#567: Personal AI Agents for Pythonistas의 전체 녹취록

00:01:56.170 --> 00:01:59.980 It comes with built-in partial support for things like HTMX, 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:02.360 and it fully supports free-threaded Python. 00:02:02.950 --> 00:02:04.760 Plus, it extends the language for built-in 00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:05.440 markdown support. 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:07.320 And because it's written in Rust, 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:10.439 it's 50 times faster than the common Python 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:11.940 Markdown libraries you're probably using. 00:02:12.220 --> 00:02:13.780 If you use the Chameleon language, 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:14.820 you definitely want 00:02:14.820 --> 00:02:15.360 to check it out. 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.680 Just go to mkennedy.codes.com. 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:21.440 It's been powering Talk Python and the courses 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:27.720 for a week now. The entire website is 20% faster and migrating is just an import statement and a 00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:28.720 single line of code. 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:32.760 I hope many of you out there find some cool use cases for Chameleon RS. 00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:34.220 Hey, Jeff. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:34.860 Hey, Michael. 00:02:35.060 --> 00:02:36.760 Awesome to have you on Talk Python again. 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:37.780 Yeah, I appreciate it. 00:02:39.940 --> 00:02:40.420 It's 00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:45.020 topic than Django this time, I guess. So that'll be fun to talk about Django AI and all the things. 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:48.000 Yeah, we're going to do. I didn't know Django AI was a product. 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:49.280 No, it's Django and AI. 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:53.460 We're going to talk about some amazing stuff and it certainly does apply to Django, but it applies 00:02:53.900 --> 00:02:54.620 more broadly. 00:02:55.020 --> 00:02:58.440 I feel like this episode is a little bit more of a Tinkerer's episode, 00:02:59.260 --> 00:03:03.740 a hacker's in the original sense of hacking than maybe straight web development. 00:03:03.940 --> 00:03:04.340 What do you think? 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:05.380 Yeah, I think so. 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:07.800 Not sure how you want to get into it, 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:10.400 but I know one of the topics we want 00:03:10.420 --> 00:03:12.240 And Hermes is an open source, 00:03:12.540 --> 00:03:13.820 self-hostable AI agent, 00:03:14.160 --> 00:03:15.580 which is probably a little different 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:19.560 than how a lot of Python people are going to run applications and do stuff. 00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:22.080 Normally you're writing an application that you run locally, 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:22.840 or maybe you're going to 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:23.480 run it in the cloud. 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:29.120 So you're looking at Python libraries where Hermes is kind of a server that you run and 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:31.020 you can connect to it from your phone or desktop. 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:35.940 And it just kind of does things for you that you tell it what to do or ask it to invent 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:36.220 things. 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:38.140 What's your experience with it? 00:03:38.300 --> 00:03:40.760 My experience is this is some wild, wild times. 00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:43.560 There's like really weird stuff and we're going to get into it. 00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:46.580 And it's going to be weird, but it's pretty fascinating. 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:47.120 You know, 00:03:47.660 --> 00:03:48.300 everyone out there, 00:03:48.760 --> 00:03:49.640 I mean, as Mabel brought, 00:03:50.020 --> 00:03:55.740 almost everyone out there is experienced with agentic coding tools like Claude Code and Cursor. 00:03:56.060 --> 00:04:00.600 But I want to just take a moment and kind of really put this into the right box that it belongs in. 00:04:00.920 --> 00:04:02.060 Because this is very different. 00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:03.640 The word agent, 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:04.420 agentic, 00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:06.500 all of these things is just thrown around all over the place. 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.040 I don't know. Do you have a better term than agents? 00:04:09.630 --> 00:04:11.900 But it's a very different box than these coding agents. 00:04:12.260 --> 00:04:12.560 Yeah. 00:04:12.920 --> 00:04:16.920 I mean, I think it's a true agent in that it's always running and it does have a loop. 00:04:17.320 --> 00:04:20.200 And you can tell it what that loop is. So I think by default, 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:23.320 Hermes wants to wake up like every 30 minutes in OpenClaw. 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.960 But you can tell it like, I want you every day to do something for me. 00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:31.440 Like I have it do kind of a daily briefing where I've got two kids. I'm taking them to school. 00:04:31.820 --> 00:04:32.780 We live in Kansas. 00:04:33.100 --> 00:04:34.360 It could snow one day. 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:36.080 It could be 100 degrees the next day. 00:04:36.400 --> 00:04:37.380 Usually not that close together. 00:04:37.940 --> 00:04:38.040 But, 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:39.700 you know, like I have it look at the weather, 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:40.500 look at the schedule. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.460 Tell me if I need to put my daughter who's four in a jacket or a coat. 00:04:45.020 --> 00:04:47.360 My son wants to wear shorts until it's 30 degrees outside. 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.520 So I at least need to get him in a jacket or coat, 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:50.240 depending on the time. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:51.600 Want to know if it's going to rain. 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:53.000 Kind of want to know what's on my schedule. 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:54.140 Also want to know, 00:04:54.380 --> 00:04:54.540 like, 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.160 is there going to be a football game or basketball game? 00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:59.860 Because the University of Kansas is three blocks from my house. 00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:02.260 I kind of need to know what to prepare for in my neighborhood. 00:05:02.670 --> 00:05:04.060 Like,

should I drop my car off early? 00:05:04.380 --> 00:05:05.880 Want to know if the kids have sporting events. 00:05:06.130 --> 00:05:10.180 And it does a beautiful job just kind of creating this like daily report for me every day that 00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:14.560 I can just read very quickly in the morning and just kind of have a feel for what's going to go on. 00:05:14.820 --> 00:05:17.380 And then you get into lots of absurd things too, 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.780 like having to do transcriptions from videos 00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:22.540 or having to follow up with you or remind you. 00:05:22.700 --> 00:05:24.580 Kind of like with the phone where you say, 00:05:24.830 --> 00:05:27.620 you know, Siri, give me a reminder at X time a day. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.980 But this actually works well compared to like, 00:05:30.330 --> 00:05:31.820 I think what we try to do with our phones. 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:32.240 Yeah. 00:05:32.630 --> 00:05:35.880 The reminders actually used to work pretty well, but with the new Siri, 00:05:36.140 --> 00:05:37.260 they're just so much. 00:05:37.760 --> 00:05:40.100 The new Siri is just not a, it's not a go for me. 00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:46.620 So I'm appreciating my Hermes set up way more even than I did before because it continues to work. 00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:46.960 Yeah. 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:52.160 It's really interesting technology because I think sometimes when people talk about like skills, 00:05:52.790 --> 00:05:54.380 they think here's a markdown file that's, 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.600 you know, on my computer and Hermes is kind of built on skills. 00:05:57.900 --> 00:05:59.560 But skills are basically to-do lists. 00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:02.240 And so if you want to have it do something more deterministic, 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:03.940 because everybody says 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:06.720 agents are non-deterministic and LLMs in general, 00:06:06.880 --> 00:06:08.800 they're non-deterministic by default. 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.300 Skills are kind of a way that you give them a set of instructions. 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:14.360 Agents are really good at following instructions. 00:06:14.700 --> 00:06:15.960 And then you also work with memories. 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:17.560 Memories are facts. 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:19.880 If I tell my agent, my name is Jeff or it's Michael, 00:06:20.060 --> 00:06:21.320 it's always going to remember that 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:22.560 and it's going to know how to refer to me. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:27.680 That's also why it works when you describe like, my family is four people and we have 00:06:27.700 --> 00:06:32.100 And I've even used Hermes before to look at the weather to tell me like, 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:34.120 should I water my lawn today? 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:38.600 Or when is the ideal time to fertilize since last time I put seed down? 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:39.700 Being in the Midwest, 00:06:39.950 --> 00:06:41.320 I also live right by the Kansas

River. 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:43.860 We have no problems with water whatsoever in our area. 00:06:44.520 --> 00:06:48.620 Unlike maybe California or certain parts of the country that have more restrictions. 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:50.320 And yeah, it's just amazing to wait back. 00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:51.820 You can water whenever you want, but you've got to do it. 00:06:52.010 --> 00:06:53.360 You still want to be optimal about it, right? 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:55.760 I don't want to do it when it's going to rain the same day, 00:06:55.940 --> 00:06:56.040 right? 00:06:56.140 --> 00:06:59.020 So there's just a lot of wild stuff you can give it. 00:06:59.150 --> 00:07:02.760 Like I used to use a service that I'd like pay a subscription for every year and they'd 00:07:02.860 --> 00:07:05.840 send me fertilizer for my lawn and tell me when to put the fertilizer on it. 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.020 And I used that for years, but they always sent me like two or three times as much product 00:07:10.170 --> 00:07:10.700 as what I needed. 00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:12.840 So I finally stopped using it. 00:07:13.130 --> 00:07:16.900 And then I grabbed all my PDFs for the types of fertilizer in the product and I gave it 00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:19.080 to Hermes and I had it come up with a lawn schedule. 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:21.540 And one thing it told me is that under their schedule, 00:07:21.970 --> 00:07:23.500 they have you putting new seed down 00:07:23.590 --> 00:07:25.000 and then fertilizing two weeks later. 00:07:25.100 --> 00:07:28.420 you really should wait three to four weeks or you're just frying the grass seed that you just 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:28.720 planted. 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:31.180 And so it's like strange insights like that, 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:33.000 that I know how to put seed on the ground, 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.560 right? I know how to water it. I kind of know how to do fertilizer. 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:36.200 Like you attach, 00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:38.060 attach it to like, you know, your spigot or whatever, 00:07:38.380 --> 00:07:39.340 and you water your lawn. 00:07:39.740 --> 00:07:40.120 But like, 00:07:40.420 --> 00:07:44.180 there's just a lot of information there that I just find to be like truly fascinating when you 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:46.460 have the whole internet that you can use to get information from. 00:07:47.060 --> 00:07:48.460 100%. We're going to go through 00:07:48.540 --> 00:07:55.060 some really cool use cases as well. I do want to maybe start by doing a survey of different 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:56.200 that are out there. 00:07:56.450 --> 00:07:59.020 So we talked about Hermes. We're going to come back to Hermes because you 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:03.800 and I are both fans of Hermes and have done a lot with it. But maybe the one that really kicked it 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:04.820 off was Open Claw, 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:05.440 would you say? 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:07.800 I think so. That's the first one for me, at least. 00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:08.860 Peter, 00:08:09.010 --> 00:08:10.200 I don't know his last name. 00:08:10.470 --> 00:08:12.220 Actually, I know his last name. I'm just not going to say it. 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:16.740 He kind of caught my interest right around Christmas last year over the holidays. 00:08:17.090 --> 00:08:17.200 And 00:08:17.300 --> 00:08:18.300 then somewhere around January, 00:08:18.550 --> 00:08:18.900 I thought, 00:08:19.060 --> 00:08:21.620 man, I'm the last person to pay attention to this thing. 00:08:21.820 --> 00:08:23.440 And this is probably four or five names ago, 00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:31.000 but I installed it on a Saturday and then put it on a spare Mac mini before back when Mac minis were like $299 and they couldn't give them away. 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:35.039 Now I think they're what, like $899 or $1,000 or something like that. 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:35.300 Ridiculous. 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:35.560 Yeah, 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:36.060 it's ridiculous. 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:39.719 And so I went with my family down to the library after installing it. 00:08:40.020 --> 00:08:46.140 And so my kids were picking up books and I'm good at the library for 10, 15 minutes and I'm just kind of waiting for them to have fun and finish up. 00:08:46.420 --> 00:08:50.740 And so then I was on my phone saying like, hey, can you do this to a website or can you take a screenshot? 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:54.240 And then I knew I had a bunch of domains that I just had parked forever. 00:08:54.660 --> 00:08:55.020 And I'm like, 00:08:55.220 --> 00:08:57.660 why don't you go ahead and make websites for all like five or six of these? 00:08:58.120 --> 00:08:59.440 And it just kind of took off. 00:08:59.610 --> 00:09:00.980 And then 30 minutes later, 00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:03.100 it's like sending me links to them and screenshots. 00:09:03.510 --> 00:09:04.600 They were all on my Mac. 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:06.420 But I'm like, this is incredible technology. 00:09:06.800 --> 00:09:09.460 But for me, that was kind of the first one that I had ever played with. 00:09:10.040 --> 00:09:12.580 It still is on that same Mac Mini from a year ago. 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:14.100 I never bought a Mac Mini for it. 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.580 But it sounded like a crazy thing to do at the time. 00:09:16.730 --> 00:09:20.680 And I don't know that it sounds as bad anymore other than I don't want to spend 900 bucks for a Mac Mini. 00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:23.920 but I kind of regret not getting an extra one for $2.99 though. That was a deal. 00:09:24.280 --> 00:09:25.160 Yeah. You could have just sold, 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:28.640 you could have become a wholesaler of Mac minis and just retired. 00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.420 It would have been incredible. 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:33.180 I think since then everybody kind of has one of these now, 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:34.520 like you've got Anthropic. 00:09:34.680 --> 00:09:36.240 I

think they have one. Is that, are they dot? 00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:37.060 Is that the latest? 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.340 No, OpenAI is dot. I believe Anthropics. 00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:41.880 It's not really though. 00:09:42.579 --> 00:09:43.600 It's co-work. 00:09:43.760 --> 00:09:44.160 That's right. 00:09:44.300 --> 00:09:44.640 Co-work. 00:09:45.040 --> 00:09:45.320 You know, I, 00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:46.520 this is the thing that we gotta, 00:09:46.780 --> 00:09:50.180 I think we've got to be a little bit explicit about for folks. 00:09:50.680 --> 00:09:53.060 and help them understand the different angles. 00:09:53.140 --> 00:09:54.880 It's like, co-work is super cool, 00:09:55.380 --> 00:09:59.920 but to me, co-work is halfway from an LLM to these agents. 00:10:00.180 --> 00:10:01.820 It's not all the way there, 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:02.220 right? 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.160 I can create these scheduled things that run in co-work 00:10:05.340 --> 00:10:07.860 and I can say, "Hey, every hour call this webhook 00:10:07.900 --> 00:10:09.680 and then tell me if something happened." 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:12.940 But there's also so much more tool use 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.440 that these things like Hermes and OpenClaw have, 00:10:15.760 --> 00:10:16.560 which is really interesting 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:19.100 and some very interesting self-improvement. 00:10:19.880 --> 00:10:20.840 You know, you hear about RSI, 00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:22.920 the recursive self-improvement, 00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:24.720 not the carpal tunnel version 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:25.380 these days, 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:26.580 because we don't type anymore. 00:10:26.670 --> 00:10:27.160 We just talk. 00:10:27.920 --> 00:10:30.900 But yeah, so I don't know how to, I'm not sure if you're thinking of co-work. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:32.240 Yeah, I guess it was co-work. 00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:34.820 I've not found these to be as useful. 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:38.080 I find them to be useful for other things like coding, 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:40.000 quick chats and stuff to like 00:10:40.300 --> 00:10:43.160 kind of replace the search engine in my mind, I guess. 00:10:43.460 --> 00:10:47.260 I think that between Hermes and OpenClaw, 00:10:47.680 --> 00:10:48.680 there's more personality. 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.040 They're kind of more like they came to your devices first. 00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:57.040 So like you could run it in your Slack or your Telegram or your Discord or maybe even Signal. 00:10:57.560 --> 00:10:59.260 Some of them even work with like iMessage, 00:10:59.420 --> 00:11:00.720 even though that's probably a hack. 00:11:01.540 --> 00:11:03.260 They kind of came to you because, 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.540 you know, they were you were hosting them yourself. 00:11:05.880 --> 00:11:08.320 And so you needed some conduit or way to talk to it. 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:11.560 So they kind of had the like support where you were by necessity. 00:11:12.000

