The First Negotiation Is With Yourself | Dr. Bruno Verdini의 전체 녹취록

winning for me also means securing the core interest that 00:05:20.085 --> 00:05:23.830 you, Laila, care about, that will lead to a certain set of behaviors. 00:05:23.976 --> 00:05:29.785 And if you and I consider that whatever you and I produce should also deliver 00:05:29.785 --> 00:05:34.279 a win for everybody around us, then that will lead to a different set of behaviors. 00:05:34.558 --> 00:05:38.775 And so naturally, in any domain of life, you're constantly negotiating with 00:05:38.775 --> 00:05:44.264 yourself about what is your perspective, about who do you have responsibility for. 00:05:44.815 --> 00:05:49.568 And the more you can expand your resonance box of ethics of love or virtue, 00:05:49.911 --> 00:05:53.481 the more courageous you can become to 00:05:54.578 --> 00:05:59.280 be authentic, because you'll feel much more, you'll see yourself represented 00:05:59.460 --> 00:06:03.995 in a much larger set of stakeholders and therefore responsible for the way in 00:06:03.995 --> 00:06:06.461 which you can impact them and they can impact you back. 00:06:06.629 --> 00:06:09.125 And that is a spiritual journey. 00:06:09.636 --> 00:06:15.455 I think that sounds wonderful, but I feel if you're talking about the self and 00:06:15.455 --> 00:06:21.075 how you really need to negotiate with yourself, I see it also in terms of the 00:06:21.075 --> 00:06:23.045 self within the context. 00:06:23.045 --> 00:06:28.165 So wherever you are now, for instance, you're here, you're at MIT, 00:06:28.165 --> 00:06:33.515 you're in Boston, and the context here is very different than if you move, 00:06:33.515 --> 00:06:36.438 let's say, to Portugal and that context. 00:06:36.542 --> 00:06:39.486 We seem to be in synergy, on the contrary. What I'm saying is, 00:06:40.757 --> 00:06:45.108 When you negotiate, you're communicating to others what you care about. 00:06:46.305 --> 00:06:50.931 That's a universal action, regardless of the language or culture where you find yourself. 00:06:51.210 --> 00:06:54.244 There will be different manifestations of that communication, 00:06:54.244 --> 00:07:01.884 but in the end, to negotiate, it's the art and science of figuring out what you stand for. 00:07:01.884 --> 00:07:11.314 And so wherever you go, you have a chance to engage with a set of virtues with 00:07:11.314 --> 00:07:14.514 that environment, regardless of the changes of that environment or not. 00:07:14.514 --> 00:07:20.904 And those virtues are determined, not doubt about it, by an array of experiences 00:07:20.904 --> 00:07:23.631 in your background, choices that you've made. 00:07:24.286 --> 00:07:31.364 And so the focus of the pedagogy that I've been very fortunate to develop in, 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.252 the United States, certainly at MIT and at Harvard Law School, but, 00:07:36.931 --> 00:07:41.444 before that, as a human being born and raised in Mexico, a very different environment, 00:07:42.184 --> 00:07:43.459 than Boston, certainly, 00:07:44.231 --> 00:07:48.544 is one that made the case that the conversation starts with your assessment of your moral compass. 00:07:49.061 --> 00:07:53.937 And that is universal. That is a challenge that across religious traditions, 00:07:54.552 --> 00:07:56.526 across philosophical insights, 00:07:58.540 --> 00:08:03.620 you can engage with. So, what I found in my work around the world for the last decades is that... 00:08:06.627 --> 00:08:13.587 There are souls across all industries, across all political spectrums that are, 00:08:14.667 --> 00:08:20.287 when given an opportunity for, with pedagogy for them to rethink how they relate 00:08:20.287 --> 00:08:26.787 to the world and for them to say what in their own negotiation playbook can take the next step, 00:08:27.316 --> 00:08:33.318 that this occurs organically, that the souls that are willing to do so achieve it. 00:08:33.684 --> 00:08:36.697 And so to me, it's in synergy with what you say. It's just a matter of what 00:08:36.697 --> 00:08:38.821 people want to, they're open to. 00:08:39.477 --> 00:08:42.500 Yes, I like that. That's the whole thing, I think. 00:08:42.866 --> 00:08:46.517 And I like what you're saying about the values and all that, 00:08:46.517 --> 00:08:48.456 because I feel that's our anchor. 00:08:49.013 --> 00:08:54.387 And I think maybe in the book, Knowledge Mindfulness, I mentioned that we called 00:08:54.387 --> 00:09:01.157 it the spiritual DNA, because like you said, this is the essence that can be in me. 00:09:01.157 --> 00:09:07.473 And I'm on one part of the globe and the same essence is in you somewhere else. 00:09:07.932 --> 00:09:16.237 And it's just, again, maybe how do we take out the rust that kind of accumulated 00:09:16.237 --> 00:09:21.857 through our learnings, through the history, through our culture? 00:09:21.857 --> 00:09:26.027 And maybe that's where I was talking about the context, because sometimes our 00:09:26.027 --> 00:09:28.122 context brings a lot of rust. 00:09:28.592 --> 00:09:38.627 So how much can you really be conscious and aware of so much of what you don't 00:09:38.627 --> 00:09:40.508 need anymore, what's pulling you back? 00:09:40.949 --> 00:09:45.647 And that's, I think, what you were saying so much about knowing your blind spots, 00:09:45.647 --> 00:09:51.987 knowing your biases, your assumptions, why? Because at the end, 00:09:51.987 --> 00:09:55.297 if it's not feeding you in the right way, then 00:09:57.058 --> 00:09:59.670 It needs to, we need to weed it out, 00:09:59.926 --> 00:10:04.147 Right? Yes, yes, yes, you're absolutely right. And I know from enjoying your 00:10:04.147 --> 00:10:06.956 book when I read it a couple years ago… 00:10:09.568 --> 00:10:13.556 Mindfulness and knowledge, the two elements that you highlighted, 00:10:13.736 --> 00:10:15.489 they are lived experiences. 00:10:16.006 --> 00:10:21.457 And so we humans tend to, and the neuroscience confirms it, to respond to stories. 00:10:22.478 --> 00:10:27.537 That's how

