Neuroscientist Explains How Weed is Killing Your Drive, Memory, and Focus의 전체 녹취록

because it was literally my only friend. And the longer it went, the more I lost I lost him. ⁓ It literally ended with h him forgetting my ⁓ my marriage, kind of like my my wedding, where he had a key role as you can imagine. And that was kinda just somehow broke it. So that's kind of just like the the non-science axle kind of ⁓ thing. The most intriguing thing for me is that It is portrayed as ⁓ ple pretty much completely harmless. Right. I mean, in in so many states in the US it's basically just legal. ⁓ what what is intriguing is if you look at the literature of science, it was long unclear that there is actually an endogenous cannabis system in our brain. That's that's you always see this because ⁓ scientists aren't are not I think not really creative, most of them in kind of naming new molecules. But ⁓ in in essence when they found an endocannabis, they called it endocannabinoid, right? Like something natural in us that is similar to cannabis because cannabis was known. So in other words, we we know about the effects of cannabis and the whole cannabinoid system hundreds of years. The endocannabinoid system that is literally mimicking that internally, so we have the whole system in place, huh? Yeah. ⁓ But in order to stimulate it, we have to hang out with friends. So that's number one. speaker-1: Why do we have to go and hang out with friends? speaker-2: Apparently in evolution it was hugely beneficial to have friends, right? What makes sense, right? If you think about it, you have your family you have to take care of. That's kind of the direct effect on transporting your genes forward. But you're in huge benefit if you're hanging out with friends who support you, and all families in a group of friends benefit evolutionarily from kind of just like enjoying friends. Interestingly, that is the youngest of our neurotransmitters. So kind of that is almost The one that defines us as humans. speaker-1: And so just to clarify really quick, ⁓ you're saying that in order to get the benefits of the endocannabinoid system without using THC, you have to be hanging out with friends and that somehow releases a similar effect. speaker-2: Almost I would say the idently the identical effect. Wow that that's but but now you understand what cannabis does, right? It gives you the feeling of being safe in a world of friends without any person around you. And that that's it, right? So so and and and now you understand why it is so strong and omnipresent, right? Because without friends speaker-1: Fascinating. Exactly. That's speaker-2: You don't feel well, number one, and actually what is more important, you actually feel anxious. Just imagine from an evolution perspective, you sit in in in in the forest, right, at night and you have no friends. That triggers anxiety. And now you understand why cannabis is primarily used as an anti anxiety drug. And actually works tremendously well. Years later, the the s the last time I saw that particular friend again, I asked him, I said, Hey look, come on, I I wanna f I wanna experience that right let let's let's kind of just do that. And he looks at me and he says, No, you will not do this. You should be proud that you didn't do it. And it was like the last conversation we had, therefore it's of course like you see from a social perspective, I kind of just like it's it was very interesting, right? For me kind of dancing around this thing and then kind of just like years later in my twenties, it was like, no, just don't touch this shit. The endocannabinoid system that works on the exact same molecules like cannabis has been built for us to enjoy friendship. That's number one. Number two, and that is also very interesting, it has in the feeling of contentment. So what we feel when we are alone in nature. Because also nature is actually giving us a peaceful and safe environment. It's interesting what we kind of just like, if you think about it, how we detour the two. youngest and most important emotions we have. I come to the third one, friends, right? Friends, nature. So friendship, love, contentment. And then that's our latest science basically also gratitude. The youngest emotion has a very, very strong cannabinoid component. So in a way what we do by giving using Cannabis is we get a free ride to the three most important emotions of our lives that normally need a lot of action, right? You have to take care of friends. You have to go to nature, you have to embrace nature, right? And then gratitude, being grateful, needs also a lot of reflection, right? Yes. And that's why it is such a nice detour, right? Because it gets us for free to an emotion. And therefore it sounds all for a sudden actually amazing. And now comes the the now comes the two shortfalls, right? Shortfall number one. When what has been shown is when you give cannabis alone, it's very difficult to make a memory. However, if you give endocannabinoids plus dopamine, that's needed for all the emotions I just explained, it's the strongest memory you can make. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-2: So in other words, you get the feeling of with cannabis, but you don't get the memory. You get the feeling plus the memory with the endocannabinoids. And that is the reason why I feel it's the most dangerous drug. So in a way that the system is literally brilliantly identical. We just take a detour by smoking something what looks super similar to what we actually have, but what needs action to To to get it active. For me, it's like this philosophical last point that I think is so interesting, right? That cannabis does not make a long-lasting memory. So and that I think is so interesting. And and therefore I I I in a way, like for our conversation, I love your comment that you cannot dream anymore because dreaming is nothing else than can just like really shuffling and organizing your memories at the end. We would never be able to substitute a good joint. with hanging out with friends or walking through nature or being

