From Capitalist Grind to Creative Freedom featuring Nora Rahimian의 전체 녹취록

yeah, I am an anti-capitalist business coach. 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,560 I produce a hip hop festival. 36 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,680 I run Culture Fix, which is this global network of artists doing incredible things around 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,920 the world while trying to make the world a better place. 38 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:39,440 I have a YouTube channel that's full of practical advice for independent artists. 39 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,800 And so really everything, you know, I take on a bunch of projects, but everything that 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:49,760 I do is at this intersection of creativity and social impact and entrepreneurship and 41 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,880 the of making the world a better place for all of us where we can just create and be 42 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,160 artists and do the things that we want to do. 43 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:02,000 And do the things that we want to do and that we were created to do. 44 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,280 You know, I think that that reframe or that little pause that you just had there about 45 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,400 wait a second, how am I going to answer that question is, like you said, a good introduction 46 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,960 even to the type of conversation that we want to have. 47 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,240 Because so often times that's how these conversations start, right? 48 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:28,200 In our society, it's like, who are you and what are you about automatically means like, 49 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:29,200 what are you doing? 50 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,200 What's your job? 51 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,600 What are you putting out there? 52 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,600 What are you like producing? 53 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:37,600 And you stopped. 54 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:42,320 And of course you have that stuff that you just listed out and all of it sounds really 55 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:48,120 amazing, but you said, but really the purpose of who I am and what I'm about is to make 56 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:54,240 the world a better place to challenge the structures that have been in existence for 57 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:00,160 so long and have become increasingly a disservice to all of us. 58 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,600 And that is really, really kind of what you're about. 59 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:13,200 Something that you do then is just an outpouring or a branch of that larger purpose. 60 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:20,200 Can you just to set the stage for people who are listening to this who might be new to 61 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:25,240 some of the some of the ideas that you're bringing. 62 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:30,880 Can you set the stage for them and for all of us really just so we're all starting at 63 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,880 the same place? 64 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:41,840 Like what it means to be anti-capitalist in business or entrepreneurship and how that 65 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:49,480 is

different than being in the regular flow of stuff. 66 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,480 Right. 67 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:55,920 So anti-capitalism does not mean that you don't get paid and it does not mean that we 68 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,800 can't have nice things. 69 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,800 It means which are the two like biggest, you know, misconceptions. 70 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,680 If I do this, am I going to be like poor all of a sudden or am I going to be like, yeah, 71 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:06,680 not able to make ends meet? 72 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,680 That's not what it's about. 73 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:08,680 It's not what it's about. 74 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,600 It's actually the opposite of that. 75 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:17,200 It means that we are all compensated fairly for our labor, whether that's physical or 76 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,520 emotional or intellectual or creative. 77 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:26,600 So it's also expanding our ideas of what work and productivity and labor look like. 78 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:32,000 You know, for many of us, we do like caregiving work or we do creative work and that's not 79 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,920 considered work. 80 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,480 And so here you are at the end of the day. 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,680 You've done all these things. 82 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,320 You're exhausted and you're like, oh, but I didn't do anything today. 83 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:41,320 What? 84 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,320 So much later. 85 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:43,320 You took care of the kid. 86 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:44,320 You checked on an elder. 87 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:45,480 You showed up for your community. 88 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:46,480 You made some art. 89 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,160 You cleaned your house, right? 90 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,680 Like all these things. 91 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:56,200 And so the anti-capitalism is really about looking at the entire system and the big picture 92 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:02,120 in which we operate and realizing that there's just different ways of doing it where the 93 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,360 things that we've normalized, right? 94 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:10,280 Grind, hustle, inequality, that those things don't have to be that way and that there's 95 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:15,320 other ways of doing it where we still get our needs met, where we still can have nice 96 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:21,720 things, you know, we can still indulge, but you treat people well in that process and 97 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,760 you treat yourself well in that process, right? 98 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,720 You are a human and not a robot for productivity. 99 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,960 That our life is not productivity. 100 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:29,960 Yeah. 101 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:30,960 Yeah. 102 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:37,720 You're speaking to my soul right now because, you know, obviously, you know, if you're, if 103 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:44,240 anyone's watching the video part of this, like I'm a white cis-presenting guy, right? 104 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:54,520 And it's been like drilled into me that, you know, my worth is what I produce and how I 105 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:59,160 provide and, you know, yada, yada, yada, right? 106 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:10,280 And like, I'm so tired all of the time and the work that I do is very others' focus, 107 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,120 but I'm always like, how can I do more of it? 108 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,120 I need to do more of it. 109 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,280 I'm not being productive enough. 