Dr David Kram - Why Opera Still Matters: Careers, Creativity and BrünnhAilde의 전체 녹취록

scholarship to Italy and it changed my life, I can 36 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.000 tell you, Karen. I was twenty one years old, so 37 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:34.400 basically it was Rome to Spoleto when I made my 38 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:41.039 debut Beautiful Place a festival, international festival. Then I needed 39 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.719 to explore the French speaking language and culture and the 40 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.360 German speaking language and culture. So I got my first 41 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.439 full time position was in Geneva in Switzerland, beautiful, beautiful 42 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.960 city where they speak French. Of course, the genev and 43 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:58.639 I was in one of the top ranking opera houses 44 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:04.960 in Europe. So that was a very very great privilege 45 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:08.159 for me. And then I realized, because I was working 46 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.639 on German operas there as well, I really needed a 47 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.000 thorough grounding in German opera. 48 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:19.240 You're a polyglosh, aren't you, because I've heard you speak French, Italian, English, German. 49 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:22.520 Is that true all languages? 50 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:24.560 Yeah, I even ms. 51 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:26.520 Wow, that's very handy for opera. 52 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:29.599 I'm not saying this to make myself more important. It's 53 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:32.000 just that that was my goal. That was my aim 54 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:35.360 because you know, I was trained as a musician, but 55 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.520 I've always felt myself to be more broad based, you know, 56 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:45.039 and I love working with people, and I'm interested in history, geography, society, 57 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.840 social you know. I could have done anything at the 58 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:53.520 university really except that and science. I love it. But 59 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:58.159 I'm hoping. So anyway, I thought what interest to me 60 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:08.120 was opera being this combination of art forms literature, visual arts, theater, music, history, 61 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:14.840 and it deals with all all manner of human relationships. Yes, yeah, 62 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.399 just I mean a lot. It's like a play with 63 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:23.600 music basically, yeah, all based on theater, and so I thought, 64 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.879 I mean, theater is based on culture. Culture is based 65 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.639 on people's society. I need to go to Italy where 66 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:35.319 it started. I mean, look, opera really started in our 67 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:40.720 western world in ancient Greece. After the Olympic Games. They 68 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:42.759 used to put on these you know, you've seen the 69 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:47.519 Greek amphitheaters. It's amazing Roman amphitheaters. And it was a 70 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:52.079 show that was a combination of our music, drama, dance, 71 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.439 et cetera. For the peace for the people. But also 72 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.639 here in Australia, the indigenous peoples their corrobberies. They transmit 73 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.759 their culture through this fusion of art forms. So it's 74 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:05.519 intrinsic in. 75 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.800 Her human future storytelling. 76 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.040 And I really started to understand opera when I worked 77 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:16.439 in these various countries. After Geneva, I went to Basel 78 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.079 where it's it's Swiss Germany, so it's sort of interesting 79 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:25.160 subculture of German culture. But the people in the theater 80 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:29.600 they spoke German. So I was there for five years. 81 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.480 It took me five years before I was able to 82 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:36.959 dream injure a little bit of switch Due as well, 83 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.480 and then from there to Mannheim. By that time I 84 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:42.680 had a family and my wife was Australian, so the 85 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.360 natural thing was to educate the children in Australia, and 86 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.000 she came from this beautiful city of Sydney. So now 87 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.800 I live in Victoria, and Sydney and Victoria are very 88 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:55.800 very close to my heart. But I'm actually one of 89 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.319 the few people who worked in every single state and 90 00:05:58.480 --> 00:05:59.959 territory in Australia. 91 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:05.879 You have, that's right, Western Australia too, even yeah. 92 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.680 Yeah. And the other thing is that, you know, when 93 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:11.040 I go back to Europe and sometimes I see the 94 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.759 same sort of people coming in and out of the 95 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:18.199 same stage door doing the same sort of operas. I think, look, 96 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.000 I may not be at the pinnacle of my conducting 97 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:25.759 career like the stars Simon Rattle. I could have been. 98 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:28.399 I was on their way there, but I've had much 99 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.319 more broad based because my interest in life is broad based. 100 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:36.240 Yes, yes, and that's why it's diversified now. With opera, 101 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.079 A lot of people would say that it's very elitist, 102 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:44.279 and you refer to the Greek Amphitheater where opera was 103 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:47.800 performed for everyone and it was stories that everyone could 104 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:50.600 relate to. What would you say to people listening that 105

00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:54.800 still feel that opera is out of their reach and 106 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.319 out of their you know status. I mean, it is 107 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.079 very elitist, and maybe it's because of pricing and the 108 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.839 affordability of putting things on. What do you say to that? 109 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:10.120 Okay, well, look this is recent experience, right. So, as 110 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:13.120 I said, we've spent my wife and I have spent 111 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:16.639 five weeks now we're in twenty twenty six now in May. 112 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:20.160 In March we were in Italy right from Milana to 113 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.480 the north to Sicily in the south. And during that 114 00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:28.480 time we saw operas and we got into the Vienna 115 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.839 State Opera the Vena starts offer, which is one of 116 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:37.040 the top top you know, operas in the world, and 117 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.279 we saw a ballet and it was fifteen euros. Oh 118 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:43.639 you know up the top it stood there, you know, 119 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:46.759 but you leant it was a leaning place, you know, 120 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.759 good view of the stage, one of the acoustics. Fifteen euros. 121 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:55.160 That's so, what's the problem do you think in Australia 122 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.560 why are we making it so inaccessible price wise? But 123 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:03.279 then there's the other story of or question as to 124 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.879 why it's not accessible in a cultural sense, because people 125 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:11.720 just think, oh, opera, I don't know much about it, 126 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.480 but I hear it's very complicated and I wouldn't understand it. 127 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.959 So there's I think maybe two problems or more in Australia, 128 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.519 where the prices of maybe two hundred and three hundred 129 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:29.279 dollars and people who may want to go feel a 130 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:33.159 little intimidated because they don't know the language. 131 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.799 Well, all these are true in a sense, and they're 132 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:40.759 true in America or in England, or you know, in 133 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.919 Italy you hear the Italian operas, but they hear others 134 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:47.600 as well. In Germany, they used to translate all their 135 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:52.200 operas into German, but now they're performing them in the 136 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:56.960 original languages with surb titles. So basically like going and 137 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:00.919 seeing a foreign film with the subtitle, except they're generally there. 138 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.840 But now also they're in the back of the seats. 