Amber Cullum: Practicing Sabbath and Gratitude - Ep. 268의 전체 녹취록

name because I know you probably have a tagline to it. 56 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,520 Well, it's not, it's not really specific. It's not. It's just Christian joke of 57 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:30,120 the week. And it's super like, like think dad jokes that take a few minutes to 58 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:37,200 really fall fresh. And then a few minutes later, you're going, you know, that 59 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,400 was kind of funny. And so it's all about just keeping it a little bit light and 60 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:47,640 in light of some of the serious things that we do talk about on the show. So I 61 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,800 love that balance. Yeah, I think we have to have a sense of humor, right? We have 62 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,080 to. In fact, I think it's part of even spiritual formation and attitude, like if 63 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,000 we're just serious all the time. I mean, there's a lot in scripture about 64 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,200 laughing and laughter and joy, you know, the joy that really should be the 65 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,720 hallmark of our lives. So I love that. Guys, you have to go follow her on 66 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,240 Instagram. Thank you. It's a spiritual, it lifts my spirit. I can be in the middle 67 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,680 of like so many things. And then I'm like, Oh, Amber's got a joke of the week. Do 68 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:19,000 you write them all or do you find them different places? I find them. I wish I 69 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:23,000 was someone who wrote all of that, but I do go searching for them and my kids are 70 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:29,960 often like, Oh, later they'll love it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, and it's like, 71 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,520 listen, the more I embarrass you, the more I'm going to keep doing it. So that's 72 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,920 how the fun right there is like, Hey, did I did I make my kids upset? So yeah, 73 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,440 how are your kids, Amber? They're younger still, aren't they? Yeah. I mean, we're 74 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,920 starting to inch short high school now. My oldest is 14. He's going into high 75 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,480 school and then I have a 12 year old. She's a rising seventh grader and then 76 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:56,840 I'm an eight year old. So wow. Yeah. Mine are grown. My ages of teenagers are gone. 77 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:01,720 I've got a 21 and a 20. No, I should see how look at that. I mean, that's what 78 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:08,040 happens though. I have a 24 and a 27 year old. So it goes so fast. It does. And 79 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,640 when I feel like once they hit 21, you're like, I don't know, they're 20 something. 80 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,240 It's kind of, I mean, that's so bad. But well, yeah, I am. I'm like, I don't remember 81 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,360 what birthday I'm having. I, that exactly. I just celebrated a birthday and the 50 82 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,680 some things, you know, that thing. So there's a point where you're like, but anyway, 83 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,080 we celebrate life. We celebrate all things. So, but all that to say, I mean, as we're 84 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,880 talking, you guys can hear like, Amber is a very full life. So she's a mom. She's in 85 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,680 ministry. She's got a very high level podcast with high little guests, a lot of 86 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:46,680 preparation for that. Her kids, three kids and a full life. So Amber, we can make a 87 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,240 lot of excuses of why we don't have time for things like Sabbath, things like 88 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,640 gratitude. Oh, I'm too busy. My life is this out of the third, you know, Bible reading, 89 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:01,560 the basic disciplines. And we've talked a lot here on the podcast as a Bible teacher myself, 90 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,040 you know, reading the Bible is, is just, it's, it's a non-negotiable, you know, 91 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:11,640 not just reading, but understanding and applying and memorizing all of that. But 92 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:17,320 I want to kind of lean a little more with Amber today about Sabbath guys and gratitude 93 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:24,840 and how these are also crucial parts of our spiritual life. For one of my graduate courses 94 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:30,840 that I just finished, I took on the topic of Sabbath for my Old Testament theology class. 95 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:37,880 And so I was deep diving, Amber, in every possible scripture that mentions Sabbath 96 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,840 with, throughout the Old Testament. Now, it wasn't allowed in that paper to reference the 97 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,720 New Testament. It was an Old Testament theology class. So you can see the nuances of that. 98 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:54,600 But, but the fact that it is continued to be talked about in the New Testament, now Jesus says, 99 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,360 you know, I am the Sabbath. And so there's a whole concept of resting in Christ. And that's kind 100 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,520 of what I want to lean into. So talk to me about what Sabbath means to you and what it looks like 101 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:12,920 to you. Yeah, I mean, early on when we first started thinking about Sabbath as a family, 102 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:19,240 it was pre COVID, which was I'm so thankful for now because it became really a glue for our family, 103 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:25,640 a connection space. Even though we had tons of time to rest, it didn't freak us out as much. But 104 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,800 I remember when I first started thinking about it, hearing and reading and understanding from 105 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,480 some other teachers who also practice Sabbath and introduced it into their life. And one of the big 106 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:44,680 things was, you know, in

