The (co)Founding Founder의 전체 녹취록

been asking Devon to get in front of the camera and do a podcast. And just like you two together, making this a reality is huge. So yeah, let's try to keep it. You know, civil and professional and not emotional, but I'm so emotional right now. [00:03:26] Devin: I was gonna say, don't make us cry at the beginning. Um, please, please [00:03:29] LaShonda: don't, don't embarrass us, girl. [00:03:31] Devin: Let's wait till the end at least, or the middle. Well, thank you for sure. We're excited to have you. We, we obviously thought it made sense to have you as the inaugural guest of something worth building, not just because you're co-founder and CEO of Stencil, uh, and not just because you. Spent a lot of time with our season one guests, our initial Stencil cohort, but also because you have been a founder in kind of both eras of building a tech company [00:04:00] pre AI era or like the old fashioned way, I think is now how we're starting to see it and also in this new era of AI and are, are building in a much different way. So. We'll get into all of that. Your background, your background as a tech founder. A bit more we'll get into Stencil is and why you're building it. But first we wanted to take a pretty big step back and learn a little bit about younger Martha. So you grew up in Mexico, the oldest of four kids. Tell us what you were like as a kid. [00:04:29] Martha: Okay, so I am a very short human. Um, I'm four 11. Some people have corrected me, but 152 centimeters and I was, um, my nickname was Marta, the justice maker. Um, Marta Lara. And the reason is because I was very passionate about defending those that couldn't, couldn't defend themselves. So, um, this is a, a nickname that I gained in kindergarten. And it is because I had a pink lunch [00:05:00] bag, one of those like hard plastic lunch bags. And, um, every now and then, um, actually frequently, uh, there were, um, sort of like bullies, not really with bad intention, but just like kids that would bully others, and the others were very quiet and shy and didn't know how to defend themselves. So I would actually go and chase the bullies with my pink lunch bag and I would, um, yeah, and I would like terrorize them so that they would stop bullying, um, the people who couldn't defend themselves. So. So, yeah, so even though I'm very, very short, I've always been sort of like a fighter, especially when it comes to, um, I think anything from justice to just making sure that, uh, everyone's included. I. [00:05:45] Devin: Why does that not surprise [00:05:46] LaShonda: me? I'm not surprised. Girl. Same thing. I'm like, you are so feisty. Always have been, always will be. You are also one of the most ambitious women I have ever [00:06:00] met in my entire life. So we really wanted to ask you, how did your ambition and your love for justice influence things at Flodesk? [00:06:13] Martha: I think it's just the same thread, right? So if, if we're talking about software, and even now

at Stencil we're talking about access to being a tech founder. Um, it it's about leveling the playing field. So when we started Flodesk, what we were realizing was that, um, the, the brands that were really killing it at email marketing were those that had a lot of resources. So resources in terms of either a lot of capital or maybe a big team. Um, and then the people who really needed email marketing to convert and, and make money for their businesses, um, didn't have access to it. So they were stuck with tools that just weren't really doing the job. And that's mostly what sparked the, I would say, passion behind starting flow disk. Um, how can [00:07:00] we give the, the, like the tools, the marketing and sales tools that the big brands have to succeed? Um, how can we make that accessible to all of the, the brands that we really believe should be the ones that are making money? And I also think that it ties back to Mexico because growing up there, um, all the brands were very. Unique and very much about craft. So you would walk to the corner and there's like a, a mom and pop owned, uh, coffee shop or a grocery store and everything had its own design and its own expression. And I think, um, growing up. One of the trends that, you know, like you keep noticing is that the world is just becoming so homogenous. Like all of a sudden there's Starbucks and there's Walmart, and there's Amazon, and we're losing this craft. So that was another really big passion behind Flodesk, um, being able to empower small businesses to succeed so that the future of business is small and not these major conglomerates [00:08:00] that just sort of take away the soul of the business. [00:08:05] Devin: I remember you saying a lot. Flodesk that you wanted. A mom who has a busy life as a mom and a business owner to be able to sit down at their dinner table with their laptop and themselves and be able to build marketing plans, strategy that could compete and, and obviously emails could compete with any big brand. And I think a mission accomplished for you guys. Uh, building Flodesk. We've seen so many. Small business owners really be able to, uh, take beautiful, wonderful representative marketing campaigns to market. So mission accomplished. Um, okay, you stepped down as CEO of Flodesk, and from what I recall, you planned to take a break. [00:08:54] Martha: I did [00:08:54] Devin: from hustling professionally, and it looks like that didn't happen. So what happens? [00:09:00] Not at all, to change your mind. [00:09:03] Martha: Okay. So a lot of things. First, I think a break is romantic. Um, it's just like the idea that you're just not going to do anything in reality. I don't even think I was like, I thought my, I, I thought that I would be a better mom, for example, if I spend all of my time being a mom. But the reality is that, um, like the diversity of, of juggling in life makes me a better mom. So I think there's, there's that, like I romanticize the idea of a

