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00:01 - Speaker 1
Quiet on the set All together.
00:06 - Speaker 2
And action. Welcome to Media and Monuments presented by Women in Film and Video in Washington DC. Media and Monuments features conversations with industry professionals speaking on a range of topics of interest to screen-based media makers.
00:31 - Speaker 3
Hello everyone, Thank you for listening on this episode of Media and Monuments. I am your host, Tara Jabari, and today we are focusing on a new film coming out called Fitting In, starring Maddie Ziegler and Emily Hampshire. The story centers around 16-year-old Lindy, who is diagnosed with a rare reproductive condition known as MRKH syndrome. The diagnosis disrupts her understanding of womanhood and sexual identity and throws her relationships with her new boyfriend, her friends and her mother into disarray. The film is semi-autobiographical for its writer and director, Molly McGlynn, who is my guest. So welcome, Molly. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, Tara. So first, could you kind of explain to the listeners your unique story and what caused this story to come about as a film?
01:27 - Speaker 1
um, yeah, I had this story, at least a germ of it, sort of in my gut for a long time. But I, you know, I made another feature first called mary Round, and I knew I needed to get my sea legs under me in making a feature and just become more confident in my skill set and abilities as a writer and director before I could tackle fitting in, because it is so personal that I knew I only had one shot to tell this story. So you know, it's funny, I don't think I was really ready for it per se, but the universe had offered me some opportunities that started the ball rolling, in particular after Mary Goes Round had premiered at the Toronto Film Festival and came out. I had submitted to a screenwriting lab in Greece called Oxbelly and they asked if I had a second feature script, and I don't think I did. You know I maybe had had some pages or whatnot of fitting in which was called Bloody Hell originally, and I said I can get you something in a month. So I wrote a very, very fast first draft which, to my surprise, was accepted, and went on this amazing trip to Greece where I had Paul Thomas Anderson and Nick Kroll as my mentors on the script and just really exposed me to some of the best filmmakers in the world.
03:10
Athena Sangari, who's an incredible indie Greek filmmaker, was, I think, running the program at that point and I know she was really a fan of the project, specifically what it had to say about women's body bodies and autonomy and the patriarchy and the medical system and all of that. So I showed up in Greece and then when I got there I was very overwhelmed with the prospect of them talking about my story and pitching it. And you know, I had a moment where I was googling flights back to Toronto where I was living at the time, because I just I did not feel ready. And Athena pulled me aside and said look, you're here because I believe in you and the script and it's scary and it's always going to be scary, but you have to start now. So she really sort of kept my butt in the seat, kind of against my will, but looking back, I'm so grateful that she was able to um, really stop me in my tracks, letting the fear take over, because I think without that I don't know where this script would be.
04:17
So, um, once I did that lab, I, you know, worked on new drafts of it and, um, it was connected to a producer in Canada and we financed it through Telefilm Canada, who had also financed my first feature, and then the screen lit in 20, end of 2021. And then we shot it the summer of 2022. So it happened relatively quickly of 2022. So it happened relatively quickly and, again, like making a film is only capturing where you are as a person and an artist at one moment in time and you know, now it's out and I'm really proud of it. It's been very difficult, as indie films always are, but I truly put everything I have into this film and I think that when people see that, see it, they can feel that.
05:10 - Speaker 3
I heard you first on a different podcast, chelsea Devantez's Glamorous Trash, formerly known as Celebrity Memoir Book Club podcast, and it was a specific episode. You've been on it a couple of times, but there was a specific episode. You've been on it a couple of times, but there was a specific episode where you guys went over the film barbie that came out in the summer of 2023 and you opened up about your unique condition, if you will, um, and and that your film that was coming out and and you mentioned it in the episode that it was called Bloody Hell was coming out to talk about this that actually one in 5,000 births people are born with this, so could you explain that?
05:54
Because that's actually quite a lot.
05:56 - Speaker 1
I feel like, yeah, I've actually read one in 4,500 births and you know, when you think about globally and how medical systems operate differently, it could be quite globally underreported as well. So the chances are that it's more common than that are very possible. But MRKH syndrome, for those of you who don't know, is a reproductive condition that affects the female reproductive system. So it's generally discovered in puberty, when you'd expect to get your period and everything else has developed and then this one thing is missing. So around 16, went to the gynecologist and was put through a variety of tests and there was a lot of confusion and experiences that were pretty traumatic for me. But ultimately the diagnosis means that I was born without a uterus, cervix and a shortened vaginal canal. So in order to have penetrative sex, I had to use not, I had to. I was told I had to use dilators to sort of what I thought fix or correct myself, which is a totally fine and great treatment option.
