Chris Lowder | Building Global Hospitality Success Through Cultural Intelligence & Ego Suppression의 전체 녹취록

COVID in China. I'm probably one of five Americans that can tell you that 25 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:25.760 story. Right. And now I live in Miami, where I am running my company LTH, Louder Tascarella 26 00:03:25.760 --> 00:03:31.680 Hospitality, and we develop bars and restaurants for luxury and lifestyle hotels around the world. 27 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:37.920 I have a lot of fun in life and living it, but it hasn't always been easy to get from point A 28 00:03:37.920 --> 00:03:42.240 to wherever point on one now. You tell us a little bit about that. Kind of jump into the middle of 29 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:47.600 the story, which is a fun place to start. And then this is like a Tarantino way of telling 30 00:03:49.600 --> 00:04:00.320 I moved to Shanghai to open a hotel consultancy for luxury beverage programs. And we also did 31 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:08.160 spirits importing. So like, think whiskey from Scotland or gin from France or Caribbean rum or 32 00:04:08.160 --> 00:04:14.000 whatever. So we would import all that into China and then distribute it to bars all across the 33 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:21.360 country. We're there running around the country and I'm feeling like, oh my gosh, I am really needing 34 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:27.520 to take a minute. You know what I mean? Take a minute. Spend some time with myself. I have so many 35 00:04:27.520 --> 00:04:36.480 late nights in bars and in back rooms and karaoke rooms. Like selling whiskey in China's 36 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:42.080 difficult business. We were selling like single cask whiskey. So imagine you've got like a 32-year 37 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:48.720 McCallan or something like that. Now a 32-year McCallan cask might go for like $300,000. 38 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:57.600 So and what we would do is we got a cartoonist to do like a custom front label of the bottle. 39 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:04.640 And so if you're like Mr. Yang with your fancy company and all your millions of dollars, 40 00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:10.720 what's something that you can't necessarily buy? So we would say, hey, I'll get a cartoonist to 41 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:17.120 do a picture of you and a picture of your company behind you and all your paintings, 42 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:23.600 you know, and your dog or some personal details in your life. And we'll weave all that together 43 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:29.280 and put it on the front label of the whiskey and you can, you know, just give that to all your 44 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.560 friends. Yeah, yeah. And so people would get really excited about that. But they they're not just 45 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:43.600 going to spend 300 grand or 200 grand or whatever. They want time with you. In China, 46 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:50.000 you know, everyone has their love language. In China, it's time spent. So and gifts given. 47 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:58.320 So you've got to go, I would go like three days, four days to like Southern China, to like Guangzhou

48 00:05:58.320 --> 00:06:06.800 or Dongguan or Xi'an or Shaman or whatever. Me, I speak Mandarin because I was a translator once 49 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:14.640 upon a time. And so I go and I meet with Mr. Yang. Here's how that goes. If you if you're ever in the 50 00:06:14.640 --> 00:06:20.240 situation where you're having to do a business, you know, $100,000 worth of whiskey in China. 51 00:06:20.880 --> 00:06:26.320 And that comes up in your journey. Here's how it goes. Is you you show up at the train station 52 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:32.240 or the airport, you know, some some dude is there and like a ill-fitting giant black suit, 53 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:37.840 even though it's like 90 degrees outside. Yeah. You're going to go up some little back staircase, 54 00:06:37.840 --> 00:06:47.200 six floors and you sit down and it's like dark hallways, whatever. You sit down in this this 55 00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:59.920 back little store room and you get to finally a catacombe of people in it on their desks just 56 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:06.160 doing work and everything's a mess. Every there's files everywhere. There's like a ping pong table 57 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:15.040 over here. There is, you know, some weird Chinese calligraphy painting on the wall or whatever. 58 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:20.480 And you you you get ushered back into the back office. Now, if the back office and the Chinese 59 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:30.640 trading company is a giant table. I mean, it's like a comically large and this is a hundred. 60 00:07:30.640 --> 00:07:37.600 This is not a. This is right. This is this is you will see exactly this. It's a comically 61 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.480 large table. Right. Right. It's like a thousand years old or something. It should be in the 62 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.320 Louvre or whatever. Yeah. Right. Within the back of some warehouse. 63 00:07:48.080 --> 00:07:53.840 And these guys that have this money and they're just like buying cultural artifacts and 64 00:07:53.920 --> 00:08:01.360 right and using it to make tea and it's a blast. So you're okay. You sit there. They start making tea 65 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:07.680 and you will have tea. They open a little packet and they're like this this is called literally 66 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:12.800 I had one one time the guy was like this is called duck piss tea. And he's like it's called duck 67 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:18.000 piss tea because it smells like duck piss. And I was like oh boy. Pour me a cup. Pour me a cup. 68 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:25.040 You're like they're like this is a big deal. Like we don't just bring out the duck. We don't 69 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:35.600 bring out the duck piss tea for any body. And it's you get the duck piss. And ironically like 70 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:44.560 like this much duck piss tea is like 600 US dollars for the tea bag you know and and so it's a 71 00:08:44.560 --> 00:08:49.840 this is a big deal to get the duck piss it's the first deep and the second steep and then you're 72 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.720 talking and then you know outcome cigars and so you can't even smell the duck piss because the 73 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:03.040 cigars are there. So anyway and so you do all this then you go to hot pot and hot pot you know 74 00:09:03.040 --> 00:09:09.280 you've got a huge thing of broth chili broth meats and sauces you'll go back to the 75 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:17.040 office. You'll have some more tea. People will be on their phones. They'll have random people 76 00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:22.000 will come and go. That's the other thing about these offices is you know it's like you're in the 77 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:28.400 Godfather's office and like some guy comes in and he's dropping like some bag and it's bad 78 00:09:28.400 --> 00:09:35.040 you're like don't worry