Parenting with ADHD, Rebuilding After Trauma, Hope After Disappointment + Pursuing Mentorship (Q+R)의 전체 녹취록

04:59.518 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it does. 05:00.019 --> 05:00.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:01.239 --> 05:09.784 [SPEAKER_01]: But today is a good day at the lower pain day so far, and so, man, also learning, like, enough man effort today. 05:10.444 --> 05:13.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't worry about tomorrow for tomorrow, worry about itself. 05:13.566 --> 05:23.992 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that is easy to say and to preach harder to live, but things like chronic pain kind of force you to live there. 05:24.612 --> 05:25.173 [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, 05:25.993 --> 05:37.183 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, learning to be like thankful for right now in this hour, repaying his lower, while holding like a surrenderedness, is that a word? 05:38.163 --> 05:39.264 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, I don't know, I'll make it a word. 05:39.284 --> 05:42.427 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, I think, yeah, let's call it a word. 05:42.948 --> 05:44.749 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 05:44.849 --> 05:48.292 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we say, oh, that's just say, please pray. 05:48.452 --> 05:49.473 [SPEAKER_00]: We would just love to prayer. 05:50.874 --> 05:51.455 [SPEAKER_00]: It has not been 05:53.210 --> 05:56.811 [SPEAKER_00]: anything but challenging, health related over and over and over again. 05:56.831 --> 06:09.554 [SPEAKER_00]: And as anybody knows it has gone through this and many listening aren't no exactly what we're talking about or have stories similar or even more intense in different ways, it just affects every dynamic of life, every dynamic. 06:09.694 --> 06:22.117 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we would love prayer and we would love some just honest, honest prayer on our behalf for Elizabeth's healing and we feel called to this work and there's this weird 06:23.557 --> 06:24.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this spiritual? 06:24.457 --> 06:24.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it not? 06:25.037 --> 06:30.218 [SPEAKER_00]: How much of it is, you know, obviously one element or another, we know that there's very much of spiritual element. 06:30.238 --> 06:36.979 [SPEAKER_00]: We're very keen to that fact, but there's that level where in this life trouble is going to be a part of it. 06:37.300 --> 06:43.621 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's just an us update, and we're going to respond to your questions today. 06:43.701 --> 06:50.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, a couple of things that I think are really important to just note at our motherhood retreat, which was just so beautiful, so great to connect with so many of there. 06:51.702 --> 06:54.543 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we announced a whole host of things. 06:54.903 --> 06:56.404 [SPEAKER_00]: So go over to our website. 06:56.864 --> 06:59.625 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of those things are a marriage retreat, which are already sold out. 06:59.685 --> 07:00.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one already sold out. 07:01.705 --> 07:02.906 [SPEAKER_01]: The second one still has. 07:03.406 --> 07:05.147 [SPEAKER_00]: It has some, yep. 07:05.867 --> 07:08.128 [SPEAKER_00]: More than half way sold out on that one. 07:08.168 --> 07:12.109 [SPEAKER_00]: So think we have about 40 tickets left. 07:12.169 --> 07:14.850 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I don't know exactly numbers, but 40 couples left. 07:16.410 --> 07:17.330 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join us. 07:17.591 --> 07:19.611 [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be in May in Bend of 27. 07:20.691 --> 07:24.673 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we really something that I'm actually so excited about. 07:24.973 --> 07:26.573 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can check it out on our website as well. 07:26.633 --> 07:29.074 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll have more things on the podcast. 07:29.094 --> 07:29.774 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about it more. 07:29.834 --> 07:31.395 [SPEAKER_00]: But something called Ask Intentional. 07:31.735 --> 07:32.255 [SPEAKER_00]: And it is. 07:33.155 --> 07:40.960 [SPEAKER_00]: Such a fun resource been waiting to reveal this to you all for a bit, but what it is, essentially like, what is ask intentional? 07:41.500 --> 08:01.131 [SPEAKER_00]: It is just a spot on our website and you can ask anything in your in the prompt and it only pulls responses from over our 350 episodes and so the only response will be taken from the archive of 350 episodes of content that we have created over the years. 08:01.851 --> 08:07.254 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of my favorite parts is it doesn't pull from, you know, another AI source or anything like that's just our words. 08:07.974 --> 08:11.475 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I also love is that it gives you it's a way to search a podcast. 08:11.575 --> 08:26.762 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're like, well, a topic about anxiety or fear or marriage, it's a way to research and the cool part is once you ask a question, it will pull up the exact episode of pull from and you can click a button, link to you right to the episode, or even just takes you right to that spot. 08:26.802 --> 08:27.963 [SPEAKER_00]: So just want to encourage you all. 08:28.383 --> 08:32.947 [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't used that yet, ask intentional, it's right on our website, intentional parents' artwork. 08:33.167 --> 08:35.449 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's just kind of housekeeping stuff. 08:36.030 --> 08:43.116 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about neurodivergent parenting and when we ourselves might be that way. 08:44.116 --> 08:47.059 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we have a lot of these questions come in. 08:47.319 --> 08:50.221 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a lot of because this is our story also because I think 08:51.382 --> 09:00.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So many different families have different levels and are becoming aware of all the different levels of neurodivergence in their homes, and I think it's both beautiful as an education to understand. 09:01.332 --> 09:05.536 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think you probably feel like we do a lot, which is, well, what does that mean? 09:05.576 --> 09:07.478 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you do to the rules change? 09:07.498 --> 09:08.158 [SPEAKER_00]: How do they change? 09:08.198 --> 09:11.381 [SPEAKER_00]: These are

questions that you have all asked in different ways. 09:12.182 --> 09:24.013 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I mean there's a host of questions, but I do want to actually just take a second to just pull from a couple because I mean there's so many good ones here. 09:25.274 --> 09:28.216 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, I'm going to pick this one, okay, are you ready? 09:28.497 --> 09:28.857 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready. 09:30.278 --> 09:36.023 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you navigate parenting when one or both spouses have ADHD or other neurodivergent traits? 09:38.293 --> 09:45.276 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you approach parenting when you, the adult, are struggling with your own sense of awareness? 09:45.657 --> 09:53.720 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just to start, because I absolutely do have ADHD, which is maybe surprisesome. 09:53.901 --> 09:55.281 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter if it's a surprise to you or not. 09:55.381 --> 09:55.801 [SPEAKER_00]: It is real. 09:57.182 --> 09:58.623 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, 10:00.341 --> 10:10.030 [SPEAKER_00]: That has been one of the more helpful understandings for me as a dad, as a father, to learn that that is actually something of how my brain works. 10:10.631 --> 10:22.062 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it gives not only, it doesn't give permission to act poorly, but it gives understanding of a lot of the ways that I naturally operate and things that just come up in my head or distractions or forgiveness or 10:23.903 --> 10:27.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Even emotional dysregulation, it's amazing how it shows up for different people. 10:27.807 --> 10:29.669 [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, that's one of them. 10:29.909 --> 10:31.931 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how do you do that? 10:31.951 --> 10:37.856 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the first thing you have to do is begin the honest conversation about the fact that you might actually have that. 10:38.637 --> 10:53.894 [SPEAKER_00]: I know for us, and I won't speak for your part of it, but, you know, this was something that you had a growing curiosity about, and I had a growing frustration about, because, you know, your tendency because your heart was to care for me, and you, it wasn't shame. 