The Future of Progressive Politics and LGBTQ+ Rights in America. With Jamie Hill의 전체 녹취록

able to transition into a full time paramedic role, which I'm glad. And I really fell in love with emergency medicine and medicine in general. And along the way, picked up undergrad degrees in public safety studies, healthcare management, and you know, emergency management. And that was kind of what I thought my trajectory was gonna be is EMS and working in emergency management. But also in the middle of all that, you know, the gender dysphoria kept getting worse, kept getting worse. And every time I'd come back, it would get worse. And, you know, I eventually ended up the spot so many trans people do where it was, you know, transition or commit suicide. And that was just, you know, that that realization that we needed to do something, you know, and it's it's one of those that why I'm kind of a big proponent of talking about mental health is, you know, so often you don't even realize it's happening. You know, that you know like one day I got hung up on how do I leave a note to tell my kids you know, I am sorry, but also make it look accidental so they have insurance money to to live on. That was that was the hang up. That was where I stopped and went, this is something that I need to deal with. And so started doing gender affirming care. And you know, that really let me thrive after that. And really that was when I decided that my back was getting Too bad to stay in EMS. You know, the the power cots and the load systems came too late in my career to save save my back. And so I started looking for a new a new way to serve the community. And I decided that I was going to go get my physician assistant. my you know famous little phrase my wife reminds me all the time of, it's just a master's degree. but they're one of the most intense master's master's degrees out there, but I was able to get into Yale School of Medicine, which for the Dirt Road Farm Kid was something never thought would happen. And, you know, a lot of it I attribute to being able to be who I really was after after transitioning. And, you know, that led me to, you know, I had planned to stay in my local community. I mean, I had made it three hundred feet down the road from mom and dad. And dad was 300 feet down the road from grandma and grandpa. We're not a migratory species by any means. And you know, I was gonna stay. That's why I went back to school was to provide care in my community because I saw how many people that I treated on the ambulance who didn't need the ambulance or the ER, but because they didn't have access to primary care, that was where they ended up. But unfortunately. None of the three hospital systems that were in my county that I had worked with for close to 20 years at this point would even give me a call back as an out non-binary PA, which which hurt, you know, because that I didn't want to go anywhere. And on paper, other than being non-binary, I'm the perfect candidate for them. Someone who grew up there, I already proved I'm willing to work. crappy hours for not enough pay being a paramedic in a rural agency. And and you know, and with a with a degree from Yale, you know, that should have been I should have had no problem getting a job, but there there was only one reason for that. So that's where I had to decide that what do I do? And, you know, so many people told me that that should have been my clue to go to some blue city and a blue state and get out of rural America. But you know I'm I'm a little bit stubborn. So I wanted to stay in in a rural area. So that's how I ended up over on the west side of the state in the second congressional district. Was moved over here for work, found another small town. cr you know, created quite the little buzz when I when I rolled into town. but it it's been good. It's been a really accepting community and that, you know, I'm able to help and serve people over here. And, you know, also one of the reasons that I wanted to stay in rural. Michigan is I wanted to be the adult that I needed to see as a teenager. And, you know, I think out of all the things that I've done in the last, you know, three, four years since getting my my PA is I was at the local pride last year and you know, I had a young person come up who I had treated in the clinic at some point, who, you know, basically told they told me that I was the first adult trans person they ever met in real life. And you know, that that that really hit home because that that's what I wanted. I wanted them to be able to see that you can succeed even as a queer person in a rural area. And we can't all leave because nothing will change if we if we all leave. So that's the quick how I got to where I am. So Tabitha Zeigler: Yeah. You know, thank you really for telling all of that because I I think right now there's just so much hate and so much division and there are those of us that truly want change and are true humanists that believe in everybody. And I I'm one of them and I also grew up in a rural area. I'm part of the LGBTQ plus community myself. And Now I find that I have a child that I would say almost certain is trans and trying to navigate that and trying to, you know, reach out to people because I I also had no knowledge base for that. the first gay person I ever saw on TV was Ellen DeGeneres, right? So like I'm right Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: there with you. And it very much also was like, well, are you sure? sort of thing. But I think my get out of jail free card, if you will, was that I looked enough like a girl for it to not be so problematic, right? So Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: but I was aware of that and I think that's why I've always been very clear and loud in my opposition to any sort of oppression, because I'm like, hold on a second. Every single one of us is different in our own way, but we all contribute to society. And if we can just get past these few little hang ups that seem horrible and glaring to other people, like once you actually sit down and have a conversation