grateful because the dose we get is so much higher, however we don't remember it. So that that's the issue. speaker-0: Well, okay, so to to play devil's advocate, what if ⁓ like smoking weed with your friends is like a a ritual? What if it's ⁓ brings people together? But yeah, you would argue it's just but you can't remember anything. speaker-2: Well it's it's it's actually a very good point. ⁓ the joint says everything, right? Just smoke it with friends, right? Together. Together joint together. Because then you get like the double whammy. You get the friends plus the cannabis. The idea also that you that that's of course kind of just like my my memory all the time, like the classical move moving the joint, right? celebrating that. I think it all depends on a second component, what is called dopamine, right? So cannab cannabinoids plus dopamine gives you a feeling that is then printed into a memory. speaker-1: So you could get the dopamine rush from friends though, if especially if it was like a friend you don't see for a long time and you're just seeing them. And then that would probably be an ideal situation. Or maybe you smoke and then go skydiving, something where you're getting extreme amounts of dopamine. Maybe you'll you'll remember that one for a long time. speaker-2: I if we wanna optimize it that that that could basically work. What I always feel is the most important thing is that that everybody should understand it before starting it, right? That would be the best, right? Because if you are aware that hey, if I kind of just do this alone, I'm kind of literally not following the natural path. If I do it Together with friends, I'm actually I may even amplify this. that's number one. Number two is I think the very strong anxiolytic, so kind of just like fear-suppressing element is really important to understand when you do it, because you also know what happens if you don't do it. But I have seen people trying to withdraw, and the anxiety that comes towards you is so massive. But again, you see, I always believe if you understand. The anxiety comes because I have been somehow told that I have friends that I don't have, then I think the anxiety ⁓ somehow makes more sense to me, mm. Yeah. As I literally have to kind of regulate this with kind of just hanging out with more with people. speaker-0: What kinda withdrawal effects do you have, Luke, when you when g try to kick it? speaker-1: It's mostly my anxiety does skyrocket and I think that's because I've been artificially ⁓ it's like a band aid for my anxiety kind of that I'm using every single day. And then so when I stop and there's b there's been times where I naturally have very low anxiety in my life and those times it's a much easier. But if I'm during a stressful time and trying to stop then, it's like the back of my mind I know, ⁓ I could be fixed in two seconds. I just have to take one hit, you know. So I think Just knowing that kind of makes it amplifies the anxiety because I'm

like, ⁓ I'm keeping myself from feeling calm and ⁓ and at ease again when I could just smoke really quick. And that's one issue that I have. It's so everywhere, it's widespread. They say there's almost no negative side effects. They also say it's not addicting. And I have a huge I am personally addicted to it and I know so many people that are addicted to it. Why is it out there that, ⁓ it's not addicting. It's not a it is addicting. speaker-2: Yeah. I think that the that for me the the term addiction is kind of very misleading in general, right? So it's like a classical medical clinical concept that has been seen obviously in cold turkey. Like literally you have a physical reaction to removing a chemical. The emotional reactions are much, much more difficult actually. To kind of get your mind back in shape is much, much longer than kind of just like pressing through some Shaking, obstipation, kind of like all these physical things, right? You can kind of adapt that actually with brutality, right? Literally lock the door, throw the key away, and you have a horror show for ten days. For me, the most and much more trickier addictive substances is actually that make you feel good. That is really amazing, right? It's it it's and therefore I I think that that terminology is just wrong. I think it's wrong. I I even believe speaker-1: It's dangerous in my opinion. speaker-2: It it is but but I think also here it would be much easier to ex explain a little bit to people, right? So so so in a way if you if you think about it, I I I had like ⁓ several people who who are heroin dependent at at school. We we we were at I I grew up at a time with a very high ⁓ level of of heroin availability. All my previous friends when I talked to them But they what they still say is the moment they have experienced this the first time is their biggest memory that kind of just is graying out their entire life. Now heroin is not cannabis, huh? Yep. But in general what everybody should understand is our brain is a machine that is ⁓ guiding us to Hopefully great life, right? They wanna progress us. So the most important thing is to stack rank what we have learned is good. So we all remember the best three sushi places, but we don't remember the fiftieth best, right? Because it doesn't make a difference. So just imagine that you hanging out with your friends is is the maximum of your scale. Let's just call it one to ten. And you are totally happy. So that 10 memory with hang kind of sitting in the in in watching the sunset with your friends, right, somewhere, will get rank number one on your memories. And now understand that you can just like overload friendship