139 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.559 You have a little TV screen and you can see 140 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.799 and this is what happened all around me. You know 141 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.519 that they would see the action on stage, but you 142 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:14.720 could choose your language. 143 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.240 I think that would help HELPLI. 144 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.000 Yeah, that helps as well, because it's lovely to hear 145 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:24.480 the opera sung in their original language because it's tailor made. 146 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:29.399 But there are you know, many translators. It's it's really 147 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:33.799 diverse as well. So I feel it's a great sadness 148 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.960 in Australia that the price, the price is inhibiting for 149 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:43.639 I'm not saying an opera should be free. Well, you 150 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.480 pay for a beer, you know now, you know, six 151 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:52.519 dollars for a coffee, yes, yeah, But when we went 152 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.039 to the Folkstaper, which is the People's Opera in Vienna, 153 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.000 it's a smaller opera house where they do light operas, 154 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.840 comic operas and operettas a bit like music. They do 155 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.679 music theater as well, and that was forty five euros, 156 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.120 but that was sort of like almost everywhere, so that's 157 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:14.399 about eighty dollars. Well, I mean, of course, people go 158 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:18.679 and see Taylor Swift pop concerts or something and they'll 159 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.200 pay four or five hundred dollars, or they're go and 160 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.360 see the MJ musical and they'll pay two or three 161 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.799 hundred dollars. The problem is, you know, it's not just 162 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:32.360 going to the theory, it's parking, which is now like 163 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.559 blanket price thirty two dollars. If you go to a 164 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:40.600 park babysitting, And on the other hand, people spend their 165 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:43.879 money on clothes and you know, I mean, even with 166 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.080 all the inflation and everything, people still go out and 167 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.559 eat in restaurants. So do you question of where you 168 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:51.120 put your money? 169 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:54.159 Yeah? So do you think the problem is that they're 170 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:58.039 not choosing to put their money towards opera because they 171 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:02.440 don't really connect with it, and how can we connect 172 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:07.279 it more so it's more relevant to them for the 173 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:10.039 next generation. Is it something that we need to do 174 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:13.399 as a society if we do want to keep

opera 175 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.720 alive and other musical forms, classical music or music in general, 176 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.879 just making music more accessible to the general public, how 177 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.360 do we do that? Do you think for the next generation? 178 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.480 Is there any sort of planning we should do, because 179 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:33.200 it's a long term vision, I think that, well, it 180 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.840 takes a long time to change the culture, doesn't it. 181 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:42.799 Yeah, it does. We have more ways of experiencing opera now. 182 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.200 You know, I can see opera for free if I 183 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:49.320 get onto YouTube. Now I can see the best, you know, 184 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:52.600 some of the stars, and they have a concert or 185 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:55.919 they have recordings and full operas. So you put your 186 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:59.159 ear plugs in because it's better than the speakers. You know, 187 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.919 all got that sort of surround sound. So that's one 188 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:05.440 way you can do it. 189 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.279 Maybe our schools from primary school, they should maybe experience 190 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:12.879 a little bit of opera. 191 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.480 Well they do. Like when I was in Italy. I 192 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.080 was in Genova, which is a beautiful, beautiful town, and 193 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.120 we went to see one of their main stage robbers. 194 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.320 It was a comic opera, but there were fifteen hundred 195 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.759 children in that room and very enthusiastic. What were their teachers? 196 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.960 And they learned the main song at the end, So 197 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.879 at the end they played the song and they think. 198 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.720 I've also got a little video clip of some kids 199 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:44.480 outside the famous San Carlo opera in Naples, and I 200 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:47.879 was in this sort of shopping mall, nineteenth century shopping mall, 201 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:51.399 Galeria Umberto, and all these kids were running around this 202 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:56.720 sort of Egyptian CoRIS what you know. Oh, I bet 203 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:01.360 they're going to school's presentation of their design. And they 204 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.679 were outside and they were so gorgeous. They were singing 205 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:15.320 away and doing. All Egyptians now in every I mean, 206 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:20.279 all the opera companies now have to do schools education. 207 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.639 They've had to do it for years, you know, I 208 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:27.440 mean the question is is becoming very difficult now he 209 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:32.120 had excursion, the insurances and that this, and the health 210 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.679 and safety and the curriculum and all that. 211 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:38.960 And they only have so much budget to even for incursions, 212 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.440 and so they have to choose between someone that's coming 213 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:45.879 in with robotics or you know, versus someone who's coming 214 00:13:45.879 --> 00:13:47.080 in with a bit of opera. 215 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:52.480 So after the Second World War, I mean, opera in 216 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.399 Australia has been going on since the gold Rush even before. 217 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.559 But the gold Rush created a lot of theaters where 218 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:04.559 now in Melbourne and there were thirty six theaters, including 219 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:08.000 eight Chinese theaters. That's incredible Melbourne in the moon time 220 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:12.039 in the nineteenth century, marvelous Melbourne and including lots of 221 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:16.320 opera traveling opera companies from Europe mostly and that went 222 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.919 on and it's still the Southerland Williamson Opera Tour in 223 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:24.720 the nineteen sixties, I think it was introducing the young Pavarotti, 224 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:29.279 giving him a break Joan Sutherland. And there is also 225 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:35.600 a very big tradition of famous Australian opera singers right 226 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.279 like opera you know, like film stars as well, yes, 227 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:44.879 you know, and et cetera. But Opera, Dame Nellie Melbourne, 228 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:51.679 Dame Jones, Southerland's names, John Hammond, Dad. In fact, Australian 229 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:58.919 artists are everywhere, dancers orchestral musicians, actors, painters. They're very 230 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:03.559 successful because they have good education. That one thing. Good 231 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:08.720 musical education, good drama education, the Australian spirit, the Australian 232 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.679 way of interacting with people, very down to earth, very 233 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.639 personable and hard work. 234 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:18.799 They don't mind that. 235 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.759 That's a little anecdote. And my first wife, she was 236 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.159 not in the arts, so she loved music. She was 237 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:27.960 a physiotherapist and she trained at the Rown Hospital in Sydney. 238 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.080 So she went on the boat, you know, and I 239 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.600 landed in London. She went to one of the big 240 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.240 university hospitals there and she said hello, my name is Tony, 241 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.240 I'm a physiost therapist from Sydney. When can you start. 242 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.039 A week later she was hauled into the

