Why the “Decision Maker” Is a Myth의 전체 녹취록

discipline system. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.600 Anyway, you got the hint. 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:32.600 Now, I will give her a little credit as a lady, a little credit. 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:38.519 She did weave in detachment from outcomes into the thing, which I thought most people don't do. 00:04:38.919 --> 00:04:44.039 Most people say, Hey, I really enjoyed episode 497. 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:49.399 Uh, in fact, I enjoyed it so much I want to pitch our, you know, that that whole BS stuff. 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.159 So all of them sound like that. 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:51.720 Fair? 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:53.480 You do they're horrible. 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.879 And I would the other thing, I would find to give her credit. 00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:57.399 I don't think I think it's all AI. 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:01.960 I think these things scrape all the lingo we talk about with all the episodes out there. 00:05:02.039 --> 00:05:03.000 Yeah, and it's all made up. 00:05:03.080 --> 00:05:03.480 But go ahead. 00:05:03.559 --> 00:05:03.960 So yeah. 00:05:04.039 --> 00:05:08.200 So when I say hats off to her for weaving it in, hats off to Claude for weaving it in. 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:08.919 Exactly. 00:05:09.159 --> 00:05:09.559 All right. 00:05:09.799 --> 00:05:15.559 Here's the one that would get our attention, and that we would probably call this guy up and book a guest. 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:17.080 Bill and Bryan. 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:22.679 I was told you had a podcast, but since I rarely listened to podcasts, I was unaware of it. 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:30.200 But ironically, I work for a PR firm that puts me in charge of placing people on the podcasts I never listened to. 00:05:30.840 --> 00:05:34.279 As with all that said, I have a dude that might be helpful to your audience. 00:05:34.440 --> 00:05:35.639 His name is John Smith. 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:37.240 He's pretty smart, kind of funny. 00:05:37.320 --> 00:05:38.840 I think you guys might hit it off. 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.840 Anyway, if you have interest, great. 00:05:40.919 --> 00:05:44.039 I know you get hundreds of these requests, and most of them sound the same. 00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:45.960 So if it's a no, I understand. 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.399 If I were in your shoes, I'd probably be a no too. 00:05:50.200 --> 00:05:53.720 Now, if we get that one, that's A, it's going to stand out. 00:05:54.039 --> 00:05:58.519 B, it's a little bit more authentic because I know these people don't listen to our podcast. 00:05:58.840 --> 00:05:59.240 For sure. 00:05:59.399 --> 00:05:59.720 I know. 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:00.600 I know they don't. 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:01.399 For sure. 00:06:01.639 --> 00:06:09.240 And so if you're going to make a request to someone, it doesn't have to be ours, uh, obviously, but just be real, be authentic. 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:10.360 Say, look, you know what? 00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:12.360 You you've got a lot of these coming in. 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.360 I listened to a couple episodes based on the episodes I listen to. 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:18.360 Just just be real. 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:19.879 It's pretty easy. 00:06:20.039 --> 00:06:20.840 We might book you. 00:06:20.919 --> 00:06:22.039 It's pretty easy. 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.720 The other thing that just I don't want to go off tangent because this isn't really relevant today. 00:06:25.799 --> 00:06:28.279 It's more about our podcast, but we're not a guest show. 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:29.559 We very rarely have guests. 00:06:29.799 --> 00:06:32.840 And oftentimes when we do, they're advertisers and they have paid for that. 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.200 If you want to get on the podcast, here's the one that would get my attention. 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:41.000 Hey, Brian and Bill, I've got a$20,000 per munch per month appearance fee budget. 00:06:41.080 --> 00:06:45.159 Would you guys be open to talking about someone paying to be on your podcast? 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:46.600 We still vet them out. 00:06:46.679 --> 00:06:48.840 We don't take all of those, but yeah, anyway. 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.759 We're not an in we're not an interview show. 00:06:50.919 --> 00:06:51.320 Totally agree. 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:52.039 You know what I mean? 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:54.519 It's like we in the so anyway. 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:56.840 And maybe we should, maybe we should do more. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:03.320 Maybe we should, but we don't, yeah, we just don't have the manpower to book guests that we want. 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:09.799 So we would resort to just booking guests that came in from PR firms, and I'm not sure that would serve the audience very well. 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:13.720 Yeah, nah, we love our audience, and I think they love us and they want to hear from us. 00:07:13.799 --> 00:07:17.399 Yeah, I think you audience tell me otherwise, but it sure feels that way. 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.320 Okay, so we're gonna talk about kind of we're gonna go back-to-back topics here. 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.600 Um, and I'm I'm using some data here. 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:29.960 Um, so you've heard me talk about the company Gong, which we're a big fan of and use their tool. 00:07:30.039 --> 00:07:31.080 It's really, really awesome. 00:07:31.159 --> 00:07:36.840 I'm mostly a fan of their data, what their data says about win rates and lot, close loss rates and all these things. 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:40.519 One of the things that they say, we're gonna talk in this episode next about process. 00:07:40.679 --> 00:07:42.360 This is all about managing process. 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.360 And we're gonna start by teeing it up to say, here's the case to be made. 00:07:46.519 --> 00:07:49.960 And then in episode two, uh, we're gonna talk about so how do I do that? 00:07:50.039 --> 00:07:52.039 How do I navigate through a little bit more? 00:07:52.360 --> 00:07:59.240 Um, but we've got to the point here at our firm at Blaine

