Episode 059 (CAH) - "A Conversation on Modern Masculinity & Modern Dating"의 전체 녹취록

know the old school way of thinking about masculinity. 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:13.279 Basically, what are the good parts that you took and then what are the things that you do differently that that kind of go against the the old school way of thinking? 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:14.000 Right. 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:17.199 I mean, this was gonna be a hot take. 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:22.879 I I do it, I do it, but you know, the whole like idea of courting, right? 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:29.519 And like paying for every date, or like hang, like yeah, yeah, paying on the first date, paying on all the dates. 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:31.279 Come on. 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:33.680 No, I I did it, sir. 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.120 It sucks, but you know, you you know, uh, I'll tell you this. 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.839 When we got married, I was like, Jesus Christ, thank you. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:46.399 Because now you know how much is in my bank account, and we don't have to play the silly game anymore. 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:47.759 Like, we just can't believe it. 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.720 Yeah, no, we're getting dinner. 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:53.040 Yeah. 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.079 So, okay, so that's one. 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:01.040 What's another? 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:02.160 Let me think. 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:03.199 I don't know. 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:12.480 I mean, I think just like maybe like just traditional, like masculine things of like yeah, of course I'm gonna say this. 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.240 Well, I think I have to be the one that like drives everywhere. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:19.120 Yes. 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:28.959 Because we're asking you the questions, but we have the uh teachers edition sent across from us and Liana over here because she's gonna give us the real answers. 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:48.399 Yeah, uh, I don't know, just any like like you know, kind of like machismo, like kind of peacocking of being like, yeah, I'm a man, like, you know, I uh like yeah, essentially any like performative like actions like that, I don't really like to like partake in. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:48.959 Okay. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:52.480 Liana, would you like to uh allow you to retort? 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:57.439 So like is there anything that Matt does that you're like okay, that's what I'm used to? 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:01.600 And then you're like, hey, you're not doing this. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:26.560 Um I think this has been yeah, yeah, she's wisely I think this has been one of the most 50-50 relationships I've been in. 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:31.279 I I mean, one, Matt, he lives in New York right now. 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.279 And he even when he lived in Texas, he's not from Texas. 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.279 So he didn't have a car here. 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.960 I was used to kind of driving and meeting whoever he was. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.000 And even now when he visits, I'll drive. 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:45.759 I think that's something that's been different. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:47.679 Yeah, I don't know. 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:57.679 I think that Matt does a lot of like little things that are still kind of like remnants of chivalry and being gentlemanli. 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:01.759 He'll open doors begrudgingly. 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.159 Yeah, like he'll hold my bags. 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:14.399 He holds like in New York, like the umbrellas, stuff like that. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:14.879 Okay. 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:29.759 So I think that there is, I think you can have chivalry in being a gentleman in a relationship without like the like the overbearing protectiveness and kind of like dominance that there is there. 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:36.879 And that I feel like this relationship kind of feels more of like an equal partnership, if that makes sense. 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:38.000 Okay. 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.600 And I mean, is that something that like are you cool with it? 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:47.679 Like, is that it's I know it's you said it's it's the most 50-50, but do you prefer it that way? 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:49.919 Is that something that you had to get used to? 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:51.360 You know, that that type of stuff. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:52.960 Like, what how do you feel about it? 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:57.200 I mean, I think Matt can attest to it, but it has been a transition. 00:09:59.120 --> 00:09:59.600 Yeah. 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:04.320 Yeah. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:06.399 Yeah. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.960 Uh I I I didn't make her coffee yesterday and she didn't talk to me for eight hours. 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:27.360 Oh, I said I said, uh, she hate I literally for reference, uh, I do a lot of like small things or just kind of like like one of my love languages is like active service or like gift giving. 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.080 So I I like just doing nice things for like Liana. 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.200 And like part of that is like I'll make her breakfast. 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:36.159 And I usually part I'll be the coffee. 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:41.519 And every literally every single time I've made Liana's coffee goes, I don't like it. 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:44.799 That's just Liana, though. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:49.279 I'm gonna tell you right now, she's very particular, she's like Letty. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:11:05.440 They're they're very particular about certain things, and it used to drive me insane because so Miss Letty would take Liana when she was let's say seven, six, five, you know, and and would uh take her to to her bedroom and then tuck her in. 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.000 And she would have to do it a certain way. 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:14.639 And Liana and Letty had this agreed procedural thing that they did, right? 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.840 And so when I took her up there and she's like, Oh, you need to tuck me in. 00:11:17.919 --> 00:11:25.360 So I'm tucking her