love with a very high dose first joint. You laugh your butt off, right? You have an amazing kind of just eating flesh afterwards. It's a huge experience. The brain sees that simply as ⁓ Hey, that was so meaningful. I better guide my body that is hanging below my brain to exactly repeat this, right? Because in the rank of cannabinoids, it didn't understand cannabis and cannabinoids, because in the brain it's only cannabinoids, my endogenous friends, right? All of a sudden all your normal friends' emotions kind of just like are downranked. And you see this if we would all understand that that is the concept of any drug. We would have at least a choice to say, Yeah, let's let's come on, let's go for it. Let's go for it, but be aware that it that I may not experience a natural friendship feeling in the same intensity then ever again. Yeah. And see this this is the whole this is the whole story that I think is missing. I I feel it's ⁓ it's a question of choice instead of a question of warning or judgment. It's literally give the full information to people and then hey. Your choice. You are you have the freedom to choose. But with kind of ⁓ you become addicted of only the hard stuff. This is all this is kind of confusing, I think. Yeah. Well speaker-1: I agree. And that's that's why I wanted to do this podcast so much. I I've always had the mind that I don't want anyone to smoke weed because of me. I if somebody said, ⁓ it's my first time I want to smoke, I'll say, ⁓ I don't wanna you be the one that makes you smoke for the first time because it's a big decision and I don't have I have my personal experience, but I also have seen friends who have become heavily reliant on it, who have gotten maybe ⁓ one of my friends got a DWI because he was driving and got pulled over. And had been smoking and so I don't ever want that responsibility on me of ⁓ and it's had some really big benefits in my life, but also I I am aware that it's had some really negative side effects and I've been addicted to it at times so much where I completely depend on it and I don't like that. I don't want to completely depend on anything. You know, I yeah. Same with caffeine. That that's another one that's kind of similar to me. It's like if you're drinking Two or three Red Bull energy drinks every single day just to have a baseline level, that's a pretty severe addiction that's just overlooked. And alcohol, marijuana, they're all kind of these more ⁓ socially acceptable ones that are still i an issue that I, you know, I I don't wanna really be addicted to anything in my life. Use it s kind of responsibly only. speaker-2: I fully understand that on the anxiety side it is most probably unbeatable because it's just a very, very strong anxiolytic. But if you think about your base level, right, and we and we just look into the the key natural deliverables of cannabinoids, right? If we just think about friends, nature, and being grateful, these are the and actually laughing. These are the four key emotions. So you could literally start every day to say I I I take one of these one of these four. It doesn't matter whether you just watch ⁓ kind of just like a crazy comedian stuff, but laughing drops cannabinoids. It doesn't matter why. Friends, like literally gr grab and call a friend. I mean you could

even say, Hey, I call Andrew every three days just to just speaker-1: Fixed. speaker-2: Yeah, literally, right? So exactly. So so and and s and then the the other thing is like literally this idea of what for me was fascinating as a scientist, so it's not so much in nature, but seeing how much nature is actually giving us these neurotransmitters that we otherwise use by take taking drugs. I was fascinated. I was just fascinated. So if you just s systematically would say, Okay, let's just see and and not even testing, right? You will realize, ⁓ do I smoke less, maybe? And can I keep the real cannabis for the anxiety because I think it has been proven to be a very, very good anxolytic, right? But but that's that's you see, it's like almost for me it's like it's a it's almost like a game between understanding the science and playing it well. That that's that's it. And the substances are all all around us. We cannot simply say, ⁓ just ignore them. That's impossible. speaker-1: Food, I mean most food is a f speaker-2: Food, sugars, like dopamine hit right there, right? speaker-1: It is interesting you say that because my f literally my favorite thing on this planet is going out in nature with friends, camping and smoking out there in nature. It's all of it at once and it just feels right. It feels natural, it feels like the best. And so I I I did have some questions about though you said the the three most important or also the three newest of our ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah, newest means ⁓ maybe to explain that. ⁓ i in a way, happiness started when life started, right? If there is nothing to to win in a feeling perspective when you find food, you would not look so evolution started with dopamine that gives you motivation to look for food. Yeah. And then biology I think is fascinating. Whenever something works it just speaker-1: Look for speaker-2: repeats it and adds a little nuance. It's but the concept stays the same. So it realized, ⁓ if I only look for food, and then all of a sudden there was like a a group who could kind of just like reproduce by literally mating, right? Like sexual reproduction. So so you have a competition. One group who is kind of only looking for food and proliferating by just dividing and the other one taking some time off not looking for food and mating. That would not happen if there's no motivation to find a mating partner, right? So the second neurotransmitter next to dopamine was testosterone, because that gives you sexual desire. So you had the desire to spend some time to find a mating partner. Definitely 800 million years ago. And then you kind of just the next one is serotonin because when you can choose or when you are chosen, you feel recognized. So serotonin and dopamine gives you the feeling of recognition, self esteem. D three basically all animals have. Then with a big time gap. There was a a w a a weird species that actually takes care of their children for the whole life. Makes energetically no sense unless you feel

