60. Talking All Things Queer Wedding Attire w/ Portrait Of a Bride On Fire의 전체 녹취록

problem solve and think creatively and try to find things that are outside the mainstream to connect people with resources and designers and like smaller businesses. 00:05:54.272 --> 00:06:03.632 And basically it's a lot more of connecting people and solving problems than it is the creative like aspect of styling and aesthetics and all that stuff. 00:06:05.582 --> 00:06:06.242 Yeah. 00:06:07.173 --> 00:06:07.533 Yeah. 00:06:07.533 --> 00:06:10.892 So you're not like the human out there like. 00:06:11.673 --> 00:06:16.112 Making someone's outfit, but you're like, Hey, like here are these options. 00:06:16.112 --> 00:06:18.843 And like, here's what I think would work really well together. 00:06:19.293 --> 00:06:19.622 Yes. 00:06:19.622 --> 00:06:23.103 Like, I'm not, I'm not a designing or like sewing or any of that stuff. 00:06:23.202 --> 00:06:25.452 I would just connect people with people who do that. 00:06:25.543 --> 00:06:30.463 And it's a little bit of both traditional styling and also connecting people. 00:06:30.463 --> 00:06:34.408 So, kind of being a resource and also being a creative mind at the same time. 00:06:35.637 --> 00:06:36.237 Yeah. 00:06:36.853 --> 00:06:38.233 That is, yeah. 00:06:38.262 --> 00:06:39.283 That is so cool. 00:06:39.283 --> 00:06:41.562 And much, much needed. 00:06:41.663 --> 00:06:45.173 Yeah, as a lot of my listeners know, I'm like planning my own wedding right now. 00:06:45.173 --> 00:06:49.733 And I think you are also, I'm, I'm getting married in like a month. 00:06:51.293 --> 00:06:51.533 Oh my God. 00:06:53.723 --> 00:06:56.153 Mine's in September, but congrats. 00:06:56.153 --> 00:06:57.413 That's so exciting. 00:06:57.562 --> 00:06:58.372 You know what you're wearing. 00:06:59.543 --> 00:07:00.923 I do have a dress. 00:07:01.012 --> 00:07:01.223 Oh, good. 00:07:01.302 --> 00:07:03.043 But yeah, it is like. 00:07:03.973 --> 00:07:04.392 I don't know. 00:07:04.392 --> 00:07:17.052 I, I feel like this is just like one thing where it's like, I, like you have a vision in your mind, but like, I don't like how to know how to make it come to life and like, so yeah. 00:07:17.052 --> 00:07:19.992 I just, I think what you do is so, so awesome. 00:07:20.082 --> 00:07:21.642 Wait, what's your vision? 00:07:21.642 --> 00:07:23.502 What do you mean you don't know how to make it come to life? 00:07:23.502 --> 00:07:24.103 What's your vision? 00:07:24.103 --> 00:07:24.598 Is it different? 00:07:26.187 --> 00:07:33.677 No, just like, well, I, so I do have a dress but the vision is I wanna make it into like a two piece dress. 00:07:34.007 --> 00:07:34.067 Yeah. 00:07:34.067 --> 00:07:40.608 And so that's been like, its own kind of struggle, just because, do you So I haven't seen a ton of those. 00:07:41.177 --> 00:07:42.437 I'm wearing a two piece dress for. 00:07:43.562 --> 00:07:44.702 Shut up. 00:07:44.937 --> 00:07:45.598 Oh my God. 00:07:45.598 --> 00:07:45.877 Yeah. 00:07:45.882 --> 00:07:51.423 I honestly, okay, so I

don't know how old you are, but when I was like in middle school, like, uh. 00:07:52.038 --> 00:07:57.528 Crop tops and long skirts, separates were a thing for like prom and stuff or whatever. 00:07:57.557 --> 00:07:57.647 Mm-hmm. 00:07:57.887 --> 00:07:59.538 And so maybe it was high school, I don't remember. 00:07:59.538 --> 00:08:07.788 But, uh, point being is there's a population of people who remember that time and don't want separates to be a thing again. 00:08:07.968 --> 00:08:10.637 But I honestly think that they're very much up and coming. 00:08:10.848 --> 00:08:20.687 So, I am super into the separates game, especially for, I mean, I'm a skirt and dress girly, so like I love wearing skirts and dresses, but like. 00:08:21.033 --> 00:08:24.812 Separates are so underrated, like why are we not making more outfits? 00:08:24.872 --> 00:08:25.262 I don't know. 00:08:25.442 --> 00:08:28.533 It's just like there's so many more possibilities out there with separates. 00:08:28.533 --> 00:08:34.923 So, but yeah, if you ever need help, I'll send you my lookbooks for inspo or if you need any, whatever resources, let me know. 00:08:35.822 --> 00:08:36.753 Yeah. 00:08:36.903 --> 00:08:39.033 Oh my gosh, that's incredible. 00:08:39.093 --> 00:08:39.603 Yeah. 00:08:40.082 --> 00:08:44.973 Yeah, I went to a private school so I didn't, with like a uniform, so I. 00:08:45.437 --> 00:08:48.018 Wasn't in that same cool prom loop. 00:08:48.118 --> 00:09:13.158 But I think actually this is, this is something interesting that I think kind of flows into like the next topic of discussion anyways is like, from your perspective, do you think that the people you work with tend to wear things to their wedding that are already very, like, similar to what they do or like day to day or like Totally different. 00:09:13.457 --> 00:09:20.028 And I guess I'm asking because like for me, I, I haven't worn a dress in probably like three years. 00:09:20.057 --> 00:09:24.918 Like they're not my thing, but for some reason, like something about me. 00:09:25.562 --> 00:09:28.082 Picturing getting married, like, I wanna wear a dress. 00:09:28.352 --> 00:09:31.173 So, I don't know, I think that's kind of an interesting, yeah. 00:09:31.177 --> 00:09:31.538 Curious. 00:09:31.538 --> 00:09:31.737 Yeah. 00:09:32.523 --> 00:09:45.362 I think it, the answer to that question definitely depends on who you are, because I have a couple clients who are like, I want to wear something that really feels like me. 00:09:45.362 --> 00:09:49.082 So it's more of an elevated version of what they normally wear on a day-to-day basis. 00:09:49.082 --> 00:09:49.577 Right. 00:09:49.577 --> 00:09:54.437 It's higher quality, it's embellished, it's something that is different that's gonna really elevate their outfit. 00:09:54.837 --> 00:10:07.707 And then I have other clients that, uh, like you have not worn dresses in years and really thought that they were gonna wear pants to their wedding because of that, uh,