Genesis, we see God, he's just creating and creating from chaos, right? 107 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:54,200 Like that's how it's described. And then he hits that seventh day. And he sets it aside for rest. 108 00:08:54,200 --> 00:09:00,920 And it's easy to just kind of skip over that and wonder or not wonder about what was the purpose. 109 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:08,280 But when you start thinking about it, God wasn't resting because he was tired. He was resting because 110 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:17,240 he had completed a work. It was actually a part of celebration for him. And we see that as you go 111 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:25,400 on through the Old Testament, that rest wasn't something to punish people or to take things away 112 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:32,040 from them. But instead, it was actually to celebrate the finished work of God and to trust 113 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:40,440 that he will provide for you. You don't have to constantly make it happen, as Dallas Willard says. 114 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:47,000 And so that became something for us that was crucial because my husband was in the throes of 115 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:53,720 really getting a business on the ground here in Raleigh. And I mean, he was just burning it at every 116 00:09:53,720 --> 00:10:04,760 end. And so that really breathed life into us. Like we can trust that God will provide when we stop. 117 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:11,240 Yeah. So yeah, it's also it challenges our pride, Amber, to speak to what you're saying because it 118 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:18,120 reminds us that this is not all about us and it's not all up to us. There's so much that we see in 119 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:24,040 the Old Testament, like you mentioned, from Genesis throughout of themes of provision, themes of 120 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:31,560 deliverance, reminding them that they came out of bondage, themes of salvation and where their 121 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:38,840 true rest needs to be. And then when you move into the New Testament, you see that Jesus says, 122 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:45,240 that Jesus says, listen, I am your Sabbath. So it's really this invitation to completely rest 123 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,440 in him. One of the ways I began to look at it a little bit differently, Amber, is 124 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:57,320 as you just said, rest is not a punishment. And it's not, it's also not this reward that we kind 125 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:03,640 of dangle out like a carrot, like when I've done enough, then I'll rest. Well, that may never happen. 126 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,920 You know, for some of us that are overachievers or whatever, you know, we just push rest further and 127 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:15,800 further away. But talk about what it looks like and feels like when we lead from a posture of rest. 128 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:21,720 In other words, I'm going to serve, I'm going to minister, I'm going to create, I'm going to 129 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:30,520 communicate whatever we want to put in that blank from a place of rest, not rest being the reward of 130 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,920 all of my work. Yeah, I mean, and that's interesting, right? Because we see God do the work and then 131 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:44,600 he rests. Yeah. But the way that it's set up then in Jewish culture is, you know, Sabbath is actually 132 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:55,560 it's at the end of the week, but it really was preparation for them to then go in and do 133 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:01,560 the work the next week. So it was the ending, but it was also kind of the beginning. Yeah. And so I 134 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:12,760 think for us in today's world in modern times, this, it permeates everything we do, that the harder 135 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:22,360 we work and the more we put in, the reward is going to be more. Yet we see time and time again, that 136 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:30,680 that actually is not what happens. There are times that people work themselves to death and their 137 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:37,800 needs are barely met. And then there are times where people work in a healthy way and they 138 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:44,200 explode. Like, I mean, their business just takes off. And so we can't say it's only this one way, 139 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:56,840 right? Yeah. So when you decide, okay, I need to say, God, you are enough. Christ is enough for me. 140 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:04,920 And you choose to slow down and say, you've said that Sabbath is a day set aside and that I am to 141 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:12,840 keep it holy. Yeah. Then if I choose to practice that, I don't have to force everyone around me to 142 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:20,280 do the same thing. I don't have to make it look like I'm just going to sit on my bottom all day 143 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:26,920 and do absolutely nothing. And if I don't, I'm going to be condemned. Yeah. That's not rest. Right. 