Beyond "Just Get Outside": Raising Kids Who Notice & Marvel | Erin Lyum (Bonus Episode)의 전체 녹취록

04:13.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely. 04:13.929 --> 04:14.230 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:14.670 --> 04:14.930 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 04:14.990 --> 04:17.812 [SPEAKER_00]: So you do have a couple of books coming out, which is really cool. 04:18.073 --> 04:28.902 [SPEAKER_00]: You have one called where Wonder leads an adventure in God's wild and wonderful world and then the other one is made to marvel 52 family devotions exploring the wild wonders of God's creation. 04:28.922 --> 04:36.368 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to just hear from the beginning why it has been something outside of being a natural as but why was this something that drew your attention. 04:37.918 --> 04:38.218 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 04:38.318 --> 04:45.845 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I grew up camping and hiking and spending time outdoors, but somewhere along the way, I just really lost my lore with nature. 04:45.865 --> 04:47.907 [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather be indoors and outdoors. 04:47.967 --> 04:53.292 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this was really like late high school through college, even into getting married. 04:53.312 --> 04:54.654 [SPEAKER_01]: And my husband is an outdoorsman. 04:54.694 --> 04:57.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he grew up spending his days in the wilderness. 04:57.376 --> 04:58.818 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is really his heartbeat. 04:59.598 --> 05:05.340 [SPEAKER_01]: and when we started having kids and then spending more time outdoors and at the time we didn't even live here in Colorado. 05:05.440 --> 05:12.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when our kids were little we were in the city in Kansas City and we started finding every pocket of nature that we could find. 05:13.043 --> 05:16.505 [SPEAKER_01]: And as we did this I saw just how much goodness. 05:16.885 --> 05:22.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, truly, when you step outside, you see everything good and noble and true, like we read about in Philippians 4-8. 05:23.508 --> 05:33.553 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I started to think, you know, if I understood more of these materials, then I could use them to teach my own kids, to understand our creator better. 05:33.573 --> 05:35.615 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was really the impetus. 05:35.635 --> 05:37.896 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the beginning of diving into this. 05:38.036 --> 05:42.138 [SPEAKER_01]: And so my books were kind of born out of that, really just starting to, 05:42.518 --> 05:45.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Like at first it felt a little clunky like I don't really know how to do this. 05:45.639 --> 05:53.923 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know much about nature, but as I started looking closer and learning more, these connections started happening and that's where the books and the podcast really came from. 05:54.963 --> 06:03.667 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I've had a handful of episodes exploring the significance of getting our kids in nature, some practical tangible ways to do that. 06:03.767 --> 06:09.209 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to take a few different paths here today to make this a little bit different from some of those

other conversations. 06:09.669 --> 06:11.430 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that a lot of 06:12.473 --> 06:19.876 [SPEAKER_00]: don't think that going out into nature can out compete the stimulation that a child finds and their devices. 06:20.076 --> 06:22.276 [SPEAKER_00]: So what encouragement do you have there? 06:22.436 --> 06:27.098 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess why do you have that perspective in that frame of mind? 06:28.230 --> 06:55.308 [SPEAKER_01]: definitely like we are facing this whole new dynamic as parents navigating this tech world and technology and media is really designed to make our kids want more like really to never be satisfied to never be content and that's the opposite of what we want for our kids and there's so much good about technology like we're using it right now right and I use it in my work regularly but when we think about nature it does the opposite it brings us to a place of contentment 06:55.968 --> 07:02.193 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I mentioned a minute ago, it helps us to think upon everything that is good and true and beautiful and excellent. 07:02.814 --> 07:09.340 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's doing really the opposite of when we were scrolling on our phones or even when our kids are playing a video game, you want more and more. 07:10.268 --> 07:17.229 [SPEAKER_01]: instead nature brings us into this place of contentment and of peace and the closer we look, the more order and purpose we see. 07:17.730 --> 07:26.111 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I believe it speaks to a very deep part of our spirit of our person because truly we're connecting with our creator in it, like we're connecting with the everlasting God. 07:26.671 --> 07:32.532 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I believe in a way it truly satisfies those deeper desires of our 07:37.363 --> 07:38.184 [SPEAKER_00]: know, absolutely. 