Equipping Communities for Recovery: Inside Tennessee’s Lifeline Peer Project의 전체 녹취록

Youngbloom, and I have the pleasure of serving as the Director of Strategic Initiatives for the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services. 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:50.080 I oversee various community-based programs, including our Office of Faith-Based Initiatives with Jamie. 00:02:50.240 --> 00:03:02.159 I oversee our Tennessee Recovery Navigator Program, along with other items such as medication assisted treatment in emergency departments and our Pathway Scholarship Initiative. 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:03.199 There are much more. 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:19.439 I like to say that my position is a jack of all trades, but really it's a position that affords me the opportunity to help our department and our state identify areas and needs that aren't being met and piloting programs that may meet those needs. 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:21.039 I'm Jamie Harper. 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:28.319 I'm the director of the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives through Tennessee Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services. 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:39.520 Oversee the Lifeline Peer Project coordinators, hybrid lifeline coordinators, faith-based coordinators, and collegiate recovery initiatives. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:58.400 Between our mission and vision, it's like our biggest thing is we want to make sure that people who have mental health or substance use issues that they're able to thrive in their communities. 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.360 So we're here today to talk specifically about uh the Lifeline Peer Project. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.240 I think people in the space have become familiar with y'all. 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:10.800 Uh, but for those in my audience who are not, uh just a brief overview and we'll go from there. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:19.839 Well, brief overview, and this is really of the Office of Faith-based initiatives, which includes the Lifeline Peer Project. 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.920 The initiative itself began uh in 2014, in August of 2014. 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:33.439 It was under the vision of the Deputy Commissioner Marie Williams at that time and Commissioner Doug Barney. 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:48.240 Now, it was a couple of years that they were talking about an opportunity to really leverage the faith community in the state to be able to provide services to individuals struggling with substance use disorder. 00:04:48.959 --> 00:05:00.959 And then Commissioner Barney believed that the faith community could and really should be at the front line of combating substance use disorders, especially with a rise in opioid misuse and overdoses. 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:12.399 So Commissioner Barney, Deputy Commissioner Williams went out, they were heard this guy was supposed to be speaking and they need to go listen to him. 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:13.600 They saw Dr. 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:21.040 Monty Burke speak about his personal path to recovery, as well as the role of the faith community and how they played in the process. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:25.040 And they're just like, okay, that's the guy. 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:33.199 So since then, and at that time, the Department of Mental Health created the first director of faith-based initiatives. 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:45.920 His responsibility was really to reach out to local communities, congregations, and engage them in discussion of what it means to support individuals who struggle with substance use disorders. 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:56.879 Now, the result is there's been a huge increase of awareness around mental health challenges as well as substance misuse as behavioral health challenges. 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:01.519 And that way it really increases the opportunities for partnership and collaboration. 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:12.560 So since its inception in 2014, I believe they started with four lifeline peer project coordinators. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:25.040 Now we have 10 lifeline peer project coordinators, 10 hybrid lifeline coordinators, seven faith-based coordinators, and one collegiate recovery director. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:40.480 So we're really operating in a lot of different areas of the community and able to encompass in one way or another all 12 sectors of each community with specific focus on the faith community. 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.480 It's a lot of coordination and effort. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.600 Why is this so important and impactful to coordinate like this? 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.639 Well, coordinated piece is extremely important. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:59.360 And it almost seems as if the more individuals we have involved in the coordination of events, the more of the community that actually attends. 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:15.040 And so being able to reach out and to actually learn the formula of reaching out to the faith community, providing a safe place for everybody to come together and to talk about behavioral health and how to meet the needs of the community. 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:24.160 It's it can be tricky sometimes, especially as you get into some of the more rural areas. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:33.040 But I don't think that we have had a single county that has caused any problems. 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:43.519 Really being able to go in and provide access to education, access to resources is something that everyone needs. 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:51.600 A lot of the problem is getting through to the community that, okay, this community actually has a problem. 00:07:52.720 --> 00:08:02.160 And so, even with a coordinated effort of that, it's bringing in city leaders, county leaders to be able to say this is what we're seeing. 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:11.839 Bringing in the different partners within the community so they can say, and this is what we're already doing, and we can show how we're supporting their work. 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:15.839 If it can't come from the community itself, it's not going to be impactful. 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:17.120 That is certainly true.