about that. It's not funny. He's got five lackeys that are in there but 79 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:39.120 they're not contributing value. They're just playing like League of Legends on their phones and 80 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:44.960 just like chain smoking e-cigarettes and so you like you know and every now and then one of them will say 81 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:50.800 like oh you know Mr. Chun is buying six bottles of something okay okay okay and then they're back 82 00:09:50.800 --> 00:09:58.640 to their like League of Legends game and then you're just sitting there as a weird total fish 83 00:09:58.640 --> 00:10:03.360 out of water right because you have it have you talked business at this point no no no no that's 84 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:09.920 actually taboo it is taboo you're just vibing right how many like how long before you can even talk 85 00:10:09.920 --> 00:10:16.240 how many meetings before you can even talk business so you you go through you go back to the office 86 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:22.560 more tea cigars and other Bob Lewisky then you go out to karaoke and at this point it's like 87 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:30.240 11 p.m. or whatever you go to a karaoke room you and all the lackeys and everybody sits you'll 88 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.760 sit in the center they'll give you the mic you're like guest of honor you're a uh westerner so 89 00:10:35.760 --> 00:10:41.840 they'd be like do some M&M you know what I mean they'll be like yeah you look like that guy 90 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:49.760 I have expectations and it goes over so well everyone's clapping and to the beat and you know you've 91 00:10:49.760 --> 00:10:56.320 got your matcha ice cream or whatever you got on that karaoke room it's epic and then then 92 00:10:57.040 --> 00:11:03.280 you get to 2 a.m. 3 a.m. and they turn to you and they put a little hand on your shoulder and 93 00:11:03.280 --> 00:11:07.680 they're like how much was that casco whiskey and you're like 300 grand they're like all right send 94 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:13.760 the invoice over oh interesting so if they have to like you like yeah it's they're they're

waiting 95 00:11:13.760 --> 00:11:18.960 to see if they they're trying to get to know you and your personality and see if they trust you 96 00:11:19.760 --> 00:11:27.120 by having like a night of drinking and fun and and tea to actually sort of bond and then they 97 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:33.600 give you the green light by asking okay how much and and by the end the the the price and product 98 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:39.440 doesn't really matter so much because they say that you you do business with the person not the 99 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:48.560 company that's a big part of me I love that Eric should adopt that yeah because in here I feel 100 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:55.120 like it's the reverse of course in China it's a high value on the human a high value on human 101 00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:02.000 human relationships um you know companies are you got to be slow to hire it's it's difficult to 102 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:10.000 fire it's uh you know there's a lot of employee protection um kind of just a tree business uh and 103 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:15.280 so that's that's kind of how it's all built and then but then also just business to business 104 00:12:15.280 --> 00:12:20.640 relationships it's like sometimes you even go into a bad deal knowing that it's a bad deal because 105 00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:25.680 it's like hey you know ten years you just want to work with the person you know yeah it's a lot 106 00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:29.680 of it's going to be water under the bridge and they say look like I've been doing business with 107 00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:36.400 this guy or this lady for 20 years or 30 years across six companies you know and they say this is 108 00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:44.560 my you're my people and so for them they say look for for us it's about the relationship you don't 109 00:12:44.560 --> 00:12:51.680 do a thing called cold business cold business is uh when you just do business over the phone or 110 00:12:51.680 --> 00:12:56.560 email they're like dude if you're if we're doing business with you I want to see you I want you 111 00:12:56.560 --> 00:13:02.880 here I want to yeah I want to we got to go out and that's not just for foreigners doing business 112 00:13:02.880 --> 00:13:09.840 it's right right it's very right yeah I'm uh I'm unusually deep in the culture for a 113 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:18.320 right for a foreigner probably yeah China's 99.3% on Chinese or something like that and uh 114 00:13:19.680 --> 00:13:26.400 and the number of foreigners who actually speak Chinese fluently are almost nothing I mean 115 00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:30.880 and you know it's getting less every day with AI you have less incentive to study the language 116 00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:38.080 so right that's rare but they the one big thing is they say look like I want to see you drunk 117 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:43.840 there's a saying in in you know old Latin saying right like in vino veritas right they're like 118 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:49.200 truth in wine truth right right right like you're going to be your most realist self when all 119 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:55.200 your inhibitions are gone so I want to see at the end of the day right what are you like you know 120 00:13:55.920 --> 00:14:01.920 when all the boundaries are down yeah uh and we're going to get handled together I'm curious for you 121 00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:10.240 having having been through that uh is there is there something about that experience or that warmness 122 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:16.720 like you say is that something that you have taken into your business in any way or what is there 123 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:22.800 something you took away from that experience that you use in business yourself well for for sure 124 00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:30.560 I think that there's uh in Asia there's a lot of talk about face face culture you know people 125 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:37.440 that are big in Japanese, Korean, Chinese uh business will say oh you know you've got to do this 126 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.920 for face or they're doing that to save face or to give them face or something so that's this whole 127 00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:52.960 idea of like the social people's sensitivity to the social perception of your relationship or 128 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:59.120 you as an individual or whatever and you know you might call it in the west like stroking somebody's 129 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:07.840 ego or you might say it like that and so in the west we have this idea around ego and 130 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:15.280 relationship between the individual and society as being like a bad thing like it's a bad thing 131 00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:20.960 that you're very socially sensitive it's a bad thing that you care so much what other people think 132 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:30.560 