Outer Orbit: Why User-Centred Design Matters in the Space Industry의 전체 녹취록

someone that has a problem. 00:01:42.916 --> 00:01:47.956 So first of all, we understand what their problem is and we observe it as well. 00:01:47.956 --> 00:01:50.866 It's about listening, it's about observing, it's about really understanding 00:01:50.866 --> 00:01:56.006 what they go through, and then we identify what they need to solve 00:01:56.006 --> 00:01:59.646 their problems or what we need to do to make their experience better. 00:01:59.886 --> 00:02:02.406 So something that probably we haven't touched on, and it's quite 00:02:02.406 --> 00:02:06.156 interesting, is the experience side of things like designing experiences. 00:02:06.156 --> 00:02:10.326 We want people to have good experiences when using something. 00:02:10.326 --> 00:02:12.015 When doing something when... 00:02:12.027 --> 00:02:15.147 Dallas Campbell: Like the kind of like the interface of a piece of technology? 00:02:15.577 --> 00:02:18.007 Giulia Bencini: I think that's the crossover between service 00:02:18.007 --> 00:02:20.767 design and user experience design. 00:02:21.077 --> 00:02:25.127 User experience, which is usually connected with user interface design, 00:02:25.202 --> 00:02:27.562 is most of the times quite digital. 00:02:27.862 --> 00:02:30.552 So we're talking about apps, we're talking about websites, we're 00:02:30.552 --> 00:02:32.802 talking about digital interfaces. 00:02:33.142 --> 00:02:37.792 Whereas when we talk about service design, we go a bit wider and we can apply the 00:02:37.792 --> 00:02:42.682 experience or like shaping and designing an experience to different things like. 00:02:42.942 --> 00:02:44.792 Even just like using an object. 00:02:44.792 --> 00:02:48.242 So maybe we're not the ones that design the object, but we are the ones that 00:02:48.242 --> 00:02:52.892 understand how to design the object in the best way so that people can have the 00:02:52.892 --> 00:02:54.722 best experience that they need to have. 00:02:55.112 --> 00:02:59.762 Or designing the experience that you have when you enter a space, for example. 00:03:00.042 --> 00:03:03.472 So service design is a bit wider and it is in that sense really 00:03:03.472 --> 00:03:07.522 connected to user research, which sometimes is a thing on its own. 00:03:07.547 --> 00:03:09.812 Dallas Campbell: Am I right in thinking then it's, I should be thinking not 00:03:09.812 --> 00:03:12.507 of a physical object, but a problem. 00:03:12.749 --> 00:03:14.189 Let's use your farmer analogy. 00:03:14.369 --> 00:03:18.869 So you were talking about how farmers can use data from space to better plan, to 00:03:18.869 --> 00:03:23.729 better understand their land usage, to use perhaps modeling to look into the future 00:03:23.729 --> 00:03:26.489 to see how things are going to change. 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:31.411 Using that as an example, give us a sense of where you fit into that. 00:03:32.071 --> 00:03:36.120 Giulia Bencini: So in that sense is first of all, at the very beginning, I go to the 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:42.450 farmer and I have a chat with the farmer and I try to understand what they're 00:03:42.450 --> 00:03:46.650 facing in terms of challenges or problems in managing their land, for example. 00:03:47.220 --> 00:03:50.970 Once I have those information and then summarize them in a way that is 00:03:50.970 --> 00:03:55.760 understandable and clear and I try to extract technology requirements, so 00:03:55.760 --> 00:03:59.710 what do we need to do from a technology point of view to solve the challenges 00:03:59.710 --> 00:04:01.200 that the farmer was talking about? 