in, and I promise you I did it about the same damn way that Letty would do it, but she's like, You're not doing it right. 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:35.840 And I'm like, and I would take the covers back out, and then I would tuck her back in, you know, and push it around her sides, and then I was like, This is exactly, I promise you, this is exactly how Tom does it. 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:37.679 And she's like, You're not doing it right. 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:40.399 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:45.279 So I I can uh I feel for you because she is very particular about certain things. 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.080 So sometimes you're gonna be like, This is what you this is what you're getting. 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:53.600 Hey, this uh Yeah. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.879 I and I I was like, actually, can you make me a coffee? 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:59.679 And I said, I have to make you coffee, you don't like it. 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:01.440 She goes, Can you make me a coffee? 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.360 I said, But you're not gonna like it. 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:05.440 She said, You're gonna make me a coffee. 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.080 I was like, No, you're not gonna like it. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:14.639 And then I go downstairs, I come back up, and I literally, before I even off this, I say, Hello. 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:24.559 Just so you know, I do not have your coffee because you hate it and get mad at me. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:30.480 And she looks at me with the dirtiest look ever. 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:34.000 Oh my god. 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:43.039 And and then after five minutes of me being like, You don't like coffee, she goes, I I go, fine, I'll go back in and make her coffee. 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.440 She has this film this entire time. 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:48.480 She puts on her phone and walks down the stairs. 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.200 We go make her coffee. 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:54.159 Oh my god. 00:12:54.480 --> 00:13:00.240 So well So you you you were you were you're no longer teaching in the classroom. 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.240 You're still in the education uh educational field, I guess. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:13.120 What did you see anything different about teenager acts a teenager's act, you know, in regards to masculinity? 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:20.159 I mean, what did you were there any changes, I guess, in the twenty six years that you that you worked? 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:25.039 They're younger, so it you know, they're barely they're still incubating. 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:26.960 Honest to goodness, no. 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:39.279 I I think that when they're in a more controlled environment and they're used to certain things, it's a safer space for them to be who they are. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.200 And so the conversations flowed, right? 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.679 Because you offer those opportunities and you structure them. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:44.000 Right. 00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:54.399 And without the distractions of technology, you know, starting back in 1999 to 2024 when I left the classroom, it was pretty similar. 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.679 So uh the the mentality I wouldn't say was any different. 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:08.080 I would say technology obviously is a distractor and a deterrent to getting individuals to have conversations. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:17.120 So when that's eliminated, eliminated in the classroom environment, then they go back to doing what they're used to doing, which is talking. 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.840 So but it has to be very structured, right? 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:26.399 You have to give them opportunities, you have to structure the opportunity, you have to give them plans A and B if A doesn't work out. 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:36.720 So I think there's a there's a certain uh choreography, if you will, to how to get individuals to interact, not just males, right? 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.200 Because in that room you've got girls, you've got boys. 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:53.039 And so I I I think that even at the stage when they're freshmen, the boys tend to hang out with the boys. 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:54.720 They don't intermingle too much. 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.080 And the girls do the same thing, right? 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:03.840 So there's not a lot of commingling and the conversations are safer when it's boy to boy, they get more nervous with the girls. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:07.519 So I I don't that that never changed. 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:08.000 Yeah. 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:19.039 Well, there's and there's a certain expectation that's already set, and there are parameters that are that are different when you are in a controlled environment versus that changes when you get into the hallway. 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:19.759 Right. 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:24.320 So yeah, I I didn't see a lot of differences. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.320 So this is I guess for Liana and Matt. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:41.120 Do you think it's it's harder for for males or does it feel or I'm thinking it feels like younger males are in a no-in situation if they go either way with masculinity, right? 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.440 Do are they do they follow those? 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.639 Do they not, you know, do they go half and half? 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:52.320 I mean, it it it feels like anywhere they go, the perceptions are they're gonna be wrong anyway. 00:15:52.559 --> 00:16:25.039 Yeah, I think like especially with growing up and like being I feel like later high school, around the age where you say you like like high school and start talking to girls and also college, I feel like it was really put out a lot to like not be not be part of toxic masculinity and like even to like not approach girls, to be like if you approach girls FRs, like you're creepy, you're like or or or or like they want to be left alone, and then and then you get girls that are like, Why are no men

approaching us? 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:26.799 Like, you know, we want to meet people. 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:34.799 So it's kind of like a mixed bag of like, you know, you kind of no one really wins that. 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:42.320 And then I think what happened was we had this like huge wave of like, don't be, don't be part of talk to masculinity. 00:16:42.559 --> 00:17:04.079 And then that's when you get like through social media, especially a thousand calls, probably like 2020-ish, like a lot of like they call them like it's like kind of like performative men, like uh like the matcha men that like have little like you know, wired headphones and their matchas, and like kind of like they like pretend like they're reading literature. 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:20.480 Exactly, because like it's like I feel like I feel like a lot of guys, I mean I'm sure it's like some dudes that are actually like that, but I think a lot of guys will just kind of like go with the wave of like what girls like if they want to like you know talk to girls and like mingle and stuff. 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:34.000 So I think that once the the wave of talk to masculinity was over, it was oh, like let's be kind of like indie and a little bit like let's be like you know, yeah, I really honestly have like reading feminist literature and stuff like that. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:46.720 And so it's like performative in the sense of that, like they don't actually care about these things, it's just kind of like an excuse to like actually like strike a conversation with a woman and and kind of like just break the ice. 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:47.680 Liana? 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:50.319 I I agree with that. 00:17:50.480 --> 00:18:08.240 I think it's a lot of pandering to like the female the female gaze, um just to be close to women, which is a little bit pathetic, but shots fired. 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:49.200 But I think that even though it's disingenuous and there's no substance behind that, I do prefer that to like the alternative of the like alpha male, like manosphere character, um, where it's just that eternal echo chamber of this is how to be a high value male, and this is how you should talk to women, and this is how you should operate and how you make a lot of money and whatever. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.559 I think that is what's damaging. 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.519 I and I think that's that's part and parcel of of where we are, right? 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.359 Because like I was saying, it feels like either way you go, you're gonna be wrong. 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:03.839 And I think some people take it too far the other way. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.880 It reminds me of a there was a commercial, like a Super Bowl commercial, I don't know, like seven years ago. 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:10.640 And they made a big old deal about it. 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:12.079 It was like a Gillette commercial. 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.880 And I I completely disagree. 00:19:14.960 -->