or it's a bad thing that you are acting in a performative way for example in Asia it's really the 133 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:36.320 inverse where the weight is more on society and there's a lot less of a weight on the individual 134 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:42.880 and that's you know we just assume that that's bad but I've lived in both sides and so I can see 135 00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:51.200 where there's benefits like if there's a crisis for example it's easier to get people to work 136 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:57.360 together and collaborate you might say with a western conspiratorial hat like it's easier you 137 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:02.880 now we're all sheep all and you're going to take advantage of it so but we have a totally 138 00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:08.800 different view of you know social structure or whatever right but one thing I can say having 139 00:16:08.800 --> 00:16:18.720 lived in both sides is like it's really worth it to be sensitive to the image of leaders that 140 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:24.080 you're interacting with in business and you know you can it's a little you get a little like 141 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:30.480

sunzoo art of war or a little bit like Robert Green laws of power or whatever where you don't 142 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:35.360 have shine the master like that's the number one that's how rules laws of power number one 143 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:41.520 is if there's somebody that you're doing business with like don't don't sun them in front of 144 00:16:41.520 --> 00:16:48.080 their team like you know I'd say to people all the time even when things aren't their idea 145 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:53.520 but if they were just collaborators in an idea or initiative I'd be like hey John that was a great 146 00:16:53.520 --> 00:16:58.800 idea that you had to do this and like wow how much it's worked out now it was John's idea it might 147 00:16:58.800 --> 00:17:05.440 have been my idea you know but like if if John's getting credit and I just want the idea to go 148 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:14.080 forward and I want John and his team to collaborate and we're all winning so like it's a lot of 149 00:17:14.080 --> 00:17:22.720 just suppression of your own ego and and knowing to just give out praise and not in a sick 150 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:30.080 authentic way yeah it feels warm and genuine it's fascinating because I think in Western culture 151 00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:36.240 we have such a fixation on ownership and like a fixation on ownership of our ideas ownership 152 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:42.800 of our contributions ownership of things that we built or contribute to and then the feedback loop 153 00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:48.800 that were conditioned is that if you if people know that you're the owner of it then that's when 154 00:17:48.800 --> 00:17:54.880 you actually get rewards so what you're saying is like in Eastern culture it's actually maybe 155 00:17:54.880 --> 00:18:02.880 the opposite where it's no it's everybody collectively wants just the whatever that idea thought is 156 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:09.280 to move forward and so therefore it's the focus is on the community aspect of just making it move 157 00:18:09.280 --> 00:18:15.280 forward rather than the individual getting credit beyond whoever is the the main person who's going 158 00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:22.080 to help to move it forward is that yeah and I think totally I think there's benefits both ways 159 00:18:22.080 --> 00:18:30.320 so I think it's there's just real value in thinking about it from either direction because you 160 00:18:30.320 --> 00:18:34.720 you know you don't want to live in an extreme on either side right like almost always the answers 161 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.400 in the middle you don't want to live in this world where it's like nobody gets any credit for 162 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:45.520 anything and everything is just the property of the state to put it right but but you know you 163 00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:51.680 also don't want to live in this world where you know I think sometimes we see things slide too far 164 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:59.360 in the other direction where things are so individualistic right and another frame for 165 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:07.520 individuality is anti social right and we don't really see it that way necessarily but the more 166 00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:12.720 that you're like no no I'm going to do things my way like neverminds the group like that is 167 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:20.560 antithetical to having some kind of social harmony and and it's it's really that's really a question 168 00:19:20.560 --> 00:19:24.720 of people's value system now we're getting like very meta but it's really a question of people's 169 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:35.280 value systems of you do you value some kind of social order versus you know individual autonomy 170 00:19:35.280 --> 00:19:40.320 and and you know the answer always is somewhere in the middle it can't be total energy and it can't 171 00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:48.240 be total submission but it to live in a context where you see things that are on a different part 172 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:55.920 of that spectrum is interesting and will I think shape you for the better at least in terms of your 173 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:01.840 own perspective yeah does that make sense yeah it seems like I mean given how you have such a 174 00:20:01.840 --> 00:20:09.200 depth experience and perspective of both cultures I could see why now that how you've been so 175 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:20.480 successful in your hospitality career because a lot of the a lot of the companies that you've also 176 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:26.560 worked for and worked with over the years have global coverage around the world they have 177 00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:31.200 locations both in the east and the west and so you've been able to successfully 178 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.480 make the top 50 lists for bars for the world in both east and west you talk about the 179 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:47.360 difference of experience between those two the real secret is in crushing your own ego there's 180 00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:53.760 this whole idea he goes the enemy and all this so I learned this lesson in a big way when I first 181 00:20:53.760 --> 00:21:00.000 moved to Korea so I was at a hotel called the nomad hotel and we were we won all the awards we 182 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:05.120 got our james beard awards and 50 best for the bar and a Michelin star for the restaurant it was 183 00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:11.120 like the hottest thing and I was managing all the bar programming there so I have 40 employees 184 00:21:11.120 --> 00:21:16.560 we were raging you know I had at least 40 employees under me right it was the hotel employees but 185 00:21:16.560 --> 00:21:23.920 I was leading a team of 40 I should say and just at the highest level doing high volume cocktail 186 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:30.480 everyone's like oh my god you guys are the best so then I got a job for four seasons hotel to open 187 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:37.920 their new property in Seoul South Korea I'd