Zebra where we've got um some data now. 00:07:59.320 --> 00:08:06.919 We've got enough data to kind of say, hey, are gong stats true when it comes to the buzzy word people use here is multi-threading. 00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:13.080 It just means that there's more than one person involved on your buyer side andor on the seller side. 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:18.919 So instead of Brian selling a bill, Bill's a decision maker, Brian's the seller, that world is gone. 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.039 Or there are multiple people involved on both sides. 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:27.080 And so these are uh so gong would foot these stats, but let me just read a couple of these stats to you. 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:29.000 So these are our own stats. 00:08:29.559 --> 00:08:34.039 Um, this is on a pool of 169 closed opportunities. 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:40.919 When we have two or three people involved on the buyer side, our closed win rate is 10%. 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:46.360 When that number goes up over four, our closed win rate is 86%. 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.240 It's that blows your mind. 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:50.200 Eight times. 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:51.000 Eight times. 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:53.000 It's crazy, and that's not a pool. 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:54.120 That's 169 opportunities. 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:54.919 It's not good. 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:56.200 That's good. 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:57.559 No, no, that's good. 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:04.759 Uh, when you throw a C level person in there, our win rate's 53%, and VP level or above is 77%. 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:14.279 So we're we're just looking at our own stuff over here and going, hey gang, it's pretty obvious what we need to do in the sales process to be successful to win. 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:25.480 And so I thought it'd be fun to talk a little bit and you as a listener to kind of one debunk some old philosophies, not even debunked, you need to get rid of them. 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.879 And I we hear leaders say the same things. 00:09:27.959 --> 00:09:33.159 We hear leaders say talk about this like mono mono, you know, decision maker thing. 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:39.559 And then um, and then we'll uh second episode, we'll go into kind of the how to, how do I navigate through all these things? 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:42.039 So, first, Bill, how do the stats hit you? 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:44.039 Like a ton of bricks. 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:46.039 Yeah, I'm surprised. 00:09:46.199 --> 00:09:48.919 I'm surprised they're that high, and you've got a good number here. 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:51.959 It's not like you said seven people, seven of these ops. 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:54.360 So I I that doesn't surprise me. 00:09:54.439 --> 00:09:56.679 I mean, it doesn't surprise me at all. 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:01.079 And and the the VP and the C C level, 77, 80 percent. 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:16.839 I mean, we how long have we been saying you got to call at levels that can make decisions and and not

forget about the people below them that can also influence the decision, it's both, and it's never only the CEO or the VP of sales. 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.639 And so uh no, it doesn't surprise me at all. 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:29.879 What I'm interested in talking about is okay, if I'm listening to this and I'm doing the two to three and I'm getting a 10 to 15, 20% close rate, how exactly do I get past this? 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:39.319 And I think you you called it number one is you've got to accept in your own mind that that is the old way of looking at decision making as a decision maker. 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.000 It's gone, it's gone, it's gone. 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:51.240 There's and it uh troubles me a bit to and Bill validate me here if you agree. 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:55.000 Uh, we work, Bill and I work with sales leaders constantly. 00:10:55.079 --> 00:11:00.759 We're constantly involved with VP of sales, chief revenue officers or sales leaders, whatever you have, whatever the title you give them. 00:11:01.319 --> 00:11:08.439 And they the problem starts there because they will ask in a deal review, well, who's the actual decision maker? 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:11.879 And we say actual, you're literally actual person's name. 00:11:12.199 --> 00:11:14.919 And that you're just it's absolutely wrong. 00:11:15.079 --> 00:11:18.759 It's it's it's the it's does not exist anymore. 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:28.759 And the more that you you breed that in your culture by asking who the decision maker is, the sellers they're you know, they're you're the boss, they're gonna go, oh it's Bill. 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:35.000 Bill, well, it's Bill, it's Casky, you know, it's his name on the building, it's got its bill, and it's not Bill. 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:40.199 Even if you're a small team or something, there's other people involved, you know. 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:48.839 Um, yeah, if you're selling to a dentist, I know we do done work, you know, you're like, Well, the dentist is a decision maker, but not he's not the only one in the decision process. 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:55.959 He's gonna ask his staff because if hit if you put new software in a dental office and the front office manager or the hygienist don't like it, I guarantee they're gonna get rid of it. 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:59.240 Guaranteed, because that dentist deal with them bitching all the time. 00:11:59.959 --> 00:12:05.319 So it's just like you got to, if you're listening to this and you're still in like, oh, I call in decision makers. 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:07.399 I find I need to find out who the decision maker is. 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:09.240 You're just you're dead on arrival, man. 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:11.079 You gotta let go of that concept. 