with someone else, you realize that hey, we, you know, put our our boots on one foot at a time, right? Like it's all the same. And watching my child grow into themselves and you know, sometimes we say I'm a girl. But we always like dresses and I'm not trying to be pushy, but you know, trying to have that conversation with people and you know, from a rural area, like my parents, for example, who are very much not accepting of that. And so trying to find a community to surround my child with so that they can grow up with that environment, right, that we didn't necessarily have, to just Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: let them be themselves. Jamie Hill: Yeah, and you know, I I think about the the the bigotry and the fear that happens in these small towns. Like did it hurt me emotionally to have to leave home? Yeah, it did. But it hurt that community more because, you know, they lost a provider who was willing to stay. And and and in their their Fear of an unknown, which I wasn't even an unknown. Like I did clinical rotations at all three of those hospitals in my training. And like I used their docs as the references to get the job I have. So it's not like it was a problem with care or anything, but that that fear, bigotry, or whatever it was hurt the community more than it hurt me. You know, I landed somewhere where I'm happy and you know and and I'm thriving. But I think that's what so many people realize that that by pushing good people out of their community just because they look different, it only it's only the community that get is hurt the most. Those those people will go find somewhere to thrive. And it's it's so short sighted and and but it is also why it's so important for those of us that do stay to try to be as visible as possible and and try to give that that hope and just visibility to people who maybe haven't found their voice yet. Tabitha Zeigler: Well, I'm like you. You know, I I think that's why I hung in there as long as I did. I was like, you know, I I never had that either, right? Like I didn't have that example of this is what a lesbian looks like, right? Like Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: all I had to go off of was T V. And so yeah, like it just complicates everything. I can't even imagine what it must have been like for you because I I know the statistics and you know, I I've been a very Pro trans supporter for a long time because I have I have friends as well, you know, and I've watched what has happened to them within their families and within their communities. And I saw just how how dangerous this road was becoming. And I'm Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: like, you know, those of us that know better have to do better. We have to stand up and say something. those of us that can walk into those rooms because we're from there and because we grew up there and how like force those conversations almost and say, you know, like do you really feel this way? Like do you really feel that it benefits you? Much like your situation, right? Like they lost an amazing provider for bigotry. And at the end of the day, many more people are gonna suffer because you're most likely not going to be the only one that leaves because of something like that. Jamie Hill: Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's you know, I w I was fortunate. Family was overall fairly accepting. you know, it it's something that, you know, I love my parents. We just don't talk about it. You know, it just it just is a thing and and that's, you know, kind of how my family deals with things is not talk about them. But still have a great relationship with them. You know, I mean I said we live next door to them and you know, for the for a while and it you it was great. You know, there was no problems there. And and even my coworkers at the ambulance on the ambulance were were all awesome when I came out. You know, baby it was of course it's always kind of funny. There's there's that one good friend when you come out and they're like, I know. And it's like, well you could have told me because I haven't figured it out yet. And then, you know, and then Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: Well, and so they it's the acceptance part, right? Where like you're so afraid because you're so afraid to lose these people that are close to you that you you know you genuinely care about and you genuinely love. And so you put your s I would imagine, right? This is how I felt, but you put yourself in a box trying to meet all the expectations of everyone else. And if you put that much energy and just just being yourself and you know, bringing your amazing and unique gifts into the world, like what a better world this would be. Jamie Hill: Yeah, i and you know, and it it was like they were they were super supportive and like I said, you get this point where it's it's kind of like having, you know, a secret identity because you start going and doing things where in spaces where you can be yourself and then you shall not talk about that at all to anyone else because you don't want to answer our hard questions, you know, like the average closeted trans person would make a you know, the great spy because on how well we can compartmentalize our life and make sure nobody sees anything. And y it is. It's exhausting. And and it it just is such a a challenge to just survive the day and survive the next day. Because before you're out, you hear the conversations, the unfiltered conversations that happen in those conservative spaces on, you know, what their actual thoughts. Yeah, when they think they're in a safe spot for them to to to talk about. And and then after you're Tabitha Zeigler: Well, let's talk about some of that stuff because that that's the stuff that's mainstream now, you know? and I always tell people, like, with everything, especially this, like go to the horse. If you really want to know about you know, trans anything, go ask a trans person. If you don't Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: know one in person, like try and find one online,

