Thoughtload: Why Working Harder Isn't Fixing Work with Dr. Liane Davey의 전체 녹취록

made it for today, right? 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:41.439 And and the other thing is when our thought load is high, we're not very good at picking the right thing off the list to do. 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:47.600 So, so you're onto something really great with getting it out of your head and putting it somewhere safe. 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.519 That's that works, and that's very true. 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:51.120 You can take it out of your thought load. 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:58.000 We'll just give you a few tips about a better place to put it than just one long to-do list. 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.160 I think a lot of people operate on lists. 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.079 I joke, I learned it from my mom who used to write it on the back of envelopes and mail. 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:06.959 Speaking of Gen X, that was something parents did. 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:09.199 So I used to have one list. 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:12.399 It was like my home list book and my work list book. 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:14.800 Then managing the list became too much. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.920 So I have one list book, but then I'll break it by day. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:22.480 So then I'm only looking at what I have to do that day and I don't add anything to the day that I'm already in. 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:24.399 I'll try and add it to later on. 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:31.040 So, what would your recommendation be to our listeners out there who maybe one have never started a list? 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:32.240 I think you touched on that. 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.399 Or two, what are the best practices if you're operating with lists like that? 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:37.279 Yeah. 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:56.959 So one of the problems is that list will have everything on it from like the most essential, important part of your job that's the value you're creating in your role, right down to we haven't yet done the compliance training on safe use of box cutters, right? 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.040 All those things end up on the same list. 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:11.040 So the problem is when our thought load is high, the thing we pull off of that list is often the thing attached to the scariest person or the thing that just popped up in our inbox. 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.240 And that's not the best way to prioritize a list. 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:17.680 So I talk about having three lists instead of one. 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:27.439 So the first list is what are the things that are absolutely essential to the outcome I'm here to create? 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:35.839 And I'm okay with your home list merging with your work list, but it's like the most important outcomes for me. 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:46.879 What are the number one, number two, and number three things I want to do today to advan or this week even to advance on my quest, my most important things. 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:56.079 That list should be unadulterated, not full of compliance training or anything else, or take the dry cleaning or any of those things. 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:04.800 The second list is that when we work in an organization, we have lots to contribute to other people's most important outcomes. 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:07.920 And probably you're getting requests from all over. 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:27.439 I need you to come to this meeting, I need you to help write this proposal, I need you to so second list, this is a hard one because we have to really raise our game is what are the most unique to us things we need to contribute to support our colleagues in achieving their outcomes? 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.199 And again, number one, number two, and number three. 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:35.839 And you probably had number four, number five, number six, number seven, number twelve. 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:47.759 And it's really important to say which of those are the most important and urgent and unique to me, and not to just let everything on that list take over your list. 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:48.800 So that's the second list. 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.120 And then the third list, I call them the side quests. 00:07:51.279 --> 00:08:02.240 That's where if you got to do compliance training or you're you're in a publicly traded company and the SEC requires that you fill in some form, or there's lots of side quests we have to do to keep the lights on. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.680 But again, put those in order and work through them. 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:20.160 So when we have three lists, then we can say in the most precious time in our week, I'm gonna fill that precious, high energy creative time with my list. 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:28.000 Then I'm gonna look at the second tier of my time and I'm gonna fill it with those ways I collaborate and connect with people. 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:37.840 And then that third list, I'm putting that in the little spots in between meetings, Thursday at 4:30, when my attention span is like that of a goldfish. 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:46.399 And if we do that, then we spend our best energy and our best attention on the things that matter most. 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:54.159 When we just have one list and you start your day and you're drinking your coffee, you're like, oh, I'm gonna do a bunch of those side quests right now. 00:08:54.639 --> 00:09:00.559 We waste our best time on the least value-added work. 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:13.919 So that's the difference in having three lists, is so that we can put those activities in the spots where they belong instead of what most of us do, which is I say, What are you doing in your prime time? 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:19.200 I'm responding to Slack messages and I'm sitting in meetings and I'm like, where are you doing your most important stuff? 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:21.039 Evenings and weekends usually. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:22.879 So yeah. 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:30.559 So we need to have three lists, not one, so that we can put our best energy and

attention on the stuff that matters most. 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.360 And I would say that's that is definitely at work, but that's also at home. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.840 What is it that really matters at home? 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:41.919 And what are you gonna do in the time when you're most present, right? 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:43.919 Versus yeah. 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:45.840 So really important to think that way. 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:46.960 I love that. 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:57.679 Rebecca and I just talked about in a previous episode how you'll go through a workday, and because you might have your plan and you have your calendar of meetings, and then the team's message comes through. 00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.200 Hey, do you have a second? 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:00.720 And then the email pops up. 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:02.480 Can you just review this really quickly? 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:09.360 And before you know it, it's lunchtime and you haven't touched anything, not only your daily plan, but your weekly plan. 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:12.720 So, how would you recommend our listeners manage that? 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.799 Yeah, book it. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:24.320 So you could say, I keep from 11 to 12 o'clock each day and four to five o'clock for requests from colleagues, tidying things up. 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.279 I find by 11, I'm kind of like, right? 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.919 I'm pretty good until uh because I'm a morning person. 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:34.159 So if I'm starting at 7:30, by 11, it's not so great. 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:42.320 So, okay, before I take lunch, I'm gonna make sure if there's anything my colleagues need, if there's anything my customers need, if there's anything urgent in my email, I've created a spot. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:44.480 So you just literally respond. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:50.720 You first of all, I would actually train my colleagues to know that's where I have the spot. 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.720 So if you want to slide something into my 11 o'clock spot, let me know. 00:10:55.039 --> 00:11:04.879 But if you haven't trained them, then you're just literally responding with, I'm heads down at the moment, and be happy to take a peek at that before I take a lunch break. 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:06.240 I love that. 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:10.080 I am not a morning person, I can't share that with you. 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:13.840 No, but then again, what's going in your most precious time? 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:21.039 If at three o'clock you're just starting to cook with gas, are you sitting in a bunch of operations meetings that are useless? 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:28.080 And how many of those slots in a week are full of stuff that is not what needs your full brain power? 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:34.320 It whatever your particular tradidian rhythms are, make it work for you. 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:38.639 But just ask yourself in my most precious time in the week, what's in there? 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:40.559 What's squatting on that land? 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.600 And usually the nothing good. 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:58.639 I think we're all trained to the other thing I talk about in Thought Load is I talk about how managers who reward responsiveness are perpetuating this problem. 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.840 So rewarding responsiveness is just rewarding your team for being distracted. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:12.159 Because the only reason they could write back to you right away is that they had their email open or their Slack or their Teams or whatever, and they were watching. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:16.639 And that means they were not all in on the work that you're actually paying them to do. 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:22.159 So, yes, we all have that problem of the side quests all of a sudden like taking over. 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:23.200 Yes. 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:25.360 Gotta fix it. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:26.960 Yeah, absolutely. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:33.039 Liam, what are the actual pieces that go into Thought Load? 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.159 Yeah, great question. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:39.519 So Thought Load itself, I think of as this invisible tax on our performance. 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:50.159 And the problem is if your manager's looking at you and you're looking exhausted and they're looking at what work you've produced, they're probably like, and you're like, but I'm exhausted. 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.000 That's remember, it's because Thought Load is an invisible tax. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.559 They can't see all that's weighing on you. 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:01.200 So think about it as an equation, two things on top and one on the bottom. 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:17.039 So the two things on the top is all of the cognitive demands, the things you have to pay attention to, the the complexity of what you're dealing with, the decision fatigue, like it's all oof that you have to think and crunch and cope with. 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:18.159 That's one part. 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:21.120 The second part is the emotional burdens. 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:28.799 And that's just all the things that all day long are have causing you to have that reaction of, is he out to get me? 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:29.759 Am I in trouble? 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:38.799 The word trouble, it still amazes me how many people in their 40s and 50s making over$100,000 will still use the language of, I'm gonna get in trouble. 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:39.200 Yeah. 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:47.840 Yeah, we feel like we're in trouble or or just feeling anxious or feeling down or overwhelmed. 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:49.440 So there's the emotional burdens. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.039 That's the load, the cognitive demands and the emotional burdens. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.679 Oh, and you can feel the weight, even when I say that. 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.919 But the denominator of the equation is your energy reserves. 00:14:00.159

--> 00:14:10.559 So if you think about a day when you slept really well, maybe you had a great weekend, you had protein for breakfast, and you're like, I got this, I can carry that load. 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:23.519 And other days where you haven't done all those things, you're still riding off the banana nut muffin from seven o'clock this morning, and the even the smallest thing feels just, oh, I can't. 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:24.559 It's too much. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:32.559 So that's why that denominator, like any good denominator, if your energy reserves get smaller, the load gets heavier. 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.960 And as your energy gets bolstered and whatever, the the load feels lighter. 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:42.480 So those are the three pieces: your cognitive demands, your emotional burdens, and your energy reserves. 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.039 That's what makes up your thought load. 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:48.960 I get that. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:55.919 Especially I was telling Sadie earlier, I just I had a very late night coming in at a late flight. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:01.440 And so trying to get my energy going at all today was a struggle, but I did. 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:03.120 Sound good. 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:08.960 Yeah, that's those are the days when you really have to plug into something that is intrinsically motivating, right? 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:18.720 You're like, oh, I'm doing the pod, I love these conversations, and then all of a sudden, humans are incredible in our ability to find energy when we need it. 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:23.360 But I think right now the problem is we're all trying to sprint a marathon. 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:34.159 And we think our bodies should be that level of responsive with energy when we never rest, we never recuperate, we never have time to reflect. 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:40.639 Like, why do we think that our bodies should every single time be willing to, like, here we go, right? 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:43.360 It's yes, it's nuts, it's nuts. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:51.200 My sister and I always talk about how we associate rest with laziness, not for anyone else, but for ourselves. 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:57.519 Our dad was a marine, our mom was a teacher, and there was always this go and move on to the next thing. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:05.120 And as adults now and as parents, we recognize that's a challenge, but we haven't been able to turn it off ourselves. 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:20.080 We've turned it off for the people around us, but not for ourselves to say it is impossible for our bodies to keep up, for our brains to keep up, and you've got to be organized about it and you have to prioritize these things, but it's very difficult to do. 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:33.919 Yeah, I think the Marines is a great example because they have thousands of scientists figuring out what are the routines that ensure that our forces have the energy they need when they need it, right? 00:16:34.159