07:10
However, the context in which it's put upon a young patient can be very troubling, in the sense that you get a pretty earth shattering
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diagnosis that's hard to wrap your head around in terms of its complexity and you know it's like oh, do you want to use these dilators? Do you want to get surgery without really maybe understanding the emotional or psychological headspace of a teenager? So I think, from what I've heard, there has been a lot more development in the medical system and how doctors look at patients with MRKH. However, I've been really I've been surprised, but I've been shocked to hear from so many other teenagers that felt their experience was almost identical and I was diagnosed in the early 2000s. So that is concerning to me because you know it took a lot of my life to really understand bodily autonomy and also you know how it applies to medical spaces. We have had this conversation about what that looks like in bedrooms or sexual relationships, but it does apply to.
08:33 - Speaker 3
What was the Greek program that you went to? Is it still going on?
08:38 - Speaker 1
It's called Oxbelly it is. I believe they used to be Sundance Mediterranean Lab, but then it was sort of rebranded into.
08:47 - Speaker 3
Oxbelly backing actually putting money into something so specific of a condition, a reproductive condition and it sounds more female reproductive condition at that. Yeah.
09:06 - Speaker 1
And I will just say as a side note, some people who have MRKH do identify as intersex, others don't. You know, when you think about intersex definitions, essentially from my understanding it's any sort of non-normative reproductive systems or parts. It's not necessarily chromosomal, it can be physical. So there's a lot of ways of looking at MRKH and different people feel different things. I so so funnily, I don't really know how I feel about labels around it Like I have been told I'm not intersex. I've been told that I am, and I just kind of laugh because people just project themselves onto other people and I'm just. I'm just this person. But back to your question about support.
10:01
Given the subject matter, I was very, very grateful and lucky to have the Canadian Telefilm program and system behind me.
10:10
I think Canada takes risk with what in who they support for the most part. I mean it could be a lot of work done, but I had a lot of support, um, from them and from amazing female producers. However, I will say, um, you know, when you look at the distribution and marketing ends, that's sort of where you see how people maybe aren't yet ready to tackle all of this, like it even comes down to editing the trailer, like the canadian version is allowed to show vaginal dilators. Um, the american, uh, and yeah the motion picture ratings, you cannot show them and I was really surprised because they are medical props essentially that are being sexualized by the viewer is very much not, even though the condition does intersect with the patient's sexual life. So I am happy that this film was programmed at festivals and, you know, had the limited theatrical release in North America. But I still think there's some nerves about even just saying the word vagina, like yeah, it's just pretty wild.
11:40 - Speaker 3
We've had a few guests on Media and Monuments that talk about inclusion and equity in front of the screen, behind the screen. Well, I had heard the episode that you were a guest on and then when I saw the trailer of the film and I was excited and so I'm happy I got you on because I was like this is a unique thing, because this is something internal of a condition that if you had something else, like you can tell by somebody's color of their skin, or if they had a seemingly a handicap that you can visualize or something like that. But this is internal and also it doesn't show up. Not show up that they can't diagnose it until a person hits a certain age and things. And I was like, yes, so this is still talking about a very small group of individuals, but it's also never talked about and it's a very intimate subject.
12:42
But it's also very important and I was impressed that you got it made and to have so much backing up and notable people for me, like in front of the screen, that are on it, for me, like in front of the screen, that are on it were you nervous about any pushback, were you like, as you were approaching people to get on it, or as you were approaching for the marketing team, and you're like, okay, I'm ready for this to just be on video cassette because no one's going to let us go yeah.
13:13 - Speaker 1
Right, yeah it, it was a lot. I'm really lucky with the team of people behind me understanding how personal it was too. I was nervous with some interviews of how maybe I'd be asked about it, but for the most part people have been really respectful. It's also something so deeply personal and quote unquote taboo that is now public about me and I, you know, have a professional identity. I direct television. I have this whole career that now it's like, okay, this is the first thing that pops up now, but at the same time I hope that de-stigmatizes, itizes it like okay, this is a fact about me, but it doesn't necessarily define me.
