Silent Suffering: When Starvation Becomes Murder의 전체 녹취록

these cases force they force us to confront something uncomfortable. 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:32.719 That harm doesn't always look violent. 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.479 Sometimes it looks like inaction. 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:38.960 Delay, control, and silence. 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:49.439 Starvation isn't just about food. 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:50.560 It's about control. 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.439 Isolation and power. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.360 These cases aren't sudden acts of rage or impulse. 00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:58.479 They're slow. 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:04.719 They unfold over months, sometimes years, through patterns of neglect that end in death. 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.439 That slowness is part of what makes them so dangerous. 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:16.080 Because when harm happens gradually, it's easier for people on the outside, like neighbors, teachers, even doctors to miss it. 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:18.319 Or explain it away. 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:23.280 Especially when caregivers offer these justifications, like, oh, they're a picky eater. 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:25.520 Or they don't like doctors. 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:28.319 Their disability makes things complicated. 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.159 Over time, those excuses pile up and no one intervenes. 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:35.919 And here's something that stopped us cold while researching this case. 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:41.520 In multiple instances, the people accused of starving their dependents were visibly well fed. 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:46.080 In some cases, they were obese while the person in their care was wasting away. 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:51.039 That contrast matters because it tells us this isn't about scarcity. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:53.439 It's not about not having enough. 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:56.319 It's about who gets access and who doesn't. 00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:04.159 Food becomes a tool, a reward, or a punishment, and a way to assert control over someone who can't fight back. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.479 And that's where the line starts to blur. 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:14.800 Because if someone is completely dependent on you for survival and you repeatedly deny them what they need, at what point does it even stop being neglect? 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.680 At what point does it just become intentional harm? 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:25.839 In this episode, we're going to walk through several real cases involving children and disabled adults where starvation wasn't an accident. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:27.040 It was a pattern. 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:32.160 And in some of these cases, the legal system ultimately called it what it was homicide. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:41.759 We'll talk about the psychology behind these crimes, the warning signs that often go unnoticed or ignored, and how prosecutors decide when neglect crosses into murder. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:44.000 Because these stories aren't just tragic. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:45.199 They're instructive. 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:52.000 They show us how easily abuse can hide behind caregiving and how deadly our silence can be. 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:05.759 Paramedics stretched her out of the home and Aaron lifted her to Children's Wisconsin. 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:13.279 At the hospital, doctors diagnosed severe malnutrition, dehydration, and multi-organ failure. 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:15.279 This wasn't a sudden illness. 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.439 Medical staff said her body showed signs of long-term starvation. 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.120 This was one of the hardest things for people to understand about starvation cases. 00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.759 The body just doesn't like shut down all at once. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:32.319 It adapts, it sacrifices, it starts shutting off the system slowly, trying to survive. 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:37.040 Doctors later said her organs were failing because they've been deprived for so long. 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:39.519 This wasn't about missing a few meals. 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:44.079 This was about prolonged deprivation over months, possibly years. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:49.279 As investigators started asking questions, a disturbing picture began to emerge. 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.000 The girl hadn't seen a doctor in five years. 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:53.920 She wasn't enrolled in school. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:02.000 She wasn't being seen regularly by teachers, counselors, coaches, any of the people who are legally required to report concerns. 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.319 In other words, she'd almost been cut off completely from the outside world. 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:12.160 And that isolation matters because isolation is what allows abuse to continue unnoticed. 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.839 When no one's checking in, no one is seeing the warning signs. 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:19.439 Right, so who's responsible for her care? 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:23.360 According to the prosecutors, four adults in the home were charged. 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:33.360 Her father, Walter Goodman, her stepmother, Melissa Goodman, Savannah LaFever, the stepmother's daughter, and Faye Stemmler, Savannah's partner. 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:41.120 All four adults, they were regularly present in the home, and all four of them, the prosecutors say, had responsibility for this child. 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:47.920 Here's a detail investigators couldn't ignore, and it's one we're going to come back through through this episode. 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:55.439 In court filings, prosecutors noted that multiple adults in the home were obese, while teenagers in their care were starving. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.319 That contrast is important because this isn't a household without food. 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.920 This wasn't a situation where no one had access to nutrition. 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:07.040 This is a situation where access was controlled. 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.720 Prosecutors used strong language

early on. 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.920 They described the home as a house of horrors. 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:20.079 And when the prosecutors use language like that, it's usually because the conditions they observed were really extreme. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.839 Not just sad, not just neglect, but shocking. 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:35.600 While many details are being protected because of the victim's age, and it's an ongoing case, authorities were clear that it wasn't like a momentary lapse, this was a pattern. 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:42.320 All four adults were charged with chronic neglect of a child, causing great bodily harm and emotional damage. 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:50.080 Two defendants, Savannah LaFever and Kayla Stemmler, have pleaded not guilty with a trial scheduled for August 2026. 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.600 Walter and Melissa Goodman faced arrangements in January. 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:58.399 There's no verdict yet in their case, but prosecutors have already made their position clear. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:00.320 This was not accidental neglect. 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.120 This was prolonged knowing deprivation. 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:06.799 And this is where the question starts to get uncomfortable. 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:14.320 Because if a child is slowly starving inside your home for years and you do nothing, what is that? 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:22.240 If you isolate them from doctors, from school, from anyone who might notice, is that neglect or is that something more? 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.480 This case forces us to confront how society defines violence. 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:36.639 Because here, there were no signaling blows, no sudden attack, just a long series of choices or non-choices that nearly ended a child's life. 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:40.480 And as horrific as this case is, it's not unique. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:46.320 Because the next story shows what happens when starvation isn't just about control, what about profit? 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.720 Florida disabled child, starvation for profit. 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:59.519 This next case takes us to Florida, and if the first story was about control and isolation, this one adds another layer that's deeply unsettling. 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.399 Because here, starvation wasn't just neglect. 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:04.879 Prosecutors say it was profitable. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.720 The victim was a seven-year-old boy with significant medical needs. 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:17.440 He had spina bifida and hydrocephalitis, conditions that made him completely dependent on adults for feeding, hydration, and medical care. 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:20.480 This wasn't a child who could go grab food on his own. 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:23.919 Survival required daily active intervention. 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:28.399 When the boy died, investigators said he weighed just seven pounds. 