Miscarriage and Marriage: Helping Your Husband Grieve Pregnancy Loss Too의 전체 녹취록

00:04:50.480 I appreciate it. 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:52.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:04:52.240 --> 00:05:05.920 So uh, you know, often the the question that I get asked um from women is like, what is my husband experiencing during this miscarriage and uh and how how can I help him? 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:13.199 And one of the things that I like to remind men and women of is that we all we all grieve in very different ways. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:27.439 And often men I I I find are a little bit timid or afraid of experien of of expressing the grief that they're feeling around miscarriage because obviously their wife, the mother, has been, she's the one who's been pregnant. 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.240 Her body has gone through the process of getting pregnant, being pregnant. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:44.720 Now she's the one who's physically miscarrying this child, and her her body is going through everything that that accompanies that, which can be uh fairly painful and traumatic, uh, depending on the experience. 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:57.839 And and often fathers will feel like she's suffering so much that if I talk about my sadness or I talk about my grief, what I'm gonna do is I'm going to detract from her suffering. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:03.120 Um I'm gonna distract from it and make it make it feel like it's all about me. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:18.000 And often, you know, when I'm counseling couples who are walking through a miscarriage, I'm actually hearing the opposite from the wife, which is I feel like I'm grieving this alone because he's not saying anything. 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:19.519 It doesn't seem like he's sad. 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:28.480 And so and obviously, as I said, you know, every child has two parents, and you planned to celebrate the birth of this child together, raise this child together. 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:33.279 And so we want to learn how we can grieve the loss of this baby together. 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:33.920 Yes. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.439 Thank you for sharing that. 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:38.240 And so I'm just like, well, how do we do that? 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:49.279 So the thing that came to my mind is, you know, because I I want you to speak into this, because again, I did not do this well when we were walking through infertility and loss. 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.240 I did feel like I was by myself, right? 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:57.120 But my husband, from his perspective, he would always say, like, I just didn't know what to do. 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:03.920 I just didn't know how to, you know, and and I know men, like you guys want to fix it and you want to like make things right. 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.480 And so for him, he's like, I don't know how to fix this. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:13.199 Um, and so is it just creating a space of just inviting your husband in into that, right? 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:18.079 Of saying, like, yes, I'm grieving and I want to give you permission to grieve too. 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.439 You know, it's just like, how can we get that conversation started? 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:22.079 Yeah. 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:26.959 I appreciate you saying that, Nicole, and don't be too hard on yourself saying I didn't do it right. 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.720 No one trains us, no one teaches us how to go through a miscarriage. 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:36.639 It's not something that we expect, and it's not something that we know how to do until until we've walked through it. 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:50.319 And you know, I think part of it is like what you mentioned about men often wanting to be fixers, is when the miscarriage hits, uh, you know, the the mother, her body is going through this physical experience and these physical changes. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:56.160 And oftentimes the husband, the father, is he's he's thinking about the practical things that need to be done. 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:59.600 Maybe he he wants to make sure that his wife's comfortable. 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:03.680 Maybe he needs to take her to the doctor's office or pick up prescriptions. 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:11.839 If there's other children involved, there's kids that have to be taken care of, meals that have to be prepared, all the household stuff. 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:26.000 And so he's he's his mind often goes to what has to be done right now to take care of you know all the other things so that I can be kind of protecting and and caring for my for my wife. 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:52.320 And and I often try to remind husbands that almost all of those other things that are going on that you're worried about, there's often, and this isn't true of every couple, but there's often a lot of other people that could step in and help with those things, whether it's church or family or friends who can watch kids, who can pick up groceries, who can prepare meals, but you're the only one that can be a husband to your wife. 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.120 And you should prioritize being with her in that. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:09:05.279 I often remind wives that, you know, her immediate thought is going to, I'm I'm losing, we're losing this child, you know, that I'm that I'm miscarrying. 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:12.639 And and that's kind of hitting her immediately, whereas sometimes it's all those practical things that are hitting him. 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:14.960 He's worrying about is my wife okay? 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.120 Is she physically healthy? 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.960 Um, he's trying to figure out what he's supposed to be doing. 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:31.840 And what I'll find is is that often a couple weeks later, when maybe her body is recovering, she's beginning to re-engage in the normal routines of life. 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:37.360 That's when he starts to slow down a little bit and start realizing what's been lost. 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:42.000 I'm not gonna play catch with this boy that I thought I was gonna have in the