never lived in Korea I don't speak Korean and that was 188 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:45.360 a totally new territory for me and so I wound up moving you know I applied to that role because I 189 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:52.960 was very interested in getting into opening hotels and greater leadership of multiple venues 190 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.800 both as a creative exercise like it's very interesting and satisfying to develop so much stuff 191 00:21:58.800 --> 00:22:04.800 and then train that many people and then also from kind of this business 192 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:12.560 social contribution side of saying look if we're able to run eight venues at a time I can train 193 00:22:12.560 --> 00:22:18.080 these people this many new people to work in a different way to make money for themselves 194 00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:23.840 and their families to give a great experience to guests and and and make people happy unmass and 195 00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:31.040 that's always been my long-term vision even since the Nomad days is to be able to be in a space where 196 00:22:31.040 --> 00:22:39.600 I can have a greater and greater field of influence to bring positive change so to be in a place where 197 00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:47.840 I can have teams that have teams that have teams that train people to give that kind of gift 198 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:55.680 for me I find that satisfying so Korea was the first step in that journey I moved to Seoul I know 199 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:01.360 nothing I don't know anything about you know I was and I was working non-stop at the Nomad so by 200 00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:07.200 the time I finally got to catch my breath I was on a plane to Korea oh boy I have no idea what I'm 201 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.400 going to myself into I know the food's going to be spicy I know I like kimchi it was pretty much all I got 202 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:22.160 so I wound up moving out there and we started developing the bars and restaurants and I was in 203 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.000 charge for of all the beverage again eight venues we had a speakeasy bar in the basement designed by 204 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:34.960 avarco beautiful corals eight I recommend anybody gives it a Google it's like a stunning venue 205 00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:45.120 and I started leading the team to develop what eventually became the first ever bar in Korea to 206 00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:52.160 get on the 50 best list so I'll just give you a little anecdote about ego is I'm there we're 207 00:23:53.040 --> 00:24:01.840 running the bar and I'm having the hardest time getting our service staff in Korea to actively 208 00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:08.560 refill water glasses for guests this seems like a trivial detail but it winds up being very important 209 00:24:08.560 --> 00:24:15.760 is when you're in a great venue in my opinion service and hospitality is when you know the guest 210 00:24:15.760 --> 00:24:21.520 has everything they need and nothing that they don't and you can preempt what they might want you 211 00:24:21.520 --> 00:24:29.520 know you go to a great space every time you feel like you need something it just happens to appear 212 00:24:29.520 --> 00:24:34.800 yeah right the servers coming over at just the right time oh man I was just about to ask for you 213 00:24:34.800 --> 00:24:40.160 and you know what I mean right absolutely you're getting low on that cocktail you start to have 214 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:47.200 that little anxiety yeah it never quite gets to the bottom and they're like yeah and it's super 215 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.560 cool and effortless right absolutely and people know you miss them when they're away and you feel 216 00:24:52.560 --> 00:24:59.200 like oh my god this place gets me and so I'm trying to get our staff to like do that and to 217 00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:06.800 to not hide in the back of the venue until they're called right and I noticed it drives me 218 00:25:07.760 --> 00:25:11.360 crazy of course if a guest is like snapping their fingers for attention 219 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:19.440 hey that's not a cool thing to do but be also like why is it that the staff is creating a situation 220 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:24.160 in which someone might feel the need to be rude to get their attention right it works both ways 221 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:32.400 right so I'm talking to them and I what I wound up realizing was that in Korea that's not how 222 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:45.360 service works and I realized eventually that I was pushing my expectations and cultural 223 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:54.000 values of what I presumed would be great sir you know and even though my intentions were in the 224 00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:00.000 right place the reality was I was actually making everybody in the room uncomfortable with this 225 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:08.560 service pile because I was aching from them the ability to serve each other in Korea the servers 226 00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:15.680 are supposed to stay way over there because we are having our group bubble and if I want something 227 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:21.840 from you I'm gonna call you right and Yokeyo and you see them like you know and then the server's 228 00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:28.080 like yeah and then they like yeah yeah yeah yeah you're not supposed to like hover and come and check in 229 00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:34.480 the why in the states here when you go to Korean barbecue there's a button that you press 230 00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:41.040 where then they come and they bring you whatever it is that you need you press the button to be called 231 00:26:41.040 --> 00:26:47.840 it records all that social awkwardness of having to call and whatever and you just hit the button 232 00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:56.240 because the idea is servers are to leave us alone we are having time together like I'm preparing 233 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:01.440 food for you and you are pouring drinks for me and this is our right

