Matt Mingus | Dance Gavin Dance Drummer on Cocaine, Alcohol, & Getting Sober의 전체 녹취록

like that was I kind of saw that as my in to hang out with some older kids and look cool, you know. 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:25.360 And so the first time, like I really got drunk. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:43.279 I don't know, it was it definitely wasn't the first time I like tasted alcohol, but the first time I got drunk, one of the kids had a bottle of Jack Daniels and it was wrapped in tinfoil, and it was oh, and I remember it just tasted so gross, but like I just I loved the effects produced by it, you know. 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:44.800 Yeah, just instantly. 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:45.519 No, I get that. 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:50.879 I felt goofy and like confident, and like we were just messing around and having a good time. 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:51.680 Yeah. 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.439 Makes you feel like you've connected with like your buddies, big time, yeah. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:56.000 Big time. 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:56.959 You're part of it. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:57.519 Yeah. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:58.000 Yeah. 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.879 And so early on, though, like I so I started to get in trouble. 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:06.160 My parent, I I would get caught by my parents, like on a regular basis. 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.000 I was like, how does a nine-year-old hide that? 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:08.560 Yeah. 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:14.879 And so it it more so around like age 12 is when it was kind of more frequent, you know? 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:29.120 And um eighth grade, just uh around that time that I admit the bass player for my for my first band Votality, I got caught selling pot in the bathroom. 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:37.040 And I got not technically expelled, but I got removed from that school to another school. 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.240 And so my parents put me in an outpatient rehab program. 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:40.879 Really? 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:41.279 Yeah. 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:42.319 At 12? 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:42.800 Yeah. 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:43.439 Wow. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:51.519 I was required to go to one AA or NA meeting a week. 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:55.040 And so I would, but I I I didn't really take it serious at that. 00:05:55.360 --> 00:05:56.879 Did you even get like what was happening? 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:05.279 Not really, but but again, I I would walk into these places and there's all these older people there that I wanted to be friends with. 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:11.360 I just was always seeking this like validation at a really young age, you know, and wanting to fit in. 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:19.199 And so I had the bright idea well, I'll I'll just like lie to all these people who want to help me about my sobriety and say I'm sober even though I'm not. 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:20.240 So I wasn't. 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.920 I was more so looking at a a way to get my parents off my back. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:24.560 Yeah. 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:27.279 And then have this new group of friends. 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.959 And so I was living this really strange double life at an extremely young age. 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:31.600 Yeah. 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:33.439 Kind of like polar opposites, too. 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.480 Like you're what you're doing experiencing is not what you're telling people to like please both sides. 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:39.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:55.839 And so I did that for a whole year, and then I had this thing happen um where I I showed up to this event drunk, and I was with some of my friends from that that that circle of recovery. 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:10.560 And uh I uh I was drunk and blacked out, and I I got called out, and they told me that I hadn't been fooling anybody, and they knew I was full of shit for the last year. 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:11.120 Wow. 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:17.439 And so that was kind of the first moment um where I was like, man, maybe I do have a problem. 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:18.959 Maybe I'm not too young. 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:21.040 Like maybe this isn't normal. 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:27.839 And so I I then I did I did take it serious, and I I managed to stay sober for two years at that point in my life. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:33.199 Okay, so then how do we get into 1617 is when you start dance, Gavin Dance? 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:33.519 Yeah. 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:35.519 Okay, how do we get that band together? 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:43.120 Well, uh, I met Will, and uh actually I met Will when I was sober for those those couple of years. 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:49.759 And uh the first time we met, I was at this coffee shop and I was there. 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:55.600 I was hanging out with you know, people in recovery and stuff, and uh it was kind of like a cool hip place. 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:59.040 It was called True Love Cafe in downtown Sacramento. 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:06.480 And I remember I needed a ride home, and and Will was there, and that was the first time I met him, and he was like, I'll give you a ride home. 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.680 Okay, and he gave me a ride home, and then and then that was it. 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:14.480 Like then we didn't like reconnect, then maybe for another year or so. 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:23.759 Oh, and our band, he was in another band called Farewell Unknown, and I was in a band right after Votality. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.839 I uh joined a band called Left Apart. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:40.320 Um and we shared a practice space with Will's band, Farewell Unknown, and they needed, they were wanting to get a new drummer. 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:51.360 Um, so it wasn't like this whole dramatic thing, but I ended up leaving my band Left Apart and joining Will's band Farewell Unknown, and then that didn't really work out. 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:54.480 And Will was like, uh like I still want to start a band. 00:08:54.559 --> 00:09:00.879 I know this this singer up in Seattle, which

who was our first ended up being our first singer, Johnny Craig. 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.120 And he went and picked him up and we started dance, gavin dance. 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:06.399 I love that, yeah. 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:08.480 But you're still like a teenager at this time. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:13.120 Everything you describe, I'm like, gosh, you're like living the rock star lifestyle at like a young age. 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.279 Yeah, there's just a lot of stuff going on for you. 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:15.840 Yeah. 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:38.480 And I think that, you know, kind of played a role and started to get to my head because then around that same time, I started to distance myself from my recovery friends, and I started to have those thoughts like, maybe I am too young to be an alcoholic or a drug addict. 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:44.879 And essentially I just came to the decision, like, well, I think I'm normal. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.200 I'm gonna try some controlled drinking. 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.240 Try to negotiate with yourself, yeah. 00:09:50.639 --> 00:10:00.080 And instantly it was like right when I started, it was like, then I did think I was this like rock star, like living this life, house parties every night. 