we learn when we're young. And we're surrounded by stories all the 00:10:27.537 --> 00:10:29.084 time, but we have choice. 00:10:31.127 --> 00:10:36.254 And I work at MIT, so I'm surrounded by brilliant engineers behind the algorithms in many environments. 00:10:36.705 --> 00:10:43.932 We can choose to listen to stories that activate the best on us. 00:10:44.327 --> 00:10:50.767 I remember very luminously Nelson Mandela making the case, of course, 00:10:50.767 --> 00:10:54.306 he was fighting against apartheid, 00:10:56.088 --> 00:11:00.378 but as one great mentor in the field, Billy Ury used to say, 00:11:00.744 --> 00:11:05.197 he didn't write a book, Long Walk Away from Apartheid. 00:11:05.197 --> 00:11:08.249 He wrote a book called Long Walk to Freedom. 00:11:08.511 --> 00:11:14.414 That is to activate the virtue we're driving to, a virtue that any soul would want to relate to. 00:11:14.705 --> 00:11:20.817 And so we can look back at the past 10 years and in many domains where societies are debating, 00:11:21.688 --> 00:11:26.657 or grappling where should we go, there's movements against and in favor 00:11:26.657 --> 00:11:31.427 of and it tends to be more lasting to figure out what is it that we can be in 00:11:31.427 --> 00:11:34.851 favor of, that is unifying, that is a synergy. 00:11:39.658 --> 00:11:41.829 And it’s a constant battle, across human history, to navigate that. 00:11:42.096 --> 00:11:45.637 True. But I think your bestseller book too, Winning Together, 00:11:46.218 --> 00:11:49.516 I mean, I really, really was very excited to read it because, 00:11:49.516 --> 00:11:54.696 again, I felt it's so aligned with the philosophy of knowledge mindfulness, 00:11:54.696 --> 00:11:57.061 so much about togetherness. 00:11:57.444 --> 00:12:04.856 And maybe your method is negotiation or your field of focus is how do you get 00:12:04.856 --> 00:12:08.335 into the togetherness through negotiation. 00:12:08.712 --> 00:12:14.616 And where we get into the togetherness through our knowing system and how to 00:12:14.616 --> 00:12:19.086 figure it out and how to really evolve it as we go. What brought you? 00:12:19.086 --> 00:12:20.906 What is the story behind this? 00:12:22.284 --> 00:12:30.816 Well, having been born and raised in Mexico, my mom is from the Gulf Coast of 00:12:30.816 --> 00:12:32.917 Mexico, a state called Tabasco, and, 00:12:34.938 --> 00:12:40.056 she met my dad, who is French-Italian, when they were very young in a bookstore. 00:12:40.056 --> 00:12:45.346 And they got married a few months afterwards. And they’ve remained together for many decades. 00:12:45.346 --> 00:12:47.826 They met in a bookstore. Yes, in a bookstore. I like that. 00:12:49.781 --> 00:12:53.246 Quite a spark. Right. And it remains to these days. So I was very blessed. 00:12:54.303 --> 00:12:59.306 Humble backgrounds, but a family full of love, to be exposed from the get-go 00:12:59.306 --> 00:13:04.717 to different cultural, spiritual traditions, my dad being

Lutheran and my mom being Catholic. 00:13:06.987 --> 00:13:12.850 And I was in a home where access to the literature from different civilizations, 00:13:14.066 --> 00:13:19.776 from different beautiful religious traditions, was informing my awe for the world. 00:13:19.776 --> 00:13:23.986 So I was having the opportunity to learn from that. And so when I came to the 00:13:23.986 --> 00:13:30.654 United States and its incredible mix of hardworking, 00:13:32.028 --> 00:13:36.863 driven souls to make a better life for themselves coming from across different 00:13:36.863 --> 00:13:41.763 parts of the planet and to contribute to this great nation and eventually falling 00:13:41.763 --> 00:13:46.169 in love and marrying an American woman, I've always had this 00:13:47.156 --> 00:13:50.653 commitment to build bridges between two neighbors in this case Mexico and the 00:13:50.653 --> 00:13:55.873 United States, and I've been honored to be involved in that mission of trying 00:13:55.873 --> 00:13:58.488 to figure out and telling stories, 00:13:59.985 --> 00:14:07.433 of the souls that daily find ways to render the trade, the largest between the 00:14:07.433 --> 00:14:08.942 two nations in this case, 00:14:10.742 --> 00:14:14.673 fairer and more effective for the people who want to see more prosperity on 00:14:14.673 --> 00:14:15.973 both sides of the borders. 00:14:15.973 --> 00:14:23.673 And so the book tries, and achieved that goal of communicating flat out which are 00:14:23.673 --> 00:14:27.396 the tactics or strategies that people on the left and the right, 00:14:28.233 --> 00:14:32.004 find useful, Democrats and Republicans, to, 00:14:33.502 --> 00:14:38.503 reach deals that are implementable, sustainable, and resilient across different 00:14:38.503 --> 00:14:42.424 administrations because they actually do deliver benefits for the communities, 00:14:42.697 --> 00:14:45.791 whether they are in Utah and Arizona or New Mexico, California, 00:14:46.174 --> 00:14:48.316 Wyoming and so on, Colorado, Texas, 00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:51.443 and vice versa with the border states in Mexico. 00:14:51.443 --> 00:14:56.809 And so I became an ambassador of those ideas, 00:14:58.313 --> 00:15:03.409 originated in a couple nations. And then I've been blessed to be able to express 00:15:03.409 --> 00:15:08.593 them in 80 other countries because the ideas are not 00:15:09.516 --> 00:15:14.009 tethered to a specific moment in time, they're tethered to specific mindsets. 00:15:14.509 --> 00:15:19.889 And mindsets are something that we can trade around the world. 00:15:19.889 --> 00:15:21.376 There are no tariffs on mindsets. 00:15:21.707 --> 00:15:26.519 I mean, there's so many things I want to ask you about, but I think what caught 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:33.461 my attention is creativity and mixed heritage. 00:15:34.308 --> 00:15:40.856 These differences, diversity that comes in a way to create something new. 00:15:41.529 --> 00:15:52.279 That newness is something missing

so much in today's world because of closing down 00:15:54.788 --> 00:16:03.399 on fields, people, nations, whatever it is, that you feel that flow that we 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:06.288 need for newness to come, for creativity to come. 00:16:06.572 --> 00:16:12.424 And when I say creativity, creative ideas, because that's what life is all about. 00:16:12.598 --> 00:16:18.856 Evolvement, development, leveling up is all about newness, generation of knowledge. 00:16:19.303 --> 00:16:25.433 And I feel your mixed heritage, learnings, exposure, in a way, 00:16:26.255 --> 00:16:35.009 got you that broad perspective to see more than just that limited, narrow view. 00:16:36.257 --> 00:16:42.039 What can you comment? I would say that it's a shared experience for billions 00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:47.209 of souls here on Earth in the sense that when you are exposed to different narratives 00:16:47.209 --> 00:16:49.173 about your nation, your region, 00:16:50.717 --> 00:16:55.872 your community, your neighborhood, if you listen to just a story… 00:16:57.311 --> 00:17:01.280 it will leave spots out. Say I would put even in sports, right? 