Spec-Driven Development and the Future of AI IDEs with AWS’s Kiro - JSJ 693의 전체 녹취록

00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.840 You create a specification for what you want. That could 74 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.959 be a brand new application, it could be a feature, 75 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.399 it could be a massive refactor in your code base. 76 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:24.639 But you go through this process where you define the requirements, 77 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.399 the use cases, user stories. You can have the AI 78 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:31.240 generate all of those, because I remember writing these by 79 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:34.360 hand ten fifteen years ago and it wasn't that much fun. 80 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:38.480 And then you go through a process of working through 81 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.759 the technical design with the AI and finally what tasks 82 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.000 that breaks down to, and then you have a lot 83 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.199 of control over steering the actual implementation of those individual tasks. 84 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:52.920 And we've heard from folks that this has enabled them 85 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:56.160 to at the end of the day, produce much better 86 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.040 quality code and actually get to what they wanted. I 87 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.279 said of this very frustrating experience with vicuding, we were 88 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:06.720 hearing about where it's like you go ten cycles and 89 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.920 that it's almost like the AI is not getting it 90 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:09.879 getting what you want. 91 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.720 Yeah, I've experienced that a little bit. I've been using 92 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.959 cursor and a co pilot. I'm depending on what i'm 93 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:21.519 working on. And you talked about it breaking it down 94 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:24.959 into lists, And it's funny because cursor will give me 95 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:26.600 a these are the things I'm going to do, and 96 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:28.800 then it'll check them off as it goes right. And yeah, 97 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.759 it doesn't always get it right. If it's something simple, 98 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:34.519 probably the vast majority of the time it gets that right. 99 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.959 But yeah, the second it gets complicated, it's like, Okay, 100 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.639 this isn't working. Sometimes I'm still not quite sure what 101 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.759 it did or how to fix it, and so I'll 102 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:48.120 ask it to fix it, and then it still doesn't work. Yeah, 103 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:49.920 So I get that. It sounds like this is a 104 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:53.000 little bit more in depth than sort of the process of, 105 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:55.639 you know, giving it a single prompt and then having 106 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:57.639 it come up with I'm going to do this, and 107 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:58.879 then I'm going to do that, and then I'm going 108

00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:01.120 to do that and then I'll be done. 109 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.040 Yeah, and it still starts with a single prompt. But 110 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:06.759 one of the things that I've noticed is that it's 111 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:09.839 really hard for us to describe what's in our head 112 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.079 from the get go, from a blank prompt text input box. 113 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.319 And so often what I find is that there's this 114 00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:21.160 iterative process of effectively the AI trying to guess what 115 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:25.439 I meant by this simple sentence and then being able 116 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.360 to iterate on that and say, no, no, that's not 117 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.000 exactly what I meant. I actually meant this, or oh, 118 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.360 that's an interesting idea I didn't even think of. And 119 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:37.360 so that process of creating this spec is really helpful 120 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.759 for refining what it is you want. Often if you 121 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.439 go to Vibe coding, it's kind of like you know, 122 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.319 when you have an engineer who's a bit a bit fresh, 123 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:52.160 and they always jump right to writing the code before 124 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.319 actually thinking about the problem. That's kind of the Vibe 125 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:59.040 coding experience is the AI jumped into writing the code 126 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:02.199 before kind of understand the problem. And so this spec 127 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:06.519 driven development helps you to kind of make sure you're 128 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:08.720 on the same page and that you know everything that's 129 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:10.959 in your head of what you're thinking about the application 130 00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:15.040 or the future is actually out on paper without necessarily 131 00:07:15.079 --> 00:07:17.600 having to type it out all yourself. You kind of 132 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.720 just go through this iterative process of the AI kind 133 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:23.240 of guesses writes the spec for you, and then you say, no, no, 134 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:24.519 that's not exactly what I meant. 135 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.000 Yeah. It sounds a little bit like the process I 136 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:31.319 went through more as a freelancer than really is a 137 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.120 full time employee, where you know, I'd have the client 138 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:37.160 come to me and say, hey, we want this feature, 139 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.920 and then I'd ask questions, do you want it to 140 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:40.279 do this? Do you want it to do that? And 141 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.560 you want it to look like this? Do you want 142 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.480 it to blah blah blah, right, and then there was 143 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.560 further iteration once we got going where it was okay, 144 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.800 I have a rough version of this, and then they 145 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.000 go look at it. Oh, no, this isn't quite what 146 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.040 I wanted. And so by the time we're done, yeah, 147 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.160 I had a fully fleshed out understanding of what they 148 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:57.480 wanted and could build it. And it sounds like that's 149 00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.199 what this is doing. 150 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.079 Yeah, And I love that idea of the rough version 151 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.199 of it, is this what you wanted? Because so often 152 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.279 we don't know what we want until we actually see 153 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:10.839 it when it comes to application development. And you know, 154 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:15.959 we've seen across moving from Waterfall, where we tried to 155 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:18.959 you know, have all the requirements ironed out at the beginning, 156 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.480 and that never really worked because those were not Those 157 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.279 were never the actual requirements that you ended up with 158 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.120 at the end once you saw the application. We went 159 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:31.279 to agile, where we're attempting to move into sprints, where 160 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:36.240 we have some capability of refining those requirements as we build. 