CAVO Ep 98: Navigating Connection, Boundaries, and Self-Care in Remote Work의 전체 녹취록

called Value Options, and I worked at home once or twice a week. 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:36.319 I think it was once a week to start, and then you know, that that flexibility started to become, it was the very beginning of that being popular, but you know, healthcare companies like to be at the forefront of offering benefits that that really like we sold, we sold uh work-life balance to people. 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.240 We sold programs to help people do that. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:42.319 So we were trying to implement them before it became very popular, you know. 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:50.720 So um, that was the only time I as an employee worked remotely, but I shifted into being a consultant right after that. 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:57.120 So around 2013, um, I've been a consultant uh for these healthcare companies. 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:06.399 So what I do, um what I do, what my company does is we help companies, um, healthcare companies win business. 00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.759 So we do business development and proposal management for healthcare companies. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:17.360 And I focus mostly on winning Medicaid contracts for healthcare companies. 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:27.680 So doing the project management and the writing, editing, um, and the production of these, you know, multi-million and multi-billion dollar contracts. 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:33.439 It's highly competitive, it's um it's extremely deadline driven. 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:41.920 And um as a consultant, you really got to be at the top of your game and know um know the work really well. 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.480 That's what companies you know hire us for. 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.839 So that's a little bit about what I do. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:57.199 Um and I can give a little bit more about my background and why I'm interested in you know remote work and boundaries and self-care. 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:01.279 So so that's sort of like the business side of what I do. 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.920 Um, I also have a background in counseling. 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:18.879 So I've got a master's in counseling, and um I started a PhD program and uh I got you know licensure hours, uh, classes toward licensure hours and some of the PhD um classes under my belt. 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:27.120 But I stopped there um with my education to become a counselor because this proposal work sort of like took over my life. 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:31.680 I really loved the you know, the administrative side of healthcare. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:35.199 Um, and it also offered me a lot of flexibility. 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:52.959 So, you know, when I was doing um counseling work and seeing clients one-on-one, I thought, you know, I really like this and I really like helping people, but doing that five days a week um felt a little bit like it might be a little draining for me. 00:07:53.360 --> 00:08:05.519 So um, and I had uh some other life circumstances that kind of required

me to choose the work, um, the proposal work and keep moving with my life. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:06.879 That's like a whole other story. 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:13.519 But anyway, so I've always been interested in business and I've always been interested in, you know, helping professions like teaching. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:19.279 So I taught yoga for a little while, practiced yoga for like over 20 years. 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:24.399 So I've always had a focus on helping people and self-care. 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:43.360 And I think, you know, like as a young person, I always like when I was in my teens and 20s, I was always kind of searching for the thing, like the physical exercise or the thing to really engage in, to like um ground myself, to feel physically vibrant. 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:51.039 Because when I feel grounded and physically vibrant, I am so much better at the work that I do. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:09:01.519 You know, like I always think about how, you know, um doing yoga, if you're moving your body all the time, the yogis did yoga so that they could sit and meditate. 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:17.919 And it kind of makes me laugh because you know, doing yoga makes it easier to sit at a computer and do work because your body is like so prepped and ready and doesn't get sore, and um you really can sustain these like long hours doing editing or something on a computer. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.240 So I kind of see that parallel. 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:44.320 Um but yeah, so I, you know, I think it's be I I'm interested in in this because I've been I've been doing it and I've seen the ebb and the flow of how, you know, when you're at least for me, if I am practicing self-care regularly, it helps me be a better worker. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:48.720 Um, and so like I said in the beginning, you know, I've kind of let go of that a little bit. 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:53.519 I think I've been tending to my dog and like, oh, I just want to hang out with him, I won't go work out. 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:56.080 But I'm starting to, it's only been like four or five months. 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:05.039 So I'm starting to see that when I get out of my self-care practice and I let my boundaries go, I don't feel as good. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:12.159 You know, like I'm still here getting my work done and like meeting my goals and everything at work, but I just don't feel as good. 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:23.519 So I'm really interested, and my whole career I've always been interested in, you know, how to help people, how to have optimal performance and um living it and talking about it. 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:36.000 Hopefully it will just help others and um, you know, just contribute to the tools that everybody can use because this is so much more common, you know, working remotely is so much more common now than it used to be. 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:39.200 It is a lot more common. 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:49.840 And I I love all the things you just said, um, especially for those of our listeners who are also working with different teams. 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:55.200 Um, you know, it's it's a nice adventure sometimes, but it can make it really difficult to create connections. 00:10:55.279 --> 00:11:03.519 So the things you're talking about, you know, mind, body, connection for yourself kind of prepares you to make that connection with other people sometimes, right? 