126. Why Open Source Bitcoin Mining Matters More Than Ever의 전체 녹취록

if you have a seven day window where you submit zero hashes. Right, okay. That's why I got, okay, was looking at the wrong one. Yeah, on the loyalty leader board, Schnitzel, 65 00:04:49.100 --> 00:04:51.100 for example, had rented 66 00:04:51.100 --> 00:04:54.460 over an Exahash for a period of time during our last 67 00:04:55.805 --> 00:04:57.485 telehash fundraiser. 68 00:04:57.485 --> 00:05:00.605 So he submitted a total of like 3.08 69 00:05:00.605 --> 00:05:02.925 zeta hashes to HydroPool, 70 00:05:03.005 --> 00:05:13.540 and he's maintained that position even though he only submitted that exahash for like thirty minutes or an hour, but he hasn't stopped hashing completely 71 00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:19.460 with at least one miner. So even if he's just got one bid axe pointed at the pool, he his 72 00:05:20.020 --> 00:05:21.700 his leadership 73 00:05:21.700 --> 00:05:29.045 position there stays at the top. He's got his four twenty two Giga Hash fish tank axe still going strong. 74 00:05:29.925 --> 00:05:31.205 That keeps Holding it up. 75 00:05:31.525 --> 00:05:40.169 That keeps him afloat there, right? And then we have difficulty, right, Eco? Another metric. Yeah. And then that's the one I skipped. So yeah, difficulty is 76 00:05:40.810 --> 00:05:42.090 who's 77 00:05:42.169 --> 00:05:45.370 gotten the closest to hitting that golden nonce. 78 00:05:46.169 --> 00:05:49.690 Electron has held that first place position 79 00:05:50.330 --> 00:05:51.050 since, 80 00:05:51.690 --> 00:05:52.490 was it May? 81 00:05:53.555 --> 00:05:58.675 Mhmm. Yeah, think that was in May, yeah during the telehash. So they got a 5,640,000,000,000 82 00:05:58.675 --> 00:05:59.475 difficulty 83 00:05:59.875 --> 00:06:02.675 and that's kept them in first place ever since. 84 00:06:02.995 --> 00:06:14.570 I like that it puts the worker name. You can see the electron worker name is just an IP address of that machine. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe dates would be good. Is that what you're saying, Scott? Yeah. Because I saw that 85 00:06:15.450 --> 00:06:24.235 megawatt was always quite lucky is in third place. I was curious when that happened. Was that during the telehash? I think that was telehash four, yeah, 86 00:06:25.115 --> 00:06:32.795 back in May of this year. Okay. This another reason why luck would be cool to have, right? You could see, you know, like, of course, electron got it because they were pointing like six 87 00:06:33.949 --> 00:06:34.990 exahash, 88 00:06:34.990 --> 00:06:50.375 but it'd be cool to see who is just ridiculously lucky and got a high difficulty with minimal hash or minimal time. Yep. I think that would be a good metric to have. And then in our chat, we were debating how to notate 89 00:06:50.375 --> 00:06:53.655 the values for the loyalty leaderboard, 90 00:06:53.735 --> 00:06:57.575 which was an interesting conversation. I've got a new proposal. All right. So 91 00:06:57.910 --> 00:07:11.015 I was originally proposing we use scientific notation

for the number of hashes, which maybe is both hard to understand and a mouthful to read live on the on the pod. But what if we instead of saying units like Zeta 92 00:07:11.095 --> 00:07:15.895 and Exa that no one really knows, what if we did instead of 3.08 93 00:07:15.895 --> 00:07:20.215 Zeta hash, we did 3,080,000? 94 00:07:20.215 --> 00:07:26.960 And just talk about everything in terahashes? Yeah. We just do million trillion. Keep it below 95 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:30.000 just keep stacking on, 96 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:32.560 what are they called, decades 97 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:33.280 that are 98 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:35.200 trillions, 99 00:07:35.465 --> 00:07:41.545 billions and millions. Yeah, because what occurred to me when we were having this conversation, there was, 100 00:07:42.025 --> 00:07:45.785 I think, three different ideas for how to present that number. 101 00:07:45.865 --> 00:07:51.625 And it occurred to me that all three of them really do become quite abstract 102 00:07:52.689 --> 00:08:13.805 the larger these numbers get. I was like, you know, my main complaint with the scientific notation was like, well, you know, I flunked out of math and don't know what, you know, 10 to the power of 22 means. So that isn't it doesn't really tell me anything. But at the same time, if it had just said quintillion, 103 00:08:13.965 --> 00:08:16.285 I wouldn't I don't necessarily 104 00:08:16.285 --> 00:08:17.725 know what that means either. 105 00:08:18.045 --> 00:08:19.430 Right. Quincyan, 106 00:08:19.430 --> 00:08:29.430 quadrillion, which one's more? Yeah. But scientific notation is easy. It's like if it's 10 to the 21, there's 21 zeros added to the end of the number. Yeah, but I don't know what 107 00:08:29.750 --> 00:08:54.240 what is that? I know that's a lot, but then I have, like anybody knows these numbers that large. Yeah. That's that's a good point. Right? So you only if you're looking at this, kinda have that rule of thumb that, like, million is six and billion is nine and trillion is 12, but that's yeah, it starts to break down pretty quickly when you get past that. Yeah, past a trillion, I'm just like, if it's a number larger than The US national deficit, 108 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:57.360 I'm just kind of at a loss. It makes me think when 109 00:08:58.640 --> 00:09:10.764 Bitcoin miners talk to you about their price of electricity in dollars per megawatt hour or Yeah. It's a weird Or they put hash price in petahash. I'm like, dude, that's how I know you're not a home miner. 110 00:09:11.404 --> 00:09:22.810 That's true. We need price per terahash and cost per kilowatt hour for it to be relatable. Although I imagine we'll eventually measure home miners and cost per petahash. And megawatts. 111 00:09:22.810 --> 00:09:26.810 That'd be awesome. Use megawatts at the home? Oh yeah. Megawatts at the home is 112 00:09:27.095 --> 00:09:33.015 that's a lot. That's the goal. That's the dream. Get those little like micro

reactors at home and be like, Oh yeah. 113 00:09:33.495 --> 00:09:37.095 Yeah. So check out the dash.256f.org 114 00:09:37.095 --> 00:09:47.330 and we'll probably continue to make updates to it. There were a lot of good ideas in the group chat this past week about gamifying it further. I'd like to see what the chances are 115 00:09:47.650 --> 00:09:52.525 of hitting a block in a day given the current hash rate at 116 00:09:52.685 --> 00:09:55.725 any given time on the dashboard. It's always a little disappointing. 117 00:09:55.805 --> 00:09:56.445 Maybe 118 00:09:56.765 --> 00:10:00.365 a year? Never show me the odds? Never show me the odds. 119 00:10:00.605 --> 00:10:01.325 Yeah. I 120 00:10:01.885 --> 00:10:09.010 think Public Pool has that though. Yeah. We could stretch it out to like, the odds look really good at 60, 121 00:10:09.010 --> 00:10:11.570 which is about what we have right now, 70 terahash, 122 00:10:13.010 --> 00:10:16.769 at hitting a block between now and the year 2140 123 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:21.250 when the last subsidy coin is paid out. 124 00:10:22.575 --> 00:10:49.274 I think we have a one in two chance at hitting a block by then. That'd be a fun metric. Chances of getting a Coinbase payout while there's still a thing. Yeah. While there's still the last coins? The last subsidy is gonna be in sats, but how many sats is it? This is a fun, tricky question, which I don't know the answer to. I know this answer can be derived, but I don't have it off the top of my head. I'm gonna guess 21 sats. Oh, that would be amazing. I don't think the math works out quite that well, but let's 125 00:10:49.675 --> 00:10:53.915 I don't think the math works out cleanly at all. Like, it had to be It doesn't. 126 00:10:54.075 --> 00:10:57.515 Hard coded, right? I think so. I'm gonna ask Chad GPT because 127 00:10:57.995 --> 00:11:01.435 that's just how we answer questions now. That's right. Yeah. 60 128 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:15.160 terahash, 73 terahash right now on the Hashdash, but we had a peak of four thirty terahash over the past week. Thanks to our friends at Riot over in Switzerland with their solar miner that is implementing Mugena. 129 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:17.085 They've been pointing their development 130 00:11:17.085 --> 00:11:32.730 systems as they build out this product to the Hashdash, which is cool. We can Very log kind, very generous of them to do that. Thank you. We appreciate all the support. Oh, it's one stat. All right, there we go. That does it. One stat? No way. Yeah. So is there gonna be a epoch 131 00:11:33.130 --> 00:11:36.330 prior to that that's paying out two sats per block? 132 00:11:38.490 --> 00:11:39.290 Yeah, 133 00:11:39.450 --> 00:11:41.945 I think so. Let's see. And then an 134 00:11:42.185 --> 00:11:46.585 epoch that's paying out four sats, eight sats, $16.32, 135 00:11:48.025 --> 00:11:51.705 and there must be. Yeah, it's two. I think it's just bit shifting. 136 00:11:51.945 --> 00:12:02.170