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:30.879 Seven pounds. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:32.320 You know how crazy it is? 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:36.320 My daughter was six pounds when she was born and she was small. 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:41.200 Like to put that in perspective, that's less than the average weight of a newborn. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.000 Like, this is a seven-year-old child. 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.480 Medical examiners, they concluded that his death was caused by starvation. 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.159 And almost immediately authorities began asking the same question. 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:54.559 We've all been asking throughout this episode. 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.159 How does this happen when caregivers are present? 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:04.159 As investigators searched the home, they found something that changed the entire trajectory of the case. 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:10.320 There were 264 unopened bottles of prescribed feeding formula inside the house. 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:12.879 This wasn't food that hadn't arrived yet. 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:14.639 It wasn't a supply chain issue. 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:16.480 It wasn't a misunderstanding. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.399 The nutrition was there. 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.879 It just wasn't being given to the child. 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:27.679 That discovery is crucial because it removes one of the most common defenses in neglect cases, lack of resources. 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.840 Prosecutors say this child wasn't starving because there was nothing to feed him. 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.000 He was starving because someone chose not to. 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:41.200 As this investigation unfolded, the list of suspects expanded far beyond a single caregiver. 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:50.240 Authorities charged the child's mother, his brother, his grandfather, a nurse, and a Medicaid provider. 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:54.960 This wasn't a case of just like an overwhelmed parent. 00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:03.279 The prosecutors alleged this was a network of adults, all of whom had some level of responsibility for this child's care, and all of whom failed him. 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:09.840 Charges included first-degree murder, aggravated child abuse, manslaughter, and Medicaid fraud. 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:12.559 And this is where the case takes a darker turn. 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:19.600 According to federal prosecutors, while the child was being starved, Medicaid claims were still being submitted for his care. 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:24.159 Authorities alleged the defendants continued collecting money intended to support the child. 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.639 Money that covered medical care, feeding assistance, and supervision. 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:34.159 The estimated value of the fraudulent claims ranged from$10,000 to$50,000. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:39.360 So while the child's body was wasting away, the system designed to protect him was being exploited. 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.200 Because of that, the case didn't stay in the realm of neglect. 00:12:43.360 -->

00:12:50.799 Prosecutors brought first-degree murder charges along with aggravated child abuse, manslaughter-related counts, and the Medicaid fraud. 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:57.840 This wasn't like framed as an accidental neglect or caregiver burnout, as it's so often tried to be framed. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:03.440 It was framed as intentional deprivation tied to financial gain. 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:09.279 And this distinction matters because legally, motive helps establish intent. 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:14.240 And these suspects have been indicted and they're awaiting trial in federal court. 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:17.759 What makes this case so shocking is how blatant it is. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:24.240 Hundreds of unopened formula bottles, ongoing payments, multiple adults involved. 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:27.279 But what makes it familiar is its pattern. 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.600 The child was medically fragile. 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:30.799 He was dependent. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:33.360 He was largely invisible to the outside world. 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:39.600 The people responsible for him controlling not only his care, but access to anyone who might intervene. 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:46.960 Yeah, this case also forces like a larger conversation about like the systems that are supposed to safeguard these vulnerable people. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:51.519 Because, I mean, how did it continue as long as it did? 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:53.440 Multiple checkpoints they had to fail. 00:13:53.519 --> 00:14:00.240 Like there had to be medical oversight, home health monitoring, Medicaid compliance, mandatory reporting. 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:05.679 At every stage, someone checked a box and the child continued to starve. 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.639 What's especially hard to sit with here is the role of choice. 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.200 Because starvation doesn't happen all at once. 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:19.759 Every day someone decided not to feed him, not to intervene, not to stop collecting money. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.840 This wasn't a bad single decision. 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.559 It was a series of decisions repeated until there was nobody left to sustain. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.759 And that's why prosecutors don't hesitate to use the word murder. 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:36.159 And while this child's story involved money, the next case shows how starvation can happen even without a financial motive. 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.240 When disability and neglect collide, the system looks away. 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:44.320 Cadarus Maddox, Tennessee. 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:52.240 This next case takes us to Clarksville, Tennessee, and it's one that stayed in the court systems for years before there was any resolution. 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.919 It also forces us to sit with the really uncomfortable truth. 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:00.879 Sometimes starvation is obvious, documented, and still allowed to continue. 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.759 Cadarus Maddox was 13 years old. 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:10.159 He had cerebral palsy and required care, supervision, and regular medical attention. 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.320 But doctors who knew him testified that he was cognitively intact. 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.879 He understood what was happening around him. 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.200 He communicated in his own way. 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:23.039 And the people who worked with him said he was hopeful about his future. 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:29.200 On July 6, 2022, first responders were called to the home of Virginia Terrace. 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.679 When they arrived, they found Kadaris dead. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.679 According to medical examiner, he weighed just 35 pounds. 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:40.000 13 years old, 35 pounds. 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:47.279 The autopsy concluded that Cadars died from malnutrition, and his matter of death was ruled a homicide. 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:53.840 Doctors testified that his organs were shrinking because his body had been so deprived of nutrition for so long. 00:15:54.320 --> 00:16:00.879 His body had essentially been forced to prioritize survival of the brain and heart while everything else was shutting down. 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.879 Investigators described the home in severe disray. 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:12.159 Trash covered the floors, Caderas' room was empty, a mattress, bedding, and very little else. 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:18.480 What stood out here just wasn't the condition of the house, but how isolated Caderas had become. 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.320 Despite his medical needs, he wasn't receiving consistent care. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:37.679 Appointments were missed, outside eyes weren't seeing him regularly, and the isolation mattered because multiple witnesses later testified that they were concerned about his weight loss and deterioration, but those concerns never resulted in meaningful intervention. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.960 Kadaris's mother, Cheyenne Dogmatics, denied intentionally harming her son. 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:44.480 She said she loved him. 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.480 She said she didn't wake up one day and decide to stop caring for him. 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:52.639 But prosecutors didn't ar but prosecutors didn't argue that. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:59.360 But prosecutors didn't argue that starvation required a single moment of intent. 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.840 They argued that it required just repeated failure. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:14.720 They pointed to the testimony from medical professionals and caregivers who said Kadaris was not getting enough food, visibly wasting away, and was not receiving the care he needed. 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.720 And that his mother was the one legally responsible for feeding him. 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.440 The prosecutor said it plainly in court. 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.559 He starved to death, according to the medical examiner.

