Devotion and Discipline: The Yin and Yang of Showing Up의 전체 녹취록

as we go along with something we're doing repeatedly. 00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:07.520 Right. 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:40.719 And then if we think of devotion as warm, open-hearted, caring action rooted in meaning, purpose, and identity in our values, well um for me, it's that uh warmth, open-heartedness, and alignment with what I care about being expressed in action that for me pairs so beautifully with discipline and makes that effortful showing up um intrinsically motivated and more um engaging. 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:53.280 So they're compliments, but both of us have spoken at times of how people will say to us, Oh, um, you're so disciplined to do X, Y, and Z. 00:03:53.439 --> 00:04:01.199 And it doesn't feel like that because there's such an element of satisfaction in some of the elements of how we've shaped our lives. 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:02.479 Sure. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.520 Yeah, but you know, back to the discipline piece. 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:11.919 And I think the reason why I I didn't consider you disciplined was because of my experience of discipline. 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.639 There was no devotion in my journey as an athlete. 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:18.800 It was it was all discipline. 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:26.000 And the the fuel, the reason behind that discipline was all fear. 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:38.000 It was the fear of not making a team, the fear of getting beaten, the fear of losing, the fear of judgment, of not being tough enough, or or what have you. 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:55.120 Discipline came from a place of of lack, to use sort of a a new age jargon kind of expression, but there was no uh yeah, there was no devotion that was sustaining that the discipline required to what I did. 00:04:55.279 --> 00:05:03.199 What I did, and what you did too, obviously, required nose down, grind, get it done hard. 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:13.759 And you sort of had to, didn't sort of, you had to ignore the discomfort or or at least live with it, and just know that it was part of the gig. 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:21.839 I never, I never saw myself, though, having said that, I never saw myself as a disciplined athlete. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.480 People would say, wow, you must be so disciplined. 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:31.600 No, this is just what I do, and I have to do it because of what I want at the end. 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:40.079 And what I wanted at the end, sure, reward and reputation, all that sort of stuff, but it was more the fear of not having that. 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.800 So uh it took me a long time to break loose from there. 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.079 But and it worked. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:06:02.720 I mean, hell, it it did its job, I guess, to some degree, but the devotion aspect of this yin yin and yang relationship, there was no uh there was no devotion piece until much longer along the path. 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:17.839 And so within uh traditional and sometimes even contemporary culture, sometimes you're talking about discipline without devotion can be force, rigidity, self-criticism, compulsive striving, and lead to burnout, which is what you expect. 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:19.120 For sure, absolutely. 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:39.680 And devotion void of discipline can be beautiful intentions that that never well um it I would say more inspiration because it for me devotion is the action, it's embodying the action from what you love, from your inspiration, and then putting it into action. 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:41.439 That is the devotional piece. 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.160 Um when I when I like I like this discipline here. 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.759 Discipline says, This is what I said I would do. 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.279 That was me. 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:52.879 That was all me. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:57.360 And then the devotion says, This is why it matters to me. 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:05.519 There, there are like I didn't have a higher, you know, this beautiful reason or why it mattered to me. 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:09.279 My the reason why it mattered to me was quite dark, actually. 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:21.839 And something that I didn't appreciate at the time was was limiting and dysfunctional, and all those all those pieces that interfered with what I actually wanted to attain. 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:40.160 And that's the ass backwardness of of elite sport in in many instances, is that there is a dark element to it that can be, thank you, that often perpetuates the an old school approach to discipline. 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:40.639 Right? 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:41.439 Is that fair? 00:07:42.160 --> 00:08:12.480 In in some pockets, I would say that with the evolution of sport psychology, the same with workplace psychology, the the recognition that when we're connected to service and meaning, um, that those elements sustain us and activating our caring system, uh, all of those pieces fortify our ability to show up and engage in meaningful, sometimes, oftentimes difficult work. 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:16.319 So uh But I if I can just jump in there. 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:26.240 Uh I would say it's not it's not just sport because we see it in the clients we work with who show up on you know, sort of the on the edge of burnout. 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:26.720 Yes. 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.639 Or have begun the process of I can't I can't do this anymore. 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:31.040 Yes. 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.559 I've run out of reasons to come to work every day. 00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:46.480 And and so invariably, when you it doesn't take much digging to realize they have been a grinder their entire career and they've relied on discipline to get them to where they are. 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:48.240 And now it's failing them. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:48.799 Sorry, go ahead. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:59.600 The research on workplace engagement, on uh sustainable effort, again, meaning and purpose are central to that in the

