Ep 150 Creativity: What 10 years of making The Crazy One taught me의 전체 녹취록

COVID, it was all boot camps and you know, career coaches. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:44.959 And I felt like everybody had a seminar or a book or something they were trying to push, and that everybody had an agenda to get your money, like they're linked linked to advice. 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:49.040 But I never I this show was never about that, right? 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:53.199 It was never about attracting sponsors, it was never, it was not one of those things. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:58.720 I think in the same way that, like, over the life of the show, I've never spent a penny to promote it. 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:02.959 That it was always that look, if the content was good enough, it will find its audience. 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:14.319 And I think if anything, the the show and doing this thing has been a nice proof of concept for me that some things that I always thought or felt are true. 00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:19.279 And I don't know this, I think I talked about this maybe once in the life of the show. 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.920 This goes back to why I actually started doing this. 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:33.600 So I don't know what, 11 or 12 years ago, I had been actually writing blog posts because I felt like, you know, that serious people are writers. 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:39.839 The the the big flaw with that approach is that I am a designer by profession and a writer by necessity. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:45.360 Writing is not something that I love, but I did it because I felt like I should. 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:52.399 And I went along and was sort of doing that, and then it started to turn into doing more speaking gigs because people liked some of the content. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.800 And I remember I was doing one speaking gig in particular. 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.680 So there was one I'd been invited to Graz Austria. 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.480 So it's a town that's about two hours south of Vienna. 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:09.120 You fly into Vienna, you drive down through the Black Forest, uh, very, really cool town, like amazing food. 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:11.279 Didn't see it coming, had never heard of the festival. 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:17.199 The town, I think the town's biggest claim to fame is like that's where Arnold Schwarzenegger was from, was in Graz. 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:22.240 And I remember I went to do the 15 Seconds Festival because it looked really big and really cool, and it was. 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:23.279 It was all those things, right? 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:27.839 For whenever it existed, I continued to say it was like the best festival nobody ever heard of. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:36.720 But the first year was really impactful for me because it was the first time I was doing a lot of sort of canned talks, right? 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:44.879 It was sort of the talk that I thought everybody wanted, of like a lot of easy advice and sort of very like fortune cookie things out. 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:52.399 And I could just, it wasn't the content that I was passionate about, and I could tell it just it wasn't the sort of talk that I wanted to give anymore. 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:58.800 And so I decided that, like, look, you know, this this festival is big, but it's far enough away. 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.360 I actually want to take a swing and do something different. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:07.120 So I went into that particular festival, and that talk really decided that I want to do something personal. 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.720 I want to do something honest. 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:21.439 I want to do something that sort of broke away from what I was seeing everybody else doing, that it was a risk, but I thought it was one that was worth taking and one I could land because it was just the honesty was something I just felt drawn to. 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:23.759 So I went and I did the talk. 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:28.560 And the reason why I started the show is what happened after I did the talk. 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:38.560 So there was a speaker's reception, sort of like attendee reception afterwards that was kind of like a low-grade rave at this big warehouse on the outskirts in Austria. 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:47.680 And I'm standing there with a few other speakers that I'd met and people that I knew, and we're just all sort of chatting in this little circle, standing there in the middle of this basically warehouse. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:49.040 And my wife is with me. 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:56.560 And for any of you that know my wife or have seen her, like my wife Whitney is absolutely my better half, love of my life, fierce and true. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:02.800 But she is equally just sort of very direct and honest and human in her approach. 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:10.800 And what she was doing was something that I wasn't, was that she was actually watching what was going on in the outskirts of the circle that we were standing in. 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:24.399 And she noticed there was a young man who was standing there who clearly wanted to come to talk to one of us, but sort of either didn't know how to break into the conversation, didn't sort of know how to, you know, kind of come and start the conversation, right? 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.519 It was very much like this kind of high school dance kind of dynamic. 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:41.679 So, very much in her way, she walked over and talked to him to a minute, and then sort of put her arm around him and brought him over to the circle and brought him up to me and said, you know, look, he really wants to talk to you, isn't sure how to do it, you know, you two talk. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:42.639 So I said, okay. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.120 So I sort of stepped out of the circle and we're standing there. 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:51.759 And I'm standing with this young man who's probably, I'm guessing, early 20s, mid-20s at his latest, maybe. 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:55.679

