“It Must Be Parental Alienation” — Richard “Dick” Gardner & the Theory That Changed Family Court의 전체 녹취록

--> 00:04:19.040 First, I want to talk about parental alienation and the origins. 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:19.680 Okay. 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.040 Where this kind of really made its headway in the court system. 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:26.079 I want to know when. 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:26.399 Okay. 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:38.720 So the first real piece of literature that I could find on parental alienation in the court system was from 1985. 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:39.120 Wow. 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.319 And it was from a man named Richard Gardner. 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.360 Dick. 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:45.839 His nickname is Dick. 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.120 Dick's walking re flag. 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:50.319 His nickname is Dick. 00:04:50.639 --> 00:05:02.399 So Richard Dick Gardner was an MD and clinical professor of child psychiatry when he was a professor at Columbia University and the College of Physicians and Surgeons. 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:08.160 What I will say is his article in 1985 was just that. 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:15.279 It was an article in an Academy Forum, volume 29, number two, and it was put out in the summer of 1985. 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:20.800 It was more of an opinion piece than a piece based on statistical data. 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:23.040 Do you need statistical data if you're a man? 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:24.639 You know, or peer review. 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:33.439 Turns out you don't need statistical analysis or review or peer review if you're a man, because he put out this article. 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:36.879 Like I said, it was more of an opinion piece than anything. 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:47.120 And I read the article yesterday because when this content was coming across my Instagram page, and the article was called Recent Trends in Divorce and Custody Litigation. 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:47.759 No. 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:49.839 Yeah, you can imagine where this is going. 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:51.519 Say it again for the listeners. 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.040 Recent trends in divorce and custody litigation. 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:56.319 I hate this already. 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:57.519 He's not an attorney. 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:57.839 No. 00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:58.399 Okay. 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.160 But he is a child psychiatrist, which the word is, I can't even say. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.000 So this is clearly not therapeutic advice. 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.839 This is clearly not a peer review. 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:10.079 This is I think this is a peer review. 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:12.399 This is, well, yeah, exactly. 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:12.800 Right? 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:13.120 Yeah. 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:15.040 Peer-to-peer review. 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:16.800 Actually, I would beg to differ. 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.120 I think he this guy's a real big fucking idiot. 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:20.160 Well, let's hear it. 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:20.639 Okay. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:27.439 So the first thing that was really notable is that about this article is that he put the word syndrome on the back of it. 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:29.920 Parental alienation syndrome? 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:30.240 Yeah. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:35.199 Just put an opinion piece on his own, put the word syndrome in the back of it. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:35.680 Okay. 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:48.240 So Richard Dick Gardner coined PAS as a syndrome based largely on his own clinical impressions and anecdotal observations, not scientific controlled research. 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:59.199 And his article has primarily to do with people making accusations, quote unquote, of parental alienation in response to child sex abuse. 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:06.160 His entire article does not include one real life of example of a case that he was involved in where this happened. 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:07.839 So explain with an example. 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:15.519 So the closest example of an actual case example in his article is he talks about a mother who wanted to move to Colorado with her boyfriend. 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:16.079 Okay? 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.199 And the daughters didn't want to stay with dad. 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:20.079 So this is what it says. 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:25.279 The father brought the mother to court in an attempt to restrain her from moving out of the state with the children. 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:36.240 Whereas previously there had been a good relationship with their father, the girls gradually developed increasing hatred of him, and their mother became progressively embroiled in the litigation. 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:44.319 It was clear that disorder would not have arisen if the mother had not met a man who lived in Colorado, a man who she wished to marry. 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:49.279 That's the closest example of parental alienation he provides in here. 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:55.360 But his entire article has to do with when those allegations come after allegations of sexual abuse. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:55.759 Yeah. 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:00.240 Okay, but he says that the child develops the parental alienation syndrome. 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:07.040 Yeah, it says it was clear that the disorder would not have arisen if the mother had not met a man who lives in Colorado. 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:08.079 It seems a little weird. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.160 Like, does the syndrome just let's just be clear. 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:12.000 This is not an actual syndrome. 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:12.720 Okay. 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:20.879 So for purposes of this podcast, I think it is more relatable to a situation that happens than it is a syndrome put on a person. 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:21.279 Yeah. 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.639 But also, I don't have my PhD in child psychology. 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.040 I'm not a professor at Columbia University. 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.319 I'm just a regular person reading this shit.

00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:38.320 So he pivots this into how these allegations arise after allegations of sexual abuse. 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:49.759 He states, we are now observing another phenomenon that's contributing to the development of parental alienation syndrome, the widespread attention being given to the sexual abuse of children by parents. 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.159 He described children as being brainwashed by vindictive mothers. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:54.960 Okay. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:56.720 Sounds really unbiased. 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:04.879 He argued a vengeful parent may exaggerate a non-existent or inconsequential sexual contact and build up a case for sexual abuse. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.360 Oh, so then he goes in to talk about how children who have been abused act. 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:09.840 Yeah. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:10.320 Okay. 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.639 Children who have generally been abused are often fearful of revealing the facts. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:20.879 Often they have been warned by the abuser that there will be a terrible consequence if the sexual encounters are divulged. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.360 They tend to be anxious, tense, timid, and shy. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:28.799 This he contrasted with children who he believed were fabricating allegations. 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:34.240 He says the child who fabricates sex abuse presents with an entirely different picture. 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:45.279 Most often these children are quite comfortable with their accusations and have prepared little speeches, which they freely provide to attorneys, mental health professionals, judges, and anyone else who will listen. 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:49.759 Their litany should be a clue to the fact that they are fabricating. 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:52.480 This man is a professor. 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.000 This is the things that he writes. 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.000 Here's what he's as you're getting to the good part. 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:56.639 Here's what he's doing. 00:09:56.799 --> 00:09:57.600 This isn't the good part? 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:58.000 No. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:03.679 Here's what he suggests they should do to see if it's parental alienation or not. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:16.159 He suggests then placing the allegedly abused child who was accused the parent together for, and he quotes, eyeball to eyeball confrontation, which could help determine the truth. 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:17.279 Shut the fuck up. 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:17.679 Yeah. 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:28.480 So what he says is when the accused and the accuser are in the same room together with the opportunity for an eyeball to eyeball confrontation, there is a much greater likelihood that the two individuals will be honest with one another. 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.360 After all, they were both allegedly there. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:39.840 They know better than anyone else the details of the alleged encounter, and each one is