workplace as well. 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:15.519 Um, so there's uh there's a shift uh to recognizing that those are important, that knowing our why for our engagement um makes it easier to sustain work that asks a lot of ourselves. 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:16.080 Right. 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:17.919 And and I was that as an athlete. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:26.799 I believed all you needed was a very strong disciplined muscle and to get through tough times, what have you, right? 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:38.080 But and in my second attempt for the 1992 Olympics, that's all I had was discipline because I didn't I I hated rowing, right? 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:58.240 I had arrived at a place where I did not enjoy it, but it was the only thing I could do to garner the redemption and the revenge and every and the retribution that I was in, I was hell-bent set on in that in that uh uh quadrennial, in that comeback for 92 after Seoul. 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:05.840 And so uh it was a head-down, get through it, get her done kind of mentality. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:08.799 And it's no wonder it took me where it took me. 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:23.200 So at the time I didn't understand why, but now obviously hindsight, it was textbook that it that it uh that it was so powerful initially and then waned quite quickly, six months or so. 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:31.279 So but you know, it's uh and as I said, it's not just athletes, we see it all the time in the people we work with. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:11:15.120 Yes, and uh coming back to what we've referenced in other episodes in terms of how we attend to the world in the Gilcrest work, uh being in task mode, uh a left dominant way of attending, it's ticking off the boxes, getting things done, versus a relational mode of what do I care about, what am I in service of, and how do I embody my care and stay connected to that in ways that I then turn to engaging in what needs to be done that may be repetitive in terms of showing up every day, but the qualitative difference is there. 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:25.120 So there's there's um a tenderness with the toughness that comes together when we mix devotion and discipline. 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:32.480 And now I'm at a place where I realize one without the other is uh is a limited recipe, right? 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:37.840 It you the the discipline requires, it's it's an and, it's not an or. 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:50.080 And uh when you couple it with the devotion, it just you've got a you've got a more powerful but an also a more sustainable source of fuel. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:56.080 Yes, what of doing hard thing hard things and treating ourselves with care, that they're not opposites. 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.639 Yeah, and that would have been blasphemy in my day. 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:20.879 The idea of being uh compassionate or soft on yourself, is as it were, would have been seen as a weakness or or sort of, I don't know, this may sound really old, but almost against the code, if you will, because it was um it just wasn't part of the dialogue. 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.840 Like the the idea of hey, take it easy on yourself. 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:34.879 Like, no, that's that's never going to be an expression that that I would have heard, or you know, it just was more and how often. 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:48.639 And uh yeah, not that this notion of self-compassion uh as a way to get to that devotion piece, just um yeah, just wasn't part of the culture. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:50.639 Yes. 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:59.519 Uh more typical, the cultural associations of grind, sacrifice, control, willpowers, no excuses, take no prisoners. 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:10.799 Whereas devotion relating to love, reverence, loyalty, care, wholeheartedness, that was a world that wasn't part of your experience and and still And not just me. 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:11.679 Yes, yeah. 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.759 I mean, and I'd say it's still prevalent. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:31.679 Goodness, you only have to watch or listen to uh hockey hockey pundits or or any any sports pundit describe a competitive paradigm, and you know, maybe more so now. 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:40.879 You're hearing words like love and brotherhood and sisterhood, and yeah, you know, that that's a little, I wouldn't say mainstream, but you're hearing it more. 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:45.279 Um so there is a shift, and for the better. 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:57.279 And for me, my shift was was really understanding that I didn't want to perpetuate an old approach to coaching, to high performance. 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:05.200 So what I had been taught, which was highly combative, win at all costs, sacrifice, grind, work harder than the next guy. 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:10.399 So when it was my turn to coach, that was my bag of tools. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:12.639 And it worked, right? 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:13.279 It did. 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:32.080 But when I came to the decision that I didn't want to keep that narrative alive, and I changed my process to adapt what I learned from you, row because you love rowing, embrace your competitor as a as an opportunity, not a threat. 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:39.440 Um, everything was about getting better each day, you know, a more holistic approach, right? 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:44.480 There was no win at all costs, umbrella holding the whole thing together. 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:51.279 It was how fast can we get, how how much can we improve, how much can this transform us? 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.879 And initially that took discipline, right? 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.200 To not be the old coach. 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:07.200 When the feedback, when I watched the process unfold, when I watched the impact of that form of coaching, then boom, I was sold. 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:07.840 That was it. 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.840 I didn't need the discipline anymore. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:16.720 It then became um

devotion, devotion to the transformation of athletes. 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:25.440 Now, it just so turns out that when you change the lives of a of a young athlete in a positive manner, invariably they they become better athletes. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:31.279 And so as they won more national championships, that there was just it would become a no-brainer. 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.519 How do you how do you even argue this? 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:34.879 This is the way. 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:41.600 Sure, initial discipline, but once it's coupled with devotion, it be it almost becomes um unstoppable. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:51.759 I certainly have found it to be a very potent mix and they they balance each other. 00:15:53.200 --> 00:16:13.200 The devotion without uh engaging in something because it really aligns with our values and feels worthy of uh occupying a huge uh space in our lives and then the discipline to organize our life around what we say matters. 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:13.919 Right. 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:22.960 Um But when you were an athlete, like how did you how did you land on on the side of devotion? 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.480 Like who who was your what got you there? 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:34.960 I think uh literally a bump on the head, um a clarity about what matters. 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.600 Was that through a person or through an experience? 