Episode 339: Fr. Shane Deman on his book The Pastoral Tip of the Day (November 10, 2026)의 전체 녹취록

priesthood. But 70 00:04:01.150 --> 00:04:03.289 there are some just very practical things that can be 71 00:04:03.330 --> 00:04:07.500 helpful in how ministry comes about. And so when I 72 00:04:07.530 --> 00:04:11.539 was teaching classes, the idea came to me to always 73 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.150 start with the lectures with an opening prayer, And then 74 00:04:14.210 --> 00:04:16.269 I would just, you know, give the seminarians a quick 75 00:04:16.310 --> 00:04:19.490 pastoral tip of the day. You know, just got it 76 00:04:19.550 --> 00:04:21.129 out there very quickly. And then we moved on with 77 00:04:21.149 --> 00:04:24.589 the lecture. And I wasn't sure how that was going 78 00:04:24.610 --> 00:04:26.610 to be received. But by the end of my first 79 00:04:26.649 --> 00:04:29.240 semester teaching, the guys were really catching on to these 80 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:31.339 and they were excited. And some of them were actually 81 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.519 keeping a running list. And so over a few years 82 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:39.279 of doing this, the list started to compile. And they said, 83 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:42.449 Father Shane, you've got to publish this. And I thought, well, 84 00:04:42.470 --> 00:04:44.670 I don't have the time to put this together, but 85 00:04:44.970 --> 00:04:47.819 actually some space opened up in my calendar in the 86 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:51.379 summer of 2025 where I started to format it and 87 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:54.600 make sure I expanded it to an entire year. And 88 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:57.560 I added scripture passages to kind of set the stage 89 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:01.910 of what the reflection might be linked to in terms 90 00:05:01.949 --> 00:05:04.689 of ministry or at least our relationship with the Lord. 91 00:05:06.290 --> 00:05:08.089 I added some more because I certainly didn't get through 92 00:05:08.089 --> 00:05:11.459 365 of them. just when talking to the seminarians before 93 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.860 every lecture in daily classes. So that's kind of how 94 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:19.199 the book came about. And I know some seminarians that 95 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:20.610 have been reading it, and they said they've been really 96 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.189 grateful for it. So if it helps a few guys, 97 00:05:23.389 --> 00:05:24.110 you know, all the better. 98 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:26.589 I think it will help a lot of people. One 99 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:29.050 of the things you start out with is the discussion 100 00:05:29.089 --> 00:05:33.810 of nurturing friendships, both with priests and the laity, and 101 00:05:34.129 --> 00:05:37.060 how important that is. You know, we do find, especially 102 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:41.660 in parishes, a lot of priests are living alone. which 103 00:05:41.699 --> 00:05:44.500 is just a recipe for disaster that eventually the church 104 00:05:44.540 --> 00:05:45.939 is going to have to deal with that. It's a 105 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:49.110 recipe for disaster, I think, on all sorts of levels. 106 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:52.689 But loneliness is one of them. And so the importance 107 00:05:52.730 --> 00:05:53.509 of friendships. 108 00:05:55.310 --> 00:06:01.089 Yeah, so celibacy doesn't imply loneliness, right? You know, if 109 00:06:01.129 --> 00:06:03.470 someone is consecrated to the Lord and if someone is 110 00:06:03.490 --> 00:06:07.730 foregoing the gift and the beauty of married life, in 111 00:06:07.790 --> 00:06:10.470 order to serve, you know, in a more consecrated state 112 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:14.670 as a religious, well, that doesn't mean that someone has 113 00:06:14.709 --> 00:06:19.209 to be lonely, right? In fact, Father Hazing, the rector 114 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:23.250 of Kenrick Seminary, often states that diocesan priesthood, and really 115 00:06:23.290 --> 00:06:29.449 priesthood in general, requires a fluency in relationship, you know, 116 00:06:29.529 --> 00:06:34.899 being fluent in establishing and sustaining relationships. that's true among 117 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:38.779 other priests and deacons. That's true among how we serve 118 00:06:38.819 --> 00:06:42.279 consecrated religious. And it's certainly true in how we sustain 119 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.129 relationships within the parish. And that doesn't mean that we're 120 00:06:45.170 --> 00:06:47.990 necessarily best friends with everybody, but we do have to 121 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:51.589 have the capacity to build and sustain relationships for the 122 00:06:51.629 --> 00:06:54.269 sake of mission, for the sake of evangelization. 123 00:06:56.439 --> 00:06:59.040 And friendship is just such an important part of life. 124 00:06:59.500 --> 00:06:59.800 Sure. 125 00:06:59.819 --> 00:07:03.360 I mean, you know, to have that kind of love 126 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:06.939 between people is so important. I mean, it's important in marriage, 127 00:07:07.300 --> 00:07:10.670 you know, hopefully your spouse is also your friend. 128 00:07:10.730 --> 00:07:11.050 You know? 129 00:07:11.089 --> 00:07:11.410 Yeah. 130 00:07:11.829 --> 00:07:14.589 Um, no, absolutely. That's a theme that resonates with so 131 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:18.889 many people, those who are losing their ability to sustain relationship. 132 00:07:18.949 --> 00:07:22.529 If they're overly attached to technology, uh, marriages that might 133 00:07:22.550 --> 00:07:26.220 be struggling priests that might feel isolated or lonely, um, 134 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.800 we really want seminarians coming out of their formation and 135 00:07:31.939 --> 00:07:35.839 into the initial days of priesthood with a robust understanding 136 00:07:35.899 --> 00:07:40.139 and capability of friendship and, and sustaining deep and abiding 137 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.420 intimate relationships. And if that, if that, you know, doesn't happen, 138 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.750 it's going to be kind of hard plowing

throughout their priesthood. 139 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:52.689 One thing that runs through quite a number of your 140 00:07:52.750 --> 00:07:57.259 tips is, um, Well, one is, you know, what obviously 141 00:07:57.300 --> 00:08:01.540 the confessional is this place of complete privacy, but you're 142 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.420 really having a sense of the confessional in and out 143 00:08:04.699 --> 00:08:08.600 of the confessional inside and outside. Because very often people 144 00:08:08.660 --> 00:08:12.079 come and just talk to you outside the confessional with 145 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:18.509 their lives and their stories. But also within the parish 146 00:08:18.829 --> 00:08:21.670 and your life in general, you're sharing your stories with 147 00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:25.230 other people. That, again, if you don't know your audience, 148 00:08:25.389 --> 00:08:30.750 your stories could be misinterpreted. You're hearing people's stories, you're 149 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:36.559 sharing your own, and this sense of guarding communication as 150 00:08:36.620 --> 00:08:37.200 a priest. 