break. Um, but beyond that. It's what I really discovered. So I was, um, I was actually really, um, torn about ai. Uh, I wasn't really pro or anti. I think I was both pro and and anti. And the reason is because, um. On one hand, you're seeing this technology that is so exciting and all of a sudden everyone is adopting like nothing has been adopted this quickly. And at the same time, you're hearing how damaging it is for the [00:10:00] environment or reading about how like the end of human. Civilization as we know it could be, um, caused by AI robots in the future. And I fundamentally believe that that could be true. Um, actually there's research that shows that data centers, AI data centers create, um, an island of heat that increases the temperature in the nearby areas by nine degrees Celsius, which is not just impossible for the people that are around the data center, but impossible for the rest of humanity. So it is like the threats are very real and. Regulation doesn't really exist, hasn't really kept up. So I needed to find out what is true and what can we actually do about it, and how can we actually use it and leverage it if, if, if it makes sense. So I enrolled in a post grad and I'm still enrolled a graduate next year, and I learned a lot about, um, regulation and about the real threats and how AI has been around. For ages, I mean like seriously, like hundreds of years. And, [00:11:00] and the first expressions were like, just like computers that would trick you into believing that they were human. And then it went through, um, several different winters. And then it came back. And I even remember when I was living in San Francisco more than 10 years ago, we had friends that were working on, uh, a way to. Discover new proteins, um, using ai. So it's, it's really old, but all of a sudden everything's changing and everyone's adopting it. And gen AI just like changed the, the world, right? So I, I went and I learned a lot about it. And as I was getting deeper and deeper into the field of ai, I noticed that there was a massive split between how men were approaching AI and how women were approaching ai. The men, I, I don't wanna say the tech bros, but in reality it's sort of like that stereotype. They were very comfortable using AI for anything and everything, and they were starting to create, um, apps and businesses that nobody asked for. And I'm not saying that that's like wrong. I just [00:12:00] think that if AI is that delicate and um, we need to be careful then that, that was a very like. A very different approach than, than I was observing with women who were completely the opposite. And it's not everyone, and I know I'm generalizing, but in, in general, like truly as a, as a, as a generalization, they were, um, stepping away from even touching ai. They did not want to touch it. They didn't understand it, and they felt that it wasn't responsible for them to use it. But the challenge, and here's what was really interesting, is that most of these women. Have been nurturing community for more than 20 years. They're business owners as well. They know exactly what's broken in software. They know how to solve it, and they know who needs it, but they're not touching ai. So that to me was, um, a really big contrast. And in reality it, it felt like something needed to be done about it, and more and more it felt like. Um, I, I wanted to do something about it, like this is, [00:13:00] um, how do you say, like, this feels like a life mission and, um, and it just blends everything together, right? Like, for, for my entire life, my favorite thing to do is to help people start a business. And if that's a software business even better because. The, the software, like the way that software works with monthly recurring revenue, it's like there's so much freedom. It grows so much larger. You can have a huge impact if you scale to millions of people. So it just felt like these moment where I needed to do something about it, and I was in, in a position where I had access to the best engineers in the world through my relationship with Oz at HoneyBook, and he believed in Stencil right away. And he said, you know what? We'll fund it. Like you don't even have to go get investors. Like, we'll, we're all in. We'll help you, um, create Stencil. We'll, we'll literally like give you some of our best engineers. And they're now my co-founders and they've done a lot of work with LLMs and with ai, and they're genuinely like top 1% [00:14:00] engineers in the entire world. Because we were going to solve this challenge, then we needed the best team. So that's how Stencil was born. And it was the perfect storm, just like all the ingredients were there. The passion was there, the