00:19:18.559 I have issues with just a term toxic masculinity. 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.799 I think it's a made-up term, it doesn't exist. 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:40.400 But it's this there was one portion of that of that of that commercial where you see there's two guys, they're standing by a doorway, and a girl walks by, and one of the guys like, oh man, I'm gonna go talk to her, and the other guy stops him, you know, puts his hand and says, like, no, bro. 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:45.759 Like, so we're not gonna meet anyone now. 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:52.000 Like, you know, it's like so civilized gonna civilization's gonna die because you know, I can't go talk to this girl. 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:59.359 To me, it's like, you know, not that the the the the term is what I have an issue with, like does it exist? 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:00.000 Yes. 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.039 Is there a feeling that males should be a certain way? 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:04.160 Do people feel that way? 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:04.799 Yes. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.559 Is it an issue? 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:11.440 Yes, you know, but to me it's like masculinity is masculinity, right? 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.480 Being toxic, that means you're just an asshole. 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.880 You know, it's like yeah, it there is no, you know, there's no toxic to it. 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.519 It's like you're an asshole, like you know what I'm saying? 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.839 You're a bully, you're you know, your sexes, you're you know, all of those things, right? 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.359 But it has nothing to do with masculinity, it's masculinity is just that. 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:42.960 Okay, so but anyway, what you were talking about, like I I think because we're in this age, there are people that take it the other way, like Liana was saying about the Alpha Bros and all that stuff. 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:56.720 And you know, I was telling Liana that there was an article that I read a while back about male loneliness and and how they they had a term that they they called unpaired males. 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:01.440 So they were saying that you know they they have a they don't live as long. 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:15.920 You know, if you if you have a relationship, if you're with someone as a male, like you're gonna live longer because you know that your significant other is gonna be like, hey, you should really go look at a uh go go see a doctor about that, what you're feeling, or whatever, you know. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:21.440 And if you're an if you're a single male, if you're an unpaired male, you just won't do anything about it. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.640 You know what I'm saying? 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.039 And we all know those people, right? 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.680 We're like, hey man, but why are you limping? 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:30.720 You know what I'm saying? 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.160 Oh my knee, and I was like, you should go get that checked out. 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:47.359 And and I know because I I get that way sometimes too, you know, like I dislocated my shoulder, I don't know, like 10 years ago, and I went to go see the doctor about it, and he's like, You have two options, you know, surgery or uh physical therapy. 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:49.039 I was like, give me physical therapy. 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.599 And now every once in a while, it does hurt, right? 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.359 But I'm like, I'm good. 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:54.640 But you know what I'm saying? 00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:05.920 Like, unless Letty says, No, you need to really go see a doctor about that, you know, and then it It it just I can totally see how if I was single, I probably wouldn't have gone seen a doctor about it. 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.039 You know, it's just you feel like, oh, I got it. 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:09.759 You know. 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:20.000 Yeah, I I think having someone there to like kind of like keep you in check for like, oh, this is like be a gut check is is really important. 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:25.440 Tell me about Liana was saying that were you saying? 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.359 What you guys talking for an hour before then? 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.160 Yeah, we we we we set all these booby traps for you to to to fall into. 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.680 And it's being recorded, so she's like the hour three of the podcast. 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:40.079 Yeah. 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:49.680 She's gonna be well at 343, you said canceled cancelled. 00:22:50.480 --> 00:23:04.640 You're saying you had you had I guess I guess you had some thoughts about the current dating scene, about how you felt that that I guess that the women get to get their pick of the letter or something of that to to that. 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:06.319 Oh yeah. 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:07.279 Yeah. 00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.079 The modern dating scene is so interesting. 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:11.119 It's crazy. 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:24.160 It's from like my anecdotal experience and my everyone like a lot of like friends and their experiences, but also just even like statistically, it's pretty crazy. 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:32.319 Most of it is really just kind of the byproduct of social media on dating app. 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:39.039 I mean, it's I think they did like a statistic where it's like on dating apps. 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.880 It's about I think it's like this is how you generous. 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.000 I think it's like 40% women, 50% men. 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:47.920 And it's probably like 70-30. 00:23:48.160 --> 00:24:03.279 It's like a real imbalance, like and yeah, it's pretty much like just basic like small population of girls are are like looking to date versus like a large number of of men. 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:03.839 Right. 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:11.519 And yeah, so I think this with social media, like now like dating has become essentially

