293. Rob Williams: Who Is Responsible for the Canucks' Collapse?의 전체 녹취록

make you a bad team, but and but but not at the bottom. 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:58.399 And I think the idea now is you trade your veteran players. 00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:04.800 And they had uh a guy like Marcus Patterson was uh uh would have been probably their second best defenseman on the team this season. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:08.240 They traded him before the year started for a first-round draft pick. 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.399 And that's that's with an eye to the future. 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:17.360 Um, that's gonna make you bad in the near term, but it's gonna, it's gonna hopefully improve your team uh down the line. 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.120 So, really, that's the goal, right? 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.240 Like, like bring in young players, have some sort of some semblance of hope for the future. 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:25.920 They still have veteran players on the team. 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.839 Elias Petterson is their best player, unquestionably, I think this season, uh, having a nice bounce back year. 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:36.720 But Elias Peterson is gonna be 28 years old this year. 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:43.680 He's probably not gonna be, you know, he's gonna be out of his prime by the time the Canucks turn this thing around in a few years. 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.959 He's probably a guy they they still are gonna want to try to trade. 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:49.199 Maybe they try to trade him uh next year. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:06:04.160 And the goal will be to get young players draft picks, um, you know, and preferably first-round draft picks, preferably uh on it from a team that's gonna be uh that's gonna have a high first round draft pick and and and try to build in in those ways. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:16.160 And I think that what people are looking to now are the guys like Caleb Belhotro, who they picked third overall in the most recent draft, Braden Coots who they picked in the first round the the year before that has shown some promise. 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:28.079 Those are the types of guys I think that are with each passing year, if all goes well, that's gonna be where fans get excitement, where they follow these, this, this next group of young players. 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:35.920 Uh, because I think we're done, we're done with the the the Leas Peterson, Brock Besser, uh JT Miller, Quinn Hughes, Thatcher Demko. 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.560 Like that was that was a core group that the Canucks had that that people had high hopes for. 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:46.079 Um and really it was a is a very disappointing uh stretch for for that core group. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:49.680 Uh, I think that's that that is uh unquestionable. 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:52.240 So they're taking a risk. 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:53.600 What are the icebergs? 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:58.480 What are the cliffs that we're looking at when we look out towards what could go wrong? 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.639 Because you've got the fan base on

your side now. 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:00.879 Yeah. 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.519 What on earth happens uh if they make a few mistakes? 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:05.680 What are those mistakes we need to be watching out for? 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.800 Yeah, I mean that it goes without saying I think that there's no guarantees uh when you start a rebuild. 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.480 And and we've seen some franchises um really have trouble with their rebuilds. 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:36.720 Uh, I think everyone hopes that the Canucks rebuild will go as as it did for the Montreal Canadians, where they committed to the rebuild, they committed hard to the rebuild, and they got lucky, they got some good picks, they made some shrewd moves, and all of a sudden, you know, within less than five years, they're a Stanley Cup contender. 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:38.000 That's the best case scenario. 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:45.120 The worst case scenario is you end up like the Buffalo Sabres, who just couldn't do anything right for 10 years. 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:49.279 Um, they even got Jack Eichel in the in the in the draft. 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:51.759 That was the draft when Connor McDavid went number one. 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:53.439 Buffalo was the worst team that year. 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.319 They didn't lock into the first overall pick like Edmondson did. 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:57.839 They got the second overall pick. 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.240 Jack Eichel, tremendous player. 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:02.959 Um, and they found a way to mess that up. 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:08.240 Uh, you know, he he ends up winning a Stanley Cup with the Vegas Golden Knights, not the Buffalo Sabres. 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:12.720 So it's it's those those you've got to make the right moves. 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:16.560 So you can bring in young players, but have you brought in the right young players? 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.959 Uh for instance, the COX picking Caleb Mohocha third overall. 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:22.800 Is that the right pick? 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:27.439 Does he go on to become a uh uh number one center in the National Hockey League? 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:31.199 Does he become a great player in the National Hockey League? 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:33.679 Or is he just an average player? 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.399 Um, or worse yet, is he is he does he become a bust? 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:36.879 We don't know. 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:37.679 We don't know, right? 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.120 I mean, I think they have high hopes for him. 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.440 He seems like a high character guy. 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.480 Um and shows all the signs for that, but you never know. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:54.879 You also never know that the guy that you that you passed up that went that went fourth or fifth or sixth, are the what are those players uh gonna turn into? 00:08:55.039 --> 00:09:00.240 Um are we gonna look back in a few years and say, oh, geez, they they really they really missed on a few players? 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:02.799 What do they do in rounds two and three and four? 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:04.320 There's so many moves there, right? 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:11.360 Where you can have in theory me breaking the right moves, but do you, you know, do you hit on the right players? 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:16.000 Um, you know, that's what's gonna make or break uh the rebuild for them. 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:22.399 Did the Canucks make a terrible mistake in trading Quinn Hughes? 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:24.320 No. 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:33.039 Uh I think that I think if you were talking about a mistake that they maybe made with Quinn Hughes, it's maybe the moves they made along the way. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:42.879 Uh, I think that it got to a point where it's decision time with Quinn Hughes, and you know, maybe he just wants to go play with his brothers in New Jersey and you never had a chance. 