07:38.684 --> 07:49.331 [SPEAKER_00]: So because we can see our creator in nature, again, I feel like after church is oftentimes when we go out and take a long family hike just because it's kind of like this continuation of the spiritual practice that we're in. 07:49.791 --> 07:59.418 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm wondering how noticing the practice of noticing can act as a spiritual or a scientific discipline for not just us, but for our kids as well. 08:01.208 --> 08:13.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, think about, okay, so science really came from natural history and natural historians, natural theologians and these were people that were looking at the natural world and asking, what is this? 08:14.479 --> 08:18.963 [SPEAKER_01]: Like science goes the next step and asks, why does it do this or why does it do it this way? 08:19.463 --> 08:23.687 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was born from this question that is so simple, what is this? 08:24.187 --> 08:39.416 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the act of noticing, and if you're familiar with like Charlotte Mason, the late educator, and she talked about teaching a child to truly see things in nature, to see and state them as they are without omission or exaggeration. 08:40.036 --> 08:47.780 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when we take our kids outside and we are learning the different bird species in our yard, like there's a really easy, fun, free app, 08:51.142 --> 08:54.545 [SPEAKER_01]: even by just hitting record and what birds are singing in your yard. 08:55.205 --> 08:59.128 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you're learning to look at the differences, like let's take sparrows. 08:59.489 --> 09:07.094 [SPEAKER_01]: Sparrows are actually a really hard group of birds to learn to identify because they all look very similar or most of them look very similar. 09:07.675 --> 09:09.156 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you can start with easier ones. 09:09.176 --> 09:11.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Like let's learn the American Robin and the Blue J. 09:12.198 --> 09:19.821 [SPEAKER_01]: depending on where you live the cardinal, but to take it a step further and learn the slight differences in sphero species. 09:19.981 --> 09:30.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Well then, you're practicing this art of, let's notice those fine details and think about like, if you're at an art museum, and you walk right past this gorgeous piece of art. 09:31.085 --> 09:33.566 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, Landsat, and you're like, oh, that's pretty, and you keep going. 09:33.626 --> 09:35.686 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to know anything about that piece of art. 09:36.366 --> 09:37.767 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to appreciate it. 09:37.787 --> 09:41.907 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not going to know about the artist, and the same is true in nature. 09:42.348 --> 09:44.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if we just walk right past something like, oh, that's nice. 09:44.748 --> 09:45.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Or like, oh, gross. 09:45.708 --> 09:47.049 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm going this way. 09:47.909 --> 09:49.729 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we need to practice truly stopping. 09:49.749 --> 09:53.190 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we would at an art museum, and the longer we stare at that piece of art. 09:53.890 --> 10:08.056 [SPEAKER_01]: The longer we watch that little beetle in the garden, the longer we study the petals and the colors on this flower, the more we're going to perceive of the order and the beauty and the purpose and just the like marveling at what God has made. 10:08.196 --> 10:16.140 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think so much of it really depends on let's go back to those days of natural history and simply asking, what is this thing and why is it so special? 10:17.705 --> 10:18.225 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 10:18.946 --> 10:32.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Kids are surrounded by things that are designed to specifically grab their attention, which I always encourage listeners like fine toys that aren't just for one piece of your child's attention, like I find something that they can use their imagination and creativity a little bit more. 10:33.272 --> 10:41.216 [SPEAKER_00]: But nature doesn't demand that attention in the same way, and I'm curious to know, maybe if you don't have the science behind what's

happening in a child's brain, 10:41.757 --> 10:48.339 [SPEAKER_00]: But just specific examples of what have happened with your children when they slow down enough to discover what's interesting on their own. 10:49.941 --> 10:57.643 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one that I think about right away, it actually ended up becoming a chapter in made to Marvel on crayfish, or you might call them crawdads wherever you live. 10:58.283 --> 11:04.884 [SPEAKER_01]: And so one day I was inside working and my kids, they come running in and they go, mom, come see this, come see this. 11:05.104 --> 11:12.226 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when our kids say that, like mom, come see this dad, come see this, that's an invitation into their world. 