For four years, people are gonna be getting two sats per block that they mine? Yeah. That's wild. They could be very valuable. Or I guess the correct way to put that is for, what is it, 210,000 137 00:12:02.170 --> 00:12:11.545 blocks, people are gonna be getting four sats per block and then two sats per block and then one sat per block and then no more Coinbase or no more subsidy 138 00:12:11.545 --> 00:12:20.105 included in the Coinbase. Dang. Hope there's a lot of transaction fees. Right. Yeah. I hope people actually use Bitcoin on chain. That's a problem for tomorrow. 139 00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:27.200 Yeah. That is funny. I mean, yeah, if the Bitcoin price goes up enough to make that worthwhile, then I guess fees would also 140 00:12:29.040 --> 00:12:37.195 well, fees would have to be less than a sat. I mean yeah. And people are already doing, like, sub one sat fees on their transactions, 141 00:12:37.355 --> 00:12:39.274 so I think that'll continue. 142 00:12:39.435 --> 00:12:41.274 But according to mempool.space 143 00:12:41.274 --> 00:12:42.875 right now, less 144 00:12:43.995 --> 00:12:45.195 than 85,000 145 00:12:45.195 --> 00:12:46.074 transactions 146 00:12:46.074 --> 00:12:47.755 waiting to be confirmed, 147 00:12:47.755 --> 00:12:51.435 so for a global monetary system, I don't think that's 148 00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:54.420 a whole lot of usage. Very underutilized 149 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:57.060 network here in my opinion. The average 150 00:12:57.140 --> 00:12:58.020 reward 151 00:12:59.300 --> 00:13:00.020 is 152 00:13:01.060 --> 00:13:03.459 2,100,000 153 00:13:03.459 --> 00:13:05.714 sats over the last 144 154 00:13:05.714 --> 00:13:15.875 blocks in fees. Yeah above the block subsidy. Pretty thin margins for minors if you think about it. Not a lot of meat on that bone right now. No. Yeah did you see Safedine's 155 00:13:15.875 --> 00:13:21.490 article about how he has a hypothesis that we've seen the peak total 156 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:27.570 power or energy consumption of the Bitcoin mining network as a whole. Really? No, didn't see that. He thinks 157 00:13:27.810 --> 00:13:28.529 that 158 00:13:29.010 --> 00:13:34.065 energy consumption to run Bitcoin mining will go down from here? Or perhaps plateau, 159 00:13:34.065 --> 00:13:42.065 but yes, more or less that was the thesis of the article was that now that the large on grid miners are shifting to AI 160 00:13:42.144 --> 00:13:44.065 and as it trickles into smaller, 161 00:13:44.384 --> 00:14:01.405 more off grid energy sources that we might not see another, a new peak, a new all time high in total energy consumption used for mining. I don't necessarily agree just because I think we've all seen all the innovative ways you can integrate miners into different systems. But it's an I interesting 162 00:14:02.445 --> 00:14:08.205 haven't read the article, but I guess another factor to that would be the chip efficiency continues to 163 00:14:08.685 --> 00:14:12.445 get better. So less energy per terahash produced, right? 164 00:14:13.709 --> 00:14:18.029 Yeah, think the network hash rate, I don't think he was arguing that would stop increasing. 165 00:14:18.670 --> 00:14:20.350 I think there's that Cambridge 166 00:14:20.510 --> 00:14:22.029 Analytics dashboard, 167 00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:23.709 excuse me, that tracks, 168 00:14:23.949 --> 00:14:25.070 that estimates, 169 00:14:25.070 --> 00:14:33.375 like what percentage of global energy consumption is spent on Bitcoin that used to be a big FUD metric. Right. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm not saying that 170 00:14:34.175 --> 00:14:37.295 I wasn't bringing that up to point out the hash rate. It was that 171 00:14:38.575 --> 00:14:45.639 to maintain current hash rate levels, if efficiency keeps getting better would require less energy. That's true, yeah. 172 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:47.320 The Bitcoin price 173 00:14:47.800 --> 00:14:48.360 the 174 00:14:49.079 --> 00:14:52.519 block subsidy reward, right, those also play into it. 175 00:14:53.079 --> 00:14:56.040 Well, and then, you know, everyone's going to be using Ripple, 176 00:14:56.365 --> 00:14:57.725 so like why 177 00:14:58.285 --> 00:14:59.885 even bother with Bitcoin? 178 00:15:01.885 --> 00:15:06.205 I can't even keep a straight face. When I read that article from SAFE, I 179 00:15:06.845 --> 00:15:11.430 immediately thought, man, I think a lot of people's perception 180 00:15:11.430 --> 00:15:51.930 about what mining is and what mining isn't is purely based off what Bitmain tells you a miner is. And we talked about this at the event we were at together a couple weeks back now in San Francisco where people have in their head that a miner is this shoebox. Right? And it's like if someone said, Hey, computers will never fit in your hand. They'll never fit in a laptop. They're just always going to be room sized things and there's only so many rooms on earth that can fit a computer this big. It's like, Well, at the end of the day, a miner needs to do what? Just like issue new coins, settle transactions and secure the blockchain from double spend attacks. So I think that could come in various shapes and sizes. Can you guys still hear me? 181 00:15:52.625 --> 00:15:56.145 Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got a weird notice on my screen. Sorry. 182 00:15:57.185 --> 00:15:59.745 But yeah, don't assume my fucking gender. 183 00:16:04.225 --> 00:16:13.800 No, I'm joking, but like, yeah, why do they get to define what a miner is? Like, we can do that too. And I think we are doing that at the two fifty six Foundation. 184 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:25.995 We're changing what that definition is. I mean, like, at a certain level, a miner mines Bitcoin. Like, that's what we're talking about here, right? But beyond that, why does it have to be this fucking shoebox 185 00:16:25.995 --> 00:16:30.715 that Bitmain produces or that What's Miner produces? Like, it doesn't have to be that. 186 00:16:31.410 --> 00:16:34.610 And it doesn't have to

be purpose built for 187 00:16:34.850 --> 00:16:36.370 a warehouse setting. 188 00:16:37.329 --> 00:16:44.850 It can take many different forms, and we're figuring out that it requires an open source 189 00:16:45.625 --> 00:16:47.545 foundation of solutions 190 00:16:47.785 --> 00:16:50.425 to make that sort of technological 191 00:16:50.585 --> 00:16:57.545 development happen. Yeah. It's just taking the current status quo and extrapolating it forward into the future, 192 00:16:57.865 --> 00:17:00.185 Not taking into account new developments 193 00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:05.750 and new use cases and things which, I guess, we're well aware 194 00:17:05.910 --> 00:17:06.870 are If 195 00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:18.075 you talk to people in the oil field who are capturing flared gas to mine Bitcoin and ask them, like, what is your ideal 196 00:17:18.155 --> 00:17:21.595 Bitcoin miner? They're probably gonna have a much different answer 197 00:17:21.675 --> 00:17:22.315 than 198 00:17:22.795 --> 00:17:31.739 someone who has a solar panel on the roof of their home that's trying to capture excess energy and monetize it into SATs. 199 00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:32.299 And 200 00:17:32.860 --> 00:17:36.460 a Bitcoin miner can be both of those answers, 201 00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:38.860 but we need to know 202 00:17:38.925 --> 00:17:46.365 what those look like and make it happen and develop it. I think that development only happens when 203 00:17:46.445 --> 00:17:59.919 the whole stack is broken open into these open source solutions that we're building. So this is kind of like a shameless plug for the two fifty six Foundation and you can donate at 256foundation.org 204 00:17:59.919 --> 00:18:00.639 but 205 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:07.225 yeah, I think that's where this is going. A 100% and that's how, if you're a new listener, 206 00:18:08.105 --> 00:18:13.065 that is how Eco and Rod when founding this organization identified the core 207 00:18:13.145 --> 00:18:23.600 pillar projects of our foundation, the hash board reference design, control board reference design, open source firmware and open source mining pool instance because those are, as I framed them, 208 00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:41.325 I put an article out on our website and a video I recorded following a fundraiser we did last week or two weeks back, where these are the domain specific building blocks that make up a Bitcoin miner. You need those things to mine Bitcoin. They can come in different shapes and sizes, right? But you need those things to mine Bitcoin to run that part of the protocol. 209 00:18:41.965 --> 00:19:00.860 And who knows what that's going to look like? That's why we need to just put the open source building blocks out there and say, Okay, go do, like go build your thing and see what works and see what doesn't work. Then who knows ten, twenty years from now what the status quo of a Bitcoin miner will be. When you say computer nowadays, people probably think laptop. Don't think giant room 210 00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.340 sized 211 00:19:01.705 --> 00:19:07.625 vacuum tube machine. Well, and to give credit where credit is due, Scott was 212 00:19:07.705 --> 00:19:08.665 instrumental 213 00:19:08.665 --> 00:19:10.505 in helping define 214 00:19:10.665 --> 00:19:19.240 what those four areas were going to be for the foundation. You know, Rod and I had identified that like, we want to build a business in Bitcoin mining. 215 00:19:19.320 --> 00:19:21.240 Doing it with closed source 216 00:19:21.800 --> 00:19:36.034 shoebox miners really sucks and is not tenable. If it were open source technology, we could modify these things to fit our unique business model and really get some juice out of it. So we knew that much, 217 00:19:37.075 --> 00:19:49.870 but what that really meant and really defining what we're going to do about it, that came over a number of months when Rod and I had started the foundation and got a little bit of help from our friends at Foundry 218 00:19:50.110 --> 00:19:51.550 and HeatBit 219 00:19:51.550 --> 00:19:52.990 and HRF. 220 00:19:53.255 --> 00:19:55.975 We had started the Ember One project and I knew 221 00:19:56.855 --> 00:19:59.175 that we wanted to work with Scott on 222 00:19:59.575 --> 00:20:00.934 We knew, 223 00:20:01.175 --> 00:20:05.015 all right, we need to have an open source hash board, so let's start there. 224 00:20:05.335 --> 00:20:08.250 Scott was the first guy that we approached, 225 00:20:08.410 --> 00:20:15.210 and then over the next several months, Scott and I were meeting every week developing the Ember one, and in our discussions, 226 00:20:15.770 --> 00:20:27.575 that's really where these other areas where things became much more clear. And it was like, well, if we're doing this hash board, we're really going to need a control board to talk to it. We're really going to need a firmware 227 00:20:27.655 --> 00:20:28.215 to 228 00:20:28.775 --> 00:20:30.294 interface with everything. 229 00:20:30.615 --> 00:20:34.054 I was like, yeah, and we should have a mining pool. 230 00:20:34.535 --> 00:20:37.655 And I also had this idea for a dashboard 231 00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:38.480 thing, but 232 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:44.720 we ended up letting go of that one. But that's really where those four ideas came from. 233 00:20:45.120 --> 00:21:08.770 And if it weren't for Scott, I'm not sure I would've had that clarity. It's so fun to dig into this stuff and be like, oh my gosh. Like, this is how it comes together. And these are the pieces. And, like, it's hard, but it's not that hard. We can make these things. And then, of course, we were lucky enough to solve the block at the first telehash, and I was like, all right, let's fucking go. Yeah, it's an amazing story. It's even more amazing to think that 234 00:21:09.570 --> 00:21:17.250 one of the core functions of the Bitcoin protocol is reliant entirely on a permissioned technology stack. Yeah, it's bullshit. 235 00:21:18.765 --> 00:21:48.895 I