161 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:42.200 But even with something like agile development, it still takes 162 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.960 so long to get to something that's working that you 163 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:47.360 can actually show to a customer, show to a user. 164 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:49.480 So it's going to take multiple months. And one of 165 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:53.440 the powerful things about AI assisted coding is you can 166 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:57.919 get to that tangible result so much faster. You can 167 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:02.240 build entire application may not work exactly right, it may 168 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:05.200 not be exactly what you had pictured in your head 169 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.759 to begin with, but you can actually play with it. 170 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.000 You can you can touch it, use it, and go 171 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:12.960 back to your requirements and say, oh, actually this this 172 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.720 part wasn't exactly right, or oh we forgot this, let's 173 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.919 change these a little bit and regenerate. And so that's 174 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:26.279 been really powerful for getting into kind of prototype driven development, 175 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.799 and I've found that that ends up with a better 176 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.000 product at the end of the day because you are 177 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.200 able to really really use

the product very early on 178 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:37.519 while you're still forming the requirements. 179 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:43.799 Really yeah, I'm kind of imagining how this flows. I'm 180 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.759 a little curious once it has the spec if it's 181 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:49.480 something that's a little more complicated. One of the things 182 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.759 that I've experienced more with Cursor is that it will 183 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.879 go and it will do the whole job right, and 184 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:59.320 so it gets done and I'm like, I have a 185 00:09:59.360 --> 00:09:59.879 lot of stuff. 186 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 187 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:05.279 Does it do that or does it kind of so 188 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.879 march through a piece at a time there too. 189 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:13.480 We call that supervised versus autopilot mode. So sometimes you know, 190 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.279 you just want to get something done right. You just 191 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.120 want a really simple tool and it doesn't need to 192 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.000 be exactly right. And I find that autopilot mode is 193 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.440 going to be the fastest way. That means exactly what 194 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.879 you just said. It's just going to plow through the work. 195 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.919 It's going to completely build the entire thing. Supervised mode 196 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.039 is where you want to give feedback one step at 197 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.159 a time. So inspec mode, what you can do is 198 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.879 it generates a task liss similar to what you were 199 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:47.320 saying that the AI says, here's what I'm going to do, 200 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:52.519 but it will actually stop for your feedback after each 201 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:57.240 individual task, and so you can say, whoa, whoa, you 202 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:01.840 are starting off on the wrong foot here, let's rewind 203 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.919 and get this right. And I find that that does 204 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.879 end up with more of the code that I already 205 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:12.200 wanted because I'm steering it along the way. In between 206 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:17.120 these little individual tests. I will say that I've noticed 207 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.000 AI models really like to do a lot of work. 208 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.559 And so what I find is when they when they 209 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:32.159 generate these spec files, it's following all the software engineering 210 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:35.919 best practices. It's got high unit test coverage, it's got 211 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:39.399 integration tests. It might sometimes say I'm going to try 212 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:44.639 to deploy this before before deciding I'm done. And that's 213 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:48.480 really great if you are building a production app. Sometimes 214 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.960 I'm just building a little side project or I'm building 215 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:54.000 a little utility that I just kind of need to 216 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:57.759 get done and I don't need integration tests. So being 217 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:01.080 able to review that list of tasks for it goes 218 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:03.360 off and does a lot more work than I wanted 219 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:04.840 it to do is also really helpful. 220 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.679 Nice I feel like it's like an eager intern. It 221 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:13.720 just wants, it wants to help you so much and 222 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:17.039 do everything for you, and you can definitely be like, no, 223 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.240 let's supervise this one at a time. YEA, let's list 224 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:23.279 delete things we don't need. We don't need three thousand 225 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:24.519 integration tests. 226 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.799 Definitely. I love the eager intern analogy. You sent me 227 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.759 for coffee and I came back with doughnuts and sandwiches. 228 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:35.399 And the whole coffee machine did. 229 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:41.799 Your dry clean. So so do you use it now 230 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:43.000 or go ahead? 231 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:45.519 I was going to say so in reading through the 232 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:47.879 instruction chareing what you were just talking about. It sounds 233 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.679 like there's a lot of it's like dock writing, almost 234 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:52.879 like you're planning and figuring out I'm going to do this. 235 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.840 How much of it? How much does it actually write 236 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:59.440 code versus just doing the planning? Is it all of 237 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:02.799 the above? I mean could say, for instance, if you 238 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:06.279 are a design challenge back in engineer like me or 239 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.600 a code writer like me who has no design chops whatsoever, 240 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:12.440 you know, and I actually have a project I'm working 241 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.559 on that I really would love to do, this can 242 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.320 do something like come up with at least a somewhat 243 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:20.960 workable UI design based on what you're doing, you know, 244 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.639 in terms of page layouts and elements, and then you 245 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:27.919 naw bar structured tables formed that kind of stuff as well. 246 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.720 Yeah, it can both write the specs and write the 247 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.960 actual code for you. And the technical design step is 248 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:40.000 really helpful for some of the UX as well, and 249 00:13:40.080 -->