110 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,480 I'm not being, I'm not making enough money. 111 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:18,640 I'm falling behind. 112 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:24,080 What about this person over here who is like, who looks like they're making all of this 113 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,800 more stuff, more money than I am, right? 114 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,040 And like, I always feel like I'm out of breath. 115 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,760 And the artist side of me, who's a, I'm a painter and I'm a maker and that way. 116 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,520 And I don't feel like I ever have enough left to actually do that. 117 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:46,640 And that was my first calling, right, as a person is to be an artist. 118 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:52,280 And at the end of the day, after I'm done showing up for everybody else and, you know, 119 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,600 showing up and working, contributing to the, to the workforce, like I, I have people on 120 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,920 a, on a staff too, right? 121 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:02,720 I'm like, I'm so tired. 122 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,360 What is, what is the point of all of this? 123 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,720 And how can I possibly get upstairs to the studio? 124 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,720 Right, well, and you, you said something about like, I can work, work, work, and then I start 125 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,920 to compare myself to other people. 126 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,600 And then I feel like I've got to go to work, work, work, work more. 127 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:25,600 And another piece of like white supremacist patriarchal capitalism is in competition with 128 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:26,600 one another. 129 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,800 And especially as creatives, I think oftentimes we think that there can only be one superstar, 130 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,600 one icon, you know, and the reality is we're not in competition with each other. 131 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,880 And so if you give yourself permission to focus on your relationship first with yourself, 132 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:50,080 second with your art, and third with your fans and your audience in that, then other 133 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:57,280 creatives become allies, collaborators, partners, you know, co-conspirators, whatever

you want 134 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:58,640 to call them. 135 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,200 And then there's a way that we can win together because this, if we're pitting ourselves against 136 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,080 each other and we're thinking that there's only such a small, you know, like small, what 137 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,520 is it that barrel of crabs mentality? 138 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:11,520 Yeah. 139 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,320 That takes a lot of energy. 140 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:18,320 And so that's another piece of the anti-capitalism is that we're actually all in support and 141 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:19,760 community with each other. 142 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,680 And we make better art that way. 143 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:24,360 We reach more, you know, more fans that way. 144 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,360 We grow bigger. 145 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,560 We have more resources. 146 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:27,560 Right. 147 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,920 And so really pushing back against that competition piece can be really helpful. 148 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:32,920 Yeah. 149 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:40,600 I see the competition piece in so many different corners of the world that I operate in. 150 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:48,800 One of the areas that I operate in is within the mental health and therapeutic space with 151 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,040 private practitioners. 152 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,360 We're not going to get into on this podcast like a whole conversation about the structure 153 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:01,240 of healthcare in the United States of America and all of that business. 154 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:12,680 But I will mention that in the private practice space, therapists are required to, because 155 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:19,720 of the structure and the system that we're in, to have like this business mindset where, 156 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:26,240 you know, we need to be attracting clients in order to like maintain our livelihood, 157 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:32,680 which is providing therapy to people, providing counseling to folks. 158 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:38,760 And one of the things that's really scary right now is big business, right? 159 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:46,320 Like the place that everyone buys their stuff from that's named after a florist. 160 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:47,920 I don't want to say the name of it. 161 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:58,640 But you know, is coming out with like $99 a year, get your get therapy and private practice. 162 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:04,920 People are like, one, that's going to be like horrible therapy to, oh my gosh, we're now 163 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:13,680 in competition with this giant corporation that's eating everything in its path. 164 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:14,680 Plus we're in comp. 165 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:20,080 So then because of that, we're also in competition with each other. 166 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:28,640 And I try to keep a really kind, I try to keep a really kind of level headed kind of 167 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,520 mindset about it and that like, I'm not in competition with that guy and his gigantic 168 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,840 situation over there. 169 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,320 Like he's going to do what he's going to do and grow whatever and people are going to 170 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:47,200 go to him and then, you know, they're going to, you know, get what they need or not. 171 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,840 And then these other private practitioners that I'm with over here, they're not my competition 172 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:58,160 either because we all bring something very unique and special to the space, right? 173 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:03,320 We all can't serve or help everybody. 174 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,040 We're not going to be for everybody. 175 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:11,000 And in the same way that that's true in that corner of my universe, it's also true in the 176 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,560 art corner of my universe, which is my art speaks to, you know, certain people at certain 177 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:23,160 times and certain places and it's not going to be for everybody. 178 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:31,520 So they have other artists to go to and collaborate with or collect from. 179 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,960 And I can introduce those people to those artists and we can have this really great 180 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,400 back and forth relationship and dialogue with one another. 