00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.000 So a quick observation. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:34.720 When we do needs assessments of the strength of a given recovery ecosystem, we frequently hear just across the state in different places that stigma is an issue, that that the problem's there, but nobody's talking about it. 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:39.519 That, or even if they're aware of it, they they say, Oh, we'd love to do something, and then they don't. 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:41.440 Uh, a lot of inaction. 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:49.120 So it sounds like that is kind of an sounds like that's a pretty huge impact that this program is having. 00:08:49.600 --> 00:09:04.080 It is well, would say community changing, could say life changing, but the reality is it's generational change that is created within each community because of the work that is being done. 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:21.919 So I guess going back in my 15 years of working in the space, not necessarily in this position, but in the space, what you see is typically three to four generations of dysfunction, which includes trauma and addiction that can be passed down from generation to generation. 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:35.759 Typically, after that third to fourth generation, somebody gets tired of it and have that determination look, this has got to stop with me. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:36.639 Yeah. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:53.840 At a conference that I attended not too long ago, it was reported that some new research had come out that showed the effects of that one person wanting to create that change for themselves. 00:09:54.559 --> 00:10:08.480 But to see that that influence that they have takes that three to four generations of dysfunction and creates seven generations of healing. 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:23.360 So it's uh it's pretty profound being able to understand that the work that we do on a regular basis, even with individuals, we will not live to be able to see the full impact. 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:25.679 And I love that. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:41.840 The other thing I would add too is with our programs for every educational event that we do, we do a pre and post-survey to kind of see what knowledge has been gained and what personal beliefs have changed. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:51.440 And in speaking of stigma, on our last report, there was a 98% reduction in personal stigma because of the event or training. 00:10:51.600 --> 00:11:06.879 So that's like one of our key goals with our programs is that through our education and providing, you know, the tools needed to learn about these different, you know, topics, that people will start to see, oh, you know, it's not a choice. 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:11.279 It is possible for people to recover and it will help break down that stigma. 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.559 Um, and so I think that's one, you know, concrete example. 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:27.519 I think another thing that we do well that helps break down that stigma across communities is each one of

our coordinators or individuals of long-term recovery from either substance use or mental health or both. 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:37.759 And so it is a very clear depiction to those people in the community that here's this person presenting this information to me that I may not know nothing about, may know some about. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:44.480 And they're telling me that they were this person out on the street, they were this person in our hospitals. 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:45.840 You can't tell me that. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:47.440 Like that's crazy, right? 00:11:48.159 --> 00:12:11.600 So I've seen it in our hospital settings where, you know, nurses and um physicians who see, you know, individuals coming in due to overdoses or what have you, they it's exhausting to watch, you know, someone go through that, but to see individuals in long-term recovery do the work and see that they could also help others who are in that situation, I think that really is the stigma breaker. 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:17.039 Yeah, is showing showcasing that you know, these people are just like us. 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:22.720 They just unfortunately had a wrong turn at some point and they needed a little extra help to get out of it. 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:23.600 Right. 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.799 That's incredible results. 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.840 Uh that people are reporting a personal reduction. 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.720 Um, it it it's what kind of audiences are receiving this education? 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:41.840 Because the the the need for education is frequently cited as something people uh across the state are hungry for. 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:46.960 The events that we provide are really for the whole community. 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:48.799 So anyone could come. 00:12:49.120 --> 00:13:04.159 This really is to be able to change the understanding and reduce the stigma community-wide so that individuals who need help have a better opportunity to ask for it, to know that they're gonna get it without being judged. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:19.120 But not only that, it allows them an opportunity with the reduction of stigma within each community to come back home and to be such an instigator of change for good for the community. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:28.320 So to go into events and hear someone from the community share their story of where they've been but where they are, it makes it personal for the community. 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.679 Yeah, allows them to see okay, this isn't just those people, this is us two. 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:47.519 Might I ask, and you you can remove place names or any identifying into information if you'd like, but is there a particular illustration uh that comes to mind when you think about some of these impacts? 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:53.440 Anything that really stuck out in your mind is that a trick question. 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:58.799 No, every single day we see something. 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:05.759 So on our