likely to pick up the other one's fabrications in the most sensitive way. 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:48.080 Of course, the younger the child is, the less the likelihood he or she will be able to engage effectively in such confrontations, but they can still be useful. 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:53.679 Lastly, mother of these children relish in the accusation and deny conflicting evidence. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:11:00.159 Mothers of children who are generally abused commonly deny the abuse or react with horror and grief. 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:01.519 Is this guy still alive? 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:02.960 He died in 2003. 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:04.320 Thank goodness. 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:04.720 Yeah. 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:05.919 Are we joking? 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:06.480 No. 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:26.720 So he then suggests, um, and I don't know if it was in this article or later articles, but he suggests that the remedy for this is placing the child, the abused or allegedly abused child, only in the home with the parent who's the abuser to give them a time to reconnect. 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.440 Uh a month or two is what he suggests, with no contact with the other parent. 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:32.320 That's what it is. 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:33.440 This is outrageous. 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:36.639 Yeah, but this is what the court's doing, which is even more outrageous. 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:37.039 Right. 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:45.679 So once again, the problem with the article is that it contained virtually no empirical data, no control groups, no prevalence of studies, and no accepted scientific mythology. 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:49.840 It was primarily a theory, personal interpretation, and anecdotal examples. 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:50.159 Right. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:50.559 Okay. 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:57.600 So I found an article that was published, um, the evidentiary admissibility of parental alienation syndrome, written by an attorney. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:11:58.879 Her name is Jennifer Holt. 00:11:59.039 --> 00:11:59.200 Yeah. 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:00.320 Not another gen. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.679 I know, right? 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:13.919 And it was published in the Legal Rights Journal, and she noted that Garner himself admitted in 1993 that PAS is what she called it, parental alienation syndrome. 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:20.159 Was that after two decades, PAS lacked any accepted reliable studies. 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.879 So she also dives into Garner's writings on sexuality and child abuse. 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:33.600 And in his self-published work, Garner argued that pedophilia and adult child sexual contact were, and I quote, part of the natural repertoire of human sexual activity. 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:42.320 Jennifer Holt documented that Garner claimed the harm from these acts was often caused more by social condemnation than the conduct itself. 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:50.639 Quote, the sole determinant as to whether these

experiences will be traumatic, meaning child sex abuse, is the social attitude towards these encounters. 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:58.960 She documented that Garner lobbied against mandatory child abuse reporting laws and supported federally funded programs for people claiming they had been falsely accused of abuse. 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:09.519 And critically, while Garner repeatedly warned of an alleged quote unquote epidemic of false allegations and custody disputes, Holt pointed out that he failed to provide actual evidence supporting those claims. 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.559 Like I said, not a s not a single case study, even. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:12.960 Yep. 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:26.080 In contrast, the American Psychological Association Task Force reported that child sex abuse allegations occur in only about two to three percent of custody disputes and are as likely to be confirmed as reports made at other times. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:26.559 Yep. 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:32.480 Once again, the idea that people are just walking around making these claims doesn't track with who I am as a mother. 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.120 And it doesn't track with statistics. 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:35.600 No. 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.720 And Gardner who's just throwing around statistics without everything. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:39.759 I know who does it. 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:48.159 So Gardner is claiming that the harm from sexual abuse is caused more from the social aspect of what happens after this. 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:55.200 And he said the sole determinant as to whether these experiences will be traumatic is the social attitude towards these encounters. 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:55.600 Yep. 00:13:55.759 --> 00:14:09.360 So what he's saying is that mom or grandma or whoever, whatever woman is around these children, if they're saying, hey, dad did touch you and that's not okay, then it's more likely to be more traumatic than it was if no one's around validating the child's experience. 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:18.879 Well, mom's basically saying, I'm gonna say moms, but hopefully it's society, hopefully men are on board too, telling kids it's not okay for people to touch you in that way. 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:19.279 Yeah. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:27.120 So I just think it's really crucial that when we're talking about parental alienation and what courts are doing, this is the source of that. 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:29.120 Whole this is how it was born. 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.879 This is the birthplace of it, is Richard Dick Gardner. 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:41.600 Who was an advocate for men who are falsely accused of sex abuse. 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:43.600 This guy's obsessed with child sex abuse. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:51.279 And I think there's something really kind of strange about a grown man being obsessed with other men who commit pedophilia. 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:58.080 I also want to understand why he was lobbying against legislation that created the requirements of mandated reporters. 00:14:58.240 --> 00:14:58.480 Right. 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:13.600 And he dedicated his whole life demonizing people who accuse other people of pedophilia and writing articles stating if there's a child custody case going on, that should be your first red flag of parental alienation syndrome, if there's an allegation of sex abuse. 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:20.320 And the bizarre part to me is as a woman, if you found out something like that was happening, your instinct is to leave the person. 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:27.440 So, how is the one thing that you can do to protect your child, which is leave that person, the thing then that's going to be used against you? 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:32.159 If you're making these allegations, when you're leaving your husband, it's more likely you're lying than not. 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.639 Yeah. 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.320 Well, and that's been proven true. 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:39.120 There's studies that back up this silver bullet method of parental alienation. 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.120 Well, that's what I want to get to now. 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:47.919 So parental alienation syndrome is not found in the DSM anywhere. 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:54.720 We're not here using psychological tests to confirm whether a child has or a parent or whoever has parental alienation syndrome. 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:54.879 No. 00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:55.759 Because it's not real. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:56.480 It's not real. 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:57.200 It's a term. 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:08.000 Now, so that's what I think is happening now is that lawyers are using that term basically, not as a syndrome, but just to describe the essence of what's happening. 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:08.559 Right. 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:13.120 Which is typically mom is alienating child from dad. 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:13.600 Yeah. 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:19.919 And the roots of it, and this is what I keep saying, is this is a system built by men to benefit men. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:24.559 And we've had some people in our comment sections arguing about that point specifically. 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.080 And argue away. 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:26.960 We like this. 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:35.919 If parental alienation syndrome was born out of the fact that dads were then trying to, I don't know, alienate moms from these relationships. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:36.879 Okay. 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:37.519 Right. 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:39.279 But that's not how this was born. 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.559 That's not how this came about. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.639 And not in general, how it's being used. 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:43.679 No, not at all. 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:44.159 Okay. 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:50.960 So talk about how, if you want, how it came up in your case. 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:52.480 Sexual anything? 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:52.799 No. 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:53.919 French