00:04:01.310 --> 00:04:04.220 And I work with my technical colleagues in doing that as well. 00:04:04.220 --> 00:04:07.571 Usually when we do interviews and user research, we always have technical 00:04:07.571 --> 00:04:09.011 colleagues observing as well. 00:04:09.331 --> 00:04:12.181 We bring people along, which I think is a power that we have as 00:04:12.566 --> 00:04:13.826 Dallas Campbell: So you do kind of market research. 00:04:13.864 --> 00:04:16.384 Giulia Bencini: We call it user research, but yeah it is market 00:04:16.384 --> 00:04:21.754 research as well sometimes and we bring back findings or insights that then 00:04:21.784 --> 00:04:23.644 inform the technology development. 00:04:23.644 --> 00:04:25.384 So we have those insights. 00:04:25.469 --> 00:04:27.509 Dallas Campbell: You'll go, oh, farmers, they really wanna know about 00:04:27.509 --> 00:04:32.689 this particular thing, and then you pass that knowledge onto the Satellite 00:04:32.689 --> 00:04:36.509 builders or the data and say, look, can you build it a bit more like that? 00:04:36.509 --> 00:04:37.599 Because that's actually what we want. 00:04:37.724 --> 00:04:40.904 Giulia Bencini: Yeah, so that then you're gonna have people that buy it and then 00:04:40.954 --> 00:04:42.844 once they develop it, we test it as well. 00:04:42.844 --> 00:04:46.144 So something else that we do is then once we have something, we 00:04:46.144 --> 00:04:49.024 take it, we go back to the farmer, we say, look, we have this thing. 00:04:49.024 --> 00:04:50.284 Can you try and use it? 00:04:50.624 --> 00:04:53.144 Maybe in front of us so that we can see how you use it, and we 00:04:53.144 --> 00:04:55.784 see if it's actually like helping you and solving your problem. 00:04:56.184 --> 00:04:59.428 And then we iterate and change whatever doesn't work to make it 00:04:59.458 --> 00:05:00.958 even a better product basically. 00:05:01.138 --> 00:05:02.188 Dallas Campbell: And what's that gonna look like? 00:05:02.188 --> 00:05:04.948 We talk, obviously talk a lot about space technology on this podcast. 00:05:04.978 --> 00:05:08.938 As space becomes increasingly more important as we become increasingly 00:05:08.938 --> 00:05:14.008 more reliant on it, as users, as the data that we get from space 00:05:14.098 --> 00:05:19.708 exponentially increases,

what does the sort of future of your world look like? 00:05:19.788 --> 00:05:20.008 Giulia Bencini: So... 00:05:20.253 --> 00:05:21.723 Dallas Campbell: Can we make it more user friendly? 00:05:22.263 --> 00:05:22.863 Giulia Bencini: Yeah, exactly. 00:05:22.863 --> 00:05:29.958 I think a lot is about making sense of the amount of data that we have now and 00:05:29.958 --> 00:05:31.758 we will have more and more in the future. 00:05:32.188 --> 00:05:37.408 So translating those data into things, applications, being it a 00:05:37.408 --> 00:05:41.488 software or something else that people like farmers can use. 00:05:41.918 --> 00:05:46.678 But at the same time it's also about, I think, simulating technology 00:05:46.678 --> 00:05:51.338 development and helping our more technical colleagues, in thinking about 00:05:51.338 --> 00:05:55.388 the future and what we need to develop ahead of developing it in that sense. 00:05:55.980 --> 00:05:58.697 Dallas Campbell: Rather than just accepting a particular future, 00:05:58.697 --> 00:06:02.777 what it looks like actually being part of the shaping of the future. 00:06:02.842 --> 00:06:04.307 Giulia Bencini: A preferred, yes, precisely. 00:06:04.307 --> 00:06:08.842 So, I do like thinking about futures thinking as something that involves 00:06:09.232 --> 00:06:14.977 a proactive engagement with what we want to go towards and like, once 00:06:14.977 --> 00:06:18.457 we understand what the future might look like and what is preferred 00:06:18.504 --> 00:06:20.649 versus what is maybe more likely. 