The HiFi Five Episode 35: Dynaudio Withdrawal and Distributor Life Today의 전체 녹취록

that. 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:06.560 They're just too many companies. 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:09.360 I don't understand how all these companies can stay in business. 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:13.759 And um shrinking demand, and that is true in the North American market. 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:19.839 Uh, many companies have told me that, um, particularly those who do hi-fi and custom install. 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:23.680 Custom install is big business for a lot of the big companies, very big business. 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:24.959 So you got too many companies. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.319 I've said if we have half the amount of speaker companies, we'd still have four times too many. 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:32.000 And a shrinking demand. 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:43.519 Now, when you say shrinking demand, is that report to us based on anecdotal evidence of speaking with various manufacturers, or is that some industry-wide statistical analysis we can all look at? 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:52.959 I don't think we can all look at, but I'll tell you this if you go to the company's CI, they'll say we're in business because of CI in in North America, particularly the United States. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:54.000 What's CI? 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:55.199 Custom install. 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:58.720 So in-the-house, you know, that type of all-in-the-house type thing. 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:29.920 Okay, I think that's right on point, uh, and the fact that these companies are going back uh home and re-entrenching is uh finding where they have uh uh a cost advantage uh uh uh versus uh you know having to export at a lower margins and uh having to compete like with a saturated uh saturated market like uh uh I mean it's clear. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:36.959 I mean, if you look back 20 years, the amount of products and the amount of offerings out there is just uh astounding. 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:39.439 Uh how it has multiplied. 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:52.160 I think I think the bigger companies have are gonna have more trouble than the smaller companies because small companies can withstand you know the a turn down in the market. 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:56.959 The bigger companies, you know, they have to move more product to stay in business, you know. 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:01.600 And I think the dealer relationship with the distributor is really important. 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.959 You know, you can't just have a lot of dealers that aren't that aren't you know doing anything. 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.600 You have to make sure that your dealers are active. 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:22.639 You know, whether they're big or or or small companies, and I'm applying to myself as a small company, is whether you have the capital to weather uh you know the ups and downs of market. 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:35.920 And the fact is, is a lot of us don't have the deep pockets, don't have the uh capital backing to withstand uh a big swing on and on on the audio market. 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:52.079 Briefly going back to what Doug said about custom install, um I've through the years I've talked with a couple major dealers who counterintuitively um had record years during the pandemic. 00:07:52.560 --> 00:08:06.319 They were sending out people and doing custom jobs in their houses, and uh generally CI has been a fairly small percentage of their business, but record years. 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:08.000 Topic three. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:14.160 Dynadio cited quote, economic challenges and market uncertainty. 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:16.720 What do you think they were referring to, Bill, exactly? 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:20.800 What? 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:21.519 Yeah. 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:22.959 Oh sorry. 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:24.319 Wake up, Bill. 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.839 Um well tariffs are certainly part of it. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:37.840 Um, and again, I hate to keep banging on this drum, but uh in the last five years, shipping costs have just really skyrocketed. 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:45.840 And uh if you're doing onesies, twosies to the United States, um, it's almost prohibitive. 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:53.519 Somebody's doing pallet loads, if they're doing seafreight, that's another story, but it's still very expensive. 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:59.200 Three companies, I mean, we we're we're we're at their mercy. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.799 We just have uh UPS FedEx and uh DHL. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.639 There is no no options, no competition. 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:14.799 So uh uh Hiram, you think that's what they mean by economic challenges and market uncertainty? 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.080 Are you agreeing with Bill that is uh shipping is a big shipping in tariffs, basically? 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:34.240 Well, well, certainly, as Bill says, you know, that that that's part of it, but uh certainly is when you're faced with uh uh uh you know to place your products outside your country, you're you're faced with these uh climbing costs. 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:44.480 Not to mention when when something gets damaged or it uh it's it shows up late, uh everything else that comes with that. 00:09:44.639 --> 00:10:08.720 So I think that companies are just moving to uh to a space where they can operate more effectively, they can uh uh keep down uh their costs, uh protect their margins, and uh coming to the United States is not uh probably the best thing that they can do or the best deployment of their uh uh capabilities. 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.840 Doug, what do you think um Diana do you meant by economic challenges and market uncertainty? 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:15.600 I think I can only guess. 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:20.159 I mean, I I don't know, but uh market uncertainties. 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:25.600 Um, I would say that could mean the declining hi-fi market, that sort of thing, too many companies. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.759 It's an uncertain market to go into and the economic challenges too. 00:10:29.840 -->

00:10:33.200 I mean, you've got everything from the tariffs to, like they said, the shipping. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.159 There's just a lot of uncertainties. 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:43.919 And and um, you know, we've had podcasts where people have talked about uh manufacturers have talked about the tariffs and the whole changing of the tariffs and stuff. 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:51.120 We can deal with one thing, but when it changes by the week or by the day or by the hour, this becomes very uncertain. 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:55.840 And I think most people agree uncertainty is not a good thing for business. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:56.879 Sure. 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.759 Let's talk about let's talk about the go ahead. 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.000 Sorry if I could interject just for a sec. 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:10.080 Um also you've seen the the statistics that consumer confidence is uh plummeting day by day. 00:11:10.480 --> 00:11:11.440 That's not gonna help. 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.200 People are hanging on to their money. 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:30.159 Uh, and I'm I'm uh guessing, again, this is just a wild guess, that uh a Danish company owned by Chinese is not gonna be real happy about any political pressures. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:33.600 So let's talk about tariffs. 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.799 Um, Brian, how have tariffs affected your business? 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:42.799 You're bringing in German physics uh from Germany, you're bringing in ancient audio from uh Poland. 