And we're standing there, and he starts to cry. 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:59.759 It's not the reaction you would sort of expect in a moment like that. 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:04.879 It's not the reaction you would want, but he was clearly very, very emotional about something. 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:09.919 And so we stood there for a few minutes and he kind of calmed down and he started to talk. 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:14.320 And what he was telling me was that he really wanted to be creative. 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:16.480 He really wanted to be a designer. 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:21.360 And it's interesting in some of these countries where it's just it's culturally is it's different. 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:27.440 And I see it in through India and Asia and through parts of Europe, where all of his family were accountants. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:35.279 And his father was not supportive in any way of him going out to become a designer or become a creative. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:52.720 It almost felt like in the conversation we had that he had come out to his father like he was gay, where his father had basically disowned him, said if that was a profession that he wanted to follow, that he was not going to support him, he didn't want to talk to him. 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:59.360 It was clearly a very different dynamic than what I had really sort of seen or experienced before. 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.960 And he was really, understandably, really emotional about this. 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:11.200 And he went on to tell me that he had decided that he was going to basically sell most everything he owned to buy a ticket to this festival. 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:15.840 And that the outcome of what he found there was really going to determine what he was going to do next. 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:29.360 And that if he went there and he could find some people or some group or his tribe that he felt like really aligned with what he was saying, that then he was going to go against his family and just go make it work. 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:37.679 But, and I think this was the part that set me down a totally different path that I didn't see coming. 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:45.360 Because he'd said if he didn't, he was so distraught, he was so lost, he was so uncertain of what to do. 00:10:45.600 --> 00:11:03.360 He had decided that the other reason why he sold everything was that at the end of the festival, if he didn't find his people, if he didn't find somebody that he felt like gave him some hope, that he'd made plans to go to a bridge outside of town and he was going to kill himself. 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:08.080 I was, I think, understandably speechless. 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.080 I hadn't had a conversation like this before. 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.600 I wasn't sure what the right reaction should have been. 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:21.279 That I think obviously I've had a lot of experience with my father and things like that, that I'll talk about more in a minute. 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:30.879 So I like I understand how difficult it can be, but I had never understood being creative in this sort of terms or this sort of stakes. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:51.600 And he went on to tell me that my the talk I'd given, this first time I'd given something that was really personal and really honest, and I really shared what I had been going through, was the first time he felt like he heard somebody he could relate to, that all the rest of them were so polished and so overproduced that he felt like it was just an impossible standard that he couldn't attain. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.240 And I still talk to him today. 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:05.279 And actually, I've ended up over the course of the show, there's probably about five or six people that I've had very similar conversations with, and I keep in touch with all of them for obvious reasons. 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:20.159 But I remember flying back from that festival and sitting on the plane, and it just rocked me to my core because I just sat there thinking that I have a message, I have a voice, I have something that can have an impact. 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:29.600 And clearly, sitting there trying to write about it or write blog articles or whatever it was, that that wasn't going to be the way to get it done. 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:34.720 And so I landed back home in New York, and it was the third week in June. 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:41.519 And I really just sort of said, because look, empirically, when I thought about it, the world didn't need another podcast. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.759 The world didn't need another white guy who thought he knew better than everybody else to share something. 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.879 But I just couldn't get that kit out of my head. 00:12:48.960 --> 00:13:00.399 And that the I felt like the need for clarity, for honesty, for authenticity was so needed then that I had to do something differently. 