alienation. 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:54.799 Trial alienation. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:00.879 Um, we haven't talked about it in a we I mean, we talk about my case a lot, but we haven't talked about like the origin story of this in a while. 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:15.759 So a year and a half ago, my child was given a tablet from her father, and on it, he was logged into his Gmail account, his iMessage account, and apparently his iCloud account. 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:24.400 So she had access to his photos, his messages, and his emails on her device that he provided to her, who he had the parental control set up. 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:25.920 I had no access to any of that. 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.880 He made sure of it. 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.079 And so when I Well, and on top of it, Jen doesn't give her kids electronics. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:31.119 I don't, I'm a mean mom. 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:31.839 She's a good mom. 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:33.279 I'm not a good mom, I'm a mean mom. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:34.160 I'm a bad mom. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:42.240 Um, so as soon as I was made aware of these things because our child was very, very upset. 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:43.440 Uh, I called him. 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.200 I was sure it was a mistake. 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:46.559 Accidents happen. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.920 You deserve the grace of people understanding that they're accidents. 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.240 At this point, we were still getting along really well. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.279 So I imagined that this was not purposeful. 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.880 So I called him and he remotely logged out of all of these things. 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:04.720 So time went on and she was having a really hard time going around him, but I still forced her to go. 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.039 And then Well, because in the meantime, he had had a girlfriend who we'd had for three years. 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.079 They were all living there. 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:10.400 Yeah. 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:11.440 They had a dog. 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:12.559 They were like, you know. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:13.759 They did not have a dog. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:14.640 They did not have a house. 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:15.359 She had a house. 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:15.759 Well, yeah. 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:16.640 She had a dog. 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:18.400 He loves to tell that story differently. 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:19.599 But they love her. 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:20.160 They love her. 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:20.960 Yeah. 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.640 Your kids were in her house. 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.279 They were petting her dog every night before bed. 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.440 We went on ski trip. 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:27.839 Yeah. 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.319 We were spending time making sure that we were cordial. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:36.640 So in the meantime, he cheats on this woman and doesn't really explain it to the kids, right? 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.160 He just says that him and you know, ex-girlfriend broke up. 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.839 Moves out of ex-girlfriend's house, doesn't tell them at all. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.759 Basically, they're just not going there anymore. 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.279 Yeah, there was no like, we love each other, but we're not together anymore. 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:50.480 The kids are a little confused. 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:51.839 Now the kids are at grandma's. 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:52.319 Okay. 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.799 And then a couple months later, the kids are at new woman's house. 00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:58.799 Also, no conversation. 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:00.319 No conversation about it. 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:13.119 So in the midst of kids being at one girlfriend's house, breaking up, being at grandma's house, and then now moving in with another second woman in the matter of four months. 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:13.519 Yes. 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:17.200 All of this pornography appears on oldest child's app. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:18.240 Yeah, it disappears. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:18.880 It's magic. 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:19.519 Yeah. 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:20.079 Right? 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:20.880 It's there. 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:29.440 So on top of seeing and being confused by a lot of dad's actions towards women, you're also seeing some really, really vulgar shit. 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:29.839 Yeah. 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.519 Well, and seeing the cheating. 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.359 So oldest child was seeing the messages with the mistress. 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:35.839 Yeah. 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.480 Think at this point, I think that I like that too. 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:40.240 Yeah. 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:41.119 No, no, no, no. 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.359 Not new, not new estranged wife. 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.240 The person that he was cheating on ex-girlfriend with. 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.960 Because yeah, because when he was cheating on ex-girlfriend, it was with another completely different woman. 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:52.000 One at least. 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:52.799 At least one. 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:53.279 Yeah. 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:55.440 And so, you know, child struggling. 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.079 She was struggling with this because she really liked this ex-girlfriend. 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:03.680 And just so to see that your father is going on having some extracurriculars, it's hurtful. 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:08.799 So fast forward, they move into this new woman's house, no explanation. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.200 But to really top it off, ex-husband and this new girlfriend. 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:14.319 And she has two kids. 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:14.720 Yeah. 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:23.359 They sit the kids down, so five kids in total, to tell them, We're going to get 50-50 custody of you guys. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.720 We're going to buy

a bigger house and we're going to see you more. 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:27.359 Yeah. 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:28.640 So kids come home. 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:31.039 Because right now dad only has four days a month. 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:31.440 Yeah. 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:33.920 So kids come home crying. 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.359 Why are you letting dad have us more? 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.559 And I said, What are you talking about? 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.920 Dad told us that he's gonna get 50-50 custody of us. 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:42.319 Yeah. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.799 I said, I don't know what you're talking about. 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.599 Yeah, he's they're gonna buy a bigger house closer to you. 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.759 I said, Okay, this is really interesting information. 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.759 We haven't talked about any of this. 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.799 And so I call ex Homer at that time because we get along. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.759 And call him and I'm like, what is going on? 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:04.079 And he was like, I wanna get more custody of them. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:06.960 I said, The conversation is with me to begin with. 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:15.599 You and this strange woman who they've met a few times, don't sit down with our kids and tell them that you're going to be doing something so serious. 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:17.039 Like, that's the conversation with me. 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.480 And it was a heated argument. 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.599 This was not like calm, but I was like, it is not appropriate to do to kids. 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:24.720 So they were already kind of aware of some of these things going on. 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:30.559 Mind you, it had still been less than six months since they had been living with the last woman who they loved so much. 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.480 And so things kept happening like that. 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.440 And oldest child was like, Mom, you can't force me to go anymore. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.640 I I won't go. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:39.119 Right. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:45.839 Well, and then something else happened where he told the kids that he was bringing them to grandma's, and he actually drove them to this new woman's house. 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.039 And here's the thing these notably, a lot of details. 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:51.440 Yeah. 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:52.480 A lot of details. 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:53.680 This is like an onion. 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.640 This is real life. 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:55.359 It is. 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.200 But the fact that Oltest Child stopped going. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.960 The initial letter you got right out of the gate was you're alienating this child. 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.680 This is your fault. 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.599 Jen, you're doing this. 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:08.720 She hasn't been. 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.079 There's no valid reason. 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:10.880 This is your fault. 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.839 He's done nothing. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.039 He would have no reason. 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:14.319 The child has no reason. 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.599 The child loves him so much. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.119 And he and I have had conversations for months about why she wasn't going. 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.039 And he kept telling me, I don't want to force her to go. 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:30.799 Well, and he well, and here's the thing whether or not you hear the story of what happened and why the oldest child wants to go or doesn't want to go, and you think, oh, well, she should be going anyways. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:31.119 Yeah. 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:31.920 Maybe she should. 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.319 Yeah. 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.200 I'm sorry. 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:42.480 If a per a child though is coming to you and saying, I don't feel safe there, and then all of a sudden combined with that, you're seeing some really sexually explicit stuff going on. 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:53.519 And then on top of that, now he's point blank lying to them and he's driving them to a different house and he said he was going to not refusing to give you the address of where the kids were at, which was another resulted in another accusation. 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:54.000 Yes. 00:22:54.079 --> 00:23:05.039 It's like, how much as mom are you supposed to force a situation to happen when kids are literally screaming at you, I don't want to, this isn't safe. 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:05.440 Yep. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.920 And if they don't go, it cannot be estrangement. 00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:10.319 Yeah. 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:13.200 It cannot be the result of dad's behavior. 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:13.599 Nope. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.839 It has to be mom's fault. 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:35.039 And so the the idea that as the parent that's doing these actions that are maybe causing some of this estrangement, for your reaction to be to point the finger at the other parent so vehemently, it it's a silver bullet map in it. 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:37.519 Instead of trying to repair your relationship with your child. 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:38.799 Because you could put the work in. 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:39.920 That's your other option. 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:41.599 No, that would be too easy, right? 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.400 You could schedule some therapy for you and that child. 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:44.640 Yeah. 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:49.119 Like I said, if you have$20,000 laying around, maybe you could take that child on a freaking dream vacation. 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:50.000 And you said that before. 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:50.640 That was it. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.039 Okay. 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:57.200 But the other interesting thing about it is that my ex-husband, I don't know, we haven't talked about this on here. 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:04.000 There

