BlackRock and Saylor Have Won — Bitcoin & Crypto Investors Are In Complete Denial | Becca Rubenfeld & Tim Kotzman의 전체 녹취록

taller building there when you're holding a basket 49 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:12,420 in an ETF product of preferred equity products that don't have direct Bitcoin. They have indirect 50 00:05:12,420 --> 00:05:20,200 Bitcoin exposure. So I think the more on-ramps we have for Bitcoin, the better. And yeah, it's really 51 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:26,020 just the beginning. It's been, I'm sure we'll get into it, wild to be here with, you know, 52 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:38,780 We call it 100 people and have a really cool, beautiful, intimate setting to get to know people, get to really know people, right? 53 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:43,480 Not for five minutes or even 15 minutes. We get to spend a couple of days with everybody. It's really cool. 54 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:44,440 Yeah, absolutely. 55 00:05:44,440 --> 00:06:14,420 You know, the leaders in this space of the big Bitcoin companies are, by and large, they're a rebellious group compared to TradFi or compared to maybe the environments that they grew up in. So I do think we actually do kind of hang on to a little bit of that, even in the corporate environment. You know, if you think about, I mean, just the existence of some of these, you know, paper Bitcoin products, right, that they took somebody really, you know, 56 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,720 thinking outside of the box and really pushing against the way things are done. If you think about 57 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:34,080 Matt Cole from Strive and the way he talks very openly about how they run their business, I think all of these things are kind of signs of the community of Bitcoin or the culture of Bitcoin just growing up a little bit. 58 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:38,420 I just love the expected 50% CAGR that they talk about. I mean, what's not to love? 59 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,520 What's not to love? 60 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,460 Strive for Bitcoin. 61 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:41,420 There you go. 62 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:41,940 Shout out. 63 00:06:41,940 --> 00:06:44,700 The orange tie is a sign of corporate rebellion. 64 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:45,260 Yes. 65 00:06:45,380 --> 00:06:45,780 Maybe. 66 00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:48,080 Let's start. 67 00:06:48,220 --> 00:06:49,600 Let's get that narrative going now. 68 00:06:50,060 --> 00:06:50,680 Make it cool. 69 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,000 So let's talk about the attacks that we've been under, right? 70 00:06:55,700 --> 00:07:00,640 I think both sides, whether it's the custody, of course, and treasury companies, too, they've 71 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:01,920 been under attacks from the markets. 72 00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:04,980 So let's talk about that, how we've dealt with it the last year. 73 00:07:04,980 --> 00:07:19,020 Becca, you've had a front row seat to the Red Team with your co-founder Rob Hamilton helping to take charge of all that. So give us the inside scoop. What have the last three months been when you've been such close proximity to Bitcoin Red Team? 74 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:30,080 I mean, I would say it's definitely been an onslaught. That's the impression I get. So it was every few weeks. Now it's every few days a new model is coming out. 75 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:39,640 And so all the volunteers who are red teaming, they really have to take the new model, rescan the repos, and they're finding new vulnerabilities every time. 76 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:52,320 So it's changing the dynamic, I think, from kind of putting a good ring of defenses around your product or your project and then continuing to work on your project. 77 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:59,320 and now it's put up your walls and then keep reinforcing your walls again and again and again. 78 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:05,320 And if you don't stop, your project has the risk of becoming vulnerable. 