TECHNOCRATS! Silicon Valley RUN ELITES.EXE Jay Dyer & Pavel Schelin의 전체 녹취록

And he is sort of 69 00:04:28.610 --> 00:04:34.769 the archetype, the preeminent example of a Fabian socialist technocrat. 70 00:04:35.670 --> 00:04:39.110 So Wells' fiction, I think, is a huge role in 71 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:42.879 expanding this on a mass scale. But these were people 72 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:46.139 that were kind of fringe socialists in the 1920s, people 73 00:04:46.180 --> 00:04:50.000 in Canada like... Elon Musk's grandfather, right? Why are we 74 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.560 talking about it today? Stuff like this story. But it 75 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:55.639 wasn't really a big movement at the time. That's just 76 00:04:55.689 --> 00:04:58.370 kind of where it found its origins. But I think 77 00:04:58.410 --> 00:05:04.689 over time, from 1920, say, about 50 years later to 1970, 78 00:05:04.689 --> 00:05:08.170 by the time of the 1970s, you have, you know, 79 00:05:08.569 --> 00:05:12.589 big deep state players, Big New Brzezinski, writing his book 80 00:05:12.629 --> 00:05:16.000 Between Two Ages in, I think, 1972 or three. And 81 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:19.300 it's about the technocratic or technotronic era, he says. That's 82 00:05:19.339 --> 00:05:22.420 the subtitle of the book. So he's writing and saying, okay, 83 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.500 this is actually the future that we're going into, whether 84 00:05:24.550 --> 00:05:26.750 we like it or not. We are between the age 85 00:05:27.029 --> 00:05:30.269 of prior to technocracy and post-technocracy when we'll have this 86 00:05:30.990 --> 00:05:34.629 next phase. And of course, a lot of technologists and futurists, 87 00:05:34.649 --> 00:05:39.050 they believe that it's essentially, the growth is rapid and 88 00:05:39.089 --> 00:05:42.939 sort of compounds over time. So they would project that, well, 89 00:05:43.220 --> 00:05:48.490 by 2030, 2050, 2070, be even more advanced and a 90 00:05:48.550 --> 00:05:51.939 quicker scale than it has been. So you could see 91 00:05:51.949 --> 00:05:55.000 all the assumptions that underlie technocracy, but essentially by the 92 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:58.839 1960s and 70s, the power elite in the West, the 93 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:02.939 Atlantuses had, I think, completely adopted this perspective. And it 94 00:06:02.980 --> 00:06:06.519 was people like Brzezinski that were spotted when he was 95 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:09.470 at university. I think he taught at McGill University in Canada. 96 00:06:10.089 --> 00:06:14.350 And you had Kissinger essentially spotted him and said, We 97 00:06:14.370 --> 00:06:17.620 need to bring him in to the steering committees. And 98 00:06:17.629 --> 00:06:19.879 so he went to David Rockefeller and said, you should 99 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.040 create an entire committee just for that guy. And so 100 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:24.160 that's where we get the Trilateral Commission. It was created 101 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:28.759 by Kissinger and Rockefeller just for Brzezinski to run. And 102

00:06:28.779 --> 00:06:30.879 then later on, we would see people like Jeffrey Epstein, 103 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:36.439 also a technocrat who ended up steering the Trilateral Commission 104 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:42.120 under Rockefeller. So this was the adopted movement. And I 105 00:06:42.259 --> 00:06:46.329 think they just saw it as by the wealthy oligarchs 106 00:06:46.389 --> 00:06:49.389 of the West. They saw it as the necessary future, 107 00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:53.310 the best option for how they would maintain control and 108 00:06:53.829 --> 00:07:00.670 to essentially build a control grid whereby everything is tracked, traced, rationed, 109 00:07:00.810 --> 00:07:08.529 surveilled under not human weakness or human vice. And I 110 00:07:08.550 --> 00:07:10.649 think this was their main selling point, the idea that 111 00:07:10.689 --> 00:07:14.910 Bertrand Russell, who was a technocrat, famously said, In the technocracy, 112 00:07:14.930 --> 00:07:18.459 you won't be subject to the whims of human passions. 113 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.199 It'll be objective because you'll be governed by algorithm. You'll 114 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:27.699 be governed by quantification versus the flaws that human nature has. 115 00:07:28.019 --> 00:07:28.759 That's the selling point. 116 00:07:28.779 --> 00:07:33.579 Let's pause it here a little bit because you mentioned before, 117 00:07:34.339 --> 00:07:38.089 I would say for our average listener, this story sounds 118 00:07:38.769 --> 00:07:42.519 a little bit similar to what we talked about Baconist 119 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:45.699 and like new Atlantis is because ultimately we're still talking 120 00:07:45.779 --> 00:07:48.660 about knowledge and wisdom and why we are devoting a 121 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:52.360 special time and why we're talking about technocracy as a separate, 122 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:56.339 let's say, tribe or separate demon tribe within the story. 123 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:58.939 And I think you right now pointed in a very 124 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:05.509 key difference because originally for this whole, you can call 125 00:08:05.550 --> 00:08:11.000 them scientists, like scientists and progressivism, esoterical knowledge of, let's say, 126 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:17.000 exactly New Atlantis and New Bethlehem and all of these images, 127 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:22.139 they still were very much human. It was mystical, and 128 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.670 this mystical story needed a priest, which still would be 129 00:08:26.689 --> 00:08:34.009 a human priest. And all structure within this classical, let's say, 130 00:08:34.070 --> 00:08:37.809 classical esoterical approach is still... It's knowledge, but there is 131 00:08:37.830 --> 00:08:40.620 a transmitter of knowledge, and this transmitter is a human transmitter. 132 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:44.539 I think what makes technocracy quite unique in its long run, 133 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:49.879 it's promise of dehumanization as a virtue. 134 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:50.480 Exactly. 135 00:08:50.539 --> 00:08:54.460 And that's a new, quite radical idea, which exactly, you 136 00:08:55.059 --> 00:08:57.799 can say that, well, but spiritually and symbolically, it doesn't 137 00:08:57.860 --> 00:09:01.000 like all other Gnostic traditions talk about the same process, 138 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:08.450 in a way, but concise, upfront, and... almost put in 139 00:09:08.470 --> 00:09:13.389 the forefront of the whole movement, that's exactly the technocracy. 140 00:09:13.629 --> 00:09:18.850 And I think that's why evolutionary matters here quite a lot, 141 00:09:19.789 --> 00:09:23.279 is the certain idea that machine is a better version 142 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:24.960 of a human. Would you agree? 143 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:32.279 Yeah, removing the emotion and the passion that can affect 144 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:38.389 decisions is seen as the primary solution to most of 145 00:09:38.470 --> 00:09:41.889 society's ills for example we think about drone warfare uh 146 00:09:42.549 --> 00:09:47.049 and this being done by ai nowadays that whole process 147 00:09:47.230 --> 00:09:50.169 is based on this idea of removing the human you 148 00:09:50.210 --> 00:09:52.509 know error factor from the equation that could be human 149 00:09:52.570 --> 00:09:55.529 error in regards to just making a mistake or human 150 00:09:55.570 --> 00:09:57.610 error in regards to i don't have i don't have 151 00:09:57.629 --> 00:09:59.629 the willpower to kill this person you know i have 152 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:03.139 I have moral qualms with killing this person. So, And 153 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:05.080 they would sell it this way, too. Like, you know, 154 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.500 you go back to the way that Bertrand Russell and people... Yeah, 155 00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.019 let's go back way. Trust me, not many people have 156 00:10:11.059 --> 00:10:13.519 read Bertrand Russell, so you can... Yeah, he was one 157 00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:17.100 of the first figures that we focused several lectures on some, 158 00:10:17.419 --> 00:10:19.610 let's say, 10 years ago because he wrote a couple 159 00:10:19.659 --> 00:10:22.409 really important books. He was only a member of the 160 00:10:22.429 --> 00:10:24.590 Fabian Society for a little while, but I think he 161 00:10:24.610 --> 00:10:27.570 still retained the ideas, even if he didn't keep with 162 00:10:27.769 --> 00:10:31.509 the society itself. Most of what he taught and proposed 163 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:34.929 propounded in his books is essentially the same idea and 164 00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:37.769 he says you know there's two key books here this 165 00:10:37.789 --> 00:10:42.350 would be uh uh impact of science on society and 166 00:10:42.370 --> 00:10:46.389 then uh scientific outlook and both books written between 1930 167 00:10:46.389 --> 00:10:49.889 and 1950 so about a two decade span of him 168 00:10:50.000 -->

00:10:54.820 first looking at the Bolshevik Revolution and Stalin, and then 169 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:58.090 later on reflecting on what had happened and where we 170 00:10:58.129 --> 00:11:00.870 were going in the technocracy. Two very important books. One 171 00:11:00.889 --> 00:11:03.549 of them is a little more focused on the scientific 172 00:11:03.590 --> 00:11:06.149 method and his version of scientism. The other one is 173 00:11:06.169 --> 00:11:09.379 a little more focused on future technocracy. But both books 174 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:14.360 are very insightful and contain information on both subjects. And 175 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:20.990 Russell is very clear that What you read in 1984, 176 00:11:20.980 --> 00:11:24.460 what you read in Brave New World, these are the 177 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:29.990 future plans that this society has. So when you're reading 178 00:11:29.990 --> 00:11:33.029 1984 and Brave New World, you're also reading people from 179 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:36.009 these same circles. Okay. Doesn't mean they all have the 180 00:11:36.049 --> 00:11:40.450 same perfect ideology, but you could say with, you know, 181 00:11:40.549 --> 00:11:43.169 we talked about Huxley. You know, Huxley's idea of the 182 00:11:43.220 --> 00:11:46.279 technocracy is a little more focused on enslavement through pleasure. 183 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:46.659 Yes. 184 00:11:48.049 --> 00:11:51.649 Orwells, who was also top head Fabian socialist for many decades, 185 00:11:51.690 --> 00:11:54.899 when he wrote 1984, he was saying, this is essentially 186 00:11:54.940 --> 00:11:58.240 what we think it'll be like, should we have a 187 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:02.000 top down, you know, Stalinist kind of model of a technocracy, 188 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:05.970 of a dystopia in the future. So both of them 189 00:12:06.009 --> 00:12:08.190 give insights. And all I'm saying is that when you 190 00:12:08.210 --> 00:12:13.409 read Russell, you're reading essentially the nonfiction sort of layout 191 00:12:13.590 --> 00:12:17.509 of what he thought would actually be the technocracy. And 192 00:12:17.570 --> 00:12:20.889 it's essentially, he says, Plato's Republic. He says the ideal 193 00:12:20.950 --> 00:12:25.490 society is a technocratic society with Plato's Republic removing the 194 00:12:25.529 --> 00:12:26.769 human from the equation. 195 00:12:26.970 --> 00:12:31.360 Removing the human. I think it's very key. Let me summarize, 196 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.120 and please correct me if I'm wrong. So you can 197 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.639 definitely say that in the 20th century, any, let's say, 198 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.870 power tribe became infatuated with the idea of technology one 199 00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:47.529 way or the other. Mm-hmm. And even before progress, it's 200 00:12:47.590 --> 00:12:50.789 like the inception. If we're going to talk about one 201 00:12:50.830 --> 00:12:54.389 of the arch spiritual forces playing over the course of 202 00:12:54.409 --> 00:12:57.490 the last 400 years, one of its names would be progress. 203 00:12:57.649 --> 00:13:01.289 That's the idea that the future necessarily brings more power, 204 00:13:01.330 --> 00:13:04.169 it's better than the past, and this kind of form 205 00:13:04.210 --> 00:13:11.059 of radical antitheistic optimism. However, if we were to focus technocracy, 206 00:13:12.299 --> 00:13:15.750 what makes it unique and radical, It kind of almost 207 00:13:15.850 --> 00:13:23.429 moves beyond this ideological lines. And that's where this tribe 208 00:13:23.470 --> 00:13:26.590 becomes kind of subject in itself and not just the 209 00:13:26.649 --> 00:13:30.740 serving force of other tribes because you're exactly describing beginning. 210 00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:36.460 So socialism obviously has a huge technocratic element in it. Later, 211 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:42.539 let's say, fascism has a huge technocratic element in it. Fabianism, hugely. 212 00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:48.460 Even Atlanticism of robots, like absolutely huge technocratic element in it. 213 00:13:49.330 --> 00:13:51.730 But when we talk about technocrats, we're starting to notice 214 00:13:51.750 --> 00:13:55.409 that around 30s, a tribe appears, effectively starting to appearing. 215 00:13:55.669 --> 00:13:59.129 And yes, it's ideas starting to become relevant, even what 216 00:13:59.169 --> 00:14:02.470 you read in the news, like on a super fine scale, 217 00:14:02.490 --> 00:14:05.450 like the plans to take Greenland. That was this famous 218 00:14:05.509 --> 00:14:08.409 research paper that basically America needs to take control of 219 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:12.049 the whole North America in a single technobody because it 220 00:14:12.070 --> 00:14:16.210 will provide it enough sufficient resources and their own calculations 221 00:14:16.269 --> 00:14:19.389 why it matters but that's for example why Greenland nowadays 222 00:14:19.809 --> 00:14:23.750 idea plays and like Elon Musk you can say it's 223 00:14:23.769 --> 00:14:27.809 a poster child of technocratic in many ways of technocratic 224 00:14:27.850 --> 00:14:32.210 project given the naming of children and this whole idea 225 00:14:32.230 --> 00:14:36.460 of techno-optimism of flying beyond so it becomes it slowly 226 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.889 becomes as a seed I think what it When it 227 00:14:40.070 --> 00:14:43.190 pushes other tribes to an extreme, it says, well, you're 228 00:14:43.230 --> 00:14:47.539 not going critical enough. Because in your projects, you still 229 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:52.820 have either too much of a human element or even 230 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.779 too much of a... I wouldn't call it spiritual element because... 231 00:14:56.899 --> 00:14:59.460 But you can say still even spiritual element. You're still 232 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:03.470 relying too much on this false esotericism. You're using your 233 00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:06.710 esoteric tradition, like,