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.279 But I think a big part of it was he wanted to win. 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:53.679 And he look, he's looking around at the the team he's on, and there's not much there if you remove him from the equation. 00:09:53.919 --> 00:10:05.039 Um, so they had their their hands were forced in that by by the moves they made uh beforehand um because they were such an uncompetitive team with him. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:15.440 Uh so if if we're for passing blame, I think it's it's it's to the the Jim Rutherford, Patrick of Alvine regime um, you know, for the moves that they they made. 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:30.720 I I remember um I think it was about three months into Patrick Alvin and uh Jim Rutherford's first season asking at the end of this the year to Patrick Alvine, are you willing to take a step back in order to get better? 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:32.320 And I never forget the response. 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.440 The answer was he was like, Well, I don't know if we want to take a step back. 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:40.159 And it was just treated in this in the sense of like, no team wants to ever take a step back. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:44.000 Well, of course, no team ever wants to take a step back, but you have to be realistic. 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:51.679 If you're always got your foot on the gas, like you have to reload with young players and and build in in that way at some point. 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:59.600 Um, you know, you can't trade first round draft picks year after year after year and expect to improve in the long in the long haul. 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:10.639 So uh I think that's where they're at in terms of if did they make a mistake, it was the mistakes they made in team building prior to the decision point with Queen Hughes. 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:15.039 Um, otherwise, the trade I think they made with the Minnesota Wild was uh was a good trade. 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:19.200 I mean, they they bring in four pieces, three former first-round draft

picks. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:22.960 They get an a first-round pick in in the 2026 draft. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:28.000 They used to take Adam Novotny, who's who's showing a lot of uh promise right now in the OHL. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.320 And but again, time will tell. 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.360 Like they got they got four four young players that are showing a ton of promise. 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.679 Um do they ultimately become difference makers at the NHL? 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:44.480 I think they're good bets to do so, but we'll see how they how they uh how they go in their careers. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:50.720 Okay, did Canucks fans boo the wrong person when Quinn Hughes returned to Vancouver? 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:55.840 Well, I think if you if Jim Rutherford ever returns to Vancouver, I think he'll get a pretty good booing as well. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:12.879 So um yeah, I think I think there's look, sports fans, it's like it's it's you know, there's a sense of like you you boo you boo the other team, you cheer the guys that are that are wearing they're wearing your colored jerseys. 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:17.919 Um I think to an extent with Hughes, I think a lot of fans understand why he wanted out. 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:29.519 Um you know, if if you know, I think if a lot of people, if they were put in that situation, yeah, there was a ton of good reasons why you should want out given everything that had happened. 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:44.399 But I think that for every guy like Quinn Hughes, you know, I think the one of the reasons the Sadines are so revered in Vancouver is because they persevered, they fought through all the noise, they fought through all the adversity. 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:57.360 And I remember the Sadines had a chance to leave the organization in 2008, they were free agents, and the Canucks had not been very good, they'd missed the playoffs two out of three years. 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:05.519 There wasn't a lot of reason to think that that team was going to be uh become a really good team uh by any means. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:10.960 And they had been, you know, treated very poorly by a lot of people. 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.919 I think the the you know, earlier in their careers, people calling them the sisters. 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.960 I can imagine if that people someone said that in 2026. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:33.200 Um, but even you know, even in for the time, like that was um, you know just the things that people would say, and this is in the mainstream media, there's not there's not even Twitter around in the in those days. 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:39.440 Um the way that people would say just things like that they're not a fur, they're not first line players. 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:41.919 This was uh right up until when they were free agents. 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.440 There was tons of people in Vancouver that were not Sedine fans. 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:46.720 And what did they do? 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:59.679 They re-signed with the team, they signed a huge contract with them, they used the extra money they got to donate to the to the uh to the children's hospital, um, you know, doing all those things. 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:03.600 They became MVPs and they retired as Canucks. 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.759 I mean, those are the guys that become legends of the franchise. 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.039 Quinn Hughes. 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.840 I can understand why he wants out, but he also got going when the going got tough, didn't he? 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:18.399 Um, so that's why that's why, you know, uh, do I blame him? 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:25.200 Not really, but I sure understand why Canucks fans uh were gonna boo him as well because he quit on the team. 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:30.960 He's he he left the team, he didn't want to be part of it anymore, and that's the reception you're gonna get. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:53.840 That was excellent coverage, just because it reminds you that like so much of this is not just about what deal makes sense, what contract makes sense, but what relationship you have with the fan base, and are you endowing yourselves and in goodwill to them, or are you more focused about win column, loss column, and like where is your loyalty, which I think goes to the core of that. 00:14:54.080 --> 00:15:00.320 Has Elias Peterson become the scapegoat for everything wrong with the Canucks from your perspective? 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.960 I don't know if he's the scapegoat. 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:08.879 Um I think just everyone that was a part of that group, there's that core group, you know. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:18.480 As I mentioned before, uh, there's of course the Patterson Miller uh blow up where you've got your two-star players that just can't get along. 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.840 I think they both ended up looking very poor out of that. 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:27.279 Um like, what do you mean you can't just put your differences aside for the good of the team? 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:36.159 Uh so I think the you know that core group with the with Pederson, Miller, Demko, Besser, Hughes. 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:46.480 I don't necessarily think that there's any one guy that's really I mean, Hughes now obviously got booed on upon his return, but in general, I don't know that everyone blames Miller or everyone blames Pederson. 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:52.799 Uh people still really like Brock Besser, but he obviously is being a disappointment as well for his play on the ice. 00:15:52.960 --> 00:16:00.720 I think Rick Tockett uh is a is a guy that that fans uh you know has drawn the ire of fans as well. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:05.519 There's a ton of blame to go around, and I think that it has gone around. 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:14.159 Uh so I no, I don't think that that Patterson is necessarily the scapegoat for um for what happened to the to that connects group. 00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:33.120