00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:04.340 Like when you're looking at the World Cup and you're rooting for three different 00:17:04.340 --> 00:17:05.740 teams and three different nations, 00:17:06.060 --> 00:17:08.590 you're hearing over the four years preparing for a World Cup, 00:17:08.782 --> 00:17:12.610 three different narratives about how the federation works, how the country thinks 00:17:12.610 --> 00:17:17.490 about the players, how they invest, how they think about preparing for a competition and so on. 00:17:17.762 --> 00:17:23.160 In such a small example, though it's the same activity with the same rules for 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.049 all involved, unlike the much more complex political and economic world, 00:17:27.467 --> 00:17:31.664 you see that people make choices about what they think should be the hierarchy of priorities, 00:17:32.216 --> 00:17:36.970 what should be the process that leads to a specific outcome, how they conceive of themselves, 00:17:37.945 --> 00:17:40.099 the courage, the mission that they see, and so on. 00:17:40.505 --> 00:17:45.910 And so as many people in this planet, when you are exposed to different traditions 00:17:46.188 --> 00:17:51.099 and stories at home, and even if you are not, if you choose to explore them with curiosity, 00:17:51.767 --> 00:17:57.380 what you discover is we have much more agency than we believe in terms of what 00:17:57.380 --> 00:17:59.760 we choose to take from those stories. 00:18:00.201 --> 00:18:06.280 And so when I would look at stories about how Mexico, and it continues to this day 00:18:06.280 --> 00:18:13.112 to face many challenges of an uneven distribution of wealth and an uneven generation of that wealth, 00:18:14.969 --> 00:18:18.243 and I won't delve into the politics of it all, but there were choices about, 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:24.104 then, what does it mean for you? And were these stories the same as the ones 00:18:24.104 --> 00:18:28.034 that I heard on my Italian heritage side? Or on the French heritage side? 00:18:28.034 --> 00:18:31.744 Or when I would learn from people how in the United States think about society and so on? 00:18:31.744 --> 00:18:37.554 And so I think that, and I'm lucky at MIT to be surrounded by students from 00:18:37.554 --> 00:18:40.191 around the world, but mostly students from the United States, 00:18:40.858 --> 00:18:47.337 whose heritage comes from across all states in the nation and well beyond, 00:18:47.871 --> 00:18:52.834 and whose interpretations about what success means will also vary. 00:18:52.834 --> 00:18:56.924 And so you're right to highlight that I was blessed to be exposed to that diversity 00:18:56.924 --> 00:19:02.145 of thought and I chose to pick in that diversity not to see our differences 00:19:02.348 --> 00:19:06.946 as roadblocks but our differences as richness. 00:19:08.724 --> 00:19:12.114 And that changes your perspective. It doesn't mean that there's not a whole 00:19:12.114 --> 00:19:18.411 host of economic or social dynamics that nations have to figure out to maintain 00:19:22.363 --> 00:19:29.213 peace with one another. But if we depart associating our differences as, 00:19:31.134 --> 00:19:37.258 you're wrong and I'm right, we run the risk of leaving outside of the umbrella 00:19:37.827 --> 00:19:43.092 a whole host of human beings who would be additive to our partnerships because we 00:19:43.092 --> 00:19:44.555 cast them as enemies when they're not. 00:19:45.014 --> 00:19:51.922 Yeah, and I do believe that expanding your context in terms of the diversity 00:19:51.922 --> 00:19:56.159 we were talking about to include what we call weak ties. 00:19:56.577 --> 00:20:04.632 So weak ties, why is it, I think, rich in some ways? Because it feeds you with 00:20:04.632 --> 00:20:08.176 information that you are not so familiar with. 00:20:08.721 --> 00:20:11.990 You know, if you're in the same context, in the same community, 00:20:12.512 --> 00:20:17.487 whatever you think is diversity at that, but again, at one point in time, 00:20:17.766 --> 00:20:22.198 you're sharing kind of the same information flow in one way or another. 00:20:22.431 --> 00:20:28.002 And that's where I found that mixed heritage comes because that's the strength 00:20:28.002 --> 00:20:34.652 of weak ties, where it feeds the novelty that you need to create something new, which is. 00:20:34.652 --> 00:20:38.743 But that takes me again to negotiation. 00:20:38.893 --> 00:20:44.083 Since you started, let's say, till now, what is the differences in the, 00:20:44.379 --> 00:20:49.964 I don't know, tactics, values, all the combination of what you're teaching? 00:20:50.666 --> 00:20:55.172 I want to know what are the changes that you're feeling, because change is the 00:20:55.172 --> 00:20:56.750 name of the game. We know that. 00:20:57.115 --> 00:21:00.401 And we know by now the

complexity of the world we're in. 00:21:00.906 --> 00:21:08.940 So I just am assuming, again, that that would affect the strategies of negotiation, 00:21:09.358 --> 00:21:13.122 the way you kind of come to your goals, 00:21:14.025 --> 00:21:17.583 The togetherness you're looking for. Is it easier? Is it harder? 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:19.832 Where are we in that landscape? 00:21:19.832 --> 00:21:24.072 Well, we'll need a week-long podcast then to go through the changes over the 00:21:24.072 --> 00:21:26.853 last 15 years. Let me pick a few of them. 00:21:26.975 --> 00:21:31.555 At first glance, what I say that has changed the most, perhaps, 00:21:31.706 --> 00:21:34.254 between my beginning and now... 00:21:36.176 --> 00:21:42.161 Is the speed with which people can put themselves in a position to strategize more… 00:21:44.541 --> 00:21:49.233 than just acquire information. By that I mean that with the advent of artificial 00:21:49.233 --> 00:21:50.706 intelligence you can have, 00:21:52.192 --> 00:21:56.488 thoughtfully, a team that in the past would have had to spend, 00:21:57.434 --> 00:22:03.153 many weeks to understand all the position papers of a specific diplomatic delegation 00:22:03.153 --> 00:22:06.823 that they would see in the future from another nation, or a specific corporation 00:22:06.823 --> 00:22:08.073 that they would be negotiating with, 00:22:08.073 --> 00:22:12.543 they would need to have a team study that and then define a strategy. 00:22:12.543 --> 00:22:20.043 Now you can have a well-defined tool that summarizes for you the core elements of that information. 00:22:20.414 --> 00:22:26.272 And then a much larger chunk of your time can be devoted to strategize. And now what do we do? 00:22:26.945 --> 00:22:32.100 And so that is a promising transformation because actually it levels the playing field. 00:22:32.355 --> 00:22:37.283 Let's say that a specific nation is looking forward to partner with another 00:22:37.283 --> 00:22:42.173 nation and that nation, let's call it Türkiye, and all the documents 00:22:42.173 --> 00:22:43.780 from the core stakeholders in government, 00:22:45.723 --> 00:22:47.628 and corporations will be in Turkish. 00:22:48.011 --> 00:22:52.324 And the delegation that is planning to meet with them does not speak Turkish. 00:22:53.097 --> 00:22:57.572 But now with AI, what they can do is get to the bottom of the core insights 00:22:57.787 --> 00:22:59.019 in the regional language. 00:22:59.842 --> 00:23:03.901 Without having to learn the language and then prepare to have the diplomatic 00:23:03.901 --> 00:23:07.141 conversation in whichever language this small island state, let's say in the 00:23:07.141 --> 00:23:09.066 Pacific, wanted to have the conversation. 