151 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.639 Right. Yeah, it's really tricky on a number of levels, 152 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:43.950 and I try to make the seminarians and newly ordained 153 00:08:44.009 --> 00:08:47.629 priests aware of this. But to receive someone in that 154 00:08:47.710 --> 00:08:51.549 very sacred ground of the confessional is a very holy work. 155 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.629 And they're coming in very vulnerably. It's a humiliating experience 156 00:08:56.669 --> 00:08:59.070 to come in and have to humbly admit our own 157 00:08:59.190 --> 00:09:02.830 sins and our own shortcomings. So that has to be 158 00:09:02.889 --> 00:09:08.940 received with great sacredness and reverence. And that information is sealed. 159 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:12.179 And I try and tell the seminarians, you're going to 160 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.460 learn a lot. Some people come in and they discuss 161 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.080 the quality and the dynamics of their families and Some 162 00:09:19.100 --> 00:09:22.299 people come to confession and they start revealing things about coworkers, 163 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.309 you know, or other people in the parish that maybe 164 00:09:26.350 --> 00:09:30.409 they've engaged in sinful activity with. And all of that 165 00:09:30.450 --> 00:09:35.210 remains sealed. And all of that, it weighs on a 166 00:09:35.269 --> 00:09:37.460 priest's heart and that needs to be related back to 167 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:40.360 the Lord. But it isn't things that, you know, those 168 00:09:40.419 --> 00:09:42.879 aren't things that can be used in other ways. And 169 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:46.950 that's also true just in pastoral ministries. If someone just 170 00:09:47.009 --> 00:09:49.889 comes to you and is looking for pastoral counseling, all 171 00:09:49.909 --> 00:09:53.169 of that has to be cared for with great confidentiality 172 00:09:53.210 --> 00:09:59.269 and respect to never abuse that confidentiality, nor to assert 173 00:09:59.289 --> 00:10:03.360 a superstition. things or, you know, giving people baiting questions 174 00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:07.139 about things that you've learned just through pastoral counseling sessions. 175 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:12.100 So how you handle information well and remain available to 176 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:14.720 everybody else in the parish that may or may not 177 00:10:14.779 --> 00:10:18.539 be connected to that information, you know, does require some 178 00:10:18.590 --> 00:10:19.379 professional care. 179 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.720 And it's certainly, we call it affective maturity, like to 180 00:10:24.779 --> 00:10:31.230 really just keep it, give it to the Lord. Yeah. 181 00:10:31.929 --> 00:10:34.909 There's a lot of just practical advice of running a parish, 182 00:10:34.990 --> 00:10:39.789 building in grounds, you know, tapping into the gifts of 183 00:10:39.830 --> 00:10:44.450 the laity of people around you to do things that 184 00:10:44.730 --> 00:10:47.600 they'd gladly do if asked or that offer. 185 00:10:47.649 --> 00:10:47.889 Yeah. 186 00:10:50.149 --> 00:10:53.730 And that's kind of a gift, right? To not micromanage everything, 187 00:10:53.789 --> 00:10:57.429 but to sort of open it up to the Lord's 188 00:10:57.529 --> 00:10:59.730 plan in a parish. Yeah. 189 00:11:00.629 --> 00:11:04.669 Yeah, I noticed this. I was serving in Holy Trinity 190 00:11:04.700 --> 00:11:08.179 Parish in Fort Dodge, Iowa for four years. And in 191 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:11.480 my last year there, I noticed that there were some 192 00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:15.379 elderly really struggling with things, just physical things, raking leaves. 193 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:20.559 shoveling snow, doing odds and ends around their homes. And 194 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.120 I noticed there was a lot of other men in 195 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.299 the parish who wanted to get involved, who wanted to 196 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:26.080 assist others, but they didn't want to go to meetings. 197 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:29.600 They don't want to join a committee. So we started 198 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:34.000 the St. Joseph's Handyman Club. And an email would go 199 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:36.559 out whenever there was a need. And it could be 200 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.059 as simple as maybe an elderly woman called into the 201 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:42.419 parish and said, I could use a handyman to come 202 00:11:42.580 --> 00:11:46.340 and rehang a towel rack in my bathroom. You know, 203 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.039 and there's men in the parish who just were thrilled 204 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:50.570 to say, oh, I would love to go help with that. 205 00:11:50.889 --> 00:11:52.570 As long as I don't have to go into any meetings, 206 00:11:53.009 --> 00:11:55.409 don't have to read any books, don't belong to a committee. 207

00:11:56.269 --> 00:11:58.230 And so an email would go out. First one to 208 00:11:58.289 --> 00:12:01.980 respond would say yes and just go take care of it. 209 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.399 There's just so many countless ways that people can give 210 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:08.440 of their time, talent and treasure in the life of 211 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:12.000 a parish. And we need to consistently unlock that with 212 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:15.220 greater creativity and Of course, the challenge with that is 213 00:12:15.259 --> 00:12:18.179 the more volunteers you get, you know, somebody needs to 214 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:21.279 be mentoring them, guiding them and offering stewardship to them, 215 00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:27.269 which creates, you know, more leadership responsibilities for the pastor 216 00:12:27.389 --> 00:12:31.669 or the entire parish staff. So how does that expand 217 00:12:31.929 --> 00:12:34.889 exponentially in a way that's manageable for the staff? That 218 00:12:34.929 --> 00:12:38.840 always has to be, you know, taken carefully. But again, 219 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:42.100 there's just lots of ways that parishioners can love to serve. 220 00:12:42.549 --> 00:12:44.830 and be of support to their parish. And it doesn't 221 00:12:44.850 --> 00:12:46.809 have to just being a lector at Sunday Mass. 222 00:12:48.970 --> 00:12:51.389 And speaking of the parish staff, you have many tips 223 00:12:51.460 --> 00:12:53.279 about hiring the parish. 224 00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:55.019 Yes. 225 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:59.580 We all know it can be extremely problematic. I mean, 226 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:04.039 they say that in surveys, the two reasons that Catholics 227 00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:07.519 leave their parish and maybe leave the church altogether, the 228 00:13:07.590 --> 00:13:10.789 first is the homily and the second is the parish secretaries. 229 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:11.600 Sure. 230 00:13:11.750 --> 00:13:17.019 That's very interesting. So who you hire really matters and 231 00:13:17.259 --> 00:13:18.360 doing it prayerfully. 