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:04.320 Yeah. 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:04.879 Yeah. 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:22.000 So I I I would like to start by asking you how you intentionally foster connection in the remote environment, like especially on those days when it feels difficult, you know, the days that you, you know, you said that as a consultant, you have to be at the top of your game. 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:31.120 And and I know that I don't always feel like I'm at the top of my game, but you know, you got to walk in that room and you have to to to do the things to connect with your team. 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.919 So um how do you do that? 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:58.000 I was thinking about this and I thought, you know, at first I wanted to answer and say something about connecting with my actual team, you know, like the people I'm I'm employed to work with for these six months or three months, however, my my contracts are usually, you know, um half a year or four or five months or something. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:00.080 And and then, you know, it's it's over. 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:14.159 It's sort of like it's sort of like people on a Broadway show or like in a you know, in a film, you're you're with these people and you're in the trenches for a few months, you get really close, and then you say goodbye, and maybe you're on a project again, you know, two years later or something. 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:24.159 So, so first of all, like for my work, someone who isn't going to be an employee with a company for many, many years, um, you know that there's an end, right? 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:57.679 So when you think about that model, the consultant model, not the employee model, it's really important if you decide to work as a consultant to when you start a project, you know, if you connect with anybody just because you're on a call together or maybe you're working on um you're working on some things together, connect with them on LinkedIn, um, exchange cell phone numbers, send them a text because chances are, like I I've worked with people this year that I worked with in 2007, you know. 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:09.919 So, and maybe I I had seen their name in on other projects, but you know, this year and maybe like in 2022 or something, you know, they were on a project with me and we said we were like, oh, I remember you, you know. 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:16.879 So it's important to really just be on good terms and stay connected to people. 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.639 But more specifically, I think this is where I went. 00:13:20.720 -->

00:13:24.159 I was like, what actually what do I actually do when I'm feeling that way? 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:38.879 And it's not always reaching out to people that I'm working with, it's reaching out to a mentor that I have that has hired me, or um someone that I love to work with who might be on a different project with a different company. 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:52.000 Um so, you know, it's like I'll I'll be on a meeting and I'll hear something funny, and maybe I'll text my co-worker from 10 years ago who ended up being a friend of mine. 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.879 Or I'll say, Hey, I just heard this thing and we have an inside joke about it. 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.200 And I'll say, Hey, do you do you have time for a call today? 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:04.720 Do you have like a half hour we can just chit-chat about our projects and like exchange stories? 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:15.919 And and so reaching for me, it's really helpful to reach out to people that I'm not working with, but that do work similar to what what I do. 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:35.279 So we can kind of like vent to each other or you know, encourage each other to do, like, you know, take a new um do a seminar, or you know, we end up talking about like like actually right now there's um a conference happening in Nashville, and I chose not to go. 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:40.799 Um so you know, maybe we'll talk about that and how we'd like to go next year. 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:52.080 So what works for me is not only reaching out to people that I'm working with, but keeping a list of people, just uh it could be one person. 00:14:52.159 --> 00:15:07.519 In my case, it's like it's two main people that I've worked with a lot that I love to reach out to, text, call, and just talk about work because um, you know, it's almost like a therapy session where you get to vent and exchange ideas and help each other. 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:16.559 So I I say um it's important to yeah, talk to people outside of work that might that might do something similar to what you do. 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:23.919 Yeah, you know, I love that um because we talk about struggling with being lonely when we're working remotely. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:29.600 But um, you know, you're right, you you make those connections over the course of time. 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.120 Um and and I love that you can go back and connect with them. 00:15:35.519 --> 00:16:11.759 I I'm wondering if maybe there are some listeners out there who might have trouble um initiating connection, you know, like you know, I'm thinking maybe, you know, if somebody is is new at this and is shy or um, you know, but maybe doesn't feel uh confident enough to open their mouth and even say anything to to somebody that they're working with, what is one like small step that somebody could take today to feel a little bit more connected and start building those, you know, relationships that you're talking about? 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:13.519 Yeah. 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:24.000 God, that's such a that's a hard question to answer in a way, because I think, you know, like I'm I'm speaking from my perspective, right? 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:26.240 And I'm an extrovert. 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:35.120 I'm naturally, I've my whole life I've just been naturally um inclined to to say hello to someone or to reach out. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:49.679 I I did have times in my life when I when I felt a little bit more shy, but um I know it it feels like it's just too easy to say, give it a try and do that, you know, take a step, send a text, send an email, and see what happens. 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:59.919 Because I I think you know that that would be my advice to just try it, because you'd be surprised um that people are are also eager to connect. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:12.000 So if you're wondering if they will or if they won't, it's always it's always okay to, you know, send a text, send a, you know, a chat, something to to connect with somebody. 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:17.039 Um and you know, if they're not responsive, then you've got your answer. 