181 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:49,800 But it's so easy in our world, Nora, to get sucked into the fear of, oh my gosh, there's 182 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:55,960 this big monster out there who's going to eat me up and I'm not going to have anything 183 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:56,960 for myself. 184 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:57,960 Right. 185 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:05,800 Well, and part of that is the more, you know, part of the anti-capitalist perspective 186 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,840 is to think of people as people, right? 187 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:15,440 Like your customers, your audience, they're not robots, they're not dollar signs, right? 188 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:16,940 They're people. 189 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:22,080 And for better or for worse, one of the things with social media and having so many options 190 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:29,560 is that there are a lot of artists and there are a lot of fans and fans get to choose where 191 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:33,520 they spend their time, their social capital, their energy. 192 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:40,880 And so I think one of the things that we're seeing more of is a hypernishing of artists 193 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,880 and fan relationships. 194 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:50,360 So I can now choose exactly the artist that I want, exactly the music that I can listen 195 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,520 to, and I can choose where I put that money and my time and my energy and my social

capital. 196 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:02,080 And so it's if you cultivate the human to human relationship, which is why, you know, 197 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,640 you're not going to be like, hi, I'm a musician, stream my music. 198 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,200 You're going to say, hi, I make music. 199 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,240 I care about dogs and saving the pandas. 200 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:18,440 And then now as a fan, I find something emotional to connect with. 201 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,600 And then the music comes next, right? 202 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,960 Like if you think about whoever your favorite artist is, I'm sure their music is good. 203 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,800 But the thing that makes you stand for them is everything else that they stand for and 204 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:31,800 represent. 205 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,720 So, you know, these corporations will be there and we should boycott them and they should 206 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:41,240 unionize and they should really be regulated and taken off the face of the planet. 207 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,880 But until then, until then, we have to figure out a way of. 208 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,760 And so it's it's trusting that your audience will support you if you show up for your audience 209 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:51,760 first. 210 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:52,760 Right. 211 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:59,360 And so like it's really a relationship of mutuality and leaning into the hypernishing, 212 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,640 which also then opens up ways of having different revenue streams and different definitions of 213 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:06,640 success. 214 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,640 Yeah. 215 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:13,880 Because the big companies, you're counting on like a million followers to make you two 216 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:14,880 dollars. 217 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,440 Well, if you're counting on 10 followers, those 10 followers are going to give you 10 218 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,640 whole dollars themselves. 219 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:21,640 Right. 220 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,280 So it's just really thinking outside of the conventional box of what you've been told 221 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:32,240 success is and trusting that you and your audience can define for yourself what that 222 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,240 looks and feels like. 223 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:40,600 And my theory is that eventually that pushes out those companies that aren't doing anyone 224 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,120 a service, but they're irrelevant because we're not in competition with them. 225 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,200 It's about me, the artist and you, my fan and the relationship that we're cultivating 226 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,200 here. 227 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,200 Right. 228 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,200 Right. 229 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:58,760 So if you show up for something about, you know, if you show up for your fans first, 230 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:06,000 if you show up for your audience first, then they'll show up for you. 231 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:12,240 How would you, I mean, and you've been talking about, you know, being relational, building 232 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:19,440 an emotional connection with your, with the person that's sitting across from you or whatever. 233 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,240 So I understand that. 234 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:27,520 I guess I'm wondering, is there more to showing up for your fans first so that they then show 235 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,360 up for you than, than what we've just been talking about? 236 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,360 Or is that pretty much it? 237 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,760 I mean, maybe getting into some like that. 238 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,760 What does it mean to show up? 239 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Might be helpful. 240 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:37,760 Yeah. 241 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,760 I think that's, that's a good, yeah. 242 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:39,760 Hello. 243 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Yeah. 244 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:41,760 What does it mean to show up for these people? 245 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:42,760 How do we show up? 246 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:43,760 Right. 247 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,080 And it's things like one, showing bits and pieces of yourself. 248 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:52,760 And that doesn't mean you have to like put your personal life on last and like, you know, 249 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,760 use your baby to get likes. 250 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:59,440 But it's, what are the things that make you, you, whether it's, it's sports, whether it's 251 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,720 art, whatever, and show that, right? 252 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,560 So that people see a personality because we connect to personality. 253 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,680 We don't connect to a brand. 254 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,640 So that's one. 255 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,360 Two is speaking on the things that your audience is impacted by, which I think a lot of artists 256 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:16,120 are like, oh, well, I might alienate fans. 257 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:17,120 But that's okay. 258 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:18,320 Cause you're not going to, right? 259 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,320 We've been talking about, you're not going to be for everybody. 260 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,160 But when you speak up, you're going to the ones who are going to like really show up 261 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,120 for you are really going to show up for you. 262 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:28,760 So speaking on things is two. 263 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,280 And then three is just showing the process. 264 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,680 Like as creatives, we do so much work. 265 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,680 Yeah. 266 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,360 Then if all your audience sees as the product, well, that's cool. 267 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:44,400 But they haven't seen the means of production