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.759 You know, it's yeah, it feels like you're living like way beyond the years that you were. 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:06.559 Yeah. 00:10:06.879 --> 00:10:09.279 So where does this band take off? 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:14.000 And how do we get on like how do you guys start charting on the billboard? 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:15.360 Oh man, yeah. 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:32.080 So we spent basically the first two years writing and jamming music and getting drunk and playing for our girlfriends and her practice studio, and then every once in a while playing like a local show. 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.600 But MySpace shout out. 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:37.759 Shout out MySpace, yeah. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:40.000 Uh that's where I got all my music from back then. 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:41.039 That was the thing. 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:50.399 And so a couple of the guys in the band realized, like, oh, we could just like stay up all night and just like add people to check out the band. 00:10:50.799 --> 00:11:00.799 And and they would do they would just sit, um, our screamer John and our bass player Eric, they would just sit in their apartment because that they were roommates and just like add people all night long. 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:04.559 We grew up in a really good area for like this music scene. 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:11.759 Yeah, and there was a manager there, um, Eric Rushing, who discovered us and and wanted to start managing us. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:21.120 He had a buddy who owned a record label that we're actually still on called Rise Records, um back when it was an independent label. 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:23.679 Now it's owned by uh BMG. 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:32.639 But

he was into us, signed us, um, brought us up to Portland, Oregon to record our first album. 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:38.000 We started touring shortly after that, and like the rest is history. 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:45.120 So you're on tour, and I imagine, yeah, you said you're starting to get the little bigger head rock star lifestyle. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.879 What do these tours look like for you when it comes to partying? 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.080 Oh man. 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:59.279 Well, in for the first 10 years of the band, we toured in a van and a trailer. 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:05.759 And so looking back, it wasn't like this uh super glamorous life. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:06.159 Yeah. 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:12.639 Like the quality of life on the road now is like freaking Gucci compared to that, you know? 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:14.399 Yeah, how we used to do it. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.919 And uh we would just like stay at people's houses every night and we just party. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.200 I don't know, we just drank. 00:12:21.759 --> 00:12:23.360 We drank, drank, drank. 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:29.279 And early on, you know, that was before the horrendous hangovers started to set in. 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:33.279 So I could just do that every night and and then keep functioning. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:39.200 And uh like I thought that's just what I was supposed to do. 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:39.600 Right. 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:41.360 Like sex, drugs, rock and roll. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:42.799 Everyone around is doing it too. 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:49.360 Yeah, and it was like all these guys I looked up to in bigger bands and stuff, like that's what they did, you know? 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:52.960 So I just kind of looked at that as an excuse. 00:12:53.200 --> 00:13:00.720 But early on, I was pretty good about coming home from being on tour and being able to kind of turn that off. 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:01.519 Oh, really? 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:08.159 Yeah, and kind of like chill, like, don't get me wrong, like I'd still go out, but it was more of like a on the weekends, you know? 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:08.879 Yeah. 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.919 And of course, you know, it's for me, it's a super progressive disease. 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:18.960 So eventually that went out the window, you know, and I I couldn't turn it off when I got home. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:29.840 Do you remember uh a particular city or instance where it started like showing up while you're performing? 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:30.960 Oh yeah. 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:31.679 Yeah. 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:44.080 I mean, there's a lot of shows that I would drink and play really sloppy, but then at the same time, everyone else in the band was kind of on the same page. 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:47.440 So I wasn't really having consequences for that. 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:50.159 But I specifically remember this one. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:51.840 It wasn't super long ago. 00:13:51.919 --> 00:14:01.759 It was it was a few years before I got sober, but we were on tour in Europe, um, and we were playing in I think it was outside of Milan, Italy, or something. 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:15.759 But we stayed up all night partying, and then we had to play the next day, and instead of like sleeping and resting, I remember we were just started drinking mimosas, and uh I can't just have like one mimosa. 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:16.320 Yeah. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:24.799 So it you know, I probably had like two or three bottles of champagne before we played, and I just played like crap. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:34.799 And I I think that was kind of maybe around the time where my band was starting to maybe get kind of concerned that, you know, I I was kind of not they're seeing a difference. 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.720 So like, yeah, we party, but like this seems to be a little bit much for you. 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:49.440 Yeah, it's because there were there there was a period of time too where I was kind of aware of my drinking and that that I played like crap and uh if I was drunk. 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:54.159 So I would I was pretty good about being able to have like two beers before I played. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.679 Like that was kind of the magic level. 00:14:58.080 --> 00:14:59.519 That was the number in your head, yeah. 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:01.679 Yeah, like okay, that takes the edge off. 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:07.360 I could still perform good, and then I'll party hard afterward, you know, work hard, play hard. 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.360 And uh, but again, like that just it just went away. 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.320 All these rules and boundaries I set for myself eventually just went out the window. 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:25.919 Once you cross the threshold, it's like you can only negotiate with yourself so long before it's just like, what's the why are we trying to do this every single time? 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:35.360 Was there ever when you would get off tour, are the people around you, your family people not in your band and that are on tour with you, do they ever notice anything? 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:36.399 Oh, yeah. 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:37.759 Yeah, definitely. 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:44.080 You know, my my mom, um, she found her way into recovery. 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.399 She is an alcoholic as well. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.440 And so she got sober. 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:55.679 And we we have this thing in recovery, as I'm sure you heard, you know, attraction, not promotion. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:55.919 Yeah. 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:08.559 Meaning, like if there's someone in your life you're worried about or you think might benefit from recovery, it's better to just instead of like forcing it on them. 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:09.039 Yep. 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.440 Yeah. 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:13.360 Because you could lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to