00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:30.000 Cheyenne Maddox was initially charged with first-degree murder and aggravated child neglect. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.880 The case went to trial in October 2025. 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:38.400 After days of testimony and two days of jury deliberation, the jury returned a mixed verdict. 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.799 They found her guilty of reckless homicide and guilty of aggravated child neglect. 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:49.759 They did not convict her on first-degree murder, but they rejected the idea that this was an accident, an unavoidable medical outcome. 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:50.960 Oh, you think? 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:51.839 Yeah. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.759 In February 2026, Shiny Maddox was sentenced to 20 years in prison. 00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.680 Not enough effects me. 00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:08.799 The sentence included three years for reckless homicide and 17 years for aggravated child abuse to be served congruently. 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:22.559 During the sentencing, the judge acknowledged that it's not just the mother's actions, but a broader failure of the system, including child services that occurred shortly before Kadaris died, but it didn't stop the harm. 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:28.000 This case matters because it shows how starvation doesn't require secrecy to be deadly. 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:36.799 There were professionals involved, there were visits, there were concerns raised, and still a child wasted away until his body couldn't survive. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.960 It also matters because a jury was asked to decide something very specific. 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:47.119 Not whether Kadaris was loved, but whether his caregiver acted with reckless disregard for his life. 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.039 And the jury said yes. 00:18:49.519 --> 00:19:02.319 And as devastating as this case is, the next one shows us what happens when starvation doesn't end with a child, but follows someone into adulthood long after the law assumes they should be able to protect themselves. 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.000 Tylim Hatchet, Pennsylvania. 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:13.519 This case is one of the hardest in the entire lineup because it destroys the idea that starvation deaths are something that only happened to children. 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.480 Ty Lim Hatchet was 21 years old. 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:21.519 He was legally an adult, and he was completely dependent on other people to stay alive. 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:29.839 Timlin was blind, he was nonverbal, he used a wheelchair, he had cerebral palsy, and he required round-the-clock care. 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:36.720 He could not feed himself, he could not manage medications, he could not advocate for himself in any meaningful way. 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:44.960 And on the evening of September 18th, 2024, police were called to an apartment complex in Dresher, Pennsylvania. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:47.440 The call came in just before 8 p.m. 00:19:47.839

--> 00:19:50.160 A report of an unresponsive person. 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.839 When officers arrived, they found Tyler lying on the floor. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.119 He was described as severely emaciated. 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.920 He weighed just 59 pounds. 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.920 21 years old, 59 pounds. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.799 The medical examiner later ruled his death a homicide, as they should. 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:15.680 The cause was listed of complications from cerebral palsy and the setting of neglect, so starvation. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:19.839 One detail that stood out immediately to investigators was the timeline. 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:24.319 Timlin's father, Vernon Hatchet, was at the apartment when the police arrived. 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:30.799 He told officers he found his son unresponsive about two hours earlier and didn't call 911 right away. 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.839 What? 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:32.480 Yeah. 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:39.440 That delay became part of the criminal investigation because when someone is completely dependent on you, time matters. 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.880 Two hours? 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.400 I I just I have thoughts on the parents. 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:46.880 And you're unresponsive, two hours. 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:47.519 Right. 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:51.279 And in all these cases, the parents, in all these cases, the medical examiner. 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.960 The homicide, you think the minute you weigh them, like the minute you see them. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.359 Yeah, it's clearly intentional. 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.599 It takes a very long time to do this. 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:09.440 As detectives began reconstructing like the months leading up to Talon's death, the picture became even more disturbing. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:20.880 From February 2024 to September 2024, he lost 31 pounds, dropping from 91 pounds to 59 pounds in roughly seven months. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:31.440 Court records show that during the last 18 days of his life, Telon was left alone in the apartment for 356 out of the 425 hours. 00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.079 That's more than 80% of the time. 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:41.279 He wasn't being fed, he wasn't being given his prescribed medications, he was essentially abandoned inside his own home. 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.640 This case also includes a financial component that prosecutors say shows intent. 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:54.640 Timlin's mother, Sherilyn Hawkins, and a family friend, Loretta Harris, were both receiving money through a home health care agency. 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.559 They were submitting hours for care they were not providing. 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:07.920 Investigators used Cell phone data, building access records, and location tracking to show that the caregivers were not with not with Ty Lim when they claimed to be. 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:16.079 Despite receiving thousands of dollars intended for his care, Tim Lim went without food, water, and medication for long stretches of time. 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:20.559 Prosecutors charged three people in connection with Tim Lim's death. 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:30.079 His mother, uh Sherilyn Hawkins, she was charged with third-degree murder, and neglect to care of a dependent person, theft by deception, and conspiracy to commit theft. 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:36.559 His caregiver, Loretta Harris, she was charged with neglect of a care dependent person and a theft-related offense. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:46.880 And his father, Vernon Hatchet, was charged with neglect of a care dependent person, resulting in death, abuse of a care dependent person, and conspiracy to commit involuntary manslaughter. 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:48.720 I don't think any of these are involuntary. 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:51.039 This is all premeditated murder. 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:53.440 Premeditated murder. 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.519 I don't agree with any of these. 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.519 And it's not manslaughter, it's murder. 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.000 You did it, you thought about doing it, you played. 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:05.759 You actively accidentally starved. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.559 You know, yeah. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.640 You don't accidentally starve someone to death. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:09.599 Yeah. 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.440 In October 2025, Sherlon Hawkins pled guilty. 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:16.400 She was sentenced to 25 to 50 years in state prison. 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:21.599 Laura Harris also pleaded guilty to lesser charges and was sentenced to five years' probation. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.000 As of early 2026, Vernon Hatchett has not been arrested. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:32.079 Authorities have issued a warrant and an increased reward for his information leading to his capture to$10,000. 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:36.559 So if any of you guys know anything, turn that mofo in. 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:37.119 Yep. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:38.960 Get you your$10,000. 00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:40.319 Put it behind bars. 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:40.960 Right. 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.160 Tillum didn't starve because no one knew he needed help. 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.000 He starved while people were being paid to care for him. 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.599 This is what starvation looks like when it happens in plain sight. 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:55.359 It's not hidden by sorcery, it's by paperwork. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:59.440 He was an adult, but he was still completely dependent. 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:06.960 And the people who were supposed to protect him, people who had total control over where whether he lived or died, they neglected him. 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.519 And it wasn't a neglect because of ignorance. 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.000 It wasn't burnout or confusion. 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.160 It was prolonged abandonment. 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.119