because they, they found it hard to see themselves. 00:10:07.967 --> 00:10:10.878 In a dress, even though that's like the ideal, right? 00:10:11.457 --> 00:10:17.607 I was actually at a wedding dress appointment with a client last week and they were set on a jumpsuit. 00:10:17.668 --> 00:10:22.168 And of course there are no jumpsuits at wedding dress shops, maybe one, and usually they're ugly. 00:10:22.457 --> 00:10:24.498 But anyways, they wanted a jumpsuit. 00:10:24.498 --> 00:10:30.888 So the idea was the dresses they were trying on were going to be converted into a jumpsuit, and my client was. 00:10:31.062 --> 00:10:38.743 Uh, tried on one of the dresses and was almost in tears and was like, I like this as a dress so much that I just wanna wear it as a dress. 00:10:39.133 --> 00:10:43.362 And for the first time in like three years, they're gonna wear a dress. 00:10:43.368 --> 00:10:43.768 Mm-hmm. 00:10:43.852 --> 00:10:55.212 And sometimes the world is so like messed up that like, maybe you don't wear a dress for three years because you don't have the confidence to wear a dress for three years, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be wearing one on your wedding day, you know? 00:10:56.533 --> 00:11:05.263 At the same time, just because like you identify a certain way or you present yourself normally a certain way, doesn't mean you have to wear a dress on your wedding day. 00:11:05.743 --> 00:11:16.692 I think the social norms that dictate formal wear are so archaic and like if we just really need to break that mold to like make it okay to do whatever you want, you know? 00:11:17.472 --> 00:11:18.283 Yeah. 00:11:19.153 --> 00:11:19.633 Yeah. 00:11:19.692 --> 00:11:22.663 I love that the social norms are indeed archaic. 00:11:23.293 --> 00:11:23.653 Yeah. 00:11:24.702 --> 00:11:25.302 Yeah. 00:11:25.903 --> 00:11:28.663 No, I think, I think that makes a lot of sense. 00:11:28.663 --> 00:11:36.253 And so, I mean, yeah, I, I would love to just like kind of chat about like queer wedding entire, like just dive a little bit deeper. 00:11:36.253 --> 00:11:40.123 I know you touched on it a little bit in your intro just as far as like. 00:11:40.827 --> 00:11:44.638 How needed this is because not everybody you know mm-hmm. 00:11:44.998 --> 00:11:47.638 Fits into those certain boxes or things like that. 00:11:47.717 --> 00:11:48.048 But yeah. 00:11:48.048 --> 00:11:50.177 Can you kind of just like give an overview of like. 00:11:51.513 --> 00:11:53.493 What options are out there? 00:11:53.493 --> 00:11:57.482 Maybe some cool things you've seen and then we can dive into the specifics. 00:11:58.052 --> 00:11:58.562 Yeah. 00:11:58.653 --> 00:12:04.802 Before we get into the, like what's an in-between option or what is not traditional options? 00:12:04.873 --> 00:12:08.383 I do wanna hold space for the people that are. 00:12:09.447 --> 00:12:14.638 Wearing suits, but whom suits are not designed for them to wear. 00:12:14.878 --> 00:12:21.118 Yeah, there's a lot of people who don't fit into suits like normally and aren't made for their types of bodies or whatnot. 00:12:21.418 --> 00:12:24.023 And similarly, there's a lot of people who would like to wear dresses. 00:12:24.913 --> 00:12:27.883 Traditional wedding dresses and they're just not made for their bodies. 00:12:28.112 --> 00:12:31.562 Maybe because they're assigned male at birth, maybe because they're plus size, whatever, right? 00:12:32.043 --> 00:12:39.543 There's a number of reasons why you might fit in those gender norms and still not find your wedding attire. 00:12:39.633 --> 00:12:42.123 So we hold space for those people and we wanna live for these people too. 00:12:42.932 --> 00:12:51.842 But outside of that, there are still a lot of people that want to express themselves in ways that are not part of the traditional like suit or dress attire. 00:12:51.842 --> 00:12:52.263 And. 00:12:52.937 --> 00:13:03.798 The problem with social norms dictating traditional attire is like the social norms are, you know, uh, built through the patriarchy and through white supremacy. 00:13:03.798 --> 00:13:09.677 And so they're like inherently trying to suppress like, like certain things, right? 00:13:09.737 --> 00:13:14.177 They, that women shouldn't wear pants and they need to cover their legs and, you know, whatever it is. 00:13:14.177 --> 00:13:16.937 So it kind of still dictates the norms of today. 00:13:16.937 --> 00:13:20.717 But the question is, if you don't fall into those like. 00:13:21.048 --> 00:13:25.067 Gender norms for formal attire, what do you wear? 00:13:25.577 --> 00:13:31.427 Because the social norm that says if you're outside of the norm, it's not formal anymore. 00:13:32.057 --> 00:13:33.317 What is your solution? 00:13:33.768 --> 00:13:34.487 Mm-hmm. 00:13:34.707 --> 00:13:44.788 So I think my, the problem that I've had to begin to solve recently is, is how to, how to, how to think about formal attire in a way that is. 00:13:45.102 --> 00:13:53.332 Socially acceptable as a queer person that doesn't wanna identify or can't fit into the mold that people have prescribed for us. 00:13:53.812 --> 00:14:08.602 And I, my creative solution to that is then well, like what are formal events outside of weddings is basically like the red carpet or then that gala or whatever, and they treat. 