moment was there, and we felt that. Um, this is one of those things that you just, I, I have no problem failing at, but I really, genuinely want to succeed because if we do, then that means that we get to change the power of who gets to be a tech founder and the wealth and the, and everything that comes from it. It has a ripple effect, right? Because if you put the right founders in, in, in the seeds of power, then all of the decisions that they make after that will change as well. So. The hiring decisions, the firing decisions, the, what do you say I for? What Do you not use AI for the way you put human in the center? So it's a big statement, a big philosophy. Maybe it's a little bit political, but it's a reality. [00:14:51] Devin: There's so much good stuff that you touched on. I wanna dig into a couple of them. The first one is that you [00:15:00] were in your seeking out more information about ai. You said, I saw that most, there were mostly men who were engaging and the way they were engaging was, you know, mostly creating things that nobody wanted. And I, it's an interesting part of the conversation because there's. As you mentioned so much, uh, risk and so much of the, of the realities around ai. Can be negative

and scary and things that we should take very seriously. And there's a lot of people who feel that abstaining from AI is the way to change that. And you obviously feel that it's actually engaging is the way to change, and I think there's a lot. I'm gonna ask you to dig into that a little bit more because I do think. As we discover more about the models and how they behave, they're obviously being trained by the people who engage with them. So if it's only men who are engaging with the models and only men who are building businesses, then the models are learning what that looks like. And to, to what you just said about hiring, firing all changes dramatically [00:16:00] when more people, more diverse people get involved. So can you dig a little bit more into kind of that discovery when it really hit you and, and. Take us through that thought process. [00:16:11] Martha: Yeah, of course. So I was spending a lot of time trying to convince my friends to start businesses and several AI builders already existed. So I think that's where I realized that when I was talking to women that had a really great idea, for the most part, um, they would sort of freeze and they're like, yeah, but this is not for me or like me, tech founder, of course not. Like I would have to. Have an MBA or you know, go to school for that. And I don't know the first thing about building with ai, so they would just. Even though they had the right distribution, um, the right problem to solve and the right idea, they would just not take the leap. And meanwhile, um, I remember getting approached by a lot of my guy friends, even like in person, even on LinkedIn and saying, Hey, I have [00:17:00] this really cool, um, idea of a business that I'm going to build and launch. And I would talk to them and I would really think, like, has anyone asked for these? Um, or, or, what problem are you trying to solve? And for the most part it was, it, it sounds like I'm, you know, shitting on them. And I'm, I really am not. I think entrepreneurship is so beautiful and everyone should, but it's just a trend that I kept noticing. And I think that in reality, the, the women that I talk to. Um, would feel more comfortable being the affiliate of the software company. And that's where I think that was exactly the moment where I think it hit me where there's, there's a disconnect because the tools are available for everyone and there's a bigger barrier than just a technology that's getting in the way. [00:17:47] Devin: Well, and even the technology itself I think has gotten in the way of that. I was talking to someone recently who said, I've used a lot of different vibe coding platforms, and they felt very techie and I, [00:18:00] they said, I've really enjoyed building with Stencil. And I asked why? And they said, because it felt like a platform for me to build a business, not a platform for me to build an app. It didn't feel like I was working with. A, a techie platform. It felt like it understood

me. It asked really thoughtful questions. So how did all of that go into what you guys decided to build with Stencil and some of the decisions that you've made around building a a, an AI platform for some of these founders who maybe have been a little bit nervous to engage with technology? [00:18:34] Martha: Yeah, so first the technology itself is very different. Um, we're exclusively working on doing SaaS, no prototypes, no demos, no internal tools, anything like that. Um, the product itself is basically, um, different as well. Like it gives you, instead of giving you all the options, like unlimited pieces to figure out it, it chooses them for you. Um, we have no, [00:19:00] there's no lock in, so it's not like, um, like we're building it in a way that you can, you can either build something small and stay with us or build something big and stay with us or move it elsewhere as well. Um, and uh, and I think the other piece is, and maybe like a major piece is community as well. So outside of the technology, every single dollar that we're spending on on is community. So I think that makes a really, really big difference because