reports, we actually have a section in there for victories. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.480 What have you seen? 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:15.360 Either of yourself, one of your clients, one of your co-workers, that is just you've got to share the information. 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:23.279 And what we see more than not is and here's a personal experience that I sat there and watched happen. 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:35.120 I went to an event in a rural community, was going to present with a few of the coordinators, and one of the coordinators leaned over and was just like, Hey, see that guy in the back? 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.120 It's like, Yeah, that was my dealer back in the day. 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:49.279 Well, as a result of that event, the individual was able to go into treatment and now has two years in recovery. 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.679 And this is just something we see on a regular basis. 00:14:55.840 --> 00:15:00.799 I mean, that's not a special story that happens so much. 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.679 Also taken into consideration, even from our own coordinators. 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:18.559 I think we have four of our coordinators who called one of the lifeline coordinators whenever they were in active use, was able to find recovery, and now they're serving as a coordinator. 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:25.200 And so individuals who have used the system are becoming a part of the system to help others. 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:32.080 That's really talking, that is an impact right there, is that it seems to be almost self-sustaining in terms of its workforce. 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:33.840 It is amazing. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:49.279 And to be able to look at different communities and to physically watch during the presentation, their jaws drop and their perception change. 00:15:51.519 --> 00:16:01.279 Because we do a little bit of questioning in that pre and post to be able to see where their mindset is before and to see where it is afterwards. 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:15.600 And so whenever she's talking about that 90% 98% of respondents report or reduction in stigma, this is a direct result of the education that they're getting from someone who has been there. 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:27.840 That way we're actually able to share not what the community believes, not what people have said, but this is what I have experienced. 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:32.080 And it's a game changer. 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:32.559 Yeah. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:39.360 I think the other thing that's important to mention too is that these events occur continually. 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:43.919 It's not a, oh, we did an event here in this county and we're never going back. 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:44.559 Right. 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.000 We're there constantly. 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:55.200 And I think that's important because sometimes it takes hearing the same message four or five times before the light bulb goes off. 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.120 And we've seen that in these communities. 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:08.319 Like we've had coordinators tell us, you know, I've said the same information over and over again, but today, you know, this person came up to me and told me today it made a difference. 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:24.319 And so I think that's the other important thing is that we can't give up if we are met with resistance, because there's going to be a day when a person's ready to actually have the conversation and we want to be there to be able to support them in that conversation. 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:32.160 You know, I think that sentiment is uh going to land well in the ears of every parent out there because I think they know what that feels like. 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:41.440 Uh, but uh it in a way, I love I love that point because that is a best practice for for actually having an impact. 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:47.039 You can't just do a one-off series of billboards and you know, clap your hands and say job well done. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:51.039 You've got to keep pushing for sure, because that is just the nature of human learning. 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.480 Um other pieces bringing the successes back, right? 00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:04.000 So, you know, showing you know the difference that's being made, the partnerships that have been created, because then it makes people go, oh, this is actually working. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:05.680 How do we get involved? 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:10.960 So I think that's the other piece, you know, latching onto that competitive nature of us as humans. 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:12.799 Definitely, definitely. 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:16.480 Now, in in terms of using these services, what what does it actually look like? 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:18.559 Say, say I'm someone who needs recovery. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.119 What does an interaction with the lifeliners look like? 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.200 Uh it depends on what you need, really. 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.559 So there's a couple of ways to be able to get in contact with this. 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:32.400 One of the main ways to get in contact with Lifeline is the Tennessee Red Line. 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:38.000 So the Tennessee Red Line is a service that has been set up through the state. 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:51.200 So calling into the red line, they'll go through, talk to the individual, see what would be a good fit for them, provide them some resources as well as the number for the lifeliner in their region. 00:18:52.079 --> 00:19:25.119 That way, if they have some trouble with some of the resources that have been provided, Lifeline can go through, walk with them through the process after finding, you know, big thing is being able to work with the individual from where they are, meet them where they are, find out where they want to be, go through our extensive knowledge of the different programs that are out there in order to match them up with a good program that would be suitable for the

individual, whether they have insurance or not. 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:32.640 The vast majority of the individuals we serve do not have insurance or the ability to pay. 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:33.440 Okay. 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.920 Well, are you ready? 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:53.200 So, right, you know, depending on the needs as well as depending on availability of space within the facilities is going to determine how long it takes, but we still have some other resources to help the individual, even during that time. 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:58.559 So, what they do is they make a call either to the red line or to the coordinator. 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:06.640 The coordinator is going to ask them what's going on, do a baseline assessment, see what is needed in order to get the individual help. 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:16.079 Sometimes it may be long-term services, but they could also need that inpatient there at the beginning. 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:16.559 Yeah. 