00:14:09.457 --> 00:14:14.827 Formality and fashion very differently than we do at weddings, and I like, like, why is that? 00:14:15.097 --> 00:14:17.467 Because Billy Porter can wear a dress. 00:14:18.623 --> 00:14:28.763 Slash suit on the red carpet and absolutely slay and that's fine, but it's not as socially acceptable to do that at your wedding for some reason or why. 00:14:28.993 --> 00:14:32.832 Does Billie Eilish wear a t-shirt and shorts on the red carpet? 00:14:33.182 --> 00:14:37.472 And that's socially acceptable, but it's not socially acceptable to wear a t-shirt and shorts to your wedding. 00:14:38.062 --> 00:14:39.322 Granted it's not.

00:14:39.342 --> 00:14:41.743 An old ready T-shirt and shorts. 00:14:41.802 --> 00:14:43.842 It's a Louis Vuitton shirt and shorts. 00:14:44.263 --> 00:14:51.852 But my point is that we should really be reformulating what we think is formal in like acceptable and formal occasions. 00:14:52.232 --> 00:14:52.682 And. 00:14:53.307 --> 00:14:55.048 Right now it's kind of being held back. 00:14:55.048 --> 00:15:01.737 The wedding industry is really held by tradition and the fashion wedding industry is really held by tradition. 00:15:02.128 --> 00:15:13.847 So even though fashion itself is quite the opposite in terms of innovation and wanting to do the next big thing so I guess my problem is trying to think creatively about how we do these things. 00:15:13.847 --> 00:15:18.888 And because there are a lot of queer people who don't feel comfortable in anything other than a t-shirt. 00:15:18.888 --> 00:15:20.717 So how do we make a t-shirt? 00:15:21.288 --> 00:15:22.967 Like your wedding attire. 00:15:23.357 --> 00:15:29.148 I have a friend who's a designer in New York and actually is incorporating a t-shirt into his first collection of like wedding attire. 00:15:29.148 --> 00:15:34.847 So, because he knows that those people exist that want that comfort, you know? 00:15:35.207 --> 00:15:35.567 Mm-hmm. 00:15:35.898 --> 00:15:43.457 And I think part of the problem is that people don't have the confidence to wear whatever they want because the world is the world, right? 00:15:43.878 --> 00:15:47.148 And so part of the job is, is finding. 00:15:47.807 --> 00:16:00.798 Creative solutions to wedding attire, but part of the job is also trying to uplift and empower people to be like, you can wear whatever you want, it's your day, but also you should wear whatever you want on every other day anyways. 00:16:00.857 --> 00:16:07.577 And like kind of empowering people to be more themselves and just to be more them centric, which is. 00:16:08.493 --> 00:16:14.972 I don't know, sounds like a hot take, but it's not, uh, to take up more space, especially on your wedding day. 00:16:14.972 --> 00:16:15.393 It's your day. 00:16:15.962 --> 00:16:29.773 So it's a little bit of a, it's a little bit of like helping people find these resources and helping people think about the fashion industry, but also just like really empowering people to be themselves and to reclaim that day for themselves. 00:16:32.143 --> 00:16:32.712 Yeah. 00:16:33.192 --> 00:16:33.913 Oh my gosh. 00:16:33.913 --> 00:16:44.712 You, I think you just like blew my mind with like talking about like the comparison of how the standards are totally different for something like a red carpet versus a wedding. 00:16:44.712 --> 00:16:44.773 Yeah. 00:16:44.923 --> 00:16:51.732 Like I've literally never thought about it, but like that is so true and it's like, yeah, you see a lot more. 00:16:53.067 --> 00:16:58.768 People wearing things they wouldn't normally or dresses or suits, whatever, like, yeah. 00:16:58.857 -->

00:17:00.177 That is so interesting. 00:17:00.357 --> 00:17:10.408 I also think what you said about like empowering people to feel more themselves and what feels, you know, comfortable and like them is so accurate. 00:17:10.458 --> 00:17:14.728 And also it brings to mind, I just did a recent episode on how like. 00:17:15.538 --> 00:17:19.583 Trends like as a whole can also feel like very straight and heteronormative. 00:17:19.923 --> 00:17:20.343 Mm-hmm. 00:17:20.482 --> 00:17:29.337 And how sometimes it can be tough as a queer person to like go against it, right? 00:17:29.337 --> 00:17:33.688 Because then you have to like put more energy and you have to like explain yourself. 00:17:33.688 --> 00:17:35.097 You have to like do all these things. 00:17:35.097 --> 00:17:41.818 So I guess I'm curious if you have any like, tips for folks on kind of navigating that when it comes to what they're wearing. 00:17:42.568 --> 00:17:58.398 I think that is a much bigger question than I'm able to solve because that is like, uh, to give you an example, I, I uninvited my parents to my wedding and I changed what I wanted to wear after I uninvited them. 00:17:58.908 --> 00:18:07.278 Not because I really cared what they thought, but like subconsciously in the back of my head I was like, I just don't want to like. 00:18:07.773 --> 00:18:13.323 Push the label and make problems and create situations and like put more effort in. 00:18:13.803 --> 00:18:16.923 I don't want to make it more than I needed to be. 00:18:17.013 --> 00:18:24.093 And so because my parents are just like not people who are fully supportive in my life, and so I didn't want them at my wedding, but that's not the moral of the story. 