front yard, et cetera. 00:09:42.159 --> 00:10:05.360 And so I I encourage couples to just be patient with each other as they have different timelines for grieving, and to just, like you said, create that space to say, when you're ready to talk, I would love to hear what's going on inside of you, inside of your heart, what what hurts, what's confusing, you know, those those sorts of questions. 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:06.080 Okay. 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:07.679 That's good. 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:08.480 So good. 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:12.080 I'm just like, oh man, Eric, where were you? 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:16.879 I was probably walking through it at the same time, not knowing what I was doing. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:18.320 Yes. 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:29.360 Okay, well, maybe uh, you know, definitely want to, you know, just open this up for you of just like if there's something that, you know, you want to share just for the wife, right? 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:36.240 Like what are what are some things that we need to maybe know or be a bit more aware of? 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:42.399 I, you know, just what you first shared was amazing of you know, the timeline is different. 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.120 So really taking that into consideration. 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:48.639 So instead of being, I mean, I didn't do this. 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:55.200 I'm just kidding, I totally did this, you know, just like when we're walking through it, I'm like, honey, this is like, why are you not grieving? 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:59.679 You know, but these again fixing it, and then the grief is going to come later. 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:07.840 And so what else could we possibly just like maybe be aware of or maybe not so controlling? 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:16.240 Yeah, I think, you know, well, one thing I often say with miscarriages is if you've been through one miscarriage, you've been through one miscarriage. 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.159 They're they're all unique. 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:28.240 And every setting for each, you know, we've had four, and they were all unique in their setting and what happened, and we're all unique people in in how we grieve things. 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:45.600 And so I think for some dads, they need permission to verbalize their grief around the miscarriage because it's often thought of as a woman's issue because she's the one who's physically suffering. 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:52.879 And so to be able to say, uh, you know, my first book on miscarriage is titled Ours Biblical Comfort for Men Grieving Miscarriage. 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:58.159 And I didn't come up with that title, the the the publisher did, but I love that title, ours. 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:05.039 That to be able to say to him that this baby was ours, and we're we've lost this baby. 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.000 We're we're grieving this this baby together. 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:19.039 And uh I want you to know it's okay to talk to me about that, because it can be a really it can be a really lonely place for him to not know what he has permission to share. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:33.440 I think, you know, often mothers are gonna be the ones who remember, and I I tell fathers, write, write these things down, write down the the date the miscarriage occurred, write down the due date, because that's that's gonna be a significant date. 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:50.399 You know, there's gonna be all those sort of milestones that you're gonna hit after the loss of when the baby would have been born, when there would have been a first Christmas, a first birthday, and as wives to be able to I think you should feel permission to say to your husband, I'm thinking about the baby we lost today. 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:51.919 Today was the due date. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.919 Do you think about that? 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:55.919 You know, what do you think about that? 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:03.440 Because he might be thinking about it, but he might be thinking, I I don't want to say anything because I don't want to make her sad again. 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:09.440 And she's saying, I wish he would say something because I don't want to be sad by myself. 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:10.639 Yeah. 00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:11.519 Yeah. 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:13.759 Yes. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.759 Again, just speaking up and then just not being afraid. 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.799 So having that, my husband always tells me this of just like, I need to have five seconds of bravery. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:24.879 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.840 Allowing that, you know, for for each other. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.799 Yeah, yeah. 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.759 And then and then giving that space if he's not ready just to be able to say that's good. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:36.799 It's okay if you don't have words for this right now. 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:37.440 Yeah. 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.000 Yeah. 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:39.679 I love that, Eric. 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:45.440 And so right now I'm thinking of right, the husband. 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:55.519 And so what would you say to him, you know, just like in that moment where he's just like, my wife, like this happened right to us? 00:13:55.840 --> 00:14:00.240 Or he's maybe not even considering that, you know, of of the hours. 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:06.639 You know, and so what would you just say to him to encourage him and help him? 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:18.879 You know, I would remind you, Dad, that you are a dad, that this was your baby in your wife's womb, and that makes you a father. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:36.559 And you have lost a child, and you've lost a child in a way that is that might feel invisible, because that so often in a miscarriage you didn't get to see this baby, you didn't get to hold this baby, and but that doesn't make it any less of a loss. 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:58.000 And it's right for you to be sad about this, it's right for you

to grieve this, and the same way that you would not want to be an absent father with the birth of a living child, uh don't be absent with your wife as you grieve the loss of this child. 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.279 She needs you, and you need her in this moment. 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:09.519 So find those five seconds of bravery and don't be afraid of the awkwardness, but press into it. 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:19.440 Even if it's to say to the mother, I don't know what to say, and I don't know what to do, but I'm here with you. 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:22.639 That's a helpful thing. 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.399 So beautiful. 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.559 I'm like, there's no tears on the podcast. 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.519 Like, my goodness. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.360 Thank you for sharing that. 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:47.039 I I just know that that is gonna be, I think, uh such a blessing, you know, for one, for the wife to hear this, but I just I see her being like, hey, I want to play this part for you. 