you know, you go to ISIS, you 234 00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:11.610 go to... goddess of egyptian or you go to cybele 235 00:15:11.669 --> 00:15:13.870 or you go to like whatever other demon you go 236 00:15:14.009 --> 00:15:17.090 and that's what gives you power we are we want 237 00:15:17.110 --> 00:15:21.750 to go beyond we think that technology and data dataism 238 00:15:21.809 --> 00:15:26.200 becomes an important idea is a force in itself and 239 00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:29.240 truth be told it doesn't need anything it doesn't need 240 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.600 all of this other rhetoric like we think it's just 241 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.470 a rhetorical framing you're using All you need just to 242 00:15:36.529 --> 00:15:39.669 push it to the singularity point, and then there will 243 00:15:39.690 --> 00:15:43.090 be this evolutionary, let's say, leak. 244 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:46.259 Well, they say that, but at the same time. 245 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.779 Okay, I'm just trying to say how they differentiate. 246 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:51.179 That's how they sell it as, you know, we're not 247 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:56.799 like the erring socialist leaders of the past. We're going 248 00:15:56.830 --> 00:15:59.370 to fix those problems by getting rid of the human. 249 00:15:59.950 --> 00:16:01.730 And if we get rid of the human, then you'll 250 00:16:01.769 --> 00:16:06.009 have a truly... This is a key term, quantified society 251 00:16:06.049 --> 00:16:09.230 or quantification. So, for example, Russell was big on this 252 00:16:09.289 --> 00:16:11.669 point because he was a logician, a mathematician, and a 253 00:16:11.730 --> 00:16:16.049 radical materialist. And so, you know, he actually thought that 254 00:16:16.110 --> 00:16:19.610 you could literally have a totality explanation of all the 255 00:16:19.649 --> 00:16:24.629 reality through pure quantification. And even at this time, you 256 00:16:24.669 --> 00:16:29.340 had certain perennialists writing to critique that. You know, you 257 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:33.500 have René Guénon writing about quantification and which characterizes this 258 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:36.889 attitude that everything could be essentially just logged, tracked, and 259 00:16:36.909 --> 00:16:40.649 traced with a number. And you fast forward to the 260 00:16:40.669 --> 00:16:43.950 day where, you know, the idea, even in dystopian fiction, 261 00:16:43.970 --> 00:16:46.169 that everybody will have some, you know, number, some code 262 00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:51.659 that identifies them. You know, THX 1138, like Lucas's film, 263 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.580 where you have a barcode that, you know, marks you. 264 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.659 So these are, you know, examples of most of the 265 00:16:56.700 --> 00:17:00.789 dystopian fiction that you see kind of underlies what is 266 00:17:01.049 --> 00:17:04.289 supposed to be a warning about technocracy. But the idea 267 00:17:04.309 --> 00:17:08.069 of the technocrat is that we will set up a technate. 268 00:17:08.710 --> 00:17:14.009 And the technate will be essentially regional governorships or regional 269 00:17:14.250 --> 00:17:19.470 megacities that sort of bring in the outlying countryside also 270 00:17:19.750 --> 00:17:23.799 integrated into the technate. And then in some of these 271 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:27.579 more radical recent people, the idea is essentially you'll have 272 00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:32.240 a CEO king, right? And so we don't even, this 273 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:35.480 is weird because it's even kind of getting beyond the. 274 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:38.019 Pure- It took like a hundred years, like just that's 275 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:42.160 important part. So it started without this. A CEO king 276 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.210 idea for Russell would sound absurd. 277 00:17:44.509 --> 00:17:47.069 Right, because they were still, Russell was still of a 278 00:17:47.109 --> 00:17:50.049 socialist mind. But we're getting to this point where when 279 00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:52.369 you fast forward a hundred years to where we don't 280 00:17:52.430 --> 00:17:58.599 really have a successful- classical socialist revolution or idea. So 281 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.700 I think that the technocrats of today, because they came 282 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.960 out of Silicon Valley and this libertarian ethos of what 283 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.640 Silicon Valley was supposed to be, they've sort of melded 284 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:11.940 technocracy with the idea of classical liberalism to a degree. 285 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.480 But now they're transcending that because many of today's, not all, 286 00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:19.490 but many of today's technocrats would even be more akin 287 00:18:19.529 --> 00:18:23.569 to a feudal lord with a technate where they're a 288 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:24.410 CEO king. 289 00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:30.619 Exactly. And I think this weirdness makes it really hard 290 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:35.220 to trace an essential element in it. However, I still 291 00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:41.579 think it's pretty clear. It's where we begin. It's the 292 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.500 deepest possible mistrust of sovereignty. 293 00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:49.059 Ultimately, man is the problem. Yes. 294 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:51.440 I think that's absolutely the key. And then if you 295 00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:53.660 take this statement, you can see how it can become 296 00:18:54.210 --> 00:18:57.509 This idea, this spirit that man is a problem, this 297 00:18:57.569 --> 00:19:05.140 idea that we need to replace weak flesh with some... Silicon. Silicon, yes. Before, 298 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.000 we didn't know about silicon. So in the 20s, you 299 00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:09.640 don't have authors writing about silicon. It would be still 300 00:19:09.700 --> 00:19:14.200 more metal. And I think the movie Metropolis would be 301 00:19:14.390 -->

00:19:17.769 a great example of this kind of playing with this idea. 302 00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:21.970 It's like symbolism... Even the whole art deco style. 303 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:23.640 It's Promethean style of art. 304 00:19:23.859 --> 00:19:26.660 Yes, Promethean style of art. So man is a problem, 305 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:30.420 and we need to replace man with something which is 306 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.880 exactly infallible. So in many ways, like why it's still 307 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:36.500 relevant to us, it's a deeply religious philosophy. 308 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:36.720 Absolutely. 309 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:40.519 Because ultimately, it wants to address the problem of sin, 310 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.039 that man is capable of sinning. They kind of agree 311 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.140 with it. But the solution cannot be found in man. 312 00:19:47.829 --> 00:19:51.660 The solution might be found in an algorithm or in 313 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.460 a machine. Like, generally speaking, machine, you can just call it. 314 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:57.279 I think that would be great. And then with the 315 00:19:57.339 --> 00:20:01.519 changes in machines, the 20th century really made this small, 316 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.690 pretty tribe, which was absolutely irrelevant as a power group. 317 00:20:05.769 --> 00:20:09.849 It was, I would say, until... late Silicon Valley, it 318 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.390 was at best certain potential members of it would be, 319 00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:17.809 you know, not even managers, but like hands of other tribes. 320 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:21.130 That's why you would say Fabians would happily use a 321 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:25.349 good technocratic mind to do their bidding. Atlanticists would do. 322 00:20:26.869 --> 00:20:29.559 But at a certain point, and I would exactly say 323 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:35.420 like in this computer revolution, they started To accumulate more influence, 324 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:42.140 to accumulate more resources. And by the early 2010, I 325 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:47.089 would say, they realized themselves as a power group, strong enough, 326 00:20:47.450 --> 00:20:51.190 sufficient enough to enter into the big game, to enter 327 00:20:51.230 --> 00:20:54.549 into the big fray of, let's say, getting the control 328 00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:57.690 over this holem, which we discussed, I think, in episode three. 329 00:20:58.069 --> 00:21:02.539 Yeah, so a couple points. First... If there was an 330 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:07.059 underlying commonality amongst these, I think you could say, and 331 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.880 we could go back to one of their characters, Julian Huxley. 332 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:10.220 Yes. 333 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.400 Julian coins the term transhumanism. 334 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:12.579 Yes. 335 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.089 So the idea is since the human is the problem, 336 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:20.069 we

will transcend the human trend. And that means essentially 337 00:21:20.109 --> 00:21:24.849 all the limitations, not just emotion or vice or frailty 338 00:21:24.890 --> 00:21:28.690 in terms of decision making, but also the limitations of 339 00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:32.089 time and space and mortality. So the idea of the 340 00:21:32.130 --> 00:21:35.430 transhumanists that underlies essentially most of the technocrats, I think, 341 00:21:36.190 --> 00:21:37.750 you know, if you go back to the 20s, they 342 00:21:37.789 --> 00:21:42.089 probably had ideas of, like, life extension, where they will 343 00:21:42.109 --> 00:21:44.569 live longer. Maybe a technocrat. 344 00:21:44.589 --> 00:21:47.130 Creogenesis, I would imagine, something like this. 345 00:21:47.170 --> 00:21:50.700 Yeah, maybe you could live longer. Maybe somebody back then 346 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.819 had the idea of immortality. Like you mentioned, you know, 347 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:55.640 in Metropolis, you have the idea of the sex bot, 348 00:21:55.779 --> 00:21:59.119 and she becomes a sort of revolutionary force in society. 349 00:22:00.099 --> 00:22:03.980 So they have these inklings, I think, of what could be. 350 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.839 But as you said, the key point here that I 351 00:22:06.859 --> 00:22:10.779 think makes them become more and more dominant is the 352 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:16.640 computer revolution. So when you have the 1950s and 60s, mathematics, cybernetics, 353 00:22:16.779 --> 00:22:21.980 Norbert Wiener, key figures like John von Neumann, people that 354 00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:26.180 worked with the Rand Corporation, they began to develop very 355 00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:32.670 advanced mathematical techniques for computation, and that eventually gives rise to, 356 00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:34.970 you know, what we now know of as personal computer, 357 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.210 but originally it was like, you know, giant warehouses of 358 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:40.890 just little tiny, you know, um, to do, you know, 359 00:22:40.910 --> 00:22:44.230 basic functions essentially. But what's interesting about that is that, 360 00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:48.809 so in the 1960s, when Quigley wrote, uh, tragedy and hope, 361 00:22:48.849 --> 00:22:50.549 and we think about that as kind of the key 362 00:22:50.589 --> 00:22:53.190 Atlantis' text, that's what it is. It's a defense of 363 00:22:53.250 --> 00:22:59.180 the Western democratic, uh, capitalist perspective. I always highlight this 364 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.069 because people forget this. People focus on the chapters that 365 00:23:02.109 --> 00:23:04.609 talk about the banking elites, and that's very important. But 366 00:23:04.990 --> 00:23:06.990 there's a chapter right in the very middle where he 367 00:23:07.049 --> 00:23:10.490 talks about what the future will be like. People forget 368 00:23:10.549 --> 00:23:13.950 and don't realize that Quigley's a technocrat. He says in 369