232 00:13:18.379 --> 00:13:22.379 I think a lot of priests recognize that we have 233 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.139 to be hiring for mission. We have to be people 234 00:13:25.179 --> 00:13:27.659 who are, we have to be welcoming people on board 235 00:13:27.700 --> 00:13:31.539 to the mission who are well-formed, well-catechized and are thinking 236 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.940 with the mind and heart of the church and who 237 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:37.120 bring a lot of professional skill sets. There are things 238 00:13:37.179 --> 00:13:39.080 to be learned on the job site. How do we 239 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.460 maintain sacramental records? You know, How does the parish interact 240 00:13:42.500 --> 00:13:45.480 with a local school? Um, but if someone is already 241 00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:50.210 well-formed and well catechized, hopefully, you know, they're, they're prepared 242 00:13:50.809 --> 00:13:53.070 to step up and be part of stepping and be 243 00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:56.570 part of the mission of the parish. Um, but it 244 00:13:56.629 --> 00:13:58.590 isn't easy. You know, there's, there's not a lot of 245 00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:00.879 people who want to work for the church, especially when 246 00:14:00.889 --> 00:14:04.399 the church cannot offer the same salaries that perhaps other 247 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:09.919 corporations can. Um, And sometimes working for the church requires 248 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.139 evening or weekend hours. And sometimes we have to be 249 00:14:13.179 --> 00:14:16.500 available to walk with people in their grief or emergencies 250 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:20.809 and other heavy situations. So really meeting people where they're 251 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:23.649 at in the complexities of all of their lives and 252 00:14:23.710 --> 00:14:27.110 offering them a professional and a charitable response of faith 253 00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:31.210 that really greets them and welcomes them. That's a tough balance. 254 00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:34.029 And we have to consistently find the right people and 255 00:14:34.129 --> 00:14:36.549 ask the Lord to reveal to us who are the 256 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:38.169 right people to help us in this mission? 257 00:14:39.149 --> 00:14:42.350 I mean, the parish secretary is often people's first point 258 00:14:42.409 --> 00:14:43.309 of contact. 259 00:14:43.629 --> 00:14:44.110 Sure. 260 00:14:44.629 --> 00:14:48.690 My one crazy story that I have is I was 261 00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:51.269 working with a young woman in the parish who'd had 262 00:14:51.289 --> 00:14:55.169 a miscarriage, and it was a very, very weird, sticky, 263 00:14:55.250 --> 00:15:00.370 convoluted situation. And I had the baby in my freezer. 264 00:15:00.389 --> 00:15:02.429 The little tiny. 265 00:15:02.149 --> 00:15:05.620 Guy, Henry. It was a beautiful baby. And we had 266 00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:08.220 lost him. And it was a very painful situation. And 267 00:15:08.259 --> 00:15:11.080 because of the convoluted nature of the situation, we could 268 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.379 not have a funeral through our parish. And so I 269 00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:17.990 had to reach out to a local parish, a parish 270 00:15:18.019 --> 00:15:21.470 that I had been in years earlier. And I got 271 00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:24.970 the parish secretary on the phone and explained the situation. 272 00:15:25.049 --> 00:15:27.429 And her response was, well, that's not our problem. 273 00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:31.129 Oh, that's not what you really want to hear in 274 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:32.940 your hour of need, is it? 275 00:15:32.980 --> 00:15:35.909 I got the secretary and I'm like, what part of 276 00:15:35.929 --> 00:15:38.389 I have a dead baby in my freezer do you 277 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:43.419 not understand? And her second response was, it's not our problem. 278 00:15:44.279 -->

00:15:47.419 And so thank God I knew another priest at another 279 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:52.029 parish who was beautiful and Father Ray Soriani here in Westerly, 280 00:15:52.090 --> 00:15:54.490 Rhode Island. And he was beautiful and we had a 281 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:59.389 beautiful funeral mass for the baby and the young woman. 282 00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:03.460 But oh my goodness, you tell that story and you're 283 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:06.879 just like, Lord, help us, you know. And if you 284 00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:10.700 were like a Catholic on the edge, like, you know, 285 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.320 I'd have been on my way to the Baptist church 286 00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:16.340 right about then. I know. 287 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:20.399 I know. We have to meet people with the utmost 288 00:16:20.419 --> 00:16:24.309 level of charity and professionalism and recognize that they're often 289 00:16:24.370 --> 00:16:26.629 coming to us with some very heavy needs. 290 00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:27.669 Yeah. 291 00:16:27.990 --> 00:16:30.809 That does take an emotional toll on the pastor and 292 00:16:30.850 --> 00:16:33.799 the staff. to be doing this day in, day out. 293 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:37.120 But it's still the proper response that Christ would want 294 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:37.639 to offer. 295 00:16:37.659 --> 00:16:42.740 Right, right. It's just sort of amazing. One of the 296 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.519 things you talk about is alcohol use, like essentially if 297 00:16:46.539 --> 00:16:49.980 you're at a wedding reception of being careful. There's so 298 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:53.559 much practical advice in your book that I love, but 299 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.720 just being careful when you're at parties and celebrations with people. 300 00:16:57.740 --> 00:17:02.990 No, it's very tricky. How do we meet people in 301 00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:06.849 social situations that we're still representing the church? We're still 302 00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:10.250 representing Christ. We're still wanting to maintain our own sense 303 00:17:10.289 --> 00:17:14.470 of virtue. We live in a culture in which many 304 00:17:14.549 --> 00:17:20.230 people are constantly socializing with alcohol. That could be cocktail parties, 305 00:17:20.309 --> 00:17:25.930 dinner receptions, tailgating events before athletic events. There's all different 306 00:17:25.970 --> 00:17:28.519 types of things. And we still have to be ready 307 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.839 to receive people And particularly when the room is becoming 308 00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:34.779 more and more intoxicated, that might be the time for 309 00:17:34.819 --> 00:17:38.869 Father to excuse himself. He might not be winning a 310 00:17:38.900 --> 00:17:41.490 lot of converts as the night wears on in that setting. 311 00:17:41.509 --> 00:17:45.650 And of course, we talked earlier about how priests can 312 00:17:45.730 --> 00:17:49.769 enter into loneliness. And every diocese has this.