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.400 It may be that they need detox before they go into inpatient. 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:24.240 And these are all things that we can help set up for the individual. 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:34.000 So we can work with them to get into a detox, be transferred out of there to go to a 28-day inpatient treatment, unless that is attached to the detox. 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:56.640 And then after that 28-day period or 90-day period, however long it is, we can work with the individual to get them into long-term recovery housing, which can provide access to a lot of different services to increase the recovery capital so the individual has a much better opportunity for the long-term recovery. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.799 Quickly, what is recovery capital? 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:10.720 Recovery capital really boils down to connections that you have within the community, access to resources that can help you further in life. 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:19.279 So, Harvard actually did a study a few years ago over a 40-year period of what uh the recovery process looks like. 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:28.160 And you look at that 40-year uh graph that they have, and it's just like, okay, you get into recovery and you just start doing good. 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.200 Right. 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:31.359 Yeah, okay. 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.119 And they knew that. 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.759 And so they went back and they they said, Okay, well, let's see what the first two years looks like. 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:38.559 Right. 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.599 And what they showed on that is what we know is that the good thing about recovery is you can get your feelings back. 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.839 And the bad thing about recovery is you get your feelings back. 00:21:51.599 --> 00:22:09.119 So it can be difficult sometimes, but whenever we're getting our feelings back, having to deal with the things that we've been going through that we've been Running from numbing ourselves from because a lot of people don't understand, even for those who say that addiction is a choice. 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:10.799 Okay, what's the choice? 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:16.400 Yeah, my choice wasn't to use whenever I started using at 11 years old. 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.400 My choice was to stop hurting. 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:19.039 Yeah. 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:26.000 And I chose what was presented to me, and it worked until it didn't. 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:40.640 Until I went from alcohol and Virginia Slim Cigarettes through the gamut up to being addicted to crack cocaine and everything in between. 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:49.200 What started off as me trying to kill the pain from childhood trauma ended up in active addiction. 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.839 It's easy for a community to say that, well, marijuana is the gateway drug. 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.359 Weed ain't the gateway drug, trauma is the gateway. 00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.000 Yeah. 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.279 And that's what we're trying to get away from is the pain. 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:04.240 And that's not something that is unique to us. 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:09.200 That is something that we are taught innately, everyone. 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:11.279 We don't want to hurt. 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:20.160 Some of us have better coping mechanisms as well as access to healthier ways of dealing with stuff than others. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:26.559 I grew up in a pretty decent home, but I still had no community. 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:53.200 The recovery capital shows that within that community, even though during that first piece of recovery, the psychological distress increases, even though our emotional state decreases, even though there are so many negative connotations in that first piece of recovery, because now we got our feelings back and we got to feel it. 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.599 We got to work through some stuff, which means we have to learn that process. 00:23:58.720 --> 00:23:59.759 Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.960 On our last episode, we had on Uplift Appalachia. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.000 Are you all familiar with that? 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.960 Okay, great. 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:27.759 Uh so one of the things that Tanner Clements said, the director, that really stuck with me is uh the purpose of what they're trying to do with training and empowering churches to step up and and and provide community to people in recovery, starting with giving someone a ride, helping them find some food, you know, the basic, basic needs of a person, right? 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:33.359 In the act of doing that, you end up creating a community that, in his words, wraps around the individual. 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:42.960 So you're not just connecting to wrap around services, you're wrapping around the individual uh themselves, which is a beautiful commentary on what the purpose of community is. 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:45.440 So you have that network

and that connection. 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440 Is the Lifeline Project doing something similar? 00:24:49.839 --> 00:25:18.799 So that's where the faith-based coordinators come in working with the congregations to be able to set up, provide education, access to resources for them so that the congregations can become recovery-friendly and in turn uh educate the community at the same time because all the community is invited, but now we have the faith community who is there to be able to be that wrap around service to wrap around the individual. 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:24.160 So it's not just all right, we'll help you, and that's where it stops. 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:26.880 It's okay, we'll help you. 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.279 We'd love to see you come back. 00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:47.920 And what happens there is the faith community allows an opportunity for individuals to get the help that they need and then to come back and really to be a champion for that congregation and community to help other individuals who are where that person needs to be. 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:57.440 So it's not just wrapping around, it's allowing opportunity for the individual to find their purpose and place in community. 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:07.920 I think the other thing, too, that the lifeline coordinators do is you have your faith-based coordinators that are, you know, educating our congregations and our organizations of faith. 