like obviously do it respectfully, but don't just make assumptions, like go straight to the horse. So let's talk about some of that stuff. Jamie Hill: Yeah, I mean, you know, of course about the time I was starting getting close to coming out was when the the the bathroom conversation first started hitting national news basically. And, you know, especially in in church spaces and things like that, you would you would you know hear people complaining about it, talking about it, putting down trans people and you know And so like you you start making this list of who's safe and who isn't ahead of time. A and but then you also have to balance it. Is this that quote unquote locker room tough talk because that's what they think other people around them want to hear? Or is that you know, is is this the litmus test to be in the conservative club right now, or do you actually feel like that? And, you know, it I mean, I was even you know, part of what I did at the church is is it I was part of our our church safety and security team and we went and did a training, you know, they brought in people from all over the state. We did this training, and like literally one of their training scenarios was a trans person in the woman's bathroom and how do you deal with this as a church? And it was like really, like this is such a rare thing, but that's what you're going to make. the deal out of and you know, it was just one of those like, come on, like this is not the threat that we're we we need to deal with. Tabitha Zeigler: Well, speaking of statistics, and this I've spoken loud on this and I've got quite a bit of blowback because I like science, you know, and statistics give Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: give us data to look at. it is always very like a very large percentage of the people committing, you know, violence against women and children tend to be white men. They don't tend to Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: be people that self-identify as trans or anything else. And I just find that really interesting because personally, whenever I put out a comment or a reel or whatever or or podcast and we're talking about hard issues like this, that is the majority of the feedback that I get back that's like extremely aggressive, vulgar, whatever, always from white men. And I'm like, Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: tapping into that white fragility. Like, you guys don't really wanna have that convers we don't wanna have the conversation about the big pink elephant in the room, right? Like Jamie Hill: Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: You just wanna go on about like a what? Point one percent of the population? And and when Jamie Hill: Yeah, something like that. Tabitha Zeigler: you when you present those types of numbers to people, they will stop for a second and they're like, point one per yeah. Like how how are we having this conversation right now? Like statistically, how man how many trans people do you know or have you heard of that has actually committed these crimes? So Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: Why then do you think this particular issue is being shoved down your throat? Like, is it possible that people are trying to direct you to this until instead of other things that are like directly affecting Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: your life? And I tell you, I've gotten into quite a few conversations like that and they do pause and normally we have a conversation about it. Because it's like I'm not here to make you do something or make you think away. But I am here to challenge that thought process and to like encourage critical thinking here. Like, are these people really bothering you? Because I remember when I was growing up in the Midwest, especially among the Republicans, it was very much like, you know, like what people do in their own bedrooms or whatever, like, not my business. And so I find it hysterical right now. I mean, it's tragic, right? But like Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: those of us that were gr that ru grew up in those type of communities, like Highly Republican, church on every corner, all that. Like way back when the Republicans were the ones saying, Hey, we don't want big government, we don't want you in our bedrooms, what like what you do over there, that's not my business. And to have it come full circle and have them be the ones that actually are wanting big government, that actually want big brother, that want to spy on you, that want in your bedroom, but they don't want to say it like that, but that's exactly what it is. Jamie Hill: Mm. Yeah, and like, you know, I voted Republican most of my life because where I lived, there were no Democrats on the local ticket. So if you wanted any say in your local elections, they were decided in the Republican primary because the Republican was going to be running unopposed in the in the generals. So that was that was where you had to make your your your vote. And you know, and I move in a lot of conservative spaces and You know, I had I had some people, you know, in the post first Trump era in the kind of like, my god, what happened to you? And it's like, or, you know, why why did you change your values? I'm like, I haven't changed my values or moved at all. The Republican Party just went way out there in right field and is doing something I don't understand. I didn't change my values. You're the one who keeps changing your values to chase this conservative, you know, mentality that has stopped being conservative. You you've swung past it, you know, tremendously. And yeah, you know, when I you know when I first came out, you know, I had I had some very conservative, you know, friends who, you know, one who would he asked some pretty good questions, you know, like he he was obviously trying to understand. And then, you know, there was a point of like basically he acknowledged that I wasn't the stereotype that Fox News had fed him about trans people. And that started to change his viewpoint on some things.