There are 313 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:53.970 lonely priests out there who are becoming overly reliant on alcohol. 314 00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:58.359 And it's something that we always have to be vigilant about. Mm-hmm. 315 00:17:59.789 --> 00:18:02.410 I was very fascinated, because I'd never thought about it, 316 00:18:02.589 --> 00:18:05.970 of your discussions in, I think, two different tips about 317 00:18:06.589 --> 00:18:11.569 using bathrooms, urinals for men, and locker rooms, like you're 318 00:18:11.589 --> 00:18:17.029 at the Y, where this exposing yourself is part of 319 00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:20.670 just that environment. But as a priest, you're in a 320 00:18:20.710 --> 00:18:24.759 whole different situation. And that had never really crossed my 321 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:25.519 mind before. 322 00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:29.130 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think part of this is 323 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:32.029 discussed a bit in safe environment training that, you know, 324 00:18:32.130 --> 00:18:36.170 all dioceses participate in. But it isn't something that's always 325 00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:38.599 on the forefront of our minds. But if you're in 326 00:18:38.619 --> 00:18:40.599 a public restroom and all of a sudden a minor 327 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:42.920 walks in and is standing at a urinal next to you, 328 00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:46.619 that can be a very compromising experience. And even if 329 00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:49.960 you're around adults, you know, there's a lot of adults 330 00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.680 who don't want to see their priest, you know, in 331 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:56.049 the locker room, you know, at the local gym. So 332 00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:59.109 how do we How do we relate to one another 333 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.930 just as in a normal, healthy masculinity, but also do 334 00:19:03.009 --> 00:19:06.069 so in a way that's protective and maintains professional boundaries? 335 00:19:06.589 --> 00:19:08.769 It's tricky, but I just want the seminarians and the 336 00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:11.250 newly ordained to have that on their radar so they're 337 00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:14.450 acting with prudence and not being caught off guard or 338 00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:15.849 catching other people off guard. 339 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:18.509 Well, I thought it was brilliant that you included it 340 00:19:18.569 --> 00:19:21.240 because like you say, it's not something that maybe even 341 00:19:21.299 --> 00:19:24.640 a seminarian would think about or at a time, but 342 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:28.130 all of a sudden there you are. like, oops, you know, 343 00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:32.230 this is not good. So to be able to think 344 00:19:32.299 --> 00:19:38.660 about things like that prudently beforehand is really a good idea. Yeah. 345 00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:39.779 Yeah. 346 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.490 So I thought it was really great that you include that. 347 00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:47.069 You also talked a lot about,

um, somewhat about, you know, 348 00:19:47.309 --> 00:19:52.099 obviously interaction with the lady, but interaction with families and children, um, 349 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:57.180 never embarrassing them during mass in any way. Um, because they're, 350 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.119 you know, especially, you know, my daughter is often in mass. 351 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.140 She's often her husband works on Sundays. So she's juggling 352 00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:10.569 five little children and it can be difficult. Um, And 353 00:20:10.670 --> 00:20:12.750 so you don't want to do anything that makes it 354 00:20:12.809 --> 00:20:17.549 any worse for families that are already struggling. Especially in 355 00:20:17.589 --> 00:20:20.170 this culture where they've managed to get a pile of 356 00:20:20.329 --> 00:20:23.450 kids to mass. First of all, that they've had children 357 00:20:23.769 --> 00:20:27.410 is exciting in this culture that doesn't have children. So 358 00:20:27.849 --> 00:20:30.920 you can reward that as much as you possibly can. 359 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:35.900 Yeah, we do have to have a lot of empathy 360 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:39.059 for families and support family life. It's part of our 361 00:20:39.099 --> 00:20:43.880 pro-life cause. And I just commend parents. You know, if 362 00:20:43.900 --> 00:20:46.609 you've got three, four or five children, getting them all 363 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:50.170 dressed on Sunday morning, getting them out the door on time, 364 00:20:50.369 --> 00:20:53.529 finding a pew that you can all fit in, especially 365 00:20:53.569 --> 00:20:56.970 if you're running late, you know, that's not easy. And 366 00:20:57.569 --> 00:20:59.269 we want to support them. And I've talked to countless 367 00:20:59.309 --> 00:21:02.720 parents who have just admitted, Father, I didn't get anything 368 00:21:02.740 --> 00:21:05.640 out of your homily. I had one little one, you know, 369 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.380 crawling all over the floor, dumping Cheerios all over the floor. 370 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:10.450 in the church. And I had another one who was 371 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:13.059 crying in my arms and, you know, and we have 372 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.559 to be respectful that these parents need support and they're 373 00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:18.480 doing their very best to fulfill their Sunday obligation and 374 00:21:18.500 --> 00:21:21.460 to join the Christian community. And we want to welcome them. 375 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:24.380 We want to welcome the next generation of young people 376 00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:28.470 that we can transmit the faith to. Yeah, but my 377 00:21:28.490 --> 00:21:30.630 heart really goes out to those families that are, they're 378 00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:34.109 doing all they can to keep their children in line 379 00:21:34.130 --> 00:21:36.809 during Mass and still have a prayerful experience themselves. 380 00:21:37.650 --> 00:21:44.519 Good luck, right? Yeah. Well, you know, your book, one 381 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.160 of the things I love about it, it's kind of 382 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.460 like being in one of those pinball machines. You bop 383 00:21:50.500 --> 00:21:52.980 around all over the place. So this interview is kind 384 00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:54.220 of bopping around. 385 00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:54.559 All over the place. 386 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:56.779 So I'm looking at my notes here from your book. 387 00:21:57.140 --> 00:21:59.859 But one of the things you talked about was liturgical style, 388 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:04.410 you know, how you dressed as a priest. both, you know, 389 00:22:04.430 --> 00:22:06.230 like you're saying, if you take a trip and you're 390 00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:08.490 on a bus or you're on a train or a plane, 391 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:12.930 you know, whether you choose to wear your collar or not, 392 00:22:13.769 --> 00:22:16.789 but also not having, that people don't like you to 393 00:22:16.809 --> 00:22:19.849 have too much flair so that you look like, you know, 394 00:22:19.869 --> 00:22:23.579 this is our model priest out of Esquire magazine, but 395 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.859 at the same time wanting to look respectful and represent 396 00:22:27.019 --> 00:22:29.440 the office and just trying to find a balance. 