It it's it's a big mixture of everything because I they had talent, um, but there were problems in the way that the team was constructed, there was problems in the ways that the the team was coached, uh, and there was problems with with within the personalities that that clashed um you know within the within the team. 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:37.519 So yeah, it was a tons of blame to go around for sure. 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:46.000 Fans often blame ownership, but owners hire executives, executives build rosters, and coaches are often responsible for the performance. 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:52.159 Can the Canucks ever become a consistently successful franchise without changing the way they run? 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:39.039 Yeah, I mean, I mean, it it uh it starts at the top, right, of any successful business. 00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:45.519 Um, and Canucks ownership has certainly been under a ton of scrutiny from fans and media over the years. 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:54.559 Um I think that for you know, for whatever reason that they they decided to, you know, ownership is apparently onside with with rebuilding. 00:17:54.799 --> 00:18:12.319 I think what fans are looking for is for an ownership that is going to hire the right people, let the people that they've hired do their jobs and provided them with all the resources uh that they need in order to do that. 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:24.960 Um the proof will be in the pudding with this ownership group because I think fans and media have have pointed out what that they they what they've missed on in in recent years. 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:36.559 Um but you know, if we take we take the cityans for for their word and everything that they've said, that they've got the support of ownership right now, that they've got all the resources that they need. 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.240 Uh that continues. 00:18:38.399 --> 00:18:42.879 I think that that's all you can that's all you can hope for from an ownership group. 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.440 Um you know, hire the right people. 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.440 Hopefully the cityans are the right people. 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.680 I think everyone's pulling for them, certainly. 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:59.599 Like that's this is a you know, as I outlined them as players, the guys that just uh, you know, they bleed the blue and green of the Vancouver Canucks, there's no doubt. 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:12.720 Um, there's no two guys uh in in the province, I think, that would be um, you know, that have a confidence in terms of their character and in terms of uh their care for for the team uh that than the Sedines. 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:14.399 So uh we'll see though. 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.639 I I qualify all these, all these things, right? 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:30.480 You can you can do the right moves, the moves that the fans think are the right moves, you can uh you know have the right idea, the right uh concepts uh when you're building your team, but ultimately

do you hit on the right players? 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:32.879 There's an element of luck always with that. 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.200 Um, but do you have the right process? 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:43.039 And if you do have the right process, you know it should lead to to more favorable results uh than what we've seen in in a decade plus. 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.119 May I ask, you've been covering the Canucks for such a long time. 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.799 Could you just reflect on your own work as a journalist covering them? 00:19:50.879 --> 00:19:53.759 What stands out to you over your tenure doing this work? 00:19:54.639 --> 00:20:03.119 So yeah, I I first I first started covering the Canucks full-time in 2015. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:12.480 And I remember when they made the playoffs in 2024, I went, this is the first time I'm covering a Canucks playoff game. 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:13.920 It took me nine years. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:21.119 Now the Canucks did make the playoffs during the 2020 um bubble, in but that was in a bubble in Edmonton. 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:22.079 I wasn't there. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.279 Um and no fans were in the stands. 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:32.160 Uh so yeah, for me, it was like, it's like, man, like I'd love, I'd love nothing more than to cover a winner. 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:39.200 That would not be fun because it feels like a long, long um decade of losing. 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:40.639 Um, I love it though. 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.079 I like I I realize like what a fortunate position I'm in. 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:55.440 Uh, that you know, it's instead of instead of work, I get to to you know, talk nonsense about uh about sports, uh, which is uh you know for me nothing better. 00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:01.279 So uh I love it, but man, I'd love to have uh uh covered a more successful franchise. 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:07.359 And I hope the next 10 years is is uh goes better than the last because uh you know fans in Vancouver deserve it. 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.079 Like there's it's such a passionate fan base. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:20.799 Uh people are star for a winner, they're star for, you know, never mind a Stanley Cup, that goes without saying, but just just some a consistent winner, like a good team to to really pull for. 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.599 Um, you know, it's been it's been a it's been a rough decade, uh, for sure. 00:21:26.879 --> 00:21:36.559 Moving forward, talking about other sports, how can Vancouver have one of the best soccer teams in North America and still risk losing it? 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.440 Yeah, this is a tough one. 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:51.279 Uh, you know, the Vancouver White Caps have been, you know, everything I've said about the the Canucks and how everything's just going wrong, they've been the a model franchise the last two years. 00:21:51.519 --> 00:22:20.000 Um, they were a real surprise team uh in 2025, uh making it to the ConkeCaf Champions League

