485: Why vs. Should: Whose Goal Is This, Anyway?의 전체 녹취록

halves again and various road races, and then I just started cranking up the miles. 00:04:09.096 --> 00:04:13.193 But I didn't feel like I've done halves, now I should do a full. 00:04:13.331 --> 00:04:15.370 I've done fulls, now I should go do an ultra. 00:04:15.758 --> 00:04:21.033 I really had intrigue of how good could I be at something if I went longer. 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:21.064 Yeah. 00:04:21.064 --> 00:04:27.653 And I think that's the, the difference is you can keep increasing your distance- if you think that it's interesting 00:04:29.062 --> 00:04:29.089 But 00:04:29.365 --> 00:04:32.314 you could also stay the same distance if you think that's interesting. 00:04:32.314 --> 00:04:34.175 It's j- it's really a matter of fun. 00:04:34.557 --> 00:04:34.930 Yeah. 00:04:35.108 --> 00:04:48.088 I agree, and I think that's really what we want to talk about in this episode because I think that there are a lot of people that lose that sense of fun and that lose that sense of curiosity, and they just move from one goal to the next because they think that's what should come next. 00:04:48.139 --> 00:04:49.607 after a 5K, I run a 10K. 00:04:49.607 --> 00:04:53.574 After a 10K, I run a, a half-marathon, and they just have to keep moving up in distance. 00:04:53.983 --> 00:05:06.502 But that's why we wanna talk about the difference between why and should, because just because you could do something doesn't mean you should, and that's one of the things I want you to take away from this episode. 00:05:06.502 --> 00:05:09.430 So let's talk about the why versus the should. 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:14.274 So to me, when we talk about a why, what is your why? 00:05:14.286 --> 00:05:18.788 It is a reason that a goal matters to you in your own words. 00:05:18.788 --> 00:05:24.737 It's about what that goal gives you, not just a time on the clock or a distance on your watch. 00:05:25.050 --> 00:05:35.238 Versus should, which is a goal that you took on because it seems like the next, the expected next step or because of what others might think. 00:05:35.244 --> 00:05:39.139 So that goal, the reason for that goal, lives outside of you. 00:05:39.139 --> 00:05:48.961 It's not because you want it, it's because you just feel"Okay, this is, this sh- is the next logical step," or,"This is what other people expect of me," or, something like that. 00:05:49.682 --> 00:05:52.182 So I've got a personal one to this, and then I'm gonna flip it back on you. 00:05:52.853 --> 00:06:08.812 This is part of why I stopped chasing the clock in marathons and part of why I moved away from marathons, because there was a number on the clock that very much had a should that was entirely external that was connected to a random comment that my college coach made. 00:06:09.062 --> 00:06:09.266 Yeah. 00:06:09.267 --> 00:06:13.901 And that was a number that I kept chasing that really didn't mean anything to me. 00:06:14.220 --> 00:06:23.062 it somehow, that number was going to validate my running experience in my coach's head, and he has no idea. 00:06:23.452 --> 00:06:27.553 I haven't talked to him in a long time, so it's irrelevant how fast I run a marathon. 00:06:27.846 --> 00:06:31.240 but that, that number, I kept doing it marathon after marathon. 00:06:31.382 --> 00:06:34.305 Sometimes I got closer, sometimes I got less close. 00:06:35.242 --> 00:06:37.305 Sometimes it was a good experience, sometimes it was negative. 00:06:37.490 --> 00:06:44.286 Sometimes missing the clock was so negative, and sometimes it was just a bad race, but there was always this number in the back. 00:06:44.478 --> 00:06:51.064 And the last time I ran a marathon, I really was able to separate from that number, and I don't know, that was the last marathon I ran. 00:06:51.276 --> 00:06:57.401 I think that I could run a marathon without carrying that pressure now, which would be really interesting to see if I could actually do it. 00:06:57.802 --> 00:06:58.148 Yeah. 00:06:58.312 --> 00:07:04.391 But part of me is as soon as I start trying to train for a marathon again, that number would pop back up. 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:05.108 So- 00:07:05.115 --> 00:07:05.401 You think so? 00:07:06.055 --> 00:07:06.524 I don't know. 00:07:06.576 --> 00:07:08.853 I enjoy what I'm doing now for the most part. 00:07:08.908 --> 00:07:24.699 Yeah, so that was part, so it sounds like that you're saying that was part of the reason why you gave up marathons and moved into ultramarathons was because you realized that you were shoulding, like that there was a should when it came to your marathon goals that you didn't want driving you 00:07:25.699 --> 00:07:38.201 Yeah, the last marathon, I don't know, somewhere in the middle of it where that number slipped away and I knew I was not gonna get it anymore, and the next mile was super slow because I was all sad. 00:07:38.444 --> 00:07:51.081 And when you're emotionally sad, it's hard to keep physically pushing yourself, so like my pace really dropped on that one, and that's when I just, I- I started laughing in the middle of the race because it was like the time doesn't matter. 00:07:51.232 --> 00:07:59.747 that was my first marathon back post-seizure, and it was like it's irrelevant how, what the number on the clock says when I come across the line. 00:07:59.750 --> 00:07:59.774 Yeah. 00:07:59.774 --> 00:08:02.706 It's irrelevant what place I'm in when I come across the line. 00:08:02.923 --> 00:08:06.906 It's amazing that I'm back out here running a marathon. 00:08:06.913 --> 00:08:06.925 Yeah. 00:08:07.187 --> 00:08:10.242 And not like jogging through, but like pushing myself. 00:08:10.432 --> 00:08:11.548 The time doesn't really matter. 00:08:11.559 --> 00:08:15.029 My ability to go out and push for that long- is the win. 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:15.836 Yeah. 00:08:15.836 --> 00:08:23.310 And when I finally got to that and that's the win, I lost a lot of motivation to keep trying to push for marathons. 00:08:23.485 -->

00:08:26.250 that was part of my thing of I don't need to do this anymore. 00:08:26.423 --> 00:08:26.560 Yeah. 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:28.209 I'm gonna s- go see what else I could do. 00:08:28.642 --> 00:08:33.750 And I think if I had let go of that time earlier, I may have found other distances earlier. 00:08:33.750 --> 00:08:35.000 I may have just found more fun. 00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:42.346 I don't know if I would've gone longer, shorter, but I was so locked to that number that I felt like I had to keep trying at a marathon. 00:08:42.621 --> 00:08:47.355 Yeah, and I think that's a, a great example of, what, exactly what we're talking about today. 00:08:47.355 --> 00:08:51.822 So this episode was inspired by the, our one client's question. 00:08:52.270 --> 00:08:58.625 It was also inspired by the book that I'm currently reading, which is Start With Why by Simon Sinek. 00:08:59.008 --> 00:09:09.221 And the big concept in this book is Simon Sinek, has this, what he calls the golden circle, and it has three layers, and he always talks about working from the inside out. 00:09:09.221 --> 00:09:17.714 So the in- the inner circle, so there are three concentric circles, and the inner circle is your why, and that's the purpose, the cause, the belief. 00:09:17.715 --> 00:09:21.418 It's like the underlying, driver of all of your actions. 00:09:21.618 --> 00:09:28.124 And then the next circle out, the next outer circle is the how, and then the next outer circle is the what. 00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:40.215 And so he frames all of this for like leadership and business and organizations, inspiring leaders to s- figure out their why and start from the center and work outward. 00:09:40.216 --> 00:09:50.303 So from the why, then you figure out the how, and then the how kind of helps you figure out what it is you're actually doing to achieve that purpose or that goal that's in the inner circle. 00:09:50.571 --> 00:10:10.293 And like one of the things that he says all the time throughout the book, like I've, I'm listening to the audiobook on my runs, and I've heard him say it, I wanna say at least five times, which is,"People don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it." And y- what you do simply proves what you believe. 00:10:10.373 --> 00:10:12.899 And so he talks, he gives a lot of really great examples. 00:10:12.900 --> 00:10:15.863 he gives an example of Apple versus, Dell computers. 00:10:15.865 --> 00:10:25.191 Like, why did Apple rise to become this worldwide brand that is so desirable versus, Dell, which is just another computer brand, right? 00:10:25.427 --> 00:10:28.495 And it was like, Dell just talked about how they made computers. 00:10:28.736 --> 00:10:31.291 Apple tried to inspire a revolution. 00:10:31.297 --> 00:10:34.553 They tried to inspire you to think differently, right? 00:10:34.553 --> 00:10:38.313 they were the, the rebels of the computer world. 00:10:38.325 --> 00:10:49.316 They were looking for people that wanted to identify differently