family love. Mm-hmm. That's mammals. So mammals take care of their kids their whole life. Because they feel family love. That's oxytocin. It's the fourth neurotransmitter. Interesting. Then it's a little bit of debate, when was pleasure coming into the game, right? When was There's something that is really so pleasurable that it's kind of gives you an enhancement. Pleasure is is opioids. Then the last one, the youngest one, roughly like ten million years back, beyond the family, there was seems to be a benefit that you were hanging out with friends because they were giving you protection and with that all families could proliferate. And this is kinda just like what all higher mammals basically have. We have a cannabinoid system. So when I say the youngest, it means cannabinoid is the youngest neurotransmitter, basically. And it's used in f let me just see, in four emotions. In friendship love, together with dopamine, in contentment, together with dopamine and oxytocin, that's the nature piece. Then in amusement to b together with the opioids and dopamine, that's laughing, and then in gratitude, together with serotonin and dopamine. So you see it's like a a puzzle of neurotransmitters that give you all your emotions. So s six neurotransmitters give you nine emotions and the youngest ones all hold cannabinoids. That's why it's so popular. It's the it's the next to alcohol, the most popular drug on the planet. speaker-0: Luke, do you want to ⁓ light up a doobie? speaker-1: Yeah, I I thought that would be interesting to step off camera and ⁓ smoke a little bit and then see how ⁓ speaker-0: No, I mean you don't you don't even have to step off camera. speaker-1: Well I'm staying at my sister's house and I'm gonna h speaker-0: Your friend that ⁓ studies physics, what did you see in his life that made it seem real so bad to you because he kinda isolated himself and he wasn't being social anymore? speaker-2: He didn't finish his physics exams, right? So he basically can just like I don't know how often he can just like failed that one exam. I think like f four years in a row. And the reason and and for me it was like speaker-0: Okay, so he he did like fail out of school then. Okay. speaker-2: Yeah, yeah, he failed out of college and basically just then ⁓ w went back. ⁓ I actually to be honest and I I lost I lost really contact but but you see that the whole thing was kind of just like I felt he had what at the time was kind of my definition of kind of potential, I felt he was just phenomenally he had a huge potential. And it was literally that the the weed was blocking his entire potential getting a success because he was totally passionate about ⁓ climate and kind of the the physics elements to it and I and I felt like he missed his passion b because the weed was continuously getting him more and more dysfocused. And the interesting thing this the good thing is I had this observation before I actually even understood the whole thing. speaker-1: And what

a loss. I missed the first part of this but I'm assuming you're talking about your buddy and ⁓ Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Did you say what is what did he go on to do? speaker-2: ⁓ he I I actually just don't know how it all ended up. I think he kinda just like all for a sudden ha had like ⁓ one kid or two kids, right? So all of a sudden it and w n but c kind of a a lot of things were just like happening, if you will, right? But it but it's but I just remember that talking to him and his passion for climate and therefore he wanted to kind of just like complete physics because that was the foundation and kind of then moving on. And I it felt to me like Just like someone being robbed of his passion because of the weed. That that's kind of just like ⁓ again, it is my single data point observing something that is highly colored with me losing a friend, right? Yeah. So but but but I think but I think that that's kind of just like how how how the whole thing starts. speaker-0: In my experience, people I know personally they'll smoke and it and it really takes away their personality and they just they're so apathetic and that can be so annoying. But then there's other people you can't even tell if they're smoking or not. So there is I feel like there is a certain group of people can really benefit from it and being in their life or not. speaker-1: That speaks to me personally, both of those ⁓ metaphors, because I too think that my biggest issue with it is that it does dampen my passion. I kind of jump around in these careers that I don't really care about. I know I'm creative, I know I have ⁓ all the ability in the world to change the world in so many positive ways, but at the end of the day, I'm just content go doing my daily life. But but in the back of my mind, I'm not. So I think yeah, I can speak to that. But also Like to Andrew's point, I don't think that for me personally, when I lived in Los Angeles, I was smoking so much every day, all day, from the time I woke up to the time I was high all the time. And I would do a dab, concentrated THC, huge amounts ⁓ of THC, and then I would go drive for Uber. Like and I was fine. Like no no issue at all. No one could tell I was stoned. Every job interview I ever went to, I would show up stoned, so that that was my baseline and I would have you know, a good interview and then I would show up to work stoned and they would never know I was stoned. ⁓ now that I don't smoke so much all the time, it becomes a little more apparent. I don't smoke before work anymore. ⁓ even I'm I'm doing catering now, which I did ⁓ in Los Angeles and during catering in Los Angeles I would have a vape pen and smoke during the shift even and I'd be managing people. I was a catering manager, which I am now too, but now that I've gotten older The the effects also I think have changed throughout my life, ⁓ multiple times. ⁓ with with chronic use for close to eighteen years now. There's been times where I could smoke all day every day and have