79 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:18,810 So my impression has just been the team has been adjusting to that new reality just as the rest of companies will have to adjust to it I think in the coming months or years 80 00:08:20,010 --> 00:08:21,650 It's been very impressive. 81 00:08:23,050 --> 00:08:33,050 Rob, Calais, and many others have shown very good organizational skills, ability to build their plane while they were flying it, 82 00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:41,230 ability to organize people, to harness their AIs together, to... 83 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:43,970 The ability to exist on energy drinks alone? 84 00:08:44,430 --> 00:08:51,930 Yes, only on Monster. They've taken in no calories other than Monster for three months. It's a feat for sure. 85 00:08:51,930 --> 00:09:01,910 yeah but it's it's just been very very impressive inspiring a little I would say daunting when I 86 00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:08,910 watch from the outside only because I know how much these volunteers are providing to each project 87 00:09:08,910 --> 00:09:15,570 right and so in a world where you really have to be doing that for yourself the community broader 88 00:09:15,570 --> 00:09:44,150 business community, different entities have provided server space, have OpenSats has by and large covered the majority of the token expense. So all of that has been really meaningful to all of Bitcoin. I think, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoiners, Bitcoin industry, including big Bitcoin really could not, you can't over or rather underestimate, you know, what they have done, I think for all of us. 89 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:50,030 regardless of the size of the company. It's been really very interesting to watch. 90 00:09:50,830 --> 00:09:58,330 And the Strive team that you work closely with, they donate to OpenSass to help out Red Team. Have you talked to them about that at all? 91 00:09:58,790 --> 00:10:09,550 I've seen their posts about it, but that's about the extent of it. We've not talked about it on the Hurdle Rate podcast, but it's probably a good topic for next week, so thank you. 92 00:10:09,550 --> 00:10:29,890 Yes. Also, before we dive in, I'm still trying to get used to the phrase big Bitcoin as a serious term.

I'm trying not to laugh hysterically. You've both learned over the last couple of days that I'm a little more loose in real life than I am on the suit and tie extravaganza. 93 00:10:29,890 --> 00:10:45,050 But yeah, it's been a wild ride from observing the space since SAYLOR started the revolution in August of 2020 and then starting to interview a lot of the analysts and executives in the space in early fall 2024. 94 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:59,870 It's interesting to bring it back to reality when you see the chart of like since the beginning of the strategy till now, like what over the years the return on microstrategy and how strategy has been. 95 00:10:59,890 --> 00:11:03,970 But of course, 2025 was a fun year 96 00:11:03,970 --> 00:11:06,230 Paper Bitcoin summer 97 00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:11,390 Yeah, and the conference in September, I mean, we almost like nailed the exact peak 98 00:11:11,390 --> 00:11:13,450 So that was interesting 99 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:18,310 And then of course, from the fall of last year until now 100 00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:21,690 You saw a few companies sell their Bitcoin and leave the space 101 00:11:21,690 --> 00:11:25,870 You saw a lot of brutal capital markets action 102 00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:32,870 whether it's because of convertible debt or whether the market just doesn't care. 103 00:11:33,770 --> 00:11:39,410 And if it's really amplified Bitcoin and the leading treasury companies are very transparent in saying, 104 00:11:39,570 --> 00:11:42,470 like, if it's amplified to the upside, it's going to be amplified to the downside. 105 00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:47,650 So make your own decisions on whether you're holding this long term or it's more of a trade. 106 00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:50,250 Those are interesting things to think about. 