and all the blood, sweat, tears you put in. 268 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:50,080 So making the invisible visible, showing how you record a song or how you're mixing your 269 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:56,080 paints or all the like, I don't know if you're woodworking and like how you, I don't, I don't 270 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:57,080 know anything about woodworking. 271 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,560 So you're saying things or like whatever. 272 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:00,560 Yeah. 273 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:06,640 And after show me, show me that you're studying, show me that you're meeting with a consultant. 274 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:07,640 Show me that. 275 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:13,240 Everett is because then your audience sees the investment that you're putting in and 276 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,000 your audience will only be as excited as you are. 277 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,280 So if you show all the work, then they're going to show up and meet you halfway. 278 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,840 But it really is, I think a lot of times people think, well, I just did the art, just support 279 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:26,800 my art, but it's the other way around. 280 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:32,000 You have to earn people's support and you earn it by showing up by being a little vulnerable. 281 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,000 It's right. 282 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,440 It's like you're going to build a relationship with someone. 283 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:36,680 You got to put yourself out there. 284 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:37,680 Yeah. 285 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:38,680 It's the same thing with art. 286 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:51,160 So yeah, like one coach that I used, that I worked with called this or something similar 287 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,840 to this, like a no-liking trust factor, right? 288 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,360 So people need to know you first. 289 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:57,920 They need to know that you exist, right? 290 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,720 Then they need to like you. 291 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,400 So like they need to get to know like, who is this person? 292 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Do I like them? 293 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,960 Like are they someone that I can kind of hang around with? 294 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:14,040 And then trust is what they need to be able to like take that relationship further, right? 295 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:20,360 Can I trust this person with, you know, whatever it is that I'm coming to them for, that I'm 296 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:25,280 hanging around them or for the reasons that I'm hanging around them? 297 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,280 Right? 298 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,280 So it's really important. 299 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:33,760 You don't just automatically show up on someone's screen or on their phone or at some event 300 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,880 and have their trust and buy in right away necessarily. 301 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:39,880 Yeah. 302 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,160 Well, and especially if you look at the world that we're living in, right? 303 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:49,160 Because this is the other piece is you have to understand what your audience is going through. 304 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,520 And really like the question I give my clients is what problem are you solving for them? 305 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,680 What are you offering them that no one else is offering? 306 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,880 And so in a world where everyone like, there's no housing, there's no healthcare, we're on 307 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,440 the brink of another world. 308 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,480 There's like, there's all this stuff. 309 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:15,720 Now you're asking me in my very limited free time to take a risk on doing, you know, interacting 310 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,920 with your art that I don't know if I'm going to like it. 311 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,200 I don't know how or I could go to my tried and true same song that I've been listening 312 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:29,680 to for the last month because it's and so there's like an emotional mental thing happening 313 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:30,680 there. 314 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,800 And so one of the things that I have the trust is if you show me, if I like you, if I know 315 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,800 you all, if we've done all that pre-work, then I'm going to be much more likely to take 316 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,240 a risk on you, the newbie, right? 317 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,840 The unproven one that going to where I know because my time is valuable and I have so little 318 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:56,160 of it and I can't handle another disappointment in a world of like stressful news cycles. 319 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,360 And I know that's maybe melodramatic because we don't consciously think of it that way. 320 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:04,640 But we got like art is emotional. 321 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,640 And so we go to art when we want something emotional. 322 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,160 And if I don't know that I'm going to get that emotional need met from you, I'm going 323 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,760 to go to where the sure thing is. 324 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:19,760 And so that's why the trust building once you built that trust is smooth sailing. 325 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,280 Like your audience is going to be there, but you've got to put in that front end work so 326 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,560 that I can take that risk on you and be emotionally vulnerable. 327 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,560 Right. 328 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,840 No, that's true. 329 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:40,640 I'm just thinking about like my own experience in the world right now and just being regularly 330 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:46,840 inundated with people's stories and listening to their trauma and helping them through that. 331 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,840 And then going upstairs after I'm finished with