00:13:42.799 kind of the code architecture, so you can say, what 250 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.639 front end framework do you want to use, what kind 251 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.279 of component library do you want to use? You know, 252 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.559 compared to I mean when I first started out in 253 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:58.200 the industry, I was literally writing waterfall requirements documents. What 254 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.279 I like is that it's not so much about you 255 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:06.919 writing these documents as they are kind of artifacts for 256 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.559 a shared understanding between you and the and the AI, 257 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.440 and so you don't have to actually write any of it. 258 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.720 You can keep prompting that, you can keep prompting in 259 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.000 KIRO until you have the requirements that you want, or 260 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.120 you can you know, kind of edit them yourself where 261 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.919 need be. But it's really helpful and really the whole 262 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.480 life cycle of kind of ideation and then design and 263 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.320 then actually writing the code. 264 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:35.799 Yeah, I'll just jump in. I assumed that I guess 265 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.000 I've been working from the assumption that it's as capable 266 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.000 as any of the other systems out there, right, So, 267 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:43.200 like I said, cursor and copilots seem to be able 268 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:45.919 to do the UI stuff just fine, because I have 269 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:49.480 the same problem, right, I work almost exclusively on the 270 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.159 back end. In fact, for my full time job, I'm 271 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.200 basically building APIs and then somebody else is doing all 272 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:58.840 of the front end work. And so when I'm working 273 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.679 on my own projects, yeah, I tend to let it 274 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.960 do the UI UX stuff and it does fine. I mean, 275 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:10.440 it's not always beautiful or whatever. But the thing is 276 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.399 is I can more easily than tell it I want 277 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:17.000 this over here, or hey, this isn't working quite the 278 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.840 way I expect. And a lot of times again back 279 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:21.519 to the point of you have to see it before 280 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.279 you know what you want. Like I'll go in and 281 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.559 I'll just do something instinctively and I didn't tell it 282 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.120 I needed that, But then I'm like, oh, I need 283 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:31.759 it so that when I click here, it does this 284 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:35.200 and so. And it's usually pretty good about that. 285 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.240 And you can also give it. You can give it 286 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.360 kind of a Napkin diagram of what you want the 287 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.559 UI to look like, and it will actually translate that 288 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:49.600 into requirements or design statements. So that's pretty cool as well. 289 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.840 So one thing that I'm wondering having used. Like I said, 290 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.600 I've used Cursor and I've used Copilot. I'm working on 291 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.919 figuring out how to get Copilot to work with Emacs. 292 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.960 So I like that a little more than Visual Studio code. 293 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.679 But Cursor's based on DS code. Is that is that 294 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:08.919 what you did with kiro or is kiro something else? 295 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:13.200 It's based on code OSS similar to the Yeah, so 296 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:16.360 it feels very familiar. But we were also able to, 297 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:21.159 for example, with this this speck layout. One of our 298 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:26.159 hopes is to a little bit take the focus of 299 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.360 the environment away from just the code. So one of 300 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.320 the things that I noticed as we were working with 301 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.000 code OSM is it's interesting the way that the colors 302 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:42.080 are where code is very much the focus. So in 303 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.639 that I use a light a light mode, and all 304 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:50.200 everything in the UI is gray except for the code, 305 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.000 which is in white white background. And so we were 306 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.559 we were looking at this and thinking, you know, actually, 307 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.639 you don't want necessarily the code to be the focus 308 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.519 in your ID, and I think we're not We're not 309 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.039 quite there yet. I think our first step is with 310 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.319 this kind of dedicated UX around spec based development, where 311 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.720 the focus is on the spec the design and the tasks. 312 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.000 But I think my hope at least is that the 313 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.960 ide becomes a place it is not just about writing code. 314 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:26.480 It becomes a place that is more tailored around, you know, 315 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.960 defining what you want, and then the code is is 316 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:31.480 kind of an artifact that comes from that. 317 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:42.920 MM I'm trying to imagine to myself what that looks like. Also, 318 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.160 you're the only person I know that uses a light mode. 319 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:50.039 I just don't like staring at black all day. 320

00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.400 So can we maybe go at a high level? I 321 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.359 don't know how detailed do you want to get. Granted, 322 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.480 everybody can't really see the ID since we're not screen 323 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.480 sharing with you can just sort of walk some steps through. 324 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:06.160 Let's say you're starting a. 325 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.680 Project completely from scratch and you want to build some 326 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.680 you know, maybe something more complex than a two do app. 327 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.920 You know, who knows what are the steps? Because now, 328 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:16.599 for instance, if I come, I'm looking at the ID 329 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.799 right now, and it looks like you have two different 330 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.240 ways possible ways to start, it gives you the option 331 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.880 to be the vibe respect right, So one is chatting 332 00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:28.599 and one is planning first, So it looks like those 333 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.200 are two different ways you can start. 334 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:32.359 Am I reading that correctly? 335 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.119 That's exactly right? Yeah. 336 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:37.680 Okay, So let's say I want to start with the 337 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.319 vibe mode. So what am I doing or how what 338 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:42.400 are the steps I'm taking. 