than some of the stiff, buttoned-up, it- executive types that were in the PC world. 00:10:49.577 --> 00:11:02.077 And so they were made this whole thing of, having a mission and a why and a cause by, behind what they do, and that has allowed them to ascend to the upper echelons of any business ever, right? 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:11.831 And so w- as I'm listening to this, as I do with a lot of, most of the things that I listen to, I figure out, okay, how does this also apply to running? 00:11:11.841 --> 00:11:17.621 How does this also apply to real life and the things that we're doing here with our clients? 00:11:17.624 --> 00:11:20.181 Because we've talked about our why before. 00:11:20.182 --> 00:11:21.821 We talk about it with our clients all the time. 00:11:21.822 --> 00:11:23.499 We talk about it here on the podcast. 00:11:23.822 --> 00:11:27.469 So how does, the golden circle and the why really apply here? 00:11:28.071 --> 00:11:37.671 So I would say that the what, if we go f- take his golden circle and work from the outside in, the what is often the distance or the time goal. 00:11:37.971 --> 00:11:43.826 The how is the training plan and the process, and then the why is what that goal gives you. 00:11:43.835 --> 00:11:46.224 So maybe it's, getting stronger. 00:11:46.245 --> 00:11:47.761 Maybe it's improving your health. 00:11:47.772 --> 00:12:00.109 there's an underlying reason or purpose or belief or identity even that you want to achieve by doing these things, and I think that a lot of times that's where we start in our running journey. 00:12:00.311 --> 00:12:02.609 We start with the desire to get healthier. 00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:04.807 We d- we start with the desire to challenge ourselves. 00:12:04.807 --> 00:12:09.528 there's a reason that you started running in the first place, but I think along the way, we can lose perspective. 00:12:09.528 --> 00:12:11.370 We get more focused on the what. 00:12:11.370 --> 00:12:16.219 We focus on the time or the distance, and we s- get further away from our why. 00:12:16.221 --> 00:12:26.836 And so that's really what I hope this episode helps you guys to do, is just reconnect with that why and also understand that your why is allowed to change over time as well. 00:12:26.837 --> 00:12:45.250 So the why that you started with at the beginning of your running journey does not necessarily have to be your current why right now, but it just, there needs to be some sort of why that's driving your actions because a why will hold up when your training gets hard, but a should usually doesn't, right? 00:12:45.251 --> 00:12:46.774 I should do this thing. 00:12:46.777 --> 00:12:50.129 It's much harder for that to inspire you on the harder days. 00:12:50.937 --> 00:12:58.894 Yeah, and this was, like, you had worked this episode before I kinda had my run over the last couple of days. 00:12:59.131 --> 00:13:01.335 I went out for my long run, was it yesterday? 00:13:01.884 --> 00:13:04.697 And I finished it, and you

were like,"How'd it go?" I was like,"It's, it was good. 00:13:05.030 --> 00:13:07.836 I did not wanna do that." I just, I really didn't. 00:13:08.033 --> 00:13:18.030 And it wasn't like, like I didn't have to get up super early because it was pouring in the morning, and I'll run in the dark, and I will, if I have to, run in the rain. 00:13:18.205 --> 00:13:20.686 But in the dark and the rain- Yeah it seemed like a bad combo. 00:13:20.946 --> 00:13:23.956 and there was a window that I could do it later in the day, and so I went for it. 00:13:24.163 --> 00:13:27.645 I didn't want to, and I'm not even sure what got me out there. 00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:31.437 Somewhere there's gotta be a deep why of, it's connected to identity. 00:13:31.438 --> 00:13:32.933 it's just- it's what I do. 00:13:32.937 --> 00:13:32.948 Yeah. 00:13:33.214 --> 00:13:39.458 I haven't done a r- I didn't get a long run in last weekend because of other circumstances, that there wasn't really a window for me to work with. 00:13:40.538 --> 00:13:44.027 But- I haven't done one, and I needed to go out and get a long run. 00:13:44.027 --> 00:13:47.162 And even though I didn't want to, I still did it. 00:13:47.351 --> 00:13:52.015 I still got in the miles because that's just what I do. 00:13:52.469 --> 00:13:58.171 And I don't have a race on the schedule, so it's not I need to get this in because that's going to then get to the what. 00:13:58.408 --> 00:14:00.166 it's just what I do. 00:14:00.166 --> 00:14:04.792 And sometimes motivation wanes with a lot of people if they don't have a race on the schedule. 00:14:05.019 --> 00:14:11.302 They're like, what's the point of all of this?" And it's like, your why should probably avoid specifically having a number on a clock. 00:14:11.541 --> 00:14:16.650 that's not a, it's not bad to have a number in mind, but that can't be, like, the be-all, end-all. 00:14:16.941 --> 00:14:17.335 that's not a- 00:14:17.335 --> 00:14:18.062 There's gotta be something else 00:14:18.115 --> 00:14:19.293 that's not a good why. 00:14:19.311 --> 00:14:21.298 it's a good what, but it's not a good why. 00:14:21.308 --> 00:14:24.720 if, so say, a, a specific number on a clock, right? 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.168 you wanna run a sub two-hour half marathon, or you wanna Boston qualify. 00:14:29.168 --> 00:14:31.219 You wanna run a, a Boston qualifying time. 00:14:31.514 --> 00:14:38.965 You might think that's your why, but the why is actually the feeling that you want when you achieve that thing. 00:14:38.975 --> 00:14:43.309 it's who you become in the process, of it and the feeling that you... 00:14:43.802 --> 00:14:46.484 what does that time stand for? 00:14:46.537 --> 00:14:48.822 what is the why behind that time? 00:14:48.825 --> 00:14:50.658 The time itself cannot be the why. 00:14:51.034 --> 00:15:01.586 And I think that this is interesting'cause you also, so there was this past weekend that you mentioned this to me, and then last week also when we were talking

about the podcast, last week was a crazy week. 00:15:01.601 --> 00:15:03.230 these are just all crazy weeks right now. 00:15:03.230 --> 00:15:05.408 we are in some craziness. 00:15:05.428 --> 00:15:07.715 It just been- The month of October is crazy. 00:15:07.721 --> 00:15:10.741 The month of November is crazy, and then we go into holidays. 00:15:10.792 --> 00:15:12.091 it's just the end of the year, right? 00:15:12.091 --> 00:15:23.567 once we get into cross country season, pretty much as soon as we hit S- September, even August, but September, we've got birthdays and all this- And it's school stuff cross country and school and all the things. 00:15:23.568 --> 00:15:31.904 But anyway, you were talking about this last week as well, and I was like,"Okay, I'm gonna do a different podcast this week, but I already have this, this podcast outlined. 00:15:31.904 --> 00:15:43.238 We're gonna do that one next week,"'cause you're like, you asked me, because I haven't had a race in quite a long time, on the calendar, and you asked me how I stay motivated when I don't have a race on the calendar. 00:15:43.238 --> 00:15:43.907 what do you do? 00:15:43.916 --> 00:15:46.399 and so I was like,"Oh, funny that you should ask that. 00:15:46.408 --> 00:15:48.053 That's what we were talking about here," right? 00:15:48.403 --> 00:15:57.528 And so I think that- A lot of us fall into this pattern of the next right step ladder or the drift, right? 00:15:57.548 --> 00:16:00.235 Of like, I ran a 5K, so I should run a 10K. 00:16:00.460 --> 00:16:02.674 I ran a 10K, so I should run a half marathon. 00:16:02.875 --> 00:16:08.123 I ran a half marathon, so I should break two hours in the half marathon, or I should run a full marathon. 00:16:08.552 --> 00:16:16.259 And this feels natural because every rung makes the next one look like the obvious step,'cause you're a little bit closer to it, right? 00:16:16.308 --> 00:16:34.899 maybe you never thought about running a, a full marathon before, but if you just ran a half, you're like,"Oh, I'm halfway there,""I could do this." it- each rung on the ladder gives you more belief in your step, in yourself, I think, and it makes that next step look more obvious and also more achievable, right? 00:16:35.160 --> 00:16:46.971 And I think that this is what happens in the running world also, like the culture of running, because we've got race calendars, maybe there's friends, social media are always asking you,"Okay, what's next? 00:16:46.971 --> 00:16:57.201 What are you doing next?" And so this is where a lot of people start to shift that language from I want to do this thing, or I want to see if I can do this thing, to I should. 00:16:57.532 --> 00:17:01.996 And I think that, I know that we've seen this pattern a lot with the, the athletes that we coach. 00:17:01.999 --> 00:17:02.828 Would you agree? 00:17:05.436 --> 00:17:06.068 Would you agree? 00:17:06.621 --> 00:17:07.307 Yes. 00:17:07.492 --> 00:17:08.915 Yeah, we see this regularly.