00:23:09.472 --> 00:23:14.371 And then you can create connections that in the past would have been limited 00:23:14.371 --> 00:23:17.631 because this small island delegation would have said, if I'm going to be negotiating 00:23:17.631 --> 00:23:21.383 this at the UN, we need to focus on the US and other nations in Europe, 00:23:22.022 --> 00:23:24.791 not with Türkiye because we don't even have time to study. 00:23:25.098 --> 00:23:32.131 And so my sense is, what I'm trying to convey is, again, choose to see what is 00:23:32.131 --> 00:23:36.341 surrounding us that promises better opportunities to make connections that in 00:23:36.341 --> 00:23:37.515 the past couldn't have happened. 00:23:37.916 --> 00:23:42.519 But your example about using the AI also has another side. 00:23:43.187 --> 00:23:46.977 Because again, if I want to learn about a certain nation 00:23:47.691 --> 00:23:55.296 and make an effort, let's say, to go talk to the people themselves or the experience or my own 00:23:55.778 --> 00:24:00.729 filters that comes in, it's very different than just learning through AI, 00:24:01.043 --> 00:24:05.942 which could be also limiting in term of what it's giving me. 00:24:06.151 --> 00:24:06.641 Absolutely. 00:24:06.851 --> 00:24:10.211 Right? So again, are we paying attention to that? Because again, 00:24:10.211 --> 00:24:16.041 in your type of work with diplomacy and all that, I think that's very sensitive 00:24:16.041 --> 00:24:19.881 or to take care at least that this is covered. 00:24:19.881 --> 00:24:22.909 Because this would be the second sequence of what I'm presenting, that is, 00:24:23.269 --> 00:24:28.311 will you be able, through the tools, to prepare more thoughtfully for that conversation, 00:24:28.791 --> 00:24:30.884 right. It was, the example I shared is, 00:24:32.150 --> 00:24:36.759 what happens preceding that conversation, a conversation that wouldn't have 00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:40.382 existed before because you wouldn't have the bandwidth. Now you have the bandwidth. 00:24:40.723 --> 00:24:42.454 You have the bandwidth to arrive prepared. 00:24:42.808 --> 00:24:45.363 You have the bandwidth, as you highlight, to then, therefore, 00:24:45.821 --> 00:24:50.419 ask better questions, through the better questions to learn more, 00:24:50.894 --> 00:24:54.959 and through that process, offer also to the counterpart that now you get to 00:24:54.959 --> 00:25:00.619 meet, a different view into what you bring to the table. 00:25:00.619 --> 00:25:05.139 And therefore, if there are synergies on the merits, being able to create value, 00:25:05.139 --> 00:25:11.729 which that is the responsibility, can we create circumstances where our differences 00:25:11.729 --> 00:25:15.186 in interests and virtues allow us to expand 00:25:16.568 --> 00:25:23.865 zones of cooperation, where the prosperity that we produce is benefiting to all involved. 00:25:24.074 --> 00:25:29.008 And that is the only way to get past the level of conflicts that we see in different environments. 00:25:29.316 --> 00:25:32.189 So you think a two-day workshop can 00:25:33.008 --> 00:25:39.129 prepare two parties to sit together and have the same kind of intention, 00:25:39.129 --> 00:25:45.953 we want to

make this work, or a win-win kind of mindset, or is it a two-day? 00:25:46.179 --> 00:25:52.149 Sometimes I'm a bit skeptical about the fast-changing world we're living in, 00:25:52.149 --> 00:25:57.309 that it gives us that illusion also that we can build the knowledge, 00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:00.384 build the relationship in two days, in two seconds, in two this. 00:26:01.029 --> 00:26:05.829 And knowledge needs time to build. And when I think of negotiation, 00:26:05.829 --> 00:26:08.150 I think about it as building a relationship, 00:26:08.887 --> 00:26:14.219 building a relationship with quality, that I come with a good intention of knowing 00:26:14.219 --> 00:26:17.142 more about you, of, you know… 00:26:18.169 --> 00:26:23.841 I want certain things, certain interests, but I'm very also capable of giving 00:26:23.841 --> 00:26:27.306 you a space to express what you want on the table and so on. 00:26:27.701 --> 00:26:33.181 So I look at negotiation also as the quality of the relationship between the 00:26:33.181 --> 00:26:38.291 two and how this can contribute to the success of this negotiation. 00:26:38.291 --> 00:26:41.911 So I would differentiate that you're describing when the stakeholders are actually 00:26:42.251 --> 00:26:44.152 negotiating with one another. Yeah. 00:26:44.385 --> 00:26:48.451 Which is different from when you have either a, 00:26:49.271 --> 00:26:55.571 set of cabinet officials or an organization saying, I want to develop skills 00:26:55.931 --> 00:27:00.987 for my decision makers ahead of future negotiations that they will have. 00:27:01.144 --> 00:27:05.731 When an organization makes the decision to say, for two days, 00:27:05.731 --> 00:27:08.451 you're going to not be doing your job. 00:27:08.584 --> 00:27:11.870 You're just going to be upscaling insights. 00:27:12.654 --> 00:27:18.591 You want, you have to, those two days to make sure that it delivers for the 00:27:18.591 --> 00:27:20.084 bottom line of the organization. 00:27:21.013 --> 00:27:25.531 And it delivers for the bottom line of the person. So, any skills that you work 00:27:25.531 --> 00:27:28.745 on leadership or negotiation, they have to be such, 00:27:29.320 --> 00:27:34.921 that people are exposed to seeds that resonate with their heart and make them 00:27:34.921 --> 00:27:37.482 want to then go and express them in the world. 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.241 That is the reference point. I'm very honored to say there's not been a single 00:27:41.241 --> 00:27:44.738 organization that I’ve ever work with in my life that hasn't brought me back. 00:27:45.655 --> 00:27:49.939 And I take that with a big honor. And for me, the message behind that is, 00:27:51.100 --> 00:27:59.099 I've always taken an interaction as you're being invited into a family gathering and you want to 00:28:01.137 --> 00:28:06.978 communicate very clearly that you accept the blessing and that you come here 00:28:06.978 --> 00:28:11.486 hoping to unlock, in everybody there, 00:28:13.338