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:46.080 Uh well my my first year university, um uh I I I returned to that question uh over time. 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:59.360 So the when I um first year university had uh got hit by a car riding my bike, woke up in the hospital, didn't remember getting hit. 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:25.920 Um I asked when the possibility of not running or competing again was on the table, it invited the question uh do I value this because my academics had been front and center, but I appreciated the experiences I'd had through sport and got clarity that I really wanted to see what I was capable of doing. 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:44.319 Um so that element combined with the how later, when in 88 I was fourth at the Olympic trials and didn't ask reach my my goal of making the Olympic team and felt like I had blinders on. 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:53.680 I realized that if I was going to explore my long prop long-term potential, I wanted to the how of what I was doing needed to be different. 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:56.480 The inherent quality of it. 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:21.599 So um with reflection of how do I want to live my life, clarifying values, and then the series of of um exploration and uh reflection on uh how do I personally define success and seeing relationship at the heart of that. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:35.279 So returning again to the question of clarity: what do I want my life to be about and what matters, and lining up with that, and then feeling how that energized what I was doing. 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:51.440 So inviting people to explore before you hunker down to

get disciplined about something, asking the question, what is this in service of and why does this matter? 00:18:51.680 --> 00:19:21.759 And when we have clarity of that, then a whole host of things that can feel like scattered effort effort can sort of line up into, for example, I want to have health and vitality so I think about how I organize my life so that I have the energy to engage the things that matter most to me, because um health is the first wealth, as the expression goes. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:28.559 And I want the energy and well-being to engage in things that I care about. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.720 Um But but discipline's gotta have a I I don't know. 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.559 I don't know how you get my hands. 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:35.119 Okay. 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.640 So, but do you not see how the discipline comes first? 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:41.359 They come together. 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:55.440 And I'll go back to, I think about uh as an athlete, as a teenager in rural Nova Scotia, I didn't enjoy going out to train by myself as much as I love getting out on the trails here. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.319 Okay. 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:11.519 Um, it was very effortful, and it took a uh a push for me to get out the doors at time, at times, whereas um the enjoyment factor went up exponentially because I love being on forest trails. 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:20.079 Um and the climate was much when you came out here, yeah, much kinder than uh some of the severe weather that I had. 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.799 So it required discipline though. 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:23.680 Do you get my point? 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.119 Like yes, I'm not yeah, it required discipline. 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:35.680 I'm just saying that devotion makes it it wraps around discipline in a way that makes it more sustainable. 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:37.759 There's still effort, okay. 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:56.160 Um, but that passion and open-heartedness, even the physiology of it, when we activate our caring system, it downregulates stress hormones in ways that we tolerate cortisol and adrenaline um better, and there's less wear and tear on the body. 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.160 There's research that shows that it feeds persistence. 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:21.039 So, for example, I think it was David Yeager who did work with um students where when they were told uh when they were invited to engage as an act of caring beyond themselves, they persisted and showed up with more engagement. 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.480 So because there was service inherent in the work? 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:26.240 Because there was service in the work. 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:41.039 So uh so when we uh have devotion and are connected to our care and it gives us the energy and the fuel to show up to the thing that takes discipline. 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:41.519 Right. 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.759 So that's why I feel like they're for me, they really hold hands, especially for how I'm wired. 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:50.160 Yeah, because I love my comforts. 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:59.680 I I um it it just feels like it's the fuel that allows discipline to be sustained. 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:00.720 Okay. 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.000 Okay. 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:20.799 But I I just feel like my experience of discipline, uh, you're you have to pull the discipline bag is bigger at the beginning because you need to pull from that more to get the train going, if you will. 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:24.720 And then the devotion kicks in and goes, Yeah, okay, this is worth it. 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.720 And I'm going to commit myself to this. 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.519 There can be a feedback loop between the two of them. 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:34.079 And I agree with you, when we're starting something new, it's more effortful. 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:45.680 So there's more discipline required for elements of the things that sustain what we're devoted to at the beginning before it's become habituated. 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:55.279 So when we are very practiced at um doing something over and over again, it takes less discipline to show up. 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.240 Uh, it can still be effortful, but there's less discipline involved because we've habituated it. 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:01.200 Yep, I get that. 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:18.559 And um devotion can be the fuel that gets us to sign up and and work with that discipline at the beginning and can sustain us when uh once we've habituated something. 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:24.640 If we don't have devotion and care about it, then uh it might feel like it's just wearing us down. 00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.200 Okay. 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:30.079 So I think they feed on each other and can complement. 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:31.359 Right, right. 00:23:31.519 --> 00:24:08.160 Yeah, I think I appreciate that more in a way now that I that, you know, obviously we've talked about this before, but if someone had had if this devotion piece had been normalized in our culture where you could uh talk about the enjoyment, I guess, um of the process in a way that that wasn't so macho, then yeah, then maybe that might have been allowed in or accepted, if you, you know, if you will. 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.400 And so anyway, I I I think we've evolved. 00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:20.319 I think, you know, based on the people we work with, you it certainly seems like a it's less of a sell, if you will. 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:43.200 There's there's recognition, and there's been a big shift in the time that we've been doing this work, and just looking at self-determination theory in terms of um the recognition that autonomy, purpose, and and positive social relations, how foundational they are for people being engaged in their work and and being productive in the workplace. 00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:43.680 Right. 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:51.279 As we talked about previously, the idea that when