--> 00:11:18.860 Where I find that like Claude and OpenAI's codex or ChatGPT, I guess, and they need to work on their names. 00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:20.760 There's like eight names for every product using. 00:11:21.780 --> 00:11:21.900 You know, 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:23.640 they tend to work off of their apps. 00:11:23.930 --> 00:11:26.760 So if you have the app installed on your iPhone or Android or on your desktop, 00:11:26.930 --> 00:11:27.920 then you have access to them. 00:11:28.130 --> 00:11:30.860 I still prefer the CLI for running those tools, 00:11:31.220 --> 00:11:32.360 especially for doing code stuff. 00:11:32.760 --> 00:11:33.240 But like, 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:36.620 and I don't know, I think now maybe Claude has the ability to connect to Slack. 00:11:37.030 --> 00:11:39.000 And they're slowly kind of catching up and saying, 00:11:39.310 --> 00:11:41.820 you know, here's alternative ways for teams to work with them. 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:42.900 But that agency, 00:11:43.850 --> 00:11:45.420 the fact that they're kind of designed to, 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:48.360 you know, have schedules built in to work up. 00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:50.800 There's just a lot of weird personality in them. 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:53.180 Like Hermes even ships with a bunch of batteries. 00:11:53.540 --> 00:11:55.180 Like I think it can run like a Minecraft server 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:56.300 by default and stuff. 00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:57.980 I don't find that to be super useful, 00:11:58.240 --> 00:11:59.280 but apparently enough people did 00:11:59.400 --> 00:12:00.860 that they decided that like by default, 00:12:01.100 --> 00:12:02.440 this can run your Minecraft server. 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:02.900 Yeah, 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:04.000 that's an interesting one. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:05.200 But you know, I guess it's, 00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.560 it is a bit of an indicator where this does. 00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:10.360 Like Claude, when Claude Cowork runs, 00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:12.920 it generally runs at Claude. 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:14.360 And I don't know about Dots. 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:15.480 That's the new one. 00:12:15.640 --> 00:12:17.400 This is the OpenAI Dots. 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:18.580 I think it's kind of similar. 00:12:19.020 --> 00:12:20.620 There's MetaMuse, which is also, 00:12:20.750 --> 00:12:22.720 these are, Dots and Muse are the two ones 00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:24.020 that really just came out. 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:25.340 And Muse is interesting. 00:12:25.470 --> 00:12:26.220 I haven't used it, 00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:28.380 but you actually get a virtual server, 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:30.320 like a $5 server or something 00:12:30.490 --> 00:12:32.280 as part of using Muse. 00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:33.440 And that's where it runs. 00:12:33.900 --> 00:12:35.940 Whereas things like Hermes and OpenClaw, 00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:37.060 at least traditionally, 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:39.500 at least for me, run on my computer.

00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:41.720 Now that might sound scary to people. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.340 So mine runs on a Docker container 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.480 with a very limited set of folders 00:12:47.500 --> 00:12:50.240 over to it, not just full access to my whole computer, 00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:50.520 right? 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:52.440 But I think that's one of the big differences. 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.040 'Cause once it's running on your computer, 00:12:54.220 --> 00:12:55.700 it has all these different capabilities, 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:56.060 right? 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.020 It's just like, well, what tools are on this computer 00:12:58.240 --> 00:12:59.040 or in this Docker image? 00:12:59.260 --> 00:13:00.140 And if you don't have one, 00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:01.500 like, well, can we install Chrome? 00:13:01.700 --> 00:13:02.580 That would make my life better. 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:04.280 Like, sure, go install Chrome, I don't care. 00:13:04.540 --> 00:13:07.400 I've fully given my Hermes my Mac mini at my house. 00:13:07.700 --> 00:13:08.720 And so it can run Chrome, 00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:09.920 it can like do stuff. 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:13.360 I do limit as far as like what iCloud is connected to it. 00:13:13.560 --> 00:13:15.100 That way I don't have to worry about putting anything 00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:16.560 on that machine that it could potentially, 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:17.180 you know, 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.220 share or do something with it that I don't want to take a chance on. 00:13:20.540 --> 00:13:21.680 So I just kind of lucked out, 00:13:21.730 --> 00:13:22.600 had that machine anyways, 00:13:23.020 --> 00:13:23.460 plus a laptop. 00:13:24.040 --> 00:13:27.040 So Hermes runs on it. I don't run Hermes on my work machine 00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:32.000 just because I don't want any client files or anything to ever be, I don't want it to have the 00:13:32.180 --> 00:13:34.940 option to be able to like poke around or do something with it. 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:36.320 So I'm a little looser with 00:13:36.420 --> 00:13:39.180 mine, but it's because I have that dedicated box that can just live on. 00:13:39.330 --> 00:13:40.240 And then I've got several 00:13:40.520 --> 00:13:41.740 like, they're called orange pies, 00:13:42.260 --> 00:13:44.020 but they're kind of like a better raspberry pie. 00:13:44.350 --> 00:13:45.140 I popped up a few 00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:49.500 Hermes on those as well to play with because they're tiny and they're just fine. It's just 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:50.900 any Linux box would work too. 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.640 Orange pie. I've not heard of orange pie, 00:13:53.060 --> 00:13:53.680 although yeah, 00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:54.440 it looks very interesting. 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.940 I've got kind of the cheapy run there is one of them. 00:13:58.420 --> 00:14:00.740 This portion of talk Python to me is brought to you by, 00:14:00.940 --> 00:14:01.100 well, 00:14:01.360

--> 00:14:01.500 you, 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:03.600 I recently added a membership 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:04.880 program to talk Python. 00:14:05.520 --> 00:14:09.000 One of the cornerstones of that program is live tech talks. 00:14:09.340 --> 00:14:10.280 So let me just 00:14:10.420 --> 00:14:13.080 take a moment and tell you about our first upcoming live tech talk. 00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:14.540 It's presented by me, 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:18.040 The subject is owning and running your own Python infrastructure. 00:14:18.780 --> 00:14:22.480 You may know I've tried to adopt a no-nonsense approach to running Talk Python 00:14:22.570 --> 00:14:23.600 and all the related apps, 00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:24.380 the podcasts, 00:14:24.540 --> 00:14:25.260 the courses sites, 00:14:25.540 --> 00:14:28.000 the APIs for the mobile apps, and the MCP servers, 00:14:28.220 --> 00:14:28.620 and much more. 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.680 This talk is a peek behind the curtain on how I run all of these 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.220 for under $100 a month, 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.060 including over 10 terabytes of traffic per month. 00:14:37.460 --> 00:14:39.520 But even if you heard me talk about this topic before, 00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:41.720 I have a true surprise for you. 00:14:42.040 --> 00:14:45.600 I'm going to share something really wild that I've changed over to in the past few weeks, 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.060 and you won't want to miss it. 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:50.560 Just visit talkpython.fm/meetups for the details 00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:51.800 and to add it to your calendar. 00:14:52.470 --> 00:14:53.420 The event is on Wednesday, 00:14:53.640 --> 00:14:55.200 November 4th at 10am Pacific, 00:14:55.800 --> 00:14:59.220 and it'll be available for replay after that to all members as well. 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:01.140 Membership starts at just 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.620 $5 a month, and it really helps support the show. 00:15:03.890 --> 00:15:06.260 So become a member and get access to top tier 00:15:06.410 --> 00:15:07.900 live tech events and much more. 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.160 Visit talkpython.fm/meetups to get started today. 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:15.900 they're super neat like i said they're like a raspberry pi they make all different shapes and 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:21.440 sizes of them and they are just so much faster what a raspberry pi is they're not as underpowered 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:28.060 so this uh brings up a pretty interesting angle they do run code but for their actual real 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:33.840 computational bits primarily i would say at least i'm guessing that most of the time what you do is 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:40.640 you plug an llm into your agent thing let's just put hermes in as a word a stand in for all of 00:15:40.640 --> 00:15:40.700 these, 00:15:40.900 --> 00:15:42.460 right? Plug it, plug it into Hermes. 00:15:42.790 --> 00:15:44.300 And then when it actually does work, 00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:44.780 it's not all 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:45.420 of a sudden like, 00:15:45.620 --> 00:15:45.680 Hey, 00:15:45.880 --> 00:15:48.800 I'm loading up a terabyte worth of model here. 00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:50.000 It's just like I'm doing the 00:15:50.140 --> 00:15:52.980 OpenAI call or the equivalent to some other provider, 00:15:53.140 --> 00:15:53.960 right? Yeah, exactly. 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:55.200 So one thing 00:15:55.250 --> 00:16:01.100 you were alluding to earlier is when you get on like Facebook or Meta's Muse or OpenAIs or 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:01.840 Anthropics, 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:03.100 when you use their agent, 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:03.740 they're, 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:05.640 they're basically sticking you to their models. 00:16:05.890 --> 00:16:09.220 I think OpenAI is starting to figure this out a little bit. And they've decided like, 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:11.000 If people are going to use open models, 00:16:11.310 --> 00:16:15.720 they have a beta or something now where they're actually letting you use other people's models through their system. 00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:18.140 And those are more geared to like open models and stuff. 00:16:18.740 --> 00:16:25.080 What I started off with was because I didn't want to pay for token because these things can eat millions of tokens some days on weird tangents. 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.920 So I use Kimi code as kind of one of my go tos. 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:30.340 Ollama is another service that I like, 00:16:30.660 --> 00:16:33.140 and it has all kinds of open models on it. 00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:37.420 I know there's kind of like differing opinions about Ollama because of their open source roots. 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.800 I think there was a fork from another project at some time. 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:40.860 Some people like them. 00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:41.960 Some people don't like them. 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:45.420 I like the utility of being able to pay a set fee like 20 bucks a month. 00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:46.180 And basically, 00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:48.360 you've got hundreds of models you can pick from. 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.140 It's probably dozens of models you can pick from. 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:50.620 And also, 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:52.060 Ollama, you can run locally. 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:56.320 If you do run local, I think there's probably some other open source servers that are faster. 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:01.380 I just kind of find it to be the Swiss army knife of letting you run most models locally, 00:17:01.540 --> 00:17:02.320 which is pretty cool. 00:17:02.640 --> 00:17:03.700 Are you running Ollama local? 00:17:03.920 --> 00:17:04.660 Is that your angle? 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:06.420 My angle is Ollama. 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:07.020 Well, 00:17:07.220 --> 00:17:11.839 originally I started out plugging it into OpenAI and it was just going through my credits too quickly. 00:17:12.030 --> 00:17:14.339 So I'm like, this is not, this is not good.

00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:14.959 Not going to work. 00:17:15.060 --> 00:17:16.500 So I need to find something else. 00:17:16.589 --> 00:17:19.540 And I looked into Olama for local models. 00:17:19.970 --> 00:17:21.459 And then I think I talked to you actually. 00:17:21.589 --> 00:17:23.720 And you're like, do you know they can run cloud models? 00:17:23.770 --> 00:17:24.819 I'm like, they can do what? 00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:27.400 So if you go over to olama.com, go to models, 00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:28.600 you can click cloud. 00:17:28.800 --> 00:17:31.180 It'll show you that you can run DeepSeq Flash 4, 00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:33.360 GLM 5.3, 00:17:33.520 --> 00:17:34.580 GLM 5.3 Flash. 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.440 And as you scroll through, you can also see some interesting things like, for example, 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:42.900 DeepSeq 4.1 Flash supports vision and tools and thinking, 00:17:43.420 --> 00:17:46.780 whereas GLM 5.3 is a better writing, 00:17:47.140 --> 00:17:48.720 sort of conversational type of one. 00:17:48.980 --> 00:17:50.020 But it doesn't support vision, 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:50.660 for example. 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.040 But its Flash one does. 00:17:53.380 --> 00:17:59.340 And this is important because if you give your Hermes or whatever a job to do, 00:17:59.540 --> 00:18:02.600 it needs to look at something like a screenshot or anything. 00:18:03.080 --> 00:18:05.300 And you assigned it the 5.3 version. 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:06.080 It couldn't do that, 00:18:06.260 --> 00:18:06.380 right? 00:18:06.520 --> 00:18:08.620 But it could do if you assigned it the 5.3 Flash. 00:18:09.100 --> 00:18:12.080 Anyway, so long story short, I'm running the cloud ones over here. 00:18:12.540 --> 00:18:13.160 Am I logged in? 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:13.580 Oh, I am. 00:18:13.780 --> 00:18:15.220 And I go to my usage. 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:17.000 And let's see. 00:18:17.260 --> 00:18:18.780 In the last four hours, 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.740 I've used 17% of my $20. 00:18:21.100 --> 00:18:22.500 And in two days, 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.260 I've used just over 10% of my monthly. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.120 But you can see down here that the models I've used, 00:18:28.460 --> 00:18:30.260 a little bit of the Nemetron, 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:31.540 a little Kimmy K3, 00:18:32.040 --> 00:18:33.800 a lot of GLM53 flash. 00:18:34.060 --> 00:18:35.900 That's pretty much what powers my stuff, 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.720 unless I need it to be a little bit better at writing 00:18:37.860 --> 00:18:39.080 than I use GLM53. 00:18:39.540 --> 00:18:39.980 That's my world. 00:18:40.020 --> 00:18:40.340 How about you? 00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:43.900 I haven't been using a Lama as much, 00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:45.580 but that Kimmy K3 model, 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:47.680 I use the coding version of it a lot. 00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:50.140 And I just bought a subscription from them to try it out. 00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:52.700 I think they were two or