107 00:11:50,250 --> 00:12:11,430 And of course, talking to executives and seeing how they're trying to either reinvent or rebuild through this market has been really interesting to the point of, you know, I think in many, especially on social media, in many ways, a lot of the tourists have left. 108 00:12:11,790 --> 00:12:15,970 And it's kind of like the band that's still playing, but you're like, is anybody still here? 109 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:23,010 So, you know, the move from 60 to 80, I think it gave us all a little jolt. It was kind of unexpected. 110 00:12:24,350 --> 00:12:28,650 But I think 2027 is going to be, I'm the ever-optimist, but I think it's going to be pretty wild. 111 00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:29,310 Got to be bullish. 112 00:12:29,650 --> 00:12:34,230 There comes a point as a Bitcoiner where simply buying and holding Bitcoin isn't the whole story anymore. 113 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:36,430 You start thinking about bigger questions. 114 00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:39,310 How do I borrow against my Bitcoin without selling it? 115 00:12:39,890 --> 00:12:41,910 How should I structure my retirement accounts? 116 00:12:42,610 --> 00:12:44,890 Where should I keep my cash while I wait to buy the dip? 117 00:12:44,890 --> 00:12:49,390 And how do I manage all this without compromising the Bitcoin I've spent years accumulating? 118 00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:52,370 That's what OnRamp Finance is built for. 119 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:56,270 It's a free financial account designed specifically for Bitcoiners. 120 00:12:57,050 --> 00:13:03,070 You can set up recurring Bitcoin buys with zero OnRamp fees, access Bitcoin-backed loans and Bitcoin IRAs, 121 00:13:03,170 --> 00:13:07,910 and keep cash on the platform while earning OnRamp-funded rewards that can be converted into Bitcoin. 122 00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:13,190 You also get access to OnRamp's research terminal, which gives you the kind of Bitcoin and market intelligence 123 00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:27,870 OnRamp Finance is a part of the same ecosystem as OnRamp's custody offering. As your needs become more sophisticated, you can upgrade to multi-institution custody without having to start over somewhere else. 124 00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:41,930 OnRamp Finance is the financial infrastructure built around people who intend to own Bitcoin for the long haul. The account is free and only takes a few minutes to open. Go to onrampbitcoin.com to learn more and open your account today. 125 00:13:43,190 --> 00:13:50,850 And when it comes to these treasury companies, they have to custody their Bitcoin. Do you work with any of these treasury companies in helping them do that? 126 00:13:51,310 --> 00:14:09,390 We will be making some announcements in the coming weeks. We actually, AnchorWatch just got our charter as a trust company. So AnchorWatch Trust Company just opened as of 10 days ago or so, which means we're a qualified custodian, which now allows the publicly traded companies to use us. 127 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:19,030 So we had some that were waiting in the wings that were interested to use our custody platform and get the insurance, but they really just couldn't until we had our trust company charter. 128 00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:19,450 Yeah. 129 00:14:19,570 --> 00:14:24,790 And so now they're coming on board. So you'll see, I think, more and more of them start to use us over 2027. 130 00:14:25,070 --> 00:14:34,550 Nice. And SAYLOR got a lot of hate for not showing proof of reserves, right? But Leishman over at River does show proof of reserves for his exchange. 131 00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:37,950 So do you think these treasury companies should be showing proof of reserves? 132 00:14:37,950 --> 00:15:01,870 I think there's multiple ways of doing custody and supporting customers. So I think each business needs to decide what's important to them and transparency or privacy serve different purposes and different end uses. And I think it's fine for each client to decide what level of transparency they want to show ultimately. 133 00:15:01,870 --> 00:15:30,370 In terms of the mechanisms for, I think there's actually three options. So AnchorWatch Trust Company does segregated. So your Bitcoin is