don't think people really realize that. No. I don't think they do. And I've been thinking more about it too because Scott, you had this idea. You brought up a really good point when we were prepping for the fundraiser was, you know, it's not really in a company's best interest all the time to just give away all of their IP and innovation and release the source to everything, or at least this is how they think in some ways. They want to keep it to themselves, It's their competitive edge. It's their special sauce. But the interesting thing about Bitcoin mining is that it started open source. There were commoditized building blocks for computers. Open source 236 00:21:49.535 --> 00:21:54.175 operating systems exist like Linux, right? There are various vendors and suppliers. It's a natural 237 00:21:54.175 --> 00:21:57.455 healthy ecosystem that went through its own quirks 238 00:21:57.780 --> 00:22:00.580 as personal computing manifested. 239 00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:03.540 But it's just funny that when Bitcoin was released, 240 00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:08.179 the permissioned nature of the tools you needed for mining was not the case. 241 00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:10.180 And then it evolved into 242 00:22:10.955 --> 00:22:11.755 ASICs, 243 00:22:11.755 --> 00:22:13.914 which then a few companies seized 244 00:22:13.915 --> 00:22:19.034 the competitive edge on and then closed it. And I don't know of another instance where that's happened, 245 00:22:19.195 --> 00:22:22.394 where a project kind of started open, then its natural evolution 246 00:22:22.475 --> 00:22:31.909 from an efficiency standpoint, a technology standpoint, a performance standpoint led to it kind of getting the door closed on it. My dad always tells me this story. I guess the guy that invented the sewing machine 247 00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:33.029 was 248 00:22:34.070 --> 00:22:34.629 very 249 00:22:35.670 --> 00:22:41.174 well, he did he did very well for himself because he didn't patent the sewing machine. He patented the needle, 250 00:22:41.815 --> 00:23:09.295 which is the, like, critical part to making a sewing machine work because they have to, like, use two different, like, spools of thread from the top and the bobbin on the bottom and, like, hook it together with the needle. And that was the key part. Right? And so patenting that made it so that no one else could make a sewing machine. But, you know, patents run out. People people move on. And so now anyone can make a sewing machine. Right? It seems like early on in these technologies, you have people who are investing a lot of time and money, 251 00:23:10.095 --> 00:23:10.815 you know, 252 00:23:11.375 --> 00:23:21.295 basically by their lonesome to to develop these things. And so they keep it private so their competitors don't get the edge. But then, you know, it it's a fantastic invention, 253 00:23:21.295 --> 00:23:31.070 and lots of other people, it changes the world and lots of other people want to work on this. And so then these things tend to open up. I mean, think also personal computers, 254 00:23:31.230 --> 00:23:34.349 when they first started, when it kind of got out of the mainframe 255 00:23:34.669 --> 00:23:35.710 in universities 256 00:23:35.710 --> 00:23:40.125 and businesses then personal computers started. It was also very proprietary, 257 00:23:40.125 --> 00:23:43.645 and every different company made their own OS. 258 00:23:43.965 --> 00:23:47.805 And then it kind of coalesced into a couple proprietary 259 00:23:47.805 --> 00:23:48.684 OSs. 260 00:23:48.765 --> 00:23:54.450 And then now we're seeing, you know, it's obviously essential to human progress, 261 00:23:54.929 --> 00:23:55.409 and, 262 00:23:55.809 --> 00:23:58.529 you know, it's it's it's wide open for the better. 263 00:23:58.770 --> 00:24:11.405 I think it kinda speaks to Bitcoin mining just being early. But things technology moves very fast now. Like, it increases at an exponential rate here. So I think the rate in which we'll see these things get developed, 264 00:24:11.405 --> 00:24:23.379 proprietary, and then open up, that, like, whole, like, timeline is is just dramatically shortened. Yeah. It's I had an interesting conversation with Schnitzel this morning about the Libra board, 265 00:24:25.139 --> 00:24:26.580 which we've 266 00:24:26.580 --> 00:24:28.820 started actively working on again. 267 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:36.894 And one of the things he was saying is that a few months ago when we were doing Revision three earlier in the year, 268 00:24:37.535 --> 00:24:45.455 we were using AI to help us do that. And one of the things the AI told us to change in the way the USB was configured 269 00:24:46.870 --> 00:24:48.710 seemed totally fine at the time. 270 00:24:49.669 --> 00:25:05.794 But then we found out there was some kind of problem. There was something going on, and we were trying to identify it. So now that we're actively working on it again, and it's been a few months, he pointed AI at the same problem again, and AI had identified 271 00:25:06.515 --> 00:25:10.595 that there was a issue in that USB 272 00:25:10.595 --> 00:25:11.315 configuration 273 00:25:12.810 --> 00:25:15.770 that AI wasn't able to identify, that AI, 274 00:25:16.330 --> 00:25:19.690 in fact, incorrectly instructed us to do 275 00:25:20.010 --> 00:25:25.210 just a few months ago. So just in a few months, AI went from telling 276 00:25:25.210 --> 00:25:25.690 us 277 00:25:26.515 --> 00:25:29.154 incorrectly how to put this USB 278 00:25:29.235 --> 00:25:36.595 controller on there to now telling us, identifying that that is incorrect and telling us how to do it a different way now. 279 00:25:37.155 --> 00:25:44.889 So cool. It's just the development is just breakneck speed with this stuff. Well, what's also interesting there is AI feeds off data 280 00:25:45.290 --> 00:25:45.850 and 281 00:25:46.250 --> 00:25:53.690 relatively Bitcoin mining compared to everything else that AI is trained on. There's not

that much information out there. Our foundation, 282 00:25:54.010 --> 00:25:56.730 the people in OSMU and heat punks, home tinkerers, 283 00:25:56.975 --> 00:25:58.895 people hacking miners are 284 00:26:00.175 --> 00:26:19.910 putting that data out there in real time. Right? And so in just a few short months, like there might be way more available for an AI to scrounge from the internet and learn about how Bitcoin mining works. So I'm sure you'd see some rapid changes in what what's going on too, which is fun. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's that's huge. Right? I mean, before, 285 00:26:20.790 --> 00:26:31.754 I mean, in the before times before AI was really useful, right? You could Google something like how does the BM thirteen sixty six mining ASIC work, and there was just nothing. Right? 286 00:26:32.154 --> 00:26:39.899 Absolutely nothing. And now you'll get a ton of results as how to do it. And even better is the AI is aware of those results, 287 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:45.260 and you can actually just it it blows my mind to just have, like, a cohesive 288 00:26:45.260 --> 00:27:03.104 conversation with an AI chatbot where it knows the intricate details of how these mining ASICs work. Right? And it it got that because of what this community made. Right? Like, AI is not going to hook up a logic analyzer to the ASIC and figure out how it works. Right? Mhmm. It got that because someone did it and posted it. 289 00:27:03.745 --> 00:27:04.065 So, 290 00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:08.040 yeah, it's This is exponential progress. The 291 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:20.075 very basic principle in computing that the computer only knows what the user is inputting into it. Like, that principle is still true today, like even with AI. Like yes, 292 00:27:20.475 --> 00:27:21.514 AI can like 293 00:27:24.154 --> 00:27:25.114 deduce, 294 00:27:25.595 --> 00:27:28.715 you know, use reason and like draw conclusions 295 00:27:28.715 --> 00:27:33.340 and infer things from the information that it's given, But like that 296 00:27:33.740 --> 00:27:37.659 information has to be provided to it in the first place. It doesn't have 297 00:27:38.860 --> 00:27:42.460 the basic human experiences that we all have. 298 00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:49.364 Yeah, I mean, that's that is a really good argument for the necessity of something like two fifty six Foundation 299 00:27:49.445 --> 00:28:07.380 to be out there and to be supported and long lasting is to keep, you know, sort of doing that original research and publishing it and connecting the dots, putting everything out there so that then people can take, you know, their engineering staff armed with their AI tools and just start 300 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:15.974 working forward instead of reverse engineering and start making those connections and getting done what they want to do in Bitcoin mining. And it further 301 00:28:16.294 --> 00:28:17.254 reinforces 302 00:28:17.255 --> 00:28:35.119 using community tools as well. If you solve something, you know, write a blog post on the two fifty six Foundation forum because some AI is gonna find that, scrape it, learn from it and save someone else a lot of time. So just having the community infrastructure is also helpful. Indeed, yeah. Because a lot of times these, you know, these chats, 303 00:28:35.120 --> 00:28:51.835 signal chats you might have with your homies while you're working on this stuff, like that's not, you know, getting part of the the public record. So, you know, posting this stuff out there is is really helpful for builders. I found this AI tool that just scrapes old Nissan and Toyota forums and Nice. 304 00:28:52.870 --> 00:28:53.509 And 305 00:28:53.909 --> 00:29:04.549 reads old service manuals from the dealers. And it's just got an API endpoint, and it knows absolutely everything about my truck. And it's amazing torque specs. I'll be like, what's the torque spec of this random nut? 306 00:29:04.870 --> 00:29:18.585 And it's like, here you go. Take a picture, you're like, what's this? Yeah. How tight does that need to be? Yeah. Oh man. But they had extensive documentation and they had the community sources for decades where people added their own information, their own hacks, tricks, whatever it may be 307 00:29:19.465 --> 00:29:21.090 and it's absolutely 308 00:29:21.090 --> 00:29:28.370 accelerated the way these tools are available to help people in niche, in otherwise what would be niche things, 30 year old Nissan trucks. 309 00:29:28.850 --> 00:29:40.034 Yeah. It exists. Such a good idea too because there's always been repair guides for for vehicles. Right? But if you've ever tried to, like, do anything based on one of those alone, it's always they just skip steps, 310 00:29:40.195 --> 00:29:52.509 and they're like, oh, yeah. Putting it back together, just do everything in reverse. And it's just it's so easy to get lost. And so hence, these forums come up where people are, like, actually dealing with the real issues. Yeah. Well, and and a lot of those 311 00:29:53.070 --> 00:29:54.669 there's just a lot of, like, 312 00:29:55.870 --> 00:30:03.215 you know, mechanics specifically. Like, that's been my wheelhouse for my whole adult life. And it's there's just a lot of, like, 313 00:30:06.015 --> 00:30:08.494 knowledge, like foundational mechanical 314 00:30:08.575 --> 00:30:09.455 knowledge 315 00:30:09.455 --> 00:30:10.095 that 316 00:30:10.495 --> 00:30:15.695 one would possess when they're, like, reading those manuals. So it's it's kind of similar to, like, 317 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.000 GitHub repositories. 318 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.639 When you look at a GitHub repository for a project, 319 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:21.840 the developer 320 00:30:21.919 --> 00:30:30.164 has written the software and the readme page has some real basic instructions on how to get it working. But unless 321 00:30:30.485 --> 00:30:32.724 you are experienced 322 00:30:33.205 --> 00:30:34.884 doing development and 323