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:15.880 the very middle of the book that the future will 370 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:21.519 be essentially large regions run out of megacities with the 371 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:25.599 cities themselves essentially controlled by giant AI supercomputers. So already 372 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:28.710 in the 1960s when he wrote that, He was telling 373 00:23:29.029 --> 00:23:32.730 people what the Atlanticist power block was already adopting. They 374 00:23:32.750 --> 00:23:37.670 were adopting the technocratic model. And that's why it's not 375 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:40.480 too many years later that, as I said, when Brzezinski 376 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:45.299 writes his sort of key technocratic thesis text, Between Two Ages, 377 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:51.420 the same power structure behind Quigley says, let's give that 378 00:23:51.460 --> 00:23:53.880 guy a key role in the steering committee to steer 379 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:56.990 the future. So again, this is the early 1970s. when 380 00:23:57.059 --> 00:24:01.180 it's essentially the official program, you could say. Not too 381 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.700 many years after that, when we have the Carter administration, 382 00:24:03.740 --> 00:24:08.309 you have the same key person here of Kissinger putting 383 00:24:08.349 --> 00:24:12.970 out what he called State Department Memorandum 200 and Global 2000. 384 00:24:12.970 --> 00:24:17.549 And these are key white papers and policies about supposedly 385 00:24:18.130 --> 00:24:22.940 just stopping the third world from growing in population. But 386 00:24:22.980 --> 00:24:27.029 it's also tied to because remember, this is the same 387 00:24:27.170 --> 00:24:30.509 Kissinger that's putting Brzezinski into the same steering committee role. 388 00:24:31.029 --> 00:24:33.369 I say all that to say that you can begin 389 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:38.680 to see in the 1970s the idea being implemented through 390 00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:41.599 these key big deep state players, and that's really what 391 00:24:41.619 --> 00:24:45.480 they are. And so they begin to roll out a 392 00:24:45.579 --> 00:24:51.869 technocratic version of dysgenics and population control, which supposedly we 393 00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:53.089 were done with, right? 394 00:24:53.109 --> 00:24:53.190 Yeah. 395 00:24:53.539 --> 00:24:55.940 That's all Hitler. We're not going to be with Hitler. 396 00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:58.859 We're going to be, you know, democratic freedoms. But now 397 00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:00.140 democratic freedom... We would do. 398 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:01.980 It as social control. Like, basically, you can say that 399 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:05.980 they decided that the control which was officially implemented was 400 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:10.390 a cultural, sexual revolution. That's kind of also just... I 401 00:25:10.410 --> 00:25:12.170 want just the people to taste the difference so they 402 00:25:12.190 --> 00:25:15.750 can recognize. For example, the whole 60s as a cultural movement, 403 00:25:15.789 --> 00:25:18.529 clearly not technocratic. Technocratic was not on the front run. 404 00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:21.349 It was clearly a Fabian process, and, like, it was very, like... 405 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:28.130 media culture institutions freedoms dismantling certain law system etc for 406 00:25:28.150 --> 00:25:32.940 technocrats that's almost not um serious enough and it's still 407 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.519 kind of true technocrat will say it's a child's game 408 00:25:35.579 --> 00:25:38.720 okay you can run it but ultimately you're not addressing 409 00:25:38.740 --> 00:25:41.420 the core issue right for them you need to go 410 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.140 deeper you need to go into the core. 411 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.779 And that's why the key point that i that unifies 412 00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:51.799 all these people is transhumanism. And that's why Julian Huxley, 413 00:25:51.819 --> 00:25:55.500 who coins that term, is also the one who writes 414 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.680 the philosophy of UNESCO. And if you read that book, 415 00:25:58.779 --> 00:26:03.849 The Philosophy of UNESCO, he rebrands eugenics as biometrics, which 416 00:26:03.930 --> 00:26:06.609 is another key element of transhumanism and technocracy. 417 00:26:07.309 --> 00:26:10.509 So yeah, approximately 60. So this individual people, I guess, 418 00:26:12.309 --> 00:26:16.660 starting to... But still... From the perspective of this power group, 419 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:20.839 I would say at this rate, they're still relying on 420 00:26:21.220 --> 00:26:24.039 the other, all the tribes. Because there is obviously a 421 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.450 unifying element in everything we're talking about. And we started 422 00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:29.609 with it. We will finish our series with it. All 423 00:26:29.630 --> 00:26:34.309 of these power tribes, they are rejecting holistic approach to reality. 424 00:26:34.329 --> 00:26:37.759 They are rejecting realism. They are rejecting God. They are rejecting, 425 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:40.700 I wouldn't call it nature, but God's orders and God's visions. 426 00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:42.990 Of course, they would have many things in common, and 427 00:26:43.029 --> 00:26:45.210 that's why people, well, but you just said that this 428 00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:46.799 guy is this guy, now you're saying that he is 429 00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:50.559 also this guy. Yeah, for a very individual person, there 430 00:26:50.700 --> 00:26:56.880 can easily be this kind of shifts, and just emphasis. 431 00:26:57.869 --> 00:27:04.230 It's almost, from many respects, the general transhumanist goal, one 432 00:27:04.269 --> 00:27:08.190 way or the other, is common for all of the project. Absolutely. 433 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:13.319 How you get there, that's absolutely where this disagree, argue, 434 00:27:13.339 --> 00:27:14.599 trying to prove that

point. 435 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:17.740 Let's give an example. You know, you could look at 436 00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:21.759 someone like Ayn Rand as an interesting figure in regard 437 00:27:21.799 --> 00:27:25.920 to technocracy, because on the one hand, she represents, you know, 438 00:27:26.299 --> 00:27:30.779 her objectivism, which is essentially just anarcho-capitalism. But you could 439 00:27:30.859 --> 00:27:34.440 also see in her writings, in her fiction, John Galt 440 00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:39.700 as a kind of future... Atlantean technocrat. Technicat, technate, technocrat. 441 00:27:40.099 --> 00:27:41.720 CO king. Exactly. 442 00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:43.220 He even has his kingdom. 443 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:46.160 It's a gold valley. It's a gold skulch. So it 444 00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:50.380 doesn't have to be 100% all committed to socialism because 445 00:27:50.859 --> 00:27:53.660 it can be whatever gets you to that end goal 446 00:27:54.029 --> 00:28:00.150 of essentially, you know, social Darwinism bringing the cream of 447 00:28:00.190 --> 00:28:06.339 the crop to the top, supposedly. And then essentially... limiting 448 00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:10.079 the population to control it. And we're back to feudal lords. 449 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.299 But anyway, I did want to mention, though, that when 450 00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:17.799 you talk about these unifying factors of like transcending humanity, 451 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.279 it took several decades for these sort of fringe ideas 452 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.140 to become dominant, as you said, and a key person 453 00:28:25.180 --> 00:28:27.650 to look to who I think is a good transition figure. 454 00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:32.680 is Kissinger himself, because Kissinger is recruited by Rockefeller to essentially. 455 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.759 The first tribe we talked about, the imperialist of Rhodes, 456 00:28:35.900 --> 00:28:37.940 I would say. Yes. That's kind of what he is 457 00:28:38.019 --> 00:28:43.380 mostly associated with. That's what he talks about. Streams, flows, controls, 458 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:46.269 et cetera. Like, that's where he starts. That's what most people... 459 00:28:46.069 --> 00:28:49.170 His diplomacy paper and, like, all of his work, that 460 00:28:49.210 --> 00:28:52.740 fits very well into this guy, like Cecil Rhodes... basically 461 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:55.400 a testament, which you can say that the guy's just 462 00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:56.609 been carrying the flame. 463 00:28:57.410 --> 00:28:59.809 But he was around for so long that he's also 464 00:28:59.910 --> 00:29:05.809 a transition figure, basically sort of liaisoning with the older 465 00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:10.509 oligarchical robber barons that he worked for, like David Rockefeller, 466 00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:15.200 to then kind of moving into technocracy, right? Because as 467 00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:17.880 often happens, these sort of the older generations, like the

468 00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:22.599 David Rockefellers, They kind of don't always understand everything about tech. 469 00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:25.279 And so they need the younger generation to kind of 470 00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:29.299 sort of lead the next generation into where it's going. 471 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:30.769 How are we going to use it? What does it mean? 472 00:29:30.849 --> 00:29:34.009 Exactly. And so I would say you got that banking, 473 00:29:34.730 --> 00:29:39.269 robber baron, industrialist, older model that you said fits more 474 00:29:39.309 --> 00:29:43.670 with the Atlantis. Imperial Roads model. But then it transitions 475 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:49.059 into the sort of Silicon Valley overlord model with, I think, 476 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.700 Kissinger and Brzezinski setting up that next generation. And in fact, 477 00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:56.180 in 20, I want to say 2014. His last book 478 00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:59.470 was like on... His book was on tech. Well, it's 479 00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.660 called The New World Order, or The New Order. And 480 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.539 the last chapter is about whoever will control the tech 481 00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:07.720 will run the New World Order. That's Kissinger's thesis, his 482 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.240 last book before he died. So, yeah, and Bilderberg itself, 483 00:30:11.380 --> 00:30:13.099 by the way, had essentially, I want to say around 14, 15, 484 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:17.349 because I remember writing articles about it at the time, 485 00:30:17.930 --> 00:30:22.410 they had seeded the old guard to technocrats. They basically 486 00:30:22.430 --> 00:30:25.049 just started inviting all the Silicon Valley technocrats. You had 487 00:30:25.069 --> 00:30:27.829 people that were formerly technocrats. part of DARPA, and then 488 00:30:27.890 --> 00:30:32.789 had gone to Google, now lecturing at Bilderberg about microchips 489 00:30:32.849 --> 00:30:35.930 and implants and what the future would hold. So essentially, 490 00:30:35.950 --> 00:30:42.869 the Western oligarchical power structure basically just put all of 491 00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:45.210 their cards into technocracy. 492 00:30:45.970 --> 00:30:48.089 And here, I actually would say not just Western. I 493 00:30:48.109 --> 00:30:51.829 think that's kind of why technocracy is relevant in our 494 00:30:51.849 --> 00:30:56.380 day and age. And Let's go a little bit back. Again, 495 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.539 we can find the traces of this idea. If we 496 00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:03.640 actually want to go into its deepest meaning and not 497 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.910 to be charmed or enchanted by it, I highly recommend 498 00:31:08.349 --> 00:31:12.009 the book The Road to Babylon by our common friend. 499 00:31:13.009 --> 00:31:18.029 And he basically shows how essentially you can already find 500 00:31:18.089 --> 00:31:21.720 in writings of Franciscan monks of the 12th century, like 501 00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:25.750 Roger Bacon, theses which will later be said for example 502 00:31:25.769 --> 00:31:29.230 by peter teal or by other prominent technocrats of the 503 00:31:29.250 --> 00:31:31.539 future who would effectively say we need to learn how 504 00:31:31.630 --> 00:31:35.660 to use material uh basically we will achieve salvation through 505 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:38.759 the control of a matter in the language of medieval 506 00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:41.039 time and not obviously like back then it wouldn't say 507 00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.589 like obviously salvation comes through christ but to get into 508 00:31:44.630 --> 00:31:46.950 this paradise like stake how we get we need to 509 00:31:47.450 --> 00:31:51.369 you know labor we need to the nature we need 510 00:31:51.410 --> 00:31:54.170 to change the environment we need to get this knowledge 511 00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:57.509 and and then he shows how different then you get 512 00:31:57.549 --> 00:32:01.980 into the alchemical tradition yeah transhumanism in its alchemical form 513 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.079 all in all so it's always been there elements of 514 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.759 this spirit has always been there however the spirit never 515 00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:12.119 had a chance let's say to compete with bigger guys 516 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:16.789 like good old-fashioned classical greed good old-fashioned classical anger or 517 00:32:16.869 --> 00:32:21.559 power or not even power but um let's say old 518 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:26.660 Bao or let's say Maimon were absolutely keeping these guys 519 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.519 there like running boy like this kind of tech always 520 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.839 been there but it's been a running boy that's how 521 00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:36.619 I would say been until very recently yeah what I 522 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:40.240 think changes happen and I think it exactly happened approximately 523 00:32:40.289 --> 00:32:45.309 where you said so somewhere between 80s and 2010s this 524 00:32:45.430 --> 00:32:50.150 running boy actually became suddenly for everybody maybe for again, 525 00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:54.450 not suddenly, but it became a top dog. And now 526 00:32:54.490 --> 00:32:57.329 he says, no, now you will at least do some 527 00:32:57.369 --> 00:32:59.390 of my beatings. So you can say that there's a 528 00:32:59.410 --> 00:33:02.789 power shift within this kind of spiritual tribe group, and 529 00:33:02.950 --> 00:33:09.170 the reason is because this Pandora's box of electronics, Pandora's 530 00:33:09.210 --> 00:33:14.339 box of computer power, and real power it brings, control, simply. 531 00:33:14.390 --> 00:33:17.720 Like before you would, you can now have legitimate debate, well, 532 00:33:18.579 --> 00:33:20.859 I control them with money. Well, I can control them 533 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.660 with tech. And like, what's more efficient? And it's a 534 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.200

