#157: The Market Doesn't Care About Your Story — What The Body Keeps the Score Teaches Traders About Risk의 전체 녹취록

don't have the ability to just switch the rational brain on or not. 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:08.079 Um, you know, they're not neurocol neurologically capable of thinking their way out of that moment. 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:32.160 Um and uh you know, if you ever see someone who's caught in a trauma or a panic, you know, what what what a a doctor or a medical person or even a coach would do is get them to breathe at that point, just sit with their breaths and count their breaths as a way of slowing it down and and getting back to rationalizing and being rational. 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:53.920 Um, and and you know, if if as a trader um you recognize this particular moment, it's where you have a plan, you have a process, you're watching the market, uh, you know what you want to do, and then the market goes a little bit crazy, volatility um picks up, or certain levels get broken. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:58.079 Um if you're in a trading room, there's a lot of shouting and screaming around you. 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:06.639 If you're working at home, you're seeing you know, you're seeing the market just suddenly, you know, move in leaps and bounds away from where you were. 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:20.079 Um and you just get you you might be at that point taken into almost a sort of mini panic state, and you kind of lose sight and forget your process and your plans. 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:36.079 Um and you only realize the time where afterwards, when this is over later on in the day, when you're looking at your PL and you're looking at your performance and you're trying to understand what happened, and you might say to yourself, What was I thinking then? 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:38.399 Why did I do that? 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:39.920 That was not in my plan. 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:41.839 What made me do that? 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:47.360 But the reason was it's because you've neurologically kind of gone offline. 00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:54.879 Your your prefrontal cortex, your thinking capabilities have gone offline and been taken over, been hijacked by the amygdala. 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:56.079 Okay. 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:01.040 Um, so I'm I'm gonna throw this over to Mark and get your views on this, Mark. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:03.600 Great, and thanks for that, Steve. 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:04.480 Very interesting topic. 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:08.079 This uh you're about to find out quite close to my heart. 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:18.399 So 200 million years ago or so, when the early brain was evolving, um physical threat was uh was was there to be dealt with. 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:29.120 And the amygdala was the early part of uh what that brain, of course, is part of our own brain, often referred to as the reptilian brain from our own perspective. 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:33.840 And the amygdala, of which there were two on one, there's one on the left and one on the right side of the brain. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:43.600 Um, they're called amygdala because it's a Greek word for almond, because they look like almonds, and um yeah, so but this was for a physical threat 200 million years ago. 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:51.120 But we're when in the modern world, of course, we perceive threat, and that threat can come from all sorts of places. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:09:06.799 Um we can create our own threat, by the way, that our mind wanders into disaster, but also if from a trading point of view something nasty happens, the amygdala is kind of like a tripwire, so it trips you in thinking I'm under threat. 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:24.639 Now, the problem is that we're using a 200 million old sort of operating system to face what is generally an emotional type of threat, uh, because it's emotional control we're talking about in terms of trades and our um reaction to trades going wrong. 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:29.759 And what it does, it floods the body with cortisol and adrenaline because it thinks you're about to go into physical threat. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:32.879 And you're just looking at a trade disaster, let's just say. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:36.559 So it's it's tearing you up for a physical threat. 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:41.919 So it widens out the arteries to allow blood to pump to the must big muscle groups. 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:46.159 It takes blood away from the surface of the skin so you can get a cold sweat. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:50.720 Your hair might stand on end, you might get a bit of a sort of a dry mouth as well. 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:57.120 Your digestive system's offline because that's not important if you're about to try to survive a physical threat. 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:00.000 Um, your heart starts to beat faster. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:05.840 And people out there thinking, I recognize this, it's just this is me in moments of panic, and it is panic. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:14.080 So the physiological state of the body is changing because of a perceived threat that your body's treating as a physical threat. 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:20.639 So it's making you teed up to run the heck out of there to escape this threat. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:26.480 So all of these things are going on, but the cordazone adrenaline takes time to leave the system. 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:38.080 And as Steve said, prefrontal cortex, you know, the if you're under physical threat or under perceived physical threat in this case, you're not thinking about your pension plan, you're thinking about how the hell I get out of here. 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:49.440 So prefrontal complex thinking, or even the appetite for complex thinking is offline, um, as your body is, you know, just trying trying to deal with threat. 00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:57.919 And of course, we hear that uh it can be it can be a faint, it can be a freeze, you know, get the hell out of there. 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:03.759 There are various aspects of how we could look at threat in terms of our reaction. 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:13.519 And I and I've seen,

as stated on podcasts before, I've seen somebody freeze, absolute, you know, Rigor Mortis freeze because the threat was so overwhelming. 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.720 So it is um it is difficult. 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:21.120 And Steve mentioned briefly about um the use of breath. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:31.840 We must also understand there's a huge amount of research, and I think um the author mentioned it in his book too, about the fact that the amygdala can be shrunk, but it also can grow. 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:36.720 So the more perceived threat we're under and we're not managing, the amygdala can actually get bigger. 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:39.200 So it actually becomes even more of a problem. 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:57.919 Um, using stress management processes, like particularly mindfulness, that's been shown to reduce the size of the amygdala, which means when you come under perceived threat, your response to it is much more managed because the amygdala and its processes has become a little bit more controlled. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:15.679 So there are ways to look at this, but of course, if you start thinking I'm I'm gonna get not bothered and I'm gonna carry on just as I am, you know, reacting to threat in this way, where adrenaline and cortisol is gets flooding the system. 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:21.519 I give you a clue your sleep's gonna be pretty bad as well, because the cortisol and adrenaline just doesn't help sleep. 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:28.799 So you wake up the next day, you come to the market, you've got a compromise mindset, it all kicks off, and you're already on the back foot. 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:35.440 Over time, this creates um huge anxiety, it can create depression and recurring depression. 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:43.679 And Steve and I will tell you that, and quite a few people that we've coached, we've seen that show up where people have shared that with us. 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:55.600 That you know, this becomes, as we call it, a bit of a doom loop, but it's a mental doom loop that we get stuck in because of the chemical side of our reaction to trauma that's in our body. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.799 So, yeah, there's a little bit of an introduction from me. 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:01.279 It's yeah, trauma can take its shape. 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:08.559 You can have small trauma, you can have big traumas, but if you're not careful, it can turn you into the green-eyed monster. 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:12.720 And you look back and you just think, What the hell was I doing? 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:13.759 Why did I do that? 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.799 Why did I say that? 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:24.080 If you're in a big corporate environment and it all kicks off and you've got the wrong version of you showing up, you might well have conversations that get you into even more deep water. 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:30.240 Um, so um, yeah, it's dangerous on many fronts, unmanaged, it's lethal. 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:37.039 But I