14:03
Um, you know, I for the most part people have responded to the film really well and the critical response has been amazing. We're certified fresh on rotten tomatoes and it's. It's really like the odd person who doesn't get it, but that's okay, because perhaps this isn't the film for them. But some of the most touching responses have been from people who saw it because their wife or girlfriend or partner brought them to it and they had no idea what they were getting into and then shared with me the impact it had on them, which really touched me Because, even though the film is about a very specific circumstance of the body. I think anyone who has a body, no matter what your gender is, has wondered at some point is it normal? Does it look like this person? What are the limitations of my body? Being frustrated with its limitations, and I think the vulnerability and sort
of humiliation of having one is a universal experience.
15:14 - Speaker 3
It's sort of like the locker room kind of thing.
15:21 - Speaker 1
Right Right, experience. It's sort of like the locker room kind of thing, right right. So yeah, even like I'm I'm engaged to someone who used to be a professional athlete and like just talking about what men's sport locker rooms are like and it's so interesting and like it's this alpha male uh space, but there's all this body stuff that comes up as well, which I find fascinating um, I also had noticed that it used to be called bloody hell and now it's called fitting in.
15:53 - Speaker 3
And then if you look at the posters, those fitting in um, what is it Is is bloody hell is bloody hell. So was that? One of the issues was like bloody hell was having the word hell in there, but you wanted it in there, like I was curious on how did that happen.
16:10 - Speaker 1
It wasn't, um the hell, it was more that the title may be too confused with the horror genre and I've called it my emotional horror story. But our lives are run, I said ruined. Freudian slept by algorithms and you know if and when it's online algorithms putting it in places that wouldn't necessarily get to the people who we want to see it. So changing it to fitting in was a move to make it just seen by more people and and when people see the film and understand it a little more, they'll understand that fitting in is a bit of a double entendre as well, because it has to do with the dilators and making the vagina and all of that. So it is still a little bit cheeky and also, of course, references coming in mage.
17:08 - Speaker 3
In the episode that I had heard you discuss this film in the first place which I actually will link into the show notes you guys were talking about the Barbie movie and you were talking about your hopes and thoughts about what the Barbie film was as an entry point for people to see, like give more women more opportunities to make films because they will make a return on investment, kind of thing. What is your hope for, now that you've been able to make a film about a reproductive condition and about women, about a female thing or an intersex thing, or something so unique an intersex thing or something so unique Do you have any hopes of being able to make these?
18:00 - Speaker 1
stories or opening the doors for other people. I really hope so and I've always been very adamant that I'm aware of my privilege in the world. I was diagnosed as like a middle-class white girl in New Jersey. Um, I had access to a doctor. I, you know, for the most part had a supporting family, though there was obviously a disconnect. Um, I think this is a very different story. Um, if she was a woman of color, I think that story needs to be told because of the inherent trauma that women of color feel in medical spaces and, specifically, reproductive health. I'm not that person to tell that story and I really hope that we see other perspectives beyond
me.
18:54
A Canadian white lady, um, and similar with barbie, like incredible, uh, the fact that gerwig made a hit that successful commercially.
19:08
And last week I was reading some, you know, study on women in the industry and it's it's really depressing and it's not changing that much maybe, but if it is, it's going very slowly.
19:21
Um, I get nervous sometimes where, when it's like, oh, we had Barbie, and it's like as if that sort of absolves the industry of financing, yeah, any other person who's who's not a white man, um, so I'm very concerned with um equity across the space, in my, in our industry, in terms of who is telling stories and, specifically, the money behind it.
19:50
Because, you know, okay, people might give someone a little bit of money to make a first feature who's not a white man, but what about, um, people who who want to do their version of barbie or a sci-fi or something with a higher budget and, further to that, um, are we fostering their career long term? Are we patting ourselves on the back because, oh, this person is not white or they're not straight, or they're not a man? You know, and I think there are people who are deeply and genuinely invested in improving this, but the system is a beast. It's going to take a really long time. I try to support other filmmakers as much as I can and you know, when the movie came out, I was asking people to go see it in the theater. Yes, to support me and the people who put their heart into this film, but also to tell distributors that people want to see this kind of film so that maybe the next person with their own story can be heard.
20:57 - Speaker 3
Yeah, and one of my favorite things about doing media and monuments podcast is that I do get to travel a lot and when I do, I try and speak with other filmmakers from other countries. So I spoke with a South African writer and actress and she was talking about how important it was to sorry she would be speaking in Xhosa and then she would say like, oh, I'm Black and we were white and all this stuff. And I said, oh, for American audiences, we kind of don't. Can you explain why you're saying it in such abruptness to us? Because there's a cultural difference. And she had actually lived in the States for a while and she's like oh, yes, I remember this. Yes, in South Africa it's totally common for us to say you're brown or I'm black and all that stuff, and so it was very important to have this language.