very strong argument within these power groups. And effectively, yeah, 535 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:32.329 by now you would say that globally, everybody has already 536 00:33:32.369 --> 00:33:35.089 surrendered to this idea. You can say that China is 537 00:33:35.130 --> 00:33:40.089 building its own technocratic states. Russia is building its version 538 00:33:40.130 --> 00:33:44.630 of technocratics. There is huge technocratic element within Russian current 539 00:33:44.789 --> 00:33:49.210 political system. India, any big power group, currently having to 540 00:33:49.250 --> 00:33:51.569 build on its own and some of them are doing 541 00:33:51.650 --> 00:33:54.710 because they're legitimately committed to the idea some of them 542 00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.799 are doing just simply because they're afraid to be defeated 543 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.339 and to be lost and like that's a big I 544 00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:05.299 would say hidden power of technocracy here because it creates 545 00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:11.039 this weird asymmetry you rarely would find an elite nowadays 546 00:34:11.059 --> 00:34:13.260 let's say there is an elite which is not a 547 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.690 tribe of the guys we are talking about it's just 548 00:34:15.730 --> 00:34:19.010 like some local I don't know, tribe king, basically. It 549 00:34:19.309 --> 00:34:21.769 has no this big a deal. It's just like my nation, 550 00:34:21.809 --> 00:34:23.909 my people, and I'm just protecting it, and that's how 551 00:34:23.989 --> 00:34:28.849 I see my duty. But then this technocrat liaison comes and, well, 552 00:34:28.889 --> 00:34:31.730 you can't protect it. Now look at my machine guns 553 00:34:31.750 --> 00:34:34.230 and look at my drones, and you kind of have 554 00:34:34.250 --> 00:34:37.329 a weird choice. You need either to become like them, 555 00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:40.789 you need either to join them directly, or you need 556 00:34:40.909 --> 00:34:44.349 to develop kind of your alternative or you can call 557 00:34:44.409 --> 00:34:48.090 it defense system against their technology, but the Catch-22 is 558 00:34:48.130 --> 00:34:51.110 to build this defense, it will be in itself a 559 00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:55.030 technological system, which in a way also serves their technocratic 560 00:34:55.070 --> 00:35:00.230 vision of the future. And that's why currently, historically speaking, 561 00:35:00.610 --> 00:35:05.809 the speed of this group gaining influence is really astonishing. 562 00:35:07.530 --> 00:35:11.429 Yeah, and I think that's, you know, related to what 563 00:35:11.449 --> 00:35:14.389 they call Metcalfe's Law, which is the idea that when 564 00:35:14.429 --> 00:35:18.329 a network grows, like, the speed and rapidity then sort 565 00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:21.969 of compounds, right? And so the same idea about technocracy 566 00:35:22.010 --> 00:35:26.349 or technology is that it's just going to rapidly expand 567 00:35:26.389 --> 00:35:29.849 and grow into, like we said, something akin to a 568 00:35:29.889 --> 00:35:33.730 point of singularity, which again, we continually, and most of 569 00:35:33.769 --> 00:35:38.550 these people come back to occult and esoteric topics precisely 570 00:35:38.590 --> 00:35:43.550 because even if the early technocrats of the Russell, you know, H.G. 571 00:35:43.570 --> 00:35:48.260 Wells era wanted to be more and more skeptical. I mean, 572 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.469 technically H.G. Wells says that he's Luciferian. He explicitly says that. 573 00:35:52.489 --> 00:35:55.409 It's not that skeptical, but on the surface. But Russell, 574 00:35:55.710 --> 00:35:58.750 at least, I think he was probably a rabid atheist. 575 00:35:59.090 --> 00:36:02.090 I think he really was. But when we get up 576 00:36:02.150 --> 00:36:07.119 into today's technocrats, what we tend to find is a 577 00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:14.199 lot more openness to explicit esotericism and occultism and hermeticism. 578 00:36:14.780 --> 00:36:16.849 And they're pretty open about that. And I don't just 579 00:36:16.909 --> 00:36:21.050 mean the thinker types like a Nick Land or, you know, 580 00:36:21.230 --> 00:36:25.409 Curtis Yarvin, but also who have influenced the technocrats for several, 581 00:36:25.469 --> 00:36:27.900 some of them. But also, you know, many of these 582 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:32.239 guys go to Burning Man. They do acid. They do hallucinogens. 583 00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:36.699 They trip out. Oh, yeah. They get inspiration. openly, um, 584 00:36:37.170 --> 00:36:38.769 not necessarily all of them, but, but even the most 585 00:36:38.809 --> 00:36:41.949 famous of all of these guys, Steve jobs was known 586 00:36:42.110 --> 00:36:47.429 as a, you know, regular acid tripper, which jobs felt the, 587 00:36:47.989 --> 00:36:51.110 the acid trips tapped him into this sort of mystical 588 00:36:51.590 --> 00:36:54.369 experience experiences. And I think he was into Buddhism or 589 00:36:54.389 --> 00:36:57.190 something like that, but he was still sort of getting 590 00:36:57.230 --> 00:37:02.039 inspiration from, you know, what, essentially the CIA had produced 591 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:05.559 through LSD and, and the technocrats all kind of share 592 00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:11.670 the same shamanic initiatory approach to reality that allows them 593 00:37:11.730 --> 00:37:15.829 to then transcend on their own personal levels. And then that, 594 00:37:16.050 --> 00:37:18.789 that sort of gives them the idea that to use 595 00:37:18.809 --> 00:37:22.309 the terminology of Yarvin, they're outside of the cathedral, right? 596 00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:25.960 Everyone else is the normie, the uninitiated, they're part of 597 00:37:26.019 --> 00:37:30.530 the cathedral and, Which is the liberal, democratic, you know, 598 00:37:31.530 --> 00:37:34.500 everything is just as it appears ethos that most people 599 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.059 are trapped into. And

again, this is why they all 600 00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:39.420 love the Matrix or their ideas. Oh, we've actually come 601 00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:41.599 out of the Matrix. You're all stuck in the NPC 602 00:37:42.260 --> 00:37:45.960 video game Matrix. We're outside of it. We transcended it. Thus, 603 00:37:46.219 --> 00:37:50.320 we have the mandate, the mandate of heaven, like we 604 00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:54.320 saw with earlier, you know, technocrats or with the Atlantis, 605 00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:57.019 the divine mandate. No, we have the demine mandate, like 606 00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:59.039 the British Empire said. No, we have it now because 607 00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:05.789 we are essentially going to be, you know, technates on 608 00:38:05.869 --> 00:38:12.130 a throne ruling when we don't need an altar anymore. 609 00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:14.889 I like that in the notes you guys put, it's 610 00:38:15.010 --> 00:38:16.010 throne without altar. 611 00:38:16.530 --> 00:38:20.219 Yeah, but I just, again, it's just a weird power 612 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.719 play happening right in front of our eyes because I 613 00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:26.269 feel like they kind of, these old, let's say, tribes 614 00:38:26.369 --> 00:38:28.989 and these new tribes that kind of trying almost to 615 00:38:29.030 --> 00:38:33.469 trick each other. What I find is funny in the claim, yes, cathedral, snormy, 616 00:38:33.570 --> 00:38:35.820 like we are outside of it, but you end up 617 00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:40.179 building infrastructure for the same old guy who's been running 618 00:38:40.219 --> 00:38:44.079 the show since Venetian banks. Yes, you're not maybe a 619 00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.860 running boy like Aaron Boyle the way you used to be, 620 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:50.679 but on a spiritual level, are you truly outside cathedral? 621 00:38:50.739 --> 00:38:51.010 No. 622 00:38:51.110 --> 00:38:53.960 Let's say on your personal level, yes, from the historical 623 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.860 power play perspective, yes, this fringe group of people believing 624 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:02.989 in weird freak ideas now became super relevant that even big, say, 625 00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:06.690 old clans want to integrate parts of it, and they 626 00:39:06.769 --> 00:39:11.469 really have to deal with it. However, on the plane 627 00:39:11.510 --> 00:39:15.750 of meanings... do you truly get out of considerable and 628 00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:19.079 the answer is no it's a delusion you're still absolutely 629 00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:23.960 within the same progress transhumanism openly paradigm. 630 00:39:23.539 --> 00:39:26.590 Same tech the same technocrat is sitting at a computer 631 00:39:26.610 --> 00:39:28.650 all day So he's essentially still in the matrix. 632 00:39:28.869 --> 00:39:32.820 Yeah, you're absolutely in the same. And yes, basically you 633 00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:37.059 reach aversion. Yes, you go into this whole spiritual quote-unquote experience. 634 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.519 But in the same way, we have description of all 635 00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:44.820 these different spiritual experiences for every other group, starting from 636 00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:49.090 Gnostic temple orgies to other versions of this kind of 637 00:39:49.110 --> 00:39:53.139 experiences so you're not getting out of it however that's 638 00:39:53.179 --> 00:39:55.179 definitely an appeal and I'm glad you brought it up 639 00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.960 to get this out of cathedral it actually like yeah 640 00:40:00.139 --> 00:40:06.199 the KGB moment mandatory on this kind of stream you 641 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:10.380 can see that historically why there is a certain infatuation 642 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.780 of this particular type of minds with for example communist 643 00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:18.329 projects especially in Russia You can know, for example, you 644 00:40:18.369 --> 00:40:22.409 know that in 30s, a huge part, significant part of 645 00:40:22.489 --> 00:40:26.389 Russian Soviet industrialization has been carried out with the help 646 00:40:26.429 --> 00:40:29.510 of American engineers, with the help of American capital. 647 00:40:29.730 --> 00:40:34.570 Yeah, Anthony Sutton. In fact, Brzezinski cites Sutton in Between 648 00:40:34.610 --> 00:40:41.110 Two Ages about American industrialists building up the Soviet industries. 649 00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:44.610 Yeah. Again, not all of it, but played absolutely a 650 00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:47.869 huge part. which we rarely talk about. And for them, 651 00:40:47.889 --> 00:40:50.219 it was kind of back then just an interesting experiment. 652 00:40:50.469 --> 00:40:53.820 Yeah. Russell speaks this way. He says, we're excited about 653 00:40:53.860 --> 00:40:54.739 the experiment in Russia. 654 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:58.340 Yeah. So, which, you know, it's usually horrible to be 655 00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:01.659 a part of an experiment, but like, you don't really 656 00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:04.619 think about it this way. But I'm saying it like, 657 00:41:04.659 --> 00:41:08.409 so there was connection from back at the very beginning. 658 00:41:08.949 --> 00:41:12.250 And then later, like within the internal workings of the 659 00:41:12.269 --> 00:41:17.150 Soviet Union, for example, this idea of which later been 660 00:41:17.329 --> 00:41:20.769 in many ways, I would say, translated starting from 70s 661 00:41:21.010 --> 00:41:25.960 into the whole Soviet area of interest, including, say, China. 662 00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:31.139 And China then started to do its own version of it. Ironically, 663 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:37.110 they're actually starting to become way more pragmatist and utilitarian. 664 00:41:37.570 --> 00:41:41.269 than they were communists. That's why this part of the story, Americans, 665 00:41:41.349 --> 00:41:43.690 I don't think know, and they still think that the 666 00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:46.590 Soviet

Union, you know, the same thing all over its 667 00:41:46.630 --> 00:41:50.510 existence and this total ideological project, especially if you look 668 00:41:50.550 --> 00:41:54.110 into an elite after 60s, most part of the Soviet 669 00:41:54.150 --> 00:41:58.159 elite actually was very much done with the communist idea 670 00:41:58.179 --> 00:42:03.880 as a real idea. And what they were fascinated with 671 00:42:03.900 --> 00:42:05.900 was this idea of convergence. And we talked about the 672 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:08.960 idea of convergence in more, let's say, Fabian meaning of 673 00:42:08.980 --> 00:42:12.840 this word, because, yes, that's how it started. Not how 674 00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:14.920 it started, I would think it is the main line 675 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:17.559 of it. So this whole contradiction between capitalist and socialist 676 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:20.199 system is absurd because we are moving ultimately to the 677 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:24.360 one global system. And basically, kind of, if you look 678 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:28.039 into now, kind of, yeah, is a country with $ 40 679 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.239 trillion state debt the biggest employer of the country being 680 00:42:31.300 --> 00:42:35.659 a state, a socialist country or a capitalist country. Who knows? Ultimately, 681 00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:40.019 the whole language became irrelevant. But as a subtle note, 682 00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:45.650 there was also within this at this time appearing a 683 00:42:45.690 --> 00:42:51.449 tribe or an idea that exactly the end goal doesn't matter. 684 00:42:51.750 --> 00:42:53.889 There is no really such a thing as an end goal. 685 00:42:54.250 --> 00:42:56.730 And communism is not a child. This final state is 686 00:42:56.789 --> 00:43:01.199 not really achievable. But the process and people who know 687 00:43:01.300 --> 00:43:04.719 how to operate the process are the key, the methodology. 688 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.219 The method is the key, you can call it something 689 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:11.860 like this. And from that perspective, this method is pragmatic 690 00:43:12.889 --> 00:43:18.510 and it's beyond ideology. So this is a big temptation. 691 00:43:18.710 --> 00:43:21.110 This we don't know in the West. So this is 692 00:43:21.130 --> 00:43:24.659 the element. So I knew, for example, that the Soviets 693 00:43:24.699 --> 00:43:29.530 had kind of undergone moving more towards... A type of 694 00:43:29.570 --> 00:43:32.630 pragmatism because they saw a lot of the rigid, you know, 695 00:43:32.670 --> 00:43:35.860 approach that was earlier on from, you know, the Lenins 696 00:43:35.929 --> 00:43:37.059 or the Trotskyists. 697 00:43:37.099 --> 00:43:37.239 Yeah. 698 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.440 It wasn't really working. And so you'll have, for example, 699 00:43:39.460 --> 00:43:41.179 the Trotskyites were critiquing. 700 00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:44.039 Yes. Stalinism. Because it's absolutely betrayal of communism. Yes. 701 00:43:44.059 --> 00:43:46.099 And they were saying, oh, you're a bourgeois. 702 00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:46.300 Yeah. 703 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.889 So they called Stalin bourgeois, but Stalin would realize that, well, 704 00:43:50.190 --> 00:43:53.090 certain things have to be preserved or else we'll lose everything. Mm-hmm. 705 00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:55.550 So it was a pragmatic move, I think, from Stalin, 706 00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:57.969 and I think probably more that pragmatism... It's. 707 00:43:57.929 --> 00:44:01.269 Even changed before, because pragmatism of Stalin was, I would 708 00:44:01.309 --> 00:44:06.789 still say, historical pragmatism. I would say it's an interesting technocrats, 709 00:44:06.849 --> 00:44:10.179 but yes, it's relevant. Just a quick note, what happened 710 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:14.679 with Stalin is at a certain point, he realized himself 711 00:44:14.699 --> 00:44:18.800 a statesman first and a communist second. That's actually important, 712 00:44:18.820 --> 00:44:22.400 like why he's such a hated figure, I would say. Again, 713 00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:26.059 you can hate Stalin for different reasons. And let's say 714 00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:29.329 if you're a Christian, you can cause the whole martyrs 715 00:44:29.389 --> 00:44:32.449 and church executions. This is a line of argument I 716 00:44:32.489 --> 00:44:36.449 can understand coming from people. But many critique of Stalin 717 00:44:36.469 --> 00:44:40.460 within especially current, the general Western academia, to me, cannot 718 00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:43.380 be explained through this classical explanation. The real reason they 719 00:44:43.420 --> 00:44:45.420 hate him is because he's kind of the betrayal of 720 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.179 the movement because instead of using Russia to build the 721 00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:51.570 global communism, he actually started to use global communists to 722 00:44:51.610 --> 00:44:54.150 keep the state afloat and to keep the Russian state afloat, 723 00:44:54.210 --> 00:44:56.590 which from the perspective of communism is absolute. 724 00:44:56.610 --> 00:44:57.130 Is bourgeois. 725 00:44:57.289 --> 00:45:01.289 Is bourgeois, is absolute betrayal. And that's why this kind 726 00:45:01.409 --> 00:45:04.929 of whole... Basically, there was internal struggle in the Soviet Union. 727 00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:09.150 And from my perspective, he was like, killed. Yeah, no, 728 00:45:09.170 --> 00:45:11.369 I think there's a lot of evidence for that, and 729 00:45:11.389 --> 00:45:14.130 I agree. But help us out here, because you're getting 730 00:45:14.170 --> 00:45:15.809 to that. Yeah, I'm getting closer. You're getting to that 731 00:45:15.829 --> 00:45:18.389 point to where we, this is something we don't understand. Yeah, 732 00:45:18.409 --> 00:45:20.869 and then, again, but then you have, imagine you're in 733 00:45:20.889 --> 00:45:25.500 the Soviet 60s and Soviet 70s. The Stalinism is