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:23.079 So so we're so being aware that maybe you have some old thinking, and and believe me, there's plenty of places in business that where my thinking is a little antiquated and it's it requires some updating. 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:24.519 So this may be one for you. 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:29.319 So there's no shame in it uh unless you just don't admit it and you stick your head in the sand. 00:12:29.559 --> 00:12:45.000 Uh, the second thing is that I think you've got to make your process encompass more people, so make it a procedural thing rather than a, oh, I don't want to call above him because he'll get mad if I go to his boss, you know, that whole BS stuff. 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.079 No, make your process encompassing. 00:12:47.240 --> 00:13:03.159 So, you know, look, and I've got a client who who did this, and he he raised his closing from 20 something to 40 something almost overnight when he said on the first call, no matter who it was with, and he would usually get in at a lower level, too low a level, and he would say, Look, here's our process. 00:13:03.319 --> 00:13:04.279 Our process is number one. 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:08.759 We've got to talk to CFO, CRO, VP, whatever, you uh users. 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.199 And we typically have four to five people who are in the calls. 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:21.879 And because we want to make sure that not only we, if you buy it, we want you to be able to implement it and implement it effectively and on time and on budget and get the maximum value out of it. 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:23.240 So, therefore, that's our process. 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:24.199 Well, guess what? 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:30.919 Sometimes people say to him, Nah, you're not going to talk to the CFO, which he says, okay, fine, you're not a prospect. 00:13:31.079 --> 00:13:31.399 Yeah. 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:39.720 Not in a well, sometimes it might sound it might sound arrogant, but why would I go through the process for a 15% close rate? 00:13:39.959 --> 00:13:46.519 And and what he also finds is 75% of companies are like, okay, if that's your process, that's your process. 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:47.639 We'll abide by it. 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:48.279 Yes. 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.199 Like that's that's literally what it is. 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:58.439 So I think if you're, you know, we're doing this this session, this episode is more about kind of the thought process, the proof points, and the data, and kind of the bigger picture. 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:02.039 Next time we'll get into tactics, yeah, about literally figuratively how to do this. 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:26.519 But um a big a bigger picture uh element here is if you don't have a one-page document, which I do, I could show it to you right this second that shows your process in a picture and has the names or the titles, rather, not the names of the humans, but the titles of the people on the prospect side who are involved at each of the stages, you're doing yourself a disservice. 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:27.000 I love it. 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:28.279 You've got to have a document. 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.879 And it just it's exactly what Bill just said,

but it's a physical document. 00:14:32.839 --> 00:14:37.000 Um and it says, you know, here's step one, here's who's involved. 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:38.439 Step two, here's who all's involved. 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:39.799 Step three, here's who's involved. 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:42.439 And it's exactly what Bill just said. 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:44.919 If you don't do it, you don't do it. 00:14:45.319 --> 00:14:47.319 You know, they're like, we can't get those people in the room. 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:47.959 Like, no problem. 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:49.079 Yeah, let me know when you can. 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:51.319 And you you're out, go on. 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:59.159 Because the data will tell you the stats tell you that's a huge waste of time if you carry forward past that step without those people. 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:06.439 That it says the stats say, like, why would you ever proceed without four people in the room? 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:10.600 You just would, you just don't because your your win rates go there an eighth. 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.360 It's in our world at least. 00:15:12.439 --> 00:15:14.600 Yeah, I don't think that's probably unusual. 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.000 I don't, you know, I don't think your world would be that much different. 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:23.159 I don't think I think where you're probably better is at getting those other four people involved in it. 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.279 You have your people and you are savvy at that. 00:15:26.439 --> 00:15:28.439 If if I'm an amateur, I don't know how to do that. 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:32.439 If I just say, well, you we got to have the CFO involved, they're probably gonna say, nah, sorry. 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.319 So you got to have some, and we'll talk about that next time too. 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.720 And when you make a picture, it looks it's yeah, it's stronger versus just saying it. 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:41.000 You know, you physically show it. 00:15:41.079 --> 00:15:45.079 And you talk about here's what we're gonna talk about, and here's why that person needs to be involved. 00:15:45.240 --> 00:16:00.279 So when you think about uh there's a uh there's a belief that I have that you know, your asset, if you if you deploy your assets well, you can have anything you want in life. 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:09.399 In other words, if you use what you have to get what you desire, that's that's really you're in a wealth position, whether it has to do with money or customers or whatever. 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:12.039 And one of the biggest assets is your sales process. 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:17.399 Think of it as an asset, don't think of it as something that you just press people through. 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.519 Think of it as an as a business asset. 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:28.439 When you lay it out, it should have some richness to it and some belief and some re reverence to it. 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:32.679 I mean, if you do it on the back of