And, you know, that's the power of that visibility in the community is, you know, I know for a lot of people, I'm the first openly queer, nonbinary person that they've met. And, you know, I can challenge their assumption. And that's the first step in breaking through some of all of the propaganda that that we've been fed over all the years is, you know, being there in person, challenging that narrative on, you know, that I'm here to help you. Tabitha Zeigler: Right. Well, because I think a lot of people they don't even really understand the terminology and they think they're there's too many letters, I keep hearing. You know, and Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: there are so many groups now. I've heard this a lot lately, that we are now LGB minus the T. Like the there are a lot of groups that are dropping that and Jamie Hill: Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: I so then I have to give people a history lesson. And I'm like, Listen, if it weren't for the T, if it weren't for the trans community. The LGB would not exist. Like the trans community were the ones at Stonewall that were rioting, that were at the front of this whole movement. And I just find it extremely hypocritical to take a group of people that seem socially inconvenient at a time and just basically erase, whitewash history, whatever. but I consider myself a truth teller. I think, you know, I probably get it honestly. My grandpa was very much like that. And I'm like, no, like we're gonna tell the truth here. We're gonna be grown-ups. It might be uncomfortable for you, but we're actually gonna talk about it. Because if you're being dishonest with people, if you're giving them misinformation, like that hurts people. And that may lead to someone's ultimate demise, right? Like You may Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: have someone like some of like like yourself, like some of the k these kids that we were talking about, that they don't have everything that they need. And like we we could give it to Like we literally could save their lives by just being open minded, having these conversations. And if we're all brothers and sisters in Christ, right? That's what we are called to do, truly. Like Jamie Hill: Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: and this is what I always loved about Dolly Parton, and I have to give a little shout out because I think she is just the embodiment of of what those of us in church thought it's supposed to be, right? Like Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: you're supposed to, you know, walk with Christ, you know, what would Jesus do? Like I had the bracelets, I led choir, I was in Fellowship of Christianity, I did all of the things. Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: And t come to find out, like my need. for fairness was because I actually was part of one of those communities that I would often hear these horrible things about. So I Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: I sort of was an advocate and an activist before it I even knew because I thought the way I was raised, that is what God, that is what Jesus is calling me to do. And flash forward, you know, here I also run for Congress because I still think those things are not fair. You know, now I find out not only am I part of the LGBTQ plus community, I also have autism. And I'm like, all of Jamie Hill: Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: this pattern recognition is just matching great. Jamie Hill: Yeah, yeah, and that's you know, I've always been the one who's willing to say something on that is is the truth but gonna make people uncomfortable. probably why I never did real well in church leadership because I would I'd be like, Wait, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? This doesn't make any sense, you know? And I was always kind of challenging that. And you know, it's it's kind of ironic because when I was when I was in high school be you know, I was extremely shy. to just not my my wife jokes if it wasn't for actually one of my ex girlfriends pushing us together, I would still be flirting with her and she wouldn't know it. but you know I ran for student council president because the the person who was running and was going to be unopposed, I I kind of thought was an idiot. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna run. And here I am, you know, twenty some years later. Essentially doing the same thing of like, hey, this current representative is an idiot and somebody needs to run against him, so I guess I'm going to do it. Do I have any idea what I'm doing? No, but that's never stopped me before. I'll figure it out as I go along. And Tabitha Zeigler: Well that's why honestly, that's why I love this progressive movement. And I think when I started running for office, like I wasn't even entirely certain that I was progressive. But I found out very quickly that I was because I thought the things that I wanted for myself and my community are baseline. Like why wouldn't you want? Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: Everybody to have good health care, good education system, access to clean water. if something is coming into your community that threatens any of those things, it threatens everyone's health, everyone's security. And so the the things that I was running on seemed very baseline, right? Like data centers are sucking up all the water. I come from a farming community, you know, like I grew up with conservation areas that like they were bad. And then they did some work and they started to bring the bald eagles back and things like that. Like these are things that I saw in my lifetime. So then these became Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: platforms whenever I was running for Congress because I'm from there and I watched it. Like I'm from an area that basically got destroyed after NAFTA. So like because of lived experience, I could talk about these things and be like, right, if you're not from here and you don't really know. It's just conjecture. So I Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: became very controversial very fast. But I was like, hey, we're we're all from here. we should put them I