10:53.934 --> 10:55.536 [SPEAKER_00]: The way you approached it was not shameful at all. 10:55.576 --> 10:56.196 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be really clear. 10:56.216 --> 10:56.557 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't. 10:57.237 --> 10:59.399 [SPEAKER_00]: But I felt shame. 10:59.419 --> 11:02.300 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, oh, you're diagnosing. 11:02.320 --> 11:03.541 [SPEAKER_00]: You're thinking I have this thing. 11:04.282 --> 11:12.046 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm wrong or or if it's just easier to say that I have a DST because you think, you know, that I'm not behaving in the right way or whatever. 11:13.367 --> 11:16.089 [SPEAKER_00]: None of that was true, but I'm just saying that's how I interpreted it. 11:16.169 --> 11:25.797 [SPEAKER_00]: So it actually, and we can just relate, it is challenging when Maybe one spouse notices it and another doesn't that conversation can be really tricky. 11:26.537 --> 11:29.659 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it starts with awareness, but What do you remember about that? 11:29.679 --> 11:35.584 [SPEAKER_01]: And then what would you say to this because this is you brought up the word shame and 11:37.864 --> 11:46.748 [SPEAKER_01]: People with neurodivergent brains, especially who didn't know from a young age, carry a lot of shame. 11:47.848 --> 11:55.732 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've not met one adult who has ADHD or dyslexia or both, but that's really, really common. 11:57.613 --> 12:09.444 [SPEAKER_01]: Or whatever it might be, OCD, that doesn't feel shame, that doesn't feel like there's inherently something wrong with them. 12:10.284 --> 12:18.271 [SPEAKER_01]: And what that can look like is very often times overreactivity because we're all so afraid of shame. 12:18.291 --> 12:21.674 [SPEAKER_01]: The first thing that happens after the fall, shame enters the story. 12:22.375 --> 12:24.597 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the very first thing that Adam and Eve feel. 12:25.038 --> 12:27.340 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the very first thing that they're running from. 12:28.281 --> 12:32.825 [SPEAKER_01]: And that has carried over into all of us and all of our DNA. 12:32.985 --> 12:36.548 [SPEAKER_01]: Shame is like the worst feeling we were not made for. 12:37.650 --> 12:40.072 [SPEAKER_01]: And so what happens so often is 12:41.393 --> 13:01.848 [SPEAKER_01]: when we tried to bring it up or when I would even try to bring it up for you, it was like you were so afraid of the like that means I'm less than which wasn't at all what I was trying to say but it was and correct me if I'm wrong like what you were feeling was she's telling me there's something wrong with me and maybe inside you always felt like there was something broken or wrong. 13:02.829 --> 13:18.813 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't remember the stats, but like the amount of times that a neurodivergent kid is corrected and told their doing something wrong compared to a neurodipical kid is the percentage is way higher. 13:18.893 --> 13:27.595 [SPEAKER_01]: So from a very young age, those people are getting over-parented in many ways because there's a lot more to correct. 13:28.175 --> 13:31.856 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think as if you're the adult who's maybe wondering if you 13:33.296 --> 13:41.679 [SPEAKER_01]: are neurodivergent or maybe you've been diagnosed, just even just being aware of where does that shame show up for you? 13:42.439 --> 13:52.082 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it when your kid is completely losing their mind or overreacted or forgot something again and you overreacted that kid like crazy because you were that kid who was getting corrected all the time? 13:52.922 --> 14:00.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Like not to like over-analyze everything, but to be aware of like where is their shame and how is it coming out for you? 14:01.830 --> 14:11.398 [SPEAKER_01]: And then statistically, if you are neurodivergent or your spouse is, it's very

likely that some of your kids will be, it says genetic is eye color. 14:12.339 --> 14:13.640 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more genetic than that. 14:13.861 --> 14:17.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so we serve a God of redemption. 14:17.784 --> 14:20.046 [SPEAKER_01]: We say that all the time, we hear that in church all the time. 14:20.686 --> 14:29.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that can look like you get to parent, you are four year old with ADHD, you're eight year old, you're 12 year old, you're 18 year old. 14:30.434 --> 14:35.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Very differently than maybe you were parented if your parent didn't know that was happening with you. 14:35.057 --> 14:43.221 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I even look at some of our kids right now of we grew up in the delayed obedience as disobedience era of parenting. 14:43.721 --> 14:52.766 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also so funny how there's all these different things that stick in various generations that then you get a few generations removed and you're like, why did 14:52.846 --> 14:54.888 [SPEAKER_01]: we parent that way or what did we say that? 14:56.110 --> 15:01.716 [SPEAKER_01]: And I get the sentiment we want kids that obey our instruction, like that is biblical, that is important. 15:02.717 --> 15:12.968 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're raising neurodivergent kids and you're still parenting that way of like if you don't remember the very first time that I said go put your shoes on or go, 15:13.528 --> 15:25.085 [SPEAKER_01]: do that thing and you forgot, well then there's a consequence you disobeyed, we can easily make things that are neurobiological and developmental character issues. 15:25.706 --> 15:27.269 [SPEAKER_00]: We make a lot of things moral. 15:27.509 --> 15:28.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 15:28.270 --> 15:31.492 [SPEAKER_01]: when they're not in fact more and character is built over time. 15:31.792 --> 15:36.615 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not built because they remembered to go clean up their room the first time. 15:37.395 --> 15:45.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes as a parent, we have to be long-suffering with our kids and patient with our kids, whether they are neurotypical or neurodivergent. 15:46.620 --> 15:51.643 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think of like that is all of our kids, but there are a couple in particular where 15:53.044 --> 16:06.696 [SPEAKER_01]: distraction is huge and I can be like coming down with a hammer all day long or I can be really compassionate and I can continue to guide that kid to do the thing I asked them to do because they're not being rebellious. 16:06.716 --> 16:15.524 [SPEAKER_01]: There isn't a rebellious spirit behind the fact that they missed the one corner of the room that I reminded them they needed to remember to clean up. 16:15.584 --> 16:17.327 [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say there's a story coming to mind. 16:17.847 --> 16:22.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have this opportunity every day, throughout the day. 16:23.055 --> 16:27.381 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's usually like three, four different reminders. 16:27.441 --> 16:30.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's different people that would fall into that camp and go. 16:30.826 --> 16:35.770 [SPEAKER_00]: they're not obeying you because the first time they've learned that they can just ignore you. 16:36.170 --> 16:48.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I totally agree that that can happen and I think certain kids know those moments when it's like care not serious and to be fair we have that dynamic at times too and we get it. 16:49.701 --> 16:54.845 [SPEAKER_00]: But learning about yourself but then also learning about your kids, it does create empathy because 16:59.108 --> 17:02.292 [SPEAKER_00]: quickly as you say it leaves their head and the details fall. 17:02.872 --> 17:09.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it is interesting to me how understanding that gives you a whole different approach of parenting. 17:09.520 --> 17:14.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, to the question of what do you do if you or your spouse, I'd say you guys have got to get to a spot. 17:15.587 --> 17:19.592 [SPEAKER_00]: even right now where you can be honest with one another in a non-shame filled way. 17:19.612 --> 17:23.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I would just encourage, can you have a non-shame filled conversation? 17:23.637 --> 17:29.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you set a safe space to say, this isn't judging this isn't your broken. 17:29.824 --> 17:35.511 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a way for us to both understand how we operate better so that we can parent and love our kids better. 