drink. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:13.759 Yeah. 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:18.399 And the second you try and push its head down, it's gonna buck and try and back off of you. 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:19.120 Absolutely. 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.399 And I think that my mom did a really good job with that. 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:30.240 Um, because she would just remind me, uh, you know, if I if I ever want to come back into the rooms, there's a seat. 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.480 She was letting you watch her live it and like showing you that there's hope. 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:39.679 She was being kind of like this like silent hope for you that like, you know, this is real, like this is a thing. 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.440 And and it worked because I I did see the big massive change in her in her life. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.639 Um had you experienced that her life prior to her in recovery. 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:52.000 Oh, well, yeah, yeah. 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.039 And don't get me wrong, she was an amazing, awesome mom. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:01.519 But um, yeah, you know, in in my teen years, or you, you know, uh, she and I started to put things together. 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:02.799 It's like, oh yeah, my mom. 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:03.440 Right. 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:04.240 It's not as obvious. 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.599 Yeah, yeah. 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.240 Yeah. 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.799 And you know, I came, my family was just kind of like that, like social family. 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:17.039 Like did you talk about drinking in your family outside of like getting in trouble, like for something? 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:18.720 Yeah, no, not really. 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:19.519 No. 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.039 Um the drinking wasn't really a thing. 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.119 I, you know, uh more so like the pot. 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.960 They would they would get really upset with me, you know, for for smoking pot. 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.079 The devil's lettuce. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.359 Yeah, the devil's lettuce. 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:33.200 And I was a huge donor. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:33.920 Same. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.559 Um, but god, I don't miss that at all. 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:37.839 But yeah, I don't know. 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.240 We would we would never no one else in my family was in recovery. 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:51.279 There, there were people like my um my grandpa, who's technically my step-grandpa, but uh this is the only grandpa I knew. 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:57.440 He put down the bottle, you know, like 30 years ago before he passed or something. 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.559 So but he was he like white knuckled it. 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.480 He didn't do recovery, you know. 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.559 Um which is like, I feel like it's like half the thing. 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:13.359 It's like, yeah, you're there, but there's this whole piece inside, like you can also like fix that part that was grabbing for it too. 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.279 Like it's so important to address that part. 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:26.160 Yeah, because I like for me, the alcohol and the drugs, they were the solution to those feelings and and and problems in my life. 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.839 So now I take that solution away, so I gotta replace that with something. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:30.319 Yeah. 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:42.319 So it's like, I don't know, we always say it's like, you know, I I I came into recovery for the drinking and I stay in recovery for the thinking. 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:42.880 Yeah. 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:43.440 You know? 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:44.720 Yeah, that's huge. 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:45.839 I've never heard that. 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:46.720 I like that. 00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:58.559 Do you feel like there was a a rock bottom moment for you, or did it just kind of for you become a point that you felt it was too hard or didn't want to manage anymore? 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:03.440 Ooh, man, I I think I had a few rock bottoms. 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.559 They you could always dig yourself deeper. 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:07.440 Always, yeah. 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.319 If we're still here, there's always a deeper, yeah. 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:11.119 Yeah. 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:19.680 And it was during COVID, is when just things started to get really shitty. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.799 A lot of my rock bottoms were like very mental and emotional. 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:31.200 I didn't necessarily, I'm not someone who uh who lost a lot of things, you know. 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:37.680 Like there's a lot of people you meet in recovery that have lost their houses, lost their families, and things like that. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.480 Um, luckily I didn't, but I do have to remember that to yet. 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.839 I very well could if I go back to that lifestyle. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:54.640 But COVID happened and we stopped touring, obviously, because of the lockdowns. 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:58.799 And I didn't know what I was gonna do, and I didn't know how to get through that. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:19:59.519 Yeah. 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.680 And my solution for that was to just drink and use. 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:13.359 I I haven't even mentioned like the other pro underlying problem and substance that's always been here through all this was cocaine. 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:13.839 Okay. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:15.839 When did you start using cocaine? 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:19.279 Uh around like 18 years old. 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.200 Yeah, shows up at parties, otherwise. 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:32.160 Yeah, yeah, and of of course, for the first several years, it you know, it was just like uh out with the boys, yeah, share a little baggie, you know, do a couple bumps. 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:33.359 It's fine, I'm not buying it. 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.599 Like we're just like out