you do something because you say it said you would versus because you were told you better. 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:51.759 Right. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:53.759 Like that's that pulls on different things. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.400 Exactly. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:07.839 The difference between running up a hill uh because I said so, right, uh the effort to do that versus running up a hill because you're excited to see what you can achieve by being committed. 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:38.640 Yeah, I'm so the reason I'm laughing, I'm going back to grade oh goodness, I don't know, grade seven or eight, and we had this crazy um Harriers, I mean, uh what cross-country coach, and we would do hills, and he was a good runner in his youth, and he would run beside us with a stick, and he would whack you with that stick if you slowed down, and he would lose his job, unfortunately. 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:43.519 Yeah, I won't I won't mention the school, but oh my goodness. 00:25:43.680 --> 00:26:00.480 When I think of some of the insane coaches that I had, he would be certainly vying for one of the top positions, but um yeah, I mean that that to me is is a because I said so moment, right? 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.480 And if you don't, you get hit. 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:07.200 So that is pulling discipline because there's no devotion there. 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:09.920 There's there's survival when there's survival. 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.319 I mean, and and you know, and credit where credit's due. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.160 Uh it got us up the hill, right? 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.440 But but there was no enjoyment. 00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:27.599 So we weren't, it's there, weren't it, it wasn't like we finished the workout going, wow man, I can't wait to do hills again next week. 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.160 Right. 00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:31.039 And so and so there's that trade-off. 00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:45.599 You can you can rely on discipline in in those hard moments, but if that's the only fuel you've got, or only tool in the tool in the in the tool bag, then good luck. 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:46.480 Right? 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:53.279 Because it's gonna it's uh it's gonna turn around and grab its own stick and you know give you a SWAT. 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:54.160 Yes. 00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:08.559 And just to contrast that with the energy of uh, you know, a parent with an infant, just the exhaustion that can come with that, and yet it's hopefully so full of love. 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:25.920 Just that the hard thing is the easy thing because you wouldn't think of compromising caring for your child uh and their vulnerability, or even um a sick, a sick dog that's up repeatedly in the middle of the night. 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.160 Right. 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:37.920 You just so want to comfort and care for them in their vulnerability, yeah, that it there's the effort gets dialed down. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:39.839 Yeah, that's an excellent example. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.960 Yeah, because your heart is so engaged with love. 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:45.440 Yeah. 00:27:45.680 --> 00:28:06.799 And I think anyone who who has either helped a sick dog or sick human or you know, being a caregiver or a parent, there it's not like you know, it's not like you yell shut up to the crying baby in the you know, and roll over and put the pillow over your head, right? 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.960 There's that that just does, at least I hope, that does not happen. 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:18.720 You get your ass out of bed and you attend to what needs attending, not be not out of any form of discipline. 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:31.920 You're right, it is absolutely, oh my goodness, there's a part of me that is in stress, yes, and I'm going to do whatever I can in my ability to support. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:50.799 And and at no point, like when I think back to the yeah, to some of those tiring nights or moments or whatever in in the first year, two years, there's uh you know, there's no begrudging or resentment, or it's just what you do. 00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.799 There is something, I don't know, there's got to be a chemical thing going on, but it's oxytocin for the most. 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:57.680 Okay, there you go. 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:06.799 I don't know what mine was, but you have less but something gets you out of bed and some something pulls you to be engaged and helpful, right? 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:26.240 Now, when you so I I don't know how you create another example where a part of you, uh a child, is in in distress and requires your help, like make it about uh I don't know, something uh inanimate. 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:32.400 And yeah, that's that's like uh you can wait till the morning and I'm going back to bed. 00:29:32.799 --> 00:30:05.039 So things that don't have devotion or pull on the heartstrings can get put on the shelf for a while, like filing our taxes can be an example that comes to mind uh until it becomes, oh, this neglected thing interferes with um things I care about uh emotionally and has consequences, so it can uh dial up the motivation to um be disciplined about doing the thing that's that's not um automatically engaging. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:05.599 Yeah. 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:26.319 And and so, and you know, I think of our work when we've been on the road and conditions, you know, we may have had uh sleep challenges, and conditions have not been optimal, and yet we we do what we need to do to take care of ourselves, to show up in service of the people we're working with. 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:37.599 And there's a staining sustaining energy that comes from being really clear about why we're there and how we're serving and caring about the work, uh, how that sustains us. 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:39.519 But when the work ends, there's a crash. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:46.319 Well, yeah, we've we've done something difficult at times that has been a stretch.