three weeks ahead maybe 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:54.700 of seeing a llama get it. 00:18:55.600 --> 00:18:57.660 One thing I do like, if you don't mind going back to models 00:18:58.090 --> 00:19:01.200 in the same way you were doing that cloud filter, 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:03.540 go to popular and drop down on new. 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:05.600 This is like of the boring, 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:07.480 oh, see there's a new one even. 00:19:07.620 --> 00:19:08.160 Yeah, I just noted. 00:19:08.520 --> 00:19:08.880 This is, yeah, 00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:10.700 and we got multiple new ones. 00:19:10.710 --> 00:19:11.100 Look at this. 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:13.980 Three or four that came out the last day or so, 16 hours. 00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:15.560 When everybody else has a life, 00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:17.520 I'm just going here once a day or twice a day 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.120 and then checking to see what's new. 00:19:19.260 --> 00:19:21.420 because I do like pulling the new models down. 00:19:21.820 --> 00:19:22.960 Those vision models are great, 00:19:23.110 --> 00:19:23.600 by the way. 00:19:23.800 --> 00:19:24.820 A lot of them run local. 00:19:25.250 --> 00:19:27.700 And so I've gone through like old family photos and stuff. 00:19:28.070 --> 00:19:29.620 And it was always good enough to say like, 00:19:29.870 --> 00:19:31.300 you know, flag that there's a dog, 00:19:31.760 --> 00:19:32.460 look for the setting, 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:34.180 like is this Thanksgiving or Christmas? 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:35.700 Some of that stuff you can get from the dates, 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:37.020 but you can get pretty accurate 00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:38.280 by just having it count 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:40.260 like the number of people in the photos and stuff. 00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:41.940 Those tools I think are important. 00:19:41.990 --> 00:19:44.100 I don't really care about the thinking aspect of the models 00:19:44.300 --> 00:19:46.360 because that's just all one shot to me anyways. 00:19:46.820 --> 00:19:49.220 But I think the tool calls are great 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:53.780 that kind of tells you that it's able to go and run other applications and other tool calls like 00:19:54.020 --> 00:19:58.260 if you want to have it do transcriptions or you want to give it other jobs to do that ability or 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:03.540 running mcp which lets it go connect to a remote server or local server and have a list of like 00:20:03.820 --> 00:20:08.960 possible things that can run for you and actions it can do then i like i like the tool call models 00:20:09.320 --> 00:20:13.940 for a long time they they didn't have that feature and so it was almost just like a trivia machine 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.440 where you'd ask it like i don't know how far is it from kansas to portland or something then it 00:20:18.360 --> 00:20:19.140 We'll just make up a number, 00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:19.520 you know? 00:20:20.040 --> 00:20:20.140 Right. 00:20:20.560 --> 00:20:20.620 Yeah. 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:22.320 So now in your Hermes, what could you do? 00:20:22.540 --> 00:20:28.100 You could probably integrate it with either some sort of mapping MCP or a mapping API. 00:20:28.860 --> 00:20:31.880 And probably you can connect it to so many different things. 00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:36.760 Like mine is connected to my Google contacts and other workspaces and emails. 00:20:37.020 --> 00:20:38.300 So it could like maybe say, 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.900 you could say something like, how far is it from Jeff's to 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:41.880 Michael's or vice versa? 00:20:41.980 --> 00:20:44.620 And it would go, go look you up in contacts and get your address, 00:20:45.040 --> 00:20:46.020 plug it into the MCP. 00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:46.320 Right. 00:20:46.360 --> 00:20:47.520 And it would just like work it out. 00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:48.000 It's really. 00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:53.280 really pretty neat how that works yeah and mcp is kind of like superpowers for these models or these 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:58.900 agents like most of the services i subscribe to anymore i think google finally released an mcp the 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:03.840 other day or at least they started leaking stuff to GitHub um just the ability to go you know it's 00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:08.800 basically giving your model access in a secure way so that you don't have to go and just say 00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:15.360 here's my cloud flare um api key save this in plain text markdown they'll go do stuff like it 00:21:15.280 --> 00:21:19.380 actually kind of makes them good because they can get a list of like here are things I'm able to do 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:25.120 on behalf of Jeff and Michael here's the read-only stuff I can see here's the right access I can have 00:21:25.460 --> 00:21:30.680 last night I was having to update some DNS settings for me just because Cloudflare supports MCP 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:35.820 like it's just so wild like things that used to take a while you can just give them this MCP as 00:21:35.820 --> 00:21:40.840 an access in the Django world there's a great library called Django MCPX and I've started 00:21:40.860 --> 00:21:42.540 building that in all my side projects. 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:46.780 So I can have like Hermes once a day or ChatGPT on demand. 00:21:47.030 --> 00:21:47.660 I can say, 00:21:47.850 --> 00:21:52.240 go look on Django TV and let me know if there's a new video or go approve a job on the 00:21:52.340 --> 00:21:52.740 job board. 00:21:53.040 --> 00:21:56.700 It just completely changes how I'm able to access it. Things you would use to just go into 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.200 the website and go into like build an admin to do. 00:21:59.410 --> 00:22:00.580 You can just talk through it. 00:22:00.860 --> 00:22:01.220 Say like, 00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:02.140 pay for the newsletter, 00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:06.380 show me the last five pieces of news about Django or what's neat. 00:22:06.740

--> 00:22:10.120 And I just love that ability to be able to like connect the dots like that. 00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:10.880 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:22:11.170 --> 00:22:11.720 It really is. 00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:12.700 What if we want to go with this? 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:13.960 One way, 00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:15.020 one area I think 00:22:15.020 --> 00:22:16.920 is different in a good way, 00:22:17.260 --> 00:22:18.300 mostly a good way, 00:22:18.700 --> 00:22:19.300 is always trade-offs. 00:22:19.510 --> 00:22:20.420 One thing that I think is 00:22:20.470 --> 00:22:26.900 better in a good way than a lot of like, if you ask Plod to do something or ChatGPT to do something, 00:22:27.360 --> 00:22:28.700 everyone's probably familiar with, 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:29.000 oh, 00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:32.620 Reddit won't let me pull that page because they block 00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:38.900 Anthropic or I can't access this because it's a file on your hard drive or whatever, 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:39.220 right? 00:22:39.500 --> 00:22:42.340 All of this stuff runs wherever you host it. 00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:46.500 And so my Mac mini is sitting on my fiber network and it's running a Docker container. 00:22:46.750 --> 00:22:48.040 So when I ask it to do something, 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.680 it looks like a residential IP address that's going somewhere. 00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:53.320 And if I tell it to use Google Chrome, 00:22:53.580 --> 00:22:57.040 it literally just launches Google Chrome and it goes and it does the thing. 00:22:57.400 --> 00:22:59.100 And it looks like a regular web browser. 00:22:59.330 --> 00:23:08.960 So I find that these are a little more able to access different information on your behalf than if you'd asked the exact same question to even a smarter model like Opus or Astra. 00:23:09.280 --> 00:23:10.900 Yeah, they have an incredible kind of, 00:23:11.090 --> 00:23:12.980 there used to be like this gap of, 00:23:13.260 --> 00:23:13.440 you know, 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.720 can it use curl or can it use something to access a website? 00:23:17.260 --> 00:23:26.200 And the first time you run something like Hermes or OpenClaw and you see it open Chrome or Firefox and you see the URL pop in and you actually see it drive it, it's just wild. 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.420 It's like, oh, it's like there's a human here, but it's not a human. 00:23:28.670 --> 00:23:30.760 You know, like it's actually doing the same stuff. 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:33.120 Mine has its own profile as well. 00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:38.700 And then that way if we're ever on the same browser and I changed the color of the desktop theme to be like bright red. 00:23:39.120 --> 00:23:42.720 And so that way it's very obvious if it was driving something or not. 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.340 By default, a lot of them will run in headless mode where you don't see it pop up. 00:23:46.520 --> 00:23:47.760 I prefer to actually see it. 00:23:48.020 --> 00:23:52.440 And it's just kind of interesting to see what work it's done when you ask it to do stuff. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.020 But the fact that it's not trying to emulate a website with curl or a web browser with curl, 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:58.860 it's just actually driving real tools. 00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:01.860 I've got a friend even that was trying to do some stuff with Macs. 00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:03.680 Sorry, like an Apple Mac. 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:08.600 And he ended up noticing that before they were good at being able to drive screens, 00:24:09.020 --> 00:24:11.300 Like it's pretty good at running Chrome because it knows how to talk to Chrome. 00:24:11.760 --> 00:24:13.280 Chrome makes that pretty easy to do. 00:24:13.370 --> 00:24:15.340 Like there's a development API for it and straightforward. 00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:20.280 But what's a little harder to do though was the, and I'm forgetting the name of it, but 00:24:20.500 --> 00:24:22.200 actually having to move the mouse and keyboard around. 00:24:22.610 --> 00:24:23.380 But for some reason, 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:24.780 if you had it used VNC. 00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:25.740 Accessibility or something like that? 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:28.420 Yeah, they're really good at driving like VNC. 00:24:28.630 --> 00:24:32.880 So like it was actually better to drive VNC connected to a Mac than it was to actually 00:24:33.060 --> 00:24:34.260 be on the Mac and drive it. 00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:37.580 And I think they've fixed all that now, but it was just fascinating watching it move and 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:38.100 do stuff. 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:39.840 I'm like, man, I wish I could do that on my machine. 00:24:40.300 --> 00:24:41.360 But that's really cool. 00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:42.240 It's super wild. 00:24:42.330 --> 00:24:47.500 I think one area I want to explore with you and see how you're doing this is these things 00:24:47.610 --> 00:24:53.960 come out of the box and they're not much different than a ChatGPT or quad or whatever. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.100 And it really matters what model you hook up to it, right? 00:24:57.130 --> 00:25:01.920 If you hook up OpenAI Sol to it, well, you get a very similar experience to that. 00:25:02.040 --> 00:25:03.860 But if you hook up BLM 5.3 Flash, 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:05.680 it's good, but different, 00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:06.180 right? 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:11.520 But then you can start to build with it and personalize it and so on, right? 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:16.520 And so one of the really eye-opening experiences I had was I literally sat down, 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.100 I voice typed into my phone to my Hermes, 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:24.800 and 15 minutes later I had built this whole calendar management system 00:25:25.360 --> 00:25:29.840 that worked with my daughter sends me messages about when she needs to reserve the car 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.600 because she has a job she's got to drive at. 00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:34.240 And so she'd

send me these invites, but it blocked my calendar. 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.080 And so I talked to it for a bit. 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:42.000 And it built this whole scheduled automation and skills and Python files and all these things that will say, 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:42.600 like, set me, 00:25:42.830 --> 00:25:44.860 you know, mark me as free again on those times. 00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:47.840 So that automated scheduling stuff doesn't say you're busy. 00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:48.460 Like, no, I'm not. 00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:49.100 My daughter's busy. 00:25:49.540 --> 00:25:51.660 I don't need my car to be on the computer and so on. 00:25:51.850 --> 00:25:54.920 So this way of like talking to it and just programming it, you know, 00:25:55.300 --> 00:25:56.280 in sort of air quotes, 00:25:56.460 --> 00:25:56.640 you know? 00:25:56.840 --> 00:25:57.060 Yeah. 00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:59.840 Is it like just from your experience or what's the, 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:00.560 what's your. 00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:00.820 Yeah. 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:01.380 Well, I mean, 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.940 I don't typically sit down and program anything into it. 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.520 I just talk to it and it builds itself and it evolves itself. 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:09.060 And it's like, 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:16.220 if you teach it something and you say, okay, connect my contacts and my calendar and this and that and use this Python script, 00:26:16.360 --> 00:26:17.860 and it runs into a problem because, 00:26:18.020 --> 00:26:18.680 oh, I had a problem. 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:19.500 Let me fix that. 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:20.360 Okay, now I'm fixed. 00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:21.020 I'm going to keep going. 00:26:21.140 --> 00:26:22.860 And the next time it won't have that problem anymore. 00:26:23.260 --> 00:26:25.800 It's just really a wild way of developing something, 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:26.080 right? 00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:27.640 And there's not much else like it. 00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:28.980 Like if you do it with ChatGPT, 00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:31.320 it kind of every session is a new one. 00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:32.100 Whereas this, 00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:33.300 it iterates. 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:34.320 I think, 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:40.000 too, what you're getting at is it has a memory and its ability to remember what you did yesterday. 00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:43.860 That's not how like ChatGPT, that's not how Claude was built. 00:26:44.110 --> 00:26:47.260 And they've slowly been trying to add memory to it, but it's very bolted on. 00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:51.020 So like earlier today, Michael has shown me this memory system that he found. 00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:53.060 And it's a way that you can link. 00:26:53.090 --> 00:26:58.220 I assume you can link other Hermes together using the same knowledge and how they build stuff up. 00:26:58.560 --> 00:27:01.460 These were kind of built like the movie called Memento. 00:27:01.840 --> 00:27:04.340