00:06:20.829 --> 00:06:24.909 We have then kind of a route that we can design to reach what 00:06:24.909 --> 00:06:26.319 we prefer to reach in a way. 00:06:27.039 --> 00:06:28.119 Dallas Campbell: Kind of making it more human. 00:06:28.389 --> 00:06:31.929 I always think that in, in the kind of wild complexity of modern life, 00:06:32.299 --> 00:06:33.919 we forget what it is to be human. 00:06:34.349 --> 00:06:37.471 Giulia Bencini: But also I think to that point, like I do think design as a 00:06:37.501 --> 00:06:40.501 fun methodology and approach to things. 00:06:40.841 --> 00:06:44.941 There's so many parts of like the work that I do now that needs creativity. 00:06:44.941 --> 00:06:48.121 Even just when interacting with people, when organizing workshops, 00:06:48.331 --> 00:06:49.506 Dallas Campbell: Oh, tell me about the workshops. 00:06:49.671 --> 00:06:50.421 Giulia Bencini: Yeah, that's a big part... 00:06:50.496 --> 00:06:52.256 Dallas Campbell: What happens in a, what happens in a a workshop? 00:06:52.381 --> 00:06:55.801 Giulia Bencini: That's usually the part where we bring people together and we 00:06:55.801 --> 00:07:00.161 make them share things and empathize with each other and do things together. 00:07:00.236 --> 00:07:01.476 Dallas Campbell: Like what kind of things do you do? 00:07:01.746 --> 00:07:05.296 Giulia Bencini: So in one of the projects that I worked on a

couple of years ago 00:07:05.316 --> 00:07:10.296 now, we brought people together from a company that was trying to develop 00:07:10.296 --> 00:07:14.866 a software that was using space data, local authorities and private companies. 00:07:14.866 --> 00:07:17.476 So it was different types of stakeholders in different markets. 00:07:17.776 --> 00:07:21.586 We brought them together to understand the potential of that technology and 00:07:21.586 --> 00:07:25.456 understand at the same time how they might use the technology, but also like what 00:07:25.456 --> 00:07:31.121 were the really key problems that those stakeholders were feeling and to which 00:07:31.121 --> 00:07:33.071 the technology needed to be adapted to. 00:07:33.071 --> 00:07:36.006 So it was just like so nice being there and seeing everyone connecting 00:07:36.006 --> 00:07:39.046 and talking and being able to work together towards a solution. 00:07:39.106 --> 00:07:41.691 Dallas Campbell: I'm a big fan of people coming together and we've, we 00:07:41.691 --> 00:07:43.131 kind of have lost that a little bit. 00:07:43.181 --> 00:07:44.321 I'm a big fan of people coming together. 00:07:44.501 --> 00:07:48.458 I mean in a workshop do you do fun stuff that you know, when I think 00:07:48.458 --> 00:07:51.908 of sort of workshops, I always think it's good to play games and do things 00:07:51.908 --> 00:07:53.543 just to make people feel human again. 00:07:53.873 --> 00:07:55.733 Giulia Bencini: Yeah, exactly it is basically, and that's where 00:07:55.733 --> 00:07:56.903 the creativity comes in as well. 00:07:56.908 --> 00:08:00.928 We need to develop activities that will allow us to get the things that we need. 00:08:01.318 --> 00:08:03.928 But at the same time, we need things that are simple, that are 00:08:03.928 --> 00:08:08.218 fun, that are engaging, and it's never a frontal discussion like 00:08:08.218 --> 00:08:10.018 somebody presenting to an audience. 00:08:10.018 --> 00:08:13.258 It's always like groups of people working together, using post-its 00:08:13.348 --> 00:08:15.268 using Lego, and just like doing... 00:08:15.393 --> 00:08:18.813 Dallas Campbell: Okay, gimme a, gimme the example of a creative of a game that you 00:08:18.813 --> 00:08:22.293 would play in a workshop that would open that would open up people's creativity. 