office. Tony, 243 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.600 thank you very much for doing great Gray. There's just 244 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:55.639 one thing. Can you work a little slower? Wow, I'm 245 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.559 just doing my job. That's the whole thing about Oz is, 246 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:05.279 you know, very adaptable and resilience, Mark resilient. So why 247 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:10.960 is opera going, you know, up and down. Let's look 248 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.840 at the post war period, Okay, there was not much 249 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:20.200 opera except Gertrude Johnson. She'd been an opera singer internationally 250 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.320 and she came back in the nineteen thirties started the 251 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:29.360 National Opera Movement in Melbourne, Okay. And that then gave 252 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:34.440 birth to the Elizabethan Trust when Queen Elizabeth was crowned 253 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.919 in nineteen fifty three, and then that gave birth to 254 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.200 the Opera School, and then that became the Victorian College 255 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.120 of the Arts, Opera etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. By that time 256 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.120 there was a ballet company and an opera company and 257 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.559 they were sort of organized by committees, one in Sydney 258 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.399 and one of Melbourne. And then they decided to build 259 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.679 the Sydney Opera House. So the government decided, right, the 260 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.519 ballet can be based in Melbourne and the opera will 261 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.640 be based in Sydney. Ok But then you also have 262 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.079 the state operas. You had Victoria State Opera which attained 263 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:13.279 a very very high standard, very high with international artists 264 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:19.440 as well. The Australia is based in Sydney, but they 265 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.200 have a brief tour, so they spent three months in Melbourne. 266 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:26.480 I was with them for eight years, you know, when 267 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:31.200 a moment, my physiotherapists wife, the one who was working too, 268 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.400 and our two kids, and we lived in Sydney and 269 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.599 I'd go everywhere, first by ferry from Manly and then 270 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:42.720 on the train from the North Shore into the opera house. 271 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:47.400 I know all that really really well. So the point 272 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.880 is the audiences in the early days were the people 273 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:00.559 who'd emigrated to Australia from Europe, because in Europe it 274 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:05.720 was like second nature. There was no internet, TV, apps. 275 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.000 No, it's a part of their culture and their histories. 276 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.079 What do they do? There wasn't much else to do. 277 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.519 I mean in Australia you can play golf, you can 278 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.039 go yachting, you can go oreser lots of outdoor activities 279 00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:20.680 as well. And the in Europe, you know, because the 280 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.839 weather and everything. The theater was the hub, and the 281 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:28.680 theater was one building in which apart for the huge 282 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:34.359 opera houses in which there was opera, ballet, straight theater, musicals, 283 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.400 concerts and everything with one orchestra and everything, it was 284 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.200 all under one roup. And it's did it so at 285 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:44.960 the moment you were talking about more than Opera, which 286 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.319 was a company that I founded with a group of 287 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:52.119 like minded people, know us, Yeah, well it sort of 288 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.200 ties in as the immigrants they grew up and they still, 289 00:18:57.400 --> 00:18:59.880 you know, even in their late age now are still 290 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:05.920 very much devoted audience and sponsors and patrons because you 291 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.400 can't just do opera just by ticket prices. Although Melbourne 292 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:14.599 Opera does, they don't get any government funding. This is 293 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.960 a local opera company run by Greg Hacking and they 294 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:21.039 do a lot of performances of the athne and Theater 295 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:28.599 in Melbourne. Their ticket prices and their benefaction so they 296 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.079 are now you know, the next generation are coming and 297 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.480 the next generation tend to go to dance a lot 298 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.519 that's very popular and straight theater, but opera a little less. 299 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.359 You know, there are more. But it's so that is 300 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:50.319 the challenge and why it's because their parents used to 301 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.920 bring them but there was not that backup. Because Australia 302 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:59.039 doesn't regard itself as a cultural nation. It is a 303 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:02.240 cultural nation, but it doesn't really believe it's not part 304 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:07.079 of its ethosis. Whereas in Italy, oh yes we have Verdi. 305 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.440 In Germany we have Beethoven and Bach. 306 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:14.119 And all these other international identity really something. 307 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.519 Now there's a very very wonderful person in Melbourne called 308 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.359 Hans Henkock. Oh yes, and I've had a partnership with 309 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.359 Hans since two thousand and two,

really two thousand and three. 310 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:27.319 It's a great patron of the arts, isn't it. 311 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:27.720 Well. 312 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.359 When I was a guest conductor in Wiesbaden, which is 313 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:34.079 a very wealthy, beautiful city with a spas and casinos 314 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.279 and being near Frankfort, it's on the River Rhine in 315 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.880 the area where they do the Reasling white wine and 316 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.599 or there, and the Henkel sparkling wine is world famous. 317 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.119 It's been world famous for two centuries. Okay, it was 318 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:54.039 the first wine to be sort of branded as an 319 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:59.680 international brand. And I did concerts in the Henkel building 320 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:05.559 right because the original Henkel traveled to America, to Australia 321 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.519 even let's talk about the early nineteenth century. So I 322 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.000 did concerts and then I saw everywhere I went in 323 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.279 the opera. When I came back to Melbourne in nineteen 324 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:20.480 ninety five with my second wife, with Belinda Henkel here, 325 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.160 henkeled there and eventually I met him and he had 326 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.759 been taken to the opera as a child by his 327 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:31.640 mother and had fallen in love with the opera and 328 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:34.359 in fact his mother had seen me in action in 329 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.279 the orchestra Hid as a conductor, so we bonded. It 330 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.039 was meant to be. So we had this very unique 331 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.400 partnership of business because he runs a property management company 332 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.519 and has done for fifty years. Yes, and myself with 333 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:50.960 the arts with an interest in business. Yes. 334 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:54.359 And he's a sponsor of the German Australia Opera grad 335 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:54.880 Is it right? 336 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:58.400 Exactly what? We did it together because he wanted to 337 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:02.880 contribute back to Yes, and also back to his hometown, 338 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.759 but also as an Australian helping the next generation of 339 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:14.720 Australian opera singers. So we are the only opera grant 340 00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:19.119 in Australia offering a full time position for one year, 341 00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:25.839 proper salary position as a principal artist in the Hessisious 342 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:29.920 Statzkyat in Wisbaden, which is the state theater of the 343 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:34.359 of the State of Hessen, one of the provinces in Germany. 344 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:36.920 And you're actually running all the master classes prepping them 345 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:40.000 for the scholarship right now. I think you've just been 346 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.640 all around Australia, had laid et cetera. 347 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he's been going for twenty five years. 348 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.160 Twenty five osis have made their career because opera is 349 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:53.599 an international career. 