#136: The Four Thinking Tools That Replace Thousands의 전체 녹취록

how to make 10,000 recipes? 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:04.239 Or should you learn the fundamentals of cooking and and practice those fundamentals? 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:04.959 Yes. 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.000 I mean, obviously. 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:07.840 Well, I don't know if that is obvious. 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:13.039 The way that the way that people approach it behaviorally, it's not obvious. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:18.800 I think a lot of people approach it like I'm gonna go learn to make a thousand different recipes. 00:02:19.120 --> 00:02:19.199 Right. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.639 But if But if you talk to chefs, it's like, oh, they're working on knife skills. 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:35.840 They're working on, you know, the the chemistry of of how things combine, how you know, heat, the f I don't know enough about sh being a chef, but you know, they're working on the fundamentals. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:36.159 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:36.639 I know. 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.159 If you remember, we had the chance to visit the campus of Culinary Institute. 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:42.080 It's an amazing place. 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:50.639 And you look at their course roster and it's ri literally like knife skills, folding skills, baking skills. 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:53.439 It's like oh, there's a whole class on rice. 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:54.240 Yeah. 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.199 Just the ratios of rice and what I mean, you know. 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.520 And then they also have styles of cuisine, and then they have like chemistry classes, really. 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:17.439 Yeah, so I think sometimes to me the thing that um you know, where it becomes impassioned or mo where I'm motivated is it's hard to watch people struggle when they don't have to, right? 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:32.800 When when things seem hard and the way we're teaching people to deal with those things seems like a steep learning curve, you know, and you're like, actually, you don't have to learn to make 10,000 recipes. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:33.439 Right. 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:35.439 You could just learn to be a good cook. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:41.520 Because a a chef, you could give them any ingredients and they would cook you something amazing. 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:43.439 Well, here's the case in point. 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.400 Probably ten times a month, yeah. 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.319 One of our children constantly says there's no food. 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:51.039 Right. 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:52.400 The fridge is full of food. 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:53.360 Full of food. 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.520 But that child does not know how to combine food. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.879 Sometimes that child is me. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.159 No, I'm not how to do it. 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:04.560 Well, that's I look in the fridge sometimes and I'm like, I don't exactly there is technically food. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:05.439 There's stuff. 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:06.479 There's stuff. 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:06.800 Yeah. 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:11.680 But I don't know how I don't know the part party that makes all that stuff turn into a whole. 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:12.479 Right. 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.280 But to me, I'm like, what do you mean? 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.639 There's enough food for five dinners, four lunches, and three breakfast is in there. 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:19.519 Exactly. 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:20.399 It's all there. 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:20.639 Yeah. 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.879 There's eggs, there's this, there's that. 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.720 But when other people, they're like, oh, there's no food because it's not me. 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.639 And because they don't know the sort of the fundamentals of how to do it. 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:41.360 So I think universality just means what are the things that are universal to all these different processes that we undergo when we're thinking about things. 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:42.079 Yes. 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:51.839 And universality about, you know, uh how the universe is structured, universality about how your thinking is structured, and if those and and the similarity between them. 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:52.480 Yes. 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:54.959 Elementalism is like what are the elements? 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:04.399 What are the things at the very base that if you work on those things, you're working, you're you might be working on a small set of those things, practicing a small set of those things. 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:13.199 But when you master those small, that small set, you're mastering thousands and thousands and thousands of skills. 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:14.000 Yes. 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.360 We want everyone in the world on the path to pro. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:21.600 White belt, yellow belt, blue belt, landing in the PST credential. 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.639 The professional systems thinker credential. 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:36.879 And that's not just personal, it's also part of a wider vision of 8 billion systems thinkers above the standard, which is the professional systems thinker or PST. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.639 Count yourself into it and let's change ourselves. 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:43.680 And when we change ourselves, we change the world. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:44.160 Right? 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:51.680 In the same way that when you master knife skills, there's going to be cutting in almost everything yet you cook. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:54.319 Yes, and I got very excited because I have a sports analogy. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:54.800 Oh wow. 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:56.079 Remember the basketball thing? 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:56.399 Yeah. 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:57.839 Dribbling, shooting, passing. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:59.040 Yeah, exactly. 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:07.360 If I went out and I practiced for a thousand hours, dribbly shooting, I mean