397 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:30.460 Yeah. 398 00:22:31.609 --> 00:22:34.589 No, it's very difficult. And priests of different generations don't 399 00:22:34.650 --> 00:22:37.509 agree on this. There's different cultures, even around our nation 400 00:22:37.529 --> 00:22:40.210 and around the world, on how priests dress on a 401 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:45.039 daily basis. And then certainly, if you step into any seminary, 402 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:51.039 liturgical questions are kind of a lightning rod issue. People 403 00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:54.480 experience their priest usually for about an hour a week 404 00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:58.569 at Sunday Mass. And it's the sacred liturgy that draws 405 00:22:58.630 --> 00:23:01.089 us together as the body of Christ. in which we're 406 00:23:01.130 --> 00:23:04.069 praising God, in which we're supporting one another, being nurtured 407 00:23:04.089 --> 00:23:08.529 with the sacraments. And so obviously young seminarians and young clergy, 408 00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:12.519 they want to do liturgies well. And many young clergy 409 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.680 have been scandalized when they have seen liturgies done very poorly. 410 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:20.279 And it doesn't really highlight the weight of the mystery 411 00:23:20.299 --> 00:23:25.950 that's always being celebrated at each Mass. But those questions 412 00:23:25.990 --> 00:23:28.579 can also be taken to an extreme. in which we 413 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:33.519 can get overly persnickety about liturgical things and sometimes just 414 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:37.740 forget our own humanity or just forget about the fact 415 00:23:37.759 -->

00:23:39.440 that there's a lot of people in the pews who 416 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:44.019 are not sweating bullets over little liturgical things. So where's 417 00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:49.289 the balance between making prudent decisions that's for the liturgy's beauty, 418 00:23:49.309 --> 00:23:57.500 for its sacramental wonder, but also in a way that's 419 00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:05.490 not getting too self-referential for the priest himself, in a 420 00:24:05.529 --> 00:24:08.269 way that he's just forgetting the needs of his people. 421 00:24:09.809 --> 00:24:11.730 And the liturgy is carried out in a number of 422 00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:15.259 different ways. If you're doing a mass for a youth 423 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:18.720 group at a campsite, if you're doing prison ministry, if 424 00:24:18.740 --> 00:24:21.700 you're doing a nursing home mass, or if you're doing 425 00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:25.259 a solemn mass, you know, in a parish for a 426 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:28.519 great big feast day. All those liturgical expressions might look 427 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.400 a little different depending on the needs and the settings 428 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:35.589 and who you're meeting. So there's some basic principles that 429 00:24:35.630 --> 00:24:39.829 we always have to be maintaining while also remaining flexible 430 00:24:39.950 --> 00:24:41.430 with the needs of the time. 431 00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:47.230 You talk a lot about outreach to teenagers, young people, 432 00:24:47.250 --> 00:24:51.059 young If you're connected to a school, making that daily 433 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.579 appearance so kids sort of know who you are, get 434 00:24:54.619 --> 00:24:57.839 a sense of who father is. But also that a 435 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:01.259 lot of your tips had to do with both people, 436 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:05.480 how people see you, but also the importance of them 437 00:25:05.539 --> 00:25:10.299 being seen by you and trying to always finding that balance. 438 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.720 Because we do want to be seen. You know what 439 00:25:12.740 --> 00:25:17.359 I mean? That sense of being invisible is just the worst. Yeah. 440 00:25:18.309 --> 00:25:21.309 Yeah, that's the classic adage, right? Everyone wants to be seen, known, 441 00:25:21.349 --> 00:25:26.130 and loved. And the tips on youth ministry or school 442 00:25:26.170 --> 00:25:27.910 ministry is just probably coming out of a lot of 443 00:25:27.950 --> 00:25:30.450 my experience. I was a high school chaplain for 11 444 00:25:30.450 --> 00:25:35.039 years in two different high schools. So I just worked 445 00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:38.099 with a lot of youth, and I recognized the needs 446 00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:41.660 of trying to capture their hearts and imagination at a 447 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:44.900 young age. And also, as limited as we are on 448 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:48.289 our time, giving them a witness that it's good to 449 00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:51.650 have the clergy involved in their lives, that faith is 450 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:55.539 always on the forefront of their minds and hearts. And 451 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.039 so some days in the parish, you're extremely busy. But 452 00:25:58.059 --> 00:26:00.160 if you can get over to the school and make 453 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.140 an appearance during lunch or greet students as they're coming in, 454 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:06.019 or maybe meet a few parents as they're picking up 455 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.470 their students at the end of the day, That might 456 00:26:08.490 --> 00:26:10.509 be all you can do on a really busy day 457 00:26:10.529 --> 00:26:12.910 in the parish, but it is an opportunity to keep 458 00:26:12.970 --> 00:26:16.700 extending a ministry of presence as needed and as available. 459 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.559 I spent six years working at Holy Apostles College and 460 00:26:21.619 --> 00:26:25.160 Seminary in Cromwell, Connecticut, and I had the opportunity during 461 00:26:25.180 --> 00:26:27.839 a good part of those six years to bring two 462 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.690 of my grandsons with me. They were on campus with nuns, seminarians, priests, 463 00:26:33.910 --> 00:26:37.859 playing ping pong, playing pool, going, you know, being at 464 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.259 Mass in the chapel, being in the cafeteria. And it 465 00:26:40.299 --> 00:26:44.420 was really a beautiful witness to the boys. You know, 466 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:49.059 they were probably maybe like 12, 13, 14, 15 while 467 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.190 I was there. And it was just a wonderful experience 468 00:26:52.250 --> 00:26:56.809 for them to interact with priests and seminarians and be 469 00:26:56.930 --> 00:27:00.910 seen and see, you know, and like you're saying, many 470 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:06.240 parishioners only see you for that hour of Sunday Mass. Right. 471 00:27:06.509 --> 00:27:10.509 About 7% you'll interact with in other ways, you know, 472 00:27:10.589 --> 00:27:14.390 on committees or when they're decorating the church or, you know, 473 00:27:14.470 --> 00:27:18.730 different events. But a good portion of your parishioners only 474 00:27:18.789 --> 00:27:22.140 see you for an hour. And so the importance of 475 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:28.720 that interaction is huge. And especially, as you mentioned, in 476 00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:30.059 one of the tips in the homily. 477 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:31.099 Right. 478 00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.200 Well, that's how people are going to get to know you. Right. 479 00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:38.049 You know. That little tiny bit of time. Yeah. 480 00:27:39.829 --> 00:27:43.869 Yeah, the homily is a very, very tricky thing. And 481 00:27:43.890 --> 00:27:45.769 we learn in seminary that it's kind of its own 482 00:27:45.859 --> 00:27:50.160 unique genre. It's not a lecture. It's not like a 483 00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:54.539 civic speech. It's not just a