339 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.079 That's vibe coding, as I think we're all kind of 340 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:50.519 familiar with. Now you're you're prompting the AI to generate code, 341 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:52.920 it's going to you know, if you do have any example, 342 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.920 any existing code in there, it's going to take a 343 00:18:55.960 --> 00:18:58.599 look at that and bring it into the context. But 344 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.039 if not, it's just going to start writing code for you. 345 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:06.559 Right, So there's this chat panel down here, so this 346 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.640 is where you start saying, hey, yeah, this is my code. 347 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:11.920 I want to add this feature that's right, and make 348 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:13.880 it look like this. This is my stack, you know, 349 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.400 and I'm using you with you know, a level in 350 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:20.039 the back end with nursia, jas and tailwind, et cetera. 351 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.839 That's my preferred stack, yep. And then it's going to 352 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.720 start generating what is it going to start generating documents 353 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.279 there that with the output, you know. 354 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.359 Yeah, so in vibe mode, it's just going to start 355 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.839 writing code. It's that that very familiar experience I was 356 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.160 seeing before, where it's just going to jump right into 357 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.519 writing the code and then kind of iterate from there 358 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.359 of trying to get the AI to update the code 359 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.000 into what it is you want it to build. And 360 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:50.400 so I find that that's very useful. I find that 361 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:53.839 the so the Cure team built uses kiro to build kiro, 362 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:59.319 and I find kind of across the team that we 363 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.960 tend to jump into vibe mode if we know exactly 364 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:04.880 what we want. You know, we know the code that 365 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.400 needs to be written. We're just kind of steering the 366 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:12.160 AI to generate that code. And it's a pretty simple, 367 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:16.720 simple problem. But if we don't know what we want, 368 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:20.440 we don't know exactly what code needs to be written, 369 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:24.200 will jump into spec mode or if it's just a 370 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:30.720 more complex problem. And I think that that takes a 371 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.720 little bit of intuition today, It kind of takes a 372 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.160 little bit of playing, and it requires knowing what do 373 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.039 I think the AI is going to be good at 374 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.519 kind of one shot right vibe mode to get what 375 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.319 you want. You want it to be pretty close to 376 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:47.319 one shot. You don't want to have to do a 377 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.240 ton of prompt iterations. But if it, you know, you 378 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:53.720 kind of get this intuition of what is simple enough 379 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.880 for me to give to vibe mode and then anything 380 00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.039 more complex than that that needs to be broken down 381 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.759 into individuals or they don't exactly know what I need yet. 382 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.079 It is a really good starting place for a spec. 383 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.960 And maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but as we're using bimode, 384 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.400 as Claire said, there's it reads the files, but you 385 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:17.680 can't create steering files or kind of the same thing 386 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.079 you might see and other code editors like rules files 387 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:24.680 that you can set up so it follows certain patterns 388 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.039 as you're vibe coding back and forth. And you can 389 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:32.519 even have here generate these steering files for you to 390 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:33.160 start off with. 391 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.759 Yeah. I find that that's really the first thing to 392 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:42.079 do

if you're starting in an existing project is generate 393 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.720 the steering files because it creates this really great summary 394 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.759 of the code base and what it is and what 395 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:51.920 it does and what the architecture is. That really helps 396 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.680 you to save on contact space, so it's not having 397 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.240 to read a ton of files every time. 398 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:01.480 Yeah, outputs better code. 399 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.799 I feel like, Yeah, so a couple of other questions 400 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.319 that I have, I'm going to change the topic a 401 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:13.759 little bit. So both Copilot and Cursor allow you to 402 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:18.119 change the model you're using. I'm assuming that that's the 403 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.000 case here too. I can say I want to use 404 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.960 Claud and then okay, Claud's not cutting it for me. 405 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.240 I want to use GPT or is there some kind of 406 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:26.359 auto selection that you do? 407 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.000 Currently the model that's available in the product is clouds 408 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:32.440 on it for. 409 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.319 Okay, and I can't change that. 410 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:42.640 That's right, But we currently in previews, so things change. 411 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:48.400 Right, Yeah, and only get better, folks. And then the 412 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.559 other question I had was, so both those other systems 413 00:22:51.559 --> 00:22:54.759 that I've used you get for what you pay. So 414 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.559 my employer is paying for Copilot, and so that's why 415 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.799 I'm using cursorund my own stuff is because get hub 416 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.400 didn't give me a good way to differentiate between credits 417 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.119 that I pay for and credits that they pay for. 418 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:13.839 So I've looked at setting up a separate getub account 419 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.640 just for their stuff. And then anyway, but I guess 420 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.039 my question is, so you always have a limit on 421 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.599 the number of credits or premium credits you can use? 422 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.359 Is that the same for Kiro? I looked at the pricing, 423 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:26.960 patient looks like that's more or less the case. 424 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:31.400 But yeah, we have I guess four different tiers free 425 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:36.359 pro pro blust power and very similar to other pricing 426 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:39.039 plans you've seen in the space, you get a certain 427 00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:42.279 number requests or credits that come with that, and then 428 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:45.359 over once you go beyond that for the month, you 429 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.240 can enable per request or for credit pricing. 