talked about the symptoms, and many people will think, yeah, that's yeah, I I recognize that. 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:39.360 Brilliant, brilliant. 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:40.080 Thank you, Mark. 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:47.120 And you know that you you mentioned something about the physical threat, and people might be going, thinking, well, you know what, I'm I'm not in the jungle anymore. 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:57.519 There's no tigers in the bushes, there's no snakes under my seat, um, there's no deadly spiders uh waiting to come out of the woodwork here at home. 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:06.320 Um, but you know what, it it this this often means uh an identity threat as much as a physical threat. 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:14.000 Um, but I will come back to that because I think we're gonna talk about a point a little bit later on which talks about this identity threat. 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:20.320 Um, but it means as much to our our um our psychological system as a physical threat. 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:37.519 Um the second point in the book, okay, which I wanted to draw, and this is why this book is so profound, is that he argues that the body knows before you do. 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:38.480 Okay. 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:44.240 And by you, I'm talking about you know, your mind for you, your conscious you. 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:45.360 Okay. 00:14:46.080 --> 00:15:00.000 Um his argument is that and it draws on the work of a um a well-known scientist called Stephen Porges, who came up with something called the polyvagal theory. 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:06.799 Um and there's there's an old psychologist joke, which is what goes on in the vagus nerve stays in the vagus nerve. 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:16.240 And the vagus nerve is um a major part of your uh nervous system which connects your your your brain to your stomach. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.279 And people often call the stomach the second brain. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:32.000 Um and I I think it's found to have more um more more nerves in it um related to to thought than most mammals, about the same as a cat. 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:38.320 Um so uh and you know, when we talk about getting butterflies in our stomach, that is why. 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:46.879 Um how we feel, you know, and and and and and and the words about the stomach come out in our coach, in our trading, you know, gut instinct. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.200 You just think of the very term we use. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.200 Traders who trade from the gut. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:58.799 You know, the the the stomach feels things often before we're conscious in the brain about them, as we do in other parts of the body. 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:09.039 I mean, if you were to ever do a body scan, which is a great technique used in certain um psycho uh psychotherapy fields and also within mindfulness, the work of mindfulness. 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:18.240 Um, you know, I I I've done that where I feel an awkwardness in a different part of my body, maybe in my chest, maybe in my arms, maybe the top of my legs. 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:25.600 We've all felt the hairs on the back of our neck stand out at various times, or a pain in our neck. 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:26.240 Okay. 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:45.279 Um and and and the idea between this the polyvagal theory, uh, as Van Van der Koek describes it, um, and the concept of neurosception is that the nervous system is constantly unconsciously scanning for danger. 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:50.399 And it's doing that, and it's happening faster and earlier than conscious thought. 00:16:51.519 --> 00:17:05.519 Okay, so when you think about the tight chest before a trade, you ought to check the position for a tenth time, the shallow breath before hitting send, that's not noise, but that's neurosection firing before the conscious mind is caught up. 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:15.920 Um this is the what if moment where FOMO and fear of regret causes us to do something that the conscious rational mind has planned for us. 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.200 Okay. 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:25.279 And this is this is real, this is happening. 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:31.519 This is why it's impossible to trade unemotionally. 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.599 We try as much as we do, we do. 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:39.839 In fact, you know, I I have uh a kind of issue with with much of the trading industry out there. 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:49.279 Uh and you know, I've been around the block many times on this 25 years as a trader, um, 15 years as a coach working with traders. 00:17:49.519 --> 00:18:05.279 And and you know, one of the mistakes I I used to try and make, and my colleagues all try to make, is to think we could trade without emotions, you know, and I see this in lots of trading academies and courses where they're trying to teach people to trade without emotions. 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:11.519 Okay, even some of the big hedge fund academies try and do this, try and create an emotional decision making. 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:18.079 But you know, in the real world, not in the laboratory, you know, unless you're a robot, these two aims are impossible. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:18.960 Okay. 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:33.839 Um and that's why, you know, we're wired this way through our we we we operate through our central nervous system, which has evolved over millions of years, as Mark said, you know, the amagdala 200 million years old or something. 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:34.720 Okay. 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:39.200 Um so the feelings we have they occur before thoughts. 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:49.440 You know, so unless you plan to miraculously flip millions of years of evolutionary hardware, you have to accept that right reality and start from there. 00:18:49.599 --> 00:19:00.480 And I meet some incredible traders who have come to terms with their emotions, factor it into their process, and actually have become much better traders. 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:07.200 So I'm gonna throw

this now over to you, Mark, about uh you know how the body knows before you do. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:08.640 Yeah, it is interesting. 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:09.759 The speed, the speed of reaction. 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:17.839 One of the things that I thought about was that if if you pick up something that's hot, your response to it is quicker than thought. 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:18.400 Yeah. 00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:22.480 Something in your system telling you to drop it. 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:28.720 It's an immediate reaction that is milli, milli, milliseconds. 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.000 And if you had to think about it, you'd you'd you'd burn yourself. 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:39.359 But there's something in our system that reacts quicker than thought because you know, new neurons are everywhere. 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:46.079 But in terms of also how we um it engage with and this drifts into presence a little bit, you know. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:20:10.240 We we often talk about presence and what is presence, it's it's guess being uh aware of the um what we consciously see, but also understanding there's another layer that's below consciousness that we're also picking up signals from, and it's understanding those signals and translating them into you know actually doing something. 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:29.359 And I know that uh we've had some people that uh that we've coached that reflect upon being in a flow state where things just but where time sort of slows down, things become easy because they seem to have an intuition about what's going on uh that they can't really put their finger on. 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:56.720 And I think that perhaps is some of the answer that there are times when you can't really explain why you had that thought or feeling, but accepting that uh and being tuned in to those feelings turn up, and those two those feelings mean something, and if you tune in at the right way, right level, they may well help the way that you're you know and analyzing markets. 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:02.000 Um, and of course, it may be that you're in your peripheral vision you're picking up signals. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:23.200 You know, we often focus so much on on perhaps in trading the bid and offer in the depth, but you know, it's what's going on in your peripheral vision or what you're hearing from a trading wind point of view in terms of uh a peripheral sort of piece of noise showing that the interest rate desk has just got busy and you're trading foreign exchange, and that might be relevant. 00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:31.039 Awareness and uh presence becomes part of this because these signals have to come from somewhere. 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:42.400 Um, you know, you and all of your senses are permanently tuned in to kind of figuring out what what's going on, particularly around potential threats, but they're listening to everything. 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:44.960 And it's you trying to decipher that. 