00:08:22.608 --> 00:08:25.688 Giulia Bencini: Lego is quite an interesting one because people usually 00:08:25.688 --> 00:08:29.048 look at it as something that kids use and they're a bit skeptical when they 00:08:29.048 --> 00:08:33.308 see it in a workshop and then they use it and they're like mind blown 00:08:33.368 --> 00:08:34.428 Dallas Campbell: Do you get into build things? 00:08:34.452 --> 00:08:36.342 Like do you say, go build me a house or... 00:08:36.552 --> 00:08:39.822 Giulia Bencini: They're really useful to visualize things and we usually 00:08:39.822 --> 00:08:41.562 use them when creating scenarios. 00:08:41.922 --> 00:08:46.242 So we usually give a bit of a framework or some boundaries to work within, 00:08:46.402 --> 00:08:49.799 depending on like what we're working on, and then people have these literally 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:53.849 like these pieces of Lego to create what they think the solution might be. 00:08:53.849 --> 00:08:57.539 Or maybe just even map the relationships between stakeholders 00:08:57.539 --> 00:09:00.209 that are gonna use that solution, how they interact with each other. 00:09:00.479 --> 00:09:03.599 So it's just like nice to have something physical to be able 00:09:03.599 --> 00:09:05.789 to move and use and visualize. 00:09:05.789 --> 00:09:07.499 Dallas Campbell: Well, it sounds like it's a way of making people 00:09:07.499 --> 00:09:09.029 just feel less self-conscious. 00:09:09.088 --> 00:09:14.347 Because suddenly when you are engaged in play, whether it's Lego or some kind 00:09:14.347 --> 00:09:17.947 of activity, you suddenly forget about the big stuff and you are concentrating 00:09:17.947 --> 00:09:21.467 on the rules of the game, and then you become open and you stop thinking 00:09:21.467 --> 00:09:23.447 about, oh, am I doing the right thing? 00:09:23.502 --> 00:09:27.602 And actually just letting the kind of creativity flow, which is good. 00:09:27.882 --> 00:09:30.412 Giulia Bencini: Yeah, precisely and I think as well, like you might not 00:09:30.412 --> 00:09:33.592 develop the right thing, but then you have something visual that allows you 00:09:33.592 --> 00:09:37.762 to see why is not the right thing and you stimulate discussions, like, we 00:09:37.762 --> 00:09:42.892 haven't talked about it as much in in the podcast, but visualizing is really 00:09:42.892 --> 00:09:45.112 a superpower that we have as designers. 00:09:45.397 --> 00:09:46.087 Dallas Campbell: Yes. 00:09:46.177 --> 00:09:48.755 Well, that's the thing, when we talk about design we think visual. 00:09:48.755 --> 00:09:52.660 We think of objects, we think of clothes or interiors or whatever it might be. 00:09:53.170 --> 00:09:58.000 And so how do you encourage that visual sense that's so important in design 00:09:58.060 --> 00:10:00.505 within this rather more amorphous space? 00:10:01.465 --> 00:10:04.095 Giulia Bencini: I think for us it's probably mostly on 00:10:04.095 --> 00:10:05.835 us designers to visualize. 00:10:05.865 --> 00:10:10.305 We always get involved in very technical conversations and things that we talk 00:10:10.305 --> 00:10:11.985 about, but we don't necessarily see. 00:10:12.135 --> 00:10:17.405 And when we map those things, then people are able to have a baseline 00:10:17.405 --> 00:10:20.915 in something that we all look at and we can have a discussion on. 00:10:21.185 --> 00:10:24.735 And for us, it means mainly like mapping things or visualizing things 00:10:24.755 --> 00:10:31.955 like processes or relationships between people or an ecosystem and how the 00:10:31.955 -->