you're not building alone, you're learning the lessons that you need to learn. Um, I don't know if that's where you wanted me to go with that, maybe. [00:19:36] LaShonda: Well, and I would say too, Martha, like when you reached out to me about trying Stencil for the first time, [00:19:42] Martha: yeah. [00:19:42] LaShonda: I'm like, girl, I did not have aspirations of building no software. Ironically enough, I told the internet I was taking a break this summer and they were, you go sliding into my DM saying. I have an idea and you know, I [00:20:00] think when you were talking about how women will default to being that affiliate for the tech company before thinking of themselves as a tech founder. I think what that really boils down to is we're so used to nurturing and supporting that we don't always see ourselves necessarily taking the spotlight. And so I think what was so special about the summer and then early fall when the first Stencil cohort got to get together, we started to realize like we just needed someone to encourage us to dream bigger. I think that is a consistent thread with you, Martha. Like you think you have a big idea until you tell Martha and then you just amplify it and just enlarge it and show us what's possible. And so I think that's a special thing about Stencil is that you can either come in with an idea or you can ask your friends like, what do you think about this? Like, should I even build this? Do you have this problem? And I think from the very beginning, people are bringing their communities [00:21:00] and bringing. Their intuition to the table and saying, okay, I think, I think this can work. And watching people go from that idea to something that people can log into is just like, I got a voice note from my second paid customer, and she's like, I couldn't believe it. It worked. It

worked. And so what a very interesting, incredible opportunity that you're giving to people who maybe never saw them in that light. So I'm just really glad that Stencil exists. And I think also you having that perspective of having a tech company before Stencil has really changed the trajectory of where stencil's going. So I wanna know if you had to look back like what are the lessons that you're gonna take from your first founder journey into your second? [00:21:48] Martha: Okay. I mean, I would say all of them because subconsciously, like they're all coming whether I want to or not. The good, the bad. Um, I think two that come to mind right away are, um, goals and customer [00:22:00] obsession. So the first one is goals. I think that there's a lot of freedom in having the right company goal that genuinely aligns with the success. Of the customer, and I'll give you a very spec specific example. So at Stencil, our goal right now is 100 by 100. So 100 paying users of Stencil who each have 100 paying recurring subscribers each. So this means that, um, we are not successful if we grow our revenue or if we grow our top of funnel, but we're not making the builder successful. And um, and that changes everything. It changes how we build the product. It changes where we choose to invest. Um, I'll give you a very specific example. So we're planning our Black Friday Cyber Monday campaign, and we heard from our builders that they need help with growth and that's core to where we want to make a really big difference. So. We [00:23:00] jump on with our performance, um, agency, the agency that handles paid ads, and we're pitching them this campaign where we put our budget behind the offers that our builders have. And they say, okay, but if you, if you do that, then the new users will go to their apps and not yours. So you're actually sacrificing Stencil growth so it doesn't make sense and. Because of our goal, um, we're able to realign everyone and explain why this campaign could be the most impactful for our business because, um, they wanted us to send the traffic to, uh, a website that displays all the offers where we can show like a big banner for Stencil, where like that actually decreases conversion for our builder. And what we want is for our builders to reach their 100 paying subscribers because that's our goal. So selfishly and selflessly, we really want this campaign to be as successful as possible for the builder. So if we didn't have the [00:24:00] right goal, I think it would be really easy for us to listen to the agency and say, okay, yeah, you're totally right. Let's. Let's, let's go back and, and make this a growth campaign for Stencil. But the reality is that there are a lot of vibe coding platforms out there, and we know, um, almost directly from their leadership teams that they're, they're doing a great job at prototyping, but they're, they could count with one hand the number of builders that are actually making real money, um, launching SaaS. For Stencil. That's been the opposite experience. We're already seeing people, um, that go from zero. Like I didn't even think that I wanted to be a tech founder to launching something within a couple of months and making, I think 200,000 in annual recurring revenue Right. Within like weeks of launching. So, um, I think it's, I think it's the opposite. And being able to, to commit to, to doing that and having the right goals that support the success of the builders has been. A lot of freedom and I think I'm, I'm bringing