00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.279 Yeah, but it matters and that helps sustain right. 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:49.759 You show up. 00:30:50.240 --> 00:31:10.880 I mean, like when uh when when we used to when we go to work in Ontario, so if we're traveling three time zones, arrive late at night on a on a Thursday, uh, you're there for an eight o'clock start the next morning, that's given the time change, that's an ugly moment, right? 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:20.799 But you show up, you sort of rally the troops, if you will, and pull the strength from somewhere, and you get it done. 00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:27.519 And you and you do it with um with a genuine source of of engagement. 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:39.279 But when it's all over and the body can now sort of let itself go, recover, it it takes uh it takes advantage of that. 00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:43.359 And as we've both experienced, there's if we let it and make space for it. 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:43.839 For sure. 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:50.640 Because there's a discipline in recovery as well, in terms of it's not just about the the hard effort. 00:31:50.720 --> 00:32:07.839 Sometimes uh the discipline is in being willing to rest and being willing to take care of ourselves in ways that allow us to be in service of what uh what we want to do and how we want to give. 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:22.000 So it there's an ex it's an example of how um discipline sometimes is doing the hard thing, and the hard thing might be resting when we're so used to just plowing forward. 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:22.319 Right. 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:32.720 I think I've shared with you, I remember one time uh before the 96 Olympics, uh, there's often undulation in in preparation and travel. 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:39.759 And I I went to the track three days in a row before I did a really significant workout. 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:46.799 And uh asking the question, what am I trying to achieve with this? 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:52.079 Being willing to hold back until I was in an adaptive window. 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:58.240 I had an awesome workout when I finally uh kind of did it. 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.720 But that attunement to my body, it wasn't just I have to push, I have to go hard. 00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:05.519 It's what is this work in service of? 00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:13.599 And do we have the the devotion that we're flexible enough to change and adapt? 00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:27.599 Because sometimes there's an association with discipline um free of devotion, and the the meaning and purpose can sometimes lose its way and become obsessive about just doing the things. 00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:28.240 Right. 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.240 Because that wouldn't have happened in our world. 00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:32.319 If it's on the sheet, it's on the sheet. 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:40.799 So if you're scheduled to do 1070 strokers Wednesday morning, you're doing 1070 strokers, and there's no, hey, how are you feeling? 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:41.920 Are you up to this? 00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:44.880 Like that's just not that's not happening. 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:54.079 So, and maybe it should have, I don't know, but um it was more whatever's whatever is scheduled is what's getting done. 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.519 And so, and that and that's where the discipline piece was was holding the wheel all the time. 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:15.840 And you know, one element of that was a team sport, and there's still ways to uh invite the, you know, if someone's about on the verge of getting sick and they just do an uber intense workout that takes them out of the boat, does that serve the team? 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:25.440 Or should that person have adjusted what they were doing to recover sufficiently to advance their fitness in ways that support the team? 00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:27.679 That guy's getting sick. 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:39.199 And now and now, um how do we modify those things to move the collective good forward without expending people? 00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:39.679 Right. 00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:45.519 And take that out of a sport sport in a workplace setting setting and move it into a workplace. 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:55.360 And you know, asking yourself, okay, if it's on if it's on the calendar today, does that mean it gets done regardless? 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:12.000 But I think the question, the pushback becomes, Robin, is okay, am I just getting soft, or is this genuinely a decision that needs to be made to move this to another date where it might be more effective? 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.639 And I think that's that's a legitimate question. 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:16.079 And and for concern. 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:23.840 And to me, that's where devotion really serves the discipline because you are so clear. 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:29.599 It's clarifying, and it allows you to spend less time wasted in that. 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:45.440 There's such alignment with the the care of what you're serving that that something that's going to undermine the purpose doesn't get ticked out of automaticity of I gotta do this thing because it's on the sheet. 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:45.760 Right. 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.840 It's what is this in service of? 00:35:48.000 --> 00:36:00.400 In the same way that you talk about um rigidity in the classroom, when a teacher says, This is Friday, this is the lesson plan, we're doing it, rather than where are these kids at? 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:00.800 Sure. 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.880 What can they take in and how can we optimize the learning experience? 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:05.519 Absolutely. 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:06.320 And good example. 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:13.280 And I think I think what's different there is a seasoned teacher versus a young newbie. 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:21.280 So in your first year, first months, uh, I don't know, until until you kind of figure it out, whatever's on that lesson plan is