it's probably I wouldn't be that good, but I'd be a lot better, right, at basketball. 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:07.600 Yeah. 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:09.839 Because I would just practice the fundamentals. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:10.319 Yeah. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.000 I'm so excited at a sports analogy. 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:12.720 No, this is pretty good. 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:13.439 So rare for me. 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.759 I think the one of the problems is people doubt the concept of universality. 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:20.800 They sure do. 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:22.160 And I don't know why. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:27.680 Yeah, worse worse than that, they doubt they doubt the concept of simplicity, which couldn't be more wrong. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:28.639 Say more. 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.920 So underlying complexity is simplicity. 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:32.879 We know this. 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:45.600 And um and yet most of the time when you share you know simple things with folks, they think it's too simple to be of value. 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:50.319 And a lot of times those most elemental things like dribbling, you know. 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:52.959 I mean, I remember uh it was a couple of years ago. 00:06:53.120 --> 00:07:03.680 I was I it was summer and Carter was playing lacrosse, and and I I said to his coach, hey coach, over the summer I, you know, might have some influence on Carter's practice and what he practices. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:09.680 And uh, you know, he was pretty new to lacrosse, so this would have been a bunch of years ago. 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:10.319 Yeah. 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.000 And uh and I said, What what's the number one thing that you would suggest? 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:14.319 Yes. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:16.000 He goes, left hand. 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:16.800 Yeah. 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:18.639 I'm saying that's it. 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:22.399 Like he's just like, he's gotta be good right and left. 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:24.480 Because good players are are good with both hands. 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:25.040 Right. 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.040 Like it it's not like he's not like, oh, do this really technical thing. 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.000 He's just like, do do with the left hand what you can do with the right hand. 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:32.959 Yeah, yeah. 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:33.439 Yeah. 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:45.600 I mean, there's nothing compli that's just incredibly simple, but it's also like 99.9% of people that play lacrosse don't do that part. 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:51.199 And 99.9% of the people that are really fantastic at lacrosse practice that. 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:51.839 Right. 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:58.800 But you could have a different coach who says, here's 25 things, because they don't they don't reduce it to the fundamentals. 00:07:59.120 --> 00:07:59.199 Right. 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:04.079 They're like, practice this formation and do this and do that, and five hours of cardio a week. 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.759 And so they're they're kind of distracted by complexity. 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:09.839 You're making it more complicated than it is, right? 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:10.240 Totally. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.279 Because they're not seeing the underlying Totally. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:18.560 So then, okay, so then you're obviously talking about cognition thinking, how we think about things. 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:26.959 Well, I'm talking about what's what's typically called I hate using words like this, but but the they're the words that we use. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:35.759 Um there's two words epistemology, which is how we know, and ontology, which is what is real. 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:41.840 And what we're talking about is that there is a universality across those two things. 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:48.799 That the way the universe is structured is also the way that our brain structures things. 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:58.799 And the only real difference is that our brain only does a biased version of what reality does a complete version of. 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:07.120 Right, but when you're saying there's a universality in reality, well, what we what's real and how we know things or what we know. 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:14.080 You're saying there's a universal set of elements underlying each of those things. 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.600 Yes, there's four patterns, eight elements, four dynamics. 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:19.120 That underlie each of those. 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.159 Underlie each of which knowing and reality. 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:25.200 They're the same patterns that underlie both of them. 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:36.639 So what the what that does is it allows you to get more in tune with the reality, the situation that you're in, whatever, because reality is gonna structure things a certain way. 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:37.919 Right? 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:42.080 And your mind's gonna get a fraction of that. 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:49.039 And so if you know the full eight elements, then you will get more of them. 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:53.759 You'll just you'll get a more complete view of the way reality is structuring things. 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:05.519 Yes, and would it be fair to say that in some ways there's the physical structure of the universe which is built on those four elements or those eight elements, four patterns, right? 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:06.159 Yeah. 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.759 And the way that we think about that reality. 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.240 So there's like a verb and there's a noun. 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:15.200 Yeah, no, there's absolutely a verb and a noun. 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:24.240 The the verb is thinking, and thinking is you're thinking by organizing information. 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:25.120 Right. 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:31.679 And once you've organized information, that is equal to a mental model or meaning. 00:10:32.240 -->