no anxiety at all. Sometimes it's turned on me and I get extremely anxious, like paranoid almost. Well does the speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, and so when you do get like a bad experience, does that kind of be come a catalyst for when you withdraw and you take a break from it, usually? speaker-1: ⁓ it depends. It like if it's a very bad experience, sure, that's happened multiple times, usually from edibles. Which I was surprised by your story of eating fifteen edibles and not feeling it. That's a like an insane amount that would give you a a hallucinogenic experience. I've had that multiple times. But also the first three or four times I smoked, I didn't feel it at all. And that's very common. You don't feel it the first few times. It like your cannabinoid receptors maybe need to become prone to it or something, I don't know. speaker-2: Yeah, all the cookies were just without anything, right? I mean we don't that's the always the point. But but I just r rem I presently remember kind of the the situation because I was like literally getting nervous. What is ha I mean when is this happening, right? Yeah. And everybody else was already kind of just like crashing in laughter and I was like, is this and y and you see this is interesting, right? Laughter is infectious, literally. So If you laugh, you trigger my cannabinoids seeing you laugh. Yes. And and and the funny thing is we will see this in a few minutes, right? The cannabinoids or the cannabis contracts certain muscles in your face that make you laugh the cannabis way, right? You know, I mean you know exactly the smile of when when friends kind of crash in laughter with or without cannabis. This is the this is all triggered By the cannabinoids in your brain marching, basically kind of being present and contracting the muscles in your face. And that is so infectious that someone who sees you laugh also laughs and gets the cannabinoids. So th it's it's the same thing. That's why the these kind of these classical things, everybody kind of just dying of laughter, kind of just like in a group of friends, is kind of just like the classical amplification that you get between the cannabis and the behavior. The interesting thing just from a long-term perspective, because I think that is a a critical aspect which we should just at least touch on. Yeah. ⁓ in chronic cannabis use, you you see literally in brain scans from a structural perspective, functionally as well, of course, but structurally, that actually areas where cortical areas where the where the memories are. Are literally significantly less dense than in people without chronic use. What makes total sense, right? Because as I said, with cannabis you don't make memories. So so you and and and the memory is kind of recorded in the cortical area. So the denser your cortical area is, the more memories you have, right? So so in a way you are literally kind of just like enjoying being content, right? Because the component of contentment, but you're

not coding anything. in your cortical area that is a memory. And I think that's that's a mean element of of cannabis. Nobody talks about, right? That you actually literally erode your your great memories by replacing them with a good feeling. Because feeling alone is not a memory. An emotion is attached to a memory, but a memory is something you can recall, you can enjoy, you can kind of relive, right? speaker-1: I can certainly attest to that. My memory is so bad in so many ways, but also so good in some ways. It's it's quite strange. And I think ⁓ like I can remember a lot of things from even back when I was maybe one years old, but those were all very core memories, big things happening. So also some very like sweet moments with my parents, but that was, you know, a big ⁓ emotion for a one year old or two year old. But also like I do still have these core memories from recently even that ⁓ I think are amplified and that makes sense to what you were saying earlier about the ⁓ the dopamine and the THC at the same time, making actually super memories kind of. And I think that that is something that I really struggle with. And but also I have these really great, wonderful memories as a result of my THC use that I wouldn't trade for anything. You know, r like remarkable ⁓ self realizations, ⁓ but also conversations with people where I was able to be in much deeper state and know intuitive intuitively know what they were needing and provide that for them and they Like, ⁓ my gosh, like I didn't know you were so deep of a person. And I was like, ⁓ well, I am, but you know, when I'm going through my normal daily interactions, one thing I just don't have time to be that deep and connected with every person that I pass on the street. And and then for another thing, I I have to really choose to work on that when I'm not with a THC, I don't even choose. It just happens naturally. speaker-2: What you describe kind of this like really deeply understanding another person, if we just translate it somehow to d the foundational science, it's actually just how normal friendship should be. So so in a way, because we are s calling stuff friends or friendship and never go to that level, we actually just don't appreciate that term even