00:30:35.284 --> 00:30:37.365 pulling in repositories 324 00:30:37.365 --> 00:30:38.004 and 325 00:30:38.245 --> 00:30:54.979 entering stuff in command line, there's so much detail that's kind of lost in translation there. But if you're just a complete novice and you've never used command line and you just follow the instructions in the readme file step by step, it's like you just, 326 00:30:55.539 --> 00:30:56.259 you can't 327 00:30:56.740 --> 00:31:06.475 do it because there's just certain steps that it's like you would only know if you've done it before. The field knowledge, yeah. Yeah, so like for example, if the command says 328 00:31:07.595 --> 00:31:13.195 enter this prompt and then it's got the brackets and it says your IP address. 329 00:31:14.540 --> 00:31:15.740 Someone who's 330 00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:27.145 never done this before is literally gonna copy that text string and put it in the command line and be like, why am I getting this fucking error? I'm doing what it says to do. They 331 00:31:27.145 --> 00:31:37.225 just don't know any better. So it's the same thing with mechanical stuff. It's like there's just some really basic knowledge that one would need to possess to be able to use that manual 332 00:31:37.385 --> 00:31:37.945 to 333 00:31:38.345 --> 00:31:39.305 make a repair. 334 00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:54.460 And there's, like, a lot of that stuff just isn't really spelled out in the step by step guide. Like like when you like, it never tells you, like, make sure you buy a second 10 millimeter socket because you're going to lose your 10 millimeter socket. 335 00:31:55.100 --> 00:31:55.420 Like, 336 00:31:56.595 --> 00:31:58.515 you know, shit like that. So 337 00:31:59.395 --> 00:32:01.315 sorry for the background noise. 338 00:32:01.875 --> 00:32:05.154 I'm gonna make my dog shut up. Yeah. It's called charm. 339 00:32:05.155 --> 00:32:06.835 Chatwithcharm.com. 340 00:32:07.235 --> 00:32:11.155 Verified OEM automotive data, 1982 to 2013. 341 00:32:11.155 --> 00:32:18.809 Amazing. Amazing. I wanna do that. I wanna do that. It's always so frustrating working on old cars not being like a seasoned mechanic. 342 00:32:18.890 --> 00:32:27.014 It's just like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, to change your remove your transmission, it's just these like four easy steps. Well, and stuff changes, right? Like 343 00:32:27.495 --> 00:32:28.215 the 344 00:32:28.455 --> 00:32:29.575 manufacturer 345 00:32:29.575 --> 00:32:30.615 recommended 346 00:32:30.695 --> 00:32:32.134 transmission fluid 347 00:32:32.375 --> 00:32:40.059 from 1995 is not the same anymore. And if you get the wrong one, it might eat away and disintegrate the synchros in your gearbox, right? 348 00:32:41.420 --> 00:32:42.860 And thank God someone 349 00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:47.740 wrote a forum post about how it nuked their transmission when they poured the wrong transmission fluid in 350 00:32:49.005 --> 00:32:50.684 And so that's value 351 00:32:50.845 --> 00:33:03.239 of

these types of platforms for community knowledge, field knowledge to be shared. So if you are new to 256 or a veteran tinkering like I'm thinking of iX Tech for example, he's doing some cool stuff with Magina. 352 00:33:03.320 --> 00:33:13.559 Contributing PRs and issues on the code base is great, but then if you've got some field knowledge, that's another thing that would be excellent to put on the forum. On that point, did you know the 353 00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:15.480 brake fluid specifications 354 00:33:15.934 --> 00:33:19.054 are all backwards compatible but not forward compatible? 355 00:33:19.375 --> 00:33:25.934 No. So for example, if your vehicle calls for DOT three specific brake fluid, 356 00:33:26.095 --> 00:33:51.424 you can use DOT five specific brake fluid in your vehicle. However, if your vehicle calls for DOT five brake fluid and you use DOT three rated brake fluid, you may have problems because of that. Good to know. There you go. Thanks for tuning in, folks. Especially when you roll into the store and they don't have DOT three because it's like some esoteric one that you know, it's just not available. 357 00:33:51.585 --> 00:33:53.184 Right? Right. It's 358 00:33:53.184 --> 00:34:05.320 pro tips. I just realized I wasn't supposed to be putting ethanol gas in my truck for the past 10,000 miles. I fucking hate ethanol, dude. I go to a non ethanol gas station now, is super expensive, but, 359 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:10.600 yeah, it erodes ethanol erodes old rubber compounds, it will just destroy your fuel lines. 360 00:34:12.245 --> 00:34:17.765 My conspiracy is they're trying to get old cars that they can't track off the road. You know what's fucked up is the 361 00:34:17.765 --> 00:34:18.965 Dodge Ram 362 00:34:18.965 --> 00:34:19.925 2,500 363 00:34:19.925 --> 00:34:23.205 for a number of years has been using a 364 00:34:23.365 --> 00:34:24.005 soy 365 00:34:24.165 --> 00:34:24.725 based 366 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:27.920 product in their fuel lines that 367 00:34:28.640 --> 00:34:43.635 squirrels can detect and they will go and like chew on these fuel, they'll go crawl into the parked vehicle and chew up these fuel lines because they're attracted to the soy product. It's genius. We're going to use fuel to grow corn to then turn corn 368 00:34:43.795 --> 00:34:44.915 back into fuel 369 00:34:45.234 --> 00:34:47.475 for vehicles that need fuel. Makes I perfect 370 00:34:48.035 --> 00:34:51.315 swear to God, the whole 10% ethanol thing was 371 00:34:51.635 --> 00:34:55.200 SIOP from big corn agriculture. 372 00:34:55.200 --> 00:34:58.240 And they were like, We need the government to mandate 373 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:32.319 that they're using this stuff so that there's always a need for our product. I mean, they've always been looking for uses for corn, right? That's how we got corn syrup and stuff. Right? Because they subsidize the hell out of corn in this country. And then they're like, ah, but it kinda sucks to just straight up give the farmers money. So, like, what can can we do anything with this corn? Totally. Just make things that are bad for cars, bad for humans. Yeah. It'll be great. Awful. But good for money printing. Good for money. What else is going on in Bitcoin mining? Let's see. Do we wanna talk about the fundraiser and what we did? Yeah. Yeah, we should. I alluded to it a couple times. We had the whole team together. 374 00:35:32.975 --> 00:35:36.975 I posted a photo it's in that article right up on 256foundation.org 375 00:35:36.975 --> 00:35:43.615 but we were all fortunate enough to get out to San Francisco two weekends ago now for a fundraiser 376 00:35:43.615 --> 00:35:50.980 in person fundraiser we held for open source mining along with our friends at Localhost Research. Shout out to them, big supporters. 377 00:35:51.220 --> 00:35:57.300 Huge shout to them. Huge shout them and huge shout out to the Presidio Bitcoin venue and team there, 378 00:35:57.700 --> 00:36:08.965 Alex and Hayley at Spiral and those folks. We got to turn it into a multi pronged trip. We went a couple of days early so that we could attend the Open Source AI Summit, which was also fascinating and relevant 379 00:36:09.285 --> 00:36:11.845 to what we're working on per Eco's little tangent there. 380 00:36:13.770 --> 00:36:14.810 But yeah, the 381 00:36:15.450 --> 00:36:51.910 structure of the event was awesome. We got to give an intro. Eco talked about kind of the pain points that he also mentioned on this pod of home mining and how that led to the foundation of an organization and bringing on the initial team and now what we're at with our projects and our vision for building these open source building blocks. Then I really like the workshops, so I'll hand it off there so Scott can talk about his, but we broke out into workshops with all of the project leads and kept people engaged instead of just scrolling on their phone in front of us talking for two hours. Yeah. That came from that idea came from localhost, right? It did. I thought it was really cool, right? And as opposed to just endless presentation, 382 00:36:51.910 --> 00:36:56.230 we kind of well, we did a sort of Tyler did a fantastic overall 383 00:36:56.744 --> 00:36:57.785 presentation. 384 00:36:58.345 --> 00:37:06.585 Eric Hirschman did a fantastic overall presentation for everyone. And then we split everyone up and Eco sorry. Eco did Eco kicked it off with a fantastic presentation. 385 00:37:06.664 --> 00:37:09.865 Kinda get the the rock stars up there. But then we divided 386 00:37:11.240 --> 00:37:16.920 everyone up into, into groups and into smaller groups, and we kinda went off into 387 00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:18.920 more or less smaller, 388 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:20.680 presentations, 389 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:25.000 but little bit more discussion format with, questions and things like that. 390 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:27.315 So that everyone could get a 391 00:37:27.795 --> 00:37:29.955 dive