00:17:09.394 --> 00:17:15.532 I've tried this with some of our clients, and they're very happy with the 5K, 10K rotation. 00:17:15.532 --> 00:17:15.747 Yeah. 00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:16.446 Yeah. 00:17:16.446 --> 00:17:24.657 And I was like,"Have you ever considered, like sometimes my head goes to the latter?" And they're pleased with where they're at. 00:17:24.711 --> 00:17:34.550 They like the distance that they are, and I'm like,"But you could consider something longer." And they're like, no, I'm good where I'm at." And then there's the other people that they just always wanna keep pushing things to the next level. 00:17:34.890 --> 00:17:41.087 And it's, it's fine as long as you, you don't have a should in there. 00:17:41.615 --> 00:17:57.767 I think that the latter is completely fine to climb until you've done a half-marathon and you're like, now I should do a marathon." As soon as, as whatever the next distance jump is or whatever the time jump is starts getting a should in front of it, then you're not doing anything for the right reason. 00:17:57.767 --> 00:17:59.821 Then it just doesn't make any sense why you're doing it. 00:18:00.148 --> 00:18:03.349 And at that point, it's, it's less motivating. 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:18.553 It's a lot easier to back off your runs when it's something that you should do, which is weird,'cause it seems like you're almost, rule-following at that point, but then it's easier to break the rules of something that you, quote-unquote,"should be doing." but, that... 00:18:19.834 --> 00:18:35.653 you've lost motivation at that point in time'cause it's didn't, it stopped being from inside of you and it started just being like, I guess this is what I'm gonna do next." Instead of having the excitement for it, it just f- it was like, the dominoes were going, and now this is the next domino that has to fall. 00:18:35.653 --> 00:18:42.888 it stops being exciting because it stops being interesting and curiosity and more like, like a default of the thing that comes next. 00:18:44.498 --> 00:18:48.179 Yeah, and I think that's where it gets interesting, too, in the literature. 00:18:48.182 --> 00:19:07.582 Like, when we start looking at the literature, when I start looking at, the book that I'm reading here with Simon Sinek, so there has, there's research that shows that the meaningful reasons tied to identity, values, relationships, enjoyment, or a personal goal helped runners prioritize running and keep going. 00:19:07.582 --> 00:19:11.421 'cause you were just talking about motivation, and there's a lot of runners that struggle with motivation. 00:19:11.421 --> 00:19:16.885 I think that this why versus should is a big reason that people do struggle with motivation. 00:19:17.116 --> 00:19:20.297 And I love what Simon Sinek says in his book here, too. 00:19:20.877 --> 00:19:26.088 He says,"Working hard for something that we do not care about is called stress. 00:19:26.537 --> 00:19:54.339 Working hard for something that we love is called passion." And I both agree and disagree with this statement, so I wanted to, talk with you about this as well, because I do think that this is where the problem lies for a lot of people, is that, like, when you are doing something hard, that is something that's hard- And you're not fully invested in it, you don't understand the why behind it, that is much more of a negative stress on your system. 00:19:54.594 --> 00:20:01.096 Now, I also think that working hard for something that you do care about can also be stressful. 00:20:01.316 --> 00:20:10.486 so I don't completely agree that, just because it means something to you and just because you love it doesn't mean it's not stressful, because there's still stress involved. 00:20:10.780 --> 00:20:17.891 so I, he didn't say that there's no stress, of course, but he just put a differentiation between stress and passion. 00:20:18.169 --> 00:20:21.900 and I think that this is where the problem lies for a lot of people. 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:22.536 What do you think? 00:20:23.076 --> 00:20:25.173 I think there's a very subtle distinction there. 00:20:25.375 --> 00:20:25.590 Yeah. 00:20:25.615 --> 00:20:29.221 he's using the word stress in purely negative connotations. 00:20:29.324 --> 00:20:30.501 But it doesn't have to be. 00:20:30.738 --> 00:20:30.771 No. 00:20:30.771 --> 00:20:32.886 Like, how do you improve yourself? 00:20:32.914 --> 00:20:38.498 You put a stress on the body- Yes then you appropriately recover, and now you've improved yourself. 00:20:38.560 --> 00:20:40.064 stress can be beneficial. 00:20:40.483 --> 00:20:44.352 Passion is also not necessarily a purely positive word. 00:20:44.502 --> 00:20:44.701 Yeah. 00:20:44.707 --> 00:20:52.633 So he took two words that both have a light and dark side to them- and put stress as the pure negative and passion as the pure positive. 00:20:52.809 --> 00:20:57.356 the word passion originally came from literally Christ crucified on a cross. 00:20:57.452 --> 00:20:58.884 that was its original intent. 00:20:59.145 --> 00:21:00.200 that, that was it. 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:05.704 That, there's not a whole lot positive on that, until you get a couple days later. 00:21:05.913 --> 00:21:05.950 Yeah. 00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:09.924 But, the actual event itself is very gruesome negative. 00:21:10.080 --> 00:21:11.394 And that's where the word comes from. 00:21:11.397 --> 00:21:13.842 So it's weird because we're like,"Oh, passion, 00:21:14.066 --> 00:21:16.160 love." this is semantics, right? 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:17.616 This is like the semantics of it. 00:21:17.616 --> 00:21:23.662 And I think that, you and I both read that book, The Passion Paradox, which is also a great book, that we would recommend to people. 00:21:23.663 --> 00:21:27.338 and there's always a shadow side, to all of these things, and I think that's the interesting thing. 00:21:27.342 --> 00:21:30.632 But it's ultimately what is driving your goal. 00:21:30.643 --> 00:21:32.371

what is the driving force behind it? 00:21:32.377 --> 00:21:38.267 And this is honestly one of the big reasons why I have not yet run a marathon. 00:21:38.538 --> 00:21:41.675 Because I think that it's a should for me. 00:21:41.686 --> 00:21:48.278 and I've had that thought many times in my life, like over my running journey of I should run a marathon. 00:21:48.332 --> 00:21:49.654 I'm a running coach now. 00:21:49.655 --> 00:21:53.250 I coach people that run marathons and ultramarathons. 00:21:53.252 --> 00:21:54.971 I should do this myself. 00:21:55.248 --> 00:21:57.069 Maybe that would make me a better coach. 00:21:57.077 --> 00:22:03.023 Maybe people out there think that I'm not a good coach because I haven't done this." there's a lot of shoulds on here. 00:22:03.246 --> 00:22:07.273 And it's crazy, because I know that I can coach marathoners and ultramarathoners. 00:22:07.306 --> 00:22:08.877 I've done it so many times. 00:22:08.893 --> 00:22:10.176 I know that I'm good at it. 00:22:10.387 --> 00:22:12.327 But there's still that, lingering little voice. 00:22:12.327 --> 00:22:16.403 But I refuse to do it just because I should. 00:22:16.590 --> 00:22:23.074 Until I feel a desire, like a genuine desire, to run a marathon, I'm not going to do it. 00:22:23.757 --> 00:22:25.777 Yeah, I don't think that you would just pop into... 00:22:25.875 --> 00:22:27.182 I'm not sure that you would enjoy it. 00:22:27.193 --> 00:22:29.342 You would need a marathon to be super, super beautiful. 00:22:29.666 --> 00:22:29.951 Yeah. 00:22:29.986 --> 00:22:32.020 I already cho- I already figured out with the one I want. 00:22:32.022 --> 00:22:34.011 I, if I run a marathon, I wanna run London. 00:22:34.450 --> 00:22:34.834 Yeah, 00:22:34.897 --> 00:22:38.162 but- assuming I can even get in, especially, that just keeps getting harder and harder. 00:22:38.215 --> 00:22:39.448 they stretched it to two days now. 00:22:39.463 --> 00:22:40.490 you got all sorts of times. 00:22:40.926 --> 00:22:51.255 but I, I think if you go back to Cynic's line here, if you change the words,'cause then we get into semantics, I think what he's trying to say here is working hard for something we don't care about is a negative. 00:22:51.529 --> 00:22:54.066 Working hard for something we love is a positive. 00:22:54.201 --> 00:23:02.074 And we can keep working hard at something we love much easier than working hard for something that we are indifferent towards. 00:23:02.136 --> 00:23:02.501 Yeah. 00:23:02.795 --> 00:23:03.184 that makes- 00:23:03.184 --> 00:23:05.853 And let alone negative- And that- let alone something that we hate 00:23:06.210 --> 00:23:21.112 that makes me feel better about what I was thinking about when it comes to parenting, because I feel like parenting is a really hard job, and I'm working really hard to figure out how to parent our teenagers in the best way possible, and I would consider that very stressful. 00:23:21.125 --> 00:23:23.737 But I also love the job, right? 00:23:23.737 --> 00:23:28.865 I'm not, there's no better job in the world than being a mom for me right now. 00:23:29.141 --> 00:23:33.542 And- But that does not mean it's not stressful 00:23:34.094 --> 00:23:34.596 No, there's some- 00:23:34.596 --> 00:23:36.306 But it is a positive, I would say 00:23:36.355 --> 00:23:43.414 if you took away, if you went to, the caring, if you removed the caring, then that would not be stressful. 00:23:43.625 --> 00:23:47.694 Yeah Because then you would suddenly not have to work hard anymore- because you just wouldn't care. 00:23:48.005 --> 00:23:48.528 That's true. 00:23:48.580 --> 00:23:50.114 the caring- I mean- is what makes it hard 00:23:50.343 --> 00:23:51.451 the caring is what makes it hard. 00:23:51.654 --> 00:23:58.954 So when you ha- have to work hard at something and you don't care about it, then it becomes really tricky. 00:23:59.299 --> 00:23:59.545 Yeah. 00:23:59.606 --> 00:24:11.898 that's where the real difficulty lies in, of you're doing something that is very mentally or physically or emotionally challenging that you're required to do, and you just don't care. 00:24:12.096 --> 00:24:12.501 Yeah. 00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:14.057 And, it... 00:24:14.068 --> 00:24:29.061 Sometimes if you sign up for a marathon because your friends all signed up for a marathon and you're all gonna do the thing together- but then one person drops off, and somebody gets injured, and y- your training doesn't work well, so you're not doing it with the other person who's still go- going. 00:24:29.292 --> 00:24:30.839 Now you're training for a marathon solo. 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:31.997 You didn't really wanna do it. 00:24:31.997 --> 00:24:33.949 You just wanted to be with your group of people. 00:24:34.067 --> 00:24:34.249 Yeah. 00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:38.851 And now you're locked into something that is very difficult, and you just don't care. 00:24:39.038 --> 00:24:39.211 Yeah. 00:24:39.211 --> 00:24:40.869 That's, that is brutal. 00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:46.071 That is brutal, and I think that there's a lot of people that maybe find care along the way. 00:24:46.073 --> 00:24:49.066 They find a reason and a why along the way. 00:24:49.069 --> 00:24:51.326 Maybe they didn't start with one, but they find one. 00:24:51.621 --> 00:24:58.721 and that's what I wanna jump into now, is really the psychology behind this,'cause we could sit here and talk about why versus should and what we think. 00:24:58.979 --> 00:25:05.035 but there's also some psychological models that I wanna tell you guys about because there are some... 00:25:05.046 --> 00:25:07.074 there's research about this as well. 00:25:07.311 --> 00:25:17.638 So there's something called the self-determination theory that talks about how motivation sits on a continuum, and on this continuum, so any continuum, we look at a straight line. 00:25:17.961 --> 00:25:29.750 On the one side, we have the contr- what they call controlled motivation, and that is more of the