11:12.927 --> 11:21.559 [SPEAKER_01]: And so as often as I can, I want to stop and go see what they are marveling at, or to have them describe it to me, and then I can go and see it. 11:22.140 --> 11:28.990 [SPEAKER_01]: But in this case, I went out, I followed them, and we have a little canal, little ditch full of water behind our house, and there's a bridge going over it. 11:29.450 --> 11:46.847 [SPEAKER_01]: So they take me out to this bridge over the water and they have pulled out a crayfish and I was like oh cool crayfish like we see crayfish quite often they're like no look at this and they flip it over and there's it's belly it's abdomen is just full of these beautiful black orbs they look like shiny black pearls. 11:47.548 --> 11:49.769 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my goodness, they're eggs. 11:50.310 --> 11:51.930 [SPEAKER_01]: And sure enough, we researched it a bit. 11:52.171 --> 11:57.573 [SPEAKER_01]: And what the mama, crayfish does is she has these swimmerettes on the bottom of her abdomen. 11:58.014 --> 12:03.217 [SPEAKER_01]: And she basically glues her eggs to her abdomen and they'll stay there until they hatch. 12:03.237 --> 12:05.118 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's this beautiful, beautiful thing. 12:05.138 --> 12:05.258 [SPEAKER_01]: But 12:05.898 --> 12:14.807 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they would only see that if they slow down and stop, like one of my favorite verses out of Job is stop and consider the wondrous works of God. 12:14.907 --> 12:17.430 [SPEAKER_01]: And that word wondrous in the Hebrew is Pala. 12:18.150 --> 12:25.618 [SPEAKER_01]: And it means, it means, of course, wondrous and marvelous, but it can also mean an act of God, a miracle. 12:25.918 --> 12:30.201 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that's what we see when we slow down and teach our kids to slow down in nature. 12:30.662 --> 12:42.391 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so fun because more recently we were camping and fishing with friends from our church and we're fishing one day and one of the dads he cast his line and pulls out this huge crayfish. 12:43.212 --> 12:44.553 [SPEAKER_01]: And he brings it up on the pier. 12:45.453 --> 13:09.273 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking, okay, I wonder, I wonder if she has eggs and sure enough I flip her over and there's all these eggs on her abdomen and because of my kids experience because they had called me out that day We were able to show the other kids like look, this is a mama and she's got babies that are going to hatch But these experiences they only happen when we're willing to stop slow down and consider Mmm, I'm gonna so good. 13:09.313 --> 13:13.637 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna have to pay attention to that now, too and weren't natured or because kids are always grabbing crayfish 13:14.572 --> 13:30.160 [SPEAKER_00]: So in noticing crayfish, those are typically most kids will go grab a crayfish, but there are other creatures that are not so pleasant who talk about the critters that we tend to dismiss or even dislike something like vultures, scunks, or wasp. 13:30.321 --> 13:42.227 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm wondering what can teaching our children to look more closely at something like that that they initially find unpleasant, teach them not just about nature and science, but life lessons as well. 13:43.648 --> 13:46.110 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so skunks, skunks are fascinating. 13:46.130 --> 13:48.593 [SPEAKER_01]: We're about to release the episode on them on our podcast. 13:49.153 --> 13:57.981 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so funny because I done all this research on skunks for the chapter in me tomorrow and the podcast and then two nights ago my dog was sprayed by skunk for the first time. 13:58.542 --> 14:04.247 [SPEAKER_01]: And so now we're dealing with like, oh my goodness, we did these skunk the dog, all the things and of course you're immediately like, oh, 14:04.447 --> 14:05.348 [SPEAKER_01]: don't like scunks. 14:05.508 --> 14:08.709 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's normally our reaction to these types of creatures. 14:08.729 --> 14:15.252 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but because I looked so closely at the signs of them, I was like, okay, I know like, no, I do not like that it's sprayed my dog. 14:15.913 --> 14:18.914 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's really cool to know how that whole system works. 14:19.254 --> 14:21.075 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really cool to know how they make. 14:21.095 --> 14:22.476 [SPEAKER_01]: They have these little glands that 14:22.916 --> 14:25.479 [SPEAKER_01]: create and store the scent which has sulfur in it. 14:25.719 --> 14:28.122 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it smells because it has sulfur in it. 14:28.242 --> 14:29.223 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's this oil. 14:29.343 --> 14:34.468 [SPEAKER_01]: And once they spray it, it takes them around 10 to 14 days to be able to replenish that scent land. 14:34.568 --> 14:37.792 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I know this gun actually can't spray my dog again for about two weeks. 14:38.032 --> 14:38.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 14:38.252 --> 14:44.819 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to understand the science, but to go further, and now I understand that scunks are incredibly important. 14:45.239 --> 14:46.781 [SPEAKER_01]: pest control in nature. 14:47.021 --> 14:52.406 [SPEAKER_01]: They eat a ton of insects that would devour crops and small rodents and mice.