into the individual projects 392 00:37:29.955 --> 00:37:32.035 from the the leads on those. 393 00:37:32.515 --> 00:37:33.075 And, 394 00:37:34.755 --> 00:37:38.515 Justin did one for for fiber, for local host. 395 00:37:38.755 --> 00:37:40.035 I did one for 396 00:37:40.299 --> 00:37:41.740 Mugena and 397 00:37:41.740 --> 00:37:46.060 sort of the the open source reverse engineering of electronics. 398 00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:48.540 And 399 00:37:49.339 --> 00:37:52.380 Schnitzel and Ryan and Jungly all did one for 400 00:37:53.835 --> 00:37:54.795 LibreBoard, 401 00:37:54.795 --> 00:37:57.115 Mugena, and HYDRApool respectively. 402 00:37:57.595 --> 00:38:12.580 And it was really cool. I mean, we I think we each did three times. Right? We each did our presentation three times. And but it was by no means, the same thing over. It was kinda dependent on who was in the room and kinda what the vibe was and answering questions and 403 00:38:12.660 --> 00:38:14.420 just going deeper 404 00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:15.060 on 405 00:38:15.380 --> 00:38:16.340 why 406 00:38:16.819 --> 00:38:17.940 specifically 407 00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:20.420 two fifty six is important in mining, which 408 00:38:21.295 --> 00:38:25.535 as we're finding out, isn't isn't super well understood. 409 00:38:26.575 --> 00:38:31.215 You know, we all talk to each other about this all the time, and so we're very convinced that this is important. 410 00:38:31.775 --> 00:38:41.760 And so it was nice to, you know, have a receptive audience of people who may or may not known this and get to talk about it and present why why just why it's so important for this, 411 00:38:42.560 --> 00:38:43.360 technology 412 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:52.855 that we sort of we all know and love and really think is essential in Bitcoin and and how this plays into the work that we're doing. And, of course, a plea for 413 00:38:53.175 --> 00:39:03.860 a plea or a a cause made a a case made for for why it should be supported going forward. Yeah. It was That's a it's a good recap. Great recap. And at least for me 414 00:39:04.340 --> 00:39:05.620 it reinforced 415 00:39:05.620 --> 00:39:12.980 through some candid feedback we got during the event or at the dinner after the fact which is like, oh I finally understand what two fifty six does 416 00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:16.660 or I finally understand how these four projects like interlink 417 00:39:16.515 --> 00:39:18.194 and why I they love all have to happen in 418 00:39:19.154 --> 00:39:24.355 seeing the light bulb turn on when people are like, oh, I get it. And it never 419 00:39:24.835 --> 00:39:32.410 ceases to amaze me that like so many of those people have like been in our orbit for a long time. And 420 00:39:32.970 --> 00:39:37.370 where I thought this stuff was well understood, it's like when I see those 421 00:39:37.610 --> 00:39:39.450 light bulb, those moments, 422 00:39:39.450 --> 00:39:40.890 I'm like, Man, 423 00:39:41.930 --> 00:39:48.255 they're just now getting it. I'm so glad that they've arrived, and I appreciate it so much. But 424 00:39:49.055 --> 00:39:51.855 I really thought I made this point clear 425 00:39:52.175 --> 00:39:56.255 when I talked to them about it a year ago or two years ago. It 426 00:39:57.855 --> 00:40:11.360 helps me try to figure out how to communicate this stuff better, I think is key because it never ceases to amaze me that despite all the communication around it, a lot of people just don't, they just don't get it. Well, it's complicated. 427 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:12.640 I think it's 428 00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:14.160 not well documented. 429 00:40:15.714 --> 00:40:21.635 A lot of people, if you're not into Bitcoin mining, you're like not into it at all, right? Right. 430 00:40:22.355 --> 00:40:25.155 Then to Scott's point, we talk to each other about this 431 00:40:25.555 --> 00:40:32.680 and so it may seem in our bubble that yeah, this makes perfect sense. Everyone must get it, right? Yeah, We're in an echo chamber. 432 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:34.360 For the 433 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:36.920 millionth time, 434 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:42.040 we do not sell bid access. Scott is not our slave manufacturing 435 00:40:42.040 --> 00:41:06.380 bid access in that room behind him. Yes. Yes. It is a it is a weird concept. I don't even sell bid axes. It's weird. It's weird that I get a lot of, you know, people see my hat or something and they're like, oh, you work for bid axe? It's like, I do indeed work on bid axe quite a bit, but it's not a company and I don't sell them. Yeah. So to not put a bow in it, to tie it all together, and it was mentioned earlier in this pod, 436 00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:17.755 the narrative we gave at this event that was successful in helping unlock people's understanding was eco talked pain, pain, pain. I wanted to do X, Y, and Z. I found out Bitcoin's permissioned, 437 00:41:17.835 --> 00:41:43.915 banging my head against the wall. Bitcoin mining's permissioned, hard to do what I wanted. There's no open source building blocks. Okay, let's form a foundation around it. Let's get some funding. Let's bring in the domain expertise like Scott and the rest of the guys to architect and define these core projects that are those domain specific building blocks. What does not exist, what's not commoditized, what there's no open source references on in Bitcoin mining. And that's the hash board control board firmware and mining pool instance. 438 00:41:43.995 --> 00:41:53.995 Together they make like a dev kit. If you want to make any type of Bitcoin mining system that happens to mine Bitcoin, but it can also plug into other things, right? Our dev kit happens to work as a suvi. 439 00:41:54.590 --> 00:41:55.790 Shout out to Ryan. 440 00:41:56.270 --> 00:42:16.455 Then these are the projects that you would scale up, modify, fork, change to your liking. And that's the point of our foundation. And then we're simultaneously starting to build up. We just talked

about community infrastructure and forums and education, this podcast, newsletter, traveling to events, workshops, etc. The ecosystem that nurtures open source projects to gain this 441 00:42:17.095 --> 00:42:19.975 snowball effect where you have community contributors 442 00:42:19.975 --> 00:42:28.280 building on top of it. And that's how you get to that status quo like happened in computing with Linux. Yeah, we need the open source 443 00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:38.315 solutions we're building to become integral parts of technology stacks built on top of this stuff so that the profitable 444 00:42:38.315 --> 00:42:39.115 businesses 445 00:42:39.115 --> 00:42:45.195 that sprout out of that can give back to the two fifty six Foundation if they want to 446 00:42:45.435 --> 00:43:13.605 create this flywheel effect where it's like these tools are being used to support business models that we haven't even thought of yet, some that we know about but know that could be made a lot more efficient and better. And those businesses are making their operations so successful that they're able to fund the open source foundation that made their tooling possible in the first place. I liked your analogy, Tyler. Like, if you wanna start your aircraft company, 447 00:43:13.845 --> 00:43:14.325 can 448 00:43:14.965 --> 00:43:15.765 aluminum 449 00:43:15.765 --> 00:43:24.140 is out there, right? The recipe is out there. You can just go get it. Maybe you need to specifically tailor it to your application, but aluminum is pretty well understood. 450 00:43:24.619 --> 00:43:37.020 Imagine if you had to go figure out how to get aluminum out of its ore and produce it and mine it and all that stuff just to, like, build your your widget. It would take a lot longer. Yeah. Thanks. That analogy has 451 00:43:37.865 --> 00:43:51.704 helped me and I received some good feedback on it. The recipe analogy, that's really what open source is. There's different licenses that you can attribute for CoffeeLeft, right? So that people are always getting credit or we're building and improving the recipe over time, right? 452 00:43:52.430 --> 00:43:57.950 Instead of just forking it off into a million different directions or hiding your secret ingredient, right? 453 00:43:58.750 --> 00:44:00.990 But the recipe analogy 454 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:21.550 does I think really dumb it down to help understand where there's no recipe for how to make a hash board and talk to ASIC mining chips. There's no recipe for a control board that has all the different IO you might want on it so that you can make your mining system do whatever you want. There's no recipe for an open source firmware that you can verify, inspect, modify, 455 00:44:21.870 --> 00:44:28.510 add features to, build upon. And there's no recipe for an open source mining pool with direct from Coinbase payouts, 456 00:44:28.990 --> 00:44:31.070 proper share accounting, aggregating, 457 00:44:31.070 --> 00:44:54.160 and splitting rewards. So together you have the full recipe for a Bitcoin miner. And we are trying to say back to the beginning of the pod, that doesn't have to just be the shoebox. It might be. Maybe that's the most popular form factor. Who knows, right? But up until today the recipes haven't existed for anyone to go make the next dish that happens to mine Bitcoin. I think it's not going to be shoe boxes. 458 00:44:56.560 --> 00:45:13.315 Yeah, we can do so much better. I know if the industrial miners like shoe boxes. No, don't think they do. Feel like the industrial miners definitely hate their customers. You don't think that publicly traded billion dollar companies like duct taping cardboard between different form factor 459 00:45:13.790 --> 00:45:16.590 aluminum chassis rigs on shelves from 460 00:45:17.710 --> 00:45:18.590 Uline 461 00:45:18.750 --> 00:45:54.030 or whatever it is. Dude, like, they they have to hate their customers in order to subject them to the crap that they're selling. Yeah. Right. I mean, I think it's just like they make it absolutely as cheap as possible so they can lower the price of them and profit the most. And it's just like, here you go. Here's what you get. There's no competitors, so have fun with your Bitcoins. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to take whatever we give you. Good luck. Every generation like has a completely different form factor than the previous. I mean, don't need to go through all the pain points, but like what a shit show. Yeah. To say the least. Exciting time to be. Yeah. It was really helpful to have, 462 00:45:55.395 --> 00:45:59.475 you mentioned it Scott, but Eric Hirschman from Gridless there giving 463 00:45:59.475 --> 00:46:00.755 insight to 464 00:46:01.555 --> 00:46:03.155 actual mining operations 465 00:46:03.155 --> 00:46:13.360 in what would be described by a large publicly traded miner as like a non typical setup because they're off grid, they have much different power available, 466 00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:31.125 they have much different climate conditions and air quality conditions and all these things that they really feel the pain of these machines that were almost designed for clean data center style rooms which they might not have I access love that photo he shows where the Watts Miner is like completely filled with bug guts. 467 00:46:31.525 --> 00:46:32.085 Yeah. 468 00:46:33.605 --> 00:46:39.690 But yeah by definition the machines they use should probably look different than the machines used in a pristine 469 00:46:39.770 --> 00:46:58.525 hydro cooled data center connected to the grid run by a large publicly traded company. Right. Yeah, I mean just like, you know, if I want an economical vehicle to run to the grocery store and back, that's probably going to look a lot different than the vehicle I use to transport 470 00:46:58.525 --> 00:47:03.645 a large quantity of freight across the entire country, right? That's 471 00:47:03.645 --> 00:47:05.245 a good analogy. There's 472 00:47:05.245 -->

