and sisters for the it you know both now and their future endeavors, whether that's as a a a spouse or a parent or a community member, a board member, whatever that is. And the last part of it that's really important is for the greater glory of God. Now that gets interesting because I I don't profess, I don't think anybody here professes that everybody has the same belief system, generally speaking, let alone different maybe views of what God, the word God means to them. But that is really what is the identifier of the Ignatian pedagogy. It's understand who your students are, give them an experience, and then have them reflect deeply about why they learned what they learned and how it can contribute to the greater glu good and for the greater glory of God. That is the difference John Byrne: No. Jennifer Maney: maker. And then there's an action orientation, right? It's how do you put all of the learning into some sort of action that manifests in some ways, both small and large. And then there's a evaluation is the fifth element. But that's sort of the five-prong element of the ignition pedagogy. And reflection is where we spend a lot of time with faculty, hopefully, that that will trickle down into the student population. John Byrne: So how does that work with you know an professor that's teaching data science, a professor that's teaching history, Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: you know, a non-theological class when Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: you know your goal, not your goal specifically, but the goal of pedagogy is is as you described it, reflection and I think compassion is another another part of this. So if a professor comes to you and says, I'm really struggling with students interacting for whatever reason. is this pedagogy relevant no matter what the content is? Okay. Jennifer Maney: Yes. Yes. That's a very good that's a very good question and we do spend some time with that. And we have a I would say a fairly decent number of folks from the STEM side of campus. Or even the business side for that matter, who are asking those questions. And I think that can manifest in different kinds of ways. Some is dispelling any kind of lack of confidence that somebody in those science courses, for example, can in fact teach in an ignation way. So some of it is in fact the pedagogy itself, the teaching itself. How you might use small groups, for example, to get more relational kinds of conversations going. Some of it might be how do you scaffold that reflection. To get them to the point where that you can actually say for the greater glory of God. Some of it is talking to them about, they might want to give some deep thought to the kinds of materials they're using in their class. Are they using case studies? And if they're using case studies, are those case studies, could they be utilized in such a way that would, and I'll just give you an example. We have some faculty that will use case studies about health disparities. So when they're asking their students to do a particular project, or they're they're contextualizing that in listen, if you've got

a population that doesn't have access, so it becomes a justice conversation, doesn't have access to proper health care, or might not have had a good experience in the healthcare system. When I go into and I go into a fair number of class, like particularly graduate classes, that's where I start with them. Is what does it mean to be an Ignation physician's assistant or an ignation? biologist or an Ignatian occupational therapist. We start with dispositionally, as a Marquette graduate, how are you going to be, and I put that in quotes, with your clients? How might being a Marquette University graduate how should being a Marquette University graduate feel differently to that client or that patient when they come in? So and I'll give you just an egg an example. It's it's very common, and I've heard this on multiple occasions When our nurses get hired and they're out in the community, at least the local community, our nursing faculty hear things like, we know, we know when we have a Marquette nurse. And and sometimes they'll say, well what does that mean? What does that look like? And John Byrne: Uh-huh. Jennifer Maney: they'll say they spend more time with the patient. That's a that's a manifestation of what it means to sort of be in solidarity with. So regardless of the subject matter, and sometimes it's just talking with faculty about language they use on the syllabus. We've got some really deeply embedded Ignatian language, like this is a class about anatomy. And for the most part, we'll spend our time on anatomy. But I also want you to be thinking about the different ways in which being a whatever their goal is, being a physician or being a dentist or being a you know, whatever, should sh again, should manifest in such a way that says, I'm doing all of this for the greater glory of God and to be in solidarity with our brothers and sisters, if that kind of makes sense. John Byrne: yeah, a as you describe this, what I'm what I'm thinking about is t the challenges that must exist, not just for you and your team, but for academics in the world we're in today. With social Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: media you referenced AI early on, obviously you know, twenty years ago, having these conversations with students about, you know, showing compassion and doing other things for whatever whatever industry you're in. I'm gonna it's easier, but you could point to some examples. But now you have all these diversions, you have the challenges of what's going on politically in this country and in the world, the social media, the focus on you know their their phones and and all the platforms and all those things that you and I know very well are more than distractions. How does that change your strategies, you and your team's strategies to help academics? So ten years ago was probably different than it is today because you have all those additional distractions Jennifer Maney: Sure. Yep. John Byrne: now that you didn't have before. So how does that manifest