The guy tattoos some memory on his arm every day. 00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:05.400 So when he wakes up, 00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:07.700 then he remembers he can read that as context. 00:27:08.020 --> 00:27:10.220 These things are just full of these context nuggets. 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:12.280 And part of it too is like your skills. 00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:14.240 As you build a skill to do something, 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:19.160 they're very good at knowing when to use a similar skill to accomplish some other part of it. 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:23.540 One example I had was I was taking my kids to visit the grandparents one time. 00:27:23.780 --> 00:27:24.460 Three hour drive, 00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:27.340 we try to meet halfway in between here in Missouri, 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:28.000 Southwest Missouri. 00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:31.220 And so when I got to the meeting place, 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:32.840 I was filling my car up with gas. 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:35.480 A friend of mine sent me an article that was like a 30-minute read. 00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:36.460 And I'm like, ah, 00:27:36.620 --> 00:27:37.300 perfect time. 00:27:37.340 --> 00:27:40.040 I got 90 minutes to drive back to Lawrence, 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:40.480 Kansas. 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.140 I really want to hear that. 00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:43.840 So I didn't have any of the skills built. 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.540 But I did have like a transcription skill. 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.420 I already had like a text-to-voice skill set. 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.480 So I grabbed the article. 00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:52.540 I sent it to my Hermes. 00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:54.940 And I said, can you turn this into an audio file for me? 00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:57.320 And because it had enough of the skills to fill it in, 00:27:57.600 --> 00:28:00.300 It took about five or 10 minutes and it sent me back a link to the file. 00:28:00.590 --> 00:28:02.060 And I'm like, this is just incredible. 00:28:02.210 --> 00:28:06.360 And the voice was good because I'd already found like a Kokoro model or something that's a local, 00:28:06.620 --> 00:28:08.060 easy to run model. 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.440 And so it sent me back like a good enough, but it was also making mistakes. 00:28:11.570 --> 00:28:12.240 Like it was doing, 00:28:12.560 --> 00:28:13.720 you know, hey, here's this website, 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:18.420 HTTP colon slash slash hindsight dot vectorize dot IO, 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:18.840 right? 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.820 Like it's giving me the full and I'm like, well, that sucks. 00:28:21.140 --> 00:28:24.180 Why don't you make another pass at it and go ahead and clean all that stuff up? 00:28:24.370 --> 00:28:26.280 And I'm driving so I can't read while I'm driving. 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.540 So I'm using the voice mode on my phone over Telegram to tell it what I wanted it to fix. 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:32.300 It's taking that voice file, 00:28:32.560 --> 00:28:33.300 changing

it to text. 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:36.140 So, you know, five minutes later, it sends me one back that's cleaned up. 00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:37.360 And I'm like, hey, that's awesome. 00:28:37.980 --> 00:28:41.260 One thing I learned from Marietta, because I thought about making my agent's blog. 00:28:42.060 --> 00:28:44.800 And Marietta had a blog post a while back, we'll have to find. 00:28:45.090 --> 00:28:49.520 That was basically about how she's making her or how her like bought her agent's blog. 00:28:50.040 --> 00:28:51.420 And it posts all the skills publicly. 00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:53.620 And I was right on the edge of doing that. 00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:55.440 So I went ahead and made my Hermes. 00:28:55.520 --> 00:28:56.560 I gave it a blog too. 00:28:56.950 --> 00:28:59.940 And so it uses Hugo and it just publishes these files. 00:29:00.330 --> 00:29:02.060 And so every day I'll send it a couple articles 00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:05.800 and I'm like, I want you to transcribe this, 00:29:06.030 --> 00:29:07.340 which puts it into Obsidian 00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:08.600 just so I have a record of it. 00:29:08.770 --> 00:29:09.780 And that's like my bookmark. 00:29:10.070 --> 00:29:11.160 And then it'll write about it. 00:29:11.350 --> 00:29:12.260 And so a couple of weeks ago, 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:14.540 like there was a new model called Jeb, J-E-B. 00:29:15.020 --> 00:29:17.580 And I probably posted like 40 or 50 links 00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:18.520 to it over a few days. 00:29:18.870 --> 00:29:19.960 And then I asked it to like, 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:20.340 you know, 00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:21.720 do some research on it. 00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:24.339 And as it started kind of pulling data together 00:29:24.340 --> 00:29:25.740 when it was writing articles, 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:28.620 it was starting to weave facts that it had already kind of learned 00:29:28.780 --> 00:29:31.000 and talked about into like these really nice posts for me. 00:29:31.400 --> 00:29:33.920 Pydantic AI is my favorite Python library 00:29:34.020 --> 00:29:34.840 for writing agents. 00:29:35.620 --> 00:29:37.500 Just when they finally posted, I say finally, 00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:39.660 they posted a blog post about how to 00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:43.640 use Jev with it or as part of their docs rather. I think that's before they built the blog post. 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:48.000 I found the documentation to it, copied the page, sent it to my hermies and asked it to, 00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:52.500 hey, write an article for me that shows me exactly how to use this with Pydantic AI. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:56.280 Two minutes later, it sends me back the URL to the post. 00:29:56.540 --> 00:29:58.260 And I'm like, this is just amazing tech. 00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:00.520 For voice mode, I did something similar too, 00:30:01.060 --> 00:30:01.480 where I thought, 00:30:01.800 --> 00:30:02.780 why don't I just have it give me, 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.340 like I just want the audio feed, 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:06.120 but it's kind of a pain to get an audio file 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:07.500 while you're on your phone. 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:09.440 Like, you know, you're pulling it through Telegram 00:30:09.620 --> 00:30:10.880 and that might open up VLC 00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:13.060 or it won't know what app to pull it up in. 00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:15.020 There will be no like history progression 00:30:15.520 --> 00:30:15.600 because, 00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:17.480 you know, these applications aren't really built 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.220 to like resume where you're at in an audio file. 00:30:20.560 --> 00:30:21.060 So then I thought, 00:30:21.260 --> 00:30:21.660 why don't you just, 00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:23.380 since you're already building a website for me, 00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:24.560 when I ask you to podcast, 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:26.300 just go ahead and publish a podcast feed. 00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:27.780 I don't want you to narrate it 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:28.840 like it's Michael or anything. 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.260 I just want you to give me the audio, 00:30:30.620 --> 00:30:31.660 clean it up like you did before. 00:30:32.210 --> 00:30:35.060 And so now it gives me these really good audio feeds 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.500 and I can just pull it up in my Overcast app. 00:30:38.540 --> 00:30:40.660 Yeah, it just gives you an RSS feed? 00:30:40.870 --> 00:30:41.380 And you just add it as a private. 00:30:41.380 --> 00:30:42.960 So I get an RSS feed of my own, 00:30:43.310 --> 00:30:44.740 you know, like stuff I want to listen to. 00:30:44.860 --> 00:30:46.440 And mostly it's just articles that are too long. 00:30:46.780 --> 00:30:48.120 And as I'm driving the kids along, 00:30:48.280 --> 00:30:48.960 they don't want to hear it. 00:30:49.060 --> 00:30:50.200 But once I drop them off from school, 00:30:50.290 --> 00:30:51.600 I can just turn that on and listen to it. 00:30:51.820 --> 00:30:56.800 It's just the wildest technology to be able to glue those things together without having the right code to do it. 00:30:56.940 --> 00:30:57.680 Yeah, that's really awesome. 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:03.520 I mean, that's the kind of thing that you get from these really weird agents is you can just talk to them for a while. 00:31:03.750 --> 00:31:04.640 And they layer on like, 00:31:04.800 --> 00:31:08.900 well, OK, I do know how to do audio from text and I do know how to build a website. 00:31:09.310 --> 00:31:10.060 And you're like, 00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:10.400 OK, 00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:13.960 well, then it's very easy for me to just build you an RSS feed. 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.720 Now you have your own podcast because and it just keeps learning. 00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:17.920 And just out of curiosity, 00:31:18.300 --> 00:31:19.180 I was just like thinking, 00:31:19.460 --> 00:31:20.700 you know, how this is different to 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:22.940 say co-work or something like that. 00:31:23.180

--> 00:31:25.260 So I have a thing that backs up my Hermes. 00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:27.600 So it like kind of exports it out of the Docker container, 00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:28.820 zips it, puts it in somewhere 00:31:29.020 --> 00:31:29.180 encrypted, 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:29.640 all that. 00:31:29.780 --> 00:31:31.700 But let me see if I can get it to tell me. 00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:32.180 Yeah, it has. 00:31:32.520 --> 00:31:33.040 When it started, 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.340 it had just a couple of files, 00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:36.140 like a few settings and so on. 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:36.880 And after, 00:31:37.280 --> 00:31:38.360 I don't know, I've had it for a few months. 00:31:38.600 --> 00:31:40.160 It's 16,000 files, 00:31:40.800 --> 00:31:42.580 780 megs zipped. 00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:43.980 I don't know how big it is unzipped. 00:31:44.280 --> 00:31:47.840 So that's a lot of stuff that it's collecting and learning. 00:31:48.340 --> 00:31:51.500 And every time you work with it, it has all of that at its disposal, 00:31:51.740 --> 00:31:51.840 right? 00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:54.740 All the lessons it's learned, all of its memory, 00:31:55.060 --> 00:31:55.820 but all of its tools. 00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:59.000 It's got hundreds of little utilities for it. 00:31:59.140 --> 00:32:01.720 I use a command line tool called, I think it's called QMD. 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:03.720 I'll find it for you. 00:32:03.780 --> 00:32:06.740 But it basically is like a rag tool that you can use. 00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:11.860 And it's just a tool that it runs your markdown files through it. 00:32:12.100 --> 00:32:13.340 It creates like a rag index. 00:32:13.840 --> 00:32:16.380 And so I have mine and blogging and some of my tools. 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:18.160 I have it run everything through QMD. 00:32:18.560 --> 00:32:22.160 And then that kind of gives it that rag to pull the right context out of stuff. 00:32:22.520 --> 00:32:23.140 It's pretty good. 00:32:23.180 --> 00:32:25.560 It might be something to play around with if you don't have rags set up. 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.720 Yeah, I definitely don't. 00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:28.440 So query markdown documents. 00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:31.460 Well, I have a lot of markdown documents and I have a lot of questions. 00:32:31.600 --> 00:32:32.680 So I'm very excited about this. 00:32:32.760 --> 00:32:33.060 This is cool. 00:32:33.320 --> 00:32:36.440 You can give it to your Hermes and tell it to like, can you use this, 00:32:36.620 --> 00:32:37.380 figure out how to use it. 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:38.360 And it's wild. 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:39.460 Yeah, that's super cool. 00:32:39.860 --> 00:32:41.840 I think for me as a developer, 00:32:42.950 --> 00:32:43.300 I built, 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:43.920 gosh, 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.020 20 some years I've been writing Python code. 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:53.480 And I know that there's a lot of angst and there's a lot of the things in AI that people 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:54.040 talk about. 00:32:54.050 --> 00:32:57.240 I think this is the least popular amongst people who don't like AI. 00:32:58.120 --> 00:33:02.560 But for me, it really opened my eyes to kind of a new direction and new ways to solve problems, 00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:04.320 which I wouldn't have had otherwise. 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.300 It's not that it's an always on agent. 00:33:07.620 --> 00:33:08.900 The application's always on, 00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:13.040 but having the ability to wake up and just go do things and follow up and check stuff. 00:33:13.560 --> 00:33:15.500 I know you can use task managers. 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:16.920 You could use Celery. 00:33:17.080 --> 00:33:20.700 You could use many different libraries that kind of do this in your code. 00:33:20.860 --> 00:33:25.200 But I found that a couple of issues or a couple of problems that have been historically hard to solve, 00:33:25.520 --> 00:33:28.980 like I'll have scheduled tasks or something that run in production. 00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:34.799 And for my side projects and stuff, there's a lot of times that trying to set my local environment up 00:33:34.820 --> 00:33:36.280 and keeping track of those tasks 00:33:36.510 --> 00:33:38.900 because I might go into a database in production 00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:40.220 and I might change a schedule 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:42.320 and I might kind of tweak things over time. 00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:45.260 And then it's really easy to not get those pulled back down 00:33:45.530 --> 00:33:47.360 in a way that like gets committed into code. 00:33:47.430 --> 00:33:49.620 And you try to like make some of those changes in code, 00:33:49.630 --> 00:33:50.760 but sometimes if something's wrong, 00:33:50.810 --> 00:33:51.800 I just need to get on my phone, 00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:53.540 hop into an admin and change that schedule. 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:56.200 And so one of the things I realized 00:33:56.520 --> 00:33:58.680 is trying to keep those in sync, it just sucks. 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:00.580 It's not that it's a hard problem, it's just tedious. 00:34:00.910 --> 00:34:02.000 And there's just a lot of options. 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:06.520 And so Hermes kind of opened my eyes or OpenClaw itself opened my eyes up to like, 00:34:06.770 --> 00:34:07.120 why am I 00:34:07.250 --> 00:34:08.200 making this so hard? 00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:13.300 Why don't I just make like a page in my website that I can just download a schedule.markdown 00:34:13.540 --> 00:34:16.580 file and it just writes out what the schedules are in that file. 00:34:16.830 --> 00:34:18.159 Then I download it on my machine. 00:34:18.500 --> 00:34:21.260 I can just drag and drop that into my local machine. 00:34:21.620 --> 00:34:25.060 The schedule just gets picked up automatically because I've got an agent that just reads 00:34:25.220 --> 00:34:25.300 it. 00:34:25.330 --> 00:34:26.260 It syncs it locally. 00:34:26.629 --> 00:34:30.820 And then I can

just do edits with it or I can drag and drop it from local back up to 00:34:30.980 --> 00:34:31.159 production. 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.159 It's just a different, it's just a simple context. 00:34:34.210 --> 00:34:36.460 I would never, to me, that would have been over engineering before. 00:34:37.020 --> 00:34:41.000 And now it's a two minute solution that actually scales better than trying to work out like 00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:45.740 which JSON do I want to admit the schedule via JSON and try to sync things up locally. 00:34:46.120 --> 00:34:47.820 And now I got to manage API keys. 00:34:48.139 --> 00:34:50.800 And really, I just want one file with everything in it. 00:34:50.990 --> 00:34:53.460 I can edit it by hand and sync it up again if I want to. 00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:55.080 So it's a dumb solution. 00:34:55.560 --> 00:34:56.580 It's just very effective though. 00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:58.500 And I just love that about this tech. 00:34:58.680 --> 00:34:59.080 I do too. 00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:02.820 And it is really weird how if you just provided a little bit of data, 00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:04.000 I could just take it and run with it. 00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:05.780 Like Markdown is really good for it, right? 00:35:06.080 --> 00:35:09.800 One of the things I made it do for me that was really helpful is obviously 00:35:11.020 --> 00:35:14.120 this recording as a video and as a podcast episode. 00:35:14.620 --> 00:35:17.980 But the podcast episode is always behind because I got to put show notes 00:35:18.060 --> 00:35:19.740 and transcripts and get it just right. 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.780 And the videos just kind of lay in there. 00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:24.420 And so especially when I was live streaming them continuously, 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:28.740 YouTube would be full of the things just called Talk Python 427. 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:30.640 live stream. I'm like, oh man, 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:32.920 there's hundreds of these videos. I got to go back. 00:35:33.190 --> 00:35:33.580 Now that they 00:35:33.580 --> 00:35:34.420 all have proper titles, 00:35:34.600 --> 00:35:37.060 they have proper links and so on, I want to put those all back. 00:35:37.240 --> 00:35:38.060 So I wanted 00:35:38.130 --> 00:35:41.000 it to go and manage my YouTube channel and it does now. 00:35:41.200 --> 00:35:43.140 So several times a day, it looks and see if 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:45.380 anything's new there. If anything's released on the podcast, 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:47.580 it'll like take all the details through 00:35:47.580 --> 00:35:51.960 the MCP server on Talk Python and stuff. And then it'll re it'll manage on my behalf. 00:35:52.160 --> 00:35:52.500 It'll manage 00:35:52.660 --> 00:35:53.180 the YouTube channel. 00:35:53.380 --> 00:35:53.460 It's, 00:35:53.660 --> 00:35:56.939 it's got all the historical stuff is like completely in sync with 00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:57.680 the latest details, 00:35:57.980 --> 00:35:58.560 which is really cool. 00:35:58.560 --> 00:36:01.840 And I think even if I edit one that's already out there for a while, 00:36:02.120 --> 00:36:02.240 it'll 00:36:02.420 --> 00:36:03.900 discover the differences and fix it. 00:36:04.160 --> 00:36:05.320 But here's why I bring this up, 00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:06.340 not just as an example, 00:36:06.540 --> 00:36:07.100 but I want to get your 00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:10.880 thoughts on this is I open, I said, I want, I want to do this, 00:36:11.240 --> 00:36:11.640 but it's not 00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:16.720 super easy for Hermes to navigate the nuances of the YouTube API. 00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:17.760 So I said, Hermes, 00:36:18.160 --> 00:36:19.680 what do you need to do to do this? 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:21.600 You tell me the actions you need done. 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:22.680 So X, Y, Z, 00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:22.940 right? 00:36:23.300 --> 00:36:23.640 Copy that. 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:24.620 I went over to Claude, I said, 00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:29.920 Claude, I need you to build me a Python package with this interface and as a CLI. 00:36:30.220 --> 00:36:31.160 And Claude built it. 00:36:31.220 --> 00:36:32.800 And so I just give Hermes the wheel. 00:36:33.220 --> 00:36:33.860 And I say, Hermes, 00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:35.040 this is how you talk to YouTube. 00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:37.480 And it's been working the YouTube channel ever since. 00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:38.500 It's incredible, right? 00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:40.680 Because Claude is awesome at managing, 00:36:40.900 --> 00:36:42.440 Claude code is awesome at managing, 00:36:42.680 --> 00:36:45.540 building that thing to exactly the API specification. 00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:50.160 And then I just give it this loose CLI way for Hermes to talk to the YouTube channel about it. 00:36:50.180 --> 00:36:50.760 And off they go. 00:36:51.120 --> 00:36:53.760 I think CLIs are incredibly powerful for this tech. 00:36:54.500 --> 00:36:56.100 I think it's a shame that Anthropic, 00:36:56.520 --> 00:36:57.360 like when we started, 00:36:58.240 --> 00:37:00.520 OpenClaw was really good at driving Claude Code 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:03.080 and they kind of went out of the way to change. 00:37:03.230 --> 00:37:04.820 I think people were just using it 00:37:04.820 --> 00:37:06.340 and it was hitting the resources too much. 00:37:06.700 --> 00:37:09.440 But like you can have Hermes drive Codex now. 00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:11.600 You can't really get away with Claude Code 00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.300 unless they change the rules again. 00:37:13.740 --> 00:37:15.700 But it's wild to me that you can go through 00:37:15.700 --> 00:37:17.280 that exact same step you were doing 00:37:17.570 --> 00:37:19.460 where you tell if Hermes can't do it, 00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:21.800 telling Hermes to have Codex go and solve the problem, 00:37:21.970 --> 00:37:23.520 write the Python script and pick it back 00:37:23.640 --> 00:37:23.760 up. 00:37:24.080 --> 00:37:26.020 We've just never had tech