here on like a Saturday night. 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:36.880 Yeah, you know, yeah. 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:45.759 And then it it it then I started partying every night, and then around COVID is when I just went crazy with it. 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.039 And I wasn't even drinking, I would just do cocaine. 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:51.759 Really? 00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000 And it was I would get psychosis and I was like going insane. 00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:57.440 Like not sleeping. 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:12.480 And on top of it, um about a year or two prior to COVID, I when my alcoholism was getting like a lot more serious and apparent, and like I'm thinking maybe something's wrong. 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.279 But then I had this brilliant idea where it was like, oh, I know what the problem is. 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.880 I'm depressed. 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:21.920 I need to be on medication for depression. 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400 So I got on medication and then I continued to drink and use. 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:27.119 Yeah. 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.599 And drinking on that stuff contributed to the insanity for sure. 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:34.079 Yeah. 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.279 And it made my drinking way more extreme. 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.640 Like my black I no matter what, I'd have two drinks and I'd be blacked out. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.000 And I would just do all sorts of like crazy and weird things. 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:57.039 And my wife, I had gotten married or no, we were engaged still at that time, but because we got married during COVID, uh, she was starting to get really concerned and worried. 00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.759 And I thought I was doing this really good job of like hiring. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.599 Hiding all this stuff from her. 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:04.240 Um you gotta learn you're bad at hiding things. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.599 Oh, so bad. 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.200 And I thought I was so good. 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.960 I thought I I thought nobody knows. 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:09.920 No one knows, man. 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:10.720 Nobody knows. 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:11.039 Yeah. 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.000 Everybody knows. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:12.640 Everybody. 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:13.680 Everybody knows. 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.680 Um, but yeah, so she started to get worried. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.160 And then so back to where wait, I have a question about her though. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:29.599 So in your relationship, how did you launch your use or did you try hiding it for a while? 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:35.039 So with the drinking and pot, that was pretty accepted by her. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.279 Um not so much the drinking. 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:41.200 She well, I should say not so much like whiskey and stuff. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:42.559 Yeah, the excessive drinking. 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:52.799 Yeah, like if she saw that, it was like, no, but you know, if I if I had a couple beers, like that was okay with her, which was rare because I had never had a couple beers, you know. 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:59.680 And uh but the cocaine she absolutely hated and was disgusted. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.359 So I just I would hide it. 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.640 And I think for a little while, I think I was successful. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:12.480 Like, I don't I don't think that she really knew because I wasn't getting like yeah, you're not doing it so much, yeah. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:21.279 But then around COVID, when that really progressed and kind of became like the main substance. 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:21.759 Yeah. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000 I mean, she knew, and I and you're in lockdown together, like it's hard to hide something. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:32.160 I go like sit in the bathroom for like an hour thinking, oh, she just thinks I've gone to the bathroom. 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.559 That man takes the longest movies, yeah. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:43.759 And then she knows she'd come in and it was like this just weird cat and mouse game that I put her through, and she'd come in and like look at the counter, be like, What's this? 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.279 Yeah, I don't know. 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:49.920 Yeah, and it was just uh, I don't know, it was just gross. 00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.119 And um, I used to be embarrassed when I talked about it. 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.440 Like, I've definitely gotta remove the shame. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.200 I removed the shame. 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:01.039 I don't regret the past, but I also can't shut the door on it. 00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:05.519 Um, I'm just lucky that she's still with me after everything that I put her through. 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:06.480 That's awesome. 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.279 You guys, so you guys ended up getting married during COVID or after during COVID. 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:20.400 We went from 150-person wedding at a whole at a venue to a 15-person wedding in our plague, man. 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.680 It knocked everybody out. 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:22.480 Wow. 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:22.960 Yeah. 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:24.319 Oh, that's tough. 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:25.839 But it was a blessing. 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.160 Yeah. 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.640 And it was it was cool and kind of special. 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:29.119 Yeah. 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:29.519 Yeah. 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.200 I'm very curious about like the relationships like in recovery too. 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.720 What was it like for you guys navigating your recovery post treatment? 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.759 Yeah, I mean, it was new territory. 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:52.000 I know she was, she could sleep better at night, um, certainly, knowing that I was was trying um to make a change and to be sober. 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:59.440 But when I got out, we did do a few rounds of like marriage counseling

to help navigate this new territory. 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:02.319 And I do think that was really beneficial. 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:10.720 But then we kind of realized we were like, oh, well, now that the drinking and the drugs are out of the equation, like we're we don't really have any problems. 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.640 I'm not lying to you about anything else. 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.359 Like, yeah, like the whole issue was like the lying and like the sneaking around and the drugs and alcohol. 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:18.480 Now that those are gone. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.119 Yeah. 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.079 Okay, like as long as you're good there, we should be good here. 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:23.359 Yeah, so we only did a few. 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.559 We didn't continue that very long, but it but it was beneficial. 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.440 And um, I mean, she's like my number one supporter, you know. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:33.680 That's awesome. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.759 And and it's funny too, because uh she's she's a normal person, she's not an alcoholic or a drug addict. 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:47.440 But when I first got sober and we'd like go out, I'd be like, you know, like you can have a drink, like just because I don't doesn't mean you can't. 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.039 And she's like, I only drank because you did. 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:53.359 And so she's actually been sober as long as I have. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:54.960 Oh, that's maybe sooner. 00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:56.160 Uh I think she got sober. 00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.119 Unintentionally, yeah. 00:25:57.200 --> 00:25:57.599 Yeah. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.799 Oh, I'd love to then hear about when it is you did choose to get sober. 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:03.440 Yeah. 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.839 If you don't mind telling us that story, absolutely. 