getting done. 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:22.960 Come hella high water. 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:45.519 And part of that is coming from this perhaps the stress that a young person in a workplace or in a teaching uh job, their stress level of doing it right and following that doesn't give them the freedom that um somebody that has more experience may have better regulation in their system. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:37:08.159 So they have the flexibility to think more creatively, to problem solve, to have higher order response because of their training and practice, that a nervous beginner maybe got to stick to the plan because uh they don't have the the space within to have a more adaptive response. 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:13.440 Yeah, but I think that adaptive response only comes with experience. 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:28.719 You you've got to put in some you've got to put in some time to know when do you push, when do you change the lesson plan, when do you say this class is not ready or something happened earlier in the day that's affected everyone, I think we need to wait till next class. 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:39.360 Like that doesn't come unless you have the experience and the confidence and the know-how to to know what when do you push and when do you pull back. 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:43.280 And um we tend to get better at life experience. 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:44.800 I think so, absolutely. 00:37:45.039 --> 00:38:06.960 But but um I'm trying to think though, as a coach, you know, if I ever yeah, I guess, I guess I think I'm just wondering if there were times where I delayed a workout because I didn't think the group was ready. 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.960 And I'm gonna say, yeah, maybe more towards the end of my time. 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:18.559 But for the most part, if it was on the schedule, it was happening. 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:26.159 And but mind you, in laying out that schedule, there was a lot of experience that went into that schedule. 00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:31.360 And so it it created time for rest and recovery just through the schedule. 00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.119 It was built into the system, built into the process. 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:46.159 Whereas I think as a younger athlete, I used to get myself into trouble because we would get our week, our training for the week, and then I would find little pockets to add extra workouts. 00:38:46.639 --> 00:38:54.719 So then come Thursday, I'm screwed because I'm so tired that Friday and Saturday are just survival workouts. 00:38:55.119 --> 00:39:01.360 And then finally I met, you know, we were we had to meet with these sports psyches, and he said, Anything, you know, anything you want to talk about? 00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.239 He goes, Yeah, every time I get to Thursday, I'm exhausted. 00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:05.519 So he asked, What are you doing? 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.400 And I told him, he said, Well, give your head a shake, buddy. 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:16.880 What like you're working with a national team coach who knows what they're doing, trust them, trust their their schedule, trust their process. 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.639 And so when I did that, sure, then it things got better. 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:36.320 But my inexperience of an athlete and working under someone else's schedule, always thinking I needed to do uh more was better, led me to to not to to close to burnout. 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:36.960 Yeah, for sure. 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:37.599 Yes. 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:39.679 So that's one extreme. 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.079 But the but the other thing that you were poking at earlier is a willingness. 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:46.880 I don't have to feel like it in order to show up. 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.000 And so um we don't eliminate discomfort to take meaningful action. 00:39:52.559 --> 00:40:18.320 Um commitment to showing up and our values is an important part of being able to actualize our ability to think that's why with you know, with n nowadays, it's funny, you know, as I'm what, as I'm turning 62 tomorrow, I find sometimes discipline is is something I wish I had more of. 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:22.159 Like it seems like that muscle has diminished as I've gotten older. 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:40.159 Now, when I dig into that and I do the research, they link it to uh you know lower levels of testosterone and and just um hormone changes within the male body, or or I don't I don't know the science of it, so I'm not gonna pretend to speak about it and think that I do. 00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.440 But that's the layman terms that I take from that. 00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:50.960 So what I find is that is that I have to flex the disciplined muscle more than I ever used to. 00:40:51.280 --> 00:41:00.320 And that kind of pisses me off that that I've lost that um this is just who I am, this is what I do. 00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:12.480 Uh now I find that uh I can delay a workout or a run or work that needs to get done more easily than than I ever have. 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.320 And yeah, it's it's bizarre. 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:24.239 And some of that can be uh your energy needs are different right now at this point in your life. 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:31.199 And so having a bit more flexibility, so that uh recovery is part of the process. 00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:38.320 See, but what happens is there's an old story in there, right, that says you delay this workout and you're a suck. 00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:38.880 Right. 00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:43.920 And that 17-year-old kid shows up and says, Don't you dare, right? 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.840 So then the battle ensues. 00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:47.760 And and I don't think I'm alone. 00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.400 I think other people have that same uh you know back and forth in their head. 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:59.840 But so the conversation is a little different right now in terms of inviting the question, what is this in service of? 00:42:00.079 -->

00:42:06.559 Will I am I in a an adaptive window to train right now, or is there benefit in delay? 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:16.800 And which is different than um I feel like doing it, which there's motivation there versus I'm willing to do it because it matters. 00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:29.039 And we can, but there's still an assessment of are the energy demands for this am I in that zone and will it be adaptive? 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:35.039 Or because there's also research that shows as we age that we may need more recovery time. 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:43.039 And so if you're using your 17-year-old filter for for your current self, yeah, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter, he's still there. 00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:45.920 Okay, well stick in hand. 00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:53.760 So again, that's where what is the workout in service of in terms of your fitness and your health? 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:55.599 You have different goals now, right? 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.679 And and and that's a really good point. 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:03.039 That's a really good point because even I've admitted that look, I don't train anymore. 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:05.199 I've I've accepted that. 00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:11.440 This is all about longevity and and health and well-being and vitality and all that kind of stuff. 00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:16.000 So my reason for working out is different than it ever used to be. 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:27.679 And so it's just trying on that those new that new jacket of and getting comfortable with uh what I would have called a softer approach back in the day, right? 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.679 So and that takes some, yeah, just like anything, it just takes some getting used to. 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:42.079 Well, the uh uh there's a yin quality uh to listening to your body, to being in relationship with it, to honoring it and being attuned. 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:59.679 So in some ways, um but the paradox and is that those yin qualities um enable strength in the same way that the expression of the bamboo that is able to bend and flex. 00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:04.239 Has more resilience and strength than something that is rigid. 