00:47:08.070 different platforms for different use cases, 473 00:47:08.309 --> 00:47:08.790 and 474 00:47:09.510 --> 00:47:13.510 we're just not there yet with Bitcoin mining, but we've definitely seen 475 00:47:15.109 --> 00:47:17.750 mean, hats off to all the pioneers 476 00:47:17.750 --> 00:47:20.095 that have just figured out ways 477 00:47:20.415 --> 00:47:25.055 to use these crappy shoebox miners that have been produced by Bitmain and WhatsMiner 478 00:47:25.055 --> 00:47:36.210 to use those in ways that they're not meant to be used to sustain business models the way that they happen. I mean, it's like if you understand this stuff, it's just and appreciate it, it's just astounding 479 00:47:36.210 --> 00:47:39.570 what people like Eric Hirschman have done at Gridless. 480 00:47:39.970 --> 00:47:42.530 Just to think that we could have 481 00:47:43.970 --> 00:47:46.850 a miner that's designed specifically for 482 00:47:46.850 --> 00:47:48.610 their unique business application, 483 00:47:50.395 --> 00:47:51.755 Just 484 00:47:51.755 --> 00:47:57.675 think of how much they could turn up the juice on their operations if they just weren't fighting the technology, 485 00:47:57.914 --> 00:47:59.195 if it was being 486 00:47:59.674 --> 00:48:07.650 used, leveraged in their advantage. So now that we had this successful narrative according to the feedback from the fundraiser earlier in the month, 487 00:48:08.289 --> 00:48:14.289 I think we got to keep polishing and fine tuning it so that this narrative clicks with the ASIC manufacturers, 488 00:48:14.289 --> 00:48:17.755 the vendors, right? I don't think we've cracked that really. 489 00:48:18.395 --> 00:48:20.155 Some folks individually 490 00:48:20.395 --> 00:48:21.595 at various companies, 491 00:48:22.235 --> 00:48:28.235 my personal experience is like the marketing people get it but they have no control over anything. They're just like, oh that makes sense. 492 00:48:29.020 --> 00:48:29.820 Yeah. 493 00:48:30.620 --> 00:48:39.500 So Yeah. And it's tough because usually, like, the people you're talking to are, the salesman, right, who are they're amicable. They wanna please everybody. 494 00:48:40.060 --> 00:48:42.955 You know, that's in their nature as the 495 00:48:42.955 --> 00:48:45.355 face of the company and a sales representative. 496 00:48:45.355 --> 00:49:00.420 So when you talk to them, it's really easy to get the impression that you think they understand what you're saying, but that's kind of their whole shtick, that that's their job is to make you think that they understand you and appreciate you and are listening to you because that's how you, in turn, give them money. 497 00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:01.620 But, 498 00:49:01.859 --> 00:49:05.700 like, you know, talking to other people deeper down in the organization, 499 00:49:05.700 --> 00:49:06.580 like the engineers, 500 00:49:07.515 --> 00:49:08.714 it's 501 00:49:08.714 --> 00:49:17.035 becoming apparent that some of them have been

pulling their hair out because they recognize these issues and they know exactly what we're trying to do. 502 00:49:17.755 --> 00:49:22.369 So I think we'll get there, but we're talking about completely 503 00:49:22.450 --> 00:49:30.050 turning a narrative upside down that's been very, very deep rooted in this industry for a very, very long time. 504 00:49:31.010 --> 00:49:35.515 So it's not going to be easy work. I think we're up to the task. We're not going away. 505 00:49:36.155 --> 00:49:37.115 Sometimes 506 00:49:38.795 --> 00:49:43.355 the funding is there and things are good and sometimes the funding is thin and 507 00:49:43.835 --> 00:49:51.970 we're not making quite as much progress as we want to be, but we're chipping away at this stuff. And we're going to make it happen slowly but surely. It's tough because 508 00:49:52.369 --> 00:49:54.210 these chip manufacturers, 509 00:49:54.609 --> 00:49:55.410 they 510 00:49:55.410 --> 00:50:06.825 obviously are spending a lot of money to design and develop and produce those chips. And I think a few of them would very much like to to sell to to get a couple, 511 00:50:07.065 --> 00:50:09.625 you know, multimillion dollar orders for chips. 512 00:50:10.665 --> 00:50:16.470 I think they would be happy to sell chips if, orders like that came through, but there isn't that, 513 00:50:16.870 --> 00:50:19.750 that, like, groundwork there to support 514 00:50:19.990 --> 00:50:38.755 to to support a company getting to the point in which they could place a multimillion dollar order for chips. Yeah. Right? So it's like this chicken and the egg because they're like, we wanna sell a million dollars worth of chips to one group, but there's no groups to sell a million dollars of chips to because they can't get them because no one wants to sell less than a million dollars. So We should 515 00:50:39.395 --> 00:51:19.430 Two of these can bootstrap that. We should get Alex from HeapIt on the pod because I think he's the one example of a company that is probably at scale large enough to inquire with an ASIC vendor and say, Hey, we can probably order enough where you're going to even be willing to talk to us. Our mining systems look different. They do different things, right? Because the Canin Home miners, they are the ASIC vendor. They make them. But Heatbit, I think is the only instance of like large scale production of Bitcoin mining systems that use ASIC chips from other vendors, Right? And he's brute forced that. So that would be a really fun discussion to have because I agree. I think we all agree that there's this chicken and egg problem. The tools don't exist for those companies to do the prototyping, 516 00:51:19.430 --> 00:51:33.765 the R and D to come up with the next system design. It can be done, but I think there's a lot of capital and extra effort required to do it the way Heatbit has done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does seem like pulling teeth sometimes to just get a handful of ASIC samples 517 00:51:33.925 --> 00:51:39.670 because you gotta prototype this thing and you gotta do a lot of that before you get to a place where you're gonna order $10,000 518 00:51:39.670 --> 00:51:57.285 worth of chips, much less a million dollars worth of chips. So if we can we can get there, and I think you're exactly right. I mean, a Heatbit is a fantastic example of a company building mining products from scratch. Right? They're not they're not taking s 19 hash boards and reusing them. 519 00:51:57.684 --> 00:51:58.964 They're 520 00:51:58.964 --> 00:52:00.725 actually building these systems 521 00:52:00.805 --> 00:52:15.920 from scratch, which is is what I think we're gonna see a lot more of in the future, I hope. Mhmm. But they're they're they are there now. Yeah. Cool. Cool to get Alex on the pot. What else is going on? Well Bitmain seems to have identified the heat reuse market or at least 522 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:31.165 Oh, yeah. I saw that. Right? What was going on there was like Bitcoin Asia in Hong Kong and then there was some world mining summit thing where Bitmain announced the next chip of the pro version of the S23 or something. And out of that event came 523 00:52:31.405 --> 00:52:34.125 a handful of slides and quite a bit of time 524 00:52:35.270 --> 00:52:36.070 dedicated 525 00:52:36.070 --> 00:52:49.510 to heat reuse, the ant rack selling heat. So selling even them, right, as the ASIC chip manufacturer and also the system manufacturer, the system being the shoebox miner, they're now like broadening the scope of 526 00:52:49.785 --> 00:52:52.184 what they're selling, what they're productizing, 527 00:52:52.184 --> 00:52:56.185 what they're offering to include the heat as a core tenant there. 528 00:52:56.665 --> 00:53:00.265 It'd be fun to see like all the different ASIC manufacturer 529 00:53:00.265 --> 00:53:01.145 announcements, 530 00:53:01.145 --> 00:53:03.385 like how much time is spent talking about heat reuse 531 00:53:04.359 --> 00:53:08.840 over over the years? I think as as, you know, the Bitmens of the world 532 00:53:09.640 --> 00:53:11.960 start getting out of their essentially, 533 00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:14.680 you know, take it or leave it shoebox designs, 534 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:19.435 if they are, you know, forced to to open up a little bit. Right? Like 535 00:53:19.835 --> 00:53:24.155 Yeah. If if you are a heating district in 536 00:53:24.155 --> 00:53:39.200 Finland or whatever and, know, like, the government's involved and you're gonna buy this big massive minor heat reuse box. Right? Like, you're probably not gonna be as down with this sort of, like, here's our shitty API. Like, good luck. 100%. 537 00:53:39.200 --> 00:53:53.065 You need it to interface with your, like, Modbus network or whatever you got going on there. And you probably also wanna have some assurances as to the, like, safety and security of the firmware, which we know from another project of ours is is not really up to snuff. 538

