Ep. 24 - Talkin' Discipline의 전체 녹취록

--> 00:02:21.360 Smyrna, Georgia? 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:22.560 Avena Sain? 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:22.960 No. 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:23.280 See? 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:24.800 Yeah, Avena Saint is. 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:26.400 Oh man. 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:28.400 Guten Abin. 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:29.520 Frankfurt. 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:30.560 I apologize. 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:33.919 Smyrna, Georgia. 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:34.560 Smyrna. 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.360 For Lauderdale and Miami, Florida. 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:37.919 Man. 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:39.120 We got a round. 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.280 A real smattering. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:43.280 Morgan scorg. 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:45.759 So we'll see. 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.000 Jingle bell, jingle, yay, jingle good for you. 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:54.159 Been on the fence about switching because she's all around this one. 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:57.360 Let's get things going. 00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:58.000 All right. 00:02:58.319 --> 00:02:58.639 Okay. 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:08.719 So today's icebreaker question is inspired by Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of stew. 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:12.719 And I feel like there would be a couple of soups that would be worth that. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:15.039 And so it. 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:22.719 So I'm just curious what is your favorite soup or stew? 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:25.599 I really love soup. 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:33.039 Like one of my favorite things as we enter into September, because I'm early with making soups, is soup season. 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:33.759 I love it. 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:36.879 I am talking that I don't know what I would say. 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:42.400 Okay, so Taylor's mom has this amazing chili recipe. 00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:46.560 This recipe has probably like over 20 ingredients. 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:47.680 It's really good. 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:50.080 It's the best chili I've ever had. 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.439 I know at church we have a chili competition and we haven't entered yet. 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.520 I'm just saying that if we did, oh is it chili Colorado? 00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:59.599 No, it's not Chili Colorado. 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:01.280 I don't know where she got the recipe. 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:09.520 I think that she probably started off with one from like a trusted source and then has just added to it throughout the years, but it is so good. 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:16.639 So I don't, I mean, I think it's my favorite one to make because it just like there's so many ingredients that go into it. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:17.839 We package it. 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:28.720 So we'll get like two very large stockpots, and then we'll make like 40 servings, and then we'll put it into Ziploc bags and freeze it based off of her recommendation. 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:31.680 They do that as well, and it is really good. 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:34.319 So you can make chili popsicles. 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:35.040 That's right. 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:37.680 I'd go chili Colorado. 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:38.560 That one's mine. 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:41.759 You need to make that for the chili cook-off this year. 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:42.879 Yeah. 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.040 But there's well sur surprise, surprise, there's a lot of chilies. 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:53.839 Like most of the the recipe is just all these different kinds of chilies and just trying to trying to find them all has been the hardest part. 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:54.319 Yeah. 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:59.360 The our church chili cook-off, like I look forward to that every year. 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:07.120 I'm just like, yes, I'm I'm just someone's gotta knock Bobby Sul Bobby Sullivan off that off the pedestal. 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:07.600 Podium. 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:08.399 Podium, yeah. 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:09.120 Pedestal. 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:12.560 He has won like what four years now? 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:14.319 I don't know. 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.800 But I it came close last year, I think. 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.399 But I I did not taste a chili that I did not like. 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.639 So Taylor Witt, what's your favorite soup? 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:33.839 I have not written an entire thesis, but I have very strong opinions about soups. 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:38.639 So I'm glad that this question is is being discussed. 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:39.199 Yes. 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.199 I I think of it in two broad categories. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:06:01.279 I think of soups I again, not a full thesis, but I think of soups as either being hearty and filled with many ingredients or a pure distillation of a flavor or a concept. 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:03.120 So it's broth of soup. 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.120 So yeah, right. 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:09.360 I would say like in the in its purest form, soup is literally just bone broth. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.360 You add a bunch of stuff to it, that's when it becomes complex, right? 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:20.720 So my favorite type of soup that has a lot of stuff in it easily is ramen. 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:21.680 Yeah. 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:23.199 I didn't know we could go ramen. 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.079 Now that's a noodle soup, technically speaking. 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:27.279 I'm all over that. 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:30.079 But I love ramen. 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:43.120 And if we're talking about a soup that's just like the pure distillation of like a flavor, you know, like a tomato bisque or a corn chowder or whatever, I'm going French onion every time. 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:56.959 If you get me a good French onion soup with some of that cheese kind of like caramelized on top and and a like a good piece of baguette to to throw in that soup. 00:06:57.199 --> 00:06:59.680 Baguette, I am all over it. 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:07.279 So for me, I'm doing French onion

if we're doing a simple soup, and I'm doing ramen if we want to get fancy with it. 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.600 So that's I would I don't know. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:17.120 I don't know that I'd fully sell my birthright, but I've had I've I have had some tasty ramen, I will say. 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.319 Yeah, now that ramen's on the table, I'm I'll go ramen too. 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.639 I don't know if I'd sell my birthright for for chili, but I'm not ramen. 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:25.680 I know. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:33.279 I feel like chili is humble, so I don't know that I would sell my birthright either for chili, but it's it's a humble soup, but I love it. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.000 So good. 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:37.519 What about what about you, Lacey? 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:40.319 What's your what's your your birthright stew? 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:41.360 Sweet tape. 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:42.240 Yes. 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:44.800 Uh no, I I just love soup. 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.920 I'm with you, Sabrina. 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:48.160 I love soup season so much. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:52.480 I love uh Lulu taught me how to make turnip green soup. 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:53.360 That's right. 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:55.839 I love turnip green soup. 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.560 I love tomato soup and grilled cheese. 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:05.759 Yes, that is just that that yes, I would sell my birthright for tomato soup and grilled cheese. 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.000 That means at least 30% tomato soup. 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:09.920 60% Pop Tarts. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:10.319 Yeah. 00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:12.560 That's how you make a Gabriella. 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:17.120 Yes, lots of Pop Tarts, lots of soup, and spaghettios, weirdly. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:22.560 Uh but but yeah, I just and I love chili. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:23.759 I just I love soup. 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:27.279 Soup makes like just give me a soup, give me a sandwich. 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:28.800 I am happy, happy, happy. 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.720 Carabbas makes a really good lintel and sausage soup. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:33.840 I don't know if you've had it. 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:36.240 I like we'll just get that from there. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:36.960 It's so good. 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:38.799 It's pretty spicy too, which I like. 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.759 Oh yes, I know I said my favorite one, but I can talk about soup all day. 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:47.759 Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say at the risk of this just being a long y'all keep it. 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.360 It's a culinary podcast. 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.799 As long as you throw chili and ramen in there, I'm all open. 00:08:58.159 --> 00:08:58.879 There it is. 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:02.879 Take it away, Taylor. 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:20.720 All right, well, segueing from our discussion of soups into the Bible, we've got an interesting portion of scripture on the docket tonight to discuss. 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:29.039 I'm excited to to do a bit of a a deeper dive into this passage in Hebrews. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:34.240 So tonight we're gonna be talking about chapter 12 of Hebrews. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:49.440 And I thought that this would just be a good opportunity on the show to do, you know, we've done some kind of broad topics, some surveys. 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:58.639 Some we've done some exposition and talking about obviously scripture, of course, but this a couple of us came on here just to talk about their vacation. 00:09:59.120 --> 00:09:59.759 That's right. 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:06.399 But didn't you say that was like the most of our biggest episodes? 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:10.000 That's when you guys come in here and gave a presentation on your vacation. 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:10.559 That's right. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:11.919 Vacation pictures. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:13.440 Anyway, go ahead. 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:20.080 Oh no, yeah, but uh But tonight, yeah, I'm looking forward to to doing a bit of a of a deep dive. 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:46.960 So yeah, you know, the the thought process behind behind choosing this this portion of the Bible was really just that a portion of it has been particularly meaningful to me recently, and that I think it does dovetail in a nice way with our previous discussion on the show about holiness. 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:51.039 I'm excited for it. 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.480 Hebrews intimidates me a little bit. 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:55.200 A little bit. 00:10:55.360 --> 00:11:10.960 It's well, I mean, in Hebrews in chapter five, it says that I mean, I'm not gonna be able to code it exactly, but something about like do stop drinking milk and instead Oh yeah, yeah, consume like suspense. 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:11.840 Yeah. 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:18.639 I I think it's Hebrews maybe romance where he's like, we're not gonna rehash the the the easy stuff. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:19.919 Yeah, we're gonna build on that. 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:20.879 I think it's the same one. 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:29.120 Yeah, it's it's Hebrews 5 13 for everyone who partakes only of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:40.559 And I I feel like that's such a important verse in Hebrews because Paul is talking to Christians, like disciples, followers of Jesus. 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:47.519 He's not talking to the masses to try and you know encourage them to start following Jesus. 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:55.679 He's talking to the people who are who've already committed and saying, like, oh well, I I guess we'll talk a little bit about what he's saying in chapter 12. 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:00.480 But it's to me, it's dense, and I love it, and it's good and it's very convicting. 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:01.200 So I'm excited for this. 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:02.559 Well, along the same lines. 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.559 Chapter 6,