mean, I was saying we should put a moratorium on data centers like way, way early. I was like, no, these things are bad. They're not regulated, they're throwing them up too fast, they're throwing them up without public opinion. No. And and I was calling on the Republicans even and I was like, hey, like this is actually your lane. Like you used to be the people that would do this stuff. Just say, no, we're not doing that. And then to have you guys be the ones rolling them in unchecked, as like, hmm, interesting. Lots of hypocrisy here. So yeah, I I was that person too. I was just like always challenging the status quo, always pushing back. Because I think the baseline for a lot of these progressives like yourself and myself, we're like, We're we're in it for the long game, we're in it for the people. Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: And that's what's so compelling about all these candidates. Like when people ask me, What do you think about these candidates? I always tell them, Hey, if you don't know, pick the one with the least amount of money because if you send them to Congress or the Senate, they're gonna do the best job for you. Jamie Hill: Yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. You know, they they haven't Tabitha Zeigler: Yeah. Jamie Hill: they've they've proven they're not they're not viable. you know, that was that was one of my frustrations early on was the the the consultants telling y me that I need to stop talking to voters and only talk to donors. And you know, that my job was to only raise money and then pay people to talk to to voters for me. And I'm like, nah, that doesn't seem right, you know, and you know, money doesn't vote. in the end. And especially in my district, which is a huge rural district. It it was it's twenty all are part of twenty counties. so it's it's almost the you know most of the upper Michigan and of the lower peninsula. And you know it it's a huge area but our our current representative the Republican office last time he held an open to the public town hall was twenty seventeen. And everything since then has been carefully controlled PR events and that's it. And so it's like the frustration of the people in this county or in this district on both sides are we want somebody to just listen to us. And you can't do that when you're only listening to donors. And that that was Tabitha Zeigler: Yeah, they want someone that's gonna pick up the phone. Jamie Hill: Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, and then and it's like, okay, so we we tell congressional candidates that they're only supposed to talk to donors, and then we rank the viability of a candidate based on how much money they raise, then act shocked when they don't care about anybody who didn't write them a check. Like we've created the system. You know, and and one of the the things I touted is if, you know, Michigan's got a big push for getting money out of politics. There's a couple ballot initiatives, and then of course Abdul Al-Syed running on money out of politics. So there's it's a big point of conversation in Michigan right now. But it's like if we want corporate money out of politics, we have to put our money in to get people elected. And it and it's not it it doesn't have to be a lot. In even in my district that's a 6535 you know district, if everybody who voted Republican last you know election or voted Democrat the last election gave ten dollars that'd be like one point three million and that's a hell of a campaign and and it's ten bucks and that's that's how will we fix it? You know, ye even if if everybody who voted for me in the primary would have donated ten dollars to me, that would have been three hundred thousand dollars. And you know, so if we want these candidates, you know, that's been the big thing I've been pushing is go down your ticket and you know, for the average person in a rural America, you're talking like maybe five or six Democrats on the ticket and or any other candidate who's who's actually being decent, independent or whatever, give ten bucks. You know, you're out fifty or sixty bucks. I know some people can't afford it. If you can afford more, give twenty to make up for that other person. But like that's how we're gonna change politics, one way or the other, is make it so we're not dependent on the the corporate money until we can get enough people in to change the law. Tabitha Zeigler: Or like or and or right? Like if you really can't afford it, then help them with their social media, help share their Jamie Hill: yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: stuff, you know, help volunteer for the like there's just a myriad of ways that you can help out. And, you know, I my campaign was interesting that way too, right? 'Cause I ran on my own money because I was doing a principal thing. And I was like, you Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: know what? I'm gonna do all this myself. We'll see how it goes. And I finished second. And you know, it just goes to show that And this is my personal opinion now that I've been a on both sides of it, right? Civilian and candidate. If you are going to speak to the people, you have to be as authentic as possible. You have to walk the walk. You have to be steeped in integrity. You don't have to be a perfect person. You don't have to have a perfect past or any of that stuff. But when you get in front of these people, You tell them the God's honest truth because that's what they want to hear. And my Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: personal opinion is those are the people that are gonna win. You know, like some of us might not have won this cycle, right? But like this is, I think there's a bubbling up in American politics right now. And you can very clearly tell that the American public has had it. And there's been so much that has been brought to light, you know, like with the Epstein files and all this stuff. And it's just clear as day to everyone. It doesn't matter right now what political party you're part of, right? Like you said, you know, you