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:20.720 So the pandemic went by, and all these horrible things happened, and the emotional bottoms just kept like your livelihood was like social being out, performing, being in groups of people, thousands of people, and it just gets just shut down. 00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:30.400 And so I just isolated, but for some reason, uh well, not for some reason, my alcoholism and addiction was started to enjoy the isolation. 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:31.519 That's what it wants. 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.799 Because yeah, then no one could judge me from the whole, yeah, from the whole thing. 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.240 You can just do whatever I want. 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.079 And uh, and things just got so bad, and I I would like look at myself in the mirror and just like be disgusted. 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:54.400 And I would like have like a little bit of coke left over from the night before, and I'd I'd be like, Oh, this I can't do this anymore, and I'd flush it down the toilet, and then like a few hours later, like calling my guy. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.359 And it was just this cycle I was just stuck in. 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.400 And I I just I knew what I was doing was wrong. 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:05.200 And I had this moment where I was leaving. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:10.960 Uh, we had we had band practice because we were still kind of getting together once in a while to play to do something. 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:16.079 And I was leaving and I was like, I'm not gonna call, I'm not gonna call my guy. 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.279 Like, I can't do this. 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.960 And I sat there for like 10 minutes and I was like, I gotta get it. 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.039 And I called him and I went and picked up. 00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.759 And that was kind of a moment where it was like, I'm I'm beholden to this thing. 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.880 Yeah, I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do. 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.160 This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com. 00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:47.039 Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them. 00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:55.200 You can filter by location, price, insurance, coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more. 00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:02.400 Recovery.com is the best place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere. 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.039 And so then um things started to open back up. 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:19.119 We had a tour booked, and I really was convinced that going on tour was gonna like pull me out of the dark place I'd been in and give me as my sense of purpose in life again. 00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:26.400 Um, at that time I thought playing in music in Dance Gavin Dance was my sense of purpose, you know, and my identity. 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:33.519 And uh, and so I went on the road and it was it was just it was worse, you know. 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.720 Like now I didn't have my wife there. 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:45.680 I could thought I could do whatever I wanted, and this all the guys in my band, they had all kind of sobered up. 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:46.400 Yeah. 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:59.759 And they were really concerned, and I had a few warnings, if you want to call it that, like basically light interventions, like get it together, yeah. 00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:12.160 Like I remember it's a little blurry because I was not sober, but our guitar player Will pulled me aside and he was really, really worried and kind of pleading with me like that I need to stop. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:19.279 And uh, but I kind of like took all that as like I'll show these guys, you know? 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:30.799 And so we were playing in Detroit, and uh I've a lot of our fans you know this story, but um for those who don't, we're playing a show in Detroit. 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.160 I was up for like a couple days on a bender. 00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:44.240 Yeah, and even though cocaine, alcohol, and and weed were

like my main substances, there was other a lot of other stuff that I participated in. 00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:45.359 You're on the road, yeah. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.880 Yeah, I mean, I was a dumpster for drugs, you know. 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.279 I just if you had it, I'll I'll try it. 00:29:52.079 --> 00:30:03.119 And so I took some Xanax, some ketamine shrooms, and I was going hard, and uh my band told me I need to sober up. 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:05.119 I said, no, I'll be fine. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.640 And I went out to perform. 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.119 It was a sold-out show at the Masonic Temple in Detroit, which holds like 5,000 people. 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:18.319 We were headlining, and I walk out to play, and I was like, Oh yeah, I got this. 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:21.359 Like, it was like fucking crazy. 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:27.440 I was tripping, I ate a bunch of mushrooms, and first song goes by, went okay. 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:28.720 It was a little sloppy. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:36.160 Second song, a little more sloppy, third song, uh, I think is when it all kind of hit me, and I couldn't play. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.920 I physically couldn't play. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:45.359 I I'd like stopped like during a song, and they my drum tech came up on stage and like ushered me off. 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:54.160 And uh at this point, up until then, I really thought I was like irreplaceable in Dance Gavin Dance. 00:30:54.720 --> 00:31:05.440 Um, but then my drum tech got up and finished the set for me and ended up finishing that whole tour for me, and that was a really humbling experience that I needed. 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:07.839 Did it feel that way in the moment? 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:12.480 No, in the moment it was like, what the hell did I just do? 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:14.319 I just threw away everything. 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.079 I just threw it all away. 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:22.880 And I went back and I like broke down and I had like kind of a mental breakdown. 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:34.480 Um, but I finally had that moment and like gift of desperation where it was like, I need help and I can't do this anymore. 00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:40.079 And I don't know what to do, but I'll find someone who can help me and figure out what to do. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:40.799 That's huge. 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:56.319 So I reached out to our manager, and he was like, All right, I'm gonna call Music Cares, um, which is an organization that um helps musicians and people in the entertainment industry um get into rehabs, they offer all sorts of services. 00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:56.880 That's cool. 00:31:56.960 --> 00:31:58.160 I've never heard of that before. 00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.240 Yeah, their own um they're partners with like the Grammys and uh a really, really good organization. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.319 And I know they've saved a lot of people and they've definitely helped save me. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:18.000 And sure enough, they've they were able to find me um a bed in a treatment facility the next day. 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:19.279 Oh, wow. 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:24.640 So I woke up the next morning and my wife was not on the tour with me. 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:27.039 She was not in Detroit with me that night. 00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:38.720 And I woke up the next morning and my wife was there, and I came to, and I didn't really have much of a recollection other than like that feeling of like it's all coming. 