Documented, measured, and repeated. 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.039 Timothy Ferguson, Michigan. 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.640 This next case is one where the legal system didn't hesitate. 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:28.720 There was no debate on whether starvation could be considered murder. 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:29.759 There never should be. 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.039 There shouldn't. 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.559 Timothy Ferguson was 15 years old. 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:43.759 He had developmental disabilities, and he depended on the adults in his life to meet his basic needs. 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.119 He lived in Michigan with his mother, John to Vanderck. 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:54.559 And by the time Timothy died in July of 2022, prosecutors said he's been slowly starved inside his home. 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:59.359 When Timothy's body was examined, the number that stood out immediately was his weight. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.119 He weighed 69 pounds. 00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:04.880 A 15-year-old boy weighing 69 pounds. 00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:07.920 The medical ruled his death a homicide. 00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:11.519 The cause was malnutrition combined with hypothermia. 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:20.880 Doctors testified that his body showed clear signs of prolonged starvation, not sudden illness, not a temporary loss of appetite, but long-term deprivation. 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.599 Well, how many of them say, oh, they just don't like to eat? 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.519 Nobody's gonna starve themselves to death. 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:25.920 Come on. 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:26.799 Right. 00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:30.160 This case didn't hinge on whether food was available either. 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:35.200 Prosecutors presented evidence that Timothy was intentionally denied access to food. 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:37.920 They described locked refrigerators and cabinets. 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.799 I mean, this deprivation went on over time. 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.039 It wasn't just a few missed meals. 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:50.000 The state argued that Timothy was punished through hunger, that food was controlled and restricted and withheld. 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:54.720 The prosecutors didn't frame this as neglect due to confusion or lack of resources. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.480 They framed it as torture by starvation, as they should have. 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:00.799 All of these cases should have been that. 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.799 Because that's a hundred percent what it is. 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:04.240 It's monstrous. 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.480 The defense tried to argue that Timothy's mother didn't fully grasp the harm she's causing. 00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:12.000 How do you not see your child? 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.480 You're hungry, you're not like, oh me, my kids are hungry. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:16.720 You're locking the refrigerator. 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.319 You knew you were causing harm. 00:26:18.480

--> 00:26:21.759 Like you don't see your child starving there every day. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:22.720 But it didn't. 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.440 She said she they suggested she didn't understand the severity of his condition. 00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:28.480 Are you kidding me? 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.000 She has eyes correct. 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:30.640 Right? 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:40.559 But the jury heard testimony about Timothy's appearance, how visibly emaciated he was, and about how his body had shut down because it had been deprived for so long. 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.000 And the argument that her lawyers were making didn't land. 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:45.359 Oh yeah, they saw right through her. 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.160 They knew she was full of full of shit. 00:26:48.640 --> 00:27:00.960 So, in December of 2023, after a trial that included medical testimony and evidence of prolonged deprivation, a Michigan jury found Shonda Vander guilty of murder and child abuse. 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:02.640 Thank goodness. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:03.359 Right? 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:08.400 But the jury concluded that starvation in this case was intentional and fatal. 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.480 Under Michigan law, the conviction carried a mandatory life sentence. 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.920 Shonda Vander was sentenced to life in prison. 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:20.640 Is that the way it should be for all states and every one of these incidents? 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.839 Certainly not other than the uh uh probation though. 00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:25.119 Well probation. 00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:25.759 Mm-hmm. 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.440 This case forces us to confront something uncomfortable. 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:31.839 You don't need to have a weapon to commit murder. 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.720 Sometimes all it takes is control and time. 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:47.759 And while this case ended with one of the strongest possible legal outcomes, which we think they all should have, this final case shows how starvation can be framed as care for years until a judge finally says no more. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.839 Okay, so the last case is one that really messes with people's assumptions about what care looks like. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:58.480 Because on paper, this mother and an adult daughter were living together. 00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:06.559 Like, just a home setting, you know, the kind of situation that people instinctively just like trust more than an institution. 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.559 Coro was 23 years old. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:18.640 Investigators said she was severely autistic, and her mother Amy, she had been her legal guardian and her sole caretaker. 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:25.039 This case begins officially on January 4th, 2023, with a 911 call made by Amy. 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.079 She told authorities she had found her daughter dead in bed. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.640 Deputies responded to their condo and

found Cora under blankets. 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.400 Now here's where the details start to feel physically hard to hear. 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:41.039 Investigators described Cora as extremely thin with sunken eyes and cheek. 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:49.440 The Wokoshki Medical Examiner's office later reported that Cora, who was about 5 feet 5 inches, weighed only 70 pounds at the time of her death. 00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:55.279 Medical records showed she weighed 135 pounds about seven years earlier. 00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.480 The medical examiner didn't label this an accident. 00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:00.000 Well, why would he? 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:08.000 The death was determined to be a homicide, specifically because, in their view, Cora wasn't given adequate food and water under her mother's care. 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.680 Again, that's a no-brainer. 00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:13.200 Like I just uh man. 00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:27.359 So what makes this one different from the other cases is that it doesn't center around like a chaotic household with multiple adults coming and going, or there's no obvious fraud skiing with like paperwork flying everywhere. 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.400 This one is quieter, it's contained. 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.960 And that's exactly why it's so disturbing. 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:39.039 Because this kind of situation can just vanish from a public view without anyone noticing. 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:44.400 Investigators said Cora had not left her condo since the COVID-19 pandemic. 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.000 That detail matters because it speaks to isolation. 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.599 Not just social isolation, but practical isolation. 00:29:52.160 --> 00:30:10.160 If someone isn't going to appointments, if you know they they aren't in school, they aren't going to any programs, they aren't being seen by any outside professionals, it it means that there are fewer checkpoints and fewer people that could see it and say, hey, something's wrong here. 00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:13.680 And that's a theme we really hit again and again. 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:20.480 Is this starvation happens under like caregiving, it's it's often through isolation. 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.599 That seems to be like the key takeaway from this. 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.079 That's how the control works. 