--> 00:28:19.978 what they perhaps knew about themselves but were fearful to take on. 00:28:19.978 --> 00:28:22.103 And so you're trying to take out some cobwebs. 00:28:22.353 --> 00:28:27.508 You're trying to help them recognize this or that blind spot is easy to get 00:28:27.508 --> 00:28:28.831 rid of once you choose so. 00:28:29.139 --> 00:28:33.940 And so you're being a mirror for the stakeholders. They are the center of the story. 00:28:34.474 --> 00:28:39.638 And the pedagogy is supposed to do what the Latin word of education, 00:28:39.638 --> 00:28:42.058 educo, which means draw from within. 00:28:42.418 --> 00:28:48.068 I still remember to this day an amazing MIT student. And I'll choose, because 00:28:48.068 --> 00:28:49.358 of the confidentiality agreements, 00:28:49.561 --> 00:28:53.138 I won't pick many of the executives around the planet, given all the mergers 00:28:53.138 --> 00:28:57.888 and acquisitions they've been part of. But I'll choose an example to celebrate 00:28:57.888 --> 00:28:58.791 about the United States. 00:28:59.898 --> 00:29:04.808 An engineer student of mine at MIT once very lovingly sent me an email where 00:29:04.808 --> 00:29:10.088 she was sharing wonderful elements about an update on her personal life, 00:29:10.088 --> 00:29:11.809 who she was going to be marrying and so on. 00:29:12.877 --> 00:29:19.047 And as a side note, she was highlighting how grateful she felt for the $800 00:29:19.047 --> 00:29:24.447 million that she had saved for the American taxpayer as a member of the Department 00:29:24.447 --> 00:29:26.327 of Energy in a set of negotiations. 00:29:26.327 --> 00:29:31.384 And she was in her, she had not been even in her 30s when she achieved this. 00:29:32.121 --> 00:29:36.550 That's credit to her. It is credit to her and our pedagogy, our job, 00:29:36.736 --> 00:29:40.437 certainly at MIT, everywhere in the world is to make sure that this talent is 00:29:40.437 --> 00:29:46.737 empowered with the tools, when the moment comes, to deliver critically for a larger community. 00:29:46.737 --> 00:29:52.218 So for me, the joy is to be with souls and make sure that those get the talent and the tools to thrive. 00:29:52.485 --> 00:29:56.547 See, that care that you're talking about, I could feel it. I could feel that 00:29:56.547 --> 00:30:01.243 energy when you're talking with this. And I think this is what we need in the world, right? 00:30:01.702 --> 00:30:07.047 Because again, when you were talking about success and wellness and the life 00:30:07.047 --> 00:30:12.247 we're living in, I think, I don't know, we are in a phase, I feel, 00:30:12.247 --> 00:30:16.383 where we need to redefine so many things in our lives. 00:30:16.696 --> 00:30:20.556 And one of them is success and what success means. 00:30:20.835 --> 00:30:25.707 Because I feel when your face lit up and I could feel that energy, 00:30:25.707 --> 00:30:27.307 this is part of your success. 00:30:27.907 --> 00:30:32.327 You know what I'm saying? It doesn't have to always be a physical, 00:30:32.327 --> 00:30:37.304 visible kind of materialistic kind of reward or recognition. 00:30:37.925 --> 00:30:42.927 That kind of energy that you're feeling by itself is success, right? 00:30:42.927 --> 00:30:47.717 Well, absolutely. And it's a success credit to the energy that we can channel 00:30:47.717 --> 00:30:51.903 with one another because you, in education, you won't be present, 00:30:53.122 --> 00:30:58.491 … when people make decisions. So, the story is them, not you. 00:30:58.758 --> 00:31:03.377 The story is the ideas and how they take on the ideas and they carry them. 00:31:03.377 --> 00:31:06.647 So you're an ambassador for ideas, you're ambassador for multiple authors, 00:31:06.647 --> 00:31:11.737 you're ambassador for different fields, and you enjoy the learning process live 00:31:11.737 --> 00:31:15.557 and afterwards how they, each soul chooses to adapt what they do. 00:31:15.557 --> 00:31:19.807 And you'll notice that I speak about soul frequently, and there may be other 00:31:19.807 --> 00:31:22.947 people who wouldn’t use that word, but I think that it's at the heart, 00:31:22.947 --> 00:31:26.117 that if you're going to be negotiating and defining what you stand for, 00:31:26.117 --> 00:31:27.928 then your whole being needs to be part of it. 00:31:28.224 --> 00:31:32.637 And so the bare minimum is then to be fully authentic as you're in that journey 00:31:32.637 --> 00:31:36.477 and to help people across different layers. 00:31:36.477 --> 00:31:39.647 And I celebrate certainly when I've had the opportunity to work with CEOs and 00:31:39.647 --> 00:31:44.031 so on, it's not because I've been in more specific negotiations in the realm they're part of. 00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:49.151 So, if I'm being brought in to the table, it's because there's an opportunity to, 00:31:50.533 --> 00:31:55.554 present a mirror or present a situation that they'll be able to approach suddenly 00:31:55.769 --> 00:31:58.838 and recognize something in themselves that they had not seen before. 00:31:59.291 --> 00:32:03.454 And so, therefore, I take that with a lot of humility because that is a little 00:32:03.454 --> 00:32:04.684 bit of a magical outcome. 00:32:04.899 --> 00:32:11.404 I think what you said about how the message is transmitted to your students, 00:32:11.404 --> 00:32:18.664 to your executives and all that, but again, part of that message is how do they illuminate that. 00:32:18.664 --> 00:32:24.574 And maybe this was the start of this conversation when I talked about is maybe 00:32:24.574 --> 00:32:31.474 we need to go now beyond fragmentation, beyond only self within self. 00:32:31.474 --> 00:32:35.468 Self is part of a web of life around. 00:32:35.932 --> 00:32:45.917 And maybe looking at ourselves as a tiny bit of this web of life can redefine how we live, 00:32:46.677 --> 00:32:55.034 how we come together, and how our souls can be that connection and not fragment, 00:32:56.294 -->

00:33:02.254 and look at differences like we talked about, as a source of creation, 00:33:02.254 --> 00:33:03.924 not a source of separation. 00:33:03.924 --> 00:33:11.359 It's so beautiful what you say, and it's so true. You're talking about trust, trust in others. 00:33:11.475 --> 00:33:20.874 Yes. So, you know, in pedagogy, you're not here to give people, here’s step A to D, and then from D to Z. 00:33:21.761 --> 00:33:27.206 Rather, you're trying to say, here are different avenues you could pursue. 00:33:27.897 --> 00:33:32.971 And you'll render them your own, with your own choices, and values, and insights. 00:33:33.528 --> 00:33:39.101 And I trust you to do so. And you have trusted me with your time, 00:33:40.453 --> 00:33:46.221 to create this exposure, and so I'm going to reciprocate trusting that the very 00:33:46.221 --> 00:33:54.528 best in you is going to take this, and run beyond what we thought, and so … it's the opposite of control, 00:33:57.390 --> 00:34:01.821 and that comes from trusting that we're part of a larger web that has a wisdom 00:34:01.821 --> 00:34:06.219 to it, if you just sit down, and listen or look for it. 00:34:06.707 --> 00:34:11.903 That wisdom is there, and it is deeply apparent the more science advances. 00:34:12.303 --> 00:34:14.869 But we have to make the choice to believe in it. 00:34:15.612 --> 00:34:20.372 It requires belief. And then combined with the trust, then you get to the beautiful 00:34:20.610 --> 00:34:21.661 message that you've expressed. 