right right right we're 234 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.400 asking the version the the epitome of service is like someone is there before you need them they're 235 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:13.600 a constantly circling hovering and they're not happening and not pestering but being you know what I 236 00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:19.360 mean yeah that's fine line right you go to like the fancy steakhouse and you see the servers are all 237 00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:25.040 at attention like they're like they're the ball boys in a tennis match you know that they're just ready 238 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:33.440 yeah so how did you how did you come to this realization just like watching or did somebody tell 239 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:39.920 you or what happened having like two years in one mouth I'm pretty socially sensitive in that way 240 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:45.360 of just watching group dynamics and what's good and what's bad and I would ask people like what 241 00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:53.200 restaurants they like and I think if you don't you know you also need to have a self awareness 242 00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.680 and you need to have a certain degree of empathy and understand that you're you know I think 243 00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:04.960 especially with hospitality you're developing something that's inherently kind of like not for you 244 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:12.080 this is the space for the people that are going to enjoy the space we'll do a menu for an owner you 245 00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:18.080 know owner of a restaurant or a hotel and you know we we will propose the menu and they're like oh 246 00:28:18.080 --> 00:28:23.440 you know I hate salmon you know so let's get rid of that dish and I'll be like well my friend 247 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.280 99% of the world does not hate salmon 248 00:28:27.280 --> 00:28:33.040 to say about you ultimately it's like what is this for you and to you as someone 249 00:28:33.040 --> 00:28:41.520 is creating is this about you or is it about the audience yeah and great art of course is a mix 250 00:28:41.520 --> 00:28:48.560 great art and consumer art restaurants or consumer art you know you are creating something that is 251 00:28:48.560 --> 00:28:54.000 part and expression of yourself and your own you know thoughts and experiences and you think it's 252 00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:00.880 cool but you have to be equally or even more sensitive to how that's going to be received by the 253 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:08.160 outside world and to your question about building spaces you know east and west and various hotel 254 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:15.920 groups and you know we we do private restaurants and everything from like a really fancy membership 255 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:24.640 club in Palm Beach to you know we just did a we just did a rock and roll venue and bar in restaurant 256 00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:32.960 called Garcia's with Jerry Garcia's family very Garcia from Graple Dad yeah so speaking of so you 257 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:38.880 speak multiple languages but I'm here it's so did you learn Korean while you were in South Korea 258 00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:45.120 I learned a little I can like order beer to the table you know what I mean but 259 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.760 so how do you how do you you're being hired it's kind of as the boss to come in and you don't 260 00:29:51.760 --> 00:29:57.360 speak the language how did you what was your approach yeah being able to communicate well the 261 00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.120 so the the great news is when you're working with an international hotel like four seasons 262 00:30:05.280 --> 00:30:10.560 step one is do you speak English yes no because the guests are coming from all around the world 263 00:30:10.560 --> 00:30:19.520 and so and also international hotels worldwide tend to be in this kind of English first working 264 00:30:19.520 --> 00:30:28.400 environment but you know and I know that if you really want to speak to someone and really 265 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:33.440 understand them if you're speaking through a second language like it's always going to be a 266 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:38.720 challenge especially when you get into like junior staff like how well does that bartender really 267 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:43.840 speak English right right it's gonna be a lot of gesturing and we're gonna get through it kind of 268 00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:53.520 clunky right and then the other part is language and culture are inextricable so you cannot 269 00:30:53.520 --> 00:30:59.680 learn a language without understanding the culture and you cannot understand a culture without 270 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:06.080 learning the language so when I am spending time in Japan or in China having spent so many years 271 00:31:06.080 --> 00:31:16.080 there Korea to some degree like the only when I started to get deep in both a language and culture 272 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:25.280 context together was I really able to start to empathetically feel like I had some level of 273 00:31:25.280 --> 00:31:31.280 understanding of like why people are doing what they're doing and and what does that mean right 274 00:31:31.280 --> 00:31:38.800 which is kind of what it calls I'm curious what's your so you've lived in so many different countries 275 00:31:38.800 --> 00:31:46.480 and do you did you approach the way to integrate yourself into that specific country when you move 276 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:53.680 there the same way at each location or did it change over time sure I think in terms of 277 00:31:54.320 --> 00:32:02.160 integration into a culture like there's two parts to that one is like a functional kind of 278 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.880 integration so I might move to Korea and okay now I gotta get a phone and now I gotta get 279 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:14.800 an apartment and and through doing that process you're going to naturally encounter a bunch of 280 00:32:14.800 --> 00:32:20.080 stuff we call that culture

shop right you're gonna be like what do you mean that I can buy a live 281 00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:25.520 squid at the grocery store you know what do you mean seven eleven has like live oh my god seven 282 00:32:25.520 --> 00:32:34.160 eleven in Seoul you you are like it's called like K I forget what the name of the convenience store is 283 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.280 there but you've got like the beer and the snacks and then I remember going in one day and there was 284 00:32:39.280 --> 00:32:44.720 just like live crabs in a basket with like a set of tongs next to it you just grab yourself a 285 00:32:44.720 --> 00:33:00.800 couple live crabs and chuck it in the old bag there it's a totally different totally 286 00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:09.840 different side of the spectrum it's definitely given me a lot of perspective and as someone that 287 00:33:09.840 --> 00:33:16.880 puts together social spaces for a living and gains team for a living that sense of perspective has 288 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:22.560 been I think something that's really helped those spaces and teams be more successful I have a 289 00:33:22.560 --> 00:33:27.040 question about that because you just said you know like you said the social spaces for a living but 290 00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:32.560 also like building teams for living is a big part of what you do and we have a fully covered 291 00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:37.200 here but I know like it wasn't that you necessarily went to school for like management or like 292 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:42.240 business and that sense you went and studied foreign languages so I'm curious what you 293 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:51.680 learned about management of teams of yours having runs built and run so many in all these different 294 00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:00.800 places