verse 1, that was the one I was thinking of. 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:13.840 Therefore, having the elementary teaching about the uh about the Christ, let us press on to maturity. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:14.000 Yeah. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:15.279 Maturity. 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.240 Which we're the ones to be talking about this. 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:46.639 Which is a an example kind of of what's happening too between chapters 10 and 10, 11, and then going into 12, which is you know, it you really can see this and throughout the book of Hebrews, you see this pattern of chapters sort of seemingly ending in a arbitrary way, because really a lot of it does flow. 00:12:46.720 --> 00:13:07.759 And so, like, you know, you were just describing verse 13 and chapter 5, Sabrina, and then a few verses later, right after that chapter ends, the the verse that Ben mentioned is just a perfect segue from chapter 5 into chapter 6, thematically connecting those concepts. 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:29.600 So, you know, it obviously a lot, you know, we're we're talking about the book of Hebrews, which reads more like a a sermon or or something that might you might hear you know as a piece of preaching than it does a letter to a church such as First Corinthians or Galatians, whatever it may be. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.320 Well, you mentioned chapter 1 11 is my favorite. 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:36.799 11 is so informative and there's so much to be taken from that. 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:50.879 I know we've sp spoken on it quite a bit, but if you ever like, hey, I need to read scripture more, and it's daunting, like don't know where to start, whatever, Hebrews 11 is a pretty good good place to start, and it'll fire you up. 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:54.480 That is before chapter 12 tears you back down. 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.799 That's kind of what we're doing, like fire tear you down, six build you up. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:14.080 Well, I would say, so this might be we're about to get into this, but I I would almost I think it's I think it's possible to read twelve in a way where you get that sense of being fired up too. 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:14.559 Yeah. 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:15.679 No, I for sure. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:25.200 It in the in the sense that as we'll we'll read in a second, in the sense that it is convicting. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:39.279 And in in the way that it's convicting, I think it's possible to turn that conviction into motivation and and motivation, you know, that sense of being fired up to wanna to just dig deep. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:53.200 So with that in mind, I thought we could start our discussion and begin kind of kicking off this discussion of Hebrews twelve by in turn reading through the chapter. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.360 So we'll take turns. 00:14:55.519 --> 00:15:24.879 You can think of this chapter broadly as having four thematically kind of four sections, and the the two central passages of this chapter are longer, but um it has a bit of an introduction, which kind of follows from Hebrews 11 out of that chapter, and then it finishes with this strong kind of exhortation and the strong word at the end. 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:30.159 So then, if you want to lead us off reading the first part, and then we'll kind of follow in turn. 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:36.480 Yeah, so Hebrews 12, this first section in my Bible is called the John Maxwell Sr. 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:37.600 section. 00:15:37.840 --> 00:16:11.840 So therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us let's rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which is which so easily entangles us, and let's run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith who for the joy set before him endured the cross, despising the shame and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:23.840 For consider for consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will will not grow weary and lose heart. 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:34.159 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin. 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:40.480 And you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons. 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.120 My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are punished by him. 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:54.480 For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines, and he punishes every son whom he accepts. 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.000 It is for discipline that you endure. 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:04.799 God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:16.319 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:22.480 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.640 Shall we not much more be subject to the father of spirits and live? 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:37.440 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, so that we may share his holiness. 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.880 For the moment all discipline seems not to be pleasant but painful. 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.640 Yet to those who have been trained by it, afterward it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. 00:17:49.759 --> 00:18:03.440 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is impaired may not be dislocated, but rather be healed. 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:10.880 Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:30.880 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many become

defiled, that there be no sexually immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:42.640 For you know that even afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears. 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:07.680 For they could not cope with the command, even an animal touches the mountain, it shall be stone. 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:37.599 And so terrible was the sight that Moses said, I am terrified and trembling, but you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirit of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood which speaks better than the blood of Abel. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.279 See to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:54.160 For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from him who warned us from heaven. 00:19:54.400 --> 00:20:05.119 And his voice shook the earth then, and now he has promised, saying, Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also the heavens. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:18.880 This expression, yet once more, denotes the removing of those which can be shaken as of great created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken remain. 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:35.200 Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let's show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence, and for our God is a consuming fire. 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.240 I love it. 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.039 Anything to add? 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:40.000 Everybody good? 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:41.359 We're done. 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.079 Yeah. 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:42.799 Wow. 00:20:43.680 --> 00:21:06.079 It is really just such a amazing transition that we see here from chapter eleven where you have this sort of Hall of Fame that we've talked about into this chapter where we see God's holiness being just so clearly talked about and yeah. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.319 Chapter 11, especially how it ends, is key to this first verse. 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:10.799 Yes. 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:12.079 Cloud of witnesses. 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.279 What is he talking about? 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.440 And I mean he just goes through, like you said, the Hall of Fame of faith. 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:40.880 You know, naming all the the individuals from the the old law or the old testament, the old covenant, Moses, Abraham, talking about all the things that they did, and and he wraps it up, and all of these people, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised. 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:50.160 Because God

provided something better for us so that apart from us they would not they would not be made made perfect. 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:58.960 And so that's key there to at least understand that I know that you just come in verse twelve, verse one, what does cloud of witnesses mean? 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.440 kind of fills that in. 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:06.000 Kind of goes off what you were talking about, how they flow together. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:07.680 Yeah. 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:23.359 And I would say that the portion that you read, Ben, that uh so Hebrews 12, 3, I feel like the part where it says like consider him who has endured such hostility by sinners against himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart. 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:37.039 Like exactly what you're talking about, there are examples of martyrs of people who, like you said, did not see the win, I guess the quote unquote win in their lifetimes. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.240 And so like right away it talks about I guess a warning like you will endure suffering. 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.000 You're not alone in this. 00:22:46.319 --> 00:23:01.599 And I don't know something about since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, I've heard this say said like it's not they're not just reminders like they are there with us. 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:24.240 And that gives us power in the same way we think about you know our grandparents like if I had a really strong grandmother and I actually have shared this with Taylor when I was first moving to Colorado it was my first time driving that far packing up everything that I had there was fear, uncertainty. 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:40.319 Taylor, I mean this is a time for like this is a conversation for another day, but Taylor and I had dated for four months and then we did long distance for a year and then I was deciding to move across the country for this relationship that I felt very strongly about. 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.880 But there's still a lot of uncertainty and fear there. 00:23:43.119 --> 00:23:54.319 And I guess the backstory is my grandmother was in an abusive relationship and with my grandfather and she moved one night in the middle of the night from Alabama to California. 00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.920 And so she did that on her own with five children. 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:15.359 And so I was talking to my mom one day and I was telling her like you know I'm a little scared and she was reminding me of my grandmother and I remember getting off the phone thinking okay if she could do that by herself under worse circumstances I can do this for like a guy who's amazing. 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.680 Or not just I mean it's for myself too no I'm just saying he is amazing. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:51.599 It wasn't just for himself but it was for me too I wanted to experience a different state but all that to say like that kind of image you know like that image we have of our grandparents who set the stage

for us or other ancestors who kind of set the way for us we can see these biblical heroes these great cloud of witnesses they're there with us when we're making these decisions to endure and to be steadfast in our walk with God. 00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:12.079 Well I mean just I've I've mentioned this before and there's a reason why I read the first section is because you know exactly what you're talking about just more on the nose verses one through two are what my grandfather recorded as his favorite verse. 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:12.400 Yeah. 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.599 And that's why I've got it labeled in here John Maxwell Sr. 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:26.720 section this is his favorite favorite verse and and he was one of the main examples in my life of patriarch in our family and and so it goes exactly what Sabrina's talking about. 00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:36.160 And it's so fitting that it's that verse and that not only does he stick with me but his verse just res the verse that he chose just resonates from there. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.960 And I do want to add to that verse two is is so fascinating to me. 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:41.279 Yeah. 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:50.640 Is that looking to looking only at Jesus he endured the cross for joy. 00:25:51.119 --> 00:26:00.720 Which I know we're gonna get into a little more like struggle endurance and and and discipline but that joy he endured the cross for joy. 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:08.960 Not just to like as an obligation or to I this is expected this is God's plan I just gotta follow it through. 00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:34.319 But he did it out of we we say love a lot and and I think everybody understands that that he that is the ultimate show of love but to put it in terms like joy like delight he do you know he did that for us because it brings him joy for us to partake in that and to to have that relationship with him. 00:26:34.640 --> 00:27:30.349 There's so much there but I think that's a very important thing to remember as we well and the thing that immediately stands out to me in verses one and two it says let's run with endurance the race that is set before us looking only at Jesus doesn't say look to yourself find the strength within you like it doesn't say it's all on you. 00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:38.909 Yes like you know depend on other people or or not that it says looking only to Jesus. 00:27:39.309 --> 00:27:42.589 We're not looking in the mirror here we're looking at Jesus. 00:27:42.909 --> 00:27:45.069 Which is great because if it's up to me we're in trouble. 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:45.710 Right. 00:27:45.950 --> 00:27:49.950 So that's why he did it that's why he did it he did it for us. 00:27:50.189 --> 00:27:50.509 Right. 00:27:50.669 --> 00:27:58.589 And I think that's maybe it's not too much of a stretch or step out to say that perhaps that brings him joy when we do that. 00:27:58.750 --> 00:28:05.149 We look to him only serving him relationship with him above anything else. 00:28:05.869 --> 00:28:14.349 And I and I I don't think it just brings him joy is it I think that's a it's a also a maybe a key to us finding joy. 00:28:14.589 --> 00:28:15.549 Yes as well. 00:28:15.869 --> 00:28:46.750 Well I think we find joy you know I I see how you know Christ's life is the in some way the eternal model as we know for the way to live a life in perfect unity with the will of the Father and to live a life that is in perfect consideration of godliness, holiness. 00:28:47.069 --> 00:29:18.189 I mean he I think is showing us with what you're saying what both of you are saying he's showing us that the joy that is found in the cross is is in my mind the joy that he takes in saving and loving his creation and simultaneously being totally aligned with the will of his father in heaven which which also I think gives us joy when we align ourselves with God's will. 00:29:18.669 --> 00:29:32.349 Which seems at times in spite of ourselves it seems to be you know the last thing that we our flesh wants us to do is to is to get right and and align ourselves with God's will. 00:29:32.509 --> 00:29:38.829 Often often unfortunately our wills and and what what God wants for us are are not the same. 00:29:38.990 --> 00:29:58.189 But but yeah I love this opening passage here and I I think one question that I one one lingering question that I had which I wanted to pose to y'all was had to do with the distinction between obstacles and sin. 00:29:59.549 --> 00:30:11.389 I thought that was interesting that there are these two words that appear just from the bad in the first verse ridding ourselves of obstacles and the sin which so easily entangles us. 00:30:11.629 --> 00:30:36.109 So that to me is is an interesting thought is like how do you determine what is sinful and and also on the other hand what is just an obstacle right because certainly we have those things in our lives that are you know maybe not sin explicitly but they're getting in the way of our full surrender and depth with God. 00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:49.309 Yeah and and I I put it another way because I've had this thought too it's it's on my to-do list to to uh dive into here soon is examining does wrong equal sin? 00:30:50.109 --> 00:31:02.829 And I put it in those terms especially like if when we talk today it's like oh that's wrong and you know what we perceive as wrong yeah does that automatically equal a sin? 00:31:03.470 --> 00:31:12.509 And so I think that may be again I haven't this is just kind of a a a working idea that something I want to dive into. 00:31:12.909 --> 00:31:31.710 But you know I think that starts to kind of begin a hierarchy kind of thought process of you know how we like to well you know whether we know it's right or wrong you know all sin is equal, we still in our minds will we'll put a hierarchy to it. 00:31:31.869 --> 00:31:39.869 Well you know me saying this to somebody is not as bad as killing them or you know stealing or something like that. 00:31:40.029