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:17.599 And so um habits the discipline of again showing up, having structure, taking action, um, being persistent, those are important qualities too. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:27.039 It's just can you complement it with the attunement of listening to the body and making a decision that serves the reason you do it in the first place? 00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:27.840 Yeah. 00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:29.199 No, that's fair. 00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:33.599 And and like anything, it's I understand that. 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:41.599 It's just putting it into practice because those old beliefs, those old habits, I mean, goodness, that's a lifetime of that, right? 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:48.960 And now in the last number of years, the game's changing a bit in a way that that just wasn't before. 00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:56.880 I still considered myself training within the last decade, anyway, maybe even five years. 00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.880 And now it's just totally different. 00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:08.079 You know, when my when our chiropractor told me you need to go from three workouts a day down to two, I a week. 00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:10.239 A week in the weight room. 00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.800 I told, you know, I looked at him like he was, but what are you talking about? 00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:24.559 And and and his point was we want you working out when you're in your 80s, not, you know, it's this isn't about next looking great next summer at the beach. 00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:31.440 This is not that I ever worried about that, but it's just it again, back to that long game. 00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:36.800 There's a different, there's a different reason now when I step into our weight room. 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:39.119 And and it's getting used to that. 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:45.920 Like my my first response to him was well, that's you know, that's soft. 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:48.159 But why would I want to get rid of one workup? 00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:56.880 And so you're talking about the shadow side of discipline when it becomes distorted and its control, rigidity, and you're punishing yourself if you I better do this. 00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:09.840 So um, in the same way that devotion can have be self-abandoned when we give so much to a cause that we neglect ourselves and and can't sustain. 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:17.440 So um again, coming back to the questions, um what am I serving? 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:23.280 And am I enslaved by it or um is it life affirming? 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:24.000 Right. 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:28.880 And does it enlarge my life or am I diminished by by this? 00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.840 So there's a balance element, yeah. 00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:46.960 Uh and not confusing loyalty and devotion with uh refusal to let go when when something's or and refuse refusal to change when uh a situation invites that. 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:47.679 Yeah. 00:46:48.000 --> 00:47:00.800 And see, I and I think it's just recognizing that there was a time and a place, there is a time and a place for discipline and for, dare I say, a bit of stubbornness, like like sort of digging in. 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.079 But I think there comes a time where there are negative returns. 00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:15.920 And and I've reached that time where where that stubbornness is not supporting my general health and well-being. 00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:33.119 And I think for a lot of people as well, who who might who are at a as they're as they age, they just uh depending on on how seriousness, how serious they take their fitness, I mean, hell, there are changes going on, right? 00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:36.559 And and we have to be able to adapt. 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:45.760 So and and yeah, so be because if you're thinking long

term, then yeah, it just makes more sense. 00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:47.199 So anyway. 00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:52.079 Entertaining the question is your discipline rooted in love or fear? 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:53.280 Yeah, true. 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:54.239 True. 00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.840 And when it's in love, then the question the answer is easy. 00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:08.480 When it's in fear, it's I know better, but it's still it still wants to be the the choice, if that makes any sense. 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:19.440 And if you think of that yin and yin frame again, healthy discipline protects devotion from distraction, and healthy devotion protects discipline from becoming tyranny. 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:20.079 Right. 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:26.400 But I think the work, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna that old guy that younger guy's still there. 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:46.239 I think the the challenge, the work in this, is being able to recognize is sort of having a gatekeeper for the devotion, so that the devotion doesn't become a dialing down of ambition or work ethic or I don't know. 00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:48.880 Am I being archaic in that? 00:48:49.360 --> 00:49:00.480 Like am I again to me, devotion dials up and enables the discipline because they hold hands and it's the sustaining fuel. 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:16.480 But but see, I'm interpreting it as uh as devotion having uh uh more a bigger having a sense of the of the the big picture in mind. 00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:22.239 Whereas discipline is in the in the immediate, discipline gets called on. 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:32.400 Whereas I see devotion deals with uh you know, sort of the big scope, the the long game, the big picture, all of that. 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:39.199 And I guess what I worry about that is the oh, don't worry about it, you can do it tomorrow kind of thing, right? 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:40.880 Or let's just take the day off. 00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:57.920 That's so let me ask you this when a baby's crying in the middle of the night, night after night, is that the long game or is that right here now when you have to get meals uh for your family when you're showing up for practice um with work and colleagues every day. 00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:06.320 But talking oneself out of anything, it doesn't have to be a workout, it can be a project, it can be a chore, it can be anything. 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:19.360 Talking someone out of that, which ultimately is a choice, I think becomes easier when there's nothing on the line other than you. 00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:28.880 So whether someone chooses to go for a walk, a hike, a run, a workout, you know, no one else is really impacted but yourself. 00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:54.800 And so to be able to say, ah, we'll do it on, you know, we'll do it next week, or we'll do it tomorrow, or that becomes an easier exit when no, am I like that's see, that's what I feel I've lost is the this like in my disciplined times, that conversation's not even happening. 00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:57.119 It's just are you kidding me? 00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.440 Like we're doing this today. 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:05.519 Whereas now it's oh, but yeah, I gotta get this done and this done, and I'm kind of tired. 