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:09.360 And so that's the real story of why the show started, was because in that moment I felt like I have good material, I have these articles, and that's what the first couple episodes were, right? 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:14.879 It was just sort of regurgitations of talks and articles before I found my footing and I found my voice. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:30.799 But I think that that's the part for me where as we start to look back, it really set the foundation for, and I think doing the show has only validated for all of us that a few things are true, and they're still true today. 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:40.399 I I think one more than anything is that authenticity, humanity, realness cuts through. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.200 It cuts through the noise, and it especially the time now, right? 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.879 I feel like there's more noise and bullshit on LinkedIn and everywhere else than there ever has been. 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.480 There's more conjecture around what's going on

than there's ever been. 00:13:50.960 --> 00:14:08.799 But if you show up, whether it's in a job search, whether it's in your job, whether it's in creating content, whatever it is you do, I've always felt that if you showed up as your authentic self and you really put out stuff that you really felt and really shared, that you'll find your audience. 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:16.320 And I think I learned that, and that was sort of reinforced along the way because I'm always big on going out and studying with other people who do what I do. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:22.159 And along the journey, one of the times I sat down with a comedian who is that's what he does for his profession. 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.200 And I was always really interested around how do you write jokes, what was your process, how do you know what works. 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:29.759 And he told me something that very much aligned with that. 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:38.720 Where he said, Steve, the the biggest laughs I get are the always from the things that are the most honest, the most embarrassing, the most human. 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.399 That always gets the biggest laugh because it's almost like a tension release. 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:50.480 And I always thought that makes a lot of sense because I think even in a lot of doing something like this, the best episodes have been the most human. 00:14:50.559 --> 00:15:02.000 There have been episodes that I've done around gender bias and like a lot of the share the mic shows after the murder of George Floyd, where I'm like, I'm going, there's a decent chance I may end my career. 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:15.919 But that's always the interesting thing, is that I like I said, I think if you show up with authenticity, if you recognize that we all have a story to share. 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:18.159 Because I think that's the other part of this. 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:31.440 And I think I've had to come to grips with this in through doing the talks and doing the show, is that a lot of what I talk about, I don't really, I'm not really sure why it needs to be a talk or it needs to be a podcast. 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:35.120 Because a lot of the things to me feel very obvious. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:40.879 They feel like, oh, you look at that situation, you look at that problem, that feels like that should be the solution. 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:45.919 But I think for all of us, not just me, it's a trick, right? 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:51.600 That we think it is obvious, but whenever I stand on stage or I make a show and I say the thing, I see people write it down. 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:54.399 They take photos of the slide, they share the show. 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:59.440 So your story and your authenticity probably isn't as obvious as you think it is. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:04.480 That I think there's a lot of power and a lot of support and a lot of community in what that is. 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.480 And that's always been my argument. 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:15.840 Has been believing in yourself, standing up for yourself, understanding your brand, which is not a logo or a color or a website. 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:21.120 Your brand, as in what do you stand for, is it critically important. 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:29.919 Because I think that's the other thing that I've realized over the past 10 years is while a lot does change, a lot still stays the same. 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:37.600 That over 10 years, there's a lot of episodes that have remained the number one download because they're topics that still work. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:46.559 People still struggle with imposter syndrome and how to lead and how to do a lot of the things that I've talked about that I've struggled with over the course of the show. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:51.200 Now, I think there are parts of that that are just I've come to understand that they are evergreen. 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.799 I'll be honest, there are other parts that are wildly frustrating. 00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:03.360 That there's a lot of talks that I have and episodes that I've done around corporate culture and creativity and things like that that are just as popular today as they were 10 years ago. 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:04.640 That is frustrating. 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:12.319 The fact, like, I would hope that that content would age really badly, that we would learn and move on and to do those sort of things. 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:13.839 But I don't know. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.640 I think there's some things we learn and some things we don't. 