00:10:34.080 So thinking is the verb. 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:40.240 The process of thinking is the process of taking information and organizing it. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.720 And the noun that we get is a mental model. 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:47.120 That's the like the what we think or believe at any given time, right? 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:47.759 Yes. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:11:02.399 And this mental model is gonna lead to your actions and behaviors, it's gonna lead to what you feel uh feel, your emotions, it's gonna lead to the decisions you make, the assumptions you make, the uh, you know, all of it. 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:06.000 All of how you interact with reality will come from this mental model. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:06.639 Right. 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:10.639 And this O right here, the information, everybody knows what information is. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:12.799 There's tons of information all over the place. 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:20.639 Information is like, you know, the words, the numbers, the data, the whatever, the sentences that we use, the words I'm saying right now. 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:21.279 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:24.879 But the way we organize it is what makes the meaning. 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.519 Yes. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:34.480 And that organization, the science of organization tells us that that organization is made up of D, S, R, and P. 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:34.879 Yes. 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:43.919 And that each of these guys have two elements, which is identity, other, part whole, action, reaction, part point view. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.200 Now that seems crazy simple. 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.799 Like I say part whole, big deal. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:52.320 Like so simple. 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:53.200 Yeah. 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:54.639 So complex. 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:55.200 Yes. 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:56.960 So unbelievable. 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:58.480 Yeah, and across so many levels. 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.519 Across so many levels of the entire universe, everything is nested part whole structures. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:04.879 Period. 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.919 And every part is a whole, and every whole is a part. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:08.480 Yes. 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:08.960 Right? 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:13.600 And that's that just comes from this like incredibly simple thing called part whole. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:14.639 Identity, other. 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.120 Every identity has an other, and every other is also an identity. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:20.720 And you can test it out. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.960 You know, go find somebody that you go, hey, I'm I'm I'm John. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:26.320 I'm Sally. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.759 And Sally is also not John. 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:30.799 Yes. 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:31.919 And John is not Sally. 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:33.919 And John is also not Sally. 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:34.720 Yes. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.919 You know, so so you think that's not me. 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:38.399 Yeah. 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.360 But they don't think I'm not John. 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.320 They don't go introduce themselves as not John. 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:44.879 No. 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:46.879 They are the identity Sally. 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:47.440 Right. 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:54.159 So not John, which is the other, and Sally, which is the identity, are actually the same thing. 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:54.879 Yes. 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:59.759 And there's a whole set, mathematically, of not Johns. 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:00.720 Yes. 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.759 And that's mean that's incredibly important, uh, believe it or not. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:07.039 I believe it. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:07.279 Yes. 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:07.679 Yeah. 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:15.519 Well, it also gets to the parts that we tend to miss of what we miss all thinking, you know. 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:17.679 Yeah, so this is a little more advanced. 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.919 What we do is we reduce these to moves. 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:27.840 So so for example, we know that people will zoom in much more often, but still not enough, right? 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.240 Ten out of ten people, two and a half people, right? 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.399 In a study of forty thousand people. 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:35.039 Yeah. 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.559 Two and a half people will zoom in to the parts of something. 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:39.360 To the parts. 