the day and like it's more of that stuff 332 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:57,840 is just broadcast in front of me and then I go to the gym and that's where I want to 333 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480 like pick things up and put them down and get rid of stress. 334 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,480 Right. 335 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320 But I also like listen to music then mostly. 336 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,960 And you're right. 337 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,160 What's going to make me feel better? 338 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:14,040 Well, I know that this artist and this song is going to like help me focus and it's going 339 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,800 to make me feel better and I'm going to feel more grounded and all of this kind of stuff. 340 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:24,040 But I've been hearing about this other artist who supposedly has this really great new song 341 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:30,160 out or new album out and like, man, I would like to, but like I have, like you said, 342 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:36,760 like I have 30 minutes or 45 minutes right now and I have to shift from feeling overwhelmed 343 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,360 to feeling grounded in that 45 minutes. 344 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:43,880 And am I going to put that time into this person who I haven't really seen what they're 345 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,280 about other than hearing that they're good? 346 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:53,320 And usually I might start a song then on this new artist, right? 347 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,880 But then I'm like, this is not like, you know, and I go back to the tried and true one pretty 348 00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,880 quickly. 349 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:05,360 But if I have seen stuff that they've put out on their profiles or like I've read something 350 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:09,520 that they've written or an interview that they've given and I can connect with their 351 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:15,640 message, I'm going to stay with that, you know, that new music maybe a little bit longer 352 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,080 and give them a go, right? 353 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,360 Because I've heard their heart, I've heard their story, I've connected with who they 354 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:27,280 are as a person and I'm willing, like you said, to give that time to them in hopes that 355 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,120 they're able to help me feel better and be more connected to myself and the world around 356 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:32,120 me. 357 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:35,920 Well, there is like a hack or a shortcut for this. 358 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,480 Oh, I like that. 359 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,520 Which is word of mouth, right? 360 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,680 If someone else that I already know, like and trust says, Nora, you should check out 361 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,600 this film or this artist or this installation. 362 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,640 That fast tracks you to the top of my playlist because this person that I've already built 363 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,640 the relationship. 364 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,640 Right. 365 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,520 So as artists, the other thing that I think is really important to do is to cultivate community 366 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,760 amongst your supporters so that there's a relationship between you and your fan, but 367 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:15,000 also a relationship amongst your fans because then they will do a lot of the labor for you. 368 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,960 Oh, you should check out this artist is the best. 369 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,480 Oh, don't sleep on. 370 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:28,440 And we've seen this with like so many Stan armies and like both creatively and politically 371 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:36,360 financially here in LA, like they named some, I think it's like some K-pop artist. 372 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:39,440 This animal was born, the animal looked like a K-pop artist. 373 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,920 And so they write a ton of money to name the animal after the K-pop artist. 374 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,240 It was like the biggest fundraiser. 375 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:53,320 So we see that it doesn't have to be, if you build that community aspect, then a lot of 376 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:59,240 the labor that you as an artist is doing in terms of marketing and comms and PR, now your 377 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,280 fans are going to do it for you. 378 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,880 And then you can step out and do the creative piece and just check in and still have that. 379 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:13,680 So community is the shortcut to all this like, I mean, and none of us want to be on social 380 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:14,680 media marketing. 381 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,000 Like no one enjoys that shit. 382 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,000 Let's be honest. 383 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,400 Like we don't want to think about how to hack an algorithm. 384 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,400 You can't. 385 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:28,080 So it's so like community and building a relationship again between you and your audience, but then 386 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,800 amongst your audience, like amongst themselves, build something really sustainable and long 387 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,520 term so that you can focus on the things that really matter to you. 388 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,840 Not to say your fans don't matter. 389 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,800 Your fans should always matter, but the other stuff. 390 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,040 No, but yeah, like you're what you want to be doing, right? 391 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,440 You can get back to what you want to be doing and why and like, you know, the reason why 392 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,440 you're having, why you're cultivating fans, right? 393 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,480 And I noticed that on social media too, like when you're trying to start a social media 394 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:03,200 group or, you