final, um having uh you know beating beating Lionel Messi even on the run to that to that uh to that final, then getting Thomas Muller, people forget, like they were a they were uh one of the powerhouse teams in MLS, and then they got Thomas Muller. 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:22.000 Muller came here because they were a good team. 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:29.519 He he liked the the the fit um from a sporting perspective, uh first and foremost. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:38.480 And then they go to an MLS Cup final and they've been a powerhouse again this year, top team in the the Western Conference, second overall in MLS. 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.599 But we're still at risk of losing them. 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.319 And I'm not bullish on their chances of staying. 00:22:46.399 --> 00:22:48.240 I I I'm quite concerned about it. 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.599 I'm I'm a you know huge fan of the White Caps. 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:56.720 I love having having them as an addition to the sporting landscape. 00:22:56.879 --> 00:23:01.440 Um, you know, there were white caps editions in the past, but you know, it's different in MLS. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:09.359 This feels like a uh, you know, it's a bigger league than they've ever played in since since the 70s and early 80s. 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:14.000 Um, it comes down to the business model, all right? 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:31.599 They're we're they're playing at BC Place, which for all its issues in terms of not being a great um, you know, an ideal soccer venue, you know, in terms of the the seats don't come right up to the to the touchlines. 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.879 Um, you know, it's it's it's not a great stadium in that sense. 00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:35.839 It's too big. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:44.240 It's you know, 55,000 is is a lot to ask to fill that stadium, you know, other than big games, like you know, big playoff games. 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.960 I think we're gonna see some benefits to that stadium. 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:51.599 Uh but they have to negotiate a lease. 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:58.639 They don't own the stadium, they don't make money off of it's you know, it's unlike if they own their own stadium. 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.639 Like we'll take the example of the Vancouver Canucks. 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.960 Vancouver Canucks can sell all the parking. 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:13.440 If you they have tons of parking underneath Rogers Arena, they can sell that for a fortune, they can charge$20 for beers, they rake in all the money from that. 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:17.440 Uh, they make all the money off tickets, they do all on and on and on. 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:26.720 The white caps have to negotiate a deal with BC Place in terms of what they get from BC Place because it's not their stadium. 00:24:26.879 --> 00:24:34.559 Um, the Canucks can sell ads up and down, left and right, all inside Rogers Arena because they own the arena, right? 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:38.160 The white caps can do things on game days, right? 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.519 So it's it's a it's a different kind of a situation. 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.359 There's been tons of talk about what's gonna happen. 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:50.559 Like one of the ideas is to let the white caps run BC Place, right? 00:24:50.639 --> 00:24:53.680 And and I talked to a lot of soccer fans that think that's a great idea. 00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:00.399 I talked to some other friends that go, well, what do they know about uh running a stadium, right? 00:25:00.879 --> 00:25:03.359 I I don't know what's gonna happen. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:30.960 I I feel like it's it's I I'll say this, um, you know, without picking aside or you know, I'm not uh you didn't bring me on for my economics uh uh acumen, but it seems it would seem wrong to me for um the province of BC to own a stadium like BC Place and us not having a viable way to have an MLS team in there. 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:42.240 To have a the White Caps not being able to be profitable or profitable enough in a stadium that we own, that just seems wrong, right? 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:46.240 I know I know that they I know that there's I know there's increasingly more concerts. 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:53.039 I know the BC Lions play there, I know they have boat shows and auto shows or whatever they'll say they host at BC Place. 00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:06.799 But we built BC Place as a sporting venue, and for that to not be able to to you know to lose the white caps because BC Place wasn't uh a suitable venue, that just seems that just feels wrong to me. 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.920 I hope that they can find a way to to resolve that. 00:26:10.639 --> 00:26:15.920 I'm wondering what are your thoughts on taxpayers being involved in trying to resolve this issue? 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.039 Do you support that? 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.920 Are you against that? 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:19.519 Do you have a position on that? 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:34.000 Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't think there's support in BC for throwing money at this in terms of like paying uh you know, paying a white cap's owner or spending money in in that sense. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:42.879 Uh the one thing that I think that's that's that's interesting in this respect is that by the by the government's own admission, like BC Place is not turning a profit. 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.799 Like this is not a profit generating venue. 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:55.279 So for me, I I look at that and say, well, so what's the downside to letting the white caps run it? 00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:04.160 If it's not if it's not generating money for for the province, if it's costing uh taxpayers money, then I don't know. 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.440 Let's it can the white caps um make a better go of it. 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.839 Um, you know, I think there's reasons to think that are that a private business could. 00:27:12.399 --> 00:27:15.839 Um, you know, it's named

BC Place, first of all. 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.079 You know, the I this is one thing I come back to. 00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:25.680 The 16 FIFA World Cup host cities, there was only one stadium that didn't need to dramatically change its name. 00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:31.039 You know, like we saw BMO Field in Toronto, that became uh Toronto Stadium, right? 00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:33.200 Seattle, Seattle Stadium. 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:40.079 It remained BC Place because Vancouver had the only stadium that didn't have a sponsor's name attached to it. 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.440 That just seems like money that we're just giving away. 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:51.279 That should be TELUS Field or the name, find a sponsor that wants to throw like a ton of money at that. 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.160 To me, that right there, like that's the first glaring, obvious example. 00:27:56.399 --> 00:28:08.160 I wonder how many other incremental moves um, you know, that could that could help the business of BC Place, um, you know, if you had a a private enterprise running it. 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.720 So that that to me, that makes some sense. 00:28:10.879 --> 00:28:21.680 Um, and I just feel like if it's not making a ton of money for the taxpayers at BC, then it's probably, I mean, uh, I'm at least open to a conversation about that. 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:39.359 And I I don't, I don't, I I I fail to see where the downside is that like would we not get Taylor Swift if the Vancouver White Cap so but like it are the we're this it's not like they're putting uh BC Place puts on a you know it's not like this is like a there's little community events that need to be at a 55 to 000 seat stadium. 00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:53.599 Uh to me, it's it's you know, I I just want to see that there to be a way where we can where we can save the white caps and and we can still have this this stadium that brings big events uh to the city. 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:56.720 I and I hope that there is a way to to achieve both. 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.559 Okay, Rob, this is my hardest hitting question of the interview. 00:29:00.639 --> 00:29:01.119 Are you ready? 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:02.480 Fire away, yeah. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:03.039 Okay. 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:10.720 Could the Vancouver White Caps eventually become more important to the city of Vancouver than the Canucks? 