--> 00:16:39.120 We have a false storyline in our heads that people like that don't rest. 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:40.399 Of course they do. 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:53.519 It's why there's leave, and it's why, and it's why in the armed forces recently on the aircraft carrier, they're saying, like, no, we know how often you need shore leave, how often you need all that to stay at peak performance. 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:58.320 I'm not sure why from the outside we tell ourselves these narratives that aren't true, right? 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:09.119 There may be this perception that even in war, they're still trying to figure out who rotates to the front line and who like all those things so that you can be at peak performance. 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.680 So Olympic athletes are the other ones. 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.359 So Olympic athletes are obsessed with rest, obsessed, right? 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:24.000 And so I'm not sure uh why we make up this fiction that high performers don't rest. 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.759 It's crap, it's just fiction, it's false. 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:34.480 And but what they do is they don't do wasteful rest, they do deliberate rest, right? 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.279 They do things that renew them. 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:44.640 And so, yeah, like flopping on the couch and watching TikTok, I'm willing to be like, okay, I'm gonna feel guilty about that. 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:53.119 But when I sit down on the couch and I read fiction, I'm doing it very intentionally for the value I get in raising my empathy. 00:17:53.359 --> 00:18:00.799 When I go for a walk in nature, I'm doing it very deliberately and intentionally because it lowers my blood pressure and it does a lot of other good things. 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.079 So yeah, I think we need a different story. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:11.279 And I think if you actually talk to any of these people, I've had the good fortune in my life to meet a bunch of astronauts, which is very cool. 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:18.400 And and yeah, this whole heroic view we have of them, they disabuse you of that very, very quickly. 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.000 They're like, oh no, we have to do this and this to make sure that our bodies can. 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:31.039 So I'm not sure why we can't figure out that actually peak performance requires renewable energy. 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.920 I feel like you see it with pilots and flight attendants and even truck drivers, right? 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.079 Mandated to have a certain amount of time off so that their bodies can fully rest. 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:49.839 You do not want to be on the interstate beside, and we've all been on the interstate beside a trucker who is pushing it or having fake logs or whatever, right? 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.880 It is deadly, incredibly unsafe. 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:53.440 Yeah. 00:18:53.680 --> 00:19:00.319 And we've all been beside somebody where the truck is swerving into your

lane and you're like, if this thing hits me, we're all dead. 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:01.440 You're probably okay. 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:09.359 So we have regulation in places where where we put somebody else's life on the line, like a pilot or things like that. 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:20.799 But like if you don't think that your performance is affecting your family, your kids, your co-workers, your customers when you're in that state, again, you're just making up fiction. 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:31.359 What would you say to organizational leaders who have sales floors, for example, where it is that hustle culture, everything seems urgent. 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:43.359 How would you advise organizational leaders to maybe change their culture a little bit and consider thought load and take on the responsibility of that focus for their employees or associates? 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:45.839 I think engage with the associates. 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:47.680 Talk to them what works. 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:50.160 I know, shocking advice, right? 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.000 Talk to them about what works. 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:53.599 Where does the energy lag? 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.279 What would make a difference? 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.759 Sometimes it's something as simple as could we put on different music in the back room? 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:05.680 So like I can get, or whatever, could we cover the floor differently at these certain times? 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:10.160 The one I think about all the time is my obstetrician when I had my kids. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:22.720 And they had moved away from the model of everybody gets to have their obstetrician do all of their care and deliver their baby, because she said if I do that, then I'm up in the night all the time. 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.960 I have no life, I have no predictability. 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.759 And then if somebody goes into labor and you were supposed to have a checkup, I'm not going to be there for your checkup. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:36.240 So they had whatever 20 OBGYNs work together in a pool and they took turns. 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:43.119 And so every appointment I went to, she saw me within five minutes of the appointment time with full care. 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:44.400 She was rested. 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:50.960 And then there would be a couple of weeks where or whatever, like whatever her schedule was, she would be delivering at that time. 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:52.480 And so, you know what? 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.880 I my combined labor for two children was approximately two and a half hours. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.759 Like, I don't care who was on the other end of the stirrups. 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:01.920 I'm like, I'm not really paying attention anyway. 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:13.279 So, like it because for 50 years since we'd really medicalized birth, we were in this paradigm that it had to be like the doctor for all of your checkups is the doctor that delivers your baby. 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:14.319 I'm like, why? 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:20.400 So we just so now this obstetrician has a a good life. 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.960 We're not losing people from the profession because it's an untenable life. 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.960 She has a good life with predictability. 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:34.640 She can stay on top of modern research, she all those things because this model makes her thought load manageable. 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:42.240 It's really interesting you say that specifically with the obstetrics, because I had preeclampsia that turned into an eclamtic seizure. 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:48.160 But because I had low blood pressure my whole life, it went undiagnosed for a long time. 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:48.559 Yeah. 