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.279 How have tariffs affected your business? 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:47.279 Yeah, quite a bit. 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.919 I mean, it's it's not easy, you know. 00:11:50.080 --> 00:12:00.879 You uh the dealers are are wanting those nice margins, you know, they're wanting you know shipping included, they're they're you know, they're always wanting more and more. 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:06.879 So, you know, someone has to take the hit, and it's usually me and the and the manufacturer. 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:12.720 Uh so if they're willing to work with me, then I can you know I can work things out. 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:17.039 Um, you know, and I try to keep my overhead down, that helps. 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.440 But uh yeah, it's it's definitely affected, you know. 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:31.120 Um I I can say that uh like like Doug said, it's it's changing every week, so you you never know what's gonna happen. 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:36.320 We got tariffs this week, next week they're trying to get rid of them, and then they're back, you know. 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:42.639 So you you have to you have to try to work with all these different obstacles. 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:45.200 So yeah, not not great. 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.720 How Hiram, how have you been dealing with the tariffs? 00:12:49.440 --> 00:13:01.600 Uh the only way I can, uh you just have to uh slowly but uh surely pass that cost over to over to the uh dealers. 00:13:01.840

--> 00:13:12.320 But uh the fact that they were talking about uh going back to the financial economic issues that uh the exporter have. 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:27.200 On top of exporting, anybody that's been uh in the exporting business knows that it is a headache, it is, but then on top of your ad, all of a sudden your product is 20% more expensive. 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:32.240 Uh abroad, that's gonna take a bike on the volume. 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:33.679 You know, that's that's a fact. 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:35.919 That's that that that's gonna happen. 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:40.399 On top of dwindling your volume, you're gonna dwindling your your margin. 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:47.360 Um I I know I've taken it, so of course. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:56.960 Uh it's very difficult to tell somebody now all of a sudden something that was uh something that was a hundred dollars, now it's$120. 00:13:57.519 --> 00:14:11.279 It's uh it's it is what it is, but uh we just have to deal with it and and and forge on uh I think I think one of the things is that everybody seems to be in the same boat. 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:17.279 So, you know, if I'm raising my prices, you know, he's raising his, the other guy's raising his. 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:25.120 And I think that the products that are made in the US, they're gonna raise their prices when they see everybody else raising them. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.919 You know what I mean? 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.320 So it's kind of it kind of all boats rise, you know. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:43.039 With it, I I think that um it's like with a car market, you know, uh you're bringing in the BMWs and then the Cadillacs go up in price, you know, even though they don't have that that tariff. 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:47.679 Uh Doug, why do you think uh Dynaudio wrote that so cryptically? 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:50.720 I mean, it would have been perfectly easy for them to say tariffs are one of the reasons. 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.000 Why didn't they just say it? 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:54.799 You know, I've talked to a lot of people, nobody knows for sure. 00:14:54.879 --> 00:15:02.799 And I I know people at Dynaudio, and and they don't they don't say, but I think it wasn't as cryptic as it was broad, I think. 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.360 And I think that when you ask anybody, it's like, yeah, it could be all those reasons combined. 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.679 When you just look at the whole thing, um, I've got good knowledge of Dyne Audio. 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.519 I I um been to the main factory a few times in Denmark. 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:18.000 And last year I was in China. 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:30.000 If you look up a video called um uh Visa Pan and Factory Robots, we were the first soundstage was to go to the factory that makes the Dyne Audio car drivers, 5 million a year. 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.080 They're owned by GoreTech. 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.840 Uh the subsidiary that runs Dyne Audio is called Gordina. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:41.440 It's a massive company, 65,000 people in state-of-the-art facilities. 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:51.919 And the reason it's called robot factories is because the factory that makes the dyne audio drivers for cars 5 million a year, that has a lot of robots running around. 00:15:52.080 --> 00:16:03.279 They actually brought more people in to make sure everything was just good and we had people to film, but there were only 15 people in there in a giant factory making five million drivers a year. 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:15.919 So it's a giant company, well funded, and they make uh Agore Tech makes a lot of other products, not Hi-Fi, but a lot of other uh consumer electronics for big companies. 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.840 And so I think it could be broad. 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.480 They look at, hey, look what's happening here. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.759 We can focus on Europe and um Asia, and those are growth markets. 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:38.480 If we look at, I remember late Charles Hansen of Air said to me 10 years ago, I don't know if the shows build the companies, but the or the companies build the shows, but everything's happening in Europe. 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.720 High-end Warsaw, right? 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:43.360 Now you look at the Asian show, there was just a Singapore show. 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:50.159 You look at the ones that are happening in China, you look at the ones that are happening in Thailand, and then Warsaw and now Vienna. 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:57.440 All this stuff's happening in Europe and Asia, and many of the really high-end companies are banking on Asia. 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:02.240 You know, many really high-end um American companies are banking on Asia. 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:08.400 So there is good reason we focus on Europe more than anything. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:12.480 You know, you just explained uh you just explained why. 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:19.440 You know, it's a big company, they have big uh uh uh uh mass production. 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:36.559 United States is just getting smaller at at uh at a smaller margins, they just want to focus uh on on things that are uh that are growing and that uh give them a better margin. 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:39.279 I mean that's what I would do if I was that big. 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.920 I wouldn't be wasting my time in a yeah, and it's not like uh Dynadios having trouble. 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:53.759 Right after Vienna, they brought a bunch of European um press to Copenhagen to show their new flagship store in Copenhagen, they opened one right there. 00:17:54.160 --> 00:18:00.319 So anyone's guess, but they could have looked at the United States, all this, we're not making up. 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.519 And I and I'm from Canada, by the way, and Canada's not a market. 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:19.039 Once I explained the geography of Canada, and we're under four under 40 million people spread in a bigger