scripture commentary, you know. 484 00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:58.579 It's capturing the minds and hearts of the people of 485 00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:01.599 God to break open the word with them in a 486 00:28:01.619 --> 00:28:04.410 way that's going to be spiritually feeding them and nourishing them. 487 00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:09.819 You know, so how a priest is relatable to everybody 488 00:28:09.859 --> 00:28:13.500 in the homily, but is also giving them quality content 489 00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:17.079 and spiritual meat for them to chew on and do 490 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.420 that all in a way that still holds their attention 491 00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:22.809 after a few minutes. It's a very tricky thing. It's 492 00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:27.369 a very tricky thing. The demands are really high, especially 493 00:28:27.410 --> 00:28:29.829 as we know that given all the technology that surrounds us, 494 00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:34.490 people's attention spans are becoming increasingly limited and And there's 495 00:28:34.529 --> 00:28:38.539 a lot of competition. When a priest steps up to 496 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:44.819 the ambo to preach, he's not only just competing with 497 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.440 maybe other pastors in the area, but everyone who's listening 498 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:54.119 to television, news anchors, everyone who's listening to podcasts or 499 00:28:54.609 --> 00:29:01.029 social media influencers, everyone who's surrounded with talking voices coming 500 00:29:01.190 --> 00:29:03.970 at them, a priest is going to be competing with 501 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.410 how articulate am I? How do I get to the point? 502 00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:10.049 How do I not ramble? How do I land the 503 00:29:10.089 --> 00:29:14.049 plane and not tie five homilies all into one? How 504 00:29:14.609 --> 00:29:17.190 do I give them maybe a particular theme, an image, 505 00:29:17.230 --> 00:29:20.920 a focal point that will resonate with my congregants and 506 00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.259 that they can take that with them throughout the rest 507 00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:26.160 of the week and pray with that? There's a lot 508 00:29:26.180 --> 00:29:28.940 of competition with all the voices that we have culturally. 509 00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.200 And so for a priest's voice to speak a word 510 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:35.019 of truth and ask the Holy Spirit to anoint his 511 00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:37.869 word so that Jesus can speak through that moment and 512 00:29:37.930 --> 00:29:43.319 touch the congregation's minds and hearts. That's our goal. And 513 00:29:43.460 --> 00:29:45.420 we really have to bring our A-game every Sunday to 514 00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:46.140 do that well. 515 00:29:47.539 --> 00:29:49.619 Well, everything you just said and were is in my 516 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.930 book right here behind you, behind me, Home for the Homily. 517 00:29:54.089 --> 00:29:57.309 I got to teach for six years. And yeah, the 518 00:29:57.369 --> 00:30:02.279 homily is so important. Yeah. It's really the window there into, 519 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:08.880 especially personally you, but also pointing us to Jesus. And yeah, it's, it's, 520 00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:13.079 it's tough. It has to happen in, you know, five 521 00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:20.420 to 10 minutes, you know, pretty amazing. Oh, gosh, there's 522 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.599 so much in your book. I mean, it's just, do 523 00:30:23.619 --> 00:30:26.369 you have some favorite things that you'd like to mention? 524 00:30:27.230 --> 00:30:30.130 I mean, we could talk for hours because it's a 525 00:30:30.410 --> 00:30:31.029 great book. 526 00:30:32.529 --> 00:30:34.079 Well, one of the things that comes to mind is 527 00:30:34.099 --> 00:30:38.839 when I was visiting with seminarians, obviously as young men, 528 00:30:38.900 --> 00:30:41.039 they want to go in and make a good impression 529 00:30:41.059 --> 00:30:45.819 when they enter parish ministry. Men are often very practical. 530 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:47.960 Men want to know, like, how do I do something? 531 00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:50.069 How do I step in and not screw it up? 532 00:30:50.109 --> 00:30:53.029 And so there's lots of little things that I try 533 00:30:53.069 --> 00:30:55.930 and highlight in the book when you're visiting nursing homes. 534 00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:57.960 when you get called to the emergency room at a 535 00:30:58.019 --> 00:31:02.049 hospital in the middle of the night, if you're asked 536 00:31:02.089 --> 00:31:05.009 to maybe lead a committee and you step in and 537 00:31:05.029 --> 00:31:08.710 you're asked to maybe lead the discussion at a finance committee. 538 00:31:09.309 --> 00:31:12.170 And for a young priest who doesn't have a business 539 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:18.759 background or who maybe is very inexperienced at leading meetings 540 00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:24.339 in formal settings, you know, I noticed so many seminarians, 541 00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:27.660 you know, have some anxiety about kind of those performance elements. 542 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:30.759 So I try and give them a few tips in 543 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.799 the book, but I also want to keep calling them 544 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:36.940 back to the importance of relationship, being grounded in their 545 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.019 own identity, and just to recognize that they don't have 546 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:41.680 to be a master of everything. And there's going to 547 00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:43.769 be lots of people to surround them and support them 548 00:31:44.369 --> 00:31:47.210 with different skill sets that are ready and willing to 549 00:31:47.289 --> 00:31:50.109 answer questions as they come up. So yeah, the book 550 00:31:50.130 --> 00:31:52.529 really tries to balance that, you know, what are the 551 00:31:53.130 --> 00:31:57.269 What are the practical steps needed just for an effective ministry, 552 00:31:57.329 -->

00:31:59.640 especially as you're getting started out and you've got a 553 00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:04.099 million ideas and curiosities running through your mind, but also 554 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:07.400 just being secure in who you are. And lastly, I 555 00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:11.039 would also just say this. I just try to emphasize 556 00:32:11.059 --> 00:32:13.529 to the seminarians and the young priests, it's okay to 557 00:32:13.569 --> 00:32:17.990 be a young priest. It's okay. There are so many 558 00:32:18.049 --> 00:32:20.880 things that the newly ordained can do even though they 559 00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.740 might feel clueless many times, you know, going throughout their 560 00:32:23.779 --> 00:32:27.369 day in new ministries that they're being thrust into. There 561 00:32:27.380 --> 00:32:29.750 are so many things they can do, especially with the 562 00:32:29.789 --> 00:32:35.069 youth group, especially relating to young couples in marriage preparation. 