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:53.599 So even recognizing the fact that this is going on is important because it allows you to think okay, there's something else I guess need to be potentially aware of. 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:59.599 And oh, yeah, I did I do get those feelings every now and then that I can almost predict what's about to. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.400 Happen next in a way that happens next. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.599 And I then think, well, why didn't I do anything about it? 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:12.000 You must have had it. 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:13.119 You must have had time for anything. 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.319 I I did as a trainer. 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:15.359 I did. 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:16.000 It didn't. 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.960 It felt like magic. 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:25.200 If I talk about that in my book, and uh it feels just like instinct almost or intuition, the word you you mentioned about a minute ago. 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.799 Another word we don't even know yet. 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:27.200 Yeah, isn't it? 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:31.359 We go from instinct to intuition, they're they're kind of so connected. 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:44.400 Um and I always like to think of you know, I read something about the um the way uh a baseball player or a cricketer um reacts to uh the delivery of the ball from the bowler or pitcher. 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:46.079 Yeah, 100 mile an hour ball. 00:22:46.319 --> 00:23:02.960 Well, they've actually they've actually you know, scientists have actually assessed this, and they said to adjust and adapt to the ball leaving the hand requires a response time of something like 400 milliseconds or less, which is faster than conscious conscious neural processing. 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:15.200 Okay, so so what they've found that elite batters do um is they bypass slow deliberate thought by using advanced predictive coding in their brain. 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.920 Um and and and and they have a fine-tuned sort of visuamotor coupling. 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:31.039 Okay, so in other words, what they're doing is they're they've learned to take cues from what's happening just before it happens. 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:42.079 Yeah, they're already shaping up to play the shot before the ball has left the bowler's hand because um you haven't got time to make a decision after that. 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:48.319 Okay, so they're they're anticipating the trajectory of the bodily clue cues, right? 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.960 And how maybe that's going to bounce on the pitch. 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:59.200 And all that's being done in real time, okay, by the human brain, by people who have seen these patterns over. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:00.720 That's why practice works. 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:07.200 And they're not thinking I think Simon Mundy mentioned it in one of his podcasts when he was on with us that uh it's action without thought. 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.079 So you're not, you've not had to they've not had to think

about that. 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.799 Yeah, they're not to think, oh, what am I about to do? 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:14.160 Because I'm noticing this. 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:14.640 Yeah. 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:20.160 Well, in cricket they've noticed that they're already working it out without them having to say, yeah, can you work this out? 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:26.640 There's there's looking ahead in cricket, they say that elite batters project their gaze to where they predict the ball will arrive. 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.200 Yeah. 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:27.759 Okay. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.559 Um, rather than chasing the ball reactively. 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:38.079 I mean, that's the mathematics behind that is hugely complicated, but it gives you a sense as to how complex our brain is. 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:38.559 Yeah. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:45.359 And what it's what it can do if we give it the opportunity to do it, and we can tune into that. 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.200 And there's a lot of interesting stuff there. 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:59.440 So professional players manage to stabilize their head orientation to minimize the visual purr, which then allows the eye moments to process the crank, you know, the final critical microsessors. 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:06.160 All this is done by passing the the the pre-frontal cortex, which actually works quite slowly. 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.079 And the same thing happens in trading. 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:18.480 I know incredible traders who are so reactive, okay, and they kind of see the setup happening, but they couldn't even describe it. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:20.000 No, you know. 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:29.920 Uh uh, I always remember working with a guy at a bank about 10, 12 years ago, phenomenal day trader, FX day trader, okay. 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:39.599 And he was just in out the market all day long, okay, just watching the numbers on the screen, not even the charts, just watching the numbers. 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:45.359 You know, he'd have some client trades going through his books, which added a bit of extra context and insight. 00:25:45.920 --> 00:26:00.960 Um, and he knew where he wanted to be ultimately positioned, but he would just then use, you know, it was the noise of everything happening around him, people saying stuff, seeing the behavior of markets that would just give him the cue to just execute without thinking. 00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:02.480 And it it was phenomenal. 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:04.960 And he he was the most successful trader within the business. 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:07.039 And I guess there was trust there, wasn't it? 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:08.400 He trusted himself at that time. 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:12.640 We got to the point after a while of really trusting that process. 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:19.039 Um so so you know that that the entire process was trusting it. 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.359 And I see this for phenomenal traders today. 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:35.200 Okay, it's it's you don't have to be a day trader to happen, but you can see stuff happening that's giving you clues before it happens that gives you a chance to just you know adjust yourself. 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:48.400 Um you know, a lot of the best traders, you know, we go back to Amrit in in the the the Unknown Market Wizards, um, who I worked with and um I I spoke about in my book. 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.680 And you know, sorry for the little plug there, guys, can't help it. 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.440 Mastering the mental gamma trading. 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:54.559 It's a habit, it's a habit. 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:55.359 Don't worry about it. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.240 Um you know, he that was him. 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:06.559 That the work he did off floor was ridiculous to prepare. 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:08.160 Well, he was deep now, wasn't he? 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:09.119 He he was the deep now. 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:09.920 Deep now. 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:16.240 So when he was on the floor, it was just all in the moment, all the reaction, but he prepared for those reactions. 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:23.680 And they may not they may not happen, but if they happened, he was ready for them and he knew what he wanted to do, and then he would adjust it. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:31.200 And and so it was it was intuitive, it was gut feel, it was instinct, but it was also all that meets preparation and planning. 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:41.039 So, you know, to see that that that's where we can see this sort of working together as as a beautiful coordination. 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:47.200 Um moving on to the the third uh takeaway. 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.559 So really the the second takeaway from that, by the way. 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.160 In fact, there's two takeaways. 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.240 We never talked about a takeaway for the first one. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:59.200 The takeaway is build the rules and processes before you're in a threat state, not during it. 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:00.160 Okay. 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:10.079 Um be pre-committed mechanical triggers exist prior precisely because you cannot reliably reason your way through a live drawdown. 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.160 That's why we have stops, okay. 00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:16.240 If you use a stop method, not every method uses a stop, by the way. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:20.319 And I know some people think that's crazy, but that's probably because you don't use that method. 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:28.400 Um, but the second trait takeaway we've got from the body knows before you do is treat physical sensation as data. 00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:34.880 Okay, a quick body scan before entering a trade, um, calm or activated. 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:40.079 It's a legitimate risk management input, not a soft optional add-on. 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:48.400 And this is what the best traders are doing, whether they've done it by design or