14:52.746 --> 14:56.129 [SPEAKER_01]: They're actually one of the most beneficial mammals for pest control. 14:56.349 --> 15:00.994 [SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of farmers actually want them around their land because they help protect their crops. 15:01.594 --> 15:05.458 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's creatures like that that we can see there's goodness here. 15:05.778 --> 15:07.920 [SPEAKER_01]: There's purpose here on the podcast. 15:07.940 --> 15:08.901 [SPEAKER_01]: We have an episode called. 15:09.041 --> 15:19.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Why did God make mosquitoes because like as their biting you throughout the summer you think it all I hate mosquitoes most of our kids hate mosquitoes that can ruin a fun summer evening 15:20.352 --> 15:30.939 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you look at them and you realize only the female mosquitoes bite for blood and only when they are growing eggs because they need that extra protein. 15:31.819 --> 15:38.023 [SPEAKER_01]: All other mosquitoes of the males and the females not currently growing eggs, they get everything they need from flower nectar. 15:38.744 --> 15:39.864 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what they were designed to do. 15:39.884 --> 15:41.906 [SPEAKER_01]: They were designed to be pollinators. 15:42.766 --> 15:45.468 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's only the females that now bite to get the protein. 15:45.988 --> 15:51.111 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, we need to look closer at those animals, or in the book, I have a chapter on Vultures. 15:51.591 --> 15:56.174 [SPEAKER_01]: And we look at how the stomach acid inside a vulture is stronger than battery acid. 15:56.834 --> 15:58.996 [SPEAKER_01]: And some Vultures even eat bones. 15:59.456 --> 16:00.977 [SPEAKER_01]: And they do this as they do this. 16:00.997 --> 16:04.299 [SPEAKER_01]: They're cleaning up the carrying or the dead animals from say roadkill. 16:04.979 --> 16:08.743 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they are getting rid of all these these really dead carcasses. 16:08.803 --> 16:14.569 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to think about, but these dead animals like they are the cleanup crew, which of course protects us and other animals from diseases. 16:14.869 --> 16:21.296 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to look closer at these creatures that have not so lovely reputations and ask the question like, okay, but what good is here? 16:21.336 --> 16:22.257 [SPEAKER_01]: What purpose is here? 16:22.457 --> 16:23.198 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll find it. 16:23.863 --> 16:24.583 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so good. 16:24.703 --> 16:26.464 [SPEAKER_00]: And the mosquito thing is curious. 16:26.624 --> 16:30.625 [SPEAKER_00]: My daughter had asked me this summer because we had them horrible here in Columbus. 16:30.665 --> 16:33.345 [SPEAKER_00]: There was so much range, really it rained for two weeks straight. 16:33.365 --> 16:34.906 [SPEAKER_00]: There was flooding all around this city. 16:35.446 --> 16:37.066 [SPEAKER_00]: And the mosquitoes were abundant. 16:37.106 --> 16:39.547 [SPEAKER_00]: My son, all of us were getting annihilated by them. 16:39.967 --> 16:42.548 [SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, if you could, would you get rid of them? 16:42.568 --> 16:43.288 [SPEAKER_00]: And... 16:44.348 --> 16:44.989 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought about it. 16:45.029 --> 16:49.392 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't, I didn't research it as you did, which again, maybe I should have. 16:49.993 --> 16:54.256 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was like, no, there has to, they have to serve a purpose in the greater ecosystem. 16:54.356 --> 16:56.598 [SPEAKER_00]: If they're here, there must be a reason for it. 16:56.978 --> 16:58.139 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm okay with that. 16:58.179 --> 16:59.140 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want them in my house. 16:59.160 --> 17:01.942 [SPEAKER_00]: But when I go out into their world, I'm okay with them. 17:02.022 --> 17:05.004 [SPEAKER_00]: I just need to take some precautions for myself before I do so. 17:05.385 --> 17:09.628 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do think it's cool how everything just co-exist and works together. 17:10.333 --> 17:11.294 [SPEAKER_00]: in harmony. 17:11.494 --> 17:19.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if you believe that a creator placed them there, yeah, there are some things that are not so pleasant, maybe about their bites, but that's really fascinating. 17:20.564 --> 17:24.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, there's definitely purpose even for a mosquito and a skunk in a culture. 17:24.709 --> 17:26.050 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, absolutely. 17:26.391 --> 17:29.674 [SPEAKER_00]: My dog, by the way, got sprayed by a skunk, he got out two years ago. 17:29.714 --> 17:30.655 [SPEAKER_00]: Was this two years ago? 17:31.702 --> 17:33.544 [SPEAKER_00]: And it smells like motor oil. 17:33.684 --> 17:36.206 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that happens to you, but it smells like motor oil. 17:36.486 --> 17:36.887 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 17:37.367 --> 17:43.612 [SPEAKER_00]: And now whenever he gets wet, he still does even years later, smells like water actually activates the molecule. 17:43.793 --> 17:47.115 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the last thing you want to do is get your dog wet if there's spray dust gone. 17:47.296 --> 17:51.