563 00:32:39.009 --> 00:32:44.170 There are ways that they can enter into the ministerial 564 00:32:44.259 --> 00:32:46.779 territory of a parish in a way that an older 565 00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:50.210 priest cannot, you know. And that was kind of a 566 00:32:50.470 --> 00:32:53.190 liberating moment for me to recognize as a young priest, 567 00:32:53.710 --> 00:32:57.099 you know, carrying in my own nervousness or anxiousness about 568 00:32:57.700 --> 00:32:59.559 how do I handle this situation or how do I 569 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:03.099 deal with this emergency? But just to recognize, wow, there's 570 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.460 things that I can do that older priests cannot in 571 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.309 the way that I can relate to certain generations. And 572 00:33:09.349 --> 00:33:11.609 just to embrace that and recognize that as I grow 573 00:33:11.650 --> 00:33:14.029 in age and wisdom, there's going to be new skill 574 00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:19.509 sets and new opportunities opportunities for ministry that will open up. 575 00:33:20.089 --> 00:33:22.730 And so I can enjoy this time that I've been 576 00:33:22.769 --> 00:33:25.390 given by the church to just be a young priest. 577 00:33:26.410 --> 00:33:28.670 If young men can recognize that as they enter into 578 00:33:28.690 --> 00:33:31.509 their own priestly identity, I think they're going to find 579 00:33:31.529 --> 00:33:32.910 a lot of fruitfulness and joy. 580 00:33:32.930 --> 00:33:37.559 There's also a theme that runs through quite a number 581 00:33:37.579 --> 00:33:39.650 of the tips about, you know, as they say in 582 00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:43.619 the airplane, you know, put the oxygen mask on yourself first, 583 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:48.539 taking care of yourself, learning to say no, to say 584 00:33:48.579 --> 00:33:53.509 yes to everything, learn to say no when it's appropriate. Taking, 585 00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:56.509 you know, not asking for vacation time the minute you 586 00:33:56.529 --> 00:34:01.490 get to a parish, but taking vacation time, having time, 587 00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:04.130 how important that is. 588 00:34:04.150 --> 00:34:10.150 Yeah, we know that there is a decreasing amount of 589 00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:14.429 clergy available here in the United States. and that the 590 00:34:14.449 --> 00:34:17.309 workloads actually just keep increasing, especially as we're trying to 591 00:34:17.369 --> 00:34:20.889 call Catholics back to the faith while also evangelizing those 592 00:34:20.909 --> 00:34:24.170 who have never heard the gospel. And yet we also 593 00:34:24.190 --> 00:34:25.949 know at the same time that we can't give what 594 00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:29.030 we don't have. And so if a, if a priest 595 00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:32.590 is just running on empty, if he's not personally recharging 596 00:34:32.630 --> 00:34:37.489 his batteries with proper rest, exercise, nutritious food, you know, 597 00:34:37.570 --> 00:34:40.369 and certainly a robust and intimate prayer life with the Lord, 598 00:34:40.389 --> 00:34:43.429 he's not going to have anything to give to others. Um, 599 00:34:44.469 --> 00:34:47.789 So we emphasize this to the seminarians. There's a balance 600 00:34:47.869 --> 00:34:53.150 between proper self-care and being overly self-indulgent. And in this 601 00:34:53.190 --> 00:34:57.190 day and age, there's a big need for grit and 602 00:34:57.250 --> 00:35:00.630 perseverance and determination to go out and share the gospel 603 00:35:01.389 --> 00:35:03.929 in a way that is going to be self-sacrificing, in 604 00:35:04.010 --> 00:35:05.989 a way that's going to invite you to lay down 605 00:35:06.030 --> 00:35:07.469 your life for the good of the flock after the 606 00:35:07.510 --> 00:35:10.860 example of the good shepherd. And yet we also have 607 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.940 to recognize the priesthood is a marathon and not a sprint. 608 00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:17.309 And so to sustain this in a healthy and holy 609 00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:21.389 way for 40 or 50 years while still giving of 610 00:35:21.409 --> 00:35:25.389 yourselves very generously, it's a tough balance. It's a tough balance. 611 00:35:25.409 --> 00:35:27.869 I was just recently visiting with a priest who was 612 00:35:27.909 --> 00:35:30.610 newly ordained as of this summer, and he said, yeah, 613 00:35:30.670 --> 00:35:33.369 I'm learning the hard way. I keep saying yes to everything, 614 00:35:34.670 --> 00:35:37.860 and I'm always exhausted, and I never have enough time 615 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:41.199 to prepare what I need to be doing next. But 616 00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:44.489 he's learning. He's learning the proper boundaries that he needs. 617 00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:46.650 And that just comes with time and experience. 618 00:35:48.269 --> 00:35:50.929 Speaking of proper boundaries, I found it interesting. I was 619 00:35:50.949 --> 00:35:52.949 surprised you didn't go into it a little bit more, 620 00:35:53.010 -->

00:35:56.190 but I think it's your tip, October 6th, where you 621 00:35:56.230 --> 00:35:59.679 talk about having controls on your computer and the internet. 622 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.880 And we know, you know, across the board, the laity, 623 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:08.139 the priesthood, the internet is problematic, especially with the access 624 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.269 to pornography. and the importance of having, you don't actually 625 00:36:11.329 --> 00:36:14.190 use the word, but not being able to easily access 626 00:36:14.269 --> 00:36:21.030 inappropriate material, especially when you have leisure time. I mean, 627 00:36:21.050 --> 00:36:23.969 we could just wind up scrolling through Facebook and stupidity, 628 00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:28.489 but you can also get into far more inappropriate materials. 629 00:36:28.510 --> 00:36:30.380 Do you want to just speak to that a little bit? 630 00:36:30.409 --> 00:36:34.239 Because we know it is a struggle, and more of 631 00:36:34.300 --> 00:36:37.860 a struggle generally for men than women. Oh, certainly. 632 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:37.960 Yeah. 633 00:36:38.650 --> 00:36:38.989 Certainly. 634 00:36:39.010 --> 00:36:42.210 I mean, we were constantly addressing this within the seminary 635 00:36:42.389 --> 00:36:46.610 among the men. And they know it. The men entering 636 00:36:46.699 --> 00:36:50.480 seminary now, even the men getting ordained, they have had 637 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:55.400 easily accessible pornography surrounding them since they were in elementary school. 638 00:36:56.059 --> 00:37:00.000 That's the culture we're now living in. The culture is 639 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:06.659 so saturated with a hyper-sexualized image-based world. that it's really 640 00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:13.130 affecting the developmental norms of so many young people. So 641 00:37:13.369 --> 00:37:18.110 it's a constant theme that seminaries are talking about. And 642 00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:21.150 I think the newly ordained know this because they should, 643 00:37:21.250 --> 00:37:24.840 in any seminary that they've gone to, they should have 644 00:37:24.889 --> 00:37:29.159 heard this repeatedly and have been given tools to equip 645 00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:34.590 them to maintain their own sense of chastity, to maintain 646 00:37:34.610 --> 00:37:38.050 the protection of their mind, their eyes, their own imagination, 647 00:37:38.070 --> 00:37:42.869 and their heart, and to recognize that they're just going 648 00:37:42.889 --> 00:37:44.840 to be stepping into this world that they've already been 649 00:37:44.889 --> 00:37:48.760 living in and trying to help the wounded all the time. 650 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.219 You know, issues of impurity are frequent topics that come 651 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.760 up in pastoral counseling sessions and also in the confessional, 652 00:37:56.780 --> 00:38:02.210 and the newly ordained know this. and hopefully they recognize 653 00:38:02.230 --> 00:38:05.269 just the severity of what the people of God are 654 00:38:05.469 --> 00:38:09.570 swimming in culturally and how we need to be a 655 00:38:09.630 --> 00:38:14.070 voice of clarity and truth to lead people towards the light. 