external types of motivation, so because others expect it. 00:25:29.765 --> 00:25:39.907 Or what's called introjected, motivation, which is because I'd feel guilty or ashamed if I didn't, which is still like that externally motivated type of thing, right? 00:25:39.907 --> 00:25:46.805 Because if you feel guilty or ashamed, it's because of likely what other people are thinking about you, right? 00:25:46.805 --> 00:25:49.989 It's because of what you think that means about you. 00:25:50.608 --> 00:25:52.233 Versus the other side of- Yeah, 00:25:52.233 --> 00:25:57.104 but at least it's slightly into your head, so it's a little- Yeah bit better than I'm only doing it because others think I should. 00:25:57.241 --> 00:26:00.942 And then on the other side of the continuum, that is the autonomous side. 00:26:00.951 --> 00:26:03.893 And so there's three types of autonomous motivation. 00:26:04.161 --> 00:26:08.771 One is called identified, which is because I believe it is good for me. 00:26:08.807 --> 00:26:10.490 That's one of the reasons that we do things. 00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:11.545 I believe it's good for me. 00:26:11.938 --> 00:26:16.788 If it's integrated, because it fits my life goals would be something on that. 00:26:17.061 --> 00:26:20.010 And then intrinsic motivation is because I enjoy it. 00:26:20.380 --> 00:26:26.007 Okay, so that's because I believe it's good for me, because it fits my life goals, and because I enjoy it. 00:26:26.253 --> 00:26:29.665 Now, should lives on the controlled side, right? 00:26:29.675 --> 00:26:44.938 A lot of what sounds like I should do this is really guilt or shame or pressure or proving worth rather than choosing something, of"I should do this." I like to say that should is could covered in shame. 00:26:44.963 --> 00:26:48.185 And I don't know if I came up with that or if I heard that somewhere. 00:26:48.186 --> 00:26:50.752 Most likely I heard that somewhere, but I can't remember where. 00:26:50.898 --> 00:26:52.185 Yeah, definitely took that from Brene Brown. 00:26:52.659 --> 00:26:55.288 def- Brene talks about shame a lot, right? 00:26:55.288 --> 00:26:56.713 And so sh- but like- No, but I specifically 00:26:56.713 --> 00:26:57.358 remember her- 00:26:57.361 --> 00:26:57.570 Oh 00:26:57.570 --> 00:26:58.931 saying it, 00:26:58.931 --> 00:26:58.980 could cover shame. 00:26:58.980 --> 00:26:59.290 Okay. 00:26:59.307 --> 00:26:59.826 there you go. 00:26:59.902 --> 00:27:04.277 so that's a Brene, that's a Brene quote or a Brene concept for sure, according to Kevin. 00:27:04.277 --> 00:27:04.585 But we might be 00:27:04.586 --> 00:27:05.596 related, so it's... 00:27:05.628 --> 00:27:05.938 Yeah. 00:27:06.075 --> 00:27:06.496 that's true. 00:27:06.505 --> 00:27:07.417 She could be our cousin. 00:27:07.865 --> 00:27:13.539 So should is guilt, pressure, and proving worth rather than choosing, right? 00:27:13.541 --> 00:27:26.720 Whereas your why, if you can come up with a why of"I want to do it because it's good

for me, because it fits my life goals, because I enjoy it," that is more on the autonomous side of the spectrum or the continuum. 00:27:27.209 --> 00:27:33.324 So if you think about, a little kid eating vegetables At first, they have no desire to eat vegetables. 00:27:33.335 --> 00:27:33.346 Yeah. 00:27:33.405 --> 00:27:35.561 our kids when they were, like, babies, they were fine with vegetables. 00:27:35.561 --> 00:27:37.417 You put whatever food in front of them, they were pretty good. 00:27:37.594 --> 00:27:37.737 Yeah. 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:46.381 but eventually you get to, that kid who doesn't wanna eat green beans, and they'll do it because their parents are like,"You need to eat green beans." And so they'll force a green bean down. 00:27:46.942 --> 00:27:57.143 And then instead of their parents having to tell them every time,"You need to eat these four green beans or we're not getting up from the table," they'll look at the pile of green beans and they'll be like,"All right. 00:27:57.143 --> 00:28:02.898 I need to do that because otherwise my parents won't be happy about it." So they've taken it one step further. 00:28:03.150 --> 00:28:08.796 they don't directly have to be told,"Do this thing," but they're almost there. 00:28:08.886 --> 00:28:11.375 So they've moved from external to interjected. 00:28:11.564 --> 00:28:21.875 "I'd feel bad if I didn't do it,'cause I know they want me to in the first place." That person doesn't have to tell me, but I know they want me to and so that's why I'm gonna do it." And then as you get a little bit older, you can move to,"All right. 00:28:21.875 --> 00:28:25.307 I'm gonna eat the vegetables'cause I know vegetables are in fact good for me." They... 00:28:25.550 --> 00:28:28.262 as that kid's toy told us, it's got the phytonutrients. 00:28:28.733 --> 00:28:30.442 Then maybe you get a little bit further. 00:28:30.442 --> 00:28:48.223 You take a health class and you're like,"Okay, actually one of my goals for existing is to be a healthy person, and not just are vegetables good for me, but it actually links to my bigger goal of being a healthy individual." So it's not just good for me, but I directly linked it to a bigger concept. 00:28:48.701 --> 00:29:07.557 And then, and this is the best part, is now that you know that vegetables are part of a bigger sp- a, a bigger area for your life, you're like,"Okay, vegetables good, and eating vegetables fits into my framework of I'd like to be a healthy person," now you can pick and choose which vegs- vegetables you want. 00:29:07.607 --> 00:29:10.446 And then you can eat them just because you actually enjoy those vegetables. 00:29:10.549 --> 00:29:12.252 But you can't start there. 00:29:12.252 --> 00:29:19.876 It's difficult to start there because some vegetables don't taste good, and if you just purely went off of taste, little kids would only just eat candy. 00:29:20.161 --> 00:29:28.590 So they kinda have to start with that external, but it can move its way all the way through until you're at,"I'm eating this because I enjoy it." 00:29:28.691 --> 00:29:35.265 Yeah, I'm actually going to go out and order Brussels sprouts at a restaurant because that's actually what I want to eat. 00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:35.923 Yeah. 00:29:36.334 --> 00:29:36.751 Yeah, they... 00:29:36.990 --> 00:29:39.148 That does not start from the youngest of ages. 00:29:39.181 --> 00:29:39.443 Yeah. 00:29:39.493 --> 00:29:39.584 it's, 00:29:39.624 --> 00:29:40.130 it's not where you begin. 00:29:40.130 --> 00:29:43.618 It helps when they caramelize them and cover them in a li- in a delicious sauce as well. 00:29:43.852 --> 00:29:44.855 that's also true. 00:29:44.993 --> 00:29:45.204 Yeah. 00:29:45.204 --> 00:29:49.173 but- that, but that proves what I'm about s- to say with Simon Sinek. 00:29:49.178 --> 00:29:54.902 So going back to his book, he talks about there are two ways to influence human behavior. 00:29:55.145 --> 00:29:59.954 Number one, you can manipulate it, which is what most of us do, or number two, you can inspire it. 00:30:00.209 --> 00:30:02.587 So manipulation is what most of us do. 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:02.851 It's... 00:30:02.884 --> 00:30:12.068 I know that the word manipulation has a lot of negative connotation to it, but most of us are manipulating both ourselves and other people, to do what we want. 00:30:12.365 --> 00:30:14.473 Versus inspiration, that's harder. 00:30:14.484 --> 00:30:23.146 So manipulation tends to lead to term gains, and inspiration tends to lead to long-term gains, benefits, causes. 00:30:23.417 --> 00:30:31.154 So things like getting healthier or, being strong, not g- being able to be strong and pick up my grandkids when I'm 80 years old. 00:30:31.314 --> 00:30:38.903 those types of things are very, inspired reasons to do things versus, manipulating, I'm going to work out today so that I can... 00:30:38.938 --> 00:30:40.992 and then I'm gonna reward myself later, right? 00:30:40.992 --> 00:30:45.307 The reward system that a lot of people use at the beginning of their exercise journey. 00:30:45.320 --> 00:30:47.915 Or s- even, n- m- maybe even not at the beginning. 00:30:47.933 --> 00:30:57.044 maybe you're well into your exercise journey and you can manipulate yourself to exercise by providing some sort of reward, like a carrot at the end, afterwards. 00:30:57.326 --> 00:31:03.625 sometimes there are days that you've got inspiration that is driving you f- over the long term. 00:31:03.630 --> 00:31:03.641 Yeah. 00:31:03.885 --> 00:31:05.608 But some days are just rough. 00:31:05.848 --> 00:31:06.048 Yeah. 00:31:06.048 --> 00:31:08.155 And you have to manipulate yourself on that day. 00:31:08.328 --> 00:31:08.531 Yeah. 00:31:08.531 --> 00:31:09.801 Sometimes it's Monday. 00:31:09.898 --> 00:31:10.106 It's both. 00:31:10.106 --> 00:31:11.288 And you're like,"You know what? 00:31:12.296 --> 00:31:18.259 I don't wanna do it today." And you can just bag it and be like,"I'm not doing-" Yeah a