gone, 734 00:45:25.659 --> 00:45:28.280 and you're already on the age of convergence, but already, 735 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.199 that's one thing people in the West miss, the Soviet 736 00:45:31.239 --> 00:45:35.639 Union People think about the Soviet Union as Russia's past here, 737 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.980 but in many ways it's more like a Western future. Because, 738 00:45:39.659 --> 00:45:43.610 like it or not, you have huge similarities between exactly 739 00:45:43.650 --> 00:45:46.809 that Soviet Union and what's happening currently in America. But why? 740 00:45:46.829 --> 00:45:49.150 Because the experiment has been running longer. It was the 741 00:45:49.190 --> 00:45:51.880 same experiment, and it's just been kind of on a 742 00:45:51.909 --> 00:45:55.530 quicker scale, reaching conclusions quicker. Basically, even the idea of 743 00:45:55.590 --> 00:46:01.010 convergence almost becomes too optimistic because it's still too goal-oriented. 744 00:46:01.510 --> 00:46:06.070 It still has too much concreteness in it. But kind 745 00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:11.199 of a person who loses God, like effectively, ends up 746 00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:14.710 running in circles. And I will say, I'm really simplifying it. 747 00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:18.300 And by 70s, like the cutting edge of Russian, let's say, 748 00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:22.469 not Russian, Soviet, communist, etc., groups starting to exactly, that 749 00:46:22.510 --> 00:46:24.530 became the key problem for it. You can find it 750 00:46:24.570 --> 00:46:29.510 effectively in Russian fantasy novels like Strugatsky. But on a 751 00:46:29.550 --> 00:46:32.510 power group, it's the name of Shedrovitsky and his whole 752 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:35.980 sect of methodologists who effectively came to power with a 753 00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:41.119 set realization and they're starting to showing and explaining that, guys, 754 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:45.980 anything concrete will fail. The only thing we can work with, 755 00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:51.679 follow through, be with is method itself. process itself so 756 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.320 it's a techne without any ethos ultimately and that's what 757 00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.500 like and for them it was more like social techne 758 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:01.619 not like this you know material techne it was more 759 00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.989 like social techne but it was a perfect ultimate techne 760 00:47:05.389 --> 00:47:07.690 and we even just need to accept it and in 761 00:47:07.730 --> 00:47:12.710 this very postmodernist move in this pointless area of movement 762 00:47:12.769 --> 00:47:16.050 we just need to enjoy the process and to control 763 00:47:16.070 --> 00:47:19.170 the process to the key word for them is a 764 00:47:19.230 --> 00:47:25.349 game Everything in society becomes a situational, processional, organizational game. 765 00:47:25.449 --> 00:47:29.269 Would this be like, are you familiar with the Rand 766 00:47:29.289 --> 00:47:30.489 Corporation's game theory? 767 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.579 I think game theory is way more different. Correct me 768 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.460 if I'm wrong. I know the game theory that comes 769 00:47:35.500 --> 00:47:37.800 from mathematic and to, you know, like the classical game 770 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:39.960 theory to define risks. 771 00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:44.389 Well, in the Rand Corporation's idea, essentially, and there's sort 772 00:47:44.409 --> 00:47:47.329 of the mastermind of the Cold War for the West, 773 00:47:47.510 --> 00:47:50.510 the idea is what's called rational choice theory. Okay, no, 774 00:47:50.590 --> 00:47:53.489 it's not about rational choice. It's not about rational choice. 775 00:47:53.690 --> 00:47:56.969 It's about that, you know how in a game when basically, 776 00:47:57.070 --> 00:47:59.929 and they use a lot of images of like kids playing, 777 00:48:00.070 --> 00:48:02.349 et cetera, you don't have a real purpose of the 778 00:48:02.389 --> 00:48:05.610 game often, like in a child's play, but you enter 779 00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:08.630 a game, you exit it, somehow something changes, you move 780 00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:11.590 on to the next game. And, But there is no 781 00:48:11.710 --> 00:48:16.150 like deep, real inherent purpose in anything because it's ultimately 782 00:48:16.190 --> 00:48:21.070 just a situational construct, which, but it produces changes. And 783 00:48:21.090 --> 00:48:23.800 what we are interested in like, okay, this game produces 784 00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.639 this sort of changes, which will move into the next game. 785 00:48:26.699 --> 00:48:29.159 And this game will move into the next game. And 786 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.820 this participant of a game will kind of start changing 787 00:48:32.889 --> 00:48:34.750 each other. But we kind of will. 788 00:48:34.630 --> 00:48:38.010 Be also esoterically outside of, we will have basically our 789 00:48:38.110 --> 00:48:40.699 own game of games and we will, observe these games. 790 00:48:40.980 --> 00:48:42.719 But I sound weird, like why it's relevant we are 791 00:48:42.739 --> 00:48:43.840 talking about technocrats. 792 00:48:44.179 --> 00:48:47.219 And are you saying essentially that this is kind of 793 00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:51.300 what dominates modern Russian political theory? 794 00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:54.820 Not all of it, praise God. Like I'll say modern 795 00:48:54.860 --> 00:48:58.840 Russian space, real to understand, has been like 30 years 796 00:48:58.929 --> 00:49:03.989 of deep conflict, subconscious, open and hidden, even for most participants, 797 00:49:04.789 --> 00:49:09.340 between historicists and methodologists. Historians as a guy who don't 798 00:49:09.380 --> 00:49:11.860 have this big power vision, even like what we would talk, 799 00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:14.860 they would be really surprised. I would say they are great. 800 00:49:16.570 --> 00:49:18.829 You would

call them. It is funny because it's kind 801 00:49:18.849 --> 00:49:21.280 of what you see nowadays. why everything looks such a 802 00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:24.739 big mess they are pretty good at mid-level theory mid-level 803 00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:27.829 operations so it's classical statecraft it's like the guys who 804 00:49:27.869 --> 00:49:32.650 still live psychologically in somewhere 19th century so there is 805 00:49:32.670 --> 00:49:34.570 a state there is a country it has its history 806 00:49:34.590 --> 00:49:36.429 it needs to be protected it needs to be pushed 807 00:49:36.469 --> 00:49:41.980 forward for example the general staff of Russia. That's basically 808 00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:46.909 a real citadel of historicism, being there for, like, before revolution, 809 00:49:46.949 --> 00:49:50.070 during revolution, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, still 810 00:49:50.110 --> 00:49:53.250 you have a general staff, which still has its theory of, 811 00:49:53.269 --> 00:49:57.769 let's say, doing war, operating war, protecting the country, etc., etc. 812 00:49:57.809 --> 00:50:00.750 Putin himself is like a historicist. He thinks of history. 813 00:50:00.969 --> 00:50:04.639 And that's why, well, I don't maybe... No, that's the 814 00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.000 weird part. He's not at the high level we're talking. 815 00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.579 He doesn't talk about this global order. He doesn't talk 816 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:16.340 about I want to bring transhumanism or singularity, etc., etc., etc. 817 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.239 All these things we talked about, he legitimately would be 818 00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:24.420 very uncomfortable talking with. He's a guy who I have 819 00:50:24.460 --> 00:50:28.500 my god or whatever, some historical force has put me 820 00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.440 in charge of this, and it's my duty to not 821 00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:34.619 let it fall down and to ensure that after me 822 00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:36.559 it will be in better states than before me so 823 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:40.750 in many ways a classical very classical historical power approach 824 00:50:41.210 --> 00:50:47.849 problem is without having this upper let's say framework it's 825 00:50:48.269 --> 00:50:52.929 insufficient to truly achieve sovereignty in my opinion and independence 826 00:50:53.030 --> 00:50:55.429 but at least this part is still there at the 827 00:50:55.449 --> 00:50:58.010 same time the second group the methodologists they were still 828 00:50:58.070 --> 00:51:00.940 huge power of a part of Russian power groups, and 829 00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:04.130 they are the guys who effectively present themselves exactly as 830 00:51:05.730 --> 00:51:09.769 guys beyond ideology. We are just about doing technocrats. They 831 00:51:10.250 --> 00:51:13.949 call them technocrats, even the same word, in a sense, well, 832 00:51:13.989 --> 00:51:17.449 you still need your city be run. You still need your, 833 00:51:17.469 --> 00:51:21.010 let's say, system to be functioning nicely, and we will 834 00:51:21.070 --> 00:51:23.429 do it. And that's their kind of appeal. So they 835 00:51:23.469 --> 00:51:27.880 present themselves, you know, basically all of this ideological... idealist 836 00:51:27.940 --> 00:51:31.280 pragmatic struggles they're like you yourself know better that it's 837 00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:34.519 all pointless and it's just a illusion to entertain or 838 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:37.610 whatever it is and obviously when you talk to quote 839 00:51:37.650 --> 00:51:40.650 unquote they I think that's a lie but they might 840 00:51:40.730 --> 00:51:42.849 honestly believe in it that all of let's say when 841 00:51:42.869 --> 00:51:44.889 we talk about let's say Zionists or when we talk 842 00:51:44.949 --> 00:51:48.949 about later neocons or when we talk about Fabians they 843 00:51:50.110 --> 00:51:54.139 really smart people cannot do this for serious really smart 844 00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:56.730 like that would be their argument You cannot be that 845 00:51:56.789 --> 00:52:00.449 naive because there is just the process. There is nothing 846 00:52:00.510 --> 00:52:03.769 beyond it. And that would be their kind of pragmatic appeal. 847 00:52:04.110 --> 00:52:05.909 And the reason I've been bringing it up because I 848 00:52:05.969 --> 00:52:09.969 actually see huge parallels between this group and what in 849 00:52:10.050 --> 00:52:14.130 many ways, at least part of the technocratic movement, wants 850 00:52:14.190 --> 00:52:19.170 to kind of go beyond. Because, again, in the West, ironically, 851 00:52:19.190 --> 00:52:21.250 I would say because they didn't experience this whole Soviet 852 00:52:21.349 --> 00:52:27.710 Union experiment, They are way more optimistic. They truly believe 853 00:52:27.750 --> 00:52:32.869 in singularity. People in Russia, like this power group in Russia, 854 00:52:32.909 --> 00:52:36.139 which would be more, let's say, spiritually aligned with the technocrats, 855 00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:39.500 doesn't truly believe in singularity, but it's pretty happy to... 856 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:43.079 They think definitely as a next evolutionary step, just not 857 00:52:43.139 --> 00:52:46.199 as a radical. It would definitely transformatively change society. It 858 00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:50.909 creates opportunity for new games. It creates like a... absolute 859 00:52:50.929 --> 00:52:54.409 different context and absolute different settings. And we cannot let 860 00:52:54.469 --> 00:52:58.659 ourselves fall back. That would be their huge argument. If 861 00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:00.900 the West is doing this, we're like, we cannot let 862 00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.679 ourselves fall back from it. We need to give up. 863 00:53:03.699 --> 00:53:06.219 So that would be how it is. But I would 864 00:53:06.260 --> 00:53:10.500 say they don't have this deep philosophical, let's say, theological 865 00:53:10.539 -->