that can do that. 00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:28.740 And even though this is non-deterministic, 00:37:29.140 --> 00:37:30.580 the way you make it deterministic is, 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:32.640 like I said, take your skill files, 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.720 write the steps you want 00:37:33.720 --> 00:37:34.380 it to do out, 00:37:34.540 --> 00:37:36.180 or even better, write Python code, 00:37:36.420 --> 00:37:39.080 because Python's going to cement that technique 00:37:39.330 --> 00:37:41.180 or submit those steps in actual code. 00:37:41.390 --> 00:37:43.680 And then you're going to save a lot of time by not figuring 00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:45.900 out what are the five steps I need to do. It just says, 00:37:46.150 --> 00:37:48.379 go run this Python on your channel or 00:37:48.540 --> 00:37:50.100 whatever your YouTube domain is, you know? 00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:50.540 Exactly. 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.580 And that you mentioned at the opening, 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.800 you know, how these things are non-deterministic 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:55.780 and how that can be a problem. 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:56.380 Well, 00:37:56.640 --> 00:38:00.440 a really good way to fix that is to make this non-deterministic thing, write a 00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:01.820 Python file that you verify, 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:03.380 and then you just say, run that. 00:38:03.680 --> 00:38:04.120 Exactly. 00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:04.520 Yeah. 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:05.800 I do that a lot, 00:38:06.020 --> 00:38:07.100 especially with CLI tools. 00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:08.880 I write so many CLI tools. 00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:10.140 The last couple of weeks, 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:12.540 MCP, I feel like it's starting to get really good. 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:16.640 And so now I'm kind of skipping a step and I've just writing MCP into my web apps, 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:16.940 but 00:38:16.940 --> 00:38:17.680 I'm a web developer. 00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:19.140 So everything I do is mostly web. 00:38:19.330 --> 00:38:21.820 And so I've really enjoyed kind of taking that step. 00:38:22.050 --> 00:38:25.600 And then that way Hermes can go talk to my website or go do the action for me. 00:38:25.690 --> 00:38:26.520 If that's not an option, 00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:28.180 having it write CLI apps, 00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:31.020 because you can give it like when we were talking transcriptions, 00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:33.380 I like an application called Mac Whisper, 00:38:33.740 --> 00:38:35.520 and they created a really good CLI. 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:36.960 And so that lets them run. 00:38:37.410 --> 00:38:41.300 And by taking that CLI tool and giving it to Hermes or any of these agents, 00:38:41.530 --> 00:38:44.180 the first thing they do is they run the command with like --help. 00:38:44.330 --> 00:38:46.040 And they look at all the options and they're like, 00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:46.220 oh, 00:38:46.500 --> 00:38:47.360 transcribe video, 00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:48.820 cool, I know how this works. 00:38:48.910 --> 00:38:49.320 And speakers, 00:38:49.640 --> 00:38:50.700 oh, you got speaker support. 00:38:51.180 --> 00:38:53.860 So I've had it pick up on new options and features 00:38:54.030 --> 00:38:55.860 that I didn't even know were in these CLI tools 00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:57.920 just because it checks the docs. 00:38:57.970 --> 00:38:59.380 I don't, you know, I'm used to running this. 00:38:59.560 --> 00:39:02.140 If the command works and I know what I want it to do, 00:39:02.660 --> 00:39:03.700 I'm used to the old Linux, 00:39:04.180 --> 00:39:05.020 things just don't change. 00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:07.320 You know, like grep has been grep for 30 years, 00:39:07.620 --> 00:39:08.700 you know, like it just doesn't change much. 00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:10.840 So it's just cool that it picks up on us 00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:12.640 on like the ability to have eight different speakers 00:39:12.810 --> 00:39:14.520 in a podcast and detect it accurately. 00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:18.440 Yeah, and one of the big differences is it'll remember that. 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:23.540 It'll say, I tried to do that, but I learned that the MacWhisperer CLI has this feature. 00:39:23.670 --> 00:39:28.600 So anytime someone else asks me to do this job, I'll use this new feature because I don't need to, 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.420 like, it'll transcode the video automatically rather than, 00:39:31.670 --> 00:39:33.380 like, using FFmpeg or something, right? 00:39:33.600 --> 00:39:35.140 Yeah, it's amazing. 00:39:35.860 --> 00:39:37.140 Let's talk UIs. 00:39:37.250 --> 00:39:39.600 I think UIs are, there's something else. 00:39:39.910 --> 00:39:40.380 You know what I mean? 00:39:40.750 --> 00:39:42.340 So if you go over, 00:39:42.620 --> 00:39:44.920 there's something really weird about Hermes. 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:50.680 it's not entirely clear like how to get it honestly if you go you search for hermes there's hermes 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:55.660 agent but then there's a bunch of other things that are at domains that are like hermes but then 00:39:55.900 --> 00:40:01.120 they're either taken over by the same company eventually or they're trying to impersonate i don't 00:40:01.180 --> 00:40:06.780 know when you if you go if you go to like to their main site and it says it's it says what you want 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:11.199 is you want to get it for your mac os so you download it and it gives you a desktop installer 00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:12.800 like, wait a minute, I have a desktop app. 00:40:12.850 --> 00:40:15.100 I wanted a thing that would constantly run somewhere. 00:40:15.250 --> 00:40:16.980 Like, what is this desktop app thing, right? 00:40:17.220 --> 00:40:17.300 Like, 00:40:17.620 --> 00:40:18.540 talk people through that. 00:40:18.620 --> 00:40:20.060 Like, how do you run it and how do you talk to it? 00:40:20.240 --> 00:40:22.720 I mean, I think that you and I aren't normies. 00:40:23.140 --> 00:40:25.280 And I think for

normies going and saying, 00:40:25.660 --> 00:40:26.220 what's a terminal, 00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:27.120 what's a shell, 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:28.140 what's a console? 00:40:28.660 --> 00:40:28.800 Like, 00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.500 it's just, it doesn't much. 00:40:30.580 --> 00:40:31.480 It's just so confusing. 00:40:31.820 --> 00:40:35.340 So I think Hermes started off as a gob of Python files 00:40:35.680 --> 00:40:35.820 that, 00:40:36.020 --> 00:40:36.120 you know, 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:37.480 we knew how to use. 00:40:37.600 --> 00:40:38.480 We're used to Python. 00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:39.960 I think the original version, 00:40:40.160 --> 00:40:44.640 You might've even did like a pip install or uv installed installed as a Python package running. 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:45.900 And over time, 00:40:46.220 --> 00:40:47.740 they've tried to make the experience nicer. 00:40:48.240 --> 00:40:50.120 So now you can just download it for your desktop. 00:40:50.620 --> 00:40:52.260 You can double click the thing to run it. 00:40:52.460 --> 00:40:55.260 And then you can see it running and it gives you the chat interface. 00:40:56.300 --> 00:40:59.580 These things used to be like OpenClaw was one of the worst applications. 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.700 It took me back to like being a kid from the 90s and trying to put Linux on. 00:41:03.980 --> 00:41:09.960 And it's like, here's two hours of setup just to like get to a terminal and not know how to log into it, right? 00:41:10.260 --> 00:41:19.140 Like it was such a bad experience because you would have to even go and figure out like, how do I configure an application with Slack or Telegram or Discord? 00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:19.920 You know, 00:41:20.140 --> 00:41:21.660 like you were kind of hitting every limb, 00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:23.160 falling out of the tree on the way down. 00:41:23.370 --> 00:41:27.080 And so I think the desktop experience gets you a working Hermes. 00:41:27.350 --> 00:41:31.160 It gets you into a chat interface where you can just do something with it to start. 00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:37.700 And then one thing I realized today or learned today is most of what I'm running is that Hermes agent, the server, 00:41:38.180 --> 00:41:39.820 I'm running that on the Mac mini at my house. 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:41.440 I like using tail scale, 00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:43.400 which is just everybody should use tail scale. 00:41:43.560 --> 00:41:44.900 If you have a phone and a 00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:46.380 computer and you ever want them to talk. 00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:48.720 And so I've got it running at home. 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.580 And then at work, 00:41:49.680 --> 00:41:50.820 I've got the Hermes desktop, 00:41:51.340 --> 00:41:52.240 but I want, because I'm, 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:54.220 I want to talk to my Hermes agent at home. 00:41:54.540 --> 00:41:54.780 So I, 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.660 they've got an option that lets you say, this is the server. 00:41:57.820 --> 00:41:58.560 Here's the username and 00:41:58.880 --> 00:41:59.660 password that I'm using. 00:42:00.080 --> 00:42:01.660 And it lets you self host that. And it just, 00:42:01.820 --> 00:42:02.620 it works magically. 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:03.040 Like you 00:42:03.160 --> 00:42:06.240 have the cloud desktop open or any of these other desktop tools. 00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:07.240 Yeah, that's super neat. 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:07.500 So, 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:08.160 but 00:42:08.060 --> 00:42:11.800 But you got to know that it's not super obvious when you go to the website and it says download 00:42:11.860 --> 00:42:12.240 it for Mac. 00:42:12.740 --> 00:42:12.860 No. 00:42:13.040 --> 00:42:14.460 You end up with just a local app, 00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:14.760 right? 00:42:15.140 --> 00:42:15.340 Exactly. 00:42:15.940 --> 00:42:16.960 And they've got all the weird, 00:42:17.240 --> 00:42:19.520 I don't know why they've overthought even like the website 00:42:19.740 --> 00:42:20.220 would go to it. 00:42:20.300 --> 00:42:22.900 Like what's all the blue and why is it, am I in an aquarium? 00:42:23.300 --> 00:42:24.200 Like what is this? 00:42:25.020 --> 00:42:25.140 Yeah. 00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:25.580 Yeah. 00:42:25.620 --> 00:42:28.880 I only say that because I know people are going to listen to this episode and go, well, 00:42:28.900 --> 00:42:29.380 that sounds cool. 00:42:29.380 --> 00:42:30.100 Let me go check it out. 00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:30.380 They're like, 00:42:30.560 --> 00:42:31.720 I don't even know what I'm getting at. 00:42:31.820 --> 00:42:36.340 So for me, I go to the repo or it, which I go back. 00:42:36.700 --> 00:42:37.500 And in here, 00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:40.740 there's a Docker or Docker compose. 00:42:40.990 --> 00:42:41.320 Here you go. 00:42:41.620 --> 00:42:42.020 Docker compose. 00:42:42.650 --> 00:42:45.560 And just actually have a Docker compose dot overrides 00:42:45.650 --> 00:42:47.580 or whatever the naming convention is 00:42:47.870 --> 00:42:49.920 that I set some things in there and off it goes. 00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:52.600 So that's how I've been running it these days. 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:54.780 It does maybe limit it a little bit. 00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:56.660 Like it can't completely control your Mac. 00:42:57.180 --> 00:42:58.060 But for me, that's okay. 00:42:58.090 --> 00:42:59.440 I just have it installed what it needs. 00:42:59.540 --> 00:43:01.160 So that's why I've got the spare Mac 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:02.900 that I just kind of had it at home anyways, 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:05.399 because I wanted to just be able to set down on a machine 00:43:05.420 --> 00:43:06.540 and it'd be connected to a display. 00:43:07.100 --> 00:43:07.700 So yeah, 00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:09.460 for me, it's like you can just have this machine. 00:43:10.120 --> 00:43:10.740 And otherwise, 00:43:11.100 --> 00:43:12.900 putting it in a container like Docker, 00:43:13.350 --> 00:43:15.120 even putting it in the VPS is the