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:36.880 But but I think in all of that, right, in thinking about authenticity and sharing your story, I think one of the best things that the show taught me, and I think one of the things that none of us do enough of, is the importance of finding time to focus and recognize that your creativity, your process, your approach, it's a tool, it's an it's an instrument. 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:54.319 And again, I think that's something to me that's been so valuable, is that the show forced me to create time to think about my process, to think about topics, to reflect on why I do things, to not just sort of hurtle headlong into the abyss. 00:17:54.559 --> 00:18:05.759 But that I think that every episode that I did where I tried to share some advice or some insight, what doubled for me as something that was sort of like a working session in real time, too. 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:12.240 That it gave me this structured time that was recurring, that was time to reflect. 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:18.319 And again, I think that it's just I think more and more people don't take that time to build it into their career. 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.160 They just sort of jump from fire to fire. 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:32.000 And I would be one of them, and I only got it because I forced myself to show up to a mic every week or so for 10 years until it became something that was more

embedded in who I am. 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.720 And again, I think it's just something to think about are you making time to do that? 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:38.160 Do you understand? 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:40.640 Are you really showing up as your authentic self or not? 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:43.359 Because if you're not, it is exhausting. 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:49.519 And I think I only recognized that after I decided to step away and change some of my priorities around that. 00:18:49.920 --> 00:19:04.720 But I think that's the other thing that I've really learned, and I know I mentioned that a little bit before, is that I think one of the things to me that I hope the show has done is to get people to recognize that more people are having the problems that you're having than you realize. 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:24.480 That, you know, again, the the number of episodes I've done on imposter syndrome, on like the value of design, on right, like all of those sort of things are recurring that I think they're all things that we struggle with, but we buy into this myth that there's a right way to do it, that there's a right way to go about this. 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:29.519 And I joke with people all the time, whenever I do mentoring, that like, look, nobody would tell you my career path was a good idea. 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:30.559 Because it's not. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:31.279 It wasn't. 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:42.160 It only was after it happened the same way that only after I opened my own studio, only after I launched the show, only after I've done it and it worked, then all of a sudden did everybody go, oh no, we always knew it was going to be a success. 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.559 Like, no, no, I remember the conversations. 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:46.559 No, you didn't. 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:47.519 Right. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.599 But I think there's also that being the person that just speaks the thing, right? 00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:08.799 That says it out loud, that you know, whether that's for your team, for your company, for your community, like whatever that is, to be able to be the person that actually shows up and says the thing that gives other people permission to be that way. 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:16.799 And I think whether that's from an emotional standpoint, whether it's from a creative standpoint, I still argue that everybody's creative, most just everybody forgot. 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.720 That I think that that that's the part of it is the journey. 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:28.480 And I think that was probably the next thing that I've really sort of thought about is, you know, 10 years is a decent chunk of time. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:37.200 And if I think back to who I was, the sort of work that I was doing whenever I started this, I'm nowhere near the same person that I am today. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:45.759 And I think that for a lot of us, we can we really pressure ourselves sort of at every moment or every step in the journey to have everything figured out. 00:20:46.400 --> 00:21:08.559 And I think that's maybe one of the things with the show that I've really tried to lean into, sometimes in spectacular fashion, is a willingness to demonstrate, hopefully, that I don't have everything figured out, that I've been laid off three times, that I've shared that journey, that I tried looking for a job and hoping it was going to be this big success just to face plant and have it not work out and have to come out with a backup plan. 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:18.559 But but again, I think that it's just allowing yourself the grace that whatever your plan was doesn't need to be what your plan is. 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:28.000 Because it's interesting that I think that's the thing I've realized in my career journey and the journey of making content and everything else, nobody really remembers that plan but you. 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.079 Nobody's disappointed by it but you. 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.559 Nobody knows it went off track but you. 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:42.640 That if you're doing it and you're happy, which often leads to then being successful successful, it's interesting how those things have changed. 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:52.720 But also just the recognition that I think that it's just what's around you is going to change too. 