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:21.839 And you know, maybe it's just not the right time or the right person, but you know, don't give up. 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:30.720 Don't give up because you will find people that you connect with and and like, you know, listen to your intuition too. 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:37.039 It's it really does help guide us to, you know, be around the right people. 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:39.519 Yeah, I I love that. 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:40.400 I love that you said that. 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:45.200 Keep trying, because especially in the remote world where we can't, you know, we don't have that. 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:47.200 Everybody talks about the water cooler talk. 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:55.200 We don't have the um opportunity to see people's expressions or their, you know, their body language or things like that. 00:17:55.359 --> 00:18:02.160 And we're kind of reaching out just hoping that whoever's on the other side will want to connect, but we don't know what's happening with them. 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:08.640 And so um, you know, I love that you say keep trying because today is one day and tomorrow is a different day. 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.960 Um so thank you for for that piece of advice. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:33.119 Um I kind of want to go back to talking about caring for ourselves because I think also a big theme that comes into what you're talking about, you know, being able to try again tomorrow is making sure that we have filled ourselves up first. 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:41.759 Um, because we won't get as upset or sad if someone doesn't respond the way that we hope that they will if we have cared for ourselves, right? 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:51.359 So um I know you said a little bit earlier about self-care looking different now than when you first started working remotely. 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:59.599 Um, but I'm

curious if you've ever uh have you felt guilty setting boundaries or taking breaks while working? 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:06.480 Um, you know, what how does how does self-care fit into your daily routine, you know, then or now? 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.440 Oh, yeah. 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.359 Oh, that's such a good question. 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.920 Um Wow, okay. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:18.000 Well, I have to point out, like I talked about earlier, um I am not an employee. 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:31.200 So I the rules that I have, and that, you know, when I take on other people to work for me for a healthcare company, our rules as a consultant or contractor are different than an employee's. 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.200 So let me paint the picture. 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:47.039 So an employee might be required to, you know, be available from nine to five or whatever their hours are, if they're part-time, you know, it's like you've got to be available from these hours, you know, this hour to that hour. 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:58.960 And um, and I from what I understand, there is more flexibility now for people, you know, if they've got to tend to things in their lives during that time. 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:07.920 And I think just as it would be for an employee as a consultant, it's really important to be transparent about what you're doing. 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:15.200 So, like today, um everything that I do is measured. 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:23.440 So I log into my, you know, my current client's website, and they've got logs of when I'm logging in and logging out. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.960 So they know that how many hours I'm working, they can measure it. 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.680 I also have to report it and give them a report every week about how many hours I worked each day. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:39.440 And for some people, I've got a log, you know, a list of activities that I did or what I tended to. 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:54.400 So I think for me, um, this is gonna this is gonna go into something else that I've got a recommendation about, but which is understanding, you know, what model works for you best, being an employee, being a consultant, because they're different. 00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:15.920 Um, I really love the consulting model because having a deadline-driven um responsibility, it really um it really gets to like this competitive spirit that's inside of me. 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.000 And I'm like, oh, I want to be the best, I want to do it well, and I want to meet my deadline. 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:38.720 So it gives me energy to have these um constraints but and these deadlines, but it also the rules are that, you know, if I want to go in the middle of the day and be gone for three hours and tend to something, I can do that. 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.720 Some projects are like that and some aren't. 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:49.359 So I uh right now I happen to be on a project where I'm I'm doing a lot of writing and editing, um, and I don't have a lot of meetings. 00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:53.599 So I'm structuring my days so that I I have goals. 00:21:53.839 --> 00:22:08.799 And in this case, they're like, as long as every week you're meeting this goal that actually I set for myself, um, we we don't care if you're working at two in the morning or 9 a.m., just get it done. 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:28.079 So I love that kind of structure because it allows for a lot of freedom, you know, like like I don't have to be out on a Saturday when there's like traffic and busy things happening, I can, you know, take a break on a Tuesday and go get my grocery shopping done and come home when the stores are, you know, not filled with people. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:29.599 So I really love that. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:36.799 But I think, you know, like so I I guess to answer the question about have you felt guilty? 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:47.039 Well, if you're transparent and just block your calendar and you know show that you're gone for those hours, it eliminates the guilt. 00:22:47.279 --> 00:23:07.359 So I I guess just you know, know the rules, know the culture, and then um make sure you just like I'm very deadline driven and I I can I like that kind of um flexibility in the in the structure because if anything, it just makes me um I get things done faster. 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:13.119 It really drives me to to get things done so that I can so that I can reward myself. 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:21.440 Like my I'm giving myself the reward of being able to leave the house on a sunny afternoon, you know, from noon to two. 