Chapter 3: It's Time We Stop Calling Joe Jackson a Good Father의 전체 녹취록

00:04:53.319 We see this everywhere, not just in the music industry. 74 00:04:53.779 --> 00:04:56.639 You see it on the sideline of little league football games. 75 00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.339 You see a father screaming at his 10 year old 76 00:04:59.379 --> 00:05:01.959 boy in a gym because the kid missed a free throw. 77 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:06.300 That dad isn't building character. That dad is mad because 78 00:05:06.339 --> 00:05:09.600 he didn't make it into the league himself. And he's 79 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:14.579 taking his own failed dreams out on his child. If 80 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:17.540 your kid misses the tackle or drops the pass and 81 00:05:17.620 --> 00:05:20.579 all you give him is anger and He doesn't feel loved. 82 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.060 He just learns how to live in fear. Fear of 83 00:05:25.100 --> 00:05:29.720 making mistakes. Joe Jackson was a failed musician. And I 84 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:33.500 do believe that his failure was motivation to want to 85 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:35.879 make his sons make it in the business. But at 86 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:42.879 what cost? Diamonds aren't worth the dysfunction. What's going on, everybody? 87 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:46.350 This is Native from the Native Sound Podcast. I want 88 00:05:46.370 --> 00:05:50.180 to thank you for joining me. For the Native Sound Podcast. 89 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:53.319 I also want to let you know. That if you 90 00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.480 become a member. Of the Native Sound Podcast. You will get. 91 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:04.360 Ad free. Podcast episodes. Yes it is possible. And it's 92 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:08.939 only $ 5 a month. And it helps your boy. Alright. 93 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.269 So consider becoming a member. I want to thank you 94 00:06:12.310 --> 00:06:15.009 very much. For just being here. And listening to the 95 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:17.990 Native Sound Podcast. If you have any show ideas, just 96 00:06:18.029 --> 00:06:23.170 let me know. Hit me up at nativetribefilms at icloud.com. 97 00:06:23.269 --> 00:06:25.360 All right? I would love your feedback. I would love 98 00:06:25.379 --> 00:06:27.000 your suggestions. Hit your boy up. 99 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:27.339 All right? 100 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:31.279 It's interactive. Okay? Thank you again for listening and back 101 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.379 to the Native Sound Podcast. Now, let me ask you this. 102 00:06:35.300 --> 00:06:38.399 What if it was Catherine? Think about how we view 103 00:06:38.500 --> 00:06:41.350 Ike Turner. We watched Tina Turner's story and what's love 104 00:06:41.389 --> 00:06:44.769 got to do with it. In that movie, we watched 105 00:06:44.810 --> 00:06:47.689 what Ike did to Tina Turner. Outside of the movie, 106 00:06:47.730 --> 00:06:50.629 we heard the stories. Witnesses to the abuse described it 107 00:06:50.689 --> 00:06:55.430 as brutal. No one stood up and said, well, look 108 00:06:55.449 --> 00:06:58.129 at the hit records Ike and Tina made. Look at 109 00:06:58.209 --> 00:07:02.629 Proud Mary. Without Ike's discipline, Tina wouldn't be in the 110 00:07:02.670 --> 00:07:04.490 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. No, we don't say 111 00:07:04.529 --> 00:07:10.060 that at all. Nobody said that. We cheered when Tina 112 00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:13.009 packed her bags, walked out of that hotel with 36 113 00:07:13.009 --> 00:07:15.949 cents in her pocket, and took control of her own life. 114 00:07:16.290 --> 00:07:20.370 We recognized abuse for what it was. So why does 115 00:07:20.410 --> 00:07:25.600 the standard disappear when it comes to children? Malcolm X 116 00:07:25.660 --> 00:07:28.720 gave us the famous quote in 1962. 117 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:32.660 The most disrespected person in America is the black woman. 118 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:37.449 The most unprotected person in America is the black woman. 119 00:07:38.209 --> 00:07:41.230 The most neglected person in America is the black woman. 120 00:07:41.790 --> 00:07:45.399 Those words are still true. But we need to add 121 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:50.740 another group to that quote. And that's black children. Black 122 00:07:50.819 --> 00:07:54.500 children are catching hell every single day. And too often 123 00:07:54.579 --> 00:07:57.680 our own community looks the other way. We will watch 124 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:00.079 a man brutalize his kids as long as they get 125 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.639 rich or make it to the league. We call him 126 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.569 a visionary father. If Joe had put his hands on 127 00:08:06.610 --> 00:08:10.120 Catherine every single day, nobody would call him a great husband. 