656 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:17.699 I had to laugh because one of your tips was 657 00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:21.360 even like the arrangement of the furniture in your office. Yes. 658 00:38:22.019 --> 00:38:25.099 I had to laugh, but I went, yeah, right. You know, 659 00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:27.760 you be careful, you know, someone may come in dressed 660 00:38:27.820 --> 00:38:30.119 inappropriately and now they're sitting in front of you and 661 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.820 you're you know, basically looking up her skirt. 662 00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:33.619 Yeah. 663 00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:36.300 Like, oops. Yeah. 664 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.900 No, anytime, anytime you've been, you know, in a, in 665 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.539 an awkward situation where, you know, someone with a short 666 00:38:42.619 --> 00:38:46.039 skirt was not dressed appropriately, it can be very awkward, 667 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:49.420 but also even for men, you know, men rarely like 668 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:51.420 to stare one another in the face and talk about 669 00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:53.699 deep things. You know, they'll, they love to sit side 670 00:38:53.739 --> 00:38:55.739 by side on a car ride or in a fishing 671 00:38:55.780 --> 00:38:59.550 boat or something, you know? So, so how the How 672 00:38:59.590 --> 00:39:02.780 the office is arranged is important. Even, you know, our 673 00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:05.639 counselors in the seminary would even teach men to say, 674 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.699 someone who walks into your office should never feel trapped. 675 00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:11.739 You know, so if they feel like, you know, they 676 00:39:11.780 --> 00:39:15.380 need to excuse themselves, they shouldn't have to pass by 677 00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:17.260 you or a bunch of other people in a meeting 678 00:39:17.300 --> 00:39:21.900 to get to the door. So, yeah, those environmental things 679 00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:24.989 are very helpful to think through for professional norms. 680 00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:30.820 There is so much in your book, 365, um, wonderful 681 00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:34.860 tips from, like you said, from the candles to the skirt. 682 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:39.340 I loved it. 683 00:39:39.449 --> 00:39:42.329 I loved reading it. I just thought you brought out 684 00:39:42.409 --> 00:39:47.010 things that you might not think about until you're awkwardly 685 00:39:47.090 --> 00:39:52.489 in some situations. And so it's a wonderful book. Is 686 00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:54.960 there anything else? I know we're sort of running out 687 00:39:54.980 --> 00:39:57.300 of time, but is there anything you'd like to mention 688 00:39:57.920 --> 00:39:58.780 in particular? 689 00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:03.820 Well,

just lastly, you know, the book came about, you know, 690 00:40:03.940 --> 00:40:08.320 through my own experiences, mistakes that I've made, the tips 691 00:40:08.539 --> 00:40:11.090 and the mentoring that I've received from countless people in 692 00:40:11.110 --> 00:40:14.190 the church. And so the book is really just not 693 00:40:14.230 --> 00:40:17.260 the fruit of my own thought. It's, It's the compilation 694 00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:19.360 of so many other voices in the good of the 695 00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.889 church that are trying to build up everybody and to 696 00:40:22.909 --> 00:40:26.550 help the church really thrive. So I'm grateful for all 697 00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:28.989 the mentors and the people that have helped me along 698 00:40:29.030 --> 00:40:31.369 the way. And what I've acquired from them, I've just 699 00:40:31.389 --> 00:40:33.530 tried to pass on to the next generation as well. 700 00:40:34.650 --> 00:40:36.929 So yeah, I appreciate the invitation and thanks for the 701 00:40:36.949 --> 00:40:38.320 opportunity to discuss the text. 702 00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.159 And I want to mention each one of your daily 703 00:40:41.260 --> 00:40:44.960 reflections or discussions are very short, short and sweet and 704 00:40:44.980 --> 00:40:49.289 to the point. So the book isn't a burdensome thing 705 00:40:49.349 --> 00:40:51.769 to read through in the course of a year, but 706 00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:54.760 I think you'll be tempted if you get the book 707 00:40:54.820 --> 00:40:56.940 to read more than one at a time because you're 708 00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:00.780 a delightful writer. And yeah. Yeah. 709 00:41:00.860 --> 00:41:03.420 I've wanted to keep things pretty succinct to get to 710 00:41:03.460 --> 00:41:05.400 the point, allow people to move on. So hopefully that 711 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:06.619 makes it an easy, quick read. 712 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.420 And where can people get it? Yeah. 713 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.119 So we're grateful to Enroo Books and Media for the 714 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:18.059 publication of that. And that's available online. through Enroot's own website, 715 00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:20.320 and also it's available on Amazon as well. 716 00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:22.699 Do you have a copy of it there? I read 717 00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:24.619 it as a PDF. Do you have it there? 718 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:26.320 You know, actually, I don't have one. I have one 719 00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:28.170 in another office. I'm sorry I don't have one sitting 720 00:41:28.210 --> 00:41:30.190 right here to show everybody, but thank you, though. 721 00:41:30.530 --> 00:41:34.530 That's fine. That's fine. Well, this has been wonderful, Father Shane. 722 00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:35.889 Do you want to end us with a prayer? 723 00:41:35.909 --> 00:41:41.670 Yeah, absolutely. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen. Lord, we thank 724 00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:45.670 you for this opportunity to discuss the work of this labor, 725 00:41:45.730 --> 00:41:48.809 and we ask that it might bless all those who 726 00:41:48.849 --> 00:41:51.090 seek to build up the kingdom in their ministry in 727 00:41:51.110 --> 00:41:55.329 the church. Bless us in our ongoing efforts, and in 728 00:41:55.369 --> 00:41:57.510 Jesus' name, may all things be praised. 729 00:41:58.789 --> 00:41:58.969 Amen. 730 00:41:58.989 --> 00:42:00.989 In the name of the Father, the Son, and the 731 00:42:01.050 --> 00:42:04.250 Holy Spirit. Amen. Kiki, thanks so much for the invitation. 732 00:42:04.309 --> 00:42:05.150 It's good to be with you. 733 00:42:05.170 --> 00:42:06.969 Thank you. It's been wonderful. 734 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:08.199 God bless. 735 00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:09.469 Thank you. God bless. 736 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.559 Hello, God's beloved. 737 00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:17.119 I'm Annabelle Mosley, author, professor of theology, and host of 738 00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:22.130 Then Sings My Soul and Destination Sainthood on WCAT Radio. 739 00:42:22.949 --> 00:42:26.389 I invite you to listen in and find inspiration along 740 00:42:26.429 --> 00:42:30.130 this sacred journey we're traveling together to make our lives 741 00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:35.840 a masterpiece and, with God's grace, become saints. Join me, 742 00:42:36.110 --> 00:42:40.420 Annabelle Mosley, for Then Sings My Soul and Destination Sainthood 743 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:46.369 on WCAT Radio. God bless you. Remember, you're never alone. 744 00:42:46.989 --> 00:42:48.409 God is always with. 745 00:42:52.300 --> 00:42:52.519 You. 746 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:56.840 Thank you for listening to a production of WCAT Radio. 747 00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:01.750 Please join us in our mission of evangelization. And don't forget, 748 00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:05.030 love lifts up when knowledge takes flight.