00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:34.079 That's they control access, food, they control access to medication, and they control access to the outside world. 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:36.160 So basically to help. 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.559 Legally, the charge here is also important because it's very specific. 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:48.240 Prosecutors charged Amy with recklessly subjecting an individual at risk to abuse under circumstances causing death. 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:56.720 That's a state way of framing it as not just failure, but an abuse of a responsibility, a breach so severe it caused death. 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:02.960 Amy was charged in 2023 and the case moved toward trial, but it never got there. 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.799 In January 2025, she entered what's called an Alfred plea. 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:07.599 Bullshit. 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.319 Right? 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:13.839 And the reason we mentioned this is because it's one of those legal terms people hear and don't always understand. 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:22.799 An Alfred plea lets the defendant maintain their not admitting guilt, but acknowledge that the state likely has enough evidence to convict a trial. 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.599 It avoids trial but results in a conviction. 00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:29.279 And the plea hearing had a clear reality underneath it. 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:38.960 Prosecutors were preparing to lay out a case that core's starvation and dehydration were foreseeable and preventable, and the person responsible did not intervene. 00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.039 Then comes the sentencing. 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.440 This is where the court's language tells you how seriously the judge viewed what happened. 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:53.759 On March 20th, 2025, Amy was sentenced to 20 years in prison, followed by 15 years of extended supervision. 00:31:54.319 --> 00:32:03.519 Reporting noted that it was more time than the state requested, and the judge rejected the defense's request of probation. 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:05.200 Obviously. 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.720 At least this judge was paying, you know, freaking mine for the victims here. 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:17.680 During the sentencing, the judge compared the autopsy photos of Cora to images from World War II concentration camps. 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:20.640 That's not a comparison judges make lightly. 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:28.079 It's a signal that the court saw the condition of the victim as really extreme and unmistakable. 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:33.119 You also hear like this courtroom tug-of-war that happens a lot in caregiver cases. 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:39.039 Family members are speaking up, the defense is trying to frame it as the caregivers are just like overwhelmed. 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:43.440 The prosecutors are pushing back, saying, Oh, their vulnerability makes it worse. 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:44.880 Yes, of course it does. 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:45.599 Right? 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:52.880 Prosecutor Christy Gordon described the case as extremely aggravated because Cora has special needs. 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.480 And the defense argument here is one you've heard variations of in a lot of cases. 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.319 The suggestion that the victim could have eaten on their own, could have gotten food, could have had done more. 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:09.680 In this case, the defense attorney argued that Cora could have gotten up and gotten food on her own. 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.000 But the court didn't accept that framing. 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.839 And the reason is backed into what

prosecutors and the medical examiner were saying. 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.000 Cora was an individual at risk. 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:19.279 She was a dependent. 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:26.799 And when someone is legally responsible for that level of care, you don't get to step back and say, well, technically, she might have been able to do it. 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:31.839 Not when the outcome is 70 pounds, not when the medical examiner is calling it a homicide. 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.319 Not when evidence shows prolonged deprivation. 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.559 Yeah, like clearly she couldn't just do it. 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:37.519 Right. 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.480 This case is such a brutal cast stone for the episode because it hits the heart of your main question. 00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.039 When does neglect become murder? 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:48.000 Sometimes the difference isn't a dramatic moment. 00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:59.119 It's a slow acclimation of missed chances, missed appointments, missed interventions, missed days where someone should have said, This is not okay. 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:02.720 And then one day a 911 call comes too late. 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:07.839 And when a judge looks through the photographs and says, essentially, this is what starvation looks like. 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.559 It forces everyone listening to omit something. 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:12.400 Starvation is five months. 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:13.679 It just takes longer. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.599 And I don't even think there's a question of when does neglect become murder. 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:19.679 It becomes murder when someone dies. 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:20.800 It really does. 00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:22.880 It should not be manslaughter. 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.719 I hate when they say manslaughter. 00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:25.679 Murder. 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:29.599 It's not reckless endangerment of a child resulting in death. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:31.119 No, it's murder. 00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:32.880 Murder. 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:34.400 Yes. 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:39.039 So when we talk about Cora, we're not just talking about one caregiver and one victim. 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:46.559 We're talking about how easily it can be for extreme neglect to hide behind the label of caregiving, especially when disability and isolation are involved. 00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:53.199 And how the legal system is apparently finally increasingly willing to say no, this crossed the line. 00:34:53.440 --> 00:35:03.440 When you line this up with the other cases, the control, the isolation, the excuses, the systems that didn't catch it, you start to see the same pattern from different angles. 00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.840 Which brings us to a bigger question. 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:10.000 What is happening psychologically in the people who do this? 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:14.639 Like, why do so many warning signs get ignored? 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.199 Psychological profiling. 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:28.719 Before we move any further, we need to pause and think about what's exactly happening in these cases. 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:32.159 Not legally, not procedurally, but psychologically. 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.880 Because if you look only at the facts, it's easy to ask the wrong question. 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.400 People tend to ask, why didn't you just feed them? 00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:42.880 Well, I think that's kind of the right question. 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:47.199 But that question assumes this is about forgetting ignorance or being overwhelmed. 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:48.960 Yeah, not that these people are monstrous. 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:49.679 Yeah. 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.960 What the psychology tells us is something different entirely. 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:57.360 Starvation in caregiver situations is rarely about not knowing what to do. 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.480 It's about control, isolation, and rationalization. 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:03.679 And those three things show up in every case we've talked about. 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:05.519 To put it in perspective, Dr. 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:14.880 Maria Cheng, a clinical psychiatrist who studies chronic neglect, says neglect cases often involve deliberate avoidance of medical professionals. 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.119 That's not ignorance, it's strategy. 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:22.480 When caregivers isolate victims, they're creating an environment where the abuse can go unchecked. 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.360 One of the most important things to understand is that starvation doesn't look like violence in the way people expect it to look. 00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.239 There's no single moment where everything changes. 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.480 There's no obvious breaking point. 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:42.960 Psychologists and child development researchers describe neglect, especially chronic neglect, as persistent absence of responsive care. 00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:44.320 That phrase matters. 00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.440 Persistent absence over time. 00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:52.320 In the Wisconsin case, that looked like years without medical care or school. 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:58.960 In the Florida case, it looked like feeding supplies just sitting around untouched while the child wasted away. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:10.400 In the the Pueky case, that looked like a young woman just isolated in her condo for years, slowly losing half of her body weight. 00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:12.719 This is slow harm. 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.599 And slow harm, it's a lot easier to normalize. 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:22.880 Another pattern that shows up again and again is coercive control, which is a concept most people associate with domestic violence. 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.400 But it applies here too. 00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:32.800 Coercive control is about limiting someone's access to basic needs and to other people