00:53:12.980 background beyond it. But at the same time, they do have, 866 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:17.719 because ultimately the key heart of the methodologist claim is 867 00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:20.530 that there is no subject. I think that's kind of 868 00:53:20.750 --> 00:53:23.090 where it all, and you can see how we started. 869 00:53:23.610 --> 00:53:26.219 Could you, for the sake of my audience, when you 870 00:53:26.260 --> 00:53:28.340 say there is no subject, could you explain that? 871 00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:32.880 Well, I mean that you can see that, philosophically speaking, 872 00:53:32.900 --> 00:53:36.139 so subject is effectively a man capable of making a 873 00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:41.389 sovereign action, ultimately. And what they argument would be this 874 00:53:41.730 --> 00:53:46.909 possibility of making truly sovereign action is an illusion. Because 875 00:53:47.170 --> 00:53:51.510 ultimately it's Whatever decision you make, it's been affected by 876 00:53:51.590 --> 00:53:55.889 so many elements of the process. And the process itself 877 00:53:55.949 --> 00:54:02.610 kind of almost determines the outcome of the game. Or 878 00:54:02.750 --> 00:54:06.090 even the movement bigger, they would say, well, we don't 879 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:08.780 even really know how this happens. And like we can 880 00:54:09.139 --> 00:54:13.300 post factum as a mystery, observe it, but there is 881 00:54:13.340 --> 00:54:16.699 no classical way rationality how here is me and here 882 00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:18.380 is my decision here is me and here is me 883 00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:21.860 making my moral choice no that's that's where they would 884 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:25.489 say it's an illusion like you're giving too much uh 885 00:54:25.610 --> 00:54:31.349 credit for human nature human capacity human willpower which at 886 00:54:31.389 --> 00:54:33.219 the same time you can see how this position is 887 00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:36.820 very aligned with western technocrats they would also say there 888 00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:39.820 is no subject truly because there is a computer there 889 00:54:39.860 --> 00:54:43.960 is algorithms but there is no Average Joe Schmo cannot 890 00:54:44.019 --> 00:54:46.480 make a decision for himself. We must make a decision 891 00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:47.039 for him. 892 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:53.820 Yeah, I think the thing that maybe contrasts the Western 893 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:59.019 technocratic oligarchical approach is this heavy influence, as we said earlier, 894 00:54:59.659 --> 00:55:03.599 of classical liberalism and radical individualism. Because essentially every one 895 00:55:03.619 --> 00:55:09.880 of these technocrats sees themselves as this sort of Nietzschean rummage, right? 896 00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:13.980 So Nietzsche, I think, places this heavily, especially with the 897 00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:17.260 more recent technocrats that we see who are themselves, I 898 00:55:17.699 --> 00:55:21.239 think Nick Land is a nihilist, a Nietzschean. And they 899 00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:23.849 see that as a sort of a process that the 900 00:55:23.889 --> 00:55:26.590 individual goes through to achieve enlightenment. When you come to 901 00:55:27.269 --> 00:55:31.289 study and understand Nietzsche, you understand you are then perhaps 902 00:55:31.469 --> 00:55:34.469 the Ubermensch. And who would be more of an Ubermensch 903 00:55:34.489 --> 00:55:39.730 than Nietzsche? a technocrat who controls a feudal. But I 904 00:55:39.750 --> 00:55:42.849 wanted to say this, there's this old, when you were 905 00:55:42.869 --> 00:55:48.570 talking about the game, the games approach that the methodologists have, 906 00:55:48.630 --> 00:55:50.610 it reminded me of back in when I was a kid, 907 00:55:51.409 --> 00:55:54.090 there was a common trope in cartoons that you would watch, like, 908 00:55:54.110 --> 00:55:55.429 I don't know if you've heard of G.I. Joe. 909 00:55:55.630 --> 00:55:55.829 Okay. 910 00:55:55.969 --> 00:55:57.929 So G.I. Joe is this sort of like a cartoon, 911 00:55:58.449 --> 00:56:02.309 sort of, you know, special forces Americans that are saving 912 00:56:02.369 --> 00:56:05.409 the world from Cobra. And Every now and then, sometimes 913 00:56:06.510 --> 00:56:08.719 there would even be these weird episodes where G.I. Joe 914 00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:11.699 and Cobra would have to unite. And there's one where 915 00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:14.639 they're stuck on an island, and this island is run 916 00:56:14.679 --> 00:56:15.780 by the game master. 917 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:16.360 Okay. 918 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.280 And he's this kind of lunatic sort of mad scientist, 919 00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:22.320 but he's a technocrat. And he controls this whole island, 920 00:56:22.730 --> 00:56:24.929 and he likes to just sort of play games to 921 00:56:24.969 --> 00:56:28.369 control and study the groups. Yes. And this makes me 922 00:56:28.409 --> 00:56:31.210 think of... If I think about what you described and 923 00:56:31.230 --> 00:56:34.460 then the American technocrats and they're sort of, you know, 924 00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:38.280 we will study the movements and get all the algorithmic 925 00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:43.179 information and data to control. But there's no real explanation 926 00:56:43.219 --> 00:56:45.619 as to why we're doing this other than the technocrats 927 00:56:45.659 --> 00:56:47.760 somehow thinks he'll eventually achieve immortality. 928 00:56:47.889 --> 00:56:50.010 No, but that's the thing. I would say that's the difference. 929 00:56:50.269 --> 00:56:51.170 One last point. One last point. 930 00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:55.179 Just that. The way we can understand socialism in regard 931 00:56:55.219 --> 00:57:00.909 to this is that even the super anarcho-capitalist technocrat who 932 00:57:00.969 --> 00:57:05.789 sees himself as antithetical to socialism, if he's the ubermensch, 933 00:57:06.250 -->

00:57:10.389 he doesn't have any problem using socialism on the masses. 934 00:57:11.210 --> 00:57:14.460 And that's why they would propose then a universal basic income, 935 00:57:14.699 --> 00:57:18.579 which is essentially technocratic. That's the old Fabian model. Fabian 936 00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:22.239 said 100 years ago, In the technocracy, you'll have a 937 00:57:22.820 --> 00:57:25.659 credit system that rolls out to you on the regular. 938 00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:27.900 Absolutely. But the difference would be a Fabian would do 939 00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:31.340 it almost with a bigger intention and with a bigger meaning. 940 00:57:31.429 --> 00:57:36.610 He will see more meaning behind it. Whereas for American technocrat, 941 00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:40.710 it can be a tool for a game for control. 942 00:57:41.269 --> 00:57:44.250 And a Soviet, again, luckily, just to be clear, the 943 00:57:44.289 --> 00:57:47.489 difference is like in Russia, this group is not truly 944 00:57:47.510 --> 00:57:50.940 in control. It is one of... It has influence, but 945 00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:55.320 it's not truly in control. West has moved way more technocratic. 946 00:57:55.360 --> 00:57:58.610 But the Russian group would say, well, but even this, 947 00:57:59.090 --> 00:58:04.130 you imposing control through basic universal income on a group 948 00:58:04.550 --> 00:58:09.090 is still ultimately a game. Like the true mastery would 949 00:58:09.159 --> 00:58:13.639 come from kind of moving beyond, accepting the senselessness. So 950 00:58:13.699 --> 00:58:17.309 it is a nihilism, but it's almost, senseless so the 951 00:58:17.329 --> 00:58:20.250 niche nihilism if you can call it's like heroical like 952 00:58:20.289 --> 00:58:22.750 it has this element of like me moving beyond like 953 00:58:22.789 --> 00:58:26.090 this uber mansion element and this is a nihilism of 954 00:58:26.110 --> 00:58:28.960 a little bit of a tired old man like there 955 00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:32.780 is this kind of tiredness and cynicism in it and 956 00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:36.420 just acceptance more absurd like it's actually way more like 957 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:40.300 you you know camus this kind of the french exist 958 00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:43.719 yeah approach. So that's, I would say, would kind of 959 00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:47.420 be a spiritual difference. So for Shedrovitsky and his games, 960 00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:50.280 the game, the purpose of the game is just to continue. 961 00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:53.219 There is no end to the game. And when we 962 00:58:53.239 --> 00:58:56.590 play games, the moment you start to treat it too serious, 963 00:58:57.210 --> 00:59:01.250 you're already becoming not an operator of a game, but 964 00:59:01.309 --> 00:59:03.170 you are becoming part of the game. Part of the game. 965 00:59:03.389 --> 00:59:05.590 But you're already, even operator is part of the game, 966 00:59:05.610 --> 00:59:07.949 but you're becoming just a regular part of the game, 967 00:59:07.989 --> 00:59:09.969 like not an operator, not an operator. 968 00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:13.219 Yeah, in those cartoons when they use that trope, it's 969 00:59:13.260 --> 00:59:17.710 funny because the game master is always, he's sort of insane. Yeah. 970 00:59:17.789 --> 00:59:20.329 And he's not really going towards any goal other than 971 00:59:20.349 --> 00:59:22.909 to just sort of like play the game and to 972 00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:23.349 study them. 973 00:59:23.630 --> 00:59:25.690 Yeah. And this is kind of, I think in many ways, 974 00:59:25.769 --> 00:59:28.389 technocrats will end up going after this period of like 975 00:59:28.409 --> 00:59:32.420 huge optimism, getting to power, but then suddenly nothing is 976 00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:34.179 going to work and they will need to admit that 977 00:59:34.219 --> 00:59:36.619 the moment you set up a certain vision, a certain goal, 978 00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:38.860 a certain plan, it will backfire. 979 00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:41.550 Well, it's funny you say that because many of these 980 00:59:41.590 --> 00:59:45.369 technocrats in the last 10 to 15 years have also 981 00:59:46.070 --> 00:59:50.800 taken this approach of building underground compounds i'm serious yeah 982 00:59:50.860 --> 00:59:54.590 i know new zealand hawaii islands peter till wants his 983 00:59:54.670 --> 00:59:57.630 own floating fortress so they're sort of doing this sort 984 00:59:57.670 --> 01:00:01.670 of retreat to like you know underground bases so as 985 01:00:01.750 --> 01:00:04.190 if perhaps they realize that okay maybe we're not going 986 01:00:04.210 --> 01:00:07.800 to be able to set up a fiefdom in uh 987 01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.639 you know atlanta where we control all the states around. 988 01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:13.929 Maybe or maybe we will but it still won't But 989 01:00:14.030 --> 01:00:17.389 maybe we won't get what we personally wanted, ironically, because 990 01:00:17.429 --> 01:00:18.889 they want to keep this both position. 991 01:00:19.510 --> 01:00:20.610 You mean hedging their bets? 992 01:00:20.829 --> 01:00:21.670 Hedging their bets. 993 01:00:21.690 --> 01:00:24.630 Maybe if America does collapse and our system doesn't work, 994 01:00:24.650 --> 01:00:25.769 we can retreat. 995 01:00:25.969 --> 01:00:32.280 Yeah, something like this, because they didn't fulfill our expectations. 996 01:00:32.460 --> 01:00:35.739 Something of this sort. The stupid messes managed to break 997 01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:39.099 otherwise would be great. Or stupid other groups, like these 998 01:00:39.420 --> 01:00:43.519 guys who believe... Because we present them as... as these 999 01:00:43.539 --> 01:00:47.460 groups just peacefully coexisting, but obviously it's not for those 1000 01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:51.019 of our audience. It's like it's a clear war. 1001 01:00:51.039 --> 01:00:55.650 For example, if Russia, you know, went to war with 1002 01:00:56.110 -->

01:00:58.989 the US, that might not be good for people wanting 1003 01:00:59.030 --> 01:00:59.849 to set up a tech night. 1004 01:01:00.050 --> 01:01:03.989 Yeah, absolutely. For this group very much, they really, they 1005 01:01:04.010 --> 01:01:08.389 have a very weird attitude towards war. But also, war 1006 01:01:08.409 --> 01:01:10.800 for them is definitely a game. It's a game where 1007 01:01:10.820 --> 01:01:10.949 we can. 1008 01:01:10.980 --> 01:01:13.039 Are you talking about Russian technocrats or are you talking 1009 01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:13.480 about American? 1010 01:01:13.659 --> 01:01:16.500 I would say all technocrats. Just luckily, Russian technocrats have 1011 01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.969 no access to military. That's one big difference. Because military 1012 01:01:21.010 --> 01:01:24.510 is run by historicists. And these guys just know. You 1013 01:01:24.530 --> 01:01:26.710 can run with, I don't know, you can do a 1014 01:01:26.730 --> 01:01:29.789 social credit system experiment in one of Russian regions, but 1015 01:01:29.829 --> 01:01:33.570 you're not coming to my army. No. So, no, it's 1016 01:01:33.610 --> 01:01:37.139 more exactly about this Western, you know, fascination with drones, 1017 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:41.230 the idea of, as we said, dehumanized warfare but why 1018 01:01:41.530 --> 01:01:44.809 do they truly understand the nature of war no they 1019 01:01:45.050 --> 01:01:47.909 absolutely don't understand what war entails for them unfortunately it's 1020 01:01:47.929 --> 01:01:50.409 like a weird computer game and that's kind of what 1021 01:01:50.530 --> 01:01:53.239 makes it truly dangerous and scary is they have no 1022 01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:56.880 real philosophy of war they honestly think it's just a 1023 01:01:56.940 --> 01:02:00.739 polygon to entertain their ideas and yes ukraine is a 1024 01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:03.619 polygon iran is a polygon they don't really care about 1025 01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:06.969 what is happening it's just that playground there's the same 1026 01:02:07.010 --> 01:02:09.210 polygon but it's a playground and that's kind of where 1027 01:02:09.469 --> 01:02:14.070 unity is happening and ironically though like I think this 1028 01:02:14.409 --> 01:02:17.659 war example shows one like let's move in a little 1029 01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:19.880 bit on a higher level again because people you're talking 1030 01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:22.699 about what's so wrong without it well one big lie 1031 01:02:22.739 --> 01:02:27.019 of technocracy original sin of technocracy if you want to 1032 01:02:27.059 --> 01:02:29.980 call it which they cannot run away from is that 1033 01:02:30.179 --> 01:02:35.639 its promise is unreachable even within the technocratical premise. 1034 01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:36.460 Yes, absolutely. 1035 01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:40.789 And it's very easy to show. For example, for many 1036 01:02:40.829 --> 01:02:43.750 people saw that drone will be a great alternative