144 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:37,320 Rest is, okay, Lord, I'm really feeling like I need to do all the laundry. I need to go out and do 145 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:46,360 all the things in my yard in order for things to be complete. But instead, he is inviting us into, 146 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:56,760 can you just sit with me? Can you just trust that if you don't do that today, that it will still get 147 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:04,520 taken care of? Yeah. Can you trust that time away with your family, creative rest, as Dr. 148 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:12,840 Sandra Dawson says, what are the things that restore your soul and help you connect to the 149 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:19,000 Father? For me, it's, I love to walk in the woods. You know, that is very restorative for me. 150 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,720 Some people, it may be gardening and some people would say that's work. But is it work 151 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:32,760 for you? Or is that something that connects you to the Father? Yeah. And so those are the things 152 00:14:32,760 -->

00:14:41,080 to me that like when you restore yourself back to the Lord and you give him space to provide for you, 153 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:50,040 you then can move forward into work without being bitter. That's so good, Amber. That is so good. 154 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,360 And I think we don't even realize that we're carrying that level of bitterness and frustration 155 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,800 and kind of resentment when we don't allow God to restore our souls. We don't pause. 156 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:05,800 We don't allow it to be incomplete and to know that really there isn't going to be completeness, 157 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:12,280 this side of heaven. It's really an invitation to remind us of the rest that we eventually will have 158 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:17,800 in heaven. And we want to practice that here. As pastors, not only did I grow up in the ministry, 159 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,520 my parents were in the ministry as pastors, Amber, but now of course my husband and I have served 160 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:28,840 almost 30 years as pastors out here in the DC area. So I was taught younger, the same 161 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:34,920 taught younger, the Sabbath of Sunday, the Sabbath of Sunday. I remember like the blue laws, 162 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,280 you know, where like the stores were closed on Sunday and of course Chick-fil-A is still closed. 163 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:45,720 Don't you like always want Chick-fil-A on Sunday? You're like, no. Always. So my question here is, 164 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:53,240 talk to us about, and you kind of hinted at it there, like is this a 20, in your estimation, 165 00:15:53,240 --> 00:16:02,280 your study of it, should this be a one 24 hour period that we dedicate? And for me, for example, 166 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,760 Sunday, that does not feel like a Sabbath. Even though Sabbath is involving community and worship 167 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,840 and communal throughout scripture, we see that as another component. So there is this element of 168 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:22,040 gathering as a church or as a community or over food and fellowship. And in there's a community 169 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:27,880 aspect, but it doesn't always feel like that. That can happen for me on a Sunday, Amber. So 170 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:35,960 I think it's been a struggle for me to figure it out because of some of these things. So in your 171 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:43,960 thoughts and feelings and your approach to it, talk to us about the timeframe, the specificity 172 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:50,040 of how we should practice Sabbath. Well, I think it's interesting that we have done this on Sunday 173 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:59,320 because Jewish Sabbath is actually from Friday night. And then till sundown on Saturday. So we 174 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:06,360 already know that historically and contextually, we change things based on our culture. And so 175 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:13,880 you know, Jesus says this beautiful thing in Mark, and he says the Sabbath was made for man, 176 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:24,200 not man for the Sabbath. And so meaning, what has a lot of meaning, but one thing is that, again, 177 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:32,600 like I said earlier, it's not to punish you. It's not about like keeping another rule like 178 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:39,560 often the Jewish leaders did. Because in the New Testament, we see like, 179 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:50,280 we are to find our rest in Christ. However, it is something that God himself practiced. So I think 180 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:59,400 if God himself practiced it, it is worthy of our attention and also of our practice. So for our 181 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:07,560 family, we do kick off Sabbath around five or six on a Friday with a meal with a Shabbat meal, 182 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:14,440 like Jewish people would do. But it's not exactly like what they would do. We just think that marking 183 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:25,880 