00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:13.599 Short term, sure. 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.160 Uh short term, absolutely. 00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:18.399 Like let's say they they go on a run. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:23.519 I mean, the with the the the playoffs in 2026, there's high hopes for the Vancouver White Caps. 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.000 Uh, it would be incredible to see them go on a run. 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:28.079 Uh it was fun last year. 00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:44.240 Uh, it would be unbelievable this year, especially if they could host the the MLS Cup final, uh, which they will, if they make the final, as long as they don't play the number one team in the East, which is Nashville, it'll be the White Caps hosting the MLS Cup final at BC Place. 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:45.200 That would be an unreal. 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.000 But long term, it's a Canucks town. 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.000 I mean, it's the the Canucks are number one. 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.279 They're it's gonna be very, very difficult to dethrone them. 00:29:53.440 --> 00:30:02.079 Uh, I even say, like, in in some of these seasons where the Canucks have been really bad and you get, especially late in the season, people are kind of people get sick of the games. 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:07.119 Like, people don't want to hear about the games, they don't really want to talk about the games, but they're never sick of the team. 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:09.680 They always want to know what's going on with the team. 00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:21.920 And what I mean about the team versus the games is what is what's looking, you know, if the the games may might be meaningless, uh, you know, already even for the Canucks, but how are their young players doing? 00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.039 How is their top prospect doing in and the NCAA? 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.079 Uh, what are they gonna be doing for the draft coming up? 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.799 Um, you know, what what jersey color should they have? 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:34.000 Should they change their logo? 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:35.039 All of these things. 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.799 People cannot get enough of Canucks hockey. 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:41.839 Um, you know, there's just so many diehard fans in the city. 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:48.160 So it's gonna be tough for any team, I think, to ever knock off the Canucks in the uh off that number one perch, but but yeah, sure. 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:50.319 Short term, short term, sure, yeah. 00:30:50.399 --> 00:30:54.960 The White Caps can can definitely make some waves uh, you know, with a good playoff push here. 00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:06.319 It's actually one of the reasons I wanted to have you on was because we on the show cover a lot of different issues, drip uh, repeal politics, all types of problems. 00:31:06.879 --> 00:31:09.599 But sports is one of those great unifiers. 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:18.240 They're those a great way to reconnect people when we may disagree on policy and what government should be doing what and how it should operate. 00:31:18.399 --> 00:31:21.519 That sports is a place where we can all still break bread over. 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:30.000 And I'm just wondering, as you look at what we just went through an election and all of these different challenges, how do you think about sports as a un as a unifier? 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:36.559 I was gonna say you haven't spent enough time on uh Canuck's Twitter and seeing all the arguments going on, but no, yeah, no, I know what you're saying. 00:31:36.639 --> 00:31:42.319 Yeah, like um sports is is especially when the

when the team is good. 00:31:42.399 --> 00:31:49.599 I mean, I think when the team is bad is it's it's uh the the fans fight amongst themselves, uh if anything, there. 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:55.039 But no, it's it's our team against your team, and and Vancouver, there's no better. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:32:04.799 I mean, there's I'm biased, of course, as a as a sports fan, but when the Canucks are in the playoffs, there's just an energy in the city that is unmatched. 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:23.119 Um, remember when they went to the to the final in 2011, and I know it ended in a riot, so the it it all ended in flames in game seven, but I think people forget the run of two months up until that point, people high-fiving in the streets, people peacefully celebrating in the streets. 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:26.480 It was an incredible run up until that last point. 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:34.000 Um, and you see the same thing to different extents, even just even just um two years ago when they made the playoffs in 2024. 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:48.720 Um, you know, watch parties, people gathering in parks and and you know, even just a smaller scale, people's going to going to friends' homes and and uh and and watching as a as a group there. 00:32:48.879 --> 00:33:00.720 Um, you know, if you're wearing a Canucks hat during the playoffs and you go into the grocery store, you know, the there's a good chance the grocery clerk's gonna talk to you about last night's game or or what's coming up in tonight's game. 00:33:00.879 --> 00:33:02.720 Um so yeah, it's it's incredible. 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:27.839 Um I think we as we saw during the the FIFA World Cup, um what cool moments that that that we got to to experience there where um you know I spent a ton of time uh going to the games, but also just at the watch parties and just seeing um you know, even just like seeing at the watch parties when Mexico was playing, and Mexico wasn't even playing in, they were playing in Mexico, we're far away from here. 00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:36.160 Um, but we've got a huge uh Mexican population in Vancouver that showed up and were just having the having the the best time. 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:42.639 And I think that um, you know, there's probably no better example of of of people coming together than the World Cup. 00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:50.319 But um, you know, to another to another extent for hockey, for you know, even for the White Caps. 00:33:50.399 --> 00:33:56.559 I mean, if the White Caps we're able to do it this year, I think we'll see you know some really cool moments as well. 00:33:56.879 --> 00:33:58.879 Um yeah, I love it. 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:09.119 I think it's I think it's fantastic and and uh and I and I yearn for more more uh more big games that happen in my city um so we can experience that together. 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.400 Was hosting the 2026 FIFA World Cup worth the money? 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:20.400 Again, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna claim to be the