17:36.071 --> 18:01.084 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a beautiful thing, and we all should and do desire that, and if you're listening to this podcast, you desire to grow in that, and so I think it's learning and being open to the fact that you yourself might have some needs that you weren't aware of, but that's the beauty I think about growing, formation to Jesus as an example, we are constantly being formed into His likeness, so that means you're growing in self-awareness, that means you should be 18:01.664 --> 18:09.127 [SPEAKER_00]: having different things over the years that are maybe being pointed out, not in a rude way, but that you're being aware of and then growing and stepping into the new invitation. 18:09.787 --> 18:11.627 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's learning a whole new way to parent. 18:11.647 --> 18:13.668 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that's a lot of my situations, sorry. 18:14.548 --> 18:16.309 [SPEAKER_00]: I have before we move on to the next question yet. 18:16.329 --> 18:18.310 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know you have a first. 18:18.350 --> 18:19.150 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also have a question. 18:20.250 --> 18:23.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because for me for the people for you. 18:23.592 --> 18:24.713 [SPEAKER_01]: No, for you. 18:25.753 --> 18:30.176 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, guys, let's know and I think maybe we talked about this on another episode. 18:30.196 --> 18:32.477 [SPEAKER_01]: We've done like exclusively on the topic, but 18:33.908 --> 18:45.454 [SPEAKER_01]: When I started, so when I

started to talk to you about it, to try to start kind of a discovery process was after we'd gone through four different evaluations for our kids. 18:45.534 --> 18:51.336 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like immersed in it with our kids and starting to learn a lot and then starting to notice, 18:57.099 --> 19:05.885 [SPEAKER_01]: And that it was like a, probably like a two to three years of me kind of mentioning it, but it being kind of not something you wanted to talk about. 19:07.317 --> 19:14.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way that I could have approached that differently that you think you would have heard it differently? 19:14.924 --> 19:19.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm just thinking of the spouse listening who's like, I've tried to add that conversation. 19:20.028 --> 19:21.329 [SPEAKER_01]: My spouse just gets mad every time. 19:21.349 --> 19:22.770 [SPEAKER_01]: My spouse just shuts down every time. 19:22.790 --> 19:23.631 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not interested. 19:26.373 --> 19:33.880 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe give the listener some handlebars of what kind of things would be helpful to say and what would maybe not be helpful to say. 19:35.786 --> 19:41.551 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make it brief, but I think this will move the needle more than if you are a wife listening. 19:41.752 --> 19:43.693 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll speak to this as a husband. 19:44.154 --> 19:52.201 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's certain things for both men and women that we have a hard time believing that these things could be so simple and move the needle, but they do. 19:52.742 --> 19:55.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And so just lean in, trust me with what I'm saying. 19:56.777 --> 20:05.339 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that when you get to the spot where you are finally becoming aware of this, there might be a generalized excitement of like, oh my gosh, it's my being answer. 20:07.480 --> 20:24.664 [SPEAKER_00]: But then there's also frustration, no doubt that if you are living with someone with no divergence and you haven't either been diagnosed, understand what's going on, you're going to have some probably very real of built-up frustrations that are not entirely because of that, but maybe really highly linked to it. 20:27.345 --> 20:31.648 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a lot of suggestion, I can only speak from our situation. 20:32.248 --> 20:47.139 [SPEAKER_00]: There was just a lot of suggestion, it's like maybe and I think you were just trying to be subtle, so it was passive, it wasn't very direct, it was kind of more like, you know, maybe you do, and I think you were trying to be playful and read me like, is he gonna have fun with this? 20:47.199 --> 20:48.459 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I'm not having fun with this. 20:50.621 --> 20:58.087 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think your approach was trying to be more subtle, which I can 100% understand the heart. 20:58.508 --> 20:58.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 20:59.208 --> 21:03.532 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it would have been a more helpful if you were. 21:04.968 --> 21:06.489 [SPEAKER_00]: tender loving, but just more direct. 21:07.090 --> 21:08.771 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd really love to have a conversation about this. 21:08.911 --> 21:10.313 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's why I would love to. 21:11.033 --> 21:12.835 [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean like just bringing it on. 21:12.855 --> 21:15.777 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, find a time to talk about this and say, here's some of the reasons. 21:16.978 --> 21:19.340 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't have to like build a whole case. 21:19.440 --> 21:21.882 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's not what I would say would would have been helpful. 21:21.922 --> 21:26.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Either I think there's an extreme where it's like bringing a word doc with 27 pages is overwhelming. 21:26.746 --> 21:27.407 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean that. 21:28.167 --> 21:28.588 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think 21:30.069 --> 21:41.733 [SPEAKER_00]: Starting with that place of compassion, care, calling your husband up as an example or vice versa, to who you see them be, like, I see this as something that could be potentially slowing you down to who I see you to be. 21:42.634 --> 21:46.936 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if us figuring this out could be something that gives you just peace. 21:47.416 --> 21:49.236 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wouldn't last thing I'd say. 21:50.097 --> 21:57.280 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not motivating for a person, I think, in general, Christian or not, because we can pretend that we have all these feelings that we really don't. 21:59.302 --> 22:03.467 [SPEAKER_00]: that I just I'm calling you up so you can be a better spouse to me. 22:03.948 --> 22:14.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Now that is something I want but you know it's more motivating to me because we're all selfish by nature but like our default systems I just want you to be able to live in your own skin in a way that you feel comfortable with you. 22:15.838 --> 22:20.922 [SPEAKER_00]: The byproduct of that is being a better spouse, is being a better father, is being a better mother. 22:21.422 --> 22:28.648 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say, use the motivation that's naturally built in the heart, which is they feel it. 22:28.848 --> 22:37.014 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can say that, yeah, there were certain levels of my own being with myself was hard because of the way that things are biologically worked in my head. 22:38.343 --> 22:40.544 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't need to sum it again, but yeah, that's what I'm saying. 22:40.564 --> 22:41.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that's helpful. 22:42.625 --> 22:53.611 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the scripture that was coming to mind is Psalm 103, verse 8, the Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. 22:55.396 --> 23:01.642 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, that is who God calls us to be. 23:01.662 --> 23:03.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Where we are to be Christ like. 23:04.765 --> 23:07.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Then that is who we are to be to our spouse and to our kids. 23:07.588 --> 23:11.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Compassionate, gracious, slow to