00:18:24.093 --> 00:18:26.223 The moral of the story is when you. 00:18:26.943 --> 00:18:43.533 Take those like pieces out of your wedding that are not fully supportive or not fully you, it actually changes like the way you look at attire and the way that you look at it in terms of a form of self-expression. 00:18:44.073 --> 00:18:48.093 Because if people are limiting who you are, you're not gonna wanna express yourself. 00:18:48.763 --> 00:18:52.333 And so I think that that's like a bigger question where it's like. 00:18:53.308 --> 00:19:00.358 Yeah, you don't wanna have to explain yourself or step on toes, but I like firmly believe that you just shouldn't be inviting those people in the first place. 00:19:00.748 --> 00:19:00.838 Hmm. 00:19:00.868 --> 00:19:07.018 If they're gonna ruffle feathers by not inviting people to your wedding, you might as well do it before your wedding. 00:19:07.018 --> 00:19:11.098 Then on the day of when they start, like quibbling about what you're wearing. 00:19:11.458 --> 00:19:18.418 Or if you start, go turning inward because, uh, you're like embarrassed or you're not fully feeling yourself, like. 00:19:18.928 --> 00:19:19.948 It's your day. 00:19:19.978 --> 00:19:25.168 It is also the like most formal event, biggest event of your life. 00:19:25.168 --> 00:19:29.518 Because most people don't go to the MET Gala or the red carpet or a celebrity whatever, right? 00:19:29.788 --> 00:19:29.878 Mm-hmm. 00:19:30.568 --> 00:19:33.508 That this is, this is your day. 00:19:33.838 --> 00:19:36.358 It's not, I don't believe that it's the best day of your life. 00:19:36.358 --> 00:19:37.558 I'm not that kind of person. 00:19:37.658 --> 00:19:42.308 But it could be, and it, you should treat it as a very big occasion. 00:19:42.308 --> 00:19:43.238 It is a big deal. 00:19:43.808 --> 00:19:47.828 I just think that everyone deserves to like feel themselves and be themselves. 00:19:48.398 --> 00:20:02.438 And so yeah, it's like hard to find wedding attire, but I also just feel like don't take on the responsibility of providing for those people that take away from who you are. 00:20:03.308 --> 00:20:14.588 On your wedding day, which is, I said, it's a much bigger problem than I'm here to solve, but I just, I really, really believe that like you can't fully be yourself if there are people holding you back. 00:20:15.218 --> 00:20:15.638 Mm-hmm. 00:20:17.048 --> 00:20:17.648 Yeah. 00:20:18.728 --> 00:20:19.238 Yeah. 00:20:19.298 --> 00:20:20.378 That's so true. 00:20:20.828 --> 00:20:30.218 Almost kind of like it's up to each individual person and then together as a couple to kind of decide like what. 00:20:30.953 --> 00:20:32.423 Their capacity is. 00:20:32.428 --> 00:20:32.678 Mm-hmm. 00:20:32.683 --> 00:20:42.943 Like, I don't know, something I feel like I'm thinking is, you're like doing a wedding tour and the person's like, oh, it's two brides, or something like that. 00:20:42.943 --> 00:20:44.443 Like, of course we're inclusive. 00:20:44.473 --> 00:20:45.913 Can't wait to see your dresses. 00:20:45.913 --> 00:20:50.473 You know, like just things like that where people are almost like, mm-hmm. 00:20:50.503 --> 00:20:50.863 Okay. 00:20:50.863 --> 00:20:56.743 Is it more important to me to like, you know, save my energy for something else? 00:20:56.743 --> 00:20:59.113 Or does it feel more important to just kind of be like. 00:21:00.078 --> 00:21:01.488 Just easier to do this. 00:21:01.488 --> 00:21:03.108 Like, yeah. 00:21:03.228 --> 00:21:10.278 So when I, when I got engaged, everyone was like, so, uh, are you wearing a dress or pants? 00:21:10.308 --> 00:21:19.818 And I'm like, does me getting engaged to a woman that I've been dating for seven years change my gender identity or expression at all? 00:21:20.328 --> 00:21:22.998 Like, no, it should not, it should not. 00:21:22.998 --> 00:21:23.328 Like. 00:21:24.298 --> 00:21:28.648 But then I'm sitting there and I'm like, wow, well, I really should just fucking be myself. 00:21:28.918 --> 00:21:29.398 You know? 00:21:29.728 --> 00:21:40.438 I like why it shouldn't change my gender identity, but, but also if I'm not expressing myself who I am at that time, when why not? 00:21:40.708 --> 00:21:41.428 You know what I mean? 00:21:42.168 -->

00:21:46.308 Uh, weddings are gonna ruffle feathers no matter what, even if you do everything right. 00:21:46.368 --> 00:21:47.208 Uh, quote unquote. 00:21:47.208 --> 00:21:47.568 Right. 00:21:47.898 --> 00:21:51.738 Uh, weddings are gonna ruffle feathers even when you're as inclusive as you can. 00:21:51.738 --> 00:21:57.238 Even if you're trying to be as accommodating to everyone as you can. 00:21:57.268 --> 00:22:00.568 Even if you're trying to invite the people you don't wanna invite. 00:22:01.018 --> 00:22:03.058 You're gonna ruffle feathers no matter what. 00:22:03.408 --> 00:22:11.028 Because for some reason people have expectations and when expectations are, are not met, people react really differently. 00:22:11.388 --> 00:22:19.158 And it's really challenging to see the ups and downs of weddings because weddings are funerals, like weddings are. 00:22:19.158 --> 00:22:21.438 As much grieving as it is. 00:22:21.443 --> 00:22:22.193 Celebrating. 00:22:22.193 --> 00:22:28.463 Like weddings are really fucking challenging sometimes because you take a lot of emotional baggage with you. 00:22:28.763 --> 00:22:33.893 And I just, I, your wedding's gonna be about you. 00:22:33.893 --> 00:22:37.943 If you're gonna have a wedding, you might as well make it you, you know? 00:22:38.453 --> 00:22:40.433 You shouldn't hold a wedding for someone else, you know? 00:22:41.843 --> 00:22:42.143 Yeah. 