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:44.080 So they'll go, they'll go from the hole down into the parts. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:51.840 Zero out of ten people will go up and turn this hole into a part that has a bigger hole. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:53.039 Yeah, that's right. 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:55.519 Well, you go, well, who cares? 00:13:55.679 --> 00:14:05.679 Oh, well, every executive on the planet cares because they they need middle management to think at the enterprise level. 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:13.919 So if you're this person in this job or department, these are all departments or people working in departments, right? 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:16.000 They're all looking, what are they looking at? 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.320 They're looking at them, them or their department and its parts. 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.080 So they're zooming in. 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:27.039 And they very rarely zoom out and go, Well, yeah, we're doing all this stuff. 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:32.080 We're busy, we're doing all this stuff, but how does it relate to the stuff that these people are doing? 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:36.159 And how does that all relate to the goal of what we're all trying to do? 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:36.879 Right. 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:37.360 Right. 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:38.799 That's zooming out. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:45.759 So you say to yourself, like, that's too simple to be useful, and then you realize,

boy, it's incredibly useful. 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:58.000 It's one of the most it's, I mean, you know, nine ninety-nine of a out of a hundred executive teams that we've been to are have this problem of enterprise thinking. 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:04.320 And how do you train middle management that's upcoming to executive positions to be enterprise thinkers? 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:04.559 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:05.120 Yes. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:12.080 But it's not just, I mean, I think there's a lot of context, it's even in sort of literally mechanical structure, like even mechanics. 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:20.799 Like mechanics have an ability to see all of the parts, the parts of the parts, but they also see that as part of the larger whole. 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:32.159 There's all kinds of professions where people are not aware of the fact that they that their very survival in that profession depends on thinking across levels of scale. 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.480 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:44.240 Yeah, I would I would even say, and to our mechanics listeners out there, I mean, there there's a whole thing called, you know, quantum mechanics, and we think, oh, those people are geniuses, right? 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.000 Well, they're just studying mechanics. 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:54.720 And if you go and the mechanics that I've met, the car mechanics that I've met, they're some of the smartest people you'll ever meet. 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.720 Because they're fixing things, they're fixing problems all day, right? 00:15:59.279 --> 00:15:59.919 All day. 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:00.559 Yeah. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:02.799 On the mechanics of things. 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:09.759 And so, you know, if a mechanic, let's say a mechanic goes in and goes, oh, I this this carburetor is broken. 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:12.559 The carburetor is a part of this car. 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:13.519 Yes. 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:14.080 Right? 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.200 That's a great picture. 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:16.080 That's the car. 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.320 And this little carburetor is is broken. 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.120 So the mechanic goes in and fixes that carburetor. 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:27.759 Well, he doesn't just go, oh, yeah, the carburetor's fixed, and then they go to start up the car, zoom out. 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:28.559 Right? 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:28.960 Yeah. 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:36.960 Like he fixes the parts of the carburetor, and then they go to f start the car and it doesn't start, and he goes, Well, I fixed the carburetor. 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:37.600 Right. 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:38.159 Right? 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.039 So his job depends on zooming in and zooming out. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.480 He doesn't get to he doesn't get to say, I fixed the carburetor. 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:45.039 Yeah. 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.120 He has he's he has to. 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:48.399

Your car has to. 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.519 Yeah, the car is a whole system that has to leave the lot. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:51.759 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:52.639 Just like doctors. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:53.039 Exactly. 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:58.320 I can't just fix this one thing without recognizing it's part of a whole system. 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.919 Well, I ironically, a lot of times they do. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:02.399 I know. 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:03.519 So I'm saying it's a problem. 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:03.759 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:04.640 That's a huge problem. 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:05.039 Yeah. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:09.039 So if you think thinking across levels of scale and seeing parts of a system. 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:11.359 No, you bring up a really important part. 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.799 I mean, because we're talking about executives and business and that kind of thing. 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.839 But look at look at what's happening in modern medicine. 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:24.640 We have more and more specialists that are zooming in, and very few of them are zooming out. 