a napkin, okay, that's better than not doing it all. 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:39.079 But come on, if the sales process is what you say it is, it needs to be diagrammed and pictured. 00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:40.919 And now you don't need to do it on Fiverr. 00:16:41.079 --> 00:16:48.679 You can go to Claude or Chad GPD and say, build me a sales process schematic, a visual, and it'll get you 80% of the way there. 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:50.199 You might hand it to a designer then. 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:55.799 But the point is don't don't short short short sell the sales process. 00:16:55.959 --> 00:16:58.279 I know we've talked about it, but this is a huge thing. 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:04.839 And if you want to say in the step three, this is where we get your CFO and CRO involved, put it down there every time. 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:13.240 And I didn't even think about that, Bill, because we made ours before you know chat came along and and Claude. 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:15.799 But what you're saying is so true. 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:25.480 You could you could literally tell Claude, I need you to design a one-page document PDF in my my company's branded colors with four stages and put these people in here. 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.039 It'll take it a minute, maybe. 00:17:28.360 --> 00:17:30.680 And then you have it, and then just show it to people. 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.000 Oh, that's a minute I don't have exactly. 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:40.759 I gotta get to Starbucks, and then I gotta watch a little uh breaking bad, some reruns, and then I got homeland. 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.480 It's not not about like a I gotta I got some customer fires I gotta put out. 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.160 I'm like, oh, do you some customer fires I gotta put out? 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.000 I gotta put out some customer fires. 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:52.279 Oh that's funny. 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.200 Jesus we gotta we gotta go back to those sayings that annoy us. 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.799 Oh my god, that's putting out fires all day. 00:17:59.879 --> 00:18:00.920 I didn't have time to prospect. 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:02.200 I'm putting out fires. 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:04.839 Sometimes I think I'm just a fire. 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:06.680 Exactly. 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:14.839 Um what I have one more additional thing here on sales process, and then we'll close up and then what we'll talk next time about the um some how-tos. 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.839 And this may be a how-to, so I may have I may have crossed the line there, Brian. 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:29.240 But um, when you do your process, if you lay it out, make sure underneath each each stage you give a reason why this part of the process exists. 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:40.119 So when you're telling somebody, you say, look, our first stage is the discovery stage, let's just say, and that's where you and I have a chance, like we're doing today, to spend 15, 20 minutes, just get directionally right. 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.240 Whether is this a direction that you want to go and I want to go? 00:18:43.399 --> 00:18:46.200 The reason we do that is blank. 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:52.759 Always have a reason for each stage of the process and put it on the paper, uh, or at least know it. 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:57.160 So when you're walking somebody through the process, there's a why behind each step. 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:01.720 It's not just something you magically divined out of thin air. 00:19:01.879 --> 00:19:08.200 No, there's a reason that we we do the economic assessment in stage three because we know enough to know that you do it. 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:10.039 It's before we get into the process. 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.000 If you don't think it's a good fit, we know it then. 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:13.960 Whatever. 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.480 Also always suggest and talk about the why. 00:19:17.639 --> 00:19:19.000 Always, always, always. 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.879 It's really good. 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.599 And just it's for the customer, too. 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.759 Yeah, part of one of the first things to discovery is is there a problem to solve? 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.799 If yes, is the problem we're solving now? 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:34.119 And if yes, is the problem have an economic impact we're solved? 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:37.160 Yeah, just even that, like we'll just work on it together. 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:39.480 And if the answer is no, we found out early. 00:19:39.639 --> 00:19:41.799 We found out we're so glad we figured this out now. 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:42.279 That's right. 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:43.160 Carry on. 00:19:43.399 --> 00:19:58.519 Hey, if you have not joined the insider program, we have an uh event coming up the first Friday in November, and it is a 2027 planning pre-staged event, and it's really on how you can position yourself for success next year. 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:05.960 In December, we'll do the actual business planning, but I want to get people thinking about how do I position myself properly for success. 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:09.079 And we're going to be going through uh several steps on how you can do that. 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:14.039 So go to advanced selling podcast.com/slash insider uh and you can join there. 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:14.839 Awesome. 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:15.639 See you next time. 00:20:15.879 --> 00:20:16.440 See you next time. 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:16.759 Bye.