350 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:54.599 Yes, that's right. 351 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:58.079 It is possible to make a career in opera in 352 00:22:58.200 --> 00:23:02.400 Australia if you do other things, let's say music. 353 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:06.240 Teaching, yeah, economy, Yeah, that's right. 354 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.599 That's if you really don't want to leave Australia. But look, 355 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.720 when we were in Vienna just a few weeks ago, 356 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:20.039 my wife and I met two Australian opera singers. Margaret Plumber, yes, 357 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.079 who's from New South Wales, and she won a scholarship 358 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.200 to the Vienna State Opera and that was a very 359 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.799 brief scholarship. It was just like it, you know, sort 360 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.920 of yeah, but then they liked her, she auditions, she 361 00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:35.960 stayed there and then they extended her contract. So she's 362 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.960 really one of the furniture, you might say, in Vienna. 363 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.079 Very good. She and her husband, who was also an 364 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:45.279 opera singer, they had a second house in the country, 365 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.440 and their children go to they're really well established in Austria. 366 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.279 Is a very good because that's another difference, Karen. Here, 367 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:59.039 the upper companies are private entities they may get government support, 368 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.799 but they're basically you're a private employee or a subcontractor. 369 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.039 The uper companies in Europe, especially in Germany, Switzerland and Austria, 370 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:12.680 are government enterprises. When I was working in barsel Mannheim, etc. 371 00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.200 I had the pension fund, I had the health insurance, 372 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.599 you know, the statutory We even had a thirteen month salary. 373 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.000 And so the other person we met was a young 374 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:31.440 young singer making her way called Alexandra Flood, and she 375 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.960 had won various scholarships. She went to Munich, she won 376 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.720 a scholar prize there, went to Paris, did some education 377 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.119 and now she's full time at that other opera house 378 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.079 the folkswap

where they know the light or opera. She's 379 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:50.920 very happy, she's just had a baby and she's very 380 00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.920 well catered for. So it's no they told us, like 381 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.359 Alexander said that they've just moved into a new flat right, 382 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:05.720 And when the people knew that she was an opera singer, 383 00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:09.359 they said, oh, that's fantastic. Please open the windows so 384 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:13.519 we're hearing you. You know, I go like I remember 385 00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.839 I was in Italy and I just had a scarf 386 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.240 or something like that tie of you know, musical tie. 387 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:23.200 It's might as well. I'm proud of being a musician. 388 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.200 And they know, like the person who was selling a 389 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:29.440 train ticket, you know, oh you're in opera and we 390 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.440 had this discussion about Verdi and Va and Puccini and 391 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.119 which you know they knew because they knew all their 392 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.079 culture Germany. I spoke to a tram driver who was 393 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:43.799 a subscriber to the opera, so even a car hire 394 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:49.000 person in Paris, you know, knew about this. It's immersive. 395 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.119 But I mean, what can we do? That was a 396 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.279 very important question. That was the history there, and now 397 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.920 we're at this ten general point. 398 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.240 We had a lot of competing destroy actions. I mean 399 00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.519 they're all good. Music is all good, whether it's electronic 400 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:11.279 or you know, grungeur, you know pop. But how do 401 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:18.799 we as opera patrons promote that that genre in different ways? 402 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.039 I think you have to have a multifested approach. Let 403 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.519 me emphasize I have an interest in business and marketing, 404 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:32.960 but I'm not really a professional marketer. So here say this. 405 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:36.440 Here say yeah, it's a long term thing, and that's 406 00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:42.079 why MTO was founded. Yes, as a long term enterprise, 407 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:44.680 and we've now been you know, in an independent company 408 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:46.599 for twenty five years it's still going. 409 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.079 What sort of things do you do to support the 410 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.920 artists through MTO, apart from the German Australian Opera Grant, 411 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.559 which is magnificent. I think you were mentioning the other 412 00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:05.000 day you do mentoring, work shops, professional development, performance opportunities. 413 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:06.000 Is that correct? 414 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.119 Yeah, And it's almost slightly different were we call ourselves 415 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:13.400 the cockroaches of opera because there are the you know, 416 00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:18.680 the government funded or major upper companies that do standard 417 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.960 operas and they go to a theater and they do it. 418 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:24.960 And I felt when I founded MTO, and this came 419 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.119 out of the education sector because I used to run 420 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:32.799 the opera studio for the Victorian College that for ten years, 421 00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.240 and I saw the changing face of opera and I said, 422 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.160 I've been now in Australia since nineteen seventy eight and 423 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.480 it's now nineteen it was two thousand. I said, there's 424 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:50.279 still the problem of people having a very narrow vision 425 00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.319 of what opera was. You know, it was either based 426 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.240 on the stereotypes, you know, the fat woman with the horns, 427 00:27:57.319 --> 00:28:00.920 all that stuff, or it was that they knew a 428 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.839 bit about opera, but they only knew a certain repertory, 429 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:08.000 a certain way of doing it, so we sort of 430 00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.240 broke opera up in its components and put it back together. 431 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.079 So in the heyday of Interior, because I hadn't been 432 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.599 on the board since twenty eighteen, they've changed their focus. 433 00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:25.799 But in our history we've done we've done operas in schools, 434 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.160 but they were not your traditional operas that the major 435 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.559 opera companies do. They get funding to do the standard operas, 436 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:38.799 sometimes in miniature formats, and they take them around the schools. 437 00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:42.799 Even they now the funding is a problem and the 438 00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:46.039 logistics it's become very difficult, but they still do it. 439 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:55.319 We did lesser known operas in schools or original operas, 440 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.920 like there was an opera that I wrote actually called 441 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:02.160 a Postcard from Carlton and it was about Italians living 442 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.359 in Melbourne and the cultures and all that sort of thing, 443 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:11.079 and that was actually involved children. So they actually were 444 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.279 children's choirs primary you know, if there was a school 445 00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.559 that had a kid's choir in a primary school or 446 00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.279 the Bendigo Youth Choir