were some other things that were going on with his living situation and some stuff before where she was struggling. 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.319 And so oldest oldest child. 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:06.640 Yep. 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.519 And so I was talking to ex-husband about this ex-homer. 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:13.599 And we call him ex-homer because he's homeless. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:15.759 Um he's between houses. 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.440 He's unhoused. 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:19.680 Um he's living with his mom. 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:22.480 He really likes men who live with their mom. 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:23.039 I do. 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:24.480 I have a thing for them. 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:31.359 Um, so going back, there were some things that were going on, and I said, hey, kid really wants to go to therapy. 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:33.119 This is something that she's interested in. 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.680 Um, do you want to work on scheduling this? 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:37.519 Because I schedule everything. 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.319 1,000 decisions every single day. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:41.440 I schedule them. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.960 I asked him when we were getting along really well, can you do you want to take this off my plate? 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:45.680 Yes. 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:51.839 For one year, we argued about him not making time to do it repeatedly. 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:53.440 It would have been easier if you just did it. 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:53.920 I know. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.480 And he kept telling me, no, don't do it. 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:57.200 No, don't do it. 00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:01.119 It was kind of like giving myself a little paper cut every time just to make sure I was still alive. 00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:10.319 Like, well, and Jen, if you had found the therapist, because fast forward, whole court action started, this parent alienation thing has not gone away. 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.400 No, it is a very, very present thing in her life every every day. 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.480 It's also present in my life in a different way. 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:33.039 But in Jen's case, the fact that the court now is ordering basically an investigation into Jen's home, Jen's mental health, also ex-homer's home, which he doesn't have one and his mental health. 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:39.920 Um, but you can just go into court and make this accusation, this parent alienation accusation. 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.440 And now, Jen, the financial cost of all of this on you. 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:53.119 The mental health evaluation that the Guardian at Lightham is recommending both her and her ex-husband get is between four and six thousand dollars to start. 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:54.480 That's the deposit. 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.119 And they usually run around ten thousand dollars. 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:07.519 And that doesn't include the contempt fines Jen had to pay, the attorney's fees that she's obligated to, um, the financial burden here based on this claim. 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:10.960 And our guardian of item fees will be reallocated at trial. 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:11.599 Yeah. 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:17.039 If if he's successful and who knows, but reality is most of the time they're at least split. 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.759 Yeah, right. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:25.680 And so well, and that's what the commissioner said is they'll be subject to reallocation at trial because his attorney didn't prepare a calculation. 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:28.079 Um, but I want to ask you a question. 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:28.799 Uh-oh. 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.119 Um, as an attorney, okay. 00:26:31.359 --> 00:26:32.480 You're practicing family law. 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:32.880 Okay. 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.440 Somebody comes to you and says, Hey, I haven't seen my kid in a while. 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:38.640 I want a modification. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:39.920 I want a modification. 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.880 Maybe I even want to get full custody and take them to London. 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:43.279 Okay. 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:45.440 What would be some of the paperwork you would need? 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.160 Originally, first thing, I need to see your final parenting plan. 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:48.960 What are we modifying? 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:50.079 Yeah, what does it say now? 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:51.279 And what are we modifying it to? 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:52.240 Really interesting. 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:53.200 You have to. 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:55.440 Because for your own due diligence. 00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:01.519 Now there's a legal obligation of due diligence, because I've been thinking this whole time there's none, because it does not seem so very loose. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:02.720 Yeah, it does seem very loose. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:06.319 Especially in family law, as we all have come to find out. 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.240 Okay, so here's why I ask. 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:08.799 Okay. 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:18.640 So, more than a month ago, there was an email from our guardian of item to ex-homer's attorney who we call Daddy, because he loves to be involved in all of our parenting decisions. 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.759 Um Daddy would tuck us into bed if we let him. 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.160 Is that like a for hire? 00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.319 Do you do turn down service, Daddy? 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:27.200 Salacious. 00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.880 Salacious turndown service. 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:34.000 Daddy's also said that our podcast is salacious, and I cannot get enough of the fact that he thinks. 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:39.680 You know, honestly, you know how hard it is to turn family court abuse into salacious content? 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.319 Love it. 00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:41.440 Not that easy, daddy. 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:42.720 Cue the song. 00:27:42.960

--> 00:27:44.160 Cue that song. 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:47.599 Daddy thinks his podcast is salacious. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.000 He has no interest in providing the podcast. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.160 Okay. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.680 So there is an email said, Hey, can you from Daddy? 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:56.240 Uh no. 00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:57.839 From Guardian of Light Up. 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:08.880 Please provide me of the copy of the original petition for dissolution and any other temporary parenting plan entered in this matter prior to entry of the final parenting plan. 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.880 So she's not asking for the final parenting plan. 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:11.839 I believe she has that. 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:12.240 Okay. 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:18.640 But she gets an email back from Daddy's paralegal, we call her May, um, that says, Good morning. 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:27.920 Our office is not in possession of those documents, but I will reach out to ex-homer and attempt to attain obtain them unless Jen has them readily available. 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.200 May add to your own legal work, May. 00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:31.839 Yeah. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:33.039 Come on, May. 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:42.400 So Mike, why would you give them copies of any legal documents when the documents they submit are so one-sided all the time? 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.079 Find your damn self. 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:51.119 Well, yeah, so then our guardian of item comes back a month later, just a few days ago, and has says, circling back around to this. 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.319 Could counsel for either party please get me a copy of these documents? 00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:57.680 If either of your clients has them, they are welcome to send them to me directly. 00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.519 Because she really doesn't like to talk to the attorneys. 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:00.880 She wants to hear from us. 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.240 So this is being my first time hearing from it. 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:05.759 I'm surprised by this. 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:09.839 So then Daddy says to the Guardian of Let him, good afternoon. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.720 I will see if X-Homer can order them from this county. 00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:13.920 He does not have them. 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.839 Sincerely stock. 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:17.119 Yes, they have the final parenting plan. 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.240 But hold on, hold on. 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:19.119 I want to I want to get there. 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:20.079 Oh, okay. 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.519 Um, so then my attorney sends it to me and says, Hey Jen, do you have these stocks? 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.240 Can you send them? 00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:28.400 And about two minutes later, I have them and I send them to her because it's something I have on hand. 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:38.160 What is interesting is that in the county that we got divorced in, because we agreed it

was uncontested, they do the document as one single document. 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:47.680 So the copies that we have are divorced, the divorce decree, the child support calculation, and the parenting plan all in one file. 00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:51.599 So I'm confused about how you don't have this. 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.480 You should have the divorce decree because it's all one document. 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.599 Well, that's what I think is weird, you know, strange. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:00.799 I don't know why my ex-husband would claim that he doesn't have something that he has. 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:01.839 That's the weird. 00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:04.799 And I have resent it to him in the past because he needed it for something. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.079 That's probably how he got it to daddy was through that same document. 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:08.559 Right. 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:10.559 So that's why it's just confusing to me. 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:11.599 It just seems stupid. 00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:17.039 And also, if I had a client, I wouldn't be out here claiming that they don't have their fucking divorce decree. 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:25.200 You're asking to be the one that holds their passports while also claiming that you're going to get full custody and move the kids to London. 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:27.839 And you cannot show up for appointments on time. 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.880 You've blatantly missed appointments and not responded to things and not gotten things done on time. 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:40.240 You have disregarded court orders after you paid thousands and thousands of dollars to get them by showing up at my house where you're not supposed to be. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.240 And you don't even have your divorce decree. 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:44.480 Like these things just don't make sense to me. 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.359 You know what, Jan? 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:46.000 It doesn't make sense. 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:55.680 It almost is like, why would a commissioner put forth a modification, even a minor one, of a parenting plan when the party requesting the modification doesn't even have a home address? 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.279 You know, I one would wonder. 00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.480 One would wonder, but it just seems to not matter. 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.200 Like they Because I have parental alienation syndrome. 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.759 Because you have parental alienation syndrome. 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:09.119 My kid doesn't want to see me. 00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:10.000 It's your fault. 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.200 Because mom could be the cause of all of this. 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:15.200 It's your fault, not mine. 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:18.480 Like that's the really screwed up part. 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.519 It's like you come to court, right, with all your evidence and all your facts. 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.799 Being like, Dad doesn't show up for appointments, dad