in your vault and you don't need proof of reserves because it's your Bitcoin. It's right there. So every client has their own known vault that they can go look at on on chain anytime you want. And therefore proof of reserves is not necessary. That's how most trust companies or proper fiduciaries are working. 134 00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:37,950 If it's pooled in an omnibus account, then proof of reserves is wise, absolutely. 135 00:15:39,490 --> 00:15:49,670 But there's the question of if it needs to be released to the public or if it just needs to be conducted and maybe released to your clients, right, to those who are using your platform. 136 00:15:49,670 --> 00:16:02,570 So I don't think we need to judge or say there's one real method or one correct method unless you're going for certain use cases, in which case it should be available and all of them are now available 137 00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:17,190 And speaking of attacks, MSCI is dropping the treasury companies from their indices, that includes Strategy and Metaplanet, what does that mean, is this a big deal, should we be worried about it? 138 00:16:17,190 --> 00:16:44,239 When the news came out I think strategy was down on the day I take Michael at his word when he says it not really something that we concerned about but you also hear that from people when they introducing him at conferences that he working with MSCI and with many different parties behind the scenes to really move everything forward 139 00:16:44,239 --> 00:16:54,339 So I think it's, again, I think if everything's good for Bitcoin, everything's good for Bitcoin treasury companies because of the attention-driven nature of the conversation. 140 00:16:55,439 --> 00:17:06,679 And back to proof of reserves for a second, I just kind of think of it as the waves, you know, from, of course, retail investors on social media that, you know, there was a time when that came and went. 141 00:17:06,679 --> 00:17:13,979 And it's just interesting what topics retail investors are advocating for on any given day or week. 142 00:17:14,239 --> 00:17:21,599 So it's interesting to watch. Narratives, it's all narratives, right? Yeah, and price. And liquidity. 143 00:17:22,699 --> 00:17:42,699 And so we're here at Punta Mita and we're talking about AI, Bitcoin and energy. It seems as if there's a lot of, I'd say, soft pivots into the freedom tech talk, you know, just from Bitcoin to AI and this kind of different angle on it all. How do you feel about that transition going from strictly Bitcoin to a wider? 144 00:17:42,699 --> 00:18:04,299 I think it's appropriate for where we are. I think you can't deny that a lot of attention, including from Bitcoin builders, has gone to AI. A lot of startup companies that were very Bitcoin focused are now a hybrid of Bitcoin and AI or had to transition to AI. 145 00:18:04,299 --> 00:18:09,559 I think Bitcoin will march on kind of regardless. 146 00:18:10,259 --> 00:18:19,919 I think here at Mita, I think a couple of the talks from people were very much about kind of the original spirit of Bitcoin. 147 00:18:19,919 --> 00:18:22,999 And honestly, they were a good reminder for me. 148 00:18:23,299 --> 00:18:33,479 They were a good reminder that moving Bitcoin cross-border is very important around the world, in the third world, where there's currency debasement. 149 00:18:33,479 --> 00:18:59,939 So all those things where builders are now using AI to actually solve those problems, I think it's vital. And so I think whether it's event organizers or media, you know, personas, podcasters, I mean, I do think also there may be a little bit of a responsibility to keep those folks in the conversation, 150 00:18:59,939 --> 00:19:11,379 even if the majority of the industry feels like it has moved on because those things, just like self-custody, I think are in fact integral to Bitcoin's purpose. 151 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:24,099 And, you know, I provide a custodial solution, which is not pure self-custody, but I still think pure self-custody needs to be developed, research protected. 152 00:19:24,099 --> 00:19:50,359 I think all people should have kind of an armed multi-sig. Maybe they don't even keep Bitcoin in it, but they have it. It's using the latest technology, and maybe that technology will change over time. And if you're worried about the debt crisis over the next 20 years, you're always keeping up with self-custody. So if necessary, you can move Bitcoin into self-custody. 153 00:19:50,359 --> 00:20:07,259 So I do think there is kind of an important responsibility among those of us who work in the industry to help those small builders and those idealistic builders at least stay on the outskirts. 