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.079 Now, all of that, by the way, we talked about eight elements, four patterns. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.480 We're just talking about two of the elements. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:30.960 Yeah. 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:38.319 And we're talking about two elements that most people would dismiss as being too simple to be useful, part whole. 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:39.119 Yes. 00:17:39.359 --> 00:18:06.000 And here we are talking about it in mechanics, in quantum mechanics, in business, and in modern medicine, it's one of the biggest problems we have today, which is you have somebody that knows every single thing about the inner ear or every single thing about your, you know, your colon or whatever, but doesn't extrapolate or zoom out to what am I, what the things that I'm doing here, how does it affect the rest of the human? 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:06.319 Yeah. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:07.440 The overall health. 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:13.839 When I prescribe this medicine, it's gonna fix this thing that's one part of this person. 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:14.400 Yeah. 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.599 And this mechanism or this this outcome. 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.160 Yeah. 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.559 But what's it gonna do to the rest of the person? 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.880 Well, if it's me, every side effect. 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:23.759 Exactly. 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:24.880 Which is right, exactly. 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:25.359 Nothing. 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:26.000 Right? 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:31.440 That's a that is simply not zooming out and doing a lot of zooming in. 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.519 That is a part whole issue. 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:40.240 So I mean, this whole thing started with you know, what do they distrust they distrust simplicity. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:49.440 Simplicity is your greatest, greatest adversary or ally in the in the fight of understanding reality. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:49.680 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.559 We were also talking about noun verb, right? 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:58.400 And one of the things I think is really important is part whole thinking, right? 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.839 Mental models that organize part whole systems. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:07.839 The reason that's important is because in reality, this car physically is a part whole system. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.920 The human body is part whole system. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:20.799 The things that are real, so we talk about what you know and what you the things that we we experience in reality, they exist as part whole systems. 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.960 They exist, you know, they have identity, they are other. 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:32.720 So what I was trying to get at it with now verb is we talk about your how you know things and reality. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:40.640 When you say there's universality of those elements, what we mean is these actual things in reality exist in these structures. 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:47.200 Yeah, and so reality might something in reality might have these parts, let's say A, B, and C. 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.920 Yeah. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.559 Right? 00:19:48.720 --> 00:20:00.480 And then you might come along and create a mental model of that thing, but your mental model only has A and let's say B and D. 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:10.559 So your epistemologically, in your mind, in your mental model, on your brain side, you're doing part whole and you're making distinctions. 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.559 A, b, d, whole, you know, the whole might be A, B, D or something like that. 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:21.440 On the reality side, reality is breaking things into parts, nested, nestedness and part whole. 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:28.960 But what we want to do with the love reality loop is be like, hey, my whole, my the thing I built in my head is A, B, D. 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:30.960 Let's see if that's right. 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:39.359 Oh, I, yep, I see A, I see B, I see a whole, and then I don't see D. 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.000 But I do see C. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:42.880 Right. 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:44.160 There's your feedback. 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.400 Oh, I I don't know, D's kind of a question mark, but C for sure. 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:49.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:51.519 D, I don't know, D might be out. 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.480 That's how we get in alignment with our mental models. 00:20:54.720 --> 00:21:04.640 And understanding that these are both ontological and epistemologies, this is ontology or reality, reality over here, and this is epistemology or mind over here. 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.400 Understanding that reality has the same structure as your mind. 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.759 And that's because your

mind actually evolved inside of reality. 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.880 It didn't it's not like reality was happening and your mind kind of built itself separate from it. 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.559 Right, and that's what you meant when you said elementalism. 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:23.039 Yes. 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.720 Universality and elementalism. 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:26.160 Yeah, what is elemental? 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.880 What are the simple little things that add up? 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:29.200 Yeah. 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.720 And what is universal, meaning you find them everywhere. 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:33.599 Yes. 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:43.680 And to me, those are the things that if I was gonna spend, if I had only one minute to spend, one minute of energy, I would want to spend them there. 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:49.839 Just like if you had one minute to, I mean, let's say you you know you've never played basketball in your life. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:50.319 Yeah. 00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:59.759 And you have one minute to prepare, or ten minutes to prepare for a game that you that could you know get you a job or you win ten thousand dollars or something. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.240 You know, whatever, some some good things gonna happen. 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:02.880 Yeah. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:04.160 What would you focus on? 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.559 You'd you'd focus on dribbling, shooting, I'd probably focus on shooting. 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:09.039 Yeah. 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.440 You'd shoot, you'd dribble, you'd pass. 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:18.319 You'd focus on the fundamentals, the elemental things, and you would just try to practice those things. 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.279 That's right. 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:30.480 So to me, I I get motivated and also somewhat frustrated when I watch people focused on the wrong things and then not getting the outcomes they want. 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:31.119 Yeah. 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:43.279 And then being like, oh, I guess I just am too dumb or too, you know, haven't worked hard enough or whatever, and I'm gonna go back to the drawing board or go go back to the grind of practicing the wrong things. 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:44.000 Aaron Ross Powell Right. 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:58.480 And when you say the wrong things, are you talking about tools, frameworks, approaches that sort of isolate they're so specific to a very they're not universal, they're not elemental because it's you know, I mean I'm thinking like SWAT. 00:22:58.960 --> 00:22:59.599 Or anything. 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:15.279 It's it's going back to the I think how we started, which is like, do you are you if you're trying to be a good chef, a good cook, is it about learning one more recipe, or is it about learning the fundamentals? 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.079 Right. 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:20.319 Because the the fundamentals help you with every single recipe. 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:24.000 And the fundamentals make it so, and this is important. 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.519 I could I can't tell you how much how important this is. 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.279 The fundamentals make it so that you don't need recipes. 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:31.920 Yes. 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.839 That recipes are optional. 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:34.720 Yes. 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:42.960 The fundamentals make it so that if somebody throws eight random things on the table, you can make something delicious out of it. 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:44.880 There's a show on TV that does that. 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:45.359 Yeah. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:47.599 Yeah, there's challenges and stuff that do that. 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:54.079 That's what a chef or a cook is, is somebody who can take, you know, we'd throw whatever we got. 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:54.720 Mm-hmm. 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:55.680 Make something delicious. 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:57.279 And make something delicious. 00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:59.440 That's how ideas work, too. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.079 It's like you're gonna get what you get. 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:05.200 You're gonna have you're gonna have the hand that you're dealt. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:09.440 A good gambler takes the hand they're dealt and then plays it. 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:11.039 Plays that hand, right? 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:11.839 You're a good gambler. 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:12.720 I'll not do that. 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.440 But you know, it's the same with thinking. 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:26.640 It's like you're gonna get a bunch of information, organize it in the best way possible that's the most in alignment and in tune with reality and the situation that you're in. 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.119 And that's the same as the the example of the food. 00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:31.599 Yeah. 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:37.200 But if you're if you if you're only used to doing recipes, then you're gonna be like, there's no recipe for this. 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:37.519 Yeah. 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:38.720 I don't know what to do. 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:38.960 Right. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:43.920 When there's no recipe telling me instructions of what to do, right? 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:44.240 Yeah. 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:52.880 And that's one of the complaints of lots of organizations is like, oh, this person's really great if if I can give them clear instructions. 00:24:53.440 --> 00:25:02.079 But if they have to think, you know, and figure things out in adaptive situations, hard to do. 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:02.559 Yeah. 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:02.880 Yeah. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.559 Our students or grad students at at Cornell were the same way. 00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:07.039 Yep. 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.279 You know, it's like they they can take any test and get an A. 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:11.920 Yeah. 00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:19.359 But you ask them to solve uh uh an unstructured problem, and they look at you like, wait a minute,