misses all his weekends. 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.400 Dad's never been to a parent teacher conference. 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:37.680 I'm confused by dad is making allegations that I'm mentally ill and asking for a minor modification in a gardening lightum because this is not tracking with anything that's going on in our current work on getting a house. 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.640 And the court says stamp, go through. 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:42.319 Well, who cares? 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:44.240 Let's do an investigation into mom's mental health. 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:46.480 And go to whatever address you want to, dad. 00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:46.799 Yep. 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.039 Exactly while mom can't move outside of a school district without your permission. 00:31:51.279 --> 00:32:07.359 While mom is busy being primary parents still, and now mom, the only one with a stable home address, mom has to come up with at least for a mental health evaluation, somewhere in the neighborhood of you know, four, six, ten thousand dollars. 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:08.160 Who knows? 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:09.359 Just prepare. 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.079 Mom has to come up with court fines and court fees. 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:18.480 Like what the system is blatantly doing to women, like I said, you can argue with me all day in the comment section. 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.519 It's a system built by men for men. 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.160 And that's the way that tends to play out. 00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:28.319 Like, yeah, man should not have been able to come to court without a home address. 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:30.319 And he wrote one down on the residential form. 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.039 Don't get me wrong. 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:32.160 Oh, and he's lying about it. 00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.480 Everyone knew he wasn't living there. 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:43.200 And actually, during the commissioner's ruling, when you pointed out, Your Honor, I don't even know where this neutral place is gonna be because he doesn't have a residential address. 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:43.359 Yeah. 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:45.599 A home address, his attorney agreed. 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:46.000 Yeah. 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:47.279 Oh, yeah, he doesn't. 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:47.519 Yeah. 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:48.000 Yes. 00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:49.359 He's between homes right now. 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.680 He's staying at his mom's, he's also staying at his new wife and whatever ex-wife. 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:55.039 But they're not divorced. 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:59.599 But yeah, Your Honor, so we we'll have to build some flexibility around his home address. 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.400 Uh wait a second. 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.720 But Dad doesn't even have a regular place to take the kids. 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.720 But if one of the kids isn't going, it's parental alienation. 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:13.039 Right. 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:17.200 Like that,

that logic just doesn't track, and it never will for me. 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:19.119 And let's be clear about something. 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:26.640 The Guardian of Lightham is now investigating the house that is not on his confidential information form, which doesn't make any sense to me. 00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.680 He has been living with his mom since mid-December. 00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:34.160 This is confirmed information, but they're not updating his confidential information form. 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:35.759 And mainly because no one cares. 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:41.359 Right, and the Guardian of Lightham is going to investigate his mom's house instead of this place that he claims he lives at, which he doesn't. 00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:42.720 No one cares. 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:43.599 No one cares. 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:44.400 No one cares. 00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:48.160 But if that were me, if that were mom, well, that's what pissed me out. 00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:49.440 I have to have somewhere to live. 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.440 I have to stay mentally and emotionally stable to take care of our kids all the time. 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:55.039 And no one cares. 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.039 And all this action's still going forward. 00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.160 No one cares. 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:05.839 It's so funny because there's so many people in our communities that daddy and I, we both know a little bit. 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.199 I'd say like heavy acquaintance have some crossover. 00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:10.000 Yeah. 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:11.280 People don't speak. 00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:12.400 It's a small world. 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:13.440 It is a small world. 00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.039 People don't speak highly of him. 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:22.079 Actually, I volunteer coach for an organization and there's a woman that knows him that uh because of a school connection. 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:23.760 And I just think it's really interesting. 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:24.239 Yeah. 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:26.719 And turns out I can talk about whatever I want to. 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:27.119 Yeah. 00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:28.159 That's on you. 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:35.440 If you don't want the way you practice law to be put out for everybody so it's transparent, maybe you shouldn't be practicing law like that. 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:35.760 Yeah. 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:41.599 If you don't want your behavior to be read in front of the classroom, maybe change your behavior. 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:45.599 The reality is attorneys like Daddy exist everywhere throughout the country. 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:47.280 If it wasn't daddy, it'd be someone else. 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:47.679 Right. 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:50.800 It's just up to you if you want that right in front of a microphone or not. 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.039 And this is Mental Health Awareness Month here in Maine. 00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:57.119 So I'm so happy

to be spending$6,000 on a fucking psych evaluation. 00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.960 That's great for everybody's mental health. 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.199 But on top of that, it's mental health awareness month. 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.400 And the person that has mental health issues is not me. 00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:29.119 It is my children's father who is coming out talking about his borderline sociopathy, his depression, his anxiety, his ADHD, his PTSD, and some other and in the meantime, making some very questionable decisions about his own pornographic escapades and where they land, his marriages, his divorces, new stepkids, mom's house, auntie twister. 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.960 Kids catching crawling out of grandma's bed in the middle of the night. 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:37.840 Kids catching now another new woman crawling out of his bed, a woman they've known who they call Auntie. 00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.039 We call her Auntie Twister. 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:40.239 That's not her real name. 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:49.199 So if we want to talk about instability and disturbing environments, and those are terms that daddy uses to talk about Jen, let's talk about it. 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:51.599 And that's the fucked up position, right? 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.400 So they bring all of this stuff to court. 00:35:54.559 --> 00:36:01.119 Parental alienation, and this is your fault, and you have a disturbing environment, Jen, and we need to investigate Jen's mental health. 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.480 And you're now defending yourself, yeah. 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:09.280 Which realistically should have just been an acknowledgement by ex-homer. 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:09.519 Yeah. 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:12.639 I've done some shit that could have affected this and I should try and fix it. 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:12.960 Right. 00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:19.679 And like I said, if I have to hire an attorney and request mediation and send a strongly worded letter in the meantime, absolutely. 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:20.159 Yeah. 00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.119 But this has spiraled and snowballed. 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.320 And like I said before, it's daddy's whole business practice. 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:27.599 It's it's in daddy's favor. 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:28.239 It's the way he makes it. 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.000 Daddy's the only person that's gonna win here. 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:34.079 It's the way he makes donations to, you know, schools, PTSAs. 00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:35.119 Yeah, wherever. 00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:35.760 Whatever. 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:43.360 So you said a little bit earlier that, you know, there's um a version of parental alienation that you've got being you're being accused of. 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.760 Explain. 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.199 Custodial interference. 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:45.760 Yeah. 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:59.360 So um my oldest son, he's 15 and a half, has recently on and off, uh kind of not