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:56.799 And my doctor had his time off, and a different doctor saw me from a non-stress test and diagnosed me with it and induced me with my son. 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.799 Now I still had an eclamtic seizure, but when my doctor came, Came to see me. 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.000 He did make it to deliver my son, which I was grateful for. 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.599 But he told me, he's like, I don't know if I would have caught that. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:12.480 And I'm really glad that this other doctor was here and it was on his time. 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.599 He was fresh on his shift to something so small. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:17.279 So it's such a great point. 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:22.559 Yeah, we really get locked in these paradigms that aren't working for us. 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:28.079 And we need to just be able to stop and kind of think about it in the thought load framework. 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.720 What are the cognitive demands of this job? 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.279 How do we help manage the cognitive demands? 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.839 Where are the big emotional burdens coming in? 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:37.200 And what do we do with it? 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:39.279 How do we renew energy? 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:43.440 And there's micro resilience in your day, then there's over the midterm. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:51.599 We can actually manage all of this stuff so much more effectively, but we're into this mode of running on a hamster wheel. 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.599 And I really don't get it. 00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.160 I don't either. 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.119 Not working. 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.839 As I keep saying, work ain't working, people. 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:00.960 Work ain't working. 00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:07.359 And it's wild to see because people think that the the way that you're productive at work is the responsiveness. 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:16.319 Or if you're just doing all of the things but not producing anything, but you're always busy, they seem to think that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing at what? 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:17.440 But that's so

Rebecca. 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.440 You bring up a really, really important point, right? 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:26.000 And this is one of the first points in the book is we have got to chase outcomes, not outputs. 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:26.559 Yes. 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:32.880 And so if you think about it, you can pay attention to activity, how busy am I, how much am I doing? 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.960 You can pay attention to output, how much am I producing? 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:39.519 And you can pay attention to outcome. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:43.039 Did I change the world in the way I was hoping to change the world? 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:50.319 If you just pay attention to activity, like getting in the morning and responding to your emails, all you're gonna be is busy and burned out. 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:56.480 It's shift toward does that activity translate into an output? 00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:02.880 You're gonna become productive, but we are in a productivity trap right now. 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.279 People are producing so much stuff. 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:21.920 If you go on LinkedIn and look at what content marketers are producing these days, you're like, ah the question needs to shift to not how much output have we created, but did it move the needle on any of the outcomes that matter? 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:26.880 So only when we make that shift do we go from being productive to being effective. 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:32.319 And the problem is on the hamster wheel, we can produce a lot, right? 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.640 But it's a lot of stuff that's not moving the needle. 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:42.000 So, how do we start focusing on outcomes instead of outputs? 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:57.839 And that's where we're gonna see the difference because people who are rested and creative and reflective, they're much more likely to get the outcomes, probably producing less than what these slop factories are creating. 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:00.720 And AI is just exacerbating all of it, right? 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:05.279 It's just making it so easy to produce crap. 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:10.799 Now, how would you recommend for someone who you have multiple leaders that you report to? 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.759 So multiple output expectations. 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:23.599 And then sometimes there's that squeaky wheel syndrome where this person is too noisy and they're impacting my output. 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:28.400 So you need to address them immediately and get them off my plate and they're a superior. 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.240 And we see this a lot in the workplace. 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:32.640 Which, hey, can you just give Rebecca what she needs? 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.680 She won't leave me alone. 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:35.279 And now you're having to put that on. 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:44.000 So, how would you recommend people manage their output and their outcomes when they're in a multi-reporting structure or dual reporting structure? 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.000 And they have those kinds of situations. 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:46.559 Yeah. 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.559 So partly get out ahead of it, right? 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:59.440 So have the conversation with your manager about what the most important outcomes are, and then share with them here's what I see as the outputs I really need to be heads down on this week. 00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.119 If we're going to get there, would you agree? 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.680 And therefore, these are the activities I'm going to prioritize. 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:10.079 So get out ahead of it so that they know what you are working on and what value you are creating. 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:20.079 Then if the situation arises where you get pulled into something, then the first approach is to say to your manager, like, somebody's trying to pull me in on this. 00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:28.319 My sense is it really isn't as high a priority as what we had already agreed to because X, Y, and Z, Z, sorry. 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:31.039 There, I just Canadian to myself there, X, Y, and Z. 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:53.920 And then if they still say, I know, but she's really driving me crazy, you can be like, All right, you can use your one get out of jail free token, or you can you can not get yourself in trouble with your boss, but I wouldn't do it without making sure your boss knows that this is not a good choice, this is uh expedient choice, this is a right, yeah. 00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:02.559 But the best thing is to get out ahead so that when you're saying no to something, it's because everyone's clear you're saying yes to something more valuable. 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:12.720 So in that sense, in the workplace sense, what current workplace norm would you eliminate if you could today? 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.440 So the norm that your inbox is open all the time. 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.279 It is it's a hideously ineffective thing. 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:32.480 It means we are in this sort of scanning panic mode all the time, which will shut off any sense of flow in the work that you're doing. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.400 I think that norm is terrible. 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:48.720 I would love if the norm was look, I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna work for a couple of hours heads down, if it's your best time, but I'm gonna work for a bit and then I'll lift my head up and check my emails and have some time assigned to it. 00:27:48.960 --> 00:28:07.920 The the other thing that goes with that is I think the positive, if we can get rid of having our inboxes open all the time, what I would like to have is a deal with your colleagues that if you're sending it by email, you are accepting that I'm only gonna see it at 11 or 4 or something like that. 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:08.960 And that's okay. 00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:18.160 If you need me to see something in between my meetings or in between my chunks of