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.720 The doom of call it waking up at the crack of doom. 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.880 Like I just knew whatever I did, I fucked up. 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.240 And uh, and my wife told me what had happened. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.799 She told me I agreed to go to treatment. 00:32:53.119 --> 00:33:00.000 So, of course, I spent like an hour pleading and saying, No, I I I'll I'll go after the tour. 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.039 Like, I I'm not ready. 00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.079 Um, I I need the income from this tour. 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:13.039 And um, and basically essentially I came to the realization like it was now or never. 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.359 And I didn't know what that meant with my band. 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:20.400 I didn't know if that meant me giving that up. 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.160 Um, but I knew that I just had to go. 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.400 That's a lot to be feeling. 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:26.960 Yeah. 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.359 And I was I was scared shitless. 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:29.759 Yeah. 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.279 I couldn't stop crying. 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:39.119 I called my parents, they couldn't they were really emotional, but at the same time, like this time. 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:39.920 Happy. 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.400 Yeah. 00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.920 You know, and like it was just, yeah. 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:56.799 It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also I had this feeling of like hope and ease that like I'm done. 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.359 Yeah. 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.039 I I I don't I don't want to do this anymore, you know? 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.039 It was like in that moment, like something changed, you know? 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:23.199 And uh and so yeah, so I flew to Pasadena, checked into treatment, and right when I sat down, it was like they had all this recovery slogans and things on the wall, and uh it was just like was like oh I'm home for real, you know. 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:32.559 And um they could they like give you give you a few days to like detox, and I was like, no, like I want to get right in it. 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:38.239 So uh next day participated in all the things and just like got right to work. 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.880 Like we were talking about before, no rest when you get there. 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:42.320 You gotta just like roll into it. 00:34:42.559 -->

00:34:43.519 Just roll with it, yeah. 00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:44.400 Yeah, just roll with it. 00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:45.599 Wow, that's huge. 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:55.199 Um, what if you don't mind like telling us a few things that you got out of that treatment that have helped you maintain your sobriety? 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.559 Yeah, I think um one of the big things I got out of that, you know, was accountability. 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:08.800 Um halfway through, it was it was a 30-day facility, and halfway through I was like, I got this. 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:10.880 Like, I know what to do. 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.079 Yeah, I know how to connect with other people in recovery. 00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:14.880 Bye, guys. 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:26.559 Yeah, and and I called a new friend of mine that I had met down there, and he was helping me a lot and and taking me through, you know, literature and things. 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:31.039 And uh I told him, and he was like, dude, you don't got shit. 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.880 You committed to yourself and to your family that you're gonna stay there for 30 days. 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.360 So I don't think you should leave. 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:39.760 Yeah. 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.159 And I was like, oh, he's right. 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.000 And it was so stupid when I looked back. 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:51.440 The reason that I wanted to leave too was like I thought that the food sucked and like all this just yeah, the trivial thing. 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:52.480 Yeah. 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:58.000 No, I mean, I I will the website we work for, recovery.com. 00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:05.760 Like, I work with providers to make sure that we show and feature their facility on our site 100% accurate. 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:09.280 Cause I'm like, I don't want one little speed bump. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.840 Like, hey, I saw this pool in the backyard and it's not here. 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.480 And I got here, like, no, we are not yeah, I'm out. 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:18.800 Sorry, no pickleball by no, like we are that was. 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.159 I'm not even joking. 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:21.920 Yep, I knew, I knew one of the issues. 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:22.559 I know it is. 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.679 There is a freaking swimming pool on the brochure, and there is not one in the backyard, but there was one around the corner that they would take us to. 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:31.840 So uh they made up for it there. 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:33.840 But yes, it's like a very real thing. 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:40.239 Like, whatever little roadblock is there, someone's gonna try and grab that for like a reason to leave. 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:41.199 Yeah, well, yeah. 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:46.239 And before I went in, I was talking on the phone with them, you know, because they're making sure. 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.159 I was like, Well, can I smoke cigarettes in there? 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:51.440 You're like, Yeah. 00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.400 Like, will I be able to watch Netflix? 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.320 It's just like the stupidest. 00:36:56.719 --> 00:36:56.960 I know. 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.519 It's like when someone's like, so we're about to do this whole life-changing thing. 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.960 It's gonna be 30 days where we're gonna take you out of your lifestyle and put you here. 00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:06.079 Do you have any questions? 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:07.280 Is there Netflix? 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.320 Like, yeah, it's like, but like, I don't blame you. 00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:11.519 We need some of our comforts. 00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:12.400 I just need to know. 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:20.000 Yeah, but so yeah, so I got yeah, a lot of accountability out of impatient. 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:26.159 I know for me, it was like nice to have that safe space. 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.079 Um, but the real test is, you know, when you get out. 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:38.000 And they made or they didn't make us, but one of the assignments, because they didn't make us do anything. 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:39.199 I wasn't forced to any of this. 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:40.559 The front door was unlocked. 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:40.880 Yeah. 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:43.280 You know, you could leave jail you want. 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.320 Um, but I took all this stuff serious and I they had us make an exit plan, exit strategy. 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.440 And when I got out, sure enough, I mean, I did everything on that list. 00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:58.079 Good for you. 00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.679 And I stayed accountable to myself. 