154 00:20:07,259 --> 00:20:14,539 I mean that in an inclusive way. Stay on the outskirts and benefit from the increasing volume that's coming on to Bikki. 155 00:20:14,539 --> 00:20:29,839 I think it's so interesting when I first sat down with Matt Cole in January of last year, so call it two years ago, he said the three themes of the next couple of years are going to be AI, Bitcoin, and energy. 156 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:43,539 And now we're here at a conference focused on Bitcoin, AI, and energy. So I'm not saying Matt Cole can tell the future, but I think energy has always, of course, been, you know, something that, 157 00:20:43,539 --> 00:20:49,939 individuals that study Bitcoin, or at least aware of, from the infrastructure standpoint. 158 00:20:50,679 --> 00:21:06,659 And in the same way that when someone is kind of, I'm talking to them or I mentioned Bitcoin and they sort of go like this and they are like, well, and I'm like, it's just a tech, it's like decentralized code. 159 00:21:06,659 --> 00:21:13,939 It's just a new, it's a technology. In the same way, I think of AI as, well, it's just technology, right? 160 00:21:14,539 --> 00:21:35,679 Someone's going to say, don't use the calculator, don't use the supercomputer. It's a tool, it's technology, it's, you

know, of course, going very fast and very powerful, but I think, you know, having an energy background myself, it's very, and then, you know, arguably something in finance, 161 00:21:35,679 --> 00:22:00,219 It's interesting to now, when people say, what do you do? Really almost have to say, I'm in tech. Because what is Bitcoin? What is AI? What is a lot of energy when you really think about how advanced all of this is? So I think it's, to Bega's point, a very natural progression and inclusive of what's going on when you actually just need to name a couple of things specifically. 162 00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:34,699 I think I'm just very open-minded, sometimes to a fault, right? It's like we want to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brain falls out. So I'm somewhere on that spectrum. And I think when I had someone explain Bitcoin to me and they say, well, oil is a commodity, natural gas is a commodity, Bitcoin is a commodity, as deemed by the IRS. I was like, oh, okay. So it's not just some wild imaginary thing. So at the time, I just thought, you know, mineral rights, oil and gas rights, it's recorded in the courthouse. 163 00:22:34,699 --> 00:22:44,859 It's part of the bundle of sticks. It's real. And of course, you need to dig a little bit deep on Bitcoin to realize what is underpinning it, so to speak. 164 00:22:45,719 --> 00:22:47,899 And what about you, Becca? I don't know. What unlocked Bitcoin for you? 165 00:22:48,619 --> 00:22:56,759 What unlocked Bitcoin for me was the national debt hitting $3 trillion in 1990 when I was eight. 166 00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:12,379 I'm not kidding. It was on the nightly business report on TV, and I asked my dad how we were going to pay that back because they put a parabola shape graph on the screen, and I understood that we were supposed to pay back our debts. 167 00:23:12,539 --> 00:23:22,119 And I couldn't understand how America, who I knew was the greatest country in the world, I couldn't understand how the whole world functions on this bad math. 168 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:22,559 Yeah. 169 00:23:22,779 --> 00:23:39,979 And my dad didn't have a good answer for me, which was surprising. He was a business professor. And so that always just stayed in my mind. I majored in finance because of it. I was always just very curious to kind of figure out that mismatch of information. 170 00:23:39,979 --> 00:23:45,239 and eventually when I heard about Bitcoin, I was already trading it without understanding it. 171 00:23:45,259 --> 00:23:50,279 When I heard about Bitcoin and started learning about it, kind of similarly, I was just like, 172 00:23:50,399 --> 00:23:58,399 oh, this explains everything. Got it. And I was orange-pilled almost immediately because, 173 00:23:58,499 --> 00:24:02,579 yeah, it just saw a lifelong bit of confusion for me. 174 00:24:03,239 --> 00:24:04,479 And then how did that go into custody? 175 00:24:04,479 --> 00:24:22,279 So from there I was hanging out with the Bitcoiners. So I'd gotten orange-pilled on the app clubhouse and a group of Bitcoiners were discussing what Bitcoin-related startups actually needed to exist versus being a little ancillary. 