430 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.279 And since we are in preview, like Claire said, things 431 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.799 are still in flux, things might be changing. We have 432 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:00.519 been listening really closely. You have a discord community and 433 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.440 there's Reddit communities, lots of different communities we're looking at 434 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.519 hearing the feedback has some really great people in those 435 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.720 threads every day listening to that. So we're constantly listening 436 00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:12.000 and so there may be updates, may not be updates, 437 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.519 but stay tuned on that and check our blog on 438 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.400 all the pricing details. Since it's in preview right now, 439 00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.559 it's under a wait list. So one thing is we 440 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:24.480 had lots of great feedback when we first launched it. 441 00:24:24.519 --> 00:24:26.079 We had actually so many people want to try it, 442 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:28.480 we put up a wait list and so we're slowly 443 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.559 going through that. Weitlist, adding more people on and then 444 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.279 we'll have more information about that soon. 445 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.039 So one other question that I have with this, I 446 00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.359 feel like i'm hogging the mic, but I'm going to 447 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:45.079 keep asking my questions. So I'm kind of imagining. So 448 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.559 the Vibe mode sounds a lot like what I've seen 449 00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:50.799 other people doing with the other agent systems, right, and 450 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:54.079 so you know, I don't necessarily see a major advantage 451 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.680 one way or the other between this and those. But 452 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.920 then you've got that spec mode, which is something that 453 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.759 is different, right, And so I'm I'm trying to think 454 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:08.839 to myself, Okay, when will that really really deeply pay off? 455 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.240 Is it those super complex features or tasks? Are there 456 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:14.839 other things that I'm just not even thinking of where 457 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:18.079 you're going to say, oh, well, we tried this with 458 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.599 our you know, with our workload, and it made a 459 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.200 major difference here and maybe not so much of a 460 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:24.839 difference on some of the other stuff we did. 461 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.759 I mean, in my experience, I would say I get 462 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.680 higher quality code at the end of spec mode. With 463 00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:36.960 five

mode, I find that either I have to put 464 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.079 some of the practices in steering rules, like you have 465 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.680 to read, you have to write tests, you have to 466 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.200 run those tests. I find that at the end of 467 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.799 the spec mode, the AI has already done that for me. 468 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.599 And like I was saying, sometimes that's overkill. When it 469 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:56.359 puts that in the task list, it says, you know, 470 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.640 I'm going to write tests and run tests at every 471 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.279 step of these data. And sometimes I say, no, it 472 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.440 just remove all the tests. But but when I'm writing 473 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.000 something for production, I find that I get higher quality. 474 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.359 I find that I don't have to iterate on the 475 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.720 code as much once it's finished, especially if I'm steering, 476 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.920 just steering it along the way, And so I find 477 00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:21.200 I end up with I guess the right thing the 478 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.640 first time more often. And I would say the other 479 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:29.240 one is I'm trying to think of We have some 480 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.799 examples from the Cure team using Kiro to build Hero, 481 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:42.880 especially in UH some of the code oss UH code base. 482 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.240 This is a massive ten year old code base, and 483 00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:48.480 there's some changes that we've had to make in the 484 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:56.680 in the in our our fork of it. It is 485 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.880 really hard to understand that. And so I was thinking about, 486 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.880 you know, so many developers having to work through a 487 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.119 massive legacy code basis, which we know there are many 488 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.839 of in the world, and having to trying to make 489 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.319 a change to one of those code bases. This is 490 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:17.839 like incredibly scary thing, right, and our experience was that 491 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:22.319 that process helped us to work with the AI to 492 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.880 build an understanding of where those changes needed to be made. 493 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.359 And that was because it was able to kind of 494 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.240 have this planning stage where it looked through a lot 495 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:36.799 of the code, summarized, a lot of the code, figured 496 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.920 out all the places that needed to be changed for 497 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:43.119 a particular feature, and that was helpful for the developer 498 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.279 learning as well. Right, they didn't they

didn't actually know 499 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.960 where where all these changes needed to be made, so 500 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.240 it was really helpful for that, you know, both the 501 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.559 steering files that were generated for that code base, but 502 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.319 also just going through this planning phase was really helpful 503 00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:58.400 for the developer doing that. 504 00:28:02.240 --> 00:28:02.559 Cool. 505 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:07.279 Well, yeah, I mean that would make sense, right that 506 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.799 anything more you put into the planning, the better your 507 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.880 execution is going to be on the back end, while 508 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:15.640 at the same time understanding you know, I just am 509 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.599 working through a large project at my day to day 510 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.079 and no matter how much you plan, there's stuff that's 511 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:23.200 going to change as you go along. You're going to 512 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:25.880 find out a library doesn't work or doesn't have what 513 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.279 you need, or here's a better option, or you have 514 00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:33.279 to totally scrap it because of other considerations. So I 515 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:38.640 guess if kiro can handle the changes, which it seems 516 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:40.240 like it can, where you can go and say, okay, 517 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.599 this change, now I need to rescope this and have 518 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:44.400 this then yeah that's awesome. 519 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.880 Yeah. And the fact that you can steer it as 520 00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.759 it barfs out all that code. 521 00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.400 Yeah, bar is that a technical term? 522 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:56.640 Trap? 523 00:28:58.160 --> 00:28:59.480 It is when I use cursor. 524 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.200 So just from a training standpoint, I've been poking around, 525 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.079 you know, just on YouTube. If I search, I'll see 526 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.160 a bunch of stuff on hero. Do you guys have 527 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:13.640 any particular training videos or step in your channel. 