workout today," or you can manipulate. 00:31:18.452 --> 00:31:21.243 You can do something to trick yourself into doing the thing. 00:31:21.544 --> 00:31:28.833 And, it's not the worst thing to occasionally have to use self-manipulation to lead to some short-term gains. 00:31:28.848 --> 00:31:33.554 As long as you hopefully have an inspiration that gets you towards that longer thing. 00:31:33.773 --> 00:31:34.123 Yeah. 00:31:34.123 --> 00:31:35.499 You said the inspiration of picking up the grandkids. 00:31:35.685 --> 00:31:36.181 It, that... 00:31:36.318 --> 00:31:38.119 It's gonna be those Christmas commercials soon. 00:31:38.288 --> 00:31:44.535 You know that Christmas commercial of the grandpa going out to the garage, picking up the, the paint bucket and painting- Oh, I love that one over and over? 00:31:44.648 --> 00:31:45.299 Yes. 00:31:45.327 --> 00:31:45.673 I know. 00:31:45.675 --> 00:31:49.827 So that when the grandkids come over, he can pick up his granddaughter and she can put the star on top of the tree. 00:31:50.002 --> 00:31:50.644 Ah. 00:31:50.717 --> 00:31:53.858 I've definitely never cried to that commercial. 00:31:53.901 --> 00:31:54.836 I love that commercial. 00:31:54.836 --> 00:31:57.788 But it's, that's, such a good example of this, right? 00:31:57.838 --> 00:31:59.251 yeah, and I think that we do. 00:31:59.257 --> 00:32:00.556 we use both, right? 00:32:00.557 --> 00:32:03.252 We use manipulation and inspiration. 00:32:03.523 --> 00:32:15.551 The goal of this episode is to make sure you have inspiration as well, that you're not only using manipulation, you're not only looking at these short-term gains and should-ing yourself into things. 00:32:15.551 --> 00:32:21.351 Because if that's you are probably someone that has struggled with motivation in your running journey. 00:32:21.351 --> 00:32:25.884 You probably have struggled with inconsistency, because you're lacking that deeper why. 00:32:26.155 --> 00:32:28.548 So there's a couple studies that I wanna talk about. 00:32:29.089 --> 00:32:40.204 Here too, to prove this point, so there was a systematic review in 2012 that found consistent support for a link between more autonomous motivation and exercise. 00:32:40.429 --> 00:32:49.321 So identified regulation, which is identified as because I believe it's good for me, that tended to predict someone getting started. 00:32:49.325 --> 00:32:52.163 Okay, I believe this thing is good for me, I'm gonna start doing this thing. 00:32:52.462 --> 00:33:00.311 While intrinsic motivation, which is because I enjoy it, that is, was more predictive of long-term adher- adherence. 00:33:00.565 --> 00:33:02.912 So you can should yourself to start. 00:33:02.931 --> 00:33:04.634 I think that this is good for me, right? 00:33:04.634 --> 00:33:06.906 I should do this versus... 00:33:06.957 --> 00:33:11.109 And then at some point along the way, there has to be some level of enjoyment, right? 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:15.028 maybe you enjoy the actual process of going out and running. 00:33:15.028 --> 00:33:16.855 You enjoy the feeling of a run. 00:33:17.061 --> 00:33:19.203 Maybe you enjoy how you feel after a run. 00:33:19.217 --> 00:33:22.970 Maybe you enjoy what it allows you to do in your life. 00:33:22.990 --> 00:33:24.913 there's, maybe you enjoy the running community. 00:33:24.914 --> 00:33:31.723 But there has to be some level of in- intrinsic motivation of enjoyment for you to stick to it long term 00:33:32.407 --> 00:33:33.113 Yeah, 100%. 00:33:33.164 --> 00:33:40.839 you've gotta get past that should is right on the border- between the, the controlled and autonomous. 00:33:40.916 --> 00:33:48.930 there's some should with,"I'd feel guilty if I didn't." There's a little bit of should of,"I believe it's good for me." it's a gray between those two things. 00:33:48.930 --> 00:33:48.986 Yeah. 00:33:48.986 --> 00:33:57.807 It slides one into the next, and the further you can get to the autonomous side of- it fits my life goals and then even more because I actually enjoy it, the much more consistent you're gonna be long-term. 00:33:58.030 --> 00:33:59.087 Yeah, exactly. 00:33:59.410 --> 00:34:01.807 There was another study, this was an older study. 00:34:01.849 --> 00:34:13.929 There's actually a couple studies here that basically say that goals that fit your interests and your values lead to more sustained effort, and then reaching those goals pays off more in well-being. 00:34:14.155 --> 00:34:35.858 So if you have a goal that aligns with your interests and your values, you're gonna be more likely to put in the effort to achieve that goal, and then achieving that goal is going to make you feel better about yourself and make you feel even more positive than if you would've achieved that goal that didn't mean as much or that didn't, if you had a goal that wasn't as connected to your values. 00:34:36.235 --> 00:34:37.353 Yeah, this is training theory. 00:34:37.362 --> 00:34:37.373 Yeah. 00:34:37.376 --> 00:34:41.809 This is like consistency leads to a better chance of achieving your goal. 00:34:42.074 --> 00:34:46.291 But it, running, endurance training requires effort. 00:34:46.402 --> 00:34:46.585 Yeah. 00:34:46.585 --> 00:34:50.996 And it's hard to be consistently putting out effort if you just don't care. 00:34:51.161 --> 00:34:51.336 Yeah. 00:34:51.344 --> 00:34:55.601 So the more autonomous motivation you have, the greater the effort is. 00:34:55.842 --> 00:34:59.992 Greater effort consistent over a long period of time is- way more likely to achieve your goal. 00:35:00.210 --> 00:35:22.416 And then there was another study of recreational exercisers in 2019 that showed that autonomous motivation was associated with fewer lapses in your exercise routine, and then introjected regulation, again, the introjected is because I'd feel guilty or ashamed if I didn't, that made guilt and anxiety after a lapse more likely, right? 00:35:22.427 --> 00:35:29.327 if you're, if you feel like you're

guilty, for missing a session, basically you're gonna feel guilty after a session is essentially what that's saying. 00:35:29.327 --> 00:35:33.295 if the reason you do it is to avoid the guilt- Yeah then missing a session will automatically lead to guilt. 00:35:33.393 --> 00:35:34.329 Yes, exactly. 00:35:34.340 --> 00:35:35.068 Thank you for- If 00:35:35.085 --> 00:35:39.380 you're, if you're just trying to avoid guilt, as soon as you miss it, the guilt's gonna show up. 00:35:39.422 --> 00:35:40.237 The guilt is immediate. 00:35:40.266 --> 00:35:46.565 If you're doing it because you enjoy it- missing a session is gonna be like,"Ah, that's a bummer that I didn't get to do it." Yeah. 00:35:46.565 --> 00:35:50.617 you're almost gonna be sad that you didn't get to do it, because it didn't get you to your happy place. 00:35:50.670 --> 00:35:53.697 But you're not gonna be, you're not gonna feel guilty that you didn't do it. 00:35:53.697 --> 00:35:55.737 You're just gonna be like- Yeah bummed out a little bit. 00:35:55.851 --> 00:35:57.148 And then you get back into it the next day. 00:35:57.257 --> 00:35:57.905 Exactly. 00:35:58.311 --> 00:36:06.054 So all of this is not here to tell you that outside goals or outside rewards are bad or that they're the enemy. 00:36:06.056 --> 00:36:13.318 if you want to Boston qualify or you wanna a- achieve that race medal or complete that race, that can be a spark. 00:36:13.327 --> 00:36:15.744 That can be part of your motivation. 00:36:15.755 --> 00:36:21.507 The question is just- whether or not that goal has become yours, or whether or not you want to make that goal yours. 00:36:21.509 --> 00:36:26.855 Because when you do actually internalize that goal, when you find the why, right? 00:36:26.876 --> 00:36:40.083 'Cause if we go back to the, the concentric circle of the what, the how, and the why, what you want to achieve is on the outside, then you figure out how you're going to achieve that, and then you connect it to the reason that goal is important to you. 00:36:40.300 --> 00:36:44.257 It's gonna make the whole process so much more effective. 00:36:44.514 --> 00:36:49.518 It's gonna make the whole much pr- the whole process so much more rewarding when you actually do achieve that thing. 00:36:49.974 --> 00:36:55.710 Yeah, I actually really like your metaphor that you've got here of having a tank of gas, full tank of gas versus pushing a car. 00:36:56.097 --> 00:36:57.878 You can push a car for a while. 00:36:58.300 --> 00:37:06.420 that's like having some outside motivation come in, but you're not gonna try to travel a cross-country road trip by pushing the car. 00:37:06.552 --> 00:37:06.733 Yeah. 00:37:06.755 --> 00:37:10.739 Eventually, you're gonna wanna rely on gas in the actual tank. 00:37:10.836 --> 00:37:12.539 I bet somebody probably has done that. 00:37:12.550 --> 00:37:17.416 that sounds like a Guinness World Record of the longest distance that anyone has pushed a car. 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:18.331 that's... 00:37:18.355 --> 00:37:20.519 There's no way it's across the U.S. 00:37:20.527 --> 00:37:20.552 Yeah. 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:22.641 The Rockies in the middle are gonna wreck you. 00:37:22.710 --> 00:37:24.507 Yeah, I don't think that'd be possible. 00:37:24.664 --> 00:37:25.728 I'm gonna look that up, though. 00:37:26.106 --> 00:37:32.414 All right, so here are some questions to ask yourself to figure out if it's a why or if it's a should. 00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:32.963 All right? 00:37:32.969 --> 00:37:43.297 So if no one ever saw the result, if there were no medal, and you weren't allowed to post about it on social media or Strava or anything, would you still want it? 00:37:44.518 --> 00:37:45.222 Yeah, that's a good one. 00:37:45.543 --> 00:37:59.963 I like that you put the, the Strava thing,'cause there's so many people that say,"Strava or it didn't count." and some people, like, how much when you say,"Strava or it didn't count," is a joke- Yeah and how much are, how much do you truly believe that? 00:37:59.998 --> 00:38:02.402 Cause there's some people that say it and it's super funny. 00:38:02.614 --> 00:38:12.449 I forget which professional athlete it was that was like,"Strava or it didn't count, so I started my watch when I walked down the aisle at my wedding,'cause I wanted to make sure it counted." Like- 00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:18.617 Yeah, I saw somebody else, I forget who it was, they put their watch on their ankle under their wedding dress. 00:38:18.695 --> 00:38:19.065 Yeah. 00:38:19.583 --> 00:38:24.288 but that's funny because- that's, that buys into the Strava or it didn't count, and this wedding is gonna count. 00:38:24.487 --> 00:38:24.690 Yeah. 00:38:24.690 --> 00:38:31.288 But, i- is it actually ingrained in your head that you have to have that so that you can then post it out and you can get kudos on it? 00:38:31.471 --> 00:38:31.706 Yeah. 00:38:31.715 --> 00:38:34.664 What would you do if no one knew that you were doing it? 00:38:34.728 --> 00:38:37.322 there's a Japanese term for this. 00:38:37.322 --> 00:38:40.376 I forget what it is, but there's a lot of people that are like,"Oh, I did this amazing thing. 00:38:40.378 --> 00:38:51.929 I didn't tell anybody I was training for it, and I just, I went out and I did it, and it wasn't a, it wasn't an actual race, so I don't even have a result." And then they post all over social media about it- Yeah and get everybody to like them. 00:38:52.123 --> 00:38:53.824 that, that defeats the point. 00:38:53.846 --> 00:38:54.032 Yeah. 00:38:54.032 --> 00:38:57.838 What would you do if you just did it for yourself? 00:38:57.893 --> 00:39:00.702 can you finish this sentence: I want this because... 00:39:01.375 --> 00:39:04.617 I want this because, without the word should. 00:39:05.802 --> 00:39:07.005 Okay, that's another test. 00:39:07.322 --> 00:39:12.742 When I picture the finish line, do I feel pulled toward it or relieved it will be over? 00:39:13.438 --> 00:39:14.063 That's