that from my experience, um, founding something before. [00:25:00] And another one is customer obsession and. I think this is big, right? I think in the end of the day, a business is solving a problem for humans, for people, and everyone in the team needs to be obsessed with the people that you're serving. So every single engineer that we have is customer facing, like not customer facing, as in they're joining a meeting and visiting in, like they're the ones that are carrying the customer relationship. Every non-engineering hire that we've made so far and that we'll probably continue to do in the future is community. Community and go to market, community and product experience. But every single person, including myself, is focused on community. I think that that's the only way that we can, we can throw away the playbook that, um, that doesn't exist in this AI world and, and succeed, you know, so that those two. [00:25:51] LaShonda: Well, we feel that too because I remember like Maya was the first person in our cohort to actually like hit publish and [00:26:00] start selling it. And the way that we all rallied, I mean, we were all sharing in our stories and tagging her and celebrating her wins. And I just remember coming back and slack and just seeing. How it felt for her to be so supported by other builders. I don't think that there is a single AI company that is simultaneously leveraging technology and amplifying human relationships. Like I feel like both are working in tandem, and I think that's what makes it stand apart. 'cause people ask me all the time like, why should I be using this versus somebody else? And I'm just like. There are people first company, like you can feel it in the way the interface works. And you know, even Scott immediately trying to add a community aspect to the back end so builders could talk to builders and we're sharing prompts and we're giving each other tips for what we can do. And so I just think, you know, when you can build a business without being in isolation. That's what's going to sustain you [00:27:00] for the long term. Anything built in isolation is just going to be like a flash in the pan, and so I'm excited. To see how more and more tech founders just take over the AI landscape that have community first, you know, in their mind. Um, 'cause I think it's really gonna change the game. So I'm grateful you feel that way 'cause we're obsessed with you guys too. You

know, we love our Stencil merch, we love calling each other STEM pals, so I think it's an incredible start and something you guys should be proud of. [00:27:30] Devin: And it's something that I remember being built into the fabric of the company. You know, we sat as a a team in Portugal and talked about what our values are and we talked about what we want people to feel when they engage with us as a company, not just when they use the product, but when they engage with us. And one of the things that was brought up is. To be held by engineers. So when you, yes, vibe coding makes it a lot easier to [00:28:00] not have to spend hundreds of thousands or, you know, fundraise hundreds of thousands of dollars and then hire a whole team of engineers. And yet we want people to feel really held by real engineers who are helping them. And I'm super curious from your perspective, Martha, what has it been like to witness engineers be so hands-on with the builders? And obviously you talked about its core part of customer obsession, but as a witness to it, what has that felt like to you? [00:28:28] Martha: Yeah, I think that. I just think it's so cool because it's a very different way of building than pre ai. And I think that, um, in pre ai, most of the code would, like most, most of the time of, of an engineer would be spent on code. And now agentic code can actually get you so far, um, that. Like even for, um, philanthropic and open ai, like they've published stats, like 90% of their code is now agentic. So this is really cool [00:29:00] because it frees up the engineering time and I think that, um, a lot of vibe coding, um, companies will give you the message that you don't need to hire engineers. You can do these without engineers. You don't need to hire humans. You can do these without designers. And I believe it's fundamentally the opposite. I think that if you're vibe coding, you a hundred percent need an engineer. Like, especially if you're not an engineer, you're, you're going to be creating something and you have no idea if the code is secure, if it's going to scale, like what happens if you go viral overnight. Um, then when you're putting this out there into the world. Like a lot of it has sensitive information. Or for example, um, Elena and Rachel, they're building a CRM for school photographers. There's, um, kids photos in there, right? So you, you do need to, um, have a lot of attention to what's in the code and what are some of the potential risks. So, um, so being able to build something where. The technology is top, but also the engineering [00:30:00] team is top, is just amazing because like, these are people that, A, love our builders, that's like a higher and fire requirement. Um, but B, like genuinely understand what is the problem that they're trying to solve. Um, what are their wildest dreams and how do we make this possible? They're, they're like running, um, security