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:00.480 Good for you. 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.519 And the first thing on the list was right when I got home, was you know, to connect with other people in recovery. 00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.159 And uh, and I did that right away. 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:10.960 Good. 00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:26.320 And all those guys that I met on that day when I got out, and some of them remet because I had been sober before, um, are like my best friends and my group of guys like still nearly five years later. 00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.760 That's amazing. 00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:34.480 Uh, when you got out of treatment, was there a moment like that first two weeks in where you're like, I got this? 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.400 Or did you catch yourself and you're like, like, stay humble? 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:40.000 No, I was I was good. 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:48.320 I like when I got out, I I knew um, you know, every day I have to do this, I have to do that, and I and I stuck with it. 00:38:48.559 --> 00:38:49.199 That's awesome. 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.400 And because like I felt good, yeah. 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.599 You know, like we we call it the pink cloud, yeah. 00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:02.400 And I was definitely riding one, and it was like,

you know, those first 90 days, it was like, oh my god, this is amazing. 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.719 This new life is awesome. 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:10.400 And uh, but it's like life is still in session. 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:21.760 I was gonna say it's just until life happens, and then you know, things things started to happen, and then I had to, you know, learn how to navigate through that stuff sober. 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:26.400 A buddy of mine just just the other night said something that really resonated with me. 00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:36.719 It's like when you get sober, you're gonna feel better, but that doesn't mean you're gonna feel better, yeah, like feel good, you're gonna feel your feelings better. 00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:37.679 Yeah, yep. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:40.960 Um and be able to walk with those feelings, yeah. 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:56.960 So we, you know, I started to have life happen, and and right around six months sober, um, our bass player who struggled with addiction, he overdosed on fentanyl and died. 00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:58.480 Oh my gosh. 00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:05.920 And he he was a really close friend of mine, and he he had been struggling to for a while. 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:10.400 Um, and he had agreed to go to the same rehab that I went to. 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:21.119 And he went and he ended up, he excused himself two days early and left, and then went home and overdosed that night. 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:30.159 And it was it rocked like my whole world and everybody, you know, and the band and around me. 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:42.320 And um, and that was rough, but I just like utilized the tools that I was taught here, and I just leaned on people, you know. 00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:52.239 And um, like I would just remind myself that you know, getting loaded or drinking, it's not gonna solve anything. 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.880 No, it's not, and it's like, okay, I got this really big, awful problem. 00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.920 Well, now let me just introduce this other huge and awful problem into my life and drink over it. 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:03.599 It's not gonna fix anything. 00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.159 Right. 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.119 Especially considering how he passed. 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.239 Absolutely. 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.760 He yeah, he would want you to remain in recovery. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:12.400 Yeah. 00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:14.400 I would imagine there are a lot. 00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:19.199 I'm just my brain was going wild when you said that because it's like you had gotten out of treatment. 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:20.719 It's like six months out. 00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:26.559 You're just starting to be able to like, I'm feeling my feelings now for the first time in decades. 00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:32.960 What were your thoughts then as somebody who got out of treatment and is maintaining sobriety? 00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:37.360 And then to have a friend pass from

an accidental overdose. 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.559 What are the thoughts going through your head at that time? 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:42.239 I mean, it was hard. 00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:58.719 It, you know, I'd spent the six months before that, you know, learning all about my disease and and addiction and alcoholism, and and so watching him still be active in that before he passed. 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:02.239 It's like I said earlier, it's attraction, not promotion. 00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:02.800 Yeah. 00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:08.639 So there's the big part of me that wanted to say, there's another way of life, you know, but we can't do that. 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:09.440 Just show him. 00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:16.079 I can just show up and and live my life and be there for him if he was interested. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:28.079 But then it becomes a matter of uh there's one there's on one hand good friends, but then on the other hand, there's business and work partners. 00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:34.480 And so if you're slacking at your job, yeah, then so it was kind of hard. 00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.760 It was it was a gray area, but we were all really concerned about him. 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:45.199 Um, you know, we'd have like band calls and he'd be like nodding off, and it was just it it was really hard to watch. 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:51.360 So finally we kind of had to give him an ultimatum, yeah, similar to the same one that was presented to me. 00:42:52.079 --> 00:43:09.119 And uh and when he passed, it was like it was just a reminder too of how serious this issue of and disease or whatever you want to call it, of alcoholism and addiction, it it it is so serious. 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.360 It's taking life, it's taking so many lives. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:12.960 It takes lives. 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:18.239 Me, myself, and anyone else in recovery or sobriety, like we're the lucky ones. 00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.800 Like we got out because not everybody does. 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:22.159 Not everyone does. 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:22.880 Yeah. 00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:26.719 Um, and before we move on, just thank you for sharing about that. 00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:29.840 And I'm just really sorry for the loss of him. 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:40.320 You get out of treatment, and in as you went in, you did mention, like, I go in and I don't even know like where I am with the band anymore. 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.360 Like, I'm going in here because like I I feel like like I am I don't have a choice right now. 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.119 Like I have to do this for me. 00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:54.400 And you get out and you get to go back in the band, and we're creating uh the sober lifestyle for yourself. 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:57.760 But like the lifestyle itself is still there. 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.719 How did you in sobriety and navigate like the music life? 00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:03.519 Yeah. 