00:34:21.661 --> 00:34:28.940 And I think what you're saying even about trust is also about changing our way of thinking. 00:34:29.602 --> 00:34:36.341 And to change our way of thinking is to be exposed to the latest in science, 00:34:36.341 --> 00:34:38.106 let's say quantum physics. 00:34:38.402 --> 00:34:43.361 And that really came, you know, against kind of what we believed for so 00:34:43.361 --> 00:34:46.338 long, which is Newton's, right, physics. 00:34:46.738 --> 00:34:53.241 And when you combine even the science that proves that, with the philosophies, 00:34:53.581 --> 00:34:58.161 and again, art and science, philosophy and science, spirituality and science, 00:34:58.539 --> 00:34:59.798 they're not fragmented. 00:35:00.356 --> 00:35:04.709 And when you talk about mind, heart, soul, all that, 00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:11.315 again, it's not fragmented. We fragment to learn. And now we are in a world 00:35:11.548 --> 00:35:13.481 that is non-linear. We can see. 00:35:13.899 --> 00:35:19.912 We can see it in the poly-crisis we're having. So, if we keep thinking of climate 00:35:19.912 --> 00:35:28.342 change as a problem that we just target as climate change or any other challenge in 00:35:28.762 --> 00:35:32.469 the crazy world we're living in right now as a separate thing, 00:35:32.660 --> 00:35:37.732 a separate issue, a separate problem, and then we focus again very linearly on it. 00:35:37.732 --> 00:35:40.323 This is why we are where we are. 00:35:40.886 --> 00:35:46.442 We can't find a solution because the solution is not linear. 00:35:46.822 --> 00:35:49.852 Yes, solutions can't occur in isolation. Yes. 00:35:49.852 --> 00:35:55.342 The more we become aware of the complexity of the different interactions, 00:35:56.042 --> 00:36:01.352 the more respect and awe we should have about the impact we can have in those 00:36:01.352 --> 00:36:03.658 interactions by the way we frame them, 00:36:04.250 --> 00:36:08.842 by the way of the virtues that we choose to use, our standards of fairness that 00:36:08.842 --> 00:36:13.512 we use to discuss those situations, by the stakeholders that we invite as part 00:36:13.512 --> 00:36:15.912 of the discussion, the conversation, 00:36:16.301 --> 00:36:19.682 the insight to try to look at situations from different angles. 00:36:19.682 --> 00:36:24.772 And this is something that spiritual traditions have told us since we were forever. 00:36:24.772 --> 00:36:30.175 I remember being a teenager and being fascinated by very different Sufi masters, 00:36:30.721 --> 00:36:35.502 and being raised as a Catholic and loving my tradition and the blessings and 00:36:35.502 --> 00:36:39.486 the teachings of Jesus, that joy of the wisdom, 00:36:40.602 --> 00:36:45.412 in Sufism and the different sheikhs and masters that were across history through 00:36:45.412 --> 00:36:48.576 their poetry expressing a connection with the divine … 00:36:49.841 --> 00:36:53.352 years later when I've done work in Japan or when I work stakeholders and I've 00:36:53.352 --> 00:36:55.704 met with Buddhist masters and so on …  00:36:57.580 --> 00:37:04.303 The tenets, the colors, the traditions, the behaviors might be different. 00:37:04.303 --> 00:37:05.543 They are meant to be different. 00:37:06.520 --> 00:37:11.853 That's richness. Yeah. But there's a wisdom that resonates and that creates 00:37:11.853 --> 00:37:18.413 bridges that we can choose to walk on and appreciate, because not a single way 00:37:18.413 --> 00:37:21.490 to go about it has all the answers. 00:37:22.140 --> 00:37:27.193 And that will also make us much more robust in being proud of things that in 00:37:27.193 --> 00:37:32.136 our political or economic systems are right, it will allow us to defend that, protect that, 00:37:32.717 --> 00:37:38.083 and will give us the peace when we make a critique or an observation, to start 00:37:38.083 --> 00:37:42.123 with our own, and say, here's where we're falling short of our legacy or our 00:37:42.123 --> 00:37:43.636 heritage or our insights, 00:37:44.785 --> 00:37:46.196 and that's why we're having problems. 00:37:46.362 --> 00:37:53.944 And I feel also that we are used to always need to have answers. 00:37:54.448 --> 00:37:59.983 And sometimes that's not the case. It's not about having the answers all the time. 00:38:00.403 --> 00:38:07.243 It's like we say, having the right questions sometimes, and the answers will emerge somehow. Right? 00:38:07.243 --> 00:38:10.313

Laila, I have to stop you because you've never done a training on negotiation 00:38:10.313 --> 00:38:11.983 with me, but that is at the heart of it. 00:38:11.983 --> 00:38:17.253 That's the point. If you know what is the outcome of a negotiation before you've 00:38:17.253 --> 00:38:20.473 engaged with it, then it's not a negotiation, because it means that you just 00:38:20.473 --> 00:38:22.563 want to impose an outcome on somebody else. 00:38:22.943 --> 00:38:25.313 And if I can impose an outcome on somebody else... 00:38:26.580 --> 00:38:30.099 Then that's what it is, what the word says. I'm imposing an outcome because 00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:34.591 I have the political, economic, financial, whatever power. And negotiation is a co-created outcome. 00:38:35.113 --> 00:38:38.769 But if it's to be co-created, I cannot know what the co-creation is going to 00:38:38.769 --> 00:38:41.975 be before I engage with it. And as you said, it takes time. 00:38:42.259 --> 00:38:46.479 And then through that interaction, I may be transformed, probably, 00:38:46.479 --> 00:38:50.469 certainly, because by the exchange of information, I will see my situation, 00:38:50.469 --> 00:38:51.539 their situation differently. 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:56.479 And new solutions could emerge, solutions that meet what I want even before, 00:38:57.153 --> 00:38:58.232 even better than I thought. 00:38:58.749 --> 00:39:03.449 But if I'm so certain that I'm the one who's right, then I cannot produce this 00:39:03.449 --> 00:39:05.756 outcome. So, it's a mindset dynamic. So, you're right. 00:39:05.999 --> 00:39:08.919 And this is funny because when you said I have never, you know, 00:39:08.919 --> 00:39:11.566 came into negotiation, but I'm a parent. 00:39:12.083 --> 00:39:18.979 And that's a big, big learning space, training space because again it's a parenting style 00:39:19.455 --> 00:39:25.639 of command control or, no, we can negotiate this, we can create that space where 00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:30.891 I can hear you, you can hear me, I respect you, you respect me, no matter how old are you, 00:39:31.321 --> 00:39:35.338 you know, and creating that space would allow them even 00:39:36.278 --> 00:39:40.774 to develop in different ways. And it's funny when we talk about leadership, 00:39:40.774 --> 00:39:47.044 negotiations, we always think of nations and so, and if you bring them back 00:39:47.044 --> 00:39:50.180 to the simplest one-to-one, 00:39:50.844 --> 00:39:56.624 human-to-human, parent-to-child, spouse with their partner, I see all these 00:39:56.624 --> 00:40:01.116 dynamics as useful in our daily lives, you know. 00:40:01.424 --> 00:40:09.052 And I think it goes back, again, to that knowing system that we create for ourselves. 