128 00:08:10.629 --> 00:08:12.959 If Catherine was a singer and blew up to be 129 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.379 a superstar, nobody would credit Joe for beating her into greatness. 130 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:19.959 So why do we give him a pass for doing 131 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:23.870 it to his sons? Is it because children can't fight back? 132 00:08:25.290 --> 00:08:29.149 Because they have nowhere else to run? Abuse doesn't turn 133 00:08:29.250 --> 00:08:32.610 into good parenting just because the victims get signed to Motown. 134 00:08:33.009 --> 00:08:36.399 He used me as the example. It was like, do 135 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:39.879 it like Michael. And he practiced this with a belt 136 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:44.330 in his hand. And if you miss a step, expect 137 00:08:44.350 --> 00:08:45.309 to be. 138 00:08:49.409 --> 00:08:50.970 Just let me go back. 139 00:08:50.990 --> 00:08:54.429 You just said that you would practice the dance steps 140 00:08:54.970 --> 00:08:57.129 and your father would be holding a belt in his hand. 141 00:08:57.169 --> 00:08:58.049 Is that what you just said? 142 00:08:58.149 --> 00:09:01.620 Yes. And he would tear you up if you missed. 143 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:05.700 And so we... Not only were we practicing, we were 144 00:09:05.759 -->

00:09:09.240 nervous rehearsing because he sat in the chair and he 145 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:11.580 had this bell in his hand. And if you didn't 146 00:09:11.620 --> 00:09:13.799 do it the right way, he would tear you up, 147 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:18.559 really get you. I got it a lot of times, 148 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:21.019 but I think my brother Marlon got it the most 149 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:24.919 because he had a hard time at first and he 150 00:09:24.990 --> 00:09:25.950 tried so hard. 151 00:09:27.379 --> 00:09:29.639 And it was. 152 00:09:29.620 --> 00:09:33.309 Always, do it like Michael, do it like Michael, you know, 153 00:09:33.330 --> 00:09:36.940 but The others were very nervous and I was nervous too, 154 00:09:37.179 --> 00:09:40.720 you know, because he was tough. 155 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:42.720 How often would he beat you? 156 00:09:45.490 --> 00:09:45.970 Too much. 157 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:49.669 Would he only use a belt? 158 00:09:54.789 --> 00:09:56.190 Why do you do this to me? 159 00:09:58.490 --> 00:09:59.690 No, more than a belt. 160 00:10:01.990 --> 00:10:03.429 What else would he use to hit you with? 161 00:10:05.649 --> 00:10:06.549 Iron cords. 162 00:10:09.230 --> 00:10:13.889 Whatever's around. Throw you up against the wall as hard 163 00:10:13.909 --> 00:10:17.690 as you could. He would lose his temper. I just 164 00:10:18.850 --> 00:10:20.529 remember hearing my mother scream. 165 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:22.700 Joe, you're going to kill him. 166 00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:23.639 You're going to kill him. 167 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:24.230 Stop it. 168 00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:27.850 You're going to kill him. And I was so fast. 169 00:10:28.149 --> 00:10:31.409 He couldn't catch me half the time. But when he 170 00:10:31.429 --> 00:10:35.230 would catch me, oh, my God. It was bad. It 171 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:38.200 was really bad. 172 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:44.059 The conversation always comes down to look at what they achieved. Well, 173 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:49.179 let's look at the science and the court records because pediatricians, psychologists, 174 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:54.210 and criminologists have studied the exact household Joe Jackson ran 175 00:10:54.250 --> 00:10:59.950 for decades. Look at the CDC's Adverse Childhood Experiences Study, 176 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:03.190 commonly known as the ACE Study. It is one of 177 00:11:03.230 --> 00:11:07.570 the largest investigations ever conducted on childhood abuse and adult outcomes. 178 00:11:08.549 --> 00:11:11.889 The data is clear. Children who grew up in homes 179 00:11:11.950 --> 00:11:16.309 with severe physical abuse, constant verbal humiliation, and and domestic 180 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:20.100 fear have a nervous system wired for survival, not stability. 