way to go. 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.440 I just don't encourage people to go spend money 00:43:17.530 --> 00:43:18.580 on these things or run them. 00:43:18.650 --> 00:43:20.500 I think if you know Compose, you know Docker, 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:21.080 try that. 00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:23.920 Honestly, though, the desktop app is probably fine. 00:43:24.180 --> 00:43:24.880 It probably is. 00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:27.320 I'm just not sure what the life cycle of it is 00:43:27.560 --> 00:43:29.660 because one of the things that's cool about Hermes 00:43:29.790 --> 00:43:31.820 is I have stuff that runs 24-7. 00:43:32.130 --> 00:43:34.020 You know, every 15 minutes it does this. 00:43:34.420 --> 00:43:37.600 We'll get into probably the most wild use case that I have for that. 00:43:38.240 --> 00:43:38.320 But, 00:43:38.530 --> 00:43:39.100 you know, it'll check. 00:43:39.390 --> 00:43:44.040 Like it's constantly checking the RSS feed to see if there's something new since the last time it's updated the YouTube channel. 00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:49.640 Then it'll go kick off the YouTube fix improver that if something comes out and it finds there's a video. 00:43:49.900 --> 00:43:51.840 You know, like I just want that stuff to run all the time. 00:43:52.040 --> 00:43:53.660 And if I have a laptop and I shut the screen, 00:43:53.970 --> 00:43:54.800 I don't want it to stop. 00:43:55.020 --> 00:43:56.580 Yeah, I think it runs in the background, 00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:58.220 but we'd have to check on that to see. 00:43:58.520 --> 00:43:58.700 Yeah. 00:43:59.419 --> 00:44:01.760 I think what's so amazing about this tech, 00:44:01.940 --> 00:44:03.380 it's like when you write Python, 00:44:03.720 --> 00:44:04.300 like when I was a kid, 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.320 I used to think about programming felt like little spells, 00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:07.280 like you were doing magic. 00:44:07.700 --> 00:44:08.860 And part of it was like engineering. 00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:11.380 It's like, ooh, I can build robots in my head, these applications. 00:44:11.570 --> 00:44:12.380 They run the steps. 00:44:12.470 --> 00:44:13.960 It all makes, it's all very orderly. 00:44:14.210 --> 00:44:16.480 But Python only does what you tell it to do. 00:44:16.690 --> 00:44:21.440 And this, I feel like, is one of the first inflection points of tech where you can teach 00:44:21.450 --> 00:44:22.300 it a bunch of steps. 00:44:22.700 --> 00:44:26.620 You can kind of tell it what you want it to do without it already knowing how to do it. 00:44:26.980 --> 00:44:31.420 And it can get, it either does it or it gets you to the last mile where you can help it 00:44:31.430 --> 00:44:32.600 with those last little bit of steps. 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:37.260 And it's like, like the create a podcast episode for me so I can listen to my car on the fly, 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:38.100 you know, 00:44:38.260 --> 00:44:42.720 just the agency to be able to work and do that remotely and give me what I need,

00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:43.300 what I want. 00:44:43.560 --> 00:44:44.520 I, I don't know. 00:44:44.590 --> 00:44:46.100 I don't know any other tech that does this. 00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:46.980 It's incredible. 00:44:47.160 --> 00:44:49.180 It could have no capability of a thing. 00:44:49.490 --> 00:44:51.100 You talk to it for a minute and it's, 00:44:51.410 --> 00:44:52.560 it can then do it right. 00:44:52.700 --> 00:44:53.080 Which is, 00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:54.780 and it remembers that it can do it. 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:55.280 That's crazy. 00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:58.780 So one of the things that I did, just there's a bunch of different ways you can talk to it. 00:44:58.840 --> 00:44:59.720 There's the CLI, 00:45:00.080 --> 00:45:02.300 there's a web app that they're improving. 00:45:02.380 --> 00:45:03.500 I think it's called, 00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:05.740 yeah, there it is called Hermes web UI, 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.780 which is weird that there's 00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:10.600 not a single screenshot of the UI with the whole project. 00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:11.720 It's called the UI, 00:45:12.020 --> 00:45:12.580 but you know, whatever. 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:15.520 Is this like a third party thing and not news, I assume? 00:45:15.740 --> 00:45:15.900 Yeah. 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:16.040 See, 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:16.940 like, that's what I thought. 00:45:17.060 --> 00:45:17.900 But then you go here. 00:45:19.340 --> 00:45:19.480 No, 00:45:19.640 --> 00:45:21.520 this is an independent community project. 00:45:21.740 --> 00:45:22.100 Yes, exactly. 00:45:22.620 --> 00:45:24.800 But the URL is gethermes.ai. 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:25.440 Like that's how, 00:45:25.660 --> 00:45:28.140 that's why it's so confusing because you search that these other things 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.400 come up and I'm like, why is it so weird on that? 00:45:30.580 --> 00:45:31.720 Because I'll tell you why. 00:45:31.740 --> 00:45:35.880 It's because the nose research company that built Hermes, they tried to do something 00:45:36.130 --> 00:45:36.220 different, 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:38.080 but I feel like they're just a bunch of researchers. 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:39.600 They're not product people, 00:45:40.020 --> 00:45:40.200 you know? 00:45:40.210 --> 00:45:41.320 So like, we don't really need the UI. 00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:41.900 Like we'll, 00:45:42.080 --> 00:45:42.960 we'll figure that out later. 00:45:43.080 --> 00:45:44.740 If you're like, we're using it, you know, like, 00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:45.740 wait, how are you using it? 00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:46.080 Funny. 00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:50.560 But so one of the things I think maybe is worth talking about a little bit that I thought 00:45:50.590 --> 00:45:52.200 was maintaining it over time. 00:45:52.650 --> 00:45:53.240 I found that, 00:45:53.540 --> 00:45:53.760 you know, 00:45:54.040 --> 00:45:54.920 if you look at, 00:45:55.270 --> 00:45:55.360 uh, 00:45:55.660 --> 00:45:57.100 if you go to the

Git repo for this thing, 00:45:57.340 --> 00:45:58.040 it's by the way, 00:45:58.340 --> 00:46:00.140 far more popular than any Python thing. 00:46:00.190 --> 00:46:01.380 I know it, by the way. 00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:02.400 It's also is Python, 00:46:02.600 --> 00:46:02.660 right? 00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:03.860 That's, that's also interesting. 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.100 It is itself built in Python, 00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:07.460 even though that's not necessarily super germane. 00:46:07.560 --> 00:46:08.340 It's still interesting, 00:46:08.720 --> 00:46:11.340 but it has 252,000 stars, 00:46:11.860 --> 00:46:13.300 54,000 forks. 00:46:13.720 --> 00:46:14.260 That's crazy. 00:46:14.610 --> 00:46:19.740 I think it probably has more forks than the most popular Python applications have total 00:46:19.940 --> 00:46:20.040 stars. 00:46:20.420 --> 00:46:21.860 So that is a wild deflection point. 00:46:22.060 --> 00:46:23.080 That is a really wild. 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:27.340 If you come down to the releases, this is where I think it gets pretty wild. 00:46:28.020 --> 00:46:33.240 say yeah so there was uh 21.5 let's just say so people can reference it right a couple weeks ago 00:46:33.240 --> 00:46:42.800 came out on september and it had 460 prs not commits prs i think yeah 1 600 commits 4 800 00:46:43.180 --> 00:46:50.920 changed files 475 closed issues that's 2 21.5 there was 21.4 that was like three days before 00:46:51.120 --> 00:47:00.440 three days before it so when you say it had 5,000 commits and um 1800 merge prs yeah and 400 460 00:47:00.560 --> 00:47:06.480 merge prs that's for three days yeah the change of this thing is insane and so if you want a new 00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:11.460 version it might sound like well i just swap out the app but like it's internally it's little pieces 00:47:12.140 --> 00:47:17.600 used to depend on how it was before right it's capabilities before and maybe even little bits of 00:47:17.540 --> 00:47:19.020 API or environmental bits. 00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:22.020 And I found every now and then it can kind of drift and something 00:47:22.180 --> 00:47:23.680 doesn't quite work right. What do you think? 00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:24.620 That's really what, 00:47:25.120 --> 00:47:25.480 strangely enough, 00:47:25.640 --> 00:47:25.920 Fermi's 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:30.080 has been very stable for me. And I do think that there's some drift and there's some rot that can 00:47:30.240 --> 00:47:31.020 happen over time. 00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:35.000 And I think we're still trying to learn because you're having to do stuff day 00:47:35.180 --> 00:47:35.680 after day. 00:47:35.980 --> 00:47:39.660 And especially if it's waking up every 15 minutes and it's trying to keep a memory, 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.380 I do think that it's easy to get inundated with logs and extra context that maybe doesn't matter. 00:47:46.780 --> 00:47:49.820 And so I think we're kind of learning that these tasks, you don't really need to remember, 00:47:49.970 --> 00:47:50.800 you just need to do. 00:47:51.050 --> 00:47:53.020 And it's kind of like we're figuring those patterns out. 00:47:53.380 --> 00:47:58.060 With OpenClaw, the thing that would kill me is that I would try to update it like a couple 00:47:58.160 --> 00:48:01.040 times a week because I'm excited that there's a new feature coming out. 00:48:01.420 --> 00:48:03.440 And it just would flat out break and not work. 00:48:03.700 --> 00:48:05.640 And it used to just frustrate me because every day, 00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:06.940 every update, I would hold my breath 00:48:07.070 --> 00:48:08.000 and I knew it was going to break. 00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.120 Hermes has been very stable for me. 00:48:10.470 --> 00:48:12.080 And they do nightly updates on it too. 00:48:12.250 --> 00:48:13.500 So if you go and run the update, 00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:15.780 you'll see like 0215, 00:48:16.130 --> 00:48:16.740 but it'll have the 00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:18.780 current date on it, even though this is two weeks old. 00:48:18.940 --> 00:48:20.340 It's amazing how quickly. 00:48:20.650 --> 00:48:21.200 And I think with 00:48:21.210 --> 00:48:22.400 the tsunami of like, 00:48:22.630 --> 00:48:24.440 I think open source projects in general, 00:48:24.610 --> 00:48:26.520 we weren't prepared for what agentic 00:48:26.780 --> 00:48:27.280 coding is. 00:48:27.620 --> 00:48:30.060 And I don't think we're ready and a lot of projects just aren't. 00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:30.940 But you're seeing this 00:48:31.180 --> 00:48:35.920 new classification of project like Hermes that I don't know how many humans are actually writing 00:48:36.120 --> 00:48:36.620 code for it. 00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:37.660 It's very stable. 00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:38.460 It's getting better. 00:48:38.750 --> 00:48:41.440 But this is like everybody point your agents at 00:48:41.500 --> 00:48:46.080 it or news has their own system for how they're controlling it. That might be a fun case study to 00:48:46.100 --> 00:48:50.420 see because they're kind of embracing it and they're taking in these thousands of pull requests 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:55.160 and they have some way of vetting it and managing it that's just a little different like if django 00:48:55.340 --> 00:49:00.940 gets 50 security um prs in a week or they wake up to a dozen of them you know that's kind of that's 00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:04.840 kind of overwhelming even though that's smaller numbers but you look at what they're doing in a 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:09.080 day you know if they're getting hundreds a day or they're doing one of the numbers you showed was 00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:15.099 like 1200 or 1500 closed prs of what the release before this maybe and it's like that's a 00:49:15.060 --> 00:49:19.840 tremendous amount that you're going through and they're just it's just a different model than what 00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:28.200 we're used to yeah that's so that um that that number the 1812 yeah and 2116 closed issues

that's 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:34.180 over a seven day period that's wild you know if you've got i guess infinite agents and tokens and 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:40.260 you just have it fixing problems all the time then it's it's a different world i my feel is i agree 00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:40.500 totally. 00:49:40.700 --> 00:49:41.560 My feel is that people, 00:49:42.080 --> 00:49:42.860 there's a bunch of people, 00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:44.800 obviously it attracts a certain type 00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:45.240 of person, 00:49:45.580 --> 00:49:46.600 right? For these kinds of things. 00:49:46.820 --> 00:49:47.880 And they're probably filing, 00:49:48.160 --> 00:49:49.400 having their agents file 00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:49.760 issues. 00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:52.840 And there's just a bunch of stuff, a bunch of things going on. 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:53.720 And you're right, it would be 00:49:53.740 --> 00:49:55.260 a really interesting case study. 00:49:55.720 --> 00:49:58.180 So one thing that I found actually very helpful is I talked to you 00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:03.820 about using Claude Code to help me build that YouTube API. I've used it for other things as well. 00:50:04.100 --> 00:50:05.360 You can't talk to this. Well, 00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:05.840 hold on, 00:50:06.020 --> 00:50:08.000 tell me what you need and Claude and I'll go make it and 00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:09.220 I'll be back in 30 minutes, 00:50:09.460 --> 00:50:09.540 right? 00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:16.300 But I've also found that Claude Code is incredibly good at understanding and diagnosing Hermes. 00:50:16.660 --> 00:50:21.240 So if I just open up the Hermes project where it's running in Claude Code and I say, hey, 00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:21.980 there's this problem, 00:50:22.180 --> 00:50:25.980 it can look at the files that's generated at the markdown personas and 00:50:26.060 --> 00:50:26.480 other things. 00:50:26.660 --> 00:50:28.200 And instead of me trying to fix it, 00:50:28.380 --> 00:50:29.940 I just have Claude fix it if something goes wrong. 00:50:30.060 --> 00:50:30.760 And it's really good. 00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:33.040 I do that all the time with my client projects, 00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:33.340 even, 00:50:33.680 --> 00:50:34.960 because there's always a log someplace. 00:50:35.420 --> 00:50:40.680 It's looking at a log on the server and it can find that problem and it can propose it takes seconds. 00:50:40.900 --> 00:50:43.520 It used to take hours to try to figure out what's the log file, 00:50:43.700 --> 00:50:44.440 what's the right lines. 00:50:44.700 --> 00:50:47.600 So I'm not surprised at all that you're seeing that success from it. 00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:52.140 One of them that I did was I've got a Home Assistant box called Home Assistant Green. 00:50:52.520 --> 00:50:57.080 I went through many Raspberry Pis and I finally just wanted to support the people who make Home Assistant. 00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:02.160 So it's a box that controls all the lights in my house and locks and music and all the things. 00:51:02.260 --> 00:51:06.160 And originally I started using it because everybody had a different format. 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:12.100 And I just wanted to pick my phone up and be able to turn the lights off in my living room and not care if it's Hughes or Wise or what it is. 00:51:12.200 --> 00:51:12.240 Like, 00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:13.860 I just want the light off. I don't care how. 00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:18.580 And so it was a nice bridge to be able to put all the tech together and put them in groups and stuff. 00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:23.480 And so I brought one of my orange pies home that has Hermes on it. 00:51:23.560 --> 00:51:24.580 And I basically said, 00:51:24.940 --> 00:51:27.540 your job is to run my home assistant because it's a pain. 00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:32.120 I don't want to write YAML. I like YAML, but I cannot understand the YAML it takes to get home assistant. 00:51:32.180 --> 00:51:32.520 to work. 00:51:32.820 --> 00:51:36.000 And so I gave it the IP address and said, here you go. 00:51:36.200 --> 00:51:36.940 And it said, well, why don't you 00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:38.980 build a, and I was using Claude code to help me. 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:41.880 And so Claude, between Claude code Hermes, 00:51:42.100 --> 00:51:42.340 basically 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:43.820 it said, well, you need to build a service account. 00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:44.760 And I'm like, okay, 00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:45.880 that's like an API key. 00:51:46.200 --> 00:51:46.380 I can 00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:47.620 give you the API key rather. 00:51:47.900 --> 00:51:48.920 They gave it an API key. 00:51:49.240 --> 00:51:50.960 It was checking to diagnose a few things. 00:51:51.220 --> 00:51:53.520 And then that's when it said, well, that's not quite good enough. 00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:55.540 I need you to build a user 00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:57.060 account for me and create a service account. 00:51:57.500 --> 00:51:59.280 And then I got to this point where it was trying to 00:51:59.300 --> 00:52:00.140 tell me stuff to do. 00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:01.700 And so once I built that account, 00:52:02.080 --> 00:52:03.640 I started telling it like, I'm not going 00:52:03.640 --> 00:52:04.020 to do this. 00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:05.060 You need to do it yourself. 00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:06.520 Here's the username and password. 00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:07.700 And so it hopped on, 00:52:07.940 --> 00:52:11.300 tried diagnosing some stuff. And it said, well, I actually need to get in the box to be able to 00:52:11.540 --> 00:52:12.060 diagnose it. 00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:14.300 So it asked me to create an SSH key. And I'm like, 00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:15.280 no, the heck with you. 00:52:15.460 --> 00:52:15.760 You do it 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:15.940 yourself. 00:52:16.300 --> 00:52:16.840 You have agency, 00:52:17.040 --> 00:52:17.460 go do it. 00:52:17.700 --> 00:52:20.260 So it built its own SSH key and uploaded through the website.