or that sort of thing, they 447 00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:22.680 would learn the songs and they'd be part of the brod. 448 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:23.799 That's wonderful. 449 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:29.720 Yeah, yeah, See the problem in Australia is that it's 450 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.160 not it's very difficult to keep these things sustainable because 451 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:36.839 the bedrock of funding is not there. You can't do 452 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.240 it without money. People need to be paid, and there's 453 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.240 lots of other costs, as you know from running a business. 454 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:49.200 It's not just about paying artists. You know, there's touring cost, 455 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.720 travel costs, a lot of moments, it's egal and everything, 456 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.160 and it gets more and more complicated. Even just hiring 457 00:29:55.240 --> 00:29:59.319 a venue is much more complicated that it was even 458 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:00.000 in Say. 459 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.640 I think that's why we have to start looking for 460 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:09.480 partnerships where there's a win win opportunity for both sides 461 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.720 or multi sides, like what we were trying to do 462 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:16.240 this morning, Like would you like to share with the 463 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:20.160 listeners what we are planning for later on this year. 464 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.599 Sumi Joe is a Korean soprano, a real star, I. 465 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:28.960 Mean national treasure. 466 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.359 Oh Korea. I'm Korean, and Korea is a country. It's 467 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.440 a smallish country compared to say to China, but it 468 00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:42.839 punches above its weight in culture. Yes, in instrumental music 469 00:30:43.039 --> 00:30:46.240 and also in the opera singers. And in fact, I've 470 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:48.440 told you. This is the recent trip that I've been 471 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.799 to Italy. The best singers out singing the Italians or 472 00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:54.599 the Koreans. 473 00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.000 Koreans are pretty yoloshimi. Yoshmi. We have that word which 474 00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.480 means like really go for it whatever they do. That's 475 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:05.400 why you see a lot of golfers who are Korean 476 00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.440 and in the music sphere too. They will practice until 477 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:10.000 their fingers have blisters. 478 00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:15.319 Anyway, Summi Joe, yes, you know, she's past her mid 479 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.559 career point and she's, like many other singers, wants to 480 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:21.559 plow back her expertise. 481 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:25.000 Well, she's celebrating forty years, which is an incredible achievement. 482 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.680 It is on stage and she was here in

Queensland 483 00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.720 here as in Australia last year with the Queensland Symphony 484 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.880 Orchestra and they played outside an outdoor concert and she's 485 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.799 sang with the Corco Barrows. It was amazing. So she 486 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.599 loves Australia and is really looking forward to coming back. 487 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:47.599 So we'll be working with her, won't we. 488 00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:51.279 Yeah, that's right. Avoiding a partnership with Sumi Joe, which 489 00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:56.079 is wonderful for Australia and it also gives Sumi Joe 490 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:01.000 that extra facet to her life life long career. 491 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:04.039 Yeah, well, she's wanting to give back to the community 492 00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:08.079 and support through master classes the emerging artists that are 493 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.880 ready for the world stage, which I think is wonderful. 494 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.480 Like you're giving back to the opera community with all 495 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:25.599 your your projects. We haven't even mentioned Brunhelder, which is well, 496 00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.319 you should explain that giving more access to opera through 497 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:30.319 different mediums. 498 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.960 So this goes back to when I was saying that 499 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.920 MTO tried to do things differently to fill the gaps. Yes, 500 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.839 so we didn't tread the paths, but we tread between 501 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.400 the paths because the motto was not just to increase 502 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:50.160 opera audiences, but to make opera, the name opera more 503 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:56.000 relevant to more types of people, more accessible relevant. Now, 504 00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.519 of course, schools is one of the places where you 505 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:02.559 do it because you helping the younger generation. But I 506 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:05.839 believe that families are important, and not just their parents 507 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:10.440 but their grandparents, because as people get older, they often 508 00:33:10.519 --> 00:33:14.839 do get more interested in things spiritual, things cultural, and 509 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.240 therefore they love bringing their young kids to that. You know, 510 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:23.119 and the children often the children who become opera devotees 511 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.720 in their adultthood. Attribute that to their earlier visits. 512 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.720 So you have to work with multi writing memories. Yeah. 513 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:36.400 Multiple. There's another thing. It only takes one person of 514 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:41.319 influence to influence a whole generation. Look at Don Dunstan, 515 00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.400 the Premiere of South Australia. South Australia was never really 516 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:48.640 a cultural state, and then he said, I think it 517 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.960 should be a cultural state. So he built the Adelaide 518 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:56.680 Festival Center, created the Adelaide Festival and did everything. And 519 00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:00.480 now South Australia is that the stay to the art 520 00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:07.119 Bason right, one of those European immigrants who came made 521 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.679 a lot of money in the business. He started the 522 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.840 Castle Main Festival in central Victoria. Yes, Hans Henkel is 523 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:20.719 the most What we need is more people like that. Yes, 524 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:23.599 well you're one of those people, Dicaimer, for example, the 525 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:29.360 Premier of Victoria. People who have affluent and have made 526 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:31.840 a lot of and of course now in Australia there 527 00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:36.719 are many many millionaires, especially in the tech area or 528 00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:42.960 in property. Those are the people who really, if they 529 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:47.320 can be interested in opera, realize the value of opera. 530 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.639 You need leaders from the music sphere or music patrons 531 00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:58.360 to funnel their enthusiasm and their coin this way, as. 532 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:04.159 Then the prices will go down. Yes, you know, people 533 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.280 won't have to pay two hundred dollars to get in. 534 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.280 They can say it's a blind demand, isn't it. 535 00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:13.760 Yeah, I mean ideally, That's why I'd like to say, 536 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.039 is opera tickets that you could get, not all of them, 537 00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:19.519 but for cinema prices. 538 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:20.280 You know. 539 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.159 Yeah, people go out to the movies now, no problem, 540 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:27.840 movies and then you get a meal deal or whatever. 541 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:36.280 It's also let's not forget the wealthy retired people as well. 542 00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:40.800 You know, it's not just because opera has always had 543 00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:46.800 that audience as well. People who have income, who have assets, 544 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.239 et cetera. And they are you know, amazingly educated, et cetera. 545 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.599 And they are the faithful opera doorers as well. 546 00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.760 They know the value of opera and music, what it 547 00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:07.000 can to our mental wellbeing and also our emotional balances. 548 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:12.800 Emotional balance, It stimulates our mind, It creates conversations as well, 549 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.840 because then you have discussion groups, you have clubs, etc. 550