enough. speaker-0: I have a random black mirror kind of question. I saw you can get like endogenous oxytocin, is that is that so you wouldn't have to cuddle anymore. speaker-2: Yeah, it is it no but that that was actually the idea. Now the the challenge the challenge is. so so two things. speaker-0: I hate cuddling. speaker-1: Yeah, and he was not a cuddler. I tried. Yeah. speaker-2: First the oxytocin injections is actually just like because it's so important for giving birth during can just like labor because it has so many elements of contracting certain elements of but now comes what has this oxytocin that you inject does not travel to the brain. So what we use in kind of supporting labor it has no emotional real strong emotional effect. But there were several studies that actually just used Oxytocin in different f formulations like injections in studies and and what it showed is that males actually become aggressive with oxytocin alone. That's why this isn't this is not a drug. The reason is you start protecting your family because under too much oxytocin, so oxytocin alone doesn't do the trick. Dopamine plus oxytocin gives you family love. Apparently in males, oxytocin alone is really getting you aggressive and de You're defending something. So speaker-1: And then you get dopamine. speaker-0: Just getting all the chemicals the natural way avoids a lot of problems. speaker-2: Yeah yeah, of course, but it's also the most difficult way. I mean this is and the life around us is so tricky to get it is is really I mean, just have it's like it's exercise, huh? Indeed. speaker-0: ⁓ so Luke, you you smoked a joint like ⁓ about ten minutes ago? Ten fifteen minutes. ⁓ do you do you feel pretty good? How do you I mean, how do you feel different? speaker-1: ⁓ I definitely like I was explaining when I first got back on like a more I have like more cerebral cerebral awareness and like ⁓ I can I feel like I can relate to people better on a deeper level. And I don't know if I'm stumbling through my words now, disproving that, but ⁓ I do say ⁓ every time I smoke a new strain of weed, it definitely hits me harder than when I've smoked it for the third, fourth or fifth time. And I went and specifically got a a new one for this podcast. I asked for something that would be cerebral, something that would be ⁓ l a little more alert, ⁓ not less ⁓ so I could s you know, still have decently v ⁓ eloquent vocabulary. And but because this is a new one, I do feel quite a bit more stoned than the last couple of days when I've been smoking. But it's yeah, but I do feel good though. I like it. It's not anything new for me. Yep. speaker-2: That's it. And and you and you see that's the that's why we should have had video g so we we should have just done smiles in the beginning and after because the point is you see it's like literally if you just see this it's just like it's just it is just on, right? It's it's ⁓ it's phenomenal. I think it's the most phenomenal thing for me that you can literally see that that the the cheeks are kind of s kind of really squeeze, it's so good. speaker-1: Is it ⁓ Lifting up everything. A true smile, not a fake f flashing of smile because you exactly kind of thought something was funny. That's why like stand up comedians in person is so much more better 'cause that and you know, contagious laughter where if you watch the exact same one on Netflix later, it's still funny, but you're not belly laughing the whole time like at a good stand up show. Concerts, yeah. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Or concerts, yeah. Axel, why do you think marijuana is considered kinda like the lazy drug or makes people less ambitious? speaker-2: I I mean if you think about it, what it gets you,

right? Everything what is really needs effort to get, right? To live a to feel con to feel that you are content takes a lot of kind of achievements before you really feel content or a lot of meditation or something that you really get your philosophy in order, right? I think I would say until I was thirty I was never grateful. I just believed I have done all this stuff. So so so that's and to be honest, I think j I can just speak for myself. I have very few friends. So for me, making friends is like a massive energy lift. And so so if you just think about it, what it gives you, it gives you a leapfrog to what otherwise takes takes quite a while. And and I think not being judgmental, what is most important thing is just to be aware that You have been leapfrogged of all the achievements that other people have to go through and therefore in a world that is dominated by it you have to achieve. This is our Western world. You have to achieve. Then of course you are portrayed by the people who achieved that you are lazy or kinda just like hanging out and kinda just like enjoying. By itself, I think it is just Interesting to kind of just like see how effective ⁓ that particular drug is to give you a lot of kind of calming down peace that others never experience in their whole life. Just because the stress around us is kind of just not letting us do that. Look, you know, right? I mean how you feel without it, right? Yeah f life is just stress. I mean let's be honest. It's just like a stressful shit show. speaker-1: So I'll say speaker-2: It's all the time. I mean it isn't it is the ultimate escape mechanism that you can have speaker-0: It never ends. speaker-1: That what you said was so so affirming to me because I felt my whole life I've like I said, I've been jumping around from career to career, a lot of gig work. So like I work is never constant. I'm always worried about money. Living in Los Angeles for six years where the rents are so expensive and I'm yeah doing catering and some filming of videos and some ⁓ f moving furniture, just all these different kind of gig jobs. ⁓ so I've always struggled with