been following the parenting schedule, is what I'll say. 00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.239 Just he's not been following it for a variety of reasons. 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:10.880 Reason number one, the huge reason is that his dad, my ex-husband, who we call ex parte, because he loves to file an ex parte motion. 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.320 Or two. 00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:14.239 Yeah, he never does it, but he always threatens to. 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.159 Couldn't get him to school on Friday mornings. 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:16.400 Right. 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.519 And we're on a five, two, two split, me and my ex-husband. 00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:23.599 And so his days every week are uh Wednesday night, Thursday night. 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.440 So he gets the kids to school Thursday morning, Friday morning, every single week. 00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:40.000 I see, you need like a class to teach people about parenting plans because when you say five, two, two split like that and it just is so simple that it sias them every Wednesday, Thursday, it does not track to me. 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:41.119 I don't understand. 00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:42.159 I know, I know. 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:43.840 And these things there's so there's so much. 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:47.599 It doesn't make sense to me. 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:48.800 Anyway, okay, keep going. 00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:50.159 I'm coming out with one. 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.280 I'm you need to because I'm still like sitting here thinking about it. 00:37:53.440 --> 00:38:02.719 I'm like, that I'm realizing how much people don't know too about the way a parenting plan works and how I call it a traffic plan. 00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:03.119 Yeah. 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:07.280 Your kid's time is the car, and you want to know where that car is gonna go. 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:13.199 You want to know if that car is at a stop sign, you want to know if that car is changing lanes, going from residential schedule to holiday schedule. 00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:21.679 And that plan that you write your parenting plan or custody agreement, whatever it's called in your state, yeah, you get to say when that car stops and when that car changes lanes. 00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:22.000 Yeah. 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:30.239 And knowing how to write a traffic plan like that that will affect your life in your kids' lives for the next Most importantly, the kids' lives. 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:35.119 Oh, it could save you thousands, you guys, thousands and thousands of dollars. 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:49.360 And so what is really interesting to me is that it might not even be that it's not that you don't know enough about parenting plans, but if you have a two-year-old or a five-year-old or a seven-year-old, it is hard to anticipate what having a 12 and a 15 and an 18-year-old is like. 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:56.559 Even now with my oldest being 13, trying to think through what this next iteration of our parenting plan might be if these things continue to go forward. 00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:02.000 Trying to think about car insurance and driver's license and curfews and things that are going to look a little bit different. 00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.480 And I'm not even ready for that, but have to be. 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:14.480 Well, in building a plan then that can account for those transitions, because if you can't agree, yeah, you're$11,000 in over keeping a kid in a therapist. 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:18.960 Well, and let's be very clear: my ex-husband and I have always agreed on parenting plan things. 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.480 That was a hard left turn when this stuff all happened. 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:22.800 Yeah. 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:24.559 And I never anticipated this. 00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:30.880 So I think that building in opportunities for long-term success with your co-parenting relationship benefits the kid. 00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:31.360 Yeah. 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:33.440 And the kids and you and your mental health. 00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.159 So you don't have to pay$6,000 for a mental health evaluation. 00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:36.559 Right. 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:37.280 Anyways. 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:37.599 Yeah. 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:43.519 Okay, tell me more about ex parte and parental alienation and custodial interference. 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.239 Well, so we're on a 522 split. 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:50.239 My oldest, he couldn't get my oldest child to school on the Friday mornings. 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.960 So Friday mornings became a standing issue. 00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:53.440 Right. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:56.960 And I'm home and I work from home. 00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.239 And I also have a boyfriend who's home a lot. 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:00.719 Okay. 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:07.679 And my son wanted to come and stay at my house on Thursday nights so that I could get him to school. 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:11.199 And his father was like, absolutely not, non-negotiable. 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.280 You're not, you have to figure it out yourself. 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.679 Um, but also you're not allowed to go to mom's. 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:17.920 And there was Did he ever solve for it? 00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:18.400 No. 00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:18.719 Okay. 00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:19.840 Never solved for it. 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:25.599 No, there was never any kind of solution that could be amendable or someone else who could give you a ride. 00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.239 They do live, they live just outside walking distance from the from where he has to get to school. 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.159 It's a ferry he has to take. 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.119 And so there was no neighbor that could step in. 00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:41.039 There was no friend that could step in one morning a week and help out, at least until he could figure something else out. 00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:42.079 Zero solution. 00:40:42.239 -->

00:40:49.840 The solution was my ex-husband standing in front of the door and telling my son, you'll have to get through me if you want to go to your mom's on a Thursday night. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:54.239 And the and that wasn't the only physical incident that happened. 00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:59.280 There was another one that had happened a few months beforehand, also at a school. 00:40:59.440 --> 00:40:59.599 Yeah. 00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:06.000 And there was like a confrontation that happened between my parents and my ex-husband, and my son stepped in the middle of it. 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:08.800 And my ex-husband went to go headbutt my son. 00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:09.199 Yeah. 00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:12.000 Um, and he didn't actually headbutt him. 00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:12.400 Right. 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.679 As Jen points out, there's no pretending to headbutt somebody. 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:21.280 You're either attempting to headbutt somebody and you either are successful or you were not, but you were still attempting to headbutt somebody. 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:21.760 Yeah. 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.320 So now my son isn't really going regularly to his dad's. 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.719 Yeah. 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.480 And I wonder why. 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:29.679 This is this is the thing. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:37.920 Because you are in high school where your grades matter and you got the Thursday night scaries instead of the Sunday night scaries every Thursday. 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.840 You're worried about school because not everybody, most people have uh at least one subject that they struggle in. 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:46.239 Whatever it is, like you need to be at school. 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:46.719 Yeah. 00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:51.199 And it's he's just my ex-husband has made it very clear to me. 00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:55.760 When all these things have happened, I've of course communicated with him through our family wizard. 00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.880 Um, and his reaction is always denial. 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.199 Nothing's happened, that's not what happened. 00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:03.599 You know, he doesn't really say you're making this up. 00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.280 It's just No, it's always your problem. 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:06.079 It's just it's my fault. 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:06.880 Yeah, he doesn't make it. 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:07.760 That's what he says. 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.320 If it did happen this way, it's your fault. 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:10.800 Yes. 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:11.920 That's what I hear all the time. 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:15.199 In as many words as he wants to, he says it all the time. 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:15.519 Yeah. 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:16.559 He takes no account of it. 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:18.400 If that happened, it's because of you. 00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.920 You cause this, you cause them to react that way. 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:22.400 Yeah. 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.119 Um, and so Oh, he sounds like Richard fucking Gardner. 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:26.480 Even now, yeah, right. 00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:30.000 So even now, with my oldest not going, my ex-husband, same thing. 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:31.840 He claims he has like no clue. 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:35.199 And I've said to him, yeah, he's struggling. 00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:36.960 Yeah, there's things going on. 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:38.880 Yes, I know he's not doing well in school. 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:39.440 I'm on the case. 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.239 Here's what I think. 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:41.360 What are you doing? 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:46.480 Um, yeah, you're finding things in this room that maybe you shouldn't be finding or I shouldn't be finding. 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:47.760 Did you talk to him about it? 00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:48.719 Did you call him? 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:49.119 Right. 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:50.559 There's so much. 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:59.760 And I've told Jen a few times, um, I know if slash when this hits the inside of a courtroom, it will be my fault. 00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:05.679 And I just have to be okay with whatever it is to basically do what's best for my son. 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:10.719 But the fact that that's really the acceptance I had to come to, yeah, socks. 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:11.199 Right. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:11.840 Socks. 00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.000 And it's funny because I was talking to my mom about it. 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:19.119 And my mom's like, oh, I don't think he's gonna take it to court because I don't think his mom's gonna pay for it. 00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:21.440 I was like, You think that's the only way? 00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:23.199 She's like, I don't think he'd spend his own money. 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.280 No, he wouldn't, but I do think that your younger kids are young enough that he would think it's worth it. 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.800 Okay, but Jen, for so many years that was his golden child. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:32.960 That was the child he wanted to just take on his own. 00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:33.679 He wanted me to watch it. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:35.360 Sometimes the golden children get older. 00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:39.760 The girls, while he took the oldest child here, and he did this with oldest child. 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.159 So, like ex Homer's like that too. 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:47.199 He talks about how our oldest child is his absolute favorite and he just thinks she adores him. 00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:51.199 And I hated it because it was really, really unfair to the other two. 00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:53.360 And I didn't like that kind of blatant favoritism. 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.360 Or just like make some time with the other ones too. 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:56.480 You can really enjoy acting. 00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:59.599 If you're gonna have a favorite, do it behind the other one's back. 00:44:00.159 -->