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.680 Our lifeline coordinators aren't just connecting the individuals to treatment, they're educating the larger community. 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.000 Right. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:24.480 So they're working with the chambers of commerce, they're working with other entities in the community, just the typical, you know, individual that's walking down the street and has an interest in this. 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.279 They're educating the community at large. 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:34.559 And I think that's an important factor of it all because our communities feed into our places of faith. 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:40.640 And our places of faith send our individuals out into the community to do the things that they need to do. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:47.039 And so those two bodies come together to really create that recovery capital that Jamie was talking about. 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:59.359 And then in addition to that, the hybrid lifeliners that are working in the distressed counties who have access to different uh services that are available through DHS. 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:13.359 And so there's opportunity for access to SNAP, TANF, other different types of resources that are available through DHS, including what we already have as well. 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:18.640 So being able to work with the faith community is a piece of it. 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:43.119 We're working with the general community, specific with the distressed communities and counties across the state, as well as within our collegiate

recovery initiative, working on college campuses, university campuses, so that students, admin, faculty, and teachers all have access to the different resources, as well as opportunity to set up support groups. 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:51.680 Since the inception of the program, I believe we have set up over 925 support groups throughout the state of Tennessee. 00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:54.319 It's pretty legit. 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.400 And this isn't us going in and saying this is what we want you to do. 00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:03.920 It's working with the community to find out what they need and helping them get that right. 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:12.720 And it kind of goes back to your original question, Jeremy, of why is it necessary for all these different players to kind of why it's important for us to collaborate? 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.119 And it's because we can't do this by ourselves, right? 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:34.720 We need all these facets to work together to really create an avenue for individuals to be able to access the services more easily, to be able to stay in the services, to be able to jump back into services if they decide right now it's not for me, and to have that support network that comes around them so that they can succeed. 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:56.000 So I think that kind of goes back to your original question and how this all started is we have to leverage the resources we have so that we A, don't duplicate something that's already so hard to obtain, but B, so that we can make sure that we're doing our best to create a system that can be navigated and a person can thrive in. 00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:58.400 Yeah, that's an excellent point. 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:02.960 And uh an even better way of describing a recovery ecosystem than I did earlier. 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:09.440 Uh, so truly impactful and helpful, thinking long-term, planting trees, building cathedrals. 00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:20.000 These are metaphors that popped into my head uh throughout this conversation, such as when Jamie, you said we won't see the full impact of this, we won't live long enough. 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:29.200 Uh it's it's a good way to think about how we get out of this because this didn't just start in the 2010s, this goes back a long time. 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:35.759 What are some of the most common problems that communities face? 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:42.799 What are, you know, when lifeline project coordinators and the other programs uh in the department are are working on improvement. 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:44.640 What are some of the most common problems? 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:51.680 I mean, obviously something like there's not enough recovery housing or or or not enough open beds or something like that. 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.640 There's never enough resources. 00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:00.880 And then we have an opportunity to talk with them about all the resources that actually are available. 00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:07.759 There are so many resources that very few people know about. 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:17.039 So the most common challenge we have is finding the opportunity to go in and to let them know what they actually do have access to. 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:17.839 Right. 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:29.759 And you know, going back to what was said a few minutes ago about being able to maybe use a church van, that that Uber that only gets to be used one day a week. 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:43.039 Well, why don't we see if we can put that in service a few more days a week and allow that to be some transportation to meetings, to treatment, to work, to whatever may be needed for that individual. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:50.000 There's so many resources out there that each congregation and each faith community has access to. 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.599 Just as well as a clothing closet. 00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:04.640 Well, that's recovery capital too. 00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:11.920 Recovery is much wider, much broader than substance use and mental health. 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.319 We all need recovery in one way or another. 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:21.920 We all struggle with something in one way or another, and it's not new to us, it's always been that way. 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:29.839 I think one of the biggest things that communities face is the challenge of being able to say that we had that problem here. 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.160 Interesting. 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.359 I haven't met a single congregation that doesn't want to help. 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:42.960 But I've met so many who don't know how to, and because they don't know how to, they do nothing. 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:55.920 So what we can do is empower them with the education to see how to work with individuals, how to ask the right questions, instead of saying, Hey, how you doing? 