to to have an expertise in the economics, right? 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:25.039 And I think that if you so I so I won't. 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:26.079 I won't go I won't go. 00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.480 As a fan, was it if you think it was worth it? 00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.639 Now look, I'll I'll say this. 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:34.400 It was worth I don't know, I'm not gonna say how much I don't know how much we spent. 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:34.800 I don't know. 00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:38.480 It's it's up to everyone to decide whether that was that was worth it for them. 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.880 For me, it was an unbelievable experience. 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:49.920 And I thought it was such a cool experience for even if you you didn't even have to be going to any matches, I think, to have experienced the World Cup in Vancouver. 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:55.440 And I think that that's um, you know, I think that's a testament to what the the the show the city put on. 00:34:55.600 --> 00:35:02.640 And you know, I think Vancouver's become is earning a a pretty good reputation now as being able to put on big events. 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.560 Um the 2010 Olympics was un unbelievable. 00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.320 The World Cup was great too. 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:20.240 I mean, the the the outdoor watch parties at at uh the Peony, I when they first announced the plans to to have them at the Peony, I thought that was a mistake because it's so far away from downtown. 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.600 I thought you were gonna be spreading things out and there wasn't gonna be much of a buzz. 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.200 It ended up being incredible. 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:31.519 Downtown was awesome too on Gravel Street, and you had more of kind of a party vibe there. 00:35:31.600 --> 00:35:37.840 I think you had more of a family-friendly um vibe, but still good at uh at the Peony. 00:35:38.560 --> 00:35:46.880 Um so yeah, I think that in in that sense, it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to host a World Cup in your city. 00:35:47.040 --> 00:35:48.960 Uh, Vancouver got to do it. 00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:52.080 Um, and there were just some incredible scenes. 00:35:52.160 --> 00:36:03.519 I mean, I was there for when Canada played both of their matches in Vancouver, and the sea of red of fans marching to the stadium was unbelievable. 00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:10.640 I mean, I've got like goosebumps just talking about it right now, clear blue skies, and you know, the the weather, that was the other thing. 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:14.160 The Vancouver like showed up weather wise. 00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:19.600 It was like we I we had like the most incredible June in Vancouver history, I think, weather wise. 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:25.040 And then you know, we at the I think at the expense of August, we got a bit of rain in August, but June was unreal. 00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:28.080 Like we know how to we know how to put a show when the world's watching. 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:33.200 Um, yeah, it was it was a unbelievable, cool experience. 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.680 Um was it worth the money? 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.440 That's for everyone to decide. 00:36:38.240 --> 00:36:44.320 Why do the BC lines keep coming so close, but can't get over the hump? 00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:48.160 It's in you know, it's really becoming a story now. 00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:53.280 I mean, it's been 15 years since they've been to a grey cup uh in a nine-team league. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:59.920 Like that's a long time, and they have the longest drought now of for a great cup um appearance. 00:37:00.560 --> 00:37:08.240 Um seven of the eight teams have also won Grey Cup since the last time the the Lions have won one in 2011. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.200 Uh, and it's now four out of the last five years. 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.280 They've fallen in the Western final. 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:24.800 Um, yeah, they they especially with Nathan Rourke, you know the biggest star, if not the biggest star on the CFL, he's number one, two, three. 00:37:25.040 --> 00:37:33.840 Um, to not have at least been to a great cup um is is I think really grading on on Lions fans now. 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:40.080 Um and I think that this this last year was, I think, in my estimation, the most disappointing. 00:37:40.240 --> 00:37:54.240 I think that the Lions that they had run into the to the the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, which were uh a powerhouse team in years past, to not really have that one team standing in their way this year. 00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.960 Edmonton's kind of an upstart team this season. 00:37:57.040 --> 00:38:12.400 They finished with a better record, but the Lions, the Lions were right at the top of the CFL after after about week six, they won, rattled off nine out of ten, uh, nine wins in ten games. 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:20.240 Um, really showed all the signs of a team that could go all the way and to not even make it to the Grey Cup is certainly disappointing. 00:38:21.680 --> 00:38:30.480 Getting into journalism, Vancouver lost TSN uh 1040 in 2021 and SportsNet 650 this July. 00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:33.840 You've built a career in digital sports coverage. 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.280 So you understand the pressure to create stories that attract attention. 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:48.400 And I'm just wondering, how do you think about the landscape now and how do you continue to deliver good journalism when there's a changing um media ecosystem taking place? 00:38:49.600 --> 00:38:59.120 Yeah, I mean, I think I I've been someone that's sort of part of this new wave because I didn't come through the traditional uh streams. 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:09.040 Um when I was kind of breaking in with Daily Hive, uh it was a time where newspapers were shrinking. 00:39:09.120 --> 00:39:23.840 Uh, I remember kind of my first time in the press box and the number of newspaper uh writers that were there, there's probably six or

seven, eight newspaper writers in in the uh in the the press box. 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:26.720 Uh if you go in the press box now, there'll be one. 00:39:27.600 --> 00:39:37.840 You know, it's it's uh you know, and and and I don't think that we necessarily get fewer stories now than we did before, but it's it's more fragmented. 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:47.840 Um, you know, you have the athletic, you have uh uh writers for sports net on the digital side, uh, you have outlets like ours. 00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.160 Um so I think it things have just gotten more and more fragmented. 00:39:52.320 --> 00:40:09.600 And that's essentially, I think, what's happening now with sports radio is that we had TSN 1040 for for a long time, was the the um, you know, for for two decades was the was the top sports radio station in Vancouver. 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:16.240 And then you end up with two sports radio stations at the same time with SportsNet, and now with none. 00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:32.560 And I think what we've seen just over the summer is and then and since 1040 went down, that we're seeing a shift, and you're seeing podcasts and video uh shows like this one um are popping up all over the place. 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:40.640 And I think that now, you know, I've written articles on it just like sort of like explainers for sports fans saying, like, hey, here's where to find everything. 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:48.560 So it's not quite so easy as just jump on jump in the car and you have your dial already to Sports and 650 or TSN 1040. 00:40:48.720 --> 00:40:56.560 Now you've got to find it, you gotta find it on your podcast app, you've got to find it on on YouTube and and tune in that way. 00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:07.519 But I think in you know, in a lot of in many ways, we're we're getting much of the same um content, but in in different forms. 00:41:07.680 --> 00:41:10.640 So we're seeing definitely a changing of the guard there. 00:41:10.720 --> 00:41:23.920 And I I I feel it feels very similar to I think what was going on with with writing and uh and news publications um, you know, from you know 10 plus years ago. 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:28.240 So much of how we think about sports comes down to personalities. 00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:32.960 And the main one, of course, is Don Cherry and his coverage and and what that meant to people. 