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Tomato juice also emits like that just makes them smell like tomato and rotten eggs. 17:51.539 --> 18:08.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a mix of, and I only know this because we do a curriculum with our podcast and our biologist who writes the science portion, she included this recipe for when your dog gets sprayed so I was like, oh my goodness, I'm the first person like we haven't even released this yet and I'm using, but it's peroxide baking soda and dish soap. 18:08.862 --> 18:10.243 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's so crazy though. 18:10.263 --> 18:11.504 [SPEAKER_01]: Two years later, he's still smells. 18:11.624 --> 18:16.968 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, if he's outside in the rain, I mean, he's also a great Pyrenees, so he has quite a bit of hair. 18:17.949 --> 18:20.371 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not the best one to get scummed for sure. 18:20.711

--> 18:22.812 [SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, it stays in there. 18:27.856 --> 18:29.718 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I want to talk about now. 18:30.847 --> 18:42.100 [SPEAKER_00]: that a sense of wonder and curiosity, you spoke to it a little bit, but I think that it's very counter-cultural to go outside and sit with our kids and watch that beetle, like you said, and to notice where it's going, what it's doing. 18:42.561 --> 18:49.009 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm curious to know what you've learned even with your own kids about the relationship between slowing down and our sense of wonder. 18:50.909 --> 18:52.030 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they go hand in hand. 18:52.110 --> 18:52.750 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're right. 18:52.770 --> 18:58.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it is counter cultural, although there is this big movement back to board nature study, which is really beautiful to see. 18:58.614 --> 19:01.677 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's so much talk about wonder these days. 19:02.437 --> 19:06.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we ask, okay, how can I nurture my kids' wonder? 19:06.580 --> 19:07.541 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want them to lose it. 19:07.601 --> 19:09.443 [SPEAKER_01]: How do I reignite wonder in myself? 19:09.503 --> 19:13.487 [SPEAKER_01]: What does wonder have to do with faith or what we believe about the world or a creator? 19:13.547 --> 19:17.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Like all these questions about wonder, and yet what is wonder? 19:17.871 --> 19:19.873 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's a question that we should be starting with. 19:19.933 --> 19:26.760 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mentioned that verse, with the words that Hebrew word, Pala, which means an act of God, a miracle. 19:26.920 --> 19:28.702 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I believe that wonder, 19:29.863 --> 19:32.546 [SPEAKER_01]: is a feeling, yes, but it's more so. 19:32.646 --> 19:35.769 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a response, like how we respond to things. 19:36.329 --> 19:49.922 [SPEAKER_01]: And in my children's book, where Wonder Leeds, it actually starts with this question, and it's a scene of the star of the story willow this young girl on a journey to becoming a young naturalist, and she's with her cousin Casper, and they're in the redwood forest in California. 19:50.442 --> 19:52.745 [SPEAKER_01]: So they're surrounded by these massive trees. 19:52.765 --> 19:52.925 [SPEAKER_01]: And 19:53.345 --> 19:58.227 [SPEAKER_01]: And they start talking about wonder and Casper asks Willow he goes, well, what is wonder? 19:58.987 --> 20:03.950 [SPEAKER_01]: And Willow responds and she goes, well, you know how you're so excited to grow up and get bigger. 20:03.970 --> 20:08.511 [SPEAKER_01]: And Casper's like, yeah, I can't wait till I could drive a car and go get ice cream whenever I want. 20:08.531 --> 20:09.752 [SPEAKER_01]: Like all these kid dots, right? 20:09.772 --> 20:11.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're so excited to grow up and get bigger. 20:11.693 --> 20:16.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And Willow says, well, wonder makes you feel small. 20:17.115

--> 20:17.775 [SPEAKER_01]: and Casper. 20:17.835 --> 20:20.336 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, why would I ever want to feel small? 20:20.376 --> 20:21.496 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I want to grow up. 20:22.376 --> 20:29.398 [SPEAKER_01]: And Willa goes, well, it makes you feel small in a really good way because it shows you how big God is and yet he cares about us. 20:30.038 --> 20:32.139 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think wonder is a response. 20:32.299 --> 20:37.860 [SPEAKER_01]: How we respond to those experiences when we just encounter something bigger than ourselves. 20:37.900 --> 20:40.400 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have felt it here in the Rocky Mountain. 20:40.420 --> 20:43.721 [SPEAKER_01]: So when I'm surrounded by mountain summits or you think about like at the ocean, 20:47.402 --> 20:58.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Our children, like their curiosity, they're drawn to that little ant on the sidewalk, carrying a pebble or a piece of food that is, you know, like 50 times heavier than the ant. 20:58.875 --> 21:03.460 [SPEAKER_01]: They are marvellene at these common creatures like my eight-year-old daughter. 21:03.900 --> 21:09.344 [SPEAKER_01]: This summer she collected this terrarium of baby toads like they were out of the water. 