00:53:53.865 --> 00:53:56.345 You know, it's like That's putting it lightly. 539 00:53:56.985 --> 00:54:00.600 Yeah. You're so right, Scott. When I saw that announcement, 540 00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:04.520 they will just have a slide of a Bitmain, whatever, hydro. 541 00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:15.095 Sure, different markets have three phase power, I won't dog on that. We don't have it in North America in residential applications. But it's like a residential picture of a miner heating a house. And I'm like, Okay, wait a second. 542 00:54:15.495 --> 00:54:18.135 Not to toot my own horn here, but I'm 543 00:54:18.135 --> 00:54:25.815 pretty sure it's more complicated than that. I have a whole summit that I host every year about that. I'm pretty sure 544 00:54:26.610 --> 00:54:50.734 it has to behave like a heating system, like a boiler, like a furnace, right? And that is inherently different than running a full time mining operation in your house. And no one can answer questions about that. They're just like, oh, you just dump the heat outside. That's the control. The control is the dry cooler outside. I'm like, Okay, We're talking about two different things. Yeah. You're not supposed to poke holes in their sales narratives, Tyler. Apparently, it's simple. Apparently, I was overthinking it. I shouldn't have wrote that stupid book. Yeah. Overachiever. 545 00:54:50.734 --> 00:54:50.975 Yeah. 546 00:54:52.359 --> 00:55:07.635 But yeah, that alludes to like the big gap there. We're talking about controlling mining systems in different integrated energy appliance settings where you really do need all the knobs available to you on a firmware level, right? Or all the connections, 547 00:55:07.715 --> 00:55:10.915 be it digital or physical to connect to other infrastructure 548 00:55:10.995 --> 00:55:21.700 to control that system, how it should behave. And we know, as Scott mentioned and EcoSmart that the Red Team program that we're now putting some resources towards and Schnitzel's been diving deep into. 549 00:55:22.100 --> 00:55:23.140 Aren't these Things are 550 00:55:24.260 --> 00:55:30.180 heating up, people. Stay tuned on the edge of your seat. We'll have more announcements soon. Yes. 551 00:55:30.740 --> 00:55:32.020 There's definitely been 552 00:55:32.625 --> 00:55:38.385 some big findings. I know we said we were gonna release the results of the the red team, 553 00:55:38.945 --> 00:55:41.745 I don't know, a month ago or almost a month ago, 554 00:55:41.985 --> 00:55:46.225 and we haven't yet done that. We've that is because there have been a lot of findings, 555 00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:47.320 and 556 00:55:47.560 --> 00:55:55.000 we need Ten days ago. Ten days ago. Ten days ago. Okay. Alright. Time's flying. Yeah. We wanna make sure we're doing this right, 557 00:55:55.319 --> 00:55:56.440 and we 558 00:55:56.440 --> 00:56:05.075 are actively working on it. So soon, TM. Yeah. If we just if we had just found, you know, some kind of BS, 559 00:56:05.155 --> 00:56:06.755 like, it wouldn't be 560 00:56:07.075 --> 00:56:09.795 you know, we we would have we would have shared 561 00:56:09.795 --> 00:56:15.810 everything we found so far. So, you know, it's gotta be good because we're not saying shit about it. So 562 00:56:16.210 --> 00:56:21.010 Well, of the vendors have asked us to coordinate with them and give them some extensions as well. 563 00:56:21.890 --> 00:56:40.475 So we're following that good practice for responsible disclosure, but yeah, some interesting stuff. To say the least. It is definitely strange to be red teaming something that's not open and open source. Just reliant on them replying to your email? Yes. It's more like penetration testing, I guess, which traditionally companies will hire you to test their own product 564 00:56:40.635 --> 00:56:43.434 and do penetration testing. Well, they're more than welcome to donate to us. 565 00:56:46.770 --> 00:56:54.290 Yeah. One can hope. What kind of companies would do penetration testing? Would that be like a Red Hat thing? I imagine that a lot of the people that do that go 566 00:56:54.850 --> 00:56:59.415 oh, I was thinking of Black Hat, the convention. But no, think it's like, 567 00:57:00.055 --> 00:57:01.735 security firms, 568 00:57:01.735 --> 00:57:06.295 right? There's there's several, like, security contractors out there that you can hire, 569 00:57:06.455 --> 00:57:19.430 you know, and and companies will hire them and they usually have setups where, like, you know, we're not gonna tell you anything about our network break in and we promise we won't, like, you know, try and put you in jail for breaking into our network, that kind of thing. 570 00:57:19.750 --> 00:57:20.470 I see. 571 00:57:20.870 --> 00:57:22.390 And there's actually a 572 00:57:23.510 --> 00:57:25.670 really cool podcast called The Darknet Diaries. 573 00:57:26.165 --> 00:57:28.805 Yeah. I love that podcast. It's really good. 574 00:57:29.365 --> 00:57:33.285 Shout out, Darknet Diaries. Jack Resider. Yes. Love that. 575 00:57:33.685 --> 00:57:40.880 He talks a lot about about this and the various things that have been found and experiences they've had doing that. 576 00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:45.520 And, you know, the these security researchers are amazing. They'll do all kinds of things. 577 00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:48.160 They will do social engineering 578 00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:49.119 and, 579 00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:51.280 you know, like hacking, 580 00:57:51.280 --> 00:58:00.775 computer hacking, and everything to try and get into these networks. And, of course, now with AI and deep fakes, you know, you can impersonate employees, and they just go And, all 581 00:58:01.335 --> 00:58:02.455 yeah, I mean, 582 00:58:02.935 --> 00:58:12.900 secure networking is hard. Yeah. Shout out If it were easy, everybody would do it. I remember Tesla like having competitions like hack into our cars. Yeah, totally. Well, overall 583 00:58:13.460 -->

00:58:19.140 awesome fundraiser event. I think it was helpful for us as a team and as individual 584 00:58:19.220 --> 00:58:22.705 grantees working on these projects to be together 585 00:58:22.785 --> 00:58:31.665 all in the same room for a couple of days, refine our narrative that we talked about. I'm so glad everybody made it out there. That was the first time we've all been together since, 586 00:58:32.785 --> 00:58:34.904 was it May 587 00:58:34.904 --> 00:58:36.065 2025? 588 00:58:36.065 --> 00:58:40.410 Yep. For TEMS, Texas Energy and Mining Summit in 2025, 589 00:58:40.410 --> 00:58:41.290 Telehash two. Yeah, 590 00:58:42.250 --> 00:58:51.530 great to see everybody. It was really fun. We've got such a rad team. I just, I don't know, the new ideas and the things we come up with just hanging out is fantastic. 591 00:58:52.315 --> 00:58:53.755 And the coolest part is like, 592 00:58:54.475 --> 00:59:01.915 mandate is to share all these things with as many people as we can. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely go check out the write up on 593 00:59:02.235 --> 00:59:04.475 the website 256foundation.org 594 00:59:04.475 --> 00:59:09.130 if you're curious to hear more about how that event went. I did record like a forty minute 595 00:59:09.849 --> 00:59:24.585 more thorough version of my presentation from that exact event if you want to go see that breaking down how the foundation is structured and why we're doing what we're doing and how it fits into dismantling the proprietary mining empire, which means building the open source commoditized 596 00:59:24.585 --> 00:59:28.025 building block based status quo of the future. Right. 597 00:59:28.505 --> 00:59:34.190 And we're always looking for donations, hence the fundraiser. So if you're so inclined, 256foundation.org 598 00:59:34.190 --> 00:59:45.310 for that too. Check it out. You did a great job at the fundraising event and I know having the space and time to get a little bit more in-depth with that presentation 599 00:59:46.905 --> 00:59:49.945 is a good thing. Definitely check it out. 600 00:59:50.745 --> 00:59:51.225 Understand That 601 00:59:51.705 --> 00:59:59.065 the foundation. Yes, 100%. Tyler did a fantastic job. So did everyone coming together and putting together stuff for that event. 602 00:59:59.465 --> 01:00:05.840 Tyler mentioned that we went to the Open Source AI Summit, which was in the days immediately preceding our event, also in the Presidio, 603 01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:15.040 which was amazing. That was that was a very cool event. And it was it was really cool, I think, interesting to see the parallels 604 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.120 that Open Source AI 605 01:00:17.815 --> 01:00:32.375 Yes. Is is sort of working through that we've been working through for maybe just a little bit longer with, open source mining. Right? There's this whole drama right now where the the frontier labs are basically 606 01:00:32.700 --> 01:00:39.100 trying to get regulated by the government in a supposed attempt to squash their competition. 607 01:00:39.260 --> 01:00:48.380 Right? And then there's this this thought that, you know, if they succeed in that, that that AI could become much more regulated and not available to as many people. 608 01:00:49.235 --> 01:00:52.755 And that's actually definitely what will happen with regulation. 609 01:00:53.075 --> 01:00:53.715 Yep. 610 01:00:54.115 --> 01:01:00.035 And so they're they're kind of there's a lot of talk about the open source AI and these these open weight models 611 01:01:01.020 --> 01:01:01.820 and, 612 01:01:01.820 --> 01:01:05.020 you know, how that how that is, 613 01:01:05.580 --> 01:01:07.260 you know, going to be essential 614 01:01:07.260 --> 01:01:12.860 for people who rely on this technology to get done what they wanna do. Right? Sounds a lot like Bitcoin. 615 01:01:13.180 --> 01:01:24.335 Yep. So I I thought that was neat. Wanted to be like Sam would be like, we're working on the same thing. This is really cool. And there was some Bitcoiners in attendance. We're we're, like, ringing the open source bell. 616 01:01:24.815 --> 01:01:29.990 Over here. Over here. Over here. Now everyone's talking about the open source bell over there with AI, 617 01:01:30.070 --> 01:01:33.590 which is good to have people interested in understanding 618 01:01:33.670 --> 01:01:37.030 of open source technologies and the freedom it provides and permissionlessness. 619 01:01:37.270 --> 01:01:38.550 But we can't forget about 620 01:01:38.870 --> 01:01:59.350 core pillar of Bitcoin mining protocol, the Bitcoin protocol. Yeah. Yes. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people, ourselves included, who really, really rely on AI at this point. Right? And to have the government come in and be like, you know, you can't do that anymore because someone could do something bad with it would would just be 621 01:01:59.910 --> 01:02:02.550 hugely detrimental to to progress 622 01:02:02.790 --> 01:02:05.590 Yeah. And, you know, freedom. I mean, there's 623 01:02:05.590 --> 01:02:09.750 there's cases where people are using this technology to really fundamentally 624 01:02:09.750 --> 01:02:10.630 improve 625 01:02:10.790 --> 01:02:11.990 their freedom 626 01:02:12.435 --> 01:02:12.995 and 627 01:02:13.555 --> 01:02:19.795 to have that be denied because someone could do something bad with it just would would be terrible. Right? Yeah. 628 01:02:20.035 --> 01:02:30.060 I think it was funny timing. The day of our event, which was Saturday the twelfth so the day after the open source fundraiser or open source 629 01:02:30.220 --> 01:02:31.660 AI event concluded 630 01:02:31.740 --> 01:02:33.180 was when Dario 631 01:02:33.180 --> 01:02:38.140 and Sam Altman and Elon all chimed in and were all like yeah maybe we should be regulated 632 01:02:38.775 --> 01:02:49.655 And then Trump was just like, shut up nerds. Keep building. It's so ridiculous, dude. That is the right response, man. They they've just been