itself in in w the goals that you've described? Jennifer Maney: Yeah, and it does, and you you're absolutely right about that. And I think about the ways we model. So for example, I'm now currently co-facilitating our fourth cohort of our IPP. IPP for faculty. It's a certificate bearing program that comes from the National Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities. and I've had a wait list, so that's that's a really cool thing. We spend a lot of time in there talking about that very thing that you just said. whether it's e of course there's conversations about return on investment and students be feeling compelled to want to go to class and you know all those things. But a lot of it is more strategic. So I'll give you an example. Silence. It's a very deeply held ignation tradition. And we talk to faculty about here's an idea. Our students are are s are very busy and they're working oftentimes, contrary to public opinion at Marquette University, many of them have one, if not two jobs. They're taking eighteen credits. They're trying to navigate themselves the world of social media and AI and nervous about being d you know, called a cheater and all those sorts of things. This is the exact moment to be at a Jesuit university because it's about relationships and John Byrne: Uh-huh. Jennifer Maney: it's about encounter. So we'll talk to faculty and say, why don't you do a contemplation with your students before you start your class? And what students will say is oftentimes is my gosh, that was the first, you know, five minutes of quiet I have had in my day. That's a that and that makes faculty feel good because they're like, I'm being ignition in the classroom and I just gave them silence. We had another faculty on the STEM side by the way that would that ask their students to write a poem every Every day before class, twice a week, and they hated it at first. By the time the semester ended, they were asking for it and they were handing them half pages of poems. So I'm saying that because some of the data coming out of what students are looking for right now in this moment of craziness and busyness and distraction are spaces of not distraction. Places where they can be in community with others. I was just at a Fordham conference a couple of weeks ago and there was a session of undergraduate students and the question was, what in your ideal world would you the college classroom look like? And this one young man very quietly said, I I just wanna like experience emotions and I want to experience things that linger with me when I when John Byrne: Mm-hmm. Jennifer Maney: I leave. I wanna get to know my classmates. You know, I don't wanna have to just produce, produce, produce, because that's the culture that we built. And so if we can be intentional about making our classroom space, space where we can establish trust, where they can think about You when you talk about words like hope, a lot of what we talk to faculty is about is how can you create some intentional spaces, hope, for your students that are feeling very anxious about the world in which they're entering, which has all the complications you just mentioned. And so how can these four years here feel different so when they get out, they've got the strategies of things like silence and contemplation and mindfulness. One of the things we're doing with the Faber Center right now is a two-session series. Just did it last week is amazing on discernment. How can you use the very ignation practice of discernment around decision making to help your students choose majors, make decisions around whether they're going to use AI or not, make decisions about what they might want to pursue, make decisions about how they might want to be with each other, both at Marquette and then subsequently after, conversations about inequities and systemic kinds of things that they might not. Have thought about. So, how can we use discernment, which is the you know, that movement that says I feel closer to God or further away from God? That's in its core foundational definition. How can we be intentional about that? And sometimes faculty just need permission because they feel like, well, I don't want to, I'm not here to you know talk about religion or make anybody, and and it's it's not about that. It really is about spirituality, broadly speaking, whatever that might mean to your students, but it's about honor. Honoring them as human beings, honoring that space that you have them for the limited time you have them, slowing some things down, giving them some space and time to think, and get and moving away from this push, push, push, push, push. Now that's easier in some parts of campus than others. You know, you've got some