181 00:11:20.529 --> 00:11:23.860 The data is clear. Children who grew up in homes 182 00:11:23.899 --> 00:11:28.799 with severe physical abuse, constant verbal humiliation, and domestic fear 183 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.139 have a nervous system wired for survival, not stability. They 184 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:35.389 are two to three times more likely to suffer from 185 00:11:35.429 --> 00:11:38.509 chronic depression and anxiety as adults. They are up to 186 00:11:38.649 --> 00:11:42.389 five times more likely to abuse prescription medication or substances 187 00:11:42.470 --> 00:11:46.200 just to quiet a hyper-alert nervous system. and the National 188 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:49.320 Institute of Justice has documented the cycle of violence for years. 189 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.600 Boys who are repeatedly beaten by their fathers are significantly 190 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:56.500 more likely to be involved in domestic and intimate partner 191 00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.129 violence when they get into adult relationships. Now take that 192 00:12:01.190 --> 00:12:04.850 data and look at the Jackson household. It matches the 193 00:12:04.909 --> 00:12:09.389 research point for point. Look at Jackie Jackson. In 1986, 194 00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:13.809 his wife, Anita, took him to court and secured a 195 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:16.909 restraining order testifying under oath that Jackie beat her with 196 00:12:16.950 --> 00:12:20.129 his fists and tore her clothes off. When a young 197 00:12:20.169 --> 00:12:23.029 boy watches his father rule through brute force, his brain 198 00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:27.440 registers violence as a primary tool to handle conflict. Jackie 199 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.580 didn't invert that behavior out of thin air. He bought 200 00:12:30.620 --> 00:12:33.600 the living room in Gary straight into his marriage. Look 201 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:38.059 at Randy Jackson. Randy spent years tied up in battery charges, 202 00:12:38.139 --> 00:12:43.080 domestic disputes, child custody battles, and bankruptcy. This is textbook 203 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.720 emotional dysregulation. When you grow up in an environment where 204 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:50.100 your boundaries are violated every day, you never learn how 205 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:54.450 to establish healthy boundaries as an adult. Look at Jermaine Jackson. 206 00:12:55.350 --> 00:12:59.250 Spending years fighting lawsuits and serious allegations of sexual assault, 207 00:12:59.710 --> 00:13:03.929 including recent court filings alleging sexual battery dating back to 208 00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:10.110 the late 80s. And then look at Michael. Michael carried 209 00:13:10.190 --> 00:13:14.340 the heaviest share of Joe's brutality. Joe mocked his appearance, 210 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.240 attacked his nose, called him ugly, and stood over rehearsals 211 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.419 with a belt in his hand ready to strike if 212 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:23.940 a single dance step was out of sync. Developmental psychologists 213 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:28.840 call the result fear-based perfectionism. Michael didn't practice 12 hours 214 00:13:28.879 -->

00:13:32.360 a day solely out of passion. He practiced because getting 215 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.620 the step wrong meant a physical punishment. As an adult, 216 00:13:35.659 --> 00:13:39.950 that turned into a crippling obsession. Michael admitted on national 217 00:13:40.009 --> 00:13:42.500 television that if he saw Joe walk into a room, 218 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.279 his stomach would drop and he would physically vomit. The 219 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:49.240 ACE study shows that children subjected to that level of 220 00:13:49.299 --> 00:13:52.820 terror suffer from insomnia and extreme anxiety. How did Michael 221 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.759 deal with that? He couldn't sleep. He spent the last 222 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.720 15 years of his life taking heavy sedatives, ultimately relying 223 00:13:59.779 --> 00:14:04.289 on surgical anesthetics like propovol just to get rid. He 224 00:14:04.350 --> 00:14:07.649 surrounded himself with toys, amusement parks, and children because his 225 00:14:07.789 --> 00:14:10.470 own childhood stopped the day Joe handed him a microphone. 226 00:14:11.809 --> 00:14:14.100 He was an adult with the emotional development of a 227 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:18.080 nine-year-old trying to build a safe world he never had. 228 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:21.799 That isn't success. That's survival. 229 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:37.850 What is freedom? 230 00:14:39.370 --> 00:14:41.919 Is it something that I can't touch? 231 00:14:42.830 --> 00:14:46.759 How can it mean anything to someone who doesn't require much? 232 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:49.279 Who would try to take this freedom. 