it's just an evolutionary evolution of their own trading process. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.519 That's what they're doing. 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:54.480 Yeah, it's fit it's filling mindfulness as part of your process because it's a mindful activity. 00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.200 Yeah. 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.640 So it's the what's the way it's a weapon. 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:01.359 I mean, if if you if you look at it, it's an absolute weapon. 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.400 A lethal weapon, not just a weapon, yeah. 00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:05.359 A lethal weapon. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:06.160 It's you know, for some people. 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:13.200 Is doing it because it enhances is pro-tuition a word. 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:21.519 What's what's the slightly forward thinking version of intuition where you're slightly forward of current point in time? 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.160 Is it pro-tuition or proception? 00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:24.960 You know what? 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:36.559 I've never heard of pro-tuition, but what you've got me doing is going on to Claude right now, our best mate, yeah, who's with us on this call, uh, and asked, Is pro-intuition a word? 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.599 And he said, He said, Isn't a word I recognize? 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:42.960 Did you mean prostitution? 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:59.680 Yeah, probably or protrusion or I think there is a word where your where your level of intuition is slightly ahead of you, or slightly ahead of what you see as real time, because we process with a lag. 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:06.160 And anything that can reduce that lag and get you closer to real real time, I think gives you a chance. 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.039 And I'm trying to work out what this all about is all about. 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:10.799 Um, anyway, so I think there is a word. 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.400 We'll work out what the word is in the show. 00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.680 There's a whole series of words that Claude's come up with. 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:16.240 Okay. 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:20.319 Um, prescience, foreknowledge or foresight, sensing what's coming before. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:21.759 Prescience, yeah, prescience. 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:22.160 That's it. 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:23.039 That's I like that one. 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:30.079 So, you know, if you meant sensing things before they happen, it's a prescience is the word. 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:39.759 So, yeah, we'd like to mention, we'd like to, by the way, introduce our listeners to Claude, a new member of the team, um, who's doing this completely uh with his best mate, Gemini Pro. 00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:41.519 Voluntarily. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:42.480 Okay. 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:50.480 Um, so let should we move on to the third, um, yeah, third of these uh the these points from the book? 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:57.359 Um, and it it it really comes under the sentence one bad hit can fragment the whole story. 00:30:57.680 -->

00:31:00.799 Okay, it it's what I call the identity hit. 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:15.279 Um, and Van der Koopt discusses how trauma can fragment a person's coherent sense of self, leaving parts of them still reacting as though danger is present long after the event has passed. 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:26.880 Um effectively, here what he's saying, and and you know, this is where I come back to, you know, you were talking about the amygdala responding to a physical threat, okay. 00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:44.640 But the the the the idea here is that as beings, we've moved on from the basic uh reptiles of 200 million years ago and the proto-mammals and the the early low um uh low class of mammals to a much more thinking mammal, okay. 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:49.680 Um and the higher level mammals, you know, they start to have this, okay. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:55.680 And um, you know, they start to have an identity, and and that's because they're social animals. 00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:59.680 That you know, we are social beings, we rely on others to get by. 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:09.119 If we if we didn't, we'd we'd fade away if we're cast out of the group or the um the the clan, the society, the tribe. 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.799 You know, we can't function. 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.920 Okay, it's a death sentence effectively in the natural world. 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:25.359 Okay, it's why loneliness is hurt so much because we're primed not to be lonely and we'll adjust our behaviors to make sure we we we retain the um approval of the clan. 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:35.440 It's why we need the approval of others, it's why we need contact is essentially one of the most human um uh um elements that parts of being human. 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:39.039 So so loss of identity, okay. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:51.680 The identity here is us fearing, okay, that others are going to disapprove of us and we're gonna become isolated and thrown out, and we lose our sense of self at that moment. 00:32:51.839 --> 00:33:03.519 So people aren't processing money loss, okay, because the brain doesn't know what money is, not not the ancient, even the modern brain, you know, money's a recent invention, okay. 00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:04.640 It means something. 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.480 What money is is it means something, it has a meaning, okay. 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:18.000 What people are really processing is the hit to their identity, their self-esteem, their sense of self-worth, their sense of self-value of who they are. 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:18.480 Okay. 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:22.240 If they can't like themselves, how can other people like themselves? 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:35.920 Okay, so in trading, a single catastrophic loss, um, even within a sound process, even within the parameters of what's bearable, can really fragment a trader's trust in themselves. 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:40.160 Um, and that doesn't go away because that's the trauma hit. 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.319 Okay, it stays in the body. 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.640 Okay, so they then become braced. 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:51.759 You you mark, Mark, if you could see me, I'm tightening my grip here on myself, my body, my arms are coming in, being held tight. 00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:55.359 We tighten up and we're braced for the next blow-up. 00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:00.960 We, you know, we we start looking around looking for it, okay, and we start sabotaging our process. 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:08.559 We sabotage good trades, we won't take them, or we'll we'll we'll quickly take a profit, or we'll cut a loss even too quickly, okay? 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:12.960 Um, because merely it might have some echo of the one that hurt. 00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:13.679 That's all. 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.960 And what we we can often I use the term catastrophizing when I'm working with clients. 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:30.800 You know, people expect something to go wrong, and then this attitude manifests in their trading, and the very failure they consciously want to avoid, they're actually creating. 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:35.119 Yeah, this reminds me of we talked about Federer in the past, didn't we? 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:59.119 The sort of the ability to take a hit, to reset, recover, and guess get back in the game, um, and having a process around that, but also a process of preconditioning so that hits don't scar, you know, and I think that um we we see a lot of scars from the people that we talk to, uh, scars that are difficult to forget. 00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:19.440 And I think if if you have a scar, if you have a wound that is poorly um managed, as it were, you know, you you can you can have a wound on your leg, and I've got one from about 1968 where I cut my leg with a standing knife trying to trying to cut a piece of wood that I'm looking at now in this hot climate that we now exist in. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.760 Um, and that's a reminder of what I did back then. 00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:27.280 Um and and scars remind us. 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:40.400 But if if if I'm sure if if that wound back in 1968 was was, you know, just more carefully attended to, it would it would not have it would not have been a scar decades later. 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:47.840 So I think how we manage being wounded, um, and whether it leaves a residual scar on us is important. 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:57.519 Um, if we carry out some of the processes we mentioned today, then we can cope with a hit, as it were, and it then it doesn't scar us. 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:05.679 And I guess you know, the uh part of the book title, what's it the body has the score? 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.079 I think unmanaged, you know, you're gonna you're gonna be super scarred. 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:16.880 Um managed, you're gonna ex you know you're gonna manage through a a hit. 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:31.199 And going back to the Federa thing where you kind of move on and and you've forgotten