176 00:24:22,579 --> 00:24:34,179 And insurance was called out as kind of something lacking in the industry, that every mature asset class has a robust insurance market, but Bitcoin was totally lacking in that. 177 00:24:34,479 --> 00:24:47,449 And so that was kind of the idea for the company I initially invested in AnchorWatch and then within about a week I was helping out Rob and within another week I was co and we were in it to win it 178 00:24:47,449 --> 00:24:55,449 What if I told you that even if you started buying Bitcoin near the peak of the 2021 bull market, you could have nearly doubled your money? 179 00:24:55,449 --> 00:25:01,449 Here's how. Imagine you started buying just $50 worth of Bitcoin every week in November 2021. 180 00:25:01,449 --> 00:25:31,449 Then Bitcoin crashed nearly 80% But instead of panicking, you kept buying Through the bear market, through the recovery, and through the next bull run Fast forward to today You would have invested $12,850 And your Bitcoin would be worth more than $25,000 That's a 95% return Outperforming the S&P 500, NASDAQ 100, with even gold over the same period And you didn't need to predict the market That's the power of dollar growth 181 00:25:31,449 --> 00:25:37,509 cost averaging. And our sponsor Rhino makes it easy to automatically buy Bitcoin on your schedule. 182 00:25:38,289 --> 00:25:43,669 Set up automatic Bitcoin purchases daily, weekly, or monthly and let Rhino do the stacking for you. 183 00:25:44,229 --> 00:25:49,729 You can even automate purchases when Bitcoin drops by a certain percentage or reaches a specific price 184 00:25:49,729 --> 00:25:54,329 target. Because building your Bitcoin stack shouldn't require predicting the next move, 185 00:25:54,529 --> 00:26:00,929 just having a plan and sticking to it. Download Rhino using the link below and use code Bitcoinnews 186 00:26:00,929 --> 00:26:09,009 Deposit your first $100 and get $21 in free Bitcoin. With Rhino, you get the most Bitcoin for your dollar on your schedule. 187 00:26:10,669 --> 00:26:16,809 And Tim, in terms of you and your business, I mean, you've got a lot of things cooking right now. Is there anything that you're willing to share? 188 00:26:17,369 --> 00:26:29,429 Absolutely nothing. It's a locked box over here. Yeah, really focused on the, you know, 7, 8, 9 podcasts, you know, from, you know, all under the umbrella of Bitcoin Treasuries, 189 00:26:29,429 --> 00:26:59,329 but really diving into more recently the digital credit space. Similar to Bitcoin Treasuries a handful of years ago, I just see more and more issuers entering the market. And even when I formally announced on Twitter that I was launching the digital credit podcast, I thought to myself, I don't think there's enough people to talk to. But once you start going down any rabbit

hole, you're like, well, between these executives, oh, and then they're doing something. 190 00:26:59,429 --> 00:27:29,289 Oh, and then these guys are ETF issuers. And it's like, okay, we got a dozen people, maybe two dozen people if I try really hard. And then also just launched the ETF playbook podcast. I had Eric Balchunez just realed him with questions for about 90 minutes and published that about a week ago. So the idea is to, you know, between equities and ETFs, it's a lot of access for investors. And so interviewing, again, the executives, the analysts, 191 00:27:29,289 --> 00:27:34,249 the builders in that space, I think is really important and something that I'm interested in. 192 00:27:35,609 --> 00:27:41,529 So let's look forward to my 26. It was a hard year. It was tough. We have a chain split, 193 00:27:42,089 --> 00:27:49,369 self-custody under attack, infighting. Just brutal. Just brutal. Let's just be honest. 194 00:27:51,209 --> 00:27:54,489 But I think you both are bullish and convicted as ever. 195 00:27:54,489 --> 00:28:01,249 So show us the path forward. Why should other people be as bullish as you? 196 00:28:02,469 --> 00:28:16,729 I mean, the price, I think, is in a great place, to be honest. I think for 2026, what should be kind of our worst year of the cycle, I think we hit 58K. 197 00:28:16,729 --> 00:28:41,809 that was a memetic low. And so I feel like, you know, we're in a good place to end the year somewhere in this neighborhood. I think 2027 will be a green year followed by some more green years. So I've considered this year to be a bind season, kind of regardless of month or price. And I still consider it that, you know, through the end of the year. 198 00:28:41,809 --> 00:29:05,989 I think everything is good for Bitcoin and while the losses have been traumatic for the individuals who lost Bitcoin in attacks, whether in any number of the attacks, that's devastating for those individuals, it's devastating for certain companies, it's good for Bitcoin. 