a good one. 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.628 Whose voice is in my head? 00:39:16.730 --> 00:39:18.784 Is it mine or someone else's? 00:39:19.282 --> 00:39:20.797 That's a really powerful one. 00:39:21.842 --> 00:39:23.802 I think sometimes you're gonna get both voices. 00:39:24.592 --> 00:39:24.603 Yes. 00:39:24.652 --> 00:39:28.541 I think it's a matter of how often it's someone else's voice there. 00:39:28.746 --> 00:39:34.420 The same way as you, you can have some external motivation, it just can't always be external. 00:39:34.538 --> 00:39:39.619 Every once in a while, it's okay to have somebody's voice inside your head, but if it's always, that's... 00:39:39.829 --> 00:39:43.030 You're gonna, you're gonna get tired of that, that other person's voice real quick. 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:45.539 Yeah, exactly. 00:39:45.956 --> 00:39:46.452 all right. 00:39:46.722 --> 00:39:54.411 so th- those are some possible questions of, helping you understand if this is a why or a should. 00:39:54.411 --> 00:39:57.672 I think the big one is really just understanding, what is this going to give me? 00:39:57.690 --> 00:40:00.791 Like, why is this goal important to me? 00:40:01.028 --> 00:40:10.407 And if it's just to get recognition, there's probably something deeper than that, or that, I would invite you to think about it a little bit more. 00:40:11.085 --> 00:40:15.614 okay, so what do we wanna do now w- that we have this information, right? 00:40:15.614 --> 00:40:16.103 we... 00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:20.443 Maybe you've been listening to this episode and you're like,"Okay, yeah, this, this kinda sounds familiar. 00:40:21.141 --> 00:40:24.757 What should I actually do about it?" The first step would be to reconnect to your why. 00:40:24.766 --> 00:40:33.103 go back to your first reason for running and ask yourself, is it still true or has it changed? 00:40:33.416 --> 00:40:39.086 And I think that, again, I mentioned this earlier, but it's totally okay if things change. 00:40:39.356 --> 00:40:42.125 And in fact, I think they should a lot of times, huh? 00:40:42.152 --> 00:40:45.251 Th- I just said,"should." but mine has, for sure. 00:40:45.262 --> 00:40:48.672 Like, when I started running, what was the reason? 00:40:48.820 --> 00:40:49.456 To lose weight. 00:40:49.585 --> 00:40:50.239 that was really the... 00:40:50.253 --> 00:40:53.132 My reason to start running was, like, I wanted to lose weight. 00:40:53.150 --> 00:40:58.001 I wanted to be skinny like runners, was like when I first started running. 00:40:58.327 --> 00:41:13.974 And a big part of it also was, I played a lot of sports in high school, and then I went off to college and I wasn't on, a varsity team anymore, and all of a sudden I was responsible for keeping myself in shape, and running was just the, quote-unquote,"easier thing, easiest thing to do," right? 00:41:13.974 --> 00:41:21.820 you put on some shoes and go out for a run, even though I absolutely hated it, and that's why I never actually stuck

to it when I was in college and just ran here and there. 00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:25.043 But I definitely was not consistent running in college. 00:41:25.885 --> 00:41:31.367 Yeah, but, I mean that reasoning has certainly changed and- Yeah and changed multiple times. 00:41:31.443 --> 00:41:32.811 Oh, it's changed multiple times. 00:41:32.811 --> 00:41:40.844 it, the,'cause then I actually did run consistently when I was in grad school, and the big reason for me then was to be a part of the community. 00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:47.648 Because in PT school, everybody went, we all just went to the gym, after, after PT school everybody was super healthy. 00:41:47.695 --> 00:41:54.534 and I shouldn't say everybody, but most of the class was into exercise and fitness and health, and so that's just what we did. 00:41:54.536 --> 00:42:02.641 And so I would go to connect with everybody, and then obviously to burn off the stress and exercise, move my body, to be stronger. 00:42:02.648 --> 00:42:05.659 Ob- obviously I'm learning about all of these things in PT school. 00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:11.728 I'm learning about the importance of, strength training and running and health, and then I signed up for a triathlon and that was fun. 00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:12.742 I did some 5Ks. 00:42:12.753 --> 00:42:13.467 Those were fun. 00:42:13.768 --> 00:42:16.579 and then it morphed again when I became a mom. 00:42:16.766 --> 00:42:37.396 it, I, there was a period of time where I, we, before motherhood, where it was just for me, and then there was after motherhood, and then it was all of a sudden there was even more of a why to it, which was to be a strong woman and be a good example for my kids, and show them that it's important for us to take care of our health and to exercise. 00:42:38.586 --> 00:42:38.907 Yeah. 00:42:39.224 --> 00:42:40.409 I just did it for the girls. 00:42:40.713 --> 00:42:41.152 Yeah. 00:42:42.425 --> 00:42:42.641 Yeah. 00:42:43.061 --> 00:42:46.152 No, I think that my opening reason was really, 00:42:46.152 --> 00:42:47.530 the- Oh, I thought you meant our girls. 00:42:47.532 --> 00:42:48.887 That's why I didn't make a joke. 00:42:49.103 --> 00:42:49.664 You meant because- 00:42:49.666 --> 00:42:49.773 no. 00:42:49.777 --> 00:42:50.811 my opening reason. 00:42:50.954 --> 00:42:51.141 Yes. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:52.561 I was at an all boys high school. 00:42:52.610 --> 00:43:00.657 It was the only sport that you could do that all of the races, like every Saturday, the races was all of the schools. 00:43:00.657 --> 00:43:00.679 Yeah. 00:43:00.889 --> 00:43:04.271 you played football, you went to a football game, there were other people playing football. 00:43:04.423 --> 00:43:07.454 Not that I was built to play football, but, you could... 00:43:08.128 --> 00:43:10.670 At every Saturday race it was an invitation of all the schools. 00:43:10.672 --> 00:43:11.579 there was everybody there. 00:43:11.862 --> 00:43:16.164 But I really think that my main opening reason really was just to be part of the team. 00:43:16.532 --> 00:43:16.802 Yeah. 00:43:16.847 --> 00:43:21.960 my sister ran cross country at a different school a couple years ahead of me, and I was like,"All right. 00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:28.309 I'm not gonna play football." I played flag football in seve- sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, but I got to high school and I don't wanna play football and have people hit me. 00:43:28.309 --> 00:43:29.170 That seems awful. 00:43:29.447 --> 00:43:32.496 And, my sister does cross country, I could do cross country. 00:43:32.735 --> 00:43:43.528 And then I just got part of the team, and getting better was just such part of the culture- Yeah of that team that I was on, that it wasn't even a thing that I, took upon myself. 00:43:43.628 --> 00:43:47.793 you just went and you ran with the other people, and that just came along for the ride. 00:43:47.797 --> 00:43:49.311 We're all pushing each other. 00:43:49.311 --> 00:43:51.795 We're all trying to get fast and see- see what we can do. 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:59.018 And, eventually that just became part of my running identity, is I push myself and see how fast that I can go. 00:43:59.248 --> 00:43:59.702 Yeah. 00:44:00.028 --> 00:44:06.574 Yeah, and then it morphed again, like you already, mentioned earlier in the episode when you moved into marathons and then ultramarathons. 00:44:06.938 --> 00:44:11.067 And I think that the key to all of this is to make sure that you're choosing it on purpose. 00:44:11.074 --> 00:44:20.311 So a big goal, like a half-marathon, a marathon, a sub two-hour half-marathon, those are all great goals as long as you are the one that's choosing it. 00:44:20.594 --> 00:44:22.577 The distance is not the issue. 00:44:22.588 --> 00:44:24.188 The, the time is not the issue. 00:44:24.188 --> 00:44:26.735 There's nothing inherently bad about any of these things. 00:44:26.744 --> 00:44:33.601 It's just the question of whether or not you are the one choosing it, and do you have a good reason for your choice. 00:44:33.648 --> 00:44:37.103 That's really the biggest thing, is do you have a good reason that you like? 00:44:37.222 --> 00:44:42.327 Do you have a reason that you like that is driving you towards achieving that goal? 00:44:42.864 --> 00:44:45.893 Yeah, and that's why you don't have to keep getting farther and farther distances. 00:44:46.193 --> 00:44:49.409 Because increasing your distances is fine if you have good reason. 00:44:49.643 --> 00:44:53.043 Not increasing your distances is fine- Yeah as long as you have a good reason. 00:44:53.083 --> 00:44:53.596 Totally. 00:44:53.603 --> 00:44:54.199 You just need a good reason. 00:44:54.204 --> 00:44:58.081 That's why, your goal can't just be numerically based. 00:44:58.284 --> 00:45:00.302 break two hours is not a great goal. 00:45:00.313 --> 00:45:03.166 Break two hours because, and then fill in that blank. 00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:07.704 And if you are struggling to fill in that