tests when the builders are asleep just to make sure that everything's sound. So it's just this really beautiful partnership that I don't think would've been possible in a pre AI world. I also think that the idea that you can vibe code something and. Launch it without some sort of like human or engineering help. It's just like false because, um, in the end of the day, like something will break. This happens in SaaS, like tech companies break the largest tech companies break all the time. And when something breaks, what do you do right At that point, like you have a lot of people paying you and trusting you, and you need to be able to reach out to someone that can help you resolve the problem. And I don't think that. AG agentic [00:31:00] code in itself is able to resolve most of the challenging problems that do come with not just vibe coding, um, SaaS platforms, but even like human coding SaaS platforms. So I think that's, um, that's just really important and fun. It's been really fun. And our team, I mean, our, just think our team is next level. I think that these are like the best people that I've ever worked with in my entire life, [00:31:21] Devin: and they're, everyone is so. Caring and truly kind. One of the things it, it makes me emotional to think back on is seeing one of the engineers say to a builder on Slack, you're not alone. I'm here with you. And that comment I think goes a really long way when you're talking to somebody who is doing something scary and doing it for the. Time and they're taking a risk and stretching themselves and sitting there telling themselves that they're capable of something they didn't know they were. And that can feel super isolating. I'm sure Lashawna, I'm sure you can speak to that even, even more, but [00:32:00] the just witnessing somebody say. I'm here to help you. You're not alone, was really moving for me. And I think that that level of humanity and human engagement and engaging at the emotional level with builders is something that I agree has been next level to witness and something that I really admire about everyone that's on the team. [00:32:24] LaShonda: Well, and it's even to the point where some of us like refer to them as like our work husbands. Like we are building this thing together. And I, I think it's important for people to know, you know, troubleshooting tech has, you know, with my background being a B2B tech creator, I live in tutorials. I live in the universe of, let me show you what to do when this breaks because it will. And so the idea of. I can build a software and when I run into problems, I don't have to troubleshoot alone. I mean, that takes a huge load off to be able to send [00:33:00] in that help ticket and see them caring and compassionately helping you to find a solution and sometimes build a solution to fix the problem. 'cause you found a bug or what have you, like it's almo. It feels too good to be true. I'll be honest with you. Like when you run into that, it's just like I. How am I getting this level of access?

And so I think that's the beauty of the engineers, having that spaciousness to say, Hey. I actually am available, I can actually deal with this problem for you. And so when I see like other members of the cohort run into issues where in the past, oh my gosh, we would lose our hair, we, you know, wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I mean, things are being solved so quickly because there is such a compassionate group of people waiting to help us. And it's, it's a really incredible feeling. So I think even, um, one of the questions that we got in the chat, I think that now is actually a really good time to bring it up, is, Martha, what tip would you give to someone who's nervous or [00:34:00] anxious or even scared about getting started with their own app? Because there is a lot of fear of hopping into something new and being a beginner. [00:34:08] Martha: I agree. Whew. Okay. So believe in yourself and also, um, validate. So I'm sure someone here has heard of the company Zappos. Um, but I'm sure what you haven't heard is that before the founder created this whole, um, beast of an e-commerce. Store and company, um, he would actually, he actually validated what is called an MVP, so the minimum viable product or minimum lovable product. And this is just like, what is the fastest, easiest, potentially cheapest way to confirm or validate your hypothesis. So for the Zappos founder, the hypothesis was people want to buy shoes online. Instead of going all in and spending a lot of money, building a company and building the tech and hiring people, he would just go to, um, to physical shops in his [00:35:00] neighborhood and, um, take photos of shoes, and then he would post those. Photos of shoes on his site. And when someone would buy a shoe, he would drive himself back to the store, purchase a pair of shoes, and then ship them. So like practically faking that there was an online store, he wasn't saying that that was happening. Like it looked like a legitimate online shoe shop. Um, but this was like a very fast way to validate whether people wanted to do, um, what you wanted to build or people wanted to buy what you wanted to build. So I think. To me, that's probably, um, the easiest way to get confidence. Like if, if you can find a really quick way to validate that you're solving a problem that this is not a nice to have, this is not a vitamin, this is a true painkiller, um, then, then that fuels you. That the, the moment someone tells you, you're solving a problem for me, it becomes bigger than yourself, then it becomes a social responsibility to actually build it. So, um, yeah, that just gives you fuel for, for the highs and the lows.