21:09.384 --> 21:11.426 [SPEAKER_01]: They were no longer tadpoles, but they're these little toads. 21:11.906 --> 21:13.528 [SPEAKER_01]: She watched them for days. 21:13.968 --> 21:15.709 [SPEAKER_01]: She would just sit out there staring at them. 21:15.850 --> 21:16.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Watch it. 21:16.230 --> 21:17.151 [SPEAKER_01]: That's wonder. 21:17.471 --> 21:21.274 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that causes them like our response is to stop. 21:21.614 --> 21:30.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is countercultural because in a world is telling our kids like go fast, keep going, check it off the list or they see that the way that we're living. 21:31.239 --> 21:36.461 [SPEAKER_01]: One der shows them the opposite and it calls us to stop and to pay attention. 21:38.102 --> 21:47.367 [SPEAKER_00]: As a naturalist and someone who has been going out and noticing for maybe a little bit longer than a lot of us, do you still find yourself 21:48.727 --> 21:51.529 [SPEAKER_00]: caught off guard by the wonder that you're personally experiencing. 21:52.930 --> 21:53.250 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 21:53.951 --> 22:03.818 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, really do not always, and that makes me sad that not always sometimes if I'm like in work mode, I really can let a moment of wonder pass by. 22:04.298 --> 22:06.140 [SPEAKER_01]: And that makes me sad, like I don't want that for myself. 22:07.755 --> 22:37.322 [SPEAKER_01]: But what I delight in is that I really do still get caught up in those moments of wonder and mainly it happens like we put out a new podcast episode every week on the out and it's diving deep into a creature or a plant and so every week I'm research and I'm usually working on five episodes at once so I'm researching all these different topics and like we

just did one on toad stool mushrooms and are they poisonous you know those like red cap mushrooms with all the white spots on them and then so I was like deep diving inside research and then we go hiking. 22:38.243 --> 22:55.604 [SPEAKER_01]: after a rain and we see these mushrooms everywhere and I was just an awe because I just studied these things and I think that's an important part like our kids are learning all about nature whether it's in school or they seek it out on their own, they're reading these books or watching these documentaries they're listening to podcasts. 22:56.925 --> 23:02.447 [SPEAKER_01]: But then to be able to go out and see that thing and understand it just a little bit more. 23:02.927 --> 23:07.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what gets me is being able to understand it at a little bit of a deeper level. 23:08.809 --> 23:09.949 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's so good. 23:09.969 --> 23:11.290 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would feel like 23:12.498 --> 23:13.639 [SPEAKER_00]: I still noticed the deer. 23:13.779 --> 23:20.807 [SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to think even though I see deer in my yard all the time, I still just am struck by them every time because I just think it's so cool. 23:21.147 --> 23:21.568 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 23:21.648 --> 23:23.710 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I love to see them there. 23:23.810 --> 23:30.077 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that we moved a little bit out of Columbus, so we're in a little bit more of a rural area now where they are abundant. 23:30.757 --> 23:35.042 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, I was talking to Ian Bogos about the small stuff and we were talking about how 23:35.546 --> 23:48.292 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of full circle for adults, like you notice and have all this curiosity and wonder when you're a child, but then once you decide to opt back into it as an adult, you're not just seeing it through their eyes, but you're just noticing things with the brain capacity that we have now. 23:48.732 --> 23:52.454 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like I'm more blown away than maybe I even was as a child at this point. 23:53.716 --> 23:54.377 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 23:54.557 --> 23:55.638 [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a good way of putting it. 23:55.658 --> 24:01.303 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never thought about that before and I love that like opting back into it That's such a good phrase like and that's exactly what happened in my life. 24:01.343 --> 24:05.026 [SPEAKER_01]: I've just never had that language to put to it Like that's you're so right. 24:05.126 --> 24:19.719 [SPEAKER_01]: I was amazed by nature as a kid But now is an adult understanding a deeper level and seeing these connections with faith lessons and life lessons And like oh my goodness, this is even better than I ever knew and I think that that's why there's that spiritual piece to it for 24:20.431 --> 24:28.635 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of us, even if someone's on a Christian, I think that it just is a spiritual experience when we got, again, opting into it, choosing