blank, y- you might wanna reconsider the goal. 00:45:07.952 --> 00:45:09.614 Yeah, that was my goal for a while. 00:45:09.614 --> 00:45:31.701 at, when I first ran my first half-marathon, I saw you, I've told this story on the podcast before, but I saw you run your first half-marathon, and I, the first thought in my head was,"I wonder if I could do that." and then I saw all these other people doing it that were all sh- shapes and sizes and ages, and I was like,"I think I'm gonna do this, just to see if I can," right? 00:45:31.701 --> 00:45:36.780 it was that possibility of"I'm gonna show myself that I can do this," and then I did it. 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:42.726 And then I'm like,"Okay," and then, then there was a, a, a long break because I got pregnant again. 00:45:43.108 --> 00:45:52.260 and then I wanted to go back and racing again, like when I went back to running half-marathons after the babies, I wanted to break two hours. 00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:58.547 I wanted to, first I wanted to break my current, PR, and then I really wanted to break two hours, again, just to see if I could. 00:45:58.547 --> 00:46:06.958 I wanted to see what I was capable of, because in that interim process b- I had dropped my time in my 5K. 00:46:07.112 --> 00:46:11.802 my 5K, I was running my 5K and I think I was running, 27 something. 00:46:12.134 --> 00:46:32.438 And then I decided,"What if I could get faster?" and so I dropped my 5K, and I was like,"Oh, if I can drop in a 5K, can I get faster in the half-marathon?" So there was this sense of curiosity and of challenge and of, wanting to see if I could, and wanting to show myself, wanting to prove that maybe I'm not as slow as I thought, because in my mind I was always a slow runner. 00:46:32.442 --> 00:46:36.389 At first, I never even called myself a runner,'cause I wouldn't, did not think of myself that way. 00:46:36.606 --> 00:46:41.748 And then it was like,"Okay, I'm a runner," and then it was just,"I'm a slow runner." It's like, what if I could be faster, right? 00:46:41.751 --> 00:46:46.525 So there's, of, for me it was a lot of, what if I could, and, let's see if I can. 00:46:46.768 --> 00:46:50.114 and I think that was a really powerful way to motivate me to do the things. 00:46:50.164 --> 00:46:55.192 right now, going back to, the marathon goal, I know I can do a marathon at, if I wanted to. 00:46:55.202 --> 00:46:58.068 I, so that, that curiosity's not there. 00:46:58.271 --> 00:47:09.431 I don't know how fast I could do it, but that, the speed isn't really important to me right now, and I think that's one of the reasons I haven't actually trained for it or chased it, because, in my head, I know that I can do this. 00:47:09.677 --> 00:47:15.985 I could do it if I wanted to, because I would just make sure I got the right training in, I let the right timeline, I got the fuel in. 00:47:15.987 --> 00:47:18.929 I know the process to do it, and I know that I'll be able to do that. 00:47:19.614 --> 00:47:21.474

Yeah, no, you could definitely do a marathon. 00:47:21.887 --> 00:47:22.150 Yeah. 00:47:22.215 --> 00:47:28.032 And I think that, that is hurting your curiosity because- there's not a big question mark to it. 00:47:28.143 --> 00:47:29.804 Correct, and that's why I haven't done it yet. 00:47:29.815 --> 00:47:31.748 Because, I'm sure at some point I will. 00:47:31.802 --> 00:47:32.954 I likely will. 00:47:33.389 --> 00:47:37.793 But I could also see myself just, skipping marathons and going straight into ultramarathons too. 00:47:37.804 --> 00:47:38.784 and we'll see what happens. 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:43.016 right now this is not the season of life for that because there's too many other things going on, but, 00:47:43.230 --> 00:47:46.052 I learned that the farthest you've run is, 16? 00:47:47.143 --> 00:47:47.152 15. 00:47:47.152 --> 00:47:47.697 15? 00:47:47.858 --> 00:47:48.425 Yeah. 00:47:48.425 --> 00:47:50.177 And you're like,"I'm just gonna jump up to 31. 00:47:50.193 --> 00:47:50.414 It's gonna be 00:47:50.414 --> 00:47:51.025 great." Yeah, why not? 00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:52.302 And people do it all the time. 00:47:52.324 --> 00:47:54.710 you ran 100 after you, only ran 50. 00:47:54.936 --> 00:47:56.132 I- no, 100%. 00:47:56.146 --> 00:47:56.994 People do it all the time. 00:47:56.994 --> 00:47:57.199 Yeah. 00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:59.045 It's still just a bonkers statement to make. 00:47:59.068 --> 00:47:59.077 And- 00:47:59.085 --> 00:48:00.606 But it's also because of you. 00:48:00.617 --> 00:48:04.476 because of, peop- a- and not just you, but also the people in- that we coach. 00:48:04.525 --> 00:48:13.101 people arou- I surround myself with people that do really cool stuff, and I think that's a benefit of making sure you're choosing the people that you associate with correctly as well. 00:48:13.103 --> 00:48:14.646 So I see it. 00:48:14.646 --> 00:48:20.849 And then there's sometimes that I think that we're completely delusional in what we believe we can do- Yes as well. 00:48:20.909 --> 00:48:29.329 like, when I see you running 100 miles, I'm like,"Oh yeah, I could totally do that." And then I go out and run five miles and I'm like,"I'm not doing that 20 times. 00:48:29.373 --> 00:48:30.130 No way." No. 00:48:30.130 --> 00:48:30.438 Right? 00:48:30.873 --> 00:48:35.940 even to run 100, and I've done- Yeah this multiple times, it's still delusional every time I do it. 00:48:36.027 --> 00:48:36.262 Yeah. 00:48:36.302 --> 00:48:42.065 Because, I went out the other day and I was, like, struggling to finish, a 7-miler. 00:48:42.260 --> 00:48:45.610 And I'm like,"Eh, pretty sure I'll never run 100 again." Yeah. 00:48:45.610 --> 00:48:46.248 Because I can't. 00:48:46.295 --> 00:48:48.166 there's no possible way that I could do that. 00:48:48.217 --> 00:48:50.554 I barely made it to the end of this 7-miler. 00:48:50.586 --> 00:48:50.820 Yeah. 00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:52.327 and then it j- it just happens. 00:48:52.342 --> 00:48:53.548 it's the