while convincing yourself and others you're doing it for their own good. 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:35.679 Think about how often we heard that language. 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:37.840 They don't like doctors. 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.840 Talking about weight upsets them. 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.280 They're difficult to feed. 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:43.920 They don't understand hunger the way we do. 00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:45.599 Those aren't explanations. 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:46.960 They're rationalizations. 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.559 And rationalization is one of the strongest psychological tools people use to avoid confronting harm. 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.599 In the Powaki case, the mother said she didn't want to upset her daughter by addressing weight. 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.880 In the Tennessee case, the defense tried to argue emotions were clouding judgment, not facts. 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:07.920 In the Michigan case, the defendant suggested the caregiver didn't understand the harm. 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:10.320 Yep. 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.119 Psychologically, these explanations serve one purpose. 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:18.239 They allow the caregiver to maintain control without seeing themselves as an abuser. 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.800 Isolation is what allows these starvation cases to continue. 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:34.159 Abuse research continuously shows that isolating a victim from friends, professionals, schools, doctors, or social services dramatically increases risks of severe harm. 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.960 Because the isolation controls the narrative. 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:41.840 When there's no one else to see the body, the decline can be explained away. 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:47.920 When no one checks in, there's no external reality to push back against the caregiver's story. 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:51.039 Look at how isolation played out in these cases. 00:38:51.199 --> 00:39:00.400 There was no school, no routine doctors' visits, no consistent home health oversight, there were missed appointments, cancelled services. 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:06.079 The isolation doesn't just have to mean locking someone in a room, although in some of these cases it did. 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:11.519 It just means making sure no one else has enough information to help and intervene. 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:18.239 Disability is one of the strongest risk factors for starvation-related neglect, and that's not speculation. 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:24.079 It's documented across child welfare, elderly abuse, and forensic psychology research. 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:37.519 People with disabilities are more likely to be dependent on caregivers for food and hydration, isolated from peers and professionals, disbelieved when something feels wrong, and framed as difficult rather than harmed. 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:46.000 When a caregiver begins to resent the responsibility or feel entitled to control, that resentment can quietly turn to deprivation. 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:51.679 And that's why prosecutors often say disability makes the case more aggravated, not less. 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:55.199 Vulnerability increases responsibility. 00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:02.559 One of the most common misconceptions in cases like this is just extreme caregiver burnout. 00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:10.800 And while caregiver stress is real, research makes it clear that there's a distinction between stress and chronic neglect. 00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:12.800 Burnout leads to mistakes. 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:14.480 Chronic neglect is a pattern. 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:22.960 Chronic neglect shows up as repeated failure to meet basic needs, escalating isolation, missed opportunities to get help. 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:28.320 I mean, just rationalizations that become way more elaborate over time. 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.159 In the Tillematchic case, caregivers weren't just overwhelmed. 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:34.800 They were collecting money while leaving him alone. 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:38.880 In the Michigan case, food access was actively restricted. 00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:43.519 In the Florida case, formula was stockpiled, not used. 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.440 These are not burnout behaviors, they're control behaviors. 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.800 And another uncomfortable truth is the systems are not built to catch slow harm. 00:40:53.039 --> 00:41:01.199 Child protective services, medical systems, even law enforcement are often looking for acute injury, not gradual deterioration. 00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:10.239 Research on chronic neglect shows that repeated low-level red flags are often treated as separate incidents instead of a single escalating pattern. 00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:17.920 So when people ask how did no one stop this, the answer is usually people noticed pieces, but no one put the pieces together. 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.760 When the neglect becomes crime, why the system misses it? 00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:30.639 Let's shift gears and talk about the law. 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:38.400 Because behind every tragic case of starvation, there's a legal system trying to define, prevent, and punish these acts. 00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:43.760 And when we talk about neglect, control, and isolation, we're not just describing disturbing behavior. 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:47.199 We're describing actions that have real legal consequences. 00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:58.719 In the United States, laws exist at both the state and federal levels to protect vulnerable people, like children, adults with disabilities, elders, like to protect them from neglect and abuse. 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:06.719 These laws set out what caregivers must do, what counts as neglect, and how authorities should respond if someone crosses the line. 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:14.480 At the most basic level, every state has statues requiring caregivers to provide food, shelter, medical care, and safety. 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.360 Failing

to meet these duties isn't just morally wrong. 00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:18.320 It's a crime. 00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.639 But the law doesn't stop at simple neglect. 00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:30.800 When the neglect becomes chronic, deliberate, or leads to serious harm, prosecutors can escalate charges from neglect to criminal neglect to manslaughter or even murder. 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:33.599 And we all know where we stand on that one. 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.320 For sure. 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.679 So why does it matter how the law classifies starvation? 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:41.039 Rather, it's neglect, manslaughter, or murder. 00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:49.920 Well, because each step up the legal ladder reflects how seriously society takes these crimes and how much responsibility we place on the caregivers. 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:51.360 Think about it. 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:59.199 Neglect isn't just forgetting to pack a lunch, it's a pattern of failing to meet somebody's basic needs sometimes over months or years. 00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:00.639 The law starts here. 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.559 Treating neglect as a crime because it puts the vulnerable at risk. 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:16.719 But when neglect becomes chronic, when a caregiver repeatedly ignores medical advice, isolates the victim, or controls their access to food and water, the law recognizes this isn't just a mistake. 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.239 It's criminal neglect. 00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.239 Prosecutors, they look for patterns. 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:21.920 Did the caregiver know the risks? 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:22.880 Of course they did. 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:27.119 Did they have opportunities to get help and just choose not to? 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:27.920 Mm-hmm. 00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:33.760 If that neglect leads to death, the stakes get even higher. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:41.039 The law asks, was this a tragic accident or did the caregivers' actions show reckless disregard for life? 00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:43.119 That's where manslaughter comes in. 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.480 Punishing the people who should have known better and didn't act. 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:49.440 There is no tragic accident in starving somebody to death. 00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:51.679 At least not in the cases that we have seen. 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:52.960 They were all willful. 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.280 Yeah, I don't see how you could possibly accidentally starve someone to death. 00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:57.840 No. 00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:02.000 If there's evidence that The caregiver intended harm. 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.440 I mean, obviously they intended harm, but right. 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:07.760 Allegedly attended harm. 00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:08.719 Right. 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:12.400 Uh maybe for financial gain or out of desire for control. 00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:14.559 Well, the law calls that murder. 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.920 Because it's murder. 00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:18.639 And that's the harshest harshest charge. 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:22.639 I mean, it's reserved for cases where the starvation is used as a weapon. 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:24.320 It's not just a failure. 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:30.400 This escalation matters because it shapes how cases are investigated, prosecuted, and sentenced. 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:31.679 It sends a message. 00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.599 Society won't tolerate caregivers who turn neglect into cruelty. 00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:43.280 The law isn't just about punishment, it's about protecting the vulnerable, demanding accountability, and making sure those tragedies aren't ignored. 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.960 So when we talk about these cases, we're not just telling stories. 00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:51.360 We're showing how the legal system tries to draw the line between neglect and murder. 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:53.840 And while that line matters for justice. 00:44:54.159 --> 00:45:00.800 In most states, the law doesn't require a caregiver to intend to kill someone in order for them to be charged with homicide. 00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:07.840 What is required is a legal duty of care and a failure so extreme that death becomes a foreseeable outcome. 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:11.119 The concept everything hinges on is duty of care. 00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:22.320 If you are legally responsible for someone, a child, a disabled adult, an elderly parent, the law says you must provide the basic necessities food, water, medical care, and supervision. 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:25.360 And when those things aren't provided, it's neglect. 00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:33.280 But when the deprivation is prolonged, deliberate, or reckless, many states allow prosecutors to escalate the charge. 00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:35.519 It's so crazy we even have to have these laws. 00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:37.760 It's just basic morality. 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:38.639 Right? 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:49.519 Some states explicitly defy felony deprivation or criminal neglect when a caregiver knowingly withholds necessities over time or ignores obvious risks to serious harm. 00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:55.440 Minnesota statute is a clear example, but similar language exists across the country. 00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:01.440 I mean, that's the doorway prosecutors use to move from neglect to manslaughter and sometimes murder. 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:07.519 Prosecutors don't wake up and randomly decide to file homicide charges in neglect cases. 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.960 Although they kind of should in the starvation case. 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.559 They look for patterns. 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.360 They ask, was this person completely dependent? 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.960 Was food or medical care available but with held? 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.000 Did the caregivers isolate the victim from oversight? 00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:24.719 Did the caregiver ignore repeated warning signs? 00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:26.079 Was the

harm predictable? 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.440 Intentional, intentional, intentional, intentional. 00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.119 That's homicide. 00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:38.639 If the answer to those questions is yes, then neglect starts to look a lot less like failure and more like reckless disregard for life. 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:40.159 Or homicide. 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.480 I I just don't understand why the law seems so like. 00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:48.719 Right. 00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.079 Neglect's not yes, neglect is failure. 00:46:52.239 --> 00:47:01.280 But it's not like this is not like we keep saying, like, it's not like they didn't pack a meal, they didn't feed people for days and weeks and months. 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:13.760 One of the biggest shifts that's happening right now in the legal system is the recognition that starvation is not passive, like we've been talking about. 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:19.599 Legally, withholding food is considered an act not just of mere omission. 00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:26.639 Like when the caregiver is able to provide it but chooses not to, that's that's intentional abuse. 00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:31.840 Courts are increasively rejecting the idea that you have to strike someone to kill them. 00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:38.639 This matters because it reframes starvation as something done to someone, not just something that happened. 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:45.760 This framing shows up again and again in sentencing language, especially when the judge talks about like foreseeability. 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:51.679 If someone loses half their body weight over months or years, a death is not a surprise. 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:59.199 In every single one of these cases, no one can argue that the death wasn't foreseeable, given how little everyone weighed. 00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:01.679 They were literally emaciated. 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:02.639 Yes. 00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:10.800 I mean, a seven-year-old weighing less than a newborn, how do you not know that's go not going to lead to death? 00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:15.599 Like there is there is no way that they didn't know what they were doing. 00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.280 So now here's where the systematic failure comes in. 00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:24.480 Because if the law is capable of addressing it, why does it often intervene so late? 00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:30.079 The biggest reason is that the systems are designed to catch acute harm, not slow harm. 00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:37.199 Child protective services and adult protective services often respond to individual reports, not long-term patterns. 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:46.079 Chronic neglect is notoriously hard to quantify, and reports tend to be treated as isolated incidents rather than part of an escalating trajectory. 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:52.719 So a missed appointment here, a low weight there, a concerning home visit doesn't quite cross a threshold. 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:55.920 All of it gets logged, but not necessarily connected. 00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.559 Another major failure is like fragmentation. 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.960 In many of these cases, different systems have like little pieces of the puzzle. 00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:16.159 You know, schools notice absences, doctors notice weight loss, home health agencies tracked hours, child services agents make visits, but those systems don't always like communicate effectively with each other. 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:24.880 Like in Kedrasmatics cases, multiple people raised concerns, but no one had authority or urgency to pull everything together in time. 00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:28.639 We also can't ignore the role of resource constraints. 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:33.280 CPS and APS agencies are often understaffed and overwhelmed. 00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:36.639 That leads to what researchers call threshold culture. 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:40.719 Cases are only escalated when they become undeniably catastrophic. 00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:45.840 By the time starvation is obvious enough to meet that threshold, the damage is already done. 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:54.400 Research consistently shows that chronic neglect cases are among the hardest for agencies to manage because they don't present as emergencies until the very end. 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:23.599 So their disability can be used, whether it's intentional or not, as an explanation that like dulls the urgency. 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:39.840 That's why the judge in Wisconsin explicitly said that the disability made these cases more aggravated, not less. 