and setting aside that time to say, okay, it's time for us to move into rest, move into just 184 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:35,720 this day being set apart from the others is a good habit to go ahead and develop so that you 185 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:42,520 even know because it's so easy to not have a habit and then you just quit practicing it. 186 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:49,800 But in our family, we do five to six p.m. on Friday until noon on Saturday. We have yet to make it 187 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:57,880 to 24 hours. And I'll be honest with you, as my children have gotten older, it has become 188 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:05,080 harder to even have that chunk of time because of things like sports or they want to go for the 189 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:14,360 sleepover. And so I have to often remind myself, okay, Sabbath was like, what was it made for? 190 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:21,320 Was it made to be a rule? Or was it made really for a restoration of the soul? 191 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:31,560 A connection with Christ. And so we can let go of some of that legalism that creeps in with all of 192 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:37,560 us because you know, you've got these two extremes. You can be legalistic and I'm sticking to the 24 193 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,000 hours and nothing is going to change it. And then you can go to the other extreme, which is where I 194 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:50,200 would say our modern day church mostly is. I get to do whatever I want, right? Because there's freedom 195 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,800 in Christ. Yeah, I would say both extremes are dangerous. That's good. That's really helpful. 196 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:01,320 That's really helpful. Yeah. And so that's what we do. And I even think that for some people, 197 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:09,960 you may have to piece things together throughout the week, like you said with ministry. I mean, 198 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:16,360 all of my staff at our church, they all work on

Sundays. So there Sabbath has to be Friday or 199 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:22,920 Saturday because that's our two days where they're not working. So there's flexibility there. And I 200 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:28,040 just think we have to avoid the extremes. Agreed. That's so helpful. And that helps us to kind of 201 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,840 lift off, like you said, that burden of legalism, but at the same time, not to throw it out and to 202 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:40,280 say, whatever I want, it's a self care day. It's a pedicure day. I mean, I would guard us. I would 203 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:47,720 caution us about equating Sabbath with self care. I've seen that kind of trend and that concerns 204 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:54,120 me a bit Amber, just because that's really not the original intent of Sabbath in the old or the 205 00:20:54,120 --> 00:21:00,200 New Testament. There needs to be some element of restorative practice with you and the Lord. 206 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:06,200 And the intent is to restore in community with others. Like you said, you attempt at least to 207 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,720 practice as a family. Maybe you want to try four hours on a day where you say, okay, I'm not going 208 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:17,640 to have my phone on me. I'm going to do something that's restorative. That might even 209 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:23,480 feel long, but just to try something, I've had a Shabbat dinner in Israel, which was a beautiful 210 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:30,040 experience. And then one in my last trip there, we were getting on the bus and our guide said, 211 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:35,320 oh, I'm apologize if any of you got on the Shabbat elevator. And someone said, what is that? Of 212 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:42,440 course, it was Saturday. And he said, well, it pre pushes every single button on the elevator. 213 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,320 So that because you're not allowed to push a button. Oh, wow. That's what we're talking about 214 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,680 in the extremes. Yeah. As I was mentioning is, you know, straining a nad and missing 215 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,880 the forest for the trees. So we're not saying you're not allowed to push a button on an elevator. So 216 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:06,920 but if the other extreme is it's, it's, it's, it's more often not practiced at all in Western 217 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:16,280 culture or it's very poorly practiced or arbitrarily a self care day. So Amber and I are just 218 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:22,600 encouraging us to at least go study it. You mentioned Sacred Rest. Dr. Sondra. Yes. It's a 219 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,160 great book about the types of rest we need. You might study that book. She's been on the podcast. 220 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,880 We've talked about that book. You might look at, in fact, I referenced that book in my paper. 221 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,760 You might realize I am greatly deficient in this particular type of rest. And