00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:22.039 I just gave some lectures in Milano. You see, there's 551 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:26.679 a music company in Music Tour Company in Sydney and 552 00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:30.039 they have groups of twenty people, and they are all 553 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:33.400 well healed, of course, and they're well traveled, but they 554 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:38.159 love it. And the opera appeals to everybody really water. 555 00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:41.960 And look, we're not just talking about the traditional repertoire, 556 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.119 the traditional top of the pops, you know, we're talking 557 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.280 of three hundred years of different musical styles. And let's 558 00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:53.840 not forget music. Theater is a sort of an opera 559 00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:57.800 because it has dance, music, song. It's just a slightly 560 00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.800 different style of music. Music itself has evolved from the 561 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:06.039 operatus side of the early twentieth century through to the 562 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:10.320 sort of American post war Rogers and Hannerstein, through to 563 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.320 the more rock operas you know, Chicago and that sort 564 00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:19.440 of thing, and now to the Hamilton, and so there 565 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.920 will always be it's an evolving If you look at 566 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.039 operas a very broad definition, there'll always be that thing 567 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.719 because it's that power. But there is one crucial difference, 568 00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:40.800 and that is live versus not live. So not live, 569 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:46.679 it's like recordings, right, either audio recordings or YouTube whatever. 570 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.800 You know, Cinema people go and see go to a 571 00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:53.280 cinema and they see recording video recordings of the great 572 00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:56.400 opera houses and the great operas and they love that. However, 573 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:04.159 unamplified orchestra with an unamplified voice in a big opera 574 00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:08.000 house is so you can't describe it. 575 00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:10.880 Yes, it goes right through your body even feel it. 576 00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:15.119 And also even just one singer and a piano in 577 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:18.400 a smaller space or in a club. Let's say, I 578 00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:20.639 mean you and I have done lots of dinners, you know, 579 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.039 where there's entertainment between the courses and the penis and 580 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:28.039 the singers go around the table and they sing, and 581 00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.199 the audience just feels that connection. 582 00:38:32.440 --> 00:38:38.000 It's a true connection that you don't get through a screen. Ye, right, yes, 583 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:41.360 Now a lot of people

listening might think, oh, I 584 00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:47.239 do love opera and I would like to become part 585 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.760 of the opera industry, or parents maybe thinking I would 586 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.800 love my daughter or son to become an opera singer. 587 00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.400 How would you advise someone who was in sit in 588 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.400 going into the world of opera, How would you advise them? 589 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:10.480 Because it is quite a precarious sort of journey, isn't it. 590 00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:11.480 It's not smooth. 591 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.920 So nothing is smooth, you know. If you want to 592 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:20.440 become a top AFL player, it just doesn't come by mangic. 593 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:23.960 If you want to become a top scientist, to top anything, 594 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:26.880 a top taxi driver. You know, you have to work 595 00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:31.159 at it and you have to get experience. So where 596 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.679 do the opera singers come from nowadays? And there are 597 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.639 quite a number of As I said, I've been giving 598 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:40.719 these masterclines. Yes, some of them start in children's choirs 599 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:45.480 like the Australian Boys Choir, Australian Girls all these choirs 600 00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:52.440 or school choirs or church choirs or other wires. That 601 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.719 is one way if we're talking about a singer, okay. 602 00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.960 And then they're also private teachers and they give private 603 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.400 vocal lessons. And then you have the conservatoriums, so the 604 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:13.679 Sydney Conservatorium, Melbourne Conservatorium, Queensland Whopper, Western Australian Academy of 605 00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:18.320 Performing Arts and others as well the Elder Conservatorium. They 606 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:23.039 all have vocal courses. Actually, because it used to be 607 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:28.360 that you had the practical conservatoriums on one side and 608 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:32.239 the academic universities on the other side. But since Dawkins 609 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:37.000 Reform they have merged, you know. So the Melbourne Conservatorium 610 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.719 is part of Melbourne University etc. So they do a 611 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.679 music course generally to do a bachelors or an honors. 612 00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:50.239 The next couple of extra years are masters and then 613 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:54.519 what you know, some of them decide that they do 614 00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:58.320 a double degree, so they actually become lawyers of everything. 615 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:03.119 But they still have that they background because opera, vocal 616 00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:08.280 or anything music teaches you generic skills because for gamp, 617 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.920 you're a viola player, a violin player, you're playing with 618 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.760 other people, etc. You're discipline you have to learn so 619 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:18.159 very very important gineering skills. It helps the brain development 620 00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:22.079 as well. But let's say you're saying, right, come what may, 621 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.880 I'm going to be an opera singer. Well, I always 622 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:31.159 say to people, you know, act global, act local, think global. 623 00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:36.039 There are opportunities in Australia for doing things like young 624 00:41:36.199 --> 00:41:40.800 artists programs, amateur opera's, semi professional operas, and that's what 625 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.199 a lot of people do. A lot of people generate 626 00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:47.679 their own work as well, you know, write their own material, 627 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:53.800 et cetera. But in the end, you follow the dollar. 628 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:57.199 You follow the dollar. That's what I did. You know, 629 00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:02.239 I said, look England. Not only was it too narrow 630 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:06.519 for my cultural horizon, but there work opportunities are very 631 00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.840 very you know, pay was not good and it was 632 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:15.400 very precarious. That's why my parents could have been professional musicians, 633 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.199 they were professionally trained. They went into business instead. 634 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:21.320 You know, So you have to be in it for 635 00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.920 the long haul, don't you, because it can be a 636 00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:29.239 very long journey. And would you say that networking is 637 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.079 also a very important part of the journey. 638 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:36.159 It's absolutely marketing now more and more and more. You know, 639 00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:40.000 in the old days, it was your auditioned and if 640 00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:43.519 you were talented, then you will be taken. Now a 641 00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.519 lot of the auditions are just video and you have 642 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:50.719 you know, and it's the way the world has changed. Yes, 643 00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:55.320 you know, the well using AI to develop presentations. 644 00:42:55.079 --> 00:42:58.159 In a way, it's more in their control too, because 645 00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:00.679 if they can build up a following and and be 646 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:06.440 a bit more innovative and create their own productions, whether 647 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:11.159 they're small or in collaboration, just creating a portfolio that 648 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.079 they can put on their social media. I think people 649 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:18.719 that are looking out for talent are looking on those platforms. 650 00:43:19.119 -->