--> 00:31:45.549 But it's all you know when you go down that that rabbit hole it's it's all serious. 00:31:45.789 --> 00:31:52.589 And but I I do I like this thought too as far as if it's an obstacle is it a sin. 00:31:53.069 --> 00:31:59.789 I think the best way when I was trying to think of this question look at Jesus how Jesus was tempted. 00:32:00.349 --> 00:32:07.950 That was an obstacle I think I would call it when you know when he's taken up on the temple and and Satan tempts him. 00:32:08.349 --> 00:32:12.829 That's an obstacle he overcame the obstacle he didn't sin. 00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:19.309 So I would start there as far as how to kind of differentiate those two. 00:32:19.710 --> 00:32:58.829 Could I be really provocative I'm gonna I'm gonna be provocative this is a this is a conversation I I'll I've had with a friend who I won't name but but I think it's interesting that goes off of what you're saying Ben which is this idea of whether or not in the scope of obstacles versus sin whether we can think of other people in our relationships with them being an obstacle to our faith and that's a tough one for me. 00:32:58.990 --> 00:33:24.029 That's one that I think a lot of believers wrestle with and that I also struggle with to know like when do you understand that an individual at least where they're at in their life at the moment that you're in with them may be challenging you or pushing you or moving you away from holiness or away from God. 00:33:24.269 --> 00:33:37.149 That's a tough one is that I I don't think it is I think and I mean I'm no yeah I'm not trying to like you may have a very clear view of it all comes down to the greatest command in the second like it. 00:33:37.309 --> 00:33:53.549 Yeah love God with all your heart your soul your mind your strength and then love your neighbor you start with that first one relationship with God you have to have that you have to establish that relationship with God because that influences and affects the other they're closely entwined. 00:33:53.629 --> 00:33:57.629 You can't love your neighbor and hate God because you're a liar and vice versa. 00:33:57.789 --> 00:34:21.550 Right but you have that relationship with God you grow in that relationship and then you're I think I believe you're able to either pick up on those negative relationships yeah not only maybe pick up on them maybe quicker or even at all but also affect them positively. 00:34:22.030 --> 00:35:03.950 But also be able to discern are you going to be able to affect it positively because here's the thing too to keep in mind if it is a very negative relationship or it's a it's affecting you very negatively yeah you do need to it's a fine line to walk right I don't know this is where I've kind of hit a dead end as far as there's no really clear answer because you want to protect that neighbor that relationship with that neighbor you still want to love that neighbor that's the key part yes and if you cannot be a positive influence when you're with them then maybe separating physically not you know not disengaging from that love. 00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:09.150 You're still praying for them you're still you know all the other things you can do when you're apart from them. 00:35:09.230 --> 00:35:16.269 Yeah but you're maybe even that in that separation you're being the influence that you need to be you're setting the an example. 00:35:16.830 --> 00:35:24.110 Yeah I think it all goes back to what is hindering your relationship with God. 00:35:24.269 --> 00:35:32.590 And so obstacles can certainly do that and sin most definitely will hinder like will hurt your relationship with God. 00:35:32.750 --> 00:35:59.710 And I completely agree with you Ben I think that it's a very fine line to walk and I think that's why in sc in the Bible scripture supports both loving your neighbor being Christ like being sacrificial but then it also says like I was just remembering 2 John 1 9 and 10 as we were talking about this it says anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. 00:35:59.870 --> 00:36:14.750 The one who remains in the teaching has both the Father and the son if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house and do not give him a greeting for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. 00:36:14.910 --> 00:36:34.030 And I think that's something to read scripture and also pray about because there you know when I was not following God my one of my best friends was so gentle and loving and not pressuring me and welcoming into her home and did not reject me. 00:36:34.190 --> 00:36:50.190 And I think that is important for us to try and be loving and supportive of both believers and non-believers but then there are also going to be those types of people who are actively trying to to push you and hinder your relationship with God. 00:36:50.510 --> 00:37:02.910 I think that's where this scripture in first or second john one that's where it's saying guard your relate protect your relationship with God and so 2 John 1 10 that's the one you just read. 00:37:03.070 --> 00:37:06.910 Yes and so I think I thought that was Paul because Paul says something similar. 00:37:07.230 --> 00:37:32.990 I think so too actually I think they're in Romans somewhere and and he does he comes about it from two different approaches it's what you're talking about the whole accountability thing that's where I really struggle it's like when to step up and speak out or you know because you still have to grapple with the whole sawdust or the plank in your own eye versus the sawdust in their eye. 00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:45.309 But then Paul man I hope I'm right on this I think it's Romans 10 it's I think it's it's around Romans 10 maybe a five through ten. 00:37:45.870 --> 00:37:52.190 One of those chapters where he talks about you know petty quarrels. 00:37:52.590 --> 00:38:17.390 Thinking of yourself highly