that part. But I have hundreds of friends and I so many I've been in twelve weddings and invited to more weddings and like I that part is so easy for me. I and almost to a a fault though because there's so many people I l have to lose contact with. There's no way I can keep up with everyone that I've really made meaningful friendships with and there's so many of you out there. Random people on the street will just wanna come talk to me and tell me something very personal randomly all the time. And I'll respond to them and they'll I can just feel like the gratitude from them of like, ⁓ thank you for listening. Thank you for being a safe space for me to I I don't know what it is, but th that's for years people have just been drawn to me for so many different reasons. speaker-2: When we kind of just asked people to come and have a session in our ⁓ brain imaging MRI to they we just wanted them to almost like meditate or relive their best moments in life. So what what we realize is that these six neurotransmitters or these nine emotions are actually located at different areas of our brain. So in other words, it's it's almost li like the muscles in our body, right? If you're good at friendship love means Just as an example, your biceps is well trained, right? If you're kind of just like a great lover, kind of just like then y basically you're your kind of your abs look good because you're kinda just like good and sexual desire, right? And what what I'm saying is the story that a successful life needs success at business is completely devalidated by what we have seen in these thousands over thousands of memories. It actually what it tells is this is a decathlon, right? Business is one thing, like being proud on something you achieved, right? It's one area, right? But then it's it's like being a good friend, what you just mentioned, right? Be being actually a good son, a good father, a good brother, whatever, sister. Like you see the family part. part right is an entirely different muscle in your brain. Then the area of literally kind of being a good lover is a different part. The guy being a motivator, enthusiastic, is a different area. And so on. There's someone who is funny is that's is another area. So in other words, our entire equation for success is biologically completely wrong. That's what I can definitely say. Because if you only run for Business success, it's a tiny area that will be very, very dense and the rest will be dark. This is the a portray that I also see in depressed people. So in a way, therefore you see we can almost like say, hey, like you just said, hey, I think on a friendship muscle I'm pretty good. And I'm pretty sure we find a few more because when your friendships are good, your laughing is good, right, as we know. speaker-1: I would say almost all of them I was good on, except for the money thing. So I might be a good s ⁓ study subject for you. speaker-2: Yeah. If if we just believe what Instagram tells us or what the news tell us, you're doomed. You're doomed. You you you you will never be richer than Elon Musk. I I mean I I I don't think so. I I I don't think so that I will be so so you see you will always lose. There's only one winner. So so so kind of if that drags away your serotonin, but to say that you have been invited, that's actually a huge sentence, right? Y ⁓ you have been invited to so many ⁓ kind of weddings. Holy shit. I mean this is like you should be proud for like four weeks straight, hmm? And actually I feel shit now because I had not seen the right to a single one. speaker-1: Mm, thank you. You're a six you're a successful successful man that's changing the world in a positive way and that's pretty impressive to me. So speaker-2: But but but see, this is the interesting thing, right? So y we we all know in the Yeah, exactly. Somewhere we have

weaknesses and it's fine, right? Because we're all different. speaker-1: And that's where I feel so bad for your friend because not only did he, you know, rob you of a friendship, but also he robbed the world of helping with climate. You know, like he everyone could have benefited. Not not him personally. I'm just saying I feel the same way with my THC. I have a bigger I I wrote a poem the other day. I wish I would have ⁓ may maybe I can find it and read it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I I do this men's group ⁓ and I didn't actually end up making it to this one, but they asked everyone to share a poem that they wrote. So I just wrote this poem and it was about ⁓ my soul's purpose, what is it, why ⁓ I know it's more than drinking wine and smoking weed and scrolling on Instagram. I c I can't remember the exact ⁓ metaphors I used, but and then something about ⁓ I and I feel this immense regret for all the books that I've never read sitting on my ex-girlfriend's shelf ⁓ c collecting dust. Something like that. ⁓ so that that piece of it, like the the motivation to do what my soul's calling is, I think weed has robbed me of that. I don't know what my soul's calling is at this age, which I'm not saying it's only that, but I think maybe your friend kind of had the same effect where he had his soul's calling, he t turned to the weed, it made him 'Cause you get that feeling of everything is okay in my life. It's almost a zen feeling when you're smoking weed. And it's a a biohack 'cause you can do it in two seconds. You don't have to do the work of feeling that zen. You just that's I think why I don't have the career. I don't focus on one thing. It's because I smoke and I'm fine and I know everything else is more important and I have enough money to pay rent and I can go on vacations and I can see friends and I have everything I need and I have enough money. I'm always worried about money, but I have enough and I know w it'll be there. So Because of that I think I've gotten some immense