528 00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:16.640 On kiro on like video stuff? 529 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:17.880 Okay, here's how you do this. 530 00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.200 I could jump in here in this one. 531 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:22.519 Yep. Yeah. 532 00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:25.799 So the full developed Rabits team, We're really excited. I've 533 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:27.920 been creating a lot of content. We have our own 534 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:33.160 Twitch channel, so we've been creating weekly every other week videos. 535 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:35.440 Claire was just actually on one couple of weeks ago, 536 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:39.559 I believe, and we've been creating. We have a YouTube 537 00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.960 channel for kiro too. We have a bunch of videos there, 538 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.920 and we have blue Sky and x account. So yeah, 539 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.920 we kind of hit all the channels up to try 540 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:52.440 to get out and also just going to the kiro 541 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:55.880 dot dev website and then looking at the blogs in 542 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:58.160 the docks a great way to start. 543 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.920 And the discord community is so active. That's been one 544 00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:08.720 of the the nicest surprises almost of this lunch. You know, 545 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:13.400 we wanted a way to connect with individual developers, right, 546 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:19.759 but I've been so excited to see really a community 547 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:24.160 forming and people helping each other on the Discord. So 548 00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:25.440 that's been amazing to see. 549 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:29.759 Yeah, I have to say, with most of the things 550 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:31.839 that I've worked on, when the people are great, it 551 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:36.240 makes it just that much better. Like it, it's fun 552 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.359 to deliver something cool and it's fun to see that 553 00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.039 it made a difference. But when you're able to connect, 554 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.200 I don't know, at least for me, it's a whole 555 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:51.799 different thing. Yeah, So where does this go next? Like, 556 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.559 what are you putting into kro next? Is there going 557 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:57.279 to be a you don't even need a developer any more? Mode? 558 00:30:57.799 --> 00:30:59.480 I hear people worry about that all the time. 559 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.839 I mean, some things that folks have been asking us for, 560 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.640 especially in the Discord, We're listening very closely, things like 561 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:13.440 background tasks folks have been asking for, where maybe you 562 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:15.440 do want to set it and forget it for a 563 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.039 little bit and let it go for ten to fifteen minutes. 564 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:23.039 We've been finding that that mode is useful when you 565 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:26.839 have a project where the AI can iterate for a 566 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.359 long time. So, for example, we have a project internally 567 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.680 that is written in RUSS that was done entirely with 568 00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:37.400 AI coding, and the Rust compiler gives such good feedback 569 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.319 about the code that you can kind of let it. 570 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.680 Let the AI go for ten minutes and it will 571 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.839 work out all the bugs because the Rust compiler is 572 00:31:45.839 -->

00:31:50.440 giving it such such good feedback, and so you can 573 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.880 let it go for ten minutes and the code that 574 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.039 comes out might not be you know, massive amount of 575 00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:02.319 code of blab of code for you to review, but 576 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.759 it's gone through so much testing it's definitely going to be. 577 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:10.000 It's almost always right when it comes back. But you 578 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:14.680 also don't necessarily want to be you know, running your 579 00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:17.799 local laptops to you for one hundred percent. For that 580 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.799 whole time, the folks have been asking us, you know, 581 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.920 how can we run it? Have the task maybe run 582 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.400 on a different machine, like on an easy to instance 583 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:29.039 something like that, or just you know, multiple threads going 584 00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.759 on in their local laptop. Let's see some other things 585 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.240 that folks have been asking us about. 586 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:37.680 I'm imagining somebody using that Kiro build me Twitter. 587 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:43.920 Oh yeah, yeah, somebody already me a YouTube clone that 588 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.160 they built with Kiro. But let's see what else. There's 589 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.960 a lot of opportunity for improvement in the spectrum and development. 590 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000 I think we're just getting started there. We have some 591 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:58.079 really interesting ideas about how to prove that the code 592 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:02.119 that was generated actually meets the requirements that you set. 593 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:05.279 I think we've all seen that. Sometimes models will say 594 00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.000 that they have met your requirements and they have not 595 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:10.920 met your requirements, and so we have some really interesting 596 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:11.680 ideas there. 597 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.359 Yeah. I've experienced that too, where it says I did 598 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:19.440 it and I tried it and it worked and no. 599 00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.720 All right, so Eric, what is the Sorry? Go ahead, we're. 600 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.000 Getting close to the time for picks, so when you 601 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:29.839 to start writing down, But that's fine, go ahead and 602 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:30.480 ask your question. 603 00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.880 So, Eric, what is the AWS channel on YouTube or 604 00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:35.039 what is the channel for Kiro? 605 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.559 Yeah, there's a Kiro channel on YouTube. I think it's 606 00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:42.680 kiro dot dev. So if you go to YouTube dot 607 00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.240 com slash at kiro dot dev you. 608 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.799 Will o t k Dev. 609 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:48.599 Yeah, thank you. 610 00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.279 Yeah, k I R O d O T DEV. That's 611 00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:52.000 a good call it yep. 612 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.799 Okay, And do we get the visuals on there? What's that? 613 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:01.240 Do we get to see your faces on there or 614 00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:03.720 somebody else if. 615 00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:05.599 You look there today? As of this recording, I'm not 616 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.199 sure when this is going out, but I said today, Yeah, 617 00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:11.480 I just did a video with James Ward. It's extending 618 00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:13.840 tirost capabilities with MCP. We didn't even get into this, 619 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:16.920 but it does have MCP capabilities, which is I'm sure 620 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.519 you guys done shows on it. But yeah, we go 621 00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:22.440 through in this in the latest video in the channel 622 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:26.000 on how to I add some fun MCP servers how 623 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.199 to set that up? So yeah, and there's a lot 624 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.280 of interviews, a lot of great information on there to 625 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:31.800 check out. 626 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.039 Wow, when you're dressed up too, it looks good. 627 00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:36.039 Yeah, I got I got to wear the sports tacking occasionally, 628 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:37.559 not always just wearing the. 629 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:40.719 Black on black. 