or you know thinking of yourself as you know very wise and whatever and and but you're pointing to your neighbor who is doing something from a good conscience they're serving God and from a good conscience it may not be fully correct but and he sa he says something along the lines of like don't don't mess them up. 00:38:17.550 --> 00:38:22.030 Like they're they're they have a good conscience they they're serving God from their standpoint. 00:38:22.190 --> 00:38:49.950 Yeah now that even gets tricky today in our modern ways of thinking of you know objective truth or I'm doing it because you know I I'm doing it my way because it's how I feel called to and if it you know is counter to scripture because all scripture's given for he tells Timothy all scripture's given for repro rebuke and reproof for teaching so and admonishing one another. 00:38:50.110 --> 00:39:21.070 And and so it's like there is a call to that but at the same time it's like first analyze is this worth bringing up is this worth yes creating any kind of uh obstacle yeah are you is what they're doing really an obstacle he he uses the example of food and I'm so sorry I cannot I was in it this week I think it's 10 but he uses the example of food a couple times where where either it's food sacrifice to idols or getting into the whole clean and unclean thing. 00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:23.870 He's a everything given from God is good. 00:39:24.430 --> 00:39:30.030 Start there and and come from it from a loving standpoint is the key to all of this. 00:39:30.190 --> 00:39:30.510 Yes. 00:39:30.990 --> 00:39:40.269 Not coming in from a you're hey you gotta get this right you're going the wrong way this hey I care about you and let's work this out. 00:39:40.430 --> 00:40:17.789 Look I've even got this plank in my eye I'm working on it you know I I will say this real quick I'm so sorry because this happened just this week I a difficult topic spiritually came up and and our preacher Matthew it just just a discussion between he and I and it kind of caught me off guard and I don't do well if I'm not prepared and everything but luckily we have a really good kind of relationship we could talk about things and and be like just honest and whatever and afterwards you know that was before our classes came back afterwards and I told him he's like man I hope I didn't come off the wrong way. 00:40:17.870 --> 00:40:47.789 This is something I'm still navigating myself and he's like hey me too you know in his Matthew way Matthew proposed this it caught me off guard like that's a brilliant idea I don't know why I didn't think about this but he offered he's like how about on this topic we just be let's become conversation part conversation partners or whatever he called it basically accountability partners as far as I because the the subject in particular one of the things is hard is to to know how to be how to approach it from a sensitive standpoint. 00:40:47.950 --> 00:40:59.470 If it you know if it's something that I'm not very familiar with or don't really have a lot of experience in it's hard for me to broach that subject without being sensitive insensitive or something like that. 00:40:59.550 --> 00:41:03.070 And he's like man that's that's my fear too so he's like let's talk about it. 00:41:03.230 --> 00:41:12.430 That way I can speak open and honest and then he can give me some feedback and vice versa as far as hey I don't know if that's going to come out the right way. 00:41:12.750 --> 00:41:23.390 I see what you're saying but I don't so something along those lines that that's what it was it was refreshing and also man why didn't I think of that that's a brilliant idea. 00:41:23.550 --> 00:41:30.990 But that's coming from a place of love and and meeting me where I was and being honest of where he is and let's grow together. 00:41:31.470 --> 00:41:37.070 Sorry I didn't need to get into all that but I think that was a a perfect example of what we're talking about. 00:41:38.670 --> 00:42:45.309 I think that's a great point and thinking about the next section of this chapter kind of moving from that into another really powerful and honestly both challenging and simultaneously hopeful section of this chapter where we talk about discipline and suffering, the trials that we go through in life I think that this this section the section verses four through eleven here really shows that in life we have a I'd call it I I'd even call it a temptation to to see suffering and the trials that we face as being implicitly a bad thing or implicitly something we we we should want to avoid. 00:42:46.269 --> 00:42:58.190 And alongside that I think that there is a a continued theme throughout the book of Hebrews and we see the the focus on faith in this chapter. 00:42:58.269 --> 00:43:42.190 There's this continued theme of holding fast to the faith in spite of what might come your way this chapter starts with running this race and and and being kind of cheered on by this cloud of witnesses and here we see this move into reframing the discipline quote unquote that we experience in the trials and and and tribulations of our life as something that shows that God actually loves us and shows us that we have growth and purpose beyond just constantly being showered with good things if that makes sense. 00:43:42.269 --> 00:43:45.309 And I I think it's a really powerful section. 00:43:45.710 --> 00:44:19.710 Yeah I agree I love this section recently in my life it has come up a few times and I've just been just really grateful thinking about God's discipline our father's discipline to us and how he is refining us and conforming us into his image I love how this section starts off it's actually making me think of a conversation we just had Lacey at your job but so the section starts off with verse four and it says you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood and you're striving against sin. 00:44:19.950 --> 00:44:45.309 And to me it just reads Stop your complaining

like you have not shed blood you have not had to endure what Jesus has endured You've not had to endure what the disciples had to endure by getting sawed into or being crucified upside down or just all of the horrible deaths that they had to endure. 00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:47.470 And especially Paul. 00:44:47.630 --> 00:44:47.870 Yeah. 00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:50.670 That's right. 00:44:50.910 --> 00:44:52.030 Humbly, right? 00:44:52.510 --> 00:45:08.269 So I just I love, I love that it like what Taylor's saying that begins the chapter gentle and saying, like look to these leaders in your faith during your struggle, and then by section two, it's stop your complaining. 00:45:08.510 --> 00:45:09.150 I love it. 00:45:09.390 --> 00:45:16.190 But but real quick onto that that point, I think another way of saying it is change your perspective or have some perspective. 00:45:16.350 --> 00:45:22.830 And I think that's going to be a key kind of thing too for this whole chapter when we're talking discipline and struggle. 00:45:22.910 --> 00:45:31.789 It's you know, discipline has almost become a naughty word some in some facets, even in the church. 00:45:32.110 --> 00:45:44.910 You know, yeah, you have people that come from we've talked about before, quote unquote church hurt, church burn, where okay, we don't broach discipline because that that was that negatively impacted me or somebody. 00:45:45.070 --> 00:45:51.710 And so we're gonna move away from the discipline part and more on the love part, which that that's good. 00:45:51.870 --> 00:45:53.630 I think, but all of it is good. 00:45:53.789 --> 00:45:58.830 I think the discipline part is good, and I like how Hebrews 12 presents that discipline. 00:45:58.990 --> 00:46:00.510 It's a change of perspective. 00:46:00.590 --> 00:46:05.710 It's not just here's the rules, and you have to obey the rules. 00:46:05.870 --> 00:46:19.070 Like, you know, I my mind went to circumcision, and you know, when Paul and Peter are are going about, people are teaching you have to be circumcised to be saved. 00:46:19.470 --> 00:46:20.750 Trying to think of a better example. 00:46:20.830 --> 00:46:25.470 I'm sorry, I I hate talking about circumcision, but it's it's it's on the nose. 00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:38.030 It's like, you know, Christ has come, he's died, he's been resurrected, he's ascended, and you still have a sect that is saying, well, you still have to be, you know, just like it says in the old law, you have to be circumcised. 00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:53.870 And Peter and Paul and all of them are saying, Oh, like, you know, you had this new circumcision, or there's a lot to be said about it, but you get into that where it's like people are harping on discipline in that way. 00:46:54.030 --> 00:46:56.269 You have to do this and you have to do that. 00:46:57.230 --> 00:47:04.190 As we're gonna about to see, it's like it's changing your perspective on what discipline is as someone who is being disciplined. 00:47:04.670 -->

00:47:06.030 Exactly what you're talking about. 00:47:06.190 --> 00:47:10.990 You know, think about you think your struggle's bad, change your perspective. 00:47:11.309 --> 00:47:12.750 Go to Guatemala. 00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:13.950 That's right, yeah. 00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:15.230 Serve people. 00:47:15.630 --> 00:47:24.590 One thing that keeps popping up is like, you know, you hear in our generation, our day and time of you know, people are starting to struggle. 00:47:24.830 --> 00:47:28.750 You know, finances are getting tight, every you know, everybody's starting to struggle. 00:47:28.910 --> 00:47:36.190 The best perspective I can have is like, look at how wealthy we are compared to the rest of the world. 00:47:36.430 --> 00:47:43.070 Not to say, oh, I'm better than you, but just like, man, I may feel like I'm struggling, but I still have food in the fridge. 00:47:43.309 --> 00:47:44.030 I'm well off. 00:47:44.269 --> 00:47:46.670 I have power, I have indoor plumbing. 00:47:47.070 --> 00:47:54.430 I I can get water, you know, for and do you know, doing nothing to get it. 00:47:54.510 --> 00:47:56.110 I can just flip a switch and get it. 00:47:56.269 --> 00:48:00.510 So having that perspective is is is game changer. 00:48:00.750 --> 00:48:08.670 Um, I literally saw a reel on Instagram today that said, like, I'm 2026 poor, but I'm 1990s rich. 00:48:10.590 --> 00:48:14.110 Yes, if you think about it, we have so much more. 00:48:14.430 --> 00:48:14.750 Yes. 00:48:15.550 --> 00:48:18.910 So yeah, relativity and inflation about the same thing. 00:48:19.390 --> 00:48:24.990 Yes, but but also okay, Sabrina, back to your point about you know, stop complaining. 00:48:25.230 --> 00:48:27.870 We are so quick to complain about everything. 00:48:29.230 --> 00:48:33.309 Yes, we we we listen to girls she's talking about me, guys. 00:48:33.550 --> 00:48:34.670 Do not talk about her. 00:48:34.910 --> 00:48:48.030 Uh we we are so quick to complain, but I I heard um I heard a speaker once about how you know we're so we're it we're so quick to if God loved me, he wouldn't let this happen. 00:48:48.269 --> 00:48:52.030 Or if God loved me, then I wouldn't be struggling financially or whatever. 00:48:52.269 --> 00:48:53.870 The cross was enough. 00:48:54.830 --> 00:49:05.870 Like if God did literally nothing else for us except send his son to save us, that was enough. 00:49:06.030 --> 00:49:06.590 Absolutely. 00:49:06.750 --> 00:49:19.710 And so, so we we and I'm talking to me, we have got to let go of that sense of like entitlement, yeah, basically, where it's like, oh, well, because I'm a believer, I should have it easy. 00:49:19.789 --> 00:49:21.230 It's like, no, yeah. 00:49:21.470 --> 00:49:34.510 Well, okay, I love that point because it makes me think of the verse that we mentioned earlier in chapter five about how we should receive God's word not just as milk, but instead like in a mature way. 00:49:34.750 --> 00:49:39.630 And we were listening to this, the