anger, abounding in love. 23:12.773 --> 23:24.046 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, with our kids who are neurodivergent, it does not mean that we do not correct them, but discipline is training, and our kids who are neurodivergent need a lot of training. 23:24.827 --> 23:29.493 [SPEAKER_01]: And we can do that in a way that is gracious, compassionate, slow to anger. 23:31.333 --> 23:41.536 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that more than ever is what is needed in our current time and maybe needs to replace the delayed obedience as disobedience. 23:42.376 --> 23:48.238 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we need to be right alongside them helping them get the task down or whatever it is. 23:49.140 --> 23:49.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 23:49.801 --> 23:50.661 [SPEAKER_00]: That's good. 23:50.801 --> 23:52.283 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was our first question. 23:52.303 --> 23:56.546 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to move on to a different question, but maybe similar category. 23:57.227 --> 24:06.454 [SPEAKER_00]: How do parents who may be one or both experienced childhood trauma build healthy family cultures when they have few personal examples to draw from? 24:06.474 --> 24:12.960 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is definitely going to need to be answered by you. 24:13.413 --> 24:16.775 [SPEAKER_00]: What if this was an episode like maybe your parents were great? 24:16.795 --> 24:21.038 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're not, they're actually incredibly wonderful people. 24:21.158 --> 24:21.798 [SPEAKER_01]: They really aren't. 24:21.818 --> 24:22.318 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what though? 24:22.658 --> 24:25.560 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say before you need to answer the majority of this question. 24:28.351 --> 24:45.816 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been thinking about and I don't know if I've said this yet on the podcast, but just thinking a lot about like, even if you come from really healthy families and you didn't experience a lot of big tea trauma in your family of origin, maybe your family's really good at working things out, maybe you come from a great family. 24:46.856 --> 24:49.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Every family has generational stuff they are trying to heal from. 24:50.017 --> 24:50.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Every person. 24:51.717 --> 24:53.978 [SPEAKER_01]: My family, incredible family. 24:54.098 --> 24:55.498 [SPEAKER_01]: I can truly, truly say that. 24:56.278 --> 24:59.359 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of generational sin on both sides that I am. 24:59.779 --> 25:00.620 [SPEAKER_01]: My siblings are. 25:01.040 --> 25:10.222 [SPEAKER_01]: My mom is and dad are still trying to stop because they have trickled down into our family line because they have been there for decades and decades. 25:10.882 --> 25:16.465 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I think it's really easy to look at like, well, I came from a good family, so I don't have stuff. 25:16.605 --> 25:29.292 [SPEAKER_01]: Generational stuff I need to work on, and I think that's freeing as a parent, because even if you're doing a really good job, even if you're like this question, trying to give your family something you never had, you're trying so hard to have a healthy family culture. 25:30.292 --> 25:52.433 [SPEAKER_01]: If what you think a healthy family culture is is perfection and no and maybe that's not even a word that consciously you're thinking but maybe if you think that means my kids will not have generational stuff they will need to heal from we just need to shed that false reality because there will be stuff we all have stuff because we live in a sinful fallen world 25:53.153 --> 25:57.718 [SPEAKER_01]: and your kids are going to have generational stuff that didn't completely get stopped with you. 25:57.878 --> 25:58.799 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay. 25:59.179 --> 25:59.419 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:59.579 --> 26:01.361 [SPEAKER_01]: They get to then carry that on again. 26:01.541 --> 26:03.463 [SPEAKER_01]: God redeeming and redeeming and redeeming. 26:04.104 --> 26:05.145 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think you should answer. 26:05.525 --> 26:06.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, actual question. 26:06.746 --> 26:08.167 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if there's an answer. 26:08.268 --> 26:11.811 [SPEAKER_00]: My response would simply be you have got to find models. 26:14.233 --> 26:18.575 [SPEAKER_00]: you have to get really comfortable with unlearning and you have to get really comfortable with re-learning. 26:19.095 --> 26:20.336 [SPEAKER_00]: Unlearning is the hardest part. 26:21.716 --> 26:29.239 [SPEAKER_00]: Unlearning bad habits, generational responses, things that just are automatic. 26:29.499 --> 26:37.343 [SPEAKER_00]: We have this whole operating system and we're handed in nervous system when we are raised and it's interesting because 26:38.303 --> 27:05.202 [SPEAKER_00]: one of the things my mom grew up in some trauma for sure and I grew up in some trauma for sure and one of the things that my kids make fun of me about that I remember in my mom, my mom has a very hyperactive nervous system and she knows that and whenever we would like in the middle of the night wake her up for something she would always have this very like like jump out of bed response I remember it always and she'd be laughing if she heard it and I have almost the same but you know it's as intense but the same deal like our kids make 27:07.685 --> 27:21.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And you like kind of like start a wake, but you have mouth tape on so you're like like, I'm like a hostage all of a sudden and so as an example, like there's a lot of unlearning and so 27:22.598 --> 27:23.999 [SPEAKER_00]: unlearning takes humility. 27:24.259 --> 27:26.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Humility is something that comes over time. 27:26.501 --> 27:35.068 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something you pray for a lot and ask God for and just be open to the fact that you might not have had it all figured out. 27:35.108 --> 27:35.649 [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay. 27:35.669 --> 27:36.449 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing wrong with that. 27:37.130 --> 27:47.598 [SPEAKER_00]: So unlearn, that means when

people give me feedback of like that's not the best way to do that like lean in because it's good for you to go like maybe I don't love how it happened for me. 27:48.099 --> 27:49.220 [SPEAKER_00]: So what do I need to unlearn? 27:52.342 --> 28:02.751 [SPEAKER_00]: and then relearn what are healthy models that's, if you see somebody in your life, reach out to them, ask them, can I take you out to them and ask you different questions of how you parent? 28:03.292 --> 28:17.204 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say if you see a family around you, whether that's church community, that her is doing an average job, and you're like, I think they just have more figured out them we do, spend time with them when you're at dinner, watch how they interact with their kids. 28:18.105 --> 28:19.365 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we need models. 28:19.465 --> 28:22.466 [SPEAKER_00]: Our generation is lacking models in such a huge way. 28:22.486 --> 28:41.170 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the reasons we're so passionate about what we're doing with intentional and intentional fatherhood motherhood marriage is because we're trying to not perfectly by any means like haphazardly give models of what it can look like to follow Jesus in this moment in healthy ways as a father is a mother as a spouse and as a parent and so that 28:41.950 --> 28:42.930 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to this podcast. 28:42.950 --> 28:44.951 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing you can do for sure, but it's not enough. 28:44.991 --> 28:53.354 [SPEAKER_00]: You need models to understand How do I move through the world with my kid presses on that thing in me and I freak out what do I do there? 28:53.454 --> 28:55.215 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you do it? 28:55.595 --> 29:09.940 [SPEAKER_00]: You unlearn, you relearn and you pray a lot and you slow down a lot because I mean, I am 41 in a month and I feel like I'm barely starting to get the hang of like how I actually move through the world 29:10.800 --> 29:22.871 [SPEAKER_00]: And this association was a big part of my life because as a way handled with handled all the different paint and so even now I'm learning like I just associate from all sorts of stuff but I don't always even know it and I hate that. 29:23.651 --> 29:35.401 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how I'd respond but I also think it's kind of leads into another question that's actually within the line of disappointment some of the things that you come into adulthood with. 29:36.342 --> 29:40.405 [SPEAKER_00]: This is on the idea of like spiritual growth and disappointment on topics. 29:41.325 --> 29:43.947 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you continue to dream hope? 29:44.247 --> 29:44.967 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm reading this question. 29:44.987 --> 29:46.668 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a lot to say. 29:46.968 --> 29:54.093 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you continue to dream hope and pursue godly desires after experiencing repeated disappointment or on an answered prayers? 29:55.674 --> 29:56.674 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you dream hope? 29:57.154 -->