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.400 And I think that's a lot of what it is. 00:21:54.640 --> 00:22:15.440 When I think about sort of what's changed underneath me and around me, that you know, look, I went from From the highs of being featured in 10 Apple keynotes and like doing incredibly cool work to the lows of being laid off three times, to the industry changing, to seeing us devalued, then in-house and wildly valued, and then that going away and the rise of AI. 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.759 None of us could have predicted any of that. 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:28.000 And I think that that's the thing, is that you know, that's what led me to I took two hiatuses from the show because I lost my voice, I lost my way in what that was. 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:30.960 I felt like I wasn't sure I had anything to say anymore. 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:36.240 I felt deeply broken and lost at more than one point over the last decade. 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:54.240 And it I think that that's where the the show is maybe added some pressure or a different thing, because I think whenever you allegedly show up as somebody who can give other people advice and you don't know what to do with your own career, it's kind of like this atomic imposter syndrome that shows up. 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:55.920 But I think we all go through that moment, right? 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.759 Where we're supposed to have it together, where we're supposed to do those sort of things. 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:11.200 And I think a lot of it for me was I also have to acknowledge that probably what was the biggest discovery along this journey was the one that came from what was

episode 108. 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:12.559 I still remember it. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:15.920 And that was in 2020 when my father passed. 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:27.680 And I think that the run up to whether I he knew he was sick or not, but just we had conversations in 2019 and 2020 that he and I had never had before. 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:35.279 That, you know, 108 was an episode that I did to try to honor his life, to honor what he taught me, the career that, you know, had been handed down. 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:47.759 But it also was the recognition through those that I do think I have a bit of a different perspective that I have I am somebody that has been able to see almost all of the arc of a creative career. 00:23:48.079 --> 00:24:05.839 Of somebody that, you know, growing up with my dad, who was, you know, working, who owned an agency, who did a lot of those sort of things, who was very much in his prime, to then sort of struggling with relevancy, getting laid off, doing freelancing, sort of fading away, fighting, and then kind of accepting the lack of relevancy, I guess, in his work. 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:15.599 That, and I think that it was something along the way when I started the show that I didn't see, and it hit me like a freight train along the way, was in 2019. 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:30.079 I remember I was standing in our the backyard of the house I grew up in, and we were standing out there at the grill cooking dinner, and and all of a sudden he turned to me and he said, You know, if I'd have known you whenever I was still working as a creative, I'd have had a completely different career. 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:39.599 And it never occurred to me that the reason why I'm creating the show, why I'm trying to help all of you, was because in a lot of ways I was trying to save him. 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.000 He was my first boss, he was my first creative director, he was my dad, right? 00:24:44.079 --> 00:25:02.000 Like, and again, I think a lot of it was that I really have seen the very tangible damage that imposter syndrome does, that the fight for relevancy does, that what happens over the arc of your career as you start to come down the backside of what that looks like and you know, what do you want that to be? 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:16.880 But I think that, you know, for me, that was a lot of what I discovered along the way was actually starting to do this and create the content with one idea of why I was doing it, only to discover it was for a wildly different reason. 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:29.279 And has sort of continued that because his again, I know that the unspoken hypothesis he had was that he wasn't very talented, that, you know, again, he had a lot of ideas that he didn't think anybody wanted. 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:45.279 It was clear as day to me that after he passed and I cleaned out his studio, finding the postcards that were never sent, the promotional flyers for his work in addressed envelopes with stamps that were never sent, that where he'd let the imposter syndrome win. 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:57.440 And I know that for me, it's why I get so incredibly fired up about this stuff, because I've seen the impact to one of the people I've loved the most in my life. 00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:08.160 And again, I can't imagine that on the scale of I know, you know, whatever it is, the 150 countries where people listen to the show, what that is like spread across an entire world. 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.720 And it has been, right? 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:12.480 And I think I've tried to share that journey. 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:29.200 I think that a lot of what's been interesting to me has been also, I've long believed, right, and I think this goes back to the authenticity point that how you show up matters, how you work matters, how you treat people matters. 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:39.200 Now, I've certainly had more than a few moments where I have done things that I'm not proud of, treat people treated people in ways that I regret, and and other things along the way. 