speaker on the way over here. 00:49:40.430 --> 00:49:43.870 We love Father Stephen DeYoung. 00:49:43.950 --> 00:49:47.309 He's a really great Orthodox preacher. 00:49:47.550 --> 00:50:10.750 And he did the sermon, or really not a sermon, but just a conversation on Hebrews 12 and brought up a great perspective of when we think about being a child, whether you had a good father or a father who really struggled, you are you have a perspective of his discipline in a way that is going to look different as an adult. 00:50:10.910 --> 00:50:20.590 And so when you're a child, you you perceive your parents as being unfair, cruel, unkind, not wanting you to have fun. 00:50:20.830 --> 00:50:31.550 But as an adult, hopefully you look back and you realize they were trying to protect me, they were trying to get me ready for being an adult and being a pleasant and good adult. 00:50:31.789 --> 00:50:33.230 I'm still not convinced. 00:50:33.470 --> 00:50:59.630 And if you didn't, if you didn't have a good father, well, then you realize how important it, you know, it is to have discipline because a good parent or a some a parent who is letting their child, you know, stick a fork in an outlet, he literally uses that example, or they're you know, asleep or struggling and don't even know where their child is at. 00:50:59.789 --> 00:51:04.110 We wouldn't look at that parent and say, that's a a loving, a good parent. 00:51:04.190 --> 00:51:05.710 No, that's neglectful. 00:51:05.950 --> 00:51:09.950 And so just to to it's it's an example, right? 00:51:10.110 --> 00:51:14.670 Like God is disciplining us because he loves us. 00:51:14.750 --> 00:51:20.990 And I think that we see discipline as an adult in a different way than we see discipline as a child. 00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:27.710 And it reminds me of chapter five where it's saying like we should be receiving God's word with mature hearts. 00:51:27.870 --> 00:51:30.190 Um yeah. 00:51:30.590 --> 00:51:37.230 I just want to say too that you I know you you're speaking specifically to parents. 00:51:39.070 --> 00:51:40.510 We're a child of a parent. 00:51:40.670 --> 00:51:43.309 So like we're all children of some parent. 00:51:43.630 --> 00:51:43.710 Yeah. 00:51:44.030 --> 00:51:44.269 Yeah. 00:51:44.590 --> 00:51:49.309 But but I you know, I'm my mind goes to, you know, like where you mentioned an example. 00:51:49.550 --> 00:52:00.110 We have those parent examples, but some of us have been very blessed to have not only, you know, the parent example, but the grandparent example on top of that. 00:52:00.590 --> 00:52:03.950 And you know, you've mentioned it on already on this episode. 00:52:04.110 --> 00:52:06.990 I've mentioned it in the past or and briefly on this one. 00:52:07.230 --> 00:52:07.870 Yeah. 00:52:08.110 --> 00:52:26.670 I think if anything, just pause a moment and be thankful for those parents, biological, not biological, whatever, those parent parent parental influences that mimic and and have been a gateway

to Christ or a gateway to knowing God. 00:52:27.390 --> 00:52:36.990 Even if you don't fully agree with them or or or whatever, any kind of those examples that have opened that door, be be thankful for those. 00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:39.630 It goes back to the cloud of witnesses that we've talked about. 00:52:39.710 --> 00:52:45.789 And I but I just wanted to pause for a second, just uh remind myself and all of us, just let's be thankful for those. 00:52:45.870 --> 00:52:46.910 I I've been so blessed. 00:52:47.070 --> 00:52:53.950 Like I said, my I've had coup two grandfathers who are prime examples who have gone now. 00:52:54.110 --> 00:52:58.750 And but it hasn't le God has not left a void there. 00:52:58.910 --> 00:53:09.470 I've got parents filling that filling that gap uh every day in in ways that I don't see and I don't have to talk to them to know that they're filling that role. 00:53:09.710 --> 00:53:16.190 And I do want to add to an actual like maybe discipline as far as practice goes, like a daily discipline practice. 00:53:16.269 --> 00:53:24.350 So like when I when we're talking about like, you know, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord. 00:53:25.470 --> 00:53:27.070 I I think of it in two terms. 00:53:27.230 --> 00:53:32.030 You have those quick sins that pop up, you know, the reactionary. 00:53:32.430 --> 00:53:35.630 Oh, I got angry and I did this, or I said this. 00:53:36.190 --> 00:53:48.510 Those to me are tend to be now in in this stage of life, the difficult ones because now you there's the regret and there's the I struggle with like I can't do anything about that. 00:53:48.670 --> 00:53:55.710 All I can do is now it's incumbent on me to to learn from that at the is the key discipline here. 00:53:55.870 --> 00:53:57.309 Learning from that. 00:53:57.470 --> 00:53:58.910 What did it what did I do wrong? 00:53:59.070 --> 00:54:00.269 What could I have done better? 00:54:00.430 --> 00:54:04.350 And then just you know, it's that whole putting that into practice. 00:54:04.430 --> 00:54:05.309 I'm gonna fall again. 00:54:05.390 --> 00:54:08.670 And when you fall multiple times in the same way, that gets frustrating. 00:54:08.830 --> 00:54:17.070 So you have that aspect, then you have the other aspect of struggles that just last, and they're just this is going on and going on and going on. 00:54:17.230 --> 00:54:24.190 I'm praying, um, you know, God take this away, help me with this, guide me in this. 00:54:25.390 --> 00:54:35.070 I've when it going through that, I've come to a place of asking this question what is the lesson I need to learn in this? 00:54:35.550 --> 00:54:40.590 It's been less about God fix this, God cure this, whatever. 00:54:40.750 --> 00:54:45.070 It's been more of what what is it I'm I I'm meant to learn? 00:54:45.390 --> 00:54:49.070 And you start to appreciate that thorn in the flesh, like Paul talks about. 00:54:49.230 --> 00:54:51.309 There's strength, my grace is sufficient. 00:54:51.470 --> 00:54:55.230 There's strength, there's power in the in weakness. 00:54:56.030 --> 00:55:28.530 Man, those words just memorize that one verse and just repeat it to yourself, and repeat it to yourself and repeat it to yourself because uh man, it it's gotten me through so much. 00:55:28.610 --> 00:55:37.890 But I think the key question, whether you're dealing with regret and you want to do better, or you're dealing with something, you're in the midst of it, what is the lesson I'm supposed to be learning? 00:55:38.050 --> 00:55:40.370 What is it I need to be taking away from this? 00:55:40.610 --> 00:55:46.130 And it takes your mind away from that struggle and what you know, God, why are you doing this to me? 00:55:46.210 --> 00:55:56.290 Why haven't you done this into a place of God is loving me and He's trying to communicate with me of what I need how I can serve Him better. 00:55:58.769 --> 00:56:00.290 Yeah, I love that then. 00:56:00.690 --> 00:56:19.250 I think that what you're describing to and what this one reason why I love this section of scripture is because it is in some way a tangible example of repentance. 00:56:20.930 --> 00:56:42.769 And what I you know, what like what I guess like what we often think of when we think of repentance is this you know, throwing your hands up and getting on your knees and having this emotional, you know, deep re experience where you're feeling maybe shame or guilt or regret or some emotional overwhelm. 00:56:43.650 --> 00:56:57.250 And sure, moments of repentance can look like that, but really in the truest sense of the word metanoia in the Greek, to change one's perspective and mind. 00:56:58.610 --> 00:57:06.130 And this is why I love this section so much, is because it's calling us to change our mind about suffering. 00:57:07.090 --> 00:57:17.490 It's calling us to repent of the way that we want to see the challenges and ups and downs of life. 00:57:18.370 --> 00:57:39.650 So what you described uh just now, which I thought was really you did just it was it was really well put where you were describing this process by which we say, Hey, actually this thorn that won't go away, this thing that I'm struggling with, this this path that is difficult is teaching me something. 00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:45.810 And the the the teacher is is giving me the opportunity to learn. 00:57:46.370 --> 00:58:14.130 And so what is God calling me to take away, I think is a brilliant mode of repentance, a way to say, I used to think of suffering as, oh mercy me, and I'm just you know the victim, or I used to think of suffering as God has abandoned me and I have no future, or I used to think of suffering as I have to lash out in my pain. 00:58:14.690 --> 00:58:28.050 Whatever you may be doing with your suffering, this section of scripture is saying, hey, no, actually what you're going through, this difficult thing, is meant ultimately for your good. 00:58:28.850 --> 00:58:42.610 And and the Lord, like any good father, is in this

process of of disciplining those that he loves because he loves them. 00:58:42.930 --> 00:58:48.690 Because like what Sabrina said, a a parent would not let their kid stick a fork in an outlet. 00:58:48.850 --> 00:58:51.970 You wouldn't let your kid stand outside in the middle of a hurricane. 00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:57.570 Sometimes our ideas are actually not the right ideas for our life, right? 00:58:57.650 --> 00:58:58.370 It turns out. 00:58:58.530 --> 00:59:00.930 So I thought I thought that that was really. 00:59:23.570 --> 00:59:30.210 Because off that idea that you hear often, God doesn't give you more than you can you're you're able to bear. 00:59:31.570 --> 00:59:39.010 And if it I think that's a verse, I feel like I've seen saw somewhere where that's not actually a verse, it's just a saying. 00:59:39.250 --> 00:59:51.810 Either way, I think that kind of idea might be a good one to have too, to know the that kind of sets the table to know that this this is a lesson and I am capable of bearing it. 00:59:51.890 --> 00:59:58.850 And uh real quick, I will just add because I've been searching for that, I actually came across James, James chapter four. 00:59:58.930 --> 01:00:00.610 I just add this little piece. 01:00:03.970 --> 01:00:06.610 You do not have because you do not ask. 01:00:06.850 --> 01:00:15.810 You ask and do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives, so that you may spend what you request on your pleasures. 01:00:16.050 --> 01:00:17.090 Goes back to repentance. 01:00:17.250 --> 01:00:20.769 Repentance, I'd love I'll I'll I'll define it like this. 01:00:21.090 --> 01:00:26.850 You were painting this picture of ongoing intentional act with purpose. 01:00:27.010 --> 01:00:36.210 I love how you you were you were talking about it's we think of repentance as this one thing, you know, re believe, repent, be baptized, repent, and recite this. 01:00:36.850 --> 01:00:39.330 It is it's an ongoing thing. 01:00:39.570 --> 01:00:59.650 I've I've repented and I've been baptized, I'm still repenting daily, and I it is an ongoing intentional act, it's an it's a way of living with purpose and intent, and that intent is serving God, and you know, and I think that's the motive. 01:01:00.050 --> 01:01:13.010 That's it's not about my pleasures and the pleasures that I see and lust after here on earth, the things that I want and and uh high hold in high regard, it's it's something more. 01:01:13.250 --> 01:01:17.250 Those people in Hebrews 11 that were promised and they received something greater. 01:01:17.330 --> 01:01:23.490 I believe there is something greater, and that is that is the motive and and that relationship with God. 01:01:23.810 --> 01:01:28.530 Yeah, yeah, I agree, and I think that we have two choices. 01:01:28.850 --> 01:01:44.130 We can either be shaped and formed and refined by our struggles, and God will bring about fruits after we get through our struggles, and oftentimes he just says, just sit still and wait. 01:01:44.370