know, community, it takes a lot of work and effort upfront, right? 395 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,480 It's really slow, slow growing and like you have to be really highly engaged with every 396 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040 person that's in that space. 397 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,800 But after a while, right? 398 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,440 After you've like planted seeds and you've engaged them and they're, they start talking 399 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,800 to each other and then like I'm not managing those spaces all of the time. 400 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,440 I can kind of take a step back and it's running itself and I go in there and I like, of course 401 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:38,080 I'm active in these spaces, but it's not all predicated on me doing all of that work anymore. 402 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,480 But I've given them something that they can jive with and, you know, I'm finally starting 403 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:52,040 to get back to doing more of those things in person, which I'm so excited about because 404 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,280 I mean staring at these like boxes all the time without like having real human interaction 405 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,760 is really draining too. 406 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,960 I just ran with a friend of mine, you know, a new, we just had the first iteration of 407 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,440 a new event that we're going to be trying to do and it brought in like, you know, a 408 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,440 small number of people because it's the first time we're doing it, but these people had 409 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:21,160 such a great time connecting with one another and just like really minimal programming and 410 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,480 effort on the part of me and my partner. 411 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,480 But they were like, I want more of this. 412 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,800 I need more of this. 413 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,480 And we're going to show up again and we're going to bring our friends, right? 414 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,480 And that's how this stuff gets going. 415 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Yeah. 416 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,160 And, you know, the number piece I think is really important. 417 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,720 I love that you said like small number of people showed up because I think sometimes 418 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:48,480 there's a sense of shame around I did this event and just a few people came or I sent 419 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:54,200 my newsletter, but only two people opened it or get an Instagram live and it was just 420 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,560 a handful of people. 421 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,560 And that's okay. 422 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,880 But one, it doesn't make you any less of an artist, right? 423 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,600 Like there's no numerical threshold that if you get this many likes, now you are officially 424 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,600 like, right? 425 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,600 That's like the algorithm trying to control our behavior. 426 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,480 So you're an artist regardless of if you ever sell a piece, whatever. 427 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,160 But that's how it grows. 428 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,400 Two people come and then those two people bring someone and then those people, right? 429 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,080 And it's organic and it's slow, but it's real and it's strong. 430 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:31,600 And that, you know, and so I just think that's an important thing that like there's no shame 431 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,360 if your numbers are small and there's no embarrassment, right? 432 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,200 Like there's no stigma. 433 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,080 And actually that's a great way to be like, yo, I did an event and two people came shout 434 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,080 out to those two people who came to see you all next time. 435 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,440 The rest of y'all you missed out. 436 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,680 You missed out. 437 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,520 You can really lean into it and celebrate because that's the beauty of small is it allows 438 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,560 for real meaningful connection because the other, you know, we talked about no like and 439 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,600 trust the other pieces people want to be seen, heard and understood. 440 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:05,600 Yes. 441 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:11,960 And so yes, if you can make each of your fans, especially those like initial people who just 442 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:18,000 like love you and believe in you, if you can make them feel seen, heard and understood 443 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,720 and you've got those two things happening at the same time, like that's the recipe for 444 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,120 success right there. 445 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,120 Yeah. 446 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,120 Yeah. 447 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:31,800 And so, you know, I want to kind of ask a question and I see where you see where you 448 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,800 land on this. 449 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,720 And I think it's somewhat connected. 450 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040 Hopefully we can draw a connection to what we're talking about. 451 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,240 But if not, it's just a hard turn. 452 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,520 I've been talking with with a bunch of people online. 453 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,960 I was actually just having a little back and forth with someone. 454 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:57,320 I probably think some annoying now, but about like the idea of whether or not war, like 455 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,960 being a content creator is a bad thing or not. 456 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,120 Or if you can, if you can actually differentiate yourself, like if you're putting your stuff 457 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:14,360 up on social media, you're being your content creator, right? 458 00:30:14,360 -->

00:30:19,400 And it's where the differentiation comes. 459 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:24,840 And what I was trying to, this person was like, well, you know, I'm not a content creator 460 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,280 because I'm not doing putting stuff, I'm not publishing things in a performative matter. 461 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,840 I'm not like holding my painting and like turning around and like doing all like these 462 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:40,720 things that are meant to like, you know, hack the algorithm that we're not able to hack. 463 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,520 And so, but I'm doing this because I'm trying to keep track of, you know, my progress. 464 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,320 I'm trying to let people see my process. 465 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,240 I'm trying to do some of these other things that you and I have been talking about. 466 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,480 That's still content creation though, right? 467 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,480 The good question. 468 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,560 I think there's a difference between content creation and being a content creator. 469 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:08,320 So all of us, right, from like the stay at home parent who's posting pictures of their 470 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:14,040 kids for grandma to the influencer who's trying to get like that sponsorship. 471 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:20,520 Every time we post, we're creating content for the only purpose to keep these apps well 472 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,960 funded in the live, right? 473 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,720 Like it's not to build your business. 474 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,560 And I think that's such an important distinction because what that speaks to is that there 475 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,880 are not places that's at least in the United States, there's not places that support or 476 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,280 facilitate creative discovery, creative connection. 