233 00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:52.100 Away and swear that it's okay? 234 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.039 When the guy that they swear to didn't have the 235 00:14:55.090 --> 00:14:56.230 desire to take. 236 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:57.269 The freedom away. 237 00:14:57.289 --> 00:14:59.330 I mean, you no harm when I ask. 238 00:14:59.210 --> 00:15:00.409 You what makes you free. 239 00:15:00.909 --> 00:15:03.029 Is it the love that you have in your heart 240 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:05.289 that is the difference between. 241 00:15:04.950 --> 00:15:05.549 You and me? 242 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:10.960 Is it the freedom to make mistakes or the freedom 243 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:12.940 to swim in deep oceans or lakes? 244 00:15:13.019 --> 00:15:15.399 Because you are free to drown yourself in other people's 245 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:17.950 problems and feel others' pains and aches. 246 00:15:18.070 --> 00:15:23.250 Give me the freedom to love. I want to feel 247 00:15:23.269 --> 00:15:28.769 love's highs and lows with the freedom to lose with 248 00:15:28.809 --> 00:15:33.649 the freedom. It's all about choices and chances. 249 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:36.309 Hot flings are lifelong romances. 250 00:15:45.269 --> 00:15:47.519 You have the chance to make a lot of choices 251 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:49.980 but you don't get the choice of second chances or

252 00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:53.059 the magic of last first dances what is the song 253 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:55.500 that your heart sings at the sight of butterfly wings 254 00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:58.120 grace your eyes like the surprise of the shine of 255 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:01.710 unexpected engagement rings engage with me it may mean that 256 00:16:01.750 --> 00:16:03.649 you will have to go into a rage with me 257 00:16:03.710 --> 00:16:05.809 let me write on the tablet of your heart until 258 00:16:05.870 --> 00:16:07.549 I run out of ink and you are on the 259 00:16:07.590 --> 00:16:08.450 same page as. 260 00:16:08.450 --> 00:16:10.889 Me because then we are free to be all that 261 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:13.480 we can be I look at you and I love 262 00:16:13.549 --> 00:16:17.019 everything that I see Hopefully you will love me because 263 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:20.659 your love is enough. Me and the angels surrounding you agree. 264 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:25.830 Give me the freedom to love. I want to feel 265 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:31.019 those highs and lows with the freedoms and lows. 266 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:37.580 I want the chance to see how it goes. 267 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:41.159 How do I reach love's peak? My heart overflows, so 268 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:44.059 let me speak. Who would want to take this away? 269 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:46.820 It doesn't matter. I would dare them to try. The 270 00:16:47.059 --> 00:16:49.299 freedom of love is all I need to get by. 271 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.029 Without it, without you, I would surely die. 272 00:16:52.509 --> 00:16:54.710 And in death, I would hope that the words spoken 273 00:16:54.730 --> 00:16:59.370 would be without fear. because freedom and love will come 274 00:16:59.429 --> 00:17:02.330 full circle with a song that everyone. 275 00:17:01.889 --> 00:17:04.599 Can hear and then it will declare from a mighty 276 00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:07.400 voice from our hearts and echo from above. 277 00:17:08.589 --> 00:17:10.180 Give us all the strength to be free. 278 00:17:10.420 --> 00:17:12.829 And in that freedom, may we all find love. 279 00:17:12.869 --> 00:17:18.009 Give me the freedom to love. I want to feel 280 00:17:18.029 --> 00:17:23.529 love's highs and lows. With the freedom to love. With 281 00:17:23.589 --> 00:17:28.869 the freedom to love. I want the chance to see 282 00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:29.849 how it goes. 283 00:17:30.109 --> 00:17:33.349 How do I reach love's peak? My heart overflows, so 284 00:17:33.390 --> 00:17:34.529 let me speak. 285 00:17:36.670 --> 00:17:40.440 In closing, It's time that we stop making excuses for 286 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.000 bad behavior. Even if that bad behavior is perpetrated by 287 00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:49.420 a black man. Joe Jackson was an ambitious business manager. 288 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:51.500 He had an ear for hits and he knew how 289 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.150 to negotiate contract terms. That's on the record. He was 290 00:17:56.230 --> 00:17:58.809 not a great father. A great father does not beat 291 00:17:58.849 --> 00:18:01.269 his children until they bleed and call it character building. 