which it just sounds intimidating to say out loud and we know we all know people you know 295 00:34:00.800 --> 00:34:07.120 we love people but you know people people can be eventually you know it's kind of time so I'd 296 00:34:07.120 --> 00:34:14.000 love to know like yeah what you learned or like what your approach is like just like iVS with your 297 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:20.960 management greatness step one is just do your best every day that you can if sometimes the efforts 298 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:27.840 and results are great and I'm grateful to work with awesome people that are they're able to achieve 299 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:34.640 those results together I guess management journey like my first ever time as a manager was at the 300 00:34:34.640 --> 00:34:44.400 nomad hotel running that team and you know I was fortunate that it was in the context of a hotel 301 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:49.920 where there's different managers running different aspects of the hotel right I had some amazing 302 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:59.440 people alongside me that really made sure that one another's work was very good and and made sure 303 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:04.640 that we didn't fail as

individuals because then we would fail as a team and they we had we had 304 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:12.160 an awesome culture at that hotel of excellence and of you know mutual support that's where I met my 305 00:35:12.160 --> 00:35:16.880 business partner Jeff taskarella he was the GM of that hotel at the time so like kudos to Jeff 306 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:24.880 for helping to create such an awesome culture so then going to korea I got a lot of management 307 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.880 training at the four seasons you know look I was blessed and of course work very hard and and 308 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:38.560 took big risks and big swings and left new york a team in new york that was like crushing it 309 00:35:38.560 --> 00:35:44.560 to go and carve my own path and make my own name in korea where I don't speak the language and 310 00:35:44.560 --> 00:35:52.480 that was all very scary and not easy at any point in time but along the way I got really great 311 00:35:53.040 --> 00:35:59.120 experience and education and learning from four seasons that objectively does an amazing job 312 00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:04.960 with manager training I have to like kudos to them even after working with like a hundred different 313 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:09.440 hotel companies between then and now they're still like gold standards so I learned some great 314 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:18.320 things there I moved to china and then now I'm actually like GM of a company what was called 315 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:23.840 proofing company was the the group that I was running there and we had this it was a larger 316 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:28.720 wine importer this french wine importer and I realized I was like if we're not making money and if 317 00:36:28.720 --> 00:36:33.680 this isn't profitable and we're not sending money back to the Singapore mother ship and if it's 318 00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:39.360 not sustainable I'm not going to have this job in two years like they say if you want to take 319 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:44.800 the island you got to burn the boats you know I mean it's like I'm I don't either I'm going back 320 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:52.240 to Baltimore to work in the crab house again or I'm going to figure this out and so you know I 321 00:36:52.240 --> 00:37:00.080 started reading a lot of books I started reading a lot about you know business and management 322 00:37:00.080 --> 00:37:08.560 managing people like everything I could get my hands on I read a ton of books I was able to sit 323 00:37:08.560 --> 00:37:14.000 you know I was pretty active and I asked for advice hey I don't understand a P&L like can you 324 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:23.600 help YouTube I did a ton of YouTube to learn P&L P&L management cash flow oh my god I've learned 325 00:37:23.680 --> 00:37:30.560 so much on YouTube University oh it's it's way better like honestly and you can learn you can 326 00:37:30.560 --> 00:37:36.880 learn so much I did you know Khan Academy in the early days just their videos about you know 327 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:44.000 stocks and bonds and markets now all this works and for me it was just this a little bit 328 00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:53.040 anxiety of just look if I don't figure this out and grow it then it you know the way yeah it goes 329 00:37:53.040 --> 00:37:58.800 away and and with a company it's one of the things with team leadership and growing a company 330 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:05.600 and all this is if if you don't like there's one way to look at it which is if you're not growing 331 00:38:05.600 --> 00:38:11.600 or dying and then you have to make hard decisions it's hard every day it's just you want fun hard 332 00:38:11.600 --> 00:38:16.640 or not fun hard yeah you know and fun hard is like we're growing too fast and now I have to 333 00:38:16.640 --> 00:38:21.440 hire more people and we have too many clients and you know my lobster is too buttery and my 334 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:28.000 stakes too tender but it's like that's like that's the fun hard it's still going to be complicated 335 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:35.120 like I still have to figure it out yeah but rather that and so you know I just started I really 336 00:38:35.120 --> 00:38:39.680 changed my mindset around it and said look like I'm gonna grow this we're gonna be the best that we 337 00:38:39.680 --> 00:38:46.640 can be because then I can hire amazing people hardworking honest people you know I can put more 338 00:38:46.640 --> 00:38:52.800 people on the bus we're you know right now we're a fun team of 16 we have offers in Miami New York 339 00:38:52.800 --> 00:39:00.720 and Bangkok we work with all the major hotel groups doing cool hotel projects and fun restaurants 340 00:39:00.720 --> 00:39:07.120 and some like really cool private boutique stuff you know we we've done projects and maladies and 341 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:14.560 Bangkok you know we just got a new project in Mexico City and one in Medellin and one in Buenos 342 00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:23.120 Aires and one in like we're all over and we just signed up iconic hotel in Barcelona that's doing 343 00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:29.680 hundreds of millions of dollar renovation and they they chose us to to put together a brand new 344 00:39:29.680 --> 00:39:34.320 series of restaurants and bars for them so it's like I'm grateful we just try to do the very 345 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:38.640 best job that we can it's at the end of the day these are spaces about the people that are going 346 00:39:38.640 --> 00:39:43.200 to work in them and dine in them and drink in them and we just try to give the gift that we can. 347 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:53.840 You you've obviously taking a lot of risk of leaving one of the top bars in the world that you 348 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:58.720 built that you helped build then going to another country you've lived in multiple other countries 349 00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:07.120 you rebuild all over the world different hospitality