[00:36:00] [00:36:02] Devin: We've talked a lot about this concept of an MVP and how a lot of the early adopters of Stencil have been business owners with service-based businesses and how there's this. Hurdle that we see them have to get over mentally where they're used to taking a perfect product to market, one that they have poured years of experience in. They are asking people to pay for something that is completely done. And with software you can't do that. You can't wait until it's completely done because then by the time you get it to market, it's probably irrelevant. Or people are coming in and giving you a lot of feedback that makes you wanna completely redo everything and pull your hair out. Um, tell us about having these conversations with the builders. Um. Tell us. [00:36:53] Martha: I mean, we just think that that is the nature of, of doing business, right? Like you, you put yourself out there. [00:37:00] Sometimes it's crickets and sometimes it's not. And I think that, um, this is where not building a loan is, is really big. It's really important. Like even if, if you don't have a community of tech founders, like being able to like even DM or call one friend that understands is really important. I think in general, um, we do keep hearing about the MVP. I think that the challenge and maybe the danger. Is that AI makes it so easy to build whatever you want so fast. Um, that a lot of times if you, if you haven't learned about SaaS, like I, there's a book Lean Startup. It's super old, right? And it's like sort of, um. All of the basic lessons of, of building a tech startup, and it talks about the MVP, right? But unless you've been in this, um, industry, you, you haven't really read it, you haven't really heard about these, these concepts. So, so you start building and then you realize. Um, okay, well [00:38:00] there's one more thing that they're going to ask for or people actually ask for it, and then your response is to build it. And there are a couple of challenges here. So, number one, just because you can build a full Slack platform doesn't mean that you should. Slack has. Like thousands of of employees that are working on supporting every feature that are working on supporting the customers, um, accounting operations. So just because you can build it doesn't mean that you should because you're actually not setting yourself up for success. Um, you if, if you build them MVP and then put it out there and let people pay for it, you actually fund more features and more. Team members and more support with that revenue, and then that brings you more customers and it's sort of like a very sustainable, healthy way of building versus trying to do everything that a company that's worth billions is doing. And I think the challenge is that it's not, it's not very intuitive. And AI makes it so easy for you to, to just like build more [00:39:00] and, and the same thing is the same thing happens once you're launched and you're going to hear from your customers, especially if they're moving from a competitor, that there are features that are missing. And the challenge is that this doesn't always mean that you have to build them. I think that if you end up building everything, then maybe you end up being the competitor and that's the whole. You

know, reason for building something that you wanted to build it simple, that you wanted to build it differently. So I think being able to, like one of the biggest lessons is being able to understand, um, what is it that, that the customer is really struggling with? What is their pain? And asking why five times is one of the best ways to get it. Like, as really generally understanding what is happening and why they need a feature. A lot of times they don't actually need the feature. They just need either to, um, solve a problem in a very different way or they don't even have a problem to solve. So. Um, so yeah, so there's a lot that. It's counterintuitive that, um, the world of AI and the speed of AI makes it harder to do. But this is, this is why to [00:40:00] me, um, this is my favorite part about working with the builders that we have currently in Stencil because they, for the most part, will prioritize sustainable ways to grow. They are experts in their field. They know how to launch, they know how to talk to customers. Um, I just think that they're, they're brilliant. They know what to do and, and the fact that they help each other and support each other, like, I've never seen a group of people love each other and support each other so much. Like, celebrate the first subscriber as if it was their own, you know? And, and there's like, there's hard times too in, in joining a call. And being able to say, I'm tired. I'm, I'm defeated, I'm exhausted, I'm sad. Instead of the usual, oh, I'm, I'm great. How's everyone else? You know, like having that sacred space has been, I think a huge difference. So I. Yeah. [00:40:51] Devin: Yeah. You once gave someone permission to say, I'm really