doing all this sketchy stuff to show 633 01:02:50.055 --> 01:02:53.860 how bad their technology is, which is really weird. 634 01:02:54.500 --> 01:03:01.140 But it makes sense when you figure they want to get this regulation that only they could comply with. Yeah, they want regulatory moats. 635 01:03:01.220 --> 01:03:03.460 That's the objective here. That's 636 01:03:03.460 --> 01:03:06.580 the objective. Yeah, that whole What was it like? 637 01:03:08.135 --> 01:03:09.255 OpenAI, 638 01:03:09.255 --> 01:03:17.895 like, accidentally their AI went rogue and hacked Hugging Face? Yep. Yeah. Give me a fucking break, dude. I mean, it's come out now that they basically 639 01:03:18.055 --> 01:03:26.180 didn't put any any stops on their AI. And so, like, of course, it it didn't break out. It just, you know, did what it did. 640 01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:26.980 Yeah. 641 01:03:27.380 --> 01:03:28.020 And 642 01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:44.135 then they're like, woah. This is the danger of AI. It's like, you know, yeah. Your your gun can definitely kill someone if you point it at them and pull the trigger. Like, it's just Yeah. It's a false flag event is what that was. Yeah. Yeah. So keep your head on a swivel, people, 643 01:03:44.775 --> 01:03:46.295 and stay 644 01:03:46.295 --> 01:03:52.330 vigilant. Ask your AI how Bitcoin mining works. See what you learn. Highly recommended. Do that. It's 645 01:03:53.530 --> 01:04:09.345 the, it's really good at explaining that stuff now, which is awesome. Or point it to the IP address of your miner, little Bitaxe or whatever home miner you have. Right? Just poke around. Yes. Just poke around. You can learn a ton really quick. Like it's never been easier to learn how this stuff works. Then 646 01:04:10.385 --> 01:04:20.190 keep the party going and learn how to make it better. I've learned a lot over the last couple of days dumping that what was the file I dumped from the BidX? The NVB? 647 01:04:20.190 --> 01:04:22.190 Oh, yeah. That's the non volatile storage. 648 01:04:22.910 --> 01:04:23.789 NVS. 649 01:04:23.789 --> 01:04:24.910 Yeah. NVS. 650 01:04:24.910 --> 01:04:26.270 Yeah. So that was like 651 01:04:26.829 --> 01:04:30.990 you're just very, like, nonchalantly in the chat. We're like, oh, yeah. Just 652 01:04:31.309 --> 01:04:34.725 put put in this command and dump the the nvs 653 01:04:34.805 --> 01:04:36.085 dot bin file, 654 01:04:36.725 --> 01:04:44.085 and, you know, let me know what's in there. And I'm like, okay. Cool. So, like, I go and sit down to do it, and it, like, dude, it took me hours to get there, 655 01:04:44.829 --> 01:04:55.390 and I I never should have told me. I I was, like No. No. No. I I had to mansplain this to Eko. Like, here's the command. If you have any problems, you could ask me. 656 01:04:55.869 --> 01:05:01.955 No. I had to I had to figure it out on my own. I wasn't gonna let you down. So I, like, I was determined, 657 01:05:02.275 --> 01:05:06.275 and I think it I think it took me, like, two, maybe three hours. 658 01:05:07.155 --> 01:05:11.235 I may have made that sound a little more dramatic than it actually was. But, 659 01:05:11.635 --> 01:05:15.315 like, I had never even connected a Bidax over USB before. 660 01:05:16.710 --> 01:05:23.190 So, like, I was like, okay. What the fuck am I doing? How does this I so I've got, like, some very basic information 661 01:05:23.270 --> 01:05:31.430 from that I can glean from Scott's, like, one sentence in the chat, and then I used AI to help me, like, fill in the blanks. 662 01:05:32.415 --> 01:05:33.135 And, 663 01:05:33.855 --> 01:05:37.215 yeah, like, I installed the the Bidax tool 664 01:05:37.935 --> 01:05:42.415 and was able to connect and communicate with the Bidax over USB 665 01:05:42.895 --> 01:05:45.540 and get it to dump that file. 666 01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:54.180 And, like, everything was awesome. And then I, like, sent the file to you. And then immediately afterwards, I'm like, I wonder what was in that file. I should, like 667 01:05:56.355 --> 01:06:01.235 so I, like so that was, like, a whole another thing to, like, make it readable in, like, human 668 01:06:01.635 --> 01:06:08.675 readable format. But I figured that out and then, like, saw what was in there. I'm like, oh, that's my SSID 669 01:06:08.675 --> 01:06:29.605 for my home Wi Fi network, and there's my fucking password in plain text. That's weird. And then, like, I'm like, oh, there's, like, all the SSD and passwords I've ever connected this Bidax to. I'm like, holy shit, man. I'm like, okay. So then, like, I think probably the the the third hour of that endeavor was just updating my Wi Fi SSID 670 01:06:29.605 --> 01:06:34.885 and password and then reconnecting all the devices in my house. That is a good good exercise. 671 01:06:35.445 --> 01:06:36.245 It 672 01:06:36.245 --> 01:06:38.005 was a it was a fun 673 01:06:38.565 --> 01:06:42.230 field trip I I went on. Yeah. I was thinking about that a lot, 674 01:06:42.630 --> 01:06:43.670 yesterday. 675 01:06:43.830 --> 01:06:44.390 Like, 676 01:06:45.990 --> 01:06:48.470 you know, this is very common for, 677 01:06:48.870 --> 01:06:56.685 an IoT device to just store your Wi Fi password in its nonvolatile memory in the clear. Right? That's that's how they're all done. 678 01:06:57.484 --> 01:07:12.800 But it is kinda fucked up because, yeah, there's your your WiFi password right there in it. Yeah. So if someone just physically gets access to an IoT device, whatever, takes it from your house, they are just walking out with a copy of your Wi Fi password? Yeah, yeah. Internal 679 01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:13.839 storage. 680 01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:16.480 And I think my biggest concern 681 01:07:16.720 --> 01:07:17.920 isn't so much, 682 01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:26.335 okay, so I send the file to you, So Scott's got my SSID and my WiFi password, but he's nowhere 683 01:07:26.335 --> 01:07:28.175 near WiFi range. 684 01:07:28.335 --> 01:07:34.255 So

what is he really gonna do with it from his geographic location? That's not that big of a concern, 685 01:07:34.495 --> 01:07:43.960 but out of an abundance of caution, it's a good idea just to update that information. But I think the more interesting thing someone could do with information like that 686 01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:45.320 is 687 01:07:45.799 --> 01:07:48.040 in a targeted attack scenario. 688 01:07:48.545 --> 01:07:50.865 Let's say, Tyler, they knew 689 01:07:53.025 --> 01:07:56.465 they were able to see what your SSID was and 690 01:07:56.465 --> 01:07:57.585 the password, 691 01:07:58.545 --> 01:08:06.700 and they knew like you were going to be at like a coffee shop or at a Bitcoin event or a conference or, you know, whatever. 692 01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:09.740 And, like, they could potentially 693 01:08:09.900 --> 01:08:10.700 create 694 01:08:10.700 --> 01:08:12.140 a decoy 695 01:08:12.140 --> 01:08:30.765 WiFi network that looks like one of the ones you have saved in your phone, and your phone would automatically connect to it or could potentially automatically connect to it. And then, you know, it looks like a a router that you are familiar with and trust, but it's really not. And then, you know, that could open up other attack vectors. Okay. 696 01:08:31.540 --> 01:08:50.155 Yeah. That's scary. It is like, it's ridiculous to think that people would normally do this, but I definitely have, like, a separate network that I put even my bid access on. And especially the, you know, random IoT devices that people send me, things like that. Right? It's like a separate network. It can't connect to my main network. 697 01:08:51.114 --> 01:08:58.155 You know, it's not totally foolproof because it has Internet access, but, you know, it can't try and connect to my Yeah. Machines. 698 01:08:58.750 --> 01:09:02.750 Network security seems to be a recurring theme in the era of 699 01:09:03.390 --> 01:09:04.110 AI 700 01:09:04.510 --> 01:09:12.110 as something that can be brute force penetrated more often than you think. Yeah. I wanna look at storing it like a hashed version 701 01:09:12.975 --> 01:09:15.054 in the in a BitX firmware. 702 01:09:15.295 --> 01:09:16.895 There's gotta be a way to do that. 703 01:09:17.295 --> 01:09:17.855 Yeah. 704 01:09:19.375 --> 01:09:25.695 It's not just sitting there in the clear, but, you know, it the BitX does need to send the Wi Fi password to the 705 01:09:26.335 --> 01:09:27.695 to the SSID 706 01:09:27.695 --> 01:09:46.385 to get it to to connect to it, to connect to the access point. Right? So it does need to have the ability to decrypt it. So that's when it's really difficult is to have you could have a hashed or, you know, encrypted version of the password on the device, but the device does need to know how to be able to decrypt it. So that that ends up being that ends up being difficult to do. Right? Yes. 707 01:09:46.545 --> 01:09:53.505 And I hate to do this, but, guys, I gotta go run an errand, so I'm gonna end the show here, 708 01:09:54.504 --> 01:10:03.385 And we'll see you all next week. Until next time. All right. Sorry. See you guys. Sorry for the abrupt ending, but until next time. Later. Later.