00:41:33.120 --> 00:41:48.560 Do you see a revival or something like that coming back in some sort of way where like he's a household name still and he's been out of that sea for many, many years, and there hasn't really been, I guess, a turning of the guard to that extent on something like that. 00:41:48.640 --> 00:41:50.160 How do you think about that issue? 00:41:50.560 --> 00:41:52.880 Don't know if there'll ever be another Don Cherry. 00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:58.480 Uh, but yeah, like, you know, we're seeing personalities in, you know, if I think about other sports, like Stephen A. 00:41:58.640 --> 00:42:05.200 Smith is maybe, you know, uh, you know, an outspoken voice um in the United States on ESPN. 00:42:05.680 --> 00:42:10.080 Uh, think about guys like uh Charles Barkley in the NBA. 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:17.840 Um you know, just having that charisma and uh you know and and knowledge of the game. 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:23.280 I think that there's we're seeing we're seeing that in in some of those other sports. 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:26.080 Um yeah, we're still waiting for it, I think, in hockey. 00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:28.400 Um you know, you've got the insiders. 00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:35.120 I think we saw a kind of a changing of the guard where uh Bob McKenzie was kind of the the the go-to insider. 00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:48.480 He retires, and I think Elliott Friedman's kind of taking the mantle now where I think people look to him as as kind of that that you know, maybe has the title of most trusted insider in the in the game, right? 00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:51.519 Um, but do we have that one personality? 00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:56.880 I think that no, I think we're we're searching for, I think there's some people who've done tremendous jobs. 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:03.600 Uh Kevin Biex, I think, has been, I mean, Kevin Bieksa was was a a really good hockey player as an in the NHL. 00:43:03.680 --> 00:43:05.760 I think he's an even better broadcaster. 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:16.720 Um, you know, being able to offer uh, I think the insight, the knowledge, but also being entertaining, being funny, uh, presenting things in a way that that that viewers love. 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:22.480 And and um, you know, so I think that that's you know, maybe the future. 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:25.040 There's also Paul Bissonet, I guess, is another one. 00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:47.360 He's not he's you know more on American television right now than than Canadian television, but I think that every sport's probably searching for that that Charles Barclay, Shaquille O'Neal, inside the NBA um type of format where you can have uh big names, you can have people that are opinionated, they're outspoken, they're funny, they're entertaining. 00:43:47.680 --> 00:43:59.360 And you know, Don Cherry in his heyday, you will maybe put his politics and problematic aspects of him to the side, but it, you know, in his heyday, he was entertaining. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.800 People wanted to know what he wanted, what he was gonna say, right? 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.640 The people were hanging on his every word during Coach's corner. 00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:18.080 And I think it you want to capture some of that where you you have someone that has everyone's attention and is entertaining and is insightful and and and has something interesting to say. 00:44:18.560 --> 00:44:20.720 May I ask how did you get into this work? 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.800 What made you passionate about covering sports and the work that you do? 00:44:25.600 --> 00:44:32.480 Yeah, I I mean I I was completely non

traditional, uh had a non traditional path uh to this. 00:44:32.560 --> 00:44:35.200 I was working in a completely different inch industry. 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.720 Um I majored in geography in university. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:39.040 I 00:44:39.440 --> 00:46:23.519 had uh was in the the corporate world and uh it was kind of the era of the blog and i started a cinux blog and uh the canucks blog kind of turned into uh opportunity to write for a digital publication that eventually became um my job at at daily hive and sort of never looked back uh and just sort of grew with with the um I grew with the publication um but in terms of why did I get involved I mean I've just always had a passion for sports um hockey has always been been number one for me but I love I love you know just about every just about every sport out there there's there's you know I I I love the stories I love the uh competition I love the drama um love the rumors love the the gossip behind the the sport um so yeah I love love everything about it and and you know as I said earlier you know it it doesn't feel like work when you when you love what you do and and and that's how I feel you know what I think a lot of people can learn from what you just said um I just spoke to a journalism class and I told them just start a Substack on what you're passionate about or start like I know there's other versions of Substack just start something where you're using your voice you might not get paid for it it might not do anything for five years but keep doing what you enjoy and let the opportunities and the business land where it may but when you do something you love it it has this way of turning into something because if you're passionate enough to do a good job in the independent blog posts you do then it starts to open up people start to read it and want to connect with you and then doors open doors you probably didn't expect during that time it's not like you were like this is how I'm gonna get into the industry. 00:46:23.680 --> 00:46:26.160 It was just opening doors and seeing where it was going to go. 00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:35.440 And I think so much of what people miss out on on what is new media from my perspective is just that there's nothing stopping you from starting today. 00:46:35.600 --> 00:46:39.840 You you would have had a laptop and some thoughts to write down in a blog post. 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:51.920 And then it starts to turn into something bigger than that over time and you start it from a place of love and then doors start to open you start to get interviews you start to get opportunities to ask a certain person a question. 00:46:52.080 --> 00:47:03.200 Yeah people reach out to you and it can just blossom into something and I think so many people feel like they're too busy or they don't have the time but just giving yourself to that you just don't know where it will lead. 00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.360 And so I'm just I'm grateful that you shared that story. 00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:15.200 I did see that you had a geography degree and I just thought it was such a good reminder that you can be a jack of all trades and that doesn't mean your geography degree isn't useful. 00:47:15.280 --> 00:48:34.960 Like I'm sure it plays a role in understanding where all the teams are and where they're at um because so many of these games are played throughout North America and so I just I think there's a a big lesson to be learned in your approach and that like all I have is a is a$500 camera and a microphone and doors can start to open and opportunities can start to come about when you just follow your passion and it can be 15 minutes a day but if you start to do that doors will open yeah I mean the the advice I give to to young journalists now um I I don't I don't encourage them to try to like copy the path that I took because it's just that was I think a a time capsule of like starting of everyone having their own blog um but I think the the the key thing that that ended up happening for me was was that because I was doing my own thing I wasn't in a box of okay I'm working for this newspaper and they want me to just write a game story and just just and and and have no personality and just sort of recap a a game it was a situation where I was thinking well why on earth would someone read my blog I mean you know why would someone read my blog rather than go to TSN or go wherever so I had to think of like why would they do that? 00:48:35.200 --> 00:48:38.320 So that means you have to give people something that they're not getting elsewhere. 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:42.960 So you've got to are you do you do you have an opinion that's not already out there? 