to 1037 01:02:44.269 --> 01:02:48.210 deal with the problem of collateral damage or human error. 1038 01:02:49.210 --> 01:02:52.070 So let's say we will use this algorithm, it will 1039 01:02:52.170 --> 01:02:56.420 do a perfect target distinction, and then it will lead 1040 01:02:56.460 --> 01:03:00.949 to clean warfare, pure warfare. But what is happening? You 1041 01:03:00.989 --> 01:03:03.739 know that when the attack on Iran started, there was 1042 01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:09.099 this big tragedy of a schoolgirl, a girl's high school 1043 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:14.119 being bombed. And it had been bombed effectively using AI. 1044 01:03:15.070 --> 01:03:17.449 And you can say, well, so first, AI is not 1045 01:03:17.730 --> 01:03:21.010 prone to mistakes. However, it's even bigger. If you read 1046 01:03:21.190 --> 01:03:25.329 into Alex Karp's interview, you will find his quotes from 1047 01:03:25.349 --> 01:03:29.460 different areas where he basically says that the idea of 1048 01:03:29.869 --> 01:03:33.639 childbirth idea of children gives me quivers yeah he's an 1049 01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:37.639 antinatalist he's an antinatalist so what does the story tell 1050 01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:42.480 so you have this guy's ethos will spirit running his 1051 01:03:42.539 --> 01:03:46.670 soul inhabiting the machine then you can't like you can 1052 01:03:46.710 --> 01:03:48.989 say oh just a mistake well first of all so 1053 01:03:49.030 --> 01:03:52.070 your ai is still prone of mistake but there is 1054 01:03:52.110 --> 01:03:55.150 even bigger problem so no matter even your ai will 1055 01:03:55.230 --> 01:04:00.320 be outside the It will be perfect. It still has 1056 01:04:00.380 --> 01:04:06.320 this imprint of a particular human will and spirit which 1057 01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:10.110 has been shaping this will, which then will later affect 1058 01:04:10.210 --> 01:04:14.449 critical AI decision. And any machine you take will have 1059 01:04:14.489 --> 01:04:17.239 this problem. But we will have a machine that builds 1060 01:04:17.510 --> 01:04:21.489 a machine. So who imprinted the first machine? So this 1061 01:04:21.530 --> 01:04:25.429 whole promise of achieving neutrality, this whole promise of moving 1062 01:04:25.570 --> 01:04:30.170 beyond the human error is actually absurd because the only 1063 01:04:30.210 --> 01:04:33.269 thing you are doing through technocracy is that you are 1064 01:04:33.590 --> 01:04:36.769 making your original error bigger and bigger. 1065 01:04:37.130 --> 01:04:40.329 Well, that's the point too that some have made criticizing 1066 01:04:40.369 --> 01:04:46.530 this perspective is because it's such a radical individualistic philosophy 1067 01:04:46.590 --> 01:04:50.469 that's anti-human and because ultimately it ends up arguing that 1068 01:04:51.780 --> 01:04:54.840 the human itself is the problem, the technocrat ends up 1069 01:04:54.860 --> 01:04:58.940 divided against himself because he's still, no matter how much 1070 01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.039 of a, you know, Darth Vader he wants to be, 1071 01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:03.760 no matter how many limbs he has replaced, like he 1072 01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:06.059 can't get rid of that human element. So ultimately he 1073 01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:10.039 must then be suicidal because that's the logical conclusion of it. 1074 01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:12.039 Which I think it is. 1075 01:05:12.380 --> 01:05:15.139 Ultimately it is. Yeah. And so that's, I think that 1076 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.489 the biggest weak point is that it tries to to 1077 01:05:18.590 --> 01:05:20.989 think that there are no morals, there are no values, 1078 01:05:21.429 --> 01:05:26.820 there is no meaning, but humanity is bad and evil 1079 01:05:26.860 --> 01:05:29.480 and must be overcome, and we'll achieve this through some 1080 01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:32.159 form of transhumanism eventually somehow. So it's essentially kind of 1081 01:05:32.199 --> 01:05:37.099 a fake gospel, a fake promise of immortality, kind of 1082 01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:40.139 like what you see in Genesis with the serpent saying, 1083 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:42.920 you will be God. And so essentially the technocrats are 1084 01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:46.619 kind of trying to create that I wonder even if 1085 01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:50.289 amongst themselves, some of them realize that, you know, it's not, 1086 01:05:50.610 --> 01:05:52.730 we can't really do that. We're not actually, let me 1087 01:05:52.750 --> 01:05:55.449 give an example. For example, we, we mentioned data ISM 1088 01:05:55.510 --> 01:05:58.929 and Noah, you have all Harari, right? Who is a 1089 01:05:58.949 --> 01:06:01.590 big proponent of data ISM. I mean, even within his 1090 01:06:01.789 --> 01:06:06.489 own public statements, he will contradict himself between the two statements. 1091 01:06:06.710 --> 01:06:09.329 For example, there is no will, there is no consciousness. 1092 01:06:09.369 --> 01:06:12.269 It doesn't exist, but we'll upload your consciousness to the cloud. 1093 01:06:12.909 --> 01:06:15.199 So what are you going to upload? Those contradict, right? 1094 01:06:15.579 --> 01:06:18.960 So I wonder, like, are they perhaps that diluted, which 1095 01:06:19.019 --> 01:06:23.719 is possible, they're that contradictory, or do they know that, okay, look, 1096 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:25.599 we're not really going to be able to upload your content. 1097 01:06:25.619 --> 01:06:26.340 No, I think that. 1098 01:06:26.659 --> 01:06:29.159 But we'll sell this as a public... And I'll give 1099 01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:33.449 you another example. One of the technocrats who left, there's 1100 01:06:33.530 --> 01:06:35.210 a famous guy, I think 10 years ago, he wrote 1101 01:06:35.230 --> 01:06:37.869 a book. His name is Jason Lanier, and he was 1102 01:06:37.929 --> 01:06:43.619 a big programmer for the scrolling feed thing. And how 1103 01:06:43.659 --> 01:06:45.820 it would addict you and

that kind of stuff. And 1104 01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:47.840 he came out and said, look, this is all ultimately 1105 01:06:47.860 --> 01:06:50.619 going to destroy society. But at the end of his book, 1106 01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:53.650 and my wife Jamie covered that book, at the end 1107 01:06:53.670 --> 01:06:57.070 of his chapter critiquing Silicon Valley, he said, what we're 1108 01:06:57.110 --> 01:07:00.429 actually doing is creating an AI that we're going to 1109 01:07:00.469 --> 01:07:06.429 essentially sell as this sort of semi-divine thing. But it's not. 1110 01:07:06.690 --> 01:07:08.530 It's a scam, basically, is what he said. 1111 01:07:08.550 --> 01:07:11.000 Yeah. I think it's both. I think there is an 1112 01:07:11.059 --> 01:07:14.460 element of scam, and it's actually very dangerous. I think 1113 01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:16.389 the reason we brought it up, AI plays a huge 1114 01:07:16.489 --> 01:07:20.630 role in it, but this whole imprint, I think thesis 1115 01:07:20.690 --> 01:07:23.650 is very important for our audience to hear, because when 1116 01:07:23.670 --> 01:07:27.289 you're using CHI, and you can use it for different 1117 01:07:27.329 --> 01:07:30.940 purposes as a tool, but don't ever trick yourself into 1118 01:07:30.980 --> 01:07:34.139 thinking it's neutral. Whatever it is, it's not a neutral, 1119 01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:37.139 pure knowledge. The moment you start treating it this way, 1120 01:07:37.179 --> 01:07:41.099 you're just making the grave mistake, so it's absolutely no go. 1121 01:07:41.659 --> 01:07:44.039 And that's kind of, I feel like the strongest appeal 1122 01:07:44.059 --> 01:07:47.300 of this group, like the technocrats to even masses who are, 1123 01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:50.550 let's say, oh, you all this crazy religious number jumbos. 1124 01:07:50.610 --> 01:07:53.489 And in this group, let's say even Masons or Rhodesian 1125 01:07:53.570 --> 01:07:55.989 or like liberals can feel like all of them, like 1126 01:07:56.030 --> 01:07:59.789 you're all like ideologists, let's just leave and be pragmatic 1127 01:07:59.849 --> 01:08:02.269 and move ourselves to a better future. And that's why, 1128 01:08:02.309 --> 01:08:03.750 for example, you can say there is a lot of 1129 01:08:03.809 --> 01:08:07.769 technocrats in global South, so-called like in, Gulf countries, as 1130 01:08:07.809 --> 01:08:11.869 I said, China, all of them are very attracted with 1131 01:08:11.889 --> 01:08:15.170 this idea. We're not going to tell you which color 1132 01:08:15.210 --> 01:08:17.250 of rainbow you need to put in front of your school. 1133 01:08:17.270 --> 01:08:20.220 We don't really care about it. Let's just, let's say, 1134 01:08:20.239 --> 01:08:22.619 build effective data. Let's just collect the data and make 1135 01:08:22.659 --> 01:08:23.439 human life better. 1136 01:08:23.500 --> 01:08:23.939 Why not? 1137 01:08:24.220 --> 01:08:27.300 And you can see how its message becomes attractive both 1138 01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:30.100 for elites, but also for many people. We want to 1139 01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:33.340 kind of believe in illusion ourselves that we can move 1140 01:08:33.420 --> 01:08:36.560 beyond the spiritual struggle, which kind of underpins all of 1141 01:08:36.579 --> 01:08:40.060 the stories, but we can't. And that's kind of this illusion. 1142 01:08:40.180 --> 01:08:44.260 And yes, it can be just a pragmatic illusion, like capitalizing, bubble, money, 1143 01:08:44.779 --> 01:08:47.689 gaining power. Again, they're a very fresh tribe. As a 1144 01:08:47.970 --> 01:08:50.710 tribe with its own resources, they barely had none until 1145 01:08:50.729 --> 01:08:54.029 like last 50 years. They always had to do other 1146 01:08:54.229 --> 01:08:58.130 tribes' bidding. Nowadays, they're becoming at least something to be recognized. 1147 01:08:58.170 --> 01:09:01.699 So you can hear this is just a pure pragmatist approach. 1148 01:09:02.140 --> 01:09:04.920 But I also believe on some level, it's not a scam. 1149 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.159 I do believe on some levels as people want to 1150 01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:10.279 believe it will be possible to achieve some level of 1151 01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:14.760 consciousness upload or like this form of digital immortality of 1152 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:19.579 my self. And maybe, yes, it will still have my imprint. Obviously, 1153 01:09:19.619 --> 01:09:21.899 it will have my imprint. So it won't be truly new. 1154 01:09:21.920 --> 01:09:24.199 So I think they're ready to accept among themselves, yes, 1155 01:09:24.270 --> 01:09:27.689 it's not truly neutral, but they want to believe that, say, 1156 01:09:27.729 --> 01:09:31.689 we will be able to achieve immortality through technology, which, yeah, 1157 01:09:31.810 --> 01:09:36.289 pretty clear what kind of spiritual idea it all comes 1158 01:09:36.329 --> 01:09:38.430 down to. Yeah, do you want to add anything? 1159 01:09:38.710 --> 01:09:42.039 No, just a great discussion, and I think, you know, 1160 01:09:43.130 --> 01:09:45.260 to bring it back to the esoteric occult side of it, 1161 01:09:45.350 --> 01:09:49.310 you know, you have the idea of the singularity being 1162 01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:55.060 something that earlier hermeticists and philosophers and even Kabbalists had, 1163 01:09:55.159 --> 01:09:58.579 had proposed this idea that reality itself is essentially moving 1164 01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:04.630 towards ultimate synthesis. Yeah. Uh, Hegel, for example, talking about 1165 01:10:04.649 --> 01:10:06.149 thesis and to this, and then sort of, you get, 1166 01:10:06.189 --> 01:10:08.939 you get a higher, uh, synthesis, uh, And ultimately everything 1167 01:10:08.979 --> 01:10:12.060 moving towards some omega point where all of reality is 1168 01:10:12.300 --> 01:10:17.359 self-conscious that it is self-conscious. So even non-conscious things become conscious. 1169 01:10:18.260 --> 01:10:22.970 Ultimately in the omega point.