kind of globalized. 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:16.000 You know, it used to be like maybe like in my dad's generation, you have your small town. 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.480 Like, you know, like, oh, I like this person, I'm gonna go talk to them and like try a conversation. 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.000 And you might have like like one guy to be with. 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:29.119 But now, like, you know, you have like the world. 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:36.960 And now, like, you know, girls can get DM'd on Instagram by like any guy that follows them. 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:44.319 And on him, like, just like if you go on a guy's dating app versus a girl, it's like insane. 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:53.440 Like, like a girl, like for example, like a guy might have like 10 likes on his dating app, but then a girl would have like a hundred. 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:56.559 And like it's crazy. 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:10.960 And the reason behind that is girl, one, the the difference between like the population size of like the men and women on these apps to begin with, but also girls tend to be a lot more picky and a lot more selective than guys. 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:16.160 But yeah, pretty much for every like 10 likes a guy gets, a girl gets a hundred. 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:23.119 Well, and so she has like a ton of more options to pick from, so it can make dating pretty difficult for men. 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.720 Well, I I'll translate, I'll translate that for you, Matt. 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:36.880 Back in the day, back in the you know, late 1900s, let's let's just say third grade, fourth grade. 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:44.960 During Valentine's Day, you know, you would you would get the little Valentine's cards, and this was before the day that you had to give one to everyone. 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:50.960 Now, I mean, with when Liana was in school and Joaquin was in school, we had to buy one for 25 kids. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:51.519 Right. 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:56.799 But back in the day, back in the third grade, you got what you got. 00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:01.519 And then of course, the prettiest girls would get, you know, 20. 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.240 And then, you know, it just kind of goes down from there. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:05.519 I think it's the same thing. 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:15.599 You know, it's like you know, the best looking guy in the in the class got got 20, you know, Valentine's cards, and the rest of us got one, maybe. 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.880 You know, if you were lucky. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.960 That's what that's when you had to figure out, hey man, uh, you know what I'm saying? 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:29.599 I you gotta do you gotta do other, you gotta round out your your you know your personality, you gotta tell some jokes or something, you know. 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.319 Yeah, some things at the ready. 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.599 But I think that's that's the case, and it's always been the case. 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:40.079 Like, women are the choosers, like they're the ones that for the most part. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.319 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:42.960 --> 00:27:04.799 And I think like now it's that, but just scales by so much because now, like, for example, like I know no girls that are DMing any guy on on Instagram, like asking to like hang out or go on a date, or like, because like you said, like women are like traditionally like shoes, like the ones that kind of like pick. 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:14.640 Meanwhile, like if you're talking that to a girl at any given moment, she has 30 dudes now with social media and the dating app is like awesome. 00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:16.079 Number 31. 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.160 Hey, you know, they gotta go song. 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:21.759 Thank you, next, you know. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:32.079 Liana, any any thoughts on on the modern dating as as the as the uh as the chooser? 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.000 It's great, guys. 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:40.000 I don't see an issue. 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:57.759 I think what we see a lot, which I agree with Matt, That women are very selective. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:06.240 And I think part of that is because women nowadays are a lot less willing to settle. 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:25.279 I think now like women are more educated, they're more independent, they're less willing to date or marry somebody who doesn't have the same values or drive or makes, you know, kind of within the same tax bracket as them. 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:26.000 Yeah. 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:31.279 Which I think is just, you know, it comes with the territory. 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:44.079 I think it does suck that sometimes men get sucked into like again with the dating apps, like this algorithm that presents them with the same people that are telling them no over and over again. 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:51.839 Around three. 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:54.640 Maybe this time. 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:04.000 Yeah, I think I think that can be, you know, a hit to the to the ego. 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:21.440 But I also feel like people nowadays, especially some of my friends, are starting to step away from the dating apps again just because of that same issue that it's kind of just, you know, the same few people on these apps. 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:25.839 I think people want to try to make genuine connections again. 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:45.359 I think it's easy for things to get very surface level and very shallow on the dating app when you're looking directly at these people's like physical appearance and how tall they are and what they do for a living, and maybe like one funny joke. 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.160 It's kind of like a little, a little bio on them. 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.160 You're not really seeing the whole person. 00:29:50.400 --> 00:30:07.519 And I feel like people want more of a genuine connection where you get to know somebody for for them over like a gradual period

of time, and it's not just like this little blurb on your phone saying who this person is. 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:08.720 Yeah. 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.720 I think that that's like how it should be. 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:21.759 I think that broadly speaking, I feel like most people are on the dating apps and hinge, and that's how they meet. 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:32.400 And like you said, with people, like I I completely agree that women should not settle, especially now that they have the ability or they don't have to. 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:50.960 But my thing is that with these dating apps, like you said, if they're so superficial that they're if there's people aren't being chosen based off their values, they're being like this whole like the way these apps work, it's all like gamified, it's all like you know, what's their height, like how good looking are they? 00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:54.480 Like, you know, do their pictures make them appear like they're wealthy. 00:30:54.720 --> 00:31:28.799 Like the barrier to entry for for the day itself for men has become so high on these apps, based off just like what keeps people like engaged, which is like, you know, like if you're over six foot, if you like make a lot of money or like let's be honest, but I think that you know, having the genuine connections outside of the app, like the best couples you meet met in college, like through the same social group, because they actually like kind of knew each other before they like started to like really date. 