could self-identify as Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, no part, whatever. You're hearing the same things from people. Like, I'm unhappy, my life quality is bad, my health care is bad, everything's shutting down. I I can't afford to send my kids to school. I'm concerned about my grandchildren's future. Like all of that stuff. And then they will see like how much money we invest in the military or or AI data centers or we're, you know, giving tax breaks or whatever. And the general person right now is like, hey man, like I held up my end of the agreement. I'm paying my taxes. Now I expect something for it. And now I want to put someone in who's supposed to speak for me. Jamie Hill: Yeah, and I think that was one of my my biggest appeals is I stopped pretending to be somebody I wasn't, you know, when I transitioned. Like I I'm not doing that again. I am who I am. You get what you get. If you like it, great. If you don't, sorry. but you know, trying to pretend to be somebody else and fit everybody's needs just got me too close to suicide. And I'm like, I'm doing it again. And so, you know, I would walk into a space a hundred percent authentic to myself, which as a trans person, you get really good at that. And, you know, and it was it was always kind of kind of interesting because my my very primary challenger, very qualified person, you know, has experience, great, you know, great resume and everything, but was was kind of playing the politics and trying, you know, I could see him struggling to try to try to like Create an image. And then I'm rolling in to I don't care what event it was. I because I was usually coming from work. I had an untucked button down t shirt or a button down, you know, dress shirt. And I I I wear to the Vibram five fingers toe shoes. So that's how I rolled into literally every event was like that. I didn't care where it was, what was going on. Here I am, and this is me. And I'm gonna tell you what I believe in. And you know, if if this is uncomfortable to you, I'm I'm sorry. But like it's it's this is who I am and this is how I'm comfortable. And and even if you don't necessarily agree with me, people people respect that authenticity that I'm not trying to pretend to be somebody else. And and that was Tabitha Zeigler: I agree with you. Jamie Hill: that was really, you know, one of the steady you know, things that I heard, you know, from feedback from people and also just showing up in the first place. You know, I put forty five thousand miles on my car and in you know, basically a year and a half running this race, showing up to everything I could around the district. And, you know, and that's what I did instead of raising money is I put miles on the car talking to people. And, you know, we we did this race on about Not counting my wage because I didn't track that, but you know, but as far as fundraising and spending, less than sixteen thousand dollars. And I had forty we had we had a three-way primary, so I was a little

over thirty thousand. the the the winner had fifteen hundred more votes than me, and the third place candidate had about ten thousand votes, which is one of the largest primary turnouts for the Democratic ticket that this district has ever seen. 'Cause like the last primary, even though there was it wasn't a wasn't a contested primary, but there was only thirty five thousand Democratic voters in the last primary period. And then we had seventy thousand between us all. So it was definitely showed that we we pulled a lot more people in and got them invested in the race. Tabitha Zeigler: Well, I will say I love what Michigan's doing. Like I am like rooting for you guys down here in Indiana so hard. I I love what Abdul Al Sayyid is doing. I love the Michigan energy that they're just like, not today, Satan. Like you guys Jamie Hill: Yeah. Tabitha Zeigler: are you're really tearing it up. I'm proud of you all, honestly. I I always am hearing great things coming out of Michigan and I'm hopeful that at some point Indiana will start to turn up like that. But You know, something that's been happening in Indiana. I'm sure it's not only Indiana, but you have certain people that are higher parts of the ticket that are taking very centrist sort of stances. And then you have the rest of us, right? Like you have those Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: of us that are like, no, like it violates human rights. I'm not doing it. I'm not saying it. Like I don't care who else supports that, but I don't. So it might take us a few more tries, but I tell you, you know, Michigan, you're one of those states leading the way. So more power to you. Jamie Hill: Yeah, it's it's a it's an interesting purple dynamic in in in Michigan. You know, there's a lot of of rural areas and in Michigan in twenty twenty we we passed a nonpartisan redistricting committee, which, you know, made a huge difference 'cause the legislature was often called controlled by the Republicans due to gerrymandering. So that broke up and allowed for the first time in like forty years a a trifecta for the Democrats. Twenty twenty four, we lost the House. but still it it really made it viable. And and this year in Michigan, there was a Democrat on the ticket in every US Congress and every state house and state senate race in Michigan, which is the first time that anybody can remember that happening. So that's the first big step is you know, we can start start building, you know, of course There's the fight with the you know, the the the party establishment on they don't necessarily want c progressive candidates making too much waves. So that's a Tabitha Zeigler: Yeah, but we're the ones rattling everybody's chain right now and pushing them farther left Jamie Hill: And Tabitha Zeigler: for the American people. Jamie Hill: i and that's you know, that