most bonkers thing. 00:48:53.606 --> 00:48:53.947 Yeah. 00:48:54.338 --> 00:48:55.588 So choose it on purpose. 00:48:56.248 --> 00:49:02.126 Also, right now you don't need my permission for anything in your life, but I'm gonna give it to you anyway. 00:49:02.150 --> 00:49:04.751 So you have permission to step off the ladder. 00:49:04.755 --> 00:49:07.347 If you like 10Ks, run 10Ks. 00:49:07.358 --> 00:49:10.688 You don't have to ever run a half marathon, or you don't ever have to run a marathon. 00:49:10.688 --> 00:49:13.340 you can get off the ladder and just run for the joy of it. 00:49:13.346 --> 00:49:16.336 I've been running for the joy of it for a long time now, for years. 00:49:16.338 --> 00:49:17.083 I haven't run... 00:49:17.347 --> 00:49:24.860 I run our local school 5K every year, but other than that I haven't trained for a race, and I just run for the joy of running. 00:49:24.862 --> 00:49:32.563 I run for the consistency, I run for the friendships, I run to move my body, I run because I like how I feel and how I'm strong. 00:49:32.612 --> 00:49:36.873 there's so many benefits that I get from running, and that is good for me right now. 00:49:37.063 --> 00:49:42.806 So I have should-ed myself a lot throughout the years and said,"Oh, I should pick a race. 00:49:42.807 --> 00:49:43.634 I should do this. 00:49:43.635 --> 00:49:48.543 I should do that," and I'm like, I don't really want to, and I'm just gonna continue to honor that until I do. 00:49:48.552 --> 00:49:51.588 and I do have a desire to run some trail races. 00:49:51.588 --> 00:49:56.822 I'm trying to find one that actually fits into our crazy s- schedule and calendar. 00:49:56.822 --> 00:49:59.349 It's just bonkers that's the challenge, is to find a weekend that's open. 00:49:59.349 --> 00:50:00.539 Oh, my goodness. 00:50:00.541 --> 00:50:02.452 it's crazy when you have teenagers. 00:50:02.822 --> 00:50:04.081 okay, the next thing. 00:50:04.094 --> 00:50:07.516 Write a why statement next to your goal, okay? 00:50:07.516 --> 00:50:17.260 So instead of saying,"I want to break two hours in the half-marathon," I say,"I want to break two hours because..." and fill in the blank. 00:50:17.650 --> 00:50:19.614 what will that give you? 00:50:19.628 --> 00:50:21.543 What feeling do you want to attain? 00:50:21.543 --> 00:50:23.396 What will that thing mean? 00:50:23.396 --> 00:50:25.653 What will that goal mean to you? 00:50:25.677 --> 00:50:28.478 I think that's an important way to check with yourself. 00:50:29.074 --> 00:50:33.688 Yeah, that's a good one, and recheck your why as it changes, because it's going to. 00:50:33.864 --> 00:50:34.155 Yeah. 00:50:34.206 --> 00:50:41.427 the reason why you want to do things, your motives for doing things, your current life experiences are gonna change your motivation levels. 00:50:41.427 --> 00:50:43.693 It's gonna change your reasoning behind things. 00:50:43.943 --> 00:50:56.494 Like you even pointed out, having kids changed from,"I wanna do

this to prove to myself how strong I am," to,"I want to show my girls how strong I can be." there's motivations are gonna change as your life changes. 00:50:57.570 --> 00:51:01.461 Make sure that w- before you sign up for your next race, that you have a good reason. 00:51:01.471 --> 00:51:05.563 Going back to the- Yeah not just break two hours, but break two hours because. 00:51:05.742 --> 00:51:07.865 I'm gonna sign up and do this race because. 00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:12.867 there should be some reasoning to it- Yeah especially if it's gonna involve, a lengthy training block. 00:51:13.005 --> 00:51:18.632 If you're like,"Hey, I'm gonna do this community 5K next weekend," you don't necessarily have to have a huge behind that one. 00:51:18.699 --> 00:51:33.699 it's,"I'm gonna do this 5K because it's convenient, my friends are doing it, it's for a good cause." All of these are simple, easy becauses, and most of them are external, and that's fine- Yeah because you're not devoting, three, four months of your life to training for that thing. 00:51:33.711 --> 00:51:33.733 Yeah. 00:51:33.735 --> 00:51:35.264 You're just gonna hop into a fun race. 00:51:35.606 --> 00:51:43.378 But if you're training for something that's like,"I'm gonna put the next nine months dedicated to this race"- you better have a good, solid why behind it. 00:51:43.469 --> 00:51:44.190 Absolutely. 00:51:44.527 --> 00:51:50.947 So from this episode, we want you to ask yourself three questions, and then we have one action step for you, okay? 00:51:50.947 --> 00:51:55.737 So the three questions to ask yourself is, whose goal is this, okay? 00:51:55.969 --> 00:51:57.146 Is this your goal? 00:51:57.603 --> 00:51:59.079 Is this someone else's goal? 00:51:59.114 --> 00:52:02.081 The, is this, your running group's goal, your running friend's goal? 00:52:02.081 --> 00:52:03.260 whose goal is this? 00:52:03.782 --> 00:52:05.951 Number two, what does it give me? 00:52:06.112 --> 00:52:08.686 What feeling will I have when I achieve it? 00:52:08.842 --> 00:52:11.114 What identity does it help me achieve? 00:52:11.117 --> 00:52:13.233 what does achieving that goal give you? 00:52:13.244 --> 00:52:17.061 Or what is, even not just achieving that goal, but the direction, right? 00:52:17.063 --> 00:52:19.327 I think that it gives you a direction, it gives you a purpose. 00:52:19.666 --> 00:52:22.824 and then three, would I still want it if no one knew? 00:52:23.057 --> 00:52:25.307 Okay, so those are the three questions to ask yourself. 00:52:25.708 --> 00:52:36.139 And then after you answer those questions, I want you to pick your current goal, whatever you're currently working towards, and write its why in one sentence, okay? 00:52:36.139 --> 00:52:39.231 So say your goal is to break two hours in a half-marathon. 00:52:39.231 --> 00:52:40.793 We've been using that example a lot. 00:52:41.396 --> 00:52:42.246 Why do you want that? 00:52:42.318 --> 00:52:46.637 Write the why for that goal in one sentence, and make sure it's really clear. 00:52:49.998 --> 00:52:50.706 That's what you got? 00:52:50.800 --> 00:52:51.333 That's what I got. 00:52:51.373 --> 00:52:52.619 What else you got something else? 00:52:53.110 --> 00:52:53.447 no. 00:52:53.456 --> 00:52:59.643 I just wanted to mention,'cause th- there was a very famous running coach who passed away today or yesterday. 00:52:59.887 --> 00:53:01.242 and it reminded me when you... 00:53:01.266 --> 00:53:06.139 a lot of this episode and going back to, like, where you said,"Oh, I should run a marathon. 00:53:06.144 --> 00:53:10.309 Would that make me-" Yeah"a better coach?"'cause the man best known as Gags passed away. 00:53:10.394 --> 00:53:11.503 I think he was 89. 00:53:11.822 --> 00:53:17.947 his- Frank Yagliano was his name, and he'd coached- He started coaching at the high school level. 00:53:17.954 --> 00:53:22.708 He started coaching because the school hired him to be a football coach, but they didn't hire him till spring. 00:53:22.929 --> 00:53:26.025 And so waiting for football season to start, he coached the track team. 00:53:26.329 --> 00:53:32.083 And then somehow, things went askew, and instead of coaching football, he then started coaching cross-country. 00:53:32.293 --> 00:53:33.509 He'd never run. 00:53:33.581 --> 00:53:34.958 He was a football player. 00:53:35.184 --> 00:53:46.641 So he got hired to be a football coach, and then became a high school coach- Yeah and a high school track and cross-country coach, and then moved up to the collegiate level, and became a professional coach, became one of the most respected coaches out there. 00:53:46.706 --> 00:53:49.036 He was not a runner at all. 00:53:49.197 --> 00:53:54.144 And he coached, 15 Olympians, and, I don't know, 150 All-Americans in college. 00:53:54.416 --> 00:53:54.436 Yeah. 00:53:54.436 --> 00:54:02.396 He's got just such a ridiculous record, and it wasn't because he relied on his own experience of a runner. 00:54:02.407 --> 00:54:04.954 It wasn't because he did things that other people said he should do. 00:54:05.172 --> 00:54:14.864 He thought that the best way to coach was to build relationships, and he really got into, why does this person want to do it? 00:54:14.972 --> 00:54:21.699 So he would know, in a difficult workout, how to push one person versus how to push another, because the why mattered to him. 00:54:22.045 --> 00:54:29.273 He took the time to figure out other people's why, and that then helped him, in person, be able to push the appropriate buttons. 00:54:29.539 --> 00:54:30.157 I love it. 00:54:30.701 --> 00:54:36.079 And, we, we were fortunate enough to coach somebody in high school who then went on to be coached by him. 00:54:36.371 --> 00:54:39.940 So I got some, background stories when, when she was getting coached by him. 00:54:39.940 --> 00:54:40.746 But I just... 00:54:41.005 --> 00:54:48.471 it reminded me very much when you said, I haven't done a marathon, I should do that because it would make me a better coach." You're a great coach because you're a great coach. 00:54:48.594 --> 00:54:58.382 You're a great coach because you care, and caring helps people connect to their reasoning, and the more you can connect to your reasoning, the more likely you are to put in the effort to get your goal. 00:54:58.786 --> 00:55:02.050 absolutely, and thanks for saying that, because I agree. 00:55:02.101 --> 00:55:09.398 I think that, you're a good coach because you're a good coach, and if you're a good coach, you can coach most things, because there's skills, right? 00:55:09.398 --> 00:55:29.432 there's obviously, things that you know about the game, and skills that, that need to be developed, but so much of it is caring about the individual, and that's really what the point of this episode is helping you reconnect to what mat- what matters to you, and why it matters to you, because that's what's going to push you through on the hard days, and help you do the hard things that are gonna help you achieve really cool things in your life. 00:55:29.432 --> 00:55:31.101 thank you guys for joining us. 00:55:31.123 --> 00:55:35.302 This has been the Running Reconnected podcast, episode number 485. 00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:37.489 If you liked it, please share it with a friend. 00:55:37.489 --> 00:55:38.708 Help us reach more runners. 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:39.905 That's all I want you to do. 00:55:39.905 --> 00:55:43.394 I want you to just share this with someone that you think could benefit from it. 00:55:43.782 --> 00:55:45.327 Now, get out there and run your life.