venues what gives you the confidence or what 350 00:40:07.120 --> 00:40:13.520 what's your mindset before you take huge risk for your literally uprooting your life to go make 351 00:40:13.520 --> 00:40:20.640 these changes and how do you manage any fears that may come along with that or or are there any fears? 352 00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:29.920 It's scary every time I mean the first big risk so I was a oh I guess I moved to China and 353 00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:38.960 and learn Mandarin but my first big professional risk was I was sitting as a translator once I had 354 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:48.560 my degree and once I finished all this education and I realized I sat there at my desk and I was 355 00:40:48.640 --> 00:40:55.920 using a thing suddenly called Google Translate it's not good but it won't stay bad for long 356 00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:02.320 eventually it's going to be better than me I know how technology goes so like let's not 357 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:08.000 kid ourselves that this is an exponential change and I think a lot of people out there listening 358 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.440 are probably having a similar feeling to how I felt looking at Google Translate I said hey sooner 359 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:19.440 or later translations going away and sooner or later a lot of jobs are going away we can't 360 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:25.360 kid ourselves about that and that's that's always been true right but that you would see it 361 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.720 and immediately pivot I think that's that's not everybody because we tend to hold on and if you're 362 00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:36.800 really honest with yourself about uncomfortable truths then you will realize that the pain of 363 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:44.800 change is way less scary than the pain of staying the same the pain of change is way less scary 364 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.920 than the pain of staying the same the only reason that we don't see it that way is because the pain 365 00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:55.280 of staying the same is way off in the distance and we just don't have to worry about it right now 366 00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:01.680 but by the time you do have to worry about it when you're old and you have less time and you have 367 00:42:01.680 --> 00:42:09.600 your less energetic and you now are deeper in the wrong relationship or you are in the job 368 00:42:09.600 --> 00:42:18.080 that's wrong for you you know it's so interesting about that is I used to think that our 369 00:42:18.080 --> 00:42:25.920 version to change is some evolutionary thing like because we try to survive so if something's 370 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:32.800 safe then we prove you know we prove we don't take unnecessary risks because in prehistoric time 371 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.920 it may have killed us right but now I think it's actually kind of the opposite I feel like our 372 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:45.200 resistance to change is actually making us more extinct than to lean into change and Kisha had 373 00:42:45.200 --> 00:42:50.240 actually just had made a comment about this recently where we were getting interviewed on another 374 00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:57.120 podcast and where she talks about how a productivity hack is to actually lean into the change 375 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:03.440 and go with the current rather than resisting and and one of the realizations that we've kind 376 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:11.520 of had is all of our guests have indicated on some level that once you stop the resistance 377 00:43:11.520 --> 00:43:19.200 towards change you realize how much like time you're no longer wasting I totally I totally agree 378 00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:28.480 with you is is that you're staying the same but you there is there are truths inside of you that 379 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:34.480 you are not dealing with let's just say that right that's why people go into ayahuasca is they're like 380 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.320 oh my god I I finally had to deal with the thing that I wasn't going to deal with right yeah so 381 00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:48.000 so there's but but but on some level you know on some if you're you always know of course at night 382 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:53.760 when you lay your head down on the pillow you know and you there is that little voice that's saying 383 00:43:54.560 --> 00:44:02.960 you know you should have blah blah blah but then also you know you have this other thing that is 384 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:08.800 like pragmatism I think Sean at your point earlier of like resistance to change being this kind 385 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:16.240 of evolutionary benefit you know I think that that's I think that both are true and I think that 386 00:44:16.240 --> 00:44:23.600 it's more true in a world where let's say in the prehistoric world where change is glacial 387 00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:30.320 and then now we're in this world that's just transforming so quickly it's going to require this 388 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:38.080 fairly exhausting amount of pivoting and all of us are like sick right right right I'm sick of it 389 00:44:38.080 --> 00:44:43.600 I know you're everyone's like if you tell me oh just learn to code or okay I did that and I'm 390 00:44:43.600 --> 00:44:51.520 right right right yeah so like on one hand it means that like there's just going to be more 391 00:44:51.520 --> 00:44:56.960 change and and the more that we resist it the more that we're just going to get like blindsided 392 00:44:56.960 --> 00:45:02.240 because you can't be an ostrich with your head in the sand and say I'm I'm just not going to 393 00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:09.760 accept that AI is coming at the same time it's like well in this world of constant tumult 394 00:45:11.680 --> 00:45:17.920 what gives you a sense of gravity you know and so I I think that ironically there are going to be 395 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:23.920 you know I see this big resurgence but like tradition in some ways becomes more important