professional programs that require test taking and you know all that sort of thing. But we still feel like there are spaces for faculty to to offer those opportunities for students to do that. John Byrne: two things. I was honored to have a a podcast interview with the actor Martin Sheen a couple months Jennifer Maney: Mm. John Byrne: ago, and he's very much into poetry as a as a way to to learn and experience not just Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: faith but other things. So it's interesting that that writing poems was one of the exercises. let's Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: talk a bit about courage. you know, especially now. When you have such it's more than distractions. You have people pitted against one another. Obviously, there's questions, where is empathy gone from some of our policy leaders and that sort of thing? So, from your perspective, both from a student and a professor standpoint, what is both moral courage look like? And and what are maybe some broad examples of that that you've seen or or heard about? And what's intellectual courage? Courage. facts should be the way we go. I'm I still go by the by the rule of from Daniel Patrick Moynihan from years ago that you're entitled, you're entitled to your opinion,

you're not entitled to your own facts. So given what's going on that we both are very well aware of, w what does courage look like, both again from a student standpoint and an academic in general standpoint, that you are either helping to enable or giving some some comfort to those that are trying to navigate that. Jennifer Maney: Yeah, that's a that's such a great question. 'cause I think we're all being compelled right now, no matter where you are in the in the in the world really, to have courage. And it's complicated. when you're in a situation right now where higher ed is under attack for its relevancy, and you've got, for example, I know one of the things that faculty are nervous about, and probably rightly so, is being recorded in the classroom. So when you've got that kind of concern and anxiety about what you can or can't say or should or shouldn't say, it is a layer of complexity. Now having said that, I it's been my experience with the faculty here, and we talk about this very explicitly, is really ground yourself. in mission. So when you talk about what's right and what's wrong and the things that that would need both both intellectual and moral courage that you you feel that you can advocate on behalf of students or vice versa and that other people have your back. The one thing I will say is and no institution's perfect but John Byrne: Right. Jennifer Maney: I was just at a conference last week and there are a lot of public institutions really struggling with the parameters and limitations and and things and and and I was sitting there thinking wow for the most part We have been able to figure out a way to put our stake in the ground and say, this is our mission. And so we have an obligation to be committed to things like diversity and equity and inclusion or belonging or whatever word, the new words mattering, by the way. I learned that this week. So how do we support our faculty when they are being called to advocate that? So almost like not training, but helping them think that through. So if there's a moment in the classroom that gets inappropriately political or inappropriately creates a space where belonging isn't really happening, then we have to be able to tell them that that we, and that's a collective we, will have their back if they say things like, hey, you know what? That's not really in the spirit of our Catholic Jesuit identity, where we talk about things like solidarity and peace. And the manifestation of justice, which I think peace is the manifestation of the gospel, you know, and that's not trying to you know, convert somebody to Christianity or Catholicism. It's just the mission of which we've been held responsible asks us in the classroom space anyway, to, or or even for students to be able to advocate. And that does take courage. When you hear you hear words being bantied about, or you hear a sentiment that's being Mm-hmm. discussed w what whatever environment that is, how are we going to arm our students to be

true allies and advocates to say, wait a minute, that's that's really not who we are as at Marquette University. That's not perfect. But I think we need to be able to model for them. And the modeling comes in the residence halls, it comes in the classroom space, it comes in the student organizations of how the adults handle those sorts of things in the moment. And so we have to be able to say to them, it's It's okay. Now that's easy for me to say. If you've got a non-tenured faculty who says or does something in the classroom that is that is it's a different kind of protection than a tenured faculty. So we were very careful about how we say that and how we don't want to make empty promises of how you do that. But hopefully we have enough people here living the mission that they can be advocates when those sorts of things fall apart in that space. John Byrne: I have a few more questions before we get you out of here, Dr. Maney. And the one is for those that are listening or watching this that are not at Marquette, what are Jennifer Maney: Mm-hmm. John Byrne: some good source material that you've seen or been part of that goes into detail regarding