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:07.840 It was it worked, you know, it was hard getting up the stairs. 00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:08.800 I don't know, something. 00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:10.559 I'll look for any excuse. 00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:14.400 And uh yeah, I don't know. 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:24.320 I just that's my concern with when when discipline takes a backseat, is that I'm not suggesting it take a back seat. 00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:24.960 Okay. 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:27.280 Um I'm suggesting it hold hands. 00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:27.920 Okay. 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:28.719 Okay. 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.519 That they compliment and that they compliment. 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:32.880 You got me. 00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:38.559 Uh that when we're devoted, discipline becomes easier. 00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:42.960 So I need to be more devoted to my long-term health. 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:53.519 The more clarity that we have about what we care about, then that that energy uh in empowers discipline action. 00:51:54.079 --> 00:51:54.400 Okay. 00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:56.719 And anyone listening, I mean, same thing, right? 00:51:56.800 --> 00:52:00.639 You you I just think, you know, it sort of comes back to what's the fuel. 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:08.000 And if the fuel is, if the fuel requires discipline, then maybe you need a bigger, better fuel. 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:09.440 Is that fair? 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:27.039 Uh I wouldn't necessarily agree because um sometimes we really care about something and there's still really hard aspects of it that are not as easy to engage, that there may be a lack of skill or a not knowing how. 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:27.519 Okay. 00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:34.639 Uh just there may be a piece of that that is uh challenging. 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:35.360 Yeah. 00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:40.639 So you're on your fourth book, the first book that you wrote. 00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.239 Um you didn't have a lot of experience writing. 00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.280 Um, that took perspiration, inspiration, discipline. 00:52:49.599 --> 00:52:50.639 Well, a lot of it was ignorance. 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:51.760 I just didn't know any better. 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:55.519 So I just a lot of discipline to show up every day to write. 00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:56.320 Fair. 00:52:56.639 --> 00:53:00.639 But when I write now, there you're, you know, that's a fair point. 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:02.079 There's a different feel. 00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:05.199 I'm uh number one, I enjoy the process. 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.239 I didn't back then. 00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:12.480 I was a search and puncher, and you know, I didn't know, I just I just wasn't experienced. 00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:18.400 But

today, yeah, there's there's a different fuel that pulls me along, right? 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.719 There, there's a tremendous amount of satisfaction and fulfillment that comes with writing. 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.559 Back then, not at all. 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:28.320 It was a get-ter-done mentality, for sure. 00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:30.639 So, you know, that's a good example. 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:32.400 That's a good example. 00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:34.000 Okay, I'm out. 00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:38.880 I'm out of uh I'm out of arguments and and what examples. 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:46.880 Well, the question isn't how hard can I push myself, it is what do I care about deeply enough that I'm willing to keep showing up for it. 00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:47.599 Yeah. 00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:52.480 And that can come from care as opposed to coercion. 00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:55.679 Okay. 00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:00.000 And so uh leaving people leaving people with that. 00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:07.679 What do they care uh deeply enough that they're willing to organize a chunk of their life around? 00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:13.039 And what might that be for each of us? 00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:14.079 Big question. 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:15.119 Yeah. 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:29.519 And uh yeah, and I wouldn't say a life, well, I guess maybe a life-changing question, but certainly a question that can uh impact how you go through your days, for sure. 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:39.039 Yes, and for me, just the the living an embodied open-hearted life, I feel aligned with how I want to be in the world. 00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:42.559 And that empowers me to do hard things. 00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:43.599 Yeah, okay. 00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:51.679 And so that's not a a disciplined life that's organized around force, it's organized organized around what I care about. 00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:03.679 And so I invite us to go more deeply into that and to have our audience explore how would that feel differently? 00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:09.679 How am I already doing that in ways that sustains me and gives me strength and energy? 00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:13.199 And how do I want to play with that? 00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:15.440 Nice one. 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:16.719 Alrighty. 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:17.280 Okay. 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:18.960 Well, thank you. 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:20.000 Thank you. 00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:25.519 I feel like I've come out of this conversation with some things to ponder. 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:27.440 So that's always a good thing. 00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:28.159 So thanks. 00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.199 And thank you. 00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:30.000 Yeah. 00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.159 And thanks for joining us today. 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:39.760 If you've enjoyed this episode, please uh like and subscribe below and tell your friends. 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.400 Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time. 00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:43.760 Bye everyone. 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:48.159 So that's it for today's episode of The Madison the Good. 00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.880 Head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and subscribe to the channel. 00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:58.639 One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes. 00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:07.760 We'll win a chance the grand prize drawing to a ten thousand dollar value private VIP day with Jason and Robinson. 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:18.480 Head on over to Matt and calm and pick up a free copy of Jason Robin's gift and join us on the next episode.