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:12.480 Um first of all, I was beyond grateful that I didn't get kicked out from the band. 00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:12.719 Yeah. 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:13.280 You know? 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:23.039 Um they were all really, you know, proud of me for getting sober and um the band was just it's always been so important to me. 00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:26.159 But um I didn't know what that was going to look like. 00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:26.880 Yeah. 00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:29.599 And I definitely know I had a little bit of fear. 00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:39.920 But when I was in in treatment, I got hooked up with a group of guys on Zoom who were all musicians and people in the entertainment industry. 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:41.920 I love that finding groups within the group. 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:42.400 That's cool. 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:53.280 And a lot of those guys had been sober for a really long time and still toured and lived this cool rock and roll lifestyle sober. 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.199 And that gave me a lot of hope. 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:57.280 It was like okay I can do this. 00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:58.639 Yeah I it can be done. 00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:59.280 Yep. 00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:08.239 Um and then as I continue my journey I hook up with so many others like there's a lot of us a lot of us are sober especially nowadays. 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:14.880 But I did have fear you know going into my first tour sober. 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:25.920 It was different but I remember having a conversation with my band and being like okay look like I get it you know if you guys are gonna drink or whatever like that's fine. 00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:33.679 But can you guys please not like do cocaine around me and they're all like dude none of us do coke. 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:38.079 That was only you and I was like oh yeah I guess that's true. 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:50.559 So um but uh yeah so I quickly learned like okay a lot of this type of behavior it was all me. 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:51.519 Was I the problem? 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:59.679 It was me yeah it was me and so I got lucky in a sense where I and still you know I don't really have to be around it. 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:00.159 Yeah. 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.119 Like we're back stage just hanging out. 00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:03.920 That's awesome. 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:12.559 Yeah I play a show and then I wind down for a little bit watch TV and go to bed you know and guess what I get to wake up in the morning and feel pretty good. 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:17.199 I remember so yeah I I thought I once I got sober I was gonna like feel great. 00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:30.400 No but then age crept up a little yeah so I'll get you I feel good definitely better but yeah I don't have that guilt or shame or remorse or like wondering what happened the night before or just like feel so sick. 00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:38.559 Um like I feel good on tour you know and and I get to be there for the purpose that we're there.

00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:49.360 Yeah and that is to like play music give our fans a cool experience and have fun and like that's that's the only drug that I need you get to show up. 00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:50.800 Yeah yeah that's awesome. 00:46:50.960 --> 00:47:35.360 Yeah so the band has seen uh tons of changes in the past few years one of which being that the entire band is sober that is so cool how does this happen uh I think like every and I don't want to front there you know there's there's a guy that that does smoke pot but he's not one of us and he has every right to do that you know um but nobody drinks there's no alcohol and there's no other drugs for that matter um I think everyone just got older people had kids yeah and they take the job serious you know and they they weren't like me where you know they're able to just decide I don't want to do this anymore. 00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:40.719 Um and it has just completely changed the dynamic of our band. 00:47:40.880 --> 00:48:01.760 It's unbelievable like rarely any drama I say rarely because we're living together for months at a time of course and you're creating there's always different of course stuff's gonna happen but it's not like the it's not like drama drama it's not substance fueled yeah it's just like okay man I woke up on the wrong side of the bed I kind of accidentally snapped at this guy. 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:03.199 You know things like that happen. 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:04.480 We're we're human. 00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:20.159 Um but it's like I don't know we all just get along we're good like everyone really gives it their all to perform and just like I feel like we're just better than we've ever been and we've been a band for 21 years. 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:25.119 So that's pretty crazy that I could say that now at this point you know two decades. 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.000 Wow I've been in the band longer than I haven't been in the band. 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:33.519 That's so cool to say about yeah yeah that's awesome. 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:38.800 So I feel like a ton of people listening to this are scared to get sober. 00:48:39.039 --> 00:49:59.199 Some people if they are musicians or creatives, what if that kills my creativity or just the fear of what is on the other side of getting clean what do you have to say to them or what advice would you give them oh man there's so much I could say um one of the most important things is you don't have to do this alone you know I couldn't it's a it's a we it's a we program deal you know um and as far as the creativity goes I wasn't sure how that was going to work either and I feel like I'm far more creative when when we write I like everything comes quicker and uh I'm just more present in the creative process and that in itself for me is like a drug you know and uh there's just anywhere I go there's recovery it's all over the world you know it's 2026 so even if that's just on on Zoom if it's just a text on my phone it or if it's something in person you know it's recovery is everywhere. 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:05.920 And uh it's one of those things like we mentioned, you know, this is a life or death deal. 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:18.159 Um unfortunately some of us have to die for others to get it but I would you know rather be on the other side of that and I want to live and I want to continue to play music. 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:25.119 I want to continue to help others find their way into this lifestyle if they're interested. 00:50:25.519 --> 00:50:28.239 And uh I know that it's scary. 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:36.639 It was so scary to make this change but it at the end of the day for me I can only speak for myself like was all worth it. 00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:38.559 You know that's awesome. 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:41.039 Matt, thank you so much for sharing your story. 00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:47.760 Yeah we're really really grateful to have you here and thank you all for joining and listening um what do you got coming up? 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.679 Where can people follow you? 00:50:49.920 --> 00:51:27.360 Share yeah yeah yeah uh we're really busy um we are playing the Aftershock music festival in Sacramento California on October 3rd or 4th but uh and then we got a tour in uh Australia coming up in November and we're in the process we finished recording a new album and that'll be out hopefully spring of next year um and we'll coincide with a US tour so just keep your eyes and ears out for that stuff and I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity to be here. 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:43.199 We appreciate you so much uh thank you all and we'll catch you next time on Recovery Cast this episode was hosted by Brittany Bahnard produced by Sam Roberts production assistance and editing by Max Olmsted and booking and travel by Riley Whalen. 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.320 Recoverycast is a production of recovery.com