about it, as it were, and it doesn't scar you, but you've you've had a recovery, you have a recovery plan to that hit. 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:38.639 And so the ability to recover from a hit also requires you to be in the right mental state to have that process. 00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:48.000 Now, if you're falling apart at the seams and um you know stress is the predominant mix, and of course, we've we've we've we've talked about well, what does that translate? 00:36:48.159 --> 00:37:00.559 That translates into fight or flight or freeze or faint and all that chemical stuff going on, you know, with 10% less IQ and prefrontal cortex offline, you're not going to be able to work out your recovery plan anyway. 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.679 So it kind of gets worse. 00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:12.320 So it's almost like you need to start off with these processes to be able to manage the amygdala hijack, to be able to manage the threat response that turns up chemically. 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:23.920 For you to deal with a hit to know in confidence that you've got a structure that guess goes, okay, I've got a process, I've left that behind, it's not scarred me, and I'm back in the game. 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.519 Because that's what Fedra does. 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:30.239 He's doing that up until the point of now being partly retired. 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:36.559 You know, he's he was historically known to guess have this ability to guess move through. 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:38.800 I think in the early teenage years he didn't have it. 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:47.360 So it he acquired he acquired it into being such a managed state where if he had a hit, he recovered, he moved on. 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:56.559 And we talk about that in in our work, you know, you you how you your relationship to a trauma is important. 00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.760 You know, what do you have a process around it? 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:04.320 And is it is it a trauma that doesn't leave a scar because you've got a good process? 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:09.519 Or are you fighting with the fact that you're constantly scarring yourself? 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:16.960 And those scars are reminders to that event that takes you back in time to rewurry it and rethink it and refill it. 00:38:17.199 --> 00:38:30.800 Um, because scars are you know that you don't want to be a trader with lots of scars, you want to be a trader that's that's on top of these wounds so that they don't become lasting wounds. 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.360 And do you know what it's not always easy to identify these wounds to see where they come from? 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.280 I mean, we we have them throughout our life growing up, they shape us and make us, isn't it? 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:42.239 I mean, yeah, you need to go through the experience of it. 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.719 That's why some of people sort of come into trading without the experience. 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:52.800 Well, you kind of you need to go through several cycles of this to kind of work it out. 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:54.639 Otherwise, it just makes no sense. 00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:03.840 Yeah, I I do tell people who come to to me for coaching that haven't had, you know, minimum two to three years in the market, you know, often often a bit longer. 00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:10.960 Because I mean, first of all, I think before you start working with a coach and dealing with with this stuff, you have to learn the foundations, the technical stuff. 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:17.280 But then you need to have had the hits, the bruises, that you've got to bear some scars, and then we've got something to start talking about. 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:17.679 Yeah. 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:18.159 Okay. 00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:21.440 And you'll be trying to learn how to adjust and adapt to that. 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:45.920 Um, and I do have certain clients who I've worked with for years who will come after they've hit a big speed bump and we'll try and unpick their trading back to the point where this started to happen, and then we'll try and unpick what that particular instant was and what the score was, and you know, and then how that's manifesting in what they're doing now, and you know, and how that shapes their current. 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:51.679 And actually going through that then frees them and lifts them out of it, and they suddenly start making money again. 00:39:51.840 --> 00:40:05.039 Um, and it, you know, you can find people who don't normally have fear in their trading who can suddenly become very fearful for what appears no reason for them, but once we can link it back to something, they can often move on it. 00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.960 So so again, you know, this this one bad hit can fragment the whole story. 00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.079 I think it is important, it's important to recognise the fact that we're not all perfect. 00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:16.000 Well, I don't think any of us are perfect. 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.320 So, no, no, no, you're the exception there, Mark. 00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:22.480 I'm gonna pass up you you're the exception, but I think most of us aren't perfect. 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:27.119 Don't beat yourself up if you suddenly get a hit that you don't deal with appropriately. 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:28.800 That's normal, that's normal. 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.000 That that that is life. 00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:35.039 You say in Djokovic where you whack it, you whack your racket against the net and all sorts of chaos. 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:49.039 And he's got the most uh mindfulness strategy of of many people, but you know, sort of have yourself a bit of room that occasionally you might need to guess think, okay, except I guess need to relearn that process. 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.480 So yeah, we're not all perfect, and don't give yourself up. 00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:56.800 It's not just humanity, we're dealing with uncertainty as well.

00:40:57.039 --> 00:41:00.880 So, you know, to expect us to be able to solve an impossible answer. 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:05.519 Why I see her talking about it and saying you've got to and have to, you must do this. 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:20.480 Yeah, we know that uh life can um throw things that that do get you down, but um it's it what we've talked about today hopeful hopefully gives some structure around well how how perhaps I can prepare for it and deal with it better. 00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:21.760 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:28.880 So so as a takeaway from that that third one, the the identity hit and one bad hit can fragment the whole story. 00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:39.679 You know, there's no easy answer to these, but you know, you you want to be trying to separate that specific bad trade from the whole process, which is as I said, this is what some of my clients would do. 00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:56.000 They'll come and talk about it and try and get close to what it is, name precisely what went wrong rather than letting one loss quietly rewrite the entire story so that you end up going, I can't trust myself anymore, or I can't trust myself with risk. 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:58.559 Um, so that's that takeaway on the third one. 00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.320 Now the fourth one. 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:04.239 Um talking about it is not enough on its own. 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:10.079 This this is what Van this is what Van der Koopt's kind of central clinical argument is. 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:24.000 The the top-down approaches, such as talk the therapy, understanding your story through an intellectual lens, um they're helpful, they're often necessary, but alone they're not sufficient. 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:36.559 Real change also needs bottom-up work, approaches that engage how we're feeling, how our body's reacting, how our nervous system is working, okay. 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:41.440 And and and this is where the mind and body work is done, okay. 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:48.400 Um you know, the coaching, the grounding of self, the breath work, you know, this really starts to make a difference. 00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:55.039 I'm gonna hand over to you um very quickly, Mark, um in a second. 