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:49.604 I love kind of what you called out earlier too, that whatever combination of things that people wanna wear at their wedding are like. 00:22:50.724 --> 00:22:52.614 Great and totally acceptable. 00:22:52.614 --> 00:23:03.114 And so I was thinking it could be interesting just to see if you like, had any ideas or things you wanted to share kind of for several different combos. 00:23:03.114 --> 00:23:13.554 So like, I don't know, I'm even thinking, I've heard people say things like, oh, if there are two people wearing dresses, like you should be mindful of. 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:22.479 The, like, shades of light so that they're not like making one, I don't know, just like anything kind of like that, that comes to mind. 00:23:22.689 --> 00:23:29.139 I personal preference, if you're both wearing dresses, just don't make it the same neckline. 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:36.069 It can be the same silhouette, but I just sometimes think if you have the same neckline, it looks really, really like twins. 00:23:36.389 --> 00:23:43.079 I was thinking about this recently because I have a client couple, so two people who are getting married and I'm styling them both. 00:23:43.469 --> 00:23:47.789 And I was wondering, even though they have different inspiration for what they wanna wear. 00:23:48.104 --> 00:23:52.604 I was wondering if they should be going to the same designer, because they're both looking for a custom outfit. 00:23:52.664 --> 00:23:52.934 Right. 00:23:53.684 --> 00:24:01.994 And the, the pros and cons of that would be like, if you're going to the same designer, obviously you're going to look very unified. 00:24:01.994 --> 00:24:03.764 You're gonna look like a com. 00:24:03.854 --> 00:24:06.374 Like, like it was all well thought out. 00:24:06.524 --> 00:24:09.614 It's gonna be a lot harder to coordinate something if it's two different designers. 00:24:10.153 --> 00:24:11.954 However you kind of. 00:24:12.884 --> 00:24:15.314 Take away someone's of Indi Individuality. 00:24:15.314 --> 00:24:19.094 When you pick a designer that aligns with one person and out the other. 00:24:19.184 --> 00:24:22.964 So if they both align, that's great, but you don't wanna take away that individuality. 00:24:22.964 --> 00:24:33.194 So my point in saying this is I, if you are both like really into a high neckline, then wear the freaking high neckline, you know? 00:24:33.194 --> 00:24:36.794 But I just really think that sometimes people don't. 00:24:37.334 --> 00:24:40.484 Dig deep enough to ask themselves like, what really feels like me? 00:24:40.484 --> 00:24:49.574 They kind of default to things that they're used to and or they expect, uh, that people want them to wear, you know, something like that. 00:24:49.574 --> 00:24:53.954 And I just think people kind of get stuck especially, uh, in like. 00:24:54.809 --> 00:24:59.999 Relationships where people identify the same people kind of share personalities at a certain point. 00:25:00.059 --> 00:25:04.619 And so it's not uncommon to pick a similar dress if you're both wearing dresses. 00:25:05.069 --> 00:25:08.369 So I don't have any tips for like matching colors. 00:25:08.369 --> 00:25:18.359 Obviously, like if you wear champagne dress in a pure snow white dress, that contrast might look a little interesting and not have the same bridal effect as it normally would. 00:25:19.109 --> 00:25:21.899 Also, if you're gonna be happy wearing that, just fucking wear it. 00:25:21.929 --> 00:25:22.709 You know what I mean? 00:25:22.739 --> 00:25:33.869 I just, I really believe that like, if you're in touch with, with, uh, personal style and you're in touch with what you love and expressing yourself through fashion, you literally can't go wrong. 00:25:33.929 --> 00:25:35.099 You really can't go wrong. 00:25:35.999 --> 00:25:36.028 Mm. 00:25:36.719 --> 00:25:37.199 Yeah. 00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:38.219 Yeah. 00:25:38.309 --> 00:25:38.939 Love that. 00:25:40.169 --> 00:25:40.469 Yeah. 00:25:40.469 --> 00:25:44.229 What about like things that I. 00:25:45.129 --> 00:25:51.129 You like, loved or really enjoyed seeing if like two people are wearing suits or there's one of these? 00:25:51.179 --> 00:25:59.909 I, what I really actually love to see is just when people think really creatively about it is like, I think. 00:26:00.644 --> 00:26:15.974 Like the future of bridal fashion, in my opinion, is gonna be like jackets, boleros capes, like those types of things because it's a gender neutral like garment like an overskirt can be over pants. 00:26:15.974 --> 00:26:18.374