00:10:36.765 elements within that ecosystem are connected or related to each other 00:10:36.765 --> 00:10:41.475 or even part of that ecosystem and I think that's a really, like, it's 00:10:41.475 --> 00:10:44.565 not for the sake of visualizing, but it's really like that's a tool that is 00:10:44.565 --> 00:10:46.485 not a final tool as a chair might be. 00:10:46.755 --> 00:10:50.405 It's something that you take, you bring to people, and you let people 00:10:50.485 --> 00:10:53.845 input into it, like give feedback and you change it and you iterate 00:10:53.845 --> 00:10:58.399 and you move that way to create understanding between people and help 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:00.049 decision making as well in that sense. 00:11:00.479 --> 00:11:01.089 Dallas Campbell: Do you enjoy it? 00:11:01.544 --> 00:11:02.354 Giulia Bencini: It's very interesting. 00:11:02.354 --> 00:11:04.664 I feel like every time I start a new project, I become a bit 00:11:04.664 --> 00:11:08.224 of an expert in something new, which is extremely exciting. 00:11:08.294 --> 00:11:10.004 Dallas Campbell: I think all the designer designers, they're all 00:11:10.004 --> 00:11:13.894 obsessive and I understand that obsessive creative brain, you know? 00:11:13.894 --> 00:11:14.464 I get it. 00:11:14.624 --> 00:11:15.794 Who's your favorite designer? 00:11:15.844 --> 00:11:17.974 I'm obsessed by Charles and Ray Eames. 00:11:18.219 --> 00:11:20.919 Giulia Bencini: Maybe I'm a bit biased because I'm Italian as well, but 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.579 Bruno Munari is probably one of my favorites and just the work that he's 00:11:24.579 --> 00:11:29.502 done as well with kids' books and that simple language and playful language. 00:11:29.822 --> 00:11:32.512 Dallas Campbell: Playful that's a, yeah, I'm a big fan of playful. 00:11:32.512 --> 00:11:35.402 I think playful is just like really key in all areas of life. 00:11:35.452 --> 00:11:38.182 I worry that we've become, we're sort of, we think of 00:11:38.182 --> 00:11:41.722 playful as something not valued. 00:11:42.452 --> 00:11:46.092 Actually I think it's, I think it's of real value, and I think we can learn a 00:11:46.092 --> 00:11:48.277 lot from kind of the work that you do. 00:11:48.907 --> 00:11:52.987 Which has a little playful element as a way of getting people to be 00:11:52.987 --> 00:11:55.477 their best in whatever area it is. 00:11:55.566 --> 00:11:57.186 Giulia Bencini: And I think like that playfulness as well 00:11:57.186 --> 00:12:01.706 is brings with it, the fact that you are allowed to make mistakes. 00:12:02.326 --> 00:12:02.539 Dallas Campbell: Correct. 00:12:02.726 --> 00:12:02.906 Thank you. 00:12:03.001 --> 00:12:04.731 Giulia Bencini: And that's something that is really important. 00:12:04.811 --> 00:12:06.371 Especially like if you do them early on. 00:12:06.371 --> 00:12:09.711 That's the best way to de-risk something before it's too late. 00:12:10.081 --> 00:12:12.401 So, I do think design has that power. 00:12:12.616 --> 00:12:14.476 Dallas Campbell: Thank you very much for sticking around. 00:12:14.476 --> 00:12:15.628 It's been lovely to chat further. 00:12:15.628 --> 00:12:16.258 It's been great. 00:12:16.308 --> 00:12:17.898 Maybe I'll come up and play with some Lego. 00:12:17.998 --> 00:12:20.248 I'm an eighties kid, so I grew up with space lego. 00:12:20.248 --> 00:12:22.318 Part of the reason I'm here is we had space Lego. 00:12:22.318 --> 00:12:25.338 It was a thing and here I am. 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:31.110 To hear future episodes of In Orbit, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast 00:12:31.110 --> 00:12:35.730 app and head over to YouTube to watch the video versions of all of our discussions. 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:39.480 And if you'd like to find out more about how Space is empowering your 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:44.580 industry, visit the Catapult website or join them on social media.