--> 01:01:52.210 And it's I mean, it's not anything that we have to do during our struggles other than receive his love for us that's already there. 01:01:52.450 --> 01:02:02.850 We don't have to fight back, he's he's doing the fighting for us, and so I have personally experienced fruit in my life because of a struggle. 01:02:03.250 --> 01:02:03.810 What'd you say? 01:02:03.970 --> 01:02:06.769 Like a coconut, uh spirit's not a coconut, yeah. 01:02:06.850 --> 01:02:08.530 That's like in your head now, you're welcome. 01:02:08.769 --> 01:02:09.010 Sorry. 01:02:09.250 --> 01:02:23.810 No worries, and then but or so we could either go down that path and allow God to refine us, or we can sit with resentment and hatred towards others or blaming others. 01:02:23.970 --> 01:02:26.930 Yeah, and that obviously is gonna do the opposite. 01:02:27.090 --> 01:02:33.890 Um bitterness, that's one that's at home. 01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:35.490 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 01:02:36.210 --> 01:02:50.290 Well, this next section I thought was interesting too, moving into verses 18 through 24, where we see this comparison of Mount Sinai and of Zion. 01:02:50.690 --> 01:02:51.090 Wow. 01:02:51.410 --> 01:03:00.850 This this is a really just triumphant and beautiful section of Hebrews 12. 01:03:01.650 --> 01:03:08.610 I love the I love the contrast of some of these descriptions. 01:03:08.769 --> 01:03:27.650 I mean, we have fire, darkness, gloom, we have trumpets blasting, and then we've also got this myriad of angels, and we've got this righteous, these righteous and made perfect spirits. 01:03:27.810 --> 01:03:34.690 We've got human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, masses area. 01:03:35.010 --> 01:03:36.530 Is that the picture you're painting? 01:03:36.769 --> 01:03:41.410 The picture is really beautiful, almost like Ghostbusters. 01:03:42.450 --> 01:04:20.610 I think that this is just I I love that this part of scripture draws this parallel and shows us that while God is kind of like what we talked about in the last episode, just his holiness is in some way unfathomable, unfathomable, unapproachable, impossible to comprehend through the blood of Jesus, which this verse says is better spoken than the blood of Abel. 01:04:21.090 --> 01:04:55.090 That through that blood and through this covenant, this new covenant that we have in Jesus' blood, that we are not in this place of terrified, unapproachable scaredness, this this place that Moses was in of being terrified and trembling, but that rather that we have come into this assembly, this kind of tying it back to the cloud of witnesses, that we are in this assembly of angels, of saints, that that is that is our kingdom. 01:04:55.330 --> 01:05:07.810 That is that is just so hopeful to me, that that's what we are called to live into, to in to inherit, and really to now begin to inhabit that reality. 01:05:07.970 --> 01:05:16.610 You know, we're on the we're on this side of heaven, as as the saying goes, but but but

that that's the destination that we're heading towards. 01:05:16.690 --> 01:05:19.330 And what an amazing description of that place. 01:05:19.730 --> 01:05:21.810 I I just I love these verses. 01:05:22.050 --> 01:05:30.050 And my question, I guess, for the group is that I was kind of meditating on was that that description of Abel's blood. 01:05:30.769 --> 01:05:35.250 You know, how what do we see the blood of Abel crying out for? 01:05:37.170 --> 01:05:42.450 And what does Jesus' blood do to show us a different vision, I guess. 01:05:43.730 --> 01:05:50.050 Because to me, Abel's blood is is it's crying out for for justice. 01:05:51.490 --> 01:06:01.810 That his brother has taken his life in this hateful, jealous way, and there is not that that justice. 01:06:01.890 --> 01:06:06.930 I mean it and and yet Jesus' blood is saying mercy. 01:06:07.170 --> 01:06:09.730 You know, to me that that dichotomy is so great. 01:06:09.970 --> 01:06:11.890 Well, that's very interesting that you say justice. 01:06:12.690 --> 01:06:17.330 True, real pure justice is righteousness. 01:06:19.650 --> 01:06:29.490 And and I I did I want to say this too, real quick, because what you're describing, this blood of Christ, it's it grants access. 01:06:30.210 --> 01:06:36.050 I think that's what you're you're th all of what you said, I think, was describing, but just to kind of put a point on is uh access. 01:06:36.210 --> 01:06:37.410 We have access now. 01:06:37.730 --> 01:06:37.970 Right. 01:06:38.290 --> 01:06:40.930 That that changes the perspective. 01:06:41.010 --> 01:06:42.290 Like going back to the perspective. 01:06:42.850 --> 01:06:49.890 You think about these you know, how easy we have it, not just materially and in the world, but just spiritually. 01:06:50.769 --> 01:06:53.650 We have such convenient access. 01:06:54.690 --> 01:06:59.570 To God to Christ in information. 01:06:59.890 --> 01:07:01.170 I can dig up the Greek. 01:07:01.330 --> 01:07:05.090 I don't speak Greek, but I can dig up the Greek words and I can see wherever they appear. 01:07:05.250 --> 01:07:07.170 I can see the Greek text, the Hebrew text. 01:07:07.650 --> 01:07:16.690 But you know, we have all this access to information, which is a blessing if we use it, and to the access to just approach God. 01:07:17.490 --> 01:07:24.850 And instead of, you know, having to have someone go into the temple for us and pray for us. 01:07:25.010 --> 01:07:28.050 But uh that changed the adds perspective. 01:07:29.010 --> 01:07:51.570 Um with Abel, so Abel and Jesus were were both innocent, but with Abel, it was all questions, and and he did not give up his wife willingly, where Jesus he said, I am going to pour out my blood for you. 01:07:51.810 --> 01:07:52.290 Yeah. 01:07:52.610 --> 01:07:57.650 And and and even on the cross, he says, Father, forgive them. 01:07:57.730 --> 01:08:02.930 Like he's extending grace, like in the final moments of his life. 01:08:03.090 --> 01:08:06.130 In all this pain, he is still extending grace. 01:08:06.450 --> 01:08:24.930 And so, so where Abel, you know, is like you said, it's a cry for vengeance, it's a cry for justice, but Jesus' blood is a cry of grace and forgiveness and mercy that we don't deserve. 01:08:25.569 --> 01:08:26.930 So well put, Lacey. 01:08:28.210 --> 01:08:28.850 Yeah. 01:08:29.409 --> 01:08:59.409 I thought that also that the yeah, just the the contrast here drawing on Moses and the and and what was described of Mount Sinai, that fear of the Lord that was so overwhelming that they they didn't even they could barely stand the voice. 01:08:59.970 --> 01:09:06.369 And yet Jesus constantly is speaking in a voice that is inviting us in. 01:09:07.810 --> 01:09:34.599 You say fear, you know, we often well, especially in this kind of setting in Bible studies or something like that, fear we're we're quick to remind, okay, fear also means respect. 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:36.119 There's a respectful fear. 01:09:36.439 --> 01:09:37.800 I think it's more than that. 01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:43.079 I think fear in this context is a forcible respect. 01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:47.159 You have no other choice that to respect. 01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:58.359 Like I am shaking, I am scared, out of my wits, I have nothing but to do, I have no nothing to do but respect this power. 01:09:58.519 --> 01:10:01.960 It is greater than me, it is greater than anything. 01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:06.920 So I I would say I would kind of put it that way, forcible respect. 01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:09.639 I do want to say real quick too. 01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:12.439 I I'm sorry. 01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:14.760 I was I was gonna add that about fear. 01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:15.559 Oh no. 01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:18.519 I I mean to cut you off on your point. 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:36.680 But I did want to add, kind of going off what Lacey was saying, what Lacey was saying was that we talked about earlier, you know, this the circ the circumstances, Taylor, you brought up about relationships, difficult rel interpersonal relationships that we struggle with. 01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:42.519 And you know, we look to our relationship with God, and then we also look to our relationship with our neighbor. 01:10:42.599 --> 01:10:45.960 How do we treat those difficult relationships? 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:52.599 The way you presented it, I was thinking more in the context of kind of like a of a friend that may not be a good influence. 01:10:52.920 --> 01:10:57.239 Can I overcome that as a positive influence, or do I need to separate myself from that? 01:10:57.479 --> 01:10:59.720 That was just kind of where my mind went when you're describing it. 01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:07.159 I also think thinking the context of those people who the Bible says persecute you. 01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:15.720 To me, I think today's terms, I think those it's for me, it's more applicable to think about those people who aggravate you. 01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:17.479 You know, in