land mass than the United States, and there are three cities that really matter, and um, two of them are 4,000 kilometers apart, 2,800 miles. 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:21.359 Um, Canada doesn't count. 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:23.759 Bill, what do you think? 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.039 What do you suspect was the role of tariffs in Dynadios decision? 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:30.960 I don't have any numbers. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:34.480 I don't have any numbers about any of their business. 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.000 Um, and of course, we're not gonna get numbers. 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.079 I would suspect it's contributory, but not the only reason. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.039 And beyond that, I don't know what to say. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.519 Topic five, who actually pays the tariffs initially? 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:54.400 Do you as a distributor pay the tariff initially when you import the products? 00:18:54.480 --> 00:19:05.200 And then do you pass that on to your dealers or and the consumer ultimately pays because the dealer passes on your higher cost to the dealer and the dealer pass that on to the consumer? 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.119 What do you what's actually going on there? 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:13.519 Help us help the consumer watching this understand who's getting hit with those tariffs exactly. 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:14.799 Uh Brian? 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.160 Yeah, I say it's a it's an individual thing, you know. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.519 I I am paying that myself. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:28.720 Um, I'm trying to make it as easy for the dealers as I can to obtain the products. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.720 So I'm I'm paying the shipping, I'm paying the tariffs, I'm paying everything. 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:40.559 And um it just makes them feel more confident to buy, you know, when you say, Don't worry about it, I got it covered. 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.960 Uh, you know, and then they it it's it makes it easy. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.359 If I try to pass it to them, they're gonna they're they're gonna buy something else. 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.240 So that's kind of how I I do it. 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.039 Bill, what are you seeing when you talk to people? 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:57.599 Oh sorry? 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:06.559 Yes, what are you seeing when what who when in your experience, who do you think where does the the cost of the tariff eventually fold? 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:13.279 Is it is it distributed effectively among the distributor who passes a little along to the dealer who then passes a little on to the consumer? 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:14.960 Who do you think pays it in the reality? 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:17.839 Well, it's it's a domino effect, obviously. 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:30.400 And uh um, you know, I've I've talked to uh distributors who have held the line um just like uh we heard a second ago. 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:40.720 Um, and others immediately slapped it on, whether it was uh product that just came in or stuff they'd had sitting in the warehouse for a year. 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.640 So it's gonna get passed on. 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.839 That's that's obvious. 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:53.119 If it doesn't, um I would worry about the guys not passing it on putting themselves at risk. 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:55.039 Good point. 00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:00.400 Hiram, um, who do you absorb the tariff or do you pass it on to your dealers? 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.160 No, no, but uh I do I I cover everything just like buying. 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:11.519 Uh uh you gotta make that uh easy on on on the client. 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:23.200 The last thing a dealer in Alabama wants to do is you know mess around with all this stuff, and uh also agree with with with uh bills. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.319 Uh you have to pass that on. 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:33.839 I mean, you can eat up some of that difference some of the time, but you cannot eat all the difference all of the time. 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:38.400 At one point you're gonna have to to uh recoup that cost. 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:49.200 So uh what we've done, we just go set it up, change, and you know, we've had this balance back and forth, back and forth. 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:59.680 So what we decided is that we price the uh product as is and then just itemize the uh tariff so so the uh dealer knows exactly. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.720 Exactly how much uh how much of the cost is uh or the additional cost is down. 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.960 Doug, what do you hear from the dealers and distributors with whom you speak? 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:16.960 Oh, from what I can tell, you know, it's the distributors and then ultimately the consumers paying a higher price somehow, you know. 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:23.599 And um uh the the to get to bring up a company that really pisses me off outside of audio, Canon. 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:27.920 Uh Canon likes to um retain uh global pricing. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:33.359 So when the tariffs came on in the US, they raised the Canadian prices as well. 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.480 Okay, which really wasn't a great thing. 00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:41.759 And not all hi-fi companies, I should say something we did when the tariffs came on. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:42.480 We had a problem. 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.039 We used to default to American pricing for our reviews. 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.119 It was a good standard for around the world. 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:52.319 Somebody could read the American price and gauge roughly the thing around the world. 00:22:52.480 --> 00:23:02.960 Um, last spring, when all this uh uh late last spring, we said we're gonna publish four prices: US price, Canadian price, euro price, and pounds. 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:13.519 It gives a better indication, and some products are broadly similar around the world, but many are now more expensive in the US. 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:29.119 And to give you

an idea, I won't name the companies, but smaller companies, one in particular has a speaker that sells for$1,200 a pair, US roughly, around the world, but$1,800 in the US. 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:36.240 And it makes it makes reviewing tough because it's not really competitive at$1,800, but it's quite competitive at$1,200. 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:41.440 And that's happened a number of times where they said, okay, we're gonna raise just the American price. 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:53.599 And so I would think that the American consumer is ultimately paying a higher price because even if the dealer is absorbing it like Bill, or the distributor is absorbing it, like Bill said, you got to worry if they're absorbing too much. 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:58.400 Ultimately, you do have to pass it somewhere to stay in business. 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:00.880 Uh let's take Fuzzy's question. 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:07.200 Fuzzy asks, did anyone get refunds once these tax increases were held to be illegal? 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.759 Uh Hiram, Brian, are you did you did you or anybody, did you get refunds? 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.200 Uh aware of anybody getting refunds? 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:26.799 It's really hard to get refunds because you have to, you know, you have to fill out all these forms and you have to you have to wait and wait and wait, and you don't know if you're ever gonna get them. 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:28.640 I haven't gotten anything yet. 