00:40:09.458 --> 00:40:16.334 And I say knowing system because really, really, I believe it's time to look 00:40:16.334 --> 00:40:22.995 at information, knowledge, wisdom as a system and a living system. 00:40:23.274 --> 00:40:27.843 So that's the difference. When you look at, not information, not that it's a thing. 00:40:28.191 --> 00:40:29.961 Knowledge is not a certificate. 00:40:30.722 --> 00:40:34.402 Wisdom is not something that comes with age and only ancient. 00:40:34.826 --> 00:40:43.213 If you can train people to become wiser, but we never think of wise as, again, fragmented. 00:40:43.753 --> 00:40:45.930 It is intelligently wise. 00:40:46.946 --> 00:40:51.148 Because if you're wise with no intelligence or you're intelligence with no wisdom, 00:40:51.328 --> 00:40:56.494 you can see the results all over, right, so it's about building that knowledge, 00:40:56.494 --> 00:41:00.239 knowing system ,that manifests into your being and doing, 00:41:00.930 --> 00:41:02.393 wow then bingo! 00:41:02.515 --> 00:41:06.374 Right? And you're right saying that it starts … for those who are fortunate 00:41:06.374 --> 00:41:11.524 to be able to start that journey of learning at home, by the tenets that 00:41:11.524 --> 00:41:15.326 are established in that environment, then by the tenets that we establish  00:41:16.476 --> 00:41:20.484 at school, across paths, I was blessed to be educated as a 00:41:20.804 --> 00:41:23.134 young child in a Montessori system. 00:41:23.134 --> 00:41:26.257 And so I, to experience that … 00:41:27.865 --> 00:41:31.429 freedom of relationship with knowledge, where you move at a pace with that knowledge, 00:41:31.783 --> 00:41:35.298 that each person in the room moves at their own pace. 00:41:35.298 --> 00:41:39.810 That's respect. And that's respect to the choice of the themes you want to explore, 00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:41.858 and the sequence in which we want to explore. 00:41:41.858 --> 00:41:46.798 And that respect then, I've then manifested it in the work I do around the world. 00:41:46.798 --> 00:41:52.489 And so, and it begins with the examples that you subconsciously experience very young. Yes. 00:41:52.872 --> 00:41:56.146 And so we can change in any domain, 00:41:57.411 --> 00:42:02.863 our future, by also how we approach those relationships at home reminding us, 00:42:02.863 --> 00:42:07.393 ourselves, that yes and I'm not yet blessed but God willing one day with my wife 00:42:07.393 --> 00:42:08.818 we'll have our family of our own. 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:10.463 And you'll do the negotiation 00:42:10.463 --> 00:42:14.643 part! And I know, I know from seeing wonderful young children that they're fantastic 00:42:14.643 --> 00:42:19.743 negotiators because they're always asking you why, yeah, they'll say no and authentically 00:42:19.743 --> 00:42:24.173 convey no, and they'll need to be persuaded on the merits, yeah, and so we don't have to … 00:42:24.933 --> 00:42:29.893 we’ve got to maintain that innocence, and that curiosity, and that confidence that 00:42:30.413 --> 00:42:36.618 persuasion ought to be earned and be anchored on something that is compelling. 00:42:37.065 --> 00:42:40.907 I really need to thank my parents because since I was a child,

00:42:41.184 --> 00:42:44.580 I was always that kid to say why, convince me. 00:42:44.882 --> 00:42:48.083 And my mom always remembered that, you know, the word convince me. 00:42:48.083 --> 00:42:49.474 Why are you telling me to do this? 00:42:49.735 --> 00:42:54.363 So it's nice to have that, like you said, and see the ripple effect that it 00:42:54.363 --> 00:42:56.811 has in your life in so, so many ways. 00:42:57.787 --> 00:43:03.250 I would like to end this conversation with a scenario. Let's imagine something. 00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:11.064 If you are now responsible for negotiating an AI deal around the world, 00:43:11.411 --> 00:43:15.579 I know winning together was about natural resource, water. 00:43:16.398 --> 00:43:27.288 But now, if we think about negotiating how we need to hold on AI's superintelligence, 00:43:27.717 --> 00:43:31.303 and I'm saying that I know the good side of AI. 00:43:31.303 --> 00:43:38.171 I know all the benefits, but also as you've heard with the other side of AI and especially 00:43:38.914 --> 00:43:45.973 the unknown and what can emerge out of something like a black box that everyone 00:43:45.973 --> 00:43:49.984 thinks is under control, but we don't know what's going to happen. 00:43:50.379 --> 00:43:58.070 So, if you were the head of a negotiation team that would bring different parties to the 00:44:00.328 --> 00:44:05.495 What would your strategy be? What would your method be? 00:44:05.866 --> 00:44:09.838 And I know I'm giving you such... But again, it's something to think about. 00:44:09.838 --> 00:44:15.288 It's a fantastic way to end, Laila. I'll say, first of all, like they do it on the movies, 00:44:16.002 --> 00:44:21.408 that I can neither confirm nor deny that the scenario that you describe may 00:44:21.408 --> 00:44:27.018 be actually very realistic, and may actually, I might not be able to describe, 00:44:27.018 --> 00:44:29.748 given confidentiality agreements, 00:44:31.318 --> 00:44:34.358 the top organizations I’m working with in that specific dynamic. 00:44:34.358 --> 00:44:35.116 Okay. 00:44:35.894 --> 00:44:42.088 So let me see what I could share. And what I see is there's stakeholders in 00:44:42.088 --> 00:44:45.327 the corporate sector at the C-Suite level, 00:44:47.185 --> 00:44:54.749 who've brought to their organizations incredibly talented young minds to think about the pedagogy, 00:44:56.345 --> 00:45:05.813 that the corporate decision makers, and the government stakeholders, and the civil society brokers, 00:45:06.806 --> 00:45:13.621 need to practice to navigate one word that you presented here, which is the unknown. 