630 00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:41.880 Look, that's really good man. 631 00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:46.920 All right, Well let's go ahead and do some picks, because, 632 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:50.880 like I said, I have a hard stop. So we'll 633 00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.320 go ahead and start with Steve. Steve, what are your picks? 634 00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:54.039 All right? 635 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:57.679 So don't have anything else outside of the dad jokes 636 00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.840 of the week, So we'll dive right into those. So 637 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.920 someone threw a can of sodat maybe the other day, 638 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:10.079 but I'm okay, it was a soft drink. Simple question. 639 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:14.159 A couple of questions here. Why do hummingbirds hum because 640 00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:15.360 they don't know the words. 641 00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:16.920 Thank you? 642 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:23.880 And finally another question, why do people say tuna fish sandwich? 643 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:31.519 Nobody says chicken bird sandwich. Those are the dad jokes. 644 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:31.719 Of the week. 645 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.400 All right, you said you didn't have anything else, that's correct. 646 00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:42.920 All right, I'm gonna go next. So Claire, you haven't 647 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:45.360 been on the

show before, so I'll just explain. We 648 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.960 just shout out about whatever, and so Steve shares the 649 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.920 best of the dad jokes, and then you know, we'll 650 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.599 do other things. So I usually pick up board game 651 00:35:56.679 --> 00:35:59.840 or a card game, and so I'm going to pick 652 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:03.599 a called The Infiltrators. Infiltrators came out in twenty thirteen 653 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:07.000 or twenty twenty three, sorry, and it's done by Pandasaurus. 654 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:11.960 They have other games. It is a two to five 655 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:16.079 player card game. And what it is is you have 656 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.000 a certain number of I guess spies that you're trying 657 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:24.199 to or mafia members that you're trying to pinpoint. And 658 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.599 so what they are is they're face down cards in 659 00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:30.920 front of each player, and so as you look at 660 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:36.239 the there's a delay in my videos striting crazy. So 661 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.679 as you play, then what you can do is you 662 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:41.840 can so I can give a clue on my cards 663 00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:45.039 or somebody else's cards, but if I play it on 664 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:46.880 somebody else's card, then I get to draw a card 665 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:48.920 back to my hand. Otherwise I have to take a 666 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.039 turn to get more cards eventually. And so usually you're 667 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.280 cluing other people's cards, but sometimes you clue your own 668 00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:59.000 because you know what yours is and nobody else does, 669 00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.239 so you know. Then you can kind of give people 670 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.480 the you know, instead of them guessing over and over again, 671 00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:06.320 you can just basically tell them what it is based 672 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:09.199 on what they already know. And so if I put 673 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:12.039 put a card on somebody else's they can turn it 674 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.320 one way or the other that says there's nothing in 675 00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:16.880 common with this card, or there's something in common with 676 00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:20.159 this card, and it basically what it can have in 677 00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:23.079 common is either the numbers on the card. And so 678 00:37:23.559 --> 00:37:26.159 let's say that you have the fifteen that you play 679 00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:28.920 over there. Well, the fifteen shows all of the factors 680 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:30.960 or multiples of the number, right, So if you play 681 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.119 a three as three, six, nine, twelve, and fifteen, if 682 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:36.440 you play the fifteen, it has one, three, five, and fifteen. 683

00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:40.000 And so if my card is a one, three, five 684 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:45.039 or fifteen, I don't think there were ones anyway. If 685 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:47.000 it has any of those numbers, then I'll put it 686 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.679 down and say there's something common, or if it's the 687 00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:51.519 same color as something common. But if there's nothing in common, 688 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:54.320 then you can eliminate a whole bunch of cards. You 689 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:59.079 can you say it's not blue anyway. So it's it's fun, 690 00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.039 and what you're trying to do is you're trying to 691 00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.400 expose what all of the cards are. And so one 692 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:06.639 of the things you can do on your turn is 693 00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:11.679 instead of putting down a clue, you can say you're 694 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:14.039 supposed it has a little gun prop and you're supposed 695 00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:16.320 to execute the card. But we always just say that 696 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:19.400 one's the three of red, and then you know, whoever 697 00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.599 had it flips it over and says you're right, or 698 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.199 if you're wrong, then there are consequences for that. But anyway, 699 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:28.000 it's a fun game. Board game geek waits at at 700 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:32.719 two point one point one. That's out of five, and 701 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:39.280 so it's it's pretty approachable for people for the casual gamer. 702 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.039 Sometimes I like the deep dark games that are like 703 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.719 three or three point five and weight. But you know, 704 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:47.000 if you just want to pick up a game you 705 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:49.039 can play in a half hour, that's a great one. 706 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.519 And it's just it's a deck of cards, so anyway, 707 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.440 not a like a a poker deck, but it has 708 00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:59.400 its own deck. But anyway, super fun. And so I'm 709 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:01.920 going to pick that we played it, I don't know, 710 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.639 like six times the last time I got together with 711 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.400 my buddies. We get together and we play every Wednesday. 