00:43:22.360 You know, if someone has ten twenty thousand followers, I 651 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.039 mean they're going to gain someone's attention. 652 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.840 Absolutely, And you've made a very important point there, Karen, 653 00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:33.840 because even in the highly subsidized theaters in Europe because 654 00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:36.519 of funding and because of politics, because of this and 655 00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:41.519 that and the other. They do like to employ people 656 00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:48.119 who have audience appeal, audience who can bring people into. 657 00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:52.920 Exactly it almost becomes a collaboration because if they're going 658 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.719 to bring their followers or their fan base, then it 659 00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:01.760 makes the job of marketing selling tickets a little bit easier. 660 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:05.599 That apart from the purely cultural point of view, I 661 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.719 say to our singers, you've learned your Italian and German 662 00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:13.239 et cetera, and Australia. That's really good. But do what 663 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:17.719 I did. You've got to go to Europe and immerse yourself, 664 00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:23.920 drink it or in the local cultures, whether it's Italian, German, French, 665 00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:26.960 or ideally or all those of the major ones. There's 666 00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:30.480 Russian and Czech as well, but Spanish. Let's look at 667 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:36.639 those three and there are more opportunities as well, especially 668 00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:41.480 in the German speaking. It's not easy, but look I've 669 00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.480 just spoken to like in Lascala. I went to the 670 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.199 ring cycle in Lascala. It was part of my job. 671 00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:49.599 Yes, well, you are the go to person for the 672 00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:50.239 ring cycle. 673 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.320 You are I call myself, They call me an expert 674 00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.679 would I say, I'm an expert in curiosity. I'm always 675 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:03.280 sort of you know why that let's look at that anyway. 676 00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.960 Out of the cars there were four asses, four Australians, 677 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:14.840 Simon and young Okay, Derek Welton Barrington who was brought in. 678 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.360 He was in Lyon in France and they needed a 679 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.960 lead role. He was playing the lead role called Vauton 680 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.920 and for some reason, you know, they needed somebody got 681 00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:27.840 sick and they didn't have somebody in place, so they 682 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.360 got him from Lyon. He had to drive in the 683 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.880 car all the way from Lyon quickly, hotel, shower, make up. Wow, 684 00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.960 he did a great job. Caroline Winborne and Catherine Carvey. 685 00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:44.840 So four in that cart, as I said, go to 686 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:49.400 Vienna to Ozz. At least you know there are also 687 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:50.760 people in the orches, David. 688 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.679 You have to tell them and encourage them to come 689 00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:56.880 back and bring their ideas and their leadership back to Australia. 690 00:45:57.599 --> 00:45:59.440 I can't they do a lot. 691 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:02.519 For example, if we look at our twenty five years 692 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:10.159 history with the German Australian opera, Darcy Carrol, he's come 693 00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:18.000 back and he's doing exactly Christmas. I can name probably 694 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.079 almost a dozen es who've come back and are either 695 00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:27.239 active musically or doing teaching or mentoring as well, because 696 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:29.400 it is a mobile yes, and. 697 00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:34.039 It's a global market anyway, so we're always happy that 698 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:38.519 you come back because you're always flitting off overseas and 699 00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:41.119 I think the Australian music scene is worried that you 700 00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:43.599 won't come back. That you are and you're doing so 701 00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.840 many amazing things here for the next generation. 702 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:48.559 Australian by choice. 703 00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:51.840 So I'm going to give you some rapid fire questions 704 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:56.440 to finish up. Okay, what is your favorite opera? 705 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:02.519 The Magic Flute? Lovely? It's not really an I mean 706 00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:05.320 it's not really an opera because it's not sung right through. 707 00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:10.840 Although yes, operas can have spoken dialogue. You might say 708 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.119 it's like a music theater piece, you know, with a 709 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:19.920 dialogue music dialogue opera, but it's it's called an opera. Brilliant. 710 00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:24.400 It's on the surface it's a little comedy, but it 711 00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:29.440 has such depth and such philosophical meaning. Yeah, and that's 712 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:31.519 you know, it's a mystery in many ways. 713 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:38.079 Yeah, Mozart is. Yes. Most memorable performance. 714 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:43.679 Actually, I would say when I was in Rome and 715 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:48.039 studying in Rome and I was got free tickets because 716 00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.159 I was able to get part to become part of 717 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:55.199 the which is a group of people who had whose 718 00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:00.239 job it was to applaud at certain specific points and performance, okay, 719 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:07.559 to get the audience

going. And so they were like 720 00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.800 Aida with Gwyneth Jones, a famous Welsh soprano and especially 721 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:19.000 if you are great Italian myts of soprano. And I 722 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.519 thought she was the tallest person on stage, but actually 723 00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.559 she was very petite. And I realized it because when 724 00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:28.360 she was singing she always had this big flowing costume. 725 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:33.159 And she came to Melbourne and she sang the same 726 00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:37.440 role for Victoria State Operas and said they got fantastic people. 727 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.519 And I was so excited. I jumped up at the end, 728 00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:42.039 said you've given us. 729 00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:48.639 I don't think they'd really do that in Melbourne. Do 730 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:52.840 that maybe Italy or Europe. I noticed that the concert 731 00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.559 started up, and do that. But we're very, very very 732 00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.239 tame here, aren't we in Melbourne? Do you think we 733 00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:09.559 except for youause wonderful okay, and your dream collaboration. 734 00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:16.960 With you all, No, no, it's dream collaboration would be 735 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:23.480 I would love to see Brun hailed this groundbreaking, world 736 00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:32.360 shattering a I animated, assisted, integrated, live and filmic opera production. 737 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:36.800 Yes, but it's a condensed version of Wagner Cycle into 738 00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.719 ninety minutes, which is incredible. 739 00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:42.639 Well, look, you know, I just I went to see yesterday. 740 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:46.880 We went to see In the Gray, which is a thriller, 741 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:50.159 you know, Guy Ritchie film, and there was a trailer 742 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.280 for some sort of epic thing about a flaming sword 743 00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:59.639 or something, some you know, Marvel comic, and that's exactly 744 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:03.400 what Barger is. Yeah, it is. It's pretty fantastical, yes, 745 00:50:04.079 --> 00:50:06.079 and so the whole thing. So I think it will 746 00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:10.000 really strike accord in all the general. 747 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:14.920 So a symphonic orchestra condensed to five saxophones, yeah, the 748 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:16.480 reason written by David. 749 00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:19.760 The reason is that if you do Wagner's Ring Cycle 750 00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:23.840 in its original form, there's one hundred and twenty musicians 751 00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:29.079 in the orchestra. Twenty eight principles sets you to die for. 752 00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:35.280 It's really expenc So I've created this for opera companies 753 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:38.440 that can't afford to do the Ring and who want 754 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:42.840 to extend their audience space by bringing families in to 755 00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:46.000 the to the space. 756 00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:49.719 Yeah, it's very innovative, and it brings in the cinematic 757 00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.360 quality and with animation three D animation two, which is 758 00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:57.039 very interesting for the next generation too. So it's making 759 00:50:57.079 --> 00:50:59.199 it relevant and accessible. 760 00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:05.159 Relevant because it's immortal and accessible because most people are 761 00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.519 so you know, let's go to the movies. Yeah, fantastic. 762 00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:11.000 So the thing goes out and it's a movie, right, 763 00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:14.719 but it's like a movie with a live soundtrack. 