29:57.975 [SPEAKER_01]: I read this question. 29:58.996 --> 30:00.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly enough, this is the number that no. 30:02.250 --> 30:06.717 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how do you continue to dream hope after being disappointed over and over again, and answer prayers? 30:09.001 --> 30:15.111 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've been sitting with us a lot, because I just keep saying hope feels really, really thin. 30:18.898 --> 30:25.022 [SPEAKER_01]: And I keep coming back to, we love because we're human. 30:25.182 --> 30:31.247 [SPEAKER_01]: We love to jump to, hope, authentic trust, joy. 30:32.888 --> 30:38.612 [SPEAKER_01]: God's got this, we ourselves, that feels so much better. 30:38.672 --> 30:39.653 [SPEAKER_01]: So we want to get there. 30:40.393 --> 30:49.304 [SPEAKER_01]: as a culture, it's almost forcing it all the time, especially when there's been repeated like what we would call long-suffering. 30:51.186 --> 30:55.711 [SPEAKER_01]: So from all sides to pushing, you just need to get there, you just need to get there. 30:56.752 --> 31:15.991 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I look at the scriptures, and when I read David in the Psalms especially, there's this kind of cadence, this like almost liturgy when you read the Psalms of lament, they always start with gutteral honesty before God. 31:16.992 --> 31:19.895 [SPEAKER_01]: like, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 31:20.016 --> 31:21.918 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's Psalm 22. 31:22.839 --> 31:23.800 [SPEAKER_01]: He's quoting Jesus. 31:24.140 --> 31:26.803 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, essentially Jesus in the garden, that's what Jesus says. 31:27.124 --> 31:28.025 [SPEAKER_01]: And, or no, on the cross. 31:28.665 --> 31:33.711 [SPEAKER_01]: And they start with this honesty of like, 31:35.365 --> 31:36.966 [SPEAKER_01]: truly not being okay. 31:37.246 --> 31:40.287 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is okay to not be okay. 31:41.067 --> 31:42.887 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to stay stuck there forever. 31:43.108 --> 31:44.228 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to stay stuck there. 31:44.848 --> 31:53.531 [SPEAKER_01]: But if we're not willing to go there, we can't actually access the other emotion, the other feelings that we want to have. 31:54.271 --> 31:57.032 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of it is choosing hope and choosing trust. 31:57.592 --> 31:59.253 [SPEAKER_01]: But like to authentically get there, 32:00.033 --> 32:22.435 [SPEAKER_01]: We first have to be really honest with God, like God, I'm afraid to trust you because it feels like I've been failed over and over again, like God can handle your anger, your frustration, your confusion, like I've been saying to God this year, like God, I believe you can heal, I struggle to believe that you will. 32:24.455 --> 32:34.137 [SPEAKER_01]: like period pause, like that, that's okay to just tell him that and sit there with him in that. 32:34.817 --> 32:37.138 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the place that you are, that's okay. 32:37.238 --> 32:43.559 [SPEAKER_01]: But continue to read the Psalms, and you'll see this cadence, you'll see it especially in Psalm 22, where it's like this 32:47.260 --> 32:48.880 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they always end. 32:49.381 --> 32:50.341 [SPEAKER_01]: They're in right in the middle. 32:50.361 --> 32:53.281 [SPEAKER_01]: There's always something about remembering what God has done. 32:53.321 --> 32:56.622 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the second most repeated command in the Scriptures is to remember. 32:57.322 --> 33:08.945 [SPEAKER_01]: There's always this moment of remembering what God has done, whether it's four David himself or other stories of old, he's remembering, and at the very end he gets to hope and to trust. 33:10.065 --> 33:13.946 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just love that that theme is in the Psalm over and over and over again. 33:17.818 --> 33:23.243 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a rhythm and a cadence in our own lives where that's what it needs to be. 33:23.263 --> 33:34.693 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think all of them are acts of trust, lamenting with God honestly is an act of trust, of trusting with trusting him with where you actually are. 33:34.973 --> 33:37.175 [SPEAKER_01]: Good, bad ugly, anything in between. 33:38.616 --> 33:45.442 [SPEAKER_01]: And then to an act of trust to remember, like, I am going to choose to do what the scriptures command me to do. 33:45.462 --> 33:47.223 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to remember what you have done. 33:47.824 --> 33:52.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if it's I'm going to remember how you were with me in the last horrible thing that happened. 33:53.008 --> 33:57.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to remember that I prayed that the doctor's office would call as an appointment and they did. 33:57.832 --> 33:58.512 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, these are 33:59.353 --> 34:01.455 [SPEAKER_01]: from my real life right now. 34:01.615 --> 34:08.620 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to choose to remember even the smallest things because I did pray about that and that and you did answer as small as it might be. 34:09.501 --> 34:12.863 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's an act of trust to say I choose to trust you. 34:13.003 --> 34:14.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I believe help my unbelief. 34:16.306 --> 34:24.613 [SPEAKER_01]: and I think somewhere along the way in our Christian culture, in our culture at large, we've lost the steps of that. 34:24.773 --> 34:31.038 [SPEAKER_01]: We just want the end and we want it to be authentic and then it's not authentic and it's like, well, what's wrong with me? 34:31.418 --> 34:32.279 [SPEAKER_01]: What's wrong with God? 34:34.040 --> 34:35.622 [SPEAKER_01]: But if we can live kind of in that 34:38.241 --> 34:44.248 [SPEAKER_01]: being able to acknowledge all three feels like every time trust gets easier to access. 34:44.328 --> 34:46.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Hope gets a little bit easier to access. 34:47.332 --> 34:53.479 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I'm not being honest and just lingering there with God, I'd get cynical. 34:53.719 --> 34:57.444 [SPEAKER_01]: I get I

despair and despair is a really 34:57.844 --> 34:59.585 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you just, you just spirit easy, too. 34:59.605 --> 34:59.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:59.825 --> 35:00.406 [SPEAKER_00]: Meaning like. 35:00.426 --> 35:01.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Especially right now. 35:01.206 --> 35:06.129 [SPEAKER_00]: You immediately, everything doesn't just get bad, it gets the worst. 35:07.070 --> 35:09.271 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's because of a lot of disappointment. 35:09.471 --> 35:21.859 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, I say that both with, you know, I hope to actually say that with graciousness of like, you just spirit quick because I think you have more reason than most to despair really quickly. 35:21.939 --> 35:26.082 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing I was going to add to this particular responses, 35:28.804 --> 35:34.146 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just, you're talking about the disappointment over and over and over and over and obviously you're talking about an answered prayer. 35:34.326 --> 35:37.768 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing I would like to mention though, an answered prayer is a very interesting topic. 35:38.348 --> 35:48.492 [SPEAKER_00]: You are not entitled to the life that you imagined you would have and what's so interesting is the more you walk with Jesus, you realize he does want to give you 35:49.832 --> 35:50.352 [SPEAKER_00]: Good life. 35:51.413 --> 35:52.873 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's rooted in reality. 35:53.473 --> 35:59.355 [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus was always trying to bring people back to reality, like basically life as it really is. 35:59.395 --> 36:08.637 [SPEAKER_00]: The kingdom of heaven helps reveal that God actually is a real and he does move in people's lives and he wants to have people operating in reality. 36:09.277 --> 36:20.782 [SPEAKER_00]: problem is that we oftentimes are living in these worlds that we have become the center of, and you think that God is obligated, you are entitled to have God respond in a very particular way. 36:21.262 --> 36:22.842 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it even sounds harsh to say that. 36:22.862 --> 36:23.623 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean it to be harsh. 36:23.643 --> 36:23.883 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, 36:24.423 --> 36:28.644 [SPEAKER_00]: we have got to wake up to the reality that that's not how things actually work. 36:28.664 --> 36:30.425 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many reasons God answers prayer. 36:30.845 --> 36:34.987 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many laws and rules that he's already put into place that he's not going to dishonor. 36:35.387 --> 36:39.888 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the book Unanswered Prayer by Pete Gray. 36:39.948 --> 36:40.869 [SPEAKER_00]: Just great book. 36:40.929 --> 36:46.771 [SPEAKER_00]: Just talks about if you pray that if you're I love this this analogy is one of my favorites. 36:47.491 --> 36:51.972 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're in a plane and you're going down and you pray God would you just turn off gravity 36:54.373 --> 36:58.436 [SPEAKER_00]: So he saved these 200 people in this plane, which are worthy souls