00:44:01.119 Like don't make it obvious. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:07.039 Don't make it obvious by saying, I can we switch around and I can take the other ones to do this on this day and this on this day. 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.800 Like it doesn't have to be a thing. 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:09.360 No. 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.000 So the fact that this is where this is at is really mind-boggling to me. 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.639 And I'm extremely supportive, as you are. 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:18.400 I don't want any of my kids. 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:22.800 I hate the term daddy issues because I feel like it puts the onus on the girl. 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:25.199 But I don't want my kids to have dad issues. 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:25.599 No. 00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:26.480 I don't want them. 00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:34.239 But I've also read really recently all over my feed that the uh the adults who have the most issues are not the adults without dads. 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:39.599 They're the adults who had dads there who were cold, not present, um, manipulative, abusive. 00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:41.440 Those are the kids that have the most problems. 00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:43.840 That if your dad, I don't, I don't know. 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:44.239 Yeah. 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.119 Have you heard this? 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.519 Well, yeah, and I have an interesting dad set up. 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:47.760 Yeah. 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:48.639 Yeah. 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:49.360 What do you think? 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.039 Well, okay, I have a story instead. 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.679 This is gonna be my not the worst thing that happened to me this week because I get confused when talking about my own family. 00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:56.079 Yes. 00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:59.039 There's like hot potato situations that kind of go on. 00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.199 So my kids and I were talking the other day. 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.400 So very quickly, I've been raised by my stepdad since I was two. 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:06.800 He's my most present parent of anybody. 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:09.760 I do not really know my biological father. 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.480 Um, I don't care to know him. 00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:14.239 We do not agree on things politically. 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:17.360 He's anti a lot of things that I believe in vocally. 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:20.880 Um, and I learned this by being Facebook friends with him as an adult. 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:22.480 Uh so freaking Facebook. 00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:24.079 Showing families everywhere. 00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:25.199 He said all lives matter. 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:26.480 And I was like, not yours. 00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.199 You gotta go. 00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:27.920 Unfriends. 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:29.199 Yeah, that was what did it. 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:30.159 That's what did me in. 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.440 I love that you found Jesus and got clean, but this

is not for me. 00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:34.480 What would Jesus do? 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:36.000 What would WWJD? 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:36.400 Yeah. 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.800 Um, okay, so my kids and I were sitting and talking. 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:42.800 Every time that I say something about my dad, my kids always say, Oh, which dad? 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:44.960 And I never talk about my biological father. 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:46.880 Like, he was clearly still do, though. 00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:48.639 They do every time they're just so interested. 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:49.840 I don't think they get it. 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:56.400 I don't think because I don't bring men in and out of their lives, so they don't understand what it would be like to have an extra liar, whore, whore. 00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:58.880 So there's an uncle twister. 00:45:59.039 --> 00:45:59.199 Yeah. 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:00.239 Uncle twister. 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:00.880 That's funny. 00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:02.239 Uncle tsunami. 00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.679 Uncle Tidal Wave, Uncle Typoon. 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:06.719 You gotta go with the twister. 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:08.480 Typoon. 00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:08.800 Okay. 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:13.519 So the other night they go, Oh, wait, which dad? 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:14.960 And I go, Oh, my real dad. 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:18.960 But I I met my stepdad because that to me is my real dad. 00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:20.960 And everybody was confused at my table, including me. 00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:22.559 I didn't even know who I was talking about anymore. 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.280 But I was like, You guys, that's my real dad. 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:26.559 That is a real man that was there. 00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:28.239 And that's what I asked her his question, though. 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:28.559 Yeah. 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:35.599 Did your mom did she produce parental alienation syndrome between you and your biological father? 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:42.239 No, and what's really interesting, I think, is his family for a long time thought that she was just out here trash talking him and all kinds of things. 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:43.519 My my real dad. 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:44.960 And she really didn't. 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.119 Yeah, she doesn't really talk about him much at all. 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:53.199 So I've met him four or five times, I think, since they left, and it's been very awkward every time. 00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:53.519 Yeah. 00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:55.199 And my mom is not a saint. 00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:56.639 We've talked about her a lot on here. 00:46:56.880 --> 00:47:00.480 I think the only reason I don't have daddy issues is because I have worse mommy issues. 00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:01.920 But well, you know what? 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:03.119 There's probably some truth to that. 00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:03.760 No, there is. 00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:09.679 I have therapists in my past have like pointed that out that if your mom was totally grounded and stable. 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:14.800 Yeah, that just that I would go to therapy thinking that my issues were my were daddy issues. 00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:15.920 Turns out they weren't. 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.440 And it was a really rude awakening for me that that was not my problem. 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:19.920 Yeah. 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:27.840 Well, could you imagine in like this whole parent alienation syndrome thing, the solution to that being like, go stay with your dad for two months? 00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:32.559 This man that I stared at and was like shaking around because we were both so shy we couldn't talk to each other. 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:32.880 Yeah. 00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:33.360 Nope. 00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:33.760 Yeah. 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.039 Could not imagine. 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.000 Okay, what's your not the worst thing that happened to you this week? 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:39.440 Oh gosh. 00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:46.000 Not the worst thing that happened to me, well, for sure, was Thursday soccer practice uh last week. 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:46.559 Oh yeah. 00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:47.920 I was like, what did my kid do? 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:52.800 No, no, and like I said, every Wednesday night and Thursday night are my ex-husband's nights. 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:54.719 We have soccer practice Tuesday, Thursdays. 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:55.360 I coach. 00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.320 I used to not hold practices on Thursdays, actually, because I didn't because remember, he has them Wednesday, Thursday. 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.159 Yeah, and I apparently, however that worked. 00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:03.039 I didn't want to do it. 00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:06.159 I didn't want to put myself in that situation and I want to put my kids in that situation. 00:48:06.320 --> 00:48:06.559 Yeah. 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.440 It's very tense for them when we're both at the same place at the same time. 00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:10.079 I know this. 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:10.960 They've told me this. 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.119 It was tense for me to see him in person today. 00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:14.079 Um, yeah. 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:20.480 And well, and at Thursday's practice, my ex-husband was kind of hovering around me and my youngest daughter. 00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:24.719 Yeah, my youngest daughter was very, very upset at him and she was in tears. 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:25.280 Why? 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:26.400 There's a reason why. 00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:27.920 Yeah, she wanted to go home. 00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:29.519 He didn't want to take her home. 00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:30.960 She had been out all afternoon. 00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:31.599 She was tired. 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:32.800 It was freezing outside. 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:37.199 And so I kind of stayed and held her on the side of the