was, you know, what happened in in my race, you know, like initially when I jumped into this, you know, we talked about like, hey, if we get you know, if somebody else jumps into this race that we could totally get behind and you know, we would it then I'm out because I don't want I don't want it that bad, you know, and and but it is it never happened. And so it was like, all right, we're gonna do this. And yeah, I was able to drag the conversation pretty far left and really kind of force some of that reckoning of, you know, how do we engage with those more progressive groups? How you know, you in county parties we scream about not having young people, but then you consistently do stuff to drive the young people away. Like you have to stop that. because if you do They go start their own system, which is what we're seeing happening with, you know, indivisible groups, the DSA, all these other groups that are grabbing the young people and and leaving the Democratic Party to die. And it's like, well, I would love to have a multi-party system and get away with a lot of things. It's a system we have to work in right now. So you know, we need to keep those people engaged the best as we can. And I think we're seeing that turn happen now where, you know, so many young progressives have realized their only power in the Democratic Party is withholding their vote. And they're not learning that lesson in the establishment that, you know, if you run a establishment, you know, candidate who won't stand on anything, then what's the difference between them and the Republicans? it to a lot of of young progressives. So they're not gonna vote for them until they stop pushing progressive candidates out. you know, to to my congressional district's credit, you know, they did a really good job of staying out of the race as far as, you know, there was, you know, I know there was a lot of voices basically wanting me out of the race because You know, there was no chance that I could win. And, you know, we you know, the whole electability conversation, which was just a euphemism for am I too queer to win in this district? so we should all get behind the other candidate. And it's like, no, that's not you're missing the point of primaries. You know, the primary is to get us out there and and decide the direction of the party. And and you know, there was a lot of people when that was done who had to sit there and go, That was a whole lot closer than we thought it would be. Maybe we need to pay attention to this a little bit more because if I can hold a progressive, you know, queer candidate in this district that close, you know, when you know the the primary candidate was, you know, a str straight white guy, military experience, worked on the hill, you know, has staffed, has a Harvard degree, like like just looking at the political candidate, you know, checklist, it was a great resume. But and then you have me running as a queer person and but it came down to that authenticity is really the big thing, the autist authenticity and people want change. You know, and and I held out my lack of, you know, Washington DC experience as a plus

because Washington DC experience got us into this mess. Why do we think it's going to get us out? Tabitha Zeigler: I agree with you. And I think the job of the progressives right now is to continue to push them as far left as humanly possible because this is actually the baseline of what the American people want. Like we want Medicare for all. You know, we want people to take be taken care of. We want elder leave and we want, you know, universal child care. We we want, you know, higher levels of education to be accessible to our kids and to our grandkids. Like this is not a partisan thing. This is an American thing. Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: And so, you know, you have the extreme right who's pushing hard white Christian nationalist. And then you have people like us that are their worst enemy that were essentially raised by them and are fighting back now. And you know, that's terrifying to both sides, which I find hysterical because yeah, like I voted Democratic forever if I had an option because like I was gay and I was like, that's what we do, like. You know, we clearly Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: are not in the Republican Party. Like that's that's not a group that accepts us. So then we must be Democrats. And then to watch how they've flipped on the trans community and and other things. There's just a a myriad Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: of things that I've seen. I would say two of the biggest ones for me are, you know, their lack of spine on trans issues and genocide. I'm like, those are human rights things. Like, you can't be a Christian person of faith. humanist, humanitarian or whatever, and not piece that together. Like, how do you decide what group of humans goes over another group of humans? Like the the mental leaps that these people are having to to go through because of money, corporate donors or whatever. Like, I think that's what is really burning through the Democratic Party, especially the young ones, right? Because The younger ones, they're like, we have no future. Like we don't have any future. Like the older generations just like spoofed it for us. They're so greedy Jamie Hill: Mm-hmm. Tabitha Zeigler: and they don't care about anything. They don't care about, you know, our health care, our housing, the environment, treaties. they don't care about land back. They don't care about like indigenous communities, black communities, nothing. They don't care about anything. And they can just see it clear as day. So they're like, No, thank you. And we can't blame So then it will take people like us to be like, No, look, I'm not always gonna get it right, but I see you and I know that I have an obligation as like one of the elders to do something and I'm at least trying Jamie Hill: Mm. Tabitha Zeigler: to do something just to create a path for you. Right. Like my job by running amongst