00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:02.639 But first I want to talk about because we haven't really spoken about this, the uh the golf open recently, the British Open, won by Ryan Fox. 00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:10.559 Um fast that even the TV cameras couldn't catch up with his winning shot and missed the start of his final part. 00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:12.960 It was incredible to see. 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:24.000 Um, but he he talks, he talked afterwards about the breath work he's done, and between shots, just walking to the next shot and counting his breath. 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:26.559 Yeah, so he silences the mind. 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:29.039 Well, I can I well I can add to that. 00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:47.760 So early 80s, um, I got invited on a Network golf day, and there was this, and I was you know, early 20s, and there was this I don't know, he must it must have been 60, but he might have been 40, he could lose a sense of age, you know, when you're that age. 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:50.559 And um, he was a fantastic golfer. 00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:55.920 And in between shots, he was bird watching. 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:57.119 I mean, it was just ridiculous. 00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.679 He had a bit of binoculars track to his bag, and he so he played. 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:10.639 Golf shot, and where most golfers you know were sort of thinking about their next shot, he was bird watching, and it's remarkable there's a woodpecker up in that trail with 18 miles of birdwatching. 00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:23.119 But you could kind of work it out in the end that he was not thinking about golf at all, and he was using tuning into his senses, and I think you know it's kind of a relaxing thing, observing. 00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:30.400 You tend to calm yourself down by observing and paying attention and listening to sounds and you know try trying to be curious. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:40.880 It's all part of you know a mindful walk in a way, and it wasn't about breath, although his breath would have been slower, his heart rate would have been slower because he was involved in that type of practice. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:46.400 And he turned up to his next shot as fresh as a daisy and didn't do a practice stroke. 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.039 And I think it was a four handicap or something. 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:50.639 It was just ridiculous. 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:54.719 So it was much in the way that you've mentioned here. 00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:02.559 It's the what you do in between the action was was really, really important. 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:14.559 Um, you know, I thought I was smart enough at the time to notice that because I was already on my own journey all those decades ago that was emerging as to my methodology of managing me. 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:21.519 But you could tell it's the action was one thing, but it was the action was defined by what you did before the action. 00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:35.360 And in golf, as you mentioned about Ryan, it was counting the breath, and that of course would have made presence, it was reducing heart rate, it was calming the system and giving him mental energy to just turn up and do what he did. 00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:36.400 Phenomenal, wasn't he? 00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:39.920 Even on the what was he, world top 50, world top 70? 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:45.280 Um, but it was great that you mentioned that, and I don't think he's unusual. 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:59.360 It's great that you talked about it, and I think that if you talk to many of these top performers, they will all mention something around breath work, something around how they breathe, when they breathe, how they use the breath to guess. 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.679 We knew it was a huge thing for

Federer, wasn't it? 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:02.320 Massive. 00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:08.960 And I think, yeah, Djokovic and I think high performers, you know, elite performers. 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.000 I think is it um Taylor Swift? 00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:13.920 And you know, they they do a lot of this stuff. 00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:21.440 Well, but I mean England World Cup team had uh meditation system, Williams, all the F1 teams, yeah. 00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:27.280 Uh absolutely all the drivers I'm you know, Nico Rosberg's commented, I'll say again on my LinkedIn post, Mr. 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:28.800 Nico Roseberg. 00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.519 Um great advice, Mark Randall. 00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:34.000 Um, but so yeah, he's all over it. 00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:46.559 All of these people are all over this stuff that unfortunately a lot of blokes, I say blokes in the world of trading, kind of laugh at thinking, oh that's a bit girly, that's a bit about emotional intelligence. 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.480 Oh, I won't, I won't really, you know, do I really want to be seen to be doing that? 00:46:50.559 --> 00:47:06.480 But wake up, you know, wake up the world's greatest performers bit in what are they doing in terms of performance, are doing this stuff for a reason, and they're doing it because they can be slightly ahead of themselves in terms of presence. 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:18.480 They're dealing with disappointment and moving on from it rapidly, and they realize that disappointment's gonna come, and the things that traders can learn from that by embracing that philosophy. 00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:21.599 I mean, it can change your game, it can change your PL. 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:31.599 Yeah, and it this this is, you know, I you know, I always talk about the importance of doing, you know, the physical and the practical work to make yourself better. 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:33.679 Journaling is one of the best, okay. 00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:37.920 Um, maybe do some post-mortem analysis in the planning and preparation. 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:44.480 Um, you know, uh a lot of people now are using AI reflective coaching um to help them. 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:49.199 They're talking things out and seeing what patterns are coming back from their AI machines. 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:53.199 Um, these are really helpful, but that they're also limited, they're outside in. 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.760 We have to understand that there is only so much you can do. 00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:00.719 This is the mirror, and you look in the mirror alone doesn't resolve things, okay? 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.119 You know, there's my reflection now what? 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:09.119 Okay, useful, but they don't necessarily switch off a body that's still floods with adrenaline. 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:18.800 No, it's it's very interesting you say that because what what they're not doing, they're not listening to the tone of what you've just asked. 00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:35.119 It's not looking at your body language in response to things as you go about you know the conversation, the dialogue, which of course, in a real you know physical coach is uh you know a paying attention to response as well. 00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:39.280 And of course, AI doesn't do that, it's chucking out some some some logic. 00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:44.079 And I've done the same thing, and some of it's led down rabbit holes that are difficult to get out of, right? 00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.400 And you think, where's it going with this conversation? 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:48.159 This you know, I'm gonna end this. 00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:52.880 Um, and so it's it's not going into your soul. 00:48:53.280 --> 00:49:06.559 No, no, it doesn't understand you and your response, and or that you've just raised an eyebrow to a comment where you think, okay, he's not, you know, that that's not landing well, or he's questioning that. 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:08.800 Um AI can't do that. 00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:25.519 Uh I'm sure to go down the line there by all sorts of things that it can do, but it's not it's it's not able to get into your soul and to monitor in real time your response to certain things as it as it communicates with you. 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.800 It's what I call the limits of intellectuality, okay? 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:36.320 You know, we can only talk out so much, we can only reflect so much, we can only look at our reflection so long. 00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:38.559 That's only the tip of the iceberg. 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:39.519 Yeah, it's useful. 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:45.599 To use a metaphor, it's useful, it's it's essential, but it has to, you know, it works best with something else. 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:48.800 So, you know, breath work's an example of doing something for the body. 00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:51.119 Mindfulness, that's stuff you can do yourself. 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:52.800 Okay, it steals the mind. 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:55.840 Okay, the deliberate reset, okay. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:01.679 So physical routines before, during, and after big sessions are held. 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:19.360 You know, they they add something, you know, but trying to improve say basic somatic awareness, bodily awareness, which is what coaching does a lot of, you know, making people conscious of all these in, you know, what's going on within them, what's going on around, how these are coming together um to impact your trading. 00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:32.320 Well, you say it's gonna center, I think it's gonna button there because I was coaching somebody the other day who I then refused to coach for the rest of the session because I said, You're exhausted, you're just looking exhausted. 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:38.239 Yeah, whatever conversation we're gonna have, you're gonna give me the wrong response because you look a bit stressed. 00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.480 And as a coach, you can make that cool, right? 00:50:42.559 -->