work, text it to me or use another format. 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:32.960 And if you need me to lift my head while I'm in a concentration session or in a meeting, then phone and I will put the do not disturb on so that if you phone me twice within two minutes, it will ring through, or that there's somebody who can always interrupt me. 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:39.680 But we don't have any of that triage of matching the communication mode to the urgency. 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:47.279 So we're following email as if the news of a fire in our store would come in through email. 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:52.480 No, you don't need to monitor email for urgent crises, right? 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.160 If there's a crisis, how about somebody phones you? 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:07.279 That's I would get rid of open inboxes and I would replace it with an agreement around triaging of different levels of urgency goes to different communication vehicles. 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:15.039 So then I know if I'm heads down and working for a couple of hours with everything turned off, I know that if I'm needed, people will get to me. 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.680 It's fine. 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.599 I'm reachable by phone, but I'm not reachable by text, I'm not reachable by email. 00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.839 I'm really I'm heads down. 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:29.279 So yeah, and then I that we know that the phone has to be out of your line of sight. 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.359 So another reason that's good is that the phone will ring and you will hear it. 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:42.799 But yeah, we need to reset for sure on our communication kind of protocols, and we need different tools for different sense of urgency. 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.920 I love that though, because I'm so guilty. 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:51.359 I have four or five different inboxes, and I typically have them open all day. 00:29:51.519 --> 00:30:01.119 Not that I respond to them all the time, but I do tend to respond relatively quickly and disrupt myself from focusing on what I'm focusing on all the time. 00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.839 Yeah, and you go or you need something in your email. 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:11.680 So you go in to get it, and then you have other things, and then all of a sudden you then all of a then you're chasing that trail somewhere and you're like, where was I? 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:12.559 Who am I? 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:15.119 What do I do for a living? 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:22.319 Yeah, yeah, I do I do that a lot where I'll be working on something, I need something else, and then I'm like 20 minutes into it. 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.359 Wait a second, I was not working on this, I don't need to focus on this. 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:31.680 Let me go back to what I was doing to finish it so I can be done with this task and not have the other three started. 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:38.400 One of the other hacks that I talk about is if you watch a cooking show, you know they have what they call mise en place, right? 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:45.599 So they have like all the cute little dishes with one teaspoon of tomato paste and a quarter of a cup of chopped onions. 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.640 They have mise en place, they have everything ready. 00:30:48.880 --> 00:31:00.400 So when they start to cook, you don't go to we've all done it trying not to bother preparing in advance, and you put the garlic in, and then it's within 30 seconds, put the whole diced onion. 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.240 You're like, I'm not gonna have time to dice the onion now, and the garlic's burned. 00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.480 And so we want to do mise en place when we're working as well. 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:18.640 Because if we don't, then all of a sudden we have a whole bunch of you're like, Oh, I just need to Google something and open some tabs, and oh, I need to go into my email or into this Teams folder. 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:24.559 Every single time we do any of those things, we are very likely to go snakes and ladders right down the line. 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:28.240 Grab what you need, put it all on your desktop, right? 00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:34.799 Cook whatever you need to cook, and then put back the things off your counter, clean your counter, clean your desktop. 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:39.920 Mise en place would make us much more efficient than what we actually are. 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.200 Oh, I just need this one report somebody sent me in my inbox. 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:44.240 Gone. 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:45.599 Plus, mise en place. 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.119 When you're cooking, I love all the cute little, fun, little tiny dishes and dishes of different sizes and all of that. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:32:01.680 So I'm like, okay, how do I imagine my desktop as things new little dishes all ready for me to just whoop, I'll take this research and I'll take this paragraph from something else I'd already written and I have the photos ready to put in. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.920 And yeah, exactly. 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.119 I'm gonna do that and time myself on some tasks this weekend. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.359 See how you need to get one of these. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:11.759 So I don't know if you've ever seen these. 00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:13.759 This is a time timer, it's called. 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.759 It's made for kids with ADHD. 00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:20.079 It's to help with their morning routines, and it's like totally analog. 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:26.880 When I'm trying to do a Pomodoro block of like, I need to work on this for 45 minutes without stopping. 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.319 This is my friend. 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:33.759 I really love my time timer right beside you can see how far away it is from me, right here, all the time. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:40.319 So that and so analog, so deliciously analog, I don't have to touch my phone or anything else. 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:45.680