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:57.920 Oh, I'm doing good, how you doing? 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:00.319 Just letting that be it. 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.200 Following that up with the how are you really? 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.680 Yeah, what's going on? 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:15.039 And sitting down and having a conversation, that is what allows change because that invites connection and relationship. 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.599 We have to have that, but not everybody knows how to get that. 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:31.039 That's to me, that is one of our main goals, is to allow people the ability to have those hard discussions and know that they don't have to be the expert. 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:37.599 All they need to know is to how to listen and where the resources are. 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.000 And that's what we teach. 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:48.000 So in making decisions going forward, we're doing a lot of great work across the state. 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:52.240 We're seeing a lot of a lot of really exciting things in Tennessee. 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.839 The people I've had on the show over the

past year, for example, covers the private, the public sector. 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:07.359 Um our overdose rate is coming down in Tennessee faster than it is in the national average, uh, which is tremendous. 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.359 Uh that that says that we're doing a lot of good good work here. 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.759 Um, what should we be thinking about? 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.039 What do people not understand about recovery? 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:24.880 Uh, that they may they may think they get or or that they've just never considered before. 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:29.200 When thinking about recovery, what what is it that that helps it thrive? 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:36.000 One thing is that it doesn't look the same for every person and that it's not linear. 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:44.000 And so I think, you know, it's very easy for us as people to really be black and white. 00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:48.079 And with this, it is a day-to-day adventure. 00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:51.519 And so I think we have to be ready for that. 00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:11.280 And for, you know, the family that's, you know, working with a family member that's going through this or the treatment agency or whatever, we all, you know, we have to be fully prepared that things may look really good for three days, but there may be a day where things go a little bit backwards and that's okay. 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:24.000 And we have to be okay with that and still provide the support because we all make mistakes in our lives and we shouldn't be tossed as the side because of that mistake if we're trying. 00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:29.039 And so I think that's the biggest thing is it doesn't look the same for everybody and it's not linear. 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:37.440 And following that up, in one of our trainings that we do, it's the trauma-informed care training that we provide. 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:47.199 There's a quote on one of the slides, and what it says is we don't see things how they are. 00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:49.519 We see things how we are. 00:34:52.639 --> 00:35:00.400 To be able to get into a space where I'm not I don't have sympathy for you, I have empathy for you. 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.400 Sympathy essentially is I feel for you. 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.000 I don't need you, Kitty, I got enough of that for myself. 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:16.079 Instead of feeling for me, feel with me. 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:19.760 Walk with me. 00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:25.599 The community can provide that, the faith community can provide that. 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:30.239 If you don't know how, we can help you. 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:32.960 Beautifully said. 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:39.280 And I think the other thing I will add, because Jeremy you mentioned how our numbers have continued to decline. 00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:52.239 I know our department really focuses on outcomes and what we're doing and ensuring that the programs that we're implementing are working and if they're not pivoting so that they do work. 00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:05.280 I would say one of the other things that I feel very privileged to be able to work for this department is that we see each individual person we serve as that a person and not a member. 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:15.679 So though we are looking at numbers, we know that our day-to-day is focused on serving the individual for who they are as a human and not a member. 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:25.280 Well, I uh feel very comforted by the uh mission and attitude that I have her today. 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:29.039 Um and I'm I'm not gonna lie, I'm very proud of my state right now. 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:36.639 I will say really the work that we do and the the vision that we have is because of our leadership. 00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:45.280 So, Commissioner Margaret Williams, like she drives the way that our department works, and it's because she cares so deeply because of the work she's done. 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:53.760 And I'd be reminiscent to say that we've had an amazing governor and legislature that has supported the work that we've done, and our budget shows that. 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:57.679 And if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have the budget to do the work that we do. 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.079 All right, just some excellent thoughts here. 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:08.000 Um, Jessica Youngbloom, Jamie Harper, I thank you so much for joining me on the Smart Policy Podcast. 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:09.199 I really appreciate it. 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:10.239 Thank you, Jamie. 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:18.800 For more episodes on in-depth discussions on Tennessee policies related to substance use disorder by a range of local experts. 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:25.440 Please subscribe to us wherever you get podcasts and visit our website at smart.tennessee.edu. 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:27.360 I'm Jeremy Corvillis. 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:29.760 Thank you for listening and see you next month.