00:50:53.280 You yeah, it might somebody might be interacting with AI at the wrong time because they're suffering or they've got trauma, and so they're a little bit vulnerable. 00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:09.519 And AI is not gonna give a monkeys of your state, but as coaches, we're looking at that and we're thinking there are moments we think, actually, let's let's stop this conversation now because you know I think AI coaching has been a brilliant addition for people. 00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:16.639 Um, and I encourage my clients to do it, but also to put a limit on it as well, to understand its limitations. 00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:36.400 In fact, one of my clients he he downloads our conversations, the scripted them into his AI machine, he downloads his trading performance, his reflections on his trading, and then he he asks it to identify patterns, what it's noticing, you know, to sort of you know what he needs to be aware of. 00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:42.559 Um, and then he he says, you know, what's a good thing for me to take to Steve for our next conversation after a while. 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:43.920 You charge him for that. 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:44.719 Yeah. 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:57.119 But the funniest one was he turned around to me one day and he said, I was putting all this into AI, I was stuck, it was things weren't working out, and eventually I went, it was Claude just went, Oh Steve. 00:51:57.360 --> 00:52:00.559 Perhaps you should call Steve, set up a session. 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:04.400 And I was like, Yeah, recommended by Claude. 00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:10.639 Um so anyway, this brings us to the, you know, that that's the takeaway, really. 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:17.599 You know, it's it it goes beyond that, it goes beyond intellectualizing, it goes beyond the mind and into the body. 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:23.599 Okay, do that work and examine that work and explore that work because that's the hardest stuff to understand. 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:28.400 Okay, which brings us to the final, the fifth takeaway, okay. 00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.679 Um, and I think you're really gonna like this one, Mark. 00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:38.320 Okay, it's safety in relationship is what lets the system recalibrate. 00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:39.119 Okay. 00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:42.960 We are people, we are human, we are social beings. 00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:50.079 That's probably the the core essence of being human is connection to other people. 00:52:50.639 --> 00:53:04.079 Okay, one of the most uh quoted lines in the book is is being able to feel safe with other people is probably the single most important aspect of mental health. 00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:17.840 Okay, co-regulation, the feeling sense in the presence of calm, attuned persons is often what allows a diseulated nervous system to reset more than any technique practiced alone. 00:53:18.079 --> 00:53:35.519 And I'm gonna take this a step further, okay, because a few years ago um I did a course on uh

sort of particular philosophy that I follow in my coaching and my the field of psychology that I'm into is called gestell psychology. 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:43.760 Um and there was this course being run on gestell and trauma, um, a series of trauma workshops. 00:53:44.880 --> 00:54:01.039 And one of the things that really stood out to me from it is was and then they were talking about the trauma of addiction, like mainly people who've been through various addictions, drink drugs, alcohol, sex, and sugar, and many other sort of addictions. 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:15.119 And uh what they were arguing was the the the cigarette or the alcohol itself wasn't the addiction, it grew out of the connection. 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:29.039 These people started being in places where they were connected safely to other people, they were no longer judged, okay, they were no longer it wasn't a painful experience, it was a pleasant experience. 00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:48.480 So they were saying, you know, these people who often were had gone into drugs at an early age, or if you look at where people become impressionable and start smoking, it's as we're becoming young adults where we need companionship, where we need to be approved by our peers and accepted, and you fall into a crowd that accepts you. 00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:51.039 And what are some of the habits of that crowd? 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.000 Smoking. 00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:54.559 That's what gets you accepted by the crowd. 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:57.199 Okay, you do it because other people are doing it. 00:54:57.519 --> 00:54:59.840 Drugs, it's what gets you accepted as a crowd. 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:14.960 And then the real hit actually comes from being accepted by the crowd, not from the drug itself, but uh we then associate the drug taking with a hit and we try to recreate that pleasure, and that's where the addiction starts. 00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:19.360 And that's a very simplistic explanation of it, possibly too simplistic. 00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:27.199 But I was fascinated by that, and it really helped me understand just how true connection is. 00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:40.800 And this comes back to the idea of trading, how we often go into ourselves and it becomes a really lonely we we get lost in our head, a really lonely experience, even when we're surrounded by others. 00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:44.880 Interesting. 00:55:45.440 --> 00:56:08.480 What's coming to my mind as you say that is perhaps it's sort of the early parental guidance of actually mix mixing with the right crowd, or not mixing with the wrong crowd, and how you can look at perhaps peers that have come from school and look at all their different directions, and you can see people that clearly mixed with the wrong crowd and the disasters that come with that. 00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:18.079 Um, but also um, you know, mixing with the right crowd and you know what what that uh gives us an opportunity. 00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.559 Sometimes we perhaps don't have a choice. 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:26.079 Um but if you look at the world of trading, you kind of do have a choice. 00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:36.800 So, you know, being in an appropriate community, um where there's professionals guiding it, um, listening to right podcasts. 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:45.039 I mean, listen to podcasts with people with experience talking about it because this is a kind of community as well, in a in a way. 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.280 Um and so we have a choice. 00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:56.239 I mean, that we know there's a lot of traders out there that are choosing the wrong type of people to learn from, that are listening to the wrong type of intuition. 00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:05.039 Um, and that sort of fits into you know, social media is not called social media for a reason, it's kind of part of your social sphere. 00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:13.920 Um, but going back to, and I guess you also sort of highlighted that bad habits can come from it. 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:21.199 Um, but I will remind you of that sound bite that uh I used at some of our big corporate presentations of this. 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:47.440 There was this corporate of like 200,000 people, and they they tried to analyse where the uh the the less stress was in their business, and it was the people that were smoking because they, without permission, stepped up, went for a break outside, had a social chat, had a smoke, you know, connected with people for normally non-business communication, then went back to their desk. 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:55.599 I know that obviously smoke smoking is is is hugely dangerous, but they, from a stress point of view, were the least stressed people. 00:57:56.079 --> 00:58:24.400 Um, and you mentioned about the fact that we do need to make sure we have that social connection um and make use of it because it's important that we um you know maintain our sense of self and maintain our sense of controlling our amygdala by you know, I think it enjoys the fact that we're sat in a social chat, it's reducing stress, it's making us a bit calmer, and then we go back to the fight. 00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:49.039 So, yeah, so social connectivity is super important, and you know, my my my warning would be for people just make sure you're in the right trader social group that you choose carefully what channel you listen to, you know, rat rather than believe in someone that's been in the market for five years talking about you know being experts in their field, give you a clue. 00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:51.440 I don't even think COVID was five years ago now, was it? 00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.400 It's now six years ago, the start of COVID. 00:58:54.639 --> 00:59:03.519 Um, you know, choose who you liaise with in your journey for you know building your trading experience and being guided. 00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:04.880 And often have a partner. 00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:06.960 I think that's why a lot of people come to