so it helps you to 222 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:45,160 identify if rest for me, Amber, if I just go sit on a beach, for example, I'll get restless very 223 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,840 quick. I need to almost be doing something. But I recognize when I read her book, okay, I need 224 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:57,640 mental rest or I need creative rest or I need auditory rest. I mean, musician. So my brain feels 225 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,880 cluttered a lot or during, during the last two years of my masters, I was just constantly mentally 226 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:11,480 fatigued. So it's identifying what type of rest is the Lord inviting you to and that might change 227 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,760 from season to season. So you don't need to be legalistic about it, but we do encourage you to 228 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,800 incorporate it. And any thoughts you have there, Amber, before I ask one more question about 229 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,800 gratitude. Amber. Yeah, I just wanted to say real quick, like something, a quote that I heard early 230 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,720 on, it's by a man, it's the last name, I think it's Heschel. He says, if you work with your mind, 231 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:39,400 Sabbath with your hands. Dr. Sondra. Yes. And if you work with your hands, Sabbath with your mind. 232 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:45,560 Amber. And my husband and I, when we first started, saw such a huge difference in both of us, like 233 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:53,160 for me, going out or having coffee with two friends is very restorative. Like it is a, 234 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,560 and I'm talking about close friends. You know, it's restful for me. We talk about just all kinds 235 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:06,200 of things from spiritual to family to whatever. That sucks the life out of my husband. 236 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:14,360 Dr. Sondra. Interesting. Yeah. But, and he'll go out and would work on a Saturday and he enjoys 237 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:21,000 that and that breeds life into him. Whereas for me, I don't want to do anything around the house. 238 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:27,560 I, you know, I don't, I don't want to go out. I'm not a gardener, but that might be the way that you, 239 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:34,280 Sabbath. And what's amazing is what your body and your brain and the way you connect with the Lord, 240 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:41,240 that changes sometimes too, based on, like you said, you're in school right now. So reading, 241 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:47,800 probably not that restorative for you. Right. Right. But it might be again, once you're no longer, 242 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,640 you know, and so there's things like that, that we, we just have to constantly be asking ourselves 243 00:24:53,640 --> 00:25:00,200 questions and asking the Lord, like you said, what are you inviting me into and then do it. 244 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:07,000 That's good. Yeah. And not impose on someone else at the same exact way that you experience and 245 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:13,400 practice Sabbath is exactly the way that they need to do it. Right. It's a, it's a, it's a broader 246 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,680 conversation than we can cover in the half hour we have here. But I just again, wanted to invite 247 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,480 you to think about it and maybe to challenge what you've been raised with a particular thought or 248 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:29,160 just haven't thought about it at all. One more piece that I want to bring in Amber, before we 249 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,640 kind of wrap up is gratitude. It's, it's in the space that we're talking about. I know we could 250 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:40,840 have a whole different conversation about gratitude, but just help us understand how this is a critical 251 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:47,800 component of our strengthening our relationship with the Lord and with others. Goodness, I could 252 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,160 talk about this. I know, right. So I'll try to go bring it up at the end. I'm like, uh, quickly, 253 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:59,960 but it is such, it's such a needed, um, it, there is a component of gratitude in Sabbath. 254 00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:04,280 That's why I would at least want to touch on it because you're, you're expressing that heart of 255 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:10,360 gratitude for the Lord, for what he's done, for what the finished work, it's already finished. So 256 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:17,400 there's this, there's this posture of gratitude that we're bringing into this even conversation. So 257 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,560 maybe just give us a nugget. I know we can't explore it, but you could also let people know 258 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,480 you have something on your website that they could explore this a little bit more. 259 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:32,120 Yeah. I have a free gratitude practice there that is actually at graceenoughpodcast.com 260 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:39,880 slash free gratitude practice. And the reason why I say practice is because there is so much research, 261 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,920 and it's all through the Bible, but there is also scientific. So I always say science, 262 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:52,520 it all science is God science. It was his begin, it was his idea from the beginning. And so when 263 00:26:52,520 --> 00:27:01,000 science proves that regular consistent practice of gratitude will actually make you a happier person. 264 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:08,920 That's because they're just figuring out that what God already knew all along. And, um, whether 265 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:16,680 that's you starting by just journaling things you're thankful for and then moving into things 266 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,960 where even now like Philippians 4-8 where it's like, you know, think about what is good, lovely, 267 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:30,280 pure. Um, I have turned that into a way of practicing gratitude. So think about all things 268