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.799 But I I I've always felt like that was important. 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.119 I think that maybe that's like the Pittsburger in me, because Pittsburgh is very sort of blue-collar. 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:53.359 You do what you say, very, you know, direct, hardworking, you show up, you know, what you say means something. 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:58.799 I think it's why I left New York to come back here, because it's just that that's just sort of who I am. 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:13.839 And it's been interesting because I think sort of in the episode 128 through 137, a lot of that was sort of talking about you know, leaving the system, of sort of leaving corporate culture, leaving agency life, trying to build my own thing with you know, crazy as my agency. 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:25.200 But I think that a lot of it for me, that whenever I've talked about it, I haven't talked about it as a sales pitch, but I think that the show, even my agency, that there is something different. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:26.240 I don't, I don't know what. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:27.279 I don't know if it's normal or not. 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.799 I don't see again, this is the problem whenever I sit here and talk to myself, is that you have a there you can take this a lot of different ways. 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:45.359 But I think a lot of this for me has been like sort of my thesis on that these things are important and that they do matter, having them play out. 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:58.799 Because I think starting my own agency, you're talking about a lot of stuff, it wasn't because it was a business story, it was because to me I wanted to prove that if you did things honestly and you made content for the right reason, people you'd find an audience and people would care. 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:06.400 That if you started a business and you treated people the right way and you really

kind of concentrated on what went into doing good work, that it would matter. 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:10.000 And I think to me, that's it, it's again as an unintended consequence. 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:15.680 One of the things I'm sort of proudest of is that the show found its following on zero spend and zero sponsors. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:23.920 That I'm four and a half years into an agency and 100% of our work, you know, has come over four and a half years, comes 100% on referral. 00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:33.200 And I, again, I think that I've argued it before, but I'm also very aware that sitting here is a very at times easy position. 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.920 Because you can talk about things in theory. 00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.799 You can talk about things in a way where there isn't that sort of consequence necessarily. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:50.000 And I think that's often why I bristle at a lot of the other quote-unquote experts, because they want to offer you things because it's going to fund their way of doing things, right? 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:52.880 Like you, you are almost their thesis, your dollars are their thesis. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.920 And what they're trying to prove is that I can say something that will get people to give me their money. 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.759 And whether I help them or not is almost kind of immaterial. 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:11.359 But for me, doing the show for free and those sort of things was the was a thesis that, like, look, if you are authentic, if you do show up, if you say the hard thing, if you do that stuff, it has an impact. 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:21.759 And it's been interesting because I think if anything, that journey has made me more honest and more bold and more of a believer in that approach. 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:25.279 And I think that that was the thing, right? 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:31.839 Because I think that's the honest, maybe harder truth in all this was that I never set out to make, I don't know what you'd even call this, right? 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.440 Like it wasn't this wasn't a self-help show for like myself with an audience that was watching. 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:39.680 But I but I think that's almost closer to what it's been. 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:41.119 I don't think that's a flaw in the show. 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:47.759 I think it might be the reason that it's felt honest instead of just like making content. 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.359 That sharing the things that have been the hardest, the layoffs, my father, the hiatus, right? 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:55.039 Like those weren't things that were planned. 00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:04.240 And there were definitely moments where it'd have been easier to not do the share of the mic shows, to not get candidly the death threats, and a lot of the stuff that came out of that. 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:14.480 But I think that was the thing I just wanted to try to prove to myself time and time again, and maybe