199 00:29:05,989 --> 00:29:28,109 Right. Like we are the canary in the coal mine. We are making Bitcoin security stronger every hour, every day. One way or the other, this just sets us up better for the future. And so I'm excited that all our builders in the space are, I mean, they're really geniuses, right? 200 00:29:28,109 --> 00:29:39,029 We have truly exceptional minds working in this space and the inclusion of AI and kind of combining these exceptional minds with this exceptional technology. 201 00:29:39,269 --> 00:29:49,029 I just think while some of it may be a little bit intimidating in the security side, I just think we're going to see amazing things come out of different people and different companies over the next year. 202 00:29:52,229 --> 00:29:56,889 First of all, shout out to the 58K gang, right? They came back, they made a well-guessed appearance. 203 00:29:56,889 --> 00:30:06,209 I thought that was kind of nice. Hello, also see you later, hopefully. Yeah, I think back to when the 204 00:30:06,209 --> 00:30:11,429 Spot Bitcoin ETFs launched and the Bloomberg analysts gave their predictions and then the 205 00:30:11,429 --> 00:30:17,329 flows just knocked every estimate out of the park in short order. The most successful ETF launch in 206 00:30:17,329 --> 00:30:25,109 the history of capital markets. And then you see the iteration of the Bitcoin treasury companies. 207 00:30:25,109 --> 00:30:33,029 you see the advent of these preferred equity products and in 2025 you saw some weeks where 208 00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:38,229 strategy was literally buying a billion dollars or more per week of Bitcoin and so 209 00:30:38,229 --> 00:30:50,949 as you as I see these raises from strategy from strive the amount of progress that strive has been 210 00:30:50,949 --> 00:31:20,929 I'm not able to make during a bear market, arguably since they launched in September, became a reverse version to a public company in September of 2025. It's just been reverse merge, do the first and only M&A transaction in the space so far, buy a bunch more Bitcoin, launch a preferred product, launch another preferred product, I'm probably missing like 17 things. And so that amount of focus, execution, dedication, forward movement, 211 00:31:20,949 --> 00:31:39,609 It gives me a lot of optimism that not only to think about what strategy and strive are going to do, but let's say there's a dozen companies over the next year or two that can kind of get to that level and want to really engage the capital markets in that fashion. 212 00:31:40,889 --> 00:31:44,389 So you kind of, I think of it as a dual engine of the ETFs and the treasury companies. 213 00:31:45,389 --> 00:31:50,449 You know, let's go, let's go buy 10 billion, $100 billion a week of Bitcoin. 214 00:31:50,949 --> 00:32:04,349 and just see what happens. I'm bullish. I'm bullish. I wish I had a seatbelt here because I'm ready for that jetpack, especially with AI. I don't know if it was Lynn or Jeff. Somebody said, 215 00:32:04,349 --> 00:32:13,989 I'm mom. Lisa said that AI is a jetpack. I thought that was really cool. 216 00:32:13,989 --> 00:32:24,329 No, the seeds have been planted, right? The infrastructure has been built out. And now whether it is custody or the treasury companies or what have you, things can really bloom as soon as... 217 00:32:24,329 --> 00:32:38,629 I think we'll see Bitcoin used as collateral in more products. I think we'll see more fiat liquidity come into the market, allowing people to borrow against their Bitcoin more at the institutional level, not only retail. 218 00:32:38,629 --> 00:32:42,389 I think we'll see terms improve for those types of products. 219 00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:45,329 So yeah, I think there's a lot to look forward to over the next year. 220 00:32:45,469 --> 00:32:46,289 Big Bitcoin is here. 221 00:32:46,429 --> 00:32:46,909 That's right. 222 00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:48,409 TLDR. 223 00:32:48,949 --> 00:32:49,949 Sorry, you're asking the question. 224 00:32:50,269 --> 00:32:51,049 No, that's it. 225 00:32:51,109 --> 00:32:51,909 I think we should end right there. 226 00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:52,869 Big Bitcoin is here. 227 00:32:53,309 --> 00:32:54,269 Thank you guys so much. 228 00:32:54,329 --> 00:32:54,609 Thank you. 229 00:32:54,609 --> 00:32:55,109 Appreciate it. 230 00:32:55,449 --> 00:32:55,669 Cheers.