It doesn't have to be over another dress, you know? 00:26:18.724 --> 00:26:25.564 I think there's a, and a lot of people want the drama of a dress, but not the femininity of a dress. 00:26:25.894 --> 00:26:26.794 And so I think like. 00:26:27.409 --> 00:26:34.459 The, the, the creative ways to think about it's how do you incorporate the drama of the, of a train, of a dress without having a dress? 00:26:34.729 --> 00:26:37.129 Like how do you get a train without having a dress? 00:26:37.309 --> 00:26:38.119 Is it a cape? 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:39.079 Is it an overskirt? 00:26:39.109 --> 00:26:44.449 Is it, uh, you know, uh, really long sleeves? 00:26:44.479 --> 00:26:49.339 You know how, uh, like long, 70 sleeves and I just. 00:26:49.744 --> 00:27:02.494 I think like thinking creatively is the best way to do it because I think a lot of people play it safe and do what they think they should be doing, or they worry too much about shades of white or they worry too much about complimenting each other. 00:27:02.494 --> 00:27:10.024 When I really think people should turn inward and just think about what makes themselves happy, and then tell a story with that and what your partner's wearing. 00:27:10.484 --> 00:27:15.284 I see a lot of celebrities that really don't dress the as like. 00:27:17.549 --> 00:27:20.639 They don't go off, they don't like dress as well as they should at their wedding. 00:27:20.669 --> 00:27:25.229 And I, I don't know what it is, but they are like way more closed off. 00:27:25.229 --> 00:27:30.239 And I just feel like there's a lot of people who don't express themselves enough at their wedding. 00:27:30.679 --> 00:27:33.079 And so I would just really encourage everyone to like, I. 00:27:34.339 --> 00:27:45.649 Explore, do a lot of inspiration, like looking at a lot of inspiration and thinking about what is out there because there's a lot of possibilities and it's not just like suit and dress. 00:27:45.649 --> 00:27:54.339 So, you can play with color, you can play with texture, you can play with the fabrics, you can play with silhouettes and pants and skirts and anything. 00:27:54.389 --> 00:27:58.079 Jackets and corsets and anything, you can literally play with it all. 00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:01.769 So I think that's, it's really fun when people get creative. 00:28:02.609 --> 00:28:04.889 I wouldn't worry too much about it if it feels like you. 00:28:04.919 --> 00:28:05.369 It's good. 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:07.259 Yeah. 00:28:08.849 --> 00:28:21.269 Are there some things that like you have like seen recently or see like popping up that are like, just super fun and interesting in terms of. 00:28:22.634 --> 00:28:23.234 Styling. 00:28:23.534 --> 00:28:31.484 I think something that's really interesting is, well, there's, there's more brands doing, having inclusive styling. 00:28:31.974 --> 00:28:35.334 When I say inclusive styling, I mean they're incorporating a little bit more of pants. 00:28:35.724 --> 00:28:41.184 Uh, they aren't

necessarily being inclusive in their representation of people wearing those clothes, but it's fine. 00:28:41.694 --> 00:28:46.574 Uh, but I wanted to note that, I think the more fun things. 00:28:47.624 --> 00:28:51.254 And the new shift that we're seeing is like for the wedding party. 00:28:51.314 --> 00:28:55.274 And'cause I think that's also really hard and that's something that I do sometimes as well. 00:28:55.274 --> 00:28:58.934 And so I wanna talk about it because people are in a wedding party way more than they're getting married. 00:28:59.444 --> 00:29:13.964 And it's hard in a wedding party when everyone wants to be identical because if you're not a dress girl and everyone's wearing a dress and everyone's wearing an identical dress on top of it, you're really gonna stick out and you're trying not to stick out in a wedding party usually. 00:29:14.354 --> 00:29:14.834 And. 00:29:15.449 --> 00:29:16.739 So that gets really challenging. 00:29:16.739 --> 00:29:25.559 So I would really encourage anyone who's going to get married to not put too many rules around what people are wearing. 00:29:26.129 --> 00:29:34.609 Uh, leave it a little bit open-ended if you wanna dictate colors, dictate colors but really let people experiment with what they find. 00:29:35.419 --> 00:29:38.419 What they find formal and like great. 00:29:38.419 --> 00:29:41.209 And like try to coordinate it after the fact. 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:46.528 Let your wedding party wear capes and vests and pants and whatever. 00:29:46.749 --> 00:29:56.229 Because I think a wedding party is an archaic like understanding of like weddings anyways, that there are only girls on the girls side and boys on the boys side. 00:29:56.229 --> 00:29:58.304 It's kind of weird and not really modern. 00:29:59.064 --> 00:30:00.294 And not really the case anymore. 00:30:00.294 --> 00:30:22.284 So I don't know why bridal parties are still a thing, but I think that if you're someone who's having a wedding, if you're not putting the pressure on queer people to do something different when everyone else is doing what the traditional norm is, really ostracizes queer people further. 00:30:22.584 --> 00:30:27.864 So I just like would really encourage anyone who's like getting married soon to think about in their wedding party. 00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:32.439 To encourage more than just the queer people to think outside the box. 00:30:32.489 --> 00:30:35.039 Because I think that would really, really change the game. 00:30:35.549 --> 00:30:42.009 Some things that people do that I think do think outside the box that could be like gender fluid things are I. 00:30:42.403 --> 00:30:50.054 Scarves or like an ascot, you know, like something around your neck that's not necessarily a formal like men traditional men's tie. 00:30:50.464 --> 00:30:52.774 Or like a bolo tie. 00:30:52.774 --> 00:30:55.534 Those are very, I would see those are gender neutral. 00:30:55.614 --> 00:30:56.574 Stuff around your neck. 00:30:56.604 --> 00:30:58.403 Capes are definitely gender neutral. 00:30:58.634 --> 00:31:03.554 I think the style of the cape is like sometimes feminine and sometimes max masculine, but I think. 