service learning and a lot of the themes Jennifer Maney: Mm. John Byrne: that you raised in our conversation? Where can they go? I'm sure there's a lot, but what where would you Direct somebody to get started on this and and maybe that would pique their interest to learn to learn more about the these areas that you're focusing on. Jennifer Maney: Sure. certainly what we try to do at least at the CTL, again in partnership with a lot of other units, we do kind of cultivate a lot of materials that are at least practically speaking on our website. But we've got a whole We've got training modules that are really open to people John Byrne: Okay. Jennifer Maney: to to figure out how to how to learn more about the IPP. service learning has a number of different kinds of things. And the service learning, I want to make sure I I address that because I'm a huge fan, and it is an enormous way that we enact our identity as a Catholic Jesuit university in that act in both the reflection in the in the action orientation. So I I was talking to our director the other day and she was sharing this story with me. She said, Jennifer, I had a I had a moment the other day where you just feel like, this is why I do what I do, right? Nobody gets rich in higher ed, but it's nice when you have these moments. So she said, I was doing a reflection session, which all students have to do. So service orient is an academic program, they're in the classroom, they're learning theory, but then they're going out and spending most of their time John Byrne: That's Jennifer Maney: in a school, a church, a nonprofit, you know, something like that. And we spent a lot of time teaching our students that they don't do that as some sort of charity. They do It in solidarity with someone, not for someone. So we have a lot of conversations about what did you experience out in your space and why do you think that inequity exists? So it's not like, those poor people. It's what is my role now to try to figure this out. So anyway, they were doing a session on helping students understand the difference between charity and justice. And a student raised their hand, and this is what they said. my gosh, I think I've had an aha moment. I I think that that this idea. I think I'm gonna liken this to having my wisdom teeth pulled. And she said, my gosh, where is this gonna go? And the student said, I think if I have pain and if I have tooth pain and I take medication, that would be like a charity metaphor. But if I go and I have surgery and I I I get the tooth out, the the source of the pain, that's justice. I and I thought, that's really beautiful. That was a eighteen year old first year student here at Marquette that is John Byrne: Right. Jennifer Maney: beginning to understand the difference between and it's and don't get me wrong, there is value to doing things for and going out and working at a soup kitchen or s there is nothing wrong with that. The deeper thing and what makes Marquette different or what should make Marquette different is coming back and say, Why do all those people have the tooth pain in the first place? And why are they not getting surgery to to to get rid of the foundational source of the pain. I love that. And I thought, drop Mike. That is that is a beautiful story. And that gives me hope, by the way, that that we have an opportunity, at least here at Marquette, to really go deep with students. Because I've learned students are willing and able to go deep if you create the space for them to do it. Yeah. John Byrne: That's that's a pretty deep analogy they made. I agree with you. That was gonna be my question on do you have hope? So that's proof that you do. I I'll Jennifer Maney: Yeah. John Byrne: end with this other this actually my colleague Chris Cox recommended this. I couldn't come up with a better final question besides hope and and this is how Chris cast it. So if every graduate left Marquette with one habit, one disposition or one capacity that would make the world more peaceful. What would you hope that that would be? Jennifer Maney: Mm. I think without giving too much thought to that, I would say for the rest of their lives, be able to reflect deeply on their role in creating a common home. That's what I would say. John Byrne: Dr. Maney, thank you so much for both what you do, but also spending some time to share your insights today. And I'm I'm certainly happy that Marquette has a process like that you're involved in. I I guess I know I said that was the last question. Do you know how many other universities have something similar to what Marquette is doing, just in general? What's your what's been your experience with other either Catholic universities or other universities that has something similar related to the service learning that you're responsible for. Jennifer Maney: I think many of the of the Jesuit institutions have some element of that. I will say in a boastful s selfish way, and this has nothing to do with me. But Marquette's service learning program has been award-winning for decades. Our director's been here, Kim Bohat, for twenty-some years, and it's constantly looked at as the hallmark of what you want peace and justice and action to look like. So very proud about that. John Byrne: That's great. Thank you again. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Stay safe. All right. Jennifer Maney: Yep, thanks for the invitation. Take care. John Byrne: See ya.