764 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:18.320 Yes, And the story is very relatable because if you 765 00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:20.199 just say, oh, it's like Lord of the Rings or 766 00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:24.079 you know, they would think, oh, it's got those mythical 767 00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:28.039 characters all. You know, they don't realize that opera has 768 00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.880 so many amazing stories behind it. 769 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:34.840 It's timeless time timeless. So that would be my dream 770 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:37.119 that we tore it all over the world and with 771 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:43.280 the magic of AI. You know, we have almost instant translations. 772 00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:46.440 So I've got an Italian version, now I've got a 773 00:51:46.519 --> 00:51:50.400 German version, an English version, and Amandain version. We could 774 00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:53.119 do it in any language. So we go to say, 775 00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.239 I don't know, China or Korea. Let's say we could 776 00:51:56.239 --> 00:52:00.679 do the Korean version and the images all the same. 777 00:52:00.840 --> 00:52:03.920 The music's the same, but you have three singers singing 778 00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:08.119 in Korean and the story is told by an actor 779 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.519 in Korean. Either pre recorded, but I prefer the more 780 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.480 live the better, because you get you've got to have 781 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.119 that live otherwise it would be so it'll be okay. 782 00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:22.400 I mean, we could sell it to Netflix and then 783 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:26.880 streams it. You know, we've recorded it as well. But 784 00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:31.480 I really am a fervent believer in the live experience. 785 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:34.519 Especially now we're becoming more and more AI based. I 786 00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:39.599 think we're really treasuring those human moments and the human 787 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:46.400 connection and the ability to differentiate ourselves from AI what's 788 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.440 becoming more and more think. 789 00:52:48.920 -->

00:52:54.239 That's absolutely true because at heart, we're not yet robotoids 790 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:58.239 or whatever it is, you know, humanoids. We're still you know, 791 00:52:58.480 --> 00:53:01.440 carry within us that DNA of thousands. 792 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:06.960 And thousands of soul is. Yeah. Well, so any last 793 00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:10.920 words or advice to our next generation of musicians or 794 00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.280 the music industry. How would you like to end up 795 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:15.719 our wonderful conversation today. 796 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:22.239 Well, it's a bit like a bug. I'm not saying 797 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.519 that opera will appeal to every single person anymore than 798 00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:31.119 table tennis does or you know, elite whatever, but it 799 00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:34.920 has the potential too, And music has the potential to okay, 800 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:39.360 and there will always be people who listen and it's 801 00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:44.840 really creates in them a feeling of something not every day. 802 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:46.599 You know, it makes something. 803 00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:49.480 It lifts them, and that's what I say. And then 804 00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.800 they get the bug, you know, and then they say, okay, 805 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:56.679 well I love that oprovide their ideal or whatever. Let's 806 00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:00.679 listen to some other operas. Let's call get some friends 807 00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.559 around and have a bit of an thing. Let's club together, 808 00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:08.440 and we'll go and we'll see that. Let's say at Bendigo, 809 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:11.199 you know, you live at Bendigo, they have maybe an 810 00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:14.639 opera company coming through, you know, let's go and see that, 811 00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:18.440 or opera in a tent or somewhere, or we go 812 00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:21.760 to the movie theater, the Palace theater or whatever it 813 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:25.119 happens to be, and we'll see the Metropolitan Opera and 814 00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:27.960 will there and it will sort of grow. And the 815 00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:32.320 good thing about opera is because it's so diverse, is 816 00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:35.840 that you can learn more and more. You learn about history, 817 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:40.119 you learn about language, learn culture. It's not just the 818 00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:41.320 same old stories. 819 00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:44.639 Yeah, and you don't have to love every opera. It's 820 00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:47.039 so diverse. You may have your favorites and ones that 821 00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:50.119 you actually don't like, but it's good to get into 822 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.840 that the whole sphere so that you can start tasting 823 00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:00.639 different different things and just getting an experience so that 824 00:55:00.760

--> 00:55:03.159 you get to know it better. So I think our 825 00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:10.679 job is to inform and educate and promote the wonderful 826 00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:11.599 world of opera. 827 00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:16.639 And I've done workshops where children write their own operas. 828 00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:20.639 Oh that's the best, because then they realize what it's 829 00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:21.079 all about. 830 00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:22.800 Yes, they've all got a story to tell them. 831 00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:26.519 They put a story to tell. Children are very talented 832 00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:29.199 offer and a very good improvisers. And I've worked even 833 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:34.599 with people who are in juvenile detainees in juvenile justice. 834 00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:41.599 And they were two shows and it's quite interesting. The 835 00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:45.400 second show was based on a Wagner opera. We gave 836 00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:52.119 them three stories, you know, not librettas, but scenarios from 837 00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:56.280 established operas, and one was The Magic Flute actually, and 838 00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:59.800 the other was Something and the other was Wagner's last opera, Pus, 839 00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:04.079 which is a sort of a mystic religious type story. 840 00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:08.639 They chose passive Wow, and then they rewrote it. It 841 00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:13.880 was called Puzzle in the Outback, Yeah Australian, And they 842 00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:16.760 completely wrote their own music to it. You know, I 843 00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:19.880 showed them some of Wagner's tunes and everything, but it 844 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.280 was basically rap because we're talking about two thousand and 845 00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:25.880 five and rap was the big thing. 846 00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:29.400 Yes, could become a thing. 847 00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:35.199 And they performed it in the center. You know, it 848 00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:38.360 was very controlled, etc. And you know what came to 849 00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:42.920 me because it's interesting. They all had a fairly good 850 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:47.480 mother image in a psyche, but the father image was 851 00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:51.840 either distorted or it was absent. And the whole thing 852 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:56.719 about Percival is this young lad. The hero has no father, 853 00:56:57.639 --> 00:57:00.920 and he finds the surrogate fathers in the Brotherhood of 854 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.199 the Nights, but he has to come to terms with that, 855 00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:08.000 and then in the end he becomes sort of like 856 00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:11.960 a saintly figure, becomes a healer and everything. 857 00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:16.280 And projects sounds sotic for them. 858 00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:20.960 And so much more. 859 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:24.000 Thank you so much, Thank you so much for your time. 860 00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:26.400 I think you have to get you training back to 861 00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:27.920 Malmsbury now, is that right? 862 00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:28.639 Absolutely? 863 00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:31.800 Thank you so much for your time and for your stories. 864 00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:36.719 You've immersed me. I can't wait for the next opera production. 865 00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:43.159 Maybe it's going to be Brunnhilder Yea. Thank you, Thank you. 866 00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.400 For listening to the Hello Music Show podcast. If you 867 00:57:46.519 --> 00:57:49.679 have any topics you'd like us to explore, please message 868 00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:54.159 us at www dot Hello music dot com dot Aye 869 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:58.079 don't forget to follow us on Twitter at Hello Music TV, 870 00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:03.519 Instagram at hell Hello Music Studios, and Facebook Hello Music 871 00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:04.159 Studios