00:31:04.214 --> 00:31:10.514 Tapes can be that gender neutral and also monochrome outfits are always formal no matter what. 00:31:10.514 --> 00:31:13.544 So I think that's like a gender neutral way to do like a wedding party. 00:31:13.994 --> 00:31:15.824 As long as your like outfits matching. 00:31:15.824 --> 00:31:17.384 If it's separate, it's fine, you know? 00:31:17.725 --> 00:31:18.145 Wow. 00:31:18.415 --> 00:31:21.325 I love even just being able to ask that question. 00:31:21.805 --> 00:31:22.345 How did you say it? 00:31:22.345 --> 00:31:25.345 Like how do you view formal, like that's so. 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:26.890 I don't know. 00:31:26.890 --> 00:31:33.250 I, I, it's like something I would never think about, but like even just being asked that and being like, oh yeah, what do I think? 00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:37.690 Like, that's such a good way to kind of kick things off. 00:31:37.690 --> 00:31:39.220 So, yeah. 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:40.120 I love that. 00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:48.930 So kind of like, as we start wrapping up, for folks listening who are like, yes, Katie, you got me. 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:49.710 I love this. 00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:52.140 Like, I'm, I really wanna try something different. 00:31:52.530 --> 00:31:56.280 I like wanna, you know, maybe get outside of my comfort zone. 00:31:56.280 --> 00:31:58.650 But like, there's so many options, like mm-hmm. 00:31:59.280 --> 00:32:02.700 How do you usually tell people to kind of start. 00:32:03.045 --> 00:32:06.375 Like narrowing in, like, am I leaning more towards pants? 00:32:06.375 --> 00:32:09.285 Am I leaning more towards a dress, but a different neckline? 00:32:09.285 --> 00:32:11.595 Like how does, how do you, how does one even do that? 00:32:13.575 --> 00:32:16.845 I think there's a lot less options than you think. 00:32:17.235 --> 00:32:20.115 Mostly for gender fluid attire. 00:32:20.115 --> 00:32:29.955 Like I said, there's no, there's no prescribed process for finding gender fluid wetting attire like there is for a traditional fem like dress or a traditional mask. 00:32:30.645 --> 00:32:32.025 Tuck suit, what have you. 00:32:32.925 --> 00:32:36.675 And so things start to pile on top of each other. 00:32:36.675 --> 00:32:43.005 The limitations start to add up because there's like a budget limitation, which really eliminates a lot of options. 00:32:43.335 --> 00:32:58.545 Uh, there's a size limitation because when you're dealing with smaller budgets, your odds are you're not dealing with a custom measurement situation, which means like you're stuck to the standard measurements of the brand, which are. 00:32:59.040 --> 00:33:00.990 Most of the time, not inclusive. 00:33:01.800 --> 00:33:04.860 And then there's the whole, well, what color do you wanna wear? 00:33:04.890 --> 00:33:12.000

You know, that's when you, I mean, then there's also like, are you, are you disabled where you have to have a certain type of attire? 00:33:12.300 --> 00:33:12.690 You know? 00:33:12.970 --> 00:33:22.870 And like you get to a point where once you finally get to choose what you're wearing, you are at a very much smaller like pool of options. 00:33:23.635 --> 00:33:49.505 So I find it is actually really, really easy to narrow down what you're gonna wear because once you start having, once you start getting into the field of this is the universe of what I can choose from and have personal preferences from based upon all the things I can't control I think things start to make a little bit more sense, such as like, I want a cape, but all the capes are$4,000 and my budget is$2,000. 00:33:49.835 --> 00:33:51.875 Like, then you might be stuck with. 00:33:52.265 --> 00:34:02.165 Maybe we have to find one on Etsy or maybe we have to like find one resale and then you might have to like give on color because it's not necessarily, it's something that's in your budget, you know? 00:34:02.735 --> 00:34:07.325 And it's really just problem solving until you can find something that fits the bill. 00:34:07.325 --> 00:34:14.389 And I think that it's really tragic that there are not more options out there, because I think typical people, traditional people. 00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:18.320 Even the privileged people have have options. 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.059 They have all the options in the world. 00:34:20.420 --> 00:34:32.210 And so I just, I don't think there's, there's that much out there that is going to fit all of the intersections of those limitations. 00:34:32.780 --> 00:34:34.099 Oftentimes it's like. 00:34:34.730 --> 00:34:40.909 How do you maximize the amount of options that you have with all the limitations that you have And like, that's what I do, right? 00:34:40.909 --> 00:34:49.820 Like that's what I do, is I'm here to like give you all the resources to show you that there are more options so that you don't have to default to address when you don't feel comfortable wearing one. 00:34:50.030 --> 00:34:53.210 Or you don't have to default to a suit when you want something a little bit more feminine. 00:34:53.260 --> 00:34:53.950 That's what I do. 00:34:53.950 --> 00:34:55.210 I mean, I literally just. 00:34:56.515 --> 00:35:03.605 Research and research and research and try to find more and more and more in multiple different kinds of budgets so that people can have more options. 00:35:03.605 --> 00:35:05.375 Like, that's pretty much all I do. 00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:22.610 To answer your question, like if you had all the money in the world and you were optimally the size that people normally have and you didn't have any like disability that limited what kind of clothes that you could wear, what have you, right? 00:35:22.700 --> 00:35:24.440 And you had all the options in the world. 00:35:25.325 --> 00:35:39.155 I think the best place to start for finding