by extension help embolden some of you, that those were the things that I just couldn't avoid. 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:24.319 And that at some point, if you want to be the change, you have to stop criticizing the change, like or start criticizing, stop criticizing the environment, showing up as the change. 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:35.279 And I think that that was the thing for me that I always tried with varying success to do was to be able to show up in that sort of way. 00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:46.720 And I think that, like I said, I think for me, whenever I reflect on it, that's what I've taken away from the last 10 years is that we all have a story that's worth telling. 00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:51.680 That, you know, the reason why you are different, the reason why that story is different, that is your superpower. 00:30:51.839 --> 00:31:02.000 That is the thing that makes you different, that makes you great, and you are going to have to fight through a society and a corporation and a culture and a lot of things like that that are going to try to constantly tell you the opposite. 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.839 That they value compliance and being like everybody else, but somehow expect results to the contrary. 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:14.000 That again, like what you think is your weakness is the thing that makes you the strongest, the worth listening to. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:19.839 The thing that scares you the most is the thing that, you know, is the thing that's worth sharing. 00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:29.119 And that's the thing is you don't need a podcast, you don't need to be loud, you don't, you don't need a place or a schedule where you sort of tell the truth. 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:46.319 That again, I think in 10 years, the thing I'm proudest of is that in doing it the way that I wanted to, and talking about what actually mattered to me and staying honest, even when it was hard or scary or cost or whatever it was, it is worth it. 00:31:46.400 --> 00:32:02.319 It does have an impact, it does mean something that that I think in a lot of ways I've proven to myself that I have value, that I have something to say, that, and I think ultimately that that was why I started writing the articles way back in the day and started doing personal brands. 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:03.680 I've been laid off. 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:20.000 And it just strips you of your value, it strips you of you thinking like I'm worth anything, and that's what is so incredibly dehumanizing about looking for a job or getting laid off or getting fired or any of those sort of things, is that you enter this phase of like, can somebody please tell me that I have value? 00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:31.839 And so I think that's what's been the most interesting is that you know, still being human still matters, sharing still matters. 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:39.440 Doing these sort of things in an age where a lot of this, what quote unquote success looks like may feel very different, still matters. 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.160 And so this is the way I'm gonna keep soldiering on and keep kind of going after this. 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:48.240 I think hoping to help more of you be able to help with some of that. 00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.519 I've for those of you who don't know, I've left ADP list for various reasons that you can look up. 00:32:53.680 --> 00:33:01.599 Um that was created by design buddies, where I'm doing free mentoring there, I'm doing group sessions, I'm doing things like that. 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:08.799 So yeah, again, if you have those sort of things you want to talk about, that welcome to join me over there, and I'm happy to try to help out. 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:11.599 But but it is, and I think ultimately that's the thing, right? 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:15.519 I always would, if you ever made it to the end of the show, I always wondered how many people did. 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.160 To me, I guess that's the ultimate thing I wanted to say was just thank you. 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:23.599 Because a lot of ways, all of you have helped me so much, right? 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:32.720 And in because there's a way whenever you do this, where if it doesn't pan out, if you feel like you're talking to yourself, if you don't have any listeners, this doesn't last, right? 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:41.440 But I think you've given me the opportunity to share this stuff, to be there, to listen, to react, to come up to me at events, at conferences, and airports and everywhere else to stop and talk. 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:42.799 And it means something, right? 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.359 And I think that's why I always close the show to say, look, I know time is the only true luxury any of us have. 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.599 I'm always incredibly humbled that you want to spend any of it listening to me. 00:33:52.000 --> 00:34:01.680 Because I think that's what I always tried to show up as being somebody that was worth listening to in the ways that were easy and the ways that were hard. 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:10.719 But again, I think I am a better person, I'm a better creative, I'm a better husband, I'm a better all of those things because of all of you. 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:15.360 I don't know a lot of you, I don't know your names, I don't know your faces, but thank you. 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:23.119 If you've ever listened in in that 10 years, if you've ever done anything that left a comment, left a review, it meant more than you know, and it kept me going through all of it. 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.719 So a lot more planned, a lot more to talk about. 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:42.320 Like I said, we're not stopping the content, but it felt like just because of the 150 and the 10 years, it was worth 35 minutes to just stop and share and reflect, to sort of reinforce the direction to say thank you and to keep going. 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.199 So again, thank you for your time. 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:49.039 Like I always say, I know time is truly the only only real luxury any of us have. 00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:50.000 I'm always incredibly humble. 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.159 Do you want to spend any of it listening to me? 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.360 And as always, and for hopefully years still to come, stay crazy.