00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,360 that are good. Well, some people will say there's nothing good, but God. And I'm like, okay, don't 269 00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:42,600 get that specific. We're not talking about legalism. Right. Watching a mother nurse her baby is good 270 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:50,600 and pure and lovely. Thank God for that. Yeah. Looking at the birds, building a nest, that is good. 271 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:57,960 Yeah. Thank God for that. And so even going down that list and choosing to practice gratitude in 272 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:06,360 that way will begin to transform who you are. Yeah. And I know it because I really struggle with 273 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:13,880 being a negative, um, just glass half empty person. And the consistent practice over time has 274 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:21,000 radically transformed my life. And I think that's why God consistently, it's one of the five Levitical 275 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:27,400 offerings. Yeah. A thank offering. Yeah. I could talk about that forever. Yeah. And, and that he, 276 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:34,760 he did that, um, because he, I mean, that's, it's that important. Give things back to the Lord. So 277 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,760 yeah, gratitude's awesome. Yeah. I would love to see a book that you write on that, by the way. 278 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,880 Just, just a little plug there. Um, and you mentioned something as we wrap up it, 279 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,080 gratitude is a choice. Like these things that we're talking about today, we don't naturally, 280 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:58,680 I'm going to just practice Sabbath for 24 hours. We don't naturally just wake up feeling so grateful. 281 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:04,920 I mean, our culture doesn't really, um, encourage those practices either. But earlier on you talked 282 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,920 about this bitterness that can develop in our hearts and our lives. It can become slow. It can get 283 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:17,800 there slowly, but over time we just realized we're, we're just not grateful. We're not seeing the 284 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:23,720 blessings of the God of God, the provision of God. So I just wanted to see us to see for a moment how 285 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:30,520 these two things are related. They are their own topic and Amber has resources on both on her website. 286 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,160 I'm going to put that link on our show notes. So she's got a number of resources there and, 287 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,000 and podcasts you can listen to about Sabbath, if you want a deep dive more, 288 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:45,640 and this practice of gratitude, um, until our book is out and we can read it, um, go there and learn 289 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,880 all the things. Um, and yeah, we always have something we can be great before it goes back 290 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,600 to practice, practice of celebration and appreciation for who God is and what he's doing and the 291 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,680 finished work. That's the good news. The work is finished. You know, of course we have to work 292 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,360 and we have to do what God's called us to do, but we get to do that from a place of invitation, 293 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:13,480 into his kingdom, not to earn, not to earn. That's the, that's a big difference. And that's a life 294 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:21,640 lesson that I had to learn many years ago. I was striving to earn as opposed to welcoming the invitation 295 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:28,920 to rest. And it's a big difference. You might still be producing a lot and working, but the 296 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,120 internal motivation is from a different plot, a different posture. And so that's, that's kind 297 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960 of where it comes from in me. But Amber, I always like to close with one last question before you 298 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,600 pray us out. And that is you're making your life matter for the kingdom in so many ways, just, 299 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,680 just even these couple of topics we've been able to just barely scratch the surface of today. 300 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,080 But other than Jesus, who in the Bible really encourages you to make life matter? 301 00:30:54,520 --> 00:31:00,040 Goodness, Angela, I feel like you could ask me this and one week it would be one person and 302 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:08,760 then next week it would be a different person. So I just, I just, I would say currently in this 303 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:16,520 season, it would probably be Deborah. And I think the reason why is because I think we're in a 304 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:27,080 cultural moment where we're just asking a lot of questions about women and do we have a place even 305 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:34,840 though like I know we have a place in not, not the kingdom of God, but in the ministry work of 306 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:43,320 the broader church. And I think I would just like to know from her, tell me what it was like. 307 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:53,320 You know, tell me what life was like for you as you were leading men. And what was your relationship 308 00:31:53,320 --> 00:32:00,040 like with God during that time? What did you feel like he was speaking to you? And so, yeah, 309 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:07,160 at this current moment, I think it would be Deborah. Yeah. I love her. She's one of my, 310 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,360 one of my heroines of the Bible. And again, she's entered Amherst introduced a whole other topic 311 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,760 that's very close to my heart. We've talked about it here a few times in the podcast. 312 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:23,880 You know, I believe strongly and advocate for women in ministry and in all roles. And, you know, 313 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,600 wherever you are on the theological spectrum, if you're listening, God invites all of us to kingdom 314 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:34,840