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.440 Um, and I I don't know if I ever will. 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:35.839 You know, it's uh it's kind of a crapshoot, really. 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:46.240 Um and everybody's different, like uh with FedEx UPS or freight, it's everybody's got their own different way of trying to trying to do it. 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.039 Um, but I haven't seen anything yet. 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:52.640 Anybody else? 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:58.319 I put my paperwork, but uh let's see what happens. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.599 Topic six about manufacturers. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:08.640 Just out of curiosity, quickly, have you have any of you heard a manufacturer say, I can't deal with these UF tariffs? 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.839 I mean, other than Dynaudio, I can't deal with these UF tariffs. 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:13.359 I I just want to pull out of the U.S. 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:13.680 market. 00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:17.119 Has have manufacturers suggested that to you at all? 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.319 anybody? 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:25.839 No, but moving their manufacturing away from the United States has been has been in a conversation. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.079 Manufacturing in the United States? 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:37.119 What you know move moving moving away from the United States because uh, you know, it's too expensive to bring up products in. 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:47.279 Right, but does that suggest that well let me ask then have have any has any manufacturer suggested to you should I move my production to the United States to avoid the tariffs? 00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:48.640 I've heard that too. 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:50.079 I've heard both what you're saying. 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:55.200 I've heard manufacturers say maybe we should just pull out in the United States, maybe rethink that. 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:03.839 And I have heard some say, well, maybe we should do something in the United States, and ultimately the ones, and there were several, did nothing that kind of wait and see. 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:13.839 Or go to Canada because the tariffs are a little bit lower importing uh parts uh to Canada than importing it to the United States. 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:23.200 So to the extent that you're doing assembly, uh it's very easy for somebody to pick up and and and and and go across the border. 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:42.640 Yeah, and what uh I think Hiram's getting at too is um like aluminum, Canada is a huge aluminum producer, okay, and aluminum's used and stuff, and that's tariff going into the US, okay, which ultimately hurts the American um manufacturer because how do you manufacture when all this stuff went up in price, right? 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:44.400 It's a big confusing thing. 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:46.640 Bill, did you want to say something? 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.599 I don't even know where to start. 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:51.839 It's just a freaking mess all the way around. 00:26:51.920 --> 00:27:03.279 Like years ago, I I talked to a number of European manufacturers about whether or not they would consider having a facility in the US to produce products. 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:10.799 That's just uh I don't see that happening at all now, given the political climate, given the financial climate. 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:17.920 And it's just um, you know, the the market is, as we've all said, shrinking seemingly. 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:24.640 Um, and uh it would be a marginal investment at best, I would think. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:28.960 Yeah, the market's so it's such a small market. 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:43.119 I can't see uh any of these manufacturers wanting to spend the capital to to set up, you know, the cost of setup, unless it's a big enough company, they can they can make enough sales to cover that. 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.960 And I think what's seen is the United States is obviously a huge market. 00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:48.720 Like I said, Canada is not a huge market. 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:58.319 When I explain we're under 40 million people and we've got three cities that really matter, you know, that's we're we're under California, you know, uh alone. 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.920 But I think what happens is a hi-fi is not a big market. 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.519 So people see, oh, there's tremendous opportunity in the United States, but just like going uh American company going to Europe, that's not that easy either. 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:09.920 Right. 00:28:10.240 -->

00:28:20.079 I used to see in the past many American speaker companies, wow, that costs a lot in Europe, you know, once you get through dis uh shipping and distributor and all that type of thing. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:26.319 So it's any which way it's not easy to export and now import, right? 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.799 And you got all these costs involved, that sort of thing. 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:31.759 And it's really come to the light in the United States now. 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:33.920 Well, there's one other thing. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.880 The the dealers are largely saturated with product. 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:45.359 Um, speaker manufacturers generally have a favored amp manufacturer, and vice versa. 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.839 So that locks out a lot of products. 00:28:48.160 --> 00:29:01.279 Um, we're no longer in the days like we were back in the 70s and 80s, where somebody could uh start at their kitchen table and go to CES and come home with 50 dealers. 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:08.880 Um, that's uh exactly how uh PS Audio started, how Spike started. 00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:13.839 Spica had been selling speakers by the side of the road, for God's sake. 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.559 So those days are long gone. 00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:19.200 And I think the days are long gone too. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:25.839 I said, you know, back in the 90s, most companies, I hope we'll talk about this, are horrendous at marketing their products. 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.119 Horrendous. 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:34.319 Um, I deal with all a bunch of European companies, they think they're just gonna lob it to a distributor in the United States and oh, the world's gonna change. 00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:35.759 No, nothing's gonna happen. 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:37.519 Nobody knows who you are. 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.359 You haven't done anything to build your brand, and that's key. 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:48.240 Okay, and you go, you're gonna go to the United States, there's four times too many speaker companies, well, eight times too many speaker companies right now. 00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:52.640 Nobody knows your brand, and that distributor is not gonna build your brand. 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:54.160 You had to do that already. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.440 And and Hiram's nodding. 00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:56.240 Do you agree? 00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.160 Sure, yeah, absolutely. 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:02.079 So I'm like, you might want to rethink this and completely give up. 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.839 And believe me, I've had those conversations in the hallway at many shows. 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:13.039 You might want to really rethink this before you get a really good foothold, uh, you know, until you have a really good foothold where you are. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:21.279 It's gotten better over the years, though, but uh there's still a lot of that uh thinking going on. 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:24.720 Well, I would say that, you know, I think, and Bill can maybe go back. 00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:29.680 I think you know, marketing in the 90s meant going to CES and releasing a new product. 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:31.200 That was their marketing, right? 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.079 Oh, we got a new amp, and they sell a bazillion of them, right? 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:35.200 Can't remember how many. 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:45.759 John uh Dawson of uh RKAM told me they sold 60,000 between uh 74 and 77 or whenever RCAM of the of their first amplifier. 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:47.119 60,000. 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.160 Wow. 00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.359 That that does not happen. 00:30:52.640 --> 00:31:09.200 Well, if you look at old pictures of uh acoustic research or uh Garrard, you see just thousands and thousands of uh units being pushed out, and that just to my knowledge, that doesn't happen. 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:21.359 I think there are probably companies like Project or some Chinese companies that have the resources to do that, but whether or not it's it's worthwhile for them to do so, I don't have a clue. 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:37.119 And this goes back to one of the problems we've always had in the high-end audio industry, which is there's no data, there's no cooperation, there's no sharing of information unless it's on a casual, don't tell anybody I told you basis. 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:40.400 Like, I'll I'll be honest, I've been in this thing. 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:50.480 I would love to know how many million-dollar pair of speakers, like speakers that are million dollars a pair or close to how many get sold globally in a year, right? 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.000 You know, it depends on the company, but is it one pair? 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:56.720 Is it zero pair, or is it 20 pairs? 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.480 Certainly not 300 pairs, but nobody will tell you that. 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.000 But it but it but it you don't have to sum any of those. 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.920 No, that's that's what they all say, but that's kind of deceiving, you know. 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.319 I I said this on a on a previous live stream. 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:18.799 It was somebody from one of the companies said if you went to high-end in Munich or this year in Vienna, you would think this is one lucrative industry. 00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:25.759 Look at these booths, look at these companies, these are making millions of dollars a year because how else could they all be here? 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.480 They're on the they're all on the verge of bankruptcy. 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.359 And that's the truth, right? 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:32.960 This is the deceiving thing. 00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:34.799 There's some smoke and beers going on. 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:39.839 They got the guys come in with millions of dollars and and and then they go out broke. 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:58.160 Well, and it's uh it's hard to understand the ROI on some of these things, um, especially if

you're going halfway across the world and have to ship products that are the size of tombstones. 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:05.759 Um it's gonna be horrifically expensive, and the margins and markets are gonna be small. 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:09.119 It's uh it's hard to justify. 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.440 Well, that brings us to uh especially for Hiram and Brian. 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:18.079 What are the biggest financial pressures and operational pressures you face today? 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:22.000 When you wake up in the morning, what are the what are the main one or two things you guys worry about? 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:22.640 Hiram. 00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:43.119 My focus is always uh I I I never dwell on on the problems, I dwell on what I know I need to do. 00:33:43.599 --> 00:34:02.079 Uh so from time to time uh that changes, but uh for the most part just be on top of business and try to do do 110 uh every day, whatever is that that you're face. 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:09.039 But there is not one thing that I wish it was that easy. 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:20.480 One thing would be great, but uh there's always uh uh a plethora of things that you have to uh be you know uh keeping up in the air. 00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:35.199 But that said I retired and 69 now, just started this business a little bit over a year ago, uh and I do it because I love it. 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.679 I I really like what I'm doing. 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:54.960 I think that you know I'm trying to do things different, bring some things uh try to improve, you know, how we do business, but uh ultimately it just proves that uh H don't hear stupid. 00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:12.079 Brian, what is what are your biggest challenges as a distributor in a you know I I just try to keep everything positive and um I like to bring out new products, I think keep it fresh, you know, introduce new things. 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:22.000 Um if you have a line that you've had for a long time and they're not changing anything, uh it gets old and you know you've already sold what you could sell. 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:33.519 So I I you know, like this year I brought in a lot of new lines, and um it gets people excited when you have something new to show them that's innovative, you know. 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:36.239 Uh but I don't really worry about anything. 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:42.000 I'm pretty easy going, so I just go with the flow, whatever direction it takes me. 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:49.920 Doug, Bill, any thoughts on what you hear from distributors at uh what are their biggest challenges? 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:55.840 I'm baffled by the number of distributors who have popped up in the last few years. 00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:09.360 It's uh confusing to me that in many areas we're seeing the number of dealers decline, and at the same time, I can't tell you how many distributors have appeared in the last few years. 00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.639 Um, and I don't know how they do it. 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:20.880 I don't know how they can cover shows, I don't know how they can um do all the advertising they do and sustain. 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:27.280 I think I think some of those distributors are actually dealers, they're they're opposing distributors. 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:28.800 That's what I was gonna say. 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:47.119 There's yeah, there's a difference between an importer and a distributor, they're not all both, and I think you're right, there's always been a certain number of distributors who uh are really dealers, so right, whatever. 00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:55.440 Although distributors with all these brands popping left and right over Europe, well, uh, they're gonna need a distributor. 00:36:55.519 --> 00:37:20.320 So I think uh if from your perspective, being a distributor is just getting a brand uh uh thrown out in the uh in your web page in the internet and wait for an order, then you know, but uh the majority of those dealers are not really uh uh doing much other than uh loading a web page. 00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:22.639 Yeah, and I'll interject here. 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:32.239 My wish list is so about 20 years ago, and this is no offense to Brian and Hiram, because I believe that many distributors, unless they're lying to the manufacturers, are under an impossible situation. 