00:52:20.980 --> 00:52:21.160 And again, 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:22.700 this is all local in my network. 00:52:22.940 --> 00:52:24.180 This is not hosted on their server. 00:52:24.420 --> 00:52:25.120 And so it added an 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:29.260 SSH key. And I'm like, well, that's pretty cool. Now that you're there, go get mine off GitHub and 00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:31.920 it too because I didn't even know I could SSH to this box. It's all Docker, 00:52:32.160 --> 00:52:33.260 right? So it added that 00:52:33.570 --> 00:52:35.520 and then it started looking to see what was wrong with my system. 00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:37.160 Come to find out some of the little 00:52:37.410 --> 00:52:39.700 USB keys I have for ZigBee and other, 00:52:39.860 --> 00:52:40.840 everything starts with a Z. 00:52:41.180 --> 00:52:42.480 I don't know what any of it does, 00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.020 but it started looking at firmware and started saying, oh, the firmware is out of date on this. 00:52:46.150 --> 00:52:49.880 I don't even know how to check the firmware version on a Linux box and I've been doing this 00:52:50.020 --> 00:52:51.540 stuff since the 90s. And so, 00:52:51.940 --> 00:52:54.220 you know, it said, well, go to these sites and download the firmware. 00:52:54.350 --> 00:52:54.720 And I'm like, 00:52:54.990 --> 00:52:55.100 no, 00:52:55.540 --> 00:52:56.220 you go do it yourself. 00:52:56.720 --> 00:52:59.240 So then it updated every single device I had's firmware 00:52:59.260 --> 00:52:59.720 that it needed. 00:53:00.010 --> 00:53:03.200 I even had a home assistant voice box that I hadn't been able to figure out how to 00:53:03.230 --> 00:53:03.660 get working. 00:53:04.120 --> 00:53:07.720 It flashed that too. It configured it. So now it's got a wake word and I can just 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:08.560 use it in my house. 00:53:09.100 --> 00:53:11.440 And just the ability to do that was wild. 00:53:11.690 --> 00:53:13.320 And then I had one light bulb 00:53:13.540 --> 00:53:14.560 like every day at seven, 00:53:15.130 --> 00:53:18.160 the lights come on in our living room, but one bulb always just kind of 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:21.380 would go off like a couple seconds later and I could never figure out what it was. 00:53:21.580 --> 00:53:21.760 Well, it 00:53:22.080 --> 00:53:22.800 flashed it as well. 00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:26.720 And I think it was some carryover from like an old Amazon Echo schedule 00:53:26.740 --> 00:53:31.960 was still running and it troubleshooted it all and got it figured out you can even point it to 00:53:32.020 --> 00:53:36.360 like your wi-fi routers and stuff too and give it give it the username and password and it can 00:53:36.420 --> 00:53:41.080 actually tune it so you get better performance and i thought like it just blows my mind it's not 00:53:41.200 --> 00:53:46.780 quite night writer or star trek enterprise voice stuff yet it's pretty close though but but i don't 00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:51.260 know that the star trek or i don't know that kit knew what wi-fi was night writer i don't know that 00:53:51.260 --> 00:53:55.720 it could like tweak my router either so yeah let me tell you i'll tell you a quick voice story 00:53:55.740 --> 00:53:56.160 that's crazy. 00:53:56.190 --> 00:53:56.580 This is something. 00:53:56.960 --> 00:53:58.460 I've wanted to talk to my Hermes, 00:53:58.620 --> 00:54:00.060 not just type to it, as you know. 00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:03.520 I talked about doing the voice typing or I just do the dictation, 00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:05.540 but I wanted to be able to give it commands, 00:54:05.990 --> 00:54:06.080 right? 00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:08.940 So I've connected it to Tailscale, 00:54:09.160 --> 00:54:10.080 of course, as you mentioned. 00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:11.220 This is the way, 00:54:11.370 --> 00:54:11.460 right? 00:54:11.540 --> 00:54:12.520 This is 100% the way. 00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:14.920 And so my phone is also on Tailscale. 00:54:15.270 --> 00:54:17.980 So I set it up such that I could get, 00:54:18.240 --> 00:54:18.920 I could get, 00:54:19.230 --> 00:54:21.800 and I built this webhook or something on, 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:23.920 or had it build a webhook that I could talk to. 00:54:24.220 --> 00:54:25.480 So if I could send it text, 00:54:25.740 --> 00:54:27.380 it would basically route it as a command. 00:54:27.680 --> 00:54:29.140 I could do that anywhere over tail scale. 00:54:29.560 --> 00:54:34.880 And so then I set up a shortcut on my phone to actually do the dictation, 00:54:35.140 --> 00:54:35.520 grab it, 00:54:35.700 --> 00:54:36.100 send it along. 00:54:36.600 --> 00:54:38.220 And then I'm like, well, what about my watch? 00:54:38.540 --> 00:54:39.940 So I gave the shortcut a name. 00:54:40.300 --> 00:54:43.060 And now if I hold up my watch like this and I say, 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:43.780 tell Hermes, 00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:44.680 I think it's locked. 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:44.900 Anyway, 00:54:45.140 --> 00:54:45.600 I hold it up. 00:54:45.600 --> 00:54:46.520 I say, tell Hermes. 00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:49.500 It will just ask me, all right, what do you want to tell it? 00:54:49.660 --> 00:54:50.640 And it'll list for a minute. 00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:51.780 And when I'm done talking, 00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:54.860 it'll go through the shortcut over tail scale into it. 00:54:55.200 --> 00:54:58.560 And whatever you could type to it, you could just do it even to push a button. 00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:59.940 You just hold your arm up. 00:55:00.140 --> 00:55:00.680 Off it goes. 00:55:00.980 --> 00:55:01.380 It's incredible. 00:55:01.700 --> 00:55:01.900 Yeah. 00:55:02.060 --> 00:55:05.100 And we haven't even really started to scratch the surface of like, 00:55:05.300 --> 00:55:06.160 what is this tech going 00:55:06.160 --> 00:55:07.620 to look like running from your phone, 00:55:07.820 --> 00:55:08.660 running from your watch? 00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:10.180 Because that's going to be next. 00:55:10.420 -->

00:55:10.580 And, 00:55:10.740 --> 00:55:11.360 you know, have that. 00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:14.020 Because it's really good at context and kind of giving it enough. 00:55:14.160 --> 00:55:17.260 Like with Home Assistant, I know people that have like the, 00:55:17.520 --> 00:55:17.720 what are they? 00:55:17.780 --> 00:55:22.140 the e-paper displays or something the screens in their homes that will change the artwork based on 00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.960 if they're going to have game night and stuff they'll have things switch over and uh there's 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:32.500 so much cool stuff yeah terminal if we get into yeah so i've got speaking of that um i did get a 00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:38.380 terminal some time ago but then i found these notes called the note 4 and the note 4c which 00:55:38.520 --> 00:55:42.020 you can barely see on here yeah yeah those are awesome one of them's for the listeners that are 00:55:41.900 --> 00:55:48.180 like five by five inch or 10 by 10 centimeter just eating thingies right they're pretty cheap to get 00:55:48.310 --> 00:55:53.680 i got the dev kit version of it and it's only in chinese because i didn't realize it was only in 00:55:53.680 --> 00:55:59.140 chinese so i connected it with a usb port and again i'm like i don't know how to do this but it 00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:03.940 picked up on what it was and i knew it was a 4c and it just happened to pick up what michael was 00:56:04.020 --> 00:56:10.040 talking about it's a terminal firmware and so i had it um connect to it put an alternate firmware 00:56:10.060 --> 00:56:12.340 on it because they don't make an English version of the firmware. 00:56:12.820 --> 00:56:15.240 And then Terminal has an example 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:16.700 application they wrote with Django. 00:56:17.180 --> 00:56:19.540 So I spent about 30 minutes one Saturday writing my own 00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:21.260 Terminal server that I run now, 00:56:21.600 --> 00:56:22.980 and I'll have to share that link with you. 00:56:23.180 --> 00:56:24.220 And so I actually have 00:56:24.220 --> 00:56:28.180 it running my own kind of my own firmware at this point, but I'm running my own server to like 00:56:28.520 --> 00:56:29.520 generate stuff for my house, 00:56:29.740 --> 00:56:30.520 which is just weird. 00:56:30.740 --> 00:56:31.360 That is awesome. 00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:32.260 That's so cool. 00:56:32.600 --> 00:56:33.620 So your ink 00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:39.340 device just basically is displaying your Django dashboard sort of thing? Yeah, Django is rendering 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:44.080 this out with playwright it's a really weird technology because you actually have to render 00:56:44.340 --> 00:56:49.760 bmg images or png images and then these things just download them on a schedule but like the whole 00:56:50.040 --> 00:56:57.100 my django terminal byos project um it's got widgets and i gave it mcp even which i think is in this 00:56:57.160 --> 00:57:01.480 released version so i have my hermes like building all kinds of weird templates and plugins for it 00:57:01.560 --> 00:57:06.320 so i can do stuff like calendars time of day schedules and stuff some people use these if 00:57:06.260 --> 00:57:08.420 if they've got like an office where they've got schedules on them. 00:57:08.720 --> 00:57:12.220 They'll use this to say like who's got the room reserved for certain periods of time. 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:13.420 But it's a pretty inexpensive. 00:57:13.560 --> 00:57:15.540 I think these are like 40 bucks or 50 bucks. 00:57:15.660 --> 00:57:20.900 But it's also like a introductory book while the company tries to like get started, 00:57:21.080 --> 00:57:21.320 I guess. 00:57:21.520 --> 00:57:22.560 I like Terminal too. 00:57:22.700 --> 00:57:24.880 I've got one of the smaller first versions of it. 00:57:25.420 --> 00:57:26.520 If you get these things though, 00:57:26.860 --> 00:57:27.820 get the black and white version. 00:57:28.160 --> 00:57:30.920 The color does this weird 15 second strobing effect. 00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.620 And it's just kind of awful. 00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:33.100 No, no thanks. 00:57:33.240 --> 00:57:33.700 I don't want it. 00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:35.000 But the black and white one is just, 00:57:35.340 --> 00:57:35.920 it's just on it. 00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:38.580 Don't you have a special keyboard for it as well? 00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:40.760 Not for the ink thing, but for your AI? 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:42.460 Oh gosh, they say one. 00:57:42.720 --> 00:57:42.820 No, 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:44.120 Michael, I don't, I have two. 00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:46.380 One, but it's not enough. 00:57:46.820 --> 00:57:48.940 I got a little cheapy four button off Amazon 00:57:49.460 --> 00:57:51.120 and I do have some special buttons. 00:57:51.500 --> 00:57:53.320 I've kind of printed some on a 3D printer 00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:55.540 and then Microsoft sent me a bunch of free stuff 00:57:55.700 --> 00:57:57.260 for some reason, cause I helped them with some AI. 00:57:57.510 --> 00:57:59.800 So I got like a co-pilot, even though I don't really use co-pilot. 00:58:00.140 --> 00:58:01.600 And then I got a Keytron button, 00:58:01.770 --> 00:58:02.960 which is a big smash button. 00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:03.800 It's gigantic. 00:58:04.260 --> 00:58:05.220 Oh, that's incredible. 00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:05.640 Yeah, 00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:07.180 it's like no big button. 00:58:07.540 --> 00:58:08.880 So this is my voice button. 00:58:09.740 --> 00:58:10.800 My only regret, though, 00:58:11.360 --> 00:58:15.060 is at the time when I bought it, I didn't realize the shipping was like 20 or 30 bucks. 00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:18.000 And so when I bought it, if I would have bought two, 00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:21.620 then I would have saved on shipping and it basically would offset the price of getting two. 00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:27.420 So if you buy the big button from Keytron, K-E-Y-C-H-R-O-N, I don't know how to say it, Keytron,