coaching. 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:17.199 You know, a lot of my clients I've worked with are, you know, interestingly, a lot of them are solo traders um come to me, and you know, some of them have been with me five, six, seven years now. 00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:35.679 Well, same with me, you guys think you just need this they appreciate the sounding board, they appreciate uh, I guess also an off-ramp, you know, for maybe someone to talk through a difficulty to let go of it appropriately. 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:40.639 I hear them saying it out loud, it changes everything, or even that someone's just listening to them. 00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:52.960 Yeah, well, a trader alone with their PL and in their own head is often the worst resource that being alone in your orders, the worst resource environment for recalibrating after a hit. 00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:56.000 The relief of having a discussion about it. 00:59:56.719 --> 00:59:57.360 I'm okay now. 00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:01.039 I've talked it through with whoever, you know, Steve with Mark. 01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:10.480 Um, and of course, that's almost an indirect service, isn't it, that we're that we're providing as part of the of that relationship. 01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:16.000 But it's not you alone against the world anymore, it's you and a supporter, yeah, someone with you on the journey. 01:00:16.079 --> 01:00:19.440 In fact, you often see this with high performers, you know. 01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:23.039 For the Beatles, the Beatles, it was Epstein's. 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:25.440 I just saw the Sinatra show a few weeks ago. 01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:27.119 It was George Evans, his promoter. 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:31.360 Yeah, and I was Billy Holiday was featured in that, and for her, it was Joe Glazer. 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:38.239 And a lot of these people kind of almost fall apart after they lose this support person because they're they're doing high-level performance. 01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:39.280 Okay. 01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:43.119 So, you know, this is so key. 01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:55.599 But you know, so so you know, real really, you know, this is the takeaway, and it's this is where you know, we I I know people feel we sometimes push coaching. 01:00:55.679 --> 01:01:00.159 We don't push coaching at all on these calls, but we try not to, we try not to sell ourselves. 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:05.920 But you know, we're big believers in this, obviously, because we see the impact it has to people. 01:01:06.159 --> 01:01:11.840 We've been through it ourselves, we've been coached, and uh we know the positive effect it has. 01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:16.960 Any any thoughts about that? 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:19.440 No, you've summed it up very, very well. 01:01:19.519 --> 01:01:22.480 It's um if you don't have a partner, go find one. 01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:26.320 Uh, you know, if you feel that you're alone, go find the appropriate community. 01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:40.320 Um, it's part of you know, psychologically, it's nice to guess feel that you're talking it through with other people of the experiencing similar things, and you can share and at least talk about it, and you know, people will listen. 01:01:40.480 --> 01:02:01.760 Um, it's really important because ultimately you're guess trying to feel, oh, it's okay to be the this way because you know, other people are feeling this way, and this is how they've um you know, in their own journeys have dealt dealt with it and sharing experience is and you're gonna get the here shared experience by being part of a group that you can trust, yeah. 01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:10.480 So choose carefully, you've and I guess evaluate if you're on in a community at the moment, guess evaluate is this the right community for me? 01:02:10.559 --> 01:02:15.519 And you know, do I feel comfortable in even sharing my experiences? 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:17.840 If you don't, then change community. 01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:23.599 And certainly do not get stuck inside your own head. 01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:34.960 And here's the one here's the one problem with that just when we're stuck inside our own head, we don't have the clarity unless we are forced to to start thinking like that. 01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:39.440 It's uh we're in a trap, that's why we go into these doom loops. 01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:46.320 We retreat, we do the very thing that we shouldn't be doing. 01:02:47.199 --> 01:02:49.360 Just a green-eyed monster takes over. 01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:50.079 Yeah. 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.760 So listen, any any thoughts to just bring this to a close, Mark? 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:55.599 No, I think it's a worthwhile subject. 01:02:55.760 --> 01:03:11.280 I think we uh we did our typical tube blokes down the pub talking about it, which you know, we we we talk from experience and we've shared some things I think that are going to be quite important for people to take away and uh you know apply to their own journey. 01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:18.079 We we've you know we we know that the soft stuff is important, most people ignore it. 01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:25.119 So don't ignore it because you're ignoring something that's your underlying physiology. 01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:29.360 Um it's actually the hard stuff. 01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:34.400 Yeah, and it and this time we call it the soft stuff, it's the hard stuff. 01:03:34.480 --> 01:03:43.440 Yeah, a bit that people find a really hard to do, and b, even though they know it's important, they'll go, I'll deal with it later. 01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:48.320 I've got I've got fires to fight before I go there. 01:03:48.480 --> 01:03:59.440 Yeah, I've gotta I've got to put my energy into technical analysis, maybe attending another technical analysis conference, maybe see some speakers on the oil market talking. 01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:00.400 That's more important. 01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.400 I've got to know where the market's going now. 01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:03.840 That feels urgent. 01:04:04.159 --> 01:04:10.719 I've got to deal with with everything that's happening in the next uh 24 hours, seven days. 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:12.159 I've got to be ahead of it. 01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:19.280 Okay, I've got to make sure that I'm constantly got my eye on truth social at the moment or whatever it is, you know. 01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:24.880 Um, I've got I've got everything is geared towards that short moment. 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:34.000 So that we're dealing with the urgent at the expense of the important, and we're putting all our energy into the urgent at the expense of the important. 01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:46.639 And it's the important that actually, you know, a few years down the line, if you've changed and move forward that you've dealt with, and if you haven't dealt with it, it's a few years down the line. 01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:51.280 You're looking back and going, I haven't grown at all, I haven't moved on, I haven't. 01:04:51.440 --> 01:05:05.519 I'm just constantly fighting um however many trading days are a year, 220 chase of short-term uh noise, and not working on myself becoming a better trader, transforming, growing. 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:08.480 Not not about me because I'm the person. 01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:18.639 And here's the thing is that the market doesn't care about your story, but your body is keeping the score whether you're listening to it or not. 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:23.360 That's what's hurting you. 01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:28.719 Brilliant, what a lovely chat. 01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:29.679 Great. 01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:32.079 Well, listen, it's great to be back. 01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:35.920 We're gonna be back quite a bit more over the next uh few months. 01:05:36.079 --> 01:05:41.760 We've got some great guests already being lined up and uh subjects to talk about. 01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:47.519 Um, do feel free to send us an email if any of this resonates with you. 01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:54.159 Info at alpha-mind dot net is uh is no it's the place to go. 01:05:54.320 --> 01:06:02.400 You can go to um our website page, alpha-mind.net, to find out more about how to contact us as well. 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:13.360 Um and uh yeah, it's been great being back out here talking to you, the audience on the uh subjects we know that matter to you and that we love you.