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:37.840 We stop dealing with distributors, and the first thing I tell a company is, you want to deal with us, we're not dealing with your distributor. 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:38.559 And I'll tell you why. 00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:44.159 Chances are you're gonna have a new distributor in two or three years, and we don't want to go on that rocky road. 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.440 Distributors aren't gonna build the brand anymore. 00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:48.800 There isn't enough money to. 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:55.280 And these companies that are dreaming in Technicolor, and I hope they're listening right now to all those manufacturers because they've heard this thing. 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:58.079 Oh, that distributor is gonna make our name in the United States. 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.280 No, they're not, and two years, three years, you're gonna have a new one. 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.119 And this is why I don't want to talk to them. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:14.000 One is handle your own marketing, and there's a I'm not gonna name the name because they're doing really well, a good European company. 00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:19.440 They came into the United States and the distributor said, we're gonna handle every bit of press in the United States. 00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:26.480 And they said, No, you're not, because we do it really well and we do it globally, and we're consistent, and we brand around the world. 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.280 What we're doing is making an easy sale for you. 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:33.679 And so, what I think these manufacturers have to concentrate on first is building their

brand. 00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:34.239 And guess what? 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.320 There's this thing called the internet, it's pretty damn easy. 00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:45.199 Okay, you can get on every day, build a brand, build a desirable product, get a distributor who can then fulfill the other end. 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.599 Don't rely on them to build your name, do not rely on them to get the word out. 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:56.719 Yes, rely on them to get you to the dealer, but don't rely on them to build what you haven't built yet. 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:58.639 And that's my biggest wish. 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:04.559 And that's why honestly, we get most of our products from the manufacturers direct. 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:14.880 I said, You got this thing called UPS or DHL, and yeah, I'll I'll pony out the taxes and duties when it gets here, ship it and get it to my door, and then we'll deal with it. 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:16.719 You're making friends here, Doug. 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:17.679 What's that? 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.199 You're really making friends here. 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:23.519 No, but it's it's a real reality. 00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:26.159 There are two companies, there are too many companies. 00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:28.639 Make a brand name. 00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:39.920 I have to give uh dog a uh uh I'm in agreement, and uh that that is that is a problem. 00:39:40.400 --> 00:40:06.400 In fact, when I started the business, I had a problem calling myself a distributor because there's a difference between a distributor, which is the performance of a very mechanical uh process, and somebody that's promoting a brand, somebody that's uh uh creating a a uh uh a brand name in the United States, and yes, that is a very costly uh process. 00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:18.320 One of the things that I face when I was uh looking for a brand in Europe is that first thing they're they're gonna ask you, how many uh pieces are you gonna buy? 00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:23.119 Uh how many uh uh trade you think you're gonna have in a year? 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.840 And my answer is I don't know. 00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:29.440 This is just brand new, totally unknown. 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:34.480 We have to spend a lot of money, and my answer, I will. 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:46.400 The money that that you want in inventory, I'd rather use it and promote the brand because uh you gotta have demand before you have uh uh the inventory. 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.280 Some are okay with that, some are not. 00:40:49.679 --> 00:41:13.360 But what I tell them, if you are gonna go and try to dump your product or not, try to sell your product, which is totally unknown uh to a distributor, uh, you run a risk because then when that product is not moving and you get a little bit of a cash crunch, guess what's gonna happen to that price? 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:21.840 So uh yeah, I totally agree with you, and that is something that I was quite aware on uh trying to deal with it. 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:30.239 Our last topic, uh which uh Doug kind of started with with his wish about uh that manufacturers building their name first before they get a distributor. 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:40.639 If there if a genie was willing to grant you one wish for each of you for improving the outlook for imported high-end audio, what is there one change you'd like to see? 00:41:44.719 --> 00:42:03.679 I'd say the same thing that I'd say for anybody in the business anywhere, and that's uh you're you're trying to sell the wrong things to the wrong people, and that's uh over the last 30 years we've seen the decline of Hi-Fi as a normal thing. 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:15.599 Uh, it's been turned into the uh uh the geeks and the golden ears, and it's it's not compelling to normal people. 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:31.039 Um, besides which I don't know how people respond to seeing uh a million and a half dollar pair of speakers, but uh having been involved in manufacturing for quite a while, I find that damn hard to accept. 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:34.639 So well, I I'm not hearing I'm not hearing a single wish. 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:38.480 What's the wish you'd ask the genie to improve the outlook of yeah? 00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:41.519 Well, that's that's me emphasizing the negative here. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:53.599 Um yeah, just try to get in touch with with the market realities, the fact that we've got declining incomes, we've got smaller living spaces. 00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:01.920 Um, there are a number of choices that consumers have these days for home entertainment other than hi-fi. 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:06.320 That was not the case in the 60s or 70s, perhaps. 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:16.079 But there's a million things to do now, and how you address those is gonna really affect your level of acceptance. 00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:24.079 Hiram, if there's one thing uh you could uh make a wish for and have happen, what would make your business easier other than increasing demand? 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:26.800 Uh well it could be increasing demand. 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:49.119 I'm gonna go and maybe go out of the limb here and uh uh but as a new uh distributor, uh face uh with the shows that I'm unable to get uh adequate uh space to show my product. 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:53.280 I'm uh focused on the high side of the high end. 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:59.280 Uh so it's impossible for me to get in. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:09.920 And Those are the shows that are covered by the two big uh uh uh uh um uh big companies, the two big magazines. 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:28.480 So I i it it's impossible for a new distributor to get decent or adequate uh uh options uh in the two big shows, which are the uh Washington and and Exponer. 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:44.239 So I wish something could be done about that, and I wish it then I'm forced to go to the lesser shows, and then when you go to the lesser shows, uh you get no uh no media coverage.