what? 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.079 That's not a but by the end of the semester, they're rock stars. 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.960 Well, we would teach them how to do it, but uh but I'm saying without those fundamentals, it's hard to do that. 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.880 Yeah, but that's also because fundamentally we're still we're still bamboozled by I. 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:33.440 Yeah. 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:33.920 Right? 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:45.359 We're we still think it's about I it's still like I think I need to learn 10,000 recipes, but I am in school and I need to learn 10,000 things, read 10,000 books, where it's really not that. 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.119 It's not about the informational content. 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:47.359 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:59.599 Well, uh you bring up a really important point, which is that most people believe that meaning or knowledge or whatever you want to call it or mental models is quite literally equal to I. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:00.160 Yeah. 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.720 That if you have uh more I, more information, you'll have more meaning. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.440 And that is just couldn't be further from the truth. 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:14.319 More I does not get you better solutions, more I does not get you better knowing, more meaning. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:19.440 What gets you more meaning is better organization of I. 00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:30.400 If I had if I had to choose between more information but no better organization, and better organization of a limited eye, I would take better organization of limited eye. 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.799 Right, because you can use that organization on anything. 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.759 Because it makes actual meaning instead of just more. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:42.880 Like, you know, think think of you know in AI all the time is it's pouring out information. 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.960 It's so chatty and so whatever. 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:46.880 And you're like, how useful is that? 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.799 It's tons of information, too much information, doesn't help me. 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:57.920 But information organized in a a little bit of information organized in a better way, super useful. 00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:58.319 Yeah. 00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.920 I can go all day with that. 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:00.400 Yeah. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:08.240 So when we make the mistake that m equals i instead of m equals io, we're making a an absolutely fatal error. 00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:08.480 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:16.160 Yeah, and I think that's that, you know, you become products of that, ironically, you become products of that institutionalized mental model. 00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:16.559 Yeah. 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:19.359 And it's not until later that you learn differently. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:24.319 But because you believe this, you also distrust that anything can be elemental or universal. 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:24.880 Yeah. 00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:28.079 So you've got this sort of We do this all the time, by the way. 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.680 This like you want two examples, m equals I. 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:45.279 Our whole education system has made this mistake, and we've created curriculum that's a lot, a lot, yeah, is predicated on just memorizing and regurgitating information. 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:46.079 Yes. 00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.160 And then take the the organizational business environment. 00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:56.960 We we have a an email or memo or PDF, and we send it to the thousand people. 00:27:57.039 --> 00:27:57.200 Yeah. 00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.920 And we think, now we're all on the same page. 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:00.799 No, you're not. 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:20.720 You sent a bunch of information at who knows what meaning people made out of that information because you didn't you didn't help them structure the information in a way that helps them share a mental model, which is that not only do we have the same I, but we organize it the same way. 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:21.519 Yes. 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:22.160 Right? 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:28.880 So, you know, this seems like such a simple thing to have your definition be m equals i, but it's catastrophic. 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:30.079 It's a huge impact. 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:30.880 Huge impact. 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:32.000 Downstream of things. 00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:32.400 Yeah. 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:34.480 And it's happening in so many places. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:35.200 Yes. 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:35.839 Yes. 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.359 This kind of went everywhere, but I don't know where even where we started. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:40.000 Yeah. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.079 It started because I literally asked you, what's on your mind? 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:49.839 And lo and behold, universality and elementalism. 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:50.400 Yeah. 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:53.200 And there was something else I can't remember, but Thurman was. 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.720 And I thought to myself, wow, those are big thoughts. 00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.920 They're beautiful. 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.519 They're elegant and and beautiful words. 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.640 If you think about it, universality and elementalism. 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:05.759 Elementalism. 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:06.799 No, I like it. 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:08.720 Anyway, I just thought it was interesting. 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.960 And then I thought, if I think it's interesting, of course I assume everyone else will think it's interesting. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:13.359 I don't know. 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:14.240 I could be wrong. 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:15.039 It could be. 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:15.920 I could be wrong. 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:16.640 Who knows? 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.160 We'll know at some point. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.480 Well, I think that's a wrap.