477 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:46,960 Like unless I actively go to a museum or I go to a show, we don't have cultural spaces 478 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,000 that say, Hey, look, artists can come and just exhibit. 479 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:59,720 So social media fills this need, but it's actually, I think, taking away more from us 480 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,840 than giving to us, even though we've been gaslit, right? 481 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:03,840 Right. 482 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:09,120 Why, because if like the socials were really on our side, 100% of our followers would see 483 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,040 100% of our content. 484 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,040 They don't. 485 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:13,040 Why? 486 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,560 So that you can buy ads and do whatever like reels because reels keep on the app longer 487 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,760 than, you know, like, so I think it's important to distinguish between content creation, which 488 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,560 we all do and being a content creator, which for me is explicitly saying, I'm getting my 489 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:38,120 income or trying to get like, this is part of what I do, because I think being a content 490 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:46,680 creator requires you to please the algorithm rather than creating for the sake of creativity 491 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:47,680 or right. 492 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,520 It does influence our behavior. 493 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,680 We think, okay, if I post it this time, I'm going to get more views. 494 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,680 So I'm going to do that. 495 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,600 Or I did this kind of content and it did really well. 496 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,400 So I'm going to do more of it. 497 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,360 I'm a big believer in that capitalism is just really bad for creativity and innovation. 498 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,200 Because once you start to please the things that capitalism rewards, rather than taking 499 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,120 a risk or doing something so ridiculous and people aren't going to like it because you 500 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,120 want to get likes. 501 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,480 It's not so there's something very restrict like the freedom of creativity or exploration 502 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:30,360 gets restricted when we're reliant on these algorithms. 503 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,840 And there's a lot of research being done about that, right? 504 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,120 About our behavior. 505 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,200 But I think that distinction is important and it's rooted in this bigger systemic issue 506 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,400 of if we had affordable housing and healthcare, I wouldn't have to be a content creator because 507 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,760 I could just make art and universal basic income would provide for my needs. 508 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,520 And so we could put things where they need to go rather than trying to like survive off 509 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,520 of... 510 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,520 Yeah. 511 00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:59,520 Yeah. 512 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:00,520 I know what I'm trying to say. 513 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,520 Yeah. 514 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:07,080 Trying to survive off all of the little crumbs that are thrown out for us and we all have 515 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,480 to fight for it, right? 516 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,720 And you said something else. 517 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:12,320 This is just a really interesting conversation. 518 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,960 I'm so glad that you're here having it with us. 519 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:24,200 You said something about capitalism being bad for creativity, being bad for innovation. 520 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:30,480 And what you said, the direct opposite of what they said capitalism was supposed to 521 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,480 do. 522 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,720 Like capitalism was supposed to fuel innovation, right? 523 00:34:34,720 -->

00:34:42,000 And fuel ideas and growth and all of that kind of thing originally, right? 524 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:49,560 But now you were saying, has it always been that way or has it gone sour here? 525 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,560 No. 526 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,520 I think it's always been that way, right? 527 00:34:52,520 --> 00:35:01,880 And we've been told of free market is what creates, but only if it creates money, right? 528 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:10,720 And so we've learned not to value things that have a clear productivity impact or clear 529 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,400 financial impact. 530 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:19,080 So service labor isn't valued, creative labor isn't valued, care work isn't valued, community 531 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:25,640 work isn't valued under that versus if we say, you know what, we're going to just value 532 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:32,280 things that are valuable and we can decide for ourselves what that looks and feels like, 533 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:37,800 then spending a day with my dog is really valuable or I could get really creative in 534 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:44,040 terms of there's something about only measuring success in terms of how much money it makes 535 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,280 us. 536 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:51,160 That is really, really restrictive for multiple reasons. 537 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,120 Yeah. 538 00:35:53,120 --> 00:36:01,840 Got to get away from all of our worth being what we are able to like put in our pocket 539 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520 at the end of the day and do. 540 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:11,400 So as we start to wrap up here, like, are there some things that you can either reiterate 541 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:20,280 or offer us again or for the first time, artists, like what can artists be doing to really challenge 542 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:28,040 this notion of like capitalism being what's their, how they're operating and what they're 543 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:34,200 operating within and how they can actually get back to, you know, being the makers that 544 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:41,560 they are while still really, truly needing to coexist with this. 545 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:42,560 Yeah. 546 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,080 Anything that's on fire. 547 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,040 I think just asking, like just questioning things, do I really want this or have I been 548 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,920 told I should want this? 549 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,440 Does this matter to me or have I been conditioned to think that just, you know, one of the ways 550 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:01,680 that capitalism works is that it's so like, it's, it's incipient, is that the word? 551 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,440 It's like so there and we just assume it's, it's hegemony. 