benefits, but also there's been some immense drawbacks to it. speaker-2: Weed may have taken away something from you if you play the game of our economy. But if you play the biological game, it may be beneficial if you combine it in the proper way, right? Like like if you ⁓ if you use it as an amplifier but not as a addictive drug. Mm-hmm. That is the key th and I know this is the this is the tricky thing because the anxiety sometime crawls up and then you can just like use it as a classical drug. speaker-1: Yeah, and the habit, the ritual of it, getting fresh air, stepping outside, smok P that's why cigarette smokers have such a hard time quitting too. They because it's fresh air, deep breaths, like there's ritual to it. It's like your morning cup of coffee for most people. Like it's so comforting. speaker-2: Maybe the truth is to reflect a little bit more kind of what are the experiences you actually have when smoking weed and you've and you had a memory, right? Because that could be the best guide for you, what is your purpose? So if you think about it, what were the s the memories that my brain recorded in order to tell me that this is important for me, biologically? Because it has some it could have some kind of a direction on purpose, right? Because otherwise the brain would not record it. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think because of ⁓ the fact that I like I said, I've had so many friends and experiences and a lot of them do smoke. I I do have quite a few of those memories, ⁓ more than the average person were if I was just sitting at home in my basement playing video games, which I've spent countless hours doing that at times too. I don't remember any of that. ⁓ you know, so much of it I don't remember. But because of doing it with friends so often, I I do have quite a few good memories. So maybe it didn't rob me as much as I thought originally. Yeah. speaker-0: Sounds like so it sounds like the key is sparingly and with friends. Right? speaker-2: Or in nature, right? Kind of just like always or yeah, or or am whatever if you want to amplify n nature experiences, laughter or friends, you can kind of just like do that and and in a way it's just a the point when I mean Luke explained it I think extremely well. In the moment when you feel it when you are kind of just like using it differently. You just just feel it. It's like it's literally you are y you know when it's too much. speaker-0: Nature. Did you ever get to a point where you just couldn't feel high anymore because your tolerance was so high? speaker-1: Mm no, not not like completely on high. It w it definitely I I it always worked, but it wasn't at like over like it would be just my normal, my baseline kind of. But I could still feel high, I still had the ⁓ sense of more expanded ⁓ emotional intelligence, ⁓ which is what I think it provides for me most if I had to say the benefit is like it just makes me feel more emotionally intelligent and able to connect with people and able to remember to do the things that really matter in life. speaker-0: You ever plan on like c completely quitting? speaker-1: That's a tough one because ⁓ it's really hard for me to use it sparingly. I've I've tried to do that and I've I've quit completely and then decided I was gonna use it sparingly and done that successfully for a week or two or maybe up to a month sometimes. But as soon as that weekend comes where I'm smoking three days in a row with friends and I've done it all day, every day for three days, then I'm right back to it. It's yeah it's it's really hard for me to balance it like that. So I kind of feel like I have to either never do it or do it all the time. That that that's a cop out. That's me being content and s if I really dedicate myself to it, I think I could do it sparingly just when I need it or just when friends or nature are involved. I think the as speaker-2: It's almost n also no no no real conclusion. I think it that the philosophical question is the bigger one, right? Like what is what is a good life? What we are portrayed on that you need to be rich and successful is not a good life biologically. I can clearly state that. And the friends, the laughter, enjoy being content in nature, and as I'm just repeating what all cannabis gives you is fundamental. So it's kinda just like the the only thing I believe is just try to get Get some some dopamine from the real world and make a memory from it. That's the key thing. That's that's I think is the key thing. speaker-0: Well thank you so much Luke for joining us. speaker-1: My pleasure. I just have to say, Axel, I feel like you can count. You have one more friend here and me today. That was really, really enlightening. And yeah, I f I felt like ⁓ very honored to be able to talk to somebody of your caliber and get kind of some more information. Cause like you said, it really is just all about having the information before you make the decision, which every decision in life is that way, but THC is a really A big one and that's often overlooked, and I think that's a detriment to anyone that wants to decide for themselves whether or not it has a place in their life. speaker-2: Lastly I just feel that everybody understands there's more things to be proud of than just money. Exactly. And that's the key thing, right? So so whenever w th this comes this sneaks in, this feeling that I'm worthless because I I'm not rich There's yeah. As as y as we have heard, I mean being being invited to to so many weddings is a new benchmark for pride on friends, right? I mean, very clearly. I I it is. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. speaker-0: Yeah. Money money is overrated. ⁓ and there's there's a lot more to life. Yeah. Let us know what ⁓ you guys think about all this. Leave a comment. Thank you so much. And I I will see you guys next week. Thank you.