to see it being intentional about it. 24:29.215 --> 24:34.157 [SPEAKER_00]: When we do that, it just is my body spirit that is connected to something so much bigger than us. 24:35.318 --> 24:36.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so true. 24:36.318 --> 24:36.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 24:37.079 --> 24:45.002 [SPEAKER_00]: So some encouragement here for listeners as we wrap up, there are people that just say their kids don't love being outside. 24:45.102 --> 24:46.703 [SPEAKER_00]: They are more indoorsy. 24:47.180 --> 24:50.463 [SPEAKER_00]: and their kid would think is going outside as maybe even a punishment. 24:50.883 --> 24:53.865 [SPEAKER_00]: What encouragement do you have to them to get their kids outside? 24:53.905 --> 24:55.847 [SPEAKER_00]: And even just starting small. 24:57.568 --> 25:00.010 [SPEAKER_01]: I think starting small is such a key point to that. 25:00.530 --> 25:02.852 [SPEAKER_01]: And so finding one thing that interests your child. 25:02.892 --> 25:05.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I had a mom asked me earlier this year. 25:05.094 --> 25:07.296 [SPEAKER_01]: She said, my daughter's a teenager now. 25:07.336 --> 25:10.218 [SPEAKER_01]: She used to love nature, and now I just can't get her to go outside. 25:10.878 --> 25:12.399 [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt for this mom, for one, 25:13.420 --> 25:15.621 [SPEAKER_01]: And I could see myself in that teenage girl. 25:15.641 --> 25:16.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I was there, too. 25:16.881 --> 25:22.483 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I asked the mom, I said, is there anything in nature that interests her that she has questions about? 25:22.623 --> 25:24.304 [SPEAKER_01]: And the mom, she like, she stopped. 25:24.324 --> 25:25.144 [SPEAKER_01]: She physically stopped. 25:25.224 --> 25:28.145 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's thinking, she goes, she really likes trees. 25:28.985 --> 25:31.146 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, okay, I have some book recommendations for you. 25:31.186 --> 25:36.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Like these are some really good books that you can get her about trees and just get her learning about them. 25:36.308 --> 25:38.729 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's gonna inspire her to go outside. 25:38.789 --> 25:42.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it made tomorrow, the first thing I tell parents and families as a reading it is, 25:43.141 --> 25:49.486 [SPEAKER_01]: your responses book should be to set it down often because I want you to learn about something you're interested in and then go out and find it. 25:49.986 --> 25:54.129 [SPEAKER_01]: And so don't feel like you need to get your child interested in everything about nature. 25:54.149 --> 25:54.950 [SPEAKER_01]: That's overwhelming. 25:55.070 --> 26:01.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Find that one thing whether it be amphibians or reptiles or insects or birds and then go out and find that one thing. 26:01.937 --> 26:23.315 [SPEAKER_01]: And then another really good tip for getting kids to go back outside is to include friends and so instead of saying like hey we're going to go on a hike today and the

kids are like oh my goodness no instead what about hey we're going to meet our friends at the river we're going to go to the beach with our friends we're going to go to the park with our friends when you invite friends especially as the kids are getting older and they have like these core people these core friend group. 26:24.046 --> 26:26.327 [SPEAKER_01]: they're much more likely to get excited about it. 26:27.127 --> 26:27.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Such good points. 26:28.388 --> 26:31.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Erin, where can listeners find you if they want to connect with you? 26:31.690 --> 26:34.891 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you shout out your podcast, which I just subscribe to. 26:34.911 --> 26:38.793 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't out wait to start to listen, but where can listeners connect with you personally if they want to learn more? 26:40.003 --> 26:40.724 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much. 26:40.744 --> 26:43.608 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the podcast is Nat Theo short for Natural Theology. 26:44.269 --> 26:46.732 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is nature lessons rooted in the Bible. 26:46.892 --> 26:51.698 [SPEAKER_01]: And so every Tuesday, we release a episode that dives deep into a creature or a plant or earth science. 26:51.899 --> 26:53.641 [SPEAKER_01]: And then connects it all back to scripture. 26:53.681 --> 26:56.725 [SPEAKER_01]: So our kids are growing in faith and wonder at the same time. 26:57.406 --> 27:05.435 [SPEAKER_01]: And net the available to listen anywhere online, any podcast platform or right on our website, the naturaltheologyproject.com. 27:06.116 --> 27:15.788 [SPEAKER_01]: And then my new books as well, where Wonder leads is a children's chapter book, exploring faith and science, and that's available through new growth press, or anywhere you buy books or on our website. 27:16.408 --> 27:30.871 [SPEAKER_01]: and made tomorrow is also on my website or available through Reveille and that's 52 family devotions exploring the wild wonders of God's creation, looking at those common creatures and plants and digging deep into the science and then tying it all back to biblical truth. 27:31.511 --> 27:35.732 [SPEAKER_01]: And both these books also have really fun outdoor activities to get started. 27:35.752 --> 27:37.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Those small steps we talked about. 27:37.113 --> 27:39.153 [SPEAKER_01]: A little things we can do to reignite 27:39.593 --> 27:40.695 [SPEAKER_01]: the wonder in our kids. 27:41.016 --> 27:41.917 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely. 27:42.358 --> 27:44.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you gave us a resource already. 27:44.621 --> 27:53.454 [SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned the Merlin bird app, which I am a big user of that as well, but I always ask my guess two final questions here in the first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life. 27:53.494 --> 27:55.157 [SPEAKER_00]: So do you have another one you'd share with the audience? 