And uh, I'm not allowed to stop in my flow block until it beeps. 00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.440 It does have a hilarious little cheap beep on it. 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.880 Yeah, highly recommend my time timer. 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:56.079 I just I got it online. 00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:58.319 So going back to basics. 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.480 Absolutely, yeah. 00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:10.799 So Leanne, when you think about highly ambitious people, what would a healthy, ambitious career look like through that thought load lens? 00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:15.279 Yeah, you know when we talk about, oh, like I wish I had a faster metabolism. 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:24.720 So we think about when we eat a big meal, we know that we need to stop eating so that we can digest and metabolize what we've eaten. 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.839 And that's what makes us healthy, right? 00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:35.759 What we don't think about is we need to metabolize our thought load just as much as we need to metabolize our food. 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:46.000 And so highly ambitious people should strive to have a high thought load metabolism so I can take in a lot. 00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.519 I can then pull out what are the nutrients from what I took in. 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:53.279 I went to a conference, great. 00:33:53.359 --> 00:34:06.480 What I was just speaking in a keynoting at a conference last week, and I was saying to them, make some space, make some time to think about what are my big takeaways, what insights, what relationship did I make that I want to follow up on, right? 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.199 What are the nutrients I can extract? 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.360 That's one part of metabolism. 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:15.119 The second part is what's waste that I can just flush? 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:22.239 What are all the things, competitor information or you know, stuff I heard people talking about that I like, I don't need that. 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:23.039 That's not me. 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:24.880 I'm that's I'm not responsible for that. 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.480 Woof, flush, bye-bye. 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:31.440 And then the third thing we do in metabolism is we process anything toxic. 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.239 And so what stories am I telling myself? 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:47.679 Maybe it's perfectionism or imposter syndrome or conflict avoidance, or but what am I telling myself a story about a meeting I had early in the week that's bringing me down or getting in the way of a healthy relationship? 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:56.239 So a high, highly ambitious person should be thinking about how do I up my thought load metabolism? 00:34:56.480 --> 00:35:04.400 And so, what a highly ambitious person can do to do that is figure out a what deserves to be in my thought load and what doesn't. 00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:11.519 So do being much more aggressive and assertive and ruthless about this is what I'm here to add value on. 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:17.840 People who aren't very ambitious and they take on all the tasks in the team that don't get valued. 00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:18.480 Yes. 00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:23.199 They're like taking the notes and making the follow-up and like, yeah, nobody's giving you any credit for that. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.559 That's that's nothing, right? 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:34.320 So you focus your thought load on what really matters, what is worth my attention, what is worth being emotionally invested in, what is worth using my energy on. 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:38.320 A highly ambitious person gets their thought load ruthlessly focused on the right stuff. 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.480 And the second thing is they stop eating sometimes. 00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:53.360 So they recognize that they will need places to stop taking in new input so that they can actually metabolize and digest what's already in there. 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.079 So highly ambitious people, they journal. 00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:04.639 They, you look at the Warren Buffett's of the world, big huge chunks of time in the calendar to think and write things and work on crafting the thoughts. 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:12.719 Lots of those highly successful people have some kind of fitness meditation, something routine where there's some time of nothing in their day. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:19.840 So that's how I want you to think about a highly ambitious person is somebody with a high thought load metabolism. 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:30.800 They can take in a lot, pull out what's nutritious, flush, flush what's wasteful, and get through those toxic narratives much more quickly than the rest of folks. 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:32.559 I love that. 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:35.199 I have to take a personal note for that. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:39.760 Oh, honey, we all have to take a personal note for that. 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:53.599 There's definitely one who would want to take on more and more, and I would grow and grow very quickly, but I didn't realize I was burning out until it was almost too late from a health perspective. 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.679 You probably also weren't bringing the best insights to the table. 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:03.360 So when you try and seize all the opportunities, you usually don't seize any of them, right? 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.639 Taking on more and more. 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:08.719 There are short bursts in our careers where we can do that. 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:20.719 But for the most part, you when you're doing that, when you never stop eating, you never pull out the nutrients, you never get the insight, you never get what's really unique. 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.000 It's not just a burnout thing, it's also a value add. 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:34.000 How much value you can add usually depends on the chance to digest what's in there, rest, reflect, make connections between things. 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:35.519 Yeah. 00:37:35.840

--> 00:37:42.159 I think highly ambitious, speedy people, you can find the thing that works for you and do it regularly. 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:56.880 And I just was telling Rebecca before you joined us today that I was like, oh, I had to really look at my calendar going into fourth quarter and say, I've got to get back to some of the things I was doing that were just helping me metabolize better. 00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:57.679 Recommit. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:58.719 Yeah, recommit. 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:06.480 So it's funny because fast, busy people, they'll often tell me a story that they're like, yeah, but Leanne, I get a lot of shit done. 00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:07.519 I'm like, do you? 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.519 Or do you just do a lot of shit? 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:09.920 Oh. 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:12.880 And so it's that activity versus output. 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:18.079 And lots of speedy people like pride themselves in feeling speedy. 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.559 And when I look, I'm like, no, they're not actually getting that much done. 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:26.400 And even if they're getting stuff done, is it the stuff that's moving the needle? 00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:31.760 So yeah, what we want is for you to get to the destination fast. 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:33.119 Yes. 00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:39.039 But going fast does not always get you to the destination fast, right? 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:42.320 So it's asking yourself those hard questions. 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.880 Am I getting shit done or am I just doing a lot of shit? 