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:33.759 Um so I really like I guess you know it really eliminates the the guilt that one might feel if you've got to go tend to something. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.440 Um and I I don't know, it does does that does that make sense? 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:41.599 It does, it makes perfect sense. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:51.359 And um I feel like for anyone who is listening today who has not realized that you can invite yourself to a meeting and accept it. 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.000 Yeah, this might be a good time to start doing that. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:57.839 I I do it, I'll say it. 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.599 Um, you know, like there are times where I have things I need to do. 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:27.359 And um, you know, the part of the beauty of working remotely is as long as you're getting your work done, usually for most people, um, there aren't any questions about, you know, what what that meeting is on your calendar or why you're gonna be gone for an hour and a half in the middle of the day, or you know, and um that's what helps me take the guilt away because my calendar is up to date. 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:28.880 Yes, yes. 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:33.759 I I think that the calendar, you know, Outlook is such an important tool. 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:41.680 And that the transparency that that offers, you know,

that's that's something in the beginning of the here's some advice. 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.000 In the beginning of every project, I always talk to people about how they like to communicate. 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:50.960 And I like to say to them things like, um, I'm very transparent. 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:56.400 I always, you know, I use my calendar to block time that, you know, I'm not available. 00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:17.680 I'll even, you know, on my weekly meetings, I'll on an agenda, I'll put in an agenda item to just say, hey, is do we have any reminders that we have to um, you know, I know that everybody's documenting when they're out of the office, but are there is there anything coming up that somebody just wants to highlight so that we can all kind of, you know, go we haven't talked about it today, but learning styles are very important to me. 00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:23.920 So, you know, hearing something is very different than seeing it in writing for most people. 00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:34.079 So when you kind of layer the learning styles and you hear it and you see it, and you're reminded about it, that what that's how I define good communication. 00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:42.880 You know, it's repetition and showing it in different ways so that people remember and they can't say, you know, I didn't hear, I didn't know about that. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:52.720 Because you you've got to give people, I think, a couple, you've got to provide information in a few different ways sometimes so that everyone gets it. 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.440 So that's another piece of advice that that's worked for me. 00:25:58.480 --> 00:25:59.759 I think that's great. 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:07.839 Um, and I I think it's a very valuable thing for us to file in our memories, exactly what you just said. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:26.480 Um and and speaking of advice, if you could give one piece of advice to someone starting remote work about balancing productivity, connecting with other people, and making sure they're taking care of their own well-being, what would it be? 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.519 I know that's a difficult question, I think, but I feel like it's a good one to end on. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:35.440 It is, it is. 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:38.799 So one piece of advice for someone just starting out. 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:47.039 So maybe they're either coming into a new career as an older person or they're a younger person starting. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:55.200 I think I think when you I'll go back to something I I just talked about. 00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:10.880 I think when you're coming into any new environment, any new team, and you're working in a remote situation, it's really good to ask, you know, hey, what's the culture of of the way that we work in on this team? 00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:12.319 You know, what works? 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:19.599 Has has anyone ever misinterpreted what remote work is and and what was not good about that? 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:24.559 How you know, ask what was good, what worked and what didn't work so that you don't make the same mistakes. 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:32.559 And then, you know, just stay rooted in good communication and be very transparent with with everyone. 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:37.599 And I think that that's like a good, a good base to to start with. 00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:41.440 Uh you know, I love that. 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:42.640 Um, I love it. 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:56.000 And it takes me back to uh my beginning in remote work when my beautiful friend Gary said, you don't have to, you don't have to do what you're doing right now. 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:56.480 Wow. 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:04.799 If only I had had the foresight to ask how we do things, um, I probably could have saved myself a lot of anxiety. 00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:05.519 So thank you. 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:07.119 That is a beautiful piece of advice. 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:14.160 And I I hope that it helps everyone else as much as it helps my uh 15-year-old go brain. 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.240 Oh, Rachel, thank you. 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.759 Thank you so much for being here and sharing so openly with us. 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:27.839 Um, you know, these conversations really do matter, and I know our listeners are gonna take away a lot from what you've shared. 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.359 So thank you for your time and your energy today. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:32.880 You're welcome. 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.079 Thanks for having me. 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:38.079 And um this has been a great reminder for me too. 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:42.799 So thank you, and I hope you have a great week. 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:44.960 Thank you, you too.