work. And we don't have to have a title to do it. But we never want to marginalize or mute 315 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,440 someone's voice and their contribution to the kingdom. And we don't see that in any of the 316 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:48,120 New Testament. We see women invited to this great kingdom work. The work is huge and the harvest 317 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:54,040 is plentiful. So we need labor. We need all hands on deck. And so I'm grateful for your voice in 318 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,160 the, in all areas that you're serving. And I think Deborah's going to have a very long line in 319 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:07,720 a very long line of like, how did you do this? So yeah, it said village life ceased until she 320 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:14,600 arose. Yeah. And all, and all those people in Romans 16, I want to sit down with those women too. 321 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:21,320 Absolutely. I'm actually my final research project from my master's is the role of community in 322 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:27,720 carrying our call and ministry and all the people that served alongside of Paul. And how we don't 323 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,560 lose heart in the ministry and in the hardship moments. And part of the way we don't lose heart 324 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:43,800 is this, this beautiful community, men and women that are called to do this. And so you see so many 325 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:52,520 mentions of men and women, Greek Gentile, Roman, beautiful, diverse, eclectic tapestry of the 326 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,800 body of Christ. And that's, I want to read that. I know all of our, when it's done, girl, I'm 327 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:04,360 camping out right now. And so my mode is like summer. And yet I've got, I've got to climb this one 328 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:11,240 last, but I'm grateful to be studying it. It's a necessary conversation because ministry of any 329 00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:17,160 kind is hard, but it's way harder than it needs to be if we're doing it by ourselves. So I don't 330 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:23,960 see that to be a biblical framework that we're called to do this in community. So we need everybody. 331 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,720 And so Deborah, we thank you and many others. Paul, we thank you for inviting so many of us, 332 00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:34,760 Jesus, ultimately, we thank you for inviting us into this beautiful work of seeing the kingdom, 333 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:42,840 the upside down, the counter-cultural kingdom established in our own lives, first and foremost, 334 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,320 and then in our generation and whatever way God has called us to do that. So, Amber, thank you so 335 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:53,480 much. Can you pray for us as we kind of sign off today, especially for any of our listeners who, 336 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,840 maybe this was new for them, and they really want to strengthen their relationship with the 337 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,120 Lord and others through these practices? Thank you so much. You're welcome. Dear heavenly Father, 338 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:08,920 we come to you and ask God that your spirit would move in our hearts, would move in our minds, 339 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:18,120 would move in our bodies as we consider practices, God, that you have laid out for us and invited us 340 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:27,800 into and have said this is a way to live a flourishing life. Gotta open our hearts to step 341 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:35,560 into those places and equip us to practice things like Sabbath, to make habits of daily 342 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:45,480 gratitude practice, God, of digging into scripture, of opening our eyes to see you at work in the world 343 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:53,560 around us. Father, we thank you so much that you are near to the brokenhearted, that you are near 344 00:35:53,560 --> 00:36:03,720 to those who draw near to you. God, I pray that as we close out this time that you would draw 345 00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:15,560 all those people in who need a fresh word, a fresh glance, a fresh closeness with you. 346 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:22,440 It's in Jesus' name that we pray. Amen. Thanks for joining the conversation. 347 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,640 If you've been inspired to make life matter, share a review and subscribe at Anywhere You Listen to 348 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:35,720 Podcasts so you don't miss an episode. Connect with me at AngelaDenadio.com, Facebook at AngelaDenadioVOV, 349 00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:53,480 and Instagram at AngelaDenadio. Until next week, let's make life matter.