than 396 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.680 ever like like these community ties that bring us together you know people finding religion people 397 00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:36.240 getting back into family life people like refocusing on the domestic and like a small circle of 398 00:45:36.240 --> 00:45:43.680 people who they really believe in or shared ideologies and values like having that sense of 399 00:45:43.680 --> 00:45:51.440 like you need some gravity somewhere right we can't just be change change change change change change change change 400 00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:59.120 or we're going to say right right right gonna come right yeah that's it that's it 401 00:45:59.120 --> 00:46:05.280 jujitsu um that gives me a tremendous sense of gravity because it's one thing that you can't 402 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:12.880 shortcut and can automate and can't like that is a journey between you and yourself and you just 403 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:19.920 can go work on this very hard thing with a group of people that are also there to work on a really 404 00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:25.360 hard thing and I recommend that everybody has some kind of anchor like that in their life because 405 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:33.040 everything else is gonna keep changing it's gonna be hard so I wanted to ask you I mean obviously 406 00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:38.480 you've talked about going like kind of from success to success like building no mad going to 407 00:46:40.240 --> 00:46:45.040 Korea building all these different relationships and all these building out all these different 408 00:46:45.120 --> 00:46:52.160 bars and restaurants and you know um but I was curious in your career has there ever been 409 00:46:52.960 --> 00:47:01.040 uh a time where things really kind of didn't work or kind of fell apart for you um and if so what 410 00:47:01.040 --> 00:47:08.240 did you what did you learn from that experience a hundred percent and it's it I think entrepreneurship 411 00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:16.720 is super scary every day or trying to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat you know and and projects 412 00:47:16.720 --> 00:47:23.040 don't work out all the time employees don't work out um you know there's been a lot of 413 00:47:24.560 --> 00:47:31.280 roads that we've gone down just looking at LTH in the last five years as we've grown the company 414 00:47:32.240 --> 00:47:38.880 um it's been you've got all the normal difficulties of running a business and cash flow and trying 415 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:46.400 to pay salaries and you got 16 people around the world I think to to be an entrepreneur and to be a 416 00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:54.800 leader of uh women and men you have to have a sense of kind of relentless optimism and that's 417 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:03.040 that's me for sure like I just have a glass is half full kind of perspective where even if it's 418 00:48:03.040 --> 00:48:10.240 difficult it's because it's going somewhere and the hardships are always in service of

something you 419 00:48:10.240 --> 00:48:16.560 have to take a sense of perspective that this isn't the end of the movie you know like if you 420 00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:23.520 if you turn off rocky halfway through and he's just getting his shit kicked in and you know he 421 00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:31.520 doesn't have the girl and he's just a you know poor and in his like Philly stoop and like a lot of 422 00:48:31.520 --> 00:48:37.120 people get this perspective I think it made just they say oh I'm just going to watch a new movie 423 00:48:37.120 --> 00:48:43.600 like I'm just going to quit this right throw and you know okay but what good is any story without 424 00:48:43.600 --> 00:48:49.440 a dramatic arc and that's why we we love this kind of thing as as as human being I went to this 425 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:58.880 awesome entrepreneur event in in BAMF and there was this guy that was up talking to the group and 426 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:07.360 he helps build well water wells and villages and in African nations and you know he's 427 00:49:08.080 --> 00:49:14.960 thousands of kids are are like spared from civil war because he funds like security teams 428 00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:21.600 that like help keep the schools safe and I mean just tremendous work this guy in his life story and 429 00:49:21.600 --> 00:49:32.000 he like grew up in in the Amazon and he you know in like a local civil war and had seen just these 430 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:40.720 terrible things and he had dealt with insane hardship personally we asked him like dude how do 431 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:50.080 you how have you dealt so how he says it is I feel like I'm watching this game already knowing the 432 00:49:50.080 --> 00:49:57.600 score and already knowing that my team wins so I actually feel inspired seeing our team get scored 433 00:49:57.600 --> 00:50:04.720 on knowing that oh my god like they come back from this too yeah and so he said that I was like 434 00:50:04.720 --> 00:50:11.120 that is the that is some deep some chief coach ship right that some deep chief coach ship you're 435 00:50:11.120 --> 00:50:16.400 absolutely right and so that's that's really how I see it and and it's like look there's been times 436 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:20.800 you know it was there's been tough times in Korea and I've had bosses that I've fought with and 437 00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:28.800 I definitely you know I've I've definitely worked for some real jerks I've definitely had some 438 00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:36.160 some people that you know didn't behave in a way that I thought was ethical or in a way that I 439 00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:43.280 thought was good for the team you know I I have worked with people that I always say look man I've 440 00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:51.680 been treated I've been treated worse by better people and so I've seen all this and you know 441 00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:56.160 I've definitely there's been years certainly in my earlier 20s where I you know I had a lot of 442 00:50:56.160 --> 00:51:05.600 anger in my heart about just how some people that are given this gift of leadership and given 443 00:51:05.600 --> 00:51:15.280 this gift to steward a team can possibly look at that as a you know something to just take for granted 444 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:22.160 and just go and play and do whatever they want like I there's a lot of injustice in this world 445 00:51:22.640 --> 00:51:31.280 and how I have chosen to look at that in my life is okay what kind of leader do I want to be 446 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:37.680 and how do I make sure that my company grows to the maximum level that it possibly can responsibly 447 00:51:37.680 --> 00:51:43.600 so that I can bring in as many hardworking great people as I possibly can and give them the 448 00:51:43.600 --> 00:51:49.680 leadership experience and the company experience that I always thought was possible and have an 449 00:51:49.680 --> 00:51:56.160 awesome time together so it's you know I try to just do something positive with it and you know 450 00:51:56.160 --> 00:52:02.720 there's definitely some people that I'd be very happy to never interact with for the rest of my 451 00:52:02.720 --> 00:52:12.560 days on this earth but but I have to I have to choose to be grateful for times that I was 452 00:52:12.560 --> 00:52:20.560 slated or lied or you know misrepresented or whatever because it's there's good to come from it 453 00:52:20.560 --> 00:52:25.760 that's how I choose to look at it well thank you Chris so much for joining us today we appreciate 454 00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:29.840 this and I feel like we're going to need a part two because you have a lot of a lot more stories 455 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:36.560 that you can share with us but thank you for opening up and telling us a little bit about your 456 00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:43.280 travels and your career and it's so fascinating and I think your approach to just being so flexible 457 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:50.240 with your career is inspiring so thank you for that thanks for having me on and thanks for 458 00:52:50.240 --> 00:52:55.760 holding the space and thanks everybody for listening and hey if you've got more questions I'll 459 00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:07.920 I'll be happy to come back and talk to you I had an awesome time today that way you think