21:57
Or I spoke to a German filmmaker and she was a female filmmaker and just to hear different, all of these different perspectives and seeing also there's other sides, because we always just see probably the bigger paid kind of movies from other countries and that's not necessarily representing the whole community. Same with us, like that's not Barbie. Yes, it had a lot of stuff going on, a lot of representation, but not all of it. And that was just. You know, they only get it to one part of the planet other than Barbie land, which was what was it like? Some part of Los Angeles, in one of the most populated country, countries and one of the biggest countries in the world. So I was like, ok, so it's not really. Yeah, countries and one of the biggest countries in the world. So I was like okay.
22:57 - Speaker 1
So it's not really it's true like going to um different film festivals or like even when I was in Toronto and I started my career as a intern working at TIFF, so I have a long relationship with it. But you are exposed to films from all over the world and it really fills my spirit up because it's like there are people making incredible shit all over the world. You know that is like pretty mind blowing for the budgets they've been given. So, yes, while Hollywood is certainly the most well known, it is not the only one.
23:32 - Speaker 3
I also wanted to talk about that. You are established in as a director and you have experience directing a lot of television shows, including Grace and Frankie. Frankie Grown-ish Bless this Mess. Is it a challenge for you when you go on a television show that even especially since it wasn't the pilot like, oh, how do you tell your voice? Um, when you go into a show just to do a few episodes, how do you find your voice and establish it into a show? Does that make sense of a question.
24:11 - Speaker 1
I'm always curious about that yeah, it's, it's interesting.
24:16
It's interesting it's it's I wear different hats, you know, and I'm directing TV. I am a guest, right. So it's like you're in someone else's house. You take off your shoes, you try to leave a nice impression. I'm ultimately there to execute something that's already established. But I think I always try to bring who I am to how I carry myself on a set, how I work with actors, just my tone, what I find funny, you know, how do we? Okay, so this sort of maybe female guest star doesn't have the meatiest scene here, or it's like, you know, she's sort of primarily a romantic object. It's like, okay, how do we find something interesting in in this scene? Maybe it's even just her wardrobe, you know. Maybe it's like, oh, we've seen this sort of manic pixie dream girl. What's something interesting that this person could wear? Or just details like that, and they seem maybe not important. But it's like I hope to bring a texture of authenticity where I can.
25:33 - Speaker 3
And now that you've made your second film and we sort of touched on your first, mary Goes Around, which is also I was able to watch that one and it's about a woman like gripping with alcoholism. Have you, do you have a preference of writing and directing, like feature films, or do you like being like that guest at someone else's home, as you said, like doing a little pop in and doing a couple episodes?
26:04 - Speaker 1
I do. I have a lot of fun doing it. Um, it's like I mean, it's a tremendously stressful, high pressure job and it's not mine, so I don't necessarily bear the ultimate responsibility for it, and I'm given time, resources and money to do what I love and work with incredible actors, even just for a week or two at a time, like some of the most incredible actors um, I've met working in television. Um, that will only better my own work, so I'm very grateful for every tv job I've had do you have any plans next like that's it's the day old question isn't it in this profession.
26:52 - Speaker 3
What's next? Or are you just, like I did, the most personal project ever? Let me just go work with Jane again and yeah, yeah, I'm.
27:06 - Speaker 1
I was actually directing a couple episodes of something in Vancouver while the fitting in was being released, so January was a really, really busy month, um, so I'm I'm pretty tired and needing um just some restorative time, but not too much, cause I've I've got a new draft of a third feature to rewrite that I'm excited about, um, and going to be pitching a TV series, so the work definitely continues. Um, pitching a TV series, so the work definitely continues. Um, but for now, this week, while it's raining, I'm going to stay inside as much as possible.
27:46 - Speaker 3
Well, thank you so much, Molly, for coming on. Is there anything you would like to add that we didn't really touch?
27:49 - Speaker 1
on Um. The film fitting in will be on VOD in March exact date TBC. But people can follow me on Instagram at Molly Mary McGlynn and I'll post all the movie updates there.
28:02 - Speaker 3
Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you, Tara.
28:07 - Speaker 2
Thank you for listening to Media and Monuments, a service of women in film and video. Please remember to review, rate and subscribe wherever you listen to this podcast. For more information about WIF, please visit our website at wifasandfrankvictororg. Media and Monuments is produced by Sandra Abrams, candice Block, brandon Ferry and Tara Jabari, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio. For more information about our podcast, visit mediaandmonumentscom. That's a wrap.