what you wanna wear is think about what you really find joy in, and not necessarily what kind of fashion do you find joy in, because I don't think a lot of people know the answer to that question. 00:35:39.525 --> 00:35:44.385 But like I, for example, find joy in like bright colors. 00:35:45.204 --> 00:35:51.619 But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna be like wearing bright colors at the wedding because I don't know, I wanna wear white. 00:35:52.474 --> 00:35:57.875 But my point is to start with the things that you really find inspirational, that you find joy in. 00:35:57.875 --> 00:36:08.164 I have a client who fi who, whose inspiration board is the intersection between Megan Rapino and David Bowie, and it's awesome. 00:36:08.375 --> 00:36:13.805 And like that Venn diagram like creating like. 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:19.849 The structure and the geometry and the, the, the silhouette of David Bowie. 00:36:20.150 --> 00:36:25.309 But adding onto like the, the style of Megan Rapinoe is actually so easy. 00:36:25.309 --> 00:36:28.730 It is so clear in my brain what that looks like. 00:36:29.070 --> 00:36:35.640 And that is like one of the easiest inspo words I've ever had to put together because somebody said, I'm inspired by these two things, which is. 00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:41.220 David Bowie and the structure of their attire and Meghan Rapinoe style. 00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:49.559 Granted, those are things directly related to fashion, but I also had someone give me a mood board that had like graphic design and paintings on it. 00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:57.150 That has nothing to do with fashion, but when you're conveying an emotion, there's a way to translate that into attire, and I think that's. 00:36:57.644 --> 00:37:07.965 If you have all the options in the world, I think you should probably get a stylist because it would be really challenging to translate what you love into fashion if you're not used to it. 00:37:09.375 --> 00:37:09.735 Yeah. 00:37:11.070 --> 00:37:14.670 So kind of starting out with a Marie Kondo approach, like does it bring joy? 00:37:15.630 --> 00:37:16.619 Oh, 100%. 00:37:16.680 --> 00:37:17.010 Yeah. 00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:23.519 I mean that, I think that is how you should approach everyday fashion anyways is like what really brings you joy? 00:37:24.010 --> 00:37:27.760 What doesn't push your, what pushes the boundaries without pushing your limits, you know? 00:37:28.325 --> 00:37:35.255 You don't wanna overstep your own boundaries, but you also wanna push yourself to like be challenged in your every day and like create new things. 00:37:36.125 --> 00:37:39.515 Really return to like the art, the things that moves, move you, you know? 00:37:40.190 --> 00:37:40.480 Yeah. 00:37:42.035 --> 00:37:42.095 Yeah. 00:37:42.715 --> 00:37:43.555 Absolutely. 00:37:43.825 --> 00:37:51.285 Well, so on that note I will be sure to share all of your information in the show notes, but how can people work with you? 00:37:51.285 --> 00:37:52.755 Where can people find you? 00:37:53.184 --> 00:38:00.625 I am on TikTok and Instagram at Portrait of a Bride on Fire and. 00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:10.300 The link in my bio will have my other relevant links, which will lead you to my website, my contact form, all the different things. 00:38:10.670 --> 00:38:22.099 But I just, I, uh, and I wanna say that having a, working with a stylist one-on-one is not the only thing that I offer because that's like obviously a really challenging thing to afford for most people. 00:38:22.579 --> 00:38:28.460 I really do work with other people's budgets and I can tailor a service to be like. 00:38:28.954 --> 00:38:32.015 Into your budget and make it work, make sense for you? 00:38:32.015 --> 00:38:37.985 Because I genuinely think that like you should not exclude people just'cause they can't afford your services. 00:38:38.315 --> 00:38:38.585 No. 00:38:38.585 --> 00:38:43.055 It's like, how do I think creatively about creating a service so that it works for both of us? 00:38:43.055 --> 00:38:49.265 Like I would, I'm really open to working with people, so if people, my prices are on my website, but again, that's just like. 00:38:49.450 --> 00:38:54.099 With one-on-one work that's not with tailored packages for making it work for other people. 00:38:54.099 --> 00:38:58.010 So, I just wanna remind people of that and. 00:38:58.980 --> 00:39:10.950 Also just tag me in anything you want me to see, because I would love to see your queer outfits and like your Met gala moments, and that would really bring me joy, so, oh, I love that. 00:39:11.190 --> 00:39:12.869 Oh my gosh, yes. 00:39:12.869 --> 00:39:13.800 Absolutely. 00:39:14.230 --> 00:39:16.450 Well thank you so, so much. 00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:19.510 It has been so fun chatting with you.