Later weirdos like Teilhard de 1170 01:10:22.979 --> 01:10:25.470 Chardin who actually will tie us into the Vatican side 1171 01:10:25.510 --> 01:10:27.909 of things here in a moment. But Teilhard also talked 1172 01:10:27.989 --> 01:10:31.210 about the noosphere which would actually be influential on some 1173 01:10:31.229 --> 01:10:33.689 of the people present. proposing the idea of the internet, 1174 01:10:34.229 --> 01:10:37.029 that essentially this would all sort of somehow merge into 1175 01:10:37.069 --> 01:10:40.170 some great overmind and that we would all be sort 1176 01:10:40.189 --> 01:10:42.060 of linked into this. And at that point we would, 1177 01:10:42.149 --> 01:10:47.039 we would achieve some type of singularity or, uh, end 1178 01:10:47.100 --> 01:10:49.979 point of history. So, uh, and this was what the 1179 01:10:50.020 --> 01:10:53.779 most famous transhumanist of the last couple of decades, Ray Kurzweil, 1180 01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.789 who wrote two different books, uh, rise to spiritual machines 1181 01:10:56.890 --> 01:10:59.380 and the singularity. in the last couple of decades. And 1182 01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:03.640 he essentially posits a lot of the same ethos that 1183 01:11:03.659 --> 01:11:06.520 I think it's summed up the best in his statement 1184 01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:09.220 where he says, I don't believe in God yet. 1185 01:11:10.279 --> 01:11:13.060 Meaning that- We will create our own God. Yeah, we 1186 01:11:13.090 --> 01:11:16.010 will create our own God, which is, again, we can 1187 01:11:16.069 --> 01:11:19.810 find example of this idea back like thousands of years ago. 1188 01:11:20.250 --> 01:11:23.609 It's not new idea, but the idea is that we 1189 01:11:23.770 --> 01:11:29.970 human will create a God as- Spiritually very understandable. And why? 1190 01:11:30.090 --> 01:11:32.750 Because if we create it, we can control it. So 1191 01:11:32.850 --> 01:11:37.770 it's a rejection of God as actually true Godhood. Orthodox 1192 01:11:38.189 --> 01:11:41.909 Jesus Christ, God the Son. Because the idea is like 1193 01:11:41.970 --> 01:11:44.119 you didn't create it, so you have a relationship and 1194 01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:47.659 this relationship is asymmetrical and you need to humble yourself 1195 01:11:47.739 --> 01:11:52.840 and you need to humble yourself in front of somebody 1196 01:11:52.899 --> 01:11:55.899 you didn't choose. And for these people... like in this 1197 01:11:55.939 --> 01:11:59.989 kind of satanical Luciferian rebellion. No, I won't humble myself 1198 01:12:00.369 --> 01:12:03.869 in front of somebody I didn't choose, I didn't create, 1199 01:12:03.970 --> 01:12:06.989 I didn't make, etc. So if it's the God I made, 1200 01:12:07.010 --> 01:12:11.210 I will become a slave later. Because ultimately what I 1201 01:12:11.270 --> 01:12:14.279 want is still to be a slave to myself, like 1202 01:12:14.380 --> 01:12:16.859 just through a proxy. It means that on a practical level, 1203 01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:19.699 if I'm just a slave to myself from passion forms, no, 1204 01:12:19.720 --> 01:12:23.810 that's too... let me say, babushka type of argument. But 1205 01:12:24.170 --> 01:12:27.359 if I need to humble myself through the evil spiritual 1206 01:12:27.420 --> 01:12:30.720 machine I created, okay, that's kosher. 1207 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:33.039 Yeah, well, he calls it the age of the spiritual machine. 1208 01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:35.939 Yeah, so yeah. So we'll create a spiritual machine and 1209 01:12:35.960 --> 01:12:38.079 then we will become their slaves and this will be good. 1210 01:12:38.100 --> 01:12:41.350 I know. Harari says the same thing too. He says 1211 01:12:41.390 --> 01:12:44.989 that the silicon sages will be the AIs sort of 1212 01:12:45.050 --> 01:12:48.130 walking around and we'll treat them sort of like a Jesus. 1213 01:12:48.609 --> 01:12:51.079 We'll go to that and he says, And it'll be 1214 01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:55.229 better than the actual historical Jesus because the Silicon Sage 1215 01:12:55.689 --> 01:12:58.550 will have all of the religious texts integrated into one. 1216 01:12:58.590 --> 01:13:01.270 Which is stupid from the perspective. So you're seeing God 1217 01:13:01.289 --> 01:13:04.869 the Son, omnipotent God, and omninoledgeable doesn't know all of 1218 01:13:04.890 --> 01:13:05.310 these texts. 1219 01:13:05.590 --> 01:13:08.609 But also the idea is that, well, if you just 1220 01:13:08.729 --> 01:13:11.010 know all the texts, then you... Yeah, but all the 1221 01:13:11.029 --> 01:13:14.289 texts contradict. Yeah, like... Knowing them all doesn't mean that 1222 01:13:14.310 --> 01:13:16.189 you're even necessarily getting a better advantage. 1223 01:13:16.229 --> 01:13:21.000 It's absolutely contradictory. The moment you look That's, I think, 1224 01:13:21.100 --> 01:13:24.300 behind all of this enchantment and behind all of this real... 1225 01:13:24.250 --> 01:13:26.149 It's very mystical, is what I'm trying to say. 1226 01:13:26.170 --> 01:13:28.409 Power, number power. Yeah, yeah. 1227 01:13:28.449 --> 01:13:32.229 It's actually very stupid. I'm sorry. This idea of singularity 1228 01:13:32.250 --> 01:13:34.939 is stupid. This idea that the meaning comes out of 1229 01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:39.760 quantity is stupid. Quantity in itself has no meaning. It's... 1230 01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:44.069 Philosophically speaking, you can't... There is no... there is either 1231 01:13:44.149 --> 01:13:48.630 embedded quality in something, but then its embedded quality has 1232 01:13:48.649 --> 01:13:52.939 its different nature type. And this idea of emergence of 1233 01:13:53.069 --> 01:13:58.520 meaning out of just meaningless quantity is absurd if you 1234 01:13:58.539 --> 01:14:02.699 think about it, especially in contrast to different other traditions 1235 01:14:02.979 --> 01:14:05.220 who are clearly better addressing this problem. 1236 01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:09.069 Well, that's why

the technocrats, the modern-day ones, They are 1237 01:14:09.130 --> 01:14:12.939 very into science fiction and fantasy precisely because not only 1238 01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:17.140 do they appropriate it for their companies, Palantir out of 1239 01:14:17.180 --> 01:14:17.920 Lord of the Rings. 1240 01:14:18.180 --> 01:14:19.739 And the real Palantir. 1241 01:14:19.819 --> 01:14:27.010 You know, Yarvin does the same thing. But also, if 1242 01:14:27.069 --> 01:14:29.569 I think about, you mentioned, what was the guy here? 1243 01:14:29.590 --> 01:14:30.149 Chedrovitsky. 1244 01:14:30.210 --> 01:14:33.170 Yeah. I wonder if that could be comparable to, are 1245 01:14:33.189 --> 01:14:35.989 you familiar with Frank Herbert? The American writer, right. So 1246 01:14:36.050 --> 01:14:39.170 he was also a very high-level GOP speechwriter. So he 1247 01:14:39.210 --> 01:14:42.529 was very tied into politics. And it's funny because being 1248 01:14:42.590 --> 01:14:47.310 this sort of arch neocon, writing supposedly sort of conservative 1249 01:14:47.350 --> 01:14:50.949 political theory for the politicians, at the same time he's 1250 01:14:51.020 --> 01:14:56.319 writing these novels that describe very in-depth geopolitical insights, which 1251 01:14:56.399 --> 01:15:00.600 are surprisingly, as I've gotten very deep into the series, 1252 01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:09.880 they're very... It's basically all evolutionary process, but it's anti-tech 1253 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:13.460 because at the end of the day, they discover that 1254 01:15:14.140 --> 01:15:19.300 technology is a control mechanism because there's this period when 1255 01:15:19.420 --> 01:15:23.960 AI essentially enslaves humanity. Humanity has to overcome AI to 1256 01:15:23.979 --> 01:15:24.560 then achieve. 1257 01:15:26.899 --> 01:15:29.439 Its own evolutionary sense. 1258 01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:32.140 It's so kick-ass. 1259 01:15:32.260 --> 01:15:35.619 Absolutely. And so, you know, Paul Atreides ends up believing 1260 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:39.470 for a time that he's the Messiah. He thinks he's 1261 01:15:39.510 --> 01:15:42.569 the Mahdi. He thinks he's the Kwisatz Haderach. And then 1262 01:15:42.649 --> 01:15:47.069 eventually he discovers, I was deluded. I went into a, 1263 01:15:47.069 --> 01:15:51.600 you know, universal religious crusade. And then what ends up 1264 01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:55.729 happening is that the, the, future where we get this 1265 01:15:55.829 --> 01:15:58.510 reign of peace as humans are beginning to evolve and 1266 01:15:58.529 --> 01:16:03.159 develop prescience is when his son his grandson or his 1267 01:16:03.380 --> 01:16:06.359 uh his son melds with a worm yeah yeah and 1268 01:16:06.380 --> 01:16:08.800 so this is part of the evolutionary genetic. 1269 01:16:08.220 --> 01:16:09.939 Yeah i think that's called like you know it even 1270 01:16:10.020 --> 01:16:12.439 goes beyond like but there's you can weirdly yeah i 1271 01:16:12.439 --> 01:16:14.590

think there is a parallel i'm not sure well i'm just. 1272 01:16:14.489 --> 01:16:17.069 Pointing out that the reason that he's relevant is that 1273 01:16:18.069 --> 01:16:21.050 on the one hand he's neocon we're supposed to think 1274 01:16:21.069 --> 01:16:23.810 that islam is the enemy but in his fiction so 1275 01:16:23.850 --> 01:16:26.550 his novels the future is the catholic church evolves into 1276 01:16:26.609 --> 01:16:28.750 islam because they merge into this weird. 1277 01:16:28.670 --> 01:16:30.550 But remember the fight is the end of the story 1278 01:16:30.590 --> 01:16:33.310 like the whole dune cycle the whole golden path uh 1279 01:16:33.350 --> 01:16:36.699 path thing uh it ends up effectively with like uh 1280 01:16:37.260 --> 01:16:40.460 and then we become and move into basically this idea 1281 01:16:40.479 --> 01:16:43.539 of endless game because the idea is he spent like 1282 01:16:43.539 --> 01:16:50.430 10 000 years of being a warm effectively training humanity, 1283 01:16:50.510 --> 01:16:52.869 which then ends up killing him, so he ends up 1284 01:16:52.890 --> 01:16:55.569 with his son as this big tyrant, basically. But this 1285 01:16:55.630 --> 01:16:57.869 kind of ends up being his big sacrifice, so he 1286 01:16:57.890 --> 01:17:00.590 chooses to be the tyrant everybody hates for 10,000 years, 1287 01:17:00.949 --> 01:17:04.090 so later humanity can move another step forward and just 1288 01:17:04.149 --> 01:17:07.729 explode into infinite, into space, into different. 1289 01:17:07.770 --> 01:17:09.029 Into transhumanism, yeah. 1290 01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:12.159 But it's kind of... infinite transhumanism so it's not a 1291 01:17:12.279 --> 01:17:15.640 point of omega it's like infinite transhumanism like with no 1292 01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:17.359 end point and that's kind of i think it's a 1293 01:17:17.390 --> 01:17:19.369 big actually in finale he speaks a lot that the 1294 01:17:19.390 --> 01:17:21.670 golden pass has no specifically yes there's. 1295 01:17:21.550 --> 01:17:24.109 No end point so that's tying into what you're saying 1296 01:17:24.130 --> 01:17:25.970 that's what i'm saying like the the there's this sort 1297 01:17:26.010 --> 01:17:28.710 of but what's worshipped this process. 1298 01:17:28.409 --> 01:17:32.960 Yes wow Never would I have thought that Shadrabits can 1299 01:17:33.340 --> 01:17:35.760 have so many things in common. 1300 01:17:35.859 --> 01:17:38.729 The further I got into the novels, the more I 1301 01:17:38.750 --> 01:17:40.670 was realizing, like, because when I read the first one, 1302 01:17:40.689 --> 01:17:43.470 you think, oh, this is a sort of like alternate 1303 01:17:43.489 --> 01:17:44.529 version of a messiah. 1304 01:17:44.670 --> 01:17:44.909 Yeah. 1305 01:17:45.189 --> 01:17:46.590 And then as those stories progress. 1306 01:17:46.689 --> 01:17:51.020 It's like, no, it's not. It's not. And wow. Well, okay, 1307 01:17:51.090 --> 01:17:54.289 on the topic of Messiah, churches, and jihads. 1308 01:17:55.829 --> 01:17:56.609 Butlerian jihad. 1309 01:17:56.689 --> 01:17:59.529 Yeah, butlerian jihad, yeah. Let's make a comment here and 1310 01:17:59.609 --> 01:18:02.770 move into our next series. Let's talk about, at the 1311 01:18:02.800 --> 01:18:05.100 same time, all the new player at this scene. Let's 1312 01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:06.079 talk about the Vatican. 1313 01:18:06.979 --> 01:18:09.899 What do you think about that? It's not just evolving 1314 01:18:09.939 --> 01:18:13.140 of the theology. Now a natural law can evolve. 1315 01:18:13.300 --> 01:18:13.720 Of course, yeah. 1316 01:18:14.010 --> 01:18:17.029 Because what was, for example, the death penalty for many, 1317 01:18:17.050 --> 01:18:21.289 many centuries was considered part of natural justice in Roman theology. 1318 01:18:21.989 --> 01:18:24.649 Now that is contrary to the gospel. And now the 1319 01:18:24.670 --> 01:18:28.449 papists can even say even natural law kind of has 1320 01:18:28.489 --> 01:18:29.189 to change a bit.