trying to make sure that doing all the things, right? Like I've got little kids and I wanna make a future for them. Jamie Hill: Yeah. Yeah. In in I mean it was something I said all the time that if you need a public opinion poll to tell you whose rights are worth defending, you don't deserve to be in office. Like that's that's just certainly not in the Democratic Party. You know, that you if you can't say with your full chest that everybody deserves human rights, then then you just need to go away. Like you don't belong in the party and I think we need to do a better job. in the Democratic Party of cleaning our own house. I know we like to say we're a big tent party, but there are some people who don't belong under the tent. You know, and and that's that's the people that the we can't tolerate intolerance. And and that's I think a a a struggle no matter how much money they bring. We can't we can't tolerate intolerance. And we've seen this so much with with democratic politicians that are very, very Pro trans, pro LGBTQ until they win their primary. And then they chase this mythical centrist voter that doesn't exist. Because the Republican Party has already proven they're going to vote Republican no matter who's on the ticket. We can't pretend to be conservative enough to win them over. And in an election year like this year, no. Tabitha Zeigler: we shouldn't be pretending. Like we've got the lane. That's what I find hysterical about these centrists right now. It's like the lane is open. Run with it. Like if you were ever going to stand up for anybody, now is your time. Like this is the time to do whatever it was that you thought about doing, do it now. Jamie Hill: Yeah. And and just stand on some principles. Any any principle. Like just pick something and and not move off of it. And you know, especially, you know, if you're if you're willing to throw trans people under the bus, who's the next person you're willing to throw under the bus? Who who are you willing to sacrifice to appease someone? And and that's I think the biggest the biggest flaw in the in the p Democratic Party right now. Is this a trying to appease everyone? And and then not standing on issues or not being prepared to address those issues, like trans issues with bringing actual facts and and you know information to the table and just basically trying to dodge the hard question. No, you need to stand up, show you know what you're talking about on the issues, and push back. And you know, we see that in in candidates that are actively pushing back. People respect that. It's it's not, you know, the when they go low, we go high, I think has run its course where we don't need to go as low as them, but sometimes you need to get in the mud and play a little bit to to make things happen and be willing to call out bad behavior no matter where it is. Tabitha Zeigler: I agree with you. Well, what are your future plans then? I'm curious to see what you're up to. And if you don't want to let anything out Jamie Hill: well. Tabitha Zeigler: the bag, that's okay too. Jamie Hill: So right now it's trying to finish remodeling my house that I started before I decided to run for Congress. so yeah, I mean as you know, running for c office just eats up every available second of your day. So you know, from now until November, obviously, you know, what happens in November makes a a big difference in any plans. And so that's gonna be my I'm going to work on the house and try to get that done. I always I said if I if I lost the primary, I was not leaving my house for three months. just because I I hadn't been there. And and then and then we'll see. you know, I have a lot of people who, you know really express interest in supporting me and running for something again. that's got to be balanced with the, you know, the stress on the family, you know, that You know, it's it's it's a struggle. You know, I've got, you know, a fifteen and a twelve year old and we're a homeschooling family. So that put a lot of I mean, they got a heck of a civics lesson over the last, you know, four year and a half. But so yeah, and you know, I'm gonna stay involved in in the process one way or the other. You know, right now I'm working with our local party trying to reach a lot of those progressives that I found on the campaign trail and tried to bring them to the party. And but yeah, there's there's conversations happening about what's going to happen in the future. But yeah, there's a a lot of moving pieces to try to figure that out. But definitely definitely going to stay engaged and involved. Tabitha Zeigler: Well very good. So if people want to get a hold of you where the where can they find you? I Jamie Hill: I still have all my social media accounts are active. So it's pretty much elect Jamie Hill on all platforms. our website's still up, electjamiehill dot com. I gotta actually change it to some fluffy you know, not running anymore, but that's been trying to catch up on all the other things. so yeah, that's the the best way to get a hold of me. you know, and I'm always willing to talk about, you know, trans issues, healthcare. politics or the intersection of all three of So yeah, and you know, offer advice or, you know, what little bits of wisdom I've picked up along the way. So Tabitha Zeigler: Well, I'm gonna ask you the same question I ask everybody. So we talked about a lot of things today. If people remember one thing about you, Jamie, what would what would you like them to remember about Jamie Hill? Jamie Hill: That you need to show up as your true authentic self because that's what the world needs to see. And to stop trying to pretend to be somebody you're not because it doesn't get you anywhere. Not anywhere you want to be anyhow. So if I can be the role model on that is just live your authentic self and that's gonna give you the opportunity to actually make a difference in this world. Tabitha Zeigler: I agree with you and thank you so much for coming on, Jamie. We will talk to you soon. See ya everybody. Jamie Hill: Alrighty. Yep, thank you.