00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:50.000 Um magazines don't come, so you know it's uh double double jeopardy. 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.360 So but I'm confused. 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:53.679 You had uh you had big rooms at Expona. 00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:56.960 No, not an Expona. 00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:59.760 This year I just had one of those little rooms. 00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:05.840 Uh two years ago, I had a room that was right across from the lobby from the counter. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.400 Yeah, it's super expensive and horrible acoustically. 00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.679 So and that's the only thing that they would give me. 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:20.480 Uh none of the uh so then the next best thing is the worst room. 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.519 I mean from from one phrase to another. 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:42.000 So uh it's it's difficult to be able to, I'm not gonna get one of those little rooms, uh shot in uh$150,000,$200,000 total system, uh, or next door a$30,000 system is gonna sound just as good as mine. 00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:46.320 Uh while we've got two distributors, I want to take Lee Scoggin's question. 00:45:46.559 --> 00:46:06.719 If you as a distributor, Brian and Hiram, do a great job building up a brand, increasing sales for a non-US manufacturer, uh are you concerned that what will what happened to Philip O'Hanlon with Griffin, for example, will happen to you where you do a great job building the brand and then the non-U.S. 00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:11.599 manufacturer says, thanks so much, our contract's over, we're gonna do this directly now. 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:14.480 It's happened to me many times. 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:20.079 It's happened to me with uh a handful of brands over the years. 00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:36.800 I usually build a brand for 10 years, and then uh for one reason or another they think they're gonna do better somewhere else, and and they they make the move and and the line gets lost, and it you know they're gone. 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:42.639 Um so I just you know I look at it as like one door closes, another one opens. 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:47.039 So I just move on to something else that I like, which I've always done. 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:54.719 You know, you have to I guess you have to reinvent yourself every so often to stay revel, you know, uh to stay current. 00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:58.960 And um yeah, I don't like when that happens, obviously. 00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:03.519 Uh but sometimes you you know you can't you can't avoid it. 00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:09.440 Hiram, does that is that a can you you're you're tending currently to work with somewhat smaller brands than like a griffin. 00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.480 Is that a concern of yours or not really at this stage in your evolution? 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.119 Uh oh, of course, it is a concern. 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:24.559 Uh uh the way I approached uh my uh business is number one, I keep my brands to the minimum. 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:32.159 I have two turntables, I have uh two uh uh loudspeaker companies and and the like. 00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:46.880 Uh and reason being that as a brand promoter, as somebody that's uh uh trying to create a name for the brand, uh I I can't have six brands and and and and do the job. 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:50.239 Uh first of all, resources. 00:47:50.559 --> 00:48:01.599 So I have brands that uh have become more than uh brand I represent, we're very close, we're uh almost like uh partners. 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:09.840 And uh I gotta make sure I keep them by doing the right thing. 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:19.599 And uh if if somebody doesn't want you to uh do their business, uh so be it. 00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:21.840 There's nothing you can do. 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:26.880 I'd rather let them go than uh get into a lengthy uh legal battle. 00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.000 Any any final thoughts on these topics? 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:41.920 Yeah, I would I would say in what the last topic here, um, it's a much more cutthroat environment than it was when I started in audio, which was a million years ago. 00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:51.519 Um, I still remember how outraged people were when Lynn dumped audiophile systems after they did such a great job of building the brand in the US. 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:53.840 That doesn't happen anymore. 00:48:54.159 --> 00:49:02.320 People just think that's business, and it largely is, but it doesn't make for a happy environment. 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:03.760 Doug. 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:13.119 Yeah, and so I guess I get two wishes because I already had spot uh been off on my first one that manufacturers would build their damn brand names from a central location. 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:18.239 Number two is something Bill touched on about people are doing other things for 30 years. 00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:23.280 And I was just talking to a very large company today about this because this is something we're trying to tackle. 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:24.400 Education. 00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:30.639 Okay, we've got an environment where a generation and a half of people don't really know what a hi-fi system is. 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:31.440 Think about that. 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:34.880 They don't know, and we're always talking about oh, bring young people into hi-fi. 00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:40.880 Well, some 16-year-old isn't gonna buy a hi-fi system if he doesn't know, or he or she doesn't know what it is. 00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:48.880 But there are a lot of people out there today who simply have the money, but they have no clue what this is. 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.920 And we've made it extremely difficult in the high end. 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:57.920 Imagine you went and had to buy a car and they said, Okay, you got the body, you got to go find what seats you're gonna put in. 00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:59.280 Maybe we can help you with that. 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:01.199 The wheels, the tires, the brakes. 00:50:01.360

--> 00:50:02.400 This is all different, right? 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:04.239 Look at a hi-fi system, you know. 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:06.079 Oh, that's an amazing pair of speakers. 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:06.719 Can I have those? 00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:09.360 Yeah, but you know, you need all this other stuff to go with it. 00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:09.760 Right. 00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:15.119 And there's a guy in New York named Devin Turnbull, and he's gotten a thing going with clips. 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:16.719 You know who I'm talking about, right? 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:24.159 Yeah, and I can't say what he's playing has ever impressed me in terms of sound. 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:25.599 Far from it. 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.639 But he's presenting systems to people. 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:31.519 You dropped out, Doug. 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:33.440 Stay just repeat the last sentence. 00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.800 He's presenting systems to people as a whole. 00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:41.920 People are coming there, and I see he does this in some New York library, and he's got something else going on. 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:47.440 And people are seeing this, and they're going, okay, there's a turntable, there's speakers, there's an amplifier. 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:52.719 They're seeing the wholeness, they're getting an understanding, an education. 00:50:52.880 --> 00:51:00.079 And more of the hi-fi world, instead of just saying, Oh, everybody wants active speakers, or the educate them, bring back hi-fi. 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:00.880 And guess what? 00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:02.159 This goes back to branding. 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:08.800 Get the company that's gonna say, you know what, we got to bring up a whole bunch of new audio people again. 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:17.679 So maybe we got to explain our product because a generation of and a half have grown up without knowing what this is. 00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:21.199 I think two channels ought to be taught in high school. 