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:37.920 And I feel like our generation needs to like you know, get back to like you know, organic kind of like connections and then see where that goes. 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.039 Wody, do you have any any thoughts on organic dating? 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:47.519 How would you handle it? 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.279 Like if you were Liana's age. 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:50.880 Wody, go ahead. 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.559 What are your thoughts on organic dating? 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:55.599 Okay, Matt. 00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:05.519 So just just for context, before this conversation, but before the podcast went live, we had a conversation about how Mr. 00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:13.119 Hyman is infamous for asking a question and then not waiting for the answer and then going off on his own. 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.640 And so that's it, that's exactly what just happened. 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:31.920 He asked me a question and then said, and so I've got these co-workers and they're no, I was providing context about about you know how how arranged marriages now are, you know, just a just a contrast. 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.319 That doesn't really mean the question just asked me. 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.519 But anyway. 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:39.359 But yeah, I I Matt, I see what you're saying. 00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:42.960 When when high man and I met, it was in college. 00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.839 It was friend groups that

were, you know, intertwined. 00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:53.759 So his friend group would socialize with my friend group, and it was extremely organic. 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.160 So we we knew each other on a different level before we started to date. 00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:04.000 So I think that yes, that step is skipped when you do these online apps. 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.119 And it's it's difficult to navigate, right? 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.920 So I I mean, I don't have an answer for it. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:38.319 I I just think that I was telling Liana and Jaime earlier that I had read something or seen something that alluded to the fact that now, you know, individuals who are in their 20s are stepping away from the apps and going more analog, so to speak, in the dating world, like just disconnecting from apps and going about it in a way that is more natural and putting, but it that also means you're putting yourself out there, right? 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:43.759 Which is is difficult because like you mentioned earlier, do I go uh introduce myself? 00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:50.640 Do I say hello, or will I be seen as a creep because they just want to come here and have a good time and not interact with the man? 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:57.680 So uh yeah, I I can see those those challenges, but those challenges were around before too, right? 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.519 So it's just I I don't I don't have a good answer. 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:02.720 I I don't know. 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:18.400 I think it's difficult, I think, all the way around, whether you go through the apps and you're looking at a completely superficial version of an individual, or you're putting yourself out there and it's still very hit or miss, right? 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.840 So I I I don't have a good answer. 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:26.079 What I think guys, let's get to the bottom of it. 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.320 We're solving this 10 and yeah. 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:33.039 Our best our best minds are cheered, right? 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.920 Let's figure this out. 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.039 The impossible possible tonight. 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:47.440 We were gonna do uh I already have in my mind to do this podcast. 00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:53.119 So we started kind of a series of of movies that make rules, right? 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.519 So we did one on vampires, right? 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:58.400 And and the rules that movies made for vampires. 00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:13.679 So the other thought was dating movies and and the rules that some movies made up on dating, like Fast Times, you know, Fast Times of Regima Hines and all the movie 1982, and one of the guys like has a five-point plan for dating. 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:19.920 But I think at the end, it it's you go back to the you know what we were taught as kids. 00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:30.159 Hey, just be yourself, you know, be genuine, don't you know, don't pretend to be something else, and then that's you'd let the chips fall where they may. 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.880 You know, I know that when Letty and I first actually went on, we didn't even go on a day. 00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:41.039 I think she just Oh, that which is funny, you were talking about you didn't drive. 00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:45.840 One of the first times that Letty and I really spoke is like she gave me a ride home. 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:46.559 Oh, yeah. 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.559 And I think that's the last time she drove for me. 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.599 Last time. 00:35:55.976 --> 00:35:57.416 Don't let this happen again. 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.039 That was in 1997. 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.000 Yeah, and it was uh all we did is is talk all night, honestly. 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.679 I mean, we just I found out she loved Frida Kahlo. 00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:13.199 And and at that time I was like, who is that? 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:15.039 Tell me about her, you know. 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:21.360 So it it's just one of those things, like there's you have to just be genuine, and that's what you know. 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.559 I think I think that's that's a start. 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:40.559 The other thing I was telling Liana is is something that we're faced with uh as an organization with my fraternity is we get we get uh you know, we meet every week and stuff like that, but we got uh one of the guys came up and said there are chat local chapters, right? 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.000 That are kids, you know, 19 to 20, 22. 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:52.159 They they don't know how to be brothers, meaning they don't they don't even know how to have a conversation with each other, you know what I'm saying? 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:53.280 That they're an organization. 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:56.480 But and and I think that's a big issue too. 00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:05.519 I find it really refreshing when I meet a young person and they're very good at having a conversation, just a quick conversation, or and you have to have that. 00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:11.440 I mean, when you start interviewing and all that stuff, man, those things catch that interviewer's eye. 00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.079 They're like, oh man, this this guy really has it together. 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:15.920 But you have to work at that. 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.000 You have to work at that, you know? 00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:22.800 So I think it's just having just being able to hold a conversation is important. 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:33.119 And to do that, you have to read, you have to, you know, be into a lot of things, be into music, being, you know, in order to to kind of find some common common ground. 00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.719 Yeah, but you also have to be in tune with the people around you, right? 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:52.239 So when you become so isolated and you can only speak about what you like and what you know, you've got to be able to read a room and to