frustrated guys, and I think that that that goes a long way. Okay. You've talked about [00:41:00] very practical tips for builders. For the last question that we wanna ask you, I want you to speak to a builder's heart. So. Imagine that there's someone listening who hasn't started building something. They have this idea in the back of their mind, but they have the thoughts, it could never be me. I couldn't do it, and they have a list of 10 reasons why. What do you want to say to that person? What do you want them to know? [00:41:25] Martha: I am going to do something that you probably didn't expect and ask you to answer that question because I know. I know you know, I know you have an answer and I know I'm gonna make you cry, but you did say it. Wait until the end. [00:41:38] LaShonda: Yeah. Come the waterworks. Why you had to do that? We got all the way to the end. [00:41:44] Devin: Okay. We did [00:41:45] LaShonda: say, well, Devin, you kick it, you kick it from here, [00:41:46] Devin: girl. You got this. Okay. I wanna say to that person, I have witnessed at least 20, but way more. [00:42:00] People, most especially women over the past couple of months in their fear, in their doubt, in their imposter syndrome, show up with their expertise and remind each other that people will pay them for what they are good at, not pay them for what the person is good at. To think about the unique gift that they bring into the world and feel worthy of bringing that gift to market in a new way, asking people to pay money for it, and celebrating people deeply along the way. And all of these people. Our finding and building towards success, and none of them had done this before and all of them did it scared and all of them did it busy and all of them did it with a fully functioning, thriving business already that didn't require them to have an additional means of income. They did it because they are capable [00:43:00] just as you are capable and. You're just gonna have to do it scared. And fortunately, there's a whole host of hundreds of people soon, I'm sure. Thousands of people in the sensible community who will be cheering you on along the way. Um, holding you both emotionally, but also technically, and you don't have to go through the process alone. So. I made it through without crying. Come be [00:43:27] Martha: debatable. I love [00:43:30] LaShonda: you. Well, and here's the thing. I think this is, this is such a special moment because I think that even just the three of us on this episode is such a good representation of what the Stencil community is like. You know, you can be that feisty, ambitious woman that is talking about it like it's real. When it's just an idea. You can be, you know, a softy like Devin who just wants to make the world a better place and you can be somebody like me. That's [00:44:00] so used to being the hype woman for everyone else. It is scary to be in the spotlight and there's space for you. And so I think that is honestly why we even wanted to call this podcast what we did because honestly, I genuinely believe, in my heart of hearts, we all have something worth building. Whether you build software or not is your choice, but I do think there is something empowering about being an entrepreneur, about seeing a problem and saying, I. Feel the responsibility to create a solution. And software just makes it easier. Software makes it easier for you to scale your impact, and I think AI is making it more accessible to people and groups that did not have this accessibility before. So there are people talking about AI in different ways with different perspectives, but I think the unique vantage point that we all have in the Stencil community is that AI can produce something good in the world. And so we [00:45:00] genuinely want you guys to be thinking about as you walk away from this episode and you get going for your day and for your week, do you have something worth building? And if you want to be a part of the central community, if you want that support. They're even going to give you some free credits to create your MVP. So like literally it's free 99, you got no excuse. Um, but we want you, we want you in the community. We want you to express your creativity through the power of technology. And that is something that I have personally experienced. I'm so used to talking about other people's software to be able to be behind the curtain. Baking my frameworks and workflows into the software myself is probably one of the most empowering things I've done in my career. And so I don't wanna shut up about it. And so that's why I asked Martha, can we create a place so that we can talk about it. So we're so grateful that you guys were here live for the [00:46:00] first episode. We are going to distribute this on the traditional platform. So if you wanna listen back to it when you need a little pep talk, we'll be there for you on all the platforms. Um, but ultimately we really do want you guys inside of the Stencil community if you believe that you have something worth building. So thank you Martha, for being our Guinea pig, for being the first episode for taking the time. Woo. Oh my gosh. It, yeah, this is surreal. This is surreal. Um, we're probably gonna go weep right now. Um, so as I like to say on the channel, my friends, until next time. tata for now. [00:47:00] now.