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:50.960 When Katie and I used to work together, she'd always tell me that I'd have to slow, I'd have to slow down to be able to go fast. 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.119 And it's really, really good advice. 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:53.519 Yeah. 00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.400 I do move very quickly and then I would make mistakes. 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:15.760 And so I've learned to slow down, not just immediately respond to emails or submit some kind of uh numbers or something without actually slowing down, really looking at them and then sending them because yeah, that's when the mistakes would always happen. 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:16.639 Yeah. 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:23.199 So the thing that I'm I talk a lot about now is like what, so what, now what? 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.800 And a lot of our speedy people go from what to now what. 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.760 And they miss the insight in the middle. 00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:38.880 So what we want is to move efficiently from what did I just learn or what happened or what's the data or whatever else to so what? 00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:40.559 What do I need to take from this? 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:41.519 What matters here? 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:42.880 What doesn't matter here? 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:43.920 What's this about? 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:45.679 What would make a difference? 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.119 To have the insight

before going to okay, now I'm going to do this. 00:39:51.599 --> 00:40:00.400 And so that putting the so what back in our world, especially if you're a speedy person, is one of the most important things. 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:03.039 And so just using that as your mantra, okay, what? 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:04.559 So what now what? 00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:11.280 And just catching yourself when you try and go from what to now what, because that's that is definitely the inclination. 00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:14.800 I gotta I gotta go, I gotta act, I gotta move. 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:21.920 And if I hear one more executive give me the line about my people need a greater sense of urgency, I'm like, oh my god. 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:23.840 Everybody says that's so ridiculous. 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:24.960 It's so painful. 00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:40.320 I'm like, no, what they need is to know which one thing right now they need a sense of urgency about because what you're doing is you're creating a sense of urgency for 50 things, and that's what's creating this kind of whack-a-mole crazy culture that we've got. 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:50.239 So it's not that the overall sense of urgency isn't there, it's they have just learned helplessness of trying to feel urgent about 50 things at once. 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:57.039 Tell them the one thing where you need to see them act with urgency and insight, and now we're talking. 00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:58.320 Yeah, I love that. 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:03.280 I'm gonna hurt the next person who tells me that we need a greater sense of urgency. 00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:04.800 Can't stand it. 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:09.199 If you came, remember when you were saying earlier, go talk to your people, right? 00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:10.559 Ask them what's going on. 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:18.719 I feel like sometimes executives, if you spent more time watching what your people are doing every day or how much they have to respond to, you wouldn't say that to them. 00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:34.320 And it just goes back to when talking to your people, if you're meeting with them for 101s once a week or every other week, aren't you talking to them about what they're working on, what's going on, what's halted because they don't have access to certain things. 00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:35.760 We don't have those conversations. 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:37.760 What are we talking about in those 101s then? 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.679 So what I've seen lately is people bring in their really long to-do list. 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.000 Yeah. 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:45.360 And it's really just an operations update. 00:41:45.840 --> 00:42:00.800 So it's nothing about the person's thought load, about how well positioned they are, what they need to focus on, their most important outcomes, what they're emotionally processing and where they need help with that, what's the right cadence to renew their energy. 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.239 No, those are the

things we need to be talking about in our one-on-ones. 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:13.519 First of all, this I did a LinkedIn post recently because a couple of big corp execs, Jensen Wang and among them, came out saying, I don't have one-on-ones. 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:21.039 If my people there, my people are grown-ups, if they need something, they can come to me and like, oh my God, it's just totally missing the whole point. 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:27.039 So there is more of this kind of going around at the moment that like grown-ups don't need one-on-ones. 00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:28.320 I'm like, wrong. 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:30.320 So some people aren't having them. 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:35.679 The people who are having them, they're just operations, updates, check off the box. 00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:41.199 It's not actually about setting somebody up to perform effectively. 00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:41.840 Yeah. 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.880 As a leader, your role is to set your team up for success. 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.480 And if you're not setting them up for success, you're setting them up for failure. 00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:52.960 And so by not having those conversations, you're totally missing an opportunity. 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:54.639 Agree 100%. 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:55.280 Yeah. 00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:56.400 Wow. 00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:03.199 Well, Ian, that sort of leads us into your thought load audit and the overwhelm assessment that you have. 00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:11.360 If you were to guide our listeners as a starting point, if they're listening and they're going, oh my goodness, my thought load is so high. 00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:11.679 Yeah. 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:20.320 How do they figure out whether it's attention, emotion, or energy where they should intervene first and what would be their next steps? 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:33.199 Yeah, it's not a feed quiz and it's not going to tell you which princess you are, but we do have this awesome little assessment to help you understand how high your thought load is and whether it's coming more from your attention, your emotions, or your energy. 00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:34.400 So that's really fun. 00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:42.800 And when you do that, then we have a whole bunch of free resources to help you start to get a handle on that one that's your highest before you move on to the others. 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:44.719 So that's the thought load audit. 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:53.280 Then, because we each show our overwhelm in different ways, there's a fun overwhelm assessment that helps you understand. 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.360 Do you tend to be more of a whirlwind? 00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:05.199 That's you guys when you're talking about all that action for the sake of action, or are Are you a stickler, which is when you get really overwhelmed, you become the person who goes back to the real book? 00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:05.840 Rulebook. 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.079 As per my email