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:51.039 The reason you're seeing more homicide charges in starvation cases now is that courts are catching up to what psychologists are catching up to what psychologists have been saying for years. 00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:52.880 Chronic neglect kills. 00:50:53.119 --> 00:51:01.519 There's a growing recognition that caregiver perpetrated homicides are not a rare abnormality, but they're predictable outcomes of certain patterns. 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:04.559 Isolation, control, prolonged deprivation. 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:09.840 That shift is slow, uneven, and often reactive, but it's happening. 00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:18.079 The legal system can hold people accountable, but it often does so only after the worst possible outcome. 00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:25.280 What these cases show over and over and over again is that starvation isn't invisible. 00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:34.079 It's just easy to ignore when systems are, you know, when they're overworked and they're trained to look for bruises instead of patterns. 00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:38.320 And until that changes, the law's gonna keep arriving too late. 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:43.360 So when we ask when does starvation become murder, the real answer is uncomfortable. 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.960 Legally, it's when the system finally decides to see it. 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:56.639 So wrapping up, we've walked through six cases

in this episode. 00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:00.239 Different states, different families, different victims. 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:04.800 But when you line them up side by side, the similarities are impossible to ignore. 00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:08.880 These weren't like chaotic moments of violence. 00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:12.159 There was no single like explosion. 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:14.719 There was no collapse one day. 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:22.000 What happened in every single one of these cases was slow, incremental, predictable. 00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:25.599 And that's what makes it so hard for people to process. 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:30.320 Because we're taught to think of murder as something active, loud, immediate. 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.320 But starvation doesn't work that way. 00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.320 Starvation works quietly. 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:44.320 It happens one missed meal at a time, one cancelled appointment, one decision not to intervene, one excuse layered on top of others until the outcome feels inevitable. 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:49.360 Like it just happened, but it didn't just happen. 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:53.599 Yeah, like we always want to give caregivers the benefit of the doubt, too. 00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:58.159 And that's all and in most cases they do deserve it. 00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:00.320 And as we said, burnout's real. 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.199 But that that that didn't is an excuse for anyone to starve anyone. 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:06.559 Obviously chronic. 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:11.039 What these cases show is that neglect doesn't become deadly all at once. 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:14.239 It becomes deadly when control replaces care. 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:18.480 These were different stories, but they share the same pattern. 00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:22.559 And that pattern is three repeating pieces. 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.239 Isolation, rationalization, and silence. 00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.679 Isolation keeps the outsiders from seeing what's happening. 00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:37.039 Rationalization gives caregivers permission to do nothing in silence by families, systems, and institutions. 00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:38.079 Let it continue. 00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:41.440 And by the time the law steps in, it's often too late. 00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:46.639 That's why the legal question, when does neglect become murder, matters so much? 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:54.639 Legally, the answer is when deprivation is prolonged, when harm is foreseeable, and when someone with the duty of care chooses not to act. 00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:57.679 But normally, the line is crossed much earlier. 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:05.360 It's crossed the moment someone realizes a dependent person is deteriorating and decides to explain it away instead of stopping it. 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:10.320 And this is where the system failures really come into focus. 00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:15.280 In almost every case we talked about, there were

moments where intervention was possible. 00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:20.159 A missed doctor's visit that could have been flagged, a weight that should have triggered an alarm. 00:54:20.320 --> 00:54:23.119 A home visit that didn't really connect all the dots. 00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:28.960 A report that was treated as, you know, just an isolated incident as set apart of a pattern. 00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:31.760 The system isn't built to catch slow harm. 00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:33.599 It's built to respond to emergencies. 00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:38.800 And starvation doesn't look like an emergency until the body can't compensate anymore. 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:41.440 Which leaves us with an uncomfortable truth. 00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:44.079 These deaths weren't unpredictable. 00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:46.880 To which again we say, no duh. 00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:48.960 They were unaddressed. 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.760 And that's why the courts are starting to call them what they are. 00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:57.280 Not accidents, not misunderstandings, not caregiver burnout, but crimes. 00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:02.559 There's a tendency, especially when disability is involved, to like soften the language. 00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:08.239 To say it was complicated or it was overwhelming or they didn't mean for this to happen. 00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:11.760 But the law is increasingly saying that this isn't the point. 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:13.440 Responsibility is. 00:55:13.840 --> 00:55:22.400 When someone can't feed themselves, they can't advocate for themselves, they can't escape their environment, responsibility doesn't fade just because it's hard. 00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.000 It becomes heavier. 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.119 So when we ask, when does starvation become murder? 00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.320 the answer isn't found in one moment or one statute. 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:31.760 It's found in patterns. 00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:38.159 Patterns of control, patterns of isolations, patterns of choosing in action when action is required. 00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:42.719 That's when neglect stops being passive, and that's when it becomes lethal. 00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:48.559 And if there's one thing we hope that you listeners take away from this episode, is that this. 00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:50.719 Starvation is violence. 00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:52.639 It just wears a quieter mask. 00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.079 So what do you do? 00:55:54.239 --> 00:56:03.440 If you're a neighbor, a friend, a teacher, a family member, a medical professional, someone on the outside, trust that feeling when something doesn't sit right. 00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:06.559 Starvation rarely happens without warning signs. 00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:09.519 Those signs just don't always look traumatic. 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:18.880 And if you're struggling as a caregiver and you feel yourself pulling away, isolating or rationalizing, help is not a failure. 00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:19.920 Silence is. 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:24.960 There are resources available to help you, and don't hesitate to use them, please. 00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:28.239 These stories are hard to hear, but they matter. 00:56:28.400 --> 00:56:31.519 Because the line between neglect and murder isn't theoretical. 00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.519 It's lived, and too often it's crossed quietly. 00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:38.559 Thank you for joining us today on Seriously Sus. 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:40.960 This was a tough episode to get through. 00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:44.320 And if it made you uncomfortable, that's not a bad thing. 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:46.960 Discomfort is often where awareness starts. 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:52.800 And awareness saves lives, so stay aware, stay skeptical, and stay sus. 00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:04.320 You've just tuned in to Seriously Sus with Miranda and Annette, your ultimate source of sus with side-eye. 00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:06.239 Thanks for hanging out with us today. 00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:15.519 If this episode made you think, hit that like button, subscribe, or follow Seriously Sus for more deep dives into crime trends, drama, and cultural chaos. 00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:19.440 And remember, stay informed, stay engaged, and stay sus.