be able to identify with other perspectives and have things to say outside your comfort zone to have some sort of knowledge. 00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:01.360 I think that that's where individuals are lacking now is yeah, you know, having things to talk about other than what they like. 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.920 Disagreeing with people, or what are you what are you talking about? 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:04.719 What are you talking about? 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.039 No, I'm saying like, what if you disagree with somebody? 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:08.559 You know what I'm saying? 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:17.440 Like, what if no, I'm not saying that you can't disagree, but I'm I mean to be able to step outside of your comfort zone of oh, well, tell me more. 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:18.559 I didn't know about that. 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:20.320 Right, you know, being more open. 00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:21.360 Correct. 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:22.159 Right. 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:23.679 So that's all. 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.400 Yeah, I think you're gonna get better about asking the questions. 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:34.079 Liana, tell us about your uh give us your elevator speech. 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.000 But on what? 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:43.920 On anything she wants. 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:46.719 Oh, don't do that. 00:38:46.960 --> 00:39:12.159 So on on dating, on no, so like your your your uh viewpoints on conversations, like you know when you meet someone and they're really good at at listening and and having a conversation, like what are your like when you were meeting people, like did you was that commonplace or did were they few and far in between the people that just you had a great conversation? 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:20.000 And it isn't the people that you met or friends, it's like there's people you just meet on the street that are really good at having a conversation. 00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:32.559 I say just a disclaimer, I am not the best conversationalist the wrong person. 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:36.079 She said it. 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.000 I do it by those who do. 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:41.840 Maybe we should ask Joaquin. 00:39:46.079 --> 00:40:00.159 Yeah, I mean, so I guess Well, well, okay, just just to add context, y'all just went to a wedding, you met a lot of of a Matt's family, and you had to have those conversations. 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:01.440 You had to be open. 00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:02.719 How did you handle that? 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:04.239 Like, what did you, you know what I'm saying? 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:05.039 How did you do that? 00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:11.840 Because you're not a very like yeah chatty, yeah, chatty person, you know, like chat, especially with people you don't know. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:17.599 Yeah, that's like you love your friends and you have fun with them, but this is meeting Matt's family. 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:19.199 Like, how did how did that go? 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:20.880 I guess is

the question. 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:28.559 Honestly, I feel like in situations like that, it's kind of like there's a mental prep. 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:30.880 Like, I kind of have to hype myself up for that. 00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:40.880 Or I know, okay, I'm going into this environment where I'm going to be met with a lot of people who've heard things about me or have seen pictures of me. 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.000 I know nothing about them. 00:40:49.280 --> 00:41:02.400 But honestly, I feel like when people are open to having a conversation with you, it's easy to get that going, especially when it's two people who don't know much about each other. 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:13.599 I feel like it's very easy to like bounce off of one another and talk about, you know, the highlights of where you're from, what your family does, what you do. 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:33.519 I got asked a lot about how me and Matt met Matt went, how long we've been dating, lots of questions about Texas and Austin, and then in I get to ask questions about their family and their relation to to Matthew or the bride and the groom for the wedding. 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:37.920 Honestly, I think those conversations were pretty, pretty seamless. 00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:44.000 I felt like also a lot a lot of Matt's family is very easy to talk to. 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:50.400 But I think it's more of like a mental a mental stamina game for me. 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:51.360 Yeah. 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:57.840 I Matt sometimes says that I'm I'm good at having conversations when I want to play ball. 00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:02.400 Tennis, right? 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:03.519 Back and forth. 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:07.119 Yeah, it's uh it's more of a sprint, it's not a marathon. 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:17.039 So in little like in pockets, I can I can make conversation, but well, I think mom is the same way in in that regard. 00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:22.239 Like when we go see friends that she's been friends with and she has a great time. 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:26.639 Like when I mean she is the life of the party, she's laughing, she's doing all that stuff. 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.840 And then when we leave, she's like, Oh my god, we gotta go. 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.480 Like she's she she's exhausted all her energies. 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.679 Yeah, and and I'm the total opposite, right? 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.360 I I love being around people. 00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:43.280 I you know, I grew up in a big family, so I was never alone. 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:44.719 So you know what I'm saying? 00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:54.239 So like when I got to college, I really it really like did a number on me because I was in my dorm room by myself, didn't know anybody, and I'm like, this sucks. 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:58.400 Like, I'm used to having people around talking to them and all this not. 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.320 So you go out and search for your friends or for other people. 00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:08.639 But Wowdy, I mean, when you go out, so you went to a Halloween party a couple weeks ago. 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:09.039 Yeah. 00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:13.920 Like, but those are friends that you have that you've had for I don't know, 10 years or whatever. 00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.599 Well, no, it was just Steph that was there that I knew. 00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:20.000 Well, right and her husband, yeah. 