to be saved. 36:58.956 --> 37:03.400 [SPEAKER_00]: But by turning off gravity for even 30 seconds, it would destroy most of the world. 37:04.300 --> 37:05.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Different parts of the world. 37:05.701 --> 37:08.784 [SPEAKER_00]: You just think about this logically for a minute and you realize there's things that 37:09.524 --> 37:11.326 [SPEAKER_00]: that God has put certain limits on. 37:11.346 --> 37:14.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, can He overdo those at any moment? 37:14.369 --> 37:15.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, and sometimes He does. 37:16.371 --> 37:23.998 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we ask for healing as an example, we usually have a very clear expectation of what we mean by that, and it hasn't been defined. 37:24.178 --> 37:28.662 [SPEAKER_00]: So most of the time when I'm praying healing, I'm praying that God takes away all the pain immediately. 37:29.403 --> 37:41.992 [SPEAKER_00]: What if he's like, I'm going to take this pain away gradually and I'm going to use medical professionals and I'm going to take the journey to help not only bring me glory, but also if you so choose to help let it form you. 37:44.267 --> 37:48.369 [SPEAKER_00]: These are things that, like, we just, often times, myself especially, like, we'll just miss. 37:48.409 --> 37:54.433 [SPEAKER_00]: And so on the topic of my answer, prayer, it's just to simply say, like, he is God, you're not. 37:55.193 --> 37:59.776 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm gonna bank on anything, I'm gonna bank on God being real and that prayer works. 38:00.476 --> 38:03.578 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't always work the way I want it, how I want it, but I'm gonna keep asking. 38:04.798 --> 38:07.440 [SPEAKER_00]: Psalm 31, 131, says this. 38:07.980 --> 38:10.902 [SPEAKER_00]: The title of this song, by the way, is childlike trust in the Lord. 38:12.022 --> 38:26.197 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is honestly what I think this kind of posture needs to be, but it's Lord my heart is not proud Nor my eyes hotty this idea that you don't know everything Nor do I involve myself in great matters or things too difficult for me? 38:26.277 --> 38:31.082 [SPEAKER_00]: So just think about that there are things in this world that you will just never understand don't 38:32.163 --> 38:34.084 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't involve yourself in things like that. 38:34.204 --> 38:35.765 [SPEAKER_00]: There are certain things that are God's and not yours. 38:36.245 --> 38:40.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Surely I've calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child resting with its mother. 38:40.728 --> 38:47.732 [SPEAKER_00]: My soul is like a weaned child within me, and that in the amplified Bible says, composed and freed from discontent. 38:49.393 --> 38:58.158 [SPEAKER_00]: When your soul can trust that God has holding you in the unanswered prayer, you can be composed and you can be freed from discontent. 38:58.632 --> 39:09.255 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're not entitled to the lives that we imagined, and it's okay to remember that God's in charge we're not, but most

of our life is like little mini invitations to them. 39:09.375 --> 39:11.416 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a big topic. 39:11.676 --> 39:12.656 [SPEAKER_00]: We're still wrestling with it. 39:12.696 --> 39:14.177 [SPEAKER_00]: We have not in any way arrived. 39:14.777 --> 39:18.418 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that you ever do, but I do think that 39:20.542 --> 39:21.784 [SPEAKER_01]: it's there's a building effect. 39:23.426 --> 39:35.542 [SPEAKER_01]: When you've gone through really hard things and another hard thing comes there's a lot more that you can remember and fall back on and it does build over time and just to add to what you said about. 39:36.723 --> 39:37.504 [SPEAKER_01]: healing. 39:37.524 --> 39:39.747 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have such a narrow view of what that looks like. 39:40.628 --> 39:53.063 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, our greatest cry of all of our prayers and hearts this last year would be the God would heal the excruciating pain because it has stopped our life completely. 39:54.163 --> 39:56.944 [SPEAKER_01]: And he still hasn't, and we're still praying. 39:56.964 --> 40:04.747 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually felt like he asked me to pray specifically for my own healing every day, because I had kind of stopped because it's been so long. 40:05.667 --> 40:08.868 [SPEAKER_01]: But he has healed and is healing. 40:09.829 --> 40:12.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Things in such the deep recesses of my heart. 40:14.310 --> 40:21.292 [SPEAKER_01]: that I don't know how else, I mean, I'm not saying that God did this on purpose, I don't, I don't know. 40:21.412 --> 40:31.456 [SPEAKER_01]: There's mystery around that of what is just living in a broken world, what is the enemy, what are things that's God's allowing, I don't know, and I'm actually very okay with the mystery. 40:32.136 --> 40:54.142 [SPEAKER_01]: But what I can say is that even in this year, God is, I feel, this is going to sound strange to say, but I feel more at peace in my soul, more at peace just being in myself than I ever have, while also having like a turmoil around the pain and wanting it to stop. 40:54.982 --> 41:03.668 [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like there's all sorts of things that have just been so much easier to let go of, things I need it to let go of. 41:04.609 --> 41:06.070 [SPEAKER_01]: And so God has been healing. 41:06.690 --> 41:09.712 [SPEAKER_01]: He just hasn't physically healed me yet. 41:11.033 --> 41:11.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 41:11.433 --> 41:16.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can, I mean, this is where God's given us this beautiful thing called an imagination. 41:17.077 --> 41:22.621 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can dream of the worlds and the answered prayers and what it would be like, and God, I will keep it like you've heard so many folks. 41:22.641 --> 41:23.681 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll do whatever you want. 41:23.701 --> 41:24.742 [SPEAKER_00]: I can imagine this future. 41:25.943 --> 41:27.464 [SPEAKER_00]: I was writing this morning and wrote a sentence. 41:27.744 --> 41:37.471 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this has happened to you before, but you write a sentence and you go, whoa, like you write a sentence and you didn't realize it was as powerful as it was and you're like, oh, there, there feels like there was some divine 41:40.753 --> 41:45.477 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it was, so this happened, it was writing on this exact topic, and it was interesting. 41:46.358 --> 41:49.140 [SPEAKER_00]: I just simply wrote, and then I wrote it, and then it stopped me. 41:50.902 --> 41:57.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagination is a true gift from God, but imagination without a governor in reality can do unrepairable damage. 42:00.410 --> 42:04.073 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagination without a governor, without somebody to put it within its frame, 42:06.285 --> 42:06.805 [SPEAKER_00]: in reality. 42:06.846 --> 42:09.387 [SPEAKER_00]: It can do some really terrible damage. 42:09.608 --> 42:22.197 [SPEAKER_00]: People walk away from God, people walk away from relationships, people destroy their lives because the imagination that they had or the thing that they thought should be or ought to be hasn't happened in that way. 42:22.978 --> 42:26.140 [SPEAKER_00]: And it can do some really crazy unreparable damage. 42:26.420 --> 42:27.801 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's been my experience. 42:27.901 --> 42:34.446 [SPEAKER_00]: So just remember the spirit is inviting you to live within reality as it truly is and that means 42:35.287 --> 42:39.588 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't always get your way, and we're sitting, and I can't even say this enough. 42:39.688 --> 42:43.870 [SPEAKER_00]: We are sitting in this in every way that you could be right now. 42:44.330 --> 42:49.852 [SPEAKER_00]: So many parts of our life are these wide, wide, like, please heal, please have a compassion. 42:49.892 --> 42:52.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would you not, like, all of that stuff? 42:52.272 --> 42:57.174 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're saying this simply from a place of like, sincere struggle even right now. 42:58.974 --> 43:00.055 [SPEAKER_00]: So one more question. 43:00.075 --> 43:00.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see one more. 43:02.276 --> 43:03.256 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about mentorship. 43:03.916 --> 43:11.127 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people on this, a lot of people that follow the show, you talk about the idea of people pouring into them, we're all about it. 43:11.808 --> 43:15.233 [SPEAKER_00]: But someone's asking the question, what is the value of mentorship? 43:15.734 --> 43:18.398 [SPEAKER_00]: How can I intentionally pursue it across generations? 43:19.279 --> 43:29.866 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this really matters and I want you to answer, I have just a quick story that I think maybe illustrates this, the best it's very brief, but I cannot actually have two stories. 43:30.326 --> 43:44.936 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot say enough of having people who are older, wiser, more experienced than you, that you're pulling back to the other question and pulling models from asking the deep questions of