whatever setting. 01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:25.319 Those people that really just kind of push you, push your patience, push your love, push your discipline. 01:11:25.559 --> 01:11:29.159 Those people that you know you just don't mix well with. 01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:30.680 I think think of those people. 01:11:30.840 --> 01:11:34.760 First off, start by praying for those people uh for those people. 01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:35.319 Yes. 01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:41.880 If you can start from that place, and and I I've done it, I tried to be more consistent about it. 01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:43.800 It so far it hasn't gotten easier. 01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:47.319 It's still, you know, that that's a difficult prayer. 01:11:47.639 --> 01:11:50.760 But that's the lesson, I feel like. 01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:53.559 That in my experience, that's the lesson I needed to learn. 01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:57.880 I needed to learn how to love even those people that aggravate you. 01:11:58.039 --> 01:11:59.399 They're still souls. 01:11:59.639 --> 01:12:01.559 Jesus still died for them. 01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:09.319 That person that you just dread seeing, you know, whether it's at work or at home, not my ex not my case. 01:12:09.559 --> 01:12:12.519 I'm just saying like any aspect, just consider any aspect. 01:12:12.680 --> 01:12:17.960 I don't I don't have that except maybe an angry three-year-old. 01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:23.159 But yeah, I'm just you know, think of all of your circumstances. 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:31.079 There's, you know, there's always going to be that one that that one person that just you know, you have to kind of tiptoe around or treat different. 01:12:31.639 --> 01:12:34.680 Just think that's the lesson. 01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:36.039 What's the lesson to be learned here? 01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:40.599 And that's I think first start praying for them and start learning how to love them. 01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:45.479 When you learn how to love those those people, you start to learn a lot more about love. 01:12:47.880 --> 01:12:51.720 Well, moving into this last section and kind of wrapping things up here. 01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:59.239 I thought that the way that this chapter ends was really I mean, obviously really powerful. 01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:08.279 We have this again, this imagery of fire and God being like a consuming fire, which I thought was great. 01:13:08.599 --> 01:13:57.720 I guess my my final kind of meditation is this balance, finding this balance between a fear of the Lord, this deep and reverent respect that we have for God, holding on to that, knowing that He is holy and and worthy of praise and in a way beyond our ability to fathom, beyond our ability to look in his face, to see his face, and yet knowing at the same time that we can call him Abba and that we have this intimate relationship as sons and daughters chosen by him. 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:06.439 That balance is just that's one of the things that I thought was highlighted well in

this final section. 01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:25.960 Yeah, that we can offer gratitude to God and serve him with reverence and awe and know that that he consumes up and and burns up the things of the world that are not worth having and he purifies them and and what is left at the end of the day is that which is holy. 01:14:26.119 --> 01:14:28.519 And I just love that description. 01:14:28.760 --> 01:14:29.319 Yeah. 01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:36.599 While you were saying that, Taylor, it made me think back on our original icebreaker question about Esau and Soup. 01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:47.479 And it's it reminds me that we are just constantly distracted by worldly things, things that are that we are tempted to trade our our souls for. 01:14:47.559 --> 01:15:00.920 So I think about like Esau's birthright, it's an inheritance, and our relationship with God and the promise of eternity with him is an inheritance. 01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:07.559 And so, like, what are we distracted by or allowing our souls to be corrupted by? 01:15:07.720 --> 01:15:09.159 Like, what are we trading? 01:15:09.639 --> 01:15:17.800 And it it's a it's a reminder like that that bowl of soup was it was a momentary pleasure, and he regrets it. 01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:21.479 He cries and says, No, please, I I want my birthright. 01:15:21.639 --> 01:15:22.359 He regrets it. 01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:41.639 And so, in the same way, when we are in the middle of suffering and we turn to things that offer momentary pleasure, we I think all of us experience getting through that and then regretting that decision, whatever, like whatever we turn to that momentarily pleases us. 01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:53.399 And to Taylor's point, though that soup or like fill in the blank, whatever it is that is drawing us away from God and our relationship with God, it is temporary. 01:15:53.639 --> 01:15:58.519 And in this last section, God says that his kingdom will not be shaken. 01:15:58.680 --> 01:16:07.000 It is it is the promise that is eternal, it is not the momentary creation from God, it is the creator and his kingdom. 01:16:07.880 --> 01:16:09.559 Robin's not worth it. 01:16:11.479 --> 01:16:12.920 It doesn't say that in here. 01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:23.720 I like how verse 25 says maybe not like, I appreciate and convicted. 01:16:24.760 --> 01:16:29.800 See to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking. 01:16:30.599 --> 01:16:32.519 Here's another change in perspective. 01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:37.479 You know, going back to the the lessons, what's the lesson to be learned? 01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:40.680 What's the takeaway I'm supposed to be get taking away? 01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:44.359 It goes back to your point, Sabrina. 01:16:44.519 --> 01:16:45.559 Like, what are those desires? 01:16:45.639 --> 01:16:50.920 What are those things that what's the ramen that's dr you know that's tempting me? 01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:52.680 Identifying that. 01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:57.960 But you know, I I like I've been referring to what's the lesson. 01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:01.880 Another way of saying it is how is God speaking to you? 01:17:02.199 --> 01:17:03.479 How is he communicating? 01:17:03.639 --> 01:17:05.239 What is he communicating to you? 01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:20.199 Just another little change of perspective there as far as considering it that way, like I love I can say I love Jesus, I love God, I believe in the Christ, but I still struggle with this sin. 01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:23.720 And so when I'm facing the sin, I have to be honest with myself. 01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:27.559 Do I love this sin more than I love Christ? 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:37.960 And if you ask yourself that question point blank and are are completely honest with yourself, knowing that you know God knows you better than you do. 01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:38.519 Right. 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:45.479 He He knows if you're being genuine and you know of of good you know good conscience. 01:17:46.599 --> 01:17:48.680 Be honest with yourself, you love that sin. 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:57.880 With if it's something that you're constantly struggling with and you're continually coming back to, it's you're putting that sin above, you're saying, I love that sin more than I love God. 01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:02.279 Just another da da da change in perspective. 01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:18.920 One final thought on my end that I had noted down the last scripture about all right, let me pull it up because I don't want to mess it up, but for our God as a consuming fire, like that's the last scripture, verse 29. 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:20.920 For our God as a consuming fire. 01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:22.920 Um, well, a few things came to mind. 01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:32.840 Like one, as we were talking about earlier, um, if God is the fire, then we are the molt the metal or gold that's being refined by him. 01:18:33.319 --> 01:18:36.199 And so that like imagery pops into my mind. 01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:41.800 But I don't know if this is right, but I also see this as like fire spreading. 01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:53.880 So just in the same way that we see sin as a disease and sin as spreading, like God and his love and his gospel is spreading as well. 01:18:54.039 --> 01:18:58.359 And so, like, I want to be a part of the gospel that spreads, not the sin. 01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:01.079 Yes, light it up. 01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:14.920 No, and it kind of come back, I kind of come back to that kind of what I referenced earlier, how fortunate we are in this day and age, not only have access to God through prayer, but access through information. 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:19.639 And look, I know small group, we started this earlier in the year. 01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.319 I know it's nothing novel. 01:19:21.559 --> 01:19:29.159 I know every probably one in three people have a podcast now and talking about similar things that we're talking about. 01:19:29.319 --> 01:19:43.720 I know we're not doing anything new and different,