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:41.360 And then everybody else was new, so it was making conversation with new people, which was fine, but it it is depleting, like it's a social battery that but you know, if you met me, you wouldn't think that I'm more of an introvert than an extrovert. 00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:45.199 I need my alone time, I need time to recharge. 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:48.559 If there's a lot of social going on, I need a break. 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:54.639 Yeah, and that may come across as being more aloof or standoffish, but it's not. 00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.639 It's just I need, I need a I need time to myself, and then I'm good. 00:43:58.800 --> 00:43:59.280 Oh no. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.760 Oh no. 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:00.480 No. 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:03.840 And so that's that's non too. 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:04.800 Right. 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:06.000 Yeah. 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:18.559 So I think also I think also just because like I've gotten a lot better with making conversation, especially with people that I don't know just through work. 00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:20.320 Yeah, it's part of your job now. 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:29.920 Um I like I have I have my coworkers, of course, who I'm really close with, but also just getting a new set of patients every week. 00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:42.559 It kind of comes quicker being able to ask questions and learn things about people and relate to them because we have so many different types of people who come into the hospital. 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:45.119 So honestly, I feel like that's helped a lot. 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.719 Just kind of like exercising that that muscle. 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.519 But it it does, it does take work. 00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:52.880 And what is Matt like? 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.440 Is Matt the the the exact opposite? 00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:56.639 Oh, 100%. 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.320 I think actually, actually, I have a story. 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.079 Oh story time. 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.000 Wait, yeah, yeah, screen it first. 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:06.559 technically. 00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:22.159 This past weekend, uh when we were staying at Matt's mom's house, there were other cousins that were also staying at the house for this wedding. 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.679 And we were upstairs in our little like room area. 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:28.880 We were about to take a nap. 00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:29.679 Me and Matthew. 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:31.599 We were gonna take a nap. 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.719

And the cousins arrived, and I hadn't met them yet. 00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:36.000 Matt hadn't seen them yet. 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.639 So they came upstairs to say hi. 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.679 We were both before this, we were both so tired, ready to take a nap. 00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:45.280 They come up to say hi. 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:48.639 I think Matt cracked a couple jokes and they were all laughing. 00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:50.159 They went back downstairs. 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.320 Matthew was like, they laughed at my jokes. 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:53.840 I am energized. 00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:56.800 I'm ready to go. 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.599 I'm ready to go. 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:00.000 He said, bye. 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:01.039 I'm going downstairs. 00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.320 You can take a nap too. 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:06.800 I went downstairs. 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.280 I can hear you both laughing at me. 00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:13.840 I can see that though. 00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:14.719 I I agree. 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:19.519 Like I do get there's certain people that Letty and I have this conversation all the time. 00:46:19.760 --> 00:46:31.599 There are certain people that I just love being around because they're complete energy, and I feel like a vampire because I just I just soak up all that energy, and it doesn't feel like their drain. 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:33.519 It feels like they're like Asim. 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.119 Aseem listen to the podcast. 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:39.199 Asim is one of those people that just like he's energy. 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:40.000 Stan. 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:56.400 I'm not loved to hang around those guys when we're in college because I you know they they feed you that energy, and then it seems like they just have endless and abundance of so I love being around those people, and there's you know, certain people that that are kind of like that. 00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:02.559 But to me, I I I see that when whenever you're talking to someone and the conversation is going really well. 00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:13.599 I know when we played poker a couple of weeks ago, like maybe a month ago, that Rob was over here and and Brad and we were we were having a great time. 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:23.039 I mean, we were just the conversation went all over the place, but it like you feel good, like it was like, man, that was that was a great time. 00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:26.239 And so I could see that you get energized, you're like, oh yeah, I don't need to go to sleep. 00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:27.440 We can keep this going. 00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:29.039 Let's keep the party going. 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:32.880 And non was like, no, I'm going. 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:36.639 Yeah, that was laughing. 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.119 But then sometimes I'm like, I'm bombing, I'm gonna go to bed. 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:44.800 These jokes are laughing. 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:48.320 I'm getting out of here. 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:49.920 I got a light. 00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:50.400 Yeah. 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:52.239 It must be because I'm tired. 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:53.039 Yeah. 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:55.440 Thank you. 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:57.360 Yeah. 00:47:57.920 --> 00:47:59.599 Thank you, and good night. 00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:05.199 Oh my god. 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:08.559 So we need to we need to wrap it up, right? 00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:12.880 And we usually do a we we do a verdict, we vote on something. 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:21.599 What what do you think the the verdict would be on modern masculinity and dating and having a conversation? 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:24.320 We went everywhere. 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Well, yes, we had the conversation. 00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:32.320 Gosh. 00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:35.599 That's a really good I don't know. 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:38.000 How how do we tie it up in a bow? 00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:40.480 So we'll vote, right? 