00:48:43.200 --> 00:49:07.440 Are you um writing or speaking you know if you're on a podcast are you doing are you are are you shining the light on something that that's not already out there because there's no good in in in just doing something that other people are already doing and are already doing successfully you have to be able if you're gonna do that you got to do it better than them otherwise you got to think of something new. 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:42.240 And I think that's what the thing that I always encourage people to do is to to try to think of a different way a different approach and that's kind of what I've always tried to do is to you know you you got to kind of zig when everyone else is zagging um you know otherwise otherwise it's just gonna be you're just you're not you're not offering anything different and and and and I've never worked for a the the you know I'm I'm not working for Rogers or Bell or you know one of these these major corporations it's hard to beat those big corporations if there's just one of you. 00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:43.920 So you got to think of something different. 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.240 And that's usually the answer. 00:49:46.880 --> 00:50:00.080 What did you learn from that experience of starting out independently

like as you know you're the I'm sure the environment is shifting around you all the time and you're hearing whispers of this new media organization, that one's collapsing. 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:15.440 And you kind of you were on that front wave but there's as as you might imagine more waves always coming how did that just change your frame of thinking because so many people do go like well I've got this newspaper and they want me to write this way or I work at this place. 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:16.880 They just want me to check this box. 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:25.840 And then it almost removes your ability to think what do I want to do where do I want to be how do how do I fit myself into this new system or how do I create something new? 00:50:26.000 --> 00:52:03.519 How did that shape your thinking that journey from just an idea and a passion you had to being able to really turn this into a successful um career yeah and I and I think because of the publication I was working for it was a young up uh you know upstart publication that was doing things differently uh as well I mean Daily Hive started in Vancouver as a you know first as a blog and then as a publication to tell people about their city and and telling it from a lens of for young people um because I think at that time there was there was a lot of uh old media telling you about your city but they weren't necessarily telling you what nightclubs to go to what restaurants to go to um what free things you can do in the city stuff that appeals to young people and I've always sort of tried to to have that same same lens right we're you know I always sort of feel like we're supposed to be the the young fun company um so you know as the you know the name of our sports section is offside and you know it's when you read that there's a you know there's a twinkle in our eye when we say that right it's we're we're a little offside right we we we you know we we want to be we want to be well I'll tell you this story is when I was first starting out I was I I said to a friend of mine where I was really trying to find my voice and I said to him you know look I'm not sure if I'm trying to be and what I said was I'm not sure if I'm trying to be Bob Mackenzie or Cabbie on the street. 00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:39.120 Now both of those references are a little bit dated now but Bob McKenzie's the most trusted insider the guy with the the best information as all the sources I think and I'm thinking geez I well I I'm I'm not that guy and then I thought well cabbie on the street was always hilarious uh you know cabbie Richards was you know going up to people doing these incredibly funny interviews kind of the this jokester right and I was like well geez I don't know if I'm that either and I remember my friend telling me he said you are the Bob Mackenzie of Cabbie subjects and it's stuck with me ever since. 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:52.640 And what he meant by that was you know look if I'm talking about the Canucks changing their jerseys or changing I wrote once wrote a story about them removing the stripes from their pants from the uniform. 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:58.160 Very minor right but I want to be the Bob Mackenzie of that subject. 00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:05.680 I want there to be nobody else that knows as much about that silly stupid thing than me. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:07.760 And I want it to be written smartly. 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:11.680 So it can be a silly subject but I don't want it to be written silly if that makes sense. 00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:20.160 So that's kind of one of the things that I always sort of stuck stuck with me is that having that conversation with my friend and just sort of always thinking about that. 00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:38.000 Not that we don't just also tackle serious subjects on occasion but that's sort of like the thing where we can really own that right that's something that um you know we can we can be the that's ours that's a that's a daily hive subject that is something that we are going to absolutely own. 00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:46.160 And and when when I write about that nobody's gonna have nobody's gonna be more dialed into the pant stripes than me. 00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:55.840 You know and and that type of story is something that often doesn't get covered anywhere else right like that it's too small for maybe some of the big outlets to care about the fans care about it. 00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:59.280 And I always feel like if fans care about it, I care about it. 00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:00.960 You know and I am a fan. 00:54:01.040 --> 00:54:28.800 So that's why I can I think I can relate to that and that's why I think I think it maybe comes uh second nature to me a lot of times where I understand why people are gonna care about something do you have career aspirations do you have a vision of where you want to go next or is it just keep on keeping on who knows I mean the the media landscape is changing um all the time um I love what I do I I always want to stay in sports. 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:40.240 I don't want to leave sports um I love being in Vancouver I don't want to leave Vancouver so um you know for me that you know my Daily Hive offers that for me right now. 00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:45.040 So yeah I I think I've I think I've got it uh got a pretty good thing going. 00:54:45.600 --> 00:54:48.160 Rob I really appreciate your approach. 00:54:48.240 --> 00:55:00.320 I I think it's just your mindset to be applied to carpenters electricians this mindset of doing it your own way um and finding a way to plug into a bigger system uh and start to see gains is really important. 00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:12.880 You tying the that story of tying those two worlds together and taking the best of both I think there's a lot of lessons in that because so often we feel like we're in a dichotomy where we can put two things together and have something much better. 00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.800 So I really admire the work that you do and the the passion you bring to that. 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:18.640 How can people follow your work? 00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:36.560 I tweet too much on uh on Twitter uh at Rob theHockey guy you can also find me at Rob theHockey guy I'm increasingly Instagramming too much as well so you can find me on Instagram but yeah Rob the Hockey Guy is my handle on on most social media platforms uh and on our website dailyhive.com. 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:42.640 Fantastic well thank you for sharing your time as I said I I really admire your approach and some of the insights you shared. 00:55:42.720 --> 00:55:48.160 I think there's broader lessons that listeners can take away from that and very excited to continue to follow your work. 00:55:48.560 --> 00:55:51.360 Appreciate it and thanks for all the kind words appreciate it thanks Aaron