field for like half an hour. 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.079 Um, but then my middle daughter was upset because I'm supposed to be there for her practice if I stay. 00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:45.760 And it is a piece of shit, my it's is there emotion for that? 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:49.679 Balancing those things in real time, I left. 00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:53.519 I couldn't, I actually I couldn't take wasn't fair to the kids or yourself. 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:54.800 It wasn't fair to me. 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:55.119 Right. 00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:56.800 I was like, what the what the hell? 00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:02.800 You everyone loses everyone's crying, everyone's mad at me again, yeah, and I'm gonna go home. 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:11.280 And I did feel bad, and that's my weekend how because then my middle daughter was like, you know, texting me all and this was my weekend, so it was only the two days, right? 00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.719 All five, two, two. 00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:13.920 Five, two, two split. 00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.400 Okay, two. 00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:17.039 It was my weekend, and so she was like texting me that night. 00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:18.000 Oh my god, I miss you. 00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:23.760 I'm like, if you were at my house yesterday, I'm gonna pick you up from school tomorrow, and I saw you at soccer practice. 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:26.960 It is just a lot of time away from your mom. 00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:33.840 Yeah, and I don't care what you say about 50-50, and if dad is just as good as a mom, okay, go tell your dad that then. 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:35.280 Yeah, like I don't know. 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.559 I talk to my mom every day, multiple times a day. 00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:46.639 Yeah, you know, especially as a child when you're upset or you had a fight with someone at school, or you're not sitting and talking to dad about that. 00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:57.760 Usually people go to their mom, and especially when you throw in the kind of personality my ex-husband has with kind of, I don't know if he's narcissistic, but he definitely has narcissistic traits. 00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:59.599 He's narcissistic, very self-centered. 00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:03.679 He never talks about what's gonna be best for the kids, he always talks about what's best for him. 00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:05.119 I don't think he talks about the kids. 00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:06.480 I think he talks about himself. 00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:13.519 My kids, my I've had one of my kids tell me that their dad has never asked them once about this divorce and how it's affected them. 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:15.599 Because I'll try and check in periodically. 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:16.800 Like, how are you feeling? 00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:24.079 Like when they have peers going through different things, peers two parent households or single like it's it's in a thing that we have to continue to do. 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:24.880 You know what just things. 00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:27.360 I'm sure that we'll just go into the alienation claim at one point. 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:29.039 Someone will hear this, I'll write it down, they'll be right back. 00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:31.039 She was talking to her kids about the divorce. 00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.039 Yeah, how it turns out they're not fucking babies. 00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:38.559 You heard her say he never talks about her or the court case or how a divorce would affect kids. 00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:39.119 Yeah. 00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:40.480 I'm sure you're right. 00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:41.840 So that was my week. 00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.599 Daddy's gonna go research Richard Gardner until his fingers fall off next week. 00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.119 He's gonna donate to Richard Gardner's Memorial Foundation. 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:52.000 Yeah, which is supposed to help support pedophiles. 00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:56.000 Yeah, I was just gonna say it's supposed to advocate against mandatory reporters being a thing. 00:50:56.079 --> 00:50:56.880 Well, good for them. 00:50:57.039 --> 00:50:58.559 Jen, what's your week in hell? 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:06.800 So yesterday, my real stepdad, my my stepdad raised me, my parents aren't one to donate money to a cause. 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:09.519 And I am strapped for cash with all these things that are going on. 00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.599 And my dad taught me how to work on cars. 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:13.599 This is a big thing we've always done together. 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:23.039 And I was telling him that I know that my brakes need replaced to take a look at my brake pads, and I was like, I just I'm so overwhelmed with the amount of things that I have going on in my life. 00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:28.000 That last thing that I can think of doing right now is getting under my car and doing anything to it. 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.679 I need an oil change, I need brake pads, and I need new tires. 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:33.440 But the tire situation is dire. 00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:37.440 This is a vehicle that I drive my children around in and they are that bald. 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:38.800 This is a dangerous environment. 00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:39.840 I know it's disturbing. 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:40.320 Disturbing. 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:42.079 So it's talking to my dad about it and I was just complaining. 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:47.840 And a couple weeks later, he comes back to me and he's like, Hey, I want you to go get new tires and have them look at your brakes and let me take care of it. 00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:49.280 And my parents don't do things like that. 00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:50.880 So I was like, that's very generous. 00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:57.679 I would love to tell him, no, can you just give me that money because I need it for my psych evaluation that's very in-depth to prove that I'm not crazy. 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.400 Um, but that was that was important. 00:52:00.559 -->

00:52:07.840 And so got really excited because it feels like I'm driving a I have a very modest 2017 vehicle that's got 70,000 miles on it. 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:09.840 I don't have the nicest house and I don't drive the nicest car. 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:10.480 Oh, stop it. 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:12.559 So it got really well, I'm just saying I live a modest life. 00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.559 I'm not out here blowing money so that I can't afford my psych evaluation and these court fines. 00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:17.760 So I was really excited. 00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:20.320 It feels like you're driving a brand new car when you get things like that done. 00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:22.960 Everything just feels exciting and new and fresh. 00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:32.800 And I woke up this morning to go get my kids some freaking donuts, and I get in my car, and everything from my center console and my glove compartment was out. 00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:35.920 I'm like, okay, somebody went through my entire car. 00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:39.199 So I don't keep any valuables in there, so it's okay. 00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:41.199 So I'm just like, you know what, this is not that bad. 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:43.199 I go to plug in my phone, realize they took my phone cord. 00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.159 Got home a little bit later and was like, let me go back through this and make sure. 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:55.519 And they stole my registration, which poses some risks for identity theft and using your VIN number to make a new key or registering stolen vehicles in your name. 00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:00.400 So this creates a whole litany of things that I have to do next week to make sure that I'm protected in this instance. 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:02.400 And it's just not something I need right now. 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:07.519 No, and now you need to park your car in the back because if they do go make a can't steal your car. 00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:07.920 Yeah. 00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:11.679 Uh, can we just not do this? 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:15.199 The amount of board meetings and work dinners I have this week, too. 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:18.639 Oh like I don't want to who wants to go to the Department of Licensing? 00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.280 Raise your hand. 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:19.519 Yeah. 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:20.159 Crickets. 00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:20.719 Thank you. 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:21.519 Okay, that's all. 00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:22.719 Well, that's pretty bad. 00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:23.679 It's just annoying. 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.239 It's annoying. 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:25.039 No, that's bad. 00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:26.480 My car got run through. 00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:28.000 Your c coffee money. 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:32.320 Yeah, they took my coffee money, but it was just an invasion of privacy too, which just feels gross. 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:35.360 I did feel a little bit like who was sitting in my car and doing what? 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:36.079 Yeah. 00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:37.119 I mean, go for it. 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:38.239 Do some drugs. 00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:40.000 I mean, I sure as hell I'm not. 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:41.920 So not allowed. 00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.159 Well, see ya over the fence. 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:45.440 See ya over the fence. 00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:45.760 Bye. 00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:46.159 Bye. 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.920 My kid doesn't wanna see me. 00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.320 It's your fault, not mine. 00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.159 It's your fault, not mine. 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.280 My kid doesn't wanna see me. 00:54:01.760 --> 00:54:03.679 It's your fault, not mine. 00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.440 It's your fault, not mine.