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:54.320 And so thank you for just again, kind of just creating space for that. 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:55.440 So I appreciate it. 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:56.399 Yeah. 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:58.240 That was really beautiful. 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:09.919 I think that we forget, right, that we're even though we've walked through a loss or a miscarriage, that you know, like we're still parents, you know, and so that is so important that you said that. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:10.480 So thank you. 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:32.639 You know, I think of the beginning of Luke's gospel, where we have Elizabeth who's pregnant with John the Baptist, and Mary who's pregnant with Jesus, and they meet each other, and the scripture says that the baby who was in Elizabeth's womb leapt, you know, in her womb at to be in the presence of of the Messiah. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:45.759 And and that word for baby um is the same word that's used later in Luke 2, where it says that um Mary took the baby and wrapped the baby in swaddling claws and and laid him in the manger. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:53.519 In in God's eyes, uh it he the Holy Spirit inspires the same word to describe what's in the womb as what's in the cradle. 00:16:53.759 --> 00:17:09.039 And uh and and I and I love the fact that Luke's gospel, I talk about this in my book Hours, but in Luke's gospel, you know, it opens with Zechariah and Elizabeth, this barren couple who weren't able to have children. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:12.960 But Luke notes that they were righteous according to the law. 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:18.319 Their infertility was not because of any sin on their part. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:20.960 They were a righteous, god-fearing couple. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:22.400 God saw them. 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:27.680 Like he God sees and cares about infertility. 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:32.319 God sees and cares about little ones in the womb. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:33.359 Yes. 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:42.480 The same way that later Jesus stands outside the tomb of his friend Lazarus, and he is the scriptures say he's troubled in spirit. 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.960 He's angry when he sees death because he hates death. 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.160 It's an enemy that he's come to overthrow. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:56.880 And when he's and when he thinks about his friend Lazarus in the tomb, it says he weeps because he's so sad about this loss. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:05.599 Being angry at death, weeping over the loss of a loved one, even a baby that you didn't get the chance to meet is not a lack of faith. 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:13.039 It's not sinful because Jesus felt that way and he was sinless, and he had perfect faith. 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:18.640 And these are things that our Savior Jesus sees and he cares about. 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:29.519 And and we know he died on the cross for our sins and he rose from the dead, destroying death, and uh uh he's making all things new. 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:49.440 And so, you know, this this experience of miscarriage is is uh a bitter thorn as we uh as we come face to face with death, and it's a good opportunity to remember our Lord who has overcome death. 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:51.200 And we trust in him. 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.799 He promises us that one day we'll be raised from the dead to live with him in glory, and every tear will be wiped away from our eye, and death will be no more. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:04.400 That's and that's um it's a beautiful opportunity to remember the gospel. 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:07.759 Thank you for sharing that. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.039 Yeah, amen. 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.000 It's good news. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.160 Yeah, oh yeah, yes, it is. 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.440 This is great news. 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:14.720 Eric, thank you. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:31.759 Well, will you please tell everyone just like I would love to kind of just like jump into your books really quick of just like how can you know everybody find them, find you, and just to be able to connect with you because I'm just like want to continue the conversation, right? 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:35.920 By just like reading more of your books and and being involved in what you're doing. 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:37.839 Well, I've written several books. 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.880 So my two on miscarriage are Dad's Hurt Two and and the book Ours. 00:19:43.200 --> 00:20:00.480 And uh, my very first book that your listeners might be interested in was called Worthy, Celebrating the Value of Women, and it traces the place of women in the storyline of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and that's co-written with Elise Fitzpatrick, and just and it's not written for women, it's written for anyone. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:06.000 I often tell men, you need to read this book because it's about how important women are in in the Bible. 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.799 But if you if you want to go to my website, it's shoemaker. 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.160 My last name is spelled S-C-H-U-M-A-C-H-E-R. 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.680 So it's it's spelled shoemacher, but you pronounce it shoemaker. 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:20.000 So emshoemaker.com, and uh it'll have a link to my books. 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.720 Or you can just find them on Amazon or any place that books are sold. 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:30.400 Would would love for for readers to take a look and uh let me know on on Instagram or on social media uh what you thought about them. 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.000 I I love to hear from readers and how God uses those resources. 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:34.880 Yes. 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:41.200 Well, Eric, we're gonna put all of those just in our show notes and everything so our listeners can have access to it. 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:48.240 But thank you so much for being on the podcast and just grateful for you and your story, right? 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.880 And thank you just for sharing everything that the Lord has done in your life. 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.079 And we're grateful. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:55.200 Thank you, Nicole. 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.319 It's been great to be here. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.119 Awesome. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:01.200 Okay, friends, we're gonna see you next time on the Purpose Beyond Motherhood podcast.