552 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:13,200 And so just questioning the nature of things is a really helpful way to start to unpack 553 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,040 what's yours versus what's been given to you. 554 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,680 And then think, decide for yourself. 555 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,320 And I think this is especially like, well, at any time it's a good activity to sit down 556 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,800 and be like, what does success look like and feel like for me and ask for work towards 557 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:29,800 that. 558 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,880 So if you're in your community, find your collaborators, your colleagues, your allies, 559 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,720 think about what collaboration can look like, be proactive and reach, hey, really liked 560 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,080 your artwork that I saw, like slide into people's DMs and just love on them. 561 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:45,080 Respectful. 562 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,080 Respectful. 563 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,080 Yes. 564 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,240 Like really build and participate in community. 565 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:58,520 And then lastly, just remember that your worth is not tied to what you do or how much 566 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,960 you produce or how many likes you get, but really, you know, you're an artist because 567 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,440 you are an artist. 568 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Like there's no qualifiers to that. 569 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,080 And you're worthy because you're worthy and there's no qualifiers to that. 570 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,880 And so capitalism tries to dehumanize us and anything you can do to remind yourself of 571 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,280 your own humanity. 572 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,360 And then maybe pass that out to your community. 573 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,440 That's I think really important and really powerful. 574 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,440 Yeah, that is. 575 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,440 That is. 576 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:32,800 And for some reason, so hard to remember and like, integrate into our lives each day. 577 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,240 Nora, so how can people, if they want to hear more from you, if they want to connect 578 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:45,640 with you, maybe, you know, find some coaching with you? 579 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,560 How can people find you? 580 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,320 Do you have any offers or anything that people can take advantage of right now? 581 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,320 What's going on? 582 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,320 Yeah. 583 00:38:53,320 --> 00:39:00,040 I'm at Nora Rahimian, N-O-R-A-R-A-H-I-M-I-A-N on all your socials. 584 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,240 I have a really good newsletter. 585 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:02,240 I don't spam you. 586 00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:06,880 I send you a ton of things and I know my link tree will be in the show notes. 587 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,800 And then if you're interested in consulting, if you mentioned TJ's podcast, I'll give you 588 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,520 $50 off your first. 589 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,120 So just mention TJ.

590 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:17,760 And again, this is like collaboration. 591 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,400 TJ coaches, I coach, we're not in competition with each other. 592 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,400 This is like an alley. 593 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,400 Right? 594 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,240 Like win-win. 595 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,560 And so look at us like role modeling, right? 596 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,560 We're not just preaching. 597 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:29,560 Right. 598 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:30,560 What we're preaching. 599 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,160 But yeah, my DMs are always open. 600 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,960 I do coaching and consulting. 601 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,600 So like I said, $50 off your first three sessions with me, if not, sign up for the newsletter 602 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,640 because there's a ton of useful information on there as well as on the YouTube or just 603 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:51,200 slide in the DMs and be like, yo, I listened to your podcast or it was whack or whatever. 604 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,440 And I'd really like to hear from people. 605 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,440 That's awesome. 606 00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:01,200 And thank you so much for the generous reduction of your rate for those people who take advantage 607 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,200 of it. 608 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,200 It's really awesome. 609 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,200 And yeah, that's right. 610 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,760 Like everybody that I talk to, almost everybody that I have on the podcast does something like 611 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,240 similar to me, but with a different flavor, with a different spin, right? 612 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,320 Or they're just adjacent to me. 613 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:22,640 But I want people to know all different types of folks because like we were saying, all 614 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:28,560 of us can't help every single person that comes our way and different flavors of things 615 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,080 work for different people. 616 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,600 So totally, this is not competition. 617 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,240 This is actually like collaboration. 618 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,760 And I'm here for it. 619 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,960 And so with that, Nora, thank you so much for your time and for your expertise and for 620 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,040 your passion on these subjects. 621 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,760 I know this conversation really challenges me to think differently. 622 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,040 And God knows that I need to think differently out of times. 623 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,760 I like run into blind spots that I have all of the time. 624 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,400 And I'm constantly being called out or called in for them. 625 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,240 And I love learning. 626 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:06,360 And so thank you for all of this. 627 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,240 Everybody, this has been the Bold Creatives Collective podcast. 628 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:11,240 It's hard out there. 629 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:12,480 Let's support one another. 630 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,000 Let's love one another and make the world a better place as best as we can. 631 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,560 I'll see you all on the next episode. 632 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,560 Until then, have a great one. 633 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:39,560 See ya.