00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:45.679 So with masculinity, take the good parts of it that you were taught. 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:59.679 You know, there's there is you know, there is the dark side to it, but take the good parts of of masculinity and then add your stuff to it, you know, and just kind of make it your own and you know, be able to have a good conversation. 00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:05.199 So I mean that that ties everything up. 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:06.400 I think a hard no. 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:07.840 Hard no. 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:11.599 I just a hard no on that rolling. 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.559 I have something to say. 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:20.639 All right, what do you got now? 00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.079 Uh tell us about the manosphere. 00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:30.400 Oh that's not gonna wrap it up. 00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:31.599 Yeah, we'd be here forever. 00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:43.920 I'd say as far as masculinity, I feel like men just needs to they need to step outside of themselves every once in a while. 00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:57.519 I think a lot of masculinity is, you know, traditionally it's like being the provider, doing, you know, these man things, these chivalrous things, you're you know, you're working, you're whatever. 00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:05.760 But I feel like modern days being masculine can also just mean like treating other people with respect. 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:12.159 Being a leader in your own way, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to assert dominance over the people around you. 00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:14.719 It just means like be a good person. 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:17.920 And I feel like whatever that looks like for you, cheers. 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:22.480 Yeah. 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:30.239 And then I feel like as far as communication, um, sometimes it's it's a muscle you have to work. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:35.760 I feel like sometimes conversation doesn't come as easy to certain people, like hey me. 00:50:36.320

--> 00:50:51.440 But I feel like with practice, and it's also kind of like a rejection therapy thing, you have to you have to be willing to have awkward interactions and walk away and be like, okay, I'm not I'm not a bad person because that conversation didn't go so well. 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:51.920 Yeah. 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:53.440 Um okay, Wadi. 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:55.760 Any last words? 00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.599 So I I I want to add on to the masculinity piece. 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:13.280 And I think that yes, like at the end of the day, be a good person, but masculinity also needs to have a layer of vulnerability to, and I'm not saying being overly vulnerable, but I'm saying like taking risks, right? 00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:13.920 Okay. 00:51:14.719 --> 00:51:19.760 And being honest about how you're feeling and being truthful rather than performative, right? 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.239 It's the complete opposite of performative gestures. 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:26.800 It's doing it because you really care about somebody and that you're you're open about that. 00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.280 And that that's a layer of vulnerability. 00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:35.039 Then about communication, I think that it does tie in with that masculinity component, right? 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:53.360 The better communicate, the better level of communication that you have with your partner or in a relationship period, whether it's with a best friend or a an organization or at work, the that level of communication needs to be genuine. 00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:53.920 Right. 00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:56.719 And also with the audience in mind. 00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:59.599 And I think that people need to also take in their audience. 00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:07.679 Like non mentioned, doing things at work and being that communicator at work is going to be very different than the communication that she has with her friends. 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:16.719 So being able to read a room and act accordingly is a muscle that you have to work because that same level of communication doesn't work across the board. 00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:18.719 And that can be exhausting for some people. 00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:30.079 So also being able to honor that and know that within yourself and know how to recalibrate when you need to and take that time to step away from a minute, take a nap, or do whatever you need to do to get that muscle back. 00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:46.320 But yeah, I think it the base of everything, whether like Matt spoke about online communication is very different than in-person communication, is and those relationships have to be built on honest and open and transparent communication. 00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:50.800 So I think that that's something that we can tie in with all the pieces. 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.400 All right, Matthew Ragsdale, you get the last word. 00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:57.920 Yeah, scratch all of that. 00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:03.840 I'm about to say the truth. 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:14.880 No, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think just like like your own says, like I I just think that general kindness. 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:32.239 I think a lot of the chauvera things that are associated with masculinity can are not mutually exclusive with just being a good person and being kind and doing something nice because you care about people, have a general level of respect for people. 00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:46.719 Yeah, and I think that introverted communication, you know, some people are not introverted, some people are extroverted, but yeah, I just kind of have to find that nice middle ground where you can just hold a conversation and being curious. 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:53.840 I feel like not a lot of people try and like be open-minded and ask questions and to have a conversation. 00:53:54.239 --> 00:54:02.320 I think that 90% conversations can be maintained if you just ask the same questions that someone asks you right back to them. 00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:09.440 So just being willing to be curious and and acting like you have something to learn from someone. 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.719 I think that is is kind of like the foundation of it. 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:13.360 Okay. 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.639 Well, that's good. 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.760 Wrap all that up and Liana hit the gavel. 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.639 I think we'll border proof all of that. 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:22.960 There you go. 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:26.480 Yeah. 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:28.880 Thank you and good night. 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:33.440 Thank you for listening. 00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:44.400 If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on your social media, and or leave a rating and review. 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:48.880 To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram and X. 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:52.800 So thanks again, and we'll see you next time.