of April 27th, um, you go back to something. 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:11.360 We all know one of those, right? 00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:13.519 Or you're like me, you're a brooder. 00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:19.760 And when you get overwhelmed, you turn into eeure, you're like, anybody seen my tail. 00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:27.920 Or you're a rogue, which is when you get overwhelmed by the rules and the bureaucracy, you just ignore the rules and find your own way. 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:45.280 And so that assessment's really helpful because it'll help you figure out not only what your overwhelm looks like and help you talk with your colleagues and your friends about different ways overwhelm shows up, but it also leads you to the tools for how to manage your own particular kind of overwhelm. 00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.400 So those are great fun, they're free for everybody to use. 00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:54.960 And then many of the tools to fix whatever you learn are also there and available for everybody. 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.760 As we're rounding out the episode, can you also tell us about Thought World? 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:00.320 Yeah. 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.159 Oh, Thought World's so fun. 00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:12.239 So when I was thinking about these readers, these folks who are just drowning because their thought load is so heavy. 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:16.559 You can imagine that when I first had the thought of, you know what they need? 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:17.599 A book. 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:19.920 I did laugh at myself, right? 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:28.400 Because, like, said no one ever when they're feeling overwhelmed is what I need is a nonfiction book, maybe really thick and hardcover, right? 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:34.639 So I set this expectation for myself and my editor and my designer. 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:40.400 I said, What if we made the book just like throwing them a life ring? 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:44.719 And the book is just enough to make you feel like I feel seen. 00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.239 I feel like I have just a few things to get my head above water. 00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:53.679 And then what if all the stuff to really go further with it was once they got on shore? 00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.960 So I wrote a book designed to be buoyant. 00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.599 No section is more than four pages. 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.719 Everything is built to be very readable. 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:07.679 It's a soft cover so that it's so that it's not heavy to throw in your bag. 00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:15.840 It's and it's there's no page layout that doesn't have a visual breakup so that it doesn't feel daunting to read. 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.559 So we did all of that, but that meant, oh, now we need to actually create the world on land. 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:25.840 Where and so thought world is the world on land, if you want to put it into practice. 00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.719 And it's it is now so full. 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:35.760 So there are 60 different resources in each of the categories of attention, emotions, and energy. 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:47.519 And then the fun thing we've just launched is if reading a book still, even though it's the world's most buoyant book, if reading a book feels like too much, we're just launching the Thought Load curriculum. 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:57.840 And every section of the book, so the 24 little pieces of the book are each in a four-minute video with a downloadable tool to just do it that way. 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:03.920 And so over the next six months, you can do one idea a week, four-minute video and a worksheet. 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.480 And so all of that is all on Thought World. 00:47:06.559 --> 00:47:08.159 And Thought World is also a community. 00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:15.039 So you can chat with other folks going through the same thing, chat with me as we all help each other navigate this. 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:17.280 So I'm really proud of Thought World. 00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:31.039 It's a whole place for those of us who are tired of work not working, tired of going home from work with no gas in the tank, tired of not feeling that sense on a Friday afternoon that wow, I did something really meaningful this week. 00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:36.880 So we all have one another to support each other and the tools to change that for the better. 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:37.840 We love that. 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.000 I think Rebecca already started it and then she got on me today to join. 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:43.679 Yeah, please come join. 00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:45.840 That was last week, right? 00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:46.719 That was last week. 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:47.519 Yeah, yeah. 00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:47.840 Yeah. 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.000 And then I also am just gonna confirm the book is a very it is a quick read. 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:56.320 It's very easy to read, and it does, it gives you all the tools within the book too. 00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:58.639 But I'm excited about Thunderbone as well. 00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:09.280 So yeah, if you can watch three TikToks, you can watch a whole chapter in four minutes and then get the tool right there to download to to put it into action. 00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:16.960 So it's like I always think about when you're accountants, if you could put away one Starbucks latte a week, you would have savings for I feel like that. 00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:17.840 Three TikToks. 00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:19.760 Just three TikToks a week. 00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:22.800 You two can do it. 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:24.320 You too can do it. 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.320 So, Liam, where is the best place for our listeners to follow you, connect with you? 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:38.960 Thoughtload.com will get you to a spot that has the link to the quizzes, to Thought World. 00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.320 If you can get to Thoughtload.com, you can get the goodness. 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:48.559 And then if you can cope with the I's and the E's and whatever, you can find me on LinkedIn and connect with me there. 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:50.639 Liam, thank you so much. 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:52.880 This has been such an invaluable conversation. 00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.159 There's so many takeaways from our listeners and us too. 00:48:56.400 --> 00:48:59.760 We really appreciate you, and we will see you next time. 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:00.559 Wonderful. 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:01.199 Thanks so much. 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.000 Thanks, Rebecca. 00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:02.639 Thanks, Tim. 00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.320 Follow us on all your socials, NFNA Podcast. 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:07.679 Until next time.