292 00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:03.910 A great father does not treat his sons and daughters 293 00:18:03.950 --> 00:18:07.450 like racehorses running for a purse. The studies show it. 294 00:18:07.950 --> 00:18:11.109 And the lives of those brothers proved it. Violence in 295 00:18:11.130 --> 00:18:15.579 the home doesn't make children strong. It damages them. And 296 00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:19.140 that damage follows them straight into adulthood, into their marriages, 297 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:25.309 into their finances, and into their graves. Our children deserve 298 00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:28.250 better than that standard. We don't have to break our 299 00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:31.230 children to prepare them for a broken world. We can 300 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:34.829 teach discipline without violence. We can demand excellence without destroying 301 00:18:34.869 --> 00:18:38.529 their peace of mind. The Jackson brothers can honor their 302 00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:42.339 father if they choose to. That's their family business. But 303 00:18:42.380 --> 00:18:44.700 as a culture, let's stop telling our young people that 304 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:48.599 terror is the blueprint for success. Talent got the Jackson 305 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.460 5 out of Gary. Joe just happened to be the 306 00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:55.700 man holding the belt. This is the Native Sound Podcast, 307 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.980 and they call me Native. Oh, oh, oh, oh. 308 00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:04.329 Oh, oh, oh, yeah. 309 00:19:04.470 --> 00:19:05.029 Oh, oh, oh. 310 00:19:09.769 --> 00:19:12.769 Smarter than any carter, the fire starter, divine money, the 311 00:19:12.809 --> 00:19:16.769 water walker, a water potter, biblical yet cynical, lyrical, never minimal, 312 00:19:16.789 --> 00:19:18.589 perennial talent, musically, this. 313 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:20.099 Is the pinnacle, but you don't know me. 314 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:21.980 Tell them what you want to do, homie. 315 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.319 I got a block full of steppers that's pulling things 316 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.059 out the dresser. My competition is fiction, so native. 317 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:30.200 Don't have a stressor. Put this on your best list. 318 00:19:30.269 --> 00:19:32.789 The natives are restless. 319 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:36.130 The only thing that can calm them down is the 320 00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:39.369 heaven bound native sound. 321 00:19:39.470 --> 00:19:44.450 There is love. There is fire. There is freedom and desire. 322 00:19:44.549 --> 00:19:47.410 May you all get your crown. 323 00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:48.470 Get ready. 324 00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:49.910 Ready for the. 325 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:51.140 Native sound. 326 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.759 You are in the right place in the right time. 327 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.109 You might find we can get you to your right mind. 328 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:10.349 It's the native sound from the deepest underground. Dripped up, 329 00:20:10.450 --> 00:20:12.490 clicked up, so pass me another round. 330 00:20:12.650 --> 00:20:16.470 Spirit dream, bringing that swag to the team. Vocals always clean, 331 00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:19.299 got them itching like fiends. May I introduce you to 332 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:21.079 this AI? This ain't what you're used to. Yeah, she 333 00:20:21.099 --> 00:20:23.720 chose to try because why the fuck would she choose you? 334 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.220 You, you, you, put this on your best list. 335 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:31.119 The natives are restless. The only thing that can calm 336 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:32.240 them down. 337 00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:35.400 Is the heaven bound native sound. 338 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.569 There is love, there is. 339 00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:42.410 Fire, there is freedom and desire. May you all get 340 00:20:42.450 --> 00:20:50.099 your crown. Get ready, ready for the native sound. Welcome 341 00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:52.279 to the native sound. 342 00:20:55.099 --> 00:20:56.259 Now come get your crown.