life who love Jesus and you want to emulate. 43:46.076 --> 43:52.658 [SPEAKER_00]: It is something that takes you from wherever you're at to just to the moon. 43:52.798 --> 43:54.338 [SPEAKER_00]: It is such a helpful thing. 43:54.358 --> 43:57.679 [SPEAKER_00]: I think God uses those people, but just practically guiding you in wisdom. 43:57.739 --> 44:01.661 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot, like that value for me has been huge to just quick stories. 44:02.361 --> 44:05.041 [SPEAKER_00]: I was driving in my car. 44:05.141 --> 44:06.482 [SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to a podcast. 44:07.002 --> 44:07.822 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a guest. 44:08.082 --> 44:08.982 [SPEAKER_00]: I had not heard of him yet. 44:09.363 --> 44:10.343 [SPEAKER_00]: His name was Jerry Sitzer. 44:11.343 --> 44:14.444 [SPEAKER_00]: He was talking about this crazy tragedy of his life. 44:14.964 --> 44:20.625 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the first person I talked to or that I'd heard talk about tragedy and he had just a crazy tragedy. 44:20.645 --> 44:27.887 [SPEAKER_00]: Lost his wife, his mom and his daughter, one of his four kids and four kids in a car accident all the same time he was in the car as well. 44:29.027 --> 44:35.531 [SPEAKER_00]: And talking about tragedy for 30 years prior in a way that I just had never heard. 44:36.151 --> 44:40.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Turns out at that very same moment, and I did not know this, you were reading his book. 44:41.134 --> 44:44.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Your mom was also at the same moment, reading his book. 44:45.712 --> 44:51.496 [SPEAKER_00]: I then go to email the guy because I'm like, I find his email on the internet. 44:51.516 --> 44:54.458 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't know who you are fully. 44:55.099 --> 44:57.180 [SPEAKER_00]: It turns out my wife and my mother are reading the book. 44:57.961 --> 45:01.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Nonetheless, I've been so thankful to hear your heart on this. 45:01.904 --> 45:04.986 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know if you could ever set up a call. 45:05.026 --> 45:05.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is crazy. 45:05.887 --> 45:07.188 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like Hail Mary's stuff. 45:08.546 --> 45:13.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I throw this home Hail Mary out, turn it like, I don't know how he made this connection. 45:13.750 --> 45:26.218 [SPEAKER_00]: So I never mentioned that we were connected with John Mark, um, but he had realized as I sent the email that we, that he's my brother in law as your brother, and he emails back, oh, great to hear from you, and I don't know if he was actually with John Mark when he got the email. 45:26.458 --> 45:27.399 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't, I don't know. 45:28.039 --> 45:30.580 [SPEAKER_00]: But he said, it was actually a little more class week in this whole situation. 45:30.800 --> 45:33.941 [SPEAKER_00]: And so turns out we were not too far removed from one another. 45:34.521 --> 45:37.802 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of a meeting, we're like, then you and I was like, we're going to meet with them. 45:37.842 --> 45:40.143 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if we did a podcast with them? 45:40.163 --> 45:41.784 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we drove out and we met with them. 45:42.504 --> 45:43.144 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, reach out. 45:43.244 --> 45:44.185 [SPEAKER_00]: Do anything you can. 45:44.245 --> 45:45.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Another one is I was at this event. 45:45.565 --> 45:48.586 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then he became a friend and I was in somebody's tent. 45:48.746 --> 45:48.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 45:49.346 --> 45:49.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 45:49.766 --> 45:51.767 [SPEAKER_00]: Second one is I was just at this event. 45:52.507 --> 45:54.588 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a guy who's been leading this organization since just 27. 45:54.608 --> 45:55.368 [SPEAKER_00]: He's maybe 81 or 82 now. 45:57.789 --> 46:05.093 [SPEAKER_00]: And the organization has gone from like, he took it over when it's a $29 million year organization, which is pretty big situation. 46:05.573 --> 46:08.174 [SPEAKER_00]: To now like a $4 billion year organization. 46:09.195 --> 46:12.376 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm talking to this very sweet, very calm old guy. 46:14.337 --> 46:20.525 [SPEAKER_00]: who obviously has figured out some stuff about leadership and so I just immediately asked him I said, I don't know if you ever have time, I will find you. 46:20.665 --> 46:24.690 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll show up if it's like coffee here on a Saturday and I need to fly here. 46:25.251 --> 46:29.116 [SPEAKER_00]: Please, if you'll give me any time, um, I'd be happy to take it. 46:29.256 --> 46:30.718 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and he's like, oh, absolutely. 46:30.738 --> 46:31.559 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll, we'll, we'll send it back. 46:31.599 --> 46:32.340 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to fly here. 46:34.420 --> 46:40.402 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just to say, make yourself so available for the people that you see that are following Jesus that are doing good in the world that you want to learn from. 46:41.162 --> 46:48.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Make time energy, you know, money if it takes that within reason, be wise, but make yourself available. 46:48.584 --> 46:51.444 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot tell you how that has just changed my life in so many ways. 46:52.085 --> 47:00.927 [SPEAKER_00]: But from your vantage point, honey, as a mom, as a wife, as a worker, I mean, you have a job, you're doing this work, you're, you know, we work together. 47:02.300 --> 47:12.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's much harder for women to find mentors and find the space to be able to actually spend time with them. 47:12.825 --> 47:13.345 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think. 47:14.737 --> 47:23.687 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, my, our generation when we were growing up mentorship was a lot more formalized, churches had mentorship programs. 47:23.867 --> 47:30.374 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very normal for an older woman to be discipling a younger woman and older man to be discipling a younger man. 47:30.434 --> 47:31.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was very normal. 47:31.715 --> 47:32.456