but the fact that we can have this conversation and share it with people in Ashburn, Virginia, you know, Paris and Germany, we can have this conversation like how go it goes back to the consuming fire. 01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:56.359 I feel like there's something there we can get down on ourselves, and especially like uh from as a society, like oh, you know, our our country's headed in the wrong direction, and it's you know, all this negative stuff. 01:19:56.599 --> 01:19:59.639 First off, I'd point you back to 1968. 01:19:59.880 --> 01:20:02.920 You go back there, and it's like, man, we think it's bad now. 01:20:03.079 --> 01:20:04.279 There's some scary times. 01:20:04.359 --> 01:20:07.239 We've been through some very dark and scary times. 01:20:07.639 --> 01:20:10.840 But at the same time, there is a lot of good. 01:20:11.079 --> 01:20:22.840 There's a lot of good, genuine things happening, and you know, and I uh uh it goes back to like I said, uh it's it's all in front of us. 01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:24.199 Right in front of us. 01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:26.920 There's like I said, there's a lot of podcasts like ours. 01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:28.760 My brother does one. 01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:43.639 And you know, so there it's all around us, and the fact that to do something like this, you know, to to just a conversation between the four of us that can reach all all around the world, that's that's a consuming fire. 01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:48.599 I just pray that we're perpetuating the right fire, you know. 01:20:51.079 --> 01:21:05.000 All right, so just one one final thought that I had was I think that there are seasons that we go through of discipline, and there are seasons of suffering, and those are two totally different things. 01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:11.399 I think that like if I lose my job, like that that's a season of discipline. 01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:13.639 Okay, God, what are you trying to teach me? 01:21:13.960 --> 01:21:19.720 But if like with my grandmother getting cancer, that's a season of suffering. 01:21:19.880 --> 01:21:20.199 Yeah. 01:21:20.439 --> 01:21:25.000 And I don't think that that's a season of discipline, or there are lessons in it, yes. 01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:34.439 But I I think that those are two, it it can be two totally different things, but there are lessons to be learned. 01:21:34.599 --> 01:21:41.239 There is joy in the trials in both, but it can be too too totally. 01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:42.119 Does that make sense? 01:21:42.279 --> 01:21:56.119 Yeah, I yeah, I hear you saying like God is not a part of and doesn't want us to suffer, and he's not a part of like our our of our grandparents dying, that's the result of sin and uh us living in a broken world. 01:21:56.359 --> 01:21:57.880 Right, exactly. 01:22:00.599 --> 01:22:02.199 Yeah, I think that's a good point. 01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:20.119 And and when when you look at the this word in Greek that appears here in in Hebrews 12, where it's talking about discipline

really I think it translates pretty well to the formation of character. 01:22:22.039 --> 01:22:26.680 So when you think about it that way, I I think it makes sense, right? 01:22:26.760 --> 01:22:41.159 There are things that God does that strengthen our character, these discipline moments, and that is a different thing than just the consequences of sin and death and and brokenness and the suffering that comes with that. 01:22:41.319 --> 01:22:42.039 So yeah. 01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:44.840 Trying to think of a word. 01:22:44.920 --> 01:22:46.439 It strengthens our character. 01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:50.119 It strengthens our constitution. 01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:53.239 Think of the struggles that you've been through. 01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:54.920 That's another thing to do too. 01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.680 Uh you know, we haven't talked a whole lot about grace. 01:22:59.079 --> 01:23:06.519 I know we've we've talked about it without naming it, but it kind of comes back to I've brought this up before. 01:23:07.399 --> 01:23:17.319 Understanding grace, being able to under you know, understand that it's been extended to you, but learning h when and how to extend it to yourself as well. 01:23:17.880 --> 01:23:34.039 Think about those struggles that you've gone through, even like what Lacey's talking about, whether it's uh you know, loss of a job and what's a lesson, or a lot or or a death or something like you something that you just have to go through, uh a s obstacle or struggle of some kind. 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:40.439 Think of those things and that you're still here. 01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:57.800 You know, that's one thing like going back to those those long-lasting struggles that just hang around, whether it's morning or or you're going through uncertainty of a job or finances, whatever it is, those things that just stick around. 01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:03.960 Think of the times that God's delivered you before. 01:24:04.599 --> 01:24:13.319 I've had to I've learned that lesson where it's like asking and asking and asking, and then I realize God's been answering it the whole time. 01:24:13.399 --> 01:24:14.599 I'm still here. 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:20.920 It may not have met my full expectations of what I was asking for, but he is delivering. 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:30.359 And so recognizing that in a way, extending a little bit of grace to yourself to understand that you've gotten through it before by God's grace. 01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:33.159 God's carried you this far. 01:24:33.319 --> 01:24:34.039 You're still here. 01:24:34.199 --> 01:24:40.840 I mean, there's a I think there's a good time too for healthy appreciation of how far we've come. 01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:55.639 You know, we we briefly talked about Moses and and the Israelites and Mount Sinai, you know, and I and I think one of the most beautiful moments in the Bible I've talked about before, Moses on you know Mount Mebo was it? 01:24:55.800 --> 01:25:12.519 Anyway, the last day of Moses,

he's on the mountaintop of God, just sitting there and just man, how can you not sit there and just think back at all those reflect or all those struggles, all those times those people that aggravated you would not stop. 01:25:12.920 --> 01:25:20.279 And God got you through it, and here you are sitting on the mountaintop with him, and just you and him at the end of it, that's all it's you and him. 01:25:21.319 --> 01:25:22.359 Remember that. 01:25:22.519 --> 01:25:30.519 Remember appreciate that uh and know that he's gotten you this far and and that he's gonna continue to lead you if you allow him. 01:25:32.279 --> 01:25:35.800 You have survived 100% of your bad days. 01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:36.599 Right. 01:25:37.079 --> 01:25:39.720 80% of the time it works every time. 01:25:40.039 --> 01:25:41.079 That's right. 01:25:42.039 --> 01:25:46.920 Well, this has been, I think, a really interesting discussion of Hebrews 12. 01:25:47.399 --> 01:25:52.920 I don't know if there are any final thoughts wrapping up here on the table. 01:25:53.319 --> 01:25:55.559 I got one more quick one. 01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:59.960 I uh I I I know I plugged Hebrews 11 at the beginning. 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:02.199 I'm gonna plug Hebrews 13 here at the end. 01:26:02.519 --> 01:26:03.079 Here we go. 01:26:03.319 --> 01:26:08.920 Because there is a verse that goes off of something uh Sabrina uh in particular you brought up. 01:26:09.559 --> 01:26:17.720 But also I've talked about before a project we've been working on that we haven't released yet, Profiles of Faith, shameless plug. 01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:33.880 It's a s a project that I've I've been just trying to get some of the more seasoned veterans of life who get their and sit down with them, do one-on-one and and just get their whole story and and their thoughts on faith and what it is and what it has meant to them. 01:26:34.359 --> 01:26:48.279 By the way, I will be here soon releasing at least an audio version on our on our channel of of an episode to at least give a preview, let you guys I keep referencing it so you guys know what I'm talking about. 01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:57.800 The verse I selected for that project, just kind of like the the main verse to kind of keep in mind that pop that comes out is 13 Hebrews 13, 7. 01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:11.479 Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you, and considering the result of their way of life, imitate their faith. 01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:23.079 Find those people that have influenced you in the right way, recognize those those examples and and learn from them. 01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:30.199 And even in the deck, maybe there's some stuff that maybe they're not good examples of. 01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:32.199 You can still learn from if that makes sense. 01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:44.359 So you know, it's like learn from their mistakes and and and grow from what they've learned and those lessons that they've those struggles that they've gone through and those lessons they've taken away from that. 01:27:46.840 --> 01:28:02.439 Well I'm really glad that we love and serve a God who, like fire, consumes impurities, consumes hearts, and lights people up with the love of Jesus. 01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:03.399 It's great. 01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:13.479 So I'm glad we got to discuss Hebrews twelve and yeah, looking forward to the next time. 01:28:13.720 --> 01:28:16.519 It's always a fun fun time at the table. 01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:20.519 I'll try just as a last verse. 01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:22.599 That that last one was kind of a shameless plug. 01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:26.119 But something to kind of like just take with you. 01:28:27.319 --> 01:28:34.359 13 1 of the brothers and sisters Philadelphia. 01:28:35.239 --> 01:28:38.359 Let Philadelphia continue. 01:28:39.479 --> 01:28:43.880 I think that's pretty it reaches a lot of the points I think we were getting to. 01:28:44.039 --> 01:28:44.359 Yeah. 01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:47.720 Does that satisfy your Hebrews 12 itch? 01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:47.880 Yeah. 01:28:48.279 --> 01:28:49.800 Or at least a little bit. 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:50.760 I shouldn't say it. 01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:52.039 It was you, Taylor. 01:28:52.119 --> 01:28:55.159 You're yes. 01:28:55.720 --> 01:28:56.359 I think so. 01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:57.800 I'm I love it. 01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:03.479 I'm like I said, you brought up earlier in the week Hebrews 12 is something you want to talk about. 01:29:03.639 --> 01:29:04.840 Hey, I'm here for it, man. 01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:06.039 Hebrews anything. 01:29:06.119 --> 01:29:06.599 Let's go. 01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:07.000 Yeah. 01:29:07.159 --> 01:29:07.800 Let's go. 01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:09.239 Really powerful book. 01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:14.680 So uh, well, I'll just You'll be back. 01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:18.840 Sorry, I've been getting new buttons and I wanted to try that one out. 01:29:19.079 --> 01:29:30.519 We thank you guys so much for joining us tonight and continuously being here for our small group, being part of our small group family. 01:29:30.599 --> 01:29:37.479 Like I said earlier, you know, there's a lot of options out there, and we're so thankful that uh you would include us. 01:29:37.639 --> 01:29:45.960 And we just pray and hope that you know we've given you some good, pure, wholesome, good things to just think on and consider. 01:29:46.680 --> 01:30:00.680 And if there's anything that you feel like we may be missing, falling short, or something that we haven't discussed yet that you really are eager to hear and learn or know more about, please just let us know. 01:30:00.760 --> 01:30:03.399 You can comment, you can uh contact us. 01:30:03.559 --> 01:30:05.720 All the information's in the description of the podcast. 01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:08.519 Uh leave us a message, we'd love to hear from you. 01:30:08.680 --> 01:30:10.439 And uh up until the next time, guys. 01:30:10.519 --> 01:30:19.960 Thanks for being a part of smaller.