00:45:14.277 --> 00:45:20.628 So with the advent of AI and the pace of evolution that experts suggest we will 00:45:20.628 --> 00:45:24.726 see from RSI, Recursive Self-Improvement …  00:45:29.741 --> 00:45:33.780 the speed at which opportunities and crises might come, 00:45:36.323 --> 00:45:42.424 might indeed surpass the current structures of decision-making, 00:45:44.938 --> 00:45:51.857 let alone on regulatory dynamics, but on even just emergency management that we could have. 00:45:53.070 --> 00:46:07.188 And so what we can do, is create tabletops, create training scenarios where people can openly, practice, 00:46:09.009 --> 00:46:14.439 what or how large is the gulf between what they think they should do, and when 00:46:14.439 --> 00:46:16.488 they actually are confronted with the challenge, 00:46:17.016 --> 00:46:18.899 how do they resolve it or try to attack it … 00:46:18.899 --> 00:46:24.339 And then measure, once you come up with a solution, what are the unintended 00:46:24.339 --> 00:46:26.821 consequences. So, my sense is that, 00:46:29.746 --> 00:46:36.269 there's a lot of brilliant minds who want to channel these technologies in such 00:46:36.269 --> 00:46:41.610 a way that they produce the prosperity, 00:46:44.548 --> 00:46:53.917 that they seek, and that there's efforts for that pedagogy to be a touchstone of discovery, 00:46:54.677 --> 00:47:02.224 to render the management, and the policies, and the structures that generate policy 00:47:02.433 --> 00:47:05.568 between the public and the private sector, more robust. 00:47:05.904 --> 00:47:12.669 And what I can say is, my sense is that the decision makers that I've been exposed 00:47:12.669 --> 00:47:16.893 to, which is not all the organizations, but many that make important decisions, 00:47:18.252 --> 00:47:22.240 is not constrained to thinking about just a specific nation. 00:47:22.535 --> 00:47:24.469 They're thinking globally. 00:47:25.043 --> 00:47:31.809 In this quite interesting challenge between competition and collaboration with 00:47:31.809 --> 00:47:37.394 competing interests politically and economically and competing different systems. And so... 00:47:40.291 --> 00:47:45.221 it's TBD in the sense that human beings will need to make choices when confronted 00:47:45.221 --> 00:47:46.583 with these transformations. 00:47:47.187 --> 00:47:52.561 And all we can choose, rather, one thing we can choose to do or contribute to from this 00:47:52.561 --> 00:47:54.171 sphere in which I have expertise, 00:47:56.702 --> 00:48:03.296 is trust the decision makers and certainly trust the people that they've hired, 00:48:04.051 --> 00:48:08.480 who have the wisdom of the technologies to develop the skills, 00:48:09.368 --> 00:48:12.433 to get to solutions that they may not know now, 00:48:13.757 --> 00:48:17.951 but they could produce in the future through the practice of anticipating what 00:48:17.951 --> 00:48:18.871 might be coming their way. 00:48:19.202 --> 00:48:26.191 What you said through the last hour was the composition or the decomposition 00:48:26.191 --> 00:48:29.041 that you have inside you of 00:48:29.812 --> 00:48:35.101 openness, of willing to change, of win-win, 00:48:35.661 --> 00:48:37.208 not zero-sum. 00:48:37.562 --> 00:48:42.844 So there's so many pieces that I see here that, 00:48:43.668 --> 00:48:50.008 and this is

kind of my perspective about all this, is if you target these pieces, 00:48:50.821 --> 00:48:55.381 which we were talking about, the values, you know, looking at the big picture, 00:48:55.381 --> 00:48:59.504 it's the globe, we're all in this together, you know, all that, 00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:02.181 then collaboration may emerge 00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:06.321 organically because you have targeted all these different pieces. 00:49:06.321 --> 00:49:08.781 Yes, I mean, we can’t control... 00:49:10.348 --> 00:49:11.160 the unknown. 00:49:11.160 --> 00:49:11.695 Yes. 00:49:11.858 --> 00:49:16.910 Even if we may have been behind the creation of that unknown and aware that 00:49:16.910 --> 00:49:18.284 that unknown is coming our way, 00:49:19.172 --> 00:49:23.949 but we have an opportunity to prepare ourselves to relate with that unknown, 00:49:24.402 --> 00:49:29.810 proactively with the knowns that we have now to create structures of discussion, 00:49:29.810 --> 00:49:31.889 collaboration, insight, research, 00:49:32.493 --> 00:49:39.280 execution, investment, that make it more likely that when we're confronted with 00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.550 the challenges, we have the right people in the room, the right insights in 00:49:43.550 --> 00:49:45.570 the room, and the right virtues in the room. 00:49:45.890 --> 00:49:51.127 And that is what I feel when I see the great souls that I work with. 00:49:51.406 --> 00:49:53.461 That's their commitment. That's their mission. 00:49:53.902 --> 00:49:57.640 And I'll choose that, than despair. 00:49:57.797 --> 00:50:03.000 And I like that because I think also what you're saying is we don't want people 00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:04.583 who are ignorant in the room. 00:50:05.930 --> 00:50:14.422 We want people who are capable, who have the wise intelligence in the room to 00:50:15.183 --> 00:50:17.557 take the right decisions when things happen. 00:50:17.714 --> 00:50:22.720 Yes, and why your work and your research and your life mission in these most 00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:29.323 recent years embodies is believing that any person is amenable to achieve that 00:50:29.717 --> 00:50:32.173 if exposed to the right pastures, 00:50:32.930 --> 00:50:35.100 if given the right opportunities. 00:50:35.100 --> 00:50:41.786 And so it's our capacity to produce those synergies that makes it more likely 00:50:42.175 --> 00:50:43.522 that we will go in the right direction. 00:50:43.707 --> 00:50:49.849 We know there will always be human beings who make choices in a confrontational dynamic. 00:50:51.277 --> 00:50:56.343 The best way to defeat those choices is to have a larger group of souls that 00:50:56.343 --> 00:51:01.473 have the intelligence, the power, the resources, and the capacity to produce 00:51:01.473 --> 00:51:04.853 that prosperity in a way that uplifts rather than destroys. 00:51:04.853 --> 00:51:10.803 Exactly. Exactly. Any other question you want to ask? I'll leave that floor to you now. 00:51:10.803 --> 00:51:16.513 I've just been delighted by the time we shared together a wide-ranging conversation, 00:51:16.513 --> 00:51:21.533 organic as it's meant to be, honored by the opportunity to learn from the work 00:51:21.533 --> 00:51:25.379 that you do from the very first time that I was able to read your book. 00:51:25.867 --> 00:51:30.516 I'm very happy, looking forward to being able to be in different environments with you again. 00:51:30.742 --> 00:51:37.483 Thank you so much. I think what really kind of made me think is how aligned 00:51:37.483 --> 00:51:40.603 we could be when it's crazy. 00:51:40.603 --> 00:51:43.753 We come from different disciplines, different parts of the world, 00:51:43.753 --> 00:51:49.155 but still that alignment that can really kind of click is just amazing. 00:51:49.376 --> 00:51:53.983 And that's what we're looking for in connecting with other people around the world. 00:51:53.983 --> 00:51:56.833 Absolutely. Credit to the Lord. Inshallah. 00:51:56.833 --> 00:51:59.587 Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.