712 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:11.400 So we're going to play tonight. We'll see what we play. 713 00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:13.400 What's the name of the game again. 714 00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:19.639 Infiltraders, Traders is spelled like traders like people who betray people, 715 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.920 so it's not the typical spelling of the word. And 716 00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:26.000 then I'm also going to pick While I was in 717 00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:29.360 Atlanta last week, I was in the hotel trying to 718 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:32.519 just relax, and so I was looking for a show 719 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:35.239 to watch and I picked up The Twisted Tale of 720 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:39.320 Amanda Knox and Amanda Knox is an American student who 721 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.000 was studying in Peruja. When I was a missionary in Italy, 722 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.800 I didn't live that far from Peruja actually anyway, and 723 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:48.559 that's been kind of fun for me because like half 724 00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:52.280 the show's in Italian with subtitles because the Italians are 725 00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:56.159 speaking Italian. But anyway, so she gets arrested for murder 726 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.400 and so they're kind of going through the trialing their 727 00:39:59.440 --> 00:40:02.360 five episod So it's out as we record this and 728 00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:06.440 it comes out every Tuesday or Wednesday. But yeah, really 729 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.159 really enjoying that, and so I'm going to pick that show. 730 00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:11.920 I've also been watching The Terminal List and that has 731 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.199 Chris Pratt in it. That one's a little bit more violent, 732 00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:16.440 but I'm enjoying that one as well. Twisted Tale of 733 00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:18.960 Amanda Knox is on Hulu, which is included in our 734 00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:22.440 Disney I've been watching on Disney Plus, and then a 735 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:26.760 Terminal List is on Amazon Prime. So yeah, I'll pick 736 00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:29.199 all of those. I'm trying to think what else. But 737 00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.800 I'm going to be speaking at commit Your Code conference 738 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:34.960 in at the end of September, and I believe this 739 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.440 will come out before then. So if you're going to 740 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:40.159 be there come find me. And then on the next 741 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:42.159 week I'm going to be at Rocky Mountain Ruby Conference 742 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:45.119 in Boulder or no, that's two weeks later, but anyway, 743 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:47.159 so I'm going to be around if you're in Atlanta. 744 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.440 Price Picks is based in Atlanta, so I wind up 745 00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:51.599 out there. So just email me and say, hey, I'm 746 00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:53.360 in Atlanta. Let me know when you're coming out next 747 00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:55.880 and I'll let you know. But yeah, those are my picks, Eric, 748 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:57.840 what are your picks? 749 00:40:58.679 --> 00:40:59.159 I good? 750 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.519 Well, So last night I went to the movie theater 751 00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:05.880 with my wife and I guess Hamilton has a ten 752 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:09.559 year anniversary movie that you can watch, So we watched 753 00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:15.199 the ten year Anniversary Hamilton movie. That included like ten 754 00:41:15.280

--> 00:41:17.880 fifteen minutes the beginning of like interviews with the cast 755 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:20.440 and everything. So that was kind of a fun evening 756 00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.480 to check it out. Of course, you can get Hamilton 757 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:25.320 and Disney plus the movie, but it was nice to 758 00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:27.440 check that out in the movie theater, which I've never 759 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.320 watched Hamilton. I've watched it at in Broadway, but I 760 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:33.679 have not watched it in a movie theater, which so 761 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.480 that was fun. So that's my first pick, and then 762 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.719 I guess the second pick would be I just went 763 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:42.199 to Singapore for an AWS event a few weeks ago. Man, 764 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:46.039 I love Singapore. I just love the food, the hawker stations, 765 00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:50.760 the all the amazing gardens. So I highly recommend people 766 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:55.039 who want to travel to a nice destination. Have I 767 00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:57.400 went to Gardens by the Bay, which had this crazy 768 00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.360 light show. They do it like once every day or 769 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.920 twice a day, and so yeah, great weather, great food, 770 00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:06.840 highly worth checking it. 771 00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:11.400 Awesome, Claire, what are your picks? 772 00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:16.119 Let's see. So I just finished a book called Custodians 773 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:21.039 of Wonder by Elliott Stein. Ancient customs, profound traditions, and 774 00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.840 the last people keeping them alive. So this guy went 775 00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:27.719 and found people who are kind of the end of 776 00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.440 the line. There's a woman in Italy that makes a 777 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.800 certain kind of pasta that no one else in the 778 00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:36.239 world knows how to make. Guy in somewhere in Africa 779 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:40.440 that a certain story has been passed down for thousands 780 00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.679 of years, and he has to figure out who's the 781 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:44.800 next person to pass it down to. It's a super 782 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.719 super interesting book, Let's see. I have also been on 783 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:52.320 the hunt for free public APIs for demos, and there 784 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.800 is a one that I like that is I can 785 00:42:56.119 --> 00:42:57.400 has dad joke. 786 00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:02.400 Yes, thank you, I have actually used that. I'll give 787 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:04.960 you a real quick backstory. I did a video for 788 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.760 view Mastery a few years ago and the way that 789 00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:10.519 they asked everybody to do a demo project. So what 790 00:43:10.599 --> 00:43:12.920 I did was a view app that randomly pulled from 791 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:16.079 that API and then and displayed a dad joke on 792 00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:17.599 the screen. So yes, that's great. 793 00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:19.480 So that's my second pick. 794 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:24.039 Awesome, all right. If people want to We've talked about 795 00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.239 like the discord and the YouTube channel, but if people 796 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:28.159 want to connect directly with either of you, how do 797 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:28.679 they find you. 798 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:34.440 I'm on Blue Sky, Claire Libori and LinkedIn. 799 00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:38.679 Yep, and you can find me at Eric C. 800 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:39.639 H E. R I. K. 801 00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.760 Ch on. All the socials are just Eric Hanschett on 802 00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:43.599 LinkedIn as well. 803 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.400 Awesome. All right, well, thanks for coming, thank you, wrap 804 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:51.519 up until next time. Max Out