27:56.727 --> 28:04.212 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me think on that because there are so many one that really have been loving this past year is the Sherwood audio app for kids. 28:05.252 --> 28:09.955 [SPEAKER_01]: And think about like, there's some apps that connect to your library and you can go audiobooks. 28:09.995 --> 28:18.339 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Sherwood is this robust catalog of over 5,000 audio books, ebooks, media for kids, but it's all really wholesome materials. 28:18.379 --> 28:22.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I know when I click play, I don't have to worry about what my kids are listening to. 28:22.582 --> 28:24.383 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all stuff that I trust and love myself. 28:24.883 --> 28:25.583 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, great. 28:25.744 --> 28:27.164 [SPEAKER_00]: I will have to look into that as well. 28:27.805 --> 28:31.046 [SPEAKER_00]: My final question for you is what is one thing you can't stop talking about? 28:31.066 --> 28:33.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my goodness, this changes all the time. 28:33.588 --> 28:34.428 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always creatures. 28:34.868 --> 28:36.429 [SPEAKER_01]: So and we've talked about a lot of those. 28:36.449 --> 28:39.691 [SPEAKER_01]: So I could talk about the roadrunner because I'm really obsessed with roadrunners right now. 28:39.711 --> 28:41.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's so obscure. 28:41.872 --> 28:43.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, it's because we just did it. 28:43.253 --> 28:46.714 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I researched the episode on them, but let's not do an animal. 28:46.734 --> 28:47.455 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do snow. 28:47.935 --> 29:03.498 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I've been researching for an episode on snow and you know, I think growing up we always think snow is frozen rain because it's a totally different process of course has to do with the water cycle, but snow happens when the water vapor, which is a gas goes up in the air. 29:04.299 --> 29:08.722 [SPEAKER_01]: And the water vapor connects to little dust particles or pollen or even ash. 29:08.882 --> 29:10.062 [SPEAKER_01]: And it turns straight to ice. 29:10.343 --> 29:11.463 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never liquid water. 29:11.543 --> 29:13.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Snow is never liquid water in less it melts. 29:14.105 --> 29:17.827 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always go straight from gas to solid crystal. 29:18.407 --> 29:24.331 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it starts building these really intricate crystal structures that are called fractals. 29:24.511 --> 29:31.295 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same shape at tiny, tiny minuscule and then to the larger, like a fractal is always the same shape from large to small. 29:31.975 --> 29:40.700 [SPEAKER_01]: But all of that to say, you think about a snowflake and yes, it's true that no two snowflakes have ever been found that have the exact same shapes, the same crystal structure. 29:41.281 --> 29:47.624 [SPEAKER_01]: But like what an intricate process to help our kids understand, like when we're out playing in this snow, when we're out sledding. 29:48.525 --> 29:54.108 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to talk about how detailed and how beautiful and yes, it's truly frozen crystals falling from the sky. 29:54.528 --> 29:56.209 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wow, that's so, so cool. 29:56.269 --> 30:00.611 [SPEAKER_00]: So wait, so we shouldn't drink the snow, like eat the snow, is that probably a bad idea? 30:00.631 --> 30:02.852 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's fine if it's clean. 30:03.072 --> 30:03.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 30:03.932 --> 30:04.352 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 30:04.372 --> 30:05.152 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 30:05.213 --> 30:08.954 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's little dust particles in it, but when are we not drinking little dust particles? 30:08.974 --> 30:09.334 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true. 30:09.554 --> 30:10.575 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so true. 30:10.755 --> 30:11.735 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much. 30:11.815 --> 30:13.056 [SPEAKER_00]: I've really enjoyed talking to you. 30:13.076 --> 30:14.917 [SPEAKER_00]: I've learned so much just in the center of view. 30:14.977 --> 30:19.358 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't wait to start following along with you and I highly recommend to listeners do so as well. 30:19.378 --> 30:20.139 [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for joining me. 30:21.019 --> 30:21.719 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much. 30:21.739 --> 30:22.860 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for your fun conversation. 30:24.079 --> 30:25.340 [SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of the episode? 30:25.520 --> 30:27.080 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation. 30:27.580 --> 30:45.748 [SPEAKER_00]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com, where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online. 30:46.408 --> 30:57.816 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode. 30:58.456 --> 31:07.642 [SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with us.