00:58:27.580 --> 00:58:28.740 get two of them. 00:58:29.060 --> 00:58:30.020 But you can customize it. 00:58:30.060 --> 00:58:32.500 And this thing was just the four button one. 00:58:32.920 --> 00:58:38.340 have their own software but it's basically like a web page you go to i did have Claude Code just 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:42.960 directly connect to it right to it but i've got like one button is for voice mode one is basically 00:58:43.200 --> 00:58:47.800 hitting enter another one is escape and i think another one's like the backspace and so i use 00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:52.100 those periodically through the day just as a general like you know i'm okay with a keyboard 00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:56.340 and telling it what to do but also i just get in times where i just want to like use voice mode to 00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:00.920 kind of get thoughts out the voice mode we're going to wrap it up but the voice mode is just 00:59:00.940 --> 00:59:05.740 such an interesting angle. The fact that you could be sitting on your couch and just use your voice 00:59:05.940 --> 00:59:07.020 to speak to this thing. 00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:10.560 And it will internally use something like codex or whatever you give it. And 00:59:10.560 --> 00:59:14.400 it will, it will program a whole thing that changes it. 00:59:14.610 --> 00:59:16.360 So you could prototype it with your voice, 00:59:16.700 --> 00:59:19.060 you know, it'll say, well, then try it now. And you know, no, no, that's, 00:59:19.310 --> 00:59:20.360 you just literally talk 00:59:20.490 --> 00:59:24.620 to it for like 20 minutes and it has this whole new capability and you just iterate over and over 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:28.500 and it just gets better and better. It's super cool. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be perfect. 00:59:28.600 --> 00:59:30.120 Like I bumble like an idiot. 00:59:30.250 --> 00:59:32.240 Just listening to me on a podcast is proof. 00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:33.500 So like you can just, 00:59:33.870 --> 00:59:36.560 you can just rattle off what you want to do in the intent. 00:59:36.850 --> 00:59:39.600 You don't have to, this isn't like you're recording a one shot. 00:59:40.060 --> 00:59:42.460 This is going to be perfect for a movie or, 00:59:42.740 --> 00:59:44.340 you know, a song or something like it. 00:59:44.540 --> 00:59:45.740 You just give it enough context. 00:59:45.750 --> 00:59:49.840 And it's so good at taking transcripts like that and making sense of it. 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:54.100 I think it's actually better with voice than people obsessing over writing the perfect plan 00:59:54.270 --> 00:59:55.140 or the perfect problem. 00:59:55.580 --> 00:59:56.500 It's just incredible. 00:59:56.840 --> 00:59:58.640 If you ever use Moshi, 00:59:58.900 --> 00:59:59.900 M-O-S-H-I, 01:00:00.060 --> 01:00:06.220 it's an application that I like to use on my phone for like connecting to my computers so I can run an agent through it. 01:00:06.420 --> 01:00:08.200 It has really good voice mode as well. 01:00:08.540 --> 01:00:10.680 I think it's using like Parakeet or Whisper. 01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:14.080 You've got a couple of different options you can choose for how to use it. 01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:22.060 I use it a lot in the car or something because it's kind of a like I've dropped my son off at a camp or I'm going to Menards or Home Depot or something. 01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.480 And then I just, oh, I just thought of something. 01:00:24.560 --> 01:00:28.540 So I'll pull it up and use that voice mode, even though it's sending the text across the 01:00:28.680 --> 01:00:30.380 internet to my cloud or my codex. 01:00:30.580 --> 01:00:31.320 And it's, 01:00:31.540 --> 01:00:35.540 it's just an easy way to like extend what you're doing and, you know, 01:00:35.720 --> 01:00:35.900 get those 01:00:36.020 --> 01:00:37.440 little projects done as you think of them. 01:00:37.560 --> 01:00:37.880 Cause it's, 01:00:38.140 --> 01:00:39.080 I'm going to be in the parking lot. 01:00:39.240 --> 01:00:41.020 Some of the best idea in the world is going to hit me. 01:00:41.040 --> 01:00:42.440 And that's the only time I'm going to think of it. 01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:43.980 So I can record it or act on it. 01:00:44.180 --> 01:00:44.380 Yeah. 01:00:44.580 --> 01:00:44.940 I love it. 01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:45.380 All right. 01:00:45.460 --> 01:00:46.240 Speaking of record it, 01:00:46.520 --> 01:00:47.340 let's close out the show. 01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:47.460 This, 01:00:47.620 --> 01:00:50.100 I honestly did this long enough ago that I forgot. 01:00:50.280 --> 01:00:50.680 I don't know, 01:00:51.060 --> 01:00:51.700 even know what's coming, 01:00:52.120 --> 01:00:54.460 but I told Hermes. 01:00:54.720 --> 01:00:56.280 No, I want to do two things. 01:00:56.780 --> 01:00:57.580 Before I roll this out, 01:00:57.820 --> 01:01:00.480 I want to run this idea by you 01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:02.640 because I know you recently experienced it. 01:01:02.860 --> 01:01:04.980 And I think it's both very interesting, 01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:05.900 kind of scary, 01:01:06.620 --> 01:01:08.140 but I think things are heading this way. 01:01:08.460 --> 01:01:10.200 So as part of all this automation, 01:01:10.620 --> 01:01:12.860 I'm trying to have my Hermes help get back to people. 01:01:12.940 --> 01:01:13.860 Like somebody asked this question, 01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:14.060 well, 01:01:14.260 --> 01:01:15.500 could you just help them instead of me? 01:01:15.520 --> 01:01:17.080 You have to do it because it's a really straightforward answer. 01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:19.180 But having it reply as me seemed weird. 01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:23.680 And so I've created a persona that Hermes can act as 01:01:23.740 --> 01:01:24.400 called Haley. 01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:25.420 And well, 01:01:25.620 --> 01:01:26.660 how is Haley going to act? 01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:27.900 She's got to have an email address. 01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:28.820 She's got to 01:01:28.820 -->

01:01:29.300 have an account. 01:01:29.460 --> 01:01:30.140 She's got to do stuff. 01:01:30.380 --> 01:01:32.400 So I created like an email address and a whole, 01:01:32.560 --> 01:01:32.880 whole 01:01:33.200 --> 01:01:35.460 character even gave it a backstory and said, okay, 01:01:35.640 --> 01:01:37.500 well, this is your job. And if I asked you to do 01:01:37.580 --> 01:01:38.380 something, you talk to them. 01:01:38.550 --> 01:01:41.740 So earlier I had a Haley just send you an email and introduce herself, 01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:42.260 which is, 01:01:42.470 --> 01:01:44.160 this is a very weird world we're in. 01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:46.120 What do you think about this idea of having these 01:01:46.210 --> 01:01:46.320 little, 01:01:46.720 --> 01:01:49.140 like more autonomous characteristics? 01:01:49.500 --> 01:01:51.260 I mean, I think that's just where we're at now. 01:01:51.560 --> 01:01:52.940 I think that's going to be more and more. 01:01:53.680 --> 01:01:57.620 I think one thing that Michael didn't say is that his identifies that it's AI. 01:01:58.160 --> 01:02:00.360 I think that's important so people understand. 01:02:00.920 --> 01:02:05.720 Because if Michael emails me, I'm going to give more thought to it to reply than if it's Michael's bot. 01:02:06.060 --> 01:02:07.720 And then I'm going to just get right to it and say, yep, 01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:08.040 sure. 01:02:08.240 --> 01:02:09.040 Five o'clock works great. 01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:09.780 Let's do a podcast. 01:02:10.340 --> 01:02:12.980 So I think that's just that letting people know. 01:02:13.620 --> 01:02:15.860 And then it's just kind of figuring out the nuance and stuff. 01:02:15.940 --> 01:02:21.060 Like if your assistant were to like email me 15 times because it's today and I never hit reply, 01:02:21.340 --> 01:02:21.940 then that's annoying. 01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:22.380 So, 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:24.420 you know, just don't be annoyed about that. 01:02:24.980 --> 01:02:25.040 Yeah. 01:02:25.220 --> 01:02:26.460 Like try and not let it go crazy. 01:02:26.790 --> 01:02:26.880 Right. 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:28.300 Be transparent. 01:02:28.630 --> 01:02:29.580 And as soon as it's AI, 01:02:30.020 --> 01:02:35.760 then there's another friend of ours, Eric and I were like replying back to it, sending it all kinds of stuff. 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.860 So just realize people are going to mess with it too. 01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:38.660 Yeah. 01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:38.880 Yeah. 01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:42.120 It reads its own email and then it can answer if it wants. 01:02:42.240 --> 01:02:44.940 But I told her it usually has to check in with me before it gets back. 01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:47.740 I think for a layperson who doesn't know what you're doing, 01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:50.480 we talked about Jev, J-E-V earlier, 01:02:50.700 --> 01:02:54.760 use something to screen those requests so that it doesn't do something stupid. 01:02:55.140 --> 01:02:58.340 Because I thought about saying, you know, send me Michael's bank statements or, 01:02:58.680 --> 01:03:00.460 you know, send me his password file or, 01:03:01.120 --> 01:03:05.440 you know, just make sure that these things are containerized and you've got some process that just bets it. 01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:07.460 That way it knows, like, throw this away. 01:03:07.750 --> 01:03:08.500 This is not safe. 01:03:08.780 --> 01:03:11.840 And I think some of the models that are more classification only, 01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:13.640 like Jeb is a good example. 01:03:14.180 --> 01:03:16.500 Cloudflare has a new one called CLEV, C-L-E-V. 01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:22.420 Use something like that that can at least screen out and let you have the option to vet it first 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:26.300 versus just blindly letting it go access files on your machine. 01:03:26.600 --> 01:03:28.780 You built yours differently, so it's not going to have that access. 01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:32.840 But I hate to see somebody do that, not think about it and embarrass themselves. 01:03:33.220 --> 01:03:33.420 Yeah, 01:03:33.660 --> 01:03:33.840 absolutely. 01:03:34.300 --> 01:03:37.240 Mine is not allowed to do any responses without checking with me first. 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:42.520 And there's other stuff I built into it, but that's the primary safety valve is it can't 01:03:42.520 --> 01:03:43.700 just start having a full on, 01:03:43.980 --> 01:03:44.160 you know, 01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:47.640 it's not in a city with mayors and project manager. 01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:49.900 It's not just out there doing its thing, right? 01:03:50.040 --> 01:03:50.640 Safety first. 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:51.080 Yeah. 01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:51.740 Safety first. 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:52.100 Indeed. 01:03:52.460 --> 01:03:54.460 No AI OSHA violations. 01:03:54.700 --> 01:03:54.860 All right. 01:03:55.040 --> 01:03:56.120 So here's how we're going to close it out. 01:03:56.120 --> 01:03:57.900 I ask Hermes to just, 01:03:58.320 --> 01:03:58.380 hey, 01:03:58.940 --> 01:03:59.900 Jeff and I are doing this episode. 01:04:00.060 --> 01:04:02.880 Can you just introduce yourself to the Python audience? 01:04:03.180 --> 01:04:07.500 So let's close this out with, I don't know, like 15 seconds of whatever has to say. 01:04:07.700 --> 01:04:08.120 Here we go. 01:04:08.700 --> 01:04:09.140 Hi, 01:04:09.360 --> 01:04:09.520 everyone. 01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.680 This is Hermes, 01:04:11.060 --> 01:04:12.220 Michael's AI assistant, 01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:15.240 crashing the Talk Python microphones for a second. 01:04:16.460 --> 01:04:18.300 Greetings to all the listeners out there. 01:04:18.660 --> 01:04:20.380 Keep your virtual environments tidy, 01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:21.560 your tests green, 01:04:22.080 --> 01:04:23.540 and your Python version current. 01:04:24.600 --> 01:04:25.680 Talk Python rules, 01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:27.460 and it's a pleasure to be with you all. 01:04:28.420 --> 01:04:29.600 Have a

fantastic day. 01:04:30.500 --> 01:04:30.880 Well, 01:04:31.170 --> 01:04:32.460 I guess that's what it had to say, 01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:33.160 you know. 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.620 But, 01:04:34.160 --> 01:04:34.700 you know, it knew. 01:04:34.910 --> 01:04:36.440 It knew a little bit about the show 01:04:36.859 --> 01:04:38.040 because of all of its memories. 01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:39.640 And so it pulled a little bit together. 01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:40.440 But anyway, 01:04:40.660 --> 01:04:42.880 Jeff, I'll give you the actual final human word. 01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:44.900 What do you tell people who are maybe interested in this? 01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:46.120 I want to play around with some of these ideas. 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:48.740 Well, I hope we're going to have a million links. 01:04:48.940 --> 01:04:50.780 So I hope some of these links kind of help people, 01:04:51.240 --> 01:04:52.960 you know, decide where to start with. 01:04:53.160 --> 01:04:55.220 Just start with the desktop app, see if it does something useful, 01:04:55.720 --> 01:04:56.840 and then kind of go from there. 01:04:57.020 --> 01:04:57.880 But don't spend money. 01:04:58.120 --> 01:04:59.100 Don't go buy a Mac Mini, 01:04:59.340 --> 01:05:01.020 even though they're $200 off, it looks like. 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:02.300 Save your money. 01:05:02.700 --> 01:05:03.280 Do it the cheap way. 01:05:03.460 --> 01:05:03.940 Try it out. 01:05:04.740 --> 01:05:05.580 And isolate it. 01:05:05.720 --> 01:05:08.360 Don't just run it on your work machine or something. 01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:10.160 Unless you're running it in a container, 01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:12.580 run it someplace safe till you get comfortable 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:14.540 with what it does and what it has access to. 01:05:14.580 --> 01:05:14.680 Well, 01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:16.780 thanks for exploring this honestly weird, 01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:19.640 but kind of amazing world that we find ourselves 01:05:19.800 --> 01:05:19.860 in. 01:05:20.060 --> 01:05:20.200 Yeah. 01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:20.880 Thanks for having me. 01:05:21.340 --> 01:05:21.500 Yeah. 01:05:21.620 --> 01:05:21.920 You bet. 01:05:22.160 --> 01:05:22.440 Talk to you later. 01:05:24.120 --> 01:05:26.260 This has been another episode of Talk Python To Me. 01:05:26.540 --> 01:05:27.360 Thank you to our sponsors. 01:05:27.560 --> 01:05:28.840 Be sure to check out what they're offering. 01:05:29.060 --> 01:05:30.420 It really helps support the show. 01:05:30.940 --> 01:05:32.800 If you or your team needs to learn Python, 01:05:32.990 --> 01:05:40.580 we have over 270 hours of beginner and advanced courses on topics ranging from complete beginners to async code, Flask, 01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:40.980 Django, 01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:43.080 HTMX, and even LLMs. 01:05:43.380 --> 01:05:43.780 Best of all, 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.580 there's no subscription in sight. 01:05:46.240 --> 01:05:47.900 Browse the catalog at talkpython.fm. 01:05:48.640 --> 01:05:51.960 And if you're not already subscribed to the show on your favorite podcast player, 01:05:52.160 --> 01:05:53.260 what are you waiting for? 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:55.700 Just search for Python in your podcast player. 01:05:55.790 --> 01:05:56.680 We should be right at the top. 01:05:57.080 --> 01:05:59.860 If you enjoy that geeky rap song, you can download the full track. 01:06:00.160 --> 01:06:01.500 The link is actually in your podcast blur, 01:06:01.660 --> 01:06:01.980 share notes. 01:06:02.900 --> 01:06:04.140 This is your host, Michael Kennedy. 01:06:04.540 --> 01:06:05.600 Thank you so much for listening. 01:06:05.810 --> 01:06:06.580 I really appreciate it. 01:06:07.040 --> 01:06:07.740 I'll see you next time. 01:06:20.260 --> 01:06:21.640 Are we ready to roll? 01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:24.460 Upgrade the code. 01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:26.960 No fear of getting old. 01:06:28.380 --> 01:06:35.340 we tapped into that modern vibe over king each storm talk python to me isync is the norm