[SPEAKER_00]: It's also biblical. 47:32.596 --> 47:33.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, exactly. 47:33.317 --> 47:36.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's a, it's a lost art. 47:36.640 --> 47:43.562 [SPEAKER_01]: in the search currently, and there's obviously a wider disconnect between generations right now. 47:43.602 --> 47:54.826 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about that at great length on podcast as well, but I think right now, in our time, we have to shed the idea of it being formalized because it's not going to happen. 47:55.026 --> 47:59.047 [SPEAKER_01]: If we, I mean, it does happen sometimes, but it's less likely to happen. 47:59.167 --> 48:02.848 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking for, I'm hope that this older woman reaches out to me, 48:03.469 --> 48:10.038 [SPEAKER_01]: And says she would love to mentor me and I'm hope that it works with the baby's nap schedule and that you know what I mean? 48:10.058 --> 48:17.509 [SPEAKER_01]: And to your point of what you're saying of You're just being willing to ask any of these people that you're like there's something I could learn from you 48:19.011 --> 48:23.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you go and talk to those people, you have a list of questions you're hoping to ask them. 48:23.555 --> 48:27.819 [SPEAKER_01]: Not just this endless conversation where hopefully that person can be born. 48:28.139 --> 48:30.101 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's time for me to disciple you now. 48:31.282 --> 48:33.404 [SPEAKER_01]: And even we look at the life of Jesus. 48:34.365 --> 48:44.169 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't want to week at 9 a.m. at Starbucks meet with Peter, like he's probably going to be Starbucks anyway, although I am still totally fine with. 48:44.209 --> 48:45.169 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you are. 48:45.189 --> 48:48.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Scarlett calls us her and I Starbucks girlies, and I'm fine with it. 48:48.630 --> 48:50.911 [SPEAKER_00]: I have so many girls in my life, so many daughters. 48:51.211 --> 48:52.673 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, you get girly drinks, it's okay. 48:52.873 --> 48:53.894 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 48:53.954 --> 48:54.114 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 48:56.056 --> 48:56.697 [SPEAKER_00]: I do. 48:56.717 --> 48:57.278 [SPEAKER_00]: Do they give you? 48:57.358 --> 48:57.918 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope so. 48:57.999 --> 49:05.567 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually is kind of funny because sometimes when we'll travel with people, they get like our coffee orders and I'm the one with black coffee and you're with the one with the white mug. 49:06.946 --> 49:07.727 [SPEAKER_00]: like give me. 49:07.787 --> 49:09.748 [SPEAKER_01]: I would have thought it would be the opposite. 49:09.868 --> 49:11.349 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a trashy palette. 49:11.429 --> 49:13.931 [SPEAKER_00]: So at the end of the day, I like the simple things. 49:14.011 --> 49:14.552 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't. 49:14.692 --> 49:18.034 [SPEAKER_01]: And Vietnam though, traveling, that like, it's my favorite thing about it. 49:18.135 --> 49:19.736 [SPEAKER_01]: You can totally drink it. 49:19.916

--> 49:21.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas it just makes me feel sick. 49:22.037 --> 49:22.798 [SPEAKER_01]: I just can't. 49:22.818 --> 49:23.499 [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell. 49:23.939 --> 49:25.300 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's that it doesn't. 49:25.600 --> 49:29.463 [SPEAKER_00]: It does actually bring me the same amount of joy as third wave coffee would. 49:30.244 --> 49:31.445 [SPEAKER_00]: And for that, I'm grateful. 49:31.545 --> 49:32.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that that's not everyone's story. 49:32.946 --> 49:33.646 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, keep going. 49:33.706 --> 49:34.407 [SPEAKER_00]: We're saying other things. 49:35.480 --> 49:45.906 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I think like that we have to be willing to ask, but I also think we have to be willing for it to look different, like I'm thinking of Sally, who I would call my mentor and my friend. 49:46.867 --> 49:50.449 [SPEAKER_01]: I spend very little time with Sally right now because I have very little time. 49:51.329 --> 49:53.231 [SPEAKER_01]: but Sally, because she's wonderful. 49:53.331 --> 49:54.032 [SPEAKER_01]: I love you, Sally. 49:55.013 --> 50:04.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Voice memos me usually on Mondays and Fridays because those are the days that she has off and she voice memos to check in and almost always will leave a scripture. 50:04.384 --> 50:11.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Something she was reading in her quiet time, something she was thinking about me, that's mentorship and just being in life. 50:12.733 --> 50:16.757 [SPEAKER_01]: in whatever ways we can, right now it's mostly over voice memo. 50:17.798 --> 50:20.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Books, we can be mentored by books. 50:21.581 --> 50:25.225 [SPEAKER_01]: I wise people who have gone before us who are teaching us things. 50:25.805 --> 50:29.428 [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, in an ideal situation, we absolutely need both. 50:29.689 --> 50:30.830 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to be reading. 50:31.450 --> 50:38.718 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to be learning, we need to be in the scriptures being mentored by all of that, and we need people in our actual lives. 50:39.179 --> 50:43.824 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard when people ask us like specific parenting advice about their kid. 50:44.705 --> 50:45.626 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we are not. 50:46.547 --> 51:01.246 [SPEAKER_01]: in their house, seeing their kid and how all the interactions are going on in a place where we may be could give some advice because we've walked through that stage several times or like you do need people in your life like that. 51:01.486 --> 51:04.870 [SPEAKER_01]: But obviously we know that that's not always accessible because 51:05.711 --> 51:08.813 [SPEAKER_01]: the older generation is kind of absent right now. 51:09.453 --> 51:12.374 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it has to look like a mixture. 51:12.394 --> 51:22.099 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you have to be willing to do things that are maybe inconvenient, like doing a community group, even if you're not sure you connect with all the people. 51:22.339 --> 51:24.880 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have lots of thoughts and feelings about community group. 51:25.341 --> 51:31.744 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't always work in the idealized way that the church paints the picture of, but some of them actually really do. 51:32.444 --> 51:33.265 [SPEAKER_01]: So try some. 51:33.585 --> 51:36.087 [SPEAKER_01]: See if that works for your family and don't go three times. 51:36.928 --> 51:37.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Go for six months. 51:39.030 --> 51:40.692 [SPEAKER_01]: And you might find mentors there. 51:40.852 --> 51:47.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And mentors don't always have to be gray-haired and in a way older stage than you. 51:47.478 --> 51:50.781 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they're just parents who are one step ahead of you. 51:51.261 --> 51:52.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you've got a 10-year-old. 51:53.223 --> 51:56.345 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe you've got a 10-year-old, but they've got a 16-year-old. 51:56.845 --> 52:01.688 [SPEAKER_01]: They have already gone through the hormones that are happening at 10 and are going to continue to happen. 52:02.208 --> 52:06.730 [SPEAKER_01]: And you will see their 16-year-old and you're like, I like the relationship they have. 52:07.351 --> 52:08.571 [SPEAKER_01]: He seems like a really good kid. 52:08.952 --> 52:11.993 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to pick their brain about like, what do I need to know right now? 52:12.854 --> 52:13.734 [SPEAKER_01]: That's mentorship. 52:17.456 --> 52:20.977 [SPEAKER_01]: and it usually requires us doing some work and that's hard. 52:21.017 --> 52:28.538 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a grief to that when you're an overwhelmed parent, you want people to see you and want to offer that. 52:30.078 --> 52:38.760 [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think our generation, again, we've talked about this before, we've not done a good job of honoring what the older generation has to offer. 52:39.420 --> 52:43.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if they don't speak the same language as us and maybe we have to filter through 52:45.757 --> 52:49.318 [SPEAKER_01]: they still have a lot of wisdom to offer because they've lived a lot of life. 52:50.198 --> 52:56.799 [SPEAKER_01]: And so just being willing to even see past some of the generational disconnect is also really helpful. 52:57.219 --> 52:57.499 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 52:58.559 --> 53:00.280 [SPEAKER_00]: So these are questions. 53:00.320 --> 53:00.820 [SPEAKER_00]: You asked them. 53:00.960 --> 53:02.100 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just responding to them. 53:02.200 --> 53:03.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for sending them. 53:03.140 --> 53:04.681 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have others, please email. 53:05.181 --> 53:09.422 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can send a one minute voice memo to hello at intentional parents.org. 53:09.742 --> 53:11.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, you can submit a question there. 53:11.222 --> 53:11.342 [SPEAKER_00]: But 53:12.003 --> 53:13.206 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll keep doing this. 53:13.648 --> 53:17.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Please check out our website for any questions that you might have or things coming up. 53:17.721 --> 53:18.383 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next week.