00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:22.880 What's that, I remember? 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:25.679 I think two channels ought to be taught in high school. 00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:26.719 Yeah, right. 00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:30.639 Okay, I think go ahead. 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:39.519 Yeah, I was gonna say I um I try to learn as much as I can from the manufacturer so that I can pass it on to the dealer. 00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:43.679 Uh, and I spend a lot of time talking to the dealers. 00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:51.119 You know, sometimes we talk every day uh for weeks and weeks and until I feel like they're up to speed on the products. 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:57.199 I think that's really important, you know, uh that they know everything there is to know. 00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:03.840 So when they're talking to a customer, they don't have to keep you know calling me and saying, hey, what do I tell this guy? 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:09.360 You know, they should know what they're selling, they should know everything about it, you know. 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:12.639 Uh as far as the wish, I wanted to get in on that one. 00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:24.159 Um I think they should take the high-fi shows and put them in like a kind of like what Munich did, where they put them in like um, you know, uh, what do you call those places? 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:27.440 Like a convention center, yeah. 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:34.639 Or something that that's not in a hotel so that everybody can have the big rooms that they want. 00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:40.000 And it's not, it's not, they're not playing fair because some people get them and some people don't. 00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:44.320 So they can't think about the average hi-fi show that happens in a hotel. 00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.119 And if somebody is shown, like Bill said, you know, a million and a half dollar speakers, whatever. 00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:53.519 But some you throw this stuff in a little hotel room, no signage. 00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:56.320 And by the way, the Europeans tend to do it really well. 00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:59.599 When you go to the European shows, they tend to dress a room, okay? 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:02.960 But you go in and they throw this and you say, Well, how much is that? 00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:08.559 Imagine somebody coming off the thing and they look at some app and you say, Well, that's eighty-five thousand dollars. 00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:18.559 You're in a two hundred dollar crappy hotel room where the bed's been pulled up, you're saying that's an eighty-five thousand dollar amp and you don't even have like a banner on the wall. 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:21.199 Like, how is this possible? 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:24.159 It's eighty-five thousand dollars. 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:28.800 Like, to the average, how are you ever gonna educate based on that? 00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:30.960 You need a great display. 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:32.239 What's that? 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:34.079 Yeah, presentations, everything. 00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:41.360 It's the it's the the first time you see it, you know, you have to have to it has to be presented in a nice way. 00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:47.679 Like you said, not in in a in a hotel room that costs eighty-five dollars a night. 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:53.840 The bed's been pulled out, the headboard's on there, maybe the dresser's still in there and it's got the turntable on it. 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:56.239 It's it's yeah, it's kind of horrendous. 00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:58.320 Okay, moving on to the music segment. 00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.280 Anybody have any music recommendations for us tonight? 00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:02.559 I do. 00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:04.480 I've been talking a lot. 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:11.840 Okay, so we started the soundstage recordings thing um months ago, and I announced it, and this isn't a soundstage recordings thing. 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:18.880 I was in the record center in Ottawa, one of the best uh things, filming a

Y vinyl. 00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:27.920 Okay, and I ran into this guy, his name is James LeClaire, and I said, Holy cow, that's a nice looking album. 00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:32.400 Okay, it's called The Deal, it's his third album. 00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:37.360 Precision pressing out of Toronto, pressed it on nice green, okay. 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:42.639 Oh, cool, and it doesn't sound amazing, but it sounds very good. 00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:54.400 It was done by a local um uh producer named Phil Bova into tube and analog or tube uh gear analog stuff, gave it a good sound, that sort of thing. 00:54:54.559 --> 00:55:01.440 And I said, James, maybe we can do something audiophile killer for the soundstage recordings label. 00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.679 So I don't know, but maybe it is. 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:10.079 But again, James LeClaire, the deal, not gonna be easy to find, but they have it at the record center. 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.320 What genre Y vinyl? 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:13.760 And James actually shows up. 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:15.599 What genre of music does he do? 00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:17.360 Uh, yeah, I should have said that, shouldn't it? 00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:20.159 Basically, acoustic folk edging into rock. 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:25.440 Okay, well recorded, that sort of thing, but uh kind of uh yeah, that kind of thing. 00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:26.639 Neil youngish. 00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:28.719 Anyone else? 00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:35.599 Well, I just got back from a little island in the Caribbean called Anguilla. 00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:40.639 Oh, yeah, and uh very, very small, rich in music. 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:42.719 I mean, they have some very nice artists. 00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:52.480 Uh, I came upon this gentleman, this uh artist there, they call him the uh Anguillian uh Anguilla Dylan. 00:55:53.280 --> 00:56:03.840 Uh and he, if if you listen to him, you'll see both uh the Dylan and the uh uh reggae part of it, the Vardy part of it. 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:09.039 But uh all I could find is one recording in in in entitled. 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:20.639 Uh but the uh lyrics of his songs, uh the songs are either pretty unique interpreter, but the lyrics of the songs are are something to be heard. 00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:33.280 So uh his name is Banky B-A-N-K-I-E Banky Banks, ending with that X B-A-N-X. 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:54.320 Three times uh uh a week he has he does like a show uh in his house in Aguilera, which is like a little beach uh uh by the sea, and you just sit there like uh it was your living room or whatever. 00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:56.800 It's that that that kind of thing. 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:02.400 But check out the the music and the lyrics is is uh this guy's a genius. 00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:04.000 This guy's pretty good. 00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:06.400 Wow, terrific, Hiram. 00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:07.119 Thank you. 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.199 Yeah, all righty. 00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:13.599 Normally we do the high five five the second and fourth Wednesday of every month. 00:57:13.840 --> 00:57:19.039 The fourth Wednesday of this month, I'm going to be at Southwest Audio Fest on July 22nd. 00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:27.760 So the next episode of the Hi Fi Five will